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Speaker 2: Now, would you want to get to one thing that
Speaker 2: is certainly toplined for world leaders at G twenty and elsewhere?
Speaker 3: Dj T Donald J. Trump's administration and.
Speaker 2: Cabinet picks chief among them, who will take the job
Speaker 2: of US Treasury Secretary.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's kind of turning into this game of thrones,
Speaker 4: and that's where we go now to jockeying around the
Speaker 4: selection for the nation's next treasury secretary. Bloomberg business Week
Speaker 4: national correspondent Josh Green joins us on that and on
Speaker 4: his BusinessWeek story on the President Elect's impossible task. Josh
Speaker 4: is the author of Devils Bargain, Steve Bannon, Donald Trump
Speaker 4: and the Nationalists Uprising and the Rebels, Elizabeth Warrenney Sanders,
Speaker 4: Alexandria Kasia Cortez and the Struggle Free New American Politics.
Speaker 2: All right, Josh, great to have you here. Josh joining
Speaker 2: us from our Bloomberg Washington DC bureau. Hey, Josh, first step,
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about the pick for Treasury
Speaker 2: secretary or the process in the behind the scenes, a
Speaker 2: super important job. Wall Street is watching, the world is watching.
Speaker 2: What are you hearing about this process?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Oh, I put process in quotes.
Speaker 6: First of all, I mean it's turned out into like
Speaker 6: an absolute blood bath, with competing candidates stabbing each other
Speaker 6: in the back. And what you have now is a
Speaker 6: list of people who are under consideration. Howard Lutnick, Scott Bessant,
Speaker 6: Robert Leitthheiser, the former trade representative. None of them has
Speaker 6: been named. There's a lot of jockey going on behind
Speaker 6: the scenes. Trump himself doesn't seem to be happy with
Speaker 6: any of the candidates, and as we report in Bloomberg,
Speaker 6: he's very unhappy that these fights have spilled out into
Speaker 6: public view. So the latest we're hearing is that Trump
Speaker 6: is sort of casting about for somebody who would fill
Speaker 6: what he thinks is the role of Treasury attacker, meaning
Speaker 6: somebody big, powerful, respected by Wall Street. Some of the
Speaker 6: names we're hearing and have reported Mark Rowan of Apollo,
Speaker 6: Kevin Walsh, the former Fed governor. There are other dark
Speaker 6: horse names floating around, but right now everybody in Washington's
Speaker 6: trying to figure out, you know, where where the musical
Speaker 6: chairs will stop and who will wind up in that
Speaker 6: very important position.
Speaker 4: Is it hard to find somebody who's respected by Wall
Speaker 4: Street but also believes what Donald Trump believes when it
Speaker 4: comes to tariff's Josh, yeah, I.
Speaker 6: Think that's exactly the tension is. You can Trump can
Speaker 6: certainly find someone like a Lighthiveser who really believes in
Speaker 6: the use of tariffs. But as a number of sources
Speaker 6: told us, wall Street would would would panic if somebody
Speaker 6: who was seen as too extreme on tariffs gets in there.
Speaker 6: On the other hand, you have guys with stirling reputations
Speaker 6: who would be embraced I think by wall Street both
Speaker 6: a warsh or a best and somebody like that who
Speaker 6: may not be as willing to come out and embrace,
Speaker 6: embrace a steep tariff regime of the type that Trumps
Speaker 6: has bandied about, knowing that the damage that that could
Speaker 6: potentally caused to markets if they were implemented, you know,
Speaker 6: and disrupted a lot of things in the global markets.
Speaker 6: So it's tough to find just the right candidate who
Speaker 6: has both the stature, the wealth, the name that Trump wants,
Speaker 6: and also the willingness to do Trump's bidding.
Speaker 2: Hey, Josh, we have not had a chance to talk
Speaker 2: to you about the election outcome. You really wrote the
Speaker 2: book An Understanding Donald Trump's first run at the White
Speaker 2: House and his win that time around. What do you
Speaker 2: make of him running a winning excuse me, a second term?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it was a surprise to a lot
Speaker 6: of people, but in a lot of ways, it's a
Speaker 6: much more impressive victory than his win in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 6: which took a lot of people by surprise. He did
Speaker 6: not win a majority of the popular vote that time.
Speaker 6: Looks almost certain that he will this time. And I
Speaker 6: think what's most important is the coalition that Trump put
Speaker 6: together and winning the twenty twenty four election. There were
Speaker 6: both the kind of high wattage billionaire supporters, people like
Speaker 6: Howard lutt Nick and Elon Musk, But on the other hand,
Speaker 6: Trump cobbled together a really racially diverse, working class coalition
Speaker 6: that we hadn't seen the last time around. A lot
Speaker 6: of voters that traditionally vote Democrat were persuaded to come
Speaker 6: over and vote for Trump, and as a result, he
Speaker 6: has a really big coalition. As I write about in
Speaker 6: the new issue of BusinessWeek, Trump has pursued this kind
Speaker 6: of what I call plutocratic populism, and I think the
Speaker 6: main tension in his second presidency is going to be
Speaker 6: how to balance the interests of working class people with
Speaker 6: the interests of the billionaire and Wall Street crowd, who
Speaker 6: are another important coalition form.
Speaker 4: So let's talk a little bit about that, Josh. Because
Speaker 4: you came with receipts, you have the numbers here. Why
Speaker 4: is that an impossible task? Why is he unable to
Speaker 4: do that and make good on really every promise that
Speaker 4: he made on the campaign trail.
Speaker 6: Well, if you look at exit poll numbers and just
Speaker 6: in my own interviews with undecided voters and people were
Speaker 6: Trump supporters, a lot of what drove Trump's support was
Speaker 6: voter anger, especially working class voter anger over inflation high prices,
Speaker 6: for which they blamed Kamala Harris personally. They didn't want
Speaker 6: her back in that y. They remember the Trump era,
Speaker 6: rightly or wrongly, as a time of lower prices, lower inflation,
Speaker 6: strong paychecks for everybody, and so they voted for Trump
Speaker 6: in the hopes that he would bring that back. But
Speaker 6: if you look at what some of Trump is planning
Speaker 6: to do, you know, the first item on his agenda
Speaker 6: looks to be extending his twenty seventeen tax cuts and
Speaker 6: maybe even cutting corporate taxes deeper than he did the
Speaker 6: first time around, which would be very exciting to his
Speaker 6: Wall Street contingent, to his billionaire contingent. But it could
Speaker 6: certainly help exacerbate inflation, as could a steep.
