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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Let's get back to hauntings and scary things. We were

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Speaker 2: talking about what kind of places generally have the most

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Speaker 2: ghost activity in your thoughts on that.

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Speaker 3: So my personal take on that is that liminal places

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Speaker 3: have the most hauntings. Places that are kind of an

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Speaker 3: in between space or like a threshold or an edge space.

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Speaker 3: And there's a lot of different places that can be

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Speaker 3: liminal places. In a house, you have liminal places, you

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Speaker 3: have doorways, you have staircases, and it is not hallways.

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Speaker 4: All of these are places that people.

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Speaker 3: Often will see hauntings. And you know, the world has

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Speaker 3: liminal places. Bridges, of course very big with hauntings, Hotels,

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Speaker 3: and of course crosses of rivers. You met you had

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Speaker 3: a bit earlier about Ellicott City. I'm super familiar with

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Speaker 3: Elicott City. It's a very liminal place. It's got a

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Speaker 3: very thin feeling to it. And I would say that

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Speaker 3: any space that has that sort of liminal quality, and

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Speaker 3: the way you know you're in a liminal space unless

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Speaker 3: you know, just listen to a definition I just.

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Speaker 5: Give you beyond that is the feeling.

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Speaker 3: There's a change of feeling. When you're in a liminal space,

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Speaker 3: you know you're at a threshold, you.

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Speaker 4: Know it's different.

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Speaker 3: There could be a temperature shift, there could be a

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Speaker 3: feeling of stillness or sort of like that loaded quiet,

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Speaker 3: and you could also just suddenly emotionally feel different for

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Speaker 3: no reason. Animals definitely sense them. I always say, I

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Speaker 3: don't know why more ghost hunting teams don't have a dog,

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Speaker 3: because dogs.

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Speaker 4: Are great at it.

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Speaker 3: I have seen dogs go wild on my ghost tour

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Speaker 3: programs and then all the pictures on people's phones it's

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Speaker 3: just orbs everywhere.

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Speaker 4: But the dog's new first.

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Speaker 2: How do they pick it up? Do they sense it,

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Speaker 2: do they feel it, do they see it? What do

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Speaker 2: they do?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of theories about that, and the truth

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Speaker 3: is we don't really know. But dogs have a whole

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Speaker 3: different and soda cats have a whole different set of

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Speaker 3: senses than we do. They hear on a different level

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Speaker 3: of hurts. They smell I think something like one thousand

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Speaker 3: percent more than us. I mean, it's something.

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Speaker 4: Wild like that.

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Speaker 3: But we do know that dogs can sense changes in

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Speaker 3: atmospheric pressure. They can you know, they can do bomb sniffing,

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Speaker 3: they can smell COVID. They can do so many things

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Speaker 3: with their set of senses that we cannot, So it

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Speaker 3: certainly stands to reason that they know when there's a

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Speaker 3: haunting present. And I did read a news bit one

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Speaker 3: time about a ghost sunting team that used the dog,

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Speaker 3: and they always.

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Speaker 4: Trusted the dog.

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Speaker 3: They were like, if the dog says don't go in,

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Speaker 3: we don't go in. If the dog wants to investigate,

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Speaker 3: we go in and investigate. And they said that the

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Speaker 3: dog was never wrong.

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Speaker 2: So why does it seem that tragic events tend to

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Speaker 2: be more haunted than normal events?

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Speaker 3: You know, that's a that's a great that's a great question.

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Speaker 3: And history is part of that answer, because so often

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Speaker 3: our tragedies, our losses are so emotional, they come with

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Speaker 3: so much grief and pain, and that lays down a

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Speaker 3: huge emotional imprint on a place as well as even

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Speaker 3: just like a whole community. And I think that that

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Speaker 3: particular part of the human experience is especially loaded. So

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Speaker 3: when you look through say popular places to see hauntings

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Speaker 3: like Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, for example, there was a tragedy there and.

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Speaker 5: The land remembers, the land.

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Speaker 3: Remembers the thousands of people who died in the course

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Speaker 3: of three days, and the horrific aftermath for that community,

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Speaker 3: where like there were bodies in their water, and it

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Speaker 3: just so much about it was really difficult to live

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Speaker 3: through for the people who survived. And it's almost like

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Speaker 3: every single bit of Gettysburg was involved, and all of

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Speaker 3: those buildings, all of that land has a collective memory

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Speaker 3: of the tragedy that happened.

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Speaker 2: What do you think of these special places like cemeteries?

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Speaker 3: So I love cemeteries. I think cemeteries are I personally

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Speaker 3: think they're a great place to study history because you

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Speaker 3: can tell when someone was buried by what their stone

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Speaker 3: looks like. Because how we have treated our dead over

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Speaker 3: time changes. I would say the trends change every seventy

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Speaker 3: to one hundred years. It changes how we treat our dead.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we're in one of those transitions right now

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Speaker 3: where it's gone from burials into more cremations, and it's

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Speaker 3: just the trend of putting our dead somewhere continually change. Now,

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Speaker 3: do cemeteries carry memory, Yes, they carry a lot of

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Speaker 3: grief and sorrow, But they carry a lot of grief

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Speaker 3: and sorrow from the living, not so much from the dead.

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Speaker 3: In my opinion, now, walking through an old Victorian cemetery

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Speaker 3: or a New Orleans cemetery, it is an amazing experience

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Speaker 3: because there's this fear built in because you're surrounded by death,

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Speaker 3: and it really makes you.

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Speaker 4: Think about your own mortality.

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Speaker 3: So I think that cemeteries are one of those fantastic

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Speaker 3: opportunities to hold up a mirror. And I think that's

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Speaker 3: even one of the reasons people love a ghost story.

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Speaker 3: It's a safe way to experience the idea of your

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Speaker 3: own mortality, outside of whether or not you've seen a

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Speaker 3: real ghost or not.

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Speaker 2: Richa does an emotion tend to bring out more spirits

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Speaker 2: and ghosts, Like you were talking about Marmaduke, the fact

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Speaker 2: that he hung himself and he was sad. Seems like

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Speaker 2: the more emotion there is, the more present.

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Speaker 3: I think that's true. You know, we humans, we're really

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Speaker 3: messy creatures and many of us never learned to properly

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Speaker 3: handle emotions or process our feelings, and I think that

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Speaker 3: that leads to some of the most dramatic hauntings. You

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Speaker 3: know a great example, I'll take you back to Elicate City.

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Speaker 3: There's a story there of a young woman named Mary,

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Speaker 3: and Mary haunts a fantastic pub called the Judges Bench,

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Speaker 3: and to this day people encounter Mary. She died in

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Speaker 3: the nineteen sixties when she hanged herself and because she

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Speaker 3: couldn't marry the man she was in love with, her

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Speaker 3: parents said no and she saw no way out, so

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Speaker 3: her emotions won out, and to this day she is

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Speaker 3: still there, but her feeling has changed.

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Speaker 5: She's no longer gery stricken in mourning.

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Speaker 4: She's playful.

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Speaker 3: She is who she was in her life before that

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Speaker 3: grief overtook.

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Speaker 5: Her, and yet she interacted with the pleasant spirit.

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Speaker 2: What turned her into a jovial person.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know her in her life that was before

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Speaker 3: I was alive. My guess is that because she was

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Speaker 3: only nineteen when she died, aside from the grief of

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Speaker 3: not being able to marry her love, she was probably

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Speaker 3: that person first. And as the decades have gone by

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Speaker 3: and the place has changed and her family is all gonne,

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Speaker 3: she probably just decided to enjoy her time.

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Speaker 4: At the Judges Bench. So that's that's my guess.

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Speaker 5: I haven't actually gotten.

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Speaker 6: To talk to her, and I know you're going to

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Speaker 6: want someone after hearing this. This is an amazing story.

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Speaker 7: We've got Stephen and Malachi Gregory in Nelson, New Zealand.

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Speaker 6: Now I understand that Malachi, who is eight almost nine

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Speaker 6: years old now, was suffering with not just one or

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Speaker 6: two warts, but I mean as significant outbreak of warts

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Speaker 6: all over his body, so significant it impacted his ability

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Speaker 6: to really function.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, he was having trouble even holding a pencil to right.

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Speaker 8: It was Tie's book actually that got me thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not surprised.

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Speaker 8: It is an amazing immunal modulator, and so I can

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Speaker 8: see that it would work.

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Speaker 6: And so at what point did you see that there

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Speaker 6: was actually improvement It's really going to work.

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Speaker 8: Well, look, we really started to notice it around twelve weeks.

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Speaker 8: You can see these things actually getting smaller and smaller

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Speaker 8: and then going down to the with just little red marks.

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Speaker 8: The whole things are gone, and we're talking about what's

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Speaker 8: you know one the size of the wanner. I thought,

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Speaker 8: no way, that's gonna Wow. That's just been miraculous to

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Speaker 8: see them get into a pair of shoes.

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Speaker 1: Yes, how wonderful.

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Speaker 8: It's great to see him so happy and.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, confident, absolutely wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Friends that have seen it, that is blown away.

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Speaker 7: Ti, this is awesome. Yeah, this is awesome, another amazing story.

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Speaker 7: Why we're talking about Carnivora. Call them to awaken your

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Speaker 7: A carnivora dot com.

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Speaker 2: Now what does a ghost mean to you?

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Speaker 1: What is it?

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Speaker 3: I think there are two ways to look at ghosts

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Speaker 3: because I think there are two phenomenons that we categorize

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Speaker 3: as ghosts. So the first is the residual and my

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Speaker 3: favorite definition of that, as I said earlier, is a

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Speaker 3: scar on time space. It is not a haunting that

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Speaker 3: will ever really change.

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Speaker 4: It's almost like a recording, right.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure you're familiar with like the stone tape theory

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Speaker 3: and the theory that certain kinds of geology holds spirits better,

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Speaker 3: like limestone, for example. But I think that those are

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Speaker 3: pretty common, and I think that a lot of the

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Speaker 3: ghost people experience are just these echoes, these residual repetitive spirits,

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Speaker 3: because I know a lot of the ghost stories I

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Speaker 3: know they definitely fall into that category. But you know,

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Speaker 3: the other the intelligent hauntings. They're so fascinating, right.

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Speaker 4: Because what what are they?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: The intelligent hauntings that know we're here, that are sentient,

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Speaker 3: that can you know, look at us, address us, move

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Speaker 3: stuff around.

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Speaker 4: Those are so so.

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Speaker 3: Fascinating and really different, and of course they have their flavors.

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Speaker 3: I think most of them personally are neutral. They're kind

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Speaker 3: of doing their things and you just happen to pass.

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Speaker 3: It's nothing personal.

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Speaker 2: You have what was it about little eight year old

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Speaker 2: Rissa Miller that was so special that allowed you to

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Speaker 2: see a spirit.

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Speaker 5: Done? Luck? You know.

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Speaker 4: Also, I think that kids are just more open.

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Speaker 3: I really genuinely believe that children haven't created this need

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Speaker 3: to rationalize everything, and they also they have the amazing

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Speaker 3: gift of being able to immerse themselves deeply in imagination.

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Speaker 3: Because kids, that's great, and when we're adults, we're like,

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Speaker 3: we're talking now, you have to do all the things

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Speaker 3: now and do the adulting right. But with children, there's

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Speaker 3: still this incredible openness. And I think that was definitely

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Speaker 3: true for me. I wasn't looking for a ghost. I

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Speaker 3: just happened to be in the same place with one, and.

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Speaker 5: It didn't scare me.

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Speaker 4: Like I said, because I was never taught to be afraid.

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Speaker 5: And so.

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Speaker 3: I think me, like many other kids, just happened to

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Speaker 3: be able to see ghosts because we are open to

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Speaker 3: the possibility.

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Speaker 2: Have people been hurt by ghosts physically, That's a great question.

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Speaker 3: I have never met someone yet who who has that story.

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Speaker 3: I think that there's definitely I think there are malevolent

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Speaker 3: spirits out there, because I think there are malevolent people

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Speaker 3: out there, and I think that most ghosts are not malevolent.

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Speaker 3: I mean, knock on wood, George. I have yet to encore,

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Speaker 3: and I've been in the paranormal world a long time now.

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Speaker 3: I know if you watch some shows, you would think that,

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Speaker 3: like every basement is like packed water wall with malevolence.

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Speaker 3: But I just I don't think that's true. I haven't

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Speaker 3: found that, and I live in a very old part

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Speaker 3: of the country and I haven't. It just hasn't happened,

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Speaker 3: and they don't like me.

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Maybe, but most of the spirits I've encountered have been inviduals,

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Speaker 3: followed by neutral to even kind friendly spirits, or just

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Speaker 3: ones that are playful. But absolutely it's a possibility. I

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Speaker 3: don't will anything out and I never like poopoo anyone's experience.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest gifts of being a

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Speaker 3: ghost tour guide for so many years people trust me

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Speaker 3: with their stories. People wait until the end of a

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Speaker 3: tour because they're really looking for someone to tell their stories.

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Speaker 3: They won't say I think you're crazy. And I have

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Speaker 3: so many stories that I've collected from people about ghosts, cryptids,

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Speaker 3: about UFOs, that they come to a ghost tour to

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Speaker 3: find someone to listen to their story.

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Speaker 2: Do you know John Zaphis. Have you heard of him?

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Speaker 5: I have not.

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Speaker 2: He collects stories of ghostly attachments to things, to objects.

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Speaker 2: Why would they do that?

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Speaker 3: Why would a ghost attached to a thing? Well, I

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Speaker 3: think because it had a bond to it. And you know,

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Speaker 3: I know a great story of a rocking chair that

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Speaker 3: had a ghost attached to it that got returned to

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Speaker 3: an antique store over and over because people kept taking

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Speaker 3: it home and they're like, there's a man in a chair, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but he wasn't leaving his chair.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: So finally they sold it to an officer who was

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Speaker 3: stationed at.

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Speaker 5: Fort Meade in Maryland, and.

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Speaker 3: The officer in the chair ghost seemed to get along

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Speaker 3: just fine. And the story circulated both Elicate City where

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Speaker 3: there was sold.

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Speaker 5: And for Mede.

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Speaker 3: So I feel as though I've gotten lots of verification

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Speaker 3: that those two seem to get along just fine. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean I think that you can, you know, think.

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Speaker 4: Of a favorite object of your own.

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Speaker 3: You know, some people get very attached to a piece

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Speaker 3: of jewelry or to a favorite dress, and all of

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Speaker 3: these things can have, you know, a spirit that stays

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Speaker 3: with them, just like a spirit stays.

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Speaker 4: With a house.

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Speaker 2: Why do some people have these kinds of attachments and

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Speaker 2: others don't?

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Speaker 3: That's a great question. I don't know that anybody can

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Speaker 3: actually answer that, foreshore, because we just don't have the

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Speaker 3: science to understand it.

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Speaker 5: Yet. I think we will.

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Speaker 3: I think, I honestly think we will. I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: it's only been this side of two hundred years that

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Speaker 3: we understood whether and stopped blaming it on witches.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: But that said, I think that some people, again are

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Speaker 3: just open to it for various reasons, kind of like

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Speaker 3: children are more open to experiencing the paranormal. I think

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Speaker 3: that when you're talking about a spirit attachment or a person,

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Speaker 3: what happens is that some people are either vulnerable or

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Speaker 3: just simply open to it happening, and that can be caused.

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Speaker 4: By so very much.

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Speaker 3: I know there are lots of theories around illnesses, and

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Speaker 3: when somebody is physically vulnerable, you know, a not so

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Speaker 3: great spirit can attach. I've definitely heard a lot of

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Speaker 3: stories of ghosts that like go home with people, even

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Speaker 3: like go for car rides with people. And I also

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Speaker 3: though sounding kind of fun, but it hasn't happened to me.

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Speaker 3: But then I guess the ghosts through things like short

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Speaker 3: out the electric in the car.

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Speaker 2: So they'll do all kinds of things they.

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Speaker 3: Do well, they're they're moving in energy, so that makes

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Speaker 3: sense they would short out your electric.

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Speaker 2: What has been for you the most scariest moment of

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Speaker 2: your life?

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh, I'll have to think about that every.

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Speaker 4: Second, George.

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Speaker 3: As far as I can tell you, I've never been

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Speaker 3: truly scared by anything paranormal. I feel safer dealing with

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Speaker 3: ghosts than I do with most real people.

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Speaker 2: But I'm sure strange things have happened around you, right,

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Speaker 2: Sure strange.

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Speaker 3: Things have happened. But again, I don't always feel scared

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Speaker 3: by them. In fact, I don't usually feel scared by them.

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Speaker 4: I think the one.

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Speaker 3: This is the only time that I think I was

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Speaker 3: ever really scared of something that happened. I was staying

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Speaker 3: it somewhere that was not my home, and I woke

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Speaker 3: up with these handprints on the outside of the window.

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Speaker 3: This was not a first floor that the finger marks

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Speaker 3: were like dragged down the dust on the outside of

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Speaker 3: the window.

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Speaker 4: There was no way.

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Speaker 3: Somebody could have been up that high, and it just

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Speaker 3: kind of made me feel extremely chilled, and I was

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Speaker 3: glad I was leaving that morning.

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