WEBVTT - Trump’s Impossible Task 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:10.719 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.960 Wait inside from the reporters and editors who bring you 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:18.360 America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:22.680 tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.800 and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:28.520 Now, would you want to get to one thing that 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.000 is certainly toplined for world leaders at G twenty and elsewhere? 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:35.519 Dj T Donald J. Trump's administration and. 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.480 Cabinet picks chief among them, who will take the job 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:39.800 of US Treasury Secretary. 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:41.760 Yeah, it's kind of turning into this game of thrones, 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:43.559 and that's where we go now to jockeying around the 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:47.040 selection for the nation's next treasury secretary. Bloomberg business Week 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:49.839 national correspondent Josh Green joins us on that and on 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:53.560 his BusinessWeek story on the President Elect's impossible task. Josh 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.120 is the author of Devils Bargain, Steve Bannon, Donald Trump 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:00.560 and the Nationalists Uprising and the Rebels, Elizabeth Warrenney Sanders, 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:04.440 Alexandria Kasia Cortez and the Struggle Free New American Politics. 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:06.440 All right, Josh, great to have you here. Josh joining 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.760 us from our Bloomberg Washington DC bureau. Hey, Josh, first step, 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:11.440 I want to ask you about the pick for Treasury 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:15.080 secretary or the process in the behind the scenes, a 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.080 super important job. Wall Street is watching, the world is watching. 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:20.119 What are you hearing about this process? 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.120 Yeah? Oh, I put process in quotes. 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:25.280 First of all, I mean it's turned out into like 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.679 an absolute blood bath, with competing candidates stabbing each other 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:32.200 in the back. And what you have now is a 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:36.120 list of people who are under consideration. Howard Lutnick, Scott Bessant, 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.920 Robert Leitthheiser, the former trade representative. None of them has 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.440 been named. There's a lot of jockey going on behind 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.160 the scenes. Trump himself doesn't seem to be happy with 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:47.680 any of the candidates, and as we report in Bloomberg, 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:50.880 he's very unhappy that these fights have spilled out into 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:54.080 public view. So the latest we're hearing is that Trump 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:57.800 is sort of casting about for somebody who would fill 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.440 what he thinks is the role of Treasury attacker, meaning 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:04.040 somebody big, powerful, respected by Wall Street. Some of the 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:07.360 names we're hearing and have reported Mark Rowan of Apollo, 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:11.480 Kevin Walsh, the former Fed governor. There are other dark 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:13.960 horse names floating around, but right now everybody in Washington's 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.320 trying to figure out, you know, where where the musical 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:18.320 chairs will stop and who will wind up in that 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:19.400 very important position. 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:21.480 Is it hard to find somebody who's respected by Wall 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:23.799 Street but also believes what Donald Trump believes when it 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:25.800 comes to tariff's Josh, yeah, I. 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.360 Think that's exactly the tension is. You can Trump can 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.480 certainly find someone like a Lighthiveser who really believes in 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.800 the use of tariffs. But as a number of sources 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.840 told us, wall Street would would would panic if somebody 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.440 who was seen as too extreme on tariffs gets in there. 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.240 On the other hand, you have guys with stirling reputations 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.079 who would be embraced I think by wall Street both 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.160 a warsh or a best and somebody like that who 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:51.160 may not be as willing to come out and embrace, 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:56.440 embrace a steep tariff regime of the type that Trumps 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.720 has bandied about, knowing that the damage that that could 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:03.120 potentally caused to markets if they were implemented, you know, 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.360 and disrupted a lot of things in the global markets. 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.280 So it's tough to find just the right candidate who 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.720 has both the stature, the wealth, the name that Trump wants, 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.160 and also the willingness to do Trump's bidding. 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:17.480 Hey, Josh, we have not had a chance to talk 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.079 to you about the election outcome. You really wrote the 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:23.520 book An Understanding Donald Trump's first run at the White 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.600 House and his win that time around. What do you 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:30.800 make of him running a winning excuse me, a second term? 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:31.720 Well? 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:33.239 Yeah, I think it was a surprise to a lot 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:34.840 of people, but in a lot of ways, it's a 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.040 much more impressive victory than his win in twenty sixteen, 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:40.440 which took a lot of people by surprise. He did 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.840 not win a majority of the popular vote that time. 