Speaker 5: Round of tariff.
Speaker 6: So on the one hand, you know, you could satisfy
Speaker 6: one half of the coalition, But if the cost of
Speaker 6: that was for prices, inflation, and interest rates to rise again,
Speaker 6: then a lot of the same working class voters who
Speaker 6: supported him two weeks ago could potentially turn on him
Speaker 6: and Republicans in the midterm elections and handpower back to
Speaker 6: the Democrats.
Speaker 2: Hey, how much do you think, though Donald J. Trump
Speaker 2: thinks about the midterms at this point? All right?
Speaker 3: I mean essentially, right, this is his second term, he's
Speaker 3: a lame duck president.
Speaker 2: He can do a lot of stuff, and he's got
Speaker 2: a Congress, But how much do you think he thinks
Speaker 2: about what happens at midterms versus following through on his mandate?
Speaker 5: It's a great question, Carrol.
Speaker 6: It's one I've asked to some people around him, and
Speaker 6: the truthful answer I got is he doesn't really care
Speaker 6: at all. What he cares about is this approval rating.
Speaker 6: He'd like to have a booming stock market the way
Speaker 6: he did in his first term, and so part of
Speaker 6: the thinking in Trump world is that even if he
Speaker 6: did promote someone a Treasury secretary who got behind this
Speaker 6: tariff regime and things went badly in the economy, if
Speaker 6: the market were to fall, that might be a kind
Speaker 6: of disciplining mechanism for Trump to step back a little bit,
Speaker 6: because he really does view the stock market, the S
Speaker 6: and P as a kind of verdict on the success
Speaker 6: or failure of his presidency. But certainly, thinking about the
Speaker 6: fortunes of congressional Republicans in twenty twenty six probably not
Speaker 6: top of mind for Donald Trump right now.
Speaker 5: That's interesting to hear. Why do you think that is?
Speaker 4: Because it sort of does provide, to a certain extent,
Speaker 4: a check on what he's able to do, Because if
Speaker 4: he puts policies into place that are unpopular among his base,
Speaker 4: then he could really pay a price in the midterms.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he could.
Speaker 6: I mean, I've gotten a couple answers from that in
Speaker 6: my reporting. One is that Trump simply does not believe
Speaker 6: what most mainstream economists believe, and that is that tariffs
Speaker 6: are inflationary and the cost will be passed along to
Speaker 6: consumers in the form of higher prices. I and my
Speaker 6: Business We colleagues got to ask Trump about that for
Speaker 6: a Business We Cover story cover interview we did with
Speaker 6: Donald Trump back in July at mar A Lago, and
Speaker 6: he simply disagrees. He said, well, if tariffs were inflationary,
Speaker 6: we would have had inflation during my first presidency when
Speaker 6: I imposed rounds of tariffs, and we didn't, and therefore
Speaker 6: it's not going.
Speaker 5: To be a problem.
Speaker 6: A lot of people around Trump publicly surrogates, have taken
Speaker 6: to echoing those points. So, as one of my sources
Speaker 6: pointed out to me in my current Business Week story,
Speaker 6: Trump doesn't believe that tariffs are inflationary. Therefore he's not
Speaker 6: going to believe it until they're implemented and until we
Speaker 6: see inflation. So to me, that suggests that we may
Speaker 6: be in for a rocky ride financially economically over the
Speaker 6: next four years if Trump is able to go ahead
Speaker 6: and do what he says he's going to do. And
Speaker 6: there are fewer guardrails and fewer breaks with Republicans controlling
Speaker 6: all three branches of Congress now than there were last
Speaker 6: time around. So I think I think his theories on
Speaker 6: tariffs and everything else make it a real test run.
Speaker 2: I also do wonder, Josh, do you think Donald Trump
Speaker 2: thinks about his legacy? You know two assassination tempts, you know,
Speaker 2: one that we you know, obviously more serious it seems,
Speaker 2: in certainly than the other one. But I do wonder
Speaker 2: if he's an older man, right, we all get older,
Speaker 2: we start to think about kind of our life's impact.
Speaker 2: Is this your understanding of him?
Speaker 3: You think he's thinking about that?
Speaker 6: In this second, I'll say this, I'll say that you know,
Speaker 6: he and I have I've never had that discussion. But
Speaker 6: from everything I've seen from him, from everything I've heard
Speaker 6: from people around him, Trump tends to live in the
Speaker 6: here and now. I mean he is responsive to the
Speaker 6: cable chirons that he sees on TV. He's responsive to
Speaker 6: the closing price in the stock market. He's responsive to,
Speaker 6: you know, whether or not the Justice Department is going
Speaker 6: to convict him and send him to jail. Which it
Speaker 6: doesn't look what they are now, not so much thinking
Speaker 6: about how his obituary will look in the New York Times.
Speaker 6: But that being said, look, all presidents like to succeed.
Speaker 6: I'm sure Trump would like high approval numbers and a
Speaker 6: lot of the signifiers that Trump looks to for validation,
Speaker 6: things like the level of the stock market, the wealth
Speaker 6: of the United States, the trade deficit. Those are all
Speaker 6: measuring sticks that I think Trump is going to use
Speaker 6: to measure his own performance. And we'll have to see
Speaker 6: if he can get those boosted along the lines that
Speaker 6: I know he wants to based on the policies that
Speaker 6: he said he's going to pursue, and if he can
Speaker 6: do it without breaking apart that broad coalition of both
Speaker 6: Wall Street folks and working class folks that got him
Speaker 6: elected on November.
Speaker 4: Fifth, Josh to speaking of policies, do you believe that
Speaker 4: he will actually make good based on the folks you
Speaker 4: talk to of deporting millions of people who are here
Speaker 4: illegally on day one.
Speaker 6: He's certainly shown every sign that he intends to do that,
Speaker 6: both from the people he's put in top level positions,
Speaker 6: people like Stephen Miller and Tom Holmans, that would lead
Speaker 6: that effort to some of the comments he's made more
Speaker 6: recently about being willing to deputize US law enforcement to
Speaker 6: help carry out this deportation. So, everything we've seen so
Speaker 6: far suggests that yes, Trump is very serious about that
Speaker 6: and intends to pursue it as president.
