1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 2: Sick hos, the so called CEO assassin Luigi Mangioni gets 3 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 2: a half a million dollars donations for his defense, sick 4 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: letters sent to him in jail, even gifts from ghoulish fans. 5 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for 6 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 2: being with us. 7 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 3: What's next for Luigi Mangioni, a suspected CEO killer of 8 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 3: waits trial at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, amid 9 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 3: a flurry of fan mail and a legal fund boasting 10 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 3: almost half a million dollars. 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 2: That's right, yesterday it was almost half a million dollars. 12 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 4: It topped out at about. 13 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: Four hundred and seventy five four hundred and eighty thousand dollars. 14 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: But since then more donations have been pouring in. Who 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: who are these people that are funding Luigi Manngioni's defense? 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: Don't they know that his parents are millionaires, if not billionaires, 17 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 2: their bank account basically seated by the hard, back breaking 18 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 2: work of his grandparents. That aside, this is where the 19 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: case starts. 20 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 4: Listen. 21 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 5: For just over five days, our NYPD investigators combed through 22 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 5: thousands of hours of video, followed up on hundreds of 23 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 5: tips and processed every bit of forensic evidence, DNA fingerprints, 24 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 5: IP addresses, and so much more. To tighten the net, 25 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 5: we deployed drones, canine units, and scuba divers. We leveraged 26 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 5: the Domain Awareness system ARGUS cameras and conducted aviation canvasses. 27 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 5: And our detectives also went door to door interviewing potential 28 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 5: witnesses and doing the good old fashioned police work that 29 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 5: our investigators are famous for, thousands and thousands. 30 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: Of police at man hours, all to catch Luigi Mangioni. 31 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 2: Because of this, there you see the video with the 32 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 2: victim walking for Mangioni walking up directly behind him and 33 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 2: pulling the trigger. The victim, a father of two little boys, 34 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 2: now sent us to life without daddy him Now, based 35 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 2: on a new documentary, we are learning about his background. 36 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 2: The victim's background, very modest, very humble background, who works 37 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: his way up the corporate ladder only to be gunned 38 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 2: down on the sidewalk. And there's really no doubt that 39 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 2: the shooter is Mangioni. Let's see the shot of him 40 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: at a local hostel where he smiles and flirts with clerk. 41 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 4: It's a full on face shop. 42 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: Straight out to Anna Schechter, joining us CBS new senior 43 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: Coordinating producer for Crime and Public Safety beat, Anna, thank 44 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 2: you for. 45 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 4: Being with us. 46 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 2: I'm stunned that Mangioni has somehow raised half a million 47 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 2: dollars in donations. 48 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 4: Is that true? 49 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: It is true. 50 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 6: It's half a million dollars, and the organizers of this 51 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 6: givesend Go website state their goal is a million dollars 52 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 6: and his own legal defense team. These are well respected lawyer's, 53 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 6: former prosecutors in New York City. They created a website 54 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 6: that hyperlinks out to this fundraising website. This. I have 55 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 6: never seen this in twenty years of covering crime and 56 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 6: public safety, never seen anything like. 57 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 4: This, well, neither of I. 58 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: But aside from me, as half a million dollars donations 59 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: for his defense fund in the last days. 60 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 4: A bombshell in court. 61 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 2: Listen a learner and olage and that's for our friends 62 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: at Fox nine. Straight back to Anna Scheckter. What happened 63 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 2: in court? 64 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 6: Well, he pleaded not guilty despite the DNA evidence, the 65 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 6: surveillance video placing him at a Starbucks right before and 66 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 6: right there in front of that hotel, the fact that 67 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 6: when he was arrested in Altoona, Pennsylvania. He had a 68 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 6: ghost gun, the same gun, a gun that matched the 69 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 6: pellets that were left on the ground that he wrote 70 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 6: allegedly delay, deny, and depose in a seeming message, cryptic 71 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 6: message to the health insurance industry. So just so much 72 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 6: a mountain of evidence against him. But he's pleading not 73 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 6: guilty to eleven count in New York state counts and 74 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 6: four counts in federal court. One of them could carry 75 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 6: the death penalty. 76 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: Let's hear him pleading not guilty one more time, for 77 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: those of you just joining us, the so called CEO 78 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 2: assassin pleading not guilty in court. Let's hear it for 79 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: ourselves a learners and laws. 80 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 7: I mean. 81 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 4: That from our friends at Fox nine. 82 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 8: You know. 83 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: I like watching the demeanor of people in court. Do 84 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: they know what they're doing? Do they understand what's going on? 85 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: Are they lucid? I see in court right there an 86 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: attempt much like was used with the Menendez brothers, where 87 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 2: he's all prepped out and his defense attorneys are fawning 88 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 2: all over him. He knows to lean forward to the 89 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 2: microphone and in a clear voice, saying not guilty. This 90 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: amongst speculation that he may actually plead an insanity defense. 