1 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor production of IHEARTRADEO. I'm any 2 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: Res and. 3 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,159 Speaker 2: I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode for 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 2: you about Djon Mustard. 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: Yes, and welcome back, Lauren. 6 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, thank you, and thank you so much 7 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 2: for doing that. That's solo, that solo episode. I really 8 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 2: appreciate it. And uh, yeah, I'm coming to you from 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 2: my house. I bought a house, like I bought a 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 2: house like I this is really weird, Like I like 11 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: someone let me buy a house, and then I bought 12 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 2: it and now I'm living in it. I'm very confused 13 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 2: about this entire process. 14 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: That's fair. 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 2: But yeah, it's a little bit of a fixer upper. 16 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: And there's many projects that we're doing right now. And 17 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 2: uh and so right now, the studio that I'm in 18 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 2: is basically a blanket fort, but a very nice blanket fort. 19 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: I can attest it is a very nice blanket for it. 20 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, I can't wait to see it in person. Oh, 21 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: biting myself. 22 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, no, you are super invited. I almost 23 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: have a floor in every room. 24 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: Now, Okay, I like the sound of that. But yes, 25 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: this is our first time coming from Laurence New Studio 26 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: y episode. 27 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's a welcome everyone into my blanket fort Yes. 28 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: Yes. Was there any particular reason you chose Dijon mustard. 29 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 2: It's been on my mind for a while because A 30 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: it's delicious, it's something that I usually have on hand, 31 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 2: and B yeah, it's just got a fun story to 32 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: it and so so, yeah, I wanted, I wanted to 33 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: wanted to talk about it. I usually want to talk 34 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: about mustard. 35 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: It is true. It's one of the those condiments speaking 36 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: of moving where I'm like, this condiment has been with 37 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: me from here here here. Yes, Yes, I haven't done 38 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: this in a while, and I've realized recently I've been 39 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: slacking because there's a lot of food references in Seinfeld. 40 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 2: Oh sure, Oh yeah, No. We haven't talked about Seinfeld 41 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 2: in a long time, have we? No? 42 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: And here I am so the first thing I think 43 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: of with Dijon mustard, And it actually makes sense now 44 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: that I've done the research. But there's an episode of 45 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: Seinfeld where Kramer, who is sort of the kind of 46 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: like mouture of a neighbor who always comes into Jerry's 47 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: apartment and gets the food. Jerry's getting frustrated by this, 48 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: and Kramer senses it. So Kramer's making this huge turkey sandwich, okay, 49 00:02:53,280 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: like ginormous turkey sandwich with Jerry's food, and he opens 50 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: the refrigerator and he's like, you don't have any mustard, 51 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: and Jerry's like, yeah, I do. It's right there and 52 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: it's the American yellow mustard and Cramer's like, no, that's 53 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: not mustard. D Jon Jerry de Jon, and he like 54 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: goes on this whole spiel about how he can't without Dijon, 55 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: this is not a sandwich. And so he takes a 56 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: bite of this massive turkey sandwich that he's made and 57 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: it was like no, no, no, no no. Without Djon, 58 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: I'm out. And Jerry gets really frustrated because he's like, 59 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: you took a bite out of this massive sandwich of 60 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: turkey and you're not gonna eat it, And hence the 61 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: the tab. They agreed to start a tab and hilarity ensues. 62 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: But I think that's a kid that was the first 63 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: I heard of d Jon. 64 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 2: Oh wow, uh okay, yeah, there's oh, there's a possibility 65 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: that those grape pupon commercials happened before I was particularly 66 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 2: aware of Jon mustard. For sure, by the time my 67 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: family was in South Florida. My dad would get stone 68 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: crab once a year and Dijon mustard was always like 69 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 2: a side dip sauce for that. But but it was 70 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 2: probably through grape poop pod, yeah, which we are going 71 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: to talk about. 72 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: I've forgotten about those commercials until I was reading about 73 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: them and I was like, oh, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, 74 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: uh huh. And then I mentioned, I know it's been 75 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: kind of a break, but I mentioned in our Kiwi 76 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: episode that there was a link between Kiwi and Djon 77 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: Mustard through my time studying abroad in Europe and with Kiwi, 78 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: my host mom, we would scoop it out and that 79 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: was dessert. But she used Djon mustard all the time 80 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: for like, favorite thing she would do is she would 81 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: boil potatoes. Okay, just put a ton of Djon mustard 82 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: into what I would kind of from my American pov. 83 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: I would see that as sort of a mashed potato situation, 84 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: because my mom does a thick mashed potatoes. Okay, so 85 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: it wasn't like a smooth, creamy It's more like kind 86 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: of mushed potato cubes. I'm not describing it in a 87 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: very appetizing it. 88 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 2: Served hot or cold. 89 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: Hers was served cold my host mom, Yes, my mom hot, 90 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: but yeah, she would serve it cold. And it was delicious, 91 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: like it was just like a really tart, refreshing kind 92 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: of spicy savory thing. 93 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 94 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was a very simple obviously, she just 95 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: kind of boiled these potatoes, maybe added a couple of 96 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: seasons and then a bunch of tshow mustard. But it 97 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: I hadn't had something like that before, and I was like, 98 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: why have I not had some right before? 99 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 2: Right like that kind of yeah, the first time that 100 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: you have like a totally different take on a potato 101 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 2: salad and you're just like, what is this? And how 102 00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: can I eat the. 103 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: Most of it? And I did eat a lot of it? 104 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: Yes, I did. 105 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: Well. You can see the episode we did. 106 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: On Mustard in general. Yeah, general Mustard episode, sure, mm hmm. 107 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 2: But that being said, yes, other Mustard's different episodes absolutely, yep. Yeah, 108 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 2: we've done a few other condiments, and I guess we've 109 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 2: talked about other Brassica kind of species of plants before. 110 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 2: So yeah, but it's a whole world out there, it is, 111 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: and there will be more, oh yeah, in the future, 112 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: of course. 113 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: As we continue. But I suppose this brings us to 114 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: our question, djon mustard, what is it? Well? 115 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 2: Djon mustard is a type of condiment typically made with 116 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: a holed brown and or black mustard seeds, plus water, salt, 117 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 2: and some kind of wine rape product like white wine 118 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 2: or wine vinegar, all blended into a smooth, creamy, light yellow, 119 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 2: spoonable paste that has a has a sharp pungent bite, 120 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 2: a little bit of bitterness, and a really like tart 121 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: acidic kick. Different varieties might keep those those seedholes in 122 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 2: for like a whole grain mustard vibe, or might add 123 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 2: other flavorings like herbs or spices, or even like fruit 124 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: or fruit juice. It's used straight as a table condiment 125 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 2: or on sandwiches or alongside meats or cheeses, and also 126 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 2: often as an ingredient in dressings and sauces and all 127 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: kinds of savory dishes. It's just like really good at 128 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 2: playing up other flavors without fading into the background. It's 129 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: like a It's like yellow mustard's fancy cousin that has 130 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: impeccable social skills and a very sharp tongue. It's like 131 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: the Maggie Smith of condiments. Yes, okay. So mustard, generally speaking, 132 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 2: is a preparation of the seeds of sort of weedy 133 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 2: plants in the Braska genus that grow these long, skinny 134 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 2: pods with a number of tiny seeds inside. These plants 135 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: are cousins of things like arugula and radish and kale, 136 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: and all of these plants create compounds that humans and 137 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 2: other mammals experience as pungent that that is, spicy hot 138 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 2: on our tongues and sometimes in our mouths and noses 139 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 2: and other mucous membranes. Those compounds evolved to discourage animals 140 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 2: and even microbes from eating these plants, but we humans 141 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: decided that we like that suckers. 142 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: I did stumble across a really funny article recently where 143 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: it was parents trying to understand why their kids like 144 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: spicy things makes them miserable. 145 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 2: I was like, sorry, humans are masochistic, that's what we're 146 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 2: up to. 147 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: Look, it was funny. It was like a deer abby 148 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: or something like, please explain this to me, And I'm like, well, 149 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: I could if you would like, but it doesn't really 150 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: make sense. 151 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just minor danger. We're like, oh, this is 152 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 2: safe danger. I'm going to do that as much as 153 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 2: I can. Yeah, it's like horror movies for your mouth. 154 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. Okay, So in mustard plants in particular, those 155 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 2: compounds are concentrated in the seeds as a specific way 156 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 2: of discouraging animals like mammals, from chewing the seeds up 157 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: like just sitting there minding their own business. The seeds 158 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 2: do not actually contain any of those spicy compounds. The 159 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 2: compounds are only formed when the seeds are crushed and 160 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 2: mixed with water, and that happens through the release and 161 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 2: activation of enzymes that the seeds contain. And evolutionarily, that 162 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: makes perfect sense because like animals, mouths contain saliva, which 163 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 2: contains water. So when you chew up the seeds, the 164 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: plant is saying stop, hay hey, stop that, Whereas if 165 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 2: you were to just swallow them whole, that would be fine. 166 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: That's preferable for the plant because then you might pass 167 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 2: the seeds whole and unharmed, right through your digestive system 168 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 2: and thus spread the seeds for the plant. Is why 169 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 2: birds don't taste spicy. But anyway, okay, that burn, that 170 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 2: that chemical burn only lasts as long as the enzymes 171 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 2: are actively doing their thing, and they'll start wearing out 172 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 2: after about fifteen minutes. But clearly the seeds in your 173 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 2: jar of prepared mustard have been ground up for significantly 174 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 2: longer than fifteen minutes. So how does that happen? How 175 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: do we get prepared mustard from seeds that have been 176 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 2: crushed weeks or months ago that's still spicy. Well, if 177 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 2: you introduce an acid to the mix, like say wine 178 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 2: or vinegar, it will preserve those spicy compounds and inhibit 179 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 2: further spiciness from developing. It'll just kind of freeze it 180 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: at that one moment in enzymatic time. Yeah, so hence 181 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 2: vinegar in mustard preparations. Brown and black mustard seeds are 182 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 2: different species than white mustard seeds. Those darker ones do 183 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: have a bit more of a kick. American yellow mustards 184 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 2: are made from the white mustard seeds. They don't hit 185 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 2: you in the mucous membranes the way the black and 186 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 2: brown ones do. The colors black and white and brown 187 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 2: all refer to the whole color on the seeds. The 188 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 2: insides are all sort of yellowish and yeah, yep, you 189 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 2: can use Dijon mustard. However, you want to use a condiment. 190 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 2: I will say that if you're applying it to a 191 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 2: warm day, adding it towards the end will help preserve 192 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 2: that bite. Yeah, and kind of side note, it is 193 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: a really great ingredient in vinegarette dressings because first of all, 194 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 2: it's tasty, but second of all, mustard seeds contain stuff 195 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 2: called lessethins, which are these molecules that occur in lots 196 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: of plants and animals that have different molecular parts, some 197 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 2: of which will glom onto water and some of which 198 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 2: will glom onto fats. And this is useful because normally 199 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: water and fats repel each other, right like, it's hard 200 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 2: to get them to mix, but less ethins help them 201 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 2: play nice. So when you add a little bit of 202 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 2: dijon mustard to your oil and vinegar for your salad dressing, 203 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 2: it'll help them emulsify into a cohesive dressing, like the 204 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 2: oil won't separate itself back out. You can technically use 205 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 2: any mustard for this, but dijon is nice because it's 206 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 2: puaid smooth and already has those good like winy flavor 207 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 2: notes to it. Yeah. Yeah, and yep, the traditional type 208 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 2: of dijon mustard really should only have four ingredients like 209 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 2: mustard seeds, water, vinegar or wine and salt. But interestingly 210 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 2: to me, in Dijon, France, where the condiment is basically from, 211 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 2: you can get all kinds of fun varieties flavored with 212 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 2: things like basil or black currant, or a spice blend 213 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 2: that's reminiscent of local gingerbread, like a local spice cake. Right. 214 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: I saw you could go on like Dijon mustard tasting tours. 215 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, there are a bunch of like traditional producers 216 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 2: who still have tasting rooms in Djon, and I want 217 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 2: to go to all of those. 218 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 1: That sounds so good. Well, what about the. 219 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 2: Nutrition by itself? Mustard adds a really big flavor bang 220 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 2: for a really low chloric buck. I would say that 221 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 2: most of the time you're not consuming enough to truly 222 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 2: make a nutritional difference. 223 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: But I don't know what you get up to. This 224 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: is true. We can't We can't know for sure. We 225 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: do have some numbers for you, we do. As of 226 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:16,479 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, Amora Miles was France's largest Dijon. 227 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 2: Producer, and French mustard manufacturers use some thirty five thousand 228 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 2: metric tons of mustard seeds every year. The French apparently 229 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 2: consume the most mustard in all of Europe, like about 230 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: a kilo of mustard every year per person. That's a 231 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 2: little bit over two pounds. And most of that is 232 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 2: Dijon style. Wow, yep, yep. I'm like, I feel like 233 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 2: that beats me by a long shot, which is like 234 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 2: also impressive. I'm like, well, way to go, France. Heck. Yeah. 235 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: There is a International Gastronomy Festival in Dijon every year. 236 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: It runs from like October thirty first through November eleventh. 237 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 2: It's not necessarily mustard based, but I just thought this 238 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 2: was fascinating. Yeah, they have some like one hundred and 239 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 2: fifty to two hundred thousand people that attend. It just 240 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 2: celebrated its one hundredth anniversary in twenty twenty one. If 241 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: you have been to this, let us know, please oh please. Also, yeah, 242 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: there is only one mustard maker still producing in Dijon 243 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 2: as of January twenty twenty three. We're going to get 244 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 2: into that in the history. 245 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it is quite quite a history. 246 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, it is, and we are going to 247 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 2: get into it as soon as we get back from 248 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 2: a quick break. For word from our sponsors and we're back. 249 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 2: Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you. 250 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: So yes, go see our more generalized mustard episode for more. 251 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: This does share a lot of history, similar histories with 252 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: other condiments too, I would say, sure. Yeah, So mustard 253 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: in this condiment sense does have ancient roots. Records indicate 254 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: that it was used medicinally and culinarily in China, in 255 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: Egypt and parts of the Middle East by three thousand BCE. 256 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: And yeah, I believe we've talked about this several times 257 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: with the ancient Romans turned this spice, these seeds into 258 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: a paste, either by grinding them or soaking the seeds 259 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: in vinegar, and then served it with all kinds of things, 260 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: and it was a very kind of fancy thing. Yes, 261 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: the seeds were probably introduced to France, where a lot 262 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: of this history takes place for Dijon mustard, by the 263 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: ancient Romans, who notably probably introduced grapevines for wine too 264 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: in that area. So monks and France were experimenting with 265 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: making mustard paste from the ninth to tenth century CE, 266 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: and one of the first written recipes out of France 267 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: for this mustard traces back to the thirteenth century. Some 268 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: monasteries made a name for themselves through mustard production, which 269 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: I love. Yes, when it comes to Dijon specifically, most 270 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: historians do agree that it originated in Burgundy. Dijon is 271 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: the capital of that region, in part due to the 272 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: wine industry there, Mustard seeds were frequently grown as a 273 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: complementary crop for the grapevines. They helped impart necessary nutrients. 274 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,719 Speaker 1: They're just like a helpful crop to grow alongside it. 275 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, They're like a kind of good like groundcover 276 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 2: underneath grape vines, just to just to keep things that 277 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 2: you wouldn't want from growing there. And they make a. 278 00:17:53,280 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 1: Useful product they do, yes, because producers were like, okay, 279 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: this helps with the wine, but now I also have 280 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: this other product. What can I do with that? So 281 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: they would mix mustard seeds with must from the wine, 282 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: which we've talked about in our wine episodes, to make 283 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: a type of mustard close to what we know as 284 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: Dijon today. Not quite but close. 285 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, must being right like juice from wine grapes basically. 286 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much. The Dukes of Burgundy, who were sponsors 287 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: of mustard, allegedly hosted a feast in thirteen thirty six 288 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: that boasted seventy gallons of this type of mustard. They 289 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: were real big fans. They helped put it on the map. 290 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: They also helped solidify Burgundy's reputation as a place for 291 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: quality mustards, which is great, as well as the idea 292 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: that mustard was prestigious and luxurious. King Philip the sixth 293 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: was allegedly a big fan too, So yeah, it was like, oh. 294 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 2: It's a very posh thing. Yeah, these posh people like 295 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 2: this posh thing, and yeah you should you should want 296 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 2: it too. 297 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: Yes, And speaking of Oh, I don't know if this 298 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: is true, but I found it in a couple of places. 299 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,959 Speaker 1: There's a story that around this time, one of the popes, 300 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: because I guess they were two popes at this time. 301 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: Oh, I would have to look into that. That would be 302 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 2: a that's a separate show. 303 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: I literally had to do an episode on stuff one 304 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: ever told you where I was just like, can women 305 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: be popes? And the answer is no, And so it 306 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: was a very short episode. So I don't know, is 307 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. 308 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know very little about popes. 309 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: Well, listeners please write in, but this pop pope, John 310 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: the twenty second of Avignon was a fan of this mustard, 311 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: and as the story goes, he career the position of 312 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: Grand Mutadier du pop or grand mustard maker to the Pope, 313 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: and he appointed his nephew because apparently his nephew was like, 314 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: I don't know, lazy, he didn't do much. It was like, 315 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: here's your position. 316 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 2: It's like you need a job, get a job. Here's 317 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 2: a job. 318 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: Okay, yes, and again, listeners please write in. Apparently this 319 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: gave rise to an idiom in France. He thinks himself 320 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: the head mustard maker to the Pope, basically meaning a 321 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: person who thinks too much of himself, which I please. 322 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 2: That's beautiful. If anyone has ever heard or said this 323 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 2: out in the wild, then I that's wonderful. 324 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: We need to know, we need to know. Moving on, 325 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: in the sixteenth century, mustard makers in the region came 326 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: together to form guilds. In these gills, they made not 327 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: only the spreadable condiment, but also mustard powder and several 328 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: varieties of mustard that many of us would be less 329 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: familiar with to this day. Like a lot of them 330 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: had like almonds in them and things like that. 331 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 2: Okay. 332 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: Producers in Burgundy faced stiff competition from makers based in 333 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: Paris in the surrounding areas of Paris, so it was 334 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: competitive the mustard game. Still, there were several other adjustments 335 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: that needed to be made over the next five centuries 336 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: before Dijon as we know it was born. Over that time, 337 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: people all over France were tinkering with different types of mustard, 338 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: including commonly replacing the wine aspect the wine must with vinegar, water, 339 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 1: and salt or frequent additions as well. However, as popular 340 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: lore goes, a mann in Dijon named Jean Nagion replaced 341 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: the vinegar with er jew, another product of wine in 342 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty six, which is correct me if I'm wrong more, 343 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: and it's white wine. It's kind of like must it's 344 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 1: like white wine specific. 345 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 2: I believe it's it's white wine specifically, and it's the 346 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 2: juice of slightly under ripe grapes. 347 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yes, And the resulting product had a really 348 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: specific and unique heat that set it apart from other mustards. 349 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: Some say he wasn't the first to do this. I'm 350 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: likely to agree with him, but he was. Really he 351 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: was just really vocal and adamant that this was the 352 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: way to go when making this product. 353 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 2: Yeah sure, m m mm. 354 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 1: Hmm. And then Gray Poupon, which many of us know, 355 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: was founded about a decade later by Maurice Gray and 356 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: Auguste Poupon, and it was equipped with a steam powered 357 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: machinery that allowed them to make Dijon mustard commercially. And 358 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: this really allowed for Burgundy to dominate in the manufacture 359 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 1: of mustards. Beginning in the nineteenth century, production exploded and 360 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: other mustard factories opened. Many name brands we still know 361 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 1: today opened around this time, some of them reaching fifty 362 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: kilograms per day about one hundred and ten pounds per day. 363 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: Massive patches of land were set aside for the cultivation 364 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: of the seeds all the way until they were burned 365 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: down in World War Two. Yes, and interestingly, a part 366 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: of the success of the mustard in this area was 367 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: because local coal producers figured out that the seeds grew 368 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: really well when charcoal ashes were used as fertilizer. So, 369 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: kind of going back to the same thing with the wine, 370 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: I find this really fascinating. They realized they could make 371 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: more money yees selling these seeds to mustard makers after 372 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: they fertilized them. Like, it's just the different aspects of 373 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: how it gets made really interesting. But that means that 374 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: when demand for coal started to decline in the mid 375 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds, the number of mustard seeds grown in Burgundy 376 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:15,959 Speaker 1: went down as well. So manufacturers increasingly turned to brown 377 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: seeds grown in Canada for these mustards, or they started 378 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: growing more profitable crops in that area. Almost all French 379 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: mustard production used seeds from Canada by the nineteen eighties, 380 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: and more in that in a second. But through all 381 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: of this history, these ups and downs, it wasn't long 382 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: before Dijon was a go to in France, and then 383 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: after that it's bred across the globe. Burgundy grown seeds 384 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: did see a boost in the nineteen nineties, in part 385 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: because of a desire to make Dijon a local product again. 386 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: But this is also the decade that Gray Pupon launched 387 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: a really aggressive and effective marketing campaign in the US 388 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: that established it as a fancy product that people who 389 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: drove rolls royces kept in their glove boxes for fancy emergencies. 390 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 2: Love a fancy emergency. 391 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,199 Speaker 1: Yes, which I was like, what, And then when I 392 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: watched that commercial, I was like, oh, yeah, I've I 393 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: remember this, and I've also kind of absorbed it, like 394 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: osmosis or something. 395 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Now as a child, I was like, yeah, sure, 396 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 2: the fanciest of people really need this mustard, Okay, yeah, yeah, No, 397 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 2: I didn't question it as like a seven year old, 398 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 2: I was. 399 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: Like absolutely, of course. And that's when the Seinfeld episode 400 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: was coming out, So that's it makes sense. And in 401 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: two thousand Moura Mile was purchased by Unilever and they 402 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 1: closed their factory in Dijon in two thousand and nine, 403 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: and that was part of the big like, oh, production 404 00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 1: is moving away from Djon of Dijon mustard, which speaking 405 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: of that same year, mustard producers in the region established 406 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 1: an Indication Geographicue protege IGP, which is like an AOP 407 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: but less strict. That's what we talked about when we 408 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: talk about things like Champagne Jesus. Yeah, yes, but it 409 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: was for Mutard de Borgun requiring Burgundy seeds and Burgundy wine. 410 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: There's a couple other rules, but that's like the basic. 411 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's basically Dijon mustard that is produced 412 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 2: in the Burgundy region, easing seeds from Burgundy and wine 413 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 2: from Burgundy. And I get the idea that that local 414 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 2: producers just sort of gave up on trying to protect 415 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 2: the name Dijon mustard, Like, I think that that's what 416 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 2: they wanted to do. But they were like, it's that 417 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 2: that that mustard cat is out of the bag. It is, 418 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 2: it is gone, it is living its life free around 419 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 2: the world. I cannot help I cannot help it. But 420 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 2: they still wanted to get recognition for this traditional product, 421 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 2: and this was sort of the workaround getting a yeah, 422 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 2: Burgundy mustard as a IGP. Right around the same time, 423 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 2: in two thousand and eight, France began banning the use 424 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 2: of a lot of pesticides in agriculture, and then later 425 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 2: in most public spaces and then later in most private 426 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 2: spaces as well. And these laws and their implementation have 427 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 2: been controversial among both farmers and environmentalists. Like it's somehow 428 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 2: managed to make everybody mad in different ways, and that 429 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 2: going into that would require a deeper look than I 430 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 2: have time for today. But this will become important again 431 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 2: in just a. 432 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: Minute, a single minute, yes, okay. So in twenty twenty two, 433 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: French mustard shortages impacted Dijon mustard producers and consumers. It 434 00:27:58,320 --> 00:27:59,360 Speaker 1: made a lot of headlines. 435 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, seeds of change, yeah, a lot of Like 436 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 2: this is how much it costs to get mustard now. 437 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: And this shortage was the culmination of several factors many 438 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 1: producers typically used, as I mentioned a particular brown mustard 439 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: seed grown in Canada at this time. Eighty five percent 440 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: of French mustard producers used this variety, but a severe 441 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: drought there massively slashed the crop yield, tripling the price 442 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: of what was grown. At the same time, Russia's invasion 443 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: of Ukraine made it harder to get white mustard seeds 444 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: typically used for American style yellow mustards, which in turn 445 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: led to more people seeking out brown mustard seeds. 446 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so there was less of it and suddenly 447 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 2: everyone was looking for it. Russia's invasion of Ukraine also 448 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 2: really mucked up supply chains and prices for things like 449 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 2: fertilizers and certain packaging materials like glass metal for lid's, cardboard, 450 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 2: stuff like that. 451 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: And as the drought might indicate, time a change is 452 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: not helping either. 453 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that Canadian drought is definitely related to that. 454 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 2: Like temperatures in West Canada spiked to a record breaking 455 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty one degrees fahrenheit that summer, that's 456 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 2: like forty nine point six celsius. But just for another example, 457 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 2: a late frost in Burgundy in Burgundy's wine country cut 458 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 2: into wine production there in twenty twenty, thereby nearly doubling 459 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 2: the price of white wines from that region. 460 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: And all of this kick started a whole conversation about 461 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: labels of origin and where dijon is made because everyone 462 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: was like, oh, surely it's made in France, and then no, 463 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: actually it's Canada, as a lot of the seeds come 464 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: from Canada, and then people were asking questions about that, 465 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: like yeah, how did that happen? 466 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 2: Right right? Which is good I think overall to be 467 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,959 Speaker 2: inquisitive task sure, and yeah, like the shortage touched global 468 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 2: markets a little bit, but definitely in France, like there 469 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 2: was panic, there were empty shelves, there were like one 470 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 2: per customer limits. When stock did come back in, there 471 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 2: was this whole rash of suggestions on social media for 472 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 2: using alternatives like horse bradish or with sabby, whole thing, 473 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 2: whole thing. If you have I don't want to dig 474 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 2: up trauma, but if you have a little bit of 475 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,479 Speaker 2: PTSD from this and you want to talk to us 476 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 2: about it, please write in and yeah, so like okay, 477 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 2: going back to the pesticide thing, one of the issues 478 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 2: with growing mustard locally and Burgundy is that, yes, climate 479 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: change is mucking things up, and one of the results 480 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 2: has been these infestations of insects which are difficult to 481 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 2: control without those banned pesticides. Like banning pesticides generally good. However, 482 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 2: right like, when you suddenly have these like unheard of 483 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 2: and infestations and you can't use the pesticides, then it's 484 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 2: your hands are tied, you know. Just from twenty seventeen 485 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 2: to twenty twenty one, production of mustard seeds in Burgundy 486 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 2: fell from twelve thousand tons to just four thousand tons, 487 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 2: just dove. The shortage though, has silver lining, you know, 488 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 2: like like it's kickstarted these conversations and it has led 489 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 2: to a lot of work to encourage local agricultural operations. 490 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 2: So like, like mustard production companies are offering farmers about 491 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 2: double the normal price for mustard seeds this year twenty 492 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 2: twenty three. The number of producers of mustard seeds went 493 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: from one hundred and sixty to over five hundred last year. 494 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, and the Hope I couldn't find 495 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 2: updated numbers from this year, but as of last year, 496 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 2: the hope was like by the end of twenty twenty three, 497 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 2: Burgundy farmers would be producing some forty percent of the 498 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 2: seeds that mustard makers need, rather than like fifteen percent 499 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 2: or less. So wow. Yeah. That The industry is also 500 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 2: calling on the European Commission to Develop to help them 501 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 2: develop a research program to explore like hardier varietals of 502 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 2: mustard and ways to farm more successfully without those pesticides. 503 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 2: So I'm really looking forward to seeing how that develops 504 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 2: out in the future. 505 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. I I have such like I want 506 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: a sandwich with jon on it, but I also want 507 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: the potatoes that my host will right, I've got like 508 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: all of these. It goes all over, but. 509 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 2: I think it'll be good. 510 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've these memories come back. 511 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I need to make I need to make 512 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 2: those potatoes. Kind of immediately. I suspect I have everything 513 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 2: I need to make them, because I do have a 514 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 2: jar of Dijon mustard in my fridge right now. It 515 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 2: was everything I could do to not just like squirt 516 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 2: it into my face before I came in here. 517 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: I sometimes am like I just need a scoop of 518 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: DJA mustard. 519 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no problem with that, absolutely, no problem with it. Now. 520 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: I'm glad you agree. 521 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't sure what was going to do to 522 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 2: my vocal quality. 523 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: That's fair, that's a consideration we have to take into 524 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: account well, listeners. As always, if you have any recipes 525 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: for us, oh my goodness for djon mustard, please let 526 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: us know. Yes, but that's what we have to say 527 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: about it for now. 528 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 2: It is it is. We do already have some listener 529 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 2: mail for you, though, and we are going to get 530 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 2: into that as soon as we get back from one 531 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 2: more quick break for a word from our sponsors. 532 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and 533 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: we're back with listen. 534 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 2: Man. 535 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: Fancy. 536 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 2: We're not sure that's what that was. 537 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely, definitely that is definitely what it was. 538 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 2: It listens. 539 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,959 Speaker 1: If you hadn't seen these nineteen nineties gray poopon commercials, 540 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, they've got mesa. Have you any gray poop. 541 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 2: Kind of yeah? Yeah, please go immediately. 542 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: Oh my oh dear, well our crote so yes, Halluomi 543 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: fries are great. I've had them once and hoped to 544 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: find them again. The restaurants served them with horse radish 545 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: iola for dipping. It was wonderful. Hallumia is just a 546 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: great cheese, so versatile and flavorful. Fudge is definitely an 547 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: interesting confection. It is definitely rich. I think it is 548 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,240 Speaker 1: another one of those things that is really difficult to find. Well, 549 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 1: most fudge is good, but not something you go out 550 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: of the way for. Great fudge is worth it. My 551 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: personal favorite is from River Street Sweets in Savannah. I 552 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: always buy a nice piece of their peanut butter fudge. 553 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: Speaking of peanut butter fudge, would that count as our protein? Lord, 554 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: I've never had squab, but I've always wanted to try. 555 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: Haven't seen it on a menu, but I keep my 556 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: eyes open for this feast. I'm definitely not a shift 557 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: I'd love to help with cooking it. I love trying 558 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 1: different sorts of recipes and such. Sometimes it works, sometimes 559 00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: not so much, but that is part of the fun. 560 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: The letter mentioning sustainability was excellent. I'm really at the 561 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: point where so much as being ships and we are 562 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: not thinking of the effects. I'd rather wait for more 563 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: local fresh stuff than have it shipped across the globe, 564 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,919 Speaker 1: and I think that more attention needs to be paid 565 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: to local food needs as well, so many laws make 566 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: it so difficult to help people in need. 567 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, Yeah, we got to have some really 568 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,359 Speaker 2: good conversations about that with some of the folks we 569 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 2: were interviewing out in New Orleans. But it's of course 570 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 2: an ongoing and very deep issue. 571 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,720 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And we were kind of joking, not joking 572 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: off mic, but we always end these episodes with climate 573 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 1: change is ruining stuff, But I still want this food. 574 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: What is the balance of that? So that it's very 575 00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,479 Speaker 1: important to think about, and I do think more people 576 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:05,839 Speaker 1: are getting cognizant of at least I should ask these questions, right, right, 577 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: But you know, as we said, it's also who has 578 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: time to ask those questions and the money to go 579 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: out of their way maybe to get more local foods, 580 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 1: which can be more expensive. So it's yeah, it's a 581 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,439 Speaker 1: balance that we have to keep in mind. Oh yeah, 582 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:22,919 Speaker 1: these things. 583 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:28,439 Speaker 2: Yeah absolutely, there's unfortunately no one good solution. Nope, Nope, 584 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 2: it's all complicated. We're all just out here doing what 585 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 2: we can. True. Yeah, but I agree with yes, agreed 586 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 2: about fudge. I don't agree that it's your protein. I'm sorry, but. 587 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: Street streets and Savannah I've been. They smell. It's one 588 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 1: of those things where I'm like the siren of the 589 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: fudge that I know I only will want one bite of, 590 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,280 Speaker 1: but I want it. 591 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yes, still dying about Yeah, I'm still dying about 592 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 2: all of these hallumin descriptions. Y'all are killing me in 593 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 2: a wonderful way. Thank you, We're here for you. Lauren 594 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 2: Vivian wrote, listening to the squab episode, I immediately thought 595 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 2: of my grandma. There was one summer when I was 596 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 2: in elementary school and visiting her in Sichuan, China, that 597 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 2: she got it in her head that I needed a 598 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 2: nutritional boost. I was very short back then, so she 599 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 2: got pigeon expensive from the farmer's market and would make 600 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 2: this soup that I really couldn't appreciate at the time. 601 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 2: It had all sorts of medicinal herbs expensive that imparted 602 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 2: a rather bitter flavor. I do recall the meat being 603 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 2: incredibly tender, though more delicious worthy. Pigeon eggs very small 604 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,839 Speaker 2: like quail eggs, but very tender. Most magically, the egg 605 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,840 Speaker 2: whites were translucent even when fully cooked through food side. 606 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 2: There are still people in China who raise pigeons for racing. 607 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 2: I came across such a cage while exploring the alleyways 608 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 2: and they attached videos. 609 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:11,760 Speaker 1: Mm hmm man. Oh yeah, well I love this idea 610 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: because as a kid, I would have thought the same thing. 611 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,359 Speaker 1: How magical it would be, like, oh it's trans. 612 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yes, slightly different than the eggs I'm used 613 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 2: to cool perfect, it must. 614 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: Be magic, I tell you, yes, yes, but yeah, also 615 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: that your grandmother had thought you needed a nutritional booze. Yeah, okay, yeah, 616 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: I get this pigeon Yeah, this child, child is too short. 617 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:47,279 Speaker 1: Pigeon soup, let's go. Yes, I mean honestly, chicken soup 618 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 1: for the soul. 619 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 2: That's right now, sure, Yeah, it's a lot of people 620 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,399 Speaker 2: subscribe to this pigeon soup for the soul. 621 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, pigeon soup for the soul. I have had a 622 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,280 Speaker 1: lot of pea in my friend group get covid lately, 623 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: and I have been trying to cheer them up a 624 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: little bit, and I'll be like, at least you can 625 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: eat all the soup that you want. What kind of 626 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:18,879 Speaker 1: soup can I send you? Which is kind of sad 627 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: because I feel like you should be able to eat 628 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: the soup you want anytime. 629 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 2: But yeah, there shouldn't need to be an excuse for it. 630 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 2: Absolutely not. 631 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: That's when I got COVID like a year ago. That 632 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: was like the first thing I thought was like, I 633 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: can eat all the soups. Yes, so you. 634 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 2: Know, I definitely ate a lot of soup while I 635 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 2: was out six So you know, there, we there, we 636 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 2: are there, we are there. 637 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: We are here, we are Oh and listeners, if you 638 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: have soup recipes. I'm a soup fiend. I don't know 639 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: if I'll speak to you, Lauren, but I love soup. Yeah, 640 00:40:58,640 --> 00:40:59,400 Speaker 1: soup season. 641 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,919 Speaker 2: We are in soup season. It's not coming quite quick 642 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 2: enough for me, but it's for getting there slowly. 643 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, so that would be very much. I still 644 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: make some of the soups some of you has sent in. 645 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: I made one recently, so yes, you can send those 646 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 1: to us at our email. Thanks to both of these 647 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,279 Speaker 1: listeners for writing away, and if you would like to 648 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 1: write in, you can. Our email is hello at savorpod 649 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:31,320 Speaker 1: dot com. 650 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 2: We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, 651 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 2: and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope to 652 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,279 Speaker 2: hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more 653 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,280 Speaker 2: podcasts to my heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, 654 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 655 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 2: Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and 656 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 2: Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope 657 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 2: that lots more good things are coming your way.