1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: Strange Arrivals is a production of I Heart three D 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: audio for full exposure. Listen with headphones. On the night 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: bridging August thirteenth and fourteenth, nineteen fifty six, a u 4 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: f O encounter involving both radar and eyewitnesses took place. 5 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: This incident occurred in a place you are already familiar with, 6 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: a US controlled British air base on the North Sea 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: coast of England called R. A. F. Bentwaters, twenty four 8 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: years before the Rundelsham Forest incident. The Condon Committee, formed 9 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: in the aftermath of the nineteen sixty six Michigan UFO sightings, 10 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: released a report that included summaries of several difficult to 11 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: explain cases. This nineteen fifty six encounter, labeled case number 12 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: two in the report and known informally as laken Heath 13 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: bent Waters, featured a letter written in the late nineties 14 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: sixties and sent to the committee by a watch supervisor 15 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: at an air traffic control radar site on the night 16 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: in question. The Condon report says that quote one of 17 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: the interesting aspects of this case is the remarkable accuracy 18 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: of the account of the witness as given in the 19 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: letter reproduced above. Which was apparently written from memory twelve 20 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: years after the incident with that recommendation. This is what 21 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: happened that clear night, as excerpted from that letter, read 22 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: by Martin Sweeney. It begins with a call from another 23 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: radar site. Radar operator asked me if we had any 24 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: targets on our scopes. Traveling four thousand miles per hour, 25 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: they said they had watched a target on their scopes. 26 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: Proceed from a point thirty or forty miles east to 27 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: a point forty miles west. Target passed directly over the 28 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: RF station, he said. Tower reported seeing it go by 29 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: and it just appeared to be a blurry light. S 30 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: flying over the base at five thousand feet altitude also 31 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: reported seeing it. That's blurred light passed under his aircraft. 32 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: There was very little or no traffic or targets on 33 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: the scopes. As I recall over, one controller noticed a 34 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: stationary target on the scopes about southwest. The target should 35 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: not have been picked up on the scopes unless it 36 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: was moving, but there it was. They called to another 37 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 1: air traffic control unit, which confirmed that they too had 38 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: the target on their scopes. As we watched, stationary target 39 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: started moving at a speed of four six hundred miles 40 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: per hour in the north northeast direction until it to 41 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: reach a point twenty miles north northwest. Now there's no 42 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: slow starter build up to the speed. It was constant 43 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: from the second it started move until it stopped. The 44 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: target made several changes in location, always in a straight line, 45 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: always at about six hundred miles per hour, and always 46 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: from a standing or stationary point to his next stop 47 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: at constant speed, no build up and speed at all. 48 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: These changes in location varied from eight miles to twenty 49 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: miles in length, no set pattern at any time. This 50 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: continued for a while. After thirty minutes or so, the U. S. 51 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: Air Force called the r A F and they sent 52 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: up an aircraft to investigate. Shortly after, we told the 53 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: intercept aircraft he was one half mile from the UFO 54 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: and it was twelve o'clock from his position, said Roger, 55 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: I got my guns locked on him. Then he paused 56 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: and said, where do you go? Do you still have him? 57 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: We replied, Roger, it appears he's got right behind you, 58 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: but he's still there. There are now two targets, one 59 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: behind the other, same speed, very close. The two separate, 60 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: distinct targets. The first movement by the UFO was so 61 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: swift I missed it entirely, but it was seen by 62 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: the other controllers. However, the fact that it had occurred 63 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: was confirmed by the pilot of the interceptor follow The 64 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: interceptor told us he would try to shake the UFO 65 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: and would try again. Tried everything. He climbed, dived, circled. 