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.560 Looks almost certain that he will this time. And I 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.119 think what's most important is the coalition that Trump put 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:52.240 together and winning the twenty twenty four election. There were 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:56.080 both the kind of high wattage billionaire supporters, people like 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.560 Howard lutt Nick and Elon Musk, But on the other hand, 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:03.119 Trump cobbled together a really racially diverse, working class coalition 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.440 that we hadn't seen the last time around. A lot 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:09.680 of voters that traditionally vote Democrat were persuaded to come 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.120 over and vote for Trump, and as a result, he 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.040 has a really big coalition. As I write about in 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.560 the new issue of BusinessWeek, Trump has pursued this kind 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:20.800 of what I call plutocratic populism, and I think the 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.640 main tension in his second presidency is going to be 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.359 how to balance the interests of working class people with 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.720 the interests of the billionaire and Wall Street crowd, who 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:31.159 are another important coalition form. 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:33.080 So let's talk a little bit about that, Josh. Because 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:35.440 you came with receipts, you have the numbers here. Why 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.200 is that an impossible task? Why is he unable to 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:40.280 do that and make good on really every promise that 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:41.400 he made on the campaign trail. 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:44.400 Well, if you look at exit poll numbers and just 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.719 in my own interviews with undecided voters and people were 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.000 Trump supporters, a lot of what drove Trump's support was 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:55.359 voter anger, especially working class voter anger over inflation high prices, 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.360 for which they blamed Kamala Harris personally. They didn't want 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:01.839 her back in that y. They remember the Trump era, 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:08.160 rightly or wrongly, as a time of lower prices, lower inflation, 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:11.599 strong paychecks for everybody, and so they voted for Trump 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.159 in the hopes that he would bring that back. But 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.720 if you look at what some of Trump is planning 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:18.760 to do, you know, the first item on his agenda 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:22.000 looks to be extending his twenty seventeen tax cuts and 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.919 maybe even cutting corporate taxes deeper than he did the 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.320 first time around, which would be very exciting to his 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:32.719 Wall Street contingent, to his billionaire contingent. But it could 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:37.800 certainly help exacerbate inflation, as could a steep. 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:38.320 Round of tariff. 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.560 So on the one hand, you know, you could satisfy 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.480 one half of the coalition, But if the cost of 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:47.320 that was for prices, inflation, and interest rates to rise again, 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:49.640 then a lot of the same working class voters who 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:53.160 supported him two weeks ago could potentially turn on him 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.960 and Republicans in the midterm elections and handpower back to 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:56.640 the Democrats. 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.400 Hey, how much do you think, though Donald J. Trump 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:01.760 thinks about the midterms at this point? All right? 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.000 I mean essentially, right, this is his second term, he's 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:06.080 a lame duck president. 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:08.120 He can do a lot of stuff, and he's got 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:11.159 a Congress, But how much do you think he thinks 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:14.600 about what happens at midterms versus following through on his mandate? 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:16.360 It's a great question, Carrol. 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.000 It's one I've asked to some people around him, and 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:21.280 the truthful answer I got is he doesn't really care 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:24.080 at all. What he cares about is this approval rating. 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:27.160 He'd like to have a booming stock market the way 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.919 he did in his first term, and so part of 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.479 the thinking in Trump world is that even if he 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.599 did promote someone a Treasury secretary who got behind this 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:39.560 tariff regime and things went badly in the economy, if 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:43.000 the market were to fall, that might be a kind 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.040 of disciplining mechanism for Trump to step back a little bit, 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.240 because he really does view the stock market, the S 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.359 and P as a kind of verdict on the success 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.920 or failure of his presidency. But certainly, thinking about the 0:06:55.920 --> 0:07:00.440 fortunes of congressional Republicans in twenty twenty six probably not 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:02.440 top of mind for Donald Trump right now. 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:04.400 That's interesting to hear. Why do you think that is? 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:08.320 Because it sort of does provide, to a certain extent, 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.840 a check on what he's able to do, Because if 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.320 he puts policies into place that are unpopular among his base, 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:16.880 then he could really pay a price in the midterms. 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:18.520 Yeah, he could. 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:20.280 I mean, I've gotten a couple answers from that in 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.080 my reporting. One is that Trump simply does not believe 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.840 what most mainstream economists believe, and that is that tariffs 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.480 are inflationary and the cost will be passed along to 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.640 consumers in the form of higher prices. I and my 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:33.840 Business We colleagues got to ask Trump about that for 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.840 a Business We Cover story cover interview we did with 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.720 Donald Trump back in July at mar A Lago, and 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.600 he simply disagrees. He said, well, if tariffs were inflationary, 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.760 we would have had inflation during my first presidency when 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.640 I imposed rounds of tariffs, and we didn't, and therefore 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:51.240 it's not going. 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:52.080 To be a problem. 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:56.040 A lot of people around Trump publicly surrogates, have taken 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:59.320 to echoing those points. So, as one of my sources 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.600 pointed out to me in my current Business Week story, 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:05.440 Trump doesn't believe that tariffs are inflationary. Therefore he's not 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.000 going to believe it until they're implemented and until we 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.560 see inflation. So to me, that suggests that we may 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.840 be in for a rocky ride financially economically over the 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:17.000 next four years if Trump is able to go ahead 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.480 and do what he says he's going to do. And 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.160 there are fewer guardrails and fewer breaks with Republicans controlling 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:26.120 all three branches of Congress now than there were last 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.120 time around. So I think I think his theories on 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.480 tariffs and everything else make it a real test run. 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:36.560 I also do wonder, Josh, do you think Donald Trump 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:40.720 thinks about his legacy? You know two assassination tempts, you know, 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:44.480 one that we you know, obviously more serious it seems, 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:46.839 in certainly than the other one. But I do wonder 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.280 if he's an older man, right, we all get older, 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.320 we start to think about kind of our life's impact. 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.240 Is this your understanding of him? 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:56.520 You think he's thinking about that? 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.200 In this second, I'll say this, I'll say that you know, 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:01.960 he and I have I've never had that discussion. But 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.520 from everything I've seen from him, from everything I've heard 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.800 from people around him, Trump tends to live in the 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:11.920 here and now. I mean he is responsive to the 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:15.200 cable chirons that he sees on TV. He's responsive to 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.120 the closing price in the stock market. He's responsive to, 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.000 you know, whether or not the Justice Department is going 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:23.560 to convict him and send him to jail. Which it 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.480 doesn't look what they are now, not so much thinking 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:29.760 about how his obituary will look in the New York Times. 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:32.680 But that being said, look, all presidents like to succeed. 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:35.880 I'm sure Trump would like high approval numbers and a 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.760 lot of the signifiers that Trump looks to for validation, 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:42.200 things like the level of the stock market, the wealth 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.920 of the United States, the trade deficit. Those are all 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.040 measuring sticks that I think Trump is going to use 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.960 to measure his own performance. And we'll have to see 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.680 if he can get those boosted along the lines that 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.760 I know he wants to based on the policies that 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:57.839 he said he's going to pursue, and if he can 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:02.000 do it without breaking apart that broad coalition of both 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.760 Wall Street folks and working class folks that got him 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:05.880 elected on November. 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.640 Fifth, Josh to speaking of policies, do you believe that 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:10.760 he will actually make good based on the folks you 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.360 talk to of deporting millions of people who are here 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:14.600 illegally on day one. 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.880 He's certainly shown every sign that he intends to do that, 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:22.440 both from the people he's put in top level positions, 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.320 people like Stephen Miller and Tom Holmans, that would lead 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:27.160 that effort to some of the comments he's made more 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.920 recently about being willing to deputize US law enforcement to 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:35.360 help carry out this deportation. So, everything we've seen so 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.800 far suggests that yes, Trump is very serious about that 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:39.400 and intends to pursue it as president. 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.400 Hey, just thirty seconds here to wrap up, and you've 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.439 wrap up your piece. I mean, Donald Trump may also 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:47.880 just be lucky in terms of timing right policies put 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.520 in place by the Body administration. He may reap the 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:51.680 benefits up just quickly. 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:52.840 Yeah. I mean. 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:55.199 The thing that galls so many Biden people and so 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:58.480 many Democratic sources is look at the economy Joe Biden 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.960 has bequeathed Donald Trump. Inflation coming down, the stock market 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.680 is at record highs. We have all these new jobs 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:08.040 in manufacturing factories being built all across the country with 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:10.880 money that Biden really helped put in place. And now 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.880 Donald Trump is about to take over as president and 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:17.840 reap the political benefits and credit for all of those things. 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:21.559 Great timing for Donald Trump, not so great timing for 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:22.079 Joe Biden. 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.320 Sowa's bat timing, isn't it all right? Josh Green? Good stuff? 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:25.680 Thank you? 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:29.240 Thank you, Bloomberg BusinessWeek National correspondent. Check out his story 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:31.760 on the Bloomberg and at Bloomberg dot com slash BusinessWeek. 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.480 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch US 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.760 Live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:41.959 on Apple card Play and then brought auto with a 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:45.000 Bloomberg Business app, or watch US Live on YouTube. 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:47.319 Robert F. 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.719 Kennedy Junior's selection to service President like Donald Trump's top 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:54.520 health official, is prompting questions from policy watchers over how 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.280 the pick will handle the range of health and really 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.000 key health policies that would fall under his per. 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.480 He's an environmental lawyer and vocal vaccine skeptic. He's publicly 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:07.280 taken positions against food additives and immunization recommendations, but the 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.480 nominee for Secretary of the US Department of Health and 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:12.240 Human Services has been relatively quiet on many of the 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.920 other issues he would oversee while leading thirteen supporting agencies 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.800 in more than eighty thousand federal employees. So let's get 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.079 to the interview we got with US doctor Paul Offitt, 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.760 director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:26.679 of Philadelphia, who joins us from Philadelphia. 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:28.560 Doctor, good to have you with us. 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.280 How might RFK Junior impact healthcare, food, medical research and 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:33.640 more here in the US. 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:38.040 He is a very long anti vaccine activist. He is 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.040 a science denialist, and he is a conspiracy theorist. This 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.079 is not the kind of person you want to head 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.760 health agencies. I mean he has said that no vaccine 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.559 is a benefit. He has said that the polio vaccine 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.960 killed more people than it ever saved. He thinks that 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:55.520 HIV human and deficiency virus is not the cause of AIDS. 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.040 He's an AIGs denialist. He thinks we should drink raw milk, 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.079 which will put us one once again in a position 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.440 of risking things like campelo bacer and he call I 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.400 in salmonella. He thinks that the SARS virus was created 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:12.640 in the laboratory and specifically designed to spare Ashkenazi Jews 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.400 in Chinese and target whites and blacks. I mean, this 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:17.559 is the man you want to head health agencies. 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:18.520 I don't think. 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.760 So what scares you the most, Well, what scares. 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:24.840 Me the most is is that that he now has 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:29.080 has a bigger platform to be anti vaccine. So I 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.600 mean He's always had a platform owing to the famous name, 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.480 but now that he's even considered for this position gives 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.480 him a certain level of credibility, which he certainly doesn't deserve. 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:41.040 Let's suppose you have a vaccine that is submitted to 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.320 the FDA for licensure, and it's it's excellent, and it's 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:46.959 better than what we've had. I think, you know, say 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.360 I'm on the FDA Vaccine Devisory Committee. Let's say that 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.440 we recommend a licensure, and then the FDA considers that 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.520 recommendation and degrees he could say, no, I think there 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.280 needs to be more study. Similarly, he could could try 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:02.880 and strip away the the CDC's capacity to recommend vaccines. 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.640 He could take the advisory committees to both those agencies 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.280 FDA and CDC and try and stock it with people 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.240 who are similarly like minded science denialists, such as himself. 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.400 I don't understand this. And when he talks about, for example, 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:17.800 something that makes sense, which is trying to make our 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.680 country healthier, decrease obesity, decrease type two diabetes and the 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.960 consequences of those disorders such as strokes and heart attacks, 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.400 I'm all for that. Great idea. But there are a 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:29.600 lot of people out there who could do that job 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.320 much better than he can given his science denialism. 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:35.640 Doctor offittt on vaccine specifically, Robert F. Kennedy, as you know, 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.720 has often been referred to as a vaccine skeptic. You 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:40.440 call yourself a vaccine skeptic. 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:41.240 What's the difference. 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.240 A skeptic is somebody who says, prove it to me, 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.080 show me you're right. So when we sit around the 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.920 table at the FDA Vaccine Advisor Committee and consider vaccines, 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:52.920 as we did for the COVID vaccines, for example, in 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.960 December of twenty twenty, show us the data, prove that 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.360 it's effective, prove that it's safe, so that we can 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:02.200 then recommend it in good conscience. That's skepticisms. Skepticism is healthy. 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.280 He's a cynic. He's a vaccine cynic. He doesn't believe 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.960 the data. He thinks that there are dark, evil forces 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.920 working behind the scenes that are misrepresenting data. What he 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:13.680 doesn't realize is that there. 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:14.320 Is no hiding. 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:17.840 Even a farm pharmacytical company misrepresented data on safety or 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.680 efficacy that will soon be found out because there are 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.120 post marketing studies like that can be done by the 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.640 Vaccine Safety Data Link, where you'll know if there's a 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:29.000 problem immediately. There is no hiding, so his whole premise 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:29.480 is wrong. 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.760 One thing that I've been wondering is how different are 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:36.040 we than other developed countries or other wealthy countries when 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:37.960 it comes to vaccine schedules. 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:38.360 Doctor? 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.520 Do we do things differently than other countries around the world. 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:47.080 We tend to recommend more vaccines than most other countries. So, 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.640 for example, the chicken pox vaccine, which came onto the 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.160 market in nineteen ninety five is not used in a 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:55.120 number of developed world countries. They're willing to have children 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.200 suffer tricken pox. In this country, obviously, there would be 0:15:58.240 --> 0:15:59.960 millions of cases of chicken pox a year, and there 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:04.520 be about about seventy five two hundred people who would 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:06.080 die off chicken pox, and there would be tens of 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:10.280 thousands of hospitalizations. So we thought that was worth eliminating. 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.920 But you know, not all countries felt the same way. 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.840 Other than that, though, are there aren't big differences? 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:17.920 No? No, For the most. 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.640 Part, the developed world doesn't like children, so we would. 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.280 So if you did over end up overseeing the CDC 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:25.640 and changing the recommendations we'd be an outlier in this 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.960 country based on some of the recommendtions that he could make. 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:36.000 Right, I think his fanatical anti vaccine activismsm has already 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.920 scared people. I mean, if you look, for example, over 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.680 the last few years, our number of cases of measles 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:44.960 have increased dramatically. Last year we had three thousand cases 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.680 of protesterler hooping cough. This year we have seventeen thousand. 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.640 We've had more than two hundred children less than eighteen 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:53.320 years of eight dive influenza over the pasture. That's a 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.160 high number. So you're already seeing an erosion in trust, 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.440 already seeing an erosion in vaccine rates among kindergartens, and 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:01.880 as a content winch, you're seeing an increase in infectious 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.200 diseases that are preventable. It's unconscionable. 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:06.160 I have to say. 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.640 I have talked with colleagues and friends and associates who 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:14.720 have autistic children now adults, and who are open to 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.639 the idea that maybe vaccines cause this problem. So like 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:21.560 there is you know, I've had these discussions. I guess 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.240 what I wonder about, are we going to maybe depending 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:28.280 on what comes out If RFK is indeed our next 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:29.920 top health voice. 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:30.840 Here in the administration. 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.800 That will that potentially lead to maybe some kind of 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.160 ruling or mandate that comes down that says we don't 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.000 believe in vaccines and then are they not covered by insurance? Like, 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.760 how does this potentially play out realistically? 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.280 Right? So, so there's the Vaccine for Children's program which 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:48.680 was born in the nineteen nineties and the Clinton administration 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.320 which basically covers about half of the vaccines in this 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.440 country for children who are either under insured or uninsured. 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:56.240 I don't think he could touch that. I mean, that's 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.760 really a congressional program. The Congress would have to agree 0:17:58.800 --> 0:17:58.920 to that. 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:00.000 I can't imagine that happening. 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.120 He could make it more difficult to get insurance generally 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:07.120 for vaccines, making them more expensive for the consumer, that's possible. 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.359 I mean, I think he'll do everything he can to 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:10.399 lessen immunization rate. 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:11.439 This is what he says. 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.040 I think that, you know, the parents should make decisions 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.600 well with their doctor and basically pull the CCC out 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:19.640 of it. Let let us look at the real data. 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:21.399 And he's going to show us the real data because 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:24.600 only he knows the real data, because he's a conspiracy theorist, 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.639 it's hard to watch. I do think there'll be an 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.840 erosion in vaccine rates and regarding autism, it's fair to 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.480 ask the question, my child was fine, they got a vaccine, 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:35.960 Now they're not fine. Could the vaccine have done it? 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.560 That's an answerable question, and it's been answered. There's been 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:42.159 eighteen studies done in seven country on three con instead 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:46.440 have shown vaccines don't cause autism. It's question asked unanswered. 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.720 Is the medical community, you know, gearing up to fight back. 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.919 Yes, but again, you know we're not good at this stuff. 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.000 I mean I think, well, fight will certainly fight back 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:58.680 the way we knew how, which is which is to 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.639 try and present all the day that we know supports vaccines. 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:05.159 But this is really becoming a political issue. So I 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.119 think it's going to have to have a political solution. 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:10.359 I think we're going to have to find those senators who, 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:13.600 assuming there is a confirmation hearing, that are reasonable enough 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:15.200 to say that this is not the guy you want 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:15.880