Speaker 1: On the bechdodcast, the questions asked if movies have women
Speaker 1: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy Zephyn Beast start
Speaker 1: changing with the Bechdelcast.
Speaker 2: Hello listeners, here we are, here we are, and what
Speaker 2: are we doing?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: We are unlocking a Matreon episode. Ever heard of it?
Speaker 3: I think? So?
Speaker 2: Okay, great on the movie Pride and Prejudice two thousand
Speaker 2: and five.
Speaker 3: I'm so excited we're doing this. We don't unlock Matreon
Speaker 3: episodes very often. If you're new to the show, we
Speaker 3: have a Patreon aka Matreon where we do two bonus
Speaker 3: episodes every month. Feel free to join if you enjoy
Speaker 3: this episode. But the reason we're unlocking this specific episode
Speaker 3: from a couple of years ago now is it's the
Speaker 3: two thousand and five Pride and Prejudice. It is one
Speaker 3: of the only even though we are a famously book
Speaker 3: hating podcast, we read the damn book oh this time,
Speaker 3: which I mean, you know, really, the return on investment
Speaker 3: is extraordinary in this one. But the reason we decided
Speaker 3: to release it now is because it is a very
Speaker 3: popular request on the main feed and it is being
Speaker 3: re released into theaters to celebrate the twentieth anniversary of
Speaker 3: the film. So we thought, you know, why not now
Speaker 3: and it is. You know, it is a movie near
Speaker 3: and dear to my heart, and we really hope you
Speaker 3: enjoy the episode.
Speaker 2: Indeed, we released this originally as a part of a
Speaker 2: Matreon theme called Jane Arykay a austin August, in which
Speaker 2: we covered two movie adaptations of Jane Austen books, this
Speaker 2: one Pride and Prejudice, as well as Emma Period from
Speaker 2: twenty twenty yep. So yeah, we're unlocking this one. One
Speaker 2: last thing I'd like to plug is I am doing
Speaker 2: a stand up show a little you know, an evening
Speaker 2: with Caitlin Derante and friends in State College, Pennsylvania. Ever
Speaker 2: heard of it? It's where I went.
Speaker 3: Usually say that with very famous cities and not to
Speaker 3: dispar as State College. But I was like, some people
Speaker 3: might say no.
Speaker 2: Some people might say no, Well, it's the home of
Speaker 2: penn State University's main campus, which is where I went
Speaker 2: to school the first time. I rarely talk about it
Speaker 2: because it has nothing to do with my master's degree
Speaker 2: from Boston University.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 2: But I'm doing a stand up show there as well
Speaker 2: as I'm teaching a stand up workshop a couple days later.
Speaker 2: So this is all on the weekend of April eleventh.
Speaker 2: So the show is on April eleventh, the workshop that
Speaker 2: I'm teaching is on April thirteenth. Tickets for those things
Speaker 2: are on our link tree, as well as the description
Speaker 2: of this episode. And I'd love for you to come
Speaker 2: out if you're in the central Pennsylvania area or wherever,
Speaker 2: do a little road trip. Check out ten States Campus.
Speaker 2: It's pretty, it is very pretty, and then come see
Speaker 2: me do comedy.
Speaker 3: You can't see me that weekend, I'll get my cousin's wedding,
Speaker 3: And as far as I know, tickets aren't john sale
Speaker 3: to the wedding, So go to Caitlyn show. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: don't know. Maybe she'll fit it out later.
Speaker 2: Oh damn hopefully.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Also jumping in here separately recording a voice memo because
Speaker 2: I just confirmed another show on April fifteenth. I'm going
Speaker 2: to be in New York City doing a show called
Speaker 2: A Night to Remember with Caitlin Dorante. Because April fifteenth,
Speaker 2: in addition to being the date of this show, is
Speaker 2: also the date Titanic sank so of course, I'm doing
Speaker 2: a Titanic themed stand up show about it at Union
Speaker 2: Hall in Brooklyn with a really great lineup that includes
Speaker 2: a lot of past Bechdel Cast guests, and I'm donating
Speaker 2: proceeds from ticket sales to the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund.
Speaker 2: So please, please please come to this show. It's going
Speaker 2: to be a really fun time again. Tickets to all
Speaker 2: of these events can be found at link Tree slash
Speaker 2: Bechtel Cast. Scoot over there, grab your tickets, have the
Speaker 2: best time, Come say hi after the show's and without
Speaker 2: much further ado, here is our unlocked episode on Pride
Speaker 2: and Prejudice.
Speaker 3: And now Tom wamscans as mister Darcy the Bedel Cast.
Speaker 4: Jamie, you have bewitched me body and soul. Oh I
Speaker 4: love I love you.
Speaker 3: I like, I was getting so emotional. It's really beautiful.
Speaker 3: It's really beautiful. Yeah, sorry, I know, I know, but
Speaker 3: also like I kind of don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm like, wow, I don't know either.
Speaker 3: I truly like it's not there's no perfect love story,
Speaker 3: but this is like, oh my god. Okay, welcome to
Speaker 3: the Pride and Prejudice episode. First of all, I think
Speaker 3: we should just acknowledge at the top we were wrong
Speaker 3: to avoid this for so long, yeah, because we're like,
Speaker 3: I mean, it was a lot of prep. We'll get there.
Speaker 3: But I think that like as far as like effectively
Speaker 3: told love stories about the complexities of love and getting
Speaker 3: to know each other and like learning one another over
Speaker 3: time and having empathy and compassion. And I was just like,
Speaker 3: it's so good. I kept crying, like Darcy's ultimately he's
Speaker 3: an act like that. I still wouldn't have ultimately gone
Speaker 3: for Darcy. No, but I'm lying, well, okay, that's the thing.
Speaker 2: Full of shit. Can watch this movie and be like, wow,
Speaker 2: this tugs at my heart strings, and especially as someone
Speaker 2: who is deeply cynical and is just much like Lizzie
Speaker 2: thinks she's going to be an old maid, I think
Speaker 2: that about myself. So I'm just like love. But then
Speaker 2: I watched this movie and I'm like, maybe love Israel.
Speaker 2: I don't know. But then also there's a lot of
Speaker 2: things about the romance in this movie where I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't know about this.
Speaker 3: But then then it's like also in the historical context,
Speaker 3: you're like.
Speaker 2: Right, the like well, but then the other half of
Speaker 2: my briend is like I don't care because love nobody.
Speaker 3: I know I got being, like nobody's perfect. After all,
Speaker 3: all you can hope for is growth, and they both
Speaker 3: grew so much it makes me cry. And also, I
Speaker 3: know you still don't watch Succession, But to all of
Speaker 3: the matrons who do watch Succession, this is just a
Speaker 3: little chat but tween me and you, because what a
Speaker 3: fun rewatch this is after you've seen I know I've
Speaker 3: like described this to a million times Kitlin, But mister
Speaker 3: Darcy on Succession plays the most cowardly man from the
Speaker 3: Midwest that you've ever seen in your life. Like he's
Speaker 3: just like a total Like it's hard to but he
Speaker 3: plays a character named like Tom womscans and Okay, you
Speaker 3: just have to see how different he is to fully
Speaker 3: and this is a feminist podcast, and I'm like, Matthew
Speaker 3: mcfattyan is the most talented actor in the world, but
Speaker 3: like he's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2: Is that how you say his name McFadyen.
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, which I only know because I watch all
Speaker 3: his Succession interviews because I'm a dork. He's so good
Speaker 3: and looks so different and it's also like whatever, fifteen
Speaker 3: years later, as Tom womscans that I didn't realize, for
Speaker 3: like the first season of Succession, that he was mister Darcy.
Speaker 2: Whoa.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm done praising men. But I love Matthew mcfaddyan,
Speaker 3: so pride and prejudice. Okay. We finally did it, and
Speaker 3: and we read the book. Read we read the book book,
Speaker 3: and we liked. Did you like? Did you I like?
Speaker 2: I don't like the book, which I'm sure is like heresy,
Speaker 2: it's blasphemy. I find it.
Speaker 3: Books are boring.
Speaker 2: Books are boring.
Speaker 3: No, I don't even think that's a controversial take point
Speaker 3: in society. Its books are famously boring.
Speaker 2: It is written in language that is old enough that
Speaker 2: I don't fucking understand a single word of it. There
Speaker 2: are too many characters, there's a lot of just like
Speaker 2: meandery story that doesn't really serve much of a function.
Speaker 3: We're not literary critics, okay.
Speaker 2: But I think the movie is a great example of
Speaker 2: like an adaptation that very effectively takes a book that
Speaker 2: I know is beloved, and I know it's great. I
Speaker 2: just didn't understand. I didn't enjoy myself when I was
Speaker 2: reading it. I found it confusing, and I don't know
Speaker 2: who any of the characters are. But I think the
Speaker 2: movie does a really good job of streamlining the story
Speaker 2: and like condensing things and like really focusing the narrative
Speaker 2: into a movie that wonder I've watched four times now.
Speaker 2: Weak it's so like, we'll get there.
Speaker 3: I will say that the reason a lot of the
Speaker 3: reason that the book is kind of feels like it's
Speaker 3: repeating itself constantly and like introducing random people is because
Speaker 3: it was released in three volumes. Oh yeah, that was
Speaker 3: like a regency novel thing where you would get the
Speaker 3: book in three chunks. So that's why I feel like
Speaker 3: at some points it's either repeating yourself or like characters
Speaker 3: that are in one section kind of disappear because you're like, well,
Speaker 3: it's kind of like the second volume of Pride and Prejudice,
Speaker 3: So these characters are here for now and then they're gone.
Speaker 3: I did enjoy listen. I mean we both listened to
Speaker 3: the Rosamond Pike Rosamond Pike, Rosamund Pike. I don't know
Speaker 3: Rosamond Pike audio book, which is a delight. It was
Speaker 3: really I was if matrons. If I'm sounding loopy today,
Speaker 3: it's because I am. I was just in Florida for
Speaker 3: a week.
Speaker 2: You're doing great.
Speaker 3: But I was in as in a hotel room in
Speaker 3: Tallahassee last weekend, listening to listening to the Pride and
Speaker 3: Prejudice audio book on like my portable speaker, and someone
Speaker 3: like banged on the wall and was like, turn it
Speaker 3: down because Rosmund Pike was just wailing. She was wailing
Speaker 3: about you know, I didn't realize that the walls were
Speaker 3: that thin, but it was a super it. So what
Speaker 3: can you do?
Speaker 2: I mean, and she's doing different voices. She's so versatile
Speaker 2: in her performance.
Speaker 3: I love that she loved being in Pride and Prejudice
Speaker 3: so much that she was like, yeah, one hundred percent,
Speaker 3: Like hmm, what a fun way to be, just like
Speaker 3: Jane Austen Cannon. Yeah, anyways, as you were saying, I
Speaker 3: think that this, yeah, this book, this movie. Sorry, because
Speaker 3: it was also adapted as a British mini series that
Speaker 3: I know people love. Uh that I was like, I
Speaker 3: thought I considered watching him, Like I already read a book.
Speaker 3: This is so damn long.
Speaker 2: I did watch the first half of the first episode
Speaker 2: and I do intend to finish it, but it is
Speaker 2: it is very long. Yeah, and I didn't have the
Speaker 2: patience for it, and then time ran out.
Speaker 3: We know what happens in the movie. Okay, like we
Speaker 3: know what happens in the story. But this is the
Speaker 3: Joe Wright two thousand and five adaptation starring I would
Speaker 3: say this is the millennial Pride in Prejudice. The mini
Speaker 3: series is the gen X Pride and Prejudice. Sure, sure,
Speaker 3: this is the millennial Pride and Prejudice. It's Kieran Knightley,
Speaker 3: it's Tom from Succession, It's Donald Sutherland, it's I kind
Speaker 3: of and it was kind of fun. I hadn't seen
Speaker 3: this movie, and well, okay, what's your history with it?
Speaker 3: I loved Pride and Prejudice in middle school. I loved
Speaker 3: Jane Austen in middle school. This was early into my
Speaker 3: you know, look, I'm not like other girls. And I
Speaker 3: was really, do you like books? Because I like book
Speaker 3: and reading, and so I was kind of cultivating. I
Speaker 3: was hacking away at that persona while. I was wearing
Speaker 3: a back brace because I really needed something else to
Speaker 3: be my thing. So, and I will say, if there's
Speaker 3: any twelve year olds looking for something to be their
Speaker 3: thing when they're wearing a back brace, I wouldn't recommen
Speaker 3: and books. It's not much cooler. Books in the opo
Speaker 3: are not going to make you more popular at school.
Speaker 3: I don't know what I was thinking, you know, but
Speaker 3: but I was really into trying to I mean it's
Speaker 3: I was really into it. That's like why Lolita podcast exists.
Speaker 3: I was really into like trying to read books that
Speaker 3: were a little out of my depth, but I just
Speaker 3: wanted to feel like I could read a big old book. Sure,
Speaker 3: so I read Jane Austen novels and I sort of
Speaker 3: understood them. And there are also so many this like
Speaker 3: this Pride and Prejudice came out right around the time
Speaker 3: I would have been trying to read it by myself,
Speaker 3: to the point that I have a really nice memory
Speaker 3: with my dad around this movie because this movie came
Speaker 3: out when I was in like sixth or seventh grade,
Speaker 3: and it was not how fun it was. Oh, I
Speaker 3: guess it was very financially successful. It made one hundred
Speaker 3: and twenty one million dollars, well.
Speaker 2: Off of a twenty eight million dollar budget. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: really good.
Speaker 3: But uh, it wasn't playing in my area at like
Speaker 3: the big amc Like, it wasn't playing at the big theaters.
Speaker 3: You had to like drive forty five minutes to like
Speaker 3: an independent movie theater to go see it. And I
Speaker 3: really wanted to see it, and I thought my dad
Speaker 3: was like, oh, I'll take you to like the local
Speaker 3: movie theater and we'll go. And then we looked it
Speaker 3: up and it wasn't playing, and originally he was like, sorry,
Speaker 3: I guess you'll just have to wait for it to
Speaker 3: come out on DVD. And I was like okay, And
Speaker 3: then the next day he like woke me up and
Speaker 3: he was like, I've changed my mind. We're gonna drive
Speaker 3: forty five minutes to see the movie, and so he like,
Speaker 3: I know, it was really nice. We went to this
Speaker 3: I need to remember what the name of it was
Speaker 3: in case any of the matrons live in Hangham, Massachusetts.
Speaker 3: But it was like this old. I'd never been to
Speaker 3: a movie theater like it before. It was like this.
Speaker 3: It wasn't like a multiplex cinema. It had like a
Speaker 3: balcony and I remember like, I'd never seen a movie
Speaker 3: theater with a balcony. And it was old and it
Speaker 3: was Pride and Prejudice, and Pride and Prejudice is old,
Speaker 3: and it it was like one of my favorite memory.
Speaker 3: I've like wrote about it in my journal. Its like
Speaker 3: top moments of two thousand and five, going to Fride
Speaker 3: and Prejudice with Dad sat in balcony like it was.
Speaker 3: It's just such a lovely memory. And I loved the movie.
Speaker 3: I used to own it on DVD when I was
Speaker 3: a kid, but I haven't seen it in a long time,
Speaker 3: like paying attention, and I was so relieved because nothing
Speaker 3: that you saw when you were twelve holds up. And
Speaker 3: I really loved watching this movie and I feel like
Speaker 3: I appreciated it even more because now I know a
Speaker 3: lot more about the filmmakers and the actors, and I
Speaker 3: can appreciate like the economy of storyteller, Like that's what
Speaker 3: I say, Yeah, this like but on all fronts, like
Speaker 3: the screenplay trims out characters that you don't like Miss
Speaker 3: like I kind of, and I really like the characters
Speaker 3: that they choose to scale back to, Like Miss Bingley
Speaker 3: is scaled way back from in the book where you
Speaker 3: get the idea where yeah, she's a snob, that's kind
Speaker 3: of all you need to know. She's a snob and
Speaker 3: she's and she's finagling and bageling the couples, right, and
Speaker 3: that's all you need to know. Yeah, the aunt and
Speaker 3: uncle they're nice, that's all you need to know. Really, Wickham,
Speaker 3: he's a snake. That's all you need to know. You
Speaker 3: don't need to spend all this time with Wickham. And
Speaker 3: then on top of that, I kind of forgot how
Speaker 3: much I really loved Joe Wright movies when I was
Speaker 3: like a teenager, because like Kia Knightley was his muse.
Speaker 3: She was in Anna Karanaa, which was okay, but like
Speaker 3: a teammate atonement. This movie confirmed to me that I'm
Speaker 3: gonna go see Sierra.
Speaker 2: I'm going to it.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I was gonna see it before, but now
Speaker 3: I'm super gonna see it because he like he in
Speaker 3: the in the DP, like they tell so much about
Speaker 3: the characters in just like one shot, like all the
Speaker 3: shots of the house where you get to know the
Speaker 3: characters in like one line of dialect, or like the
Speaker 3: shots of the parties where you like see these incredibly
Speaker 3: choreographed shots where it's like you learn about ten characters
Speaker 3: in the course of one shot, and it's just like beautiful.
Speaker 2: And that's cinema. As per Richard gear In, Chicago, and
Speaker 2: that's Chicago, and that's cinema.
Speaker 3: It's genuinely so good. And then the fact that it's
Speaker 3: like they cut out like I feel like every time
Speaker 3: and we talk about adaptations, it's about oh, and then
Speaker 3: they really inflated this random guy character from the book
Speaker 3: and now he's like a main character. But this movie
Speaker 3: does the opposite. It scales back random guys and gives
Speaker 3: you more sisters. It's still I would say.
Speaker 5: Gives you too much dad, But and I think that
Speaker 5: that is like I think my only major criticism of
Speaker 5: the movie is I feel like, based on what I
Speaker 5: was picking up from the book and then I like
Speaker 5: kind of verified this in a couple of essays, the
Speaker 5: Bennett parents are well intentioned, they love their children.
Speaker 3: But they're not amazing parents. They're very flawed parents, sure,
Speaker 3: and I feel like this movie makes that clear. But
Speaker 3: it gives Donald Sutherland Daddy a redemption arc at the end,
Speaker 3: and you're still supposed to think that the mom is
Speaker 3: like pretty silly and pretty like yeah, And I feel
Speaker 3: like in the book that arc, that arc didn't happen
Speaker 3: because you get that whole Donald Sutherland speech where he
Speaker 3: were and I mean, I was crying because it was
Speaker 3: really nice. But you know that doesn't happen in the book.
Speaker 3: He doesn't go like, I love my daughter so much
Speaker 3: and whatever you want is the right thing.
Speaker 6: Go off, queen, Like there's that a whole scene, right,
Speaker 6: which I wouldn't have minded if Missus Bennett got a
Speaker 6: similar kind of two thousand and five treatment. But I
Speaker 6: felt like Donald Sutherland daddy got this, like got this
Speaker 6: little this little flourish at.
Speaker 3: The end that he doesn't get in the book. And
Speaker 3: it's like, well, do both or do none?
Speaker 2: Right? I definitely have some thoughts about the parents and
Speaker 2: their relationship to each other and their relationship to their daughters. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so we can we'll get into.
Speaker 3: But Jenna Malone is in this movie Sprinkling of Americans
Speaker 3: Sprinkling because I was like, jennam alone, Donald's otherland, Canadian,
Speaker 3: Jenna alone American?
Speaker 2: Right, Well that thing happened where I was like, wait,
Speaker 2: has Jenna Malone secretly been English this whole time? And
Speaker 2: we just didn't know? But she just does a convincing
Speaker 2: English accent, So good for her.
Speaker 3: I think the first time I watched this movie, I
Speaker 3: did not know who Carrie Mulligan or Rosamund Pike were.
Speaker 3: I think I knew who Jennam Malone was because she
Speaker 3: was a child star who was in this movie called
Speaker 3: Stepmom starring Susan Sara.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah, I've seen it. I think I think
Speaker 2: early I know about it. Who knows. My brain is
Speaker 2: full of too many movies. I don't know what I've
Speaker 2: seen and what I haven't.
Speaker 3: So I like knew who she but like most of
Speaker 3: the everyone in this movie is famous, like.
Speaker 2: Everyone except for Mary, although maybe I'll bite my tongue.
Speaker 3: She was on West World. Oh she was on West World.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, she's not as famous. I have a whole
Speaker 2: like justice for Mary Bennett segment of my notes.
Speaker 3: But I see I liked because I felt like and
Speaker 3: maybe and again, books are long, and I will be
Speaker 3: the first to admit that between Mary, Kitty and Lydia
Speaker 3: like basically the sisters who aren't Jane and Elizabeth, sometimes
Speaker 3: I'd be like, wait, which one is which personality? Like
Speaker 3: it's kind of easy to lose track. But I felt
Speaker 3: like Mary was very visually distinct in the movie. I
Speaker 3: wish that she had more Yes, I wish we just
Speaker 3: knew what happened to her. But that's also kind of like,
Speaker 3: does Jane Austen tell us what happens to Mary? No?
Speaker 2: And I think that the book cares less about the
Speaker 2: Mary character than the movie does.
Speaker 3: What I loved about movie Mary is they kind of
Speaker 3: like style it Stickley speaking in two thousand and five terms.
Speaker 3: They kind of like hot topiced her. They were like,
Speaker 3: she's gone with our goth she's literally because she's kind
Speaker 3: of she reminds me of Lydia from Beetlejuice.
Speaker 2: Well, there's a scene where they're all at the Bingley
Speaker 2: estate and it's Missus Bennett and then the three youngest
Speaker 2: daughters all on a couch together, and the and Missus
Speaker 2: Bennett and Kitty and Lydia are all wearing pastels, you know,
Speaker 2: a lavender of pink, a light green. And then Mary's God,
Speaker 2: she's like in black and dark browns.
Speaker 3: I love her.
Speaker 2: She's the goth sister.
Speaker 3: And I also loved that, Like I don't know, like
Speaker 3: I just all of the characters in the book, but
Speaker 3: like especially in them. I've just been like triply impressed
Speaker 3: with how it's done in the movie because it's like
Speaker 3: less time and less baggage, but you still get I
Speaker 3: feel like an even clearer idea of who the characters are.
Speaker 3: I like that. It's like, even though Mary like comes
Speaker 3: off as very like standoffish and solemn and like alone
Speaker 3: her and she literally is like playing the piano all
Speaker 3: the time. I'm like, oh my god, hot topic, sister,
Speaker 3: but she also like you get to see her express emotion.
Speaker 3: Like she there's that moment in one of those amazing
Speaker 3: shots where she like starts crying and Donald Sutherland, because
Speaker 3: he's like not an emotionally intelligent dad, It's like, oh no,
Speaker 3: I made my daughter cry And this all happens in
Speaker 3: the background of a shot. It's like so amazing. I
Speaker 3: love this movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we check in on her, and yeah, to certain people,
Speaker 2: she might seem you know, standoffish or aloof or whatever.
Speaker 2: But it's just because like she's socially awkward. She's misunderstood,
Speaker 2: much like mister Darcy, I guess, except that he's also
Speaker 2: an asshole.
Speaker 3: Mister I mean, mister Darcy. Does he display growth? Yes?
Speaker 3: Does he display enough growth that I would have married him?
Speaker 3: In that moment, I want to say no. I want
Speaker 3: to say no, right, but also I want Elizabeth to
Speaker 3: be so happy it makes me cry. Like I love
Speaker 3: It's it's I feel like Elizabeth Bennett and like Joe March,
Speaker 3: like they're just like just characters that you're just like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily agree. I mean, I I like mister
Speaker 3: Darcy better than random guy that Joe Joe March ends
Speaker 3: up with random professor.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but but you know you're like, Okay, maybe I
Speaker 3: wouldn't have done the same thing, but you seem happy,
Speaker 3: and you've been through so much, and I want you
Speaker 3: to be happy. I just want Elizabeth Bennett to be happy, busy.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, she loves she loves her tall, awkward bangs. Husband.
Speaker 3: The bangs are a lot. The bangs are a lot.
Speaker 2: Wait on mister Darcy.
Speaker 3: On mister Darcy. Yeah, his hair, his hair.
Speaker 2: His head, his head.
Speaker 3: It's it makes me laugh because it is like there
Speaker 3: are I feel like for the most part, I mean, Joe,
Speaker 3: that's kind of like Joe Wright's thing. He creates these
Speaker 3: very engrossing, visually appealing period pieces. But you can still
Speaker 3: I feel like the one tell that it's two thousand
Speaker 3: and five or the two tells is that Kuran Nightley
Speaker 3: is the lead and mister Darcy's hair is flat ironed
Speaker 3: the whole movie. What is that? Why is his hair
Speaker 3: is straightened into bangs the way that a hot topic
Speaker 3: sister would do. I mean maybe that was also happening
Speaker 3: during the regency era, but I was like, this is
Speaker 3: what scene boys were doing at my middle school. Why
Speaker 3: is why' is sister Darcy doing it?
Speaker 2: I mean, some people's hair just lays like that.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know. We'll have to take
Speaker 3: it up with mcfaddyen. But okay, what's your history with
Speaker 3: Pride and Prejudice?
Speaker 2: I had seen it right around when it came out,
Speaker 2: just that one time, didn't ever read the book, did
Speaker 2: watch Bridget Jones's diary, and I had forgotten that it
Speaker 2: is a very loose adaptation of Pride Prejudice. So when
Speaker 2: I started reading the book, I was like, And then
Speaker 2: to clarify that I have a copy of the book,
Speaker 2: I listened to the Rosamund Pike. Basically I let her
Speaker 2: read it to me as I read along in the book,
Speaker 2: which is how I'm gonna read books from now on.
Speaker 2: Like I never I like, don't know why, I never thought,
Speaker 2: oh my God, to do that before?
Speaker 3: Please?
Speaker 2: And then like, but it's so much easier.
Speaker 3: You use the library a lot, get audiobooks from the library.
Speaker 3: That's literally how I do. Like, I wouldn't be able
Speaker 3: to do any research if I couldn't listen to audiobooks. Period.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking before. So
Speaker 2: that's how I'm gonna I'm just gonna like read along
Speaker 2: as some person reads at me. Also, So anyway, that's
Speaker 2: how I consumed the book. And then as I as
Speaker 2: I was consuming it, I was like, oh, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: this sounds this seems very familiar and sort of like
Speaker 2: what happens in Bridget Jones's diary. And then I was like, right,
Speaker 2: that is an adaptation of that. Okay, So I had
Speaker 2: seen the movie only once. I remembered two scenes from
Speaker 2: it and nothing else. I remember the scene where Darcy
Speaker 2: and Bingley are approaching the house for the first time.
Speaker 2: A frenzy ensues because they're like, oh my god, we
Speaker 2: have to make ourselves look presentable, and then they like
Speaker 2: pinch their cheeks a little bit to like, yeah, basically
Speaker 2: like give themselves some rouge. I distinctly remember that. And
Speaker 2: then the other scene I remember, which is one of
Speaker 2: my favorite scenes in the movie, and this also happens
Speaker 2: in the book where mister Collins has proposed to Elizabeth.
Speaker 2: She has said no, Missus Bennett is like, Lizzie, what
Speaker 2: the hell are you doing? You gotta say yes to
Speaker 2: this guy. I will never speak to you again if
Speaker 2: you don't marry him. And then mister Bennett is like, well,
Speaker 2: that's what your mom says. She'll never see you again
Speaker 2: if you don't marry him, and I'll never see you
Speaker 2: again if you do. And I was like, Bam, I.
Speaker 3: Mean cool, it's a good moment. And it's like that's
Speaker 3: straight from the book baby, Like mm hmm, that's a
Speaker 3: really effectively done scene. And yeah, I love Lizzie God.
Speaker 3: I just like and then, especially like with the historical
Speaker 3: context of like just how I don't know whatever, we'll
Speaker 3: talk about like women in general, I mean, and I
Speaker 3: love that this movie focuses on relationships between women quite
Speaker 3: a bit. Yeah, quite a bit. I mean, the book
Speaker 3: obviously does as well, but it also kind of goes
Speaker 3: off on these tangents. I feel like there's like I
Speaker 3: was getting so sick of Wickham because it's like you
Speaker 3: find out he's a snake and then he's just still
Speaker 3: around and you're like, who cares, We're done with him,
Speaker 3: he's a scammer. But the fact that it's like it's
Speaker 3: hard to reject anybody, but also like it wasn't just
Speaker 3: a rejection she was doing. It was like there were
Speaker 3: ties to her future, and there's ties to her like
Speaker 3: security physically, mentally, emotionally, and financially, financially, her family is
Speaker 3: all tied up in it as well, Like the stakes
Speaker 3: were so high, but she acted to her values. She's like,
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna marry this fucking asshole who I Also,
Speaker 3: I think that they added and I thought this was
Speaker 3: like a smart choice. I'm pretty sure in the book,
Speaker 3: does mister Collins say like, oh, I want to marry
Speaker 3: Jane and then they're like, oh, you can't, but you
Speaker 3: can marry Lizy. And then he's like, oh, okay, does
Speaker 3: he say that? I mean, I feel like he definitely
Speaker 3: like proposes to her. She says no, but I didn't
Speaker 3: think that there was a moment where he was like,
Speaker 3: Jane's my pick and they're like, sorry.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing about books is that I don't
Speaker 2: remember them, even though I read this one a week ago,
Speaker 2: So I have no fucking idea.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure, I mean, and feel free and briden
Speaker 3: prejudice had feel free to sound off in the comments,
Speaker 3: but I'm pretty sure that that doesn't happen. But again,
Speaker 3: it's like it's that's a really effective story point for
Speaker 3: the movie to make it clear that it's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: she should not marry this fucking guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah he sucks. Mm hmm. Should I do the recap?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Okay, I love this story me too.
Speaker 2: Okay. We are in the late eighteenth century, which is
Speaker 2: a slight deviation from the book because the book takes
Speaker 2: place I think in like eighteen twelve.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like at the time it was like the book
Speaker 3: was released or like, right, this is a modern book.
Speaker 2: Eighteen thirteen something when it came out is when it
Speaker 2: was published. Yeah, the movie, and this is like based
Speaker 2: on some choices from Joe Wright, the director. He said
Speaker 2: it back, I want to say, like maybe twenty or
Speaker 2: thirty years so it's like late seventeen hundred's rural England.
Speaker 2: We meet Elizabeth Bennett that's Karen Knightley of course, and
Speaker 2: her family, her elder sister Jane that's Rosamond, and her
Speaker 2: younger sister's kitty, Carrie. Mulligan, Lydia is Jennam alone and
Speaker 2: Mary who I didn't write down that actor because I'm
Speaker 2: a rude bit.
Speaker 3: Wow, I love her. You're like, she's the only one
Speaker 3: who's not famous.
Speaker 2: Justice for Mary.
Speaker 3: I don't know what her name is.
Speaker 2: I don't recognize her.
Speaker 3: Riley, thank you so much. She was in West World. Okay.
Speaker 2: Anyways, so they are all eves dropping on their mother,
Speaker 2: Missus Bennett played by Brenda Blethin, telling their father, mister
Speaker 2: Bennett played by Donald Sutherland.
Speaker 3: Mister Bennett, she's the most British person that's ever lived.
Speaker 2: Yes, so she's telling her husband, her husband that a
Speaker 2: rich young man and mister Bingley, mister Bingley has bought
Speaker 2: a nearby estate and also he's single, and they're all
Speaker 2: anticipating that one of the Bennett girls will marry mister Bingley,
Speaker 2: who will be coming to a ball that's being thrown.
Speaker 2: I don't know the following evening or sometime soon.
Speaker 3: I will say, of all the men in the story,
Speaker 3: if I had to get married to one of them,
Speaker 3: one hundred percent, mister Bingley, what a sweetie, so sweetye,
Speaker 3: a pushover, not the maybe not the brightest crayon in
Speaker 3: the box, but like, but what a sweetie. The way
Speaker 3: he looks at Jane, He's like, I love her so much.
Speaker 3: But then mister Darcy's like, don't marry her, and he's
Speaker 3: like okay, Like you're like, okay, come on.
Speaker 2: The part where he's like, I'm not a very good reader.
Speaker 2: I can read, and I'm not suggesting you can't read.
Speaker 2: Outside He's so cute.
Speaker 3: I loved mister Bingley. Also, he kind of disappeared too.
Speaker 3: I don't know what happened to him. Oh my gosh, wait,
Speaker 3: this is weat Sorry, I'm just on his Wikipedia page.
Speaker 3: The actor Simon Woods. Hmm. So he's a writer now,
Speaker 3: but he he dated Rosamond Pike for two thousand to
Speaker 3: two thousand and two, so not when this came out.
Speaker 3: Oh yes. And then now he's married to a man
Speaker 3: named Christopher Bailey who is like a fashion ceo. Okay,
Speaker 3: and he has two daughters and now he writes plays.
Speaker 3: But I was like, that's so bizarre that, like he
Speaker 3: dated Rosamund Pike and then they played lovers like three
Speaker 3: years after they broke up.
Speaker 2: Love that they're.
Speaker 3: Still cute together. I love mister Bingley. Yeah, he's so
Speaker 3: I would have such a crush on mister Bingley. You're like,
Speaker 3: it's okay, I believe you can read.
Speaker 2: Right, Okay. So at the ball, everyone is dancing, they're
Speaker 2: having a merry time. Then this mister Bingley shows up
Speaker 2: along with his sister Caroline and his friend mister Darcy.
Speaker 2: That's Matthew mcfadian. Is that how you say it? Fadien
Speaker 2: Fati mcfadian, who is very rich, even richer than Bingley,
Speaker 2: and who Elizabeth thinks looks miserable and unpleasant, and he does,
Speaker 2: and he does. He is thought to be too proud
Speaker 2: and prejudiced.
Speaker 3: He's so emo. He's like everyone's like hi, mister Jarcy.
Speaker 3: He's like l no, No, I'm like, dude, you're twenty eight,
Speaker 3: Like he can you just say hello?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 2: But then I'm like, maybe he's got social anxiety. Maybe
Speaker 2: he's got.
Speaker 3: Well he says he has social anxiety, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean obviously not a discussion back then, but like
Speaker 3: he but I feel like it's implied that it's like
Speaker 3: he has social anxiety and then deals with it by
Speaker 3: acting like he's too good for everyone, and that's like
Speaker 3: his cope. Because there's that scene where it's like he
Speaker 3: basically tells Elizabeth like I have a hard time talking
Speaker 3: to new people, right, and then she's kind of like, fuck,
Speaker 3: you leave me alone, And I'm like, well, given the
Speaker 3: fat how he's treated her, I get it. But also
Speaker 3: he is yeah, he like totally cops to being socially
Speaker 3: anxious for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But then I'm like, is he neurodivergent? Possibly? We
Speaker 2: don't know. They didn't understand these things back then, right,
Speaker 2: maybe something's going on as someone who especially like earlier
Speaker 2: in my life, people would make snap judgments about me
Speaker 2: because I was like socially anxious or uncomfortable, and I
Speaker 2: was like, sure, no, I'm actually nice. So I just
Speaker 2: found all that relatable. But then also like he insults
Speaker 2: her as he's proposing to her, So I'm like, actually,
Speaker 2: maybe he's an asshole.
Speaker 3: But also like many things, and I feel like that's
Speaker 3: a lot of the take like we can't say obviously,
Speaker 3: but like in this story, I feel like the fact
Speaker 3: that we can even have that conversation about a two
Speaker 3: hundred year old story is really cool because this is
Speaker 3: a story where two things can be true all the time,
Speaker 3: where it's like, yes, mister Darcy obviously has a level
Speaker 3: of social anxiety that he admits to in the book
Speaker 3: and the movie, but he also acts behind people's backs
Speaker 3: and is a total jerk in ways that is completely
Speaker 3: unrelated to his social anxiety and has everything to do
Speaker 3: with his like class bullshit. So this is just like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, I just think it's really cool that
Speaker 3: it's like we can have that discussion and then also
Speaker 3: be like but there were also moments in this story
Speaker 3: where he was straight up being an elitist jerk, which
Speaker 3: he later admitted and was like, and now I have
Speaker 3: to make things right because growth. Oh, mister Darcy, Yes, okay.
Speaker 2: So he shows up at the ball and he and
Speaker 2: Elizabeth share a look, but then Elizabeth overhears mister Darcy
Speaker 2: say about her that she's tolerable but not pretty enough
Speaker 2: to tempt him, which then she uses as ammunition in
Speaker 2: a little like mic drop comment to him later on.
Speaker 2: This is the beginning of the like will they won't
Speaker 2: they romantic tension between them.
Speaker 3: I love that shot, where like after Lizzie, which is
Speaker 3: this is like most of her mic dropped moments, not all,
Speaker 3: but like a lot of them are added in for
Speaker 3: the movie, and so she kind of Mic drops him,
Speaker 3: she repeats back the thing that she overheard him saying
Speaker 3: about her, and then there's like this long shot of
Speaker 3: her walking away and you almost like I just almost
Speaker 3: wanted like a music cue there of like ahh may moment,
Speaker 3: like she's like strutting away, like there's music playing, but
Speaker 3: it's like it's still a fucking harpist chord.
Speaker 2: Right right. I did find those moments very cathartic.
Speaker 3: They're fun, yeah, And I feel like it didn't like
Speaker 3: in the way that some when some older stories have
Speaker 3: like those like modern flourishes added, they really stick out
Speaker 3: because you're like, this doesn't feel consistent. But like with Lizzie,
Speaker 3: that's so who she is in the book, that like
Speaker 3: adding those moments feels very consistent with who.
Speaker 2: She is, right, yes, Okay. So then meanwhile, Elizabeth's sister
Speaker 2: j and mister Bingley seemed to be taking a liking
Speaker 2: to each other. Then Jane is invited to dine at
Speaker 2: mister Bingley's estate, where she has to stay for a
Speaker 2: few days after developing a cold on the way there,
Speaker 2: which missus Bennett basically orchestrates.
Speaker 3: I was like, that's evil, genius. She's like, no, you
Speaker 3: have to ride a horse, so you get sick, so
Speaker 3: you fall in love. You're like, mom, that's evil.
Speaker 2: Which mister Bennett, He's like, your skills for matchmaking are
Speaker 2: a cult.
Speaker 3: Missus Bennett. I mean, there's a lot to be said
Speaker 3: about her. I know, we'll get to it, but there
Speaker 3: are very few moments in the story where you get
Speaker 3: to be like, all right, I guess she pulled that
Speaker 3: one off, and like that was one of the few
Speaker 3: moments where it's unconventional what she does. But does it
Speaker 3: not work out for the best, you know? And then
Speaker 3: she's like, no one dies of a cult. That's fine.
Speaker 3: You're like Jesus.
Speaker 2: Right, right. So Elizabeth also goes to the estate to
Speaker 2: look after Jane while she's ill, and there she and
Speaker 2: mister Darcy interact. They are mostly nagging each other and
Speaker 2: they seem to hate each other, but also they seem
Speaker 2: to secretly love each other.
Speaker 3: Maybe mister Darcy keeps smirking and you're just like, he
Speaker 3: just keeps looking at her, like he ha ha ha.
Speaker 3: I'm like, do you know you love her yet?
Speaker 1: Do you?
Speaker 3: He does? He does, He totally does.
Speaker 2: Because like when she leaves, he like helps her into
Speaker 2: the carriage and like there's you know, just a spark
Speaker 2: when they touch hands. It's a whole thing.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 2: So then Elizabeth and Jane return home, and when they do,
Speaker 2: the Bennetts get news of a cousin, mister Collins, coming
Speaker 2: to visit. He is to inherit their estate after mister
Speaker 2: Bennett dies, since they only had daughters and women can't
Speaker 2: own property during this time, or there are certain circumstances
Speaker 2: in which you can, maybe, but it doesn't apply to
Speaker 2: them them. I don't really understand.
Speaker 3: I honestly, we didn't do. I mean, we already read
Speaker 3: a book, so don't yell at us like I appreciate
Speaker 3: how like Jane Austen, she doesn't like Russian novel style layout,
Speaker 3: like and here are the rules for forty pages of
Speaker 3: like what this actually meant? Because it seems like there
Speaker 3: are circumstances in which women can own property, but this
Speaker 3: isn't one of them, right for whatever reason. All you
Speaker 3: need to know is, like this is not one of
Speaker 3: Like mister Collins is getting it right for reason.
Speaker 2: For reasons because Lady Catherine de Bergh owns her estate,
Speaker 2: I think, but she's girl boss.
Speaker 3: But maybe that's because all the men died like it's possible, Yeah,
Speaker 3: because she's rich. It could because like all the guys
Speaker 3: who used to own it died Like we just don't know,
Speaker 3: simply don't know. But either way, the Bennett's sisters are
Speaker 3: shit out of luck and they have to give it
Speaker 3: to their rude cousin.
Speaker 2: Yes, and mister Collins intends on marrying one of the
Speaker 2: Bennett daughters because cousins be marrying each other in the
Speaker 2: olden dates, not in this case, thank goodness. Elizabeth seems
Speaker 2: like the best option for him. Meanwhile, the military is
Speaker 2: stationed in town and a lieutenant or a lieutenant Wickham
Speaker 2: also takes a liking to Elizabeth. They have some fun
Speaker 2: banter about ribbons.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: We learn that Wickham has an unpleasant history with mister Darcy,
Speaker 2: where Wickham tells Elizabeth that he and mister Darcy grew
Speaker 2: up together, that Darcy denied an inheritance that was promised
Speaker 2: to him because Darcy was jealous that his father loved
Speaker 2: Wickham more than his own son.
Speaker 3: Two things. This is such a I think, like on
Speaker 3: Jane Austen's part, such a like insightful dynamic that I
Speaker 3: feel like you don't see very often of like but
Speaker 3: something that like I've definitely experienced. They feel like it's
Speaker 3: a pretty common experience of like being so taken in
Speaker 3: by a very charismatic person who's talking shit that it
Speaker 3: isn't until you are like forced to take a step
Speaker 3: out of their like charisma to be like, wait a second,
Speaker 3: this person's full of shit, Like right, it's so and
Speaker 3: like Wickham is such a classic example of that. Also,
Speaker 3: my dad when we saw that movie, I got mad
Speaker 3: at him in the theater because he made fun of
Speaker 3: that ribbon scene in the theater and I got really
Speaker 3: embarrassed because he was like joking about how they were,
Speaker 3: like there's that shot where like Karen Knightley is like
Speaker 3: peeking from behind the ribbons and he's like, oh, come hither,
Speaker 3: but don't, but come hither but don't.
Speaker 2: And I was like, Dad, stop, Mike, don't make fun.
Speaker 2: Karen Knightley's awesome, Okay. So Wickham tells Elizabeth this, So
Speaker 2: now Elizabeth thinks that mister Darcy is even more awful
Speaker 2: than she thought he was before. Then the Bennett Ladies
Speaker 2: go to another ball at mister Bingley's estate, where Elizabeth
Speaker 2: hopes to see mister Wickham, but he is nowhere to
Speaker 2: be found. Who is there is the dreadful mister Collins,
Speaker 2: who wants to dance with Elizabeth, and so does mister Darcy.
Speaker 2: So they dance and she confronts him about being awful
Speaker 2: and he's like, you don't even know me.
Speaker 3: I love them.
Speaker 2: A short time later, mister Collins proposes to Elizabeth, which
Speaker 2: she force fully declines, and this is the scene where
Speaker 2: her mother is like, I'll never talk to you again
Speaker 2: if you don't accept his proposal, and her father is like,
Speaker 2: I'll never talk to you again if you do.
Speaker 3: Another great Across the boyd Lizzie scene where and I
Speaker 3: feel like this is like a feminist hero moment that's
Speaker 3: built into the book where you know, like there's this
Speaker 3: dynamic at this time where some times you would get
Speaker 3: denied once and it just meant, oh, I have to
Speaker 3: try hard, or I have to keep pushing, pushing, pushing
Speaker 3: no means yes, but also like this is a game,
Speaker 3: this is a dance and Lizzie in the book, and
Speaker 3: then also I thought Curinate is so good in that scene.
Speaker 3: She's like I'm not fucking around, Like yeah, no, I
Speaker 3: don't want to marry you. I would be miserable. You
Speaker 3: would be miserable, Like I'm not doing it, and don't
Speaker 3: tell me that no means yes, and don't not take
Speaker 3: me seriously. I just I love that scene.
Speaker 2: There are some things that I'm realizing upon like reading
Speaker 2: the book that like, and I mean, who knows when
Speaker 2: the mentality started of I think no actually means yes
Speaker 2: and if you say no, you're just being coy and
Speaker 2: flirty and playing hard to get. But I was surprised
Speaker 2: that something that I perceive as a modern bit of
Speaker 2: misogyny is not just a modern thing and it was
Speaker 2: happening for two.
Speaker 3: Hundred years ago, right right, and like Lizzie, and it's
Speaker 3: like it's I CA have to keep reminding myself as
Speaker 3: I'm like listening to the book of like that's an
Speaker 3: impressive thing to do right now. And the fact that
Speaker 3: Lizzy was doing it in eighteen twelve when it was like,
Speaker 3: I mean, just like the decision is like fifty times
Speaker 3: as big and she still stands her ground and is like, no,
Speaker 3: I said I don't want to marry you. I don't
Speaker 3: want to marry you, right, and then she has to
Speaker 3: do that a second time. Did mister Darcy I was like,
Speaker 3: oh god, I just love Lizzie so much. I love her.
Speaker 2: She's an icon.
Speaker 3: That scene in the Rain, We'll get there, but that
Speaker 3: scene in the rain, oh the music, Oh yeah, that
Speaker 3: scene is though. That's what stuck with me. The first
Speaker 3: time I saw the movie was like, the first rejection
Speaker 3: scene is so good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it. So mister Bingley and mister Darcy
Speaker 2: then leave I think mister Bingley's estate without mister Bingley
Speaker 2: proposing to Jane, which comes as a surprise to everyone,
Speaker 2: and Elizabeth thinks that mister Bingley's sister, Caroline is trying
Speaker 2: to persuade him to not marry her and to I
Speaker 2: think marry mister Darcy's sister instead. Is that the thing?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Like they're this this whole like the Bingley
Speaker 3: Darcy thing. It seems like, oh, we're gonna marry each
Speaker 3: other's sisters. Is this quote unquote smartest thing to do
Speaker 3: to keep rich people with rich people? Because miss miss
Speaker 3: Bingley is you know, I mean, this feels like an
Speaker 3: aggressive statement, but she's throwing herself at mister Darcy and clearly,
Speaker 3: I mean at the beginning of the movie and the book,
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, they kind of deserve each other. They're
Speaker 3: both fucking miserable people who have all these prejudice, who
Speaker 3: have all these like rude, evil class.
Speaker 2: All these prides and prejudices.
Speaker 3: I was gonna, yeah, like they have all these I'm like,
Speaker 3: you know what, fine, get married, miserable and rich, see
Speaker 3: if I care, right, But then mister Darcy grows and
Speaker 3: then the book Miss Bingley, it's like implied in the
Speaker 3: space of two sentences, eventually grows a little bit at
Speaker 3: the end.
Speaker 2: I forgot about that part too.
Speaker 3: Anyway, Yeah, they're like and eventually she kind of grew
Speaker 3: up and that was nice. You're like, all right, good
Speaker 3: for her.
Speaker 2: So yeah, Elizabeth's friend Charlotte, who we've seen in the
Speaker 2: movie before, but she is just not showing up in
Speaker 2: my recap.
Speaker 3: I love her.
Speaker 2: Charlotte ends up marrying mister Collins and Elizabeth goes to
Speaker 2: visit them, where Elizabeth meets Lady Catherine de Bergh aka
Speaker 2: Dame Judy.