91 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: But moving forward, let's hear what else the defense attorney 92 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 2: says in court. I hope you're sitting down. 93 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 9: He was on display for everyone to see in the 94 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 9: biggest staged purp walk I've ever seen in my career. 95 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 9: There was no reason for the NYPD and everybody to 96 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 9: have these big assault rifles that frankly, I had no 97 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 9: idea it was in their arsenal, and to have all 98 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 9: of these the press there, the media there, It was 99 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 9: like perfectly choreographed. And what was the New York City 100 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:37,799 Speaker 9: mayor doing at this press conference? 101 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 2: That video from our friends at Fox five and Fox nine, 102 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 2: you are hearing the defense attorney Kiaren Agnifello, the husband 103 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 2: Agnafello is representing Sean Combe's aka Diddy. 104 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 4: She is whining in court that quote. 105 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 2: Her client was on display for everyone to see in 106 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 2: the biggest stay purp walk I've ever seen in my career. 107 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 2: Speaking of the purp Walk, let's take a look at 108 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 2: it ourselves and. 109 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 10: Experience. 110 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 2: Oh my stars, that from the Des Moines Register. Did 111 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 2: you hear what he was saying? Anna Scheckter, Can I 112 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 2: can I see it one more time? I just want 113 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 2: to see it while I hear Anna explain, did you 114 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: hear what he was saying? He is saying that everybody 115 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 2: else is completely out of touch, that the insurance industry 116 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: is completely out of touch, that it's an insult to 117 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: the intelligence of the American people. And to quote lived experience, 118 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 2: the lived experience. Now that video from our friends at 119 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: Des Moines Register, the lived experience. This is coming from 120 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: a guy who's bankrolled by mommy and Daddy, who were 121 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: banked rolled by grandma and grandpa, and and he's talking 122 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 2: about our regular people's lived experienced. This guy who's living 123 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 2: in a high rise in Honolulu looking out at the 124 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 2: sunset him that serves all day. 125 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 4: That guy. 126 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 6: This was his first hearing in Pennsylvania, the first time 127 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 6: that we saw him after he was arrested, and he 128 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 6: was acting erratically. He was shouting, this is an insult 129 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 6: to the American people in their lived experience. And he 130 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 6: in his own mind and in his own writings that 131 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 6: were found on his person when he was arrested in Pennsylvania, 132 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 6: he had this seemingly delusion of grandeur that he alone 133 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 6: could pick this CEO off. And the words he used 134 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 6: were these parasites had it coming, according to our law 135 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 6: enforcement sources and the documents that CBS News has seen. 136 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 6: So this erratic behavior linked up with that grandiosity we'll see. 137 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 6: It seemed to me like, don't forget Karen Agna. Philo 138 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 6: told CNN before she was retained as his counsel that 139 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 6: he might plead use an insanity police So that was 140 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 6: kind of a message. Maybe we can infer that we 141 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 6: are going to see this. But then, like you said, 142 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 6: when he pleaded not guilty in New York State Court, 143 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 6: he leaned into the microphone. He had control of himself. 144 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 6: He was wearing a button down shirt and then maroon sweater, 145 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 6: kind of looking put together. He did do some erratic 146 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 6: things in the courtroom, like raise his eyebrows in sort 147 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 6: of an aggressive way and look directly at members of 148 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 6: the press. So it's interesting there's erratic behavior coupled with 149 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 6: seemingly this sort of preppy, put together then near that 150 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 6: we've seen, it's just a very very bizarre set of 151 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 6: circumstances that we're. 152 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: Watching crime stories with Nancy Grace. 153 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: In the last hours, Luigimnngioni in a court of law 154 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 2: for an arrayment and Gerald Cohen a fancy word for 155 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 2: bringing the defendant in. 156 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 4: Court and reading the charges out. 157 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 2: Loud from the indictment against him, with his lawyer present, 158 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 2: and the defendant pleads guilty or not guilty, and if 159 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 2: he can't bring himself to speak, like Brian Coberger, the 160 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 2: lawyer will interplease for him. If nobody speaks, the judge 161 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 2: will automatically enter a not guilty please. 162 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 4: That's all on arrayment, is right. 