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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this spinoff episode of

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Speaker 1: The Daily Zeitgeist the Iconograph. Instead of looking at uh, actually,

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Speaker 1: I gotta do it, You're Daily's eitegeist cool.

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Speaker 2: Through current events.

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Speaker 1: We're looking at it through the lens of the powerful

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Speaker 1: pop cultural cork cruxes that are our icon icon. We

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Speaker 1: use these characters to create meaning, to build identity, to

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Speaker 1: give our sleep paralysis demons a cool new sci fi look,

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Speaker 1: to create a potential horror movie enemy that in a

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Speaker 1: room with no weapons, I'm pretty sure I could beat

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Speaker 1: the shit out of That's right. We're talking about the

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Speaker 1: grays default alien face on every the Truth is out

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Speaker 1: There T shirt, every trippy dorm room I want to believe, poster,

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Speaker 1: every item sold within the city limits of Roswell, New Mexico.

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Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to be joined by a Gray in his

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Speaker 1: own right, my co host, mister Miles.

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Speaker 2: No, No, I'm I'm again burning.

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Speaker 3: This has been one of the burning questions I've had

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Speaker 3: about this.

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Speaker 2: Why gray? Why gray? Because their skin is their skin

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Speaker 2: is gray.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's purely just that it's not always great, Like

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Speaker 1: when you do a Google image search of the alien face,

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Speaker 1: it is always the same design but a lot of

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Speaker 1: times it's green. I'd say it's more often green.

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Speaker 3: But but I'm saying that the I guess etymology here

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Speaker 3: is that?

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Speaker 4: Why?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: It was something on Scientific Racist at the same time, like,

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Speaker 1: let's we go back skin what color Miles in our

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Speaker 1: third seat, We're fortunate to be joined by someone who

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Speaker 1: designed scary monsters for a living, The best selling author

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Speaker 1: of John Dies at the End the Zoe Ash series,

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Speaker 1: one of the co founders of Cracked, and one of

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Speaker 1: my co hosts of the Cracked podcast Back of the Day.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's Jason par Ji.

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Speaker 4: If you've got the bout there that I don't know

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Speaker 4: where they're like, well, where did he wind up? I

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Speaker 4: now have the same job as the wrizzler, I mean

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Speaker 4: influencer mostly make my living. That's where I've landed.

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Speaker 2: That's your main thing.

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Speaker 4: You'll need to tell me that it's shameful.

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Speaker 3: Do you have like a trademark thing too, like you know,

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Speaker 3: like just like about that.

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Speaker 4: Because I knew what I was doing, I would have

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Speaker 4: you would have a trademark thing something that sticks in

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Speaker 4: the brain. I would have a big waxed mustache or yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I found the stupid hats.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Jason, you need to get a stupid hat because

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Speaker 1: stupidly tiny one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we I.

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Speaker 1: Really think that Sherlock Holmes and Santa both punching well

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Speaker 1: above their weight because of hat stuff. And you point

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Speaker 1: out in your you you kind of did a pass

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Speaker 1: of this doc yourself and point out that Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: also like seems to have designed himself as an icon

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Speaker 1: also with a big stupid hat. There's something about a hat.

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Speaker 1: You just you just need to get a dumb hat.

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Speaker 3: Because if you can define everything just from your head, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: then all bets are off and anything your money.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, I do think just real quick, like

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Speaker 1: when designing a scary monster, which, like the gray is

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Speaker 1: depending on how you feel. Like, I kind of the

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Speaker 1: part of me that wants to believe wants to believe

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Speaker 1: that they exist because I want them to be like

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Speaker 1: a godlike and like, it's the part of me that

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Speaker 1: you used to want to believe in, like religion when

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Speaker 1: I was a kid. I think that's where like my

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Speaker 1: wanting to believe in aliens comes from. But they are

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Speaker 1: at their core a scary monster, and I do want

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Speaker 1: like I think I've always found it interesting that zombies

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Speaker 1: for the most part, are slow, and they're they're such

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Speaker 1: a popular they're so easy to defeat, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: just like you just outrun them. And I wonder if

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Speaker 1: grays also benefit from whatever that is that it's just

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Speaker 1: like I could. On the one hand, yes, they're very

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Speaker 1: like powerful and mysterious and interesting looking smart. On the

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Speaker 1: other hand, if it was just me versus them, I

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Speaker 1: could pick him up and punt him.

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Speaker 3: You could fold You could break an alien in half

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Speaker 3: with your bare hands, and I think that's But isn't

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Speaker 3: that kind of the deal, right, It's like it's freaky

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Speaker 3: because they sort of represent this like other phase where

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Speaker 3: like their heads are so big because they're fucking you

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Speaker 3: up with their brain, and they're technological know how because

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Speaker 3: they've moved beyond barbarian fisticuffs like on this plane.

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Speaker 1: And yet I still could toss that little fucker, Oh yeah.

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Speaker 4: Out of an I'm gonna let you. I'm gonna let

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Speaker 4: you in on a trade secret and you can't tell anybody.

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Speaker 2: Monster design, listeners, listeners, plug your ears.

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Speaker 4: Okay, all monsters and all horror is just wish fulfillment. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: this is what we wish people looked like. And A

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Speaker 4: great example of this was from the pandemic, because I

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Speaker 4: don't know if you remember, but back in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 4: there was a pandemic that went around called the COVID

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Speaker 4: nineteen pandemic, and YouTuber Lindsay Ellis said this. She made

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Speaker 4: a fantastic point. I think it was in one of

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Speaker 4: her videos. She says that in the worlds of like

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Speaker 4: zombie fiction these days, we call zombies the infected. We started,

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Speaker 4: we've decided it was a disease along oh yea, And

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Speaker 4: she's like, look at how people react to a real pandemic,

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Speaker 4: where the challenge is the people that get sick. You've

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Speaker 4: got to care for them. You've got poor resources. Where

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Speaker 4: a zombie pandemic, think about what wish fulfillment that is,

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Speaker 4: where the infected just got to shoot in the head,

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Speaker 4: like how much? And we act like that would be

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Speaker 4: bad news, Like, oh no, I've.

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Speaker 2: Not my neighbor who I hate.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, not not everyone. Will I have to just go

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Speaker 4: out and do a mass shooting every day just to

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Speaker 4: get to the grocery store. How terrible.

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Speaker 1: The one thing that's missing from like zombie movies is

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Speaker 1: the giddiness.

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Speaker 4: Booker's head below every horror villain is some version of that. Like,

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Speaker 4: for example, when talk people talk about AI taking over,

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Speaker 4: they'll have an image and their article of like the

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Speaker 4: T eight hundred from Terminator. It's like if the if

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Speaker 4: it was just a guy, a metal guy with a rifle,

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Speaker 4: so much easier than It's like, no, it's software that

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Speaker 4: runs everything. It's invisible and you don't even know what

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Speaker 4: it's doing. It's like no, no, no, give me the

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Speaker 4: horror version, because that's the thing that is designed to

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Speaker 4: ultimately be defeated by a hero.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, let's talk Grays because I think this particular

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Speaker 1: I kind of gets into kind of one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I think it's interesting to talk about icons in

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Speaker 1: a show about the zeitgeist. I think we're going to

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Speaker 1: find that our shared consciousness kind of designed these guys

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Speaker 1: and did kind of did a great job. You know.

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Speaker 1: We talked in the last week's Stephen King episode about

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Speaker 1: like how he's good at finding these fears lurking in

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Speaker 1: our unconscious and like bringing them out. But I feel

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Speaker 1: like the Grays are a monster that doesn't even have

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Speaker 1: a skilled writer to pull the character out. It just

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Speaker 1: kind of births itself out of multiple people, multiple places,

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Speaker 1: multiple hypnosis assisted testimonies, and kind of like we saw

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Speaker 1: with Santa, there's no one author. It just keeps iterating

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Speaker 1: until it lands on the version that is iconic. And

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Speaker 1: unlike Santa and Sherlock, the Grays don't even have a

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Speaker 1: stupid hat and a pipe to add to the costume.

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Speaker 1: But it is just like kind of perfectly designed. It's well,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about there's a lot of different iterations of

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Speaker 1: a aliens. One of the reasons that we have the

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Speaker 1: Grays is because they are just like the perfect alien.

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Speaker 1: Like all these other options just are missteps, you know.

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Speaker 1: They they do something where it's just like, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: kind of stupid, or that one's already been taken by,

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Speaker 1: like the Lord of the Rings. A big chunk of

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Speaker 1: especially alien sightings in the UK are these Nordic aliens

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Speaker 1: that just look like the elves from Lord of the Rings.

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Speaker 1: But like, obviously, you know, you can't that can't be

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Speaker 1: what you get when you google alien because then it's

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Speaker 1: too confusing, right you know, But yeah, these guys. It's

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Speaker 1: the Halloween thing that we talk about. Like, if you

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Speaker 1: are going to dress as a Halloween costume, that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things we've said from the first episode of

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Speaker 1: the show, Jason, that our rubric for like is someone

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Speaker 1: an icon that we can cover on this show is

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Speaker 1: do they make sense as a whole aween costume?

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Speaker 4: Right? Yeah, And you talked about Donald Trump, but also

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Speaker 4: think about somebody new to Christianity trying to go into

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Speaker 4: the Bible and find the devil in there and find

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Speaker 4: where you find a description of him wearing red and

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Speaker 4: having horns and a case and with a little pitchfork.

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Speaker 4: That that's a Halloween costume. That's not from the Bible.

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Speaker 4: That's that's that is something that was developed so you

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Speaker 4: could dresses that for Halloween. But if you, I think

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Speaker 4: all over the world, if you gave kids some crayons

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Speaker 4: and said draw me the devil, they're going to pick

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Speaker 4: up the red right right. Yeah, he's even got the

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Speaker 4: head gear, he got the horns to mark him as something.

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Speaker 4: But he's also is a person. And that's the thing

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Speaker 4: about the grades that's very easy to miss is that

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Speaker 4: they're ninety nine percent human. There's still two arms, two legs, bipedal, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and sline mold that kind of just hissed that you

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Speaker 4: that would not be iconic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, yeah, the Arrival aliens are super fun.

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Speaker 4: There.

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Speaker 1: There's so many fun aliens throughout, Like, you know what's

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Speaker 1: interesting that we're We're going to get to I guess later,

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Speaker 1: or we can just talk about it now. But the

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Speaker 1: Grays do appear in close encounters of the third kind,

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Speaker 1: like the Steven Spielberg Alien movie, but the one that

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Speaker 1: becomes way more iconic is e T like a couple

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Speaker 1: of years later. But then in terms of being the

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Speaker 1: overall generic alien, it's the Grays.

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Speaker 3: Because the ones in the Close Encounter are sort of

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Speaker 3: more they're like great, just yeah, they were like thin bodied,

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Speaker 3: big head.

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Speaker 2: They're great. They look a lot like the Grays. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: every the time you say this, I'm like my grandmother.

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Speaker 2: It's so weird to keep hearing this in this context.

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Speaker 2: I'm yes, the aliens.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're I think that's a good way

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Speaker 1: of putting it. Though. You ask any eight year old

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Speaker 1: to draw you an alien, they're going.

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Speaker 2: To sketch a head. Yeah, guys.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, triangle shaped head, pointy chin, two huge like wrap

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Speaker 1: around oakley, black eyes, kind of two slits for nostrils,

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Speaker 1: and tiny mouth. There's other things that people talk about

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Speaker 1: being universal, but they really aren't. Like those are the

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Speaker 1: main things. It's that head shape, it's that eye shape,

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Speaker 1: it's the little nostrils and the tiny mouth everything else.