66 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: The UFO acted like it was glued right behind him, 67 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 1: always the same distance, very close. The pilot, aware that 68 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: the plane was running low on fuel, returned to base. 69 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 1: A second plane was sent to intercept the object, but 70 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: turned back with a mechanical failure. Target made a couple 71 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: more short moves, then left our radar coverage in a 72 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: northerly direction, speed still at about six hundred miles. We're out. 73 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: We lost target out bound to the north at fifty 74 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: sixty miles, which is normal off aircraft or target is 75 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: at an outdo blue five ft. The Condon Report's final 76 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: word on this encounter reads in conclusion, although conventional or 77 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: natural explanations certainly cannot be ruled out, the probability of 78 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: such seems low in this case, and the probability that 79 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: at least one genuine UFO was involved appears to be 80 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: fairly high. I'm Toby Ball and this is Strange Arrivals 81 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: Episode eight radically different and richer alternatives. The Condon Report 82 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: released in seems to be the turning point for Alan Heinek. 83 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: Heineke had worked as a consultant for the Air Force's 84 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: investigations into UFO sightings for twenty years, and this report 85 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: said that continuing this work would be of no scientific 86 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: or defense value. The subsequent closing of Project Blue Book 87 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: meant that he was no longer beholden to the Air 88 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: Force in any way. He was critical of the Air 89 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: Force's investigation by the time you left now, he was 90 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: there for about twenty years. In the first part of 91 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: his contract, he was convinced there was nothing to it, 92 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: UFO historian jan Aldretch. But as things went along he 93 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: changed his mind. So when your primary advisor changes their 94 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: mind and you don't pay attention to that, that's rather unusual. 95 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: Besides that, he was like the institutional memory for Project 96 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: Blue because people came and it. This is Heinik from 97 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: ninety seven while the Connon Committee was doing its work, 98 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: but before it released its report. He gives us analysis 99 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: of the leading theories about the explanation for UFO sightings, 100 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: there are say, four large categories in which explanations For 101 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: a one, of course, the one used for so long 102 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: as it's all about it, it's still slight probability that 103 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: that might turn out to be the case, but I 104 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: don't think so. Second is it's all there's secret weapons 105 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: being tested by that government, but that seems unlikely to me, 106 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: simply because it's hard to keep a secret for twenty years, 107 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: and one don't test secret devices in seventy countries. There 108 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: is of course extra trust, feel intelligence e p i UM. 109 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: This is a popular one because it's it's amazing how 110 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: the human race wants devoutly to believe and here as 111 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: we're doing to his proper sense, wants to believe even 112 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: possible help from outside what they desperately want to There's 113 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: everything for a scientific father image of this time. Uh. 114 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: And of course the stronomers will go wrong with the 115 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: high idea that there is life very likely right else where. 116 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: It to be consumately preventially to think today that there 117 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: isn't the problems getting here communicating that's a totally different situation. 118 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: And then the fourth possibility is that if we're dealing 119 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: with handed for unknown but perfectly natural, normal physical growth phenomenal, 120 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: and you say, well, how can it be bec never 121 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: hand Just put yourself back a hundred years. Suppose somebody 122 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 1: when some when we were crossing the plane in the 123 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: covered wagon, somebody has googly begun begun to talk about 124 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: nuclear energy. But in those days we didn't even know 125 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: if they didn't even know that Adam Hanndal's let alone 126 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: that you could get energy out of it. People are 127 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: gonna totally incomprehensible thing. People at that time, well, how 128 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: do we know? It's because seven and by the year 129 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 1: twenty five sixty seven we won't know things that will 130 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: make nois today. L This fourth possibility that there are 131 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: frontiers of knowledge which the current state of established science 132 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: wasn't ready to deal with, had intrigued Heinick since his youth. 