WEBVTT - Empty Box [1] 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:03.720 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:07.640 those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.720 and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, or 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:16.000 their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter which may 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.840 not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:28.840 It was a beautiful day in June nineteen ninety five 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:33.640 in the East of Belgium. Eight year old Julie Lejeane 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.040 arrived at her classmate Melissa's house at around three pm 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:41.400 to practice their end of school year dance routine. The 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.320 girls were best of friends and excited about the upcoming 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:49.160 summer break and beautiful weather. After practice, they convinced Melissa's 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:51.520 mom to let them walk to the overpass just down 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:57.360 the street to wave at the cars below. It sounds 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.560 like a strange activity for eight year olds, but Melissa 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:05.600 was used to doing this with her brother. She must 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:08.039 have been excited to show her best friend Julie how 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:10.080 fun it was to get honks and waved from the 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:19.080 cars racing by below. But something evil was lurking near 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:27.640 the bridge that day. Julie and Melissa crossed its path 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:32.240 and then disappeared. It was as if they simply vanished 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:36.280 in broad daylight from one minute to the next, from 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:38.480 the time they were last seen by witnesses near the 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:42.119 bridge to the moment Melissa's mother started looking for them, 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:48.000 they were only unaccounted for for about fifteen minutes. Unfortunately, 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:51.160 in that small window of time, they were taken from 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:54.200 that beautiful day into a very dark place. 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:11.960 A psychopath is somebody who understands emotions. 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.640 And I told them it is a very exceptional that 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.680 somebody abducts two children at the same time. 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:19.240 Should have been the. 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.560 Yell of it in nineteen eighty six, but my god, 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:24.200 it was just a beginning. 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:29.600 I think Belgium was a paralyzed for perverts in those days. 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:42.560 Welcome to La monstre. I'm your host, Matt Graves. In 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.200 the summer of nineteen ninety five, I moved to Belgium 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.280 and I've lived here ever since. I'll never forget the 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:52.760 fear and chaos unleashed that summer, and repercussions and questions 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:59.320 that still reverberate to this day. It all started right 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:03.160 here on this bridge. On June twenty fourth, nineteen ninety five, 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.680 a local man explains that eight year olds Julie Lejehn 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:14.359 and Melissa Russo lived less than five hundred meters away. 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.000 This bridge is ground zero for one of the darkest 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:23.079 chapters in the history of this country. Over twenty five 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:28.560 years ago, our story began. A story of abomination, incompetence, 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.919 and conspiracy that led to the demise of the entire 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:35.920 institution of Belgian Federal Police and rattled the foundations of 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:40.360 its government. A story about a man whose accomplices, both 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.600 known and unknown, are walking freely in the world today, 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.480 a man so wicked that he simply become known as 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:55.080 La Monstre. Shortly after Julie Lejehn and Melissa Rousseau went missing, 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.360 Melissa's mother, Karine Russeau, explained the disappearance in an interview. 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:02.560 It's in French, so these are her words, read in 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:03.800 English by an interpreter. 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.640 I got on my bike and decided to go meet 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:12.200 them so we could finish the walk altogether. And I 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.560 rode down to the bridge and back and didn't see them, 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.760 And then took the same route back and forth three times, 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:21.040 and I still didn't see them. 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.279 Around this time, Julie's mother arrived to pick up her daughter. 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.839 I arrived around six o'clock by car with my son. 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:32.040 When I got there, missus Strussel was on the lawn 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:33.040 getting over her bike. 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:35.960 She came straight over and explained she. 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:38.320 Had let the girls take us twelve for thirty minutes, 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:42.800 but she couldn't find them. She had already made their 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.920 wrong trip to the bridge three times looking for Julian Melissa, 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:52.920 and she was worried because she couldn't find them, So 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.279 we decided to go looking for them by car. We 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:58.799 searched the route they were supposed to take, as well 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:02.400 as other three. It's near where other friends lived, just 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.080 in case the last track of time. 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.400 At this point, both mothers were getting worried, so they 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.680 decided to call the police and ask for help. Melissa's 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:13.120 mother explained. 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.480 It was about six forty five and the girls were 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:24.560 only forty five minutes late, but we were already very worried, 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:32.839 worried enough to call the police. I'd say the police 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:39.960 arrived within about fifteen minutes. They asked us some basic questions. 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:42.600 I'm not sure how long that lasted. 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:45.039 Julie's mother chimed. 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:49.800 In fifteen or twenty minutes. I think they asked us 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.200 for pictures of the girls and we gave them the 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:56.520 ones we had at the time. I admit that at 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.320 one point at night I had some very bad thoughts 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.120 that maybe they'd been picked up by a bad person 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.400 would kill them, and that would find them somewhere nearby. 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:12.720 Everyone in the neighborhood was shocked about the disappearance. A 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:17.600 neighbor saw them that day from her window. She explained 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:19.880 that she saw them walking in the direction of the bridge, 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:23.479 and that they seemed calm and normal. A young couple 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:25.919 walking back from that bridge were the last people to 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:27.480 see them prior to their abduction. 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:28.960 Was it. 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:33.760 They explained that they had passed by two girls who 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:37.240 were walking in the direction of the bridge. The girl 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.600 said hello and were smiling. The couple said hello back 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:46.520 and kept walking. Julie and Melissa's parents did everything right 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:50.800 when their girls disappeared, just like every kidnapping story you've 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:54.520 ever heard. The police didn't immediately file a missing person's report, 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:58.320 but the parents knew that time was of the essence, 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:03.159 and they immediately contacted an association that helps locate missing children. 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:08.320 Things moved quickly, and a massive missing person's poster campaign 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:13.520 got underway. I distinctly remember these posters on the left 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:17.120 was a smiling Melissa in a red jumper, her soft 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:21.840 features and big brown eyes, smiling and acute grin. Julie's 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.880 also smiling, with her hair pulled back by a headband, 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:29.080 surely to show off her new little stud earrings. These 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.040 pictures are burned into the brains of almost anyone who 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:35.800 lived through these times in Belgium. When I first saw them, 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.000 I was in my mid twenties, far removed from the 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.480 worries of parenthood. When I look at them now, as 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:44.600 a middle aged man with two girls of my own, 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:48.400 it's heartbreaking. If I try to put myself in the 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:52.120 parent's shoes, the feeling is unbearable. The rush of anxiety 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:54.400 is so dark and deep that I can't stand to 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.880 hold the thought more than a few seconds. I can't 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.840 imagine living with that feeling day after day without being 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:05.000 able to escape it. I think it's something that only 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:12.440 the parents of a missing child can really understand. Shortly 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.560 after the abduction, Melissa's mother appeared on the news with 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:16.480 a message for her. 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.800 Daughter, Melissa. 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.880 I'm here for you. Everyone's here for you at home. 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:25.960 I don't know if there's something you can do to 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.040 come home, whether you can do something or not. I 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.920 don't know, but we're here, my love, waiting for you. 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.000 We're doing everything everything we can do to find you. 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.959 The tireless work of Julian Melissa's family started to generate publicity, 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:58.680 and national news channels cover the disappearance. Several volunteers helped 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.800 them search all of the field nearby and anywhere else 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.320 the girls could have possibly gone. When no trace was found, 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.800 the parents became convinced they'd been kidnapped. On one hand, 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.880 they were happy not to have found their bodies, but 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:16.400 a sinking sense of dread began to set in. They 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:20.000 were absolutely convinced that Julie and Melissa were alive, and 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:21.480 they refused to give up searching. 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.240 This is a message to the kidnappers. We are still 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:35.280 without any news of our girls, Julie and Melissa, for 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:38.880 two weeks now. We've been waiting in anxiety. We can 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:43.440 no longer take this situation. Whoever you are and wherever 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.920 you are, we beg you for the return of our children. 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:50.400 Please send us proof that they are alive and okay. 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:55.280 Telephone lea. 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:06.959 Investigators in Liege received their first interesting tip. Seventy one 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.560 year old Mary Louise Henrote lived close to the bridge 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:16.400 where Julian Melissa disappeared. Marie Louise lived a quiet, elderly 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:22.280 existence and didn't read newspapers or watch TV. She was 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:31.280 a creature of habit who followed the same routine every day. 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:38.160 June twenty fourth was a beautiful day for her usual routine. 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:40.520 She climbed the stairs to her room at around four 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:49.480 pm before going to bed. At around six pm. She 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:51.640 liked to sit by the window for an hour or so, 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:58.920 taking in the end of her day. From the window, 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:01.680 Marie Louise can see the highway as well as the 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.960 side roads in an open field. At around five pm, 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:08.680 she said she saw two girls walking along a small 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:13.280 access road leading to the bridge. Apart from the cars 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.439 racing down the highway, there's not much to see, so 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.080 she watched the girls as they walked by, going towards 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:23.439 the bridge. As she sat up to close the curtains, 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.400 she noticed a dark colored car pulled over on the 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:28.520 right hand side of the road next to the girls. 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:34.679 A man got out of the car and opened one 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:38.520 of the back doors. The girls got into the car. 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:42.520 There didn't appear to be a struggle, and she assumed 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:46.400 the girls knew the driver. He was a normal looking 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:51.360 man with thick dark hair wearing black pants. She wasn't 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.319 a car buff but settled on it possibly being at 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.439 push O two to five when inspectors helped her narrow 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:03.640 down the possibilities. Other leads trickled in about different sightings. 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.520 A man reported seeing two girls on the bridge as 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.360 he drove under them on his motorcycle on June twenty fourth, 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:15.040 after five pm. He also recalled seeing a red car 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:19.440 stopped in the emergency lane near the bridge. He remembered 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:21.800 it because he was in the right lane and had 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:28.360 swerved leftward to keep a safe distance. Four other separate 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.800 witnesses reported seeing a red car stopped on the side 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.160 of the highway near the bridge on June twenty fourth. 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:40.000 Some of them thought it was a Ford Fiesta. Two 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:43.280 of these witnesses also reported seeing a van further along 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:47.160 in the emergency lane. One of them was a doctor 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.480 from Liege who sent a letter to police saying he'd 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:52.960 seen a red car and a van stopped in the 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:58.160 emergency lane near the bridge. He had slowed down for 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.960 safety and noticed the van had French license plates and 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:05.640 the red car had Belgian plates. And even remembered the 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.880 first three letters of the Belgian license plate as n 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:14.760 k V or envy K. Finally, a woman in Liege 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.400 who lived roughly six miles from where Julian Melissa disappeared, 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.880 reported an attempted kidnapping of her daughter and friend, ages 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.439 seven and eight earlier. On the same day that Julian 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:31.880 Melissa disappeared. She contacted police and reported that at approximately 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:35.679 twelve fifteen p m. On June twenty fourth, nineteen ninety five, 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.120 a man dressed in a blue and green striped shirt 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.640 and dark trousers tried to tempt the girls into his 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.960 car with candy. One of the girls testified that he 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.480 had one hand on the steering wheel and in the 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.960 other hand he held a handkerchief that seemed to be 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:56.760 moist and gave off a weird smell. Luckily, the mother 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.960 spotted what was going on and ran over to intervene. 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.080 When the man saw her, he hit the gas and 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:07.760 his tires screeched as he accelerated away. She formally identified 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:17.680 the vehicle as a red Ford Fiesta. She reported this 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:21.160 to police two days later on the following Monday. Here's 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:23.840 what she said in an affidavit these are her words, 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:25.800 not her voice. 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.480 Earlier in the year, in both March and May, a 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.480 man driving a red car offered to take the girls 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.160 for a ride. On June twenty fourth, nineteen ninety five, 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.920 at noon, the girls were playing outside. I saw my 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.720 daughter moving away from the car. It was a red 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:46.200 Ford fiesta. I saw that my daughter was afraid. I 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.240 got closer and saw that my daughter's friend, Diana, was 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.960 sitting in the passenger seat of the car. I literally 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:55.800 ripped her out of the car. The driver tried to 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:59.320 keep her from getting out, and then took off. I 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.640 got a good look at he looked to be around 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.240 one meter seventy tall, five foot eight, thin, with short, 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.880 dark hair parted on the right, brown eyes, wearing a 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:12.960 blue and green striped shirt with dark trousers. 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.600 I tried to reach the woman who made this statement, 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:20.440 but couldn't find her. I did, however, track down one 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.640 of the girls, Diana. She didn't want to speak with 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.280 me directly, but we had a series of texts and 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:32.720 she confirmed that this actually did happen. Overall, six separate 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.720 leads came in about the day that Julian Melissa disappeared. 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.360 There was an elderly woman who claimed that she saw 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.640 the girls get into what looked like a dark colored 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:46.240 Pugeau on the access road next to the highway. Four 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.400 different witnesses reported seeing a red car parked in the 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:52.120 emergency lane on the side of the highway around the 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:56.440 time of the disappearance, and another woman claimed that a 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.480 man in a red car on two occasions tried to 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.160 abduct her, her daughter, and her daughter's friend just six 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:04.600 miles away from the bridge where the girls went missing. 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:13.320 Shortly after the disappearance, a criminologist named Karine houts About 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.920 created a description of the profile of the suspect she 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:21.360 believed Plice should be looking for. Karine studied victimology and 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:24.840 psychopathology in Paris and at the Washington College of Law 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:29.280 in DC, and she participated in the profiling program at 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:34.480 FBI headquarters in Quantico. She's a criminal profiling expert who 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:38.640 works directly with victims, judicial authorities, and perpetrators all over 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.920 the world. My co producer Thomas and I drove to 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.360 her house on the outskirts of Ghent to meet her. 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:50.040 So we're walking to Korene's house and this is a 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:56.200 really cute little place. It's kind of a medieval cobblestone village, 0:16:56.960 --> 0:17:00.560 barely even fit a car in this road. The roughly 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.800 one hour drive from Brussels, we arrive at a charming 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:08.119 little village where Karine works. She's got a moat. Wow, 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:12.840 so we're crossing a little moat bridge. It's a peaceful 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:17.520 little haven nestled into the Flemish countryside. It looks like 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.680 something you'd see in a Brugal or Rembrandt painting. This 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:26.680 is beautiful. Hello, Hello, KARMI. 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:29.760 Nice to meet you. Meet. 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:35.760 Karine is warm and welcoming, but underneath that warmth you 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.159 can sense a warrior. She spent her life fighting for 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.640 the rights of abused and confronting dangerous predators head on. 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.480 After some pleasant small talk, we settled into a quaint 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.600 room with a wood burning furnace and I asked her 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.680 some questions about the disappearances of Julie and Melissa. 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:57.880 It was June nineteen ninety five. 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.960 I was in the United States at that moment in Washington, 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:08.200 DC because I had practice placement at the FBI National 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.920 Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Now, while I was there, 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.240 I started having faxes. 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:15.600 At the time, it wear faxes. 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.920 We're talking about twenty five years ago asking my help 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:23.440 because two little girls disappeared in Grassolonna in Belgium. 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.560 You'll hear the name Grassolonia quite a bit in the story. 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.760 It's the name of the municipality in Liege where the 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:31.679 girls disappeared. 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.520 It were Julie and Melissa. There was the twenty fourth 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:38.200 of June. Then I think it was somewhere in July. 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.800 I was back in Belgium and I was approached by 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:46.240 a detective, which in the United States is quite normal 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.760 to have a private detective, which in Europe is really 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:52.480 They find this ridiculous. 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:56.520 He said, well, listen, you have to help these parents. 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:00.040 It is two weeks now, the children are missing and 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:01.240 nothing is happening. 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:06.840 Private detectives are rarely a welcome site for police investigators. 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.120 In the nineties in Europe, they were nowhere near as 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:12.760 common as they are today. So when Karin and a 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.400 detective showed up in Barcelonia to investigate the crime scene, 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:20.199 police were less than thrilled to see them. They started 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:22.840 by going to the bridge and then Karen asked the 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.200 detective to bring her to the closest exit. 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:29.879 I then asked him, okay, if he comes from there 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.639 he saw the children. Where can he get off the highway? 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:38.640 So we searched for that first, and it was very nearby. 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:42.040 And then he could come back, pick up the children 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:46.200 and drive again, you know, by the bridge going over 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:50.440 the highway. He could just take them away. It could 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:57.040 go easily. Then I saw that the weeds were cut, which. 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:57.720 Was not the case. 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:01.280 She's talking about wheat fields around the area. By the 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:04.280 time she visited the scene in mid July, the wheat 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:07.160 was cut, but she surmised that it wouldn't have yet 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:09.840 been cut on the twenty fourth of June, making it 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.399 hard to see two small girls from one of the 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:13.200 side roads. 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.160 But from there you could not see these children because 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.720 the wheats were too high. So I said, okay, he 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.000 saund them from the highway. And on a highway you're 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:24.359 not on foot or. 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.760 With your bicycle. So he has a car. 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.919 If he has a car, he has more tendency to 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:32.320 a methodical type. 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:37.119 Karine explained that there are two types of kidnapper profiles, 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:42.040 the methodical type, someone who premeditates his crimes, versus the 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:45.000 impulsive type, who acts on the spur of the moment. 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:48.480 In this case, she was convinced they were dealing with 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:49.920 a methodical profile. 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.320 And then we went to the parents and there Geen 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:57.879 Darmerie was already waiting for me inside, very very hostile. 