1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. In the new film 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: The Elephant in the Room, a proud progressive woman thinks 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: she's found the perfect guy until she learns he voted 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: for President Trump. Can their relationships survive their political differences. 5 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: The film stars Alyssa Lampeis as Leah, Sean Kleire is 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: her love interest, Vincent, and Dominic Burgess Leah's roommate Martin. 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: The Elephant in the Room is a scripted comedy that 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: explores the challenges of political polarization in a lighthearted and 9 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: human way. Here to discuss his new film, I'm really 10 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: pleased to welcome my guest writer, director Eric Bork. He 11 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: is an Emmy Award winning writer producer of the HBO 12 00:00:47,800 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: series Band of Brothers. Eric, Welcome, and thank you for 13 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: joining me in the News World. 14 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me excited to be here. 15 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: How did you get your start in film and television production? 16 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 2: You know, Tom Hanks, Really it gave me my start. 17 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: The short version is I grew up in Ohio, went 18 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 2: to film school, then moved out to Los Angeles and 19 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 2: got a job working as an assistant in the offices 20 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 2: of various people at one of the studios Fox Studios. 21 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 2: Eventually led to a temp assignment in Tom Hanks's little 22 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 2: production company at the time that turned into a permanent 23 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 2: assistant position during which I was answering the phone and 24 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: you know, he was shooting Forrest Gump. I was writing 25 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 2: scripts on the side, and eventually he read some of 26 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 2: my scripts it was kind of a fairy tale story 27 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: and offered me a promotion, which led to helping him 28 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 2: write and produce the mini series From the Earth to 29 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 2: the Moon, which was about the Apollo program for HBO, 30 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: and then a couple years later, Band of Brothers and 31 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: a lot of other projects that didn't get produced that 32 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: I worked as a writer for and with him. 33 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: When you did Bandon Brothers, how accurate historically was it? 34 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's pretty accurate by Hollywood standards. I 35 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: mean Tom was interviewed about that in joke that, like, 36 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 2: you know, most Hollywood productions of history are twelve percent accurate, 37 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 2: and if we're seventeen percent accurate will be hailed as heroes. 38 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 2: I think he said something like that. I mean, I 39 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: think we did better than that, But you know, we 40 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 2: relied on Steven Ambrose's book and the interviews he had 41 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 2: done with the veterans of Easy Company, as well as 42 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: our own interviews with the veterans, many of whom were 43 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: still alive at the time. Of course, when you're writing 44 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 2: a scripted television or film, you have to make it 45 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 2: comprehensible to an audience, which sometimes means consolidating characters and events, 46 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: and of course you're making up all the dialogue because 47 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 2: you don't know what they said. You know, they don't 48 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 2: remember that's not in the book, so you know you 49 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: have the broad strokes of what happened. Then you have 50 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 2: to fill in a lot of blanks in order to 51 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 2: write these scenes and turn them into episodes. So we 52 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 2: had to do that normal thing. But I think we 53 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,839 Speaker 2: were trying to be very accurate and faithful to their 54 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: stories while doing that, maybe more so than some World 55 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 2: War Two productions have been. But I don't want to 56 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: say it's hard to compare. 57 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: It's quite a break to somebody of the stature of 58 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: Tom Hanks in the sense take you under his wing. 59 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: What advice do you have for young people in college 60 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: or just out of college who dream of working in 61 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: film or television. 62 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: Well, I think what I did is a pretty good model. 63 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: Like if you want to be a writer. That's one 64 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: very specific path. There are other paths, but as a 65 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 2: screenwriter working as an assistant, those jobs can be competitive too. 66 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 2: You know, an office assistant within the industry in Los 67 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: Angeles is a kind of tried and true method. Trying 68 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,279 Speaker 2: to get on a television show as a writer's assistant 69 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 2: is a really good method as well. But you know, 70 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 2: if you want to be a director, the advice would 71 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: be a bit different. Make your own films, make anything 72 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: you can. You know, as a writer, you're writing scripts 73 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 2: and you're trying to meet people who will read your 74 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: scripts and sort of trying to work in that way. 75 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: But it's a world where you don't have to live 76 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: in La anymore, but it still helps. So I definitely 77 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: do recommend that for people if it's something that they 78 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: can feasibly do. 79 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: From Bandon Brothers to The Elephant in the Room is 80 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: a really big shift in topics. Your new film, The 81 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: Elephant in the Room is described as a red blue 82 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: rom con. At the heart of the film, you explore 83 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: whether a relationship can work across the political divide. How 84 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: did the idea for the story first come to you? 85 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: Well around twenty sixteen, Like a lot of people. I 86 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: started to become more and more aware of political polarization 87 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 2: as what seemed to be a societal problem, and at 88 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: the same time, you know, I was looking for ideas 89 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 2: for stories for a project that could write and direct 90 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: on a low budget, which I've been sort of wanting 91 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 2: to do that for about five years and had written 92 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: a few different scripts. As somewhat interested in romantic comedy, 93 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 2: I know that the key to a romantic comedy is 94 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 2: what's in the way of the relationship. Be something big 95 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 2: in the way that the audience roots for the couple 96 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: to solve, but that isn't easily solved, And so around 97 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,799 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, I started thinking, in today's day and age, 98 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,239 Speaker 2: political views could be that thing, opposing political views because 99 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 2: of just how extreme it's become. So I just started 100 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: playing with an idea for a script in which that 101 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 2: was the issue, while at the same time being interested 102 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 2: in polarization is an issue, and hoping that the resulting movie, 103 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: if I was able to raise the money and get 104 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 2: it made, would somehow explore that in a fresh way 105 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 2: that might be disarming for people. 106 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: Why did you pick comedy a romantic comedy? 107 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: Well, I'm a comedy person despite band of brothers. 108 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: I mean. 109 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: The funny thing about the scripts Tom Hanks had read 110 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: when he offered me my promotion were comedy scripts for 111 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: TV shows like Friends and Frasier, which I had written 112 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 2: to show that I could write comedy. They weren't actually 113 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 2: ever produced, but that's what you did as a writer, 114 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 2: is you wrote sample episodes of existing shows. So I 115 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: was always trying to write comedy, and Tom offered me 116 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 2: these incredible opportunities on these historical dramas. So I wrote 117 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 2: quite a few of those kinds of projects, but I 118 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 2: always wanted to come back to comedy, and I always 119 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 2: was writing comedy on my own on the side, and 120 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 2: romantic comedy is one type of comedy among others. But 121 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: I've always been interested in kind of smart comedies with 122 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 2: heart more than any other type of film. So it 123 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 2: was a natural for me to be looking for ideas 124 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 2: in that realm that this political topic became kind of 125 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 2: the latest idea. 126 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: I was very struck with. I think it's called The 127 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: Death of Stalin, which is a dark comedy about literally 128 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: the day he dies, all of a deal with as humor, 129 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: and the guys who did it said it was such 130 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 1: a horrifying topic that they thought comedy was the only 131 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: way an audience could stick with it, that otherwise it'd 132 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: be so turned off they wouldn't watch the movie. 133 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think there's a lot too that 134 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 2: and political arguments are also something people probably don't want 135 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: to tune in to watch on movies and TV. But 136 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 2: when it's done in a heartfelt comedy where you're not 137 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: taking it all quite so seriously, you know, it's kind 138 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 2: of like candy to help the medicine go down. I 139 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 2: suppose not that it's medicine, but it's a topic that's, 140 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 2: like you said, not easy to watch and maybe the 141 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: kind of thing we want to escape from because we 142 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 2: have it in our personal lives and we don't enjoy it. 143 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: Doesn't it become more complicated when you did it the 144 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: way you do, which is to make it a romantic comedy. 145 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: Do you have the dual tension? Yeah? 146 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 2: I think that's something screenwriters do, is like we look 147 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 2: for really unsolvable problems to put characters in because that's 148 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: where the drama and the comedy can come from. Yeah, 149 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 2: it's hard. The thing about romantic comedy is you generally 150 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: want the audience to root for both of the people 151 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: and like both of them, which could be hard to 152 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 2: do if one of them is politically opposed to you 153 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: as an audience member. So one of my challenges was 154 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: to try to create two characters that people on all 155 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 2: sides of the political spectrum would like and even emotionally 156 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: bond with and root for and even root for them 157 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: to maybe get with the person of opposite views, while 158 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 2: recognizing the two characters as believable versions of people with 159 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 2: those views. So those were the biggest challenges really in 160 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 2: the writing and even in the editing of the movie 161 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 2: to try to like strike that balance. 162 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: So in that context, though, given the normal biases of Hollywood, 163 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: how do you ensure that both characters' perspectives are represented 164 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: with authenticity and respect and keep it balanced and not 165 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: sort of inevitably have it slide into sort of an 166 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: anti Trump just given the nature of Hollywood. 167 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean not easy. And I came more 168 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 2: from the left for sure, and so it was easier 169 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: for me to write the character that was on the left, 170 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 2: which was the main character, the female. Although I had 171 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 2: a close friend who was a Trump supporter in twenty 172 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: sixteen that we began discussing, and I began getting his views, 173 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: and even if they didn't change my mind on issues, 174 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: they helped me write a character that, like him, was complicated, 175 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 2: because the thing about polarization is it tells us that 176 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 2: people on the other side are all one way, and 177 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 2: they're all one extreme thing that we should hate or 178 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: fear or feel as evil or stupid, And in real 179 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 2: life it's much more complicated than that. And I'm much 180 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: more interested in the nuance in the gray area than 181 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 2: the binary black and white choices. So it was a 182 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: combination of knowing someone like that and being naturally curious 183 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 2: as a writer and as a person in terms of 184 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 2: what makes someone with different views on certain issues have 185 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 2: those views, and being curious and open to that. But 186 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: also I found some organizations and nonprofits that are focused 187 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: on polarization that helped support the film and gave me 188 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 2: notes on the script to help me flesh out the 189 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 2: Trump voting character that was less something I related to 190 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 2: or understood in a way that would hopefully be believable 191 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 2: and dimensional and likable. It's up to the viewer whether 192 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 2: I achieved that or not, but that was the goal. 193 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: I'm curious, you know, a Gallup poll in twenty twenty 194 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: four found that a record high eighty percent of US 195 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: adults believe that Americans are greatly divided on core values. 196 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: There was a Pew Research poll a year later that 197 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: found that eight in ten say Republicans and Democrats not 198 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: only disagree on policies, they can't even agree on basic facts. 199 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: Why do you think we have this profound divide right 200 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: now in this country? 201 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 2: Well, I'm a writer and a film person and definitely 202 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 2: an amateur on politics. But my personal opinion is that 203 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 2: the incentive structure in politics and in much of the 204 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 2: media today rewards polarization, and that from a political viewpoint 205 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 2: or from a media viewpoint, it's easy to get votes 206 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 2: and clicks and viewers by riling up the emotions of 207 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 2: your side, and you do that by demonizing the other 208 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 2: side and by constantly spewing you could say stories that 209 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: are meant to make you fear and low the other 210 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 2: side even more than you already do, which I think 211 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 2: a lot of both political leaders and media outlets are 212 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 2: doing on both sides. And as someone who's always been 213 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 2: more on the left, I've really tried to identify to 214 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 2: what extent am I in a echo chamber myself and 215 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: work to not be in one. Even if I think 216 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 2: I agree with these people on this side, how do 217 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 2: I make sure that I'm not just being led by 218 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 2: people that want me to believe all one way, in 219 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: a very binary way. So I think it's helpful to 220 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 2: do that, But it's not easy, because it's easier to 221 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: be in a tribe of people that you feel like, 222 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 2: these are my people. I agree with them, they're the 223 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: right side, they're the moral side, and it's not fun 224 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: to cross over and hear the arguments from the other side. 225 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: In some ways, it'd be easier to do a die 226 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: tri beat it away. You can do a right wing 227 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: AsSalt or a left wing of Salt and a basier. 228 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: You really have a remarkable career for somebody who's interested 229 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: in this. How does a film project like this go 230 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: from conception through production to marketing. It's a very complicated system, 231 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: it is. 232 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 2: And when you're operating on an ultra low budget like 233 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 2: we were, and you don't have the backing of a 234 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 2: Netflix or a Disney or a Paramount or some big company, 235 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 2: it starts with fundraising, and there are a lot of 236 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 2: different ways to do that. Some people just go after 237 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 2: high net worth individuals in their network who might want 238 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 2: to put money into a film, which is a pretty 239 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 2: risky investment for me. I used a crowdfunding platform similar 240 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 2: to a kickstarter, only instead of donations, people can become 241 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 2: part of the movie as investors. I used a site 242 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 2: called we funder, which apparently was made possible by a 243 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 2: law pass during the Obama administration, where in investors of 244 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 2: as little as one hundred dollars can become investors in 245 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 2: a startup company or a film. So this website attracts 246 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 2: amateur and professional investors who want to get in on 247 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 2: sometimes a very low level, on various companies. And there 248 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 2: are some films on there that had raised two three 249 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars. So I use that site, and it 250 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 2: took a while and it wasn't easy to try to 251 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 2: raise money. And then I also found these nonprofits that 252 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 2: were interested in polarization and thought the film was helpful 253 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,719 Speaker 2: for that cause. There have been a lot of documentaries 254 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 2: on the topic, but they felt that documentaries can sometimes 255 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 2: preach to the choir, and they thought a scripted romantic 256 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 2: comedy might touch people in a new way or reach 257 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 2: more people. So I got some funding there from grants 258 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 2: and donations from nonprofits and individuals. So put those two 259 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: things together and found enough money to start pre production, 260 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 2: and worked with a union of actors SAG after it 261 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: to get a contract with them at a certain budget 262 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: level so that I could hire professional actors who are 263 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,199 Speaker 2: members of the union, which was definitely necessary in my view. 264 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 2: And then putting together the crew and doing all the 265 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 2: things you do on a low budget film where you're 266 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 2: wearing a lot of different hats and you're trying to 267 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 2: do it at a low budget level in order to 268 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 2: be able to make it for the money that we raised. 269 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 2: In terms of locations and number of crew members and 270 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 2: number of shooting days, it's a movie that could all 271 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: be shot in one house with mainly three actors, which 272 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 2: makes it cheaper because it was set during the pandemic. 273 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 2: It was also believable that these people are just hanging 274 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 2: out in this one house and they're not going on 275 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 2: dates and restaurants and bars, which makes it cheaper. And 276 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 2: then eventually finishing the movie looking for distribution. That's a 277 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: whole other conversation which we can get into if you'd like, 278 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: on what the options are for independent films to reach 279 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 2: the marketplace and reach viewers. 280 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: Well, because do you start marketing it before the film 281 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: is done, or do you wait until you have something 282 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: to show people. 283 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 2: I waited till after. I mean, some people do a 284 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 2: lot of social media marketing all the way through. I 285 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 2: wasn't really that savvy on social media, so I wasn't 286 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 2: building a huge social media following during production and so forth. 287 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 2: I pretty much waited until we had a finished film 288 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: and then looked for distribution and found an independent producers 289 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 2: rep that could present the film to various distribution companies, 290 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 2: and I found one that was interested two one for 291 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 2: American rights, one for international rights, and both of them 292 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 2: work and getting the film out there. But for independent 293 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 2: films these days, it's very hard to get a theatrical release, 294 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 2: and it's very hard to get on Netflix or Hulu 295 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 2: or HBO Max because they're not really licensing independent films 296 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 2: that don't have major stars. Our film has working actors 297 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 2: you've probably seen in things, but doesn't have major stars 298 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 2: in it. So most films at this level end up 299 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 2: on the paid to rent, paid to buy platforms like 300 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 2: Amazon and Apple and Google Play, which the film is 301 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 2: now on. It was released this month on those platforms 302 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: and then maybe later on the ad supported free services 303 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 2: like two B which it will probably be on after 304 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 2: a while. And then you know, you try to make 305 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 2: deals with foreign distributors in various countries for whatever rights 306 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 2: they want for their territories, which we have a sales 307 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: agent off doing that separately and reporting back how many 308 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: deals they can find. And that's ongoing as well. 309 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: So when you start, and if I understand your correctly, 310 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: but in case of this film, you would start on 311 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: sort of a rental basis where the film's there in 312 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: order to see if people pay some modest amount and 313 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: then they have access for two days or three days 314 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: or something, or they could buy it, which case they 315 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: have it permanently. Can people go to Amazon or where 316 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: do they go? 317 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can go to Amazon or the Apple store 318 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: or iTunes store or the Google Play or YouTube where 319 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: they have movies for rent. So it's up on all 320 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 2: those platforms to rent or buy. 321 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: And if Sony pays whatever the amount is, does a 322 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: part of that go back to Google or Apple and 323 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: then a part of it goes to you. 324 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, Google or Apple or Amazon withholds a certain percentage. 325 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: I think Amazon withholds fifty percent, which is higher than 326 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 2: the others. But with Amazon you maybe get a boost 327 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 2: in terms of their algorithms and the film being discoverable 328 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 2: by more people, So there's sort of an incentive there 329 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 2: to be on Amazon. But yes, they withhold a portion. 330 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 2: Then some goes to the aggregator service that gets it 331 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 2: on the platforms, some goes to the distributor that worked 332 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 2: with the aggregator, and then some comes back to the 333 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 2: film which then distributes it to investors to help the 334 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 2: investors recoup on their investment. 335 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: I've written a fair number of books, and we have 336 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 1: a pretty standard rule of thumb that you have to 337 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: spend as much time marketing the book as you spend 338 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: writing it. Is that your sense that now it's done, Yeah, 339 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 1: I have a whole day cycle of getting people to watch. 340 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 2: It, for sure, and that cycle has just begun for us. 341 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 2: And the other thing is, ideally a movie you spend 342 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 2: as much money marketing it as you did making it, 343 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 2: which can be millions and millions of dollars, not in 344 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 2: our case. And one of the challenges with independent films 345 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 2: is often you raise only enough to make the movie 346 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 2: and finish the movie, but not a lot for marketing, 347 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 2: which was certainly what's happened with us as well, where 348 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 2: we had a modest amount in order to hire a 349 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 2: publicis for a short time in order to have a 350 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 2: paid social media team. But if we had lots more money, 351 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 2: we would do probably more ads on Facebook and Instagram 352 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 2: and maybe YouTube paid ads. But as for right now, 353 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 2: we're basically doing organic social media as well as publicity 354 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 2: to get interviews and articles and reviews and stuff. The 355 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 2: big Hollywood movies obviously do billboards and they do TV 356 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 2: commercials and stuff like that too, but on the independent level, 357 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 2: you normally don't have the budget for that, but it 358 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 2: would be great to have that because that's really how 359 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 2: you get a lot of eyeballs. 360 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: Does word of mouth help? 361 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 2: I think word of mouth helps a lot. I mean 362 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 2: if people like the movie and they tell their friends, 363 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 2: and they even write a little review on Amazon or 364 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 2: IMDb after they've watched it, I think with a film 365 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 2: like this that probably can help a lot. Obviously, if 366 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 2: they post on social media and have a lot of followers, 367 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 2: all those things help. I can't tell you I know 368 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 2: exactly the key because it's my first time doing it 369 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 2: and we're still in the very early days. But certainly 370 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 2: I have to think that if people love it and 371 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,719 Speaker 2: find it unique and worth watching and tell people about it, 372 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 2: that can make a big difference. 373 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: Eric, I understand you have a unique marketing strategy using 374 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: a series of screenings. How does that work well. 375 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 2: One of the ways to get the film out there 376 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 2: is to have people watch it in person, which of 377 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 2: course is always lovely as a filmmaker to see the 378 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 2: film projected in front of an actual audience that gathers 379 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 2: for that purpose, even when you're not in theaters. There 380 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 2: are ways to do it that documentaries often do called 381 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 2: impact screenings or community screenings, where they pitch the film 382 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 2: to college groups or nonprofits who might want to hold 383 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 2: get together events where they host the film, screen it 384 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 2: and then discuss it afterwards. And what we've noticed is 385 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 2: this movie creates a lot of discussion. People are really 386 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 2: eager to talk about it afterwards because the issue of 387 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 2: political polarization is impacting most people's lives, families, et cetera. 388 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 2: And so it leads to a lot of engaged discussions. So, 389 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 2: even though it's not a documentary, some of the people 390 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 2: involved in partnering with me on the film have said 391 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 2: they think it could do well in that environment where 392 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 2: it could be hosted and be a community screening and 393 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 2: discussion afterwards. So we are starting to do that. We 394 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 2: are starting to pitch it to groups and to campuses 395 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 2: and political science professors, you know, centers for the study 396 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 2: of you know, American civic discourse, things like that that 397 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 2: you'll see at universities. We screened at a Jewish community 398 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: center in Manhattan a couple of weeks ago. That was great. 399 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 2: So there is a way to host screenings as well. 400 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 2: On the website for the film, you can fill out 401 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 2: a form, so. 402 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: If somebody's interested, then go to Helephant indroomfilm dot com 403 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: and there's a place where they can apply to host 404 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: of screening A host of screening. 405 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 406 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. When you sit down and think through those whole project, 407 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: how many days do you allocate for shooting eighteen? Which 408 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: is not many? As I understand that there's a term 409 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: making the day, which means you got everything done that 410 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: day that you'd scheduled. Have you laid that out before 411 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: you start shooting? Do you have each of the eighteen 412 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: days laid out? 413 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 2: Oh, one hundred percent, it's all mapped out and you're 414 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 2: shooting it out of order, which makes it kind of 415 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 2: crazy and difficult too. Like, for instance, our first day 416 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 2: of shooting, you shoot out one set or one location 417 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 2: and then move to another one. Now, we were all 418 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 2: in the same house the whole time, but there were 419 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 2: a bunch of scenes that happened in the entryway of 420 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 2: the house at the front door, and those scenes happen 421 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 2: in various places throughout the film. 422 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 1: Mostly it's like. 423 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 2: This guy is coming over. He's coming over for some 424 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 2: kind of date or conversation or event. He keeps coming over, 425 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 2: so every time he comes over, they're both in different wardrobe. 426 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 2: It's a different day, they have different emotions. But we're 427 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: shooting all of it on the first day of shooting 428 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 2: because we're going to light that area. The lighting is 429 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: what takes so much time, so the lighting crew of 430 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 2: the camera crew doesn't want to have to go back 431 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 2: and relight the same area on a different day. So 432 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 2: we do everything that happens in the entryway on day one, 433 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 2: then everything that happened in the kitchen on like day two, three, 434 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 2: and four, and so you're shooting it's so out of order. 435 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 2: The actors have to be really able to put themselves 436 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 2: in the mindset of where's my character at disappoint in 437 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 2: the movie for this scene we're about to do. 438 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking that you're asking them to have totally 439 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 1: different moments. They're not growing to them, they're not building 440 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: to them. It's just action now. I guess that's why 441 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: it's called acting. 442 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,120 Speaker 2: And that's one of the things that makes professional actors 443 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:41,959 Speaker 2: amazing is that they have the ability to do that, 444 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 2: and they have the ability to be kind of playful 445 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 2: and spontaneous in the moment and make each take also 446 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 2: feel brand new, because that's the other thing is you 447 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 2: shoot many takes and then the same scene from different angles, 448 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 2: and many takes from each angle, it could easily get 449 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 2: stale or repetitive, and a good actor, which I was 450 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 2: blessed to have, they can just be so loose that 451 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 2: each time they do it, it's like they're doing it 452 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 2: for the first time, although they're also integrating directions that 453 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 2: I've given them as well from what I've seen before, 454 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 2: and still making it feel like it's a real moment 455 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 2: that they're having that they've never had before. 456 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: This is what about a year and a half project, more. 457 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 2: Like three to four when you cap first writing and 458 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 2: all the fundraising, which took a year and a half 459 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 2: or two years. 460 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you now totally focused on marketing. Are you 461 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: being to think about the next project. 462 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 2: I'm mostly focused on marketing. I always have a script 463 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 2: i'm working on. You know, it's kind of like almost 464 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 2: daily hygiene. As a writer. You have at least an 465 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 2: hour a day on something or even less. So I 466 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 2: try to keep to that. But it's harder when I 467 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 2: am having all the work of trying to get the 468 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 2: movie out there and all the concern and emotion about 469 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 2: the ups and downs from day to day of how's 470 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 2: it doing and are people reviewing it or whatever? So far, 471 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 2: so good, though it's been getting positive reviews and feedback. 472 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: Are you inclined to stay with comedy for your next 473 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: movie or do you think about a different genre. 474 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 2: I pretty much always write comedy things that have some 475 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 2: kind of comedic aspect. I mean, there's all different kinds 476 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 2: of comedy, so I do kind of I would say, grounded, 477 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 2: character based comedy. Some people might call this movie more 478 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 2: of a dramedy I noticed on Amazon. I mean, I 479 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 2: think it's very funny, but there's some scenes that aren't funny. 480 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 2: But there's kind of comedy lays throughout. I think Amazon 481 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 2: was interesting the things that the descriptions that they put 482 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 2: on it when they posted it's like comedy, but then 483 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 2: it's said heavy and psychological. Well, who wants to watch 484 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: a heavy comedy? And what makes a comedy heavy? I 485 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 2: don't think it's heavy at all. I think it's light. 486 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 2: But it's a heavy topic. So I get what they mean, 487 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 2: because sometimes people want to watch a movie that doesn't 488 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 2: have a heavy topic. Comedy with a light topic, right, 489 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 2: But this isn't exactly that. 490 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: We have this interestingly complex new world where there are 491 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: more and more distribution points and more and more systems 492 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: of distribution, from the old time opening in a big 493 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: theater through all these very new cable systems to streaming. 494 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: Do you think that creates greater opportunity for independent film 495 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: or a greater challenge because you're surrounded by all this noise. 496 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 2: I think it's both. I think there's a greater opportunity 497 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 2: and ease to make creative content because anyone can do it. 498 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 2: It's really democratized and lowered the price and the barrier 499 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 2: to entry to produce something. But yes, you have to 500 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 2: break through the noise, and there's more noise than ever 501 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 2: and more outlets. I've heard people say for independent film 502 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 2: and maybe for filmmaking and creative people in general, writers, directors, etc. 503 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 2: It's the easiest time to make something and the hardest 504 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 2: time to sell it, meaning it's harder than ever arguably 505 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 2: to make money back, to make your budget back, to 506 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 2: have your investors recoup whatever. Because right now, people don't 507 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 2: think you should have to pay to watch a movie, right, 508 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 2: And I'm the same way. You know, if it's not 509 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 2: on Netflix or HBO Max or something I've already paid 510 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 2: to subscribe to, why do they want another four dollars? 511 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 2: That's crazy. I'm already paying for movies, right. Even though 512 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 2: we all know that many, if not most, of the 513 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 2: best movies, certainly new releases, aren't on any of those services, 514 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 2: we still tend to just want to watch at home, 515 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 2: meaning we don't go to theater and watch on a 516 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 2: service we already pay for. So people aren't renting and 517 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 2: buying movies as much as they used to, or going 518 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 2: to theaters as much, and so it's harder because you 519 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 2: end up having to find creative other ways for the 520 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 2: film to be a viable business. Proposition. 521 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: You're really in an intriguing business and I like that 522 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: we do what you really combine all of it. I 523 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: mean from the writing to the production, to the directing 524 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: to marketing. I mean you're sort of a one person 525 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: company in that sense in terms of your range of responsibilities. 526 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 1: Perfectly entrepreneurial sort of thing. I want to thank you 527 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: for joining me. Your new film, The Elephant in the 528 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: Room is available now on all the streaming platforms including Apple, 529 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: Google Play, Amazon, Vimeo, and YouTube, and the easiest way 530 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: for our listeners to access it is by going to 531 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,959 Speaker 1: Elephant inthroomfilm dot com and clicking on the watch tab 532 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: at the top of the page. And I look forward 533 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 1: when your next film is done, have you come back 534 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: and share with us again. 535 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 2: I'll look forward Toude as well. Thank you so much 536 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 2: for having me. 537 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Eric Bork. You can learn 538 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: more about his film The Elephant in the Room on 539 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newts World is 540 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: produced by Gingrish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer 541 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: is Guarnsey Slow, our researcher is Rachel Peterson, and our 542 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: guest producer is Lily Haley. The artwork for the show 543 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: was created by Steve Finley. Special thanks to the team 544 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: at Gingwish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I 545 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us 546 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others 547 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of 548 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: newts World can sign up from my three freeweekly columns 549 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: at gingrishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I have new Gingrich. 550 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: This is Newtsworld.