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Speaker 2: I feel like kind of underdeveloped arms and legs, you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean? They don't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we as arms and legs for sure.

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Speaker 3: Hit yeah, yeah, I got to hit my mac rolls

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Speaker 3: you know where I can get some spin it show Jesus.

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Speaker 1: But we probably should just say up top. Because I

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Speaker 1: have long identified as someone who wants to believe. I

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Speaker 1: do not think we have any strong evidence. Uh, if

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Speaker 1: we were, you know, heading into my adult life, I

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Speaker 1: would say, if we were ranking the conspiracy theories that

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Speaker 1: are most likely to be true, from like ghosts and

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Speaker 1: monsters and like bigfoots to like Illuminati stuff, pedophile cults,

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Speaker 1: and aliens, I probably would have like put aliens somewhere

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Speaker 1: like under the eyes wide shut colts, but like over

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Speaker 1: all the rest of them, because it just seems mathematically plausible.

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Speaker 1: It's I mean, we just saw this with Obama when

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Speaker 1: he was asked if aliens were real, and he was like,

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Speaker 1: they're real, but they're not under area fifty one and

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Speaker 1: assumed we all wouldn't freak out because what he was saying,

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Speaker 1: in his own kind of vulcan way, is like, well,

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Speaker 1: we all understand mathematically there's probably life out there somewhere

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Speaker 1: in the vastness of the universe, right, But the more

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Speaker 1: you look at the evidence, the harder it is, too.

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Speaker 1: Like it's not the most evidence based community. I would

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Speaker 1: say ufology.

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Speaker 3: I mean, what about those people that got abducted. You know,

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Speaker 3: I gotta believe the people in the taboids. They can't

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Speaker 3: really be histrionic and looking for attention.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, as a kid, I was huge into UFO stuff,

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Speaker 4: and I was in my early high school years. I

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Speaker 4: read all of those books because there was a wave

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Speaker 4: of books, one called Communion by Whitley Streeber. He was

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Speaker 4: another guy that said he got abducted by Grays. There's

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Speaker 4: read all the books about the ancient Aliens. I was

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Speaker 4: read all the books about how the Aliens built the Pyramids.

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Speaker 4: When I was a kid, I loved that stuff, and

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Speaker 4: it was only I think by the time I got

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Speaker 4: to college, I was so disillusioned with how horrible the

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Speaker 4: quality of the evidence was. A how quickly these people

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Speaker 4: would just glom onto any like any scammer, even people

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Speaker 4: that acknowledge it was a scam. They would come out

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Speaker 4: later and be like, well, he fake faked some of

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Speaker 4: those photos, but we heard the other photos are genuinely right.

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Speaker 4: You want to believe this so bad because your own

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Speaker 4: life is so you're so dissatisfied with it. You want

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Speaker 4: something else to be out there. And I found that

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Speaker 4: every time somebody claimed it got point where everybody who

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Speaker 4: claimed to have gotten abducted had previously were super into UFOs,

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Speaker 4: like prior to getting abducted. Right, boy, that's weird that

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Speaker 4: you think aliens are seeking out the love.

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Speaker 1: Aliens love aliens. Yeah, they love fans. Let's eat off

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Speaker 1: this stuff. Yeah, yeah, go out and find their fans.

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Speaker 4: And then you just see how they're Once an element

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Speaker 4: of abductions gets into the archetype of an abduction, it's

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Speaker 4: now and everybody's so once once they decided, well you

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Speaker 4: know what they're doing. They're they're breeding us because they

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Speaker 4: they need our seamen to create a race of super

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Speaker 4: human alien hybrids, like one that's your fetish they introduced

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Speaker 4: into but now that's everybody. It's like, oh yeah too.

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Speaker 4: They put that on my penis because they said, my uh,

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Speaker 4: my sperm was the strongest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, you came after the fact I was

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Speaker 3: covered in semen in the forest because of the aliens

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Speaker 3: that were there.

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Speaker 2: That's what it was.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, wait were there was there something like this too?

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Speaker 3: Like hasn't there always been like this throughout civilization of

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Speaker 3: people being taken or visit Like, wasn't it like fairies

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Speaker 3: before aliens?

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Speaker 2: People were like so, like.

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Speaker 3: We've always we've always had this like sort of gravitational

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Speaker 3: pull towards like and the monsters selected me to take

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Speaker 3: me away to their magical place.

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Speaker 2: And I'm the only one that knows.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just demons or fairies, and there was

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Speaker 1: usually like some sexual element to it.

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Speaker 2: The witches took me.

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Speaker 1: Out, and.

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Speaker 4: Man, I will yeah it was. I didn't want this

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Speaker 4: to happen. They just said that I was the the

286
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Speaker 4: ultimate stallion that they were going to use as a

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Speaker 4: stud horse, red the ultimate people.

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Speaker 2: I tell you, man, I would never do that again. Like,

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Speaker 2: why are you fanning yourself, sir?

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Speaker 1: They've been looking far and why for someone with swimmers

291
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Speaker 1: as strong as mine? Yeah, so I will say, coming

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Speaker 1: into my you know, alien belief, I think the two

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Speaker 1: pieces of evidence that I had heard that I was like, damn,

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Speaker 1: that's intriguing. One was that they there are these like

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Speaker 1: descriptions of aliens throughout history that match the description of

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Speaker 1: the Grays, and that doesn't seem to be true. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, early alien sightings, as we'll get to, look

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Speaker 1: like total shit, Like it is really a process of

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Speaker 1: design where they like slowly kind of alien abductees slowly

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Speaker 1: kind of moved in on this design that we're now

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Speaker 1: familiar with. But there's some from like the fifties that

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Speaker 1: it's like they just look like things from the cutting

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Speaker 1: room floor of like Batman villain design, Like there's one

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Speaker 1: that's just a button with legs, giant button with legs

305
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,160
Speaker 1: underneath it, so.

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Speaker 2: One of those Italian brain rot characters.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then the other thing is that so many of

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Speaker 1: the sightings look alike and I was, wow, like how

311
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Speaker 1: could it be? But I think we'll find out. It's

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Speaker 1: just they're kind of open to suggestion, and that there

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Speaker 1: is this enormously there's a couple enormously influential things. There's

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Speaker 1: the case of Betty and Barney Hill, and there's also

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Speaker 1: a TV show that happened right before they were abducted

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Speaker 1: that kind of influenced how people viewed aliens, but like

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Speaker 1: a lot of the UFO stuff from the early twentieth

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Speaker 1: century or you know, like right before people started having

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Speaker 1: reporting alien abductions, people were reporting UFOs, but they just

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Speaker 1: automatically assumed was like, man, the Russians really have some

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Speaker 1: crazy shit going.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: It just like changed based on like what the anxiety

324
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Speaker 1: is and what people wanted to believe.

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Speaker 3: Right, I mean, yeah, is there something to also just

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Speaker 3: like if because of like the monoculture at the time,

327
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Speaker 3: it's like, once someone says the thing, then everyone's like, Okay,

328
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Speaker 3: so that's how it happens and that's real. Like I

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Speaker 3: feel like the same way when I first heard about

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Speaker 3: Fire in the Sky, people were like, it's.

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Speaker 2: Based on a real story. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Man. As a kid, I was like, ad, they passed

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Speaker 1: a fucking wide detector, bro, I know that was the

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00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 1: shit that man.

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Speaker 2: Exactly where I was like.

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Speaker 3: And then so that after seeing that, I really didn't

337
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Speaker 3: want to see the movie because I'm like, this is

338
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Speaker 3: a documentary and I don't know if I can encounter

339
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 3: the horrifying shit in there. I emember seeing like this

340
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,639
Speaker 3: is so fucked up. This is the last fucking thing

341
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Speaker 3: I ever want to happen to me. But it feels

342
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 3: like so much of my idea of it has been

343
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Speaker 3: fed by someone being like this thing's based on a

344
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Speaker 3: true story. Like I remember reading like behold a pale

345
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Speaker 3: like in fucking junior high and being like, dude, this

346
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 3: guy fucking saw football field ship go out. This guy

347
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,119
Speaker 3: was in the CIA. Not really, we fucking don't know

348
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,320
Speaker 3: what like that guy's whole background is. But again, it

349
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,399
Speaker 3: took like these little things that were like just because

350
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Speaker 3: they were printed or said based on a true story

351
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Speaker 3: that for me informed so much of how I even

352
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 3: perceived any of that because I was like, well, that

353
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Speaker 3: is the truth, and I'm going to use that as

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Speaker 3: like a foundational way to perceive everything.

355
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Speaker 1: Yeah, but let's just go through real quick the uniformity

356
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Speaker 1: of the grays, because even even like our researcher, I

357
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Speaker 1: thank you, Dave Ruse, did a great job on kind

358
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Speaker 1: of putting this dock together, but like he was like

359
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Speaker 1: kind of going with the grain of like the gray

360
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Speaker 1: is being.

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Speaker 2: Being a thing.

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Speaker 1: But even like a lot of the things that are

363
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Speaker 1: like supposedly uniform actually aren't like aren't uniform when when

364
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 1: you look at it like the only things that really

365
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 1: are uniform are the things we already covered, like i

366
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:06,680
Speaker 1: head shape, small nose, tiny mouth, thin limbs. But according

367
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Speaker 1: to the lore, grays have an oversized head shaped like

368
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Speaker 1: an upside down triangle, large rounded top with a pointy chin,

369
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 1: big almond shaped wrap, round eyes that are jet black,

370
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 1: no pupils, which that changes a lot in people's reports,

371
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Speaker 1: like a lot of the early reports that are like, no,

372
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Speaker 1: they have gray eyes, or they have like different you know,

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Speaker 1: beautiful hazel. Yeah, they don't talk. They use their hypnotic

374
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Speaker 1: eyes to communicate telepathically with humans. Again, I'm not sure.

375
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 1: I think I've seen various versions where like they communicate

376
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Speaker 1: with music or doing other things. No real nose, small

377
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Speaker 1: expressionless mouth, And I think that there's other things, like

378
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Speaker 1: some grays have multiple inner eyelids, like I've seen that

379
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,119
Speaker 1: in some of them, but that's not like a key

380
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 1: piece of the lore. And then there's like the short

381
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 1: grays and the tall grays, but like like like short

382
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,360
Speaker 1: grays between three four feet tall, large heads, slender, fragile

383
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 1: looking bodies, thin limbs, smooth gray colored skin, naked and

384
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: hairless with no visible genitalia, which is the thing that

385
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 1: keeps coming up.

386
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 2: Says that consistent.

387
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 3: Nothing downstairs can't figure it out for the life of me.

388
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is consistent. I do like that they insist

389
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: on including that. Like I'd say that's true of most

390
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 1: animals aren't like walking around upright with like big dick

391
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 1: and balls below. You know, that's like, that's not a thing.

392
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 2: That might come down to the equestrian center and burbank man,

393
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 2: that's right.

394
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 1: But I do just love the idea that there's someone

395
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,119
Speaker 1: in the UFO community just being like, yes, sorry to

396
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 1: interrupt your harrowing, mind blowing encounter with a godlike intelligence.

397
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,640
Speaker 1: Did you happen to get a look down their Yeah?

398
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 4: Hey, have you noticed that in most fantasy movies on

399
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 4: Westerns when they're riding horses, they have to pick out

400
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 4: female horses because otherwise the viewer gets distracted or they're

401
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 4: having to have that like this very dramatic conversation that's

402
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 4: like wait a second, that works.

403
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 2: Like a huge dick. She's got got sand all over

404
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,119
Speaker 2: it's dragging the ground.

