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Speaker 1: Hey, girlfriend, it's Anna here giving you a quick heads

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Speaker 1: up on what to expect in this episode. We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about the night of the murder a lot

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Speaker 1: and in detail, and I want to warn you that

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Speaker 1: there's going to be some mentions of domestic abuse, sexual assault,

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Speaker 1: and suicide. But we'll also get the chance to dive

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Speaker 1: into the weeds of the police investigation to learn more

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Speaker 1: about the case against Kelly and the holes in it.

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Speaker 1: If you feel impacted by some of the themes in

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Speaker 1: this show, you can reach out to No More. There

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Speaker 1: are domestic violence charity with a lot of great resources

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Speaker 1: to help.

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Speaker 2: You or your loved ones.

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Speaker 1: You can search No More dot org and we've also

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Speaker 1: put a link to their website in the episode description. Plus,

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Speaker 1: as always, there'll be more than a few swear words

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Speaker 1: for Kelly Harnett's brother, Ronnie. July seventh, twenty ten, was

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Speaker 1: a totally normal day.

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Speaker 3: I was on my way back from work and I

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Speaker 3: had are you know how they in a union square

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Speaker 3: and things like that they have the village Voice or whatever,

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Speaker 3: so their newspaper.

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Speaker 1: He picks it up and sits down, leaving through like

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Speaker 1: he would any other time, and there printed in black

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Speaker 1: and white is a headline that reads something like, please

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Speaker 1: arrest two individuals after a murder.

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Speaker 2: In a story of Queens.

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Speaker 3: I was looking at people next to me. I said,

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Speaker 3: you believe this in our neighborhood? And I showed them

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Speaker 3: and they looked at it and they just shook their heads.

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Speaker 3: They were like, what's this world coming to?

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Speaker 1: Ronnie doesn't think any more of it other than what

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Speaker 1: a shame it is that the place he once knew

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Speaker 1: as a safe family neighborhood seems to be going to

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Speaker 1: the dogs.

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Speaker 4: So I go home.

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Speaker 3: My mother's like, yeah, you might want to sit down.

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Speaker 3: I was like, am I just telling me what's going on?

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Speaker 3: And I never a billion years did crossed my mind

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Speaker 3: what I read? You know. So she's like, Kelly, she

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Speaker 3: got arrested, and I said, for what she said, for murder,

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Speaker 3: shocking is an understatement. I started getting dizzy. I started

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Speaker 3: seeing stars and I was like, WHOA. But I knew,

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Speaker 3: I said, I know my sister, she didn't do this.

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Speaker 3: I know she didn't do it.

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Speaker 1: I'm Annisonfield and from the teams at novel and iHeart Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: this is the girlfriend's jailhouse lawyer. Yes, episode three, he

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Speaker 1: said she said. It's around four am on July seventh,

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Speaker 1: twenty ten, when Kelly Hannette first arrives at the one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fourteenth Precinct. She's immediately processed as a suspect

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Speaker 1: in the murder of Reuben Angel Vargas.

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Speaker 5: They took all of my clothes from me, including my

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Speaker 5: bride under her. They put me in a white paper suit.

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Speaker 2: Kelly can't believe what's happening to her.

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Speaker 1: She's just witnessed her boyfriend Tommy Donovan kill a man

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Speaker 1: right in front of her before threatening that she would

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Speaker 1: be next, but no one seems to be treating her

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Speaker 1: like the victim.

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Speaker 5: She is.

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Speaker 2: Sitting in her cell.

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Speaker 1: Feeling like the world is against her. Kelly decides to

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Speaker 1: do something reckless, something that will warp and color every

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Speaker 1: memory she tells me from this time. Somehow she's managed

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Speaker 1: to smuggle in a huge amount of xanax, and she

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Speaker 1: knows she needs to get rid of them.

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Speaker 2: Before they're discovered by the police.

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Speaker 1: But she also just wants to escape this situation somehow,

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Speaker 1: And right there in the palm of her hand, she

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Speaker 1: sees a solution.

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Speaker 4: Down the hair they go and there was a lot

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Speaker 4: and I didn't care if it was a suicide attempt.

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Speaker 2: Or what the hell it was.

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Speaker 4: Whatever happens happens, because it sounds like my life just

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Speaker 4: got ripped from under me because of something that I

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Speaker 4: didn't even do.

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Speaker 6: I was like, look if I die, I die.

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Speaker 1: From there, things just get worse for Kelly. Not only

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Speaker 1: is she now really high in police custody, but she's

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Speaker 1: also withdrawing. She tells the police she needs her methodone.

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Speaker 1: She's on that huge one hundred and seventy milligram daily dose,

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Speaker 1: but she's been without it for days because Tommy wouldn't

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Speaker 1: let her go to the clinic. Kelly's hoping now she's

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Speaker 1: in official police custody that they'll give her what she needs,

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Speaker 1: but they refuse. On top of this, Kelly suffers from

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Speaker 1: what's called grand mal seizures, she says. She asks repeatedly

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Speaker 1: for her seizure medication, which is in police possession, but

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Speaker 1: they say they'll only give it to her if she

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Speaker 1: writes a statement. She has multiple seizures while in custody.

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Speaker 2: She also gets her period.

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Speaker 1: She asks the cops for some sanitary but they refuse

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Speaker 1: those two They leave her bleeding into her white paper

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Speaker 1: suit it soaks right through and is visible to anyone

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Speaker 1: who sees her. And because she hasn't got anything on underneath,

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Speaker 1: every time she goes to the bathroom, she has to

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Speaker 1: strip down completely naked.

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Speaker 2: Kelly says.

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Speaker 1: Male staff gather around to watch, making comments about her body.

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Speaker 5: I'm bleeding everywhere, but you're talking about my breasts and

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Speaker 5: calling your friends in because it's a free show.

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Speaker 2: Discusting pigs.

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Speaker 5: I have absolutely no no respect for them. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 5: but they were disgusting to me. I didn't even fucking

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Speaker 5: commit this crime. How dare you? How fucking dare you?

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Speaker 1: It should be clear to anyone that Kelly is in

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Speaker 1: no fit state to give a reliable account of what's happened,

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Speaker 1: and yet four hours after her arrest, cops take down

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Speaker 1: an oral statement. Here's a quick reminder of how Kelly

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Speaker 1: described the knight of the murder.

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Speaker 2: Back in episode one.

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Speaker 1: Kelly and Tommy met Angel and they decided to drink

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Speaker 1: together while Tommy went off to buy the three of

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Speaker 1: them beers. Kelly says Angels sexually assaulted her. When Tommy returned,

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Speaker 1: Kelly told him what happened. Tommy then attacked and choked Angel.

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Speaker 1: Kelly tried to get him to stop, but Tommy pushed

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Speaker 1: her away and threatened that she would be next. After that,

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Speaker 1: Tommy forced Kelly to hand over her shoelace. He then

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Speaker 1: attempted to use it to strangle Angel, but it snapped. Next,

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Speaker 1: Kelly witnessed Tommy put his belt around Angel's neck and

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Speaker 1: finally kill him. That's what Kelly said to me in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, but it's not what she told the

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Speaker 1: police back in twenty ten.

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Speaker 4: I was woken up frantically by my boyfriend Tommy Danovan,

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Speaker 4: stating we got to get out of here now, and

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Speaker 4: then they put in.

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Speaker 1: Kelly is reading from her original oral statement, which was

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Speaker 1: taken at around eight am on July seventh. In it,

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Speaker 1: Kelly says that she didn't witness the crime at all. Instead,

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Speaker 1: she's woken up by Tommy, who tells her that he'd

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Speaker 1: seen a guy who'd stolen his shoes the previous day

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Speaker 1: and choked him unconscious.

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Speaker 6: He then tells her start packing your crap up.

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Speaker 1: Kelly starts gathering her things, and while she's doing that,

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Speaker 1: Kelly says, Tommy takes her shoelace out of her sneaker

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Speaker 1: and takes it over to the guy who's on the ground.

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Speaker 4: A male Hispanic wearing a dark collared shirt was lying

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Speaker 4: down moving in that Tommy grabbed him from behind around

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Speaker 4: the neck and choked him again for proximately ten seconds.

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Speaker 4: Kelly states that Tommy told her to kick said mail

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Speaker 4: Hispanic and that she didn't. Kelly states that Tommy let

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Speaker 4: said male Hispanic go and he fell to the ground lifeless.

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Speaker 4: You're doing okay, Yeah, it was just the part that

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Speaker 4: started because you know, the beginning is what I told

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Speaker 4: the detectives, because I was just afraid, you know, there

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Speaker 4: was no truth to it. But the part that got

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Speaker 4: me was when it became truthful that he had the

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Speaker 4: mail and that he fell lifeless.

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Speaker 6: That that gets me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, you know, because no matter what he tried,

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Speaker 1: meaning the sexual assault.

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Speaker 6: That's still a life.

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Speaker 4: At the end of the day, he's still someone's brother,

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Speaker 4: he's someone's son, possibly father.

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Speaker 2: You know, so.

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Speaker 6: Terrible.

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Speaker 1: In a written statement she gives about an hour or

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Speaker 1: so later, at about nine thirty am, Kelly sounds like

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Speaker 1: she's really grappling with the horrors of the previous night.

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Speaker 1: It honestly does read like she's high in a disjointed

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Speaker 1: stream of consciousness, where she veers from talking about her

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Speaker 1: mum's back injury, to her college scholarships to how religious

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Speaker 1: she is. Kelly writes about how putrid she feels about

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Speaker 1: all of this, and how going down for Tommy's stupidity

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Speaker 1: is such an awful feeling. I take all of that

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Speaker 1: into account, and I really do feel for the Kelly

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Speaker 1: of twenty ten. But I can't pretend that all the

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Speaker 1: inconsistencies between the story Kelly told me and the story

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Speaker 1: in these statements don't give me pause, especially this one

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Speaker 1: detail she's never told me before that Tommy ordered her

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Speaker 1: to kick Angel. In the statements from twenty ten, she

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Speaker 1: says she didn't do it, so I don't really understand

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Speaker 1: why she left it out when she told me her

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Speaker 1: version years later. For the first time, I'm grappling with

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Speaker 1: the possibility that Kelly isn't being fully open with me.

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Speaker 1: We both have stories to tell here, but I do

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Speaker 1: have this fear that they're not the same one.

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Speaker 2: Before I can go.

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Speaker 1: Any further, I need to understand more about what happened

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Speaker 1: that night, this time from Tommy's perspective. Can I just

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Speaker 1: read you this statement from Tommy?

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Speaker 2: There's some stuff that's really horrible.

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Speaker 1: I'm sack with my producer Jake in our midtown airbnb.

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Speaker 1: Tommy Donovan's statement in front of us. It's one of

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Speaker 1: a few that he gave that day. One is an

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Speaker 1: oral statement taken according to the police documents, at around

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Speaker 1: four thirty pm on July seventh, the day of the murder.

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Speaker 1: It looks like it was typed up the next day

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Speaker 1: on the eighth. With all of this confusion swirling around

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Speaker 1: in my mind, I want to look at what Tommy

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Speaker 1: had to say about what happened in the part that night.

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Speaker 1: Believe me when I say that I am not predisposed

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Speaker 1: to trust this man, but I'm working with what I've got,

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Speaker 1: and what immediately stands out to me is the weird

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Speaker 1: and colorful context Tommy seems to add to that night

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Speaker 1: in the park. So this is obviously written from the

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Speaker 1: perspective of the cop noting it down. Mister Donovan informed

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Speaker 1: me that over the past few nights they had had

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Speaker 1: problems with perverse trying to watch them having sex, and

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Speaker 1: that they had even named them nightcrawlers. Yeah, mister Donovan.

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Speaker 1: It goes on to talk about how Tommy and Kelly

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Speaker 1: were attempting to fall around on a makeshift bed under

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Speaker 1: health skatebridge. When Kelly noticed one of these night crawlers,

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Speaker 1: she stormed up and slapped him around the face, which

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Speaker 1: then prompted Tommy to chase him seventy feet across the park.

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Speaker 1: On the way back, he spotted a Hispanic man sitting

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Speaker 1: on a park bench, who said, that's not right that

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Speaker 1: they try to watch you sit and have a beer.

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Speaker 1: So can we just stop there for a minute because

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Speaker 1: it feels very made up.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, that's like somebody trying to write like a bad

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Speaker 7: script of what this kind of moment could be like.

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Speaker 7: And I'm like really trying to keep in mind that

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Speaker 7: this is what he's saying, hours after all this just happened.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Kelly also told me about how she

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Speaker 1: had to translate between Tommy and Angel, who spoke Spanish,

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Speaker 1: but there's no language barrier problem in this retellinger. Mister

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Speaker 1: Donovan states that he accepted the man's offer and took

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Speaker 1: a Morello beer. Kelly then walked over and the man

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Speaker 1: offered her a beer as well, which he accepted. Mister

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Speaker 1: Donovan informed me that the three of them had a

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Speaker 1: beer or two each while discussing different types of beers

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Speaker 1: and agreeing on how Morello is much better than Corona.

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Speaker 2: I don't have a lot to say about that, but

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Speaker 2: it's weird.

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Speaker 7: The only other thing I was thinking is like, it's

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Speaker 7: really hard for me to wrap my mind around whether

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Speaker 7: the fact that there is so much detail makes it

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Speaker 7: more or less plausible.

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Speaker 1: Mister Donovan further states that the man they had just

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Speaker 1: met introduced himself as Angel and was now asking him

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Speaker 1: to run to the bodega and buy some more beer,

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Speaker 1: and had stated, don't worry about it, I have money

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Speaker 1: and you can take my bike. Mister Donovan states that

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Speaker 1: he jumped on Angel's bike and quickly rode up to

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Speaker 1: the bodega, where he purchased six Loco beers.

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Speaker 2: So that's where the loko comes in.

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Speaker 1: He then quickly rode by Tommy Stateman then says that

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Speaker 1: when he returned, Kelly and Angel were in the same

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Speaker 1: spot he had left the men.

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Speaker 2: He says he asked Kelly if she was okay.

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Speaker 1: She stated that she was fine, and they went on

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Speaker 1: to drink the beers they bought while chatting about various topics.

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Speaker 1: Mister Donovan states that after a while, according to Tommy's statement,

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Speaker 1: he and Kelly decided they wanted to get back to

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Speaker 1: falling around under the bridge, but Angel wouldn't leave them alone.

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Speaker 1: He's begging them not to go and offering to buy

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Speaker 1: more drinks and food, eventually following them to their makeshift bed.

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Speaker 1: So Tommy told Kelly to pretend she was sleeping while

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Speaker 1: he went to pee on the woodchip pile nearby. While

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Speaker 1: he was peeing, he heard Kelly's voice and she sounded upset.

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Speaker 1: He stopped peeing in midstream and walked back over to Kelly.

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Speaker 1: Once there, Kelly informed him that Angel had just offered

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Speaker 1: her money for sex, and he had stated to her,

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Speaker 1: I want to.

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Speaker 2: Lick your pussy. I'm good at it.

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Speaker 1: Kelly further stated that Angel had said to her, I

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Speaker 1: have money and a job. I can take care of you.

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Speaker 1: Kelly informed him that Angel had just grabbed her crotch

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Speaker 1: and was visibly upset, just a warning that. The next

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Speaker 1: section talks about the murder itself. Mister Donovan states that

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Speaker 1: he became very angry, walked over to him, and pushed

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Speaker 1: him the two of them. The statement then goes on

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Speaker 1: to say that tom and Angel started wrestling on the

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Speaker 1: ground throwing and not landing punches. Eventually, Tommy gets Angel

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Speaker 1: into a chokehold with his right arm, but it wasn't working.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't specify where Kelly is, but it must be

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Speaker 1: right next to them, as it then says, Tommy tells

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Speaker 1: Kelly to kick Angel, then to kick him harder, which

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Speaker 1: it says she does numerous times in the groin.

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Speaker 2: This is where it gets kind of crazy.

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Speaker 1: Mister Donovan further stated that he then told Kelly to

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Speaker 1: give him her shoe string. He stated that she removed

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Speaker 1: her shoe string from her shoe and wrapped it around

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Speaker 1: his neck, pulling it tight and handing it to him.

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Speaker 1: He then choked him with it until he became limp

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Speaker 1: Once Angel was unconscious, and again this is coming from

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Speaker 1: Tommy's typed up oral statement, Tommy told Kelly that they

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Speaker 1: needed to get the hell out of there and started

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Speaker 1: gathering up his things. Then he walked away, and when

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Speaker 1: he looked back, he saw that Kelly was on top

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Speaker 1: of Angel, strangling him to death. He ran over and

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Speaker 1: yelled at her to go, and on their way out

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Speaker 1: of the park, Donovan.

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00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,520
Speaker 2: Says he noticed Kelly took Angel's wallet and cash.

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Speaker 1: Mister Donovan stated that he did not want to get

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Speaker 1: arrested for robbery. Really small concern there, so he grabbed

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Speaker 1: the wallet from her, threw it on the rocks, and

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00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,679
Speaker 1: put the money in his pocket. They both then crossed

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Speaker 1: the street towards the water, where they were immediately stopped

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Speaker 1: by the police, resulting in them getting arrested.

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Speaker 5: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's digest all of that properly, because it was

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Speaker 1: a lot. The inconsistencies between Kelly and Tommy's twenty ten

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Speaker 1: statements ranged from from minor to glaring. Both Tommy and

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Speaker 1: Kelly's statements mentioned the shoelace, although he says she handed

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Speaker 1: it over and she says he took it from her,

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Speaker 1: and both of them mentioned Tommy telling Kelly to kick Angel,

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Speaker 1: although they again differ on whether Kelly actually did or

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Speaker 1: didn't do it. Kelly says she was woken by Tommy

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Speaker 1: after he admitted choking out Angel, but Tommy says Kelly

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Speaker 1: was not only awake for the attack, but that she

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Speaker 1: physically put her own shoelace around Angel's neck, pulled it tight,

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Speaker 1: and handed it to Tommy. Tommy also says that while

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Speaker 1: he choked Angel, it was only to the point of unconsciousness.

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Speaker 1: Then he walked away, and when he looked back, he

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Speaker 1: saw that Kelly was on top of Angel, strangling him

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Speaker 1: to death. And then there's the differences in Kelly's accounts,

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Speaker 1: which I understand thinking about the mindset that twenty ten

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Speaker 1: Kelly was in, traumatized, scared, not to mention high, I

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Speaker 1: can tote get why she would lie to the police

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Speaker 1: to protect herself, why she'd want to distance herself from

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Speaker 1: terrible crime. But I'm also confused about what the truth is, sure,

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Speaker 1: but also why Kelly isn't opening up to me. Could

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Speaker 1: I ask you some questions about Donovan's statement.

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Speaker 6: Sure, I've been reading through it.

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Speaker 2: There are a couple of.

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Speaker 1: Things that stood out to me that seemed to be

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00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,920
Speaker 1: kind of parallels. Some stuff that came up in your

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00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 1: original statement that seemed to match and haven't come up

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Speaker 1: in our previous conversations, one of them being he asked

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Speaker 1: you to kick Ruben, Ruben being Reuben Angel Vargas the victim,

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Speaker 1: and then in his original statement you do that. In

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Speaker 1: your original statement, you also say that he asked you

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Speaker 1: to but you didn't do it. And then since we've

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Speaker 1: spoken and that hasn't been any mention of the kicking,

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Speaker 1: and so I just want to figure.

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Speaker 6: Out, Oh, okay, clarification, Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 4: So I remember the detective kept saying to me now

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Speaker 4: just right, that he told you to kick the victim,

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Speaker 4: and that you did.

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Speaker 6: Like nobody kicked him, not even my co defendant. What

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Speaker 6: really happened. When I was speaking to the Spanish man.

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Speaker 4: The decendent, he told both of us that he got

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Speaker 4: thrown out of the house because he was drinking too

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Speaker 4: much and that his brother beat him up and threw

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Speaker 4: him out.

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Speaker 2: So when you beat.

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Speaker 6: Someone up, clearly there's going to be bruising.

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Speaker 4: So they wanted to implicate me, just for me to

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Speaker 4: take the blame on doing something, and he yelled at

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Speaker 4: me to the point where I wrote the words just

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Speaker 4: for them to stop. I remember thinking, this is how

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Speaker 4: confessions come about.

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Speaker 2: I think Kelly means false confessions here.

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Speaker 6: The fact that I'm writing he told me to kick him.

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Speaker 6: That was a lie. That was a complete lie.

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Speaker 4: But I felt like since the word kick is in there,

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Speaker 4: they'll lay off a little bit, and they did.

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Speaker 1: The reason I ask about the kicking is because to me,

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Speaker 1: if somebody did what is said in Tommy's statement, kicking

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Speaker 1: someone to get them away is not at all a

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Speaker 1: bad things. And so I'm just saying like, if that

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Speaker 1: had happened, No, no, I would be not share the

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Speaker 1: fuck enough, you.

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Speaker 6: Know, No, No, I get it. This is what I'm

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Speaker 6: trying to say. If I kicked him one hundred percent,

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Speaker 6: I would tell you I kicked him. But if I

357
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Speaker 6: didn't kick him, I didn't kick him. I almost wish

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Speaker 6: I kicked him at this point.

359
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 4: I didn't kick him. You know why, I was too

360
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Speaker 4: fucking scared to kick him. I was not going back there.

361
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,919
Speaker 4: You have to think of the domestic violence aspect and

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Speaker 4: not the truth finding aspect. The domestic violence aspect of

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00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 4: the matter is that I was afraid of Tommy.

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Speaker 6: You think I'm gonna.

365
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 4: Be busy trying to kick him in when I'm trying

366
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Speaker 4: to figure out how the hell am I going to

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Speaker 4: get out of this one?

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Speaker 2: Well, I live to see.

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Speaker 6: The next minute, of course. No, I'm not gonna worry

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Speaker 6: about going to kick someone.

371
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Speaker 4: I adopted what they stated just to write it, so

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Speaker 4: they leave me the fuck alone.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to be really honest here about a

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Speaker 1: couple of things. Number one is that I'm not proud

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Speaker 1: of the take that you just heard, then I nearly

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Speaker 1: didn't include it. Number two is that I feel so

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Speaker 1: fucking out of my depth right now. In all the

378
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Speaker 1: years I've spent making this show, speaking to countless survivors

379
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 1: of domestic and gendered violence, I've never upset someone like that.

380
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Speaker 1: But then I've never dealt with someone as complicated as Kelly,

381
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Speaker 1: and I have absolutely no idea where to go from here.

382
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 1: I spend a lot of time running back that conversation

383
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Speaker 1: between me and Kelly in my head, when she spoke

384
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Speaker 1: about hoping that the police would leave her the fuck alone.

385
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Speaker 1: I can't help but feel like she was also talking

386
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Speaker 1: to me, which feels like shit. The last thing I

387
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 1: want Kelly to feel is attacked or judged, because for me,

388
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 1: so much of this job of interviewing people, of getting

389
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Speaker 1: them to share their experiences with me, it's a relationship

390
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 1: one based around mutual respects and trust, one that I

391
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Speaker 1: honestly tend to find pretty easy to build. I'm struggling

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Speaker 1: to build that mutual trust with Kelly. Sometimes I feel

393
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Speaker 1: like she's telling me exactly what I want to hear,

394
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: and in other times I can feel like she's keeping

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Speaker 1: me at arm's length. I'm going to go out on

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Speaker 1: a limb here and say that I do not in

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Speaker 1: any way believe the part of Tommy's statement where he

398
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Speaker 1: says Kelly physically strangled Angel. I think this was nothing

399
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: more than him trying to shift some of the blame

400
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: for his crime. But I can't ignore the fact that

401
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: it is possible that Kelly could have kicked Angel. It's

402
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: mentioned in both statements, so I feel like I have

403
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 1: to at least consider it. But even if she did

404
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: kick Angel, for me, it would just be another sign

405
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: of the terrible situation she was in and of the

406
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 1: power Tommy had over her, not proof that she killed anyone.

407
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 1: I do think Kelly has a point about the police

408
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 1: pushing her to write what they wanted, because when I

409
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: start looking into things a little deeper, it does feel

410
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 1: like there's something funny going on in these statements. This

411
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: next section gets into the weeds a little bit, but

412
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: stay with me. Remember how I said Tommy gave multiple

413
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: statements to the police. Well, one of them is a

414
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: handwritten statement, which was made at about six pm on

415
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: July seventh. In that statement, he isn't as certain about

416
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 1: the details. He says he couldn't remember if Kelly said

417
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: Angel tried to touch her or did touch her.

418
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 2: But in the officer's typed up.

419
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: Version you've just heard me and producer Jake reading, that

420
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: uncertainty is nowhere to be found. Also in the typed version,

421
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: it says Kelly kicked Angel on Tommy's orders and then

422
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: robbed Angel's dead body for good measure, But in the

423
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: written version by Tommy himself, there's no mention of the

424
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: kicking or of the robbery, which seems like a pretty

425
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: big omission to me.

426
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 2: Two pretty big emissions.

427
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: I know these might seem like small detail, but I

428
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: do think it's worth examining how statements can become, let's

429
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: just say, refined by police who are trying to build

430
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: an air tight case. The more I look into it,

431
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: the more confused I become. The awkward truth is, you

432
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: either believe Kelly's story now or you don't. For me,

433
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: it comes down to that trust again. I can't ignore

434
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: the possibility, However uncomfortable it is to face that Kelly

435
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: could be hiding things, things she doesn't want to say

436
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: because she thinks it makes her look bad, less like

437
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: a victim, more like a villain. Maybe, because she doesn't

438
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: trust that I'm able to understand. Doesn't think I can

439
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: extend my compassion to someone who's done a bad thing

440
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: in the name of survival, even though that's at the

441
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: heart of what I'm trying to do with this series.

442
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 1: But I can't say I really blame her after the

443
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: way our last conversation went down, I feel like this

444
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: story is exposing all of my blind spots. I don't

445
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: know how to tell Kelly's story. I don't know who

446
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: she is in the story. Who's the victim?

447
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 7: I think everybody's the victim, Like they're all the victim.

448
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 7: You could put everybody in a different role, you could

449
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 7: like make it whatever you want it to be.

450
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: But yeah, everyone's a victim. Everyone's a villain. How do

451
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 2: you like that?

452
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,479
Speaker 7: iHeart end of series?

453
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 2: End of series.

454
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: Wraps, and not just yet. I'm not going to throw

455
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: in the towel that easy. So let's go back to

456
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: July twenty ten. Kelly's not sure exactly how long she'd

457
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 1: been at the one hundred and fourteenth Precinct for things

458
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 1: must be hazy as she comes down from the fistful

459
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: of xanax she swallowed when she first arrived.

460
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: But she has a rough idea.

461
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 5: I figured out how long I was there by touching

462
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 5: my legs and judging by the length of the hair

463
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 5: on my legs, because I shave every single day, and

464
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 5: I could tell I was like, I've been here for

465
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 5: a little bit over two days now.

466
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: Using leg hair as plock hands is honestly ingenious, and

467
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: Kelly's probably about right because according to New York law, generally,

468
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: you're only allowed to hold someone for up to seventy

469
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: two hours before you either charge them or release them. Unfortunately,

470
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: for Kelly, it's the former. Kelly's taken to be formally

471
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: charged in Queen's cord. She's still in that bloodstained paper suit.

472
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 2: Paper.

473
00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 5: Nothing more than paper, not even shoes, and my own

474
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 5: blood coming everywhere.

475
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 2: She's being arraigned alongside Tommy.

476
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 5: The first thing I noticed, which is unbelievable and the

477
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 5: one fourteenth persons should be absolutely ashamed of themselves, is

478
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 5: that he was wearing his own clothes.

479
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 6: The admitted murderer.

480
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 5: Had his own clothes on while they took me the

481
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 5: female's clothes.

482
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: How dare they?

483
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: Tommy is brought up to the stand next to Kelly.

484
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: They're out side by side. She takes a moment to

485
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: look him up and down, and that's when she realizes something.

486
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 5: Not only did he get to keep his own clothes,

487
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 5: he had his belt on.

488
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: The belt that, according to Kelly, Tommy used to strangle

489
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: Angel to death.

490
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 5: They let him in with the weapon that killed someone,

491
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 5: that took someone's life.

492
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: Kelly's fuming, and I get it. The indignity she's suffered

493
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: for the past few days in the police precinct would

494
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: be hard for anyone to bear. And for the record,

495
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: I find it supremely fucked up how differently Kelly says

496
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: she and Tommy are being treated. It isn't right under

497
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: any circumstances. Whether or not you believe that Kelly kicked Angel.

498
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 5: I swear on my mother's ashes, I really did not

499
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 5: kick that man. May I go to hell for all

500
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 5: of it tearing me.

501
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 2: I did not kick that man.

502
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 5: But even if I did, he admittedly strangled him. Why

503
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 5: wouldn't you take his clothing? Even if I kicked him?

504
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 6: What if that had to do with my bra and pennies?

505
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 5: It's such a violation of every civil rate, like you

506
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 5: treating me less than a human being.

507
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 2: That's what they put me through.

508
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 5: This is the justice system.

509
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 6: In God, we trust.

510
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 5: No, you know you don't trust in God. If you

511
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 5: do that to people, there is no God there.

512
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: Once Kelly and Tommy are arraigned, they're taken out of

513
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: the courtroom and walk towards a jail transfer bus, one

514
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: that is hauntingly familiar to Kelly. When Kelly was a

515
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: little girl, she and her brother Ronnie used to play

516
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: around at their aunt's house.

517
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 4: She lived the house right there where you turned and

518
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 4: went to the bridge to go to Rikers.

519
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 2: As in Rikers Island jail.

520
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 6: And I would be playing in the front.

521
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 4: The Rikers Island buses used to pierced by all the

522
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 4: time and then curve right into where Rikers is.

523
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: As the buses crept past the two children, the passenger's

524
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: eyes turned to them.

525
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 4: They would be watching Ronnie and I and I would

526
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 4: see those buses pass all.

527
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 6: The time, and I was like, what's those buses? Why

528
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 6: do they have cages?

529
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: Now decades on, Kelly's an adult stepping onto one of

530
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: those buses, it.

531
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: Was all men and just me.

532
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 5: And tell me it was on the bus and all

533
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 5: the men were calling me a dirty bitch. Not that

534
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 5: I look dirty, because I take showers every day, but

535
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 5: because of my female.

536
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: Issue, the bloodstained paper suit.

537
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 5: Dirty bitch, smelly bitch, you smell like fish, just and

538
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 5: that I'm just waiting for time me to say something

539
00:32:59,160 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 5: he never did.

540
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: The bus winds through the city, passing the same garden

541
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: Kelly and her brother Ronnie played in as children, except

542
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: now it's Kelly who's looking out through a caged window

543
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: on her way to Rikers Island jail.

544
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 4: Rikers had seriously dangerous people and it scared the hell

545
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 4: out of me.

546
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: Next time, on The Girlfriend's Jailhouse Lawyer, Kelly fights to

547
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: prove her innocence and to survive life in Rikers.

548
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 5: Well, this was the survival of the fittest.

549
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: Only the strong survive. Our sisterhood called ourselves. The showdies.

550
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 2: I'm not guilty.

551
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 6: I plan on taking this to trial.

552
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: Don't go to child, Please, don't go to child.

553
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 6: She goes Harnett.

554
00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: You guys, start finding your case.

555
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 6: If you're king the love of my life? Oh God,

556
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 6: how are n it?

557
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: Jelhouse Lawyer.

558
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: The Girlfriend's Jelhouse Lawyer is produced by Novel for iHeart Podcasts.

559
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: For more from Novel, visit novel Dot Audio. The show

560
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: is hosted by me Anna Sinfield and is written and

561
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: produced by me and Lee Meyer, with additional production from

562
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: Jako Taivich and Michael Jino. Our assistant producer is Madeline Parr.

563
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: The editors are Georgia Moody and me Annasinfield. Production management

564
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: from Shari Houston, Joe Savage and Charlotte Wolfe. Our fact

565
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: checker is Daniel Suleiman. Sound design, mixing and scoring by

566
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: Daniel Kempson and Nicholas Alexander. Music supervision by me Alis Infield,

567
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: Lee Meyer and Nicholas Alexander. Original music composed by Nicholas Alexander,

568
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: Daniel Kempson and Louisa Gerstein. Story development by Nell Gray

569
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: Andrews and Willard Foxton. Creative director of Novel, Max O'Brien

570
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: and Craig Strachan are executive producers for Novel, and Katrina

571
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: Norvell and Nicki Eator are the executive producers for iHeart Podcasts,

572
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: and the marketing lead is Alison Cantor. Thanks also to

573
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: Carry Lieberman and the whole team at WME