163 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,319 Speaker 11: Nancy, That's exactly what it is. It's only a way 164 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 11: of the court saying when you plead not guilty, you're 165 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 11: going to be set for trial at some point in 166 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 11: the future. And pleading not guilty doesn't mean he won't 167 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 11: interuplea at some point, probably in my view, through some 168 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 11: sort of psychiatric problem, not guilty by reason of insanity 169 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 11: of some sort. 170 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 2: Wait, so you're telling me the guy that writes this extensive, 171 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 2: I don't know how many words manifesto with an intimate 172 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: knowledge of the healthcare industry exhibited in the manifesto, who 173 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 2: has the wherewithal to gather all the parts and create 174 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 2: a ghost gun which takes oh gosh, around one hundred 175 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 2: hours to create a ghost gun. You three D print 176 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 2: it at home and track the victim all across the country, writing. 177 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 4: In his notes in his notebook how. 178 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 2: He tracked him down and that the gathering the conference 179 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: would be the perfect opportunity. There's the ghost gun, perfect opportunity. 180 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 2: It's like a jackal and a gazelle. He waited for 181 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 2: the victim to leave the hotel and finally be alone 182 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 2: on an early morning walk for a breakfast at a convention, 183 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 2: stalked him, lay in wait for over an hour after 184 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 2: having watched him and cased him, then pounced and shot him. 185 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 2: That's the guy you're telling me that, under the old 186 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: McNaughton rule, didn't know right from wrong. 187 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 4: At the time of the incident. 188 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 11: Really, what I'm saying to you is, really he was 189 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 11: brought up not privileged, but overprivileged. I'm at the top 190 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 11: of the heap now I can look down and he 191 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 11: becomes part of his own cult. Everything he did shows 192 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 11: that he had been overprivileged. He decided that he needed 193 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 11: to see everything in the world his way. 194 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 2: Because kay actually hurting my ears, My ears are bleeding. 195 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 2: Thomas Smith joining me right now, former NYPD detective. 196 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 4: He knows the crime scene like the back of his hand. 197 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 2: Now Star of Gold Shields Podcast, Tom, thank you for 198 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 2: being with us. 199 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 4: You here. 200 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 2: Darryl Cohen, veteran defense attorney, teeing it up the affluenza 201 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 2: defense used by Ethan Cash and he mowed down a 202 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 2: whole group of people onside the road that I was 203 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 2: just too rich to understand what I was doing. Affluent affluenza. 204 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 2: That's a crocabs right there. 205 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 12: I would have to agree, because here's what's going to happen. 206 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 12: You know, the premeditation is going to be the compelling 207 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 12: factor in this, with him pleading an insanity plea or 208 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 12: whatever he may do in the future. The planning that 209 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 12: had to go into this, the integral parts that he 210 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 12: put into this, making the gun, tracking him, you know, 211 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 12: laying in weight, knowing his schedule, and then shooting him 212 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 12: in cold blood. The escape route where he was going 213 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 12: was all planned out. So to all of a sudden, 214 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 12: say he snapped and something along his mental capacity changed. 215 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 12: His normal way of thinking. Is not going to worry 216 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 12: in my mind? 217 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 6: Now? 218 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 12: Could he do as sure he can, but I don't 219 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 12: think that's going to work too well. 220 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 13: This morning, at six forty six a m. Patrol offices 221 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 13: from Midtown North priests and responded to a nine to 222 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 13: one one call of a person shot. 223 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 5: It appears a suspect was lying in wait for several minutes. 224 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 5: The suspect approached from behind and fired several rounds. 225 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 13: The shooter then walks toward the victim and continues to. 226 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 4: Shoot in the last hour. 227 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: Is a so called CEO assassin in courtplating not guilty. 228 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 2: This is more of what his defense attorney had to say. 229 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 4: Listen, he's a. 230 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 9: Young man and he is being treated like a human 231 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 9: ping pong ball between two warring jurisdictions here, and they 232 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 9: are literally treating him like he is like some sort 233 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 9: of political fodder, like some sort of spectacle. 234 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 2: That's my friends at Fox nine. Loyd, let me understand. 235 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 2: Anna Scheckter again, I'm going to bring in the rest 236 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 2: of panel just a moment. She the defense attorney, is 237 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 2: arguing that he, her client, Luigi Mangioni, is being rereated 238 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 2: like a human ping pong. Well, if he didn't want 239 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 2: to be extradited from Pennsylvania back to New York, he 240 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: shouldn't have committed a crime there to get arrested and 241 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 2: in New York to get extradited. That's why he's a 242 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 2: ping pong, right, he's facing these charges in New York 243 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: first because the murder occurred in New York, but there 244 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 2: are additional charges in Pennsylvania. So if he didn't want 245 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 2: to be extradited, he should have thought about that before 246 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 2: he committed all the crimes. 247 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 8: That's right. 248 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 6: He's facing eleven counts in New York, so that this 249 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 6: is the biggest pace, and two of them are terrorism related. 250 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 6: Remember after nine to eleven, new statutes were put in 251 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 6: place and investigators used those the first degree murder and 252 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 6: second degree murder on related to terrorism. So those charges 253 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 6: he faces now because that's New York state, maximum would 254 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 6: be life in prison. And then the Feds got involved, 255 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 6: The FBI was involved. He crossed state lines in order 256 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 6: to do this, and then he took a bus from 257 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 6: Atlanta to New York City in order to carry this out. 258 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:14,239 Speaker 6: Then he again crossed state lines into Pennsylvania. So immediately 259 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 6: the US Marshals are involved, the FBI is involved. He's 260 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 6: facing federal chargers. That federal first degree murder charge could 261 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 6: carry the death penalty, and look at what President Trump 262 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 6: talked about with regards to the death penalty, supporting that. 263 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 6: So let's see how this plays out. That's really interesting. 264 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 6: He's facing those four federal charges, and then in Pennsylvania 265 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 6: he's facing charges involving possession of weapons and munition and 266 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 6: also the forgery. 267 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 2: Charge, Anna Sector, You're exactly right. The reason he's charged 268 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania and Altoona is this. 269 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 4: Listen to what he had with him. 270 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 14: When police take Luigi Mangioni into custody, a search of 271 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 14: his backpack turns up what appears to be a gun 272 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 14: printed using a three D prints, along with a silencer 273 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 14: that strongly resembles the gun seen in video. 274 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 4: Footage of the assassination. 275 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 14: Officers recover a fake new Jersey ID matching the one 276 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 14: used by the killer when he registers at a Manhattan 277 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 14: hostel ten days before the shooting of Brian Thompson, as 278 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 14: well as clothing which matches that worn by the shooter. 279 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 14: Police also recover a two and a half page manifesto 280 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 14: two hundred and sixty two words handwritten that lays out 281 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 14: possible motivations for the attack. 282 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 2: To doctor Chloe Carmichael joining us, renown clinical psychologist, author 283 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 2: of Nervous Energy Harness The Power of Your Anxiety. Doctor Chloe, 284 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. A nearly three hundred 285 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 2: word manifesto. Really, and it's completely lucid. It's very well 286 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 2: thought out. How's this guy going to plead insanity? 287 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 10: That's a great question, Nancy. And let's also remember that 288 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 10: that manifesto was literally addressed to the Feds, which suggests 289 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 10: that he was quite clearly aware that his actions were 290 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 10: going to attract legal attention, just an awareness of right 291 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 10: and wrong. He also in that manifesto apologizes quote for 292 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 10: the trauma that I've caused, but it had to be done, 293 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 10: or something to that effect, which again suggests that he 294 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 10: was fully aware that he was inflicting harm. Moreover, he 295 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 10: obviously fled the scene and attempted to hide himself, again 296 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 10: suggesting a full awareness of right and wrong as well 297 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 10: as of the legality. 298 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 2: Also, the attorney is whining about comments that have been 299 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 2: made by the state. 300 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 4: Listen. 301 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 9: The second thing I want to make a record of 302 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 9: your honor is I'm very concerned about my client's right 303 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 9: to a fair trial in this case, he's being prejudiced 304 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 9: by some statements that are being made by government officials. 305 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 2: From our friends at Fox nine, Daryl Cohen, what statements. 306 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 4: Is she talking about? When he was arraigned. 307 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: When the pressors were recurring, when the manhunt was on, 308 00:18:58,560 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 2: when the arrest was made. 309 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 4: Is is that what she's complaining about Nancy. 310 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 11: What she says is not what she means. Smoke divert mitigate. 311 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 11: Smoke divert mitigate. She's throwing out smoke because she knows 312 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 11: she has to. What he did was obvious. How he 313 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 11: did it was obvious, and she's trying to set the 314 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 11: scene where he was not mentally the way he should 315 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 11: have been. That's all we're talking about again. Don't confuse 316 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 11: what she says, how she says it with what she means. 317 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 4: We're asking the public for your help. 318 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 3: Who killed United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. 319 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 13: She appears to be a light skinned male. He's wearing 320 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 13: a light brown or cream colored jacket and a very 321 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 13: distinctive gray backpack with still tracking video. The last we 322 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 13: see with him on that bike is in Central Parking. 323 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 4: In the last hours. 324 00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 2: He so called CEO assassin Luigi Mangioni in court pleading 325 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 2: not guilty, amidst swirling rumors he will ultimately change that 326 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 2: plea to insanity. Now there are two choices, not guilty 327 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 2: by reason of insanity, which means yes, I did it, 328 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 2: but I was insane when I did it, or guilty 329 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 2: but mentally ill, guilty by reason of insanity. So you've 330 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 2: got a not guilty by reason of insanity, and you've 331 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 2: got a guilty by reason of insanity. 