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Speaker 1: Welcome to desperately devoted Think of us as your favorite

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Speaker 1: neighbors as we chat about life and relationships.

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Speaker 2: All while we revisit the iconic show Desperate Housewives together.

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Speaker 1: I'm Terry Hatcher, I'm Andrea Bowen, and I'm Emerson Tony. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're back and we're here to continue talking about episode twenty.

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Speaker 1: And actually, you know this aired at the beginning of May,

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Speaker 1: which is also when a very famous cover of all

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Speaker 1: of us girls on Vanity Fair magazine came out in

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Speaker 1: that first week of May, and I thought this was crazy.

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Speaker 1: So that was a very iconic photo by a pool,

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Speaker 1: all of us in bathing suits looking fabulous. And just

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Speaker 1: the other week, the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City

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Speaker 1: did a copy of our photo for the cover of

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Speaker 1: US magazine to promote their show, and down to the tea,

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Speaker 1: like one of the women was wearing a red bathing

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Speaker 1: suit like me, one of the women was wearing a

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Speaker 1: black bathing suit and lying across on a lounge chair

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Speaker 1: like Eva was. I mean, it was exactly the same

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Speaker 1: foot And I just know we're here doing this podcast

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Speaker 1: partly because the show continues to be relevant to a

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Speaker 1: certain group of people and new generations of people seem

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Speaker 1: to be enjoying it. But isn't that crazy that this

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Speaker 1: this image from pop culture was I guess significant enough

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Speaker 1: that a show that's actually on the air right now

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Speaker 1: uses it to promote their show.

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Speaker 3: It's amazing. I mean, it's it's it's actually very cool

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Speaker 3: that the show has maintained this type of relevance. But

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Speaker 3: also we've noted that there's a little there's an obvious

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Speaker 3: tie in between the Real Housewives franchise and Desperate Housewives,

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Speaker 3: and so I sort of love that they just went

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Speaker 3: full let's let yeah.

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Speaker 1: Let's just do it. Do you have an all time

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Speaker 1: favorite house? Real house Oh my gosh, because I know

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Speaker 1: what you'd say if I asked you your all time

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Speaker 1: favorite house. Well, that's right, no, no, no answer.

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Speaker 3: I am a big sonya Morgan fan, I love me

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Speaker 3: some Dunda, which is a reference to the show for this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, really, then, you guys have I've heard

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Speaker 1: It's not like one I've heard is supposed to be

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Speaker 1: really good. It is.

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Speaker 3: It's really good because they're all bold and and and

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Speaker 3: they put it all out there and it's just h.

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Speaker 1: Well, that makes sense why they did the cover because

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Speaker 1: we were bold and put it all out there.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, yeah, and you're all You're

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Speaker 2: all by a pool in the cover. And here we

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Speaker 2: are at the end of episode twenty buy a pool again.

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Speaker 3: Yes, this time by Gabby and Carlos's pool in their backyard.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: I had a wildly large fiesta party to go.

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Speaker 1: Away going to prison y you know, as one does.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, full of drama, full of Gabby slapping Carlos in

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Speaker 2: the face and realizing he's been tampering with her birth control,

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Speaker 2: full of so many things.

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Speaker 3: Brion George end up in the pool because Rex pushes

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Speaker 3: George into the pool.

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Speaker 2: And he takes Bree down with him, which I feel

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Speaker 2: like that's gonna pay off more.

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Speaker 3: Ali breaks up with Zach.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what I wanted to get to. Yes, Julie

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Speaker 2: breaks up with Zach and I find it interesting because

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Speaker 2: at the beginning of episode twenty, Julie says to Susan God,

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Speaker 2: I've been trying to break up with him for so long. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and you even said when we were talking about it

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Speaker 2: that you, as an actor, like, didn't even remember how

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Speaker 2: significant this storyline was between Julie and Zach. And I

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Speaker 2: think that is probably because Julie was not particularly present

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Speaker 2: or significantly invested in the relationship with Zach. It's such

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Speaker 2: a one sided I mean when we see that final

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Speaker 2: of how Zach has like all these images of Julie

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Speaker 2: up on his wall a camera, I know I would

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Speaker 2: a borderline obsession. Have you ever found yourself in a

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Speaker 2: dynamic that was a maybe initially a romantic relationship that

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Speaker 2: then you realized very quickly you were on very different

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Speaker 2: pages with the person than they were on with you.

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Speaker 2: Or similarly, have you ever struggled to end a relationship

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Speaker 2: like to you think it's been clear and and the

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Speaker 2: other person doesn't, or you like it's hard to break up.

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Speaker 2: Have you just turn that question back? Yeah, immediately, No,

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Speaker 2: I just like as you were saying, and I was

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Speaker 2: just like, oh, I wonder if you have I think

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Speaker 2: I have. I have certainly been in a few relationships

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Speaker 2: that I I'm one in particular is coming to mind

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Speaker 2: where I feel like I knew for a long time

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Speaker 2: that the relationship was not right for me, and that

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Speaker 2: I had and I was compared to from well, this

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Speaker 2: is the fascinating psychology of it. Like, I think I

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Speaker 2: was transparent with the person I was dating at the

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Speaker 2: time and told her and said, you know, I'm not

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Speaker 2: ready for this committed of a relationship. I whatever like

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Speaker 2: from the jump of our relationship, and I feel like

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Speaker 2: she sort of strong armed like, well, I don't want

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Speaker 2: to date casually into me being like well, I do

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Speaker 2: still want to see each other, and so I sort

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Speaker 2: of agreed to be in more of a committed relationship

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Speaker 2: than I was ready for. Yeah, and that I mean

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Speaker 2: from that very inception with someone who is a bit

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Speaker 2: more like domineering personality. I felt for months in the relationship.

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Speaker 2: I know this isn't right. I don't want to be

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Speaker 2: in this, but I she had a hold on me.

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Speaker 2: I really and I've never I've not since then or

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Speaker 2: before then, ever experienced something quite like it. Maybe it's

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Speaker 2: because it was the first woman that I like, seriously

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Speaker 2: had a committed relationship with, a committed, romantic reallytionship with,

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Speaker 2: and I think you're when you come out your first

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Speaker 2: queer relationship often holds a lot of significance and a

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Speaker 2: lot of fear around the idea of, well, if I'm

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Speaker 2: finally feeling attracted to this person in a way that

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Speaker 2: feels like how I am attracted to people, and if

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Speaker 2: this relationship ends, will I ever feel that attraction to

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Speaker 2: someone else. I think there was just like much more

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Speaker 2: fear in ending that at the time. And obviously since then,

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Speaker 2: I've gone on to be in other relationships and I

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Speaker 2: don't have that feeling. But it was tough, and I

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Speaker 2: remember when we finally did finally did break up, being like,

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Speaker 2: I've tried to do this for a few months and

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Speaker 2: now I have to really just do it. And I

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Speaker 2: felt for Julie in this scene.

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Speaker 3: You know, I do think Julie has done nothing wrong,

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Speaker 3: Like I think it's totally okay that she has moved

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Speaker 3: on and she's not interested in continuing this relationship, and

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Speaker 3: I think that needs to be loud and clear respected.

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Speaker 3: But I on the heels of obviously, we know that

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Speaker 3: Paul has that horrifying line to Zach in this episode

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Speaker 3: where he tells him that Julie could have anyone she

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Speaker 3: wants and that he can't because he's not that special.

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Speaker 2: I was like, yes, that's right, Julie, go off, you

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Speaker 2: can have anyone you want.

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Speaker 3: And then you know he is trying still with Julie

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Speaker 3: and she's like, listen, I don't want to hang out

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Speaker 3: with you. I don't want to talk to you. I

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Speaker 3: don't want to date you. You know, she has been.

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Speaker 1: Really weird when you get pushed into like having to

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Speaker 1: be mean yes, yeah, because they just won't accept what

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Speaker 1: you're saying. Yeah, trying to say it nicely, like letting

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Speaker 1: them down gently, and they just won't let you.

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Speaker 2: I've had someone in a breakup say to me before,

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Speaker 2: just say you're not in love with me any like,

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Speaker 2: like say you don't love me anymore.

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Speaker 1: In what way were they trying to just actually say that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well I don't I don't know what they were

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Speaker 2: trying to accomplish in that. I was trying to because

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Speaker 2: I do hold a lot like you can have love

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Speaker 2: for someone and not want to be in a relationship

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Speaker 2: with them anymore. But I remember feeling like, God, that's

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Speaker 2: so mean. But they were like, I need to hear

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Speaker 2: you say I don't love you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. What they really needed was to somehow be able

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Speaker 1: to position you as the villain so that it wasn't

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Speaker 1: like so hard for them. I feel like the last

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Speaker 1: the person that I broke up with that I still

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Speaker 1: cared about, Like this thing you're talking about, I did

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Speaker 1: so when you were still pretty young, like maybe seven

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Speaker 1: or so, and the dating was getting to the point

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Speaker 1: where the other person wanted it to be more serious,

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Speaker 1: which then, of course was going to involve being in

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Speaker 1: the house more and then you become more inclusive with

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Speaker 1: your child. And I just couldn't do it. I just

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Speaker 1: couldn't do that. And and I feel like the person

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Speaker 1: did push me to be me because they they I

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Speaker 1: didn't know how to break it off and be nice,

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Speaker 1: because they just they just didn't want to accept where

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Speaker 1: I was at. And in hindsight, what is really been

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Speaker 1: interesting to me twenty years later, as I'd sort of

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Speaker 1: done work on myself and like, looking back, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was abused as a child and by my uncle,

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Speaker 1: and it makes so much sense to me in hindsight

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Speaker 1: that some unconscious part of me was never going to

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Speaker 1: let a man that wasn't your father into our house.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't think I knew it at the time,

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Speaker 1: Like I wasn't purposefully walking around going well, I can't

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Speaker 1: have a man that isn't Emerson's father in this house.

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Speaker 1: But the discomfort that, just like on a cellular basis,

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Speaker 1: lived in my body, I just don't think I was

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Speaker 1: going to fall in love and have a relationship while

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Speaker 1: you were still a child.

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Speaker 2: You weren't able to let yourself do that.

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Speaker 1: I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: That's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: I really don't think so.

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Speaker 2: I've never heard you say it like that. That makes

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Speaker 2: so much sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes sense to me too.

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Speaker 3: Just said, is such a proof of so much time

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Speaker 3: that you have reflected on your life and your choices.

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Speaker 3: And I mean, I think that's incredible. I'm curious how long,

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Speaker 3: like when did you unpack that?

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Speaker 1: Probably when Emerson was in college, okay, and I was

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Speaker 1: beginning to be like an empty nester and really look

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Speaker 1: at my surroundings alone in the house, and I think

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Speaker 1: I was talking to a therapist and also understanding what

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Speaker 1: are my hang ups with intimacy or trust or all

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Speaker 1: of that that comes along with being a survivor. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, when you're a busy mom

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Speaker 1: and you're busy protecting your child, and you're busy focusing

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Speaker 1: on lifting your child up and giving them every opportunity,

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Speaker 1: and those are all the things that I was doing,

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Speaker 1: along with making the money to support all of those things.

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Speaker 1: There just wasn't I didn't have to look at it

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Speaker 1: I didn't really have to question, you know, why am

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Speaker 1: I not dating? Like why am I not letting myself

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Speaker 1: fall in love with someone? You know, It wasn't really

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Speaker 1: until after you went to college and then on upwards

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Speaker 1: and onwards out with your adult life that I was

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Speaker 1: sort of left with the space to go what happened there? Right?

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Speaker 1: And I do find also that women are you know,

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Speaker 1: self sufficient in terms of like I think men when

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Speaker 1: they get out of marriages, like they do, tend to

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Speaker 1: just get right back into you know, because like men

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Speaker 1: need support systems, women are really good doing it by themselves.

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Speaker 1: But you know, so there might have been a tiny

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Speaker 1: bit of that too, But I'm honest with myself when

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Speaker 1: I reflect on it, to look at that, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it is what it is. I'm not sorry about.

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Speaker 2: It, but well, you do what you can with the

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Speaker 2: tools you have at the time that you have them.

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Speaker 1: You know, is that something I said to you, because

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Speaker 1: I feel like I've said that to.

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Speaker 2: You probably something along those lines, but really to take it.

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Speaker 1: That was one of my not bad parenting moments. No,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't a bad parent.

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Speaker 2: Now you're a good parent.

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you for sharing that, Terry.

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Speaker 1: Well, I hope it helps somebody. I mean, I hope

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Speaker 1: you know all of our you know, but I kind

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Speaker 1: of like laugh that off because I do believe what

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Speaker 1: you said. Say that again, Uh, you.

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Speaker 2: Do what you can with the tools you have at

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Speaker 2: the time that you have them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that actually should be on a

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Speaker 1: shirt because what hearing that deeply and sort of considering

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Speaker 1: what that means is that we should all be giving

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Speaker 1: ourselves a bigger break for what we haven't done right

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Speaker 1: in the time that we did it. You know that

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Speaker 1: that we might feel like, oh I could have done

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Speaker 1: that better. I wish that had been different. And I

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Speaker 1: really do think that that is true. You know, part

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Speaker 1: of the joy of being human is growing and changing

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Speaker 1: and learning and becoming better and and so you can't

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Speaker 1: be mad at yourself about what you weren't able to

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Speaker 1: do fifteen years ago because you didn't have the tools. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think that's great advice. I think that's great advice

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Speaker 3: for life. I think that's great advice when you're trying

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Speaker 3: to get yourself out of a relationship and not knowing

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Speaker 3: how to gracefully do that. And so thank you for

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Speaker 3: adding another tool to my tool belt.

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Speaker 1: TV Mom TV Mom, TV Mom.

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Speaker 2: That's my favorite thing of it too. I'm jealous. I

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Speaker 2: can't say it well, you get mom.

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Speaker 1: Real mom. Okay, so this is TV Mom and real

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Speaker 1: Mom saying goodbye and good luck.

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Speaker 2: Now until next week.

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Speaker 3: We will not be breaking up with you because we

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Speaker 3: are desperately devoted to you