WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: How Carbon Fiber Works

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 1>Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio

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<v Speaker 1>and I love all things tech and it is time

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<v Speaker 1>for a classic episode of tech Stuff. This one published

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<v Speaker 1>way back on June eleven, two thousand four. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>follow up to our last classic episode. This one is

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<v Speaker 1>how carbon fiber works. If you listen to the previous one,

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<v Speaker 1>it was the history of carbon fiber. Now we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to get into more about what makes carbon fiber special.

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<v Speaker 1>Hope you enjoy. Let's start really quick with a with

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<v Speaker 1>a brief overview of what carbon fiber is um. It's

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<v Speaker 1>it's made up of thin strands of crystalline carbon um,

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<v Speaker 1>like like a really thin like human hair or thinner,

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<v Speaker 1>that have been twisted into yarn type stuff and then

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<v Speaker 1>woven into cloth type stuff and then usually treated with

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<v Speaker 1>some kind of resin and molded into a final shape,

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<v Speaker 1>right which it will then hold. So it's not you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not like you put it in a shape and

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<v Speaker 1>then like regular cloth that then loses that shape. You

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<v Speaker 1>Actually that resin helps it hold that that particular shape.

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<v Speaker 1>So that you end up with a really strong, really

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<v Speaker 1>light material, right, And I forgot one step at the

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<v Speaker 1>beginning there, which is you have to create a this.

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<v Speaker 1>You have to create this carbonized material, right, This crystalline

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<v Speaker 1>carbon strand um, which you do with stuff called a precursor,

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<v Speaker 1>which can be made with it is most commonly made

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<v Speaker 1>with ryan polyocryllum nitrial a K A PAN, which we're

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<v Speaker 1>probably going to use more often than polyocrylla nitrial certainly

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<v Speaker 1>I will um or petroleum pitch yep. So these precursor fibers,

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<v Speaker 1>with the exception of petroleum pitch, this is all stuff

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<v Speaker 1>that we are making synthetically. Uh, you know, we're creating polymers.

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<v Speaker 1>Polymers are our long chain molecules. They're made up of monomers.

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<v Speaker 1>A monomer think of that as like a basic unit

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<v Speaker 1>of a polymer. So you get these really long chains

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<v Speaker 1>and then we carbonize them. So how do we carbonize Well,

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<v Speaker 1>for one thing, we use chemicals to alter the molecules

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<v Speaker 1>in the fiber to create a perfect chain of carbon atoms.

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<v Speaker 1>And these precursor fibers are pulled through an oxidation oven

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<v Speaker 1>for a couple of minutes, and that oven's temperature is

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<v Speaker 1>about two hundred fifty degrees celsius. So the fibers then

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<v Speaker 1>take on oxygen atoms from the air while in the

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<v Speaker 1>this oven. Now this is not the actual carbonization process here.

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<v Speaker 1>This is just pre treatment, kind of like when you

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<v Speaker 1>take your car in to get car washed, and this

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<v Speaker 1>is the pre wash part of the wash. We should

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<v Speaker 1>probably do an episode about car washes at some point

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<v Speaker 1>and find out which one which of those stages are

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<v Speaker 1>actually necessary. But getting back to the carbon fiber, the

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<v Speaker 1>incorporation of oxygen atoms into the molecular structure of the

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<v Speaker 1>fibers make the fibers actually resistant to high heat. It's

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<v Speaker 1>very import because of an upcoming step. Now. At that time,

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<v Speaker 1>the color of these precursor fibers changes as it oxidizes

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<v Speaker 1>and eventually turns black. So whenever you hear something like

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<v Speaker 1>carbon black, and yeah, it's that particular color. Like I

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<v Speaker 1>remember this all the time in video games where you're

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<v Speaker 1>choosing your like halo, particularly where you're choosing your armor colors,

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<v Speaker 1>it's because it's taking it from the carbon fiber color

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<v Speaker 1>and the color tends to be black because that's what

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<v Speaker 1>happens through the oxidation phase. So next you put these

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<v Speaker 1>oxidized fibers, the ones that have been tempered for high

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<v Speaker 1>heat to go into another furnace, and this one has

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<v Speaker 1>controlled amounts of other gases, but not oxygen, because you