Speaker 3: Dench oh and she is making a meal of her
Speaker 3: three scenes.
Speaker 2: So the director Joe Wright convinced Judy Dench to play
Speaker 2: this character by writing her a letter that said, quote,
Speaker 2: I love it when you play a bitch, please come
Speaker 2: and be a bitch for me. End of letter, and
Speaker 2: Judi Dench was like, sold, I'm there.
Speaker 3: I love that. That makes me so happy. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm smiling. I'm smiling.
Speaker 2: That rocks. So Elizabeth meets Lady Catherine de Bergh as
Speaker 2: well as her daughter and her nephew who is guess who,
Speaker 2: mister Darcy. Oh, and we get to know Lady Catherine
Speaker 2: a little bit. She is very emphasis on the prejudice
Speaker 2: part of pride and prejudice because she's extremely rich and
Speaker 2: elitist and classist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they wanted her to play a bit Caitlyn, and
Speaker 3: she did, and.
Speaker 2: She did it. So then mister Darcy and Elizabeth have
Speaker 2: a few awkward encounters. Again, it's clear that he loves her,
Speaker 2: and he seems to want to tell her something or
Speaker 2: maybe ask her something. But then she finds out that
Speaker 2: he quote unquote saved his friend mister Bingley from getting
Speaker 2: married to the wrong person because she came from an
Speaker 2: unsuitable family. And he is talking about mister Bingley not
Speaker 2: proposing to Jane and the Bennett family being unsuitable. So
Speaker 2: now Elizabeth hates mister Darcy even more. But then Darcy
Speaker 2: professes his love for Elizabeth, despite his better judgment, despite
Speaker 2: his family's expectations, and rain the rain. It's happening in
Speaker 2: the rain.
Speaker 3: It's a big deal, and it's happening despite his family's expectations,
Speaker 3: despite the inferiority of her birth, despite his rank and circumstance.
Speaker 2: He asks her to marry him, and she's like, what
Speaker 2: the hell? What about how you separated my sister from
Speaker 2: the man she loves. What about how you think I'm
Speaker 2: gross and poor and that my family is rude and improper?
Speaker 2: What about how you ruin mister Wickham's life. I love Lizzie.
Speaker 2: And he's like, well, yes, some of that is true,
Speaker 2: except some of it isn't and you don't know what
Speaker 2: you're talking about. Bye, and then he leaves.
Speaker 3: He literally is like Facebook two thousand and eight. It's complicated,
Speaker 3: like he's it's uh, Lizzy is doing things that I
Speaker 3: can't do in relationships right now, like she is. Just
Speaker 3: that scene is so satisfied, like and it's so well
Speaker 3: acted between both of them because you can you can
Speaker 3: see mister Darcy go in with his pride and pride,
Speaker 3: I mean he goes in vulnerable to begin with, but
Speaker 3: then when he's shot down like McFadyen, I mean, he's
Speaker 3: killing it, like he's so he's like surprised, and then
Speaker 3: he's like so hurt because he really loves her, but
Speaker 3: she's right, and like, how dare he come at her? Like, hey,
Speaker 3: I've it, you know, against all odds, I want to
Speaker 3: marry you. And she's like, well fuck you, Like I'm
Speaker 3: I'm awesome, Like I just.
Speaker 2: I love her, she's great.
Speaker 3: That scene fucked me up, Oh my god. And the
Speaker 3: fact that like I feel like that's just Joe Wright
Speaker 3: magic where he's like, and we're gonna just gonna put
Speaker 3: it in the rain just for because I don't I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't remember if that's I think that scene was
Speaker 3: inside Yeah, yeah, you're sure, Oh put it in the
Speaker 3: fucking rain. And then at the end of that scene,
Speaker 3: you're like, are they gonna kiss? Right?
Speaker 2: They like kind of move there, they like move toward
Speaker 2: each other as if to be like, well, I know
Speaker 2: we just screamed at each other, but should we kiss?
Speaker 3: But then they don't. They don't know, and they, i mean,
Speaker 3: they really make you wait for the kiss. The way
Speaker 3: that this movie ends is not how the book ends, right.
Speaker 3: The way that this movie ends. You know, this movie
Speaker 3: came out almost seventeen years ago, and I think about it,
Speaker 3: m miss Dascy. Oh anyways, sorry. Continue.
Speaker 2: So he leaves after getting his proposal rejected, and shortly
Speaker 2: thereafter he gives Elizabeth a letter in which Darcy he
Speaker 2: explains that Wickham is actually a degenerate gambler, and Darcy
Speaker 2: only did what he did with Bingley and Jane because
Speaker 2: he thought he was looking out for a friend, because
Speaker 2: he perceived Jane to be indifferent towards Bingley, because no
Speaker 2: one understands who anyone actually is, because people just make
Speaker 2: snack judgments in this movie, in this book.
Speaker 3: No, And he was so like and again you can
Speaker 3: see it on his face. When Elizabeth's like she's shy.
Speaker 3: Yeah that it cuts back to Darcy and he's like
Speaker 3: like oh, because you can see him register like, oh
Speaker 3: I'm shy. Oh I shouldn't.
Speaker 2: I should have seen this, I should have understood.
Speaker 3: Oh I intimately understand what she was doing, and yet
Speaker 3: I judged her anyways, like oh this it's a great story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So now Elizabeth has all these second thoughts,
Speaker 2: maybe Darcy is not that bad of a guy. After all,
Speaker 2: and then her sister Jane comes back home from London.
Speaker 2: Her sister Lydia goes to Brighton with the Forster family,
Speaker 2: who I guess are people that we're supposed to know
Speaker 2: who they are.
Speaker 3: I don't think we need I think I think that
Speaker 3: this movie is just like they're like, she's away, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: she's away.
Speaker 2: So then Elizabeth goes with her aunt and uncle to
Speaker 2: Darcy's estate because it's open to visitors, which is wild
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 3: I know, it's like rich people houses are literally just museums.
Speaker 2: But I get.
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess that's true if some places still,
Speaker 3: but I feel like the rich people don't actually live
Speaker 3: there anymore, Like they wouldn't just be like, oh, whoops,
Speaker 3: I didn't realize you were hanging today.
Speaker 2: They must be so rich in their house, so big
Speaker 2: that they can just have an entirely separate part of
Speaker 2: their house where they actually live in, and then another
Speaker 2: part where it's like, yeah, you can come and look
Speaker 2: at my fancy couch and statues. Fine.
Speaker 3: That was one of my favorite shots in the whole movie, though,
Speaker 3: when when Elizabeth, I mean spoiler, you're about to hit
Speaker 3: it in the recap where she's like walking around, walking around,
Speaker 3: and then it turns out Darcy is there, and then
Speaker 3: there's like this Hitchcock zoom on her where she's like ooh,
Speaker 3: and it like zooms in on her, and then she
Speaker 3: runs away. And I just love how many different sides
Speaker 3: of Lizzy's personality you see, because I feel like so
Speaker 3: often with these like feminist hero characters, which Lizzy Bennett
Speaker 3: is like in the fucking Mount Rushmore of feminist hero characters,
Speaker 3: but you also get to see these like moments where
Speaker 3: she's like vulnerable and she's kind of like that whole
Speaker 3: sequence in the book. And then also I feel like
Speaker 3: it kind of telegraphs clearly in the movie, like yes,
Speaker 3: she's like gonna stick to her guns no matter what.
Speaker 3: Her values are very clear and very strong. But also
Speaker 3: she's like, I don't know. I like that she like
Speaker 3: still has like an imagination and is like, but what
Speaker 3: if what would it what would it be like if
Speaker 3: I like lived here? And right entertains the thought and
Speaker 3: you get like that intimate moment of someone alone that
Speaker 3: I feel like with most like feminist characters and most heroes,
Speaker 3: you only see the side of them that is like
Speaker 3: very like, these are my values and I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't need no love and support in my life.
Speaker 3: Right right, that's like I'm literally a superhero. And it's
Speaker 3: like Lizzy Bennett could be by herself and sustain and
Speaker 3: be fine, and we know that, but it's also it's
Speaker 3: also I don't know, just like it's so cool and
Speaker 3: refreshing to see I mean, fucking two hundred year old story,
Speaker 3: but like to see her have those like moments alone
Speaker 3: of like, well, what would it be Like It's not
Speaker 3: like she's saying I'm going to do this, but just
Speaker 3: to see her kind of like process and consider what
Speaker 3: that life would be like for her and then to
Speaker 3: be taken off guard by him and then be like
Speaker 3: ool and like just have a moment of like, oh shit,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I didn't I thought your house was a museum.
Speaker 3: And so like I love that scene where she's she
Speaker 3: is just like fully panicking and it's like I just
Speaker 3: didn't think you would be at your house and he's like,
Speaker 3: well house, So like it's I just love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great scene. They're both so awkward. Okay,
Speaker 2: So yeah, we're about to get there where Elizabeth goes
Speaker 2: to Darcy's estate and Darcy doesn't appear to be there,
Speaker 2: or she doesn't think he's there, but he's returned a
Speaker 2: day early from where he was and she runs into
Speaker 2: him and it's really awkward, but they seem to be
Speaker 2: getting along a little bit better than usual, or at
Speaker 2: least they're just like, you know, propriety is getting the
Speaker 2: better of them.
Speaker 3: He's so happy to see her, Yes, he's so happy
Speaker 3: to see her. He's like, wait a second, you're at
Speaker 3: my freaking house.
Speaker 2: And he's being like, so are you staying nearby? And
Speaker 2: she's like, yes, I'm at this exact tavern or whatever,
Speaker 2: and he's like cool, cool, cool, good to know. And
Speaker 2: then he does show up there later, but just to
Speaker 2: invite Elizabeth and her aunt uncle to dinner the next day.
Speaker 3: I didn't feel like of I mean, there are things
Speaker 3: to talk about with the relationship, but I didn't ever
Speaker 3: feel like he was like stockery creepy, right he was.
Speaker 3: I feel like he was very respectful and when she
Speaker 3: set boundaries, he would like really take the note to
Speaker 3: the point where it's like at the end he's like,
Speaker 3: if you say no, I'll walk away right, Oh you'll
Speaker 3: never see me again. Yeah, no worries like, of all
Speaker 3: the men in the story, I feel like Darcy has
Speaker 3: the best understanding of boundaries because Collins is like, yeah, sure, no, right,
Speaker 3: of course you would have married me.
Speaker 2: Yeah no means yes actually yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, And Darcy's like, he's like almost extreme. He's like,
Speaker 3: I can't be your friend. There's no in between. You
Speaker 3: will never see me again and it will.
Speaker 2: Be like I died, you know, right, right right, yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: So he introduces Elizabeth to his sister Georgiana, but then
Speaker 2: Elizabeth receives a letter from Jane saying that their sister
Speaker 2: Lydia has run off with mister Wickham, that son of
Speaker 2: a gun.
Speaker 3: Lydia. Yeah, Lydia drives me up a wall, but also
Speaker 3: she's young. I feel, Okay, this is something that every
Speaker 3: time there is like a parenting issue brought up with
Speaker 3: the Bennetts. And I don't mean to like it's hard.
Speaker 3: I mean and it speaks to the strength of the
Speaker 3: story that this is hard, because everyone in this story
Speaker 3: is very complicated and has like multiple things going on.
Speaker 3: But I do feel like, you know, missus Bennett is
Speaker 3: so made to look so silly by the story, and
Speaker 3: she is like not kind to her children, I don't
Speaker 3: mean to say that she's a perfect mother in disguise,
Speaker 3: like she's not. But I feel like a lot of
Speaker 3: where her anxiety comes from, or where some of her
Speaker 3: anxiety comes from, is anytime people talk about like, oh,
Speaker 3: the Bennett sisters are being reared so poorly, the onus
Speaker 3: is put very much on her versus mister Bennett, and
Speaker 3: so like when Lydia runs off, I feel like missus
Speaker 3: Bennett always has an outsized reaction to when one of
Speaker 3: the daughters is being harshly judged. But I do feel
Speaker 3: like that's also connected to when whenever you hear like
Speaker 3: one of the richer characters, especially like Lady Catherine is
Speaker 3: the person who does that the most in that really
Speaker 3: aggressive dinner conversation. Mister Bennett doesn't even come up in
Speaker 3: those conversations. It's like, oh, your mother fucked up, like
Speaker 3: your mother failed, and like that's where it's not like
Speaker 3: it's not conceivable in this class at this time that
Speaker 3: it's like, if you have five daughters, they're all going
Speaker 3: to be very different, which clearly Jane Austen knows because
Speaker 3: she had wrote five daughters, and she wrote them to
Speaker 3: all have very different personalities. But like in the eyes
Speaker 3: of this like class and this story, it's like, oh,
Speaker 3: if any daughter does anything wrong, it's like a failure
Speaker 3: of the mother. And so it's like missus Bennett very
Speaker 3: much has a victim complex, and I feel like she
Speaker 3: doesn't take accountability for when she does fuck up. But
Speaker 3: also I was trying to like stay cognizant of the
Speaker 3: fact that like mister Bennett is so dismissive of stuff
Speaker 3: in a lot of cases. But it's also like because
Speaker 3: he doesn't carry the blame for most of it like
Speaker 3: his wife does.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I have complicated feelings about missus Bennett in particular. Well,
Speaker 2: I guess both parents, but like, sure, she is such
Speaker 2: a product of her environment. Yeah, totally, and again which
Speaker 2: is a like such a rigid patriarchal structure, and which
Speaker 2: gets commented on here and there in the movie, Like
Speaker 2: there's a scene where she's you know, talking about one
Speaker 2: of I forget which one, but it's like one of
Speaker 2: the daughters getting married, and Elizabeth is like, is that
Speaker 2: all you think about or is that all you talk about,
Speaker 2: like us getting married? And she's like, well, when you
Speaker 2: have five daughters, like come back to me. And then
Speaker 2: you'll understand, like you'll you'll understand because of the circumstances
Speaker 2: of like back in this time, women needed, like literally
Speaker 2: needed a marriage in most cases to secure any stability
Speaker 2: in their life financially or else because because again, women
Speaker 2: were considered property. They couldn't own anything, like, they had
Speaker 2: no opportunities for making their own way in the world
Speaker 2: because of how few rights women had back then. So
Speaker 2: that's like where her concern comes from.
Speaker 3: But then it's also like at the expense of her
Speaker 3: daughter's personalities and desires and wants, and so it's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it's so uh, like the story is so good.
Speaker 3: It's so complicated because you can like put yourself in
Speaker 3: her head and be like, I understand why she's doing
Speaker 3: what she's doing, but like, obviously this is not the
Speaker 3: way to do it. But then also I don't think
Speaker 3: that she I have like more issues with mister Bennett
Speaker 3: than I was expecting to, because I also don't think
Speaker 3: that like mister Bennett is so disinterested in how his
Speaker 3: wife is processing things where he kind of like he
Speaker 3: loves her, but he like tolerates her like a joke, right,
Speaker 3: Like he's he's like, oh, you do this, this is you,
Speaker 3: and it's like, but do you ever think of like
Speaker 3: like like you were saying, she's such a product of
Speaker 3: her environment, and I feel like she like if they
Speaker 3: were working more as a team, then she may not
Speaker 3: be so you know, inclined to be pushy with her
Speaker 3: kids because it's like, well, if they were working as
Speaker 3: a as a team, then you know, like unfortunately, because
Speaker 3: of the gender dynamics at this time, mister Bennett could
Speaker 3: act in his daughter's best interest. And like they just
Speaker 3: act like it's a rough marriage. I mean, I just
Speaker 3: get the feeling that that's a rough marriage. And it's
Speaker 3: like it's not. It's not loveless. Marriage is complicated. Relationships
Speaker 3: are complicated. Like it's not like I do believe that
Speaker 3: they love each other, they care about each other, but
Speaker 3: their dynamic is like not beneficial to their kids at all.
Speaker 3: And I think that mister Bennett is like like I
Speaker 3: feel like negligent is maybe an overstatement, but like he's
Speaker 3: just just dismissed a lot. He's checked out. Yeah, like
Speaker 3: he's like, oh I'm I'm reading, so I can't I
Speaker 3: can't think about anyone's feelings. And it's like, well, that
Speaker 3: puts a lot on your wife. And also that means
Speaker 3: that like that not only puts a lot on your wife,
Speaker 3: it also you know, because of how the society is structured,
Speaker 3: if things don't work out, he's not going to bear
Speaker 3: the brunt of the criticism like she will. And so
Speaker 3: I feel like it's inconsiderate of him to his spouse
Speaker 3: to be so checked out because it's like she's gonna
Speaker 3: have to take the shit. And then he's also like, oh,
Speaker 3: you're so silly, You're so like and she is, but
Speaker 3: like I feel like she's like it's it's a combination.
Speaker 3: But like I feel like part of the reason why
Speaker 3: she acts so silly, quote unquote is because she's acting alone,
Speaker 3: Like she's acting basically like a single parent right to
Speaker 3: help her kids out, and like it's coming from this
Speaker 3: place of anxiety and in partially a selfish way for
Speaker 3: sure of like, what's going to happen to our family
Speaker 3: if this fucking random guy who is obsessed with Judy
Speaker 3: Dench can just take our property at any time? And
Speaker 3: I feel like that is like referenced in the movie
Speaker 3: and the book, but like it's implied that Collins can
Speaker 3: just take the house whenever he wants, and so I
Speaker 3: understand through the time why missus Bennett would be like,
Speaker 3: we have to secure something better than mister Collins in
Speaker 3: this family at some point. Otherwise mister Collins can just
Speaker 3: like displace us from our home and we would be
Speaker 3: without a home, which mister Bennett seems I would say
Speaker 3: weirdly indifferent about. Yeah. I was like, well, you would
Speaker 3: also be displaced.
Speaker 2: Well, no, because he would be dead. Oh, it's my understanding.
Speaker 2: And again I don't understand all of the nuances of
Speaker 2: this era in terms of like who inherits what and
Speaker 2: when and who can and cannot own property, blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: But I think the movie pretty clearly lays out that
Speaker 2: when mister Bennett dies, that's when mister Collins will inherit. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 2: so they have to secure marriages for the daughters prior
Speaker 2: to mister Bennett dying.
Speaker 3: Wait I didn't even ca yeah, because they keep referencing
Speaker 3: oh my god. Okay, so that makes.
Speaker 2: Him even worse. Like I don't know, right, I am.
Speaker 3: Not like, I don't think either of them are amazing parents,
Speaker 3: but I do think that mister Bennett is worse because
Speaker 3: I'm like, if I'm mister Bennett, and I have five
Speaker 3: children and a spouse who, by the rules of the time,
Speaker 3: will be displaced if I die. Before I die, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna want to make sure they're good, right, I know,
Speaker 3: But he's the opposite. And then and so I that's
Speaker 3: part of the reason why I know we're still in
Speaker 3: the recap, but also we're kind of doing we're kind
Speaker 3: of doing the whole episode right now. Yeah, but like
Speaker 3: that's part of the reason why I got kind of
Speaker 3: annoyed that the movie and this felt kind of studio notes, ye,
Speaker 3: and it kind of felt like my guess is, like, well,
Speaker 3: Donald Sutherland took the role, don't make him look mean.
Speaker 3: And the reason I guess that was because Donald Sutherland
Speaker 3: was in a stage adaptation of Lolita in which he
Speaker 3: played Humbert Humbert, and he demanded that Humbert Humbard be
Speaker 3: more sympathetic because he didn't want to appear unsympathetic in public.
Speaker 3: So this is a thing for like Donald Sutherland specifically
Speaker 3: where he will accept a role of I mean, obviously,
Speaker 3: like mister Bennett isn't Humbert Humbert, but like not the
Speaker 3: most sympathetic character in the world, sure, and then demand
Speaker 3: that the character be retrofitted to be more sympathetic. I
Speaker 3: just like, I know that this is a thing with
Speaker 3: Donald Sutherland, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is
Speaker 3: a studio it's thing, but I feel like it's it's
Speaker 3: actually like pretty fucking selfish of mister Bennett too, Yeah,
Speaker 3: to be so checked out and then then but then
Speaker 3: to get that like little flourish of like and I
Speaker 3: love my daughter so much, like at the end, it's like, well,
Speaker 3: that's interesting because two months ago you were willing to
Speaker 3: have your entire family be possibly displaced if one fucking
Speaker 3: random guy gets in a bad mood one day and
Speaker 3: you're not accountable for that, Like, fuck you. Sorry, I'm
Speaker 3: anti mister Bennett.
Speaker 2: My thought is, and I completely agree with you, and
Speaker 2: we are able to like see these things about him
Speaker 2: and his choices and behavior and identify them as awful. However,
Speaker 2: I think that this type of thing was so normalized
Speaker 2: in this era that no one even sure batted an
Speaker 2: eyelash about it. Everyone's just like, well, yeah, this is
Speaker 2: a woman's role in society to be a mother and
Speaker 2: to be the primary caregiver for her children, especially in
Speaker 2: terms of emotional support and worrying about their future and
Speaker 2: teaching daughters how to be quote unquote proper women and
Speaker 2: how to find husbands. That's what women and mothers do,
Speaker 2: and because of rigid gender roles, men weren't expected to
Speaker 2: have to deal with anything like that. Yeah, and then
Speaker 2: just the way society was structured, the way that the
Speaker 2: patriarchy was such a crushing presence. No one thought to
Speaker 2: criticize that or question it or think it was weird
Speaker 2: or to expect anything else. Yeah, well not no one,
Speaker 2: but like most people, I would say, it was just
Speaker 2: like such the norm. So again, like we're looking at
Speaker 2: this stuff with our like twenty two and I'm not
Speaker 2: like this is not in defense of like mister Bennett
Speaker 2: or anything like that, but like, no, I think that
Speaker 2: the movie portrays it this way because like that was
Speaker 2: realistic for the time, and that was just like the
Speaker 2: norm and expectation of the time.
Speaker 3: I totally agree with you, you know, I God, I'm
Speaker 3: so glad. God I love pride and prejudice. Like, I'm
Speaker 3: so happy we're like having these discussions because I totally
Speaker 3: agree with you. And then I feel like it does
Speaker 3: in a way that Jane Austen seemed uniquely aware of
Speaker 3: right in a way that like possibly Joe Wright and
Speaker 3: Deborah Mogok or possibly studio knows, you don't know whatever
Speaker 3: Donald Sutherland's agents, possibly, but in a way that even
Speaker 3: in two thousand and five wasn't totally clear, where they
Speaker 3: like turn up the sympathy knob for mister Bennett in
Speaker 3: a way that I mean, at least for me as
Speaker 3: a as a twelve year old viewer, I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: dads are like and this is something that we talk
Speaker 3: about on the show all the time, and it's it's
Speaker 3: complicated by the fact that it's such an old story,
Speaker 3: but like, the dads are more sympathetic than mom's trope
Speaker 3: that comes up all the time, you know, without any
Speaker 3: context of like why a father's role may be considered
Speaker 3: considerably easier and less complicated than a mother's role because
Speaker 3: of the systemic forces being pushed against a mother. Right,
Speaker 3: And I feel like this du like it almost felt
Speaker 3: like Jane Austen for me in the way that the
Speaker 3: final draft of the movie, however that happened. I felt
Speaker 3: like Jane Austen had it more right than the movie
Speaker 3: and that in a way that I think the movie
Speaker 3: mostly gets everything and like kind of trims the fat
Speaker 3: and like really just makes it a good two hour
Speaker 3: experience right right, And this movie didn't feel too long. Weirdly,
Speaker 3: I know, it was like, oh, two hours and that
Speaker 3: was all I.
Speaker 2: Needed, unlike every movie in theaters right now, because they're
Speaker 2: all two and a half hours and I'm just sitting
Speaker 2: there being like, you could have cut this, you could
Speaker 2: have cut that. Why is this shot so long? But
Speaker 2: like this, I have no patience these days.
Speaker 3: This movie is like kind of perfect. But like one
Speaker 3: of the ways that I didn't I the addition of
Speaker 3: the sympathetic dad. I felt like Jane Austen was more
Speaker 3: on the nose where she didn't offer that kind of
Speaker 3: absolution to either parent. But what I thought was interesting
Speaker 3: was like in the movie there is like this element
Speaker 3: of Lizzy specifically. And this also feels like just because
Speaker 3: we're doing an Emma episode next and I've been listening
Speaker 3: to the Emma audiobook and Emma's my favorite Jane Austen
Speaker 3: novel and it's also clueless, So like all I have
Speaker 3: to say, like Jane Austen heroins will often, you know,
Speaker 3: take on other people's problems to avoid dealing with their own,
Speaker 3: a problem that you know persists for people to this day,
Speaker 3: but I did think it was like a recognizable thing
Speaker 3: that like in the movie and in the book, Elizabeth
Speaker 3: is very often taking on the problems of her relatives
Speaker 3: for like very urgent reasons, but also to avoid confronting
Speaker 3: her own feelings. She's like, well, I'm busy because Jane
Speaker 3: and Bangley, or like I'm busy because my mom is
Speaker 3: embarrassing us, or I'm busy because my dad is completely
Speaker 3: checked out, and we do at least like you do
Speaker 3: get to see that scene where Lizzie goes to her
Speaker 3: dad and is like, are you looking out for Lydia
Speaker 3: at all? Like, and I think that, like there's us
Speaker 3: five years ago maybe wouldn't have understood this completely, but like,
Speaker 3: you know, she goes to her dad and she's like,
Speaker 3: Lydia is like ruining the reputation of the family by
Speaker 3: just like kind of running wild, which is an inherently
Speaker 3: sexist statement, but in the context of the time, Lizzie
Speaker 3: is trying to look out for Lydia and her sisters
Speaker 3: and the entire family and is like, I felt like,
Speaker 3: at her core like criticizing her father for being like,
Speaker 3: why are you doing nothing? Why are you so indifferent
Speaker 3: every day of your life? Right? And it literally is
Speaker 3: just because it's like you're saying, like he's like, well,
Speaker 3: when I die, who gives a shit? And it's like, well, okay,
Speaker 3: so you just like keep telegraphing to the whole family
Speaker 3: that you don't give a shit about them because your
Speaker 3: whole family is women, and because of the time and
Speaker 3: place that you live, they will be endangered and displaced
Speaker 3: if you spend this time doing nothing. And I feel
Speaker 3: like that's what Lizzie is trying to say, and she
Speaker 3: can't quite get through to him, and it's like so,
Speaker 3: but but like, yeah, I don't know whatever she's parenting
Speaker 3: her parents and then which.
Speaker 2: We all end up doing at some point as adults, I.
Speaker 3: Know, but Lizzie's twenty. I'm like, oh my god, could
Speaker 3: she like live for two seconds.
Speaker 2: She's middle aged by eighteenth or nineteenth century standards.
Speaker 3: She's forty five basically Okay, sorry, we haven't finished the recap,
Speaker 3: but I feel like we've had a lot of parent discussions.
Speaker 2: So that's good, that's true. Yes, indeed, so Elizabeth receives
Speaker 2: the letter from Jane saying that their sister has run
Speaker 2: off with mister Wickham. Elizabeth is devastated. Elizabeth returns home,
Speaker 2: where her mother is crying about their family being ruined
Speaker 2: because a young woman running away with a man that
Speaker 2: she's not married to is very improper and could ruin
Speaker 2: the reputation of the entire family. But then the family
Speaker 2: gets news that Lydia has been found and that she
Speaker 2: and mister Wickham are married, and it seems that their
Speaker 2: uncle found them and squared everything away. But Elizabeth learns
Speaker 2: that it was actually mister Darcy who paid for the
Speaker 2: wedding and fixed the whole situation, and then he.
Speaker 3: Goes, I hope you know it's all for you, And
Speaker 3: then I wrote it down to my notes that mister
Speaker 3: Darcy's love language is acts of service. It literally, I mean,
Speaker 3: which is I mean? Honestly, I wouldn't even hand it
Speaker 3: to him on that one, because every rich guy's love
Speaker 3: language is acts of service. That's the least effort love language, right,
Speaker 3: give me a fucking break.
Speaker 2: Sorry, No, it's true anyways, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3: Guys are awesome.
Speaker 2: Then the family learns that mister Bingley is returning to
Speaker 2: town he and Darcy pay a visit to the Bennetts.
Speaker 2: Bingley is clearly working up the nerve to propose to Jane,
Speaker 2: but he can't go it through with it, and then
Speaker 2: he leaves, but then he comes back and finally follows
Speaker 2: through on the proposal. Jane says, he.
Speaker 3: Goes yes, yes, a thousand times, a thousand times, and
Speaker 3: she's so happy.
Speaker 2: And this is yet another thing that Darcy seems to
Speaker 2: have fixed, which he fucked up before and which Elizabeth
Speaker 2: confronted him about. Then Lady Catherine de Bergh pays Elizabeth
Speaker 2: a visit. She seems to think that Elizabeth and Darcy
Speaker 2: are engaged, and she will not hear of it because
Speaker 2: she thinks that Elizabeth sucks and is undeserving of Darcy.
Speaker 2: And Elizabeth is like, actually, you're the one who sucks.
Speaker 2: Now get out what very ball or move love?
Speaker 3: It very exciting.
Speaker 2: Then Darcy shows up and he's like.
Speaker 4: You have bewitched me body and soul, and I still
Speaker 4: love you?
Speaker 2: Is there any chance that really like me?
Speaker 3: You're sorry, you're just like really doing a great job.
Speaker 2: His I mean his delivery.
Speaker 4: You have bewitched me body and soul, and you're like.
Speaker 3: Oh, maaty and you're like, oh, oh my god, give
Speaker 3: me a just give me one kiss. See what happens
Speaker 3: if you give me just one.
Speaker 2: So he's like, I understand if you still hate me,
Speaker 2: but is there any chance that now you might like me?
Speaker 2: And she's like, actually, yes, I love you. Let's nuzzle
Speaker 2: each other.
Speaker 3: They do nosies. It's they do noses and like a
Speaker 3: perfectly choreographed shot in the sunlight, and you're just like,
Speaker 3: I am gonna die. It's so sweet, and it's like
Speaker 3: it's so rare that like an enemy is to lover's
Speaker 3: story feels I feel like, I mean, I feel like,
Speaker 3: you know, with any enemy as a lover story, there's
Speaker 3: always gonna be a few hitches, sure, but this is
Speaker 3: in the upper percentile. It is like as close to
Speaker 3: earned as you can get, because it's like it's time,
Speaker 3: it's growth. I still think that like Darcy doesn't fully
Speaker 3: deserve her. I like to think that he's spends the
Speaker 3: rest of his life working towards deserving her more.
Speaker 2: Yes, but which I think it ends on a note
Speaker 2: that that seems very likely.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh damn, I'm gonna cry.
Speaker 2: I just okay. So they're nuzzling each other, and then
Speaker 2: they get their blessing to marry each other from mister Bennett,
Speaker 2: and then Elizabeth and Darcy get married off screen, and
Speaker 2: the movie ends with them enjoying a romantic evening together
Speaker 2: and like deciding which pet names they should have, and.
Speaker 3: Then he gives her a little kiss. Oh they love
Speaker 3: little tiny faith kisses. Missus Darcy's missus, Darsy's dosy Like,
Speaker 3: it's just oh my god, that I mean, twelve years
Speaker 3: old Backbraize, never been kissed in my life. I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to this. I guess what, it doesn't happen.
Speaker 2: It didn't happen. Yeah, well, no, that's life. Okay, that's
Speaker 2: so what have we not already covered?
Speaker 3: Oh? Boy? I feel like we kind of covered the
Speaker 3: parents at this point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've talked.
Speaker 3: A lot about Lizzie and Dark, but I guess, let's like,
Speaker 3: put a bow on Lizzia and Darcy. Is there other
Speaker 3: stuff that you wanted to talk about with Lizzie and Darcy.
Speaker 3: I just felt like we're so accustomed to seeing stories
Speaker 3: where men never apologize, never acknowledged that they were wrong
Speaker 3: to do something, and this dynamic because of who Lizzie
Speaker 3: is demands like she will not engage with him until
Speaker 3: he acknowledges like I disrespected you, I disrespected your family,
Speaker 3: And I genuinely was like I have to take notes
Speaker 3: from her, Like she disconnects from him for long periods
Speaker 3: of time because she's like, well, you know, like it's
Speaker 3: clear that she there's something going on there. But she's
Speaker 3: just like, but if you're not being respectful to the
Speaker 3: most important people in my life, my sister, specifically her
Speaker 3: relationship with Jane, and like judging my family and being
Speaker 3: a classiest asshole, and it's like, it doesn't matter if
Speaker 3: there's like an attraction between us, it's never gonna happen.
Speaker 3: Like they're are just like her boundaries are so firm
Speaker 3: with the people that she loves, and I just I
Speaker 3: just love that, Like I just that's amazing in any
Speaker 3: era and I and I and I love that, Darcy,
Speaker 3: does you know her? Her being so firm and who
Speaker 3: she is in some ways kind of pushes him to
Speaker 3: have to grow because he's like, oh, well, I really
Speaker 3: want to be in this woman's life, but she's not
Speaker 3: going to interact with me unless I like look at
Speaker 3: the darkest parts of myself basically, but then he does,
Speaker 3: I mean, and it's like it's he's not one hundred
Speaker 3: percent by the end of the story. But I just
Speaker 3: feel like that's a rare dynamic to see portrayed in
Speaker 3: any story of like a woman really holding her own
Speaker 3: in what her values are and a man and this
Speaker 3: is you know, obviously this is a very heterosexual story
Speaker 3: in heterosexual time in terms of popular storytelling, right, But
Speaker 3: like he is forced to look at himself and improve
Speaker 3: and do better and like and then actually like is
Speaker 3: on the way to that by the end of the story. Like,
Speaker 3: I just it's, yeah, it's shocking for twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: I know most men won't do that, you know, And
Speaker 2: he was true. This is another thing I have complicated
Speaker 2: feelings about because on one hand, I mean, I love
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Bennett. She's smart, she's funny, she's got a quick wit,
Speaker 2: she isn't afraid to speak her mind. In a time
Speaker 2: period and in a culture where these things were not
Speaker 2: really valued of women.
Speaker 3: Dangerous to speak your mind in this time if you're well,
Speaker 3: you could be fucked for life.
Speaker 2: Right, And despite those things, like she still has strong
Speaker 2: convictions and strong opinions, and she voices them, and she's
Speaker 2: so good at comebacks to a point where I'm like,
Speaker 2: I gotta take notes about that, because her comeback game
Speaker 2: is amazing. She's like not really sold on the idea
Speaker 2: of not necessarily romantic love, because she says at one
Speaker 2: point like only the deepest, strongest love would drive me
Speaker 2: to matrimony, and therefore I think I'll end up an
Speaker 2: old maid because men are humorless poppy cocks slash men
Speaker 2: are either eaten up with arrogance or stupidity. If they
Speaker 2: are amiable, they are so easily led they have no
Speaker 2: minds of their own whatsoever. So she does not have
Speaker 2: a very high opinion of men in general. Mister Darcy
Speaker 2: comes along. He seems like just like all the other boys,
Speaker 2: like too proud, and you know he's prejudiced to prejudice.
Speaker 2: He seems miserable. She notices it right away, or at
Speaker 2: least that's her perception of him, that's her first impression.
Speaker 2: Then then there's a scene where he talks about how
Speaker 2: he hardly knows any accomplished women because by his standards,
Speaker 2: a woman has to have a thorough knowledge of you know,
Speaker 2: music and drawing and dancing in languages and she has
Speaker 2: to improve her mind by extensive reading, which Elizabeth does do.
Speaker 2: She loves books, and I wonder if Jane Austen was
Speaker 2: kind of the first sort of perpetrators of the trope.
Speaker 2: Girl is not like the other girls because she likes
Speaker 2: books anyway, So he's like kind of carrying on about
Speaker 2: you know, I would only consider a woman who has
Speaker 2: all these qualities, and she's like, how do you even
Speaker 2: know any women like that? And he's like, okay, I
Speaker 2: guess you hate women. And then she's like, no, you
Speaker 2: just have ridiculous high standards, which she doesn't actually really say,
Speaker 2: but I feel like that's what's implied in that conversation.
Speaker 2: So like we learn about his just kind of I
Speaker 2: guess prejudice against women, his like standards that are too high.
Speaker 2: But meanwhile he's like falling in love with her, so
Speaker 2: you know, he's confused.
Speaker 3: But also I feel like he's doing the thing that like,
Speaker 3: I mean, and again it's like I feel like it's
Speaker 3: rewarded in the context that he's doing it, where it's like, oh,
Speaker 3: his standards are very high, but he's doing the thing
Speaker 3: that people do of all genders, where they set standards
Speaker 3: so high that they're unattainable and they never need to
Speaker 3: emotionally engage with someone because they're like, well, no one's
Speaker 3: going to be good enough for me, so I guess
Speaker 3: I'm just going to be alone forever. And it's like, well, no,
Speaker 3: you're actually just scared.
Speaker 2: Wow, it's true.
Speaker 3: He's he's scared. He's scared, but it's like because of
Speaker 3: his class and his gender, he's rewarded as like, oh,
Speaker 3: you're being but if you put that attitude into so
Speaker 3: many other people of that era, it would be received
Speaker 3: so didly.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 2: Yes, So there's that conversation, and then after she calls
Speaker 2: him out several times for being unpleasant and too proud
Speaker 2: and all of this and too prejudice, he like seems
Speaker 2: to start to see the error of his ways, and
Speaker 2: she is like maybe not intentionally on her part, but
Speaker 2: like he does seem to be displaying growth and he's
Speaker 2: doing some self reflecting and being like wow, maybe.
Speaker 3: And it's like active, it's not accidental.
Speaker 2: But then the like the midpoint rolls around of the
Speaker 2: movie where he proposes, and in his proposal he's like, wow,
Speaker 2: everything's telling me that I shouldn't be in love with you.
Speaker 2: Because I am so proud and prejudiced, but I love
Speaker 2: you anyway. And she's like, Okay, well that was the
Speaker 2: worst proposal I've ever heard. You were so mean to
Speaker 2: me and my family just then, and you also ruined
Speaker 2: my sister's life and you're mean. And he's like, well,
Speaker 2: I guess I have more growing to do. So then
Speaker 2: he goes and grows some more.
Speaker 3: I just I really like, I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3: Elizabeth is amazing.
Speaker 2: Yes, what I admire about this is her behavior. I'm
Speaker 2: still not very sold on, like and I don't think
Speaker 2: you are either, but like Darcy being completely deserving of
Speaker 2: kind of the redemption that he gets in Elizabeth's eyes, No,
Speaker 2: I agree, but also like a redemption by like whatever,
Speaker 2: like eighteen hundreds or late seventeen hundred's standards probably didn't
Speaker 2: have to be that significant because the bar for men's
Speaker 2: behavior was low.
Speaker 3: And I also think it's like a lesson in I
Speaker 3: don't know, I mean, I felt like, let me know
Speaker 3: how you feel about this. I felt like, I don't
Speaker 3: even think Elizabeth was saying at the end of the story, like,
Speaker 3: I think Darcy is exactly where he needs to be.
Speaker 3: He's a fully formed person. I think that her conditions
Speaker 3: for being to marry him was like that she believed
Speaker 3: that he could get there and was like, like he
Speaker 3: had displayed that, like I am willing to do the
Speaker 3: work and the self introspection and the like questioning my
Speaker 3: prides and prejudices to be a better person, which I
Speaker 3: think is like, you know, and obviously this isn't like
Speaker 3: a blanket statement, but in a serious relationship, I think
Speaker 3: that that's the thing is like, very often it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, if you're waiting for someone to arrive at
Speaker 3: you fully formed, you could be waiting for a very
Speaker 3: long time, and that's fine. But I think for a
Speaker 3: lot of people it is often enough for it to
Speaker 3: be like, Okay, no, you're not fully formed, but you
Speaker 3: know that, and you're willing to continue working, and it's
Speaker 3: not like my burden to get you to where you
Speaker 3: need to be. You're a work in progress and you're
Speaker 3: getting to where you need to. And it seems like
Speaker 3: that's sort of where they both are, and like part
Speaker 3: of the reason why they connect is because like, and
Speaker 3: I feel like it's made more explicit in the in
Speaker 3: the movie, in that scene that makes me cry, even
Speaker 3: though I have issues with mister Bennett. But the way
Speaker 3: that Lizzie talks in that scene where she's just like,
Speaker 3: we're so similar, like we which I feel like is
Speaker 3: her way of acknowledging like we're both works in progress.
Speaker 3: I do think that the way that they're they are similar.
Speaker 3: The context is different because like Darcy's prides and prejudices
Speaker 3: are more impactful because of the time they're living in
Speaker 3: and less sympathetic than Lizzie's because Lizzie's prides and prejudices
Speaker 3: are against the rich, so it's kind of easier to
Speaker 3: get on her side totally. Darcy's prides and prejudices are
Speaker 3: against the poorest. So they're similar impulses, but they're you know,
Speaker 3: weaponized very differently with very different results. So yeah, I
Speaker 3: feel like, maybe, you know, that's not fully examined, But
Speaker 3: I do believe that Lizzie thinks, and I want to
Speaker 3: believe it based on his behavior that it's like he's
Speaker 3: not perfect, but he's demonstrated a lot of growth, and
Speaker 3: I think that he's willing to continue working to deserve
Speaker 3: being with me, and I think that that is like
Speaker 3: a very beautiful, empathetic thing. I don't know, I agree,
Speaker 3: that's just how I feel today.
Speaker 2: Sure right, ask me again tomorrow. Elizabeth being prejudice in
Speaker 2: a cool way where she's like, fuck the rich, eat
Speaker 2: the rich, right, I do find and again this might
Speaker 2: just be demonstrative of my lack of understanding of culture
Speaker 2: at the time. I'm not a history scholar, believe it
Speaker 2: or not. Listener of the Bechdel cast.
Speaker 3: Brave of you to admit, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: So they're always talking about how poor they are, the
Speaker 2: Bennett family, but then they live in a huge mansion
Speaker 2: and have a bunch of servants.
Speaker 3: So that was a So that's something that comes up
Speaker 3: a lot because I was also like, explain this to me,
Speaker 3: uh yeah, like I don't fully have an understanding of that.
Speaker 3: I do know that, it's like that also seemed to
Speaker 3: be based on my slight research because I didn't I mean,
Speaker 3: and we're I fully intend to do more Jane Austen
Speaker 3: research before I am a episode, but I just did
Speaker 3: not have time before this episode.
Speaker 2: That's okay.
Speaker 3: But my understanding, just have a brief Jane Austen overview,
Speaker 3: is that Jane Austen very much presented herself as like
Speaker 3: an underdog, like I'm poor, but like, and I feel
Speaker 3: like people people still do this all the time today.
Speaker 3: They're like, I'm poor, and then you're like, you're like
Speaker 3: a really famous person's daughter, Like what are you talking about?
Speaker 3: You know, like they're like, I'm so relatable, like and
Speaker 3: I'm thinking of five people. But I you know, I
Speaker 3: respect women, so I'm not gonna say that. But like,
Speaker 3: you know, my understanding is that the class difference that's
Speaker 3: being examined here that isn't like fully made clear in
Speaker 3: either the book or the movie, partially because of where
Speaker 3: Jane Austen was coming from, being like I'm poor, which
Speaker 3: was her way of saying I'm upper middle class and
Speaker 3: everyone else around me is fabulously wealthy.
Speaker 2: That is what.
Speaker 3: There's a class difference, but it's like not because it's
Speaker 3: like in the whole book, you meet one working class
Speaker 3: character and it's Darcy's head servant, and she all she
Speaker 3: can talk about is how much she loves Darcy. Like
Speaker 3: this is not a working class story at all. And
Speaker 3: I feel like the Bennetts, You're totally like, I agree,
Speaker 3: Like the Bennetts are presented as like we're so poor,
Speaker 3: but this is a story between like the middle to
Speaker 3: upper middle class versus fucking.
Speaker 2: Elon the welse, you know, right, yeah, yeah, So the
Speaker 2: information I've gathered is that Darcy earns ten thousand dollars
Speaker 2: a year or ten thousand pounds, sorry, ten thousand pounds
Speaker 2: a year, which is the equivalent of somewhere million between. Well,
Speaker 2: it's between. It's between six hundred and seven hundred thousand
Speaker 2: pounds per year, which is a significant income.
Speaker 3: That's a lot of money, for.
Speaker 2: Sure, But I don't think they're like billionaire status, or
Speaker 2: if anyone even was back then.
Speaker 3: Yeah, actually fuck him.
Speaker 2: The Bennett family according to my research, and maybe this
Speaker 2: was mentioned in the book, but I think they bring
Speaker 2: in an income of two thousand pounds a year, which
Speaker 2: is slightly less than half of what Bingley brings in,
Speaker 2: which is five thousand pounds a year. So yeah, based
Speaker 2: on that, they seem middle class, I would say the Bennetts.
Speaker 3: Which like fine, I yeah, I feel like that's almost
Speaker 3: like a Jane Austin an issue too, because like.
Speaker 2: But then, but again, according to my research, Jane Austen
Speaker 2: was fairly poor her entire life and didn't become famous
Speaker 2: until after her death, which was at like age forty
Speaker 2: one or something like that. She died quite young and
Speaker 2: wasn't famous or wealthy, and I think was like I
Speaker 2: think again, according to some some of the resources I consulted,
Speaker 2: was living below the poverty line her entire life.
Speaker 3: I totally, I mean I didn't do the Jane Austen
Speaker 3: life prep, so I totally, yeah, you're right, thank.
Speaker 2: You so much. That's so I am a scholar after all.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's so interesting because it's like most of her
Speaker 3: stories are so of the upper class, and it's like
Speaker 3: not even really a criticism of her, because it's also like,
Speaker 3: I mean, it's funny, like we were talking about Succession
Speaker 3: at the beginning of this episode, where like forever and
Speaker 3: there's a lot of criticism on it, and like there
Speaker 3: are I still believe there's not enough like stories about
Speaker 3: the working class, and particularly like fun and engaging stories
Speaker 3: about the working class, where it's so often you get
Speaker 3: working class stories that are just trauma porn and everyone's like, well,
Speaker 3: we're bummed out, and it's like, well, yeah, no shit,
Speaker 3: Like rich people are having all the fun in movies too,
Speaker 3: like fuck you.
Speaker 2: You know, but except for that scene in Titanic when
Speaker 2: they're the poor people are having fun dancing below deck
Speaker 2: and the rich people are hopping.
Speaker 3: They all died two days later. They're all like we
Speaker 3: all we like, you can't have that scene without having
Speaker 3: to watch all of those characters individually drowned. So like
Speaker 3: it's it, it cancels out.
Speaker 2: Fair point.
Speaker 8: Yeah, But but but I'll have to say, like Succession,
Speaker 8: that's the current show about like rich people fucking around
Speaker 8: and having complicated interpersonal relationships that.
Speaker 3: Matthew mcfatdy and is also in that, like people across
Speaker 3: class lines really enjoy because that has been so much
Speaker 3: of how the history of storytelling has been. It's like,
Speaker 3: you know, kings and queens and rich people like that's
Speaker 3: been so many of the famous story and that's like
Speaker 3: something that I think is like up for examination of,
Speaker 3: like why can't we have more working class heroes without
Speaker 3: it being tragedy poor? And I think that's like something
Speaker 3: that I hope is you know, there there are stories
Speaker 3: where that's the case, but it's still a lot of
Speaker 3: rich people, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I just wish it was like maybe made a little
Speaker 3: clearer in the book as well, because they they're always
Speaker 3: because I do like get how upper middle class people
Speaker 3: are often saying I'm poor when they're around rich people
Speaker 3: all the time. But it's also like you're an author
Speaker 3: or you're a filmmaker, you can contextualize that and not
Speaker 3: just have the only working class person in the entire
Speaker 3: movie talk about how much you love rich people. And
Speaker 3: I've never I've never.
Speaker 2: Seen oh Downton Abby.
Speaker 3: Yes, but that that's something that does that well, right,
Speaker 3: like that that is.
Speaker 2: Really well, it's been a few years since I've seen it,
Speaker 2: but yeah, it basically pays equal attention and equal screen
Speaker 2: time and characterization and all of that stuff to the
Speaker 2: upper class you know, aristocracy people and the working class
Speaker 2: servants who work for the rich people.
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, so okay.
Speaker 2: Whereas in this movie and like you know, this this story,
Speaker 2: it is really only concerned about the lives and affairs
Speaker 2: of people of like, you know, these higher economic classes
Speaker 2: and anyone of significantly lower class, like the servants who
Speaker 2: we see like working in the Bennett house. Uh, they're
Speaker 2: given no characterization.
Speaker 3: Like who are they? Yeah, yeah, they're I mean, they're
Speaker 3: basically viewed as like status and property, which is like
Speaker 3: again complicated when you consider the fact that like a
Speaker 3: lot of what the Bennetts are the Bennett's sisters in particular,
Speaker 3: are pushing up against is like I don't want to
Speaker 3: be viewed as property. But then there's also you're in
Speaker 3: the middle class, so you do view other people as property,
Speaker 3: but you resent being considered as property by people above you,
Speaker 3: Like where's your empathy for the people below you? And
Speaker 3: I don't have have like read I think like how
Speaker 3: many Jane Okay, wait, let me pull up Okay, I've
Speaker 3: read one, two, three, four out of like seven Jane
Speaker 3: Austen novels, I don't really remember, Like if there is
Speaker 3: one particular Jane Austen book that tackles this particularly, that's
Speaker 3: really interesting that she she would have had an intimate
Speaker 3: understanding of the poorer classes. But I also think that
Speaker 3: there's something to be said for like in this time,
Speaker 3: especially because she had to write under pseudonyms. Right, did
Speaker 3: stories about poor people sell in the eighteen hundreds?
Speaker 7: Maybe not Oliver Twist Oliver Twist Poor, but that was
Speaker 7: written by a man, So you know, it's like it's
Speaker 7: we clearly don't have enough knowledge to make any definiteness statement.
Speaker 2: I guess where the more effective class discussion comes in
Speaker 2: for this story is the recognition on Jane Austen's part
Speaker 2: that in this society, women had so few options and
Speaker 2: so few rights and opportunities that one of the only
Speaker 2: ways that they could secure any hope for survival was
Speaker 2: to marry a man, and therefore the goal for many
Speaker 2: women becomes find the man with the highest income. Because
Speaker 2: part of me is like, wow, this is a movie
Speaker 2: almost entirely about women talking about who should I marry,
Speaker 2: who can I marry? Who was the richest guy? Did?
Speaker 2: Like so much of that where like just coming at
Speaker 2: it from like a very surface level, like Bechdel test
Speaker 2: point of view, is like, oh, that doesn't feel great,
Speaker 2: but considering the historical context and you know, just the
Speaker 2: nuances of well, yeah, but women were considered lesser than
Speaker 2: men and living in this very oppressive structure and had
Speaker 2: very few options, and the most realistic one and the
Speaker 2: most feasible one for most women was to try to marry. Well,
Speaker 2: so you can't fault them for that because that's literally
Speaker 2: just survival.
Speaker 3: And yeah, that's that's sort of like that's something that
Speaker 3: I feel like is growth moment in terms of how
Speaker 3: we have taken the approach to this show over the years,
Speaker 3: Like I feel like there was a time in the
Speaker 3: show where we'd be like, they're talking about marriage the
Speaker 3: whole time, but it's like in this time and in
Speaker 3: this story, when they're talking about marriage, the subtext is
Speaker 3: they're talking about survival, right, and they're talking about like
Speaker 3: there are no you know, Like it's very I don't know,
Speaker 3: I don't know why. I'm just like twenty seventeen, Like
Speaker 3: it's very twenty seventeen to be like, well, why didn't
Speaker 3: they start a small business?
Speaker 9: It's like, yeah, they should have become girl bosses, right, right,
Speaker 9: like in extraordinary circumstances, like obviously, like there there are
Speaker 9: always women in every time Jane Austen.
Speaker 3: Included, who were able to have careers independently, but that
Speaker 3: came at such significant cost. It was not the norm.
Speaker 3: It's an unreasonable expectation for women of this time to
Speaker 3: not be thinking of marriage as inherently connected to survival,
Speaker 3: especially if your family is all women and the one
Speaker 3: man in the family they've a shit, massive and shitty,
Speaker 3: like I get it.
Speaker 2: So that comes through in like, yeah, a lot of
Speaker 2: missus Bennett's behavior, right, And there's a there's a scene
Speaker 2: with Lizzie's friend Charlotte where she comes to tell Lizzie
Speaker 2: that she's married mister Collins because it offered her a
Speaker 2: secure future and like Lizzie's like, but he's ridiculou and
Speaker 2: she's like, look, I'm twenty seven years old, which like,
Speaker 2: for the time was sixteen years old. I was considered
Speaker 2: like an old maid. Basically, she's like, I have no
Speaker 2: money and no prospects. I'm a burden to my parents.
Speaker 2: I'm frightened, So don't you dare judge me? And it's like,
Speaker 2: oh shit, like I see where you're coming from.
Speaker 3: Charlotte such an effectively written scene that was like condensed
Speaker 3: for the movie, but I just thought it was so
Speaker 3: well done. Yeah, yeah, that whole I mean that whole friendship,
Speaker 3: and I really I think that's like a cool and
Speaker 3: it does come through clearly in the book as well,
Speaker 3: where that's like I think that her storyline was Charlotte
Speaker 3: might be like one of the first prides and prejudices
Speaker 3: that Lizzie works through in the story where obviously everyone
Speaker 3: knows that mister Collins is not great and Lizzie rejects
Speaker 3: him and it's amazing and it's very exciting. And then
Speaker 3: when Charlotte contextualizes her situation where she's like, Okay, you're
Speaker 3: twenty and you're from a your family than I am.
Speaker 3: And and because women were so this is something we
Speaker 3: haven't really talked about yet, like women were so aggressively
Speaker 3: judged for how they looked and beauty standards. I feel
Speaker 3: like it's kind of interesting because two thousand and five
Speaker 3: beauty standards are being pumped in, whereas like the beauty
Speaker 3: standards of the eighteen hundreds would have been different. I
Speaker 3: think that if this was a true period piece, the
Speaker 3: women in the story would look different. But all that
Speaker 3: to say, like even with the two thousand and five
Speaker 3: beauty standards put in to this story, it's like, you
Speaker 3: are the beauty, so you are our ticket into financial security.
Speaker 3: You are not quote unquote the beauty in the traditional
Speaker 3: Western beauty standards sense, and therefore you will be neglected.
Speaker 3: And like it's mentioned, I mean it's said, and this
Speaker 3: is like one of the places where you're like, fuck
Speaker 3: Missus Bennett, where Missus Bennett just like mascot, Like I
Speaker 3: don't think she's hot, and so I'm not interested in
Speaker 3: talking about her. And Lizzie like never does that, never
Speaker 3: judges anyone based on how they look because she like
Speaker 3: knows it's bullshit because she's Lizzie Bennett. And yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean there's that scene at the beginning where like missus
Speaker 3: Bennett is criticizing how Charlotte looks, and like, this is
Speaker 3: clearly feedback that Charlotte has been getting for a long time.
Speaker 3: It's clearly feedback that Mary has been getting. It's clearly
Speaker 3: feedback that Lady Catherine's daughter whose name escapes me at
Speaker 3: this moment, has been getting. And it's like there are
Speaker 3: multiple and I think that's like really strong writing on
Speaker 3: Jane Austen's part and ooh, screenwriter Deborah Mogoq's part. Mogok
Speaker 3: don't know, sorry, mogotch could be anything, but I think
Speaker 3: that's really strong on their part, that it's like this
Speaker 3: is this is something that has been thrown in their
Speaker 3: face their entire lives, and they've been made to feel
Speaker 3: small by it, and it's clearly affected them and that's
Speaker 3: to be expected. And it's like, I think given the
Speaker 3: circumstance that Charlotte has been in where she's been called
Speaker 3: unattractive her whole life, which is not even true, and
Speaker 3: the fact that she's twenty seven years old. Oh no,
Speaker 3: we're both literally dead in this situation. But like, you know,
Speaker 3: the time whatever, right, And I still think that, Like
Speaker 3: she ends up, she stands up to Lizzie and is like, look,
Speaker 3: what would you fucking do in my situation? And then
Speaker 3: on top of that is like, I'm not sentimental like you.
Speaker 3: I want to survive, right, So like what do you
Speaker 3: want from me? And Lucy has to like it's still
Speaker 3: not how she's going to live her life. And part
Speaker 3: of that is because of her own privilege, both physically
Speaker 3: and financially, right, And so she is privileged to be
Speaker 3: able to take the stands that she does and not
Speaker 3: have her whole life fall apart as a result, even
Speaker 3: though it still could, but like less likely, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's got you know, like youth privilege, youth privilege,
Speaker 2: cure Knightley hot privilege where she can down mister Collins,
Speaker 2: she can turn down mister Darcy has for his first proposal. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she she's turning down people, even though mister Collins is like, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's no guarantee that you'll ever get another marriage proposal,
Speaker 2: and it's like sir, Okay, do you know who you're
Speaker 2: talking to you're talking to Kiera Knightly like, which also
Speaker 2: makes the scene at the beginning when mister Darcy's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: she's tolerable but not handsome enough to tempt me, and
Speaker 2: it's like, you're talking about Kia Nightly.
Speaker 3: Well great, we're all fun because you just called Kiara
Speaker 3: Knightly ugly, Like what are you talking about? Anyways? I agree,
Speaker 3: but I think that, like in the text, Lizzy is
Speaker 3: forced to examine that and like is able to get
Speaker 3: past it and continues, like because it's said in the book.
Speaker 3: I think at the like Lizzy's like, oh, now we're
Speaker 3: never gonna see each other again, We're not gonna be friends.
Speaker 3: This so blah blah blah. But then they do remain friends,
Speaker 3: and Lizzie gets past her prides and prejudices Charlotte I still,
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like I want better for Charlotte, I
Speaker 3: want better for Mary. I want them to, you know,
Speaker 3: live in a society that doesn't make them feel like
Speaker 3: shit against stuff that isn't even true. But then it's
Speaker 3: also like I just really thought that it was a
Speaker 3: nice thing in this story and in this time that
Speaker 3: like these two women prioritize their friendship and their love
Speaker 3: for each other, and because this is how things had
Speaker 3: to play out for Charlotte to survive in a way
Speaker 3: that she was comfortable with that Lizzie's like, Okay, I
Speaker 3: hear you, and we can still be friends. I just
Speaker 3: think it's really it's not. Nothing is ideal in the
Speaker 3: way that stories work out between women and the story
Speaker 3: for the most part. But I do think that it's
Speaker 3: nice that they like Lizzie prioritizes how Charlotte's feeling, and
Speaker 3: that's why she's able to remain friends. And Charlotte is
Speaker 3: also very sensitive to like whatever. Charlotte's like empathetic to like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I get why you didn't want to marry mister Collins,
Speaker 3: but I'm doing it so to like be friends.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've got this room that I can escape
Speaker 2: to where he won't bother me.
Speaker 3: And isn't that she has her She has her like
Speaker 3: woman cave where she's like no Collins is allowed.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think one of the big strengths of this adaptation
Speaker 2: is that even though many many characters were eliminated or
Speaker 2: scaled back in the movie, but the movie chooses to
Speaker 2: keep a lot of the relationships between women, notably Elizabeth
Speaker 2: and her sisters and mother, and Elizabeth and her friend Charlotte.
Speaker 2: Those are still present in the movie, and they're given
Speaker 2: I thought, a good amount of focus because even though
Speaker 2: the driving vehicle for this story is the romance between
Speaker 2: Elizabeth and Darcy, screen time dedicated to her relationships with women,
Speaker 2: they don't like dwindle those down at the expense of
Speaker 2: this relationship, this romantic relationship.
Speaker 3: I agree, I agree, Yeah, and I like that you
Speaker 3: still get the relationship between Lizzie and Jane. I would
Speaker 3: have liked. And again, this is and we have to
Speaker 3: I mean, we've been recording for.
Speaker 2: A while, so hours, it's.
Speaker 3: Almost been two hours, so we do need to wrap up.
Speaker 3: But like I do like that Lizzie and Jane like
Speaker 3: they're again. It was like giving like a little bit
Speaker 3: of little women of like the eldest has is a
Speaker 3: little more shy, a little more reserved. It was giving
Speaker 3: me some meg March energy of like, sure, I want
Speaker 3: a more traditional life and Lizzie is that's not who
Speaker 3: she is at all. But they have such a strong
Speaker 3: love for each other. They would do anything for each other,
Speaker 3: and they are able to like navigate each other's personalities
Speaker 3: and the way that like true friendships and love does
Speaker 3: I love their relationship same? I love and I have
Speaker 3: like such a soft spot for Jane, even though sometimes
Speaker 3: I'm like, Jane, speak up for yourself. But like I
Speaker 3: like Jane is like more of.
Speaker 2: She's shy and modice shine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like she's a sweetie. And Lydia, I mean I
Speaker 3: also think that like with with Lydia and and Kid Kiddy,
Speaker 3: it's they're so young that it's like you can't really
Speaker 3: justdge Like I understand that sixteen is thirty in this world,
Speaker 3: but like they're so young and that like you can't
Speaker 3: really judge them on anything like where I know, like
Speaker 3: and the.
Speaker 2: Story and the story.
Speaker 3: Acknowledges that, like they're very very young, and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: there are two teenage girls that are really excited that
Speaker 3: there's a lot of cute boys around, Like right, they're fifteen,
Speaker 3: like they're seventeen, Like yeah, give them a break. And
Speaker 3: I do feel like maybe that both stories could have
Speaker 3: given them more empathy and reminders that it's like these
Speaker 3: are kids right to like chill out, you know.
Speaker 2: And even though adult men married fifteen year olds during
Speaker 2: this time, yikes.
Speaker 3: They're still kids.
Speaker 2: They're teen girls doing teen girl shit, and everyone's just
Speaker 2: like you were so silly and ridiculous, and it's like, no.
Speaker 3: You're brilliating the family. It's like, oh god, I'm glad
Speaker 3: the steaks weren't like that when I was a teenager,
Speaker 3: because I was, I mean I was. I was like
Speaker 3: every teenage girl is like, if that's the steaks for
Speaker 3: every teenager in general, your family's fucked. Like teenagers are embarrassing,
Speaker 3: Like that's what you're supposed to be embarrassing. It's literally
Speaker 3: your one job is to do the most embarrassing thing
Speaker 3: you can think of.
Speaker 2: Truly. Yeah, okay, So just a couple last till things.
Speaker 2: Fun fact, I learned from our favorite scholarly journal Wikipedia
Speaker 2: that apparently a person from Chili watched this movie two
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy eight times during a single year. So
Speaker 2: oh yeah, an icon. Good for her.
Speaker 3: Oh that's the end of the story.
Speaker 2: What did I learned?
Speaker 3: They're like, nope, I just watched it.
Speaker 2: It was a fifty one year old woman who declared
Speaker 2: herself as obsessed with the film and she saw Elizabeth
Speaker 2: Bennett as a feminist icon.
Speaker 3: Okay, she's right, and that's literally gonna be me somedays,
Speaker 3: so I can't even criticize. I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: do something two hundred and seventy eight times.
Speaker 2: I mean I watched Titanic basically two hundred and seventy
Speaker 2: times a year. So yes, just a couple things I
Speaker 2: really enjoyed about the movie. I loved the scene where
Speaker 2: Elizabeth is dancing at the ball at Bingley's estate and
Speaker 2: she's carrying on several different conversations, one with mister Collins
Speaker 2: and then I think one with Jane. And because of
Speaker 2: like how dancing was back then, you could only talk
Speaker 2: to someone for like three seconds before you then like
Speaker 2: stepped away from them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just like.
Speaker 2: Loved the choreography and like loved the dialogue in that scene.
Speaker 3: The choreography of this movie is amazing, the camera choreography,
Speaker 3: the physical court Like it's also I'm gonna see Sarah
Speaker 3: noh god damn it. I'm excited.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 2: Kiera Knightley is doing really good face acting. Her facial
Speaker 2: expressions are doing so much work in the movie. I
Speaker 2: love it. I love the scene where the women are
Speaker 2: all like lounging around the house very just like leisurely
Speaker 2: kind of sloppy missus Bennett has like a half eaten
Speaker 2: plate of food on her lap, and then they see
Speaker 2: Bingley and Darcy walking up, so they have this like
Speaker 2: mad scramble and then cut to them like very poised
Speaker 2: and proper to receive guests. But I just like love
Speaker 2: that because it's like, wow, women back then were just
Speaker 2: like us.
Speaker 3: And I also love that, like this is a rare
Speaker 3: I mean, this is maybe like a weird thing to
Speaker 3: make notice, But like Kiera Knightley is the age of
Speaker 3: the character in this week, Oh yeah, she like Lizzie.
Speaker 3: I feel like that's a very rare dig good movies.
Speaker 3: And I always use the example of like CW teenagers,
Speaker 3: where like I could play a CW teenager and I
Speaker 3: am almost thirty so and that's been like the case forever.
Speaker 3: But like Kiera Knightley is, like I think most people
Speaker 3: are like cast pretty age appropriate in this uh in
Speaker 3: this movie. And so you do feel like, especially when
Speaker 3: it's like Jenna Alone, you're like, yeah, genial alone. I
Speaker 3: mean actually jenaal Alone is older than Kiera Knightley. Believe
Speaker 3: it or not, what I think, let me double check.
Speaker 3: I think that Kura Nightley may be the youngest and
Speaker 3: the cast question.
Speaker 2: Mark, well even younger than Kerrie Mulligan.
Speaker 3: She and Kerry Mulligan are the exact same age. Whoa
Speaker 3: and then Rasamund Pike. How old is Rasmund Pike? Yeah,
Speaker 3: Rasamund Pike is older than them, it doesn't matter. Sorry,
Speaker 3: continue it, but yeah, like I just thought it was Yeah,
Speaker 3: she married like Kiera Knightley to Lulailey and Harry Mulligan.
Speaker 3: We're all the same age even though they're different ages.
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of Mary and my Justice for Mary Bennett section, again,
Speaker 2: the book mostly ignores her to the point where as
Speaker 2: I was reading it, I was like, who's Mary? And
Speaker 2: then I thought that there were only four Bennett sisters
Speaker 2: for a large chunk of it. But I feel like
Speaker 2: in the movie she's like given a little bit more
Speaker 2: time and attention. I love the scene where she's like,
Speaker 2: bells are silly. If we're gonna get acquainted to each other,
Speaker 2: how would anyone do that by dancing? Shouldn't you talk
Speaker 2: to a person to get to know them? And everyone's
Speaker 2: just like, shut up, Mary, But she's right. I just
Speaker 2: like her a lot, and I wish her all the best.
Speaker 3: I think she's great, and I feel like the movie,
Speaker 3: even more so than the book, knows that she's great
Speaker 3: and her character is like fleshed out a little more.
Speaker 3: I like to think down the line that like Mary
Speaker 3: really found someone, whether it was in marriage or friendship,
Speaker 3: who like got her. Yeah, I hope she did, because
Speaker 3: it seemed like there wasn't anyone in her family who
Speaker 3: like in the way that like Lizzie and Jane really
Speaker 3: got each other, and the way that like Lydia and
Speaker 3: Kitty for a lot of their relationship really got each other.
Speaker 3: I feel like Mary was the album out. I hope
Speaker 3: she found someone that really understood her. She deserved that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but uh yeah, that's really all I had. Did
Speaker 2: you have anything else?
Speaker 3: No, that's basically all I had. I just I truly,
Speaker 3: I mean I without getting personal. I feel like this
Speaker 3: this story. I rediscovered this story at a very nice time,
Speaker 3: and that, like Lizzie, no matter when you're coming back
Speaker 3: to her, there's lessons to be learned from the Gospel
Speaker 3: of Lizzie Bennett. She is incredible and I really like
Speaker 3: that she and Jane and the story very happy like
Speaker 3: and with you know, and it is in the conventional way,
Speaker 3: but I feel like the way that Jane Austen writes,
Speaker 3: in the way that this story in the adaptation plays out,
Speaker 3: it feels earned and you want these characters to find
Speaker 3: their bliss in the way that they could in this time,
Speaker 3: and it seems like they do and that.
Speaker 2: Makes me happy in a way that again that like
Speaker 2: enemies to lovers trope never really works for me. And
Speaker 2: as yeah, you know Nora Efron or no was it
Speaker 2: her sister pointed out, like that never happens in real life,
Speaker 2: where people start out hating each other and then they
Speaker 2: fall in love, but that is a big movie thing.
Speaker 2: I feel like this is maybe the one narrative where
Speaker 2: I can get behind that because it certainly didn't work
Speaker 2: for me. And You've Got Mail or I mean a similar.
Speaker 3: Thing for most of the time, right because yeah, like
Speaker 3: we were saying, it's unrealistic, but like in this one,
Speaker 3: it's so it starts with the broad trope, but it
Speaker 3: attacks the broad trope with such subtlety. And also just
Speaker 3: like time, like, I feel like a part of the
Speaker 3: reason that You've Got Male doesn't work. There's a lot
Speaker 3: of reasons, but like one of the reasons it doesn't
Speaker 3: work is because it all happened so quickly, and like
Speaker 3: pride and prejudice, It's like Darcy and Elizabeth don't talk
Speaker 3: for months at a time as they continue to work
Speaker 3: on themselves, which I feel like is honestly like kind
Speaker 3: of harder for modern stories where it's so easy to
Speaker 3: keep tabs on each other, and like the idea of
Speaker 3: like truly not knowing what someone else is up to
Speaker 3: for months is kind of inconceivable if you're remotely interested
Speaker 3: in who they are or what they do. But like
Speaker 3: this was a time where it's like, yeah, Lizzie didn't
Speaker 3: know what Darcy was up to while she continued to
Speaker 3: experience life and like overcome her pride, prides and prejudices
Speaker 3: independent of him, and vice versa. And then it would
Speaker 3: be like they would reconnect every several months and be like, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm growing, but it's still not time. And then they
Speaker 3: would reconnect. I'd be like, oh, you've improved, I've improved. Interesting,
Speaker 3: and like, I don't know, I feel like that's for me.
Speaker 3: That's why it works. It's because it is like gradual,
Speaker 3: and the issues that they have outside of their lives
Speaker 3: is interconnected because of the circles they run in but
Speaker 3: it's like they're both on their own sort of stories.
Speaker 3: They're both dealing with their own shit, and it's when
Speaker 3: they reconnect and kind of regroup and they're like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I've improved in this way, but I still suck in
Speaker 3: this way. And then the other person's like, okay, well
Speaker 3: I still have this pride in this prejudice, but I
Speaker 3: got rid of this pride and this prejudice. And they're like, okay,
Speaker 3: let's regroup in September or like whatever, you know. I
Speaker 3: just it feels very true to like, I just okay.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: Does this pass the Bectel test? Yes?
Speaker 2: Yes. Although so much of the movie is women, Actually,
Speaker 2: when are there conversations that past? Because so many of
Speaker 2: the conversations between women where women do interact a lot
Speaker 2: in the movie, but it seems like they're always talking
Speaker 2: about men, if not directly, like that's the subtext of
Speaker 2: the conversation.
Speaker 3: I was getting exchanges, not full conversations, but exchanges do pass.
Speaker 2: Okay, As far as our nipple scales, your to five nipples.
Speaker 2: Based on how the movie affairs from an intersectional feminist lens,
Speaker 2: I'll give this four nipples. It's a nice story. I
Speaker 2: really liked this movie. I was not expecting to like
Speaker 2: this movie as much as I did, especially because.
Speaker 3: Like so happy when I found out you liked it,
Speaker 3: because I was like, there's hope. If Caitlin likes it,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna love rewatching it.
Speaker 2: I think it's a really well made movie. I get
Speaker 2: why people love it so much. It does make me
Speaker 2: want to see Sarah No. Yeah, Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 3: Let's see Sarah No together. Oh. I would be so
Speaker 3: excited to see Sarah No with you. Let's do it,
Speaker 3: Dane Glitch dang.
Speaker 2: And it makes me want to watch the BBC mini
Speaker 2: series anyway for Nipples, because even though I think mister
Speaker 2: Darcy still has a lot of work to do on
Speaker 2: himself with all of his prides and prejudices. I love
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Bennett as a character. I do think she's a
Speaker 2: feminist icon. I think it's cool that you can call
Speaker 2: a character from a book that's over two hundred years
Speaker 2: old a feminist icon. And I think this adaptation leans
Speaker 2: into that aspect of her character in really satisfying ways.
Speaker 2: And yes, it is a very nineteenth century version of
Speaker 2: feminism that's very white and very hetero and very middle
Speaker 2: class and maybe four nipples is too high, but damn it,
Speaker 2: it's just a really good movie, so it gets some
Speaker 2: extra love.
Speaker 3: Who are you giving your nipples too?
Speaker 2: Oh? One nipple to Lizzie Bennett. I'm gonna give one
Speaker 2: to Mary Bennett. One to the servant woman who I
Speaker 2: think is given a name, but I for I to
Speaker 2: write it down, and she does have a name, Betsy
Speaker 2: or something like that, And I'm going to give my
Speaker 2: final nipple to Around the nineteen minute mark, there is
Speaker 2: a very weird shot of a pig's testicles.
Speaker 3: Yes, I was wondering if that was going to come back,
Speaker 3: but it's just missus Bennett looking at the pigs testicle
Speaker 3: and then she kind of smiles, and they were like, what.
Speaker 2: Why is this in the movie?
Speaker 3: Is that symbolism? And like, is my brain not making
Speaker 3: the connection that I'm like, fertility. I'm like, what is it?
Speaker 3: What are you trying to tell me? I don't know.
Speaker 2: Anyway, So I love the very gratuitous random shot of
Speaker 2: a pig's giant ballsack.
Speaker 3: Femina's icon pigs ballsack, got it.
Speaker 2: And that's what gets my fourth and final nipple. Jamie's
Speaker 2: how about.
Speaker 3: You, I'll meet you at four For many of the
Speaker 3: same reasons. I think that this movie is so well done.
Speaker 3: I love like I feel like it's so rare that
Speaker 3: you're like, this adaptation makes the story both faithful to
Speaker 3: the source material and more accessible in a way that
Speaker 3: certainly hit for me when I was twelve, where I
Speaker 3: had tried to read the book and I was like,
Speaker 3: I totally get it. And then I remember going to
Speaker 3: see the movie and being like, oh, now I actually
Speaker 3: get it because it's laid out so clearly and it
Speaker 3: but also in a way that doesn't sacrifice the themes
Speaker 3: or the characters. It just like pulls it into focus.
Speaker 3: It makes it more streamlined and beautiful, Like Joe wright
Speaker 3: movies are so beautiful. And I also just want to
Speaker 3: acknowledge the behind the scenes stuff here, you know, huge
Speaker 3: ups to screenwriter Deborah Mogok who started as a novelist.
Speaker 3: This was her first screenplay. It was nominated for a
Speaker 3: bath to huge stuff. I mean, there's still it is
Speaker 3: still mostly white guys behind the scenes. We've got Joe
Speaker 3: Wright directing, all male producers, male cinematographer. So I do
Speaker 3: want to like specifically focus on the screenwriter who was
Speaker 3: a first time Green writer.
Speaker 2: Also, Emma Thompson helped with some of the story development
Speaker 2: and dialogue, but is uncredited.
Speaker 3: Emma Thompson is not given enough credit for the fact
Speaker 3: that she's also a very accomplished writer. I know enough
Speaker 3: she is. And also in terms of the writer Deborah Mogux,
Speaker 3: she's also I mean, she just like has a cool
Speaker 3: life in general. She's been a huge advocate for changing
Speaker 3: the law in dignity and death and assisted suicide and
Speaker 3: just like all of this really complicated, like cool advocacy work.
Speaker 3: Like she's just a really cool person. So I wanted
Speaker 3: to shout her out. And Lizzie Bennett, I mean, I
Speaker 3: truly like, there are few there's so I mean, thankfully,
Speaker 3: in the interceding two hundred years, there's been a lot
Speaker 3: of great feminist characters who's been writing, but like Lizzie
Speaker 3: Bennett endures for a reason. She's fucking awesome. There's, like
Speaker 3: we were talking about, there's still things that Lizzie Bennett's
Speaker 3: able to do and advocating for herself and her family
Speaker 3: and her loved ones that like it's hard for me
Speaker 3: to do in the day to day and it's a
Speaker 3: struggle out there. It's really like life affirming to be like,
Speaker 3: well it worked off for a Lizzie right like. Anyways,
Speaker 3: I love this story, I love this movie. I was
Speaker 3: so refreshed and relieved to revisit it and find it
Speaker 3: to have just as many moments that really stuck with
Speaker 3: me as it did when I saw it when I
Speaker 3: was twelve. So I'll give it four nipples. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: give one to Lizzie. I'll give one to Deborah Mogok,
Speaker 3: i will give one two Charlotte. I love Charlotte, and
Speaker 3: I'll give one to Mary and those will be my
Speaker 3: four nipples. Ooo.
Speaker 2: There you have it, folks. That was our unlocked Matreon
Speaker 2: episode on Pride and Prejudice. Hope you enjoyed it. If
Speaker 2: you haven't heard it before because you're not already on
Speaker 2: the Matreon, well now is the damn time.
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, As you heard in the episode, it's a
Speaker 3: little bit of loser discussion. It's usually just me and Caitlin,
Speaker 3: and we very often cover movies that are our listeners' choices,
Speaker 3: so a lot of weird stuff on there and a
Speaker 3: lot of fan favorites so and it's also just like
Speaker 3: a really nice community if you join the Matreon. You
Speaker 3: often get discounts on merch at our shows, you get
Speaker 3: advanced tickets to our shows. There's just plenty of perks
Speaker 3: to being a part of the community. It's five bucks
Speaker 3: a month and you also get access to upwards of
Speaker 3: two hundred episodes of backlog. We've had it since twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3: So however, many times that equals we get asked a
Speaker 3: lot like what is the best way to directly support
Speaker 3: the show? That is the best way to directly support
Speaker 3: the show, and so we hope to see you over there.
Speaker 2: Also, don't forget you can grab tickets to my stand
Speaker 2: up show in State College, Pennsylvania in mid April at
Speaker 2: the Blue Brick Theater. We'll put the tickets to that
Speaker 2: on our link tree. Also that same weekend, I'm teaching
Speaker 2: a stand up workshop, So if you can't get enough
Speaker 2: of me and comedy, please come learn about stand up
Speaker 2: from me at this workshop. The registration link for that
Speaker 2: will also be on our link tree. So hope to
Speaker 2: see you there. If you're in the area, you can
Speaker 2: access the Bechdel Cast's link tree at link tree slash
Speaker 2: Bechdel Cast. Imagine that and we'll put it in the
Speaker 2: description as well. Certainly and with that, you know, I hope.
Speaker 3: You enjoyed the episode. We love you so much and uh,
Speaker 3: you know, go make out with the love of your life.
Speaker 3: See if we care?
Speaker 2: Yeah dare Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production
Speaker 2: of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus, produced
Speaker 2: by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board. Our theme song
Speaker 2: was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski.
Speaker 2: Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and
Speaker 2: a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about
Speaker 2: the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechdelcast