1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to this week's classic episode. Fellow Ridiculous Historians. We 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: are as we record in the great metropolis of Atlanta, Georgia, 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: and Atlanta, Georgia, like a lot of the Southern United States, 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: has a bit of. 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,159 Speaker 2: A history to it. 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, not the best history. From eighteen sixty one 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 3: to eighteen sixty five, the USA was participating in a 8 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 3: little something called the War between the States. More than 9 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 3: a century later, it remains America's bloodiest war, and it 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 3: happens right here, oh man, among other places. But you know, 11 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 3: it was a pretty pretty central location to the Civil War. 12 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 3: And after the conflict concluded and the Union one the 13 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 3: Confederate Army surrendered, General Robert E. Lee survived, and he 14 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 3: found himself constantly a pro getting all these cold calls 15 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 3: to endorse different memorials or statues or buildings and so on. 16 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 3: And here's the thing, he hated it. Yeah, let's find 17 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 3: out why. 18 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio, Casey. Can we 19 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: get a little bit of a kind of a Gettysburg 20 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: vibe music, you know, like with the drums flute, there 21 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: we go. 22 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 3: I feel that cadence sounds like a nineties song. Like 23 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 3: Jumper by Third Eye Blind. 24 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 2: Or something in that from the centuries earlier. Yeah, yeah, totally. 25 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 3: It's it's those marching drums that really give them feels up. 26 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: And speaking of feels, thanks for tuning in. We hope 27 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: that you are feeling great. Uh, this is ridiculous history. 28 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: My name is Ben, my name is Nolan, and the 29 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: man on the ones and twos as always give it 30 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: up for our super producer, Casey Pegram. Today's episode does 31 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: concern some heavy history that we we have to bring 32 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: into the story, but we we don't have to get 33 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: to too in the weeds about it. You've heard the 34 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: story a thousand thousand times, whether or not you live 35 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: in the US. It's a story of brother against brother, 36 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: North and South, a nation divided, the US Civil War? Noel, 37 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: how would you describe the US Civil War to someone 38 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: who had never heard of it? 39 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 3: It was real, main spirited man. Brothers were fighting brothers. 40 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,399 Speaker 3: Everyone was at each other throats. Is the North from 41 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 3: the South? And why can't we all just get along? 42 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 3: And wasn't any fun? Man? Wasn't any fun? 43 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: From April twelfth, eighteen sixty one to April ninth, eighteen 44 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: sixty five, this nation was embroiled in what would later 45 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: become the most heavily documented research war in US history. Yeah, 46 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: that too, So I think all of those facts together 47 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,679 Speaker 1: are are a pretty good high level look at at 48 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: this conflict. But the ramifications of the US Civil War 49 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: carry on in the United States today, not just in 50 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: the southern part of the continent, but in the policies 51 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: and the legislation created on a state and federal level. 52 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: The war created several larger than life historical figures, people 53 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: who were and are enormously influential here in twenty nineteen. 54 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln, for instance, right, the guy who brought everybody 55 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: back together hell or high water. And today's episode is 56 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: about another one of those giants, a man named Robert E. 57 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: Lee or we can only imagine Bobby Lee to his friends. 58 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, or maybe some people called him Eddie because his 59 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 3: middle name, the E is for Edward. 60 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I foind out. 61 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 3: I know that was eating a lot of you up inside, 62 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 3: not knowing what that E stood for? 63 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 2: Was it ihorn? 64 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 3: Exactly? 65 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 2: So what do we know about Robert E. Lee? 66 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 3: Well, like, okay, so he was born January nineteenth of 67 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 3: eighteen oh seven, passed away October twelfth of eighteen seventy, 68 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: and he was a decorated general. He was born in 69 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 3: a plantation in Westmoreland County, Virginia, and he came from 70 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 3: a military family. His father's name was Major General Henry 71 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 3: Lee the third had a pretty dope nickname as it 72 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 3: with lighthorse Harry, and he was also the governor of Virginia. 73 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 3: And he was had Robert E. With his second wife, 74 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 3: Ann Hill Carter, and he was raised in this very 75 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 3: regimented military family, and he carried on that legacy with 76 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 3: a career in military engineering. His father actually had some 77 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 3: difficulties that he ended up in debtors prison due to 78 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 3: some financial troubles he had while doing business in the 79 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 3: West Indies. But Robert was left undeterred and he got 80 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 3: himself a pretty choice spot at the prestigious military academy 81 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 3: at West Points, where he graduated second in his class 82 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 3: in eighteen twenty nine. But it would be some time 83 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 3: before Lee actually ever saw battle. It wasn't until eighteen 84 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 3: forty six in the War with Mexico that he was 85 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 3: able to really get his feet, wet, his hands bloody, 86 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 3: whatever the euphemism you'd like to use under General Winfield, 87 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 3: Scott Brigade or whatever you want, regiments, I don't know. 88 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 3: He became a pretty well respected soldier for bravery, and 89 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 3: he came out of that situation with the rank of 90 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 3: colonel and then was appointed as a superintendent at West Point, 91 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 3: where he served from eighteen fifty two to eighteen fifty five. 92 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 3: But let's remember where this story starts. He was at 93 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 3: heart a Southern gentleman raised on a Southern plantation, and 94 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 3: was also a slave owner, and reports are that he 95 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 3: was quite cruel to his slaves. In fact, in a 96 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 3: biography brief biography on Battlefield dot org, the writer points 97 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 3: out that during his tenure as the superintendent, which is 98 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 3: like the head honcho of West Point, he would be 99 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 3: overseeing cadets who would serve on both sides of the 100 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 3: Civil War, both under him and in opposition to his forces, 101 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 3: because as we know, he went on to become the 102 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 3: general of the Confederate Forces, which were the forces that 103 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 3: supported slavery. 104 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 2: Right. 105 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: So, one thing that people forgot pretty quickly after the 106 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: close of the Civil War and Robert E. Lee's death 107 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: is that he was by no means a perfect man. 108 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: There are a lot of myths about lee that are 109 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: still circulating today, one of those being that he was 110 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: opposed to slavery. After the Civil War, he did attempt 111 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: to present himself as always having been opposed to slavery. 112 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: In an interview. 113 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: Shortly after his surrender at Appomattox, he said that the 114 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: best men of the South have been eager to do 115 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: away with the abominable practice. In eighteen sixty six, he 116 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: testified before the Joint Committee on Reconstruction that he had 117 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: always been in favor of emancipation, gradual emancipation. However, he 118 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: owned or managed slaves for over thirty years in eighteen 119 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: sixty one, in April, he oversaw roughly two hundred individuals. 120 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 3: Not to mention that there were reports. You know, maybe 121 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 3: we haven't a hundred percent confirmation, but he wasn't a 122 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 3: particularly kind slave owner, that he may have been much 123 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 3: more on the cruel and brutal side. 124 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: We give this just to lay out those facts. These 125 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: are very very important things. However, his personal or non 126 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: military life aside, he was known as one of the 127 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: finest officers in the US Army. In eighteen fifty nine, 128 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: he was called upon to suppress the raid at Harper's Ferry, 129 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: led by the abolitionist John Brown, and was so successful 130 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: that in eighteen sixty one, Abraham Lincoln offered him command 131 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 1: of the full Federal forces. Not only did he decline, 132 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: he resigned from the army when the state of Virginia 133 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: seceded from the Union on April seventeenth of the same year, 134 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: his reasoning being I cannot make war against my own people. 135 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: And he didn't just resign, he didn't go, you know, 136 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: hang out on a farm somewhere. Instead, he joined up 137 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: with the newly formed Confederate Army as a general. So 138 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: his first military engagement is at a place called Cheat Mountain, Virginia. 139 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: Well now it's West Virginia, but back then it was 140 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: just Cheap Mountain, Virginia on September eleventh, eighteen sixty one. 141 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: It was a victory for the Union, but he still 142 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: weathered the storm and was also a military advisor to 143 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: President Jefferson Davis until eighteen sixty two. And there are 144 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: so many fantastic stories, books, biographies, podcasts, research papers, and 145 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: so on written about the Civil War that we would 146 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: helpfully re for you to any one of those. Let's 147 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: fast forward to the end of the Civil War, because 148 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: this is when our story really begins to take shape. 149 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: So we said that the Civil War ended in eighteen 150 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: sixty five, right. 151 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true because upon defeat, Robert E. Lee had 152 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 3: to or didn't have to, but he seemed to acquiesce 153 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 3: to swearing allegiance to the Union and to admitting defeat, 154 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 3: and to not being particularly sore sport about the whole 155 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 3: affair because he was, you know, in fact, a professional 156 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 3: military man, and he understood the rules of engagement and 157 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 3: he wasn't gonna pitch a fit about it, and he 158 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 3: kind of went quietly. 159 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 2: Yeah. 160 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 1: On April ninth, eighteen sixty five, Lee surrendered the Confederate 161 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: Army to Ulysses S. Grant at the Appomattox Courthouse. This 162 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: ended the Civil War, I mean effectively, he went home 163 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: on parole, and his life when on for about five 164 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: years after the Civil Wars end, and he eventually became 165 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: president of Washington College right before his death on October twelfth, 166 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy. There's an interesting timeline here, right, So 167 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: he only lives about five years after the close of 168 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: the Civil War. And similar to the way that myths 169 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: sprang up about George Washington, you know, even while he 170 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: was alive and certainly immediately after his death. We see 171 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: the same thing in certain parts of American culture with 172 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: Robert E. 173 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 2: Lee. 174 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: He was romanticized, he was memorialized. You could say people 175 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: in the South wanted to build statues to him. They 176 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: wanted to waive the stars and bars and talk about, 177 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, the South rising again, right, Yeah, I 178 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: mean that's. 179 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: What they said. 180 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 3: It absolutely, but it ends up feeding into some pretty 181 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 3: toxic romanticizations of these ideas. 182 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, let's have no illusions about that. 183 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 3: It's bad stuff. And we will get into how that 184 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 3: plays into more contemporary history in just a little bit. 185 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 3: In an article on PBS dot org by Lisa and 186 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 3: I'm going to go ahead and really french this one 187 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 3: up Lisa Desjardins, which I may be overpronouncing it, but 188 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 3: I'd rather overpronounced than underpronounced. She mentions how Lee was 189 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 3: pretty clear about the way he felt about that kind 190 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,599 Speaker 3: of romanticization well before his death, and that he stressed 191 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 3: this idea that it was very important for a country 192 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,959 Speaker 3: that had been torn by war to move past it, 193 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 3: and that includes not memorializing it with any kind of 194 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 3: symbolism or militant monument remembrances things like that that would 195 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 3: continue to cause to sort of sow the seeds of separatism. 196 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 3: And there's a really great quote from him that you 197 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 3: think you can kind of take as faith face value. 198 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:02,719 Speaker 3: Then we can kind of dissect it a little bit too, Ben, 199 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 3: Do you want to read that one? 200 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 2: Sure? 201 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: This quote comes from a piece of correspondence about a 202 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: proposed memorial at Gettysburg written in eighteen sixty nine. I 203 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: think it was not to keep open the souls of war, 204 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: but to follow the examples of those nations who were 205 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: endabled to obliterate the marks of civil straff, to commit 206 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: to oblivion little feelings in gender. 207 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: Very well spoken, sir. That's not me, that's Robert E. 208 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 3: Lee. 209 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 2: I found don't know where we got the audio. 210 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 3: I felt as though he floated right into the room. Yeah, 211 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 3: it's true. And that has led many to believe that 212 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 3: what he meant was any of these Confederate monuments were 213 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 3: counter to his idea of how it would be best 214 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 3: to deal with the fallout from a war like that, 215 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 3: that by having these romanticizations or any kind of these 216 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 3: big reminders steering you in the face, whatever side you 217 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 3: were on. It's not a good thing, and it would 218 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 3: continue to sow those seeds of division and hostility between 219 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 3: the winning and the losing sizes. 220 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a great biography of Lee by a fellow 221 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: named Jonathan Horne, The Man Who Would Not Be Washington 222 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 1: fantastic title, and he points out that Lee himself, Roberty 223 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: Lee himself after the Civil War, in those five years 224 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: before his death, he opposed monuments, but specifically opposed Confederate 225 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: War monuments, and in his correspondence we have multiple documented 226 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: reasons for his opinion. So in one case he questions 227 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: the cost of a monument to Stonewall Jackson, and he 228 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: finds some other ways to approach this issue. But his 229 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: underlying prime objection to this is that we empower a 230 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: cause or an idea when we remember it. That's why 231 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: so many civilizations work so ardently in the past and 232 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: the modern day to erase things from your history books. 233 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: In his mind, the war had ended, the nation was 234 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: one again, and it needed to look forward to the 235 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: future rather than celebrating this social upheaval and then potentially 236 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: leading to further discord down the road. 237 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, he see. 238 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 3: He puts it pretty eloquently in this discord that we 239 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 3: also have tape up. 240 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated, 241 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: my conviction is that, however grateful it would be to 242 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: the feelings of the South, the attempt, in the present 243 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: condition of the country, would have the effect of retarding 244 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: instead of accelerating its accomplishment, of continuing, if not adding 245 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: to the difficulties under which the Southern people label. We 246 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: do want to point out there that he is using 247 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: a word that could be seen as offensive. He's in 248 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: the correct way, you know what I mean. He's meaning 249 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: to sty me the progress of the country. 250 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, indeed, And there's this actually was so divisive it 251 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 3: made the news really recently because of the senseless and 252 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 3: bizarre and unfortunate attack for lack of a better term, 253 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 3: that happened in Charlottesville, Virginia in twenty seventeen, where in fact, 254 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 3: an alt right or a white supremacist group descended on 255 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 3: the small college town because of a proposal to pull 256 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 3: down a statue of General Robert E. 257 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: Lee. 258 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 3: And there was violence. A young woman was hit and 259 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 3: killed by a car, and it at the time it 260 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 3: was just utter chaos. It became a very divisive political issue. 261 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 3: Even before this event, it became a very divisive political issue, 262 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 3: the idea of should we erase these marks of the 263 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 3: past because of what they represent, which you know, you 264 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 3: could argue is racism, is division, is pro slavery attitudes. 265 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 3: Some Southerners, old school Southerners, say it's their heritage or represents, 266 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 3: you know, just the history of the South, and that 267 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 3: taking it down is disrespectful to them. So say what 268 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 3: you will. Our president had this to say about it, 269 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 3: sad to see the history and culture of our great 270 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 3: country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful 271 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 3: statues and monuments. 272 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: You know, no, I noticed you didn't do a Trump 273 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: voice for that, And I think that's I think that's 274 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,239 Speaker 1: a good call, because I gotta tell you, I've been 275 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: looking around and I just cannot, for the life of me, 276 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: find a good impression of that guy, you know what 277 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: I mean, Like Alec Baldwin in one is not that great. 278 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 3: Well, that's sort of what makes his funny, right, is 279 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 3: that it's like it's, yeah, it's so out of left 280 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 3: field that it just kind of is like cartoonish, as 281 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 3: you would say, right. 282 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, even Stephen Colbert Love the guys just I don't know, 283 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: maybe it's a tough voice. They're the pros. Let know, 284 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 1: if you've seen a decent impression. And I'm not saying 285 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: anything further than that, it's just usually when someone's president, 286 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: there's like one person, often from Saturday Night Live, who 287 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 1: does the best impression of that president. And it looks 288 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: like we're still looking for one. No offense to any 289 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin fans in the house, but your point, your 290 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: point stands, Nolan. It goes back to what I was 291 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: saying at the top. We see these ramifications carry on 292 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: to the modern day. Faulkner was right when he said 293 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: the past is not over. It's not even passed. And 294 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing there, but this is an important point I 295 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: believe now. Currently, as it stands, there's somewhere around seven 296 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty monuments all told, across the US that 297 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: are their memorials for the Civil War, and that's according 298 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: to the Southern Poverty Law Center. People who want the 299 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: removed say that the continued presence of the monuments confers 300 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: undue dignity on a faction that fought to preserve slavery 301 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: and white supremacy, So they agree with Roberty Lee, but 302 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: perhaps for different reasons. 303 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, and not to mention that. In August of twenty seventeen, 304 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,199 Speaker 3: PBS News Hour and NPR an Emerist poll found that 305 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 3: sixty two percent of people responding to the pole thought 306 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 3: that monuments such as this should stay in place as 307 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 3: historical symbols. 308 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: So it is a. 309 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 3: Tricky argument because on the one hand, it's a form 310 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 3: of revisionist history. On the other hand, you know, real 311 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 3: estate is scarce, maybe we should devote it to more 312 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,199 Speaker 3: positive things, you know what I mean, like as opposed 313 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 3: to something that represents things that are painful to others 314 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 3: who have family members that possibly even lived through it 315 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 3: or were connected to it more directly. 316 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: And one thing that a lot of people miss when 317 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: they hear the headline Roberty Lee opposed Confederate memorials is 318 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: that he also opposed Civil War memorials in general. He 319 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: turned down the Gettysburg Battlefield Memorial Association back in eighteen 320 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: sixty nine. He really wanted the battlefields to be erased, 321 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: to turn into farms, to turn into towns and other 322 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: peaceful areas of the nation, rather than memorializing them. He 323 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: saw it as a way to speed reconciliation. So it's 324 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: not as if he was wholly repentant, you know what 325 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: I mean, Nor was he penitent. He said all of 326 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 1: the memorials would be better if they were left unbuilt. 327 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 3: That's right, yep, for sure. And this is one of 328 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 3: those quotes, the original one that we said about, you know, 329 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 3: the sores of division or whatever, that you can very 330 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 3: easily take out of context and use to support arguments 331 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 3: on either side. 332 00:20:53,400 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: Right, And this is where our hal draws to a close. 333 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: But we didn't want to end on too somber a 334 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: note because there is a very specific type of unorthodox 335 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: Confederate memorial that will never be removed from the US 336 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: because it doesn't exist in the US. We were talking 337 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: about the Confederados, the ten thousand to twenty thousand Confederate 338 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: American refugees who fled to Brazil, mainly in South Paulo, 339 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 1: and then lived reproduced, had descendants. They founded the City 340 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: Americana Brazil. We did this on previous episodes, totally. 341 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was that obsession with the Confederate South in 342 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 3: the very same way that they romanticize it in an 343 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 3: almost weird kind of like alternate reality. Man in the 344 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 3: High Castle, fictionalized kind of way, as though if they 345 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 3: had won the war, what it would be like. That's 346 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 3: a weird one. 347 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: And you can see the residents of Americana Sal Paulo 348 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: talking about how they how much they enjoy the festival 349 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: they hold every year, and how it's for them not 350 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 1: about commemorating a regime, right, it's not about commemorating racism 351 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: or slavery year, all the things tied to the Civil War. 352 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: It's just for them part of their culture. Very interesting town. 353 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: So if you've ever been there, check it out and 354 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,719 Speaker 1: let us know what you find. 355 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 3: And you know in fact, snopes dot com, the famous 356 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 3: fact checking site, decided to weigh in on this as well, 357 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 3: with the question was Robert E. Lee opposed to Confederate monuments? 358 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 3: And they classify it as a mixture of true and false, 359 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 3: with the truth being supporting the validity of those quotes 360 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 3: that he expressed opposition to Civil War monuments memorials, including 361 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 3: the Stonewall Jackson one specifically. But what isn't clear is 362 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 3: the breadth of this position. His opposition to Confederate monuments 363 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 3: was probably more pronounced than his opposition towards Civil War 364 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 3: monuments in general. 365 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 2: But it was still against against them overall. 366 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, but it is one of those 367 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 3: mixed mixed snoops responses. And then the continuation of the 368 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 3: President Trump's quote from earlier. The tweet was this, he says, 369 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 3: you can't change history, but you can learn from it. 370 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 3: Robert E. Lee Sonwell Jackson, who's next? Washington? Jefferson? So foolish. Also, 371 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 3: the beauty that is being taken out of our cities, 372 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 3: towns and parks will be greatly missed and never able 373 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 3: to be completely replaced. So we can see where where 374 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 3: our boy Donnie Trump falls in that debate. 375 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: I'd also like to hear from you, fellow ridiculous historians. 376 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: Where where do you fall in this debate? And speak 377 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: of hearing from you, what do you guys say we 378 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: do a little listener mail. 379 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 3: I think that's a smashing idea. 380 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 2: Did you see that? 381 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 3: One listener wrote in and said that the listener mail 382 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 3: sound effect fills them with abject terror? 383 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 2: I saw that? 384 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yeah, interesting? 385 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 2: Was that on Facebook? 386 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 3: It was on Facebook? 387 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: I think you can you can see what we're talking 388 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: about if you're joined forces with us on Facebook at 389 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians. Just getting that plug out of the way 390 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: right now. 391 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 2: So what do we got? You got you got any 392 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 2: hot takes? 393 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 3: No? 394 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 2: I do. 395 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 3: I got one from Hannah says Hello. I was recently 396 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 3: listening to you or when West Virginia begged for foreign 397 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 3: aid from the USSR, and I was inspired to inquire 398 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 3: about a podcast on for Gotonia. For Gotonia is a 399 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 3: west central section of Illinois that was forgotten when highways 400 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 3: were expanded west and there was an attempt to secede 401 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 3: from the United States. This section of Illinois felt cut 402 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 3: off and decided to bring attention to it with this 403 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 3: major move. I have lived in this area my whole life, huh, 404 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 3: and it amazes me how few people know of it. 405 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 3: Please consider it for a future podcast. Thanks Hannah. Consider 406 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 3: it considered, Hannah, Yes, consider it considered. I had not 407 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 3: heard of Forgottonia before receiving your letter, Hannah, and I 408 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 3: think it's fascinating. I I actually I've been reading a 409 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 3: lot about it off air, and I hope that there 410 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 3: are license plates. 411 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: I hope that there are stickers. I hope that you can, 412 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: you know, send mail with Forgotonia stamps. 413 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 2: But I look forward to learning. 414 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: More and before we uh forget Tonia this segment, let's 415 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: have Let's have one more listener mail. 416 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 2: Rebecca C. 417 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: Writes to us with an email entitled Ordeal by Cake. Hello, 418 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: says Rebecca. I have been listening to this podcast since 419 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: it started and it has become one of my favorites. 420 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 2: Ah. Thanks. 421 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: In parentheses, she says, I love the quizter. We have 422 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: complicated feelings there. The war began by the dog was timely, 423 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: as it came up in trivia last night. Or the 424 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: guy who sets the questions also listened to the show. 425 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: When you discussed undergoing trials, I was reminded of Ordeal 426 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: by Cake, where the person would have to eat a 427 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: dry cake without choking after swearing to something, the idea 428 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 1: being that if you were lying, guilt would stick in 429 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: your throat. Just a thought it might leave less scars 430 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: than other ordeals. Rebecca, thanks for writing. I had never 431 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: heard of the Trial by Cake. The closest I remember 432 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: hearing is that old stand up bit about cake or 433 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: death right and Eddie Izzard bit. I just got confirmed 434 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: off air by Casey, but I don't know. I would 435 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 1: give it a try. It sounds kind of like an 436 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: old school version of the saltine Challenge. 437 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 2: Have you heard of that? 438 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 3: Is that where you eat a bunch of saltines? Is 439 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 3: it like the cinnamon Challenge? 440 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 2: Yeah? Pretty much so. 441 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a way to set legal precedent, 442 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: but I'd be interested in trying it. I wonder if 443 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: we could institute. Do you think HR would let us 444 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: get away with that? 445 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 3: I mean, I say we What is it better to 446 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 3: ask for forgiveness than permission? 447 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 2: Especially when Cake is involved? 448 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 3: Oh man, sign me up. I'll try anything once, especially 449 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 3: if Cake is involved. 450 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 1: So thank you so much, Anna, thank you, Rebecca, and 451 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: thank you for listening. This concludes listener mail, but not 452 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 1: our show. Tune in because we have more ridiculous stuff 453 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: on the way as always in the meantime. You can 454 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: learn more about ridiculous, bizarre, strange exploits throughout the story 455 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: of human civilization on our Facebook page Ridiculous Historians, our Instagram, 456 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: or our Twitter. You can also follow our own personal 457 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: adventures on Instagram where I am at Ben Bowling. 458 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 3: I am at Embryonic Insider. Big Thanks to super producer 459 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 3: Casey Pegram Alex Williams, who composed our theme research associate 460 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 3: Gabe Lozier, and of course I think we're due for 461 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 3: a Christopher Hasiotis appearance and possibly a creepy drop in 462 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 3: from our arch nemesis, the Quist Jonathan Strickland. 463 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: I have PTSD my friend podcast Drama Traumatic Stress Disorder, 464 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: because this is gonna sound weird, But there are I 465 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,239 Speaker 1: know that it sounds like a bit sometimes, but there 466 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: are genuinely times when we don't know that he's coming. 467 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 1: It's it's strange. It's it's a bizarre situation and we've 468 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: just been rolling with it. 469 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 3: It's also weird when he just kind of drops down 470 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,400 Speaker 3: from the ceiling and then his head turns around three 471 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 3: hundred and sixty degrees and he kind of makes a 472 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 3: weird cackling sound. This is a very guttural, like from 473 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 3: the throat kind of situation. 474 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not a bit. Sometimes he doesn't even 475 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: make it to the mic. He just drops in exorss 476 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: style and then like skitters back up into the ceiling. 477 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 3: It is quite traumatic for all concerned. But at the 478 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 3: same time, I missed the little guy. 479 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: You know, I'd like a statue. I gotta tell you, 480 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: I was conflicted with this because I see Robert E. 481 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: Lee's point about not wanting to memorialize this, this intense, 482 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: divisive period in time, But also, wouldn't it be kind 483 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: of cool to have a statue of your of yourself? 484 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: I mean, so it's such a Kanye West move, you know, Casey, would. 485 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 2: You get a statue of yourself? 486 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: Probably not, someone else would have to build it right 487 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: at the very least. 488 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 2: But I'll tell you what you will get. 489 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 3: Well, maybe not a statue, but some kind of apparel 490 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 3: I think may be forthcoming. 491 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 2: Oh oh oh. 492 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 3: Stay tuned for more podcasts from iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app, 493 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.