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:00.960 You know, I can't believe the I mean, so when 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:01.600 you showed up. 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.360 You showed up at Julian Melissa's yes of Melissa. 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:08.119 Melissa and the mother of Julie was there, and Gino 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:09.480 Rissau was there too. 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:11.840 He was very very nervous. 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:14.640 Gino Rousseau is Melissa's father. 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:17.000 He was really upset. 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.760 And I said to these two policemen, I said, I 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:24.840 saw people going in and out the room of Melissa, 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:29.440 and I said, did you preserve DNA from Melissa? 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.560 They hadn't preserved the DNA. It had been more than 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.879 two weeks since the disappearance, and parents were getting frustrated 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:39.280 by the lack of urgency from the Jean Dear Marie, 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.800 which is the name of the Belgian Federal police. Karin 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:44.560 tried to offer the police some advice. 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:47.720 I said, you need to take some hair from a 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:51.680 hair brush, or you know, a swimming suit or something. 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:55.119 And then I said you have to look for somebody 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:57.160 who has been in prison for abduction. 0:21:57.560 --> 0:21:59.240 Torture and sequestration. 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:04.399 And this policeman told me listen to missus Hutzbel. We 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:07.120 are not in the United States here, you know. Then 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:09.760 I said, okay, I'm going. So I wanted to leave. 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:11.639 I've had it with these people. 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:17.359 The situation was getting tense at the Rousseau house. Melissa's father, Gino, 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:20.080 was becoming increasingly angry with police. 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:24.280 And then Gino he threw his car piece on the 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:29.240 table and he said get out, get out, and he 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:30.720 throwed the two policemen out. 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:35.879 Gino Rousseau later testified that police had warned him that 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:39.119 Karen Whot's about was some sort of quote witch in 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:41.600 training and that he shouldn't listen to her. 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:45.000 And I could understand this disarrayed these people, two little 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:47.320 girls of eight years of age, and they were doing 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:52.040 nothing at all, So I understand them. I calmed them 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:55.440 down and I told them it is very exceptional that 0:22:55.640 --> 0:23:00.000 somebody abducts two children at the same time. Eighty seven 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:04.440 percent of this kind of crimes are pre planned because 0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:09.480 this is a methodical type, and methodical types organized on beforehand. 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:11.880 Where are they going to get rid of the children? 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:16.359 They're victims? And if you don't find the killer, you 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:17.800 won't find the victims. 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:30.040 After the police left, Karen stayed with the parents. She 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:33.359 had some advice. She said that they should appeal to 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:37.080 the Ministry of Justice and ask that a multidisciplinary team 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:40.560 of crime experts be put on the case. The parents 0:23:40.600 --> 0:23:44.199 followed up and the ministry agreed. At the time, the 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:47.720 Minister of Justice was Stefan de Clerk. He agreed to 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:51.479 assign an investigation unit to the case, what Karen refers 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:53.080 to in this interview as a cell. 0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:58.159 The cleric sent me two officers of the Gendarmerie Major 0:23:58.240 --> 0:24:02.600 de Krana, and I helped them for two days to 0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:08.760 put together a cell to help these investigations. Now he's 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:13.800 afraid of me because he knows what I'm saying is right. 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:16.919 He was the most stupid man I've ever seen in 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:20.879 my life, and he's the head of the cell. Right 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:24.639 And later on when the case explode that I heard 0:24:24.680 --> 0:24:29.960 that there were five people in this cell structure, from 0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:31.040 whom three were. 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:32.360 Not even aware they were in it. 0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:35.639 Okay, so they made they made they made a missing 0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:41.520 child unit to help find the disappeared girls and other cases. 0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:43.840 But they didn't really know what they were doing. It 0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:45.840 sounds like and the guy who was heading it up 0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:47.840 wasn't You didn't think it was very. 0:24:48.080 --> 0:24:51.320 No, and it was not it that is desert thing. 0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:54.640 After years you realize that they didn't have the intention 0:24:54.920 --> 0:24:58.800 to look for children. It just took peace the population. 0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:02.240 But we have all That was the argument I had 0:25:02.280 --> 0:25:04.960 with my husband all the time. We paid the police 0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:07.880 to do that, okay, but they don't do it. 0:25:08.920 --> 0:25:13.080 I already had the child uh Gevre Kavas in eighty six. 0:25:14.600 --> 0:25:17.280 She's referring to a case in the mid eighties where 0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:20.080 a young boy disappeared in broad daylight on his way 0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:23.720 to play soccer with his brother. The boys family and victims' 0:25:23.720 --> 0:25:26.439 advocates were highly critical of the lack of follow up 0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:27.040 from police. 0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:31.600 Six years old disappears in the middle of Brussels, is 0:25:31.640 --> 0:25:35.280 still missing. And I had a friend who was at 0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:37.800 the jam DARMERI and I asked him, what are you 0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:39.920 doing to find this child back? 0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:42.040 And he said, we are waiting. 0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:46.480 I said, waiting for what stop the world from turning? 0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:48.840 You have to find a job where we're waiting for 0:25:50.160 --> 0:25:55.000