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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Brandy Carlyle's knack for uplifting the musicians she loves

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Speaker 1: is exemplary. After her own hard earned ascent to success

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Speaker 1: over the course of seven studio albums, Brandy started to

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Speaker 1: turn her sights to producing the albums for artists she

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Speaker 1: deeply admires, including Tanya Tucker, who she's been unbroken record

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Speaker 1: with in the past, but also Brandy Clark. Then there's

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Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell, who, thanks to Brandy's encouragement, has recently made

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Speaker 1: a glorious return to performing live. Brandy's passion for the

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Speaker 1: project she works on is infectious. The latest is an

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Speaker 1: EP she produced for an eighteen year old singer songwriter

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Speaker 1: named Tish Melton. The EPs called When We're Older. Over

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Speaker 1: the course of the five song collection, Tish pulls influence

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Speaker 1: from artists like Phoebe Bridgers and Lucy Dakis. Tish, whose

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Speaker 1: mom is the New York Times bestselling author Glennon Doyle,

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Speaker 1: is teeming with talent on her EP, which includes heartfelt

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Speaker 1: songs that expertly capture a wise beyond her years self assuredness.

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Speaker 1: On today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Tish Melton and

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Speaker 1: Brandy Carlyle about their creative partnership and the impermeable sense

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Speaker 1: of self Brandy is found in both Tish and Joni Mitchell.

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Speaker 1: And Brandy teases her upcoming collaboration album that she calls monumental,

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Speaker 1: and she talks about why she thinks Beyonce might be

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Speaker 1: country music's saving grace. This is broken record liner notes

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Speaker 1: for the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Lea Rose's

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Speaker 1: conversation with Tish Melton and Brandy Carlisle.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you both so much for doing this. I'm

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Speaker 2: super excited to hear about how this album came to be.

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Speaker 2: I guess let's start. Brandy, tell me how you first

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Speaker 2: met Tish and how you then found out that she

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Speaker 2: was a musician.

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Speaker 3: Well, our families are friends, so that might make you

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Speaker 3: think that, you know, because of proximity to one another,

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Speaker 3: or just an affection that we have for one another,

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Speaker 3: that that would draw us to work together, or me

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Speaker 3: to't want to work with Tish, But actually's quite it's

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Speaker 3: quite pure.

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Speaker 1: Like I just.

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Speaker 3: Saw her trajectory from this interested young person like learning

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Speaker 3: an instrument and starting to sing covers, to like starting

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Speaker 3: to write in really pure, interesting and unaffected ways to

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Speaker 3: like actually becoming a damn good writer to becoming so

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Speaker 3: impressed that I was like a bit jealous. And that's

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Speaker 3: that's the point where we kind of met and decided

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Speaker 3: to go in and record some things because why not,

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Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, but it was a really natural trajectory

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Speaker 3: of me gaining affection and then admiration for a songwriter

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Speaker 3: that was honestly just impressing me, and proximity to our

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Speaker 3: families kind of phased out as one of the reasons

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Speaker 3: why we work together.

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Speaker 2: In the end, I think Tish, Yeah, And then when

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Speaker 2: you say she was writing in unaffected ways, what do

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Speaker 2: you mean by that?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I just mean that Tish is like a part

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Speaker 3: of a songwriting contingency that I have like a lot

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Speaker 3: of respect for, and I actually think she's one of

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Speaker 3: the best at it, where she's so innocently and with

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Speaker 3: such wisdom writing about exactly who she is right where

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Speaker 3: she is. She's like the Eckhart Toll, you know, prime

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Speaker 3: example of a songwriter like living in the moment in

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Speaker 3: the age that they are, you know. And I remember

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Speaker 3: coming up in roots in Americana and folk music and

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Speaker 3: writing about hopin' trains and the dust bowl and shit. Like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I wasn't talking about getting behind the wheel

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Speaker 3: of a car for the first time and being sad

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Speaker 3: that I was suddenly an adult, because that would have

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Speaker 3: revealed that I was not, in fact an adult. And

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be taken seriously in a way that

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Speaker 3: Tish is unaffected by and it's I'm in awe of it.

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Speaker 2: Tish, are you aware that you have that ability?

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Speaker 4: I mean, but Brandy was one was the first person

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Speaker 4: to tell me that. But my mom had always told

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Speaker 4: me that I was a very like, unaffected, steady person.

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Speaker 4: So I think the fact that that's transferred into my music, like,

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Speaker 4: I'm glad that I have a sense of self that

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Speaker 4: kind of carries through both those things you do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Brandy, when you're working with Tish and you're reading

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Speaker 2: her lyrics or you're hearing the lyrics, does it take

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Speaker 2: you at all back to where you were when you

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Speaker 2: were seventeen eighteen? And does it make you sort of

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Speaker 2: like compare your experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of, especially when you know, we did an

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Speaker 3: interview recently where somebody asked her who specifically she was

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Speaker 3: singing about in a certain song, and I watched her

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Speaker 3: kind of try to grasp for what that is, because

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Speaker 3: I sense that feeling of like I remember writing really

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Speaker 3: important and profound self revealing things about myself, probably not

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Speaker 3: as concisely as Tish does, but with the same intent,

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Speaker 3: and not knowing what it was about until fifteen years later,

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Speaker 3: and looking back on it, realizing the person that influenced that,

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Speaker 3: or the moment or the thing that influenced that, and

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Speaker 3: also realize that these are habits I'm repeating into middle age.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I do. I see real parallels, and I

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Speaker 3: see someone that's better than I was by any measure,

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Speaker 3: just better, And I just think it's kind of intoxicating.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious about your perspective now, having worked so much

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Speaker 2: with Joni, who's eighty, and Tish is now you just

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Speaker 2: turned eighteen, right, yeah, Sos is eighteen, and then Brandy,

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Speaker 2: you're somewhere in the middle. I don't want to out you,

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Speaker 2: but like, what has that made you think about the

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Speaker 2: lifespan of emotional life?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's weird. It kind of begins and ends similarly.

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Speaker 3: I've seen that happen. It's like this rainbow of starting

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Speaker 3: with a really strong sense of self, an impermeable sense

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Speaker 3: of self, and then ending with a really strong and

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Speaker 3: permeable sense of self and how those two shining moments

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Speaker 3: might actually be thes that we ever shine. It might

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Speaker 3: actually be the time that we're most important to the world,

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Speaker 3: and those are the times we get listened to the

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Speaker 3: least when we're either too young or too old. So

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Speaker 3: I really do see this just incredible commonality. And that's

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Speaker 3: why I've really loved drawing young people to Jony physically

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Speaker 3: to Joni, to her to sit at her feet within

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Speaker 3: a guitar and sing their songs for her, like in

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Speaker 3: her living room, and watch that exchange of purity and

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Speaker 3: energy and knowing that, like, yeah, this might actually be

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Speaker 3: a sweet spot.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell us about any like, any young artists

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Speaker 2: that you've brought to collaborate with Joni or just to

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Speaker 2: sit with her play with her.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean just the most recent one would

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Speaker 3: just be at the Grammys, just being on that floor

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Speaker 3: with Joan and seeing all these incredible young songwriters. And

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Speaker 3: I do think I'm not being hyperbolic when I say

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Speaker 3: I think we're in a real moment, like a Laurel

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Speaker 3: Canyon level moment of self revelation and songwriting and Tish

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Speaker 3: is a huge part of this, like I think one

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Speaker 3: of the strongest, most powerful voices doing it, And so

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Speaker 3: I really want her ep to be heard by people

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Speaker 3: of all ages, because I think she's very important. But

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Speaker 3: sitting on the floor of the Grammys and watching those

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Speaker 3: young artists wreck, they knew it. They knew before we

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Speaker 3: got there. They have her lyrics tattooed on their arms

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Speaker 3: and shit, you know, Like Gracie Abrams walked up to

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Speaker 3: me and she said something about how she likes my

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Speaker 3: music or whatever, and I completely shrugged it off. I

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Speaker 3: didn't even like actually had to write her something and apologize.

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Speaker 3: I just immediately knew what you need, what you're here for, honestly,

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Speaker 3: is to be introduced to Joni, you know. So I

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Speaker 3: just like didn't even listen to her. I just took

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Speaker 3: her by the hand that I said, Jony, this is

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Speaker 3: a beautiful songwriter, this is a beautiful young person that

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Speaker 3: you mean really a lot to and I want to

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Speaker 3: introduce you guys. And so Jennie was lovely and they

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Speaker 3: took a picture and it. You became a big moment

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Speaker 3: for Gracie in her life. And I've got to facilitate

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Speaker 3: a few of those moments of like full circle connectedness

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Speaker 3: between the two souls that know who they are and

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Speaker 3: get listened to the least, the oldest and the youngest.

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Speaker 2: That's so incredible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we've seen it happen, you know. The Joni jams

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Speaker 3: have been really cool. And I remember watching Maggie Rodgers

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Speaker 3: have the same experience and Harry Styles have the same experience,

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Speaker 3: and then we've all had the same experience. You know.

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Speaker 3: I think that bringing older and younger people together is

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Speaker 3: like paramount and it finally feels possible.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was just so special seeing Brandy introduce Joni

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Speaker 4: and being so close to her, and then seeing like

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Speaker 4: the entire musical family that I've been introduced to just

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Speaker 4: these past couple of years and spent so much time

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Speaker 4: with on stage with her while she's which like Joni

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Speaker 4: Mitchell is like the start of all the songwriting that

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Speaker 4: everyone's doing. And I feel like, like Brandy said, what

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Speaker 4: everyone's really returning back to now and then they're seeing

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Speaker 4: both sides now. I was like it was just all

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Speaker 4: too like I just lost it and I did not

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Speaker 4: recover for like, I just had to sit there in

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Speaker 4: silence afterwards.

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Speaker 3: So I wish you'd been there with me.

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Speaker 5: I know I was.

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Speaker 4: I said I wasn't there, like I was telling my mom,

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Speaker 4: I was like, I feel like I should have been there,

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Speaker 4: Like it feels like that I was supposed to be there.

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Speaker 5: But there'll be another opportunity, I hope.

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Speaker 2: Dude.

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Speaker 3: It was pretty special.

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Speaker 2: She's come up more in Broken Record conversations and interviews

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Speaker 2: than any other artist, hands down, from every genre. Everybody

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Speaker 2: always references Joni Mitchell, and it's just it's just incredible,

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Speaker 2: the power and the reach.

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Speaker 3: She's like poet Laureette, like for our entire industry, Like

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Speaker 3: there's everybody can recognize themselves in her in one way

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Speaker 3: or another, and she's just like cool.

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Speaker 2: Do you think she gets it or it doesn't matter if.

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Speaker 3: She accepts it And she gets it, but she's not

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Speaker 3: heady about it, like she doesn't want to dissect it.

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Speaker 3: She just wants to like be Joni Mitchell. And there's

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Speaker 3: just something not unlike you Tish, very steady about Joan nowadays.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you Brandy for bringing her back into public life.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm just got I'm like, I'm Robin Man,

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Speaker 3: She's Batman. I'm following her around, just going this is

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Speaker 3: the coolest shit I've ever seen.

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Speaker 2: It's so cool how it's developed. I've heard you tell

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Speaker 2: the whole story about how at first you weren't like

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Speaker 2: the biggest fan when you were first getting together with

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Speaker 2: Catherine right, and Catherine was like red flag, like, how

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Speaker 2: can you not be into Joni Mitchell?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well it speaks to this exact thing that Tish

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Speaker 3: is so good at and so aware of that I

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Speaker 3: wasn't aware of, which is that Joni Mitchell smacked of

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Speaker 3: vulnerability to me, and that made me very uncomfortable. It

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Speaker 3: made me uncomfortable. I was uncomfortable with my feelings. I

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Speaker 3: was uncomfortable with my gender, and Joni kind of like

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Speaker 3: opening herself up for the whole world to see made

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Speaker 3: me feel like I would have to do that too

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Speaker 3: if I listened for too long. And I wanted to

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Speaker 3: be a different kind of artist at that time, and

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Speaker 3: so I was a late bloomer. And I'm so envious

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Speaker 3: of the fact that there's this whole wave of songwriters

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Speaker 3: now that are not late bloomers and that have accepted

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Speaker 3: the gift of their feelings destigmatized by this person, whereas

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Speaker 3: I was rejecting it. And when I stopped rejecting it.

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Speaker 3: It made me ready for a lot of what happened

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Speaker 3: to me then in my life, you know, from getting

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Speaker 3: married to being a mother. I'm not saying Joni Mitchell

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Speaker 3: made all those things possible. I'm just saying she was

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Speaker 3: one of the steps along the way that made it

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Speaker 3: so that I could actually accept that I was a

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Speaker 3: feeling person.

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Speaker 2: It's incredible you have one thing to sort of point

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Speaker 2: to that started the domino effect.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then it ended this way that it ended

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Speaker 3: with me actually being able to be by her side

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Speaker 3: in times that she's vulnerable.

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Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, pretty cool, super cool. So when you

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Speaker 2: were starting to record Tish's EP, did you Brandy bring

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Speaker 2: any sounds or any music that you wanted Tish to

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Speaker 2: hear and same Tish. Did you bring anything to Brandy

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Speaker 2: that you wanted sort of like reference pieces?

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Speaker 3: Tish did.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I wrot a lot, Like I think that was

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Speaker 4: like a helpful Like I think Brandy and I were

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Speaker 4: on this page like from the very beginning about recording.

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Speaker 4: I think part of the reason was because I had

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Speaker 4: so many different reference people because I'm just like a fangirl,

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Speaker 4: like I just I go to so many concerts, and

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Speaker 4: I'm such a fan of all of these artists, and

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Speaker 4: so I didn't think too much about it. But I

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Speaker 4: just brought in like a playlist of songs that was like,

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Speaker 4: like my like the clearness of Lizzie mccapine's vocals, I

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Speaker 4: would really like my vocals and stuff like that, or

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Speaker 4: like the drums in this song, or like the guitar

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Speaker 4: in this song, or the feeling of this song, the

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Speaker 4: outro of this song. I think that directed the production

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Speaker 4: of Law, especially on like the day when we were

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Speaker 4: tracking it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Tish really knows, like really knows what she likes

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Speaker 3: and is very clear, Like she doesn't just send you

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Speaker 3: a song and go, how do you feel when you

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Speaker 3: listen to this? She goes, I want you to listen

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Speaker 3: to this vocal sound, and I want you to hear

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Speaker 3: this outro this many bars in and you know it's

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Speaker 3: not even the guitar, it's the bell that you barely

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Speaker 3: hear in the outro. Like she's that specific about my God. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: production sounds and styles. I think you'll be a producer

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Speaker 3: or self produced some day too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I listened to the end of Scott Street by Phoebe

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Speaker 4: Bridgers and I was like, just listen to the child

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Speaker 4: the bell that's like that's like representing her childhood, and

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Speaker 4: like the little hard like the bike.

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Speaker 5: Oh my god.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I was like that feeling like that's how I

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Speaker 4: wanted the sober outro to feel like that emotional or

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Speaker 4: like that, like that one sound just brings you back

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Speaker 4: to like your childhood Street, which is like exactly what

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Speaker 4: that song does. Like, there's a couple songs that I

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Speaker 4: just don't let myself listen to very often because I

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Speaker 4: like don't want to get sick of them, and I

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Speaker 4: also don't want to feel sad.

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Speaker 5: And Scott Street is one of those songs.

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Speaker 3: My god, you love that song.

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Speaker 5: It's so good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And it was cool because No, I didn't bring

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Speaker 3: any references to the table and tell she would play

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Speaker 3: me those things, because what would happened is, you know,

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Speaker 3: I already felt a little underqualified to be the producer

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Speaker 3: for Tish on this project, just because I felt like,

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Speaker 3: sonically and just age wise that she was kind of

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Speaker 3: in a realm that I didn't really understand yet, you know.

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Speaker 3: And so when she started playing me Phoebe Bridgers, I'd

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Speaker 3: be like, oh, you like this, check out Elliot Smith

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Speaker 3: or you know, she'd play me these bands and I'd

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Speaker 3: be like, oh, you wait until I introduce you to

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Speaker 3: Team Dresh and Slater Kenny. Well, we're about to get

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Speaker 3: all up in the butchies now, and like you're gonna

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Speaker 3: listen to this music you know from like Portland and Seattle.

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Speaker 3: That was like in my foundations, and I realized that,

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Speaker 3: like it kind of we kind of have the same heroes,

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Speaker 3: even if they're separated by a generation or two. Music

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Speaker 3: is so ahless that you can just sort of come

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Speaker 3: across those divides if you can see who influenced too.

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Speaker 3: So it was really cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what did you think of the older stuff, Tish?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I'm like such a music nerd that, like

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Speaker 4: I like was well aware of like Elliott being such

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Speaker 4: like an influence to Phoebe. Like I just like do

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Speaker 4: like I just do research when like I just know

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Speaker 4: it's it's horrible. I just am like constantly doing research

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Speaker 4: on everyone's like personal life of like the musicians that

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Speaker 4: I know and like their influences. So I knew that,

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Speaker 4: but there's a lot of stuff that like you wouldn't

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Speaker 4: think that it related. Like remember when you showed me

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Speaker 4: to call your girlfriend's song that was like a cover

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Speaker 4: of another song, and it's like, I don't even remember

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Speaker 4: what song you were, Like, Oh, this is influenced by that,

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Speaker 4: But there's so many different aspects of it that like connected.

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Speaker 5: And you wouldn't expect it to.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, I think that like Phoebe's influences being

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Speaker 4: Brandy's influences.

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Speaker 5: I think that that pipeline was really cool.

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Speaker 3: It revealed itself in the studio and it made me

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Speaker 3: feel so cool, Like I felt suddenly so capable of

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Speaker 3: doing the job and not letting Tish down because not

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Speaker 3: only did I know what she was wanting, but I

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Speaker 3: knew where it came from even And that is something

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Speaker 3: I'm going to take forward with me forever, is to

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Speaker 3: not have that kind of an adequacy creep in to

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Speaker 3: my thinking anymore. Mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: I saw Brandy. Your name is all over the credits

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Speaker 2: on the EP. You're playing dulcimer, you're playing banjo, acoustic guitar,

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Speaker 2: electric guitar, backup vocals. Can you describe your approach as

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Speaker 2: a producer. A producer can mean so many things. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: how do you approach the job?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's so by artist. You know, I've had projects

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Speaker 3: I've produced where I haven't touched an instrument. I'm not

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Speaker 3: a ficionado. I'm not an engineer, So I have like

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Speaker 3: a few engineers that I just they're like limbs to me.

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Speaker 3: I love them and trust them so much. With Tish, though,

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Speaker 3: it's because it's always by artist, like per artist. It

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Speaker 3: was like a totally unique process where we basically started

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Speaker 3: one day at Shangri La, which is the last place

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Speaker 3: I was when I did this podcast. We started in

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Speaker 3: one day and we got basic tracks where we tried

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Speaker 3: to like strap this band to Tish's innate rhythm while

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Speaker 3: she played guitar, and we kind of created basic tracks.

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Speaker 3: Some we used, some we didn't. When we left Shangri La,

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Speaker 3: we came to Seattle in this weird little treehouse room

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Speaker 3: that you see up here, and we just basically became

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Speaker 3: mixologists like alchemists building rocket ships and turning metal into

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Speaker 3: other metals, and we just created sounds together. So I'm

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Speaker 3: on there like as playing instruments, but really what it

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Speaker 3: was was just both of us experimenting with instruments we

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Speaker 3: didn't even really fully know how to play all the time.

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Speaker 3: And I love when those kinds of sounds come across.

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Speaker 3: You can't fake that shit. You can't fake that seeking ambiance.

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Speaker 3: And that's one of my favorite parts about this record

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Speaker 3: is you just hear scratches and pings and sounds that

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Speaker 3: aren't accidents, that are found in joy and fun.

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Speaker 2: And how about you, Brandy, are you starting to work

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Speaker 2: on your own stuff?

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Speaker 3: I just finished a project that is like monumental for

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Speaker 3: me that I can't talk about but you'll find out

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Speaker 3: about very soon. And I did some of the great,

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Speaker 3: my opinion, the most important writing I've ever done, and

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Speaker 3: I feel very satisfied as a writer in that sense.

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Speaker 3: I can't believe the things that got accomplished in that

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Speaker 3: three weeks.

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Speaker 2: Is it a collaboration album with an older artist who

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Speaker 2: we all know and love it very well? Maybe a

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Speaker 2: legacy artist, Wow, that's incredible.

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Speaker 3: But there is nothing legacy about it. It's it's very

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Speaker 3: here and now and just enormous.

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Speaker 2: That's exciting.

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Speaker 3: It's very exciting. So that's like my next like big project,

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Speaker 3: and then after that, I'm gonna rediscover who Brandy Carlile is.

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Speaker 3: Like everything like I want to do. I want different hair,

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Speaker 3: I want different clothes.

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Speaker 2: Dude, you have good hair right now?

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Speaker 3: Oh do I I'm wondering. Like I tried a new

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Speaker 3: thing at the Grammys. I liked it, but.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, I was like, I was like, I

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Speaker 4: thought I was watching like a rerun of an old

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Speaker 4: Grammys or something, because your hair was so different. Like

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Speaker 4: I thought it looked great, but I was like, wait, like,

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Speaker 4: I like didn't even recognize you for a second.

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to figure out who I am next. I

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Speaker 3: don't know you know, I know who you are. That's

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Speaker 3: why I'm not taking any more production rolls for a while.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna figure it out, though. Tish you could tell

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Speaker 3: me who I am next, or at least give me

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Speaker 3: some tips on a haircut.

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Speaker 2: How are you feeling about everybody doing country albums all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, Like Beyonce just announced she's doing her

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Speaker 2: country album and Lana del Rey's doing a country album.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that country music as an institution is

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Speaker 3: fundamentally broken. So just tell you how I really feel

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Speaker 3: about that. I think it's a problem. It's a cultural

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Speaker 3: problem we have in America is the way that that

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Speaker 3: genre has played itself out as an ostracizing political tool

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Speaker 3: in a way to divide people. I'm not okay with it.

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Speaker 3: I don't like country radio as it pertains to music

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Speaker 3: and culture. I'm a country person, you know. I'm a

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Speaker 3: chicken farming, fisherman, cowgirl, and I love rural music, rural lyrics,

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Speaker 3: Americana music, roots music, folk music, and I love how

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Speaker 3: marginalized people, particularly people of color, are the architects of

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Speaker 3: that kind of music. So whenever Beyonce says she's doing

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Speaker 3: a country album, I'm willing to rethink my feelings about

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Speaker 3: country from the foundation up. And I would think that

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Speaker 3: if anybody could change it, I would damn sure bet

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Speaker 3: it'd be her, So go, go, go bag. But I

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Speaker 3: appreciate the idea of changing it more than the idea

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Speaker 3: of joining.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break and then come back

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Speaker 1: with more from Lee Rose, Tish Melton, and Brandy Carlile.

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Speaker 1: We're back with more from Tish Melton in Brandy Carlile.

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Speaker 2: Is the Chase the first song on the EP. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's a little i think it's thirty second little synth

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Speaker 2: intro and it really feels like you're opening a door

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Speaker 2: and walking into Tish's world. It's sort of like this

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Speaker 2: little like transitory little piece and then the song starts

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Speaker 2: is But I want to hear your intention with that.

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Speaker 5: I'm so glad you said that.

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Speaker 4: I like have an obsession with intros and outros, like

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Speaker 4: I feel like they're the most important part of a song,

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Speaker 4: because I do, like I don't know, there's like a

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Speaker 4: structure of a song that like I don't follow all

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Speaker 4: the time, but I follow a lot of the time,

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Speaker 4: and like that gets like boring to me, So like

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Speaker 4: either I change up the structure or I put like

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Speaker 4: a weird intro on it. We were like back and

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Speaker 4: forth on the intro because I remember, we're like, Okay,

421
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Speaker 4: it doesn't.

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Speaker 5: Fit the song.

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Speaker 4: We're taking it out because we want it to be

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Speaker 4: more grungey. But then like the nineties intro, I just

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Speaker 4: love SYNTHI intros, like the outro of sober Rue, or

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Speaker 4: like the big like world that it creates, Like I

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Speaker 4: don't think that any of those songs would be the

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Speaker 4: same without one. Yeah, And then I also just think

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Speaker 4: it makes the chase more fun and unexpected, like you

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Speaker 4: just don't expect that, Like I don't know you expect

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Speaker 4: a nineties sounding like synth song. And then like the

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Speaker 4: guitar like the muddy guitar starts, and I just think

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Speaker 4: it changes.

434
00:21:40,076 --> 00:21:42,636
Speaker 3: It a lot. Yeah, it does, it totally does. I

435
00:21:42,676 --> 00:21:44,676
Speaker 3: remember like going back and forth on that intro, and

436
00:21:45,036 --> 00:21:48,116
Speaker 3: like most things as a producer, I default to the

437
00:21:48,236 --> 00:21:51,876
Speaker 3: artist's certainty. When they are certain, that's when you have

438
00:21:51,916 --> 00:21:55,116
Speaker 3: to acquiesce itce becomes really important. And I thought, like,

439
00:21:55,716 --> 00:21:58,236
Speaker 3: you know, I'm from Seattle. I thought the chase sounded

440
00:21:58,276 --> 00:22:00,316
Speaker 3: like it started like a Nirvana song, like it's right,

441
00:22:00,756 --> 00:22:02,756
Speaker 3: go good, got god guy. You know, it just felt

442
00:22:02,756 --> 00:22:06,556
Speaker 3: to me just scaragey and I loved that this like

443
00:22:06,756 --> 00:22:09,796
Speaker 3: EPI started out that way, you know, but then it's

444
00:22:09,836 --> 00:22:11,516
Speaker 3: like then the artist comes along, they tell you who

445
00:22:11,516 --> 00:22:17,076
Speaker 3: they are. And Tish's genuinely loves the cinematic intros and outros,

446
00:22:17,116 --> 00:22:20,196
Speaker 3: and she loved this intro. So we started pulling each

447
00:22:20,196 --> 00:22:22,916
Speaker 3: other across the center line, you know, when I when

448
00:22:22,956 --> 00:22:24,796
Speaker 3: I had to be faced with the fact that this

449
00:22:24,836 --> 00:22:27,236
Speaker 3: thing was wanted. On the beginning of this EP, I

450
00:22:27,276 --> 00:22:29,316
Speaker 3: had just started getting, well, what don't I like about

451
00:22:29,356 --> 00:22:32,036
Speaker 3: it exactly? Why does it bother me? And so we

452
00:22:32,116 --> 00:22:34,156
Speaker 3: started pulling a few elements out and adding a few

453
00:22:34,156 --> 00:22:35,676
Speaker 3: elements in and I think by the end of it,

454
00:22:35,756 --> 00:22:37,516
Speaker 3: I think that the beaker just got filled with the

455
00:22:37,596 --> 00:22:41,276
Speaker 3: right kind of solution and it fit and she was

456
00:22:41,356 --> 00:22:43,316
Speaker 3: right about it. Of course she's right about it.

457
00:22:43,316 --> 00:22:43,636
Speaker 1: It's her.

458
00:22:43,836 --> 00:22:46,916
Speaker 4: It's also so bold, Like at first, if I put

459
00:22:46,916 --> 00:22:49,196
Speaker 4: like a big, like cinematic intro or outro on a song,

460
00:22:49,236 --> 00:22:50,716
Speaker 4: I was word that people would be like, oh, like,

461
00:22:50,756 --> 00:22:51,636
Speaker 4: who does she think she is?

462
00:22:51,676 --> 00:22:51,996
Speaker 5: Whatever?

463
00:22:52,076 --> 00:22:53,756
Speaker 4: But it's like I hope people say that, like I

464
00:22:53,756 --> 00:22:55,596
Speaker 4: hope I'd do like bold things and people are like

465
00:22:55,876 --> 00:22:57,156
Speaker 4: taking it back by it a bit.

466
00:22:57,676 --> 00:22:58,876
Speaker 3: God, you hope people say that.

467
00:22:59,636 --> 00:23:00,596
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like I don't know.

468
00:23:00,716 --> 00:23:01,276
Speaker 3: I love that.

469
00:23:01,356 --> 00:23:03,836
Speaker 4: I think that that's like a like I want to

470
00:23:03,876 --> 00:23:06,516
Speaker 4: do bold things or like things that aren't expected. That's

471
00:23:06,556 --> 00:23:09,516
Speaker 4: also why like like that these specific songs are on

472
00:23:09,596 --> 00:23:12,356
Speaker 4: the EP because all of them are so different. And

473
00:23:12,396 --> 00:23:15,196
Speaker 4: it's like I was just talking about how since I'm

474
00:23:15,276 --> 00:23:18,156
Speaker 4: so new, everything feels like a first impression, which is

475
00:23:18,196 --> 00:23:19,716
Speaker 4: that's why there's a lot of pressure putting out a

476
00:23:19,756 --> 00:23:22,396
Speaker 4: first song because all the songs are so different. But like,

477
00:23:22,916 --> 00:23:24,996
Speaker 4: I don't think that there's any one impression of me

478
00:23:25,116 --> 00:23:28,236
Speaker 4: that you get on the EP other than like I'm

479
00:23:28,276 --> 00:23:30,796
Speaker 4: experimenting to and like, I have so many different feelings

480
00:23:30,836 --> 00:23:33,836
Speaker 4: and things that I want to say yep, and all

481
00:23:33,836 --> 00:23:36,236
Speaker 4: of these songs are so different because there's so many

482
00:23:36,236 --> 00:23:37,796
Speaker 4: different things that I want to do and I just

483
00:23:37,836 --> 00:23:39,036
Speaker 4: want to do them.

484
00:23:39,396 --> 00:23:42,476
Speaker 3: No, it's amazing. That's what comes across. Like there's a

485
00:23:42,516 --> 00:23:44,796
Speaker 3: through line, which is that you can hear that this

486
00:23:44,876 --> 00:23:47,676
Speaker 3: is authentically one artist. It's one artist, but it doesn't

487
00:23:47,676 --> 00:23:49,756
Speaker 3: ever get mired in the one thing, Like one thing

488
00:23:49,836 --> 00:23:53,636
Speaker 3: is epic, one thing's a heartbreaking ballad. One of these

489
00:23:53,636 --> 00:23:56,316
Speaker 3: things is like of just like a ramone song. So

490
00:23:56,756 --> 00:23:59,876
Speaker 3: these there's no, it's not erratic, there's a through line,

491
00:24:00,316 --> 00:24:03,476
Speaker 3: but it's also like you can't skip any of these

492
00:24:03,516 --> 00:24:06,156
Speaker 3: songs because each one is such a different journey. For

493
00:24:06,596 --> 00:24:08,636
Speaker 3: only a five song collection, it's quite epic. That's one

494
00:24:08,636 --> 00:24:10,396
Speaker 3: of the reasons I thought, oh God, maybe it needs

495
00:24:10,396 --> 00:24:13,276
Speaker 3: to be an album, because we need more time to

496
00:24:13,356 --> 00:24:16,476
Speaker 3: even out these like spikes and dives that are in

497
00:24:16,516 --> 00:24:18,876
Speaker 3: this thing, and that the only real through line is

498
00:24:18,996 --> 00:24:22,036
Speaker 3: your steady rhythm guitar playing and your steady voice. But

499
00:24:22,156 --> 00:24:24,036
Speaker 3: then I started to really like that. You know, it's

500
00:24:24,076 --> 00:24:27,436
Speaker 3: like the Boy Genius record I think achieves that really well,

501
00:24:27,996 --> 00:24:30,916
Speaker 3: where you know, you've got cool about it, and then

502
00:24:30,916 --> 00:24:33,836
Speaker 3: you've got true Blue, and then you've got strong enough

503
00:24:33,996 --> 00:24:35,836
Speaker 3: and you got that the begin song at the beginning.

504
00:24:35,836 --> 00:24:38,516
Speaker 3: You know, they're all so different, but that's three songwriters

505
00:24:39,516 --> 00:24:43,076
Speaker 3: behaving three different ways, and you're one songwriter. But you

506
00:24:43,196 --> 00:24:47,476
Speaker 3: definitely have the ability to kind of head down some

507
00:24:47,556 --> 00:24:50,596
Speaker 3: interesting tributaries. I think because of who influences you. And

508
00:24:50,636 --> 00:24:52,636
Speaker 3: one thing about it is, no matter which tributary you

509
00:24:52,676 --> 00:24:56,396
Speaker 3: go down and how turbulent it is, you are still steady.

510
00:24:56,396 --> 00:24:58,956
Speaker 3: I don't know about that word. We keep using that word, tish,

511
00:24:58,996 --> 00:24:59,916
Speaker 3: What do you think about it?

512
00:25:00,436 --> 00:25:01,116
Speaker 5: I like it.

513
00:25:01,156 --> 00:25:03,596
Speaker 4: I just don't want I get worried that it's like, oh,

514
00:25:03,636 --> 00:25:06,396
Speaker 4: like boring, like like I want to like make unexpect

515
00:25:06,476 --> 00:25:08,876
Speaker 4: Like it's like there's like a part of me that

516
00:25:09,156 --> 00:25:11,916
Speaker 4: remain steady, But I don't want that to get confused

517
00:25:11,956 --> 00:25:13,516
Speaker 4: with like the same all the time.

518
00:25:13,556 --> 00:25:16,236
Speaker 3: I would say steady. I would say that about The Cure,

519
00:25:16,476 --> 00:25:20,956
Speaker 3: and I would say that about Bruce Springsteen, like it's reliable.

520
00:25:21,516 --> 00:25:25,636
Speaker 3: Well yeah, and it's like it's immovable, is what it is?

521
00:25:26,396 --> 00:25:29,316
Speaker 3: Like you know that, like as an audience member, you're

522
00:25:29,316 --> 00:25:33,876
Speaker 3: not affecting the way Bruce Springsteen performs, he's doing that.

523
00:25:34,476 --> 00:25:38,236
Speaker 3: You know, it's not to be confused with placid or linear.

524
00:25:39,036 --> 00:25:42,876
Speaker 3: It's just immovable. It's just formidable. Yeah, maybe we need

525
00:25:42,916 --> 00:25:44,636
Speaker 3: to come up with a different word other than steady,

526
00:25:44,676 --> 00:25:46,956
Speaker 3: But for some reason, that just always like neon lights

527
00:25:46,996 --> 00:25:47,476
Speaker 3: in my head.

528
00:25:47,796 --> 00:25:50,596
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to ask you about the song, Michelle.

529
00:25:51,036 --> 00:25:55,356
Speaker 2: It's a song about friendship. You know, when a friendship dissolves,

530
00:25:55,396 --> 00:25:59,956
Speaker 2: it can be as heartbreaking as a romantic relationship breaking up.

531
00:26:00,236 --> 00:26:03,836
Speaker 2: It's especially intense when you're a teenager, but it's also

532
00:26:04,116 --> 00:26:07,836
Speaker 2: intense in middle age. How did that song come to be?

533
00:26:09,196 --> 00:26:12,836
Speaker 4: Actually wrote that song, Like two of my friends had

534
00:26:12,876 --> 00:26:15,476
Speaker 4: like a really weird like giving from one person and

535
00:26:15,476 --> 00:26:18,236
Speaker 4: taking from another person. But it kind of helped me

536
00:26:18,316 --> 00:26:21,516
Speaker 4: really understand one of their perspectives, because I think a

537
00:26:21,516 --> 00:26:24,316
Speaker 4: lot of teenage relationships is like feeling like you're too

538
00:26:24,396 --> 00:26:26,796
Speaker 4: much or like feeling so much for that person and

539
00:26:26,876 --> 00:26:28,396
Speaker 4: you don't know how to express that in a way

540
00:26:28,436 --> 00:26:31,316
Speaker 4: that doesn't put too much pressure on them like that,

541
00:26:31,396 --> 00:26:33,436
Speaker 4: Like the narrator was just giving too much to Michelle.

542
00:26:33,756 --> 00:26:37,476
Speaker 4: And it's not Michelle's fault for not reciprocating it, because

543
00:26:37,516 --> 00:26:40,196
Speaker 4: she like she's her own person and like it's not

544
00:26:40,276 --> 00:26:42,676
Speaker 4: her job too, But then you also just feel both

545
00:26:42,796 --> 00:26:45,356
Speaker 4: so bad for both parties in the story, which I

546
00:26:45,436 --> 00:26:47,636
Speaker 4: like about it because I think there's really no right answer,

547
00:26:48,116 --> 00:26:51,796
Speaker 4: especially in like girl friendships where there's so much like passion.

548
00:26:51,436 --> 00:26:52,836
Speaker 3: There, which are so intense.

549
00:26:53,196 --> 00:26:56,956
Speaker 4: It's so intense, like those like my most intense relationships

550
00:26:57,036 --> 00:27:00,796
Speaker 4: have been like girl friendships, which like it's like hard

551
00:27:00,836 --> 00:27:03,916
Speaker 4: to differentiate between what's like feelings that like you just

552
00:27:03,916 --> 00:27:06,036
Speaker 4: like don't like don't explain, or like what's like actually

553
00:27:06,036 --> 00:27:09,236
Speaker 4: just like a queer like like there's so much, so

554
00:27:09,236 --> 00:27:12,356
Speaker 4: many layers to it, but like that came from me

555
00:27:12,476 --> 00:27:14,396
Speaker 4: just trying to better understand one of my friends.

556
00:27:15,156 --> 00:27:18,516
Speaker 2: Yeah, Brandy, were you able to relate to that song

557
00:27:18,956 --> 00:27:22,356
Speaker 2: with your own experience with friendships changing as you've gotten

558
00:27:22,396 --> 00:27:25,236
Speaker 2: older or maybe as you've gotten more successful.

559
00:27:26,276 --> 00:27:30,516
Speaker 3: I mean absolutely, it's like it's already strange, you know,

560
00:27:30,556 --> 00:27:34,876
Speaker 3: when you're queer to try and figure out what, identify,

561
00:27:35,076 --> 00:27:37,876
Speaker 3: what those feelings are, where they're coming from, how you

562
00:27:37,876 --> 00:27:40,676
Speaker 3: want to move forward with it, and those friendships change.

563
00:27:40,716 --> 00:27:43,476
Speaker 3: I mean, like you know, I'm a lesbian, Like we

564
00:27:43,556 --> 00:27:46,196
Speaker 3: literally like wind up married to each other's partners and shit,

565
00:27:46,236 --> 00:27:48,716
Speaker 3: and like staying best friends with our ex and it's like,

566
00:27:48,956 --> 00:27:52,436
Speaker 3: these friendships get really ambiguous. So a song I'll write

567
00:27:52,556 --> 00:27:56,036
Speaker 3: about a totally platonic relationship might wind up being romantic

568
00:27:56,076 --> 00:28:00,156
Speaker 3: eventually and then platonic again. So yeah, I think that. Yeah,

569
00:28:00,556 --> 00:28:03,956
Speaker 3: that's one thing Tish that's so ageless is that friendships

570
00:28:03,996 --> 00:28:07,876
Speaker 3: and connections between women and queer people are so bizarre

571
00:28:07,916 --> 00:28:11,396
Speaker 3: and unquantifiable, and you like, yeah, you might find yourself

572
00:28:11,396 --> 00:28:13,676
Speaker 3: in love with Michelle someday, you might find yourself being

573
00:28:13,716 --> 00:28:17,676
Speaker 3: Michelle someday, and then that song just changes, It just changes,

574
00:28:17,716 --> 00:28:20,036
Speaker 3: and it fits you, like this new coat that you

575
00:28:20,116 --> 00:28:23,156
Speaker 3: do or don't want to wear, but it's on you,

576
00:28:23,156 --> 00:28:26,676
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, And I've written songs about a romantic

577
00:28:26,716 --> 00:28:30,756
Speaker 3: relationship and then ten years later, someone I know dies

578
00:28:31,196 --> 00:28:33,356
Speaker 3: and I realized that that song was actually written about

579
00:28:33,356 --> 00:28:35,476
Speaker 3: that moment that I didn't even know what exists yet.

580
00:28:36,116 --> 00:28:38,316
Speaker 3: It's such a funny thing what songs do to you

581
00:28:38,396 --> 00:28:40,516
Speaker 3: throughout life, because they're like little pieces of your soul

582
00:28:41,036 --> 00:28:42,796
Speaker 3: and you don't realize it, but like you're going to

583
00:28:42,876 --> 00:28:46,236
Speaker 3: repeat all of these thoughts and mistakes and it's not

584
00:28:46,276 --> 00:28:49,956
Speaker 3: that we can't grow or change. It's just that we don't.

585
00:28:50,436 --> 00:28:52,476
Speaker 2: Yeah. So when you say that you write a song

586
00:28:52,556 --> 00:28:56,316
Speaker 2: and then later it morphs into a different meeting, is

587
00:28:56,356 --> 00:28:57,516
Speaker 2: it like a premonition?

588
00:28:58,076 --> 00:29:00,396
Speaker 3: I think it might be something. Yeah, Like I'm not

589
00:29:00,396 --> 00:29:02,516
Speaker 3: going to get too into it, like because I'll sound crazy,

590
00:29:02,516 --> 00:29:04,956
Speaker 3: but I'm not totally sure that time is. We've talked

591
00:29:04,956 --> 00:29:05,596
Speaker 3: about this too.

592
00:29:05,516 --> 00:29:08,476
Speaker 4: Tish Gosh, I was just thinking about this other day.

593
00:29:08,676 --> 00:29:11,796
Speaker 3: Yeah. Sometimes I think we're just remembering when we think

594
00:29:11,836 --> 00:29:15,076
Speaker 3: we're like arrogant enough to be manifesting something for ourselves,

595
00:29:15,076 --> 00:29:18,356
Speaker 3: that we're just remembering it, you know. And like I

596
00:29:18,396 --> 00:29:21,676
Speaker 3: wrote a song called Cannonball one time about one of

597
00:29:21,716 --> 00:29:23,716
Speaker 3: my like high school best friends that was off to

598
00:29:23,756 --> 00:29:28,116
Speaker 3: do his second tour in Iraq, and then ten years

599
00:29:28,196 --> 00:29:31,036
Speaker 3: later I fell in love. I had an unrequited love

600
00:29:31,596 --> 00:29:35,796
Speaker 3: affair with someone, and I suddenly realized Cannonball could only

601
00:29:35,836 --> 00:29:39,156
Speaker 3: have ever been about that, you know, and it wasn't

602
00:29:39,196 --> 00:29:40,956
Speaker 3: even related.

603
00:29:40,596 --> 00:29:43,836
Speaker 2: Or so a totally different person, totally different person, but

604
00:29:44,156 --> 00:29:44,956
Speaker 2: I was still me.

605
00:29:45,196 --> 00:29:48,836
Speaker 3: So the feelings I was having of anxiety and unrequited

606
00:29:48,876 --> 00:29:53,316
Speaker 3: love would just fit this new, totally different scenario. So

607
00:29:53,396 --> 00:29:56,196
Speaker 3: it's like you think you're writing about Michelle or Michelle's friend,

608
00:29:56,236 --> 00:29:57,756
Speaker 3: but it's like it really is you.

609
00:29:58,796 --> 00:30:01,276
Speaker 4: Yeah, And a lot of the times for me, like

610
00:30:01,276 --> 00:30:04,036
Speaker 4: like people ask me a lot who specific song is about,

611
00:30:04,556 --> 00:30:06,676
Speaker 4: and I have clear answers for a lot of them.

612
00:30:06,796 --> 00:30:08,516
Speaker 4: But like a lot of times it was like I

613
00:30:08,556 --> 00:30:10,356
Speaker 4: was feeling like I want a song to feel a

614
00:30:10,356 --> 00:30:12,796
Speaker 4: certain way, and it like I can't, Like when I

615
00:30:12,836 --> 00:30:15,356
Speaker 4: think of Sober, like I don't think of one person

616
00:30:15,356 --> 00:30:17,276
Speaker 4: that I wrote it about. Like it's like I was

617
00:30:17,316 --> 00:30:20,316
Speaker 4: so obsessed with capturing a specific feeling with that song

618
00:30:20,556 --> 00:30:22,916
Speaker 4: that I completely forgot to write it to anybody or

619
00:30:22,916 --> 00:30:25,756
Speaker 4: for anyone, which, like I feel like a lot of

620
00:30:25,796 --> 00:30:27,716
Speaker 4: people say that that's like the opposite thing to do,

621
00:30:28,316 --> 00:30:30,756
Speaker 4: Like I know, I think it was like Elizabeth Gilbert

622
00:30:30,956 --> 00:30:33,556
Speaker 4: who said, like, when you're writing, always write to somebody

623
00:30:33,636 --> 00:30:36,716
Speaker 4: or like specifically for somebody, But that's just like not

624
00:30:37,116 --> 00:30:40,476
Speaker 4: I don't do that very often. Maybe it's like too

625
00:30:40,596 --> 00:30:43,156
Speaker 4: vulnerable or something. But like a lot of times I'm

626
00:30:43,156 --> 00:30:46,436
Speaker 4: writing about a feeling rather than a person or an experience.

627
00:30:46,716 --> 00:30:49,476
Speaker 3: Wow, and then knowing it could change.

628
00:30:49,836 --> 00:30:52,836
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I'm sure Sober will like have an entirely

629
00:30:52,836 --> 00:30:54,036
Speaker 4: different meaning I.

630
00:30:54,076 --> 00:30:56,236
Speaker 3: Feel like as a bird's eye view a person having

631
00:30:56,236 --> 00:30:59,276
Speaker 3: a bird's i view to that song. You know you

632
00:31:00,076 --> 00:31:02,716
Speaker 3: are addressing imposter syndrome in the end when you're reading

633
00:31:02,716 --> 00:31:06,116
Speaker 3: the Leonard Cohen poem. You live in a household and

634
00:31:06,156 --> 00:31:07,996
Speaker 3: have grown up in a family where sobriety is an

635
00:31:07,996 --> 00:31:11,316
Speaker 3: issue about you know, we're both like alan On kids.

636
00:31:11,516 --> 00:31:13,956
Speaker 3: So I recognize that when I see it. You're young,

637
00:31:14,036 --> 00:31:15,516
Speaker 3: and all your friends are starting to want to be

638
00:31:15,556 --> 00:31:18,636
Speaker 3: intoxicated during all their celebrations and their events. And there

639
00:31:18,676 --> 00:31:21,116
Speaker 3: are probably things about that because you're an insightful person

640
00:31:21,396 --> 00:31:25,796
Speaker 3: that you want to remember without that sene of you know,

641
00:31:25,836 --> 00:31:28,076
Speaker 3: intoxication over it. And so you have all these different

642
00:31:28,116 --> 00:31:30,836
Speaker 3: reasons to write a song like that, and you never

643
00:31:30,916 --> 00:31:34,436
Speaker 3: really need to explain the mystery to anybody. Those are

644
00:31:34,476 --> 00:31:36,956
Speaker 3: all true things floating around in the ether for you.

645
00:31:37,876 --> 00:31:41,356
Speaker 2: Yeah, as songwriters, do you think if you explain too

646
00:31:41,476 --> 00:31:44,636
Speaker 2: much about your songs or the inspirations behind your songs,

647
00:31:44,636 --> 00:31:46,956
Speaker 2: that it takes something away from the writing.

648
00:31:48,036 --> 00:31:50,276
Speaker 4: That's happened to me like when an artist does that.

649
00:31:50,796 --> 00:31:52,956
Speaker 4: So I'm just like, I try to keep from doing

650
00:31:52,996 --> 00:31:55,716
Speaker 4: that because there's this one Adrian Lanker song that I

651
00:31:55,716 --> 00:31:58,156
Speaker 4: thought was like the most romantic song ever, and then

652
00:31:58,156 --> 00:32:00,636
Speaker 4: I go on genius lyrics and she's explaining that it's

653
00:32:00,636 --> 00:32:04,316
Speaker 4: like literally about like depression and like loving someone too

654
00:32:04,396 --> 00:32:06,636
Speaker 4: much that like they don't love you back. And now

655
00:32:06,636 --> 00:32:08,596
Speaker 4: it's like changed my perception of the song so much

656
00:32:08,636 --> 00:32:10,516
Speaker 4: that I like, it's like bumps me out every time

657
00:32:10,556 --> 00:32:11,756
Speaker 4: I listened to it, even though I thought it was

658
00:32:11,796 --> 00:32:15,316
Speaker 4: just a really cute love song. So I am very

659
00:32:15,356 --> 00:32:17,236
Speaker 4: aware of that, and I try not to explain it

660
00:32:17,276 --> 00:32:19,996
Speaker 4: too much, but obviously, I mean, I think songs take

661
00:32:20,036 --> 00:32:23,516
Speaker 4: different meanings for different people. So yeah, it's either like

662
00:32:23,556 --> 00:32:26,156
Speaker 4: reminding everyone that even if I explain it a certain way,

663
00:32:26,276 --> 00:32:29,476
Speaker 4: they can interpret it entirely differently, or just not explain

664
00:32:29,516 --> 00:32:30,196
Speaker 4: it too much.

665
00:32:30,036 --> 00:32:32,356
Speaker 5: So they don't lose like any of their meaning that

666
00:32:32,356 --> 00:32:33,116
Speaker 5: they found in it.

667
00:32:33,956 --> 00:32:36,076
Speaker 3: And this is hard to get your head around. You

668
00:32:36,196 --> 00:32:38,876
Speaker 3: might also be the one that's most wrong about what

669
00:32:38,876 --> 00:32:42,916
Speaker 3: your song is about, right because you're the closest to it,

670
00:32:43,316 --> 00:32:46,396
Speaker 3: and that, like people who are fascinated with your music,

671
00:32:46,476 --> 00:32:48,756
Speaker 3: you might be more right about what that girl wrote

672
00:32:48,756 --> 00:32:49,756
Speaker 3: the song about than she is.

673
00:32:50,236 --> 00:32:52,836
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's like that's like damage, Like it was so

674
00:32:52,916 --> 00:32:54,876
Speaker 4: vulnerable for me that I was like, it's not about

675
00:32:54,916 --> 00:32:56,756
Speaker 4: a person. It's not about a person, Like, it's not

676
00:32:56,796 --> 00:32:58,676
Speaker 4: about a person, it's about a feeling. Like you guys

677
00:32:58,716 --> 00:33:00,476
Speaker 4: are wrong about that. And then finally I was like,

678
00:33:00,476 --> 00:33:02,476
Speaker 4: all right, like it's about this one's with a big person.

679
00:33:02,756 --> 00:33:04,836
Speaker 4: I was just too scared to say that because it's

680
00:33:04,836 --> 00:33:06,076
Speaker 4: like too vulnerable of a song.

681
00:33:06,476 --> 00:33:08,676
Speaker 3: And you don't have to ever say that if you

682
00:33:08,716 --> 00:33:10,916
Speaker 3: don't want to, you know what I mean, You can

683
00:33:11,036 --> 00:33:13,716
Speaker 3: like almost you start to get this in practice about it.

684
00:33:13,756 --> 00:33:15,476
Speaker 3: Like there are people that have different philosophies about like

685
00:33:15,636 --> 00:33:18,036
Speaker 3: Bernie Toppin who's one of my favorite lyricists of all time,

686
00:33:18,036 --> 00:33:21,836
Speaker 3: hero every Elton Johnson, but he's a fantastical lyrist like lyricist,

687
00:33:21,916 --> 00:33:24,476
Speaker 3: so it's like never really super self exposing with him,

688
00:33:24,476 --> 00:33:27,676
Speaker 3: it's just kind of like fantasy. But he is adamant

689
00:33:27,676 --> 00:33:31,156
Speaker 3: that you never explain your lyrics because it'll start to

690
00:33:31,276 --> 00:33:35,516
Speaker 3: kind of dissolve your ability to connect to the other side,

691
00:33:35,636 --> 00:33:38,596
Speaker 3: like to the ether. Like if you intellectualize your gifts

692
00:33:38,996 --> 00:33:41,796
Speaker 3: that are coming in from a source, that you might

693
00:33:41,836 --> 00:33:44,676
Speaker 3: actually not be able to understand them as clearly, almost

694
00:33:44,676 --> 00:33:47,836
Speaker 3: like a clairvoyant or a medium or something I really

695
00:33:47,876 --> 00:33:51,556
Speaker 3: subscribe to, that you might start to intellectualize the gifts

696
00:33:52,316 --> 00:33:55,196
Speaker 3: that are so abstract and so esoteric so much that

697
00:33:55,236 --> 00:33:59,116
Speaker 3: you stop being able to understand the childlike thing that's

698
00:33:59,116 --> 00:34:01,996
Speaker 3: coming to you without you really understanding it. So as

699
00:34:01,996 --> 00:34:05,956
Speaker 3: you strive to understand it, you kind of erode at

700
00:34:05,956 --> 00:34:08,196
Speaker 3: the purity of it. You know that sounds kind of

701
00:34:08,236 --> 00:34:09,876
Speaker 3: high minded, but it's what happens.

702
00:34:10,396 --> 00:34:13,156
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tish, are you always Are you the type of

703
00:34:13,196 --> 00:34:17,316
Speaker 2: songwriter who's always writing or do you have like what's

704
00:34:17,316 --> 00:34:19,996
Speaker 2: your process? Do you sit and are you intentional about it?

705
00:34:20,156 --> 00:34:22,436
Speaker 2: Or do things come to you and you have to

706
00:34:22,476 --> 00:34:23,356
Speaker 2: quickly get it down.

707
00:34:23,836 --> 00:34:25,996
Speaker 4: I mean, I always have my phone that like has

708
00:34:26,116 --> 00:34:28,716
Speaker 4: note like my notes app. So if ever, like anything

709
00:34:28,716 --> 00:34:31,156
Speaker 4: comes to me when I'm like just walking around, I'll

710
00:34:31,156 --> 00:34:33,596
Speaker 4: put it in there. But a lot of times I'll

711
00:34:33,636 --> 00:34:36,676
Speaker 4: spend like weeks just writing down like individual lines I

712
00:34:36,676 --> 00:34:38,796
Speaker 4: think are cool, and then I feel like I'm being

713
00:34:38,796 --> 00:34:40,516
Speaker 4: productive because I'm like, oh, I have one line of

714
00:34:40,516 --> 00:34:42,436
Speaker 4: a song that could turn into a song. So eventually

715
00:34:42,476 --> 00:34:44,836
Speaker 4: I have to sit myself down in like the quiet

716
00:34:44,836 --> 00:34:46,436
Speaker 4: of my room and look back at all of like

717
00:34:46,476 --> 00:34:48,676
Speaker 4: the notes app that I've been collecting, and a lot

718
00:34:48,676 --> 00:34:50,996
Speaker 4: of times I can combine them because I'll go through

719
00:34:50,996 --> 00:34:52,836
Speaker 4: times when I'm like feeling the same thing for a

720
00:34:52,836 --> 00:34:55,236
Speaker 4: really long time and then eventually a song comes out

721
00:34:55,276 --> 00:34:57,076
Speaker 4: of it. But most of the time I have to

722
00:34:57,116 --> 00:34:59,716
Speaker 4: be very intentional about it, or else I just won't

723
00:34:59,876 --> 00:35:00,836
Speaker 4: sit down and do it.

724
00:35:01,316 --> 00:35:03,716
Speaker 2: And how about you, Brandy, how does your do you

725
00:35:03,756 --> 00:35:07,156
Speaker 2: have a relationship with amused? Do you feel like things

726
00:35:07,196 --> 00:35:08,676
Speaker 2: come to you at certain points?

727
00:35:10,636 --> 00:35:12,596
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I have to like sit down and open

728
00:35:12,596 --> 00:35:14,876
Speaker 3: myself up to it for a few weeks or something,

729
00:35:14,916 --> 00:35:16,716
Speaker 3: you know, and just try to turn off all the

730
00:35:16,756 --> 00:35:19,956
Speaker 3: other hats because I just am so passionate about other

731
00:35:20,036 --> 00:35:23,596
Speaker 3: people and so many other things, and you know, I

732
00:35:23,636 --> 00:35:30,636
Speaker 3: can get really righteously caught up in stuff like Tesh's music,

733
00:35:31,196 --> 00:35:33,556
Speaker 3: you know, and other people's things. And I think that's good,

734
00:35:33,956 --> 00:35:35,756
Speaker 3: a good thing for me, because one thing I trust

735
00:35:35,796 --> 00:35:37,956
Speaker 3: is that the muse is always there and whenever I'm

736
00:35:37,996 --> 00:35:39,836
Speaker 3: ready to sit down and listen, that the idea has

737
00:35:39,996 --> 00:35:43,876
Speaker 3: come to me. So I've never actually been blocked. But

738
00:35:43,956 --> 00:35:46,796
Speaker 3: I'll go two years and not write a song. It

739
00:35:46,836 --> 00:35:50,156
Speaker 3: was two years before I wrote Between the Joke and

740
00:35:50,516 --> 00:35:52,836
Speaker 3: Right on time, you know, And it was just like

741
00:35:52,916 --> 00:35:55,156
Speaker 3: I just trusted it, just trusted it would come back,

742
00:35:55,156 --> 00:35:57,036
Speaker 3: and I and I trust it'll come back again when

743
00:35:57,036 --> 00:35:58,356
Speaker 3: I when I'm ready for it.

744
00:35:59,396 --> 00:36:01,996
Speaker 2: Do you have specific conditions that you have to create?

745
00:36:02,156 --> 00:36:04,156
Speaker 3: I mean, to be totally honest with you, I'm just

746
00:36:04,236 --> 00:36:06,796
Speaker 3: not a mystical person and I just like it. But

747
00:36:06,916 --> 00:36:09,676
Speaker 3: this has got to go away the phone. If this

748
00:36:09,876 --> 00:36:13,036
Speaker 3: is anywhere within reach, it ain't gonna happen. And I've

749
00:36:13,036 --> 00:36:16,236
Speaker 3: accepted that, you know, because I remember before those things.

750
00:36:16,996 --> 00:36:20,076
Speaker 3: You know. In fact, there's these it's really wild. I

751
00:36:20,156 --> 00:36:23,076
Speaker 3: used to write way, way, way more songs, some of

752
00:36:23,116 --> 00:36:25,236
Speaker 3: them really bad. So you know, I don't really write

753
00:36:25,276 --> 00:36:28,196
Speaker 3: too many bad songs anymore, I don't think. But there

754
00:36:28,196 --> 00:36:31,116
Speaker 3: were these two venues, because I spent my whole adult

755
00:36:31,156 --> 00:36:32,756
Speaker 3: life on the road, there were these two venues where

756
00:36:32,756 --> 00:36:34,756
Speaker 3: there's no Wi Fi, no cell service. So it's like

757
00:36:34,756 --> 00:36:40,196
Speaker 3: a big top Chautauqua in Bayfield, Wisconsin and weirdly enough,

758
00:36:40,836 --> 00:36:45,916
Speaker 3: Mishawaka Amphitheater in Colorado and the Rocky Mountains. And every

759
00:36:45,956 --> 00:36:48,356
Speaker 3: time I would play that gig, I would write songs

760
00:36:48,756 --> 00:36:51,756
Speaker 3: in the day, and I started to realize I was

761
00:36:51,796 --> 00:36:54,876
Speaker 3: writing songs on the only day of the tour that

762
00:36:54,996 --> 00:36:59,276
Speaker 3: I didn't have any connected tissue to the outside world.

763
00:36:59,956 --> 00:37:02,156
Speaker 3: And it became this tradition where I go to those

764
00:37:02,196 --> 00:37:04,396
Speaker 3: places and I write songs when I'm on tour.

765
00:37:04,516 --> 00:37:05,156
Speaker 2: It's so cool.

766
00:37:05,196 --> 00:37:07,196
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's really big part of it. It's just

767
00:37:07,676 --> 00:37:10,356
Speaker 3: sounding a cliche, but having a phone.

768
00:37:09,996 --> 00:37:12,516
Speaker 2: What are you getting distracted by? Are you like on

769
00:37:12,556 --> 00:37:14,956
Speaker 2: social media or what's sucking you in?

770
00:37:16,076 --> 00:37:18,636
Speaker 3: Hopefully not social media? I mean more than I'm proud of,

771
00:37:18,716 --> 00:37:24,476
Speaker 3: but I think mostly just I'm so easily activated by

772
00:37:24,556 --> 00:37:27,956
Speaker 3: other people in my community. I love being in my community,

773
00:37:28,356 --> 00:37:31,756
Speaker 3: showing up with people and doing collaborations and jumping out

774
00:37:31,756 --> 00:37:35,356
Speaker 3: on stage in somebody else's show and orchestrating a dinner

775
00:37:35,356 --> 00:37:38,556
Speaker 3: at Jonie's house and being at the GRAM. I mean everything.

776
00:37:38,636 --> 00:37:41,756
Speaker 3: I love it. I love being having friends and being

777
00:37:41,756 --> 00:37:43,476
Speaker 3: in a community and stuff like that because I didn't

778
00:37:43,476 --> 00:37:44,716
Speaker 3: have that when I was in school.

779
00:37:46,036 --> 00:37:47,956
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so I mean, it seems so genuine and

780
00:37:47,996 --> 00:37:50,236
Speaker 2: you seem so happy and like you're genuinely having so

781
00:37:50,316 --> 00:37:53,396
Speaker 2: much fun collaborating with other people. It's so great to

782
00:37:53,396 --> 00:37:55,396
Speaker 2: see because it seems like there's not a lot of

783
00:37:55,396 --> 00:37:58,796
Speaker 2: that anymore. But like you said, I feel like maybe

784
00:37:58,796 --> 00:37:59,676
Speaker 2: it's coming back.

785
00:38:00,156 --> 00:38:02,596
Speaker 3: Yeah, young people are doing it, like really young people

786
00:38:02,636 --> 00:38:04,956
Speaker 3: are doing it, and I'm like, invite me.

787
00:38:05,316 --> 00:38:08,156
Speaker 4: I guess Noah kN is like leading it for like

788
00:38:08,236 --> 00:38:11,676
Speaker 4: that genre, like you could literally collaborate on every single

789
00:38:11,716 --> 00:38:12,716
Speaker 4: song with someone else.

790
00:38:13,076 --> 00:38:15,276
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's like so I'm like, it's like so.

791
00:38:15,436 --> 00:38:19,516
Speaker 4: New to my generation, but like it's like everything cyclical,

792
00:38:19,556 --> 00:38:23,116
Speaker 4: like it's coming back from like older generations to now.

793
00:38:23,156 --> 00:38:25,716
Speaker 4: But there's like some artists that are like really embracing.

794
00:38:25,276 --> 00:38:27,036
Speaker 3: It, dude.

795
00:38:27,156 --> 00:38:27,396
Speaker 1: Yeah.

796
00:38:27,396 --> 00:38:30,356
Speaker 3: And I mean I'm not trying to be like sinister

797
00:38:30,556 --> 00:38:33,036
Speaker 3: or sus about this, like and not to do too

798
00:38:33,116 --> 00:38:35,396
Speaker 3: much music industry inside ball, but I kind of feel

799
00:38:35,436 --> 00:38:39,356
Speaker 3: like with streaming, when it became we were getting all

800
00:38:39,356 --> 00:38:41,876
Speaker 3: this label pressure and all this pressure from the DSPs

801
00:38:41,916 --> 00:38:45,996
Speaker 3: to like collaborate artists. This happened like six or seven

802
00:38:46,036 --> 00:38:48,396
Speaker 3: years ago, I think, where it was like you would

803
00:38:48,396 --> 00:38:50,036
Speaker 3: release a song and then the label will want you

804
00:38:50,076 --> 00:38:52,236
Speaker 3: to do the collaboration version of that song, you know,

805
00:38:52,276 --> 00:38:54,396
Speaker 3: and then the streams they calculated on the back end

806
00:38:54,436 --> 00:38:57,396
Speaker 3: the same way, and it would boost your numbers because

807
00:38:57,436 --> 00:38:59,316
Speaker 3: then people would be listening to your version and the

808
00:38:59,316 --> 00:39:01,756
Speaker 3: collaboration version that you did with somebody else. So I

809
00:39:01,756 --> 00:39:05,076
Speaker 3: think it almost started out as like this industry inside

810
00:39:05,076 --> 00:39:07,276
Speaker 3: ball thing for people to do collaborations so they could

811
00:39:07,276 --> 00:39:09,476
Speaker 3: double their streams. But then what it turned in too,

812
00:39:10,396 --> 00:39:14,756
Speaker 3: unbeknownst to the suits, is that it created these fibers

813
00:39:15,036 --> 00:39:18,516
Speaker 3: between people. And now you see these artists that collaborated

814
00:39:18,516 --> 00:39:20,636
Speaker 3: because they got told they had to to get their

815
00:39:20,676 --> 00:39:23,596
Speaker 3: songs listened to. But they started coming to each other's

816
00:39:23,596 --> 00:39:26,716
Speaker 3: birthday parties and they started collaborating then because they wanted to,

817
00:39:26,836 --> 00:39:29,316
Speaker 3: and they joined each other's bands, and they became godfathers

818
00:39:29,316 --> 00:39:30,996
Speaker 3: to each other's children when they were being born. And

819
00:39:31,276 --> 00:39:34,796
Speaker 3: before you know it, there's a real community around something

820
00:39:35,316 --> 00:39:37,756
Speaker 3: that didn't get created for that, but has resulted in that.

821
00:39:37,916 --> 00:39:40,516
Speaker 3: And I think Noah is a really good example of

822
00:39:40,516 --> 00:39:43,716
Speaker 3: somebody that's just doing it because now that's what we do,

823
00:39:43,916 --> 00:39:45,036
Speaker 3: and that's great.

824
00:39:45,476 --> 00:39:46,596
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just joyful.

825
00:39:47,596 --> 00:39:49,876
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know if you both saw the We

826
00:39:49,956 --> 00:39:52,236
Speaker 2: Are the World documentary that was on Netflix.

827
00:39:52,796 --> 00:39:54,836
Speaker 3: I'm all about it. I can't wait to see it

828
00:39:55,356 --> 00:39:56,876
Speaker 3: once see Bop Dylan and that thing.

829
00:39:57,556 --> 00:40:00,716
Speaker 2: It's so excellent and you just get such a sense

830
00:40:00,756 --> 00:40:02,756
Speaker 2: of everybody's personality.

831
00:40:02,396 --> 00:40:05,356
Speaker 3: And really, oh yeah, who's the standout to you?

832
00:40:05,996 --> 00:40:09,676
Speaker 2: Uh? Lionel Richie is like the Paul mccarr andy of

833
00:40:09,716 --> 00:40:13,316
Speaker 2: the It's a big group of people, okay, and Lionel

834
00:40:13,556 --> 00:40:17,396
Speaker 2: is like the leader and organizer. And you get to

835
00:40:17,396 --> 00:40:21,396
Speaker 2: see Quincy at work and the people who had solos,

836
00:40:21,436 --> 00:40:24,196
Speaker 2: they set them up in a horseshoe and they just

837
00:40:24,276 --> 00:40:26,396
Speaker 2: have to step up to the mic and just go.

838
00:40:27,116 --> 00:40:30,436
Speaker 2: And so you get such a sense of their voice

839
00:40:30,476 --> 00:40:33,356
Speaker 2: and their talent and what they're capable of. Wow, and

840
00:40:33,396 --> 00:40:34,556
Speaker 2: it's incredible.

841
00:40:34,956 --> 00:40:37,316
Speaker 3: Whoa are there people that are like really shy and

842
00:40:37,356 --> 00:40:38,636
Speaker 3: then people that are encouraging them.

843
00:40:38,876 --> 00:40:41,876
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Huey Lewis his legs are shaking and he

844
00:40:42,436 --> 00:40:45,916
Speaker 2: has to sing after Michael Jackson. But it would be

845
00:40:45,956 --> 00:40:48,076
Speaker 2: so cool, Brandy. I feel like you're the one to

846
00:40:48,196 --> 00:40:50,796
Speaker 2: organize this. You should do a new We Are the

847
00:40:50,836 --> 00:40:53,676
Speaker 2: World with this new Laurel Canyon set that you're talking about.

848
00:40:54,156 --> 00:40:57,476
Speaker 3: I'd be like, Lionel, that's actually right. That feels right

849
00:40:57,516 --> 00:41:00,156
Speaker 3: to me. No, that would be so cool. I'm so

850
00:41:00,436 --> 00:41:04,236
Speaker 3: enamored with so many of these artists right now, Like

851
00:41:04,276 --> 00:41:06,396
Speaker 3: I'm just like listening to everything they do. And I'm like,

852
00:41:06,436 --> 00:41:08,956
Speaker 3: holy shit, those lyrics are so smart and oh my god,

853
00:41:08,956 --> 00:41:12,036
Speaker 3: that's so true. And why why weren't we writing about

854
00:41:12,076 --> 00:41:13,036
Speaker 3: our actual lives?

855
00:41:13,116 --> 00:41:13,236
Speaker 5: Then?

856
00:41:13,316 --> 00:41:15,396
Speaker 3: Why were we projecting into the future? Why are we

857
00:41:15,396 --> 00:41:18,956
Speaker 3: trying to keep up with or mimic older people mirror

858
00:41:18,996 --> 00:41:22,356
Speaker 3: older people's lives, Like they're not doing that. And I

859
00:41:22,356 --> 00:41:24,676
Speaker 3: don't think I would have been as exposed to them

860
00:41:24,916 --> 00:41:27,676
Speaker 3: as I have been if it hadn't been for Tish.

861
00:41:27,956 --> 00:41:30,436
Speaker 3: You know, a combination of the fact that they're all

862
00:41:30,436 --> 00:41:34,636
Speaker 3: coming out is completely influenced by Joni and then Tish

863
00:41:34,756 --> 00:41:36,956
Speaker 3: actually sending me all these records and going, this is

864
00:41:36,996 --> 00:41:38,676
Speaker 3: the kind of music I'm making, and this is the

865
00:41:38,676 --> 00:41:39,796
Speaker 3: scene I want to be a part of.

866
00:41:41,316 --> 00:41:43,236
Speaker 1: We're going to pause for our last break and then

867
00:41:43,276 --> 00:41:46,196
Speaker 1: come back with more from Brandy Carlyle and Tish Melton.

868
00:41:50,876 --> 00:41:53,596
Speaker 1: We're back with the rest of Leo Rose's conversation with

869
00:41:53,676 --> 00:41:55,636
Speaker 1: Brandy Carlyle and Tish Melton.

870
00:41:56,636 --> 00:42:00,836
Speaker 2: Tish, tell me about how you actually started playing because

871
00:42:00,556 --> 00:42:03,396
Speaker 2: you started playing guitar first, right, Yeah.

872
00:42:03,436 --> 00:42:06,756
Speaker 4: Someone asked me today, like they're like, what was it

873
00:42:06,876 --> 00:42:09,116
Speaker 4: like picking up a guitar and realizing you were like

874
00:42:09,196 --> 00:42:11,236
Speaker 4: better than a lot of people at doing it, and

875
00:42:11,276 --> 00:42:13,356
Speaker 4: I was like, that is not all what happened, because

876
00:42:13,636 --> 00:42:15,516
Speaker 4: I picked up the guitar and then my mom tried

877
00:42:15,516 --> 00:42:17,076
Speaker 4: to teach me a couple of chords and my fingers

878
00:42:17,156 --> 00:42:19,836
Speaker 4: hurt and I like stormed away because I wasn't good

879
00:42:19,876 --> 00:42:21,916
Speaker 4: at it and like refused to do it again, and

880
00:42:21,956 --> 00:42:24,436
Speaker 4: then COVID hit. I had nothing to do, so I

881
00:42:24,476 --> 00:42:26,036
Speaker 4: was kind of like losing my mind, and my mom

882
00:42:26,076 --> 00:42:27,916
Speaker 4: put the guitar back in my hand and told me

883
00:42:27,956 --> 00:42:31,156
Speaker 4: that she had signed up for lessons, just like remote lessons.

884
00:42:31,516 --> 00:42:34,316
Speaker 4: So the beginning of my music career is definitely like

885
00:42:34,316 --> 00:42:36,156
Speaker 4: against my will a little bit because I was very

886
00:42:36,236 --> 00:42:38,996
Speaker 4: uncomfortable playing the guitar because I had very small hands

887
00:42:39,076 --> 00:42:42,036
Speaker 4: and it was very stressful to work with a stranger.

888
00:42:42,756 --> 00:42:46,276
Speaker 4: But after like three months of playing guitar, I remember

889
00:42:46,316 --> 00:42:48,636
Speaker 4: my mom saying, like, You're much better than I was

890
00:42:49,236 --> 00:42:51,236
Speaker 4: when I played for three months, and so that's when

891
00:42:51,276 --> 00:42:54,236
Speaker 4: I started realizing like, okay, I'm okay at it. And

892
00:42:54,276 --> 00:42:56,916
Speaker 4: then after like about a year, I like was just

893
00:42:56,956 --> 00:42:58,756
Speaker 4: like I was, I was like a good guitar player,

894
00:42:58,796 --> 00:43:00,236
Speaker 4: and I just started like really writing.

895
00:43:01,276 --> 00:43:04,356
Speaker 2: So the songwriting came after learning to play guitar.

896
00:43:04,836 --> 00:43:05,236
Speaker 5: Yeah.

897
00:43:05,316 --> 00:43:09,596
Speaker 4: I remember I wrote like my first song after Folklore

898
00:43:09,636 --> 00:43:12,316
Speaker 4: came out because I was in Georgia in the mountains

899
00:43:12,436 --> 00:43:13,916
Speaker 4: and I was listening to Folklore on a walk and

900
00:43:13,956 --> 00:43:15,476
Speaker 4: I was like, I need to write, Like I was

901
00:43:15,516 --> 00:43:18,196
Speaker 4: so inspired and I needed to write something. And then

902
00:43:17,956 --> 00:43:20,796
Speaker 4: I didn't show anyone my music because I didn't really

903
00:43:20,836 --> 00:43:22,036
Speaker 4: know how to write a song, and like, if I

904
00:43:22,036 --> 00:43:24,436
Speaker 4: look back at those songs, they're kind of horrible. Like

905
00:43:24,476 --> 00:43:28,036
Speaker 4: I was just really young. And then Lucy Dakis came

906
00:43:28,036 --> 00:43:30,996
Speaker 4: out with Home Video in twenty twenty one, and like,

907
00:43:31,076 --> 00:43:33,276
Speaker 4: after listening to that, I was like, oh, like that's

908
00:43:33,316 --> 00:43:35,596
Speaker 4: how I want to write songs, Like I want to

909
00:43:35,636 --> 00:43:39,596
Speaker 4: be like that, like honest and simple, and so I

910
00:43:39,596 --> 00:43:42,116
Speaker 4: started write, like really really writing after that, and like

911
00:43:42,196 --> 00:43:45,116
Speaker 4: getting brave enough to show my music to other people,

912
00:43:45,356 --> 00:43:47,916
Speaker 4: which just started out being my parents, and they of

913
00:43:47,916 --> 00:43:50,316
Speaker 4: course were like this is incredible, Like this is amazing.

914
00:43:50,676 --> 00:43:53,196
Speaker 4: I didn't really believe anyone that I was good until

915
00:43:53,236 --> 00:43:54,076
Speaker 4: Brandy said, so.

916
00:43:54,676 --> 00:43:57,116
Speaker 3: Oh, what about when you got on stage for the

917
00:43:57,116 --> 00:43:59,956
Speaker 3: first time, did you believe you were good then? Because

918
00:43:59,956 --> 00:44:03,836
Speaker 3: people aren't nice, you know, and especially not in LA

919
00:44:04,236 --> 00:44:05,756
Speaker 3: and for you to get up on stage at the

920
00:44:05,756 --> 00:44:07,796
Speaker 3: Troubadour and get the response that you got. I mean

921
00:44:07,836 --> 00:44:11,196
Speaker 3: hopefully at that point it might have resonated like Okay, no,

922
00:44:11,396 --> 00:44:13,036
Speaker 3: this is I belong here.

923
00:44:13,276 --> 00:44:13,476
Speaker 2: Yeah.

924
00:44:13,516 --> 00:44:15,836
Speaker 4: I think I knew that I was good for my

925
00:44:15,996 --> 00:44:19,436
Speaker 4: age and like, well, I was like fifteen, and so

926
00:44:19,516 --> 00:44:21,156
Speaker 4: I was like or sixteen, and I was like, I

927
00:44:21,196 --> 00:44:23,156
Speaker 4: know that I'm young enough that people are not gonna boom.

928
00:44:23,196 --> 00:44:25,076
Speaker 4: Like I was like, this will be fine. And I

929
00:44:25,156 --> 00:44:28,076
Speaker 4: also knew that I had been writing for so long

930
00:44:28,076 --> 00:44:30,836
Speaker 4: and performing and I knew that I had something, and

931
00:44:30,876 --> 00:44:32,396
Speaker 4: so it was more like a relief when I got

932
00:44:32,436 --> 00:44:34,916
Speaker 4: off stage and did well that people started like that

933
00:44:34,996 --> 00:44:38,316
Speaker 4: my parents started believing like that I was good, like

934
00:44:38,316 --> 00:44:40,236
Speaker 4: because other people. I got that feedback from other people

935
00:44:40,756 --> 00:44:42,356
Speaker 4: because I was like, I was worried that I wo'd

936
00:44:42,396 --> 00:44:44,116
Speaker 4: mess up or something, and my parents would be like okay,

937
00:44:44,156 --> 00:44:46,716
Speaker 4: Like it was like she's like, ook, She's okay. But

938
00:44:46,996 --> 00:44:48,356
Speaker 4: I just knew that I was gonna do well. Like

939
00:44:48,396 --> 00:44:51,516
Speaker 4: I just wasn't nervous for that for some reason. Mostly

940
00:44:51,556 --> 00:44:53,036
Speaker 4: maybe I was just trying to calm my parents down

941
00:44:53,036 --> 00:44:55,196
Speaker 4: because they were freaking out. I just had to be

942
00:44:55,196 --> 00:44:56,436
Speaker 4: a little bit calmer than they were.

943
00:44:57,076 --> 00:44:59,676
Speaker 2: Do you have any hesitation in writing songs that you're

944
00:44:59,676 --> 00:45:03,716
Speaker 2: going to reveal something that's too intimate that you don't

945
00:45:03,756 --> 00:45:06,796
Speaker 2: want your parents to hear, or you don't want Brandy,

946
00:45:06,836 --> 00:45:08,316
Speaker 2: who's your parents' friend to hear.

947
00:45:08,756 --> 00:45:09,716
Speaker 3: It's good question.

948
00:45:10,756 --> 00:45:14,236
Speaker 4: I mean, I think, like the best thing about music

949
00:45:14,516 --> 00:45:16,676
Speaker 4: is like the feelings that you write about are never

950
00:45:16,756 --> 00:45:20,036
Speaker 4: things that someone else hasn't felt before. So like, if

951
00:45:20,076 --> 00:45:22,156
Speaker 4: I'm writing about a specific feeling, I don't think I'm

952
00:45:22,196 --> 00:45:24,956
Speaker 4: ever scared that to share it. I mean, it's it's

953
00:45:24,996 --> 00:45:27,356
Speaker 4: a vulnerable things. Like if I wrote a song like Damage,

954
00:45:27,356 --> 00:45:29,796
Speaker 4: I didn't show that to anyone for so long because

955
00:45:29,796 --> 00:45:31,796
Speaker 4: it was just like a like revealing that I had

956
00:45:31,836 --> 00:45:35,196
Speaker 4: felt that way was vulnerable, but the actual feeling itself,

957
00:45:35,556 --> 00:45:38,116
Speaker 4: Like I knew that my mom had felt that feeling before,

958
00:45:38,236 --> 00:45:40,476
Speaker 4: like Brandy had felt that feeling, or one of my

959
00:45:40,516 --> 00:45:43,036
Speaker 4: friends or fans or anyone like. I think there's just

960
00:45:43,036 --> 00:45:46,076
Speaker 4: like the universal aspect of songwriting that's what makes it special.

961
00:45:46,716 --> 00:45:49,156
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're all so narcissistic. All we think is I

962
00:45:49,196 --> 00:45:50,036
Speaker 3: can relate to that.

963
00:45:50,396 --> 00:45:52,516
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, I won't relate any song.

964
00:45:52,396 --> 00:45:54,636
Speaker 3: At We don't even think about you long enough to go.

965
00:45:54,716 --> 00:45:55,876
Speaker 3: I wonder when she thought that.

966
00:45:56,036 --> 00:45:58,836
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know. It's like sometimes I feel like

967
00:45:58,876 --> 00:46:00,916
Speaker 2: I listened to music just to try to learn more

968
00:46:00,916 --> 00:46:01,596
Speaker 2: about myself.

969
00:46:01,676 --> 00:46:05,116
Speaker 3: You know, the song was written for me. Yeah, no,

970
00:46:05,236 --> 00:46:07,916
Speaker 3: I know. It's true. We're human beings, man, We're just critters.

971
00:46:08,116 --> 00:46:10,276
Speaker 3: You're right, we have felt it all before. And that's

972
00:46:10,316 --> 00:46:13,476
Speaker 3: actually that was a really good question that never that

973
00:46:13,516 --> 00:46:16,076
Speaker 3: ever occurred to me. But like, yeah, you know, then

974
00:46:16,076 --> 00:46:20,396
Speaker 3: there's been a strange crossover with me and Tish becoming

975
00:46:20,676 --> 00:46:26,476
Speaker 3: peers but also having this kind of family latitude that's happening. Yeah,

976
00:46:26,516 --> 00:46:29,996
Speaker 3: because me and Kath and Glennon and Abbey, like we're

977
00:46:30,036 --> 00:46:33,436
Speaker 3: all raising daughters, we're all raising kids, you know, so

978
00:46:33,636 --> 00:46:37,276
Speaker 3: we have this connection. But then I think, just out

979
00:46:37,316 --> 00:46:42,116
Speaker 3: of pure unchecked talent, Tish and I have found a

980
00:46:42,156 --> 00:46:46,196
Speaker 3: parallel course that's just different. It's it doesn't cross over,

981
00:46:46,636 --> 00:46:50,156
Speaker 3: you know. I find myself cursing, I use the filthiest

982
00:46:50,196 --> 00:46:52,356
Speaker 3: I have the filthiest mouth, and the things I talk about.

983
00:46:52,356 --> 00:46:56,476
Speaker 3: I'm like a sailor, and I would check myself around

984
00:46:56,716 --> 00:47:00,396
Speaker 3: Tish's brother and sister, but I wouldn't check myself around Tish.

985
00:47:01,036 --> 00:47:02,796
Speaker 3: It's like she's in a band with me or something,

986
00:47:02,836 --> 00:47:04,556
Speaker 3: And I wouldn't even want Glennon and Abbey to know

987
00:47:04,596 --> 00:47:06,156
Speaker 3: that should I talk about or the way I talk,

988
00:47:06,236 --> 00:47:08,796
Speaker 3: because it's different. It's this is these are this is

989
00:47:08,836 --> 00:47:11,636
Speaker 3: another to mention. That's the family dimension. But there's like

990
00:47:12,276 --> 00:47:14,596
Speaker 3: we're rock and rollers, me and Tish, like we have

991
00:47:14,676 --> 00:47:16,876
Speaker 3: this other language that's just sort of ours.

992
00:47:17,276 --> 00:47:20,436
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so many different ways too, because like I

993
00:47:20,476 --> 00:47:22,276
Speaker 4: don't know, I feel like part of the reason why

994
00:47:22,316 --> 00:47:24,396
Speaker 4: I like talking to Brandy with like other people is

995
00:47:24,436 --> 00:47:26,476
Speaker 4: like I feel like no one gets it. It's like

996
00:47:26,516 --> 00:47:30,196
Speaker 4: we're like we like make music together, but like and

997
00:47:30,236 --> 00:47:32,956
Speaker 4: like we have this mental relationship and she's like like

998
00:47:32,996 --> 00:47:35,316
Speaker 4: another mom to me. But like we're also just like friends,

999
00:47:35,356 --> 00:47:37,556
Speaker 4: Like we like went to the boy Ges concert together,

1000
00:47:37,556 --> 00:47:39,356
Speaker 4: and we're just like ta like talking like friends. There's

1001
00:47:39,396 --> 00:47:41,556
Speaker 4: like so many different aspects of our relationship.

1002
00:47:41,996 --> 00:47:44,596
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true, isn't it. It's just as a shell

1003
00:47:44,676 --> 00:47:45,636
Speaker 3: like anything's possible.

1004
00:47:46,116 --> 00:47:48,476
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was thinking from your perspective, Brandy, if

1005
00:47:48,516 --> 00:47:52,276
Speaker 2: because Tish is your friend's kid, and I have a kid,

1006
00:47:52,316 --> 00:47:54,556
Speaker 2: and I know when I get together with other parent

1007
00:47:54,636 --> 00:47:57,276
Speaker 2: friends we talk about our kids. But then you don't

1008
00:47:57,276 --> 00:48:00,436
Speaker 2: actually have the type of relationship now that you all

1009
00:48:00,476 --> 00:48:03,876
Speaker 2: have been in the trenches working together, you never really

1010
00:48:03,876 --> 00:48:06,236
Speaker 2: get the opportunity to get that close with them and

1011
00:48:06,276 --> 00:48:08,716
Speaker 2: really know them as a person. Yeah.

1012
00:48:08,716 --> 00:48:11,836
Speaker 3: And I feel the trust from Glenna and abuy to

1013
00:48:11,996 --> 00:48:14,156
Speaker 3: like and even Craig, Like, I feel the trust from

1014
00:48:14,196 --> 00:48:16,676
Speaker 3: them that they trust me and Tish's friendship, but also

1015
00:48:16,716 --> 00:48:18,876
Speaker 3: that they know that it's not an extension of their parenting.

1016
00:48:19,356 --> 00:48:23,436
Speaker 3: Uh huh, It's totally different, and there's trust there because

1017
00:48:23,756 --> 00:48:27,196
Speaker 3: they actually can't trust me to implement their parenting in

1018
00:48:27,276 --> 00:48:30,556
Speaker 3: my relationship with Tish. Like we're gonna say whatever Tish

1019
00:48:30,596 --> 00:48:34,076
Speaker 3: needs to say because it's a different relationship. And that's

1020
00:48:34,156 --> 00:48:37,516
Speaker 3: that's actually quite cool. Mm hmm. I've never thought about

1021
00:48:37,556 --> 00:48:38,996
Speaker 3: it until just this moment.

1022
00:48:39,796 --> 00:48:41,756
Speaker 2: How long did it take you to get comfortable with

1023
00:48:41,836 --> 00:48:45,956
Speaker 2: Brandy Tish in the studio in that domain, Like, I'm

1024
00:48:45,996 --> 00:48:48,516
Speaker 2: sure it was kind of like, what like super intimidating.

1025
00:48:49,196 --> 00:48:53,236
Speaker 4: Yeah, I had like shadowed her for a day or

1026
00:48:53,276 --> 00:48:56,796
Speaker 4: two days when she was recording with Brandy Clark. Yeah,

1027
00:48:56,796 --> 00:48:58,356
Speaker 4: and so that was when I was kind of getting familiar,

1028
00:48:58,356 --> 00:49:00,596
Speaker 4: and I remember being so uncomfortable, Like I was so

1029
00:49:00,716 --> 00:49:03,156
Speaker 4: nervous and like didn't know what to do with myself.

1030
00:49:03,516 --> 00:49:06,196
Speaker 4: But I think that like I think the second I

1031
00:49:06,236 --> 00:49:09,276
Speaker 4: got into the studio to record my songs, like, I

1032
00:49:09,276 --> 00:49:12,756
Speaker 4: don't remember feeling any discomfort. Like I just think right

1033
00:49:12,796 --> 00:49:14,516
Speaker 4: away I felt very comfortable. And I think it came

1034
00:49:14,556 --> 00:49:17,156
Speaker 4: from like just starting out, Brandy and me on the

1035
00:49:17,196 --> 00:49:19,836
Speaker 4: couch just playing through my songs and trying to figure

1036
00:49:19,836 --> 00:49:21,556
Speaker 4: out if we were on the same page about them.

1037
00:49:21,636 --> 00:49:22,756
Speaker 4: I think that helped a lot.

1038
00:49:23,356 --> 00:49:26,556
Speaker 3: It also came from you shadowing too, because you saw

1039
00:49:26,716 --> 00:49:30,476
Speaker 3: me working with another forty five year old adult, and

1040
00:49:30,516 --> 00:49:33,316
Speaker 3: you saw that we change things. We still make changes

1041
00:49:33,396 --> 00:49:35,716
Speaker 3: to these songs and to these chords, and then you

1042
00:49:35,756 --> 00:49:39,436
Speaker 3: could see that changing things isn't akin to fundamental criticism.

1043
00:49:39,476 --> 00:49:42,636
Speaker 3: It's just kind of part of creating. And you know,

1044
00:49:42,836 --> 00:49:45,636
Speaker 3: you're like a real artist, so you're not touchy, but

1045
00:49:45,716 --> 00:49:49,156
Speaker 3: it means something to you when something gets changed a

1046
00:49:49,276 --> 00:49:52,316
Speaker 3: chord or a lyric, you know you have the final word.

1047
00:49:52,316 --> 00:49:54,836
Speaker 3: But I sense that just discomfort at first, and that

1048
00:49:54,916 --> 00:49:57,556
Speaker 3: discomfort is again, is the tenet of like a true

1049
00:49:58,196 --> 00:50:00,876
Speaker 3: is a basic tenet of like a true artist. And

1050
00:50:00,996 --> 00:50:04,676
Speaker 3: I think if you hadn't seen those changes, taking place

1051
00:50:04,996 --> 00:50:07,716
Speaker 3: with an older artist, you may have been had to

1052
00:50:07,716 --> 00:50:11,436
Speaker 3: confront some inadequacies, feelings of inadequacy that wouldn't be accurate,

1053
00:50:11,916 --> 00:50:15,396
Speaker 3: but having never seen production unfold before, could totally be

1054
00:50:15,476 --> 00:50:18,636
Speaker 3: forgiven and understood. So, yeah, you saw those things happen.

1055
00:50:18,716 --> 00:50:20,636
Speaker 3: You saw those changes get implemented. You saw that those

1056
00:50:20,676 --> 00:50:22,556
Speaker 3: songs were still Brandy Clarks at the end of the day,

1057
00:50:22,596 --> 00:50:26,236
Speaker 3: and that everybody went home happy. And then you and

1058
00:50:26,276 --> 00:50:27,676
Speaker 3: I got in the studio, and I think it was

1059
00:50:27,716 --> 00:50:30,196
Speaker 3: easier for us to tighten screws and make changes for

1060
00:50:30,676 --> 00:50:31,236
Speaker 3: that reason.

1061
00:50:31,396 --> 00:50:34,676
Speaker 4: I also think watching you work with another artist, especially

1062
00:50:34,676 --> 00:50:38,876
Speaker 4: someone as like talented and like respected as Brandy Clark,

1063
00:50:39,596 --> 00:50:41,436
Speaker 4: and then like see how like the level of respect

1064
00:50:41,516 --> 00:50:43,596
Speaker 4: or like how seriously you took her was similar to

1065
00:50:43,636 --> 00:50:45,956
Speaker 4: how seriously you took me. That was like super important

1066
00:50:45,996 --> 00:50:47,596
Speaker 4: for me to know in the beginning, because I'd like

1067
00:50:47,636 --> 00:50:50,316
Speaker 4: I didn't know, I didn't know like what like the

1068
00:50:50,436 --> 00:50:52,996
Speaker 4: vibe was, Like, I didn't know if it was a

1069
00:50:53,036 --> 00:50:56,396
Speaker 4: favor or like a like you know, I think that

1070
00:50:56,436 --> 00:50:58,436
Speaker 4: became clear to me in the beginning.

1071
00:50:59,116 --> 00:51:03,756
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's really moving for you to even

1072
00:51:03,796 --> 00:51:07,196
Speaker 3: say or bring up that you ever wondered if it

1073
00:51:07,236 --> 00:51:10,236
Speaker 3: was a favor, and that's like a really cool, really strong,

1074
00:51:10,276 --> 00:51:13,156
Speaker 3: and really vulnerable thing to say, And actually the answer

1075
00:51:13,236 --> 00:51:19,916
Speaker 3: is absolutely fucking not. You know, I love I love

1076
00:51:19,916 --> 00:51:23,476
Speaker 3: you guys, I love your family, But music, like I

1077
00:51:23,516 --> 00:51:25,836
Speaker 3: will cut through anyone like a hot knife through butter

1078
00:51:26,236 --> 00:51:31,036
Speaker 3: for music to prevail, And unless I really believe that

1079
00:51:31,156 --> 00:51:33,756
Speaker 3: it's great and I'm putting good art, you know, into

1080
00:51:33,756 --> 00:51:36,316
Speaker 3: the world with the help of a good artist, then

1081
00:51:36,796 --> 00:51:38,476
Speaker 3: I would find other ways to support you.

1082
00:51:39,236 --> 00:51:41,236
Speaker 2: How much music gets sent to you, Brandy, Like how

1083
00:51:41,236 --> 00:51:43,396
Speaker 2: many people are trying to get you to produce them.

1084
00:51:44,036 --> 00:51:49,036
Speaker 3: I get asked a lot, especially lately, by my heroes,

1085
00:51:49,476 --> 00:51:53,916
Speaker 3: like heroes are coming along, and I have to be

1086
00:51:54,196 --> 00:51:58,916
Speaker 3: really careful because I will gladly just jump into their

1087
00:51:58,916 --> 00:52:01,636
Speaker 3: skin and live their life like happily. I'll get right

1088
00:52:01,676 --> 00:52:05,796
Speaker 3: into it. Their whole cause will become my cause. So

1089
00:52:05,916 --> 00:52:08,076
Speaker 3: I have to be really clear about where I'm at

1090
00:52:08,316 --> 00:52:10,156
Speaker 3: in my life and if I can afford to do that.

1091
00:52:10,676 --> 00:52:12,636
Speaker 3: I think I'm learning as a producer. I don't know

1092
00:52:12,676 --> 00:52:15,716
Speaker 3: how to casually make an album. I don't know how

1093
00:52:15,756 --> 00:52:18,636
Speaker 3: to not make it a spiritual thing and not become

1094
00:52:19,316 --> 00:52:21,796
Speaker 3: really invested in that artist and their music, and then

1095
00:52:21,836 --> 00:52:23,876
Speaker 3: how that music is received after the fact, and then

1096
00:52:23,916 --> 00:52:26,876
Speaker 3: make sure that people are understanding that how important they

1097
00:52:26,876 --> 00:52:29,436
Speaker 3: are to the world. Like I just's a really mission

1098
00:52:29,476 --> 00:52:33,556
Speaker 3: based producer. So I do get asked a lot, but

1099
00:52:33,596 --> 00:52:36,156
Speaker 3: I really probably couldn't do this more than once or

1100
00:52:36,196 --> 00:52:38,236
Speaker 3: twice a year, even if I wanted to.

1101
00:52:38,996 --> 00:52:41,836
Speaker 2: How does it affect you outside of the studio if

1102
00:52:41,836 --> 00:52:44,516
Speaker 2: you are working with an artist and you're jumping into

1103
00:52:44,556 --> 00:52:47,036
Speaker 2: their skin, and then you have to go home and

1104
00:52:47,156 --> 00:52:51,556
Speaker 2: deal with everything that goes on at home, raising the kids, marriage,

1105
00:52:52,276 --> 00:52:53,556
Speaker 2: how are you able.

1106
00:52:53,356 --> 00:52:55,756
Speaker 3: To I usually stuck my wife into it. By the way,

1107
00:52:55,836 --> 00:53:00,796
Speaker 3: my life then becomes invested in that person too. Yeah,

1108
00:53:01,036 --> 00:53:03,956
Speaker 3: it's just hard, Like yeah, it becomes a family thing,

1109
00:53:04,076 --> 00:53:07,196
Speaker 3: like our whole family gets involved, you know, and it's

1110
00:53:07,276 --> 00:53:11,196
Speaker 3: just so satisfying. If that's what life is, great, I'm

1111
00:53:11,236 --> 00:53:14,156
Speaker 3: into it. I don't feel like there are any deficiencies,

1112
00:53:14,476 --> 00:53:16,596
Speaker 3: but I do know. I do know that, like it's

1113
00:53:16,636 --> 00:53:18,436
Speaker 3: a magical feeling that I have to be careful. I

1114
00:53:18,476 --> 00:53:21,036
Speaker 3: don't dilute by doing too often. So I do get

1115
00:53:21,556 --> 00:53:23,356
Speaker 3: a lot of music, and I do get asked a lot,

1116
00:53:23,476 --> 00:53:25,236
Speaker 3: but I'm only going to do it a few times

1117
00:53:25,276 --> 00:53:27,836
Speaker 3: here and there when I know it's just spot on

1118
00:53:27,916 --> 00:53:30,396
Speaker 3: the right thing to do musically, like it was with Tish.

1119
00:53:30,836 --> 00:53:33,636
Speaker 2: Tell me about performing at the at Brandy's Girls Just

1120
00:53:33,676 --> 00:53:38,316
Speaker 2: Want To Festival. The venue was a little bit unconventional

1121
00:53:38,436 --> 00:53:41,716
Speaker 2: the stage. Tell me from your perspective what that experience

1122
00:53:41,876 --> 00:53:42,156
Speaker 2: was like.

1123
00:53:42,796 --> 00:53:44,876
Speaker 3: Just be honest. It's a pool full of gaye, That's

1124
00:53:44,876 --> 00:53:45,276
Speaker 3: what it was.

1125
00:53:45,676 --> 00:53:48,956
Speaker 4: I mean, I just think I always feel so safe

1126
00:53:49,036 --> 00:53:51,436
Speaker 4: in those like I think I'm so spoiled with like

1127
00:53:51,956 --> 00:53:53,996
Speaker 4: for like some of my first big shows, I get

1128
00:53:54,036 --> 00:53:56,876
Speaker 4: to play in front of Brandy's crowd because they're so

1129
00:53:57,036 --> 00:54:01,476
Speaker 4: nice and they're so supportive. And maybe I'll have to

1130
00:54:01,476 --> 00:54:04,236
Speaker 4: go to the real world it sometime soon and maybe

1131
00:54:04,356 --> 00:54:06,836
Speaker 4: people won't be as nice, But for now, I'm really

1132
00:54:06,836 --> 00:54:09,036
Speaker 4: grateful to be able to play in front of support

1133
00:54:09,196 --> 00:54:10,196
Speaker 4: of crowds like that.

1134
00:54:10,876 --> 00:54:12,716
Speaker 2: Yeah, how is that for you? Brandy? Being on stage

1135
00:54:12,716 --> 00:54:14,596
Speaker 2: with Tish, I love.

1136
00:54:14,476 --> 00:54:18,596
Speaker 3: It so much. I just like watching her stand there

1137
00:54:18,636 --> 00:54:20,956
Speaker 3: and just like have all this agency, just like owns

1138
00:54:20,996 --> 00:54:22,876
Speaker 3: her space. I don't care who she's in front of.

1139
00:54:22,916 --> 00:54:26,356
Speaker 3: She's gonna garner the same reaction, which is awe, Like

1140
00:54:26,676 --> 00:54:29,436
Speaker 3: everybody's in awe of like how this certainty is coming

1141
00:54:29,476 --> 00:54:32,676
Speaker 3: out of this of this person, and that certainty is

1142
00:54:32,676 --> 00:54:36,916
Speaker 3: comforting and beautiful and it's wisdom, It's sage wisdom. People

1143
00:54:36,956 --> 00:54:39,236
Speaker 3: need it. And at the same time you are so

1144
00:54:39,476 --> 00:54:43,076
Speaker 3: self aware, Tish. I mean, I get as much from

1145
00:54:43,556 --> 00:54:45,916
Speaker 3: your interviews in these conversations with you as I do

1146
00:54:46,276 --> 00:54:48,516
Speaker 3: your music. I just think your really important voice.

1147
00:54:49,396 --> 00:54:53,076
Speaker 2: Thanks well, thank you both so much for doing this,

1148
00:54:53,836 --> 00:54:55,796
Speaker 2: and best of luck with the EP, and I can't

1149
00:54:55,796 --> 00:54:57,396
Speaker 2: wait to hear more songs in the future.

1150
00:54:58,076 --> 00:55:00,316
Speaker 3: What a great chat. Thank you. That was a blast,

1151
00:55:00,316 --> 00:55:02,196
Speaker 3: and I can't wait to chat about my next project

1152
00:55:02,236 --> 00:55:02,436
Speaker 3: with you.

1153
00:55:02,796 --> 00:55:03,276
Speaker 5: Thank you.

1154
00:55:03,956 --> 00:55:05,036
Speaker 3: I love this podcast.

1155
00:55:05,276 --> 00:55:11,316
Speaker 1: Oh thanks Ish Melton and Brandy Carlisle for talking about

1156
00:55:11,356 --> 00:55:15,156
Speaker 1: their creative partnership. Tish's EP, When We're Older is out

1157
00:55:15,276 --> 00:55:17,876
Speaker 1: now and you can hear all of our favorite songs

1158
00:55:17,876 --> 00:55:20,156
Speaker 1: from Tits and Brandy, along with some of the songs

1159
00:55:20,196 --> 00:55:23,156
Speaker 1: mentioned in this conversation on a playlist at broken record

1160
00:55:23,196 --> 00:55:27,076
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube

1161
00:55:27,116 --> 00:55:29,916
Speaker 1: dot com slash broken record Podcast, where you can find

1162
00:55:30,036 --> 00:55:32,956
Speaker 1: all of our new episodes. You can follow us on

1163
00:55:32,996 --> 00:55:36,876
Speaker 1: Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited

1164
00:55:36,916 --> 00:55:39,676
Speaker 1: by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler and

1165
00:55:39,756 --> 00:55:44,036
Speaker 1: Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliney. Broken Record is

1166
00:55:44,076 --> 00:55:47,436
Speaker 1: a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show

1167
00:55:47,516 --> 00:55:52,076
Speaker 1: and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin

1168
00:55:52,116 --> 00:55:55,116
Speaker 1: Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and

1169
00:55:55,196 --> 00:55:58,676
Speaker 1: ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look

1170
00:55:58,676 --> 00:56:02,436
Speaker 1: for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if you

1171
00:56:02,556 --> 00:56:05,156
Speaker 1: like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review

1172
00:56:05,236 --> 00:56:08,396
Speaker 1: us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats.

1173
00:56:08,556 --> 00:56:10,316
Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond.