1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:23,996 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Airfares are through the roof. You know this, and 2 00:00:24,236 --> 00:00:27,116 Speaker 1: of course a key driver is the price of oil. 3 00:00:27,596 --> 00:00:31,196 Speaker 1: But you know oil is not the only cost for airlines. 4 00:00:31,596 --> 00:00:34,756 Speaker 1: Airlines have to pay staff and buy or lease planes 5 00:00:34,836 --> 00:00:38,596 Speaker 1: and acquire customers. So it seems like right now is 6 00:00:38,596 --> 00:00:41,276 Speaker 1: a great moment to take one of my favorite questions 7 00:00:41,316 --> 00:00:44,876 Speaker 1: in general and apply it to the airline industry, how 8 00:00:44,876 --> 00:00:48,156 Speaker 1: do you use technology to make stuff cheaper? And for 9 00:00:48,236 --> 00:00:50,796 Speaker 1: today's show, I found the perfect person to answer that 10 00:00:50,916 --> 00:00:58,476 Speaker 1: question for airfares. I'm Jacob Goldstein and this is What's 11 00:00:58,516 --> 00:01:01,556 Speaker 1: Your Problem, the show where entrepreneurs and engineers talk about 12 00:01:01,596 --> 00:01:03,796 Speaker 1: how they're going to change the world once they solve 13 00:01:03,836 --> 00:01:08,036 Speaker 1: a few problems. My guest today is David Neilaman. David 14 00:01:08,116 --> 00:01:13,236 Speaker 1: has founded by airlines, including most famously Jet Blue. Also, 15 00:01:13,316 --> 00:01:16,436 Speaker 1: he founded a Brazilian airline called a Zool, where he 16 00:01:16,556 --> 00:01:20,756 Speaker 1: is still the controlling shareholder, and most recently, David founded 17 00:01:20,836 --> 00:01:25,356 Speaker 1: a new US discount airline called Breeze. David's problem is this, 18 00:01:25,956 --> 00:01:28,996 Speaker 1: how do you use technology to drive down the price 19 00:01:29,116 --> 00:01:33,236 Speaker 1: of air travel. Most of my conversation with David was 20 00:01:33,276 --> 00:01:36,276 Speaker 1: about what he's working on at Breeze, but when I 21 00:01:36,276 --> 00:01:39,196 Speaker 1: asked him about technology, he couldn't resist going back to 22 00:01:39,236 --> 00:01:41,636 Speaker 1: the beginning of his career for just a minute. He 23 00:01:41,716 --> 00:01:45,476 Speaker 1: started out booking package tours. Then in the early nineteen eighties, 24 00:01:45,596 --> 00:01:48,596 Speaker 1: he launched an airline called Morris Air. And one of 25 00:01:48,636 --> 00:01:52,036 Speaker 1: the first things he noticed was how inconvenient and inefficient 26 00:01:52,156 --> 00:01:57,516 Speaker 1: paper tickets were. Tickets were like negotiable documents. They were 27 00:01:57,516 --> 00:02:00,756 Speaker 1: like checks, and they would be issued and if you 28 00:02:00,876 --> 00:02:04,316 Speaker 1: lost that thing, haven't forbid. Basically, they'd say, well, we'll 29 00:02:04,596 --> 00:02:07,396 Speaker 1: have to wait one hundred and eighty days or longer 30 00:02:07,396 --> 00:02:09,796 Speaker 1: to see if anyone uses your ticket. I don't use it, 31 00:02:10,516 --> 00:02:13,476 Speaker 1: then we'll give you a refund. And so I can 32 00:02:13,516 --> 00:02:16,036 Speaker 1: still remember, there's this guy named Stuart Thatcher, and he 33 00:02:16,076 --> 00:02:17,676 Speaker 1: walked to my office and he said, we had all 34 00:02:17,676 --> 00:02:21,956 Speaker 1: these people upstairs putting tickets in envelopes and mailing them 35 00:02:21,956 --> 00:02:24,956 Speaker 1: out to people. He said, why don't we just give 36 00:02:24,996 --> 00:02:27,836 Speaker 1: them a confirmation number, and then we'll put it on 37 00:02:27,876 --> 00:02:30,476 Speaker 1: these little things that we can run through a machine 38 00:02:30,716 --> 00:02:32,516 Speaker 1: and he can fold it quickly, and we'll just mail 39 00:02:32,596 --> 00:02:34,836 Speaker 1: him a confirmation number. And then I looked at him 40 00:02:34,836 --> 00:02:36,436 Speaker 1: and said, well, why would you give him a confirmation 41 00:02:36,516 --> 00:02:41,276 Speaker 1: number over the phone. You sort of invented the Yeah, 42 00:02:41,436 --> 00:02:45,516 Speaker 1: tickless travel, tickless travel. Yeah, I mean Southwest when they 43 00:02:45,596 --> 00:02:48,996 Speaker 1: purchased Morris Aera, they didn't really realize what a great 44 00:02:49,036 --> 00:02:51,596 Speaker 1: thing they did. So okay, so that's the forty years 45 00:02:51,636 --> 00:02:54,356 Speaker 1: ago story. What is the thing you're doing now that 46 00:02:54,476 --> 00:02:56,716 Speaker 1: forty years from now you're gonna be like, back in 47 00:02:56,836 --> 00:03:00,876 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, I was doing X. What's X? Well? 48 00:03:00,916 --> 00:03:04,516 Speaker 1: I think what X is is taken a page from 49 00:03:04,556 --> 00:03:08,596 Speaker 1: Amazon and from Lyft and from Airbnb. You don't ever 50 00:03:08,636 --> 00:03:10,516 Speaker 1: want to talk to anybody. You want to have an 51 00:03:10,516 --> 00:03:12,916 Speaker 1: app that people can do everything on and if they 52 00:03:12,956 --> 00:03:16,156 Speaker 1: can't and if they get like frustrated, you want to 53 00:03:16,156 --> 00:03:18,836 Speaker 1: have the ability for someone to ask you a question 54 00:03:19,516 --> 00:03:22,716 Speaker 1: in writing that you can get back to them and 55 00:03:23,036 --> 00:03:25,076 Speaker 1: the goal is in less than ten minutes and solve 56 00:03:25,116 --> 00:03:27,476 Speaker 1: any issue they have so that you never have to 57 00:03:27,516 --> 00:03:30,876 Speaker 1: have a call center. And that's cheaper for you than 58 00:03:30,916 --> 00:03:34,196 Speaker 1: a call center because because it's asynchronous, because you can 59 00:03:34,196 --> 00:03:38,156 Speaker 1: be talking to six people at one time. Huh. So 60 00:03:38,196 --> 00:03:40,396 Speaker 1: you have six people at one time, you can be 61 00:03:40,396 --> 00:03:42,796 Speaker 1: dealing their issues because not not you know, what's your 62 00:03:42,796 --> 00:03:45,236 Speaker 1: confirmation number? They have to go find it or whatever 63 00:03:45,636 --> 00:03:48,076 Speaker 1: that takes time. Okay, so that's a good one. So 64 00:03:48,076 --> 00:03:51,236 Speaker 1: so having people basically text instead of call, that's a 65 00:03:51,476 --> 00:03:53,956 Speaker 1: technological innovation that's going to lower your costs. What