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Speaker 1: Two days before our last episode came out, Kelly pointed

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Speaker 1: out there was a different case number on her littering

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Speaker 1: case court docket, and the sentence of forty eight hours

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Speaker 1: shock jail time and two years probation, which you heard

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Speaker 1: her say never happened, was in fact also incorrect. What

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Speaker 1: will Byron's legal team have to say about this?

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Speaker 2: What are your concerns? I mean I could just hear

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Speaker 2: it in your voice. Yeah, I mean I'm upset. I've

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Speaker 2: been up all night.

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Speaker 1: Is this alleged clerical error easily explained? Will it change

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Speaker 1: how Kelly's credibility is now viewed? And what a fact,

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Speaker 1: if any, will this have on Byron's legal case. I'm

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Speaker 1: Leah Rothman. This is The Real Killer, Episode fifteen the docket.

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Speaker 1: Right after Kelly and I speak that Tuesday night about

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Speaker 1: this error on her court docket, I message Byron's attorney,

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Speaker 1: Brian Russell to see if he can get the rest

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Speaker 1: of the team together to talk the next morning. I

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Speaker 1: don't share with Brian exactly why I'm asking for this

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Speaker 1: last minute interview, but he comes back and says yes,

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Speaker 1: he and the team will be available. So the next

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Speaker 1: morning at eleven am my time, Brian, Nicole Gordon, Sean O'Brien,

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Speaker 1: Quin O'Brien, and I all log into Zoom for what

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Speaker 1: will be a very interesting conversation about Kelly's court docket

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Speaker 1: and what can and cannot be proven?

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Speaker 2: Can everyone hear me?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Yeah yet.

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Speaker 1: So thank you for getting together this quickly, because I

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Speaker 1: reached out to Brian last night late last night asking

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Speaker 1: for us to all get together. Kelly texted me yesterday

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Speaker 1: and sent me screen grabs from her littering charge and

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay, great, and she was like, see,

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Speaker 1: it's just a fine.

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Speaker 2: I just had to pay a fine. And I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: let me send you what I have.

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Speaker 1: It says you did forty eight hours of shock, jail

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Speaker 1: time and two years probation. Within minutes, she wrote me

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Speaker 1: back angrily pointed out that there is another case number

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Speaker 1: next to that sentence on the docket, and at first

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Speaker 1: I didn't see it. She was like, that's not my

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Speaker 1: case number, and I was like, I don't see what

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Speaker 1: you're seeing and she's basically like, you dummy, it's right there.

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Speaker 1: And so I looked up that case number and it's

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Speaker 1: a guy named Brendan.

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Speaker 2: I won't use his last name who in nineteen.

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Speaker 1: Ninety nine got in trouble for allegedly passing some bad checks.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't say anything about shock jail time, but under

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Speaker 1: his sentence or program info, it says that he had

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Speaker 1: unsupervised probation for seven hundred and thirty one days, So

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Speaker 1: that's two years.

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Speaker 4: In a day.

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Speaker 1: Kelly, as you heard in the last episode, said I

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Speaker 1: didn't go to jail. I didn't I wasn't on probation.

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Speaker 1: So how do you explain this?

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Speaker 4: Kelly's word is mud. Frankly, I don't care what Kelly

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Speaker 4: has to say about anything.

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Speaker 3: That's Brian Russell.

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Speaker 4: Unless there's some independent corroboration. Her word alone doesn't do anything.

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Speaker 4: The point is she's still at a minimum, let's say,

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Speaker 4: if even if it was just a fine, right, she

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Speaker 4: was still convicted of a Class amis demeanor, which is

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Speaker 4: what the probation is irrelevant to that fact that both

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Speaker 4: her and the prosecutor's office had a duty to tell

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Speaker 4: Byron that she was convicted of a Class A misdemeanor

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Speaker 4: during all of this, right during all of their investigation

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Speaker 4: and everything like that. So the fact that sorry, not

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Speaker 4: the fact her allegation that she didn't actually do any

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Speaker 4: jail time, which I still believed to be false. That

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Speaker 4: is irrelevant to this issue. That she was still convicted

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Speaker 4: of a Class A misdemeanor, and that this all happened

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Speaker 4: while she was quote unquote cooperating with the Jackson County

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Speaker 4: prosecutor right she had an incentive. She had an active

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Speaker 4: warrant out for her arrest. She admitted to you that

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Speaker 4: she was picked up on that warrant by the Least

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Speaker 4: Summit Police Department, which was that was new information for us,

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Speaker 4: because we never knew where she was picked up on warrant.

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Speaker 4: We just knew that she was picked up one more so,

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Speaker 4: as far as what our response is to that is,

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Speaker 4: it's great. That's great. Thank you for telling us and

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Speaker 4: confirming that you were convicted of a Class A misdemeanor,

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Speaker 4: that you lied about it to Byron's defense counsel when

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Speaker 4: he asked if you had ever been convicted of a

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Speaker 4: felony or misdemeanor in state or federal court, and that

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Speaker 4: the prosecutor's office should have known about it, probably did

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Speaker 4: know about it and didn't do their job and fulfill

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Speaker 4: their duty to disclose that to Byron and his defense.

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Speaker 3: Team, here's Sean O'Brien.

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Speaker 5: You know, we had found the clerical error that they

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Speaker 5: had linked some unrelated person's case to her case net.

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Speaker 5: But that was a clerical error. Apparently doesn't negate any

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Speaker 5: of the other stuff. That's not his shock time, that's

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Speaker 5: not his judgment.

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Speaker 4: We know it's a.

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Speaker 1: Clerical error because I reached out to Christopher Class who's

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Speaker 1: the sheriff of Cooper County, and he did confirm that

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Speaker 1: she did two days of shock time. Okay, so Nicole,

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Speaker 1: and glad you brought that up, because I have your

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Speaker 1: email that you sent me and.

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Speaker 2: He does not He does not do that. I'll read

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Speaker 2: it to you, you said.

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Speaker 1: The email says, we've received your Sunshine Law requests for

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Speaker 1: information regarding detention records for Kelly Moffatt. Looking up information

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Speaker 1: on Moffitt, it was found through court records that she

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Speaker 1: was sentenced to two days jail time back on April third,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one, on a littering case. On a

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Speaker 1: littering case, those records have since been destroyed in accordance

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Speaker 1: with our retention schedule. We show no other incarceration for Moffitt,

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Speaker 1: and our records. If you have any further questions, please

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Speaker 1: feel free to contact the sheriff's office. So they're basically saying,

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Speaker 1: we don't have any records that she was detained. We

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Speaker 1: are looking at the court records, which seemed to be erroneous,

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Speaker 1: and that's what they're referencing. They don't say that she

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Speaker 1: spent any time there.

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Speaker 5: Well, in other words, she owes Boone County two days

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Speaker 5: of shock time. Is what that means. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 5: we've looked at you know, three lawyers have looked this over.

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Speaker 5: She owes Boone County two day shock time. And what

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Speaker 5: the sheriff is saying, we don't have the jail records,

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Speaker 5: but the court order to do them. She probably did them,

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Speaker 5: and if she did them, their records are destroyed. That's

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Speaker 5: what that means.

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Speaker 4: Another component of this is Kelly claims that she was

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Speaker 4: never arrested. Well, we have a record from the Missouri

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Speaker 4: State Highway Patrol from April fifteenth of two thousand that

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Speaker 4: says that she was arrested.

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Speaker 5: This is the thing you have to understand about dealing

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Speaker 5: with Kelly. She's the kind of liar who will tell

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Speaker 5: a lie to cover a lie, to cover a lie,

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Speaker 5: and she demonstrated that to you in your last episode

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Speaker 5: that we listened. We heard that several times.

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Speaker 1: And with all due respect, I just can't look at

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Speaker 1: this and say definitively that she's tolling a lie.

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Speaker 6: Then you should look at other records that are going

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Speaker 6: to corroborate that date.

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Speaker 1: Let me finish, because but you guys, where are they?

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Speaker 1: Where are the records that corroborate that she actually went

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Speaker 1: to jail or I mean, or was even sentenced to it.

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Speaker 1: All I'm saying is, if we look at this, she

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Speaker 1: seemed very confused about the two days, forty eight hours

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Speaker 1: of shock, jail time, and the two years probation. She

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Speaker 1: also said when she was asked in her deposition, you

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Speaker 1: know about if she had been in trouble with the law,

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Speaker 1: she didn't really consider a littering charge in a fine

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Speaker 1: that big of a deal. But what about pick a

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Speaker 1: warrant and extra died it to a different county?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, why would she be extradited to a different county

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Speaker 6: if there wasn't a big deal.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they issued a warrant for her arrest, a bench warrant,

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Speaker 4: and she was arrested on that bench warrant. And here

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Speaker 4: she is saying that to be extradited. For hold On

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Speaker 4: to be extradited from Jackson County to Cooper County would

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Speaker 4: have taken more than a day or two. She was

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Speaker 4: in jail somewhat. Maybe she wasn't in jail in Cooper County.

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Speaker 4: Maybe the judge in Cooper County said, oh, you said

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Speaker 4: in the Jackson County jail, or in the least summit

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Speaker 4: jail for two days while you were waiting to get

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Speaker 4: extradited here to plead guilty to this fine, we're going

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Speaker 4: to credit you for that two days. But we don't

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Speaker 4: know this. But you don't know And why don't we

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Speaker 4: know it, Leah, We don't know it because the Jackson

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Speaker 4: County Prosecutor's office hid it. They did not disclose they

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Speaker 4: had Kelly was a minor on this charge too, and

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Speaker 4: so they knew about this. There's no reason they shouldn't

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Speaker 4: have known about this, and they failed to disclose it.

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Speaker 4: And it wasn't until twenty years later that we're finding it,

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Speaker 4: and all the records have been destroyed, and so we're

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Speaker 4: trying to piece together what happened as best we can.

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Speaker 4: But as far as what Kelly has to say about it,

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Speaker 4: or what her memory, says, it's funny that she you know,

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Speaker 4: it's funny the things that she remembers so is vividly,

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Speaker 4: and then the things she has no memory of or

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Speaker 4: she's not sure about. And so, as far as for

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Speaker 4: our purposes and for Byron's purposes, all that really matters

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Speaker 4: is that she was convicted of a class amiss.

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Speaker 5: To mean, and she responded to a question about it

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Speaker 5: by saying, I've never even been in trouble with the police.

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Speaker 5: She told you she was taken in custody on a warrant.

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Speaker 4: Right, If that's not trouble with them, I think we

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Speaker 4: would all remember getting arrested and picked up on a

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Speaker 4: warrant and having to sit in jail and wait to

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Speaker 4: get transferred to another county and to use her word.

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Speaker 2: Extradited, I hear you.

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Speaker 1: I mean, just so you know, I was up all

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Speaker 1: night like this does not sit well with me. This

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Speaker 1: is troubling to me. It's troubling because I didn't pick

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Speaker 1: up on there being another case number as many times

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Speaker 1: as I've looked at this docket.

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Speaker 2: The fact that I didn't pick up on that, and.

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Speaker 1: Also a large part of the case, or you know,

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Speaker 1: a large part of the case is that Kelly is

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Speaker 1: a drug addicted liar that was in bigger trouble and

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Speaker 1: flipped on Byron in order to get out of the

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Speaker 1: bigger trouble.

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Speaker 2: We absolutely don't know that to be the fact.

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Speaker 1: We don't know that she was actually sentenced to that

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Speaker 1: this is actually her sentence. If that case number that's

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Speaker 1: on there is wrong, we don't know that the sentence

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Speaker 1: on there is wrong. Because stay with me for one second.

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Speaker 1: On another page of these docket records, the page that

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Speaker 1: talks about her sentence, stand by yeah, On the page

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Speaker 1: that talks about charges and sentence. Under sentence, it says fine, fine,

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Speaker 1: fourteen dollars and ninety five cents. So where is where

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Speaker 1: is the sentence of forty eight hours shock, jail time

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Speaker 1: in two years probation.

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Speaker 2: I can hold it up.

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Speaker 4: I can't not. Yeah, I'm looking at it on line

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Speaker 4: right now.

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Speaker 3: Here's Quinn O'Brien.

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Speaker 6: She still lied, And I mean, we keep forgetting that

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Speaker 6: a medical examiner has said that her version of events

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Speaker 6: is totally impossible, that it's a Hollywood fiction. We're forgetting that.

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Speaker 6: Don Rand and other gas station attendants told people at

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Speaker 6: one time or another that they saw someone get out

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Speaker 6: of a car and go use a payphone. We're forgetting that.

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Speaker 6: Bob told the Fishers that he saw Anastasia later that

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Speaker 6: night and tried to get her to get in the car.

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Speaker 6: There's just so much out there that shows that Kelly's

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Speaker 6: story is false. That you know, these these little things

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Speaker 6: are I mean, at what point are we just? I mean,

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Speaker 6: you're asking us to prove that there was a clerical

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Speaker 6: error rather than you know, have Kelly prove that she

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Speaker 6: wasn't in prison, Make her prove that she wasn't in jail.

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Speaker 6: Have her prove that. Show ask her where she was,

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Speaker 6: what she was doing, If she wasn't doing shocked time,

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Speaker 6: what was she doing, where was she made?

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Speaker 1: It's not up to her to prove it. It's up

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Speaker 1: to you, guys to prove it. Right and again I

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Speaker 1: say this with all due respect, but it's up to you.

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Speaker 1: Guys are making the allegations. It's up to you to

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Speaker 1: prove it, not to Kelly. I mean, Kelly's just I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you what she said. This is what you guys

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Speaker 1: have done, have gone after her credibility left and right.

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Speaker 1: She says, I have not told a lie, and I

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Speaker 1: can hear your laughter about to come in, but she says,

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Speaker 1: I've not told a lie since I've come forward, and

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Speaker 1: this is an example of the stuff that has been

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Speaker 1: used against her to discredit her. And so it's not

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Speaker 1: her job to prove this. It's your job if you

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Speaker 1: make the allegation.

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Speaker 6: Bia, It's not your job to give her a parachute

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Speaker 6: out of these things either, Like when she started to

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Speaker 6: say that if she and Byron weren't interrogated together, that

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Speaker 6: she might have gone ahead and admitted or hum forward,

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Speaker 6: not admitted. If she and Byron hadn't been interrogated together,

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Speaker 6: then she would have talked about seeing the death. You

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Speaker 6: stepped in and said, well, the records say that you

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Speaker 6: weren't interrogated together, and she said, oh, oh, oh, you're right.

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Speaker 6: So she gets a parachute out of her lies.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think that's a parachute.

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Speaker 1: I think I was taking her to task, like I

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Speaker 1: was pointing out that what she said was untrue. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that's a parachute I was giving her.

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Speaker 6: I would have let her go. I would have asked

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Speaker 6: her so in that interrogation together, what happened?

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Speaker 1: Okay, but this isn't about me, right, now I've already

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Speaker 1: I'm like admitting that I've messed up by not even

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Speaker 1: recognizing that there was, you know, a different case number

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Speaker 1: next to the sentence that differed from the case number

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Speaker 1: on the upper left hand corner or the upper you know,

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Speaker 1: on the.

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Speaker 2: Top of the page.

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Speaker 1: Like I should have should have I should have figured

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Speaker 1: this out a long time ago and asked you guys

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Speaker 1: a long time ago about this.

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Speaker 6: So, yeah, we've known about it for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Nobody said anything. Nobody, nobody has said anything. So everyone,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've been moving forward as if she did

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Speaker 1: time in jail and was on probation. I don't. Well, again,

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Speaker 1: there's no proof of that right now, there is no

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Speaker 1: proof of that. If you have proof, then please what

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Speaker 1: sure we do we have proof of that? Where's the

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Speaker 1: proof that she was in jail?

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Speaker 4: Here, let me show you that she was in jail.

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Speaker 4: She admitted to it. What are you talking about? She

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Speaker 4: just admitted to it. She said she was arrested in

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Speaker 4: least summit.

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Speaker 2: But she didn't. I'm talking about getting sentenced.

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Speaker 1: So she pled guilty and that her sentence is supposed

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Speaker 1: to be forty eight hours in jail in two years probation.

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Speaker 1: Where is the proof that that actually was the case.

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Speaker 1: And here's another question, and I actually don't know this answer.

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Speaker 1: I think I know the answer, but I'm going to

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Speaker 1: ask you, if you're on probation, do you get a

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Speaker 1: probation officer.

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Speaker 4: We tried to find her probation officer and all of that.

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Speaker 4: But here's the thing. She was a juvenile on this thing.

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Speaker 4: So those are all closed records. We can't get it

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Speaker 4: that until we file the havienes.

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Speaker 2: But you don't know that they're as a probation officer.

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Speaker 4: Correct, Yeah, I don't know that she had a probation officer.

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Speaker 4: And the other thing that we have looked into was

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Speaker 4: she was a Kansas resident at the time, but on

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Speaker 4: Missouri probation. So there's a weird It's like, okay, well,

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Speaker 4: would she have gotten a Kansas probation officer? You know,

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Speaker 4: would that have been put over there to do that?

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Speaker 4: And you know, we still believe that she was put

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Speaker 4: on probation, which would totally make sense because when all

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Speaker 4: of this happens, she's supposed to be quote unquote cooperating

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Speaker 4: with the Jackson County Prosecutor's office. Right in December of

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Speaker 4: two thousand, they put this tape recorder in the Moffit residence.

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Speaker 4: Right months go by, no phone calls with Byron, no

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Speaker 4: no reported attempts of phone calls with Byron. Kelly seems

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Speaker 4: to disappear because there's literally no reports. Then she gets

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Speaker 4: picked up on this warrant, pleads guilty. We still believe,

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Speaker 4: sentenced to two days shock time with probation. But let's

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Speaker 4: say she's not. Let's say she's just convicted of a

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Speaker 4: Class A misdemeanor. The reason it makes sense for her

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Speaker 4: to be sentenced to two years probation is so the

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Speaker 4: prosecutors have control over her during the pendency of the

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Speaker 4: rest of their investigation and prosecution into Byron. Right so,

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Speaker 4: and then it's two months after this guilty plead that

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Speaker 4: she finally gets Byron on the phone. But I wanted

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Speaker 4: to point out too, and I tried to share my screen,

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Speaker 4: but I can't. I can email you this document I

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Speaker 4: have because we took screenshots of this back when we

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Speaker 4: found it, and I'm looking at the screen shot of

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Speaker 4: it now, not the screenshot. I'm looking at the screen

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Speaker 4: on case net right now, and it looks like it

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Speaker 4: has been altered from when we first found it and

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Speaker 4: gathered it because it used to say on April third,

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Speaker 4: two thousand and one, judgment entered SEES which stands for

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Speaker 4: suspended execution of sentence thirty days, can secut with case number,

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Speaker 4: consecutive with case number, you know, and then that's the

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Speaker 4: case number we're talking about, which is related to somebody

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Speaker 4: different forty eight hours shot time probation two years right now,

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Speaker 4: and then under that entry it says guiltyply. Now on

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Speaker 4: live on case Net it just says April third, two

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Speaker 4: thousand and one, guiltyply. It doesn't have judgment entered on

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Speaker 4: that docket report like it used to. So something somebody

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Speaker 4: got on there and changed something and I don't know

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Speaker 4: why that happened, and I don't know who did that,

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Speaker 4: but that's new. That is also new information for us.

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Speaker 3: This is true. There are two dockets.

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Speaker 1: The one Cooper County sent me on April sixteenth, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four. In the middle of the page, under sentence

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Speaker 1: it says fine. Then under total case fine imposed it

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Speaker 1: says fourteen dollars and ninety five cents. In the docket

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Speaker 1: Byron's legal team sent me, which they pulled on October two,

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Speaker 1: twelfth twenty twenty one. In the middle of the page,

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Speaker 1: it says Kelly was sentenced to a fine of fourteen

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Speaker 1: dollars and ninety five cents, just like the one Cooper

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Speaker 1: County sent me, but lowered down on that page, in

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Speaker 1: the itemized list of events that happened in the case

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Speaker 1: on April third, two thousand and one, there is that

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Speaker 1: other person's case number, and next to it is the

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Speaker 1: sentence of forty eight hours shock jail time and two

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Speaker 1: years probation.

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Speaker 3: So what the hell which sentence is the real one?

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Speaker 1: When was the forty eight hours shock jail time two

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Speaker 1: years probation erased from the docket? It had to have

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Speaker 1: been some time between October of twenty twenty one and

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Speaker 1: April of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 3: Who did it and why? By the way, I.

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Speaker 1: Had asked Byron's legal team about these two different court

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Speaker 1: dockets before, because one had the sentence forty eight hours

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Speaker 1: shock jail time and two years probation and the other

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Speaker 1: one didn't have it. They said it was because there

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Speaker 1: was a difference between what information a lawyer can access

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Speaker 1: on case net, Missouri's legal case database and what the

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Speaker 1: general public can. Not sure if that's what happened or

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Speaker 1: if it's something else. In an attempt to get some

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Speaker 1: clarity on Kelly's two different court dockets and whether or

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Speaker 1: not she was ever sentenced to forty eight hours in

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Speaker 1: jail and two years probation, I email the Jackson County

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Speaker 1: Prosecutor's office to see if they will answer my questions

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Speaker 1: at least about this. Remember, months ago, I was told

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Speaker 1: that it wouldn't be appropriate for Prosecutor Teresa Crayon to

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Speaker 1: speak until all litigation in this case is complete. When

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Speaker 1: the prosecutor's office responds, they say the same thing, They

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Speaker 1: can't comment until all litigation is complete on this matter

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Speaker 1: Nicole again, and the state was able to find Byron's

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Speaker 1: records in a different county, They did a background check

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Speaker 1: on him, brought it to trial. Why didn't you need

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Speaker 1: to tell me they didn't do that with Kelly and

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Speaker 1: brought it to trial. And so there is the presumption

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Speaker 1: of this wasn't disclosed and.

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Speaker 2: Why I mean, and I think that we're.

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Speaker 1: Allowed to hypothesize of all the reasons that someone would

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Speaker 1: in Kelly's position would implicate.

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Speaker 4: Somebody else in a murder.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we're allowed to do that, but Brian's right.

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Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is is that they didn't

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Speaker 1: disclose it and they had a duty to right.

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Speaker 4: And we have court records that say that she was

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Speaker 4: on shot time, two days of shot time with a

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Speaker 4: thirty day backup in two years probation. That's what the

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Speaker 4: records we have say. She might say that that's not

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Speaker 4: true and that's not what happened, and that's fine, you

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Speaker 4: know what. That's what this process is for. And maybe

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Speaker 4: we find out that she wasn't sentenced to two days

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Speaker 4: of shock time, but at a minimum, she was still

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Speaker 4: convicted of a class A mystery, right, and that's what

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Speaker 4: they had a duty to disclose.

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Speaker 2: So I think there are two issues, right.

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Speaker 1: I think it's I mean, you have been putting forth

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Speaker 1: the theory that she got into this bigger trouble, and

398
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Speaker 1: you know, Kelly is a drug addicted liar and she,

399
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Speaker 1: you know, was in this bigger trouble and that's why

400
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 1: she flipped and worked with prosecutors. That doesn't seem as

401
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Speaker 1: plausible as it did before.

402
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Speaker 6: I think that's another statement of the theory though, And

403
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Speaker 6: can I can I correct the theory really quick that

404
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Speaker 6: she Our theory is that this case connected her to

405
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Speaker 6: the prosecution, that she could have been in much more

406
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Speaker 6: trouble if she hadn't worked with prosecutors to get out

407
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Speaker 6: of it.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back for one second and look at the timeline.

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Speaker 1: Kelly was arrested in April of two thousand on this

410
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Speaker 1: littering charge. She didn't up for her arraignment in June

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Speaker 1: of two thousand, That's when the warrant was issued three

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Speaker 1: months later in September of two thousand. Kelly was basically

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Speaker 1: made to come forward when her drug counselor went to

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Speaker 1: the authorities. So when was Kelly allegedly incentivized to work

415
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Speaker 1: with prosecutors. Was it between when she got the littering

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Speaker 1: charge and when she came forward, so between April and September?

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Speaker 1: Or was it between when she came forward and when

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Speaker 1: she was picked up on the warrant, so between September

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Speaker 1: and the following April. I went back and found a

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Speaker 1: report Kilgore wrote on September twentieth, two thousand, the day

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Speaker 1: after Kelly came forward. Kilgore wrote quote, Apparently Ms Moffatt

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Speaker 1: offered to tape record a conversation with Byron Case and

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Speaker 1: try to get him to admit to the shooting. Mister

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Speaker 1: Beard and Ms McGowan were in favor of attempting the recording,

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Speaker 1: So it seems it was Kelly's idea to try and

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00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: record Byron confessing, and this happened around the time she

427
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Speaker 1: came forward. What would be the point in a quid

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Speaker 1: pro quo scenario with prosecutors. Was it to point the

429
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: finger at Byron because it seems she had already done that,

430
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Speaker 1: or was it to finally get Byron on the phone

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Speaker 1: and again, remember it was her idea to do that.

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Speaker 6: Back to Quinn, I still don't know if that's the

433
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 6: case because a lot of those records are going to

434
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Speaker 6: be confidential because she's a juvenile, and some of these

435
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 6: records are you going to be things that we can't

436
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 6: get until the behavior is proceeding. But she was on

437
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 6: the prosecution's radar. She's an addict, and this is the

438
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 6: case that you know, we know about. We're not saying

439
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 6: that she did this to how to put this? Somebody

440
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 6: helped me out, your dad, you know what I want?

441
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 5: Yeah. The point is when somebody is addicted, the prospect

442
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 5: of one night in jail is terrifying because that means

443
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 5: withdrawal that means cold Turkey, and so that's incentive for

444
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 5: her to cooperate with the police. But why she decided

445
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 5: to implicate Byron is a much much different, more complex

446
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 5: thing than what you've described. I think that she lied

447
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 5: multiple times to multiple people about why she's an addict,

448
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 5: why she has this drug problem. She says, because I

449
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 5: saw Anastasia murdered, and then she says, because I saw

450
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 5: Justin murder Anastasia, and then she changes that to Byron.

451
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 5: So she tells this lie because it's convenient at the

452
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 5: moment at the time. And then when she finally tells

453
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 5: a therapist and a therapist says, you go to the

454
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 5: police or I will. Now suddenly the lie is locked in,

455
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 5: and she doesn't have a choice but to go through

456
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 5: with the lie that she's been telling. And so if

457
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 5: she's under stress, it's a stress of being locked into

458
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 5: a lie that she now can't get out of. And

459
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 5: so she ends up going to a lawyer, going to

460
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 5: the prosecution. And so why the delay of months and

461
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 5: months and months between her cooperation decision and getting Byron

462
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:39,479
Speaker 5: on the phone to you know, try to trap him

463
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 5: into saying something incriminating.

464
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: That's not how Kelly sees it. Kelly mentioned in the

465
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: last episode that she had been accused of stalking Byron.

466
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: Kelly said, well, the police were the ones who gave

467
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: her his number, So maybe Kelly had tried calling Byron

468
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: before that June fifth call back to Sean.

469
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 5: She doesn't want to do it, but I think this

470
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 5: case and the prospect of going to jail because she

471
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 5: has that warrant pending, I think that is what you know,

472
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 5: motivated her finally to follow through with the phone call

473
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 5: to Byron. And now you know she's in over her head.

474
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 5: She can't back out of this. She can't. There's no

475
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 5: way to do it.

476
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 4: Another thing to point out Leah is that in that

477
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 4: report that Sergeant Kilgore wrote from December of two thousand,

478
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 4: when he installs the tape recorder, the last thing he

479
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 4: writes is assistant prosecutor Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Amy McGowan told

480
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 4: me to give her phone number and her pager number,

481
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 4: and so that so Kelly has the prosecutor, the Jackson

482
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 4: County Prosecutor, one of the top deputies in Jackson County

483
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 4: prosecutor's contact info and then she gets picked up in

484
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 4: Jackson County on this warrant. Who is she going to

485
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 4: maybe call to get some help out of that situation?

486
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 4: You know, we believe that there's it's very plausible that

487
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 4: she called Amy McGowan and said, I'm in trouble and

488
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 4: I need help, and they said, okay, well we can

489
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 4: help you with this. But here's what you're going to

490
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 4: need to start playing ballbat her with us, right.

491
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: But but let me just let me jump in real quick.

492
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 1: We don't know that to be true, and now we

493
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: don't know. We know one there's another thing we don't

494
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: know to be true, and that's that she actually was

495
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: sentenced to forty eight hours of shockjail time in two

496
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 1: years probation.

497
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 4: That is, we don't know. We don't know what that is.

498
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 4: So we don't know that.

499
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 2: We don't actually know that there was.

500
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 4: Any bigger's We don't have to prove that, I know, but.

501
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: We but we've put that forth like we have said

502
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: that in the podcast. You guys have talked about that

503
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: that you you allege that there was some bigger trouble

504
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: that she was in that she had to get out of.

505
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: And I don't think that that is have been I

506
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: don't think that's been proven. I don't think that even

507
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: that her sentence, that sentence of forty eight hours of

508
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: shockjail time in two years probation has been proven. And

509
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: the thing I want to say in my email to

510
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: the Prosecutor's office, I also ask about this allegation that

511
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: after Kelly was picked up on the warrant, she called

512
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: Amy McGowan, who helped her in exchange for Kelly getting

513
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: Byron on the phone in a recorded confession.

514
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 3: But here's another question.

515
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: If Amy McGowan intervened, and that is a mighty big if,

516
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: why would that forty eight hours of shot, jail time

517
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: and two years probation ever be entered into the docket.

518
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: If something sneaky and nefarius went on, one would imagine

519
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: there would be enormous attention given to covering all tracks.

520
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 3: Okay, back to our interview, and then one.

521
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: Other thing I want to say, Sean, like, yes, Kelly

522
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: came forward and first said to her dad Byron, then

523
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: to the counselor said justin. It was her mom who

524
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: actually said no, no, no, Kelly told your dad. It

525
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: was Byron. It was her mom who called her out

526
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: and said, no, you tell her you know this is

527
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: what you told your dad. So yes, she flip flops,

528
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: but her mom makes her change her story back to Byron.

529
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: It wasn't like she did it on her own. Okay, Sorry,

530
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: what were you going to say.

531
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 4: Brian in response to that, Well, I don't know. I mean,

532
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 4: obviously the lies of Kelly's lies. We all have different theories, right.

533
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 4: I think that she was just a troubled kid trying

534
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 4: to get either back in with her parents and that's

535
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 4: what started this ball rolling, or that this was just

536
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 4: a lie that spun out of control.

537
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: Right.

538
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 4: She her story, everything she says, there's inconsistencies, not just

539
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 4: across statements after she comes forward, but even within single

540
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 4: interviews there's inconsistencies. Even with what she was saying to you.

541
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 4: There's inconsistencies right all this time. Oh, she just wanted

542
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 4: to come forward. If only somebody had just been mean

543
00:30:58,240 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 4: to me in one of these interviews, I would have

544
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 4: told you truth. But then she says I wanted to

545
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 4: come forward. But that's not even then she didn't come forward.

546
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: They seemed to after she's in rehab, detoxing, and who knows,

547
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 4: we don't even know how long she was in rehab

548
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 4: before this whole maggy thing allegedly happened. But she says that, well,

549
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 4: I tried to say that it was justin or that

550
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 4: it was some other thing, and then her mom drags

551
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 4: out another lie out of her. I don't know it

552
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 4: just none of it makes sense. Did she want to

553
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 4: come forward or did she not come because at no

554
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 4: point in this does she do anything voluntarily.

555
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 6: No, And I still think that to call her, I mean,

556
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 6: she said that we characterized her as a drug kingpin,

557
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 6: and I don't recall ever even saying anything like that.

558
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 6: I mean, that's that's not the theory that she was

559
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 6: in trouble for something bigger. We've known for a long

560
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 6: time that it was a littering charge, and that's all

561
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 6: it has to be, is a littering charge. She doesn't

562
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 6: have to have, you know, drugs on her or be

563
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 6: a And that's not our theory. Our theory is that

564
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,719
Speaker 6: she continues to use and she's connected to the prosecution.

565
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 6: Now she's on probation and she gets arrested, and I

566
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 6: don't believe that she was arrested just for having a

567
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 6: headlight out. I don't believe that. I would love to

568
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 6: get those records and we're actually trying to.

569
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 4: Tell where's her, where's her proof that she was that

570
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 4: she was arrested for a broken headline?

571
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't. I don't believe that for a second.

572
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 6: I think that she's on probation and she gets arrested

573
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 6: for drugs and she realizes that she's going to have

574
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 6: to do backup time, and then the prosecutor steps in

575
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 6: to help her out. I still think that that's the case,

576
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 6: and I have nothing, except for killing off its word

577
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 6: that that's not the case.

578
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 2: I mean, hold on one second.

579
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: Sorry to trumpt you, but to be fair, Quinn, you

580
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: guys did say that you believed that she might have

581
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: been involved in some bigger drug thing.

582
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 2: I mean, it's in the podcast. We did talk about that, so.

583
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 6: You know we speculated that it could have been the case.

584
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 2: Right, So I'm just saying you said, that's not what

585
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: we all.

586
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 4: What we ever thought, and it might have been related

587
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 4: to drugs, but not or something.

588
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 6: When I say bigger drug thing, that's not I mean,

589
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 6: she used the word getting caught. Sorry, I know she.

590
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: Used you she used the working pin. You've never used

591
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: the word kingpin.

592
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: But you did allege that she was involved or you

593
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: speculated that she might have been involved in some bigger

594
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: drug issue.

595
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 2: She used the word kingpin. You've never used that word,

596
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: but that sort of thing, I mean a person.

597
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 4: And as far as our quote, our theory quote that

598
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 4: she's was a drug addict and a compulsive liar, that

599
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 4: wasn't our theory. That comes straight out of her mom's mouth.

600
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: I think what Brian is referring to are a couple

601
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: of things Kelly's mom, Deborah Moffatt, has said in the past.

602
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: The first was in a report written by Sergeant Kilgore

603
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: regarding Kelly coming forward. Kilgore wrote, quote, Miss Moffatt stated

604
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: to me that this whole situation has ruined Kelly's life

605
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: by her not being able to deal with the situation.

606
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 1: Miss Moffittt stated to me that last spring Kelly called

607
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 1: her on the telephone at four hundred hours crying. Kelly

608
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: stated to Miss Moffittt, I saw Anastasia murdered. From that

609
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 1: point on, according to Miss Moffatt, they have been chipping

610
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: away on her, trying to get the whole story. I

611
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: asked again when Kelly first told her this, and Miss

612
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: Moffett stated that Kelly was lying to them a lot

613
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: back then, and then said I better shut up then.

614
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 1: On the stand, during cross examination, Deborah was asked if

615
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: Kelly would mislead her about her drug use and other topics.

616
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: Deborah said, in part quote, well, she was a drug addict.

617
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: She was lying to me because she needed money. She

618
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: wanted to come back home. I had a younger daughter

619
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: at home. She knew if she came back home she

620
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: could use drugs. I mean that's what a drug addict does.

621
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: She couldn't really tell me the truth about any of

622
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: her activity. Okay, back to Brian, you know.

623
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 4: That's not us saying that she says that she was

624
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 4: a compulsive liar and a drug addict. And the phone

625
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 4: call that she has with Byron, she says, nobody's gonna

626
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 4: believe me because I'm a crackhead, I'm a poke head,

627
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 4: and I'm an alcoholic. You know. I mean, that's not us,

628
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 4: that's her.

629
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 2: I hear you.

630
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: I do.

631
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: This has thrown me for a bit of a loop.

632
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 2: I'm just being very honest with you.

633
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 4: What are your concerns?

634
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 2: I mean I could just hear in your voice. Yeah,

635
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 2: I mean I'm upset.

636
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: I've been up all night and like really concerned about this, because,

637
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: first of all, I'm not thrilled with myself for not

638
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: catching that. I think that for somebody who says is

639
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 1: that they have told the truth and have been fighting

640
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: a credibility issue, and this has been one of the

641
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: things used against them to say, look, they're lying. And

642
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: she very quickly pointed out something that could potentially prove

643
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 1: that she's told the truth, that she really didn't have

644
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: this sentence. She didn't spend time in jail for this,

645
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: She wasn't on probation. That is worrisome to me, and

646
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: I understand that, like the other issue is the Brady violations,

647
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: that the prosecutors didn't hand this over.

648
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 2: I do understand. I understand that.

649
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: I guess I understand that you're saying that that's still

650
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 1: that's doesn't change.

651
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 5: Let me clarify the leg Stop you guys, stop, stop, stop,

652
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 5: just answer answer this. Let me clarify the legal issue

653
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 5: for you. The prosecutor is obliged to disclose if a

654
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 5: witness they're using has any criminal convictions for felonies or misdemeanors.

655
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 5: They were asked and they said none. And then in

656
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 5: a deposition, Kelly Moffatt was asked, do you have any

657
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:10,479
Speaker 5: felonies or misdemeanor convictions, and she said, I've never even

658
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 5: been in trouble with the police, So that's a lie.

659
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,800
Speaker 5: And so at the time of trial, the defense lawyer

660
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 5: was entitled to prove that she had been arrested and charged,

661
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 5: and frankly, under the circumstances, I think this was a

662
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 5: minor in possession charge that got dropped down to a

663
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 5: littering charge on a misdemeanor, because that's what the facts show,

664
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 5: and so that's the record. And then we have a

665
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 5: judgment that shows that she's facing a possibility of arrest

666
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 5: and there's a warrant. There's an actual warrant connected to

667
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 5: this case. That warrant is pending during the pendency of

668
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 5: Byron's charges. That gives her in incentive. And it doesn't

669
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 5: matter that the prosecutor played on it or used it.

670
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 5: What matters is that that fact out there is an

671
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 5: incentive for her to color her story, to cooperate with

672
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 5: the police, to do what's necessary to avoid being taken

673
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 5: into custody and go go cold turkey in a jail cell.

674
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 5: It's not that it's a serious charge, it's that it's

675
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 5: a charge that could result in her going to jail,

676
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 5: But it's also a lie she told in a deposition

677
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 5: and something the defense was entitled to use. But in

678
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 5: terms of the overall story here, it's not the biggest

679
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 5: thing that shows she's lying. It is a thing that

680
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 5: could have been used, not just the conviction itself, but

681
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 5: the fact that she lied about ever being in trouble

682
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 5: with the police. So that's where it all fits.

683
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like the warrant was issued for her

684
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: because she didn't show up to the arraignment.

685
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: So that's why the warrant was.

686
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 5: Issued, right, right, because the charge was pending, right, So

687
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 5: that's number one.

688
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: Number two, we don't know that there was a bigger

689
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: charge or anything like possession. We don't know that to

690
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: be the case, right, And my whole thing is like,

691
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: now that we've seen this clerical error on the docket,

692
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: what some of what was used to say Kelly might

693
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 1: have worked with prosecutors to get out of something bigger,

694
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,919
Speaker 1: something that would have resulted in two years probation, forty

695
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: eight hours shot jail time. We has been is not proven,

696
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: has not been proven. We don't know that to be

697
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: the case. So I get that the Brady violations are

698
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: still there. I'm not taking anything away from that, but

699
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,439
Speaker 1: something that has been used to, you know, discredit her

700
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: and make it seem like she and allude to the

701
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: fact that she might have worked with prosecutors. I don't

702
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: think that there there's I don't think the facts are

703
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: there right now. I cannot we cannot prove that she

704
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: was actually sentenced to that time and that probation. If

705
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: you can find something that actually proves that that happened,

706
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 1: then that's something different. But right now, with that clerical error,

707
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: the whole that whole thing could be a clerical error

708
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: because it says under other pages the only sentence was

709
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: the fine.

710
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 4: I would just like to.

711
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 1: Say that the sheriff looked at the same court records

712
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: that we're all looking at and came up with the

713
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 1: same conclusion that that's what she was sentenced to. Yeah,

714
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: but if the court record, the court docket is is erroneous,

715
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: if it's false and they're reading he was reading the

716
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: same or she was reading the same thing that we're

717
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 1: reading from right and assuming the same thing, and he

718
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: came to the same conclusion that that case was not

719
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: connected with Kelly's case.

720
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 2: But he didn't say that in that email.

721
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: Now he says that it looks like she was sentenced

722
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: to show time and probation say anything about another case. Right,

723
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: he's saying, I read the court record that you read,

724
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: and this is the conclusion.

725
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 2: I came up with. Right, But we can't.

726
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not proof of anything because we're as

727
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: we're understanding, like there are falsehoods. There's like you know,

728
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 1: there are clerical errors on them. I know that that's

729
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: what you want in order to feel good about this,

730
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 1: because I get as a journalist, you want to you

731
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,919
Speaker 1: want the proof before you start accusing people or giving

732
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: people a platform to do damage to some I understand

733
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 1: where you're coming from.

734
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 4: I do, I get it.

735
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I am.

736
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 1: Just trying to be fair to both sides, and when

737
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 1: something is brought to me, I have to go to

738
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: the other side and ask about it.

739
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 2: I mean I was stunned last night. I mean stunned.

740
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 1: And you know, does she bring evidence of anything out?

741
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: Like all the evidence that she has to prove her innocence, we.

742
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 2: Would love to see.

743
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: So if there's anything else that she has, I have

744
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: searched this file inside it now and I have looked

745
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 1: for things that can corroborate her story, and so if

746
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: there's anything else, we'd love to know about it. She

747
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 1: just screen grabbed the sentence for me and it said,

748
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: you know, fourteen dollars and ninety five cents.

749
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 4: And that's all that.

750
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: That's the only evidence that she's offered you to corroborate

751
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 1: any of her I mean, is there Yeah, because she

752
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: says there's nothing else to prove, that's what she I means,

753
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: She's like, I didn't do the time. That wasn't my sentence. Oh,

754
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: I'm just talking about her story in general. I mean,

755
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 1: it seems like she's really honed in on this.

756
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:31,439
Speaker 2: No, this is this has been from.

757
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: Yesterday, last night to this morning, you know, I mean,

758
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: this is what we're focused on, what I'm focused on

759
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: right now. And yes there are questions about other things

760
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: for sure, but this is this is the focus for

761
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: right now.

762
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 5: Well, it's what do you compare with I've never been

763
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,919
Speaker 5: in trouble with the police. You know, we can show

764
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 5: that to a lie.

765
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 2: I hear you, Sean, I really do.

766
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 1: I also can understand and this is where maybe the

767
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 1: Libra and me can get me in trouble sometimes because

768
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: I can see side so very much. But I can

769
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: see a young kid who's scared and is like, doesn't

770
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: think a littering charge and a fine of fourteen dollars

771
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: and ninety five cents is really getting in trouble with police.

772
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure she was surrounded by a lot of people

773
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 1: in that drug world who were getting in real trouble

774
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,919
Speaker 1: with the police, and so she didn't actually consider it.

775
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 4: So she said it go ahead. Sorry, I apologize, No,

776
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 4: I was.

777
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: Just gonna say, like what she said in her deposition,

778
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: I mean, was she hiding something?

779
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 4: I don't know.

780
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: I kind of understand her being like, it wasn't that

781
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 1: big of a deal. I paid less than fifteen bucks

782
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: to get out of it. If anything, to your point,

783
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: it's the prosecutors who should have turned that over.

784
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 4: Her description to you did not sound like it wasn't

785
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 4: that big of a deal, she says. She vividly remembers

786
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 4: now getting arrested by the Least Summit Police Department and

787
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 4: extradited to Cooper County. And so you're saying that.

788
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: You can, but she doesn't remember going to jail or

789
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 2: being on probation.

790
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 4: But she would have gone to jail if she tested

791
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 4: and got extradited to Cooper County and by.

792
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: Going to jail and being sentenced to jail or two

793
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 1: different things.

794
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 4: Right, Yes, but not with what you're talking about. You're

795
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 4: saying you believe what Kelly's saying that she would. Well,

796
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 4: I totally slipped my mind when I'm in a deposition

797
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 4: on a murder case when Byron's defense lawyer says, have

798
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 4: you ever been convicted of a class of a misdemeanor

799
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 4: or felony in state or federal court? And it just

800
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 4: slips her mind because in her mind this was just

801
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 4: some little ticket. No, it could not have been some

802
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 4: little ticket in her mind at that time based on

803
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 4: what she told you, she got picked up on a

804
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 4: warrant and got transferred from Jackson County to two hours

805
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 4: away to Cooper County to be arraigned. Right, And we

806
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 4: have no idea, and she hasn't said yet. I'm sure

807
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 4: she'll come up with a great story on what happened

808
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 4: in between getting ac by the least Summit Police Department

809
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,280
Speaker 4: and showing up in court in Cooper County to plead guilty.

810
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 4: But there's simply no way that that would not have

811
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 4: been a big deal to her.

812
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 6: This is handcuff She's being transported in a police vehicle

813
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 6: in handcuffs, if that's not being in trouble with the police.

814
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 4: But I mean, I guess what else can I don't

815
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 4: know what else we could say about that. That's you know,

816
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 4: it is what it is.

817
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think she said she spent a little

818
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: bit of time there until she was bailed out or whatever.

819
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: But you know, yeah, I mean, I there's just I

820
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: needed to ask you about it. If you can find

821
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: anything that says that she actually was on probation or

822
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: you know, spent forty eight hours in jail, obviously I

823
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: would love to see it. As of right now, I

824
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 1: can't say that I believe that that happened.

825
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:57,720
Speaker 2: And I think that this clerical error.

826
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, well we know that, but there's a clerical error.

827
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 4: We don't know the extent of it. And it's our

828
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 4: job to assume that. When there's facts that could go

829
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 4: either way, we have to look at them and what

830
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 4: helps our client, what's in the best interests of our client.

831
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,879
Speaker 4: This clerical error has somebody else's case number on there,

832
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 4: but it says consecutive with that case number, so in

833
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 4: our mind and I'm reading this, it's what I just

834
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:27,919
Speaker 4: sent you. I just emailed it to you. I thought

835
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 4: you would have already had it, and maybe you do.

836
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 4: But that nothing about this rules out that she still

837
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 4: got thirty days a suspended execution, a suspended execution of

838
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 4: thirty days with two days shock time in two years probation.

839
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 4: We still have evidence of that. It's what I just

840
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 4: sent you. Maybe this other person also got that same

841
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 4: sentence for a different class a misdemeanor, but that does

842
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 4: not disprove that Kelly MafA did it. And even if

843
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 4: it did again, that's not the central issue. The central

844
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 4: issue is she was convicted of a misdemeanor, and she

845
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 4: lied about it, and the prosecutor's office failed to disclose.

846
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 5: It, and we couldn't find a relationship between the two cases,

847
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 5: and so, you know, looking at it when we drilled

848
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 5: down into it, it's a mistake by one number in

849
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 5: that notation that this sentence is consecutive to that other sentence.

850
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 5: The other sentence belongs to somebody else, but this sentence

851
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 5: is Kelly's.

852
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: For the record, the two case numbers are not even

853
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 1: remotely alike. Each are twelve digits, which include both letters

854
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: and numbers, but These two are not off by a

855
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: digit or two. They are radically different. It seems the

856
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: only thing Kelly and this Brendan person have in common

857
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: is that two separate events happen in their cases on

858
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: the same day. April third, two thousand and one.

859
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 2: Did you ever look at Angie's.

860
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 1: Angie Giannino is the friend Kelly was with when they

861
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: were pulled over in Cooper County. You heard from Angie

862
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: in episode eleven, And what did you find.

863
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 2: From Angie's docket?

864
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 4: We were just looking at that again recently. Let me see,

865
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 4: let me find some notes here. I know for a

866
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 4: fact that she showed up to her hearing. She did

867
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 4: not have a warrant issue for her arrest, and she

868
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 4: was fined two hundred and fifty dollars, but her charge

869
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 4: was a Class B missdemeanor for exceeding the speed limit

870
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:31,959
Speaker 4: of twenty miles an hour or more.

871
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,720
Speaker 6: Because she successfully paid the fine and completed her probation,

872
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 6: that won't be publicly available on case neet, but she

873
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 6: had to get that a different.

874
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 4: Way, and she well, this was on case net what

875
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 4: I just said. Let's see, so she was That was

876
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 4: June sixth of two thousand and that's the date that

877
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 4: Kelly was also supposed to show up, and she skipped,

878
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 4: and then it was a couple weeks after that that

879
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,240
Speaker 4: the warrant was issued for her arrest.

880
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: And there's also an error on the date that they

881
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: were arrested. I thought, in case at one point it

882
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 1: said five on May fifteenth, but.

883
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 2: It's actually April fifteenth.

884
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: Why on this page does it only say the finest

885
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: thirteen dollars. The sentence is fourteen dollars and ninety five cents.

886
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, that's kind of one of

887
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 4: those things that we're like, yeah, we know that this

888
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 4: is an imperfect record, and that's why we've been waiting

889
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 4: to not waiting, but trying to. You know, we've sent

890
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 4: record requests to everybody. Nicole when we after we first

891
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 4: found out about this issue, drove to Cooper County and

892
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 4: went and looked looked for it physically, for records that

893
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 4: we could find, you know, I mean, that's this is

894
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 4: one of the problems you routinely run into with these

895
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 4: kinds of cases, is that once it's been decades, you know,

896
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 4: you're you're practically doing what's the word, I'm looking for

897
00:49:54,600 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 4: archaeological examination, right, it's so I'm glad that Kelly able to,

898
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 4: you know, say no, that that didn't happen. But at

899
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 4: this point we still only have Kelly's word for it.

900
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 4: And again, let's let's assume she's right and for some reason,

901
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 4: her friend gets on a lower misdemeanor charge. Her friend

902
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 4: gets two hundred and fifty dollars, but after having to

903
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 4: issue a warrant that she's picked up on, she was

904
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 4: only fined fifteen dollars. It's I don't know, it's just

905
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 4: in my experience. There's we still got a lot of questions.

906
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: It is interesting that Angie got a two hundred and

907
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,720
Speaker 1: fifty dollars fine and Kelly got only a fourteen dollars

908
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 1: and ninety five cent fine. But how much would a

909
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: minor be fined for a littering charge? Anything else anybody

910
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: wants to say before we I would just like to

911
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 1: say some of the stuff that Kelly said about Cooper

912
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,280
Speaker 1: County and getting arrested with Angie and taking her car back,

913
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's not true. I mean, Angie, we

914
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 1: have an affidavid from Angie Gannino that contradicts that straight up.

915
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 1: But I went back to Angie's affidavit, and she said

916
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 1: this about what happened after she and Kelly were arrested. Quote,

917
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: when we were pulled over, I was arrested and ticketed

918
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,439
Speaker 1: for driving ninety miles per hour in a seventy mile

919
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: per hour zone. My vehicle was impounded and I was

920
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: taken to the Cooper County jail. Kelly was ticketed for

921
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: littering for throwing the bottle of alcohol out the window.

922
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: I do not know if she was arrested. I do

923
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 1: not know how she got back to Kansas City, Okay.

924
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: Kelly told me that instead of impounding Angie's car, police

925
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 1: gave Kelly Angie's car keys, and Kelly used Angie's car

926
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 1: for a couple of days. I don't want to say more,

927
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: but Kelly's not been truthful with you all the way.

928
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 1: But I understand where you're coming from and wanting to

929
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: Q and being worried and.

930
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 4: Concerned, and we appreciate being fact checked. And yeah, I

931
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 4: mean I think you So everything about our case still stands.

932
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 4: Is arrested at least once, uh, which she denied ever

933
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,720
Speaker 4: being being in trouble with the police. She was convicted

934
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 4: of a Class A misdemeanor which she lied about and

935
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 4: which the prosecutors failed to disclose. That's the salient issue,

936
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 4: and discovery and uh more investigation will get to the

937
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 4: bottom of what exactly she was sentenced to. But if

938
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 4: the only evidence refuting this is Kelly Moffatt, well that's

939
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 4: hardly any evidence at all.

940
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess what would it take for you

941
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: to build it? And I'm not kelly spokesperson. I'm just

942
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: asking these questions. What would take? What would it take

943
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: for you to believe that Kelly in fact was not

944
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 1: sentenced to forty eight hours shop jail time in two

945
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: years probation.

946
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 4: I would probably say some certified record that shows that

947
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 4: that's all it was that or I don't know, a

948
00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 4: cashed check or some document or or the testimony of

949
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 4: some other credible person other than Kelly that was there.

950
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 4: You know, something along those lines would would be helpful. Obviously.

951
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 4: You know, it's hard to sit anywhere and say, oh, well,

952
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 4: if this happened. You know, every time something comes up,

953
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 4: we're gonna have questions, and especially if it's something that

954
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 4: Kelly is relying on. But but yeah, I mean, I

955
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 4: wouldn't say we're not for our purposes. What she was

956
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 4: sentenced to is almost beside the point, you know. The

957
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 4: point is what we've already mentioned, that she was convicted,

958
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,720
Speaker 4: that she was in trouble, and that she lied about it, right.

959
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: I think, I mean she was was in this morning,

960
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: still very upset about this, just so you know, very upset.

961
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 4: I mean that's Byron's been in prison for almost twenty

962
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 4: five years because of her lives. So I don't really

963
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 4: care if she's upset. But I'm glad you thanks for Tommins.

964
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: I think our goals and this aren't you know, they're

965
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. You come from a

966
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 1: journalist's point of view, and we're just presenting facts as.

967
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 4: We see them.

968
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: We may have, you know, hypotheticals. That's our job, you know,

969
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 1: is to try to figure out what happened. And but

970
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I'm sorry to interrupt you, Nicole.

971
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:23,399
Speaker 2: I think the whole thing.

972
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 1: I think Kelly's point right now is that she's been

973
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: fighting credibility issues for a very long time and here's

974
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:37,439
Speaker 1: an example of something that's being used, wrongfully used against her,

975
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: and she's like, I told you this didn't happen. This

976
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: is a clerical error. This, This did not happen, and

977
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: this is an example of stuff that's been used against

978
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 1: me to try to make me look like a liar.

979
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 2: And she's like, yes, I've lied in the past.

980
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: There are things that I can't remember, but I remember

981
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: the important stuff. She remembers what she said about Byron,

982
00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:59,280
Speaker 1: and she remembers what she witnessed Byron.

983
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 2: Do she remembers not.

984
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 1: Going to jail and not spending being sentenced to probation,

985
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 1: and you know, it's I don't know, I just.

986
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 4: Well, and just just to put things in context too.

987
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 4: What Kelly says about this is we learned about it

988
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 4: when we were listening to the podcast. Right, We've never

989
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 4: had it. We have yet to have the opportunity to

990
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 4: find out anything more about this, you know. And we

991
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 4: and when we asked Angie what she knew about it,

992
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 4: she said, I don't know what happened. I don't know

993
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 4: what happened after it. I don't know what happened with

994
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,879
Speaker 4: Kelly's thing, Right, She said that to me too, Yeah,

995
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 4: and so and we we know for a fact though

996
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 4: she got a warrant, and she got picked up on

997
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 4: a warrant, and it seems very strange to me that

998
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 4: a rural county judge would issue a bench warrant, and

999
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 4: then once the person shows up in his courtroom on

1000
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:53,399
Speaker 4: that bench warrant on a Class A misdemeanor, he says, Oh,

1001
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 4: never mind, I'm only going to sentence you to fifteen dollars. Fine.

1002
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 4: I just don't that. I still have a lot of

1003
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 4: questions about that, and just Kelly's word that that's all

1004
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 4: that happened just doesn't to me. That's not doesn't really

1005
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 4: move me.

1006
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 2: All right, thank you everyone, I appreciate it.

1007
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, hey, it's still great, I hope. Yeah, we're passionate

1008
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 4: about this.

1009
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,720
Speaker 2: Thanks everyone, Bye bye bye.

1010
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: The next day, Brian and I speak again. One of

1011
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: the things Brian says is he doesn't want me to

1012
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: think the team was trying to pull one over on me. Okay,

1013
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:40,439
Speaker 1: this was supposed to be our last episode, but there's

1014
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,919
Speaker 1: still so much left to share, like what Byron's legal

1015
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,800
Speaker 1: team and Byron have to say about some of Kelly's allegations,

1016
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: and what they have to say when I ask them.

1017
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: Some of your questions and mine. To see photos, maps,

1018
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: and documents really to this season's story. Follow the Real

1019
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: Killer podcast on Instagram and at TRK podcast on TikTok.

1020
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: The Real Killer is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia,

1021
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 1: hosted by me Leah Rothman, Executive producers Leah Rothman and

1022
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Written by Leah Rothman, Editing

1023
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: and sound design by Cameron Taggi, Mixed and mastered by

1024
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 1: Cameron Taggi, Audio engineer Justin Longerbeam studio engineer Graham Gibson,

1025
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 1: Legal consul for AYR Media. Jonni Douglas, executive producer for iHeartMedia,

1026
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: Maya Howard