Speaker 2: Hey, just thirty seconds here to wrap up, and you've
Speaker 2: wrap up your piece. I mean, Donald Trump may also
Speaker 2: just be lucky in terms of timing right policies put
Speaker 2: in place by the Body administration. He may reap the
Speaker 2: benefits up just quickly.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean.
Speaker 6: The thing that galls so many Biden people and so
Speaker 6: many Democratic sources is look at the economy Joe Biden
Speaker 6: has bequeathed Donald Trump. Inflation coming down, the stock market
Speaker 6: is at record highs. We have all these new jobs
Speaker 6: in manufacturing factories being built all across the country with
Speaker 6: money that Biden really helped put in place. And now
Speaker 6: Donald Trump is about to take over as president and
Speaker 6: reap the political benefits and credit for all of those things.
Speaker 6: Great timing for Donald Trump, not so great timing for
Speaker 6: Joe Biden.
Speaker 3: Sowa's bat timing, isn't it all right? Josh Green? Good stuff?
Speaker 3: Thank you?
Speaker 2: Thank you, Bloomberg BusinessWeek National correspondent. Check out his story
Speaker 2: on the Bloomberg and at Bloomberg dot com slash BusinessWeek.
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Speaker 5: Robert F.
Speaker 2: Kennedy Junior's selection to service President like Donald Trump's top
Speaker 2: health official, is prompting questions from policy watchers over how
Speaker 2: the pick will handle the range of health and really
Speaker 2: key health policies that would fall under his per.
Speaker 4: He's an environmental lawyer and vocal vaccine skeptic. He's publicly
Speaker 4: taken positions against food additives and immunization recommendations, but the
Speaker 4: nominee for Secretary of the US Department of Health and
Speaker 4: Human Services has been relatively quiet on many of the
Speaker 4: other issues he would oversee while leading thirteen supporting agencies
Speaker 4: in more than eighty thousand federal employees. So let's get
Speaker 4: to the interview we got with US doctor Paul Offitt,
Speaker 4: director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital
Speaker 4: of Philadelphia, who joins us from Philadelphia.
Speaker 5: Doctor, good to have you with us.
Speaker 4: How might RFK Junior impact healthcare, food, medical research and
Speaker 4: more here in the US.
Speaker 7: He is a very long anti vaccine activist. He is
Speaker 7: a science denialist, and he is a conspiracy theorist. This
Speaker 7: is not the kind of person you want to head
Speaker 7: health agencies. I mean he has said that no vaccine
Speaker 7: is a benefit. He has said that the polio vaccine
Speaker 7: killed more people than it ever saved. He thinks that
Speaker 7: HIV human and deficiency virus is not the cause of AIDS.
Speaker 7: He's an AIGs denialist. He thinks we should drink raw milk,
Speaker 7: which will put us one once again in a position
Speaker 7: of risking things like campelo bacer and he call I
Speaker 7: in salmonella. He thinks that the SARS virus was created
Speaker 7: in the laboratory and specifically designed to spare Ashkenazi Jews
Speaker 7: in Chinese and target whites and blacks. I mean, this
Speaker 7: is the man you want to head health agencies.
Speaker 5: I don't think.
Speaker 3: So what scares you the most, Well, what scares.
Speaker 7: Me the most is is that that he now has
Speaker 7: has a bigger platform to be anti vaccine. So I
Speaker 7: mean He's always had a platform owing to the famous name,
Speaker 7: but now that he's even considered for this position gives
Speaker 7: him a certain level of credibility, which he certainly doesn't deserve.
Speaker 7: Let's suppose you have a vaccine that is submitted to
Speaker 7: the FDA for licensure, and it's it's excellent, and it's
Speaker 7: better than what we've had. I think, you know, say
Speaker 7: I'm on the FDA Vaccine Devisory Committee. Let's say that
Speaker 7: we recommend a licensure, and then the FDA considers that
Speaker 7: recommendation and degrees he could say, no, I think there
Speaker 7: needs to be more study. Similarly, he could could try
Speaker 7: and strip away the the CDC's capacity to recommend vaccines.
Speaker 7: He could take the advisory committees to both those agencies
Speaker 7: FDA and CDC and try and stock it with people
Speaker 7: who are similarly like minded science denialists, such as himself.
Speaker 7: I don't understand this. And when he talks about, for example,
Speaker 7: something that makes sense, which is trying to make our
Speaker 7: country healthier, decrease obesity, decrease type two diabetes and the
Speaker 7: consequences of those disorders such as strokes and heart attacks,
Speaker 7: I'm all for that. Great idea. But there are a
Speaker 7: lot of people out there who could do that job
Speaker 7: much better than he can given his science denialism.
Speaker 2: Doctor offittt on vaccine specifically, Robert F. Kennedy, as you know,
Speaker 2: has often been referred to as a vaccine skeptic. You
Speaker 2: call yourself a vaccine skeptic.
Speaker 3: What's the difference.
Speaker 7: A skeptic is somebody who says, prove it to me,
Speaker 7: show me you're right. So when we sit around the
Speaker 7: table at the FDA Vaccine Advisor Committee and consider vaccines,
Speaker 7: as we did for the COVID vaccines, for example, in
Speaker 7: December of twenty twenty, show us the data, prove that
Speaker 7: it's effective, prove that it's safe, so that we can
Speaker 7: then recommend it in good conscience. That's skepticisms. Skepticism is healthy.
Speaker 7: He's a cynic. He's a vaccine cynic. He doesn't believe
Speaker 7: the data. He thinks that there are dark, evil forces
Speaker 7: working behind the scenes that are misrepresenting data. What he
Speaker 7: doesn't realize is that there.
Speaker 5: Is no hiding.
Speaker 7: Even a farm pharmacytical company misrepresented data on safety or
Speaker 7: efficacy that will soon be found out because there are
Speaker 7: post marketing studies like that can be done by the
Speaker 7: Vaccine Safety Data Link, where you'll know if there's a
Speaker 7: problem immediately. There is no hiding, so his whole premise
Speaker 7: is wrong.
Speaker 4: One thing that I've been wondering is how different are
Speaker 4: we than other developed countries or other wealthy countries when
Speaker 4: it comes to vaccine schedules.
Speaker 5: Doctor?
Speaker 4: Do we do things differently than other countries around the world.
Speaker 7: We tend to recommend more vaccines than most other countries. So,
Speaker 7: for example, the chicken pox vaccine, which came onto the
Speaker 7: market in nineteen ninety five is not used in a
Speaker 7: number of developed world countries. They're willing to have children
Speaker 7: suffer tricken pox. In this country, obviously, there would be
Speaker 7: millions of cases of chicken pox a year, and there
Speaker 7: be about about seventy five two hundred people who would
Speaker 7: die off chicken pox, and there would be tens of
Speaker 7: thousands of hospitalizations. So we thought that was worth eliminating.
Speaker 7: But you know, not all countries felt the same way.
Speaker 4: Other than that, though, are there aren't big differences?
Speaker 5: No? No, For the most.
Speaker 7: Part, the developed world doesn't like children, so we would.
Speaker 4: So if you did over end up overseeing the CDC
Speaker 4: and changing the recommendations we'd be an outlier in this
Speaker 4: country based on some of the recommendtions that he could make.
Speaker 7: Right, I think his fanatical anti vaccine activismsm has already
Speaker 7: scared people. I mean, if you look, for example, over
Speaker 7: the last few years, our number of cases of measles
Speaker 7: have increased dramatically. Last year we had three thousand cases
Speaker 7: of protesterler hooping cough. This year we have seventeen thousand.
Speaker 7: We've had more than two hundred children less than eighteen
Speaker 7: years of eight dive influenza over the pasture. That's a
Speaker 7: high number. So you're already seeing an erosion in trust,
Speaker 7: already seeing an erosion in vaccine rates among kindergartens, and
Speaker 7: as a content winch, you're seeing an increase in infectious
Speaker 7: diseases that are preventable. It's unconscionable.
Speaker 3: I have to say.
Speaker 2: I have talked with colleagues and friends and associates who
Speaker 2: have autistic children now adults, and who are open to
Speaker 2: the idea that maybe vaccines cause this problem. So like
Speaker 2: there is you know, I've had these discussions. I guess
Speaker 2: what I wonder about, are we going to maybe depending
Speaker 2: on what comes out If RFK is indeed our next
Speaker 2: top health voice.
Speaker 3: Here in the administration.
Speaker 2: That will that potentially lead to maybe some kind of
Speaker 2: ruling or mandate that comes down that says we don't
Speaker 2: believe in vaccines and then are they not covered by insurance? Like,
Speaker 2: how does this potentially play out realistically?
Speaker 7: Right? So, so there's the Vaccine for Children's program which
Speaker 7: was born in the nineteen nineties and the Clinton administration
Speaker 7: which basically covers about half of the vaccines in this
Speaker 7: country for children who are either under insured or uninsured.
Speaker 7: I don't think he could touch that. I mean, that's
Speaker 7: really a congressional program. The Congress would have to agree
Speaker 7: to that.
Speaker 5: I can't imagine that happening.
Speaker 7: He could make it more difficult to get insurance generally
Speaker 7: for vaccines, making them more expensive for the consumer, that's possible.
Speaker 7: I mean, I think he'll do everything he can to
Speaker 7: lessen immunization rate.
Speaker 5: This is what he says.
Speaker 7: I think that, you know, the parents should make decisions
Speaker 7: well with their doctor and basically pull the CCC out
Speaker 7: of it. Let let us look at the real data.
Speaker 7: And he's going to show us the real data because
Speaker 7: only he knows the real data, because he's a conspiracy theorist,
Speaker 7: it's hard to watch. I do think there'll be an
Speaker 7: erosion in vaccine rates and regarding autism, it's fair to
Speaker 7: ask the question, my child was fine, they got a vaccine,
Speaker 7: Now they're not fine. Could the vaccine have done it?
Speaker 7: That's an answerable question, and it's been answered. There's been
Speaker 7: eighteen studies done in seven country on three con instead
Speaker 7: have shown vaccines don't cause autism. It's question asked unanswered.
Speaker 3: Is the medical community, you know, gearing up to fight back.
Speaker 7: Yes, but again, you know we're not good at this stuff.
Speaker 7: I mean I think, well, fight will certainly fight back
Speaker 7: the way we knew how, which is which is to
Speaker 7: try and present all the day that we know supports vaccines.
Speaker 7: But this is really becoming a political issue. So I
Speaker 7: think it's going to have to have a political solution.
Speaker 7: I think we're going to have to find those senators who,
Speaker 7: assuming there is a confirmation hearing, that are reasonable enough
Speaker 7: to say that this is not the guy you want
Speaker 7: in that position.
Speaker 4: So after RFK was announced, the Governor of Colorado, Jared Polish,
Speaker 4: sent a post on accident said he was excited because
Speaker 4: of a vaccine choice and he helped push back in
Speaker 4: Colorado when it came to this particular topic, can you
Speaker 4: share your view as to why it's important for lots
Speaker 4: of people to get vaccines, because if it is a
Speaker 4: parent's choice, and you know that parent chooses to get
Speaker 4: their kid vaccinate against something, it's not necessarily that that
Speaker 4: kid is actually protected if other kids aren't protected.
Speaker 5: Exactly right.
Speaker 7: So if you step on a rusty nail and you
Speaker 7: go to the doctor and you say I don't want
Speaker 7: a tennis vaccine and you get tetanus, no one's going
Speaker 7: to catch tennis from you. It's not a contagious disease.
Speaker 7: Measles is, influenza is, and others are. So a choice
Speaker 7: not to get a vaccine is a choice not only
Speaker 7: for yourself, but for those with whom you come in contact.
Speaker 7: And remember there are about nine million people in this country.
Speaker 7: You can't be vaccinated because they're getting chemotherapy for their
Speaker 7: cancer or immute suppressive therapy for the autoimmune diseases. They
Speaker 7: depend on those around them to protect them. Do we
Speaker 7: have any responsibility for our neighbors? It is hard to
Speaker 7: watch if you look what happened with Stars Kobe two,
Speaker 7: those counties that were generally under vaccinated had much higher
Speaker 7: rates of hospitalization and death than those counties that were
Speaker 7: highly vaccinated, and that affects the people. If you're better
Speaker 7: off actually being unvaccinated living in a highly vaccinated community
Speaker 7: than being vaccinated living in a highly unvaccinated unity.
Speaker 5: That's wild to hear.
Speaker 4: What about the power of states and local municipalities over this?
Speaker 4: For example, I have a kid in the New York
Speaker 4: City public school district and he has to get a
Speaker 4: certain number of vaccines in order to actually be able
Speaker 4: to go to school. That's a way for them to say, Okay,
Speaker 4: well we are making this choice, or for the parent
Speaker 4: to make this choice to vaccine back their kids against
Speaker 4: these things. Isn't their power there at the local level.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Well, mandates are state run. I mean, there's not
Speaker 7: federal mandates. I mean the school vaccine mandates are done
Speaker 7: by states, and different states actually have different vaccines that
Speaker 7: they mandate. But we've had school mandates from the books
Speaker 7: for decades. There was about by nineteen sixty four to five,
Speaker 7: about twenty five schools states had school mandates. By the
Speaker 7: mid seventies, that went up to forty by nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 7: all fifty states had school vaccine mandates, and with that,
Speaker 7: with the enforcement of school vaccine mandates, we went from
Speaker 7: forty seven thousand cases of measles a year, seventy five
Speaker 7: thousand cases of measles a year, one hundred and fifty
Speaker 7: deaths from measles a year, to eliminating that disease from
Speaker 7: this country by the year two thousand. But it's come
Speaker 7: back in part because the critical percentage of parents are
Speaker 7: choosing not to vaccinate their children.
Speaker 3: Yeah, numbers tell a story.
Speaker 2: Hey, listen, speaking of choice revaccination, You know, we do
Speaker 2: have choices what to eat, We have choices. McDonald's is
Speaker 2: clearly a favorite a president like Donald Trump.
Speaker 3: During the campaign.
Speaker 2: He even helps serve cuss at one restaurant. I got
Speaker 2: to say, I'm a fan of their fries.
Speaker 3: Full disclosure.
Speaker 2: We've seen Donald Trump and RFK Junior and Elon and
Speaker 2: others chowing down on McDonald's together.
Speaker 4: Oh, to be fair, rfk's holding the burger. He's not
Speaker 4: chowing yet.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, so maybe he's just holding maybe the little
Speaker 2: osmosis going on there. Just got about thirty seconds here.
Speaker 2: I do think about the role of Donald Trump, what
Speaker 2: impact he might have in terms of his thinking about
Speaker 2: health and medical care and all that good stuff. I mean,
Speaker 2: we saw what he did during his first term with
Speaker 2: COVID and getting a vaccine, So how do you think
Speaker 2: his impact might be on what goes on in this area?
Speaker 3: And again, just got about thirty seconds.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 7: I think he's hard to predict Donald Trump. But I
Speaker 7: think that scene though, with him sitting there and Elon
Speaker 7: Musk and RFK Junior and Mike Johnson and others eating
Speaker 7: eating Donald's, I think my take home from a message
Speaker 7: from that scene was Donald Trump telling Robert Kennedy Jr.
Speaker 7: You'll eat what I tell you to.
Speaker 5: I believe.
Speaker 4: Donald Trump Junior retweeted that and said the Make America
Speaker 4: Healthy Again starts tomorrow.
Speaker 2: So I gotta say I love a happy meal as well.
Speaker 2: Doctor Paul Offit, this was a treat a pleasure. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much for finding time for as doctor Paul Offfitt,
Speaker 2: director of the Vaccine Education Center the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live
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Speaker 4: Well, we talk a lot about the performance of the
Speaker 4: S and P five hundred and the Nasdaq one hundred.
Speaker 4: By the way, the S and P five hundred up
Speaker 4: more than twenty three percent so far this year, the
Speaker 4: Nasdaq one hundred up more than twenty two percent.
Speaker 5: Large caps and megacaps have done well this year. We
Speaker 5: know that small caps not so much. The RUST two.
Speaker 4: Thousand only up around fourteen percent so far this year. Well,
Speaker 4: Mike Road thinks that could be about to change. He's
Speaker 4: senior investment director at American Century Investments. They've got about
Speaker 4: and sixty billion dollars in assets under management, forty five
Speaker 4: billion of which is invested in actively managed small cap strategies.
Speaker 4: Mike joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive at Brokers Studio.
Speaker 5: Mike welcome.
Speaker 1: Thanks.
Speaker 4: Single biggest catalyst in your view in the last few
Speaker 4: weeks for small caps or right now for small caps,
Speaker 4: what is it?
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's say the Trump election for sure, and the
Speaker 8: red wave.
Speaker 3: There was an election.
Speaker 8: There was an election breaking news, I think, but that
Speaker 8: really just through fuel on the fire that had already started.
Speaker 8: Around July, you started to see a market rotation towards
Speaker 8: small caps. What you have is expected earnings growth of
Speaker 8: nearly eighteen percent next year. That's higher than midcaps, that's
Speaker 8: higher than large caps. Rather magnificent seven still growing a
Speaker 8: twenty percent plus next year, but that's slowing, whereas you
Speaker 8: have accelerating earnings for small caps, which have actually had
Speaker 8: negative earnings the last two years. So you're coming out
Speaker 8: of a small cap earnings recession and you're getting acceleration
Speaker 8: into next year, and we think that that's to be
Speaker 8: a real growth driver for the ASA class.
Speaker 2: So the expectation what that the US economy is going
Speaker 2: to do better, maybe tariffs push back on foreign imports,
Speaker 2: and so that's good for those smaller cap companies that
Speaker 2: tend to be here in the US focused on the
Speaker 2: US doing work in the US.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 8: So small caps get about eighty percent of the revenue
Speaker 8: from inside the United States. So if you're positive on
Speaker 8: the US, the best way to play that is with
Speaker 8: small caps, and restoring has been a major positive catalyst
Speaker 8: for small caps in terms of again bringing manufacturing back
Speaker 8: to the US, and with Trump getting elected and tariffs
Speaker 8: are likely kicking in. That's probably going to accelerate restoring
Speaker 8: even more, and small caps are the best way to
Speaker 8: play that.
Speaker 1: Mike.
Speaker 2: One thing I wanted to ask you since the election,
Speaker 2: what have you seen in terms of investment flows, Because
Speaker 2: if you look at the russell is up about two
Speaker 2: percent since the election, it's pretty much the same as
Speaker 2: the S and P five hundred.
Speaker 3: Where has money been going into since the outcome?
Speaker 8: Yeah, so there's been about eight billion that's flown in
Speaker 8: float into the small cap etf since November. That's pretty good,
Speaker 8: but you actually saw ten billion in July when the
Speaker 8: thought was that rates where we were starting a kind
Speaker 8: of rate cut cycle. So you still haven't seen it. Now.
Speaker 8: If you look at how large small caps are in
Speaker 8: terms of the percentage of the broader US equity market,
Speaker 8: still less than four percent. That's fifty percent below average,
Speaker 8: and the last time it was this low was the
Speaker 8: nineteen thirties. So small caps have been a forgotten asset
Speaker 8: class institutionally. And you get a lot of agreement that
Speaker 8: small caps are the place to be over the next
Speaker 8: twelve months, but you haven't yet seen the flows.
Speaker 3: I feel like we have.
Speaker 2: Been talking about everyone saying, here's the reason to buy
Speaker 2: small caps for a.
Speaker 5: Long time, say it, yeah's international.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And yet you're saying it's not like everybody's running in.
Speaker 8: Yeah, not yet. But I think that's actually, frankly a
Speaker 8: good thing. It's kind of the empty room. I think
Speaker 8: now is a good time. There's a lot of expectation
Speaker 8: out there for earnings to accelerate next year. I think
Speaker 8: you're going to have to start to see that now.
Speaker 8: I was at a regional bank conference two weeks ago,
Speaker 8: was the day after Trump got elected.
Speaker 3: Digital banks have done really much.
Speaker 8: Better recently after two years of misery. Uh, and the
Speaker 8: CEOs were literally was it literally? But like Jamie Diamond said,
Speaker 8: dancing in the streets right doing the Trump dance because
Speaker 8: they're they're most excited.
Speaker 2: About someone in the newsroom who does the Trump dance
Speaker 2: really well.
Speaker 5: But I'm not gonna try.
Speaker 3: We're going to table that.
Speaker 8: But deregulation is going to really benefit regional banks, and
Speaker 8: regional banks are also a big beneficiary of restoring right
Speaker 8: when these big new projects get started, you need to
Speaker 8: you need funding for those projects, and regional banks are
Speaker 8: really going to drive the growth in these kind of
Speaker 8: mini regional economies around the country.
Speaker 4: Like, what happens if the FED doesn't lower rates to
Speaker 4: the extent that a lot of people think, they, well,
Speaker 4: what happens if inflation doesn't come down to that two percent?
Speaker 5: Crazily?
Speaker 8: Yeah, that is that is the question I think that
Speaker 8: I think you have to ask the next question why? Okay,
Speaker 8: so why and what does the yield curve look like?
Speaker 8: So if we have growth outpacing, if growth it starts
Speaker 8: to accelerate right three percent plus next year in part
Speaker 8: due to Trump's policies, and inflation doesn't come right down
Speaker 8: to two percent, I think that's okay, that's good news
Speaker 8: is good news and growth Trump's no pun intended inflation,
Speaker 8: it's And then the second part of that is more
Speaker 8: about this shape of the yield curve. So, yes, rates
Speaker 8: not be there might not be eight rate cuts next year,
Speaker 8: But if you have a steepening yield curve, that's a
Speaker 8: really good environment for small caps. We had an inverted
Speaker 8: yield curve for two years. That's really tough for banks
Speaker 8: and for other spread type businesses. And as that yield
Speaker 8: curve reinverts, that's just a really good environment. So I'd
Speaker 8: say focus more on the shape of the yield curve
Speaker 8: as opposed to the absolute interest rate number or how
Speaker 8: many how many times the Fed will cut.
Speaker 3: So the flattening out that we've seen in the belly
Speaker 3: of the curve not great.
Speaker 5: Not great, not great.
Speaker 8: But I think if you believe that we're going to
Speaker 8: have an accelerating GDP over the next couple of years
Speaker 8: because of Trump's policy, small caps are the biggest beneficiary
Speaker 8: of that.
Speaker 2: But if we have an accelerating GDP and we have
Speaker 2: too much money back in the economy, which leads to inflation,
Speaker 2: we know from Fitcher jpow we're not quite there yet.
Speaker 2: I do think about the implications of that and the
Speaker 2: impact that they could have on small caps or other sectors.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think it comes down to that, why do
Speaker 8: we have inflation? Is there too much money flooding the systry?
Speaker 3: Do you think we have too much inflation.
Speaker 5: Right now or in the future? Yeah?
Speaker 8: Yeah, right now, I think we're still we still have
Speaker 8: that hangover from all the COVID spending going forward. If
Speaker 8: you have there could be an increase in inflation coming
Speaker 8: from the tariffs, right or the threat of tariffs, and
Speaker 8: most of these companies will probably price that through to
Speaker 8: the end consumer.
Speaker 3: Or tax breaks some have said.
Speaker 2: I mean, what's interesting is we had actually a listener,
Speaker 2: a Bloomberg terminal users say, listen, we got to push
Speaker 2: back a little bit on tariffs and the impact on inflation,
Speaker 2: because you know, maybe there have been economists and folks
Speaker 2: on our air that have also said maybe that's not
Speaker 2: the case.
Speaker 3: So we'll have to see on that one.
Speaker 2: But I do think about tax cuts creating more velocity
Speaker 2: in terms of money in the system, that could be Inflationay,
Speaker 2: we just.
Speaker 3: Heard that with our Josh Green.
Speaker 4: What about immigration policy and the labor market something I
Speaker 4: think about a lot. According to the Center for Migration Studies,
Speaker 4: there are about eleven point seven million undocumented.
Speaker 5: People here in the US.
Speaker 4: If they get deported in a very short period of time,
Speaker 4: there are gonna be a lot of people who are
Speaker 4: looking to fill jobs.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of managers looking to fill for sure.
Speaker 4: I think I'm wondering what that does to the labor market.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think the labor market is more in balance
Speaker 8: today than it was just a couple of years ago.
Speaker 8: So yeah, the immigration, that's that is a potential risk
Speaker 8: to the inflation environment. But if you're getting that inflation
Speaker 8: because the economy is growing and there's more supply chains
Speaker 8: being built out here in the US. I think that's
Speaker 8: a good thing if you get it in the fundamentals
Speaker 8: of these small cap companies. If you're getting that ten percent,
Speaker 8: fifteen twenty percent earnings growth, and all research shows that
Speaker 8: dollars follows earnings growth, and I think that's going to
Speaker 8: be viewed as a positive thing.
Speaker 2: Although voters have said they don't like inflation, and that
Speaker 2: was a clear mandate. Hey, listen before you go, got
Speaker 2: about a minute left here, Let's talk groups.
Speaker 3: What do you like in this environment? Which you like?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 8: I think banks mentioned it's uh, regionals. Yeah, they've had
Speaker 8: they've had a bit of a run since Trump was elected,
Speaker 8: but they're still trading at a discount to where they
Speaker 8: were when Trump was in the office the first time.
Speaker 8: And I think the sentiment is so negative. You have
Speaker 8: commercial real estate fears which are unfounded so far, credit
Speaker 8: cycle unfounded so far. They're kicking off pretty good dividends,
Speaker 8: and they're under owned by most institutional investors. So I
Speaker 8: think there's still room to run in regionals.
Speaker 5: What about when it comes to some of the retailers
Speaker 5: out there. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's the reporting this week.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, you know, if you look at the consumer,
Speaker 8: I think we like to say it's trifurcated right that
Speaker 8: the high end consumer is still doing really well. Low
Speaker 8: in consumer if you look at the dollar stores, pretty tough.
Speaker 8: But we believe that there's some areas that are bouncing
Speaker 8: off of the bottom. So if you look at boats,
Speaker 8: boats have fallen off a cliff. They're down fifty percent.
Speaker 8: But we think there's a bottoming and we think we're
Speaker 8: going to see improving numbers going forward. So it's all
Speaker 8: about that acceleration. So we're getting that off of the bottom. Boats,
Speaker 8: r v's potentially housing, We'll have to see what happens
Speaker 8: with housing. That would be a good catalyst for small
Speaker 8: caps very quickly.
Speaker 2: Energy you like it. If there's more drilling, there's more pumping,
Speaker 2: more supply. Won't that be hurt?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Does that hurt the group just quickly?
Speaker 8: No, it's and it goes back to that really to GDP,
Speaker 8: if you have an acceleration in demand, it should offset that.
Speaker 8: The other biggest Yeah, yeah, well, I think the biggest
Speaker 8: thing that we look at is the quality levels at
Speaker 8: these E n p's and the small cap side, they're
Speaker 8: they're much more better run than they were five or
Speaker 8: ten years ago.
Speaker 3: Micro good stuff come back soon. This is this is
Speaker 3: Bloomberg Business Week, mark.
Speaker 5: A journal.
Speaker 2: Now about you let me drive?
Speaker 1: No, no, honey, please, I'll.
Speaker 2: I want to drive. It's a good question time.
Speaker 1: This is the drive to the globe communing well, lad
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: All right, TikTok, everybody, Just about eighteen minutes left in
Speaker 2: today's trading session here on this Monday, we've got like
Speaker 2: games as you just heard from Charlie and the S
Speaker 2: and P five hundred outperformance in the Nasdaq one hundred
Speaker 2: up about one hundred and forty five points, good for
Speaker 2: gain of seven.
Speaker 3: Tens a percent. Wasn't so great for stocks last week.
Speaker 2: But again, earnings are going to be front and center
Speaker 2: with Nvidian, a few others reporting us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're gonna hear from the retailers, many of the retailers,
Speaker 4: so we've got a good read on the consumer. Let's
Speaker 4: see what Jeff McLain has to say about this. He's
Speaker 4: a ceover at Solidarity Wealth. It's a wealth management firm
Speaker 4: based in Utah. They've got about six hundred million dollars
Speaker 4: in assets under management. Jeff joined us here in the
Speaker 4: Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. I'm wondering what's top of mind
Speaker 4: for your clients right now when you're out there talking
Speaker 4: to them.
Speaker 5: What are they asking you? What do they want to know?
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think a lot of it is election related.
Speaker 9: I mean, what does the next four years look like
Speaker 9: in the excitement or nervousness depending on the political backgrounds
Speaker 9: of where they're looking at the markets From our perspective,
Speaker 9: I mean, I think in either case, you were going
Speaker 9: to have some consistency of the current administration continuing on
Speaker 9: or Trump. We've we've kind of seen the show before.
Speaker 9: It'll be different people involved, but we kind of know
Speaker 9: what's coming, and you're seeing that a little bit in
Speaker 9: the market of a bit of steadiness associated with it.
Speaker 9: You're essentially going to have divided government with the house
Speaker 9: being so tight, it'll be incredibly tight if anything in
Speaker 9: the house. You think so, Yeah, I think as you
Speaker 9: talk about the people he's named, they're going to have
Speaker 9: to give up their spots in the house.
Speaker 5: You have a few lives.
Speaker 2: I wonder if there's somebody with a whiteboard said hey, wait,
Speaker 2: his name is Speaker Johnson.
Speaker 9: Yeah, and I don't think they're being that strategic and
Speaker 9: so divided government's good for the markets, right, nothing's crazy
Speaker 9: going to happen.
Speaker 4: I would think they are being strategic because they want to,
Speaker 4: you know, and that's stuff done. Jusie Wilds, the incoming
Speaker 4: chief of Staff, made the point at a fundraiser last
Speaker 4: week in Las Vegas that was basically like this, according
Speaker 4: to New York Times, that hey, we got two years
Speaker 4: to get everything done because the history, you know, books
Speaker 4: show that if you have a trifecta in government, it's
Speaker 4: not forever.
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's true. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 9: special elections that are going to have to come up
Speaker 9: to replace those seats. Republicans do terrible in special elections historically,
Speaker 9: and so I think at the end of the day
Speaker 9: the House will be divided, which again I think is good.
Speaker 9: Nothing crazy can happen if you start with a proposition
Speaker 9: like I do, that most government officials are not great
Speaker 9: people and they're going to trade in their own self interest.
Speaker 9: Divide is great.
Speaker 5: They can't do anything. There's a lot of places I
Speaker 5: could go with that, because.
Speaker 4: Where do you want to go, well, is that a
Speaker 4: concern to you in terms of the way that the
Speaker 4: government has been run in the way that the government
Speaker 4: potentially will be run in the new administration. There are
Speaker 4: a lot of folks very close to the president who
Speaker 4: have a lot of money.
Speaker 9: Yeah, and I would say that's always true, right, Whenever
Speaker 9: there's power, money is attracted to it, and so that's
Speaker 9: always been the case. I think long term is that
Speaker 9: a problem?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 9: Short term, no, I don't see any issues there. I
Speaker 9: do think some of the changes they're going to make
Speaker 9: do help certain sectors over others. Right. RFK Junior Pharma
Speaker 9: has obviously traded down since that name was nominated to
Speaker 9: the position.
Speaker 5: That's probably justified. We'll see if he gets confirmed.
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's a big if.
Speaker 2: All right, So the week after the election, I'm going
Speaker 2: back to not last week. Last week's stocks were down
Speaker 2: about two percent. If I'm looking at the S and
Speaker 2: P five found to the prior week, they're up about
Speaker 2: four point seven percent. So we've seen a little bit
Speaker 2: of a correct but not all the way back. I mean,
Speaker 2: are what we're seeing right now is all right, some enthusiasm,
Speaker 2: but we don't really know what policies are ultimately going
Speaker 2: to be put into effect. So hold on, everybody, kind
Speaker 2: of slow your role and let's see. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 2: long h Is there anything that you feel like you
Speaker 2: can bank on right now in terms of a Trump
Speaker 2: administration what it means for playing the equity term?
Speaker 9: Yeah, from a long term perspective, all that right now
Speaker 9: is noise. From a short term trading perspective, volatility is
Speaker 9: going to continue spike with every new announcement, depending on
Speaker 9: because he's not going to nominate an you know, steady,
Speaker 9: keep it as it is type person. He's just not
Speaker 9: And so every new announcement's going to drive volatility and.
Speaker 3: A specifically it kind of did in the first term.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it did, but.
Speaker 9: You're going to see that with the Treasury whoever he
Speaker 9: names in the cat fighting that's involved right now, whoever
Speaker 9: he names, you're going to see some trades based on
Speaker 9: whoever that is, depending on if it's someone from a
Speaker 9: traditional finance background or is it someone outside right an
Speaker 9: unknown to the financial world.
Speaker 2: I got to say these conversations. I like macro, but
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, so what do we do? Yeah, because
Speaker 2: if you've got a portfolio you're thinking about it. I
Speaker 2: think about investments.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what do I do do?
Speaker 2: I like, you know, things have had a nice little
Speaker 2: run this year, but is it going to get a
Speaker 2: little sketchy next year?
Speaker 3: We just don't know. So what do you say? You are,
Speaker 3: you know, responsible for managing the wealth of your clients.
Speaker 3: What do you do right now?
Speaker 2: Have you made any changes to portfolios since the election outcome?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 9: Yes?
Speaker 3: What have what have you done?
Speaker 9: And so you know, I think part of that is
Speaker 9: trimming allocations in certain segments and areas that aren't going
Speaker 9: to do well. So, generally speaking, defense could be a problem. If,
Speaker 9: for example, you own Lockheed Martin, right, they are going
Speaker 9: to be a target of what the VEC and Elon
Speaker 9: Musk are doing. They're no bid contracts, probably not going
Speaker 9: to be looking good here in the next couple months.
Speaker 9: If Elon Musk and his team are successful. Another group
Speaker 9: that could be.
Speaker 2: Until senators and members of Congress and House reps saying.
Speaker 5: By the way, our constituents are pretty upset about this.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, there is part of that. But remember, from
Speaker 9: an administrative law perspective, presidencies have enormous power to do
Speaker 9: things independent of Congress. And both administrations, and so they
Speaker 9: can drive significant change just changing the no bid contract
Speaker 9: thing alone to ban any no bid contract. That's a problem.
Speaker 3: What does that mean? So nobody can bid?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 9: So they directed directly to Lockheed Martin. If you win
Speaker 9: this contract and it's not an open process for that
Speaker 9: government contract, which are billions and billions.
Speaker 3: Of dollars, you've seen opposite of what it's You've.
Speaker 9: Seen Elon Musk fight this from his side of saying, hey,
Speaker 9: we can do these things. We're doing the way cheaper
Speaker 9: than NASA and all these other things. But yet NASA
Speaker 9: is getting these or Boeing is getting these gigantic contracts
Speaker 9: and are not performing.
Speaker 3: So tripping defense, what else have you been doing for
Speaker 3: your clients?
Speaker 9: I think Boeing's and although I agree with their CEO change,
Speaker 9: I think that's a good move. I think long term
Speaker 9: Boeing could be good. From a short term perspective, Boeing's
Speaker 9: problematic for a variety of reasons. That has been and
Speaker 9: I would argue it's going to continue to be problematic
Speaker 9: from a go forward. I think there's also some trading
Speaker 9: opportunities and what I would call the anti ESG trade,
Speaker 9: Those kind of industries that aren't favored in the EESG
Speaker 9: where that's at times defense like pell and Teer, which
Speaker 9: will probably be a winner from this administration. Oil and gas,
Speaker 9: although not broadly like your Exon or Chevron, But think
Speaker 9: of the pipeline type of producer and those actually pulling
Speaker 9: the minerals out of the ground.
Speaker 5: Even if we see a decline in demand.
Speaker 9: Or yeah, I think from a long term they have
Speaker 9: some great opportunities because you're more likely to find value
Speaker 9: there because the huge part of return is what you're
Speaker 9: buying it for. Because of the disfavored nature of those industries,
Speaker 9: you can get better valuations than the broader market, and
Speaker 9: so over time that's going to play out. Even if
Speaker 9: some people want to hold their nose at it, we
Speaker 9: still need oil, it funds just about everything in our society.
Speaker 2: You're the second person today that is looking at small caps.
Speaker 2: Forgive me only about twenty five seconds. You like small caps,
Speaker 2: put money there, or you are putting money there.
Speaker 9: We are, and I like it from a go forward perspective.
Speaker 9: You have to be careful, right, not all small caps
Speaker 9: are created equal, but yeah, small caps can be an
Speaker 9: incredible opportunity right now based on valuation simply compared to
Speaker 9: large caps.
Speaker 3: All right, we gotta leave it there. Of course we
Speaker 3: had more time. Good stuff, come back. Thank you really appreciate.
Speaker 2: Jeff McLain's chief executive officer at Solidary Wealth.
Speaker 3: As we said, they're based in Utah.
Speaker 9: Yes, right now, all right, ski season is here, come
Speaker 9: to Utah, skier.
Speaker 3: Have you ever ski in Utah?
Speaker 5: Of course, of course he has a crazy flight.
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