133 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: Depending on your viewpoint, it either provides an explanation for 134 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: why he was willing to theorize outside the strict boundaries 135 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 1: of more narrow thinkers, or why he wasn't quite as 136 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: rigorous in his scientific thought as he should have been. 137 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: You see, Heineck had a keen interest in modes of 138 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: thinking well outside the scientific norm, and it began when 139 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: he was young. He said that while other boys were 140 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: saving up their money to buy motorcycles, he saved up 141 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: a hundred dollars, which in those days was a huge 142 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: amount of money, and spent it on a book, a 143 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: book of occult knowledge called The Secret Teachings of All Ages, 144 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: which was one of the biggest occult tons of the 145 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: nineteen twenties. My name is Jason Colavito. I am an 146 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: author and researcher who has studied UFOs, the unexplained and 147 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: all manner of weird things for almost twenty years. He 148 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: wanted to know all of the hidden secrets of the world, 149 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: all of the mystical things that the occult groups, the 150 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: secret society's the forbidden knowledge, and he used that to 151 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: create an intellectual world in which there were more things 152 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:30,319 Speaker 1: than merely the material. This was the beginning of an 153 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: interest in the esoteric and paranormal by the man who 154 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: had become the most influential voice on UFO matters, author 155 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: Mark O'Connell. When he got into college, he really started 156 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: reading a lot of the works of Rudolf Steiner, who 157 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: is an esoteric thinker who boy, I don't even know 158 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: where to start with Steiner, but he became fascinated with mystics. Today, 159 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: Rudolf Steiner is probably best known for founding steiner Waldorf Schools, 160 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: which provide progressive education, stressing quote universal human values, educational pluralism, 161 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: and meaningful teaching and learning opportunities. But Steiner was a 162 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: wide ranging thinker and his works were not confined to 163 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: the realm of education. Well, Rudolf Steiner was an Austrian 164 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: sort of polymath. He was born in the sort of 165 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: late nineteenth century and he died nineteen. For the first 166 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: sort of half of his career he was more or 167 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: less the typical German intellectual, German speaking, you know, a 168 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: language intellectual, and he became well known as a scholar 169 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: of the German poet Gerta. Well, my name is Gary 170 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: lachman Um, a writer about we can say, the history 171 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: of the Western esoteric tradition. And that's a bit of 172 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: a mouthful, but esoteric means inner and sort of about 173 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: the inner teaching of kind of the mainstream religious teachings, 174 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: and also about the inner world or inner being, and 175 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: that includes different histories of different movements and biographies people 176 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: of Rudolf Steiner and Carl Jung and Alistair Crowley and 177 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: ages ago In a previous life, I I used to 178 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: be a rock musician back in the late seventies by 179 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: rock musician Gary Means. He was the basis for Blondie. 180 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: In his childhood, Steiner experienced visions and instances of seeing 181 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: ghosts or spirits or things like that. And in his 182 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: forties he sort of came out of the closet about that, 183 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: and um, this is when he began this kind of 184 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: second career as a spiritual teacher, leader of a kind 185 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: of spiritual movement that he called anthroposophy. But anthrow means 186 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: man in Greek and Sophia. Sophia is wisdom, so sort 187 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: of the wisdom of man, and it is basically a 188 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: kind of spiritual teaching about this spiritual existence that we 189 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: have alongside the physical one that we had of. Steiner's 190 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: conception of anthroposophy was connected to the work he did 191 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: on the poet Geta's Scientific Writings, in which he described 192 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: a method he devised to use his imagination to study nature, 193 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: for instance, the way that plants grow. He was able 194 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: to train his imagination to be able to in his 195 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: way when he was observing a plant to be able 196 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: to see it through all the processes of its growth, 197 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: so from when it went from a seed to just 198 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: you know, sprout and then actually growing and bearing fruit 199 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: and all that. And Gerta was convinced that he had 200 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: somehow was able to see this kind of eternal plant 201 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: that was behind the actual physical one that was moving 202 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: through time. And Steiner picked up on this when he 203 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: was doing this work on Gerta's scientific writings, and he 204 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: combined this kind of methodology that's Gerta had developed, this 205 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: kind of way of disciplining his imagination to see to 206 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: see this with this kind of inherent, innate kind of 207 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: psychic ability. Had Steiner became a very popular teacher of 208 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: this type of in quotes science feartual science was this 209 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: way that he had a whole methodology of following these 210 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: these practices that he got from going to and he 211 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: barely ran with it. So it went from into seeing 212 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: him to pass lives and into the history of the cosmos, 213 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: and I mean it's quite grandiose um. And he had 214 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: a grandiose vision of human evolution and the evolution of 215 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: the cosmos and all that, but fundamentally it was a 216 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: way of training your imagination to be able to see 217 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: this kind of what do you want to say it 218 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: some phenomena, and not only in the time and place 219 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: that you see it now, but in its full kind 220 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: of being, in connection to the rest of things around 221 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: it and all that. While in college, Heinick became interested 222 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: in Steiner and other spiritual and esoteric writers again Mark O'Connell. 