405
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 4: Frame the shot. So I'm not looking at that the

406
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 4: whole time.

407
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 3: I totally didn't think about because every time I've been

408
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 3: in any kind of other horseback riding thing and there's

409
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 3: like a male horse.

410
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 2: You're like, yeah, immediately doing the imagery thing.

411
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: We're like, yo, well, this is also why like that

412
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: they say that it's a clever thing to keep the

413
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: dinosaurs from breeding in Jurassic Park, But that's also why

414
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 1: they had to have all female dinastas.

415
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is because just hang in dork pretty distracting.

416
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 4: But I think the take home from this is how

417
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 4: important it was to keep the design simple. Yes, if

418
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 4: you want something that they're picking people's brains, if you

419
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 4: want something that a child control, if you want something

420
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 4: that you can put onto a decoration or a sticker

421
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 4: or a little pin, it has to be simple. Of

422
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 4: some it comes back from an alien abduction. Like okay,

423
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 4: so they were twelve feet tall, they had thirty seven arms. Yeah,

424
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 4: they had a head. They were indescribable, right right. It

425
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 4: was just the one and reflected your own private fears

426
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 4: at you. It's torso existed in the fifth dimension, so

427
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,959
Speaker 4: you saw all of world history spinning around. It's navel

428
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 4: like no, no, no, simple no. Clothes don't have to

429
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 4: draw an outfit, right, hair, Hair is hard to draw,

430
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 4: that's true. Simple it's almost a logo. It's almost like

431
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 4: from the Wendy's sign.

432
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And it was for the longest, like Alien

433
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 3: Workshop was such a like popular skateboard brand in like

434
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:43,719
Speaker 3: La and skape culture.

435
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 2: That was like the like the dopest logo you.

436
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 3: Could have for like a skateboard in like the mid nineties,

437
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 3: was this like very simple alien head And it was

438
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 3: always like, dude, Alien Workshop.

439
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 4: Those Alien wear computers. That's still a company. See, that's

440
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 4: the other thing. Nobody owns that design, right right, Yeah,

441
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 4: you're free to steal it where you can't do that

442
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 4: with a lot of characters.

443
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: Are still right, yeah, the Predator. But yeah, as mentioned,

444
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: these haven't always been like we just started getting alien

445
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: abductions within like it started in the sixties about but

446
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: this is a long time trend of abduction narratives involving

447
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: you know, in the past. So these are things that

448
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: are common to all these abduction narratives. A dark Knight,

449
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 1: another worldly visitor being spirited away to another realm sexual

450
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: encounter not always consensual, returning home with fragmented memory and

451
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: a sense of missing time, which is that's a great

452
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 1: little narrative detail that's like and I came home and

453
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 1: I checked the clock, and it was a whole day.

454
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 2: Was you know what I mean.

455
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: That's just a good narrative kind of twist that I

456
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: see why we keep using it. It's good. This goes

457
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: back to like the gods of ancient Greece and Rome,

458
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: like they they used to do that, like Zeus took

459
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: the form of a swan and sexually assaulted a Spartan queen.

460
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: Religious texts, angels appear to deliver divine messages fairies in

461
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: European folklore, witches and demons. Demons is such a good

462
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,479
Speaker 1: corollary because yeah, the thing that you were describing of

463
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: like many headed beasts, but it like stands on the

464
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: head of a needle, like isn't isn't that how the

465
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: Bible describes like demons and stuff, Like it's just.

466
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 4: The angels where it's like it's impossible to draw a

467
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 4: picture of it. It's like, well, there were wheels within wheels,

468
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 4: and the wheels were covered with eyes and they were

469
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 4: yeaheen wings, and it spoke with a thousand voices like nope,

470
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 4: it's a common with a harp and she's got she's.

471
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: Got what if it's a baby with wings.

472
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: Right on the wheels with eyes ship man.

473
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 3: I just got done with mastered boxes, so I don't

474
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 3: know if I can do that.

475
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: But I also think this is an interesting time to

476
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: bring up the axial age hypothesis of history, which Carl

477
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: Jaspers points out that like Confucius in China, the Buddha

478
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: in India, Homer and Plato in Greece, and Zarathustra in Iran,

479
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 1: like all happened around the same time in history, like

480
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: and just this idea because it's I think we tend

481
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: to want to view things as like a linear story

482
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: of like how a thing comes to happen is like

483
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: this person did that. But then sometimes it just feels

484
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: like it's actually time for something to happen. And this

485
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: is why we get you know, A good example is

486
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: we like to think Edison invented the light bulb, and

487
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: it's like, actually five people invented the light bulb around

488
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: that time at various places, like it was just time

489
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,719
Speaker 1: for the light bulb to be invented, and you know

490
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: that there are just these moments in history, so like

491
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: before cultures were in the time of demon and witch

492
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: abductions and then we hit this time where suddenly it

493
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,239
Speaker 1: makes sense to everyone at the same time for that

494
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: to switch over and for it to be gray aliens

495
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: and for them to kind of look like this.

496
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 4: The weirdest example and the silliest examples one we covered

497
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 4: in Cracked the fact that Dennis the Menace, Yeah, the

498
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 4: comic book and cartoon character. That comic was Dennis the Menas.

499
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 4: There were two different characters called that that were developed

500
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 4: at the exact same time on the opposite sides of

501
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 4: the world, one the United States, one in Scotland, and

502
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 4: they both debuted on the same day Smarts twelve, nineteen

503
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 4: fifty one. After all of human history passed without a

504
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 4: single person or character being called Dennis the Menace, suddenly

505
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 4: suddenly on nineteen fifty one. That's saying these two the

506
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 4: two artists had never contact one another, they had never interacted,

507
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 4: the companies, had nothing to do with each other. Their

508
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 4: inspirations were totally different. There was not some famous dentist

509
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 4: they both picked and in decided to do a It's

510
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 4: just it was time. Were there to be at least one,

511
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 4: we wound up with two, and those are just the

512
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 4: ones that made it.

513
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 1: Imagine like the five Dennis the menaces that like were

514
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: on the cutting room floor of like the you know,

515
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: Tokyo newspaper and like in Mexico. Those are just the

516
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: two that people were like, yeah they and I ate

517
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: with this one. So in terms of the history of

518
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: anything resembling the Grays, there's a book about a Visit

519
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: from a large headed Alien that was published in eighteen

520
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: eighty eight that people point to as maybe the first

521
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: instance of a gray showing a Meeta a Tale of

522
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: the Future. The stature is diminutive, large heads out of

523
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: all proportion to their bodies, baldness of their head, and

524
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: solemnity of their mean. But they also like have different

525
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: like pale gray eyes, so like there's a lot of

526
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: stuff that's different back then. And we also have HG. Wells,

527
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,959
Speaker 1: who wrote War of the World's also wrote an article

528
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: called the Man of the Year million about what humans

529
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: would look like in the distant future, and that does

530
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: look like a modern day alien. It's got like a big,

531
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: bulbous head for some reason. He's got the little buttthhole

532
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: mouth from mac and me, you know the alien from

533
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: Macame that's like the little rend weird butt whole mouth,

534
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: and also his asses permanently up in the air, like

535
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: he's asking for it at a dog park or something.

536
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: But for the most part it does.

537
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: Look like a gray, and there's a time traveler theory

538
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: that the grays are coming from the distant future.

539
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 2: The way that H. G.

540
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: Wells imagined the trajectory of human evolutions being that, you know,

541
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: we'd get more frail and more you know, we'd continue

542
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: to select for how smart people were, and more and

543
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: more we would like wither away into just these like thin, frail,

544
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: giant brained bodies, and then we would like need to

545
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: go back in time to raid people for sperm essentially,

546
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: which is where that where that part of the story comes.

547
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 3: Well, the concept was because the aliens got way too

548
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 3: intellectual with their shit, humans got and they became raise

549
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 3: us in the future after we've spent too much time

550
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 3: having sex with smart people, right, yeah, yeah, sometimes you

551
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 3: need a brute with a nice looking nose. They're like, oh,

552
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 3: that's a good nose on that one, not like our

553
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 3: non existent slit noses.

554
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 2: That's right.

555
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 4: But I think it's important to note that you can

556
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 4: find throughout like animation that character design for one thing,

557
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 4: just big head, little tiny body is a common way

558
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 4: to draw a character since forever. But also if you

559
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 4: find old Mooney tunes like mad scientists character, real good

560
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 4: chance it's going to be huge, bald head. That's just

561
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 4: like an iconic signifier of the next like smarter than

562
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 4: a normal person. Right, So if you're imagining your aliens

563
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 4: is like they're like super nerds. It's it's it's the

564
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 4: thing we picture when we think of like a nerder

565
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 4: mad scientist. It's only that's everybody over there.

566
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 2: Right right.

567
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were talking about how Sherlock Holmes one of

568
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: his deductions in our Sherlock episode. One of his deductions

569
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: was like, look how big this guy's head is. He's

570
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: got to be smart easy, Yeah, guys, and that guy's

571
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: never wrong. But yeah, I mean you were pointing out though,

572
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: like if you think about like charting, you know, we

573
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: think of ourselves as like smarter versions of animals, and

574
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: animals are hair than us, and so there's just like

575
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: a certain internal logic too. Okay, so it's going to

576
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: be even less hairy than than right, right, than we are.

577
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: It'll just keep going on that, which is an interesting Again,

578
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: it's like kind of smart design work that we're doing.

579
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: Collectively as we create this, it's like, right, you know,

580
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: there's an internal logic of making it hairless and like

581
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: having a big brain because we have like bigger heads

582
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: than some of the you know, lower creatures and we

583
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: have less hair. But then it's also just like and

584
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: what if it just was the easiest thing to draw

585
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: in all of human history?

586
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 3: Right, Like to Jason's point about the simplicity, it's like

587
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 3: the simplicity and the design and also the simplicity of

588
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 3: your ability to conceptualize it too. They're like, oh right, right, yeah,

589
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 3: that makes sense that we're this is we're trending towards

590
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 3: this kind of thing. So yeah, it's like like similar

591
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 3: to what you were saying about Stephen King, about how

592
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 3: you just have this ability to find a shared fear

593
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 3: that humans have and just find a way to exploit it.

594
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 3: This is like operating in that same way where it's

595
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 3: like everyone's kind of familiar with thinking like this, so yeah,

596
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 3: you're much easier to be like oh yeah, yeah.

597
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can see it.

598
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: I just dropped in the chat a timeline of like

599
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: alien descriptions and like what you know, people basically drawing

600
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: what everybody's aliens looked like, so you can get a

601
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: look at the nineteen fifty four guy that is a

602
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: button with legs coming out in the bottom.

603
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 2: What the fuck you sweet? What's the story with that?

604
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: It looks like a light switch with legs. There's a

605
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 2: lot of wild shit.

606
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: And as we're going to get to the people who

607
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: like really popularize the Grays, the Hills go through a

608
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: lot of different descriptions even of like as they're recovering

609
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,959
Speaker 1: the memories and like one of the guy's first descriptions

610
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: of the alien is like, yeah, he's like kind of

611
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: got red hair. It's like an Irish guy.

612
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 4: You used to get that a lot, used to get

613
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 4: a lot of in other ones. It's like, well they

614
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 4: were little short guys and they have like slicked back

615
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 4: black hair, like yeah, and it's like they're Italians.

616
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do we say, the most foreign thing that

617
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: they can think of as Italians?

618
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 4: Right, it's exactly that, though it's it's like vaguely ethnic

619
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 4: is as far as they can get. That's the farthest

620
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 4: their imagination.