332 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 4: Those are the choices. 333 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 2: But he surely didn't look insane to me in court 334 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 2: when he fled not guilty. Back to the public website, 335 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 2: it doesn't just explain. 336 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 4: Luigi Mangioni's point of view. It's raising money. Listen. 337 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 15: Luigi Manjoni's new website includes a link to a give 338 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 15: send to go crowdfunding website. Supporters have been making donations 339 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 15: in order to help pay man Jennie's legal fees. The 340 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 15: beginning of this week, donation's top four hundred and seventy 341 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 15: five dollars. Man Joni's lead defense attorney, Karen Friedman agna Fillo, 342 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 15: told ABC News, Luigi is aware of the fund and 343 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 15: very much appreciates the outpouring of support. My client plans 344 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 15: on utilizing it to fight all three of the unprecedented 345 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 15: cases against him. 346 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 347 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 2: Joining us now Jackie Howard Crime Story Senior producer Jackie 348 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 2: What is on the website Luigi Mangioni's personal website. 349 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 8: Oh, there are so many things on their nancy. First, 350 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 8: we have his writings. He reached out to his so 351 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 8: called fans, writing a letter telling everyone how much he 352 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 8: appreciates them getting in touch to him with him rather 353 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 8: asking them to limit what they send, but lets his 354 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 8: fans know that he reads everything that he gets sent. 355 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 8: There's an explanation all from his attorneys on why they 356 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 8: decided to create this website, so that they could counter 357 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 8: any misinformation that they say was put out there about 358 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 8: their clients. They have a link to the website to 359 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 8: raise money and the original goal was five hundred thousand 360 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 8: dollars and by the beginning of this week they had 361 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 8: already reached three quarters, actually more than three quarters of 362 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 8: their goal only with twenty five thousand dollars remaining. 363 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 2: This as a documentary Who is Luigi Mangioni? 364 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 4: Number one? 365 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 2: Do I care who he is? And a court of law, 366 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 2: the state only has to prove who did it and 367 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 2: was it in the right jurisdiction. 368 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 4: That's it. So who is Luigi Mangioni? Listen? 369 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 16: Who is Luigi Mangioni? Has an actor reading Mangioni's words 370 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 16: from a letter he wrote to authorities, comments he left online, 371 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 16: and statements he made to his mister Cactus Reddit account. 372 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 16: Mangioni says his initial health issues began when he contracted 373 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 16: lime disease at thirteen. Mangione says he started noticing mild 374 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 16: cognitive declines at fifteen, and the symptoms kept getting worse. 375 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 16: He recounts the brain fog and memory loss, yet doctors 376 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 16: could not diagnose a problem. He discusses his back pain 377 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 16: along with bladder and gentital pain. 378 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 2: Okay, a little too much information, but that said, joining 379 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 2: me now renowned chief medical. 380 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 4: Examiner from Terran County. 381 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 2: That's fort Worth Lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine 382 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 2: at TCU, Doctor Kendall Crowns. Doctor Kendall Crowns, does lime 383 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 2: disease cause insanity? 384 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 17: Lime disease does cause cognitive issues like memory impairment, kind 385 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 17: of brain fog confusion, But I don't know if it 386 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 17: causes insanity like paranoid delusions or anything like that. I've 387 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 17: never heard of it causing that type of behavior. 388 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 4: Doctor Kindle Crowns. 389 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 2: Are you suggesting that when he had, according to him, 390 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 2: lime disease, as a little boy. He now has such 391 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 2: a bad case of brain fog that he didn't know 392 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 2: right from wrong when he allegedly gunned down the health boss. 393 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 17: No, I'm not suggesting that he doesn't know right from wrong. 394 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 17: He can have confusion or memory impairment, but I don't 395 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 17: know anything that I've ever read where it says that 396 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 17: they become paranoid or delusional, can't figure out what they're doing, 397 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 17: so that I'm. 398 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 2: Not aware of what exactly is lime disease, Doctor Kendall Crowns. 399 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 17: Lime disease is caused by Beryllia bacteria, which is carried 400 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 17: in deer ticks, and the deer tick bites you in 401 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 17: the bacteria into your blood stream and. 402 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 4: Then you get So we're blaming the deer tick for. 403 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 17: Lime disease, yes, but not for shooting the healthcare. 404 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 2: Person joining us, Doctor Kendall Crowns, I'm not mocking you. 405 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 2: I'm mocking the suggestion that a deer tick a bite 406 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 2: at age thirteen, has caused brain fog that somehow excuses 407 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 2: him gunning down an unarmed man on a public street, 408 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 2: leaving behind two boys, little boys. 409 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 4: Without a dad and a widow. 410 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 2: Doctor Crown's now launching a brand new podcast, d A 411 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 2: Dead on Arrival on March four. Doctor Chloe Carmichael, clinical 412 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 2: psychologist and author. Have you ever heard that one that 413 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 2: deer a deer tick lime disease at age thirteen and 414 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 2: mild their words, not mine, mild cognitive decline at age 415 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 2: fifteen is somehow resulting in brain fog that equals insanity 416 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 2: under the law. 417 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 4: Really, No, Nancy, obviously not. 418 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 10: And that would certainly be a smear to people with 419 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 10: lyme disease everywhere to suggest, you know, that they have 420 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 10: this propensity to just you know, become deranged killers. And 421 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 10: as to the idea that he had any sort of 422 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 10: brain fog, well, it obviously didn't prevent him from you know, 423 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 10: carefully crafting a plan and assembling a ghost gun and 424 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,719 Speaker 10: tracking this man down with, as he said, a CAD 425 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 10: computer assisted you know, digital things. He was very sophisticated. 426 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 10: And then his I think of anything, he's suffering from 427 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 10: an acute case. Potentially, though I haven't Metamora, assessed him 428 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 10: of narcissism and grandiosity, you know, when he's spouting off 429 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 10: about his lived experience. What that really means is my perspective, 430 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 10: And so the fact that he thinks that his perspective 431 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 10: is somehow justifies or warns him. He's saying, oh, that healthcare, 432 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 10: that it's costing people's lives. 433 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 4: Well, guess what he did. 434 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 10: He went in, took somebody's life, and he literally apparently 435 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 10: allegedly wrote wrote words on the bullet. So no, I 436 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 10: don't think that this is a case of brain fog. 437 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 10: To me, this looks like a case of narcissism, grandiosity, 438 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 10: and psychopathy. 439 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 4: Potentially. 440 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 2: I always argue to jury's if you didn't know what 441 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 2: you were doing was wrong, why did you take off 442 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 2: running and hide out after you did it, get rid 443 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 2: of the weapon, change clothes, catch public transport to throw 444 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,479 Speaker 2: off your scent. It goes on and on the degree 445 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 2: of planning even in the flight. Now, I want you 446 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 2: to hear what is said about a potential in sanity 447 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 2: plea on a brand new documentary Who is Luigimangioni. 448 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 7: He started reading the writings of the unibomber take I 449 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 7: found online that I think is interesting. 450 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 3: Violence against them who lead us to destruction is justified as. 451 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 4: Self that's our friends and investigation discovery. 452 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 2: But that last sentence, destruction is justified as self defense. 453 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 2: That's more along the lines in this case as a 454 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 2: cold blooded shooting equaling jury nullification. To Jackie Howard, joining 455 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 2: US Crime Story Senior producer, Jackie, isn't it true that 456 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 2: a legion of as you call them, fans showed up 457 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 2: at the arrayment if we're talking about jury nullification, which 458 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 2: means they know the person committed the act, like an 459 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 2: OJ Simpson, for instance, but they don't care. 460 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 4: That's what we're looking at. Tell me about the people. 461 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 2: That had shown up at the arrangement fans, and a 462 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 2: lot of. 463 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 8: Them, nearly two dozen showed up, means the holding signs, 464 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 8: chanting free luisj Me and Gione, and most of them 465 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 8: were women again, holding signs and just making their presence known. 466 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 3: Suspected United Healthcare CEO killer Luigi Mengioni breaks his silence 467 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 3: for the first time since his arrest, sharing in a statement, 468 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 3: I am overwhelmed by and grateful for everyone. 469 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 4: Clear photos of his face. 470 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 8: We're what alerted the customers and employees at that McDonald's 471 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 8: in Altoona, Pennsylvania. 472 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 2: That's from our friends at Investigation Discovery. So with all 473 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 2: that planning, all that navigating across Manhattan to make his escape. 474 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 2: The defense is entertaining an insanity plea and insanity plea? 475 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 2: What based on the lime disease caused by deer tick 476 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 2: when he was thirteen years old? Now this is after 477 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 2: he Jackie Howard joining us from crime stories. Jackie was 478 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 2: he valedictorian at high school at his elite prep school 479 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 2: and then went on to the Ivy League University of Pennsylvania. 480 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 4: Do I have that right? 481 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 8: You have that right, Nacy. He was well known for 482 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 8: his academic prowess, and teachers and students that like bragged 483 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 8: on him constantly about his intelligent approach to everything. 484 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 4: So let me understand. 485 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 2: To Daryl Cohen, who has launched many an insanity defense, 486 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 2: the valedictorian that graduated from Ivy League school is going 487 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 2: to plead insanity based on the lyme disease at age thirteen? 488 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 11: Nancy, what he is doing? Think about this? Go back 489 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 11: days of yesteryear bear fisted heavyweight fights. This is a 490 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 11: fight between the state or the United States government and 491 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 11: Luigi Maggioni for either eth in prison if he wins, 492 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 11: or the death penalty if he loses. Either way, he 493 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 11: is going to go down. It's just a question. 494 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 2: About the insanity fence and you're not answering, and I 495 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 2: think I know why, guys. Regardless of the dear tick 496 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 2: issue when he was thirteen, he doesn't sing insane when 497 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 2: he is photographed tickling three girls at once. 498 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 4: In his Honolulu high rise. 499 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 7: Photos have emerged of Mangioni's time in Hawaii living the 500 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 7: high life. The photos show the accused killer soaking up 501 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 7: the sun, dining with friends, and carousing with a pair 502 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 7: of beautiful young women. One photo shows Mangioni cuddled up 503 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 7: on the couch next to a grinning woman, his arm 504 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 7: draped behind her. Another snap in a breezeway shows Mangoni 505 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 7: tickling the two women while they laugh. 506 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 2: Okay, there was a tickle victim number three, but that said. 507 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 2: In this new documentary, comparisons are drawn between Luigi Mangioni 508 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 2: and the murder victim. 509 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 4: Listen. 510 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,239 Speaker 15: A new documentary called Who Is Luigi Mangoni traces the 511 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 15: lives a suspect Mangioni and his victim, CEO Brian Thompson, 512 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 15: and shows how at one point in their lives they 513 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 15: had a lot in common, with both being valedictorian of 514 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 15: their high school class. The story of the two Men 515 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 15: also details the rapidest sin of Thompson, who came from 516 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 15: a rather modest home life growing up while Mangoni grew 517 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 15: up with expensive private schools where money was never an issue, 518 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 15: and how their lives intersected on a deadly morning in December. 519 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 2: That's right, Mangioni growing up with a silver spoon in 520 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 2: his mouth. Note a fork and a spoon, pure silver. 521 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 4: Listen. 522 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 15: The suspected killer of United Health CEO Brian Thompson comes 523 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 15: from a wealthy, educated, connected Maryland family. His grandfather grew 524 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 15: up poor as a first generation American who built a 525 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 15: real estate business that includes country clubs and media investments. 526 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 15: Mangoni is the cousin of Republican Maryland House of Delegates 527 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 15: member Nino Mangoni. His mother, cath Lean Zenino Mangoni, owns 528 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 15: a travel company, and his sister, Maria Santamanzoni, is a 529 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 15: respected doctor, a medical resident a ut Southwestern Medical Center 530 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 15: in Dallas after graduating from Vanderbilt Medical School. 531 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: So he was born. 532 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 2: In money, more money than any of us can really 533 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 2: even imagine. Yet somehow he is representing himself as Robin Hood, 534 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 2: taking from the rich, giving to the poor. That Robin 535 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 2: Hood and threw in a premeditated murder into it. Now, 536 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 2: legal pundits are claiming that Luigi Mangoni will never be 537 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 2: convicted because of a jury in validating the entire state's 538 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 2: case jury nullification because they are angry at the. 539 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 4: Health care industry. 540 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 2: That aside, I'm concerned about a groupie getting on the jury. 541 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 4: Listen to this. 542 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 16: The defense team asks that supporters limit the number of items. 543 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 16: It's pointed out that quote Luigi is allowed to receive 544 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 16: photos via Shutterfly and free prints in accordance with male procedures. 545 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 16: It continues, Luigi appreciates the photos that are sent and 546 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 16: kindly asks that people send no more than five photos 547 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 16: at a time. In his public statement, Mangioni writes, while 548 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 16: it is impossible for me to reply to most letters, 549 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 16: please know that I read everyone that I receive. Thank 550 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 16: you again to everyone who took time to write. I 551 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 16: look forward to hearing more in the future. 552 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 2: To Tom Smith, joining us NYPD detective for thirty years, 553 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 2: also assigned to the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force and 554 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 2: co host of gold Shields podcast, Tom, how do you 555 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 2: think that makes law enforcement feel much less? The victim's 556 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 2: family the two little boys and the wife that find 557 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 2: out daddy's gunned down on the street because he's a 558 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 2: CEO of a healthcare in stree Player. So now Luigimnngioni 559 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 2: and his website, which is soliciting money up to a 560 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 2: half a million dollars at this time, is saying, don't 561 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 2: send me more than five photos at once. 562 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,280 Speaker 12: It's just disgraceful and it's a slap in the face 563 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 12: to victim, victim, his family, the children, all the hard 564 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 12: work in law enforcement did, because all they're doing is 565 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 12: propping him up to be this messiah and this celebrity 566 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 12: when all he is is a cold bloody killer. This 567 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 12: goes to you know, we mentioned this once before. You know, 568 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 12: it's like Charles Manson, the Menendez Brothers, Richard Vermirez, all 569 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 12: of these you know, followers that come out for this 570 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 12: cold blooded killer is just an attempt to taint a 571 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 12: jury pool if they go in that direction. That's what 572 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 12: I feel. And the Netflix series is doing the same thing. 573 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 12: They're just reaching out and trying to get doubt into 574 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 12: anyone's mind into this kid is a celebrity, he's not 575 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 12: a murderer. And the prosecution band defense good and hopefully 576 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 12: it just doesn't work that people see through this. 577 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 2: Apparently Mangioni is developing a cult following. 578 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,720 Speaker 16: Luigi Mangioni's cult following says his prosecution is part quote 579 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 16: of a corporate backed narrative and that the case against 580 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 16: him is unprecedented. In some online post, Mangioni is praised 581 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 16: as a figure of humanitarianism and anti capitalism. Online post 582 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,760 Speaker 16: ad that Mangioni's prosecution is both unprecedented and a sign 583 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 16: of government overreach. Supporters called for a ban on id's 584 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 16: new documentary Who Is Luigi Mangioni. 585 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 15: Some social media users are using the murder of United 586 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 15: Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson to make a statement by urging 587 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 15: potential jurors in any future trial of Luigi Mangoni to 588 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 15: acquit the alleged murderer even if they think he's guilty. 589 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 15: These so called gen Z influencers are urging other social 590 00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 15: media users to become familiar with jury nullification. This is 591 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 15: when a jury returns a not guilty verdict even when 592 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 15: they believe the person is guilty. 593 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 8: To the people who are going to end up on 594 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 8: that jury for that guy who shot the CEO. 595 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 5: They haven't caught him yet. 596 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 6: Just remember that if all they have is circumstantial evidence 597 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 6: an eyewitness reports, you don't have to make that man guilty. 598 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 2: Okay, talk about a groupie possibly getting on the jury. 599 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 2: That was TikTok user neam h. 600 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 4: And it's not just them. 601 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,400 Speaker 18: Listen, this is this is an attractive you know, we 602 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 18: got to drop the banner, sure why? And it's it 603 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 18: is deeply troubling that we are celebrating this person who's 604 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 18: committed cold blooded murderer. 605 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 2: Whoa, whoa, that's why, CNN Jackie Howard, did I just 606 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 2: hear the anchors say drop the banner so she could get. 607 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 4: A full on body shot to see his chest. 608 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,800 Speaker 8: That's exactly what you heard, Nancy. 609 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 4: Okay, I don't believe. I want to hear it again. 610 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 18: This is this is an attractive you know, we got 611 00:37:58,560 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 18: to drop the banner. 612 00:37:59,280 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 1: That's sure why. 613 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 18: And it is deeply troubling that we are celebrating this 614 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 18: person who's committed cold blooded murder. 615 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 2: That's where our friends at CNN, Daryl, I actually think 616 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 2: she said drop the banner, and you'll see why. 617 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,879 Speaker 4: I think there was a lot of cross talk. Did 618 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 4: you hear that. 619 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 11: I heard it, Nancy, And what bothers me is she 620 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 11: is saying one thing and doing another by dropping the banner. 621 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 11: He is supposed to be endearing to the American public 622 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 11: as a not as a murderer, not as an assassin, 623 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 11: but is a really good guy. So this is troubling 624 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 11: to me to steal her words. 625 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 2: Mangioni's fame is apparently worldwide. 626 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 16: Increased support for Luigi Mangioni and the use of his 627 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 16: image is cropping up in unusual places. Some social media 628 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 16: posts show the accused killer's likeness being featured on birthday cakes. 629 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 16: A German mother surprised her daughter and in the video 630 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 16: she can be seen laughing as she cuts the cake. 631 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 16: Printed on the cake is happy birthday, Malve, Sorry I 632 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 16: can't be at your party this time. According to the 633 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 16: birthday Girl, the cake was a joke. Even more over 634 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 16: the top, A bar recently hosting a Valentine's Day themed 635 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 16: love letter event for the accused killer. 636 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 2: A birthday cake in Germany with Mangioni's face on it. 637 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 2: Two Doctor Kendall Crowns are now chief medical Examiner esteemed 638 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 2: lecturer at Burnett' School of Medicine. Doctor Kendall Crowns. What 639 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 2: did the victim endure as he bled out on the sidewalk? 640 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 2: Do you think you had time to think of as 641 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 2: two little boys? 642 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 17: Because he's not shot in the head, he has a 643 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 17: time to bleed out, and it'll take a few minutes. 644 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 17: He's conscious, he'll be feeling pain, he'll be having trouble breathing, 645 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 17: He'll becoming cold and then slowly passing out and then 646 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:50,479 Speaker 17: going into a coma in dying. 647 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,439 Speaker 4: Hey, you can stick that on your birthday cake. 648 00:39:53,520 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 2: Lady Nancy Gray signing off, goodbye friend, give us