WEBVTT - Brandi Carlile and Tish Melton 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:23.596 Pushkin. Brandy Carlyle's knack for uplifting the musicians she loves 0:00:23.956 --> 0:00:27.916 is exemplary. After her own hard earned ascent to success 0:00:27.956 --> 0:00:30.996 over the course of seven studio albums, Brandy started to 0:00:31.036 --> 0:00:33.476 turn her sights to producing the albums for artists she 0:00:33.596 --> 0:00:37.996 deeply admires, including Tanya Tucker, who she's been unbroken record 0:00:37.996 --> 0:00:41.556 with in the past, but also Brandy Clark. Then there's 0:00:41.636 --> 0:00:45.516 Joni Mitchell, who, thanks to Brandy's encouragement, has recently made 0:00:45.636 --> 0:00:49.956 a glorious return to performing live. Brandy's passion for the 0:00:49.956 --> 0:00:53.676 project she works on is infectious. The latest is an 0:00:53.716 --> 0:00:56.556 EP she produced for an eighteen year old singer songwriter 0:00:56.796 --> 0:01:01.476 named Tish Melton. The EPs called When We're Older. Over 0:01:01.516 --> 0:01:04.356 the course of the five song collection, Tish pulls influence 0:01:04.396 --> 0:01:08.236 from artists like Phoebe Bridgers and Lucy Dakis. Tish, whose 0:01:08.276 --> 0:01:11.036 mom is the New York Times bestselling author Glennon Doyle, 0:01:11.276 --> 0:01:14.956 is teeming with talent on her EP, which includes heartfelt 0:01:14.996 --> 0:01:19.596 songs that expertly capture a wise beyond her years self assuredness. 0:01:20.116 --> 0:01:22.716 On today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Tish Melton and 0:01:22.756 --> 0:01:27.276 Brandy Carlyle about their creative partnership and the impermeable sense 0:01:27.316 --> 0:01:30.436 of self Brandy is found in both Tish and Joni Mitchell. 0:01:31.276 --> 0:01:36.236 And Brandy teases her upcoming collaboration album that she calls monumental, 0:01:37.156 --> 0:01:39.876 and she talks about why she thinks Beyonce might be 0:01:39.956 --> 0:01:47.156 country music's saving grace. This is broken record liner notes 0:01:47.156 --> 0:01:50.996 for the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Lea Rose's 0:01:51.036 --> 0:01:54.556 conversation with Tish Melton and Brandy Carlisle. 0:01:55.596 --> 0:01:57.836 Well, thank you both so much for doing this. I'm 0:01:57.836 --> 0:02:00.596 super excited to hear about how this album came to be. 0:02:01.516 --> 0:02:06.116 I guess let's start. Brandy, tell me how you first 0:02:06.476 --> 0:02:10.676 met Tish and how you then found out that she 0:02:11.076 --> 0:02:11.996 was a musician. 0:02:13.316 --> 0:02:16.436 Well, our families are friends, so that might make you 0:02:16.476 --> 0:02:19.676 think that, you know, because of proximity to one another, 0:02:19.756 --> 0:02:21.356 or just an affection that we have for one another, 0:02:21.396 --> 0:02:24.156 that that would draw us to work together, or me 0:02:24.236 --> 0:02:27.196 to't want to work with Tish, But actually's quite it's 0:02:27.276 --> 0:02:27.756 quite pure. 0:02:27.956 --> 0:02:28.716 Like I just. 0:02:29.156 --> 0:02:33.156 Saw her trajectory from this interested young person like learning 0:02:33.236 --> 0:02:36.756 an instrument and starting to sing covers, to like starting 0:02:36.756 --> 0:02:40.236 to write in really pure, interesting and unaffected ways to 0:02:40.356 --> 0:02:43.356 like actually becoming a damn good writer to becoming so 0:02:43.396 --> 0:02:46.036 impressed that I was like a bit jealous. And that's 0:02:46.476 --> 0:02:49.716 that's the point where we kind of met and decided 0:02:49.756 --> 0:02:52.676 to go in and record some things because why not, 0:02:52.756 --> 0:02:55.676 you know. Yeah, but it was a really natural trajectory 0:02:55.716 --> 0:03:00.156 of me gaining affection and then admiration for a songwriter 0:03:00.236 --> 0:03:03.756 that was honestly just impressing me, and proximity to our 0:03:03.756 --> 0:03:06.276 families kind of phased out as one of the reasons 0:03:07.036 --> 0:03:08.196 why we work together. 0:03:08.236 --> 0:03:11.356 In the end, I think Tish, Yeah, And then when 0:03:11.396 --> 0:03:14.556 you say she was writing in unaffected ways, what do 0:03:14.596 --> 0:03:15.196 you mean by that? 0:03:16.396 --> 0:03:19.956 Oh? I just mean that Tish is like a part 0:03:19.996 --> 0:03:23.036 of a songwriting contingency that I have like a lot 0:03:23.036 --> 0:03:24.836 of respect for, and I actually think she's one of 0:03:24.876 --> 0:03:29.116 the best at it, where she's so innocently and with 0:03:29.156 --> 0:03:32.676 such wisdom writing about exactly who she is right where 0:03:32.676 --> 0:03:35.756 she is. She's like the Eckhart Toll, you know, prime 0:03:35.796 --> 0:03:39.156 example of a songwriter like living in the moment in 0:03:39.196 --> 0:03:40.956 the age that they are, you know. And I remember 0:03:40.996 --> 0:03:43.756 coming up in roots in Americana and folk music and 0:03:43.796 --> 0:03:46.876 writing about hopin' trains and the dust bowl and shit. Like, 0:03:47.756 --> 0:03:52.276 you know, I wasn't talking about getting behind the wheel 0:03:52.276 --> 0:03:53.916 of a car for the first time and being sad 0:03:54.316 --> 0:03:56.796 that I was suddenly an adult, because that would have 0:03:56.836 --> 0:03:58.676 revealed that I was not, in fact an adult. And 0:03:58.716 --> 0:04:01.436 I wanted to be taken seriously in a way that 0:04:01.556 --> 0:04:04.476 Tish is unaffected by and it's I'm in awe of it. 0:04:04.836 --> 0:04:07.876 Tish, are you aware that you have that ability? 0:04:08.756 --> 0:04:11.396 I mean, but Brandy was one was the first person 0:04:11.436 --> 0:04:13.796 to tell me that. But my mom had always told 0:04:13.796 --> 0:04:15.996 me that I was a very like, unaffected, steady person. 0:04:16.756 --> 0:04:20.916 So I think the fact that that's transferred into my music, like, 0:04:20.956 --> 0:04:22.596 I'm glad that I have a sense of self that 0:04:22.676 --> 0:04:25.236 kind of carries through both those things you do. 0:04:25.396 --> 0:04:28.516 Yeah, Brandy, when you're working with Tish and you're reading 0:04:29.476 --> 0:04:32.556 her lyrics or you're hearing the lyrics, does it take 0:04:32.636 --> 0:04:34.796 you at all back to where you were when you 0:04:34.836 --> 0:04:37.436 were seventeen eighteen? And does it make you sort of 0:04:37.476 --> 0:04:40.076 like compare your experience. 0:04:40.636 --> 0:04:43.676 Yeah, kind of, especially when you know, we did an 0:04:43.676 --> 0:04:46.396 interview recently where somebody asked her who specifically she was 0:04:46.436 --> 0:04:48.356 singing about in a certain song, and I watched her 0:04:48.476 --> 0:04:50.996 kind of try to grasp for what that is, because 0:04:51.596 --> 0:04:54.556 I sense that feeling of like I remember writing really 0:04:55.116 --> 0:04:58.916 important and profound self revealing things about myself, probably not 0:04:59.036 --> 0:05:02.276 as concisely as Tish does, but with the same intent, 0:05:03.196 --> 0:05:07.156 and not knowing what it was about until fifteen years later, 0:05:07.156 --> 0:05:10.356 and looking back on it, realizing the person that influenced that, 0:05:10.556 --> 0:05:12.396 or the moment or the thing that influenced that, and 0:05:12.396 --> 0:05:15.796 also realize that these are habits I'm repeating into middle age. 0:05:16.476 --> 0:05:19.996 So yeah, I do. I see real parallels, and I 0:05:20.036 --> 0:05:23.476 see someone that's better than I was by any measure, 0:05:23.636 --> 0:05:26.836 just better, And I just think it's kind of intoxicating. 0:05:27.356 --> 0:05:31.396 I'm curious about your perspective now, having worked so much 0:05:31.436 --> 0:05:35.716 with Joni, who's eighty, and Tish is now you just 0:05:35.756 --> 0:05:39.876 turned eighteen, right, yeah, Sos is eighteen, and then Brandy, 0:05:39.916 --> 0:05:41.956 you're somewhere in the middle. I don't want to out you, 0:05:43.476 --> 0:05:48.316 but like, what has that made you think about the 0:05:48.356 --> 0:05:52.116 lifespan of emotional life? 0:05:52.356 --> 0:05:55.676 Yeah, it's weird. It kind of begins and ends similarly. 0:05:56.116 --> 0:05:59.836 I've seen that happen. It's like this rainbow of starting 0:05:59.876 --> 0:06:02.516 with a really strong sense of self, an impermeable sense 0:06:02.516 --> 0:06:04.516 of self, and then ending with a really strong and 0:06:04.636 --> 0:06:08.276 permeable sense of self and how those two shining moments 0:06:08.356 --> 0:06:11.196 might actually be thes that we ever shine. It might 0:06:11.236 --> 0:06:14.196 actually be the time that we're most important to the world, 0:06:14.516 --> 0:06:16.036 and those are the times we get listened to the 0:06:16.116 --> 0:06:19.276 least when we're either too young or too old. So 0:06:19.356 --> 0:06:23.316 I really do see this just incredible commonality. And that's 0:06:23.316 --> 0:06:29.156 why I've really loved drawing young people to Jony physically 0:06:29.196 --> 0:06:31.596 to Joni, to her to sit at her feet within 0:06:31.596 --> 0:06:33.316 a guitar and sing their songs for her, like in 0:06:33.316 --> 0:06:36.476 her living room, and watch that exchange of purity and 0:06:36.716 --> 0:06:38.836 energy and knowing that, like, yeah, this might actually be 0:06:38.876 --> 0:06:39.516 a sweet spot. 0:06:39.916 --> 0:06:42.516 Can you tell us about any like, any young artists 0:06:42.556 --> 0:06:45.276 that you've brought to collaborate with Joni or just to 0:06:45.276 --> 0:06:46.796 sit with her play with her. 0:06:46.996 --> 0:06:49.956 Oh yeah, I mean just the most recent one would 0:06:50.036 --> 0:06:53.436 just be at the Grammys, just being on that floor 0:06:53.436 --> 0:06:56.996 with Joan and seeing all these incredible young songwriters. And 0:06:57.036 --> 0:06:59.716 I do think I'm not being hyperbolic when I say 0:06:59.716 --> 0:07:02.156 I think we're in a real moment, like a Laurel 0:07:02.196 --> 0:07:06.196 Canyon level moment of self revelation and songwriting and Tish 0:07:06.276 --> 0:07:08.396 is a huge part of this, like I think one 0:07:08.396 --> 0:07:12.196 of the strongest, most powerful voices doing it, And so 0:07:12.276 --> 0:07:16.156 I really want her ep to be heard by people 0:07:16.196 --> 0:07:18.156 of all ages, because I think she's very important. But 0:07:18.356 --> 0:07:20.116 sitting on the floor of the Grammys and watching those 0:07:20.116 --> 0:07:22.756 young artists wreck, they knew it. They knew before we 0:07:22.876 --> 0:07:25.396 got there. They have her lyrics tattooed on their arms 0:07:25.396 --> 0:07:28.356 and shit, you know, Like Gracie Abrams walked up to 0:07:28.996 --> 0:07:31.236 me and she said something about how she likes my 0:07:31.316 --> 0:07:33.756 music or whatever, and I completely shrugged it off. I 0:07:33.756 --> 0:07:36.956 didn't even like actually had to write her something and apologize. 0:07:37.316 --> 0:07:41.116 I just immediately knew what you need, what you're here for, honestly, 0:07:41.956 --> 0:07:45.276 is to be introduced to Joni, you know. So I 0:07:45.436 --> 0:07:47.636 just like didn't even listen to her. I just took 0:07:47.636 --> 0:07:50.436 her by the hand that I said, Jony, this is 0:07:50.476 --> 0:07:54.716 a beautiful songwriter, this is a beautiful young person that 0:07:55.316 --> 0:07:56.956 you mean really a lot to and I want to 0:07:56.956 --> 0:07:59.156 introduce you guys. And so Jennie was lovely and they 0:07:59.156 --> 0:08:01.356 took a picture and it. You became a big moment 0:08:01.716 --> 0:08:04.076 for Gracie in her life. And I've got to facilitate 0:08:04.076 --> 0:08:07.036 a few of those moments of like full circle connectedness 0:08:07.076 --> 0:08:09.236 between the two souls that know who they are and 0:08:09.236 --> 0:08:11.476 get listened to the least, the oldest and the youngest. 0:08:11.916 --> 0:08:13.076 That's so incredible. 0:08:13.356 --> 0:08:15.396 Yeah, we've seen it happen, you know. The Joni jams 0:08:15.396 --> 0:08:19.196 have been really cool. And I remember watching Maggie Rodgers 0:08:19.236 --> 0:08:22.356 have the same experience and Harry Styles have the same experience, 0:08:22.956 --> 0:08:24.876 and then we've all had the same experience. You know. 0:08:25.796 --> 0:08:28.956 I think that bringing older and younger people together is 0:08:28.996 --> 0:08:31.316 like paramount and it finally feels possible. 0:08:31.836 --> 0:08:35.716 Yeah, it was just so special seeing Brandy introduce Joni 0:08:36.116 --> 0:08:38.516 and being so close to her, and then seeing like 0:08:38.596 --> 0:08:41.316 the entire musical family that I've been introduced to just 0:08:41.356 --> 0:08:43.796 these past couple of years and spent so much time 0:08:43.876 --> 0:08:47.316 with on stage with her while she's which like Joni 0:08:47.356 --> 0:08:49.556 Mitchell is like the start of all the songwriting that 0:08:49.636 --> 0:08:52.716 everyone's doing. And I feel like, like Brandy said, what 0:08:52.756 --> 0:08:56.836 everyone's really returning back to now and then they're seeing 0:08:56.876 --> 0:08:59.236 both sides now. I was like it was just all 0:08:59.276 --> 0:09:02.036 too like I just lost it and I did not 0:09:02.156 --> 0:09:04.076 recover for like, I just had to sit there in 0:09:04.116 --> 0:09:05.276 silence afterwards. 0:09:05.476 --> 0:09:06.716 So I wish you'd been there with me. 0:09:06.956 --> 0:09:07.636 I know I was. 0:09:07.716 --> 0:09:09.716 I said I wasn't there, like I was telling my mom, 0:09:10.196 --> 0:09:12.196 I was like, I feel like I should have been there, 0:09:12.196 --> 0:09:14.236 Like it feels like that I was supposed to be there. 0:09:14.876 --> 0:09:17.516 But there'll be another opportunity, I hope. 0:09:18.116 --> 0:09:18.476 Dude. 0:09:18.636 --> 0:09:19.676 It was pretty special. 0:09:20.556 --> 0:09:24.836 She's come up more in Broken Record conversations and interviews 0:09:24.876 --> 0:09:29.316 than any other artist, hands down, from every genre. Everybody 0:09:29.516 --> 0:09:34.036 always references Joni Mitchell, and it's just it's just incredible, 0:09:34.076 --> 0:09:35.116 the power and the reach. 0:09:35.356 --> 0:09:38.196 She's like poet Laureette, like for our entire industry, Like 0:09:38.316 --> 0:09:42.156 there's everybody can recognize themselves in her in one way 0:09:42.236 --> 0:09:43.716 or another, and she's just like cool. 0:09:44.356 --> 0:09:47.116 Do you think she gets it or it doesn't matter if. 0:09:46.996 --> 0:09:49.436 She accepts it And she gets it, but she's not 0:09:49.596 --> 0:09:52.636 heady about it, like she doesn't want to dissect it. 0:09:52.756 --> 0:09:55.996 She just wants to like be Joni Mitchell. And there's 0:09:56.036 --> 0:10:01.356 just something not unlike you Tish, very steady about Joan nowadays. 0:10:01.756 --> 0:10:05.196 Yeah, thank you Brandy for bringing her back into public life. 0:10:05.636 --> 0:10:08.356 Oh my god, I'm just got I'm like, I'm Robin Man, 0:10:08.396 --> 0:10:11.316 She's Batman. I'm following her around, just going this is 0:10:11.356 --> 0:10:12.556 the coolest shit I've ever seen. 0:10:12.956 --> 0:10:15.076 It's so cool how it's developed. I've heard you tell 0:10:15.076 --> 0:10:17.396 the whole story about how at first you weren't like 0:10:17.516 --> 0:10:19.516 the biggest fan when you were first getting together with 0:10:19.596 --> 0:10:22.676 Catherine right, and Catherine was like red flag, like, how 0:10:22.716 --> 0:10:24.196 can you not be into Joni Mitchell? 0:10:24.796 --> 0:10:28.276 Yeah, Well it speaks to this exact thing that Tish 0:10:28.796 --> 0:10:31.956 is so good at and so aware of that I 0:10:31.996 --> 0:10:34.636 wasn't aware of, which is that Joni Mitchell smacked of 0:10:34.716 --> 0:10:38.316 vulnerability to me, and that made me very uncomfortable. It 0:10:38.316 --> 0:10:41.996 made me uncomfortable. I was uncomfortable with my feelings. I 0:10:42.036 --> 0:10:47.196 was uncomfortable with my gender, and Joni kind of like 0:10:47.356 --> 0:10:50.156 opening herself up for the whole world to see made 0:10:50.196 --> 0:10:51.636 me feel like I would have to do that too 0:10:51.676 --> 0:10:55.276 if I listened for too long. And I wanted to 0:10:55.356 --> 0:10:58.916 be a different kind of artist at that time, and 0:10:58.956 --> 0:11:01.756 so I was a late bloomer. And I'm so envious 0:11:01.796 --> 0:11:04.716 of the fact that there's this whole wave of songwriters 0:11:04.716 --> 0:11:07.836 now that are not late bloomers and that have accepted 0:11:07.876 --> 0:11:11.356 the gift of their feelings destigmatized by this person, whereas 0:11:11.396 --> 0:11:14.836 I was rejecting it. And when I stopped rejecting it. 0:11:14.916 --> 0:11:17.076 It made me ready for a lot of what happened 0:11:17.156 --> 0:11:19.316 to me then in my life, you know, from getting 0:11:19.316 --> 0:11:21.636 married to being a mother. I'm not saying Joni Mitchell 0:11:21.676 --> 0:11:23.636 made all those things possible. I'm just saying she was 0:11:23.676 --> 0:11:26.636 one of the steps along the way that made it 0:11:26.636 --> 0:11:28.356 so that I could actually accept that I was a 0:11:28.396 --> 0:11:29.516 feeling person. 0:11:30.596 --> 0:11:33.276 It's incredible you have one thing to sort of point 0:11:33.356 --> 0:11:35.516 to that started the domino effect. 0:11:36.196 --> 0:11:38.356 Yeah, and then it ended this way that it ended 0:11:38.396 --> 0:11:42.196 with me actually being able to be by her side 0:11:42.316 --> 0:11:43.596 in times that she's vulnerable. 0:11:43.636 --> 0:11:47.756 You know. Yeah, pretty cool, super cool. So when you 0:11:47.796 --> 0:11:52.716 were starting to record Tish's EP, did you Brandy bring 0:11:53.196 --> 0:11:55.716 any sounds or any music that you wanted Tish to 0:11:55.756 --> 0:11:59.396 hear and same Tish. Did you bring anything to Brandy 0:11:59.476 --> 0:12:03.116 that you wanted sort of like reference pieces? 0:12:03.716 --> 0:12:04.196 Tish did. 0:12:04.636 --> 0:12:07.356 Yeah, I wrot a lot, Like I think that was 0:12:07.396 --> 0:12:08.876 like a helpful Like I think Brandy and I were 0:12:08.916 --> 0:12:12.036 on this page like from the very beginning about recording. 0:12:12.036 --> 0:12:13.756 I think part of the reason was because I had 0:12:13.796 --> 0:12:17.116 so many different reference people because I'm just like a fangirl, 0:12:17.156 --> 0:12:19.196 like I just I go to so many concerts, and 0:12:19.196 --> 0:12:21.596 I'm such a fan of all of these artists, and 0:12:21.676 --> 0:12:23.716 so I didn't think too much about it. But I 0:12:23.836 --> 0:12:26.956 just brought in like a playlist of songs that was like, 0:12:26.956 --> 0:12:29.916 like my like the clearness of Lizzie mccapine's vocals, I 0:12:29.956 --> 0:12:32.516 would really like my vocals and stuff like that, or 0:12:32.556 --> 0:12:34.956 like the drums in this song, or like the guitar 0:12:35.076 --> 0:12:36.716 in this song, or the feeling of this song, the 0:12:36.756 --> 0:12:39.996 outro of this song. I think that directed the production 0:12:40.076 --> 0:12:41.716 of Law, especially on like the day when we were 0:12:41.756 --> 0:12:42.316 tracking it. 0:12:42.756 --> 0:12:46.316 Yeah, Tish really knows, like really knows what she likes 0:12:47.116 --> 0:12:49.156 and is very clear, Like she doesn't just send you 0:12:49.196 --> 0:12:50.476 a song and go, how do you feel when you 0:12:50.476 --> 0:12:51.916 listen to this? She goes, I want you to listen 0:12:51.916 --> 0:12:54.076 to this vocal sound, and I want you to hear 0:12:54.356 --> 0:12:57.356 this outro this many bars in and you know it's 0:12:57.396 --> 0:13:01.636 not even the guitar, it's the bell that you barely 0:13:01.676 --> 0:13:04.716 hear in the outro. Like she's that specific about my God. Yeah, 0:13:04.756 --> 0:13:07.036 production sounds and styles. I think you'll be a producer 0:13:07.116 --> 0:13:08.396 or self produced some day too. 0:13:08.556 --> 0:13:08.756 Yeah. 0:13:08.796 --> 0:13:11.236 I listened to the end of Scott Street by Phoebe 0:13:11.316 --> 0:13:13.316 Bridgers and I was like, just listen to the child 0:13:13.396 --> 0:13:16.636 the bell that's like that's like representing her childhood, and 0:13:16.716 --> 0:13:18.756 like the little hard like the bike. 0:13:18.876 --> 0:13:19.396 Oh my god. 0:13:19.516 --> 0:13:21.716 Yeah, I was like that feeling like that's how I 0:13:21.756 --> 0:13:25.036 wanted the sober outro to feel like that emotional or 0:13:25.076 --> 0:13:27.916 like that, like that one sound just brings you back 0:13:27.956 --> 0:13:31.196 to like your childhood Street, which is like exactly what 0:13:31.196 --> 0:13:32.996 that song does. Like, there's a couple songs that I 0:13:33.076 --> 0:13:35.836 just don't let myself listen to very often because I 0:13:35.916 --> 0:13:37.476 like don't want to get sick of them, and I 0:13:37.516 --> 0:13:39.316 also don't want to feel sad. 0:13:39.796 --> 0:13:42.556 And Scott Street is one of those songs. 0:13:42.916 --> 0:13:44.516 My god, you love that song. 0:13:44.636 --> 0:13:45.356 It's so good. 0:13:46.036 --> 0:13:48.636 Yeah. And it was cool because No, I didn't bring 0:13:48.716 --> 0:13:51.116 any references to the table and tell she would play 0:13:51.156 --> 0:13:54.596 me those things, because what would happened is, you know, 0:13:54.716 --> 0:13:58.276 I already felt a little underqualified to be the producer 0:13:58.316 --> 0:14:00.396 for Tish on this project, just because I felt like, 0:14:00.476 --> 0:14:04.716 sonically and just age wise that she was kind of 0:14:05.156 --> 0:14:07.436 in a realm that I didn't really understand yet, you know. 0:14:07.916 --> 0:14:11.836 And so when she started playing me Phoebe Bridgers, I'd 0:14:11.876 --> 0:14:14.996 be like, oh, you like this, check out Elliot Smith 0:14:15.836 --> 0:14:17.636 or you know, she'd play me these bands and I'd 0:14:17.676 --> 0:14:19.956 be like, oh, you wait until I introduce you to 0:14:20.036 --> 0:14:23.836 Team Dresh and Slater Kenny. Well, we're about to get 0:14:23.876 --> 0:14:25.876 all up in the butchies now, and like you're gonna 0:14:25.876 --> 0:14:28.676 listen to this music you know from like Portland and Seattle. 0:14:28.716 --> 0:14:30.916 That was like in my foundations, and I realized that, 0:14:31.036 --> 0:14:34.036 like it kind of we kind of have the same heroes, 0:14:34.196 --> 0:14:38.116 even if they're separated by a generation or two. Music 0:14:38.196 --> 0:14:40.556 is so ahless that you can just sort of come 0:14:40.596 --> 0:14:43.276 across those divides if you can see who influenced too. 0:14:44.076 --> 0:14:45.036 So it was really cool. 0:14:45.116 --> 0:14:47.436 Yeah, what did you think of the older stuff, Tish? 0:14:48.156 --> 0:14:50.236 I mean, I'm like such a music nerd that, like 0:14:50.676 --> 0:14:54.076 I like was well aware of like Elliott being such 0:14:54.156 --> 0:14:56.796 like an influence to Phoebe. Like I just like do 0:14:56.996 --> 0:14:59.716 like I just do research when like I just know 0:14:59.836 --> 0:15:02.516 it's it's horrible. I just am like constantly doing research 0:15:02.556 --> 0:15:04.876 on everyone's like personal life of like the musicians that 0:15:04.956 --> 0:15:08.276 I know and like their influences. So I knew that, 0:15:08.396 --> 0:15:10.596 but there's a lot of stuff that like you wouldn't 0:15:10.636 --> 0:15:13.076 think that it related. Like remember when you showed me 0:15:13.116 --> 0:15:15.196 to call your girlfriend's song that was like a cover 0:15:15.276 --> 0:15:17.636 of another song, and it's like, I don't even remember 0:15:17.676 --> 0:15:19.676 what song you were, Like, Oh, this is influenced by that, 0:15:20.156 --> 0:15:23.276 But there's so many different aspects of it that like connected. 0:15:22.876 --> 0:15:23.916 And you wouldn't expect it to. 0:15:24.636 --> 0:15:28.676 Yeah, but yeah, I think that like Phoebe's influences being 0:15:28.836 --> 0:15:29.836 Brandy's influences. 0:15:29.876 --> 0:15:31.676 I think that that pipeline was really cool. 0:15:32.316 --> 0:15:34.956 It revealed itself in the studio and it made me 0:15:35.036 --> 0:15:39.516 feel so cool, Like I felt suddenly so capable of 0:15:39.556 --> 0:15:42.596 doing the job and not letting Tish down because not 0:15:42.716 --> 0:15:44.836 only did I know what she was wanting, but I 0:15:44.916 --> 0:15:48.156 knew where it came from even And that is something 0:15:48.196 --> 0:15:52.036 I'm going to take forward with me forever, is to 0:15:52.116 --> 0:15:54.796 not have that kind of an adequacy creep in to 0:15:54.956 --> 0:15:56.716 my thinking anymore. Mm hmm. 0:15:57.276 --> 0:16:00.276 I saw Brandy. Your name is all over the credits 0:16:00.596 --> 0:16:05.236 on the EP. You're playing dulcimer, you're playing banjo, acoustic guitar, 0:16:05.276 --> 0:16:10.156 electric guitar, backup vocals. Can you describe your approach as 0:16:10.196 --> 0:16:13.996 a producer. A producer can mean so many things. Yeah, 0:16:13.996 --> 0:16:15.356 how do you approach the job? 0:16:16.196 --> 0:16:18.796 Well, it's so by artist. You know, I've had projects 0:16:18.836 --> 0:16:21.516 I've produced where I haven't touched an instrument. I'm not 0:16:21.636 --> 0:16:26.196 a ficionado. I'm not an engineer, So I have like 0:16:26.236 --> 0:16:28.916 a few engineers that I just they're like limbs to me. 0:16:29.036 --> 0:16:32.756 I love them and trust them so much. With Tish, though, 0:16:32.796 --> 0:16:35.276 it's because it's always by artist, like per artist. It 0:16:35.316 --> 0:16:39.756 was like a totally unique process where we basically started 0:16:39.876 --> 0:16:42.476 one day at Shangri La, which is the last place 0:16:42.516 --> 0:16:44.996 I was when I did this podcast. We started in 0:16:45.116 --> 0:16:47.996 one day and we got basic tracks where we tried 0:16:48.036 --> 0:16:50.996 to like strap this band to Tish's innate rhythm while 0:16:50.996 --> 0:16:53.596 she played guitar, and we kind of created basic tracks. 0:16:53.636 --> 0:16:57.356 Some we used, some we didn't. When we left Shangri La, 0:16:57.436 --> 0:17:00.196 we came to Seattle in this weird little treehouse room 0:17:00.196 --> 0:17:02.676 that you see up here, and we just basically became 0:17:02.756 --> 0:17:07.796 mixologists like alchemists building rocket ships and turning metal into 0:17:07.836 --> 0:17:11.036 other metals, and we just created sounds together. So I'm 0:17:11.076 --> 0:17:13.436 on there like as playing instruments, but really what it 0:17:13.476 --> 0:17:15.596 was was just both of us experimenting with instruments we 0:17:15.596 --> 0:17:17.436 didn't even really fully know how to play all the time. 0:17:18.156 --> 0:17:21.356 And I love when those kinds of sounds come across. 0:17:21.356 --> 0:17:25.796 You can't fake that shit. You can't fake that seeking ambiance. 0:17:26.596 --> 0:17:28.236 And that's one of my favorite parts about this record 0:17:28.276 --> 0:17:30.876 is you just hear scratches and pings and sounds that 0:17:31.116 --> 0:17:34.596 aren't accidents, that are found in joy and fun. 0:17:35.036 --> 0:17:36.876 And how about you, Brandy, are you starting to work 0:17:36.916 --> 0:17:37.756 on your own stuff? 0:17:38.476 --> 0:17:43.796 I just finished a project that is like monumental for 0:17:43.876 --> 0:17:45.476 me that I can't talk about but you'll find out 0:17:45.516 --> 0:17:48.636 about very soon. And I did some of the great, 0:17:49.116 --> 0:17:52.116 my opinion, the most important writing I've ever done, and 0:17:52.436 --> 0:17:55.276 I feel very satisfied as a writer in that sense. 0:17:55.316 --> 0:17:59.316 I can't believe the things that got accomplished in that 0:17:59.396 --> 0:17:59.956 three weeks. 0:18:01.196 --> 0:18:04.796 Is it a collaboration album with an older artist who 0:18:04.796 --> 0:18:08.036 we all know and love it very well? Maybe a 0:18:08.116 --> 0:18:10.436 legacy artist, Wow, that's incredible. 0:18:09.996 --> 0:18:14.076 But there is nothing legacy about it. It's it's very 0:18:14.796 --> 0:18:17.316 here and now and just enormous. 0:18:17.636 --> 0:18:18.356 That's exciting. 0:18:18.756 --> 0:18:21.036 It's very exciting. So that's like my next like big project, 0:18:21.036 --> 0:18:25.276 and then after that, I'm gonna rediscover who Brandy Carlile is. 0:18:25.836 --> 0:18:28.036 Like everything like I want to do. I want different hair, 0:18:28.116 --> 0:18:29.116 I want different clothes. 0:18:29.236 --> 0:18:30.596 Dude, you have good hair right now? 0:18:31.036 --> 0:18:33.956 Oh do I I'm wondering. Like I tried a new 0:18:33.956 --> 0:18:36.076 thing at the Grammys. I liked it, but. 0:18:36.196 --> 0:18:37.916 Oh my god, I was like, I was like, I 0:18:37.956 --> 0:18:39.996 thought I was watching like a rerun of an old 0:18:40.036 --> 0:18:42.636 Grammys or something, because your hair was so different. Like 0:18:42.676 --> 0:18:44.716 I thought it looked great, but I was like, wait, like, 0:18:45.196 --> 0:18:47.396 I like didn't even recognize you for a second. 0:18:47.996 --> 0:18:49.676 I'm trying to figure out who I am next. I 0:18:49.676 --> 0:18:51.916 don't know you know, I know who you are. That's 0:18:51.916 --> 0:18:55.956 why I'm not taking any more production rolls for a while. 0:18:56.756 --> 0:18:58.516 I'm gonna figure it out, though. Tish you could tell 0:18:58.556 --> 0:18:59.876 me who I am next, or at least give me 0:18:59.916 --> 0:19:00.956 some tips on a haircut. 0:19:01.596 --> 0:19:04.276 How are you feeling about everybody doing country albums all 0:19:04.276 --> 0:19:06.756 of a sudden, Like Beyonce just announced she's doing her 0:19:06.796 --> 0:19:10.516 country album and Lana del Rey's doing a country album. 0:19:10.956 --> 0:19:13.596 Well, I think that country music as an institution is 0:19:13.636 --> 0:19:17.076 fundamentally broken. So just tell you how I really feel 0:19:17.116 --> 0:19:19.636 about that. I think it's a problem. It's a cultural 0:19:19.716 --> 0:19:22.196 problem we have in America is the way that that 0:19:22.316 --> 0:19:26.316 genre has played itself out as an ostracizing political tool 0:19:26.356 --> 0:19:28.476 in a way to divide people. I'm not okay with it. 0:19:28.516 --> 0:19:31.956 I don't like country radio as it pertains to music 0:19:32.756 --> 0:19:35.636 and culture. I'm a country person, you know. I'm a 0:19:35.716 --> 0:19:41.116 chicken farming, fisherman, cowgirl, and I love rural music, rural lyrics, 0:19:41.116 --> 0:19:44.716 Americana music, roots music, folk music, and I love how 0:19:45.716 --> 0:19:48.716 marginalized people, particularly people of color, are the architects of 0:19:48.756 --> 0:19:51.116 that kind of music. So whenever Beyonce says she's doing 0:19:51.156 --> 0:19:53.396 a country album, I'm willing to rethink my feelings about 0:19:53.396 --> 0:19:56.396 country from the foundation up. And I would think that 0:19:56.676 --> 0:19:59.716 if anybody could change it, I would damn sure bet 0:19:59.796 --> 0:20:04.796 it'd be her, So go, go, go bag. But I 0:20:04.836 --> 0:20:08.636 appreciate the idea of changing it more than the idea 0:20:08.676 --> 0:20:09.276