223 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: During his college days he was spending a lot of long, 224 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: lonely nights at the Yerkes Observatory in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, 225 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: looking at stars, looking basically into the depths of eternity 226 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: through this telescope at Yurkey's Observatory, And in the meantime 227 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: he's reading the writings of these esoteric thinkers who are 228 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: talking about well, Sninder like to talk about something he 229 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: called the super sensible realm. Some of us can perceive 230 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: it now and then, and we can actually train ourselves 231 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: to be able to experience these these other dimensions of reality. 232 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: This was definitely something that was always part of Heineck's thinking, 233 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: and I think it had a lot to do with 234 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: why he was willing to consider the reality of the 235 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: UFO phenomena. As the Condon Committees worked out under way, 236 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: Heineck met another UFO researcher who had a similar interest 237 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: in the occult and paranormal, a man named Jacques Valet. 238 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: Valet is the model for the French scientist in the 239 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: film Close Encounters of the Third Kind. He is a 240 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: longtime UFO researcher who, in addition to UFOs, also researched 241 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: other paranormal subjects, including visions of the Virgin Mary and 242 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: the practice of remote viewing. He eventually asserted that UFOs 243 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: weren't extraterrestrial, but in fact represent a quote previously unrecognized phenomena, 244 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: and that their ability quote to manipulate space and time 245 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: suggests radically different and richer alternatives, but that came later. 246 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: Jason Cola Vito in six Jallen Heineck and shock Bill 247 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: At we're traveling to Colorado in order to participate in 248 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: the Condon Committee investigation into UFOs sponsored by the University 249 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: of Colorado in the Air Force. The two of them 250 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: were there to provide their testimony and their evidence to 251 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: the committee as they were looking for the scientific explanation 252 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: for UFOs, and it was increasingly obvious that the committee 253 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: was going to determine that there was nothing much to 254 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: the UFO phenomenon in terms of anything extraterrestrial or ultraterrestrial. 255 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: But that conclusion didn't sit very well with either Heineck 256 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: or Valet, and on the way back from Colorado, Heineck 257 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: confessed to Valet for the first time that he was 258 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: not entirely the materialist scientist that he pretended to be 259 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: in public. But he told Valet that he actually had 260 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: these mystical occult ideas, that he was deeply interested in 261 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: things like her meticism, and while as a scientist he 262 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: followed the scientific method and proposed scientific ways exploring UFOs, 263 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: he had always that sort of mystical idea in the 264 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: background that they could be something more than material science 265 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:57,479 Speaker 1: could explain. Depending on your viewpoint, this is either an 266 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: unorthodox tool that makes him a more insightful thinker about 267 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: strange phenomena, or an indication that Heinech wasn't as strict 268 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: with his scientific reasoning as he needed to be given 269 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: the subject matter. Regardless, as the Defense Department officially shut 270 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: down their investigation into the UFO question, Heinich was a 271 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: public face of Flying Saucer investigation, and he had a 272 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: new message. After the break, we've been looking at Heineck's 273 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: career through the framework of the archetypal story of the 274 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: hero's journey. The end of Project Blue Book marks his 275 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: emergence back into the normal world with a new message 276 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: about UFOs. His first book was The UFO Experience, and 277 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: that came out I believe in two somewhere right around there. 278 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: And yeah, over all these years of studying UFOs, Heinek 279 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: had always been thinking in terms of how do we 280 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,959 Speaker 1: classify these events? Because for all their similarities, there are 281 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: also some major differences in these different events that keep 282 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,719 Speaker 1: on being reported. So how can we categorize those? How 283 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: can we organize those to try to make some sense 284 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: of them? And his first attempt at that was pretty simple. 285 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: He broke UFO sightings down into three simple categories. One 286 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: was daylight discs, and that was when people reported seeing 287 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: what they believed to be a solid object in in 288 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: broad daylight during the day in the sky. The second 289 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 1: was nocturnal meandering lights. That's pretty obvious, and then the 290 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: third category was visual slash radar sightings. This type of 291 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 1: sighting was the most intriguing to Henick because the radar 292 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: reading would corrob rate the eyewitness account. But this wasn't 293 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: the final form for Heine's classification scheme. As time went on, 294 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: he further refined them and came up with his close 295 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: encounter system, not least because of the Steven Spielberg movie 296 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Heine's close encounter system 297 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: is the best known method for classifying UFO sightings. Close encounters, 298 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: by definition, had to be something that occurred within about 299 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: five yards of the witness. Okay, so that's what separates 300 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: these new categories from the original three. In heineck system, 301 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: there were three kinds of close encounters, so close encounter. 302 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: The first kind involves a visual contact, just a sighting 303 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: of an unusual object in the sky within about five yards. 304 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: Heineck felt that at that distance a witness could make 305 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: out the size, the shape, the contours, the outline of 306 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: whatever it was they were looking at. A close encounter 307 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: of the second kind added the element that the UFO 308 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 1: had to have some type of physical effect on its 309 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: surroundings or on the observer. The classic example is of 310 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: the car stalling or the radio going out, or possibly 311 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: vegetation is burned, as in the Lonnies of Moor case. 312 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: But of course the most famous is the close encounter 313 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: of the third kind. Close encounter of the third kind 314 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: really up to the anti because now it includes occupants 315 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: or beings or creatures that are associated with the UFO 316 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: as part of the event. It doesn't necessarily mean that 317 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: the witness interacts with those creatures, but the creatures are present, 318 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: the creatures are reported in proximity to the UFO, if 319 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: not inside the UFO. So those were the three categories. 320 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: A couple other categories have been added by other people 321 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: since then. I usually disregard those because those are just 322 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: basically like escalating levels of human alien contact, and that 323 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: just takes the whole thing in a completely different direction 324 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: than Heineke ever intended. The term close encounters of the 325 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 1: fourth kind has been used as a designation for alien abduction. 326 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: After that, it gets even more bizarre. A former physician 327 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: and transcendental meditation teacher and current u apologist named Stephen 328 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: Greer promotes the concept of close encounters of the fifth kind. 329 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: Author of They Are Already Here, UFO Culture and Why 330 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: We See Saucers, Sarah Skulls He has made a name 331 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: for himself with the specific kind of contact with aliens 332 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: called close encounters of the fifth kind, which is essentially 333 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: a kind of contact with aliens and UFOs that you, 334 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,719 Speaker 1: as a human being on earth, try to initiate, like 335 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: you kind of send your intention and receptive nous to 336 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: that experience out into the universe somehow, and then a 337 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: phenomenon is supposed to sense that and and appear to you. 338 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 1: So this is getting well beyond witnessing lights in the 339 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: sky or physical craft or what have you. But back 340 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: to Heinich scale, Heinech was. Heinick was always very uncomfortable 341 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: with close encounters of the third kind, because anytime you 342 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: start talking about occupants of the UFO, you start talking 343 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: about creatures. It just raises all sorts of questions that 344 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: are much harder to deal with than anything in a 345 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: close encounter the first or second kind. But they're the 346 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: most dramatic and of course the most famous. Heinich famously 347 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: appeared in Steven Spielberg's Close Encounters of the Third Kind 348 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: as well, basically himself, but in the real world it 349 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: was the less dramatic cases that had his attention. He really, 350 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 1: really enjoyed the close encounters of the second kind cases 351 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: because he felt they had the most scientific value because 352 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: they left behind physical evidence. There was some sort of 353 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: physical effect left on our environment from this object. And 354 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: like I said, those could be health issues with the witness, 355 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: It could be all sorts of different things. But while 356 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: accounts of sightings involving UFO occupants troubled Henich, this was 357 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: not an indication that his mind was closing two ideas 358 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: out of the scientific mainstream, to put it mildly. In fact, 359 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: he continued to be intrigued by new paranormal claims, including 360 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 1: those of Robert Monroe, who was an advocate for the 361 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: reality of out of body experiences. Well. UH, an out 362 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: of body experience is a state of being, a state 363 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: of awareness, a state of action, UH, separate and apart 364 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: from the physical body. UH. About twenty of the population 365 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: throughout the world, I guess has this spontaneously take place, 366 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: that they're aware of UM at least once in their lifetime. 367 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: And it wasn't just Monroe. Heinek became interested in the 368 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: work of a guy named Ted Sirios who claimed to 369 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: be able to take psychic photos with his camera so 370 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: he could like, concentrate on prehistoric times, and somehow, click click, 371 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: his camera would take a picture of a dinosaur. Sirios 372 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 1: used a small paper tube that he called a gizmo, 373 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: which he said concentrated his thoughts to create the images. 374 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: Later he was exposed as a fraud. He would slip something, 375 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: probably a picture, into the tube before the photo was snapped. 376 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: This was what created the image, not his psychic powers. 377 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: Iik was interested in a lot of these things, which 378 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: drove his friends nuts because they felt like it detracted 379 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: from his credibility, and I'm sure it did, But to me, 380 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: I took it as a sign that Heinich was simply 381 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: interested in exploring different states of consciousness that he then 382 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: might be able to use to make sense of the 383 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: UFO experience. And now we're getting into the seventies and 384 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: the eighties, he's you know, he's been dealing with and 385 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: thinking about the UFO phenomenon for decades. At this point. 386 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: He always thought that the extraterrestrial hypothesis was possible, but 387 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: he was never fully committed to that. The extraterrestrial hypothesis 388 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: is as it sounds, the theory that UFOs are vehicles 389 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: from outer space. It is the most popular theory, but 390 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: not the only one. He saw it as only one 391 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: possible explanation for the UFO phenomenon. He was willing to 392 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: look into psychic things. He was willing to consider that 393 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: UFOs maybe in part a psychic phenomenon, not that they 394 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: were creations of our minds, but that whatever was manifesting 395 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 1: its self in the UFO was doing it directly into 396 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: our minds, not necessarily through our eyes or our ears, 397 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: but directly into our minds. In that sense, Heineck thought 398 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: they might be psychic occurrences. This is heinik in. It 399 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: could very well be that the whole UFO phenomenon is 400 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: a signal, an index, another kind of property of the 401 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: natural universe that we as yet had not recognized. Then 402 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 1: I'd be on that if by go any farther, it 403 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: will be a pure science fiction. Jason Cola, Vito and 404 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: he and Jacques l A over the succeeding decade came 405 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: to a sort of rough consensus that flying saucers may 406 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: not be physical vehicles at all, that they might in 407 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: fact the psychic phenomenon a phenomenon. He was particularly interested 408 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 1: in the idea that UFOs were related to pull to Geist's, 409 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: and he said several times in the nineties seventies that 410 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: UFOs had a very close connection to the poulter Geist phenomenon, 411 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: and if we could understand what made for poulter Geist's 412 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: made these ghosts, we would also understand what made flying saucers. 413 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: And between the two of them, the idea sort of 414 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: came together that flying saucers were coming from another dimension, 415 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 1: that they were a semi supernatural phenomenon, and that we 416 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: couldn't entirely understand them through science itself, but through a 417 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: mystical means of knowledge, And the idea emerged from that 418 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: that if you could fully understand the UFOs, that by 419 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: exploring flying saucers, you would see a new, better, grander 420 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: science behind the facade of the material world, towards something 421 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: that's more psychic, more spiritual, even something that's approached almost 422 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: the divine. In Heineken Valet co authored a book titled 423 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: The Edge of Reality, a Progress Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, 424 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: which begins quote the UFO phenomenon calls upon us to 425 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: extend our imaginations as we have never done before. It 426 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: continues quote in short, to approach boldly the edge of 427 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: our accepted reality and by mentally battering at these forbidding boundaries, 428 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: perhaps open up entirely new vistas. He also entertained the 429 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: possibility that these things were interdimensional in nature, that they 430 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: were visiting us from another dimension, and he called these metaterrestrials, 431 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: which I always liked that term metaterrestrial instead of extraterrestrial. 432 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: So yeah, Heineck really became enamored with a lot of 433 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: these kind of different approaches to reality. But as I said, 434 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: I think my read on that was that he was 435 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: simply trying to consider different states of consciousness and how 436 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: they might play into the UFO phenomena, maybe even create 437 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: the UFO phenomena in the edge of reality. Heineck and 438 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: Valet right quote the solution may lie in the parapsychological realm, 439 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: the means of getting information. I mean, this is a 440 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: startling statement from the man who was considered the leading 441 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: scientists studying UFOs. If science is inadequate to address the 442 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: question of flying saucers, what are we left with spiritualism metaphysics? 443 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: Is it surprising that the Condon Committee didn't see further 444 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: study as being scientifically useful And this is what makes 445 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: Heinick such an interesting character in the UFO story. He 446 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: seems to embody the tension between people who want to 447 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: use science to get to the bottom of uf sightings 448 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: and people who feel that science is too insular are 449 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: too limited to properly address the issue. The fact that 450 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: he really was a hardcore scientist. He only went where 451 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: the facts led him. He would never go one step 452 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: beyond what the facts and what the data would tell him. 453 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: And yet at the same time, he's fascinated by people 454 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: like Robert Monroe who have out of FADI experiences. He's 455 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: fascinated people like Ted Sirios who claimed to be able 456 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: to make psychic photos. So there's this dichotomy between Heinech 457 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: the scientists and Heinech the sort of want to be 458 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: mystic or at least a guy who is at least 459 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: interested in at least dipping his toe into those waters. 460 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: And all of this, I think is in the hopes 461 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: that it can just lead him to greater understanding of 462 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: reality of the universe, I suppose. So where does this 463 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: leave us as we look at the folklore developing around UFOs. Well, 464 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: the one sustained effort undertaken during the middle of the 465 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: twentieth century to try to determine the truth behind UFO sightings. 466 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: Project Blue Book ended with the Condon Committee's conclusion, which 467 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: was seconded by the National Academies of Science, that there 468 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: was no indication that these things that people saw in 469 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: the sky were of extraterrestrial origin, and that further study 470 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: would have no scientific value. At the same time, who 471 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: have Project Blue Books consulting scientists undergoing a change in 472 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: perspective during his two decades investigating encounters from dismissive skeptic 473 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: to believer that something is going on. This perspective is 474 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: complicated by Heineck's keen interests in the paranormal and belief 475 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: that stepping outside the bounds of established science is likely 476 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: necessary to find answers, and it is this lack of 477 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: resolution that creates the space in which the folklore could 478 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: flourish and expand. With the end of the official government 479 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: inquiry into UFOs, the narrative switches to other actors in 480 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: the story, to civilian researchers, popular culture, and government disinformation agents. 481 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: Next time on Strange Arrivals. Strange Arrivals is a production 482 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: of I Heart, three D Audio and Grimm and Mild 483 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,239 Speaker 1: from Aaron Manky. This episode was written and hosted by 484 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: Toby Ball and produced by Miranda Hawkins and Josh Thame, 485 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: with executive producers Alex Williams, Matt Frederick, and Aaron Manky, 486 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,959 Speaker 1: and special thanks to Wendy Connors, creator of the Faded 487 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: Discs archive of UFO related audio on archive dot org. 488 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: Learn more about Strange Arrivals over at grimm and mild 489 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: dot com, and find more podcasts from my heart Radio 490 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: by visiting the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 491 00:33:49,240 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows