WEBVTT - Racist Borders, Racist Orders

0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.720
<v Speaker 1>Good morning, peeps, and welcome to bokay f Daily with

0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:18.200
<v Speaker 1>Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording live from our podstream

0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.520
<v Speaker 1>studios here in Times Square, Folks, I have made it

0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:27.200
<v Speaker 1>a point over all of last week to discuss the

0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.680
<v Speaker 1>crisis that is unfolding at the border. I wrote a

0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:36.800
<v Speaker 1>piece in Zora magazine about why America owes the people

0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:40.240
<v Speaker 1>of Haiti better than what they are doing. I want

0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.760
<v Speaker 1>to bring you up to speed right now where we

0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:49.080
<v Speaker 1>have learned that over two thousand Haitians have been deported

0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:53.440
<v Speaker 1>in the last week, back to Port to Prance. What

0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:58.200
<v Speaker 1>we know is that the country is politically ravaged, is

0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:04.880
<v Speaker 1>being essentially run by bunches of gangs. That who the

0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:11.160
<v Speaker 1>Americans want to anoint as the next prime minister is

0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:14.920
<v Speaker 1>not someone that the people actually want. But that doesn't

0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:22.720
<v Speaker 1>stop America from inserting its foot inserting itself into foreign

0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.800
<v Speaker 1>affairs that frankly, it has no business being a part of.

0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:29.679
<v Speaker 1>What is troubling to me, what continues to be troubling

0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:33.040
<v Speaker 1>to me is that I don't know about you, but

0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.680
<v Speaker 1>how many more decades are we going to hear about

0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:41.640
<v Speaker 1>a broken immigration system without there being an actual solve

0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:45.680
<v Speaker 1>to it. And it seems to me that every single

0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:50.240
<v Speaker 1>Congress and every single administration continues to kick the can

0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.880
<v Speaker 1>down the road for some other administration and Congress to

0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:58.000
<v Speaker 1>pick up. What's unfortunate, however, is that our Congress is

0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.520
<v Speaker 1>filled with a bunch of the same mothers that have

0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.760
<v Speaker 1>been there since like the beginning of time. I shit

0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.680
<v Speaker 1>you not. Senator Grassley has decided, at the ripe old

0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:11.040
<v Speaker 1>age of eighty eight, that he's going to run for reelection.

0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:14.520
<v Speaker 1>The man has been in elected office since the nineteen

0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:18.400
<v Speaker 1>fucking fifties. So we wonder when we turn around and

0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.480
<v Speaker 1>we say, how come we don't have any new policies?

0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.120
<v Speaker 1>How come we don't have any fresh ideas well, if

0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:26.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking at the average age of those that are

0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:28.839
<v Speaker 1>sitting in the fucking Senate right now, I'm looking at

0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:33.399
<v Speaker 1>what a bunch of septarians or like octanagarians like, it's

0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:39.040
<v Speaker 1>ridiculous where we are. And you know, here's the other thing,

0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:44.120
<v Speaker 1>and I mentioned this last week, is when Yumishali Sendor

0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:47.680
<v Speaker 1>ask Jensaki whether or not the President of the United

0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:52.960
<v Speaker 1>States is going to speak directly about the tragedy that

0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.720
<v Speaker 1>we are witnessing unfold at the border. She said, well,

0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.959
<v Speaker 1>he speaks through me, he speaks through other people he met,

0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.760
<v Speaker 1>speak on his own. And I'm saying to myself, when

0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:08.120
<v Speaker 1>we set up a situation where we have people justifying

0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.960
<v Speaker 1>whether or not what was used by the Texas fucking

0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.520
<v Speaker 1>Border Patrol is a whip or is it horse reins?

0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.239
<v Speaker 1>And I don't need to go through with white people

0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:23.000
<v Speaker 1>and unpack and dissect brutality with you when you want

0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.040
<v Speaker 1>me to not believe my eyes but to believe your

0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:31.400
<v Speaker 1>continual lying ass mouths. And I'm calling out this administration

0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:37.040
<v Speaker 1>because they have considerably fucked this up in I mean,

0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:41.200
<v Speaker 1>the epic proportions a fuckery that is happening at the

0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:45.480
<v Speaker 1>border right now is insane. And you know, I could

0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:51.120
<v Speaker 1>probably be maybe just as angry or angrier if it

0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.160
<v Speaker 1>had been a Trump administration, but I wouldn't be surprised.

0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.880
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't feel like I was caught out. But that's

0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:00.960
<v Speaker 1>exactly how I feel with this administration. And then they

0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.520
<v Speaker 1>want to make an announcement at the end of last

0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:07.240
<v Speaker 1>week where they tell us that, oh, for the time being,

0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:12.400
<v Speaker 1>the Department of Homeland Security is going to what suspend

0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:17.320
<v Speaker 1>the use of horses as if the horses were the

0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:23.039
<v Speaker 1>fucking problem, they weren't, right. It wasn't the horse that

0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.159
<v Speaker 1>was the problem. I believe that it's the men that

0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.600
<v Speaker 1>are riding the horse and their attachment and love affair

0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.640
<v Speaker 1>to white supremacy and the feeling that they get to

0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:38.680
<v Speaker 1>live out their cowboy fantasies, right, that that is actually

0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:44.040
<v Speaker 1>the problem. So how do you suspend that exactly? How

0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:49.520
<v Speaker 1>do you enforce humanity for people that do not see

0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:53.200
<v Speaker 1>people that do not have the same skin color as

0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:58.640
<v Speaker 1>them as being human? How do you legislate depravity out

0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:04.040
<v Speaker 1>of people? What is fucking frustrating to me and continues

0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:08.240
<v Speaker 1>to be frustrating, is the fact that we just continue

0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:14.320
<v Speaker 1>to ignore racism in this country and how it plays

0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:19.880
<v Speaker 1>a part literally in everything that we do. No one

0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:25.320
<v Speaker 1>has been fired from border patrol, nobody from DHS has

0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:29.520
<v Speaker 1>lost their job, and in a couple of days, those

0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.920
<v Speaker 1>pictures will cease to have the impact that they did

0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:37.320
<v Speaker 1>last week, and we will move on to the next crisis,

0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:42.520
<v Speaker 1>to the next problem, continuing to kick this can down

0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:48.679
<v Speaker 1>the street again. But when I look at the faces

0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:54.160
<v Speaker 1>of those Patian migrants, when I look at their children's faces,

0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.920
<v Speaker 1>you see, because I have a heart because I believe

0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:03.520
<v Speaker 1>in values of morality and humanization. For all that, I

0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:08.200
<v Speaker 1>don't have to right articulate my humanity. I shouldn't have

0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.960
<v Speaker 1>to plead for it by virtue of my birth right.

0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:18.440
<v Speaker 1>I should be provided with the basics. But that is

0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:22.120
<v Speaker 1>not how this country is set up. We don't even

0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:26.320
<v Speaker 1>do that for our own goddamn citizens, let alone those

0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.760
<v Speaker 1>that still think that America is the better place to

0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.559
<v Speaker 1>be than the place that they are coming from, which

0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:36.200
<v Speaker 1>I say, wow, you know, because the place that you're

0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:41.159
<v Speaker 1>fleeing clearly has to be on fire, underwater, you know,

0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.359
<v Speaker 1>under siege for you to think in this day and

0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:49.000
<v Speaker 1>age that America is your safe harbor at a time

0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.840
<v Speaker 1>when our democracy is hanging on by a goddamn thread,

0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:56.960
<v Speaker 1>and Republicans and Democrats alike continue to act like all

0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.480
<v Speaker 1>is okay. It is like we are living in that

0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.520
<v Speaker 1>active meme with the dog that is sitting at the

0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:06.159
<v Speaker 1>table drinking the coffee. Everything's fine, but the entire fucking

0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:11.360
<v Speaker 1>room is on fire. You know, the reality is that

0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:16.400
<v Speaker 1>we care very little for black people in this country.

0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:20.680
<v Speaker 1>We care even less for black people in other countries.

0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:27.720
<v Speaker 1>But when they show up in mass on Shore and

0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:31.320
<v Speaker 1>are not even heard. Do you understand that their cases

0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:35.679
<v Speaker 1>there please, are not even being heard because this administration

0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:39.400
<v Speaker 1>has decided to continue Title forty two, which was developed

0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.480
<v Speaker 1>under Trump and used under Trump as a way to

0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:48.119
<v Speaker 1>expeditially right, get rid of people that you don't want

0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:51.400
<v Speaker 1>without having to justify a hearing. And then for those

0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.240
<v Speaker 1>people who underneath my posts on social media love to

0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.120
<v Speaker 1>tell me, oh, well, they're all bringing in COVID and

0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:01.760
<v Speaker 1>you know what about COVID? Fuck? I would love to,

0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, fence off Tennessee, but we can't fucking do that.

0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.200
<v Speaker 1>You want to be concerned about colvid, Why don't you

0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.560
<v Speaker 1>be concerned about the red state governors that are allowing

0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:15.560
<v Speaker 1>the virus to run rampant because they're weaponizing it. Talk

0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:18.440
<v Speaker 1>to me about that. Don't talk to me about people

0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:22.040
<v Speaker 1>that are fleeing violence and hunger and despair trying to

0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:27.120
<v Speaker 1>come here. We have a country that is flush with vaccines.

0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Haiti does not right, They don't have the infrastructure for

0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:35.160
<v Speaker 1>it we do in the United States, and we can't

0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.760
<v Speaker 1>even convince the people down the fucking street to get

0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:41.319
<v Speaker 1>one without putting in a vaccine mandate. That says, guess

0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:46.959
<v Speaker 1>what you can't go anywhere as the seasons change, because

0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:50.280
<v Speaker 1>everywhere indoors is going to require a vaccine. At least

0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:52.840
<v Speaker 1>that's how it looks in New York. That sure's fuck

0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:58.160
<v Speaker 1>is not how it looks everywhere else. Coming up next, Friends,

0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:03.040
<v Speaker 1>is going to be my conversation with our expert, who

0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:07.000
<v Speaker 1>is going to talk to us about this immigration problem,

0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.480
<v Speaker 1>where we go about this broken system and whether or

0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.080
<v Speaker 1>not we are going to be able to do anything

0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:19.240
<v Speaker 1>about it in the months and years to come. Folks,

0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:22.320
<v Speaker 1>I am very happy to welcome to the show for

0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:26.400
<v Speaker 1>the first time Kevin Johnson, who is the dean of

0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:30.320
<v Speaker 1>the University of California Davis School and co author of

0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:34.400
<v Speaker 1>the book Immigration, Law and Social Justice. You know, one

0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.040
<v Speaker 1>of the things that I brought up in a piece

0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:41.680
<v Speaker 1>that I wrote last week which was entitled America owes

0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:46.720
<v Speaker 1>the Haitian People More? And what I did was go

0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.960
<v Speaker 1>through historical analysis of what the United States is part

0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:55.600
<v Speaker 1>has been in creating economic and political instability in Haiti

0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.280
<v Speaker 1>And what I think, and you know, you tell me

0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:00.720
<v Speaker 1>if I'm wrong or don't have the fu enough picture,

0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.920
<v Speaker 1>is I feel like the problem that we have when

0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:08.440
<v Speaker 1>we're discussing immigration as a whole, is that we're not

0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:15.160
<v Speaker 1>really asking why these countries are in shambles in the

0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:19.320
<v Speaker 1>way that they are and what part the United States

0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:26.719
<v Speaker 1>and global indifference has had in them being in such disarray.

0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.800
<v Speaker 1>And so when we look at you know, the influx,

0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.360
<v Speaker 1>whether it is coming from Mexico, Central America, from Haiti,

0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:40.040
<v Speaker 1>from countries that have had disruptive governments and basically you know,

0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:45.520
<v Speaker 1>paltry economic viability, that we don't look at the policies

0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.880
<v Speaker 1>that we have allowed that created those situations or the

0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.600
<v Speaker 1>ways in which we got to cherry pick political leaders

0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.360
<v Speaker 1>that were not chosen in a democratic fashion. And yet

0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:57.960
<v Speaker 1>we go around the world and we bigfoot and say

0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.400
<v Speaker 1>that we're here right because we're owing to be you know,

0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:04.800
<v Speaker 1>the valiant knights that are going to provide democracy for you.

0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:08.560
<v Speaker 1>And yet we're choosing leaders. We're doing this right now

0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.880
<v Speaker 1>after the assassination of the prime minister in Haiti, we're

0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:15.000
<v Speaker 1>trying to back another leader that the people are saying

0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:20.000
<v Speaker 1>we don't want. And so is there or should there

0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:24.560
<v Speaker 1>be more conversation not of talking about the people that

0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:29.080
<v Speaker 1>arrive as the problem, but rather the policies that we

0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:34.240
<v Speaker 1>have championed that allowed for these people to be in

0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:39.080
<v Speaker 1>such a desperate situation. Now, I think you're exactly right.

0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:44.560
<v Speaker 1>We as a nation tend to view immigration as a

0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:49.080
<v Speaker 1>continuing series of crisis. You know, it's Cubans are coming,

0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:53.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, Haitians are coming, Mexicans are coming, Muslims are coming,

0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:57.360
<v Speaker 1>and how do we protect ourselves from the crisis. We

0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:05.000
<v Speaker 1>don't interrogate why people are migrating. We could say, well,

0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:10.240
<v Speaker 1>what was our United States government role in propping up

0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:17.920
<v Speaker 1>a dictatorial Haitian series of presidents that led to mass poverty, violence,

0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:23.400
<v Speaker 1>political unrest, and all the way up today leading to

0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:27.520
<v Speaker 1>the situation see today, we tend not to focus on that.

0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:32.920
<v Speaker 1>You can look at Mexico. Why are so many Mexican

0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:38.679
<v Speaker 1>migrants coming? Part of it is economic and you could say, well,

0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.640
<v Speaker 1>look what NAFTA did. NAFTA was a trade agreement. It

0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:48.640
<v Speaker 1>benedit fitted a big farmers in Mexico. Small farmers became poorer,

0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:53.440
<v Speaker 1>left their land and are coming to the United States.

0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:58.480
<v Speaker 1>So that the economic dislocation created by NAFTA, which we champion,

0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:03.640
<v Speaker 1>that led to the migration streams we see today propping

0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:09.480
<v Speaker 1>up dictators in El Salvador and Guatemala and Honduras have

0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:15.000
<v Speaker 1>had the same impacts. Our policies towards Cuba has led

0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.080
<v Speaker 1>to my migrations that we've had to deal with at

0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:22.240
<v Speaker 1>various points in time. But we don't say, guys, what

0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.240
<v Speaker 1>was our role in these migrations? We say, how do

0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:29.160
<v Speaker 1>we stop them? And the truth of the matter is

0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:33.560
<v Speaker 1>is that you reduce migration in the long run by

0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:39.000
<v Speaker 1>not propping up dictatorial regimes, not making countries poorer, but

0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:42.960
<v Speaker 1>helping them. Richard, the long term solution to migration really,

0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:47.080
<v Speaker 1>and I do think the Biden administration is voiced these

0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:51.200
<v Speaker 1>words and actually sending Vice President Harris to Central American

0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:53.520
<v Speaker 1>to meet with the leaders. Her focus was on long

0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:58.120
<v Speaker 1>term solutions. The long term solutions to migration. If you're

0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.959
<v Speaker 1>worried about too many people coming, or your view, too

0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:05.000
<v Speaker 1>many people are coming, the long term solution is economic

0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:10.520
<v Speaker 1>prosperity and political stability. Most of the world, ninety five

0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:12.520
<v Speaker 1>percent of the world dies within one hundred miles where

0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.840
<v Speaker 1>it for Most people want to stay home. Most people

0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:19.400
<v Speaker 1>are more comfortable with their language, their culture, their community,

0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:24.960
<v Speaker 1>in their country. People leave when conditions are such that

0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.040
<v Speaker 1>they leave in large numbers. When conditions are such or

0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.840
<v Speaker 1>it's untendable to stay home. So if if we're really

0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:37.240
<v Speaker 1>interested in decreasing migration pressures from around the world, providing

0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:43.400
<v Speaker 1>economic support, political support, and thinking the long game, not

0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:45.800
<v Speaker 1>how do we stop these people from coming? Is what

0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:49.240
<v Speaker 1>you have to do. But the problem with that, and

0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:54.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm not saying it's an insurmountable problem, is that we

0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:58.040
<v Speaker 1>tend to be reactive when it comes to migration. We

0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.320
<v Speaker 1>also tend not to want to spend money on foreign

0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:08.680
<v Speaker 1>countries in building their institutions because it's too difficult for

0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:13.240
<v Speaker 1>us to understand the link between if they're strong, we're

0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 1>better off, and it's it is costly. But the policies

0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:23.840
<v Speaker 1>we've had in Central America devastated those countries, and that's

0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.560
<v Speaker 1>why you're seeing many Central Americans coming. You can look

0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:30.720
<v Speaker 1>at Haiti, you can look at Mexico, you look at Venezuela,

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.920
<v Speaker 1>look at Cuba. You know it's in Those are countries

0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:37.720
<v Speaker 1>that are close to us, so you can expect larger

0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:42.120
<v Speaker 1>numbers of people coming to it's easier to do. I

0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.600
<v Speaker 1>want to focus for a second on what you said

0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:47.760
<v Speaker 1>with regard to how you stop mass migration. Right, is

0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:54.280
<v Speaker 1>economic investment right? Into the countries and communities that we've

0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.680
<v Speaker 1>affected with whether the support or the propping up of dictators.

0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.720
<v Speaker 1>I want to look at the last twenty years in

0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:04.760
<v Speaker 1>Afghanistan for a moment, and the fact that you know,

0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:09.240
<v Speaker 1>for twenty years the United States was in this country,

0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:15.600
<v Speaker 1>spent oh, I don't know, depending on some reports, anywhere

0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:19.520
<v Speaker 1>between eight and twenty one billion dollars over the course

0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.000
<v Speaker 1>of twenty years, and within a matter of weeks, the

0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:28.400
<v Speaker 1>entire infrastructure of the country collapses, and now we're opening,

0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:32.960
<v Speaker 1>supposedly opening our doors, according to this administration, to ninety

0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:38.440
<v Speaker 1>five thousand Afghans that have been displaced because of our

0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:42.360
<v Speaker 1>intervening in a country that many say, and I personally

0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:44.880
<v Speaker 1>believe that we had no business being in to begin

0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.640
<v Speaker 1>with without a clear entrance and a clear exit strategy.

0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:54.560
<v Speaker 1>What are the lessons to learn from the money, lives

0:16:55.000 --> 0:17:00.320
<v Speaker 1>and time wasted in this particular part of the world world.

0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:02.760
<v Speaker 1>What are the lessons that you think that we can

0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:08.400
<v Speaker 1>learn from Afghanistan that we shouldn't be copycatting in other

0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:12.240
<v Speaker 1>nation states? So seemingly I agree with you with regard

0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.800
<v Speaker 1>to the investments that need to be made into areas

0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.680
<v Speaker 1>that we have torpedoed in a lot of different in

0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.120
<v Speaker 1>a lot of different ways over many decades. What lessons

0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.200
<v Speaker 1>can we take from what happened in Afghanistan and not

0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:31.600
<v Speaker 1>model Yeah, well, I think spending billions on war, trying

0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:34.720
<v Speaker 1>to force something on people that may not want it,

0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.760
<v Speaker 1>isn't going to give you the stability or the economic

0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:43.080
<v Speaker 1>growth that's necessary. I'm not saying that we should have

0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:48.440
<v Speaker 1>supported the Taliban, but I do think that the idea

0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:54.760
<v Speaker 1>of conducting war like in Vietnam, like in Afghanistan, given

0:17:54.840 --> 0:18:01.400
<v Speaker 1>the popular resistance, without building institutions, without supporting communities, uh,

0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:05.879
<v Speaker 1>isn't going to work Because I mean, throwing in a

0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:10.200
<v Speaker 1>war machine propping things up, uh, isn't going to necessarily

0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 1>transform the hearts and minds the people people of the country. Uh.

0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:19.080
<v Speaker 1>And I think that what we can learn is that

0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:25.399
<v Speaker 1>spending money on helping people build their own institutions, as

0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:30.080
<v Speaker 1>opposed to imposing institutions on them or trying to impress

0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:33.679
<v Speaker 1>upon them they should adopt American ways somehow isn't going

0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.959
<v Speaker 1>to necessarily work. But I think that the primary focus

0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:45.520
<v Speaker 1>on on war um into quote liberating these these countries. Uh.

0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, it isn't going to work in the longer,

0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.600
<v Speaker 1>and the hearts and minds and the people have to

0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:56.119
<v Speaker 1>be committed to change and to the building of institutions.

0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:59.879
<v Speaker 1>And it strikes me that what happened in Afghanistan is

0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.560
<v Speaker 1>we spent a lot on war, not so much on UM,

0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:07.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, building those durable institutions. We're going to be

0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:13.240
<v Speaker 1>able to remain in place after we left. And Uh,

0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:18.760
<v Speaker 1>there are other factors involved, I think, UM, But to me, UM, yeah,

0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:23.080
<v Speaker 1>a twenty year of war with UM, you know, many

0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.080
<v Speaker 1>more casualties on their side than on our side, but

0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.920
<v Speaker 1>an awful lot of casualties on our side too. UM.

0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.960
<v Speaker 1>It shows that, UM, there are limits to what you

0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:37.920
<v Speaker 1>can do through through the pointing of a gun. M M.

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:44.439
<v Speaker 1>You know another thing too that I find really frustrating again,

0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, and you began and have peppered throughout this

0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:53.480
<v Speaker 1>conversation talking about racism, right, and you know, illuminating that

0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.960
<v Speaker 1>many of the policies, right. I won't say all because

0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:58.679
<v Speaker 1>I don't know all of them, but many of them

0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:02.800
<v Speaker 1>are steeped in racism and classism. Right. What Donald Trump

0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.119
<v Speaker 1>famously said, we only want the best people, you know,

0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:07.639
<v Speaker 1>why can't we get people that are coming from Norway, right,

0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:11.719
<v Speaker 1>seemingly you know, white and middle and upper class, right,

0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:16.080
<v Speaker 1>was the connotation behind that racist statement. But Donald Trump

0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:20.439
<v Speaker 1>said out loud what many people in the United States belief, right,

0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Democrats and Republicans alike. Is there a way right to

0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:33.440
<v Speaker 1>create immigration policy that isn't steeped in racism, that isn't

0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:37.440
<v Speaker 1>about Oh well, if you're coming, you know, from Chile

0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:42.640
<v Speaker 1>as opposed to from Venezuela or Colombia, you're better, right

0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.639
<v Speaker 1>if you can show us that you're coming here on

0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:49.720
<v Speaker 1>a work visa or college visa. Oh, that's the kind

0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.879
<v Speaker 1>of immigrant that we want. Is there a way to

0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:57.240
<v Speaker 1>create a system, because let's be frank that there isn't

0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:01.800
<v Speaker 1>a system in this nation that wasn't created from racist ideals, right, So,

0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:05.520
<v Speaker 1>is there a way, with everything that we know now

0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:10.760
<v Speaker 1>to detach ourselves from racism and classism, particularly at a

0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:13.720
<v Speaker 1>time when people don't even want to acknowledge reality that

0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:18.040
<v Speaker 1>it exists. No, I think that's that's another good point.

0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:22.760
<v Speaker 1>You know, systemic racism affects all aspects of US society,

0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:26.159
<v Speaker 1>from the education system, the voting system, the health system,

0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:33.320
<v Speaker 1>in criminal justice system. Obviously, the first thing if you're

0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:39.480
<v Speaker 1>really interested in removing that racism is awareness that it exists,

0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:44.159
<v Speaker 1>and we have been in is a nation have been

0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.600
<v Speaker 1>in denial or not racist? You know, the immigration laws

0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:51.639
<v Speaker 1>are color blind and race neutral. They don't discriminate. But

0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.639
<v Speaker 1>when you look at how things operate in the ground,

0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.120
<v Speaker 1>you look at those pictures along the border, how could

0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:04.320
<v Speaker 1>you not see that racism is infecting it when you

0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:10.960
<v Speaker 1>see the poor brown woman being separated from her brown

0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:15.680
<v Speaker 1>child who's crying. How can you not see the racisms

0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:18.439
<v Speaker 1>evolved when ninety percent of the people removed every year

0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:21.440
<v Speaker 1>or Latino, and most of those are removed because of

0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:24.440
<v Speaker 1>problems they had with our criminal justices, someone which we

0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:28.359
<v Speaker 1>know engages in race based law enforcement. How can we

0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:33.160
<v Speaker 1>not realize that that racism infects the system. I think

0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:37.399
<v Speaker 1>that we, in all aspects of our society are in

0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:40.720
<v Speaker 1>a profound sense of denial that racism exists and infects

0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:45.440
<v Speaker 1>our institutions. Now there's one place where I think that

0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:48.800
<v Speaker 1>we could help, or the Supreme Court could help. Maybe

0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:52.480
<v Speaker 1>it's not this court, But I like how you said

0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:55.000
<v Speaker 1>just You're like the court could help, but not this one.

0:22:55.480 --> 0:23:02.720
<v Speaker 1>Maybe you want down the road that is it for

0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:05.720
<v Speaker 1>Today's Woke F Daily Podcast. To hear more from me,

0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:10.320
<v Speaker 1>including five full hour long shows every single week, exclusive guests, interviews,

0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:13.480
<v Speaker 1>and more. Support me on Patreon at patreon dot com

0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:17.440
<v Speaker 1>slash WOKEF. Power to the people and to all the people. Power,

0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:19.560
<v Speaker 1>get woke and stay Wocus fuck