621
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, they're right, Italians from Mars and yeah,

622
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,959
Speaker 3: and my most cynical version of this, it's like they're

623
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 3: like man, a black person and a white like a

624
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 3: biracial person. They're like a gray I don't know this

625
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 3: kind of alien I cannot fathom.

626
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 4: Well, but you're also getting on this chart the people

627
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 4: who occasionally see the Nordic the beautiful white, blonde, sexy lady. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes,

628
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 4: they have achieved a higher plane of existence, even wider

629
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 4: version of humans than what we have now, the ultimate

630
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 4: perfection of like Okay, dude, I.

631
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: They're beautiful, the most beautiful. Yeah, yeah, so let's get

632
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: let's get into that. Because so in eighteen ninety seven,

633
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: the world's a buzz of efforts to build the first airplane.

634
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: Two Americans reported separate encounters with alien spacecraft and extraterrestrial

635
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: A farmer in Missouri claimed that a vessel landed in

636
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: the field with six foot propellers. Next to it stood

637
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: a stunning alien woman totally naked, could see everything. Quote,

638
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 1: she was the most beautiful thing I had ever beheld.

639
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: Oh man, under medium sized, with golden hair, wavy and

640
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: glossy that hung to her waist. Next thing you knew,

641
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: some balls attached to propellers started spinning quickly and the

642
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: ship shot away like an arrow, like the propeller thing

643
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: obviously doesn't make sense for traveling through space in a

644
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,479
Speaker 1: way that they probably weren't aware of at the time.

645
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 1: But they did guess how planes would be designed, the

646
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 1: early plane, and they got the propellers, so that was good.

647
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: They were still sixty years away from yeah, yeah, and

648
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: the spinny balls, and they were shoot away like an era.

649
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: And then there was a guy in West Virginia who

650
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: spotted an illuminated ship with propellers in the sky. When

651
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: it landed, eight Martians stepped out, each measuring eleven to

652
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: twelve feet.

653
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

654
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: So you get a lot of different descriptions. The uniformity

655
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: thing is overstated, and in fact, the Nordic type, the

656
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: one that Jason's referring to that is like the most

657
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: perfect evolved species you can possibly imagine, is the default

658
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: alien sighting in the UK and the UK forty four

659
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: percent of the aliens are normal height, thirty five percent

660
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: are Nordic, which is like super tall, and twelve percent

661
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,919
Speaker 1: of the Grays in Europe fifteen percent normal height, twenty

662
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: five percent Nordic, forty eight percent Grays in the US

663
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 1: twelve percent normal heights, six percent Nordic seventy three percent Grays.

664
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 2: So it is kind of a US phenomenon, right, well.

665
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 3: Because again it's like it's all just informed by your culture,

666
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 3: right because like if in America we're getting like the

667
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 3: Hills version of the Grays and everyone's like, all right,

668
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 3: all right, that's the hymnal we sing from. And if

669
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 3: in the UK, your first ideas are like these beautiful

670
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 3: white people, man, yea, they're and the you're like that's yeah,

671
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 3: that's our alien or whatever.

672
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, they have achieved maximum whiteness.

673
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 2: Yeah.

674
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 4: Plus we must, we must become more like that.

675
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 2: Bless them, Bless the tall whites.

676
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 4: All right, dude, Yeah, you're starting to show too much

677
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 4: here your story of your alien encounter.

678
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 3: They're sexy and they will be able to play in

679
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 3: the NBA Power Forward Just wait, just wait, it's coming.

680
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: The Europeans. I'm saying they've invaded, but it's mostly the.

681
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 4: Balkan basketball, superior.

682
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 2: Advanced form of basketball.

683
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 4: They're not just out there trying to show off.

684
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, it just.

685
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,399
Speaker 1: The ball seems to fizz about so fast when they're

686
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: out there, and it was confusion in their opposition.

687
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 2: Jesus.

688
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, UFO sightings are very common in the late forties,

689
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: and everybody thinks it's Russia. They think it's Russian spacecraft.

690
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: Then there's a nineteen fifty three sci fi horror movie

691
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: called Invaders from Mars. The TV series The Outer Limits

692
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 1: from nineteen sixty three to nineteen sixty five comes through

693
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: and really starts putting aliens on the map. Even the

694
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 1: image that they created of aliens isn't that much like

695
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: the Grays, but like, it does start putting this idea

696
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 1: out there of like I just put it in the chat,

697
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: but it does start putting the idea out there of

698
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: alien abductions.

699
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 2: That could be a dude in a ham mask. Yeah,

700
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: it does kind.

701
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just it looks like, yeah, you could put

702
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,280
Speaker 1: a piece of bologny over here, like I'm an alien.

703
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 2: So I was like, fuck, you know, but it's the fifties,

704
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 2: so you don't know better.

705
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 1: But this is where we start getting like tractor beams

706
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: pulling things into UFOs, the big brained, big eyed And

707
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: I do think TV is an interest has an interesting

708
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: impact on the zeitgeist because it's massively impactful, especially at

709
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: this time when it's like this monoculture. There's only like

710
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: a handful of channels, everybody's watching the same thing. They're

711
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: watching it in like crazy numbers that we can't even

712
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: like conceive of right now. And it's also completely disposable,

713
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: like they taped over like some of the footage from

714
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: the first Super Bowl, from the moon landing, most of

715
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: like the first couple of years of like Johnny Parson

716
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: don't exist anywhere. It's this like thing that everybody was

717
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: watching that was like dumping ideas into like so many

718
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: people's brains at this time, and like we don't even

719
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: really have like a record of it in the same

720
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: way that we do of like film like or at

721
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 1: least like we don't like really study it because it's

722
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: kind of dumb, and so everybody just like doesn't really

723
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: pay attention to it. But I think that's another place

724
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: where people are like and then suddenly there's this rash

725
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: of UFO abductions and it's like, well, there were like

726
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: three different shows where that sort of thing was happening,

727
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: and everybody was fucking watching it every night constantly, but

728
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 1: just like nobody really wrote that much about it, or

729
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: like we don't even have probably some of the episodes

730
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: in the Library of Congress right, but this is when

731
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: So nineteen sixty one, a couple Betty and Barney.

732
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 2: Hill, tell those names.

733
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: I would not be in Barney Yeah.

734
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 2: And this is one Jason Stones. That's right, Betty and

735
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: Barney Hill.

736
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: Nay rubble like what we know why the aliens picked

737
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: them the Flintstones, so people think they are what are happening,

738
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: Like the Flintstones is what's happening down on Earth. The

739
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: Jetsons are what's happening up and the whole thing is

740
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: like a post apocalyptic version of the planet. So the

741
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: aliens are fans of the Flintstones, clearly because Betty and

742
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: Barney Hill returning home from a long road trip when

743
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: they spot a bright object in the sky that appeared

744
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 1: to be following their car. The last thing they remember

745
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,439
Speaker 1: is allowed beeping noise and strange vibrations. After that, their

746
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: memories become jumbled and they arrive home three hours later

747
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: than expected, missing chunk of time. They have strange physical evidence.

748
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: Betty's dress was ripped and covered in a fine pink powder.

749
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: There were circular marks on the car like large suction

750
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: cups had been attached to it. Because the aliens are

751
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: using Aliens are using the same technology as like nineteen

752
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: sixties Batman.

753
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: Pull it out, fire up the wench. It's like, come on,

754
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 2: you got you can do better than that.

755
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 1: This is the detail that I'm just like Barney. Buddy

756
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: Barney found a ring of genital warts around his dick.

757
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 2: Oh my god, and he's blaming the aliens.

758
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, that's okay, all right, Barney. Yeah, some

759
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 1: interesting details. Betty already a believer in UFOs. She was

760
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: a fan of sci fi movies and TV shows about

761
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: alien abductions, read books about UFOs, including the popular nineteen

762
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: fifty book Flying Saucers Are Real by Donald Keijo. She

763
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: had written the author who recommended she read The Great

764
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: Flying Saucer Hoax. She's not just like casually interested in this,

765
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: She's writing the author of books about UFO abductions. He

766
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: recommended she read this book, Great Flying Saucer Hoax, which

767
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 1: includes stories of UFO's following cars down quiet country roads.

768
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 2: Because they're from New Hampshire, right, doesn't that? Like read

769
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 2: these people are.

770
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 4: They're from New Hampshire. Their road trip was up through.

771
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 2: Canada, long ass drive, like where they were coming? Where

772
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 2: were they? Where were they going? In Canada.

773
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 4: They were they were going up on a road trip.

774
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 4: What happened was they were going to stay in a

775
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 4: hotel and then there was a snowstorm was supposed to

776
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 4: come in and they were scared. They're es stranded up there.

777
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 4: That's important the story because they drive back, they've been

778
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 4: on the road for eighteen straight hours when in the

779
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 4: middle of the night their brains start to not work.

780
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 3: Right.

781
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,720
Speaker 4: Yes, they were both very very sleep deprived and driving

782
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 4: through a mountain road where back then would have been

783
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 4: pitch dark. There's some lights up around there now, but

784
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 4: it was Yeah, you start seeing stuff. If you ever

785
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 4: talked to a trucker talk about the stuff they've seen

786
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 4: in the middle of the night, it's not because they

787
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 4: are condos to the paranormal. It's because they've been driving

788
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 4: for fourteen freaking hours, right, and your brain just starts

789
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 4: showing you stuff.

790
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, right, And like this, I do think

791
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: like one of the things that also I always found

792
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: interesting about alien sightings or UFO sightings is like how

793
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: many pilots also have like seen wild shit in the sky,

794
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: And like pilots you like think of as these like

795
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 1: sort of sober minded people hopefully you know that we're

796
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 1: putting our lives in their hands, and a lot of them.

797
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 1: There's a lot of testimony from pilots being like, oh yeah,

798
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: I've seen you know, crazy shit up in the sky.

799
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I was fucked up. Yeah, I was pretty

800
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 2: fucked up.

801
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

802
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: They're also kind of the truckers of the sky. You know,

803
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: they're flying these long hours looking at nothing, you know,

804
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: and the brain just like starts to do some wild

805
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: shit to you.

806
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 4: There's what least want to count of a fighter pilot

807
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,399
Speaker 4: who would try to pursue a UFO because he thought

808
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 4: it was something from like the Russians, right, experimental aircraft,

809
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 4: and was chasing it up into the sky and talking

810
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 4: to hell is just zipping all over the sky. It's

811
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 4: on my left and the right. He was chasing the

812
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:21,479
Speaker 4: planet Venus right, which appears to be a very bright star. Again,

813
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 4: he's a pilot. You say, Well, if he was a

814
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 4: pilot and he saw something, it's like, no, these guys

815
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 4: are just guys. Yeah, they're not experts in extraterrestrials. They're

816
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 4: experts on flying an aircraft.

817
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 1: And yeah, I've seen top gun. Top gun wouldn't do that.

818
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: I do call Tom Cruise's character top done in that movie. Yeah,

819
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 1: top Gun wouldn't do that. Top Gun would go different.

820
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, would have shot that down, dude.

821
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: So soon, Betty starts having a series of vivid dreams.

822
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: In them, she and Varney are led through the woods

823
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,800
Speaker 1: by short humanoid creatures with gray skin, slits for noses,

824
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: large wrap round eyes. They're taking a board of spacecraft

825
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: where they and performed terrifying medical experiments on them. The

826
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: worst moment for Betty was when they inserted a long

827
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 1: needle into her navel. That is a thing that that's

828
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 1: something that happens though in one of those nineteen fifties

829
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: UFO abduction movies.

830
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 3: That should also happens a fucking neo in the matrix.

831
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 3: I know when that shit goes in.

832
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 2: I'm like that.

833
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 3: There's something so unsettling about that because that is sort

834
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 3: of like our like our connection to our baby.

835
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't like development. Yeah fuck yeah.

836
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 4: Any listeners out there, just jam your finger into your navel,

837
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 4: you realize, shut down, fucking uncomfortable. Yeah, that's a part

838
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 4: of your guts, just it just connected to your skin,

839
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 4: just in there. If you want to see why, that's

840
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 4: like a final fear. But it is important to note

841
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 4: this is a part of the story that I think

842
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 4: people don't realize that she on the night they had nothing,

843
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:57,879
Speaker 4: then she recovered the memory in her sleep that has

844
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,399
Speaker 4: had a dream and decided that was a memory back.

845
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 4: That is not how memory works. There are people out

846
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 4: there today who still think that they will make the

847
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 4: joke well, I must have repressed that memory because it

848
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 4: was too traumatic. There's no such thing that's superscience. Yea

849
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 4: thing is recovering a memory of something that was too

850
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 4: upsetting to you. Now I realize they're probably saying, well,

851
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 4: the alien technology wiped our memories or whatever and it

852
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 4: came back to us. But this is not evidence for anything.

853
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 4: This is a dream. But from that dream birth of

854
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 4: modern mythology, because now people see her dream all over

855
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 4: the world. I think that's crazier than the aliens, right, yeah, yeah,

856
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 4: I don't think it's crazier than the aliens, but it

857
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 4: is crazy. I think it's crazier than the aliens because

858
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 4: I think a thousand years from now people will still

859
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 4: be claiming to get abducted from alien grays and it

860
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 4: all starts from this random lady's dream.

861
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:50,919
Speaker 3: Do we still But do we still? What's the what's

862
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 3: like the latest one? Are still people? Are people still

863
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 3: claiming alien abduction these days? I feel like, now, oh okay,

864
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 3: because like everyone's on the.

865
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: Gone road, it goes viral at that point. I don't

866
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: I don't know like how common it is to day.

867
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 2: That's what I mean.

868
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 3: Like I think the new one is like drones, Like

869
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 3: everyone now has videos and catching a shit UAPs.

870
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: Or something, drones in the tic Tac Yeah, yeah, yeah,

871
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,760
Speaker 1: which you know that. That's like I think these things

872
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: just keep kind of.

873
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 3: Well, I'd imagine it's our cynicism too now with like

874
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 3: cameras and everything being documented. Is like, well, dude, if

875
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 3: you don't have a video of a fucking alien taking

876
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 3: away and shut the fuck up.

877
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,240
Speaker 2: But like if you got a little.

878
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 3: Tic tac video, then people can kind of you know,

879
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 3: project their own meaning onto that versus just the claim

880
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 3: of like yeah, dude, do.

881
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 4: Also the fact that, for example, in the original sighting

882
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 4: where those guys claim that they saw fline saucers, those

883
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 4: pilots whatever year that was nineteen forty something, even the saucer,

884
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 4: they didn't describe them as saucers. They described them as

885
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 4: shapes that seemed to skip like saucers if you flip

886
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 4: the saucer over a lake and kind of skips. That's

887
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 4: how they said they were moving through the sky. But

888
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 4: now you've established that the aliens fly and like a pipe.

889
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,399
Speaker 2: Light right right right, two bowls together of Look, I.

890
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 4: Saw a flying saucer and they just flip through a

891
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,359
Speaker 4: hub cap in the air, right right right. Again, the

892
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 4: simplicity of the ship, the simplicity of the design, and

893
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 4: how easy it makes it to fake, and how key

894
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 4: that is because now you've got something that's very Look,

895
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 4: I can see a circle up there, and everybody's like, ah,

896
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 4: flying saucer.

897
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 3: Because it's also like, I feel like attached so much

898
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 3: to like this, like wanting to stand out from other

899
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 3: people too, So what a convenient way to do that

900
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 3: or differentiate yourself by claiming.

901
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 2: I saw the saucer. I got that alien took me.

902
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: But I also think that it's important to like in

903
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: the same way. I talk a lot about the Havana

904
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: syndrome on the show and the way that people they

905
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,720
Speaker 1: think that like those CIA agents slash diplomats are making

906
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: it up. But it's like, well, why would they make

907
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: it up. It doesn't really make sense. I think they

908
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: believe that this shit is happening to them, and I think,

909
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 1: like in the case of Betty and Barney Hill, like

910
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: I think the like to what Jason was talking about

911
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: with the recovered memories in hypnosis, Like it's really easy

912
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 1: for people to add and like memory is like incredibly malleable.

913
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: They've done like tons of experiments where you can just

914
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: like add stuff to it. But that doesn't make it

915
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 1: a thing where you like know that you've done that

916
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,959
Speaker 1: and you're you're like knowingly doing it for attention. You're

917
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: suddenly like that's just a thing that's incredibly real to you,

918
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: you know, which is so wild.

919
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 4: When you walk through how this thing plays out with

920
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 4: the hypnosis and the Hill case, this is a perfect

921
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 4: This is like the platonic ideal. That's why I love

922
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 4: the story of how something like the spreads because this

923
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 4: is this is almost step by step how it works.

924
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

925
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: So she's going to these UFO meetings and people say

926
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 1: you should try undergoing hip to see if you can

927
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: recover these lost memories of that night. So over a

928
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: period of four months in nineteen sixty four, this is

929
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: three years after the initial abduction, they participated in several

930
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: hypnotic regression therapy sessions. They do their sessions separately, and

931
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: it kind of takes a while for a coherent narrative

932
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 1: to emerge. The narrative that emerges as the UFO landed

933
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 1: on the highway, the Hills, partially immobilized or taken on board,

934
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: subjected to medical examinations, found themselves back in their car

935
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: hours later. But yeah, you can listen to the audio

936
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: from one of Barney's hypnosis sessions. At points in the session,

937
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 1: he seems like really freaked out, like to the point

938
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 1: that you're like Jesus is again, like, so this is

939
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 1: not a thing where this guy just happens.

940
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 2: To be a great actor. Sure he believes that he

941
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 2: is re experiencing something that happened to him.

942
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 4: You know, you start screaming that it feels like eyes

943
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 4: are peering into my mind. It feels like eyes are

944
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 4: pushing their way into my brain, and start screaming that

945
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 4: during his hypnosis session.

946
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 2: Yeah wait, they were. I didn't know they were an

947
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 2: interracial couple. Wait to bury the little but I'm just

948
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 2: pulling up, like Barney, my guy, this is this is key.

949
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 4: The Hills told nobody about this because they did not

950
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,439
Speaker 4: want to be on TV, because that was not this.

951
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: Is not yes yeah, yeah yeah.

952
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 4: They did not want to draw attention to themselves. They

953
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 4: did not go out and try to sell a book.

954
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 4: They didn't do the talk show circuit. They told nobody.

955
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 4: The only reason the world knows about this is because

956
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 4: somebody else leaked there that hypnotism session notes. And then

957
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 4: they started doing press. The first came home. The only

958
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 4: people they told they called their local Air Force base.

959
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:56,280
Speaker 4: It's like, hey, there's a freaking spacecraft that's giving people

960
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 4: general awards. We should be you should be doing something

961
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 4: about that. And they didn't go to the press. They

962
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 4: didn't try to write a book. They never tried to.

963
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 4: Probably this ruined their lives. Like Barney died in early death.

964
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 4: He had like he had health problems ever since this this.

965
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 4: They did not get rich off this. It's great, try

966
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 4: to get rich off this. They believed this happened. But

967
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 4: when people say, well, Barney, you know, he independently told

968
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 4: the story, it's like no. His wife had the dream

969
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,919
Speaker 4: and she had been talking this. This took over her life.

970
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 4: This Chid talked about this every single day for two

971
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 4: to three years before they had their hypnosis session, she

972
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 4: knew the story under hypnosis is the exact same thing

973
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 4: with the satanic panic. You get a child under hypnosis

974
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 4: or a teenage girl and ask her under hypnosis, you're

975
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 4: not recovering anything. You're just extremely Susceptible're just suggestible, so

976
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 4: you can sense what they're wanting out of you. So

977
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 4: when you tell a little child like, now, did they

978
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:59,879
Speaker 4: perhaps take you somewhere in the dungeon? Yeah? They did,

979
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 4: they did, and uh and there were men in robes,

980
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:03,839
Speaker 4: it's the exact same thing here.

981
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,280
Speaker 1: They're like dming your memories, like being the dungeon master

982
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: of your memories again.

983
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 4: But it's exactly that. Because he loved his wife, Yeah,

984
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 4: he wanted to support her in this and he didn't

985
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 4: want her to be like alone. So under hypnosis like yeah, he.

986
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, right right.

987
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 4: Subconsciously, he's not going to contradict to himself like, yeah,

988
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:28,720
Speaker 4: this did happen. Yes, she's not crazy. And it's such

989
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 4: a powerful thing to me because he just wanted her

990
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 4: story to be true and so he told it became

991
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 4: his truth. And lots of things work that way. They're

992
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 4: not fraudsters like she's true, but the rest of her

993
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:45,720
Speaker 4: life trying to get abducted again and it never happened.

994
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: Man.

995
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:46,439
Speaker 4: Right.

996
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: That's also the same thing with like the CIA thing

997
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: and the like. It is such a fundamental mind fuck

998
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 1: for people. It's like, why would they tell this lie.

999
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 1: It's like because they don't think they're lying.

1000
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, because and also it's just fucking me up because

1001
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 3: I was joking about the buyer racial thing being called

1002
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 3: a gray and then this is where we get the

1003
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 3: terms right from. It's from a biracial biracial couple talking

1004
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 3: about the shit they saw. I'm like, God, damn, this

1005
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 3: is fucking okay. It's so funny because I just I

1006
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 3: knew of this case. I never saw a picture or anything.

1007
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 3: And then when you brought up the hypnosis session, I

1008
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 3: was like, let me see, like, let me see where

1009
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 3: this thing's at.

1010
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 2: And I saw that. I'm like, this looks like my

1011
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 2: great grandfather.

1012
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: But just in terms of where like going back to

1013
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 1: the grays and the description of the grays, because this

1014
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: is one of the things that really popularizes that image.

1015
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: It was many sessions, and in some of those sessions,

1016
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: I just want to read this one from the Barney sessions.

1017
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: One alien person looks friendly to me. He's friendly looking,

1018
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: and he's looking at me over his right shoulder and

1019
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 1: he's smiling. What does the face make you think of?

1020
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 1: It was round, I think of a redheaded Irishman. So

1021
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 1: that's an early version. In another was he has an

1022
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,959
Speaker 1: evil face. He looks like a German Nazi. He's wearing

1023
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 1: a black, shiny jacket and scarf. I've never seen eyes

1024
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,919
Speaker 1: slanted like that. His eyes are slanted. Oh, his eyes

1025
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:13,760
Speaker 1: are slanted, but not like a Chinese. They began round

1026
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: and went back like that, and they went up like this,

1027
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 1: please can I draw it? And then he draws it

1028
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: and the guy's wearing like a biker like it kind

1029
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: of looks like a gray but it has pupils in

1030
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: the middle which make it look really goofy. And he's

1031
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:33,399
Speaker 1: also wearing like a biker hat, a black leather biker hut.

1032
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: And then they finally, you know, like it's this process

1033
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:42,319
Speaker 1: of and then they finally like, you know, after the hypnosiscessions,

1034
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 1: they commissioned a local artists to paint a portrait of

1035
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: the alien and that's the first time we get this

1036
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:51,240
Speaker 1: like very specific look of the grays.

1037
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 4: Right. Yeah, So even then they're wearing I think in

1038
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 4: all of their counts they're wearing clothes. They're always describing

1039
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 4: little jacket or shiny jackets, jump suits. Yeah, kind of

1040
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,720
Speaker 4: pants they were wearing. And at some point we've decided

1041
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 4: that looks stupid.

1042
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, like a naked.

1043
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:12,800
Speaker 1: Shirt in yeah yeah, making it smooth, no dick and balls.

1044
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 4: Because in that final the moment, you're picturing these guys

1045
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 4: like getting dressed and it's like, well, how how is

1046
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 4: that shirt gonna fit over that head? Like, lookally your picture,

1047
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 4: how did you get that shirt on? Think about that.

1048
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 3: I better be a button up. That better be a

1049
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 3: button up, not getting it through the neckle.

1050
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 4: But if he was wearing a blousey button.

1051
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 2: Up, that would be pretty flowing blouse. Yeah, they're talking

1052
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 2: about telling it needs a blousy button up and a

1053
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 2: dick and balls. It doesn't make sense. It's the puffy

1054
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 2: shirt from Seinfeld.

1055
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 4: They're like, who is this person?

1056
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: So we just we got a bunch of copycap books

1057
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: and movies. We also get so this is around the

1058
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 1: time that fire in the Sky happens. I remember that

1059
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: being like a big moment for me. I think that

1060
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 1: is like where I was first hooked was when I

1061
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: think I saw that in theater as a child and

1062
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 1: was like, goddamn, this basically is real.

1063
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 2: Has damn one documentary.

1064
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then yeah, you get the Close Encounters of

1065
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: the third kind, which has aliens that look, it has

1066
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 1: both the short grays and the tall Grays, which that

1067
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 1: that's like the kind of distinctions that's like sort of

1068
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 1: how they have the Grays organized into like these different

1069
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: groupings and genuses and stuff like that. And then Et

1070
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: comes through and like makes us all kind of forget

1071
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 1: about closing the close encounter aliens. But then also the

1072
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 1: close encounter aliens are still kind of out there right

1073
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 1: and you know, able to be used.

1074
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 4: Uh.

1075
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: The Grays are often connected to the Roswell Incident, which

1076
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 1: happened in nineteen forty seven, and I assumed that we

1077
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: had descriptions of the Grays from that time and like

1078
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: that's where it all started, But that's actually not true.

1079
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: It basically just got kind of retcond over like after

1080
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 1: like basically the late seventies and early eighties, two popular

1081
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: paranormal writers kind of go back and re examine the

1082
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 1: Roswell incident and write best sellers about this, there's one

1083
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty that I think is the thing that

1084
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 1: puts that one on the map. And that's when they

1085
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 1: start creating fake videos that's like this, you see this

1086
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: alien autopsy like that, Yeah, it's as real as it gets.

1087
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 1: It's from nineteen forty seven, and then it's later proven

1088
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 1: to be false. No, so like everything that depicts the

1089
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: grays comes after the Hills in the sixties, and then

1090
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 1: it like gets retcond into earlier versions of alien abductions essentially.

1091
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 4: And gets retcond as far back as Like there's people

1092
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 4: that will find cave paint said incis they can see

1093
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 4: alien grays on there. There's ancient you know whatever, there's

1094
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 4: carvings from Egypt, and look at the shape of this thing.

1095
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 4: It's clearly that's a great because once you've got that,

1096
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 4: you can just retroactively. Everybody does this, like this self

1097
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 4: folklore works is it works backward because if you can

1098
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 4: make something seem old, that gives it validity, right because

1099
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 4: as goes back forever, of course it's it's valid. It's like, well, yeah,

1100
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 4: but you it took you a long time to iterate

1101
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 4: that specific design before you started transposing it on every

1102
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 4: previous incident, and so all the little deviations and the

1103
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 4: fact that the aliens and some of these famous cases

1104
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 4: were wearing hats, that just gets written right out of

1105
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 4: it because I got to make it consistent going back

1106
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 4: and to make it seem like we've got one truth. Now.

1107
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 4: I can't think of anything else in life that works

1108
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 4: this way. It probably is just the aliens where people

1109
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 4: are just going back and insisting that, no, it's always been.

1110
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 3: Like this, that's right, right, right, Yeah. I just like

1111
01:00:57,800 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 3: though too, they're like, man, look at that big ass.

1112
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 3: It's like, I think that's a hat. Like, nah, bro,

1113
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 3: it's all skull under there, dude, it's all skull. They're

1114
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 3: fucking aliens have seen it right here.

1115
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 1: They were onto something trying to put a hat on it,

1116
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: because hats are iconic. They're they're usually right, but I

1117
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 1: guess when you have a head that is very uniquely shaped.

1118
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 1: So the Roswell incident was presented on an episode of

1119
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 1: Unsolved Mystery, and that I think Unsolved Mysteries had in

1120
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 1: the credits, like I think you see a gray alien

1121
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: like one of the grays in there.

1122
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 2: Oh, just like to as part of like the opening credits.

1123
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think that was like part of the

1124
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: iconography of the of the series. There was nineteen ninety

1125
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 1: five's Alien Autopsy Factor Fiction, a TV documentary that purported

1126
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 1: to show nineteen forty seven footage of a top secret

1127
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:53,919
Speaker 1: alien autopsy, and people were like, up.

1128
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:55,439
Speaker 2: And down, dude, there's no way.

1129
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 1: It kind of reminds me of how Arthur Conan Doyle

1130
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: fell for those fairy hoax photos. It's like, how how

1131
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 1: could it possibly be fake? Look at that, like, because

1132
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:10,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, he just you'd never seen a photoshopped

1133
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 1: image before, right, Yeah. People were really buying into that

1134
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 1: in the mid nineties, and then eventually people were like, ah, sorry,

1135
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 1: I made that up. That's a sheep's brain, that's a dummy,

1136
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: that's chicken and trails.

1137
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 2: That's just goo, this general goo over there. Those are

1138
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 2: baby back ribs. You know, I should have eaten. That's

1139
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 2: such a waste of money.

1140
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, eyewitnesses have claimed that they've seen alien

1141
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 1: bodies in nineteen forty seven, but then they superimposed the

1142
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: physical characteristics of the grays, which didn't emerge until the sixties.

1143
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 2: And seventies, which is kind of crazy.

1144
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're getting a lot of mileage out of this

1145
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 3: because there's there's this dude on TikTok who he calls

1146
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 3: himself the atl Alien, and this this dude who just

1147
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:02,840
Speaker 3: were a straight up like gray costume but he's talking

1148
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 3: like he's from Atlanta the whole time, but like lightly

1149
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:10,280
Speaker 3: doing like alien coded shit on there, which is pretty

1150
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 3: fucking funny.

1151
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 2: But yeah, which is interesting too.

1152
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 3: How like that one like does incredibly well because people

1153
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 3: are like, oh yeah, man, like that's what an alien

1154
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 3: looks like.

1155
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: There is something about like the late seventies early eighties,

1156
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 1: Carl Jung wrote a book called Flying Saucers, a Modern

1157
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 1: Myth of Things Seen in the Sky. He was interested

1158
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: in this just from like the shared consciousness, shared unconscious realm,

1159
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 1: but it again got published in nineteen seventy eight and

1160
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: was all about like this being an archetype in a

1161
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 1: universal image or pattern of thought that represents the collective

1162
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 1: unconscious of all human beings. And his read on it

1163
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 1: was that this is like coming from people having a

1164
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: desire for there to be something larger, some larger meaning,

1165
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 1: and like having lost their lost religion as an option

1166
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 1: for that thing, which makes sense to me.

1167
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 3: But it's like, do you see like that the interest

1168
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 3: in it changes like between like pre Cold War and

1169
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 3: post Cold War, Like what those sort of stressors are

1170
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 3: on a society that like kind of allow this kind

1171
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 3: of thought to proliferate like that, you know, like as

1172
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 3: I know so much of like like you're saying, those

1173
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 3: early things were like it's the Russians or whatever, like

1174
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:29,840
Speaker 3: there was something seemingly rooted in reality that allowed people

1175
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 3: to have that momentum. And I'm curious what that you know,

1176
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 3: what those factors were.

1177
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 4: Well, I think the Roswell crash is answered to your

1178
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 4: question because the actual thing they were doing in Roswell,

1179
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 4: the actual thing that crash was just a big weather

1180
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 4: balloon that had a bunch of centers on it because

1181
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:49,880
Speaker 4: they were trying to detect Soviet nuclear tests that would

1182
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,920
Speaker 4: be like radiation that they could detect when it crashed.

1183
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 4: That was a classified program, so they covered it up

1184
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 4: saying it was a weather balloon or something where it

1185
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 4: clearly was more it was isn't exactly that, But when

1186
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 4: rumors started going around that it was a UFO, they

1187
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 4: were happy to let that get out there. But think

1188
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 4: about the truth of the matter that our enemies and

1189
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 4: US had developed a weapon that could vaporize a city

1190
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,479
Speaker 4: in the blink of an eye, and they can drop

1191
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 4: it on you at any moment. Think about how much

1192
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 4: scarier that is than four aliens one visited Earth and

1193
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 4: are such incompetent flyers that they crashed from the desert

1194
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 4: on a nice day. Like you prefer the aliens over

1195
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 4: the real doomsday device that we had just invented like this,

1196
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 4: it was brand new. You know, nuclear weapons are terrifying.

1197
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 4: This is so much more fun. There's of course you

1198
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 4: gravitate towards this the thing that's scary, but it's scary

1199
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 4: in a way that's actually very easy to understand. The

1200
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 4: travelers from another planet and hopeful.

1201
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 1: In a way because they have better technology than us

1202
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 1: and they haven't just destroyed us. So like that's always

1203
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 1: been my like hopeful interpretation of if aliens are here.

1204
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 2: They are you know, the.

1205
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: Government is covering it up because they want you to

1206
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 1: believe that any any civilization with a more superior technology

1207
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 1: is going to just destroy because they can. There's all

1208
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 1: capture and conquer and colonize. Yeah, and so like, if

1209
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 1: there are aliens here, and if they've been here with

1210
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 1: superior technology for the past, you know, since the forties.

1211
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: That makes it seem like, oh, maybe you guys are

1212
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 1: actually completely fucking wrong and we shouldn't have nuclear weapons.

1213
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 1: So that that was like sort of my moral universe

1214
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 1: that I wanted to like put the aliens on to

1215
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, we're we're wrong the way we're currently.

1216
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 3: That's how my aunt would always tell me, because she's

1217
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:53,720
Speaker 3: big into aliens and she's like from a young age,

1218
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 3: she's like, no, they're here to watch over.

1219
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 2: That's that's the point.

1220
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I Also like the idea that they're

1221
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 3: they're here and they're tech knowledge is kind of made

1222
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 3: so that tastes taking a real long time for them

1223
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 3: to finish.

1224
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 4: They're always crashing, and the fact that they're still like

1225
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:13,320
Speaker 4: antal probing people seventy some years later. It's like, you've

1226
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 4: got all of the data at.

1227
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 2: This point, you know what it looks like.

1228
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a point clear, you're just doing this.

1229
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like we can take someone's temperature with a

1230
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 3: laser without even touching their body these days, So like,

1231
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:28,440
Speaker 3: what's really going on, guys?

1232
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 1: There is a young Gian theory that this actually the

1233
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 1: shape of the alien face actually comes from Frederick Malstrom,

1234
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 1: who says that human babies are pre programmed to recognize

1235
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 1: their mother's face and it's an important survival advantage selected

1236
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 1: by millions of years of evolution. So deep inside of

1237
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 1: baby's brain or deep inside of baby's brain is the

1238
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 1: blurry image of a woman's face as seen from a

1239
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 1: newborn's perspective. And this is like where the gray alien

1240
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 1: face comes from. Because the baby's mother tucks her chin

1241
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 1: to look down at the nursing infant, her chin naturally

1242
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 1: appears smaller. It's like a very cool sounding theory that

1243
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 1: is not at all how perspective works. If I'm looking

1244
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:18,960
Speaker 1: from below someone's face, they're going to look like they

1245
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:23,519
Speaker 1: have a giant jaw and like not a tiny, nonexistent nose,

1246
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 1: but their nose is going to look massive.

1247
01:08:25,400 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah that's true.

1248
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, and I don't think it needs to

1249
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:33,679
Speaker 4: be that complicated. Yeah, because like in the horror novels

1250
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 4: I write, one of the bad guys are shadow people.

1251
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 4: They're just shadowy figures. And I will occasionally get fan

1252
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 4: mail from somebody saying I saw one of these. It's

1253
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 4: like a shadow and it just had eyes. It's like, no,

1254
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 4: I didn't invent that. It's a very common hallucination all

1255
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:52,640
Speaker 4: over the world because your brain thinks you're in the

1256
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 4: room with somebody, but there's not actually anybody there, so

1257
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:57,760
Speaker 4: it just makes like a shape when you're like, it's

1258
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:00,200
Speaker 4: like a sleep paralysis thing, and so it just makes

1259
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 4: a shape out of the corner of your eye, and

1260
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 4: the only thing it knows to do is just like

1261
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 4: a dark figure. And then you're always because we're social animals,

1262
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 4: we're always looking to the eyes because that's where you

1263
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 4: look at it, and you look in their eyes. So

1264
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:14,120
Speaker 4: it's just like you have a vague suggestion of eyes

1265
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 4: well a gray Like if you take a toddler and

1266
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:19,439
Speaker 4: asks them to draw a face, they're not going to

1267
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:21,560
Speaker 4: start shading out the nose and everything. It's going to

1268
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 4: be a circle eye mouth. It's just a simplified face.

1269
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 4: And like clown makeup, they do the same thing. They

1270
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 4: put big colorful like they make their eyes bigger and

1271
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 4: a big cartoonish mouth. It's just a simplified, exaggerated face

1272
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:39,719
Speaker 4: that your brain is obviously programmed to recognize from birth

1273
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 4: because we're you know, that's how we function.

1274
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, So there you have it. That's where the grays

1275
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 1: come from it comes from us.

1276
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 3: Another gray from a biracial marriage. Also, you know what

1277
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:56,639
Speaker 3: I mean, a biracial union created this gray also.

1278
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:58,960
Speaker 2: So now I really have a respect I.

1279
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 3: Didn't just that of all the shit we talk, that

1280
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 3: detail blows my mind so much that like it's pre

1281
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:10,240
Speaker 3: loving versus Virginia. So for these people, they're like, we

1282
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 3: don't want to fuck the fucking lens over here, But

1283
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 3: there is such a I feel like there's like a

1284
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 3: beautiful dramatic film you can make from this that yeah

1285
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:21,719
Speaker 3: just kind of like plays with all this shit because

1286
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:24,759
Speaker 3: it's such an so so interesting, like learning that about.

1287
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 1: Is that filmmaker who made like The Witch and the

1288
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 1: Witch but spelled with two v's, is it Robert Robert Eggers? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1289
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: who uh. He like sets the movies inside like the

1290
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 1: world as it existed for those people, like with the

1291
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 1: magic that was real to them, like sixteen.

1292
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,479
Speaker 2: Thirties New England was fucking weird. Yeah yeah, yeah.

1293
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 1: I feel like if he put he would be a

1294
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 1: good person to like make that movie because that shit

1295
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 1: was very real to her. I do think it's it

1296
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 1: does seem to be the thing that we have the

1297
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:04,639
Speaker 1: hardest time grappling with is that like these things that

1298
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:10,639
Speaker 1: aren't true that people are saying happened are like they

1299
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 1: did happen as far as those people are concerned. And

1300
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 1: so yeah, with this couple, you know, the Hills, it

1301
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:20,639
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense that they would make this story

1302
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 1: up like they didn't want it, They didn't want the

1303
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:28,360
Speaker 1: attention at all. It like kind of happened through a

1304
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 1: backdoor wave of happening. But like you know that that

1305
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, because it was they believed it happened, even

1306
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 1: though it probably didn't happen.

1307
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 4: You know, I feel like there's some people out there

1308
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 4: saying that we've skipped over the detail of all the

1309
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:44,599
Speaker 4: physical evidence they had, like the marks in the car

1310
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 4: and the rifts on her dress, and they claimed there's

1311
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:50,000
Speaker 4: like a fine red dust all over everything, alien dust

1312
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 4: and the works around his growin. Yeah, but you understand

1313
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 4: that once they decide decided this had happened, everything gets

1314
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:02,800
Speaker 4: incorporated it into the story. So if their dog had

1315
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:05,559
Speaker 4: ran away a week later, that would have gotten looped

1316
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 4: into Oh yeah, the dog could sense it. We've been

1317
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 4: encountered and energy and she just you could tell she

1318
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 4: just wasn't right after that like anything that happened. If

1319
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 4: they had had a leak in their basement, they'd be like, yeah,

1320
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:20,400
Speaker 4: then the alien force caused the pipes to burst from

1321
01:12:20,439 --> 01:12:22,559
Speaker 4: the psychic energy that do you see what I mean?

1322
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:25,840
Speaker 4: Like everything, once you start examining everything around you, this

1323
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:28,759
Speaker 4: happens all the time. You just start. It all becomes

1324
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 4: part of this this mythology. Yeah.

1325
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Jason Pargin, great having you on to talk

1326
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:40,400
Speaker 1: about this subject. Where can people find you? Follow you,

1327
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 1: see you all that good stuff?

1328
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:44,880
Speaker 4: The Betty and Barney Hill story actually comes up in

1329
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:48,439
Speaker 4: my last book called I'm Starting to Worry about This

1330
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:52,759
Speaker 4: Black Box of doom us out in every possible format,

1331
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:55,720
Speaker 4: including paperback audio. You get a straight up have a

1332
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:58,880
Speaker 4: dude read it to you. Don't even have to don't

1333
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:00,640
Speaker 4: even have to read your so we can just have

1334
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:03,960
Speaker 4: somebody read it to you for a small, nice and

1335
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 4: easy like right into your brain.

1336
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:08,080
Speaker 2: Amazing.

1337
01:13:08,439 --> 01:13:08,759
Speaker 4: Uh?

1338
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:12,960
Speaker 1: And where they where can they find your more important work,

1339
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 1: your wrizzler work.

1340
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:15,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, with the.

1341
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:19,679
Speaker 3: Tiny hat and new new trademark gesture too, hopefully.

1342
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:20,280
Speaker 4: I am Jason.

1343
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 2: Don't underestimate the pipe, yeah.

1344
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 4: Jason K. Parsan on TikTok Instagram, Jason Parsan on Facebook.

1345
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:29,719
Speaker 4: Just type my name you'll get all of those links.

1346
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 4: I have two point three million followers now across the

1347
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:39,120
Speaker 4: short form video platforms YouTube. I'm on Twitter still, even

1348
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,799
Speaker 4: though I probably probably shouldn't be, probably not morally correct

1349
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:44,480
Speaker 4: for me to still have any talent on there. Yeah,

1350
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 4: are any of these clean? I don't know. Tell me

1351
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 4: tell me which right in to tell me which of

1352
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 4: the social media platforms are not evil? Let me know.

1353
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:54,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I check every day to find out what the

1354
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:58,479
Speaker 1: latest is. That turns out they're all fucking bad. Miles,

1355
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:00,160
Speaker 1: where can people find you?

1356
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 2: Find me on this? You're already subscribing to where you'll

1357
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:03,559
Speaker 2: find me?

1358
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 4: Uh?

1359
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 2: And I love you.

1360
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 4: So nice? All right.

1361
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:14,720
Speaker 2: I'm talking to listeners, Jack, I know, I just love

1362
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 2: that for you and to them.

1363
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you and I we have Well, we'll

1364
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 3: talk after this.

1365
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:20,240
Speaker 4: We got.

1366
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:25,599
Speaker 2: You didn't tell me the Hills were a biracial couple. Talk,

1367
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 2: all right.

1368
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to be back in a couple of minutes

1369
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 1: for my notebook. All in a bit, all right. That

1370
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 1: was our episode about the Grays. Thanks to Miles Gray

1371
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 1: and Jason Parson. Always so good to have Jason Back,

1372
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:58,400
Speaker 1: especially for these icon apps. Feels like the feels like

1373
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:02,360
Speaker 1: the old days of the Cracked podcast. All right, this

1374
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:04,759
Speaker 1: is the no No No, no no no book.

1375
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 4: Don't.

1376
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:09,799
Speaker 1: First of all, if you're asking why would these people

1377
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:13,400
Speaker 1: who see the grays make shit like this up? I

1378
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:18,160
Speaker 1: get that it's counterintuitive. I don't think they're always intentionally

1379
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 1: making it up, or even usually intentionally making it up.

1380
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 1: I highly recommend the documentary Capturing the Freedman's That's the

1381
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:28,880
Speaker 1: first thing that kind of blew my mind on the

1382
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:34,400
Speaker 1: sheer malleability of human memory and how we can kind

1383
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:37,800
Speaker 1: of recover things that we think happened to us that

1384
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 1: may not have actually happened. I'm sure there are believers

1385
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 1: in aliens who are annoyed by this episode.

1386
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:45,439
Speaker 2: I get it.

1387
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 1: I've personally been fascinated by the sightings of the new

1388
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 1: tic tac shaped UFOs, UAPs, whatever you want to call them,

1389
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:57,560
Speaker 1: at various times throughout the history of the daily Zeitgeist.

1390
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:00,759
Speaker 1: I've been kind of openly fascinated by those, the first

1391
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:06,160
Speaker 1: of the things from this UFO alien contact realm that

1392
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:10,120
Speaker 1: broke through into the mainstream media. I'm still fascinated by those.

1393
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 1: I still find the USS nimics sightings very weird. If

1394
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:17,680
Speaker 1: you don't know what that story is, go look it up.

1395
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:22,520
Speaker 1: They did a sixty minutes on it, not an unsolved mysteries,

1396
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:29,160
Speaker 1: A sixty minutes in which these serious naval aviators, not

1397
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:33,240
Speaker 1: high school creative writing teachers, not UFO book club members,

1398
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 1: the guys from Top Gun come on and say they

1399
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 1: witnessed a tic Tac shaped craft doing impossible things over

1400
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:44,559
Speaker 1: the ocean with their naked eye. I find that. I

1401
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:49,599
Speaker 1: find that very interesting. I find it interesting if they

1402
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:53,639
Speaker 1: didn't witness a weird tic Tac shaped UFO flying impossibly fast,

1403
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:58,559
Speaker 1: because then why did a bunch of naval aviators agree

1404
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:01,880
Speaker 1: to tell that. Why makes them look crazy? And if

1405
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 1: they did see that, what the fuck was it? I

1406
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 1: haven't heard a good explanation for either case. Maybe we'll

1407
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 1: cover that in the tic Tac shaped UFO's episode somewhere

1408
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 1: down the road. But this is the Grays episode, And

1409
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:20,160
Speaker 1: if you're mad, if you're a believer, I get it.

1410
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:23,719
Speaker 1: But this is just what I found in doing research

1411
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 1: on the Grays. My conclusion is that the reason that

1412
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:31,120
Speaker 1: so many people land on the same image is not

1413
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:34,800
Speaker 1: because they're seeing the same creatures. It's because of a

1414
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:42,200
Speaker 1: weird process of creative design by way of evolutionary natural

1415
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:47,920
Speaker 1: selection that's happening in our shared mimetic hive mind, which

1416
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:51,920
Speaker 1: is like almost more far fetched or it's very stra

1417
01:17:52,040 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 1: it's a very strange process. The big mystery for me

1418
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:58,559
Speaker 1: heading into this episode was, it's not just that the

1419
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:02,120
Speaker 1: people all see the same alien face and report it.

1420
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:05,640
Speaker 1: That the face they see makes sense. To me, that

1421
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:08,640
Speaker 1: is what a hyper intelligent alien would look like. In

1422
01:18:08,680 --> 01:18:12,719
Speaker 1: my mind, everyone who sees that can't be that smart,

1423
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:15,640
Speaker 1: you know, to come up with that same design. But

1424
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:19,720
Speaker 1: I wasn't making room for in my imagination. First of all,

1425
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:23,559
Speaker 1: all the stupid looking alien sightings that people made before

1426
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:27,040
Speaker 1: they all started seeing the grays. Stupid looking aliens people

1427
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:30,439
Speaker 1: are probably still seeing, and we're just not hearing about.

1428
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 1: The ones that get passed around and shared are the

1429
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:37,800
Speaker 1: ones that make sense enough to be scary, and we

1430
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:41,000
Speaker 1: have collectively settled on the grays, the ones that don't

1431
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 1: make sense and die off, and we never do episodes

1432
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 1: about they don't influence other people's sightings. The grays make sense,

1433
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:53,559
Speaker 1: they remain, they proliferate. There are aliens that I'm gonna

1434
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:57,679
Speaker 1: I'm gonna link off to in this PDF that look

1435
01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:01,719
Speaker 1: absurd that we never found out about because they look bad.

1436
01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:04,160
Speaker 1: They were the pitches in the writer's room of our

1437
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:09,640
Speaker 1: cultural unconsciousness that just got rejected. You know, I'm interested

1438
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:13,880
Speaker 1: in aliens. I never saw some of the like this

1439
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:18,639
Speaker 1: push button with legs is was incredible. Jason had actually

1440
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:21,519
Speaker 1: put in the dock a really good example of how

1441
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:26,360
Speaker 1: this kind of mind meld evolution works, not having to

1442
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 1: do with aliens, but just Jason Vorhe's very good example.

1443
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:34,920
Speaker 1: Jason Vorhees in the Friday of the Thirteenth series didn't

1444
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:37,600
Speaker 1: have a hockey mask. For the first two Friday the

1445
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:42,000
Speaker 1: Thirteenth movies, he was a gross swamp monster that jumps

1446
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,479
Speaker 1: out at the end of the first, a guy with

1447
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:47,439
Speaker 1: a I think a burlap sack on his head in

1448
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:51,280
Speaker 1: the second, which was spooky. But then in the third

1449
01:19:51,320 --> 01:19:56,360
Speaker 1: one he puts on a hockey mask. And now you

1450
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:58,400
Speaker 1: can get a knife and a hockey mask and go

1451
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 1: anywhere in the world and people will instantly recognize that

1452
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:07,120
Speaker 1: you are Jason. It's almost like, I mean, it's almost

1453
01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:11,400
Speaker 1: helpful for understanding how natural selection works. It's like a

1454
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:16,080
Speaker 1: random mutation in Friday the thirteenth three that allows a

1455
01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:20,320
Speaker 1: species to be better and survive. You know, if they

1456
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:24,040
Speaker 1: hadn't randomly found that mutation of this character and he

1457
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:26,160
Speaker 1: stayed a guy with a burlap bag on his head,

1458
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 1: you know, that character, that franchise would have probably died

1459
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 1: off like dozens of other slasher franchises, and it just

1460
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:37,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't be around anymore. And you know, that's how I

1461
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:41,439
Speaker 1: think we get the grace is a sort of writer's

1462
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 1: room process of pop cultural evolution. I guess I don't

1463
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:49,280
Speaker 1: think I forgot to cover that in the conversation, but

1464
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:51,960
Speaker 1: I guess I think it bears going over from a

1465
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:55,400
Speaker 1: couple of different angles, because it's sort of a mind fuck.

1466
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:58,439
Speaker 1: A couple other things I think I mentioned briefly the

1467
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:01,920
Speaker 1: idea that the late seventies in early eighties were the

1468
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:06,160
Speaker 1: bullshit factory era, the way the Axial Age was the

1469
01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 1: big religious and philosophical ideas era. Yeah, I just keep

1470
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:14,679
Speaker 1: coming across this in the research. I've talked before about

1471
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:18,760
Speaker 1: how the ik bin ein Berlina thing was from a

1472
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:23,080
Speaker 1: spy novel that came out in the early eighties. A

1473
01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 1: spy novel was just like, you know, people actually thought

1474
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:29,040
Speaker 1: Kennedy was saying I'm a jelly donut. That was just

1475
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:31,719
Speaker 1: totally made up for a spy novel. What was not true?

1476
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:34,680
Speaker 1: It just sounded kind of interesting. But yeah, a lot

1477
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:38,120
Speaker 1: of JFK conspiracies having to do with his assassination at

1478
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:41,839
Speaker 1: the Jelly Donut thing start cropping up late seventies, early eighties.

1479
01:21:42,400 --> 01:21:47,519
Speaker 1: Elvis's death conspiracies, which feel like a particular stretch to me,

1480
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:52,519
Speaker 1: start cropping up late seventies, early eighties. I just keep

1481
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:58,000
Speaker 1: noticing this time was a particularly fertile mass spreader event

1482
01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 1: for bullshit. Not sure why hit me with theories? Was

1483
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:05,400
Speaker 1: it just like a current event and like you know,

1484
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:08,800
Speaker 1: weird news magazine shows on TV? But yeah, So during

1485
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:11,080
Speaker 1: the research for this episode, I came across the fact

1486
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 1: that the Roswell incident was brought back into the spotlight

1487
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:17,519
Speaker 1: by two paranormal writers in the late seventies early eighties,

1488
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 1: And really that's when it started to become popular as

1489
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 1: a thing that people will you know, people had just

1490
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:28,200
Speaker 1: dropped it before. There's also an anecdote about Young like

1491
01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:32,840
Speaker 1: he wrote a book called Flying Saucers, a modern myth

1492
01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:35,120
Speaker 1: of things seen in the sky that people were like, oh,

1493
01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:36,720
Speaker 1: we're not going to publish this. He wrote it right

1494
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:39,760
Speaker 1: before his death in nineteen sixty one. It was published

1495
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:42,080
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight. They were just like going back

1496
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:45,160
Speaker 1: through the archive to find to find stuff and be

1497
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 1: like this smart person believed in UFOs and aliens. That's

1498
01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:53,839
Speaker 1: not actually what the book says, but people wanted to believe,

1499
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:56,559
Speaker 1: particularly in the late seventies early eighties.

1500
01:22:57,320 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 2: Last thing.

1501
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:01,600
Speaker 1: Finally, when we were first putting the dock together for

1502
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:04,960
Speaker 1: this episode, I had asked Jason why he thought so

1503
01:23:05,160 --> 01:23:09,160
Speaker 1: many people started having alien encounters all of a sudden

1504
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:12,360
Speaker 1: at the same time. So, I mean, yes, we've covered

1505
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:16,000
Speaker 1: how the alien, like, how we landed on that design,

1506
01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:18,479
Speaker 1: how we honed in on the grays being the design.

1507
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:22,479
Speaker 1: But a detail that I might have brushed past in

1508
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:25,759
Speaker 1: the conversation was that when we first started seeing UFOs

1509
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:30,160
Speaker 1: in the early twentieth century, people just believed they were

1510
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 1: experimental Russian aircraft. We weren't really doing the alien thing

1511
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:38,559
Speaker 1: at that time. So like, why suddenly did everyone go

1512
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:42,880
Speaker 1: alien crazy in the twentieth century and their first part

1513
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:45,839
Speaker 1: of the twenty first century. And I liked his answer

1514
01:23:46,680 --> 01:23:48,439
Speaker 1: that he wrote into the dock, so I just wanted

1515
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:50,719
Speaker 1: to read it here, he said. I think running into

1516
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 1: a strange creature from elsewhere is one of the fundamental

1517
01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:57,960
Speaker 1: experiences of any living thing. At some point in the past,

1518
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:01,160
Speaker 1: a primitive ancestor of humans ran into an alligator for

1519
01:24:01,200 --> 01:24:04,040
Speaker 1: the first time. That was an alien encounter. And if

1520
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:06,880
Speaker 1: it wasn't running into an unfamiliar predator, then it was

1521
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:11,200
Speaker 1: running into an unfamiliar disease or sensation. A volcano erupts

1522
01:24:11,240 --> 01:24:13,639
Speaker 1: and takes away the sun. The sun has run away.

1523
01:24:14,200 --> 01:24:16,839
Speaker 1: But as we chart more of the world, we still

1524
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:21,599
Speaker 1: expect that sensation of running into unfamiliar things. Sailors used

1525
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:24,600
Speaker 1: to imagine the ocean was full of sea monsters and mermaids.

1526
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:28,040
Speaker 1: When we charted the oceans, then we looked up to

1527
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:30,880
Speaker 1: the moon and wondered if there were moon creatures living

1528
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 1: up there. We have this fundamental curiosity and fear and

1529
01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:37,160
Speaker 1: awe of things out in the dark, because there was

1530
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 1: a time when it wasn't a fantasy. If you wandered

1531
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 1: too far into the woods, you would get eaten. As

1532
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:45,280
Speaker 1: we understand more and more of the world, we still

1533
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:47,960
Speaker 1: have that in our brains. The idea of the strange

1534
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:51,080
Speaker 1: and dangerous unknown, and it desired to commune with it

1535
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:54,680
Speaker 1: to imagine what's out there. It's perfectly natural. Even if

1536
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:57,720
Speaker 1: we could magically map every planet, we would just imagine

1537
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:01,080
Speaker 1: they're coming from another dimension or the few future or something.

1538
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:03,760
Speaker 1: It's not just me who wants to believe. It's not

1539
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:06,320
Speaker 1: just X Files fans who want to believe. There's a

1540
01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:11,920
Speaker 1: natural human yearning for something that we can't explain that's mysterious.

1541
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:14,679
Speaker 1: And I think there is plenty that we can't explain

1542
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:19,719
Speaker 1: that is mysterious out there personally, so I want to believe,

1543
01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:22,200
Speaker 1: and I still half believe personally me.

1544
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:25,519
Speaker 2: All Right, that was our episode on the Grays.

1545
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:32,000
Speaker 1: We are back on Monday with another new Icons episode.

1546
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:33,840
Speaker 1: I actually don't know which one it's going to be

1547
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:36,479
Speaker 1: quite yet, but I just want to say thank you

1548
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:40,960
Speaker 1: to Dave Ruse who helped with the research on this one,

1549
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:44,160
Speaker 1: thank you to Jason who provided research, and thank you

1550
01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:45,559
Speaker 1: as always to Brian the.

1551
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:50,000
Speaker 2: Editor for putting it all together. We're going to.

1552
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:53,480
Speaker 1: Be back later today with another episode of The Daily Zeitgeist,

1553
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:56,080
Speaker 1: and back next week with more Icons.

1554
01:25:56,200 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 2: Cocktail Done Bite