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<v Speaker 1>don't want the fibers to burn, right, because in the

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<v Speaker 1>presence of oxygen, those fibers become fuel and then you

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<v Speaker 1>just get fire, right, and then an ash is less strong. Yeah. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>if you just burn up your material, you are not

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<v Speaker 1>doing it right. So what you have to do is

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<v Speaker 1>you have to have these other gases that can enter

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<v Speaker 1>deuce other types of atoms into the molecular structure, for

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<v Speaker 1>instance hydrogen perhaps, but non oxygen, so that way you

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<v Speaker 1>don't actually have a fire, you don't end up burning

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<v Speaker 1>the stuff, right. So, so with this tremendous heat, the

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<v Speaker 1>the fibers vibrate and the atoms that are not carbon

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<v Speaker 1>vibrate right out of this stuff, resulting in this carbonized

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<v Speaker 1>material exactly. So we get these carbon atoms and they

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<v Speaker 1>are becoming these tightly packed crystals that run parallel to

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<v Speaker 1>the length of the fiber. The fibers then go through

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<v Speaker 1>a bath of electrically charged water which etches the surface

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<v Speaker 1>of the fibers. It actually carves into the surface of

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<v Speaker 1>the fiber a little bit, and those etched surfaces create

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<v Speaker 1>anchor points for resin. Yeah, because otherwise, you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>resin wouldn't necessarily adhere evenly to the carbon fiber, making

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<v Speaker 1>it less useful. This is a way of sort of

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<v Speaker 1>giving those little hand holds. I think of it like

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<v Speaker 1>a rock wall with the little handholds in them, similar

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<v Speaker 1>to that. So net you have to spray the fibers

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<v Speaker 1>with a light resin. Now that that is important for

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<v Speaker 1>two reasons. It helps improve the fiber's material strength, and

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<v Speaker 1>it creates a bonding agent for any future resin that

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<v Speaker 1>would be applied to that carbon fiber. So this is

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<v Speaker 1>not the stuff that makes carbon fiber uh adhere to

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<v Speaker 1>a specific shape. It's not multiple right. This is just

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<v Speaker 1>so that if you exactly if you want to apply

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<v Speaker 1>multiple resin to it, that resin will adhere better. So

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<v Speaker 1>everything here is all about pre treating this stuff so

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<v Speaker 1>that it can eventually be put through whatever manufacturing process

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<v Speaker 1>you want to continue down the road in order to

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<v Speaker 1>get at whatever you're making, for example, a golf club,

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<v Speaker 1>um or an airplane. Who knows you could do either

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<v Speaker 1>with these sort of stuff. So then you have the

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<v Speaker 1>finished carbon fiber, which is called a carbon fiber toe,

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<v Speaker 1>and you wind that on a spool. So this is

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<v Speaker 1>the stuff that other companies buy as raw material, which

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<v Speaker 1>then they can braid, eve mold, or otherwise altered to

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<v Speaker 1>make into their final product. Now, carbon fiber toes can

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<v Speaker 1>also be grouped together in larger amounts called a web. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>these webs can be put through a process that ends

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<v Speaker 1>with a sheet of carbon fiber material. It's kind of cool.

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<v Speaker 1>It looks like just an enormous black sheet of fabric,

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<v Speaker 1>but that fabric is actually carbon fiber. So that fabric

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<v Speaker 1>is five times stronger than steel and lighter than steel,

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<v Speaker 1>and more more, it can be stiffer than steel if

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<v Speaker 1>you apply the resin to it. I mean, it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>interesting to think that something that looks like cloth could

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<v Speaker 1>have these properties. Now, see the web is sandwich between

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<v Speaker 1>sheets of paper to have a resin coating on them.

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<v Speaker 1>Sounds familiar, right, got a lot of resin in this process.

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<v Speaker 1>But these sheets are pulled through a high temperature pair

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<v Speaker 1>of rollers. So think of the ringers we talked about

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<v Speaker 1>with the washing machines, same sort of thing. You're putting

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<v Speaker 1>this whole thing. Those those rollers are are at a

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<v Speaker 1>high temperature. They're pressed together really tightly. And what this

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<v Speaker 1>does is you get this protective layer over that that

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<v Speaker 1>carbon fiber sheet, and then you remove the two pieces

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<v Speaker 1>of paper. They just peel away because part of the

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<v Speaker 1>material in there is kind of like a nose stick coating,

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<v Speaker 1>sort of like teflon. And so you pull the paper

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<v Speaker 1>away and you roll the the carbon fiber material, like

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<v Speaker 1>the big sheet of material onto giant, giant spools. You

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<v Speaker 1>do have to put a little polyvinyl coating on them

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<v Speaker 1>so that way it's actually like to itself exactly. But

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<v Speaker 1>they look like, and I am not the only one

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<v Speaker 1>to have used this comparison enormous fruit roll ups, and

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<v Speaker 1>like enormous fruit roll ups, they have that little plastic

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<v Speaker 1>coating to keep it from sticking to it or fruit

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<v Speaker 1>leather if you prefer, let's proprietarily yeah, um, but but yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that that that resin job there reminds me a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of if you, as a child ever made ever preserved

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<v Speaker 1>leaves or flowers and wax paper by by ironing it

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<v Speaker 1>down so that so that you've got that thin layer

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<v Speaker 1>of wax similar to similar, very similar. So now this

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<v Speaker 1>entire process, Uh, does have some downsides to it. Not

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<v Speaker 1>the flower pressing thing. No, no, no, no, carbon fiber

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<v Speaker 1>if you're not careful, the flower pressing thing too. But no,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm specifically talking about creating carbon fiber and not just

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<v Speaker 1>the carbon fiber sheets. I'm just talking about the whole

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<v Speaker 1>process of carbon fiber in general. One of those is

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<v Speaker 1>that it tends to give off a lot of dangerous gases,

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<v Speaker 1>including carbon monoxide. So the smokes and tars that are

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<v Speaker 1>given off in this process are not necessarily poisonous, but

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<v Speaker 1>can contribute to serious health issues with prolonged exposure. So

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<v Speaker 1>one of the things that's really important in the facilities

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<v Speaker 1>that make carbon fibers is that they have really good

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<v Speaker 1>ventilation so that the people who work inside them don't

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<v Speaker 1>get sick over time, sure, and really good collections so

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<v Speaker 1>that you're not polluting the environment. Yeah, So this is

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<v Speaker 1>a process that could potentially be harmful to the environment

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<v Speaker 1>just through the production process. Now, we talked in the

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<v Speaker 1>last podcast about how the fact that it's lighter and

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<v Speaker 1>stronger than steel means that using it for vehicles means

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<v Speaker 1>you use less fuel for that vehicle, which efficient. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and it makes it environmentally friendly from a fuel consumption process.

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<v Speaker 1>But like all things, you have to look at the

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<v Speaker 1>enormous picture, which you know. It's one of those things

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<v Speaker 1>where every time I start getting really excited about technology,

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<v Speaker 1>thinking oh, clean energy, and then I start looking beyond

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<v Speaker 1>about how do you make the clean energy? And then

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<v Speaker 1>I think, yeah, there needs to be a magic button.

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<v Speaker 1>That's all I'm saying. But anyway, you you classify this

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<v Speaker 1>stuff according to the tent sile modulus of the fiber

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<v Speaker 1>tent file modulus. It's a measure of how stiff the

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<v Speaker 1>fiber is. Yeah, but that's that's the term within the

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<v Speaker 1>industry is tensile modulus. And I bet because because of

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<v Speaker 1>the way the world works, there is both an English

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<v Speaker 1>system and an international system for dealing with this. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you are absolutely correct. So the English them would be

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<v Speaker 1>pounds of force per square inch of cross sectional area

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<v Speaker 1>also known as p S I PI, and then the

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<v Speaker 1>international system of units would be the PASCAL, which is

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<v Speaker 1>also known as force per unit area. So one pascal

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<v Speaker 1>is one newton of force per square meter, meaning that

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<v Speaker 1>it is interesting to try and convert between the two. Fortunately,

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<v Speaker 1>the the various sources we looked at spelled it all

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<v Speaker 1>out for us, so we didn't have to see, we

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have to do Yeah, we didn't have to worry

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<v Speaker 1>about being the ones who messed up a conversion. So

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<v Speaker 1>if these conversions are just let Google do that for me.

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<v Speaker 1>Not the Google usually messes up conversion. If I mess

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<v Speaker 1>up a conversion, it's because I accidentally didn't realize I

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<v Speaker 1>put the wrong unit in on one side of the conversion.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh So fortunately this case, we didn't have to worry

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<v Speaker 1>about that. So low modulus carbon fiber have a tensile

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<v Speaker 1>modulus below thirty four point eight million p s i

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<v Speaker 1>or two hundred forty million k p a that's kilo pascals.

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<v Speaker 1>And on the other end of the spectrum is the

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<v Speaker 1>ultra high modulus. There's a tensile modulus of seventy two

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<v Speaker 1>point five to one forty five million p s i

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<v Speaker 1>or five hundred million to one billion kilo pascals. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>in between those two extremes are levels like standard modulus,

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<v Speaker 1>intermediate modulus, and high modulus. And if you wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>compare it to steel, yeah, yeah, so for you know,

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<v Speaker 1>for baseline comparison, right, because often that's what we like

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<v Speaker 1>to look at right, carbon fiber versus steel. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>otherwise why use carbon fiber at all if steel were better.

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<v Speaker 1>So steel has a tensile modulus of around twenty nine

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<v Speaker 1>million p s i or two hundred million kilo pascals,

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<v Speaker 1>so close, but but not even reaching the low modulus. Yeah. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the low modulus was thirty four point eight million p

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<v Speaker 1>s i or two d forty million kilo pascals. So

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<v Speaker 1>that means that if you go with the strongest carbon fibers,

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<v Speaker 1>you get ten times the strength of steel, right, the

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<v Speaker 1>tin style modulus if you want to be really picky,

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<v Speaker 1>but yes, strength is how we usually call it. So

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<v Speaker 1>steel is five times heavier than carbon fiber, and carbon

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<v Speaker 1>fibers ten times stronger than steel. Yeah, if you're using

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<v Speaker 1>the ultra high version. So that's pretty cool, and that

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<v Speaker 1>is I mean again one of the big reasons why

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<v Speaker 1>everyone is is really excited by this this particular type

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<v Speaker 1>of material. Oh absolutely, but but okay, So aside from

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<v Speaker 1>those pollution related drawbacks that we mentioned earlier, there are

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<v Speaker 1>unfortunately some others with this material. We touched on them

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<v Speaker 1>briefly in the previous episode, but let's go a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit further into them. However, before we do so, let

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<v Speaker 1>us take a quick break to thank our sponsor. I

0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.160
<v Speaker 1>like saving the negative stuff for after the sponsor break.

0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:56.080
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about some drawbacks. All right. So we mentioned

0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:58.679
<v Speaker 1>earlier in our first episode in fact, that carbon fiber

0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.920
<v Speaker 1>is expensive, and we mean really expensive. It's like ten

0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.640
<v Speaker 1>dollars a pound on the low end, whereas steel is

0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.480
<v Speaker 1>something like a dollar per pound. Now we should say

0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:11.839
<v Speaker 1>this is an improvement from twenty years ago. In right,

0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:15.040
<v Speaker 1>carbon fiber back then cost a hundred and fifty bucks

0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:19.360
<v Speaker 1>a pound, So the prices dropped precipitously, one might say,

0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.440
<v Speaker 1>since the nineties, still more expensive than steel. Yeah, and

0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.760
<v Speaker 1>and the price is because of that really intricate manufacturing

0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.200
<v Speaker 1>process that we've just talked through. Um, the raw materials

0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.240
<v Speaker 1>are more like four dollars per pound, which, to be fair,

0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.160
<v Speaker 1>is still four times what steel costs. Yeah, I mean,

0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.439
<v Speaker 1>you're you. And that's just to make those raw materials

0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.439
<v Speaker 1>I mean, or by those raw materials before you put

0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:46.120
<v Speaker 1>them through the carbon fiber process. So what exactly is

0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:51.000
<v Speaker 1>making the process expensive? Okay? First off, those furnaces, uh,

0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:56.040
<v Speaker 1>not the original furnaces, but the carbonization, right, they run

0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.760
<v Speaker 1>around or even an excess of a thousand degrees celsius,

0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:04.520
<v Speaker 1>which is over eighteen hundred degrees fahrenheit, meaning you've got

0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:07.439
<v Speaker 1>a really big power bill. I always worry if I've

0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.640
<v Speaker 1>let the oven on. Yeah, the process uses some five

0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:15.360
<v Speaker 1>times more energy than steel production. Okay. Also, venting the

0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.960
<v Speaker 1>waste materials safely is expensive. We talked about how carbon

0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.240
<v Speaker 1>monoxide is one of the big things that's led out

0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:25.120
<v Speaker 1>in this process, right right, Um, and weaving the stuff

0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.880
<v Speaker 1>for maximum safety is expensive. You have to use a

0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:31.360
<v Speaker 1>lot of fibers to compensate for for potential imperfections in

0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.760
<v Speaker 1>the weave that could cause strain and eventual breakage within

0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:38.280
<v Speaker 1>the fabric. Um. Also, it takes longer to create a

0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.360
<v Speaker 1>piece than it does to just stamp out a piece

0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:45.120
<v Speaker 1>of steel. You know. It's it's this huge three part process. Um.

0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.680
<v Speaker 1>It takes an hour to cure the resin alone. So

0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.240
<v Speaker 1>we're talking we're talking about bunches of time. Okay, But

0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.560
<v Speaker 1>all right, I see here you actually looked more into

0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.680
<v Speaker 1>the reson itself. I'm really interested in this process, right Okay.

0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:01.760
<v Speaker 1>So if you make it with the most common resin,

0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:05.240
<v Speaker 1>which is thermos set resin, it's in that shape forever. UM.

0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.720
<v Speaker 1>It's it's really difficult to reef or melt down or

0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:13.000
<v Speaker 1>recycle thermo set resin carbon fiber. UM. If you do

0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:16.240
<v Speaker 1>try to recycle this stuff, that the resulting carbon fiber

0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:18.880
<v Speaker 1>is weaker, it's too weak to be used, for example,

0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.760
<v Speaker 1>in a car body for for safety standards. So there's

0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.520
<v Speaker 1>greater potential for waste in both manufacturing and the post

0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.160
<v Speaker 1>consumer market. I mean, if if you set this thing wrong,

0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:33.200
<v Speaker 1>it's I mean you've basically just wasted this huge, expensive process.

0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.920
<v Speaker 1>So if your molds are off even by a little bit,

0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.640
<v Speaker 1>then you're you're stuck with the shape that you've got,

0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.080
<v Speaker 1>and you can't easily break it down and just make

0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:43.880
<v Speaker 1>a new one because it's going to be less strong.

0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.400
<v Speaker 1>It'll be too weak to really possibly depending upon what

0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:51.880
<v Speaker 1>the application was. Yeah. Yeah, so that that's a big draw. Yeah. UM.

0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.040
<v Speaker 1>There are some possible solutions to this that the industry

0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:59.280
<v Speaker 1>is looking into other than the manufacturing streamlining that Jonathan

0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:03.280
<v Speaker 1>was talking about earlier. UM, and those are using strong

0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:07.280
<v Speaker 1>acrylics in place of carbon fibers, or perhaps in combination

0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 1>with carbon fibers. UM. They're experimenting with heating the stuff

0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.520
<v Speaker 1>with plasma instead of the thermal furnaces that are currently

0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.600
<v Speaker 1>in use. You know, I love plasma furnaces. They're pretty

0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.920
<v Speaker 1>they're pretty cool. Not literally length about plasma furnaces, so

0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:28.520
<v Speaker 1>um or or possibly using re multiple thermoplastic resins in

0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:32.360
<v Speaker 1>place of the permanent thermoset resins that are currently in use.

0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:35.880
<v Speaker 1>Now that's interesting. Now, obviously with that particular approach, you

0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:39.040
<v Speaker 1>would have to make sure whatever application you are using,

0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.800
<v Speaker 1>uh the carbon fiber for wasn't going to bring it

0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:47.960
<v Speaker 1>into contact with temperatures too high. So obviously, like exactly

0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:49.760
<v Speaker 1>that would be. That would be one where I think

0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.360
<v Speaker 1>the permanent thermo set would definitely be the way to

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:57.640
<v Speaker 1>go because they undergo such extremes and temperature that anything

0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:02.400
<v Speaker 1>that could potentially weaken the the structure would be a

0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:08.080
<v Speaker 1>big negative for that particular application. Sure, one more downside

0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.639
<v Speaker 1>before we get onto happier news though, Um, the a

0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.800
<v Speaker 1>lot of the precursor materials are petroleum based and so

0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:20.320
<v Speaker 1>you know which which obviously, petroleum is an expensive and

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:24.480
<v Speaker 1>non renewable resource unless you've got a few billion years

0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:26.679
<v Speaker 1>to play with. Yeah, if you don't mind you know,

0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:31.400
<v Speaker 1>stretching out your lifespan too. Beyond what is conceivable, then

0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.359
<v Speaker 1>you're fine. But otherwise you could reach a point where

0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.640
<v Speaker 1>in years we're gonna have the singularities. That's true, that's true.

0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.000
<v Speaker 1>So I guess millions of years. I guess it's really millions,

0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.359
<v Speaker 1>not billions of years. I apologize, guys, hundreds of millions

0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:48.280
<v Speaker 1>of years. So it's fine. I was overstating things exaggeration

0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.040
<v Speaker 1>in order to make a point. But but so researchers

0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:55.119
<v Speaker 1>are looking into renewable precursors like lignant, which is a

0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.480
<v Speaker 1>would by product that would be really useful. So it's

0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.920
<v Speaker 1>kind of funny too, because in a way, it's look

0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.600
<v Speaker 1>back to the earliest days of carbon fibers where we

0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:06.280
<v Speaker 1>were using cotton and bamboo to create carbon fiber. Time

0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:17.640
<v Speaker 1>for another quick break, and we'll be right back. Now.

0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about some of the other benefits when when

0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.920
<v Speaker 1>you treat this carbon fiber with the right resin ends

0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:26.080
<v Speaker 1>up being resistant to corrosives, which makes it an ideal

0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.480
<v Speaker 1>material for pipes that tend to carry corrosive liquids, and

0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:33.480
<v Speaker 1>their fatigue properties are better than any metal. So by

0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:35.719
<v Speaker 1>having these pipes, you don't have to worry about them

0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.280
<v Speaker 1>wearing out a quickly. They're not going to corrode based

0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:43.240
<v Speaker 1>upon whatever materials moving through them, and they are themselves

0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:45.040
<v Speaker 1>in nerts, so you don't have to worry about chemical

0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.480
<v Speaker 1>reactions going on in there. So that would be one

0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:50.640
<v Speaker 1>of the big benefits if we were able to make

0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:55.960
<v Speaker 1>enough of it to be used in that kind of infrastructure. Sure. Also,

0:18:56.000 --> 0:19:01.040
<v Speaker 1>that strength really is impressive. Formula one race cars are

0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.720
<v Speaker 1>made all of carbon fiber. Well, I guess not all

0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:06.119
<v Speaker 1>of carbon fiber. I mean, you know they've got pieces, right,

0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.720
<v Speaker 1>but the body is uh, and that's more as a

0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.879
<v Speaker 1>safety regulation than anything else. So so if we could

0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:15.440
<v Speaker 1>bring down the cost of the manufacturer, it could potentially

0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:18.280
<v Speaker 1>save lives. Sure yeah, yeah, you know, you end up

0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:22.080
<v Speaker 1>making even basic car designs much stronger just by switching

0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.160
<v Speaker 1>the materials they're made out of. And then, uh, something

0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:28.520
<v Speaker 1>kind of cool that I read before we started, uh

0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:30.720
<v Speaker 1>really getting into this podcast. It was just a neat

0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.879
<v Speaker 1>little little news item, and uh, I encourage folks are

0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:36.880
<v Speaker 1>interested to go and look up the Mark one three

0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:39.639
<v Speaker 1>D printer. It's built as the world's first three D

0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:43.800
<v Speaker 1>printer designed to print continuous carbon fiber. So it uses

0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:48.680
<v Speaker 1>a process called composite filament fabrication or CFF, which embeds

0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:53.080
<v Speaker 1>continuous strands of fibers in a thermoplastic matrix, So you

0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.960
<v Speaker 1>could actually print carbon fiber pieces like you could print

0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:01.639
<v Speaker 1>various components in carbon fiber, right with that thermoplastic that

0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:04.959
<v Speaker 1>I was talking about being being remultiple and remultiple, And

0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:07.919
<v Speaker 1>so you might be thinking, hey, how much would one

0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.119
<v Speaker 1>of these things run me? So if you want to

0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:12.280
<v Speaker 1>pre order one of these, because they don't they haven't

0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:14.960
<v Speaker 1>been out on the market yet, you can pre order one.

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:19.680
<v Speaker 1>Uh the cost is a lowly four thousand nine dollars,

0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:23.680
<v Speaker 1>which you know, printers really isn't that expensive. I mean,

0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.040
<v Speaker 1>if you're looking at at three D printers that are

0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:29.200
<v Speaker 1>printing in UH an a BS plastic, which is typically

0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:31.560
<v Speaker 1>what other three D printers use, those tend to be

0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:34.760
<v Speaker 1>less expensive, but ABS plastic is not as strong. In fact,

0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:37.199
<v Speaker 1>the print of material materials are supposed to be up

0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.240
<v Speaker 1>to twenty times stiffer and five times stronger than a

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.560
<v Speaker 1>BS plastic parts. So if you are building things that

0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:46.879
<v Speaker 1>have a lot of wear to them over time, this

0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.600
<v Speaker 1>could be a good solution because it means you don't

0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:52.840
<v Speaker 1>have to print replacements as frequently. Sure, although I mean

0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:57.159
<v Speaker 1>I imagine that the cash to purchase the materials to

0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.760
<v Speaker 1>put into your printer. Yeah, it might be more expensive

0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.000
<v Speaker 1>to get the actual like quote unquote the toner than

0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:07.080
<v Speaker 1>a BS, So that is something else to take into consideration.

0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:11.520
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, so this material has has a huge amount

0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.679
<v Speaker 1>of current use and future promise. Yeah. In fact, I

0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:17.880
<v Speaker 1>remember some people even going so far as to look

0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:21.160
<v Speaker 1>into the use of carbon fibers as a potential tether

0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:25.360
<v Speaker 1>material for space elevator. But as it turns out when

0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:29.359
<v Speaker 1>you do the math, it looks like, uh, carbon fibers

0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:31.320
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be strong enough. It wouldn't have the tin stile

0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.680
<v Speaker 1>strength to withstand the forces. Yeah, because it's not quite

0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:36.600
<v Speaker 1>as strong as carbon nanotubes. I mean, the problem with

0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:39.080
<v Speaker 1>carbon nano tubes being there that you know, you can't

0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:41.920
<v Speaker 1>get them as long as you can carbon. Yeah, producing

0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:45.040
<v Speaker 1>carbon nanotubes is a big problem right now. Like, while

0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.359
<v Speaker 1>we're getting closer and closer to to really efficient means

0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:53.119
<v Speaker 1>of making carbon fiber more plentiful due to the manufacturing

0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:57.760
<v Speaker 1>process improvements over time, we're a long way with carbon nanotubes.

0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:00.879
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we've seen some promising develop elements, but you

0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.800
<v Speaker 1>know it's still gonna be a while. I hope you

0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:07.280
<v Speaker 1>enjoyed that classic episode of tech Stuff. We're going to

0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:11.160
<v Speaker 1>uh take another look at carbon fiber soon. I think

0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.160
<v Speaker 1>I was considering it earlier. I think I'm pretty firm

0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:16.720
<v Speaker 1>on that. If you have suggestions for things I should

0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:19.359
<v Speaker 1>tackle in future episodes of tech Stuff, reach out to me.

0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:21.960
<v Speaker 1>The best way to do that is over on Twitter.

0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:24.359
<v Speaker 1>The handle for the show is text Stuff H s

0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:33.080
<v Speaker 1>W and I'll talk to you again really soon. Text

0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:36.560
<v Speaker 1>Stuff is an I Heart Radio production. For more podcasts

0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:39.359
<v Speaker 1>from my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app,

0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:42.639
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows