WEBVTT - Cold Cases 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.240 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.640 those of the authors and participants and do not necessarily 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:11.639 represent those of iHeart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:16.880 This series contains discussions of violence and sexual violence. Listener 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:24.959 discretion is advised. Previously, an algorithm journalist Thomas Hargrove developed 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:28.920 a computer program to try to detect serial killers. We 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.440 selected ten major cities that appeared to have a suspicious 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:36.559 number of algorithm identified murders, and Gary was one of 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:40.839 those ten. Hargrove reached out to police in Gary, Indiana 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.519 and told them about a suspicious cluster of strangulations in 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.159 the area, but he didn't hear back. He did, however, 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:51.640 get through to the coroner's office, which assigned one of 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:55.560 its corners assistants to look at the issue. She totally 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.440 bought into the idea that these could be connected murders 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:01.280 and was trying to have a conversation with the Gary 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:05.480 Police department. So what was going on in Gary, Indiana 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:10.560 And why weren't the Gary police talking to Hargrove from 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:16.440 iHeart Media and Tenderfoot TV. This is Algorithm. I'm ben Keebrick, 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:23.080 Gary sits on the sand dunes of Lake Michigan, just 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:27.720 fifteen miles southeast of downtown Chicago. Growing up in Chicago, 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:30.720 did you have any kind of sense of Gary? There's 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:35.840 a whole song about Gary in the musical The Music Man. Gary, Indiana. 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:39.880 What a wonderful name. That was quite a joke because Gary, 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:43.160 Indiana was not an attractive place to live. The city 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.160 of Gary was founded by the U. S. Steel Corporation 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.920 in nineteen o six to house a massive new steel mill. 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:53.600 Every night, this Fourth of July when the best first 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:57.240 go into action. And here's your action, Roman Candles launching 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.320 the flexness of the n G. Gary shy up like 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.400 a rocket to meet the U. S. Steel Corporation's needs. 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.280 Its population grew to over a hundred thousand people by 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:11.720 nineteen thirty, and it became the second largest city in Indiana. 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.720 The steel jobs and Gary paid well and didn't require 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.440 formal education or even much English, so it became a 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:25.040 destination for immigrants, especially young men shrouded by smoke from 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.120 the steel mills. It gained a reputation both as a 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:33.320 city of industry but also a city of vice, with gambling, prostitution, 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:38.560 and violence. When the Great migration began. Gary Steel jobs 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.760 attracted black workers who were leaving the Jim Crow South 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.480 for better opportunities up north, and in nineteen sixty seven, 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.600 Gary became one of the nation's first cities to elect 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:52.079 a black mayor, Richard de Hatcher. This has been one 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:55.480 of the most significant campaign in the history of our city. 0:02:56.360 --> 0:03:00.800 Marxian of years of corrupt machines us and did a 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:06.640 great day for the city of Garret. Gary was also 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:10.440 the birthplace of Michael Jackson, and the Jackson Five released 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:15.079 their first single, Big Boy, In on Gary's own Steel 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:21.880 Town Records label. But just as the U. S. Steel 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:26.400 Corporation created Gary seemingly overnight, the company also left the 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:30.120 city and alerch. It summed up well in the film 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.239 Original Gangsters. Back in the fifties, the community was supported 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:37.400 by the U. S. Steel Mill. It was damn hard work, 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.840 but people raised their family as well. Then, just twenty 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:46.800 years later, without warning, US Steel shut down the mill. First, 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.400 the workers thought it was temporary, but it wasn't. Their 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.800 savings went unemployment ran out and that has been the 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:59.160 inheritance of the children of Gary. Gary's story is similar 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:02.920 to other Respells cities, just more extreme because the whole 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.560 city was built around the steel mill, so the loss 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:09.840 of steel jobs destroyed the local academy. And at the 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.600 same time, many white residents fled and took their tax 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:18.440 base with them. The population shrunk and people abandoned their homes, 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.840 and without jobs or money to provide social services, crime grew. 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.440 Throughout the nineties, Gary often had the highest homicide rate 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:31.320 in the nation. And that period during the nineties when 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:35.279 Gary was experiencing this extremely high homicide rate, that's the 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:40.520 same period where Hargrove's algorithms starts detecting unsolved strangulations in Gary, 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:43.800 and that's probably at least part of the reason why 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.600 when Hargrove reached out to the Gary Police Department, they 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:50.159 didn't respond. The police already knew that Gary had too 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:54.480 many unsolved murders, but the department was under resourced. They 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:58.120 were struggling to investigate recent murders, let alone cold cases 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:02.279 going back more than a decade. But when Jackie, the 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:06.200 assistant corner, saw Hargrove's list, it didn't matter to her 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.520 how old these cases were. It was a tragedy that 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:16.720 they'd gone unsolved in the first place. Hello, Hi, this 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.719 is Ben, I'm the journalist that reached out to you. 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.680 Oh hi, how are you? What can I do for you? 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.680 I told Jackie that I was looking into the cold 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:29.120 cases from Hargrove's algorithm, and I wanted to know more 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:33.279 about the investigation she had done. Back in My boss 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:37.160 came to me with the latter at the time. He 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.360 asked me if I you know, would we didn't look 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.479 into it or whatever? And of course I will, you know, 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:45.719 I mean, that's what our job was. We were supposed 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:49.240 to look into stuff. So uh. I started by pulling 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.880 the charts because we didn't have no computer system to 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:56.080 show us that her group's algorithm had identified a cluster 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:00.880 of fifteen strangulations that had taken place between nineteen and 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:04.920 two thousand seven, and all of those homicides were listed 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:10.520 as unsolved. I started just making a chart, you know, females, 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:14.640 where they were found, how they were killed. And she 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:18.359 looked to see what evidence had been collected. Importantly, she 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.960 wanted to know if rape kits had been performed. If so, 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.039 there might be DNA evidence that could show if cases 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:28.120 were linked to each other, were to other cases from 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:32.279 across the US. As she went through the cases, One 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:36.680 victim stood out to Jackie, the two thousand six murder 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:40.360 of S. E. Mitchell. Mitchell was an eighty four year 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.880 old woman who had been strangled and sexually assaulted right 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:47.320 outside her own home. You don't find that too often. 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.240 Or somebody raped and killed the Graham on their yards. 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:55.320 So and it reminded Jackie of two other recent murders 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.400 that had stood out to her. Both were old women 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.719 who had been sexually assaulted, it and killed near their homes. 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:05.480 One of these murders had taken place in Gary, and 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:09.279 Jackie had worked on the case personally. Another one took 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.200 place in nearby Hammond, and she'd heard about it from 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.480 a coworker. Yeah, it was pretty upsetting that day when 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:17.480 I had my case and then I found out somebody 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.360 else had one, you know, a town over, and then 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:24.200 you're like, what in the world. Jackie had already wondered 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.360 if those two cases were connected, and now with the 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:31.080 extra name on Hargrove's list, she was even more suspicious. 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:33.800 But you know, I got hurt and then I got 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.800 let go. So I'm curious and no worries if this 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:42.120 is too personal, but what what happened? Oh, I got 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.360 hurt at work. We were carrying bodies out of a 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.840 house and the other person had dropped their end and 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:52.000 I hung on and it pulled my vertebrae and my 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.560 neck and busted it. I got a cadaver bone put 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.360 in and a plate, and then I couldn't go back 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:02.120 to work because I can't physically do the work. Yeah, 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.360 what happens to people all the time. So you know, 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.040 my idea was, you know, stay positive. You can still 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.120 help people, you know, see your grandkids more than you 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:15.120 ever could. But then you start to look back at 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.520 this stuff and you start to realize how people, you know, 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:22.760 they could use another head, you know, is that something 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:27.800 you're interested in, like continuing looking into this stuff? Oh well, yeah, 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:31.160 I mean I would love to help people find some 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:35.480 kind of comfort or closure. Working in true crime, you 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:39.640 hear a lot about the concept of closure. Victims relatives 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:43.840 sometimes express ambivalence about the idea, but Jackie is speaking 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:47.720 from a place of personal experience. When she was in college, 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:51.080 her niece disappeared. She was a Jane Doe. For a 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.800 long time, we didn't know where she was, and so, 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:58.080 you know, somebody found out and worked hard enough to 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:00.520 let us know and she went from missing person who 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:05.319 identify and you know that's nice? Yeah, did they eventually 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.719 find the killer? You know, they've never arrested no one 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:13.359 for her. So yeah, I twitched my college around and 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:16.560 and ended up getting into this. You know, I thought 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:20.880 I could help some other family that would be great. Yeah, 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.560 so you know, you get a a reason why you 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.559 do things. I think, you know, and Jackie wonders if 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:30.800 there's more that needs to be done with her gross 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.640 list and with the research that she did back in 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.439 I hate to see somebody else's kids get killed when 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:42.199 there's ways it can possibly be stopped, you know, if 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.400 you have a pattern or something. I'm sure you know 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.360 the police know how to follow all that. So you're saying, 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:49.719 your boss kind of like told you to look into this. 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:54.400 Did you ever like go back to him, and do 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.200 you know if that ever like was given to the 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.880 police or Oh yeah, I worked. I saw the Gary 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.800 police going over it how much I detectives went over 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:08.880 it with me. My chart mad So they were interested 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.840 in it and they were taking it seriously. You felt, well, yeah, 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:13.640 I mean, if you bring something to the police, they 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:17.679 take it serious normally. Yeah, Well, it's just because her. 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.360 Grow wasn't sure, so I think hard Grow sent them 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.920 the letter and they didn't want to get back to him. 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.640 Maybe they were given hard Grow over harder time. But 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.520 me being at the corner's office and now he's working 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.680 with them, you know, they came down to my office 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:35.040 more than once, I could say that, and sat down 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:37.360 with me with the file that I had pulled and 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.280 the chart I'd made. They did do that. The Gary 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.240 detectives did come down and and see what I had, 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:47.319 you know, but you know, we're not police. I can't 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:49.720 only do so much, and you don't know what really 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:54.559 happens in their departments and stuff. Jackie wasn't sure what 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.560 the detectives did with the information she'd given them, and 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.559 she'd still been doing research and pulling document mints when 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.760 she injured her back and lost her job. She doesn't 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.480 think any annelis at the coroner's office picked up the 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:16.199 project once she left. In October, Hargrove published his story 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:19.720 about the algorithm and its various findings across the nation. 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:24.160 The final version included only a few lines on Gary 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:28.760 about the letter Hardgrove sent to police, describing strangulations going 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.760 back to the nineties and how the letter had prompted 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:36.000 Jackie's investigation, and it seemed like that was that a 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.480 set of murders in Northwest Indiana unlikely to ever be 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:47.520 solved until four years later on October, when Africa Hardy 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:52.080 was strangled, and there's cold cases Hargrove had identified suddenly 0:11:52.160 --> 0:12:18.240 didn't seem so cold. I want to jump away from 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.079 the algorithm for a bit here and focus on Africa 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:25.320 Hardy's investigation and how her case came to be linked 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:29.760 to a serial killer. For years, very little was known 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:34.040 about what happened to Africa Hardy. Police never released much 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.880 about their investigation. Do you do you know what Indiana law? 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:42.040 Is there any way to get a copy of records 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.920 like that? I have no idea. UM, I don't know 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:49.079 what the limits are for their open records law. UM 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.360 what Hammond did might be available to you if you 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.840 push for it. They don't want to talk about it either, 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.920 I assume, because they don't want to embarrass their name 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.800 bring police agency. But at the same time it might 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.959 be an open record. I don't know. You should try 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:08.600 and you should try to find out that would be 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.960 you'd be the first to do that. Last April through 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:15.960 Indiana's version of the Freedom of Information Act. I requested 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:19.600 all the information related to Africa's case and cases that 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:23.840 could be connected. For five months, my request got bounced 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.560 around between the Hammond Police and their legal department. I 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.280 was told they'd have to figure out what, if anything, 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.440 they were allowed to release. I wasn't sure if I'd 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.440 ever get these documents, so I tried to interview any 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.400 and I could who was connected to the case. I 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:43.720 heard stories of conspiracies and police and competence, but it 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.080 was hard to sort through what was real and what 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.480 was just a rumor, especially because some of the people 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.400 closest to the case, like the officers and the Hammond 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.560 Police Department, had been prohibited from speaking to me on 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:59.680 the record. Then in September, I got an email with 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.320 the ink. It was a dropbox folder with forty five 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:08.240 gigs worth of videos, including audio from the night Africa died. 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.080 Yeah and number one, Hey him, and it's Geary transferring 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.280 the calls. You know, the Motel sixth and female is responsible. 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:20.160 She thinks she did. Okay, ma'am, okay, what room are 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:24.760 you in, ma'am? One song one was the last time 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:31.680 you saw her earlier today like, well, ok I need 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.360 you to tell like like three o'clock. Okay, I need 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:38.280 to is there any blood or anything on her? No? 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.480 Need you know how to take your fingers and put 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:42.840 him on the side of her neck. I want to 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.600 know if I'm so scared to do that, I'm some scared. 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:53.760 On October seventem Africa Hardy's friend Shamika, had discovered Africa's 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.760 body in the bathtub of a motel six in him 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.480 in Indiana. The clock was now kicking. The first forty 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.400 eight hours following a murder are the most crucial to 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:08.760 solving it. Crime scene investigators found signs of a struggle. 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.800 There was a shirt button on the floor, a broken fingernail, 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.760 and a torn condom wrapper. They found blood on a 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:20.480 pillow case and a knit hat under the bed, and 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.320 it appeared that someone had rifled through Africa's belongings because 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.600 her wallet and I D were there, but her cell 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:30.880 phone was missing. Police check to see if any nearby 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.600 security cameras had captured footage of the motel parking lot 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:38.640 or the door outside Africa's room. They brought Shamika back 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:42.560 to the station and Detective Shaan Ford started interviewing her. 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:57.960 Just after midnight, how Africa Day detective Forward and Shamika 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:02.080 sat at a small table in a bear window lists room. 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.360 Shamika was wearing a pink sweatshirt with the hood up 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:10.000 and looked nervous. Shamika told police that Africa had been 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:13.120 working as an escort at the Motel six, and that 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.440 she'd sought out clients by posting ads on backpage dot com, 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.600 an online classifieds website that's since been shut down. I 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:25.000 know you've been through a hard deal tonight. Here's where 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.720 the problem was. I have to start eliminating people as 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:33.040 much as I put them in. So like, obviously you're 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:35.560 the last one to see her alive, and you're the 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.160 one to find her. Okay, you've been in our company 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.720 all day long and nobody else now because she had 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:43.480 contacted some guy on here and he killed her during 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:47.160 a date or something pretty possible. But as an investigator, 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.080 I have to remain very objective and looked at the 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:54.640 whole picture. Let's go through today real quick. Where did 0:16:54.680 --> 0:17:00.320 you really up today? Yeah? Yeah, we're geting together, Yeah place? 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:07.600 What time? Anything? You got up late? Canons of Himika 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.840 says she dropped off Africa at the Mitel six round 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:14.760 two or two thirty pm. She says Africa met up 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.000 with one client in the early afternoon and another man 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:20.640 had called and said he was interested in meeting her. 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.320 The guy was called like he really was interesting, that 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.560 he really was come. He helped calling saying he's gonna 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.399 come for shore. You know they he really liked it 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.000 up pictures that he's not come and that you just 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.080 had to get a baby, so and so once you 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.480 get it, he'll calm. So when would you say the 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.119 first time you started calling Africa? I talked to her 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.720 two tigh coup times, just about the stuff here and there, 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.560 even before the first guy came. Um, I know right 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:51.520 before she had the second kind of talk maybe twice, 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:55.880 but it was real short being the one that came 0:17:55.920 --> 0:18:00.840 in U five thirteen. Ok she actually called me and 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:03.359 told me she was like he's here, and that was 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.040 at five thirteen. Is that what you're saying that time? Okay? 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:13.280 Did you ever hear from her again? It's hard to hear, 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:17.320 but Schimika said that after Africa called at five thirteen 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:20.760 to say the second client had arrived, Shimika didn't hear 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:25.399 from her again after five thirteen. How many times? Do 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:31.080 you think you call her? Ah? It's a Shimika was 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.320 worried about Africa, so she called up her friend ed Wardo, 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.520 and they headed to the motel. I don't even know 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.520 she's listening one. I don't want to grow, so we 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.480 kind of listen, you know, to the door and for 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:48.400 the kid. We didn't see anyone. It was just think 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:50.040 to be like I got away from the wall a 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:54.040 little bit and then I see her shoe on the 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.879 floor and um. We talked on the light which is 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:02.720 on the outside of the Bed of Tomorrow, my album. 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.560 I just flying back and he's like called plies, called 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:11.280 the ambulist, called belief and the end they asked me 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:14.160 what she um when she breathed her? Did she held 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.000 a post? Come too scared to touch a post? At 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:24.240 Ronald he touched it and he's like it's nothing him 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.040 had a round twelve thirty am. Another officer enters the 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:36.399 interrogation room. How it's detective for its boss, Captain Zeke Kinajosa. 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.440 Kinajosa sits down and shake Shamika's hand. Had you guys 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:44.080 ever dealt what this is gonna before? Did you see 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:48.320 him at all? You talked? Woman all on the phone. Okay, 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.920 what number did he call her from? What number? I 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:56.480 made sure I remember his number? Three? One two? What 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:01.160 made you remember that number? Because I always come phone 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.680 type of prosesssions with each other. Tell each other the normals, 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.000 tell each other. Makes the license place in case somebody 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.439 happen in case? Okay, what else did she say to you? 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.320 She said, he sounded like an older guy. What do 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:17.520 you consider over what would she consider over that? That's 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:21.080 important in the nineteen I'm an old man, you know. 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:25.399 So did she show you the number? She showed me 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.240 a text? You take the whole taste and how wars 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:33.800 and how much he likes her tittures and stuff like that. Okay, Kinajosa, thanks, 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:38.240 Shamika shuts down a note and then leaves the room. Obviously, 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.159 like we over this. There's people working on other stuff, 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.320 so we just got to get through, you know, some 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:46.200 of the stuff here. Now, does she have anybody that 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:48.360 you know that would want to hurt her or anything 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.480 like that? She was a good girl. She was a 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:53.920 really good cool I mean, I know it's probably hard 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:56.680 tool to leave because of the situation that happened, but 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.040 just feels a good heart and personal give you a 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.480 last Now, I don't know how far this is gonna 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:05.600 progress or how fast. I mean, if we're gonna make 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:08.119 an arrest tonight. I don't make an arrest tonight. Obviously, 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:10.320 in an investigation, we have to look at all angles, 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.080 at everything. The phone you have on you right now, 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:17.440 with the phone around that, do you mind if I 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.840 look in here on this phone. It's not it doesn't 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.960 not link with this. It's not not helping. But well, 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.040 I kind of need to to look. But it's up 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:30.720 to you. I'm not gonna force you to or anything 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:37.520 like that. Okay, Um, do you have any other phones 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:42.520 on you or anything like that? All right, As we 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:45.240 said here, they had nothing to do it led to 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:48.479 the death of your friend. No, absolutely no. Why wouldn't 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:50.919 able to try to hanging anybody? So no, I'm not 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.040 saying that you killed her, But I'm saying sometimes people here, 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:56.960 here's what I'm worried about this want this business here? 0:21:57.359 --> 0:21:59.800 All right, Holy Bible. I was not that you make 0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:04.280 it harm anybody I love and I love kids, I 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:06.880 love just taking know what I'm saying, This business here 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:11.440 is very bro and sometimes what we find is people 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:14.600 almost become like a prisoner, a slave, that this kind 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:17.320 of work, and there are people behind the scenes, pulling 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:21.440 strangers and making money. And I just want to make 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:24.480 sure that something didn't happen here today where your good 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:28.840 friend got killed. And there's a reason that maybe you're scared. 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:34.679 I can't tell me what append something like that. I 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:38.159 will tell you didn't thinking everything that I know, I 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:41.080 would never not tell. I want you to find this person. 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:44.320 So I was I'm not scared of anybody. I don't 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:48.800 know abody get me under hostage or controlled. So I'm 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:51.480 not a decommanded person. I'm want that saying I don't 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:53.800 about but I'm very strong man, so and I would 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:57.600 not let anybody scare me or do anything this devilish. 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:01.040 And you have no idea other than the numbers you 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:04.879 provided us who could have done this. Will that number 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:09.560 be in that phone at all? No? What makes you 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:13.080 uncomfortable about me having the phone because there might be 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:16.879 like naked pictures or something like that, or piss outfits, 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:20.680 ang and stuff like that. That's okay, Hey, we could 0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:23.720 look through here together so that I'm not looking through 0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:26.600 your stuff, you know, But where I can you know, 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:31.679 I actually see the call out. Captain Kinejosa opens the 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:35.159 door and leans his head into the room just for 0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:38.800 one second. Detective Ford leaves the room for three minutes, 0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:43.760 then he returns with Hinejosa. It's now almost one thirty 0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:48.000 in the morning. All right, real quick, you said you 0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:56.320 called nyme one one? Right? Did you one? Uh? How 0:23:56.359 --> 0:24:03.000 many balls you find you right now? M this is 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:05.240 easy question. How many faults do we have on you 0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:09.480 right now? I am our? Okay him out? Why didn't 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:32.080 tell us that I don't want you to know? It's 0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:35.680 now one thirty am on the night of Africa's murder. 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:39.320 Her friend Shimika has just revealed to police that she's 0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:42.199 had a second phone on her this whole time, and 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:44.480 it's the one with the number that they posted to 0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:49.440 backpage dot com. Why didn't tell us that, I don't 0:24:49.440 --> 0:24:53.760 want you to know? First out? Looking now, we are 0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:59.000 not worried about that. No, no, no, I promise you 0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:02.440 We're not interested about prostitution. Were interested about solving this 0:25:02.560 --> 0:25:06.639 hot side. The whole encounter shows how difficult it is 0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:10.200 for sex workers to report crimes to police, which then 0:25:10.200 --> 0:25:14.439 in turn complicates trying to solve these crimes. Luckily, in 0:25:14.480 --> 0:25:18.520 this case Detective Forward and Captain Kinahosa managed to convince 0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:22.600 Shamika that they aren't interested in prosecuting her for facilitating 0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:25.960 sex work, and Shamika starts to give them a more 0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:30.800 accurate story of what really happened. She was walking. Also, 0:25:30.960 --> 0:25:34.280 everything is that now, Okay, everything's in there, including the 0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:36.879 number that the guy called. That's why you get the 0:25:36.960 --> 0:25:40.520 number because you actually had the phone. The way the 0:25:40.560 --> 0:25:45.320 system worked, Shamika talked to and booked Africa's clients. Then 0:25:45.400 --> 0:25:49.399 she'd call Africa or text the information to Africa's personal phone. 0:25:50.280 --> 0:25:53.320 Shamika says that when the five thirteen appointment should have 0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:56.360 been finished, Shamika tried to get in touch with Africa 0:25:56.480 --> 0:26:01.439 right away. I'm about al was called her phone, I 0:26:01.600 --> 0:26:04.320 was called his phone, and then I started reading to 0:26:04.359 --> 0:26:07.119