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Speaker 3: Bowing also at risk of losing its investment grade credit
Speaker 3: rating is the Planemaker face is the prospect of a
Speaker 3: drawn out strike by workers that will further disrupt production
Speaker 3: and cash flow. Carol factory workers walking off the job
Speaker 3: for the first time in sixteen years. They halted manufacturing
Speaker 3: across the Seattle hub of Boeing after members of its
Speaker 3: largest union voted overwhelmingly to reject a contract offer and
Speaker 3: go on strike. I gotta tell you, George Ferguson earlier
Speaker 3: this week when you were out Yep, he said, this
Speaker 3: negotiation is by no means over at this point.
Speaker 4: All right, So that's why we wanted to check in
Speaker 4: once again with him. Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Aerospace, Defense and
Speaker 4: Airlines Alls George Ferguson does join us from New Jersey. George,
Speaker 4: First of all, we've been, you know, anticipating this, this
Speaker 4: strike long versus short How important is that?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 5: I think very important to Boeing. I'm sure the machinists
Speaker 5: as well, but the Boeing I think more so. Right,
Speaker 5: a long strike really, I think runs the risk of
Speaker 5: hurting the supply chain even more so, I think if
Speaker 5: boe gets into this strike, they have to really think
Speaker 5: about cash cash on their balance sheet. We think they're
Speaker 5: likely to burn three three and a half billion dollars
Speaker 5: where the cash in three q probably putting them close
Speaker 5: to about nine billion dollars of cash in the balance sheet. Wow,
Speaker 5: that's about the bottom of I think what they need
Speaker 5: to run the company. And so I think, you know,
Speaker 5: if they don't get workers back on lines building airplanes,
Speaker 5: bringing cash in the door, they'll have to go. They'll
Speaker 5: definitely have to go to the capital markets. And then
Speaker 5: they got to figure out, right they want to go
Speaker 5: to the debt markets. I think the rating aencies wouldn't
Speaker 5: like that for sure, right, that might push them into
Speaker 5: less than the investment great they do that.
Speaker 6: Equity investors never liked being diluted.
Speaker 5: So the cash position and some of those considerations mean,
Speaker 5: you know, Boeing's back is sort of really against the
Speaker 5: wall here.
Speaker 4: Well, talk to us about this Moody's. This is about
Speaker 4: two hours ago or so. Moody says Boeing. Boeing's ratings
Speaker 4: maybe cut to junk with a company that already you
Speaker 4: just walked us through the Boeing balance sheet already stressed.
Speaker 7: What would that mean if.
Speaker 4: It was cut to junk, and especially if it sounds
Speaker 4: like it could need to tap the capital markets, debt
Speaker 4: markets in particular.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So, I mean, I'm not the credit analyst ongoing,
Speaker 5: but I'll tell you that. You know, I've spent time
Speaker 5: in credit teams at Blackrock and such, so I don't
Speaker 5: know the exact spread they would get enough to go
Speaker 5: play around that, but it'll mean higher spreads, right, which
Speaker 5: mean higher interest rates for raising money at Boeing. Plus,
Speaker 5: you get into this bad game where when a company
Speaker 5: goes less than investment grade, there are some funds that
Speaker 5: can't hold less than investment great paper, right, and sometimes
Speaker 5: they'll end up having to get that, you know, put
Speaker 5: that paper on the on the market. That doesn't help
Speaker 5: prices of the debt either. So two things I think
Speaker 5: they really want to be avoiding bone What.
Speaker 3: About reputational damage here? We've talked a lot about financial damage,
Speaker 3: but what about reputational damage. I mean, at the end
Speaker 3: of the day, this is a I think it's fair
Speaker 3: to say a lot of people would call this a duopoly. George,
Speaker 3: Is the company at risk from a customer perspective at all?
Speaker 3: Or are these customers locked in because you know, Airbus
Speaker 3: is sold out of the A three twenty till the
Speaker 3: end of the decade.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that makes it hard right for people
Speaker 5: to move, for customers to move, you know, and we
Speaker 5: continue to watch deliveries every single month and there's still
Speaker 5: a lot of core customers. We even looked at the
Speaker 5: expected deliveries till the end of the year, and it's
Speaker 5: core customers.
Speaker 6: That are taking airplanes.
Speaker 5: It's it's Ryanair at Southwest, United Airlines, it's Alaska, it's
Speaker 5: gall out of Brazil, it's COPA out of Panama, all
Speaker 5: good airlines.
Speaker 6: I think going less than investment grade doesn't worry them.
Speaker 5: They're I think they're just watching closely to see how
Speaker 5: stable Boeing is. If they can improve manufacturing, improved quality,
Speaker 5: I think that alone will keep them coming back to Boeing.
Speaker 5: Like you said, due to the long stretch for A
Speaker 5: three twenties due to the cost of changing airplane types
Speaker 5: in those fleets.
Speaker 6: Lots of those fleets are are pure.
Speaker 5: Fleets, so you save money on by the training and
Speaker 5: save money on your maintenance pools and things like that.
Speaker 5: But I mean, I think you know this is not
Speaker 5: a road that Boeing wants to keep going down. Clearly, right,
Speaker 5: when you go less than investment grade, it means risks
Speaker 5: are rising of a default.
Speaker 6: US government probably don't see that, lees they don't want
Speaker 6: to see them. That's the challenge, right, is that you've
Speaker 6: got to stem in at some point.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure if we've showed this already to viewers
Speaker 4: and for those folks are listening on radio as well,
Speaker 4: but Boeing's revenues, we've got a chart and it just
Speaker 4: shows how they have been declining right and moving lower,
Speaker 4: and I understand the reasons why. And we're bringing up
Speaker 4: the chart and you're seeing, you know, the last couple
Speaker 4: of quarters. This is not a trend line that you
Speaker 4: want to see. It's not a healthy trend line. What
Speaker 4: does it take to turn it around at this point?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think that they have in place
Speaker 5: what they need to turn it around, right, And that
Speaker 5: was after the Alaska door problem right there. Really needed
Speaker 5: to get the FAA comfortable that they were improving manufacturing,
Speaker 5: improving quality.
Speaker 6: You know, they're going to.
Speaker 5: Go in and buy Spirit Aerosystems, major supplier of the
Speaker 5: fuselage in the seven thirty seven.
Speaker 6: And now I should step back and say, look, the
Speaker 6: seven thirty seven is right.
Speaker 5: It's really I think the most critical component of this
Speaker 5: turnaround because that's the money maker, the profit generator at
Speaker 5: the company, and that's where they've had their problems, right
Speaker 5: and they've got a plan in place to go buy
Speaker 5: Spirit Aerosystems, and now it's a fun keeping that supply
Speaker 5: chain healthy enough and starting to increase, you know, the
Speaker 5: components they build, so Boeing can pull those into the factory,
Speaker 5: build more airplanes, push them out the door, and generate
Speaker 5: revenue and cash flow. Going is sitting though on eighty
Speaker 5: five billion dollars in inventory right now, is taking from
Speaker 5: suppliers at a thirty one rate, and they're not delivering
Speaker 5: at a thirty one rate, and that becomes the problem too.
Speaker 3: Hey, George, we only have like ten seconds left here,
Speaker 3: But back to the strike. What's the timeline that investor
Speaker 3: should understand here. How long do you think it'll take
Speaker 3: to get resolved?
Speaker 5: You know, I really think this is going to be
Speaker 5: resolved in a couple of weeks to a month. I
Speaker 5: just don't see going able to let it go on
Speaker 5: much longer than that. I think they just have to
Speaker 5: increase the salary, you know, increases, and they're going to
Speaker 5: have to.
Speaker 6: I think the union is going to want more guarantees
Speaker 6: on an airplane. The long to take the next seveneen seven.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the CFO already talking about the goal of building
Speaker 4: thirty seven thirty seven Max jets a month by year
Speaker 4: and will take longer due to the workers strike, so
Speaker 4: we know that there's already some delays. George Ferguson, thank you,
Speaker 4: Thank you as always, have a great weekend.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 4: In the United Airlines announcing a deal for SpaceX's Starlink
Speaker 4: to power it's in flight Wi Fi, becoming the first
Speaker 4: major US carrier to use the satellite system and giving
Speaker 4: the Elon Musk run company, a marquee customer. Now the
Speaker 4: telecom sector and how we stay connected. It really continues
Speaker 4: to evolve, gets disrupted. Which brings us to the tiny
Speaker 4: telecom company that wants to compete with SpaceX.
Speaker 7: Check this out, everybody.
Speaker 4: It has become one of the hottest stocks in the
Speaker 4: world this year after soaring from two dollars to nearly
Speaker 4: thirty dollars.
Speaker 7: In just six months. So Tim, let's get to the interview.
Speaker 3: It's up another thirteen percent as we speak today. Joining
Speaker 3: us from Boston, We've got Scott was Newski, president of
Speaker 3: the eight point one billion dollar market cap wireless telecom
Speaker 3: company AST Space Mobile, the company building a global cellular
Speaker 3: broadband network in space to operate directly with standard unmodified
Speaker 3: mobile devices. Scott, Welcome to Bloomberg Business Week. Good to
Speaker 3: have you explain for the layperson how this technology works
Speaker 3: and how it's different from typical five G technology that
Speaker 3: they'd get from a typical wireless operator that sends them
Speaker 3: the signal on the ground.
Speaker 8: Well, thank you for having us today.
Speaker 9: Our technology is space based, it's in lower forbit and
Speaker 9: it functions as a sort of replacement for a seal
Speaker 9: tower on the ground. It uses today's wireless frequencies, today's
Speaker 9: cell phones, and it's backwards compatible with the five billion
Speaker 9: plus phones that we use today around the world.
Speaker 8: So you are a user.
Speaker 9: Our partners in the US are AT and T and Verizon.
Speaker 9: If you're a customer of one of them, have a
Speaker 9: plan with them. The phone in your pocket in the
Speaker 9: future will be able to access our satellite, our satellite
Speaker 9: network in space, and so we have the technology and
Speaker 9: the patents to make that work in a way that
Speaker 9: was never contemplated before because space is so far away.
Speaker 8: But we have the technology in orbit.
Speaker 9: We just launched five satellites this week, and the size
Speaker 9: of our satellites allow us connect to regular, small, low
Speaker 9: powered cell phones.
Speaker 3: In your view, Scott, does this replace cell phone towers?
Speaker 3: Should companies like American Tower be concerned?
Speaker 9: Well, that's an excellent question when we often get but
Speaker 9: American Tower is actually invested in US twice. So we
Speaker 9: are designed to supplement cellular networks on the ground. Because
Speaker 9: of physics, terrestrial networks will always be best served people
Speaker 9: that are nearby. Our towers in the sky are over
Speaker 9: five hundred miles away, so we.
Speaker 8: Are a supplemental coverage.
Speaker 9: When your phone is quiet and has no coverage or
Speaker 9: weak coverage, that's when we come in. And it makes
Speaker 9: a lot of sense for us because we have the
Speaker 9: able to cover half the country with.
Speaker 8: Only one satellite at a time.
Speaker 9: So it's a very efficient way for operators like ATMT
Speaker 9: and Verizon and the other forty five around the world
Speaker 9: that we have agreements with, who collectively have over two
Speaker 9: point eight billion subscribers. So we're really an extension of
Speaker 9: their networks, and we were designed from the beginning to
Speaker 9: complement their networks, work with their distinct technology and work
Speaker 9: with the phone in your pocket without even.
Speaker 4: Million all right, so supplementing, complementing, But at some point
Speaker 4: couldn't be couldn't be that what you do be comprehensive.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think about Starlink, and they certainly look
Speaker 4: to seem to want to be comprehensive in terms of
Speaker 4: their capabilities. But I'm curious for you guys. You know,
Speaker 4: American Tower might be joining up with you guys just
Speaker 4: to be prepared for kind of what's next and what
Speaker 4: might be the future, rather than what they are doing currently.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's a really interesting question, and it gets back
Speaker 9: to what the cell company is and the tower companies
Speaker 9: have created over the last couple decades, which is an
Speaker 9: incredible network that covers most of the population. There are
Speaker 9: there are spots that are missed, but today's trestrial networks
Speaker 9: are very good, so so we'll never replace that.
Speaker 8: It's just a question of physics.
Speaker 9: Our satellites are the largest ever put into lower th
Speaker 9: orbit commercially, it's over seven hundred square foot each. We've
Speaker 9: been flying one for the last two years and we
Speaker 9: just launched five more yesterday. So we are going to
Speaker 9: be able to provide a lot of coverage from a
Speaker 9: from a satellite perspective.
Speaker 7: What's a lot? What's a lot?
Speaker 4: When you think about people who are using would need
Speaker 4: to tap into the service sixty seventy percent, what's a lot?
Speaker 9: Well, we have the ability so you may be familiar
Speaker 9: with other satellite services. They're they're starting to pop up
Speaker 9: on phones today and those tend to be SOS, emergency,
Speaker 9: maybe some limited texting.
Speaker 8: We've tested four.
Speaker 9: G five G speeds to the phone over the last
Speaker 9: year and that was a big part of the technical
Speaker 9: demonstrations we did last year where our partners eighteen in
Speaker 9: Vota Phone in Europe and racketing in Japan, and so
Speaker 9: we've done over twenty megabits per second to the phone.
Speaker 8: But this is a supplement.
Speaker 9: Think about extra gigabytes to the phone, not your base package. Typically,
Speaker 9: this is an add on for when you're moving in
Speaker 9: and out of coverage as you live, work and travel,
Speaker 9: or importantly in the developing world. We have the ability
Speaker 9: to help really put a dent in the two point
Speaker 9: five billion people who don't have any cellular broadband access today.
Speaker 9: So it's really meant to be a supplement, but it
Speaker 9: is a large supplement, and that's why it's a cellular
Speaker 9: broadband network.
Speaker 3: Scott, we said, do you want to compete with SpaceX,
Speaker 3: but you also rely on SpaceX. For example, yesterday you
Speaker 3: launched five commercial satellites a top a SpaceX Falcon nine rocket.
Speaker 3: Explain your relationship with SpaceX here, and remember SpaceX owns Starlink.
Speaker 3: So that's why we're talking about this.
Speaker 9: That's right, And so what we're doing is very different
Speaker 9: from what Startling and others that this is historically done, which.
Speaker 8: Is talking to a dish.
Speaker 9: You know, we're standing up a brain new vertical within
Speaker 9: satellite telecommunications of going directly to the phone and it's
Speaker 9: all about working with the wireless carriers globally, so we're
Speaker 9: not a closed system. We work with today's standard phones,
Speaker 9: which have been standardized globally and are really incredible and
Speaker 9: we all benefit from them every day. So we're standing
Speaker 9: up a new vertical within satellite telecommunications that really looks
Speaker 9: and feels like a wireless network and to get to
Speaker 9: orbit to build that network, we're actually we're actually vertically integrated.
Speaker 8: We're based in Texas. We build our own satellites.
Speaker 9: It's an incredible core competency of ours and very very
Speaker 9: important to building any lower orbit networks. So we build
Speaker 9: our satellites ourselves, and then in terms of launching that network,
Speaker 9: we plan to work with all the major launch providers globally.
Speaker 4: What's the toughest part of what you are doing right now?
Speaker 4: Do you have enough capital to do what you need? Obviously,
Speaker 4: investors are pretty excited about what you're doing.
Speaker 7: What's the difficulties now?
Speaker 8: The unlock for us this year was really it really started.
Speaker 9: In January when we announced investment from AT and T,
Speaker 9: Vota Phone and Google, and then we follow that up
Speaker 9: with investment by Verizon in May. And so for US
Speaker 9: we're publicly traded on the Nasdaq. We've raised over one
Speaker 9: point five billion. We feel very good about our capitalization
Speaker 9: to achieve our near term objectives, and so.
Speaker 8: We feel good about capital.
Speaker 9: We feel great about the technology, with the demonstrations we've
Speaker 9: done over the last two years with our in orbit satellite. Yeah,
Speaker 9: and for us, it's really a race against time. We're
Speaker 9: building our satellite network as fast as we can, and
Speaker 9: our partners are very excited and based on the hundreds
Speaker 9: of investors who traveled to watch our launch this week
Speaker 9: at five am in the morning, they're very excited as well.
Speaker 9: I think there's a real strong latent demand for our service,
Speaker 9: and it comes from the fact that when our phone
Speaker 9: does not work, we feel very heavy.
Speaker 8: In our pocket paste and so.
Speaker 7: Super quick ten seconds. Do you go it alone? Is
Speaker 7: that the plan? Or would you be open to linking
Speaker 7: up with someone real quickly?
Speaker 9: Well, we're already partnered with many wireless operators right age,
Speaker 9: So that's all we do is we need them.
Speaker 4: All right, good, leave it there, look forward to future conversation.
Speaker 4: Scott Wazanouski, he's president, chief president of AST Space Mobile,
Speaker 4: joining us.
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Speaker 4: All right, we knew we had to do this story,
Speaker 4: no doubt about it. It is among the most read
Speaker 4: on the Bloomberg terminal. It's also because it's someone associated
Speaker 4: with former President Donald Trump and key and Trump's thoughts
Speaker 4: when it comes to crypto. All right, we couldn't say
Speaker 4: it enough. Today we want to get to the dirt
Speaker 4: bag of the internet. We are going to ask about that.
Speaker 4: That kind of name, if you will, is the reporter
Speaker 4: who's been looking into him, writing about him.
Speaker 7: It is Zeke Fox.
Speaker 4: He's Bloomberg News Financial investigations reporter, author of Number Go Up,
Speaker 4: Inside Crypto's wild Rise and Staggering Fall. So he follows
Speaker 4: the crypto world very closely. Zeke is with us in
Speaker 4: New York City.
Speaker 7: All right, Zeke? Who is Chase Harrow or should we
Speaker 7: say Chase Hero, which is kind of it.
Speaker 10: It is pronounced hero, even though he spells it with
Speaker 10: two rs and he's the man behind World Liberty Financial,
Speaker 10: which I mean, just this in itself is kind of shocking.
Speaker 10: This is a crypto startup that the Trumps are promoting
Speaker 10: just you know, a couple of months before the election,
Speaker 10: and Donald Trump is going to unveil all the details
Speaker 10: he promises in a live stream on Monday. So I
Speaker 10: decided to dig into this business partner. And like you said,
Speaker 10: he calls himself the dirt bag of the Internet. And
Speaker 10: that's just the beginning of the story.
Speaker 4: Just what every presidential candidate wants to be connected with,
Speaker 4: the dirt bag of the Internet.
Speaker 3: Well, what do we know about Trump's connection to this?
Speaker 3: What role does he play in it? What role do
Speaker 3: his sons play in it? How connected is he to it?
Speaker 10: So here's the story from what I've heard, is that Hero,
Speaker 10: who until recently was running a one hundred and forty
Speaker 10: nine dollars a month get rich Quick class and he's
Speaker 10: a total unknown in the crypto world. But through a
Speaker 10: friend of Trump's, he got connected to the Trumps, and
Speaker 10: Hero had a defive venture called Doe Again just one
Speaker 10: of like countless crypto startups that seem to have failed
Speaker 10: to attract much Trading at All is a place to
Speaker 10: borrow and lend, but just only attracted a few million
Speaker 10: dollars before getting hacked, and Hero pitched them on starting
Speaker 10: a new venture that would be similar to DOE. But
Speaker 10: it's called World Liberty and I obtained a white paper
Speaker 10: for it. The Donald Trumps is at the top of
Speaker 10: the list of the people involved. His sons, Donald Trump
Speaker 10: Junior and Eric are Web three ambassadors, and even Baron Trump,
Speaker 10: his eighteen year old son, who just started his freshman
Speaker 10: year at NYU, is listed as a defive visionary. So
Speaker 10: the Trump family seems to be, you know, deeply connected
Speaker 10: to this. But from what I've heard, it's a Hero
Speaker 10: and his longtime friend and business partner, Zachary Folkman, who
Speaker 10: used to be a teach pickup artist classes like how
Speaker 10: to teach men how to hit on women. These are
Speaker 10: the brains of the operation.
Speaker 7: I mean, I know we're having fun with this. I mean,
Speaker 7: but I feel like, you know, the crypto world like.
Speaker 4: We have to be careful. We've seen, you know, when
Speaker 4: things can go astray. I mean, what do you I
Speaker 4: don't know the respected folks within the crypto world do
Speaker 4: they know this person, do they have views on this person.
Speaker 10: Right, like crypto, this is in the industry where you know,
Speaker 10: it counts as like a innovative startup if you just
Speaker 10: sell coins with a picture of a dog or a
Speaker 10: cat on them or something like that. And even in
Speaker 10: this world crypto investor were like, we never heard of
Speaker 10: this guy. This seems super dubious. They people were really
Speaker 10: excited because Donald Trump, who used to call bitcoin a scam,
Speaker 10: he changed his position and he said he's going to
Speaker 10: fire Gary Gensler, the SEC chairman, who's the enemy of
Speaker 10: the industry, and he's going to push for new regulations
Speaker 10: that will help crypto. So everybody liked that. And now
Speaker 10: they're like, ooh, you're gonna do your own coin.
Speaker 8: No, this is a bad look.
Speaker 10: That was the consensus of the dozen or so crypto
Speaker 10: investors that I talked to.
Speaker 3: What are they actually be selling those zeke And when
Speaker 3: we look at Trump's history and business, obviously he's known
Speaker 3: for real estate, but there have been many failed businesses too,
Speaker 3: I mean Trump Airlines, Trump Steaks, Trump University, Trum Vodka,
Speaker 3: some of the casinos. Yes, no question there. We know
Speaker 3: what he was selling with those though that it was
Speaker 3: in the name. What is he actually selling with this project, So.
Speaker 10: The details that he announces may change. But according to
Speaker 10: the white paper, this is going to be like a
Speaker 10: platform for borrowing and lending, and it's going to have
Speaker 10: its own token, also called World Liberty, I believe, and
Speaker 10: the token has some sort of use within the platform.
Speaker 10: But the way this works in crypto often is that
Speaker 10: the startup is basically an excuse to sell the token,
Speaker 10: and you're hoping that the celebrities associated with the project
Speaker 10: are famous and that people want to buy the token
Speaker 10: because of that. And Trump certainly is very famous. And
Speaker 10: we have a great example. Trump has a stock on
Speaker 10: Trump Media and Technology that owns a social network called
Speaker 10: truth Social and the network has almost zero revenue, but
Speaker 10: the stock is worth something like three billion dollars. So
Speaker 10: you could see how you might want to replicate that
Speaker 10: formula in the in the crypto world.
Speaker 4: So to kind of build on Tim's question, Zeke, I mean,
Speaker 4: is it right about making money for the Trump family?
Speaker 4: Is it about you know, it's an election year, right
Speaker 4: and the days are ticking down to the election outcome
Speaker 4: come November. Is it a way for Donald Trump to
Speaker 4: reach out to you a sector of the electorate that
Speaker 4: might find this interesting and engaging because he's going on
Speaker 4: podcasts that certainly maybe play to a certain audience.
Speaker 10: Yes, I mean, if he's trying to do this as
Speaker 10: a way to reach out to the crypto world. From
Speaker 10: the feedback I'm getting, this was a mistake and what
Speaker 10: they said is it seems more like a cash grab.
Speaker 10: And one crypto investor I spoke to said that it
Speaker 10: felt like almost Trump was asking for a favor in
Speaker 10: return after promising lighter regulations, and that's why, you know,
Speaker 10: experts that I talked to said that it's a conflict
Speaker 10: of interest for a presidential candidate or a future president
Speaker 10: to be promoting a private company in an industry where
Speaker 10: they have a big and how it's regulated.
Speaker 3: Zeke, You've kind to join us at the perfect time
Speaker 3: because there's actually some breaking news around Trump Media and Technology.
Speaker 3: Take our DJT shares are halted for volatility after rising
Speaker 3: thirteen percent because as Donald Trump was giving remarks in California,
Speaker 3: he said he will not sell shares of Trump Media
Speaker 3: and Technology. There was concern that as the lock up
Speaker 3: period expires next week, he would start unloading shares. He
Speaker 3: is the largest shareholder of the company, but he did
Speaker 3: say at a press conference, Carrol to reporters that he
Speaker 3: will not sell Trump Media Group shares. So it does
Speaker 3: show the power of the president to I mean, look
Speaker 3: or the former president excuse me, republican presidential candidate. What
Speaker 3: he says moves stocks, what he says can sell or
Speaker 3: cause people, you know, to buy yourself.
Speaker 4: Well, absolutely, and we should point out that earlier in
Speaker 4: the week, right coming off of the debate, we saw
Speaker 4: the day after the debate shares of Trump Media and
Speaker 4: Technology down about ten percent, followed by the following day
Speaker 4: another three percent declined. So him coming in and saying
Speaker 4: I'm not selling, you know, providing some support, but nonetheless
Speaker 4: the stock is traded.
Speaker 7: All right, So where do we go from here?
Speaker 4: I mean, were you able to talk to Chase, were
Speaker 4: you able to get anything from the company about what
Speaker 4: they are doing, because it just feels like there's lots
Speaker 4: of questions, maybe not so much transparency.
Speaker 10: Yeah, Chase did not give me an interview, and the
Speaker 10: company said that my story and my questions about it
Speaker 10: seemed to be pointing in a certain direction that they
Speaker 10: disagree with, and that time will show that this is
Speaker 10: truly an innovative platform. But I just look at what
Speaker 10: Chase himself has said in past videos about crypto. I mean,
Speaker 10: I can't even read most of this on the air,
Speaker 10: but he had said that regulators should kick people like
Speaker 10: him out of the industry. He said, you could sell
Speaker 10: anything if the story's right. I mean, it just seems
Speaker 10: it's very surprising to me that Trump will be starting
Speaker 10: a venture with this guy so close through the election.
Speaker 3: It is, it is a little puzzling given the timing.
Speaker 3: But you also write in the story about the former
Speaker 3: president's conversion to crypto believer over the last couple of years.
Speaker 10: Yeah, so he in this was also shocking to me.
Speaker 10: In July, he flew to Nashville and gave a big
Speaker 10: speech at the Bitcoin Conference, and in this speech he
Speaker 10: repeated like the crypto industry's wish list of things, and
Speaker 10: he said fire Gary Gensler. He said he would establish
Speaker 10: a national strategic stockpile of bitcoins. I mean, it was
Speaker 10: a complete turnaround from what he thought about crypto before
Speaker 10: in the crypto industry. In return, or in response, held
Speaker 10: a fundraiser at this conference and raised what they said
Speaker 10: was twenty five million dollars for his campaign. And you know,
Speaker 10: it sort of seemed like that was the that was
Speaker 10: the end of it, and then him and his son
Speaker 10: started promoting this world liberty and they're saying this is
Speaker 10: going to change the world of finance. It's going to
Speaker 10: take on the big banks. And that's why I decided
Speaker 10: to look into the background of the people involved see
Speaker 10: if they had the kind of experience that would let
Speaker 10: them do that, and it seems very doubtful.
Speaker 4: All right, So Monday, just to wrap up thirty seconds here,
Speaker 4: So when the former president Donald Trump presents or makes
Speaker 4: some comments about this, what are you looking out for.
Speaker 4: What's kind of key that you think our audience should
Speaker 4: listen for.
Speaker 10: Well, one thing I'll be watching for is is will
Speaker 10: they actually be selling a new coin. You can start
Speaker 10: a crypto app without it having its own coin, and
Speaker 10: so if it doesn't have its own coin, then it's
Speaker 10: less of a way to make quick money. If they
Speaker 10: are selling a new coin, I want to know the
Speaker 10: details of that coin, how it works, how people are
Speaker 10: going to buy it, because it also this model of
Speaker 10: initial coin offerings of selling new coins, this has gotten
Speaker 10: people into a lot of trouble with the SEC in
Speaker 10: the past. So if he's going to go and do that.
Speaker 10: It could set up a conflict with Gary Gensler in
Speaker 10: the near future over his own venture.
Speaker 7: All right, going to leave it there.
Speaker 4: Unbelievable interesting stuff though great read, great read, as we said,
Speaker 4: among the most read zeg Fox Bloomberg News Financial investigations reporter.
Speaker 4: He's also author of Nember Go Up, Inside Crypto's Wild
Speaker 4: Rise and Staggering Fall. Joining us in New York City.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live
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Speaker 3: What comes to mind, Carol when you hear evite.
Speaker 7: Kids' birthday parties? Yeah, or just any kind of event.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people remember it as like
Speaker 3: the og in online invitations, before Facebook events, before paperless posts,
Speaker 3: there was Evite. The company traces its roots back to
Speaker 3: a different era in the Internet. Wow, we're talking nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety eight, Okay, a while ago. Here's some contexts. Mark
Speaker 3: Zuckerberg was barely a teenager then. Okay, the best selling
Speaker 3: single of the year, My Heart Will Go On by
Speaker 3: Selene Dee.
Speaker 7: What with the Titanic?
Speaker 3: I think so, yeah, that would make sense, right.
Speaker 7: All right. It's changed hands though several times, right since then?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I owned it, so did the John Malone founded
Speaker 3: Liberty Media, the company that has a huge stake in
Speaker 3: F one and Live Nation Entertainment. Now it's privately owned,
Speaker 3: and we got with us. The president of Evite, Onto Foe,
Speaker 3: joins us here on Bloomberg Business Week, Onto, how are you?
Speaker 11: I'm good, how are you? I love that intro gave
Speaker 11: me a big smile hearing that.
Speaker 3: Well, I do think that Evite is like kind of
Speaker 3: the way people use kleenex, you know, or kleenex to
Speaker 3: refer to a tissue. It's like the way you would
Speaker 3: describe the concept of receiving an invitation that is not
Speaker 3: in the traditional way. Help us understand, though, how the
Speaker 3: business has changed in the last twenty six years. I'm
Speaker 3: a little confused. I know your folks told us that
Speaker 3: it recently celebrated its first profitable year, But I did
Speaker 3: find an article by the Chamber of Commerce that said,
Speaker 3: back a little after the pandemic in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 3: it had its first profitable year. Help us understand what's
Speaker 3: going on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you mentioned earlier that has changed hands a
Speaker 1: couple of times and it's now private. So since we'd
Speaker 1: gone private, we made dramatic changes to Evite and that's
Speaker 1: when I.
Speaker 11: Came on board. And to name a.
Speaker 1: Few of the dramatic changes we did, the first of
Speaker 1: which was we have a now all female product leg team,
Speaker 1: which gives us a competitive edge. As Carol mentioned, you
Speaker 1: know most of our you there's our mom throwing kids'
Speaker 1: birthday parties.
Speaker 12: So with a.
Speaker 1: Female product led team, we're on the ground and we
Speaker 1: know what's happening.
Speaker 11: We also rebuilt and.
Speaker 1: Modernize our core invitation product a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: and those two things combine is really what drove all
Speaker 1: the changes that are happening at evite. Our revenue growth
Speaker 1: on top of that profitability a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: kind of up profitability. But at this point you're talking
Speaker 1: about double digit markets in our profit line now. So
Speaker 1: that's what's really changed with ebit and we're so excited
Speaker 1: about what's happening.
Speaker 7: How did you do it?
Speaker 4: Because you guys have moved away from being an ad
Speaker 4: driven model, which is so much a part of the
Speaker 4: online universe. So what is the profitability model and what
Speaker 4: drives revenues?
Speaker 1: We're now thinking about. The number one thesis we have
Speaker 1: is how can we be helpful to host? How can
Speaker 1: we just help the users throw their party and throw
Speaker 1: it well? And so with that thesis, we are now
Speaker 1: thinking about our from a user experience standpoint. In the past,
Speaker 1: you know, the past business model, we're thinking about AD revenue,
Speaker 1: and when you think about AD revenue, it's a little
Speaker 1: bit contradictory to think about the user experience. And because
Speaker 1: you know, we're rethinking how our business model works, we
Speaker 1: are not prioritizing the host, and because we do that,
Speaker 1: the host is loving it. So now our number one
Speaker 1: driver of revenue is really from our premium experience. And
Speaker 1: the more we prioritize our hosts, the more we build
Speaker 1: features that she wants, the more profitable that we've become.
Speaker 11: And it's really working out for us.
Speaker 4: Tell me what a premium experience is when it comes
Speaker 4: to EVI, it's help me out here.
Speaker 13: Yeah, a premium experience is about if you want to
Speaker 13: throw a kids thematic birthday party, we are going to
Speaker 13: help you set the vibe for that thematic birthday party,
Speaker 13: say the Princess birthday party.
Speaker 11: We're going to give you.
Speaker 1: Top of the line trending invitations. It'll come with match
Speaker 1: background stamps and stickers to wow you're a guest about what.
Speaker 11: The theme is going to become.
Speaker 8: Okay.
Speaker 1: The second part of the Premium Experience is we're going
Speaker 1: to give you control and help you get more RSVPs.
Speaker 1: We all know when you invite guests to your party,
Speaker 1: a lot of them will look at your invitation but
Speaker 1: never respond. What we do with the Premium Experience is
Speaker 1: we've found out the optimal time to actually message your guests.
Speaker 11: We keep on nagging them for you.
Speaker 1: So you don't have to, and we have proven that
Speaker 1: with the Premium Experience, you actually get more guests because
Speaker 1: you're paying for this optimization and this customization of your
Speaker 1: entire event.
Speaker 3: To you, Carol, do you ever throw parties and hope
Speaker 3: nobody comes?
Speaker 7: Not for kids, No, not for kids. But I just
Speaker 7: think I have at it.
Speaker 3: I have a friend who threw I probably shouldn't say this,
Speaker 3: but I have a friend who threw a big summer
Speaker 3: party one year for his birthday, and it was like
Speaker 3: the best thing ever and it was so fun, and
Speaker 3: he's like, I'm gonna do this every year. He did
Speaker 3: it again last summer and it barely started raining. And
Speaker 3: what he did was he sent out a note to
Speaker 3: everybody and said party's canceled to everybody. Okay, but then
Speaker 3: he said day on the day off because it started raining.
Speaker 3: But then he sent a note to like ten people
Speaker 3: and was like, it's not actually canceled. I just didn't
Speaker 3: want to have a huge party. I just want you
Speaker 3: guys to show up.
Speaker 11: Oh, funny, awesome.
Speaker 7: He was a great party. Did you did you get
Speaker 7: the invitation to go back?
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 3: I got the invitation to come back. There was way
Speaker 3: too much food and booze because it was like supposed
Speaker 3: to be a party for a ton of people. Anyway,
Speaker 3: just in his side, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 7: Yeah, unbelievable.
Speaker 4: So remind us, So this change in your model remind
Speaker 4: us of get of the metrics. And you know we're
Speaker 4: Bloomberg and we say this all the time, but we
Speaker 4: do care. How has it moved the top line growth?
Speaker 11: It has moved our top line group dramatically.
Speaker 1: We are now more than fifty percent higher and revenue
Speaker 1: I could say we are the highest.
Speaker 4: We have from a year ago from a year ago.
Speaker 4: What's that fifty percent jump from a year ago.
Speaker 1: From two years ago, We're over one hundred percent. We're
Speaker 1: now at the highest level that we've ever been in
Speaker 1: our twenty six year history. And we are now double
Speaker 1: digit and profit profitability and we have never been that in.
Speaker 11: Our twenty six year history.
Speaker 1: And what's even more exciting I have to tell you, guys,
Speaker 1: is I think that we're just in the tip of
Speaker 1: the iceberg of where Evite can become. You guys have
Speaker 1: already mentioned that when you think of digital invitations, you
Speaker 1: think about Evite.
Speaker 11: We are known for that space. And what we're trying
Speaker 11: to do now is think beyond.
Speaker 1: Invitations of how we could actually be an ecosystem for
Speaker 1: all the planning needs.
Speaker 11: Evite is so big that.
Speaker 4: We have, you know, like the Knot, Like do you
Speaker 4: want to be like the Knot? In terms of planning
Speaker 4: events for people?
Speaker 11: We want to be bigger than the not.
Speaker 1: We can be where for any time you throw an event,
Speaker 1: we want to help you use all the tools that
Speaker 1: you normally would use elsewhere into our own ecosystem, from
Speaker 1: pre planning tools like if you want to question a
Speaker 1: group of guests that you want to invite, what's the
Speaker 1: best time to meet. We're going to build a tool
Speaker 1: to help you figure out how to do that. You
Speaker 1: could do your invitation with us. And what about during
Speaker 1: the party too, you want to message your guests, you
Speaker 1: want to post photos. We recently built out this ecosystem
Speaker 1: with our first new product that's not invitation exactly related.
Speaker 11: It's called Evite sign up sheets. Sign up sheets are
Speaker 11: for the events when you really need volunteers.
Speaker 1: It's the fastest on the market right now, and it's
Speaker 1: completely free.
Speaker 11: Okay, It's great for events like.
Speaker 1: If you have kids in elementary school, you need volunteers
Speaker 1: to sign up for classroom activity, right this is a
Speaker 1: great part. It's great for sports when you need volunteers
Speaker 1: to bring snacks for the kids. And you know what's
Speaker 1: the most exciting part about this product that our team
Speaker 1: is super jazzed about. It's great for potlucks. Everybody throws them,
Speaker 1: we all love them. You need volunteers to bring dishes.
Speaker 1: But what we're noticing now is with the gen Z
Speaker 1: generation before now rebrand. We want to rebrand potlucks for
Speaker 1: this gen Z TikTok generation because they're making it bematic.
Speaker 4: All right, it's not just no, I have to ask
Speaker 4: you before we get because we're running out of time.
Speaker 4: Got thirty seconds. In a world where we talk so
Speaker 4: much about AI and the importance of data, it sounds
Speaker 4: like you guys are getting a lot of information and
Speaker 4: very segmented about people who are interested in very specific things.
Speaker 4: Is the data play part of the revenue play? And
Speaker 4: forgive me because we just have about twenty five seconds.
Speaker 1: The data play is all about how do we use
Speaker 1: that data to help our host. So we have a
Speaker 1: lot of data about who'd you invite it in the past,
Speaker 1: whose viewture invitation? And who did it RSVP? Yet who
Speaker 1: else have you party with? That's how we think about
Speaker 1: our data is not to sell the information, but how
Speaker 1: do we become even more helpful to throw your naxt event?
Speaker 7: All right?
Speaker 4: Fun steps, All right, well, look forward to checking you
Speaker 4: with you again and the Poe she's president of EVI
Speaker 4: joining us from I Believe Manhattan Beach, California.
Speaker 3: Sounds great.
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Speaker 7: How about you let me drive?
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Speaker 4: All right, everybody, eighteen minutes left in today's trading session.
Speaker 7: We are getting ready.
Speaker 3: To us speedle Jae.
Speaker 7: We are talking to one of the screenwriters later on,
Speaker 7: so we're kind of u hyped up on that.
Speaker 4: Having said that, investors, you know, quite a bounce back
Speaker 4: after last week's selling. So let's see what Carol Schleife
Speaker 4: has to say.
Speaker 7: She is back with us.
Speaker 4: She's chief investment officer at Female Family Office, joining us
Speaker 4: from Minneapolis.
Speaker 7: Good to have you back with us.
Speaker 4: So, as we kidded with our Gina Martin Adams Carol earlier,
Speaker 4: you know, the market take it away last week and
Speaker 4: give it back this week. Having said that, we've got
Speaker 4: a big FED meeting, so I don't know, is there
Speaker 4: a clear strategy when it comes to the equity trade
Speaker 4: for you right now.
Speaker 14: I think the clear strategy is this is similar one
Speaker 14: that's been involved for the last couple of years, and
Speaker 14: that's built durable portfolios that can dodge and we even
Speaker 14: respond to any sort of markets that we get, because
Speaker 14: while we had last week being rocky, in this week
Speaker 14: being good, back in the beginning of August, we had
Speaker 14: Monday being bad and Tuesday being better. So building those
Speaker 14: portfolios though, that give us the opportunity to participate both
Speaker 14: in fixed income markets especially you've gotten paid nicely to
Speaker 14: be in those shorter term yields, but also to lean
Speaker 14: foot forward on growth because we do think that from
Speaker 14: an intermediate, longer term standpoint, a lot of investors are
Speaker 14: underestimating how beneficial for the economy rate cuts will be.
Speaker 3: Carol, I'm going to ask you the same question I've
Speaker 3: been asking folks all day, because we're seeing what could
Speaker 3: end up being, depending on what how it's in the
Speaker 3: next fifteen minutes or so, a really good week for stocks,
Speaker 3: just a huge departure from what we saw last week
Speaker 3: for the S and P five hundred, the worst week
Speaker 3: going back to that regional banking crisis of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3: What changed, What shifted?
Speaker 14: I'm not sure anything macro shifted as much as you know.
Speaker 14: There really is just an adjustment and getting used to
Speaker 14: people are focusing more on the FED meeting next week
Speaker 14: or past earning season. You had, you know, depending on
Speaker 14: the camp here, and you had nice meetings from Apple
Speaker 14: on Monday. You had a very eventful week actually, all
Speaker 14: things considered, and I think most importantly one of the
Speaker 14: things that is shifting is you're seeing a broadening in
Speaker 14: the markets and that's really helped. You're seeing it because
Speaker 14: it's not just the dower of the S and P leading,
Speaker 14: it's also and those in a concentration of the S
Speaker 14: and P. It's broadening out to the other four hundred
Speaker 14: and ninety three names, and especially in small cap as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Rustles up about four percent this week, right, So
Speaker 4: you does the FED potentially change all of this next week?
Speaker 11: I doubt the FED will change that.
Speaker 14: You know, the early betting what everyone's been looking at
Speaker 14: now is it twenty five basis points? Is at fifty
Speaker 14: basis points? We really don't think in the context to
Speaker 14: the next six to twelve months, it matters. You've got
Speaker 14: a lot of things markets still have to deal with.
Speaker 14: This week's been good, but we've also got a lot
Speaker 14: of volatility potential because it's this spooky season after all,
Speaker 14: not this pumpkin spice season, but spooky season.
Speaker 11: Where you've got.
Speaker 7: It is just tcophobia. Friday the thirteenth today.
Speaker 14: Yeah, exactly, but that's always been my lucky day. But
Speaker 14: the interesting thing is, though, is that you do have
Speaker 14: the potential for a lot of volatility. But we think
Speaker 14: once the Fed has the opportunity next week, and we
Speaker 14: would imagine they're going to be super careful in how
Speaker 14: they communicate that this is the start of a process.
Speaker 14: And that's what businesses are waiting for. If you go
Speaker 14: back and think through the messages that the individual FED
Speaker 14: governors are saying and that they've come out with in
Speaker 14: the Beige book, those companies are sitting on the sidelines
Speaker 14: waiting to get started with some of that M and
Speaker 14: A and build outs and infrastructure build They've been waiting
Speaker 14: for two years because last year they were afraid that
Speaker 14: we were going to have recession, right and when that
Speaker 14: didn't come, now they've been waiting for why do I
Speaker 14: I don't want to finance this week? If the fed's
Speaker 14: going to cut next week, but once a FED get
Speaker 14: some clarity on that, once we get through the elections,
Speaker 14: because theoretically two months from today, most of this stuff,
Speaker 14: most of what we don't know, should have some clarity
Speaker 14: in some direction, and the ve people to get on right.
Speaker 4: We know the direction now, maybe the question is a
Speaker 4: little bit of how much in terms of the FED
Speaker 4: cut speed this week. Hey, by the way, Taylor Swift,
Speaker 4: I think thirteen is her lucky number as it is.
Speaker 7: I believe it is. I think she does.
Speaker 14: That's right, because it doesn't that have to do with
Speaker 14: Travis Kelsey's jersey too.
Speaker 4: No, well, yeah, but I think thirteen has been her
Speaker 4: long number. It's been her favorite number for a long time.
Speaker 3: Here, I thought we were talking maybe picked him in
Speaker 3: the conference Jersey.
Speaker 11: But Friday afternoon, Friday afternoon.
Speaker 3: This is great love. I had no idea about this.
Speaker 4: She oh, she like really leases like she's very superstitious
Speaker 4: about a lot of stuff about when she releases things.
Speaker 7: You know, I my daughter isn't so into tailor anymore,
Speaker 7: but she used to be. And so I got a
Speaker 7: lot of stuff.
Speaker 4: Hey, some different events. Apple's been out with a lot
Speaker 4: of news and video this week. An earlier guest talking
Speaker 4: with our Abigail Doolittle talking about and video, like how
Speaker 4: maybe that really helped shift some of the sentiment and
Speaker 4: videos CEO Jensen Wong speaking at that Goldman Sachs conference
Speaker 4: this week and we saw and video.
Speaker 7: It's really rallied.
Speaker 4: I think something like fifteen percent this week. But talking
Speaker 4: about customers, you know, it's tough dealing with them because
Speaker 4: there's so much demand. They want more of their products
Speaker 4: and more of their chips.
Speaker 7: I don't know, is there something in the tech narrative
Speaker 7: that's interesting for you.
Speaker 14: I think the interesting thing in the tech narrative is,
Speaker 14: unlike the first when the Internet first launched in ninety
Speaker 14: five to two thousand, where you had a lot of
Speaker 14: companies that were creating a lot of headlines that didn't
Speaker 14: have revenues and earnings, a lot of the companies that
Speaker 14: are dealing with this now not only have revenues and earnings.
Speaker 14: Spending is big. It needs to be big. We you know,
Speaker 14: there's been a lot of articles, especially in the last
Speaker 14: week or two, talking about how we have to rethink
Speaker 14: the whole tech pipeline in terms of where the processing
Speaker 14: gets done.
Speaker 12: How we create the juice for that processing, and it's
Speaker 12: one of the reasons why, you know, the introduction on Monday.
Speaker 12: A lot of the AI processing has to happen on
Speaker 12: the computer on the phone, you know.
Speaker 14: So there's a lot, a lot of reasons to be optimistic,
Speaker 14: not just about the buildout, but also about the use
Speaker 14: cases because many of these companies have been tabbling in
Speaker 14: it behind the scenes for over a decade and building
Speaker 14: those use cases out, and you're starting to see leverage
Speaker 14: in some of the most basic mundane tasks where AI
Speaker 14: go walks along as an assistant, doesn't necessarily take our
Speaker 14: jobs away, but makes it so that we can go
Speaker 14: to the next level and thought process in these day apps.
Speaker 3: Carrol's I wanted to tell you both that our amazing
Speaker 3: team has been doing some research about the number thirteen
Speaker 3: and Taylor Swift, and I got some notes from our
Speaker 3: own Elizabeth Cedron, who said that who sent me a
Speaker 3: story that has Taylor Swift telling MTV years ago. She
Speaker 3: was born on the thirteenth. She turned thirteenth on Friday
Speaker 3: the thirteenth. Her first album went golden thirteen weeks. Her
Speaker 3: first number one song had a thirteen second intro. Every
Speaker 3: time I've won an award, I've been seated in either
Speaker 3: the thirteenth seat, the thirteenth row, the thirteenth section, or
Speaker 3: row M, which is the thirteenth letter.
Speaker 4: You guys, I'm a little upset with you swifties. Know
Speaker 4: this eighty nine is very importantly.
Speaker 7: I didn't know this.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: She is very you know, she's got numbers are a
Speaker 4: big thing in her world, like when she releases things
Speaker 4: and so on and so forth.
Speaker 14: The morning. Does that mean we're teeing up a great
Speaker 14: rest of the year here September Friday, the thirteenth.
Speaker 7: I don't know, you tell me, but.
Speaker 11: We do hope.
Speaker 7: So all right, well, certainly the bulls do.
Speaker 4: The bears might think a little bit differently, but you know,
Speaker 4: we'll leave them for now.
Speaker 7: Have a great weekend.
Speaker 4: Caroshlife Chief Investment Officer would be my family office, joining
Speaker 4: us from Minneapolis.
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