else, 66 00:03:53,996 --> 00:03:56,356 Speaker 1: what's another one, Well, it's well, it starts with the app. 67 00:03:56,476 --> 00:03:58,276 Speaker 1: You know, you have to have an app that's completely 68 00:03:58,916 --> 00:04:01,836 Speaker 1: functional so you can self help. So if we said, 69 00:04:01,956 --> 00:04:03,476 Speaker 1: you know, you want to change a flight, change your 70 00:04:03,476 --> 00:04:05,876 Speaker 1: own flight you want to. You know, if we we've 71 00:04:06,036 --> 00:04:08,916 Speaker 1: canceled flight on you because of whatever reason, you know, 72 00:04:08,956 --> 00:04:10,876 Speaker 1: we can send you the option push this button to 73 00:04:10,916 --> 00:04:12,636 Speaker 1: book on the other flight we have you on, or 74 00:04:12,676 --> 00:04:14,956 Speaker 1: push this bent to get a full refund and credit 75 00:04:14,996 --> 00:04:17,476 Speaker 1: for your next flight. It's all the self help things 76 00:04:17,516 --> 00:04:19,996 Speaker 1: where you're taking care of yourself and you don't need 77 00:04:20,076 --> 00:04:21,756 Speaker 1: to talk to one of us to do anything, and 78 00:04:22,156 --> 00:04:25,036 Speaker 1: only when you get frustrated then you actually text us. 79 00:04:25,036 --> 00:04:28,076 Speaker 1: But having a functional app that does all the stuff 80 00:04:28,116 --> 00:04:31,476 Speaker 1: that an Uber app does or an Amazon app does. Yeah, 81 00:04:31,476 --> 00:04:33,316 Speaker 1: so right, So in the same way that Amazon, say, 82 00:04:33,396 --> 00:04:35,596 Speaker 1: makes it really easy to return things. Right, So I 83 00:04:35,596 --> 00:04:37,276 Speaker 1: don't have to call if I want to return something, 84 00:04:37,356 --> 00:04:39,796 Speaker 1: I just click a couple of buttons, print out the thing. 85 00:04:39,996 --> 00:04:41,836 Speaker 1: And it's done. I don't have to call them. It's 86 00:04:41,876 --> 00:04:43,716 Speaker 1: like that. If I want to change my flight or 87 00:04:43,716 --> 00:04:46,356 Speaker 1: anything like that, an app with full functionality as much 88 00:04:46,396 --> 00:04:48,436 Speaker 1: as possible, and then we can add on to that. 89 00:04:48,516 --> 00:04:50,036 Speaker 1: And one more thing I want to mention. You know, 90 00:04:50,196 --> 00:04:53,796 Speaker 1: if you book, if you book through Expedia or you 91 00:04:53,836 --> 00:04:58,436 Speaker 1: book through one of these other online travel agencies, we 92 00:04:58,476 --> 00:05:01,796 Speaker 1: don't have your information. They keep it because they guard it. 93 00:05:02,396 --> 00:05:04,556 Speaker 1: You can't book a reservation with us unless you give 94 00:05:04,596 --> 00:05:07,036 Speaker 1: us your cell phone number or your email. You have 95 00:05:07,076 --> 00:05:09,836 Speaker 1: to give it to us. So that way, if there 96 00:05:09,916 --> 00:05:12,556 Speaker 1: is a disruption or when there's boarding time and all 97 00:05:12,556 --> 00:05:15,116 Speaker 1: that stuff, we can communicate directly with you all the time. 98 00:05:15,516 --> 00:05:19,356 Speaker 1: Interesting and usually airlines about forty or more, they don't 99 00:05:19,396 --> 00:05:21,836 Speaker 1: have that information for their customers and we have that. 100 00:05:22,396 --> 00:05:25,276 Speaker 1: So that that's another important factor that we just decide 101 00:05:25,316 --> 00:05:27,916 Speaker 1: to start. It's hard to change that once you're going, 102 00:05:28,236 --> 00:05:30,316 Speaker 1: but once you start from a clean white piece of paper, 103 00:05:30,356 --> 00:05:32,796 Speaker 1: you can do that. And so presumably that not only 104 00:05:32,836 --> 00:05:35,556 Speaker 1: allows you to whatever, text me updates about my flight, 105 00:05:35,836 --> 00:05:39,076 Speaker 1: but it also allows you to text me updates if 106 00:05:39,076 --> 00:05:41,516 Speaker 1: you have a discount on that flight in six months 107 00:05:41,636 --> 00:05:44,516 Speaker 1: or whatever. Right now, I'm in the system. Yeah, you're 108 00:05:44,556 --> 00:05:47,236 Speaker 1: in our database. We can do some data mining and 109 00:05:47,276 --> 00:05:49,556 Speaker 1: figure out, you know, what you like, what you don't like, 110 00:05:49,636 --> 00:05:52,196 Speaker 1: and make sure that we target market instead of just 111 00:05:52,276 --> 00:05:54,556 Speaker 1: blast out crap that you don't want to read. Everything's 112 00:05:54,556 --> 00:05:58,156 Speaker 1: relevant to you. So there's this there's this trade off 113 00:05:58,196 --> 00:06:02,756 Speaker 1: I've heard you describe from when you were launching jet 114 00:06:02,796 --> 00:06:06,116 Speaker 1: Blue that was super interesting to me, and I'm curious 115 00:06:06,116 --> 00:06:07,996 Speaker 1: to hear you talk about that, and then I'm curious 116 00:06:08,036 --> 00:06:11,916 Speaker 1: to learn whether there's any kind of analog in launching Breeze. 117 00:06:12,316 --> 00:06:15,676 Speaker 1: And the trade off for Jet Blue was having live 118 00:06:15,716 --> 00:06:20,996 Speaker 1: TV and not having meals. And this was a time when, ay, 119 00:06:21,116 --> 00:06:23,836 Speaker 1: you pretty much always got a meal on a long flight, 120 00:06:23,916 --> 00:06:27,516 Speaker 1: and b live TV on an airplane was like science fiction. Right, 121 00:06:27,516 --> 00:06:30,596 Speaker 1: It's twenty years ago. Netflix was DVDs in the mail. 122 00:06:31,076 --> 00:06:33,596 Speaker 1: You couldn't watch TV on your computer. So I remember 123 00:06:33,636 --> 00:06:36,636 Speaker 1: it was wild having live TV. So tell me about 124 00:06:36,716 --> 00:06:40,036 Speaker 1: launching an airline at that time that had live TV 125 00:06:40,116 --> 00:06:43,516 Speaker 1: but non meals. You know, it was a simple mathematical equation, 126 00:06:43,676 --> 00:06:45,716 Speaker 1: you know, I have It's well known that I have 127 00:06:45,836 --> 00:06:48,996 Speaker 1: add and I just get I used to hate to 128 00:06:49,036 --> 00:06:50,796 Speaker 1: travel on airplanes. Because it was hard for me to 129 00:06:50,836 --> 00:06:53,836 Speaker 1: read a book. It was hard to just sit there, 130 00:06:54,476 --> 00:06:56,676 Speaker 1: and I just wanted to be entertained. I didn't have 131 00:06:57,236 --> 00:06:59,436 Speaker 1: I didn't have a smartphone, I didn't have an iPhone, 132 00:06:59,436 --> 00:07:01,196 Speaker 1: and I was kind of going crazy at the time. 133 00:07:01,636 --> 00:07:03,276 Speaker 1: And so I was sitting in my office and I 134 00:07:03,316 --> 00:07:05,316 Speaker 1: was trying to figure out if we could have movies 135 00:07:05,756 --> 00:07:08,356 Speaker 1: in the seatbacks, and there was a couple of different 136 00:07:08,356 --> 00:07:10,636 Speaker 1: outfits that were doing that. And then you know, one 137 00:07:10,636 --> 00:07:12,836 Speaker 1: of our people walked in with this brochure and said, Hey, 138 00:07:13,036 --> 00:07:15,836 Speaker 1: there's live television on these are on these private jets. 139 00:07:16,116 --> 00:07:17,876 Speaker 1: Why don't we put that on our airplanes? And it 140 00:07:17,956 --> 00:07:21,636 Speaker 1: was just like boom, that light went on and we 141 00:07:21,676 --> 00:07:24,196 Speaker 1: talked to them and it was about a dollar a 142 00:07:24,236 --> 00:07:27,516 Speaker 1: passenger per flight, and the other guys were paying about 143 00:07:27,516 --> 00:07:31,556 Speaker 1: five bucks for mills for meals. Yeah, it's like five 144 00:07:31,596 --> 00:07:34,596 Speaker 1: bucks for mills or one buck for live TV, you know. 145 00:07:34,636 --> 00:07:36,676 Speaker 1: And I can just have baskets to snacks that cost 146 00:07:36,796 --> 00:07:39,396 Speaker 1: less than a dollar. What's going to be more impactful 147 00:07:39,436 --> 00:07:41,556 Speaker 1: with my brand new airplanes? And it just kind of 148 00:07:41,556 --> 00:07:43,956 Speaker 1: blew everybody away. It was it was something that was 149 00:07:44,076 --> 00:07:48,036 Speaker 1: so new and so exciting and it changed flying right. 150 00:07:48,076 --> 00:07:51,716 Speaker 1: It was so unexpected, especially for what was basically a 151 00:07:51,756 --> 00:07:56,996 Speaker 1: discount airline at launch, Like so you gotta move like that? Now, 152 00:07:57,156 --> 00:07:59,556 Speaker 1: what is that? But for Breeze, you know, I think 153 00:07:59,596 --> 00:08:02,356 Speaker 1: I think just getting on and flying first class for 154 00:08:02,436 --> 00:08:05,836 Speaker 1: fifty percent more than coach, having streaming, you know, internet 155 00:08:05,876 --> 00:08:09,636 Speaker 1: being served at flemingon Sandwich. So first class first class 156 00:08:09,636 --> 00:08:11,476 Speaker 1: for about how much? Like give me an example of 157 00:08:11,476 --> 00:08:14,996 Speaker 1: a first class fair on a route. Well, because the 158 00:08:15,036 --> 00:08:17,396 Speaker 1: configuration the airplane, we only have to get fifty percent 159 00:08:17,476 --> 00:08:19,276 Speaker 1: more for the ticket. So if we have a ticket 160 00:08:19,316 --> 00:08:21,276 Speaker 1: for two hundred bucks, for an next one hundred dollars, 161 00:08:21,316 --> 00:08:23,356 Speaker 1: you can go first class. So people right now are 162 00:08:23,396 --> 00:08:26,316 Speaker 1: flying what's a transcontinental route you have going? Right now? 163 00:08:27,036 --> 00:08:29,756 Speaker 1: We fly to Charleston, San Francisco. So are people right 164 00:08:29,836 --> 00:08:32,676 Speaker 1: now flying from Charleston to San Francisco first class for 165 00:08:32,796 --> 00:08:35,396 Speaker 1: three hundred dollars? Yeah, three hundred bucks each way? Okay, 166 00:08:35,396 --> 00:08:38,476 Speaker 1: six hundred bucks round trip? Still very good. I will 167 00:08:38,476 --> 00:08:41,396 Speaker 1: admit I'm going to California and I paid six hundred 168 00:08:41,436 --> 00:08:44,556 Speaker 1: bucks more to fly coach, So I find that a 169 00:08:44,636 --> 00:08:47,716 Speaker 1: compelling offer. So the cheap, cheap, relatively speaking, first class 170 00:08:47,756 --> 00:08:49,596 Speaker 1: ticket is a big move. How do you do that? 171 00:08:49,796 --> 00:08:51,516 Speaker 1: How do you get the cost down so you can 172 00:08:51,516 --> 00:08:53,956 Speaker 1: do that? Well, we have you know, fuel fishing airplanes 173 00:08:53,996 --> 00:08:57,396 Speaker 1: that are perceied, the most fuel fishing airplanes in the sky, 174 00:08:58,316 --> 00:09:01,596 Speaker 1: you know, having less overhead and less not thousands of 175 00:09:01,636 --> 00:09:04,956 Speaker 1: IT people, but you know, tens of IT people, and 176 00:09:05,076 --> 00:09:07,996 Speaker 1: just trying to you know, be efficient and use technology 177 00:09:08,036 --> 00:09:10,756 Speaker 1: every step of the way. So is the place where 178 00:09:11,116 --> 00:09:15,156 Speaker 1: your costs are lower than other airlines? Not so much 179 00:09:15,996 --> 00:09:19,196 Speaker 1: the on the plane part, not so much the pilots 180 00:09:19,236 --> 00:09:22,236 Speaker 1: and the flight attendants, but rather having fewer IT people, 181 00:09:22,356 --> 00:09:25,636 Speaker 1: fewer fewer customer service people. That's where you're hoping to 182 00:09:25,996 --> 00:09:29,716 Speaker 1: really drive down costs. Yes, but it's really technology that 183 00:09:30,196 --> 00:09:32,676 Speaker 1: the drives all that. And if you start with a clean, 184 00:09:32,756 --> 00:09:34,636 Speaker 1: right sheet of paper, it's just a lot easier to 185 00:09:34,676 --> 00:09:37,036 Speaker 1: do that than if you stuck with a bunch of 186 00:09:37,076 --> 00:09:42,036 Speaker 1: legacy systems. I want to talk about routes now. I 187 00:09:42,076 --> 00:09:44,156 Speaker 1: feel like routes are like kind of part of the 188 00:09:44,196 --> 00:09:47,276 Speaker 1: like fun inside baseball of how what's actually going on 189 00:09:47,356 --> 00:09:49,756 Speaker 1: with airlines? You know, we get dazzled by a TV 190 00:09:49,876 --> 00:09:52,156 Speaker 1: in the seats, but there's these weird route choices that 191 00:09:52,156 --> 00:09:54,996 Speaker 1: seem to make a big difference. That's another one where 192 00:09:54,996 --> 00:09:57,476 Speaker 1: maybe it's worth just briefly to talk about Jet Blue 193 00:09:57,516 --> 00:10:00,116 Speaker 1: because I feel like that was also clearly one of 194 00:10:00,156 --> 00:10:02,996 Speaker 1: the big moves there, and in particular was the first 195 00:10:03,116 --> 00:10:08,156 Speaker 1: route at Jet Blue flying out at JFK to Fort Lauderdale. 196 00:10:08,516 --> 00:10:11,876 Speaker 1: Like that, it was a clever strategic move, right, tell 197 00:10:11,876 --> 00:10:15,316 Speaker 1: me about that choice. Well, you know, JEK was interesting 198 00:10:15,356 --> 00:10:18,396 Speaker 1: because jeff K was pretty much an abandoned airport. So 199 00:10:18,436 --> 00:10:20,996 Speaker 1: you'd you'd go JFK to LA, you'd go to London 200 00:10:21,036 --> 00:10:23,676 Speaker 1: and Paris, all around the world, but you wouldn't fly 201 00:10:23,876 --> 00:10:27,196 Speaker 1: to Miami from JFK. I like, why not? It was 202 00:10:27,236 --> 00:10:29,516 Speaker 1: funny because when I was running, I was raising money 203 00:10:29,516 --> 00:10:32,476 Speaker 1: for jeff Blue in New York City. I'd meet these 204 00:10:32,516 --> 00:10:34,676 Speaker 1: people and say and they'd say, I live in Manhattan. 205 00:10:34,676 --> 00:10:36,196 Speaker 1: I'm never going to go to jeff K to go 206 00:10:36,276 --> 00:10:38,956 Speaker 1: to Florida because it's so much farther than LaGuardia because 207 00:10:38,956 --> 00:10:41,156 Speaker 1: it's an hour instead of a half hour. Right, LaGuardia 208 00:10:41,196 --> 00:10:42,996 Speaker 1: is a half hour at jfk' is an hour hour 209 00:10:43,036 --> 00:10:44,356 Speaker 1: and a half. Yeah, it depends on where you live 210 00:10:44,396 --> 00:10:46,916 Speaker 1: in Manhattan. But it was it's eight miles. Well, hey, 211 00:10:46,916 --> 00:10:49,956 Speaker 1: miles in New York City could be a lot miles. Yeah, yeah, 212 00:10:49,956 --> 00:10:52,396 Speaker 1: it could be a lot. So I said, I don't 213 00:10:52,436 --> 00:10:55,756 Speaker 1: care because people leave from their homes. And I got 214 00:10:55,796 --> 00:10:58,716 Speaker 1: five million people that live in Queens and Brooklyn and 215 00:10:58,796 --> 00:11:02,716 Speaker 1: Long Island that are closer or as close as LaGuardia, 216 00:11:02,756 --> 00:11:04,476 Speaker 1: and I'll take care of those people. I don't need 217 00:11:04,516 --> 00:11:07,636 Speaker 1: anyone from Manhattan. But you know, obviously, when we had 218 00:11:07,676 --> 00:11:10,436 Speaker 1: the light TVs and leather seats, Manhattan Night's spent that 219 00:11:10,516 --> 00:11:13,516 Speaker 1: extra thirty minutes coming out to JFK. So was the 220 00:11:13,636 --> 00:11:17,596 Speaker 1: idea that it was cheaper to get a gate at 221 00:11:17,676 --> 00:11:20,356 Speaker 1: JFK in the middle of the day than it was 222 00:11:20,356 --> 00:11:22,316 Speaker 1: at LaGuardia because nobody was flying out of there then, 223 00:11:22,356 --> 00:11:25,276 Speaker 1: I mean, was that the core sort of thing. Well, 224 00:11:25,356 --> 00:11:27,556 Speaker 1: LaGuardia was slow controlled, so we couldn't fly to there 225 00:11:27,556 --> 00:11:29,796 Speaker 1: if we wanted to at the time. So it was 226 00:11:29,836 --> 00:11:33,476 Speaker 1: all full. So it's okay, all full. The national growth 227 00:11:33,516 --> 00:11:37,876 Speaker 1: and air traffic was exponentially more than New York was. 228 00:11:37,996 --> 00:11:40,156 Speaker 1: New York was being held down by really high fares 229 00:11:40,236 --> 00:11:42,996 Speaker 1: because nobody was adding service out of JFK, and that 230 00:11:43,076 --> 00:11:45,156 Speaker 1: airport was pretty well during the day, you could shoot 231 00:11:45,156 --> 00:11:47,236 Speaker 1: a cannon down the runway and not hit anything, So 232 00:11:47,956 --> 00:11:52,436 Speaker 1: you know that was available, and it was less delayed 233 00:11:52,436 --> 00:11:54,676 Speaker 1: flights at the time, and all of that stuff that 234 00:11:54,716 --> 00:11:57,156 Speaker 1: made it such a compelling story, not to mention all 235 00:11:57,196 --> 00:12:00,676 Speaker 1: the people that lived closer to JFK than lived closer 236 00:12:00,716 --> 00:12:05,796 Speaker 1: to LaGuardia. Yeah, so it's really Manhattan centric bias that 237 00:12:05,836 --> 00:12:09,396 Speaker 1: you were overcoming. That was the real move there. Yeah, well, 238 00:12:09,756 --> 00:12:12,156 Speaker 1: I notice. So, so let's talk about Breeze now and 239 00:12:12,196 --> 00:12:15,156 Speaker 1: the routes you've chosen for Breeze. Right, in terms of 240 00:12:15,156 --> 00:12:19,116 Speaker 1: New York where I live. I noticed you fly into Westchester, 241 00:12:19,556 --> 00:12:21,916 Speaker 1: which is the suburbs north of New York, and I Slip, 242 00:12:21,956 --> 00:12:23,916 Speaker 1: which is basically the suburbs east of New York. But 243 00:12:23,916 --> 00:12:26,436 Speaker 1: you don't fly into Laguardi or JFK or New Work. 244 00:12:26,956 --> 00:12:30,876 Speaker 1: Your inaugural flight was Tampa, Florida to Charleston, South Carolina, 245 00:12:30,956 --> 00:12:35,156 Speaker 1: which is unexpected to me. So, like, tell me what's 246 00:12:35,156 --> 00:12:37,116 Speaker 1: going on, Well, like, tell me about the route strategy 247 00:12:37,196 --> 00:12:41,156 Speaker 1: for Breeze. Well, in so at long fact that every 248 00:12:41,196 --> 00:12:44,516 Speaker 1: airline has to put all of their data into and 249 00:12:44,596 --> 00:12:46,836 Speaker 1: send it to the DOT, and the Dot puts it 250 00:12:46,876 --> 00:12:49,836 Speaker 1: in a database to the Department of Transportation Transportation, so 251 00:12:49,876 --> 00:12:55,476 Speaker 1: we know who flies between what routes an annual basis quarterly, 252 00:12:56,236 --> 00:12:58,756 Speaker 1: and what they paid or they paid for their ticket. 253 00:12:58,876 --> 00:13:02,836 Speaker 1: Oh great, So it's like complete competitive intelligence is available 254 00:13:02,876 --> 00:13:05,196 Speaker 1: to anybody wants to mind it. So we look at 255 00:13:05,236 --> 00:13:10,156 Speaker 1: it and and we say, what's the largest market from Richmond, GA. 256 00:13:10,276 --> 00:13:13,516 Speaker 1: That's an unserved NonStop and what's the average person paying? 257 00:13:13,916 --> 00:13:16,396 Speaker 1: And it was San Francisco. So all these people were 258 00:13:16,396 --> 00:13:20,156 Speaker 1: flying whatever Richmond to Salt Lake City to San Francisco, 259 00:13:20,276 --> 00:13:23,596 Speaker 1: or Richmond to Charlotte to San Francisco. But there was 260 00:13:23,716 --> 00:13:27,796 Speaker 1: no direct flight, Yes, no direct flights. And so we 261 00:13:27,876 --> 00:13:29,996 Speaker 1: have our own little special sauce that we use in 262 00:13:30,036 --> 00:13:33,236 Speaker 1: our little formula that if we say, if we can 263 00:13:33,276 --> 00:13:35,756 Speaker 1: take someone NonStop, if we can, you know, the fair 264 00:13:35,916 --> 00:13:39,276 Speaker 1: is down thirty percent and we go NonStop, we can 265 00:13:39,436 --> 00:13:41,516 Speaker 1: x times the size of the market. We can make 266 00:13:41,516 --> 00:13:44,516 Speaker 1: it four times bigger, five times biggers, in some cases 267 00:13:44,556 --> 00:13:47,116 Speaker 1: twenty times bigger. So you're saying, if you make it 268 00:13:47,236 --> 00:13:51,076 Speaker 1: cheaper because you're cheaper and more convenient because it's NonStop, 269 00:13:51,236 --> 00:13:55,196 Speaker 1: lots more people will do it. Yes, we'll do it. 270 00:13:55,236 --> 00:13:57,516 Speaker 1: And it's more convenient and they just go more often. 271 00:13:58,156 --> 00:14:01,276 Speaker 1: And so I mean the core move you're making is 272 00:14:01,316 --> 00:14:07,396 Speaker 1: flying NonStop out of and often between kind of second 273 00:14:07,396 --> 00:14:10,436 Speaker 1: tier cities market, right, I mean that's the core thin 274 00:14:10,516 --> 00:14:14,476 Speaker 1: you're doing, flying between cities that don't have NonStop service basically, 275 00:14:14,556 --> 00:14:17,916 Speaker 1: and it you know, those are would more likely be 276 00:14:17,956 --> 00:14:22,396 Speaker 1: a secondary market. And so is this I mean, why 277 00:14:22,476 --> 00:14:25,396 Speaker 1: wasn't anybody doing this before? Like it seems like very 278 00:14:25,436 --> 00:14:27,676 Speaker 1: straightforward when you put it that way, like there's just 279 00:14:27,756 --> 00:14:29,876 Speaker 1: money on the table, is it. Well, if you don't 280 00:14:29,956 --> 00:14:31,916 Speaker 1: have to do it and you can make people drive 281 00:14:31,916 --> 00:14:35,556 Speaker 1: down to JFK, you know, from Connecticut where I lived, 282 00:14:35,676 --> 00:14:37,716 Speaker 1: or you can make them drive down and you have 283 00:14:37,756 --> 00:14:39,516 Speaker 1: to do it, why do it? You know it just 284 00:14:39,556 --> 00:14:42,516 Speaker 1: splits up your market? Is some part of this? Like 285 00:14:43,036 --> 00:14:45,956 Speaker 1: it seems like there's a pendulum. There's been this pendulum 286 00:14:46,076 --> 00:14:49,956 Speaker 1: in American commercial air over the last I don't know, 287 00:14:49,996 --> 00:14:52,116 Speaker 1: twenty years or something, where first there was this period 288 00:14:52,116 --> 00:14:56,396 Speaker 1: of consolidation where airlines were going bankrupt getting acquired, there 289 00:14:56,436 --> 00:14:59,196 Speaker 1: was less and less competition, and now it seems like 290 00:14:59,196 --> 00:15:00,876 Speaker 1: we're going back the other way. There are lots of 291 00:15:00,916 --> 00:15:03,076 Speaker 1: new airlines doing things like you're doing. I mean, is 292 00:15:03,116 --> 00:15:06,596 Speaker 1: that is this that story? Is this like you know, 293 00:15:06,836 --> 00:15:09,556 Speaker 1: sort of the market working as intended, where people go 294 00:15:09,676 --> 00:15:11,676 Speaker 1: to business and there's opportunity, and then you come and 295 00:15:11,716 --> 00:15:13,796 Speaker 1: start an airline and be like, oh, there's an opportunity 296 00:15:13,796 --> 00:15:16,076 Speaker 1: to fly from Westchester to Las Vegas. I mean, it's 297 00:15:16,116 --> 00:15:18,436 Speaker 1: that a way of framing the story. I think it's 298 00:15:18,516 --> 00:15:22,036 Speaker 1: more that, you know, kind of as the airlines got 299 00:15:24,676 --> 00:15:27,676 Speaker 1: higher costs, and you know, after their bankrupt season, then 300 00:15:27,676 --> 00:15:31,596 Speaker 1: they started building costs back up again. They started saying, well, 301 00:15:31,636 --> 00:15:33,316 Speaker 1: we can make a lot more money if we just 302 00:15:33,476 --> 00:15:37,636 Speaker 1: fly to our hubs. So if we can take everyone 303 00:15:37,636 --> 00:15:39,916 Speaker 1: to our hubs and we can connect them, and if 304 00:15:39,916 --> 00:15:42,116 Speaker 1: we can go up to a two hundred seed air 305 00:15:42,156 --> 00:15:44,356 Speaker 1: plane instead of one hundred and thirty seed airplane, that 306 00:15:44,436 --> 00:15:48,516 Speaker 1: works better. And you know what's happening today with the 307 00:15:49,036 --> 00:15:53,356 Speaker 1: pilot shortage. You know, regional airlines can't hire pilots, enough 308 00:15:53,396 --> 00:15:56,276 Speaker 1: pilots stuff, And there's about three hundred of those airplanes 309 00:15:56,876 --> 00:16:01,996 Speaker 1: that are grounded. So cities like Richmond and Charleston and 310 00:16:02,156 --> 00:16:04,356 Speaker 1: used to always have these little spokes that would go 311 00:16:04,436 --> 00:16:06,796 Speaker 1: to the hubs. A lot of those are not they're 312 00:16:06,836 --> 00:16:09,796 Speaker 1: canceling service to those cities. So it's a combination of 313 00:16:09,796 --> 00:16:11,756 Speaker 1: the focus on the hubs not being able to fly 314 00:16:11,796 --> 00:16:16,356 Speaker 1: the regional flights that has really created a really great 315 00:16:16,356 --> 00:16:23,436 Speaker 1: opportunity for us. In a minute, speaking of the pilot shortage, 316 00:16:23,836 --> 00:16:26,716 Speaker 1: what's going on with air travel this summer? Why is 317 00:16:26,756 --> 00:16:29,516 Speaker 1: everybody suddenly warning us that flying is just going to 318 00:16:29,556 --> 00:16:38,916 Speaker 1: be one problem after another. That's the end of the ads. 319 00:16:39,356 --> 00:16:42,196 Speaker 1: Now we're going back to the show. Let's talk about 320 00:16:42,316 --> 00:16:45,476 Speaker 1: the pilot shortage and staffing more generally. I know you 321 00:16:47,316 --> 00:16:50,956 Speaker 1: had to postpone launching some new routes. It seemed like 322 00:16:51,036 --> 00:16:53,956 Speaker 1: kind of at the last minute recently. Is that partly 323 00:16:53,996 --> 00:16:56,596 Speaker 1: because you can't hire enough people fast enough. No, it 324 00:16:57,076 --> 00:16:59,396 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with that. We have plenty of 325 00:16:59,436 --> 00:17:03,396 Speaker 1: people that we've hired, and it was more an issue 326 00:17:03,396 --> 00:17:05,996 Speaker 1: of training and had a little bit to do with 327 00:17:06,036 --> 00:17:10,036 Speaker 1: the FAA. We had a certification process for our new 328 00:17:10,076 --> 00:17:13,436 Speaker 1: aircraft that was supposed to take six months. It's always 329 00:17:13,476 --> 00:17:16,356 Speaker 1: taking six months. This took eight months, you know, because 330 00:17:16,396 --> 00:17:18,756 Speaker 1: of COVID and all that. You know, the staffing issues 331 00:17:18,956 --> 00:17:21,716 Speaker 1: at the FAA. So we ran into that two month 332 00:17:21,716 --> 00:17:24,836 Speaker 1: delay and we finally just ran out of runway, had 333 00:17:24,876 --> 00:17:26,876 Speaker 1: to push it back and now we're we're we're in 334 00:17:26,916 --> 00:17:28,996 Speaker 1: good shape now. But you know, it was painful, and 335 00:17:29,676 --> 00:17:31,876 Speaker 1: you know it's it's never gonna happen again, for sure. 336 00:17:32,156 --> 00:17:35,236 Speaker 1: It's just for us. It's a training pipeline. And now 337 00:17:35,836 --> 00:17:38,516 Speaker 1: we got a lot more analytics, and we brought in 338 00:17:38,556 --> 00:17:41,076 Speaker 1: a whole new team, a new CEO, a new president, 339 00:17:41,516 --> 00:17:44,876 Speaker 1: you know, new chief people officer, and they're you know, 340 00:17:45,276 --> 00:17:47,196 Speaker 1: doing a heck of a lot better. So did you 341 00:17:47,236 --> 00:17:50,756 Speaker 1: just reorganize the company a year after you started it? Yeah? Uh? 342 00:17:50,796 --> 00:17:53,476 Speaker 1: What went wrong? You know, because you know, we weren't 343 00:17:53,476 --> 00:17:56,676 Speaker 1: doing a good enough job of you know, anticipating and 344 00:17:56,916 --> 00:17:59,676 Speaker 1: doing the analytics and making sure that you know, the 345 00:17:59,716 --> 00:18:03,876 Speaker 1: communication between operations and our commercial side, making sure that 346 00:18:03,916 --> 00:18:06,316 Speaker 1: it was just you know, flawless. And you know, we 347 00:18:06,356 --> 00:18:08,996 Speaker 1: just can't disappoint our guests anymore. You know, we have 348 00:18:09,156 --> 00:18:11,196 Speaker 1: to run. We have to be flawless on everything we 349 00:18:11,236 --> 00:18:14,036 Speaker 1: can control. There's enough that we can't control, but we 350 00:18:14,076 --> 00:18:15,916 Speaker 1: need to be perfect on on what we can't control. 351 00:18:16,276 --> 00:18:19,236 Speaker 1: There is it happened in this broader context, right, everybody's saying, 352 00:18:19,316 --> 00:18:20,996 Speaker 1: like if you could not fly the summer, don't fly 353 00:18:21,036 --> 00:18:23,756 Speaker 1: this summer and there's too many people and not enough pilots. 354 00:18:23,876 --> 00:18:26,196 Speaker 1: Is that not the case for you? Do you think 355 00:18:26,196 --> 00:18:28,556 Speaker 1: that's not the case for anybody? Like, help me understand 356 00:18:28,556 --> 00:18:30,676 Speaker 1: that sort of broader context of the way people are 357 00:18:30,756 --> 00:18:32,916 Speaker 1: talking about air travel right now. I don't ever remember 358 00:18:32,956 --> 00:18:35,316 Speaker 1: people talking about it quite like they are right now. Well, 359 00:18:35,476 --> 00:18:37,636 Speaker 1: you know, I think COVID really put a dent in 360 00:18:37,676 --> 00:18:40,836 Speaker 1: the in the industry from a training perspective, because the 361 00:18:40,876 --> 00:18:43,476 Speaker 1: first thing that happened was, you know, the airline's got 362 00:18:43,476 --> 00:18:46,516 Speaker 1: paid fifty three billion dollars, you know, to kind of 363 00:18:46,636 --> 00:18:49,796 Speaker 1: keep people on staff. But what they decided to do 364 00:18:50,356 --> 00:18:53,196 Speaker 1: was to use some of that money to retire pilots, 365 00:18:53,236 --> 00:18:57,036 Speaker 1: the most expensive pilots. So there was about seven thousand 366 00:18:57,076 --> 00:19:01,396 Speaker 1: pilots that left. So they left the industry seven thousand. 367 00:19:01,436 --> 00:19:03,596 Speaker 1: Give me, I don't have any context. What's the denominator 368 00:19:03,836 --> 00:19:05,476 Speaker 1: to how many or how do I parse that number? 369 00:19:05,516 --> 00:19:08,476 Speaker 1: I would guess probably at the big airlines, you know, 370 00:19:08,516 --> 00:19:12,116 Speaker 1: fifty and pilots or less. So it was a big 371 00:19:12,196 --> 00:19:15,156 Speaker 1: chunk of what they had. But it created this trickle 372 00:19:15,196 --> 00:19:18,876 Speaker 1: that effect because you know, when you have to train someone, 373 00:19:18,916 --> 00:19:21,196 Speaker 1: it takes two months to train someone for a new airplane, 374 00:19:21,236 --> 00:19:23,996 Speaker 1: and then they have this initial operating experience and if 375 00:19:24,036 --> 00:19:26,596 Speaker 1: you've got five or six aircraft types, you're you're really 376 00:19:26,596 --> 00:19:29,156 Speaker 1: just doing a lot of training to backfield for those 377 00:19:29,196 --> 00:19:32,316 Speaker 1: seven thousand and then you pull from your regional airlines, 378 00:19:32,356 --> 00:19:34,156 Speaker 1: you call, you know, you go to SkyWest and you 379 00:19:34,196 --> 00:19:38,076 Speaker 1: go to Republican Higher, all their pilots away and then 380 00:19:38,116 --> 00:19:40,876 Speaker 1: you put them in and everyone's changing airplanes and the 381 00:19:40,876 --> 00:19:44,876 Speaker 1: whole process is just is very time consuming. And you know, 382 00:19:44,956 --> 00:19:48,516 Speaker 1: they just saw the demand coming back and put flights 383 00:19:48,556 --> 00:19:52,116 Speaker 1: on as we did. And you know, the training is 384 00:19:52,156 --> 00:19:55,516 Speaker 1: really what was the hiccup? The training is get that 385 00:19:55,676 --> 00:19:59,476 Speaker 1: in a similar way to getting you, it's getting everybody. Yeah, 386 00:19:59,476 --> 00:20:01,756 Speaker 1: are there things you've tried to figure out either at 387 00:20:01,796 --> 00:20:04,676 Speaker 1: Breeze or at previous airlines you've started or run that 388 00:20:04,716 --> 00:20:07,076 Speaker 1: you haven't figured out yet that you're still kind of 389 00:20:07,076 --> 00:20:09,436 Speaker 1: working on. Is there some sort of you know, problem 390 00:20:09,436 --> 00:20:11,196 Speaker 1: you're still trying to solve that you haven't quite got 391 00:20:11,276 --> 00:20:13,356 Speaker 1: right yet that you that you're returning to or you 392 00:20:13,396 --> 00:20:18,436 Speaker 1: want to return to. I think you know the challenges 393 00:20:18,516 --> 00:20:20,836 Speaker 1: you've got, and I'm not I haven't looked at it recently. 394 00:20:20,876 --> 00:20:23,516 Speaker 1: But you have a company like Priceline that has booking 395 00:20:23,596 --> 00:20:25,916 Speaker 1: dot Com and they, you know, at one time they 396 00:20:25,916 --> 00:20:28,556 Speaker 1: were worth one hundred billion dollars. You go on to 397 00:20:28,596 --> 00:20:31,836 Speaker 1: book a hotel and they're worth more than all the 398 00:20:31,836 --> 00:20:34,396 Speaker 1: airlines combine. If you add them all up, they're worth 399 00:20:34,436 --> 00:20:37,556 Speaker 1: more than one company. So well, airlines are famously a 400 00:20:37,596 --> 00:20:40,476 Speaker 1: really bad business, right like you got to you gotta 401 00:20:40,476 --> 00:20:42,396 Speaker 1: pay for the planes, you got to buy gas, you 402 00:20:42,476 --> 00:20:46,516 Speaker 1: got all this regulation, like it's a hard business. It is, 403 00:20:46,636 --> 00:20:49,716 Speaker 1: But nobody books a hotel before they book an airline ticket. 404 00:20:50,196 --> 00:20:53,316 Speaker 1: They always book the airline ticket first, and so there's 405 00:20:53,316 --> 00:20:57,116 Speaker 1: no reason why we can't put that together using automation 406 00:20:57,676 --> 00:21:00,076 Speaker 1: to be able to give them everything and do it 407 00:21:00,316 --> 00:21:03,396 Speaker 1: better than can be done if you alocrt it and 408 00:21:03,436 --> 00:21:05,316 Speaker 1: pe smell it. So I think that's kind of the 409 00:21:05,316 --> 00:21:07,596 Speaker 1: holy grill of being able to kind of put a 410 00:21:07,636 --> 00:21:10,836 Speaker 1: concert ticket with a rental car or a transportation in 411 00:21:10,916 --> 00:21:14,196 Speaker 1: a hotel, but doing it through automation, not the old 412 00:21:14,236 --> 00:21:17,196 Speaker 1: tour operator style, but something where you can you know, 413 00:21:17,276 --> 00:21:20,116 Speaker 1: create that and do it because I think being able 414 00:21:20,116 --> 00:21:23,676 Speaker 1: to profit from that trip all the way through it 415 00:21:23,716 --> 00:21:26,316 Speaker 1: as opposed to just the airfare. I think that's really 416 00:21:26,796 --> 00:21:28,596 Speaker 1: kind of where we need to be. Yeah, I mean 417 00:21:28,596 --> 00:21:31,156 Speaker 1: it's like you're building the business that's most essential, but 418 00:21:31,276 --> 00:21:34,636 Speaker 1: the least profitable piece of the trip, right exactly, right, 419 00:21:34,916 --> 00:21:36,916 Speaker 1: So we you know, we got to do we got 420 00:21:36,916 --> 00:21:38,516 Speaker 1: to do better at that, and we have our database 421 00:21:38,516 --> 00:21:41,436 Speaker 1: of people. So I'm trying to think, is there a 422 00:21:41,476 --> 00:21:45,196 Speaker 1: model like who's come closest to that? Well, there's package 423 00:21:45,196 --> 00:21:49,116 Speaker 1: companies that's you know, sell packages. But a pure ala cart, 424 00:21:49,236 --> 00:21:51,636 Speaker 1: you pluy ala cart where you can just go click, click, click, click, 425 00:21:51,756 --> 00:21:53,316 Speaker 1: this is what you want and you change the click 426 00:21:53,396 --> 00:21:55,116 Speaker 1: and it changes the amount and you click click click, 427 00:21:55,476 --> 00:21:58,036 Speaker 1: you know, you go three star, four star, five star. Yeah, 428 00:21:58,036 --> 00:22:00,196 Speaker 1: but now you're just back to kayak or something, right, Like, 429 00:22:00,236 --> 00:22:02,516 Speaker 1: it's not obvious why the airline should be at the 430 00:22:02,556 --> 00:22:05,596 Speaker 1: center of that. Well, it's because we're if without us, 431 00:22:05,636 --> 00:22:08,716 Speaker 1: nothing happens sort of, But like why should it be 432 00:22:08,756 --> 00:22:11,476 Speaker 1: that the air airline is fixed and the hotel is variable? 433 00:22:11,516 --> 00:22:14,716 Speaker 1: Like why not have them all be variable? Right? In Brazil? 434 00:22:15,316 --> 00:22:16,956 Speaker 1: You know, taking my airline Brazil, I have the largest 435 00:22:16,956 --> 00:22:20,876 Speaker 1: airline in Brazil. It's called a Zool And I was pushing. 436 00:22:21,236 --> 00:22:23,436 Speaker 1: I hired all these people, the were airline people to 437 00:22:23,556 --> 00:22:26,116 Speaker 1: help me start the airline. I started as a package 438 00:22:26,156 --> 00:22:28,476 Speaker 1: tour operator. That's how I started way back. So I'm 439 00:22:28,476 --> 00:22:31,196 Speaker 1: pushing them, pushing them, pushing them, pushing them. We got 440 00:22:31,196 --> 00:22:33,596 Speaker 1: to do this, we got to do this, and we'll 441 00:22:33,676 --> 00:22:35,876 Speaker 1: do a lot of business traffic down there. So Saturdays 442 00:22:35,876 --> 00:22:38,556 Speaker 1: we have a bunch of airplanes laying around, not doing anything, 443 00:22:38,556 --> 00:22:41,116 Speaker 1: and Sunday mornings we don't fly. And I said, it's perfect. 444 00:22:41,116 --> 00:22:43,716 Speaker 1: We got these planes laying around. And so it took 445 00:22:43,836 --> 00:22:47,636 Speaker 1: years and it took a lot of work. But today 446 00:22:47,876 --> 00:22:51,516 Speaker 1: we fly on the weekends. We have like two hundred 447 00:22:51,516 --> 00:22:53,636 Speaker 1: and fifty flights that take off on Saturday morning and 448 00:22:53,676 --> 00:22:56,916 Speaker 1: go between areas out to these leisure destinations for a 449 00:22:56,956 --> 00:22:59,516 Speaker 1: week's stay that we don't fly to during the week 450 00:22:59,876 --> 00:23:03,196 Speaker 1: and we're utilizing those airplanes. And that is a four 451 00:23:03,276 --> 00:23:06,236 Speaker 1: hundred million dollar business that we have. So it's it's 452 00:23:06,596 --> 00:23:09,596 Speaker 1: you know, and it's very profitable because we have the hotels, 453 00:23:09,636 --> 00:23:11,876 Speaker 1: we have the airfare, we have all that. So people 454 00:23:11,876 --> 00:23:14,396 Speaker 1: in Brazil are more accustomed to buying those types of 455 00:23:14,436 --> 00:23:16,756 Speaker 1: packages than they are in the US. But you know, 456 00:23:16,956 --> 00:23:20,636 Speaker 1: it's it's an idea that you know, I think we 457 00:23:20,676 --> 00:23:22,836 Speaker 1: could use a lot of that up here. And even 458 00:23:22,916 --> 00:23:24,876 Speaker 1: today we don't flyer planes a lot on Saturday, so 459 00:23:24,996 --> 00:23:26,876 Speaker 1: we could do the same type of flying to Camcoon 460 00:23:26,956 --> 00:23:30,196 Speaker 1: or something. You started off as doing package tours when 461 00:23:30,196 --> 00:23:32,516 Speaker 1: you are basically a kid, right when you were in 462 00:23:32,556 --> 00:23:34,516 Speaker 1: your early twenties, and then you went on started all 463 00:23:34,556 --> 00:23:38,596 Speaker 1: these airlines worth lots of money, and that did interesting things, 464 00:23:38,596 --> 00:23:40,316 Speaker 1: and basically it sounds like you're just trying to get 465 00:23:40,316 --> 00:23:43,396 Speaker 1: back to booking package tours again. That's right. I mean, 466 00:23:43,556 --> 00:23:46,196 Speaker 1: airline people don't think that way. They don't think about 467 00:23:46,236 --> 00:23:48,836 Speaker 1: the whole revenue Pitcher. It's just not what they do. 468 00:23:48,876 --> 00:23:51,676 Speaker 1: They think about operating an airline and choosing a route 469 00:23:51,676 --> 00:23:54,996 Speaker 1: and pricing the route and maintaining the airplanes and training 470 00:23:54,996 --> 00:23:57,716 Speaker 1: the pilots, and it's like, well, what about making money 471 00:23:57,756 --> 00:23:59,916 Speaker 1: and all this other stuff. We're just busy doing this. 472 00:23:59,996 --> 00:24:02,796 Speaker 1: You know, you have to kind of think on a 473 00:24:02,836 --> 00:24:04,516 Speaker 1: different plane to be able to pull that off and 474 00:24:04,556 --> 00:24:07,276 Speaker 1: even work guildea of it too. You know, we had 475 00:24:07,396 --> 00:24:09,996 Speaker 1: anticipated doing that, but we're so folks on what we're doing. 476 00:24:10,076 --> 00:24:14,556 Speaker 1: We haven't done it ourselves. We'll be back in a 477 00:24:14,556 --> 00:24:22,476 Speaker 1: minute with the Lightning round. Now, let's get back to 478 00:24:22,476 --> 00:24:24,996 Speaker 1: the show. I want to ask you just a few 479 00:24:25,716 --> 00:24:30,556 Speaker 1: quick lightning round questions to close. What's one piece of 480 00:24:30,596 --> 00:24:33,316 Speaker 1: advice you'd give to someone trying to solve a hard problem? 481 00:24:34,076 --> 00:24:37,956 Speaker 1: Simplify it. My team is always like, it's not that simple. 482 00:24:38,116 --> 00:24:39,876 Speaker 1: I mean, why isn't it proved to me it's not 483 00:24:39,916 --> 00:24:43,436 Speaker 1: that simple. I think sometimes it looks harder than it is, 484 00:24:43,476 --> 00:24:46,076 Speaker 1: but you have to put some creativity in it, and 485 00:24:46,116 --> 00:24:47,956 Speaker 1: that's kind of my I think gift is to be 486 00:24:47,996 --> 00:24:50,556 Speaker 1: able to look at really complicated things and simplify it. 487 00:24:50,716 --> 00:24:52,476 Speaker 1: How long before departs your time do you get to 488 00:24:52,516 --> 00:24:55,996 Speaker 1: the airport? My wife checks a bag, so we always 489 00:24:55,996 --> 00:24:58,156 Speaker 1: try and get there at least an hour before because 490 00:24:58,156 --> 00:25:00,116 Speaker 1: I don't want to get cut off on the checking 491 00:25:00,156 --> 00:25:03,196 Speaker 1: the bag thing. If I didn't, it would be less 492 00:25:03,196 --> 00:25:05,516 Speaker 1: than an hour. I had this, I always have this 493 00:25:05,596 --> 00:25:08,276 Speaker 1: saying that if you don't miss a flight every now 494 00:25:08,276 --> 00:25:11,476 Speaker 1: and then, you spend too much time in airports. So 495 00:25:11,636 --> 00:25:15,076 Speaker 1: you've been fired twice that I'm aware of, And I'm curious, 496 00:25:15,596 --> 00:25:19,636 Speaker 1: what's your advice for you know, the most important things 497 00:25:19,676 --> 00:25:23,636 Speaker 1: say someone should do when they get fired, they should 498 00:25:24,196 --> 00:25:26,956 Speaker 1: look at it as an opportunity and say, okay, what 499 00:25:27,076 --> 00:25:29,116 Speaker 1: can I create? And when I got fired from Southwest, 500 00:25:29,156 --> 00:25:32,236 Speaker 1: I created jet Blue. When I got demoted from the 501 00:25:32,276 --> 00:25:35,716 Speaker 1: CEO to the chairman at JEB Blue, I went and 502 00:25:35,756 --> 00:25:37,676 Speaker 1: started at Zul and a Zul is the most important 503 00:25:37,676 --> 00:25:40,676 Speaker 1: thing I've ever done. Really. We fly eighty thousand people 504 00:25:40,716 --> 00:25:43,276 Speaker 1: a day, and we have a logistics company that's on 505 00:25:43,316 --> 00:25:46,436 Speaker 1: par with FedEx or ups in Brazil that can deliver 506 00:25:46,516 --> 00:25:49,156 Speaker 1: to forty hundred ZIP codes. Used to be two weeks 507 00:25:49,196 --> 00:25:50,916 Speaker 1: to do that, now we can do it in two days. 508 00:25:51,556 --> 00:25:54,996 Speaker 1: And that's that business is huge for us. So you know, 509 00:25:55,036 --> 00:25:59,076 Speaker 1: if had I never been fired at JEB Blue from 510 00:25:59,116 --> 00:26:02,476 Speaker 1: the CEO job, Zoo wouldn't exist. And that is the 511 00:26:02,516 --> 00:26:06,756 Speaker 1: most important thing I've done thus far. Peanuts are pretzels, 512 00:26:07,716 --> 00:26:12,036 Speaker 1: Peanuts of course. More favorite airport to be stuck at 513 00:26:12,076 --> 00:26:15,076 Speaker 1: with my terminal five Jeff Blue in JFK. It's got 514 00:26:15,076 --> 00:26:17,556 Speaker 1: a lot of options, a great place still though you 515 00:26:17,636 --> 00:26:21,436 Speaker 1: still still you still like it there? Yeah, sure, it's 516 00:26:21,836 --> 00:26:24,796 Speaker 1: my baby. What's the next airline you're going to start? 517 00:26:24,836 --> 00:26:28,476 Speaker 1: I think this is it. I'm good, I've done enough 518 00:26:28,556 --> 00:26:31,996 Speaker 1: and I think Breeze is gonna be great, and then 519 00:26:31,996 --> 00:26:37,196 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna enjoy it. David Neilman is the founder 520 00:26:37,196 --> 00:26:41,476 Speaker 1: and CEO of Breeze. Today's show was produced by Edith Russolo, 521 00:26:41,676 --> 00:26:45,276 Speaker 1: engineered by Amanda ka Wong, and edited by Robert Smith. 522 00:26:45,796 --> 00:26:48,316 Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Goldstein, and I would love to know who 523 00:26:48,316 --> 00:26:51,396 Speaker 1: else you think we should book for the show. You 524 00:26:51,436 --> 00:26:55,396 Speaker 1: can email us at problem at pushkin dot fm. It's 525 00:26:55,476 --> 00:26:58,516 Speaker 1: problem at Pushkin dot fm, or you can find me 526 00:26:58,556 --> 00:27:01,436 Speaker 1: on Twitter. I'm at Jacob Goldstein. We'll be back next 527 00:27:01,476 --> 00:27:03,436 Speaker 1: week with another episode of What's Your Problem