1 00:00:00,090 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Fellow Ridiculous historians, as we're wrapping up this week of 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: celebratory classics for Labor Day, we've got to tell you, 3 00:00:08,220 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: there is a story we ran into in our sister show, 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,870 Speaker 1: Stuff They Don't Want You to Know, about cyber cockroaches. 5 00:00:16,150 --> 00:00:20,209 Speaker 1: Remember that one? Yeah. It was odd, right? 6 00:00:20,250 --> 00:00:25,579 Speaker 2: They were technically designed to be deployed to find survivors 7 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 2: amidst rubble. But then there was talk of them being 8 00:00:28,700 --> 00:00:30,900 Speaker 2: able to also inject people with things. 9 00:00:31,020 --> 00:00:32,420 Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. 10 00:00:32,470 --> 00:00:33,990 Speaker 2: That one threw me a little bit. It seemed like 11 00:00:34,409 --> 00:00:36,630 Speaker 2: those features exist at cross purposes. 12 00:00:37,229 --> 00:00:40,290 Speaker 1: They were also pretty vague about what could be injected. 13 00:00:40,370 --> 00:00:43,790 Speaker 1: They just kept using the word injectables. Injectables. 14 00:00:44,130 --> 00:00:44,430 Speaker 2: Yeah. 15 00:00:44,490 --> 00:00:49,029 Speaker 1: Which is not very reassuring. You're talking about train spotting here? Exactly. We, 16 00:00:49,570 --> 00:00:53,250 Speaker 1: we were, we were, Both startled, I think, in a 17 00:00:53,310 --> 00:00:56,490 Speaker 1: bit of synchronicity to learn that after we had reported 18 00:00:56,550 --> 00:01:02,300 Speaker 1: the latest news on cyber cockroaches, this story from 2019 19 00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: popped up on our radar. Folks, it turns out that 20 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: multiple governments have been trying to turn insects into soldiers 21 00:01:11,060 --> 00:01:15,300 Speaker 1: for like decades. And why not, Ben? That's what I say. 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:16,580 Speaker 1: Why not? 23 00:01:17,170 --> 00:01:18,630 Speaker 2: We are on a bit of a run with a 24 00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:22,190 Speaker 2: little break in between for Yasuke of odd soldiers. I 25 00:01:22,230 --> 00:01:25,470 Speaker 2: suppose in feudal Japan, Yasuke would have been considered an 26 00:01:25,590 --> 00:01:26,190 Speaker 2: odd soldier. 27 00:01:26,860 --> 00:01:30,220 Speaker 1: Oh, yes, very much so. And check this one out. 28 00:01:30,340 --> 00:01:32,620 Speaker 1: We can't wait to hear your thoughts. Be kind to 29 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,220 Speaker 1: your local insects, even if bugs aren't your cup of tea. 30 00:01:36,459 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: And do tune in next week when we're going to 31 00:01:39,740 --> 00:01:44,350 Speaker 1: get into some even more weird war stuff. Backpack nukes 32 00:01:44,709 --> 00:02:16,140 Speaker 1: at Matahari. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome 33 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thanks so much for tuning in. 34 00:02:19,700 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: My name is Ben, and I got to tell you, 35 00:02:22,340 --> 00:02:25,790 Speaker 1: something's bugging me. My name is Noel the Big Buzz Brown. 36 00:02:25,810 --> 00:02:29,550 Speaker 1: Is that what they call you? Oh, no, they call 37 00:02:29,570 --> 00:02:33,190 Speaker 1: me that. Who are they? You know, the royal they. Oh, good. 38 00:02:33,470 --> 00:02:39,310 Speaker 1: The editorial they. We're also joined by our super producer, 39 00:02:39,370 --> 00:02:44,019 Speaker 1: Casey the Big Itch Pegram. How's it going, Casey? Scratching 40 00:02:44,060 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: away over here, I guess. It's that summertime in Georgia, man. 41 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 2: And, you know, when you realize, too, part of the 42 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:56,370 Speaker 2: story is the government actually dumping more mosquitoes into Georgia. 43 00:02:57,250 --> 00:03:00,489 Speaker 2: That's when you realize how truly callous and cruel the 44 00:03:00,530 --> 00:03:01,730 Speaker 2: American government can be. 45 00:03:02,070 --> 00:03:05,870 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll take the name Ben Dropkick Bolin. And it 46 00:03:06,070 --> 00:03:09,810 Speaker 1: is true. The thing that's specifically bugging me today is 47 00:03:09,850 --> 00:03:13,769 Speaker 1: just the heat walking to work. But we are talking 48 00:03:13,790 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: about bugs. We're talking about entomology. We're talking about warfare. 49 00:03:18,570 --> 00:03:22,380 Speaker 1: We're talking about bug wars. That sounds pretty cool. Yeah, 50 00:03:22,419 --> 00:03:27,060 Speaker 1: literal bug wars, right? So, Noel, what are you talking about? 51 00:03:27,100 --> 00:03:31,739 Speaker 1: People were dropping mosquitoes into Georgia? That's one of them. 52 00:03:32,380 --> 00:03:35,540 Speaker 2: That was Operation Big Buzz, which in the 1950s, the 53 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 2: Army put more than 300,000 mosquitoes uninfected mosquitoes into bombs 54 00:03:42,810 --> 00:03:47,170 Speaker 2: and then drop them onto the unsuspecting population of Savannah, Georgia. 55 00:03:47,550 --> 00:03:50,110 Speaker 2: And this was a test for something that the government 56 00:03:50,130 --> 00:03:53,770 Speaker 2: was working on on a much larger scale, the weaponization 57 00:03:54,150 --> 00:03:56,310 Speaker 2: of insects. We'll get into the specifics of each of 58 00:03:56,350 --> 00:03:59,550 Speaker 2: these operations. But for now, Ben, what the hell is 59 00:03:59,590 --> 00:04:03,030 Speaker 2: the weaponization of insects? Let's backtrack a little bit. Sure. 60 00:04:03,190 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: It's a form of biological warfare that You know, it's 61 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: something that a lot of engineers have said before in 62 00:04:10,260 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: the past. People can make things that are pretty good 63 00:04:14,500 --> 00:04:17,530 Speaker 1: in terms of technology. But when it comes to the 64 00:04:17,650 --> 00:04:21,830 Speaker 1: natural results of evolution, Mother Nature tends to make pretty 65 00:04:21,910 --> 00:04:24,890 Speaker 1: great stuff. So why would we go back and try 66 00:04:24,930 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: to build tiny, tiny machines and weapons of our own 67 00:04:28,779 --> 00:04:31,930 Speaker 1: when we could just use the existing creatures? insects. 68 00:04:32,170 --> 00:04:36,250 Speaker 2: Yeah, we know that various versions of weaponizing animals have 69 00:04:36,330 --> 00:04:42,170 Speaker 2: gone varying ways, you know, dolphins, tiny bat bombs, you know, 70 00:04:42,230 --> 00:04:45,410 Speaker 2: that on Japan, the idea that the bats would deploy 71 00:04:45,790 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: into eaves of homes and then these incendiary devices would 72 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:51,700 Speaker 2: go off and burn down Japan. 73 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: That didn't work out so well. 74 00:04:54,140 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 2: This story that we're talking about today, the weaponization of insects, 75 00:04:57,070 --> 00:04:58,409 Speaker 2: has had varying. 76 00:04:58,089 --> 00:05:02,390 Speaker 1: Degrees of success in various different cultures, not only ours. 77 00:05:03,050 --> 00:05:05,790 Speaker 2: But here's the thing. So the turn of the 20th century, 78 00:05:06,650 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 2: human beings in general started figuring out that insects carry diseases. 79 00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:15,420 Speaker 2: The term is vectors. They were vectors for diseases. There 80 00:05:15,460 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 2: is a professor at the University of Wyoming who explained 81 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 2: it as such in the Casper Star Tribune, a gentleman 82 00:05:22,300 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 2: by the name of Jeff Lockwood. He says– Quote, the Japanese, French, Germans, English, 83 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,830 Speaker 2: and the United States all had entomological disease programs active 84 00:05:32,050 --> 00:05:36,110 Speaker 2: during the golden years of 1930 to 1970. And that 85 00:05:36,150 --> 00:05:39,750 Speaker 2: includes a Japanese World War II program. The name of 86 00:05:39,790 --> 00:05:42,330 Speaker 2: that program was Unit 731. 87 00:05:42,330 --> 00:05:48,910 Speaker 1: Unit 731 was the Japanese government's World War II analog 88 00:05:49,470 --> 00:05:52,609 Speaker 1: to the horrific human experimentation that took place under the 89 00:05:52,650 --> 00:05:57,969 Speaker 1: Nazi regime during the Holocaust. So Unit 731 is a very, 90 00:05:58,029 --> 00:06:02,330 Speaker 1: very dark thing. It's not ridiculous, but do be aware 91 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: that it exists. Essentially, Unit 731 engaged in tremendously horrific, 92 00:06:10,620 --> 00:06:16,260 Speaker 1: unethical human experimentation. There are sickening stories that are all 93 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,140 Speaker 1: true and that are worse than fiction. You can learn 94 00:06:20,250 --> 00:06:23,130 Speaker 1: more about these evil science experiments. I do not use 95 00:06:23,170 --> 00:06:26,500 Speaker 1: the word evil lightly. by searching online. There are, of course, 96 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: numbers of books here. They were doing stuff like studying 97 00:06:29,740 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: hypothermia by submerging people's limbs in water until the arm 98 00:06:35,180 --> 00:06:37,849 Speaker 1: or leg is frozen solid and ice formed over it, 99 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: and then striking them with canes. They were essentially vivisecting people, 100 00:06:43,020 --> 00:06:46,659 Speaker 1: conducting surgery on them while they were alive, starving them, 101 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,300 Speaker 1: burning them, infecting them with various diseases. 102 00:06:49,779 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: And part of it was their weaponization of insects wherein 103 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:59,510 Speaker 2: they sprayed fleas from low-flying airplanes, and these fleas were 104 00:06:59,550 --> 00:07:04,810 Speaker 2: infected with cholera. And according to the Boston Globe, in 105 00:07:04,850 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 2: another piece that Lockwood contributed to, these deaths could have 106 00:07:09,580 --> 00:07:14,930 Speaker 2: exceeded that of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined, those bombings. 107 00:07:15,940 --> 00:07:23,510 Speaker 2: At least 440,000 Chinese were killed using these plague-infected fleas. 108 00:07:23,910 --> 00:07:29,030 Speaker 1: That number comes from an international symposium of historians in 2002. 109 00:07:29,030 --> 00:07:33,470 Speaker 1: So relatively speaking, it's pretty recent. And think about that number, 110 00:07:33,470 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: 440,000 people. Japan, we should say as well, is the 111 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: only country in history that has verifiably used plague. bugs 112 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:49,670 Speaker 1: in war. Other countries have experimented with it. Spoiler alert, 113 00:07:49,970 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: one of them being the good old U.S. of A. 114 00:07:52,910 --> 00:07:56,430 Speaker 1: In fact, we experimented with this not once, but multiple 115 00:07:56,470 --> 00:08:00,870 Speaker 1: times in a very short time span in the 1950s, right? 116 00:08:01,230 --> 00:08:04,060 Speaker 1: Because we said there's a golden age from the 1930s 117 00:08:04,270 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: to the 70s. In the U.S., we had not one, 118 00:08:08,180 --> 00:08:14,150 Speaker 1: but three huge operations, weaponizing insects, In the mid-1950s, and 119 00:08:14,250 --> 00:08:18,180 Speaker 1: it's fascinating stuff. The first one where Casey Pegram took 120 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: his nickname for today is Operation Big Itch, which also 121 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,220 Speaker 1: used fleas, right? They took a page from the Japanese 122 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: government there. 123 00:08:26,140 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: Yes, and we have, thanks to the lovely folks at 124 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,179 Speaker 2: The Smoking Gun, have a document that catalogs several of 125 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 2: these programs, one of which has been entirely redacted. But 126 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:37,860 Speaker 2: we do have a little bit of information about that 127 00:08:37,940 --> 00:08:40,970 Speaker 2: one from some other sources. But according to Section 1 128 00:08:40,970 --> 00:08:44,030 Speaker 2: of a document called The History of In-Field Testing in 129 00:08:44,070 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 2: the U.S., Operation Big Itch took place in 1954 and 130 00:08:48,740 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 2: was a series of trials, of tests, that were conducted 131 00:08:52,620 --> 00:08:57,650 Speaker 2: using fleas loaded into E-14 munitions with what's described as 132 00:08:57,809 --> 00:09:01,849 Speaker 2: cardboard and sponge inserts. The idea was that the bugs 133 00:09:01,870 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 2: would be dropped from altitudes of between 305 and 610 134 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 2: meters over a testing area called the Dugway Proving Ground 135 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:15,630 Speaker 2: in Utah. The idea was to investigate the the viability 136 00:09:15,830 --> 00:09:19,910 Speaker 2: of the munitions used here and how effective they would 137 00:09:19,950 --> 00:09:23,569 Speaker 2: be in disseminating what's referred to very scientifically as these 138 00:09:23,710 --> 00:09:24,950 Speaker 2: arthropod vectors. 139 00:09:25,490 --> 00:09:29,929 Speaker 1: Right, exactly. This specifically was the tropical rat flea or 140 00:09:30,190 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: Xenopsila chopis. The logic here is pretty sound, right? The 141 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: waves of death known collectively as the Black Plague came 142 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: from fleas. They're very, very good for transmitting diseases quickly. 143 00:09:44,500 --> 00:09:48,220 Speaker 1: Big Itch showed a lot of promise, but it also 144 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: had some problems. So they were loaded into these munitions, 145 00:09:52,620 --> 00:09:55,130 Speaker 1: dropped from the air, as you said, up to, what, 146 00:09:55,130 --> 00:09:59,850 Speaker 1: 610 meters. They used a couple of different bombs. The 147 00:10:00,020 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: E-14 bomb and the E-23 bomb, which they could cluster 148 00:10:04,660 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: into a kind of a Voltron arrangement called the E-86 149 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,650 Speaker 1: cluster bomb or the E-77. Without getting too in the 150 00:10:12,690 --> 00:10:15,910 Speaker 1: weeds on these abbreviations and numbers, just know that the 151 00:10:16,530 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: E-14 was designed to hold 100,000 fleas, and the E-23 152 00:10:20,860 --> 00:10:26,250 Speaker 1: was designed to hold 200,000 fleas. The E-23 was the 153 00:10:26,290 --> 00:10:30,569 Speaker 1: worst performer. Over half of the bombs failed. They didn't 154 00:10:30,590 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: meet their expectations. They malfunctioned during, this is the worst part, 155 00:10:34,929 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: they malfunctioned during testing. On the plane, right? Yeah, and 156 00:10:38,580 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: the fleas were released into the aircraft where they attacked 157 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,020 Speaker 1: the pilot, the bombardier, and an observer. Someone was just 158 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,740 Speaker 1: sitting there, you know, As a bystander. So they imagine 159 00:10:48,770 --> 00:10:52,179 Speaker 1: you're about to launch a bomb of fleas and the 160 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: bomb goes off in the plane. That's exactly what happens. 161 00:10:55,340 --> 00:10:56,939 Speaker 1: And this, by the way, comes from a great book 162 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: called Weapons of Mass Destruction, an Encyclopedia of Worldwide Policy, 163 00:11:01,059 --> 00:11:05,300 Speaker 1: Technology and History by James J. Wirtz. 164 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:10,900 Speaker 2: Next, we have Operation Big Buzz, which was in 1955. 165 00:11:10,900 --> 00:11:14,090 Speaker 2: And this was an experiment that the Georgia centric one 166 00:11:14,110 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 2: that we mentioned earlier in the show. It was a 167 00:11:16,460 --> 00:11:19,729 Speaker 2: field test that was trying to figure out the, I 168 00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:24,410 Speaker 2: don't know, the viability again of actually breeding and then 169 00:11:25,050 --> 00:11:29,790 Speaker 2: housing and then loading up into bombs and ultimately, you know, 170 00:11:30,470 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 2: scattering these across the land. Yellow fever infected mosquitoes. 171 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,020 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Over 300,000, right? It gets even crazier. 172 00:11:38,780 --> 00:11:39,140 Speaker 2: Than that, right? 173 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: So they did these tests. 174 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:50,689 Speaker 2: In Savannah, Georgia, where they released 330,000 Aedes aegypti mosquitoes, 175 00:11:51,290 --> 00:11:54,309 Speaker 2: which are known vectors for yellow fever. And they did 176 00:11:54,350 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 2: this by dropping them on Georgia parks all throughout Savannah. 177 00:11:59,179 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 2: And they were kind of released out into suburbs as well. 178 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 2: And the idea was that they would see how many 179 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,810 Speaker 2: reports came in of citizens being being bitten, and they 180 00:12:10,830 --> 00:12:13,990 Speaker 2: would kind of be able to tell how effective this 181 00:12:14,050 --> 00:12:17,069 Speaker 2: was as a means of dispersing this disease. 182 00:12:17,230 --> 00:12:20,670 Speaker 1: Not the best methodology. When's the last time you contacted 183 00:12:20,770 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: the government because a mosquito attacked you? These mosquitoes, by 184 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,990 Speaker 1: the way, thankfully, were not actually infected with yellow fever 185 00:12:33,300 --> 00:12:38,209 Speaker 1: for the purposes of this test. But it's pretty insane 186 00:12:38,350 --> 00:12:40,870 Speaker 1: to think that they said, okay, let's just drop this 187 00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:44,750 Speaker 1: off and see what happens. See who is so concerned 188 00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:48,310 Speaker 1: about mosquitoes that they call us. They were also dropping 189 00:12:48,330 --> 00:12:51,890 Speaker 1: these from the same bombs in the Big Itch, the 190 00:12:52,350 --> 00:12:56,630 Speaker 1: E14 bombs. So they clearly thought that there was some 191 00:12:56,770 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: promise for this. In total, I think it was 1 192 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,209 Speaker 1: million female mosquitoes they bred for the testing. At least 193 00:13:04,270 --> 00:13:09,569 Speaker 1: according to Public Health Issues Disaster Preparedness. That's a real... 194 00:13:09,630 --> 00:13:14,449 Speaker 1: Very sexy acronym. Yeah, super creative. Oh, that would be FIDIP. 195 00:13:15,130 --> 00:13:18,010 Speaker 1: Now that is pretty cool sounding. FIDIP. That comes from 196 00:13:18,309 --> 00:13:21,370 Speaker 1: John Marr and Lloyd Novick over at FIDIP. 197 00:13:21,550 --> 00:13:23,390 Speaker 2: I think that's why I like acronyms so much, because 198 00:13:23,429 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 2: the sound of the acronym is usually infinitely more fascinating 199 00:13:26,860 --> 00:13:29,939 Speaker 2: and intriguing than when you actually name out the individual words. 200 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,340 Speaker 1: It's a little easier to remember, too, because it's a mnemonic. 201 00:13:33,220 --> 00:13:40,260 Speaker 1: So what happened with the yellow fever run through or 202 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: rehearsal there in Savannah? Well, I mean, it was annoying, right? Right. 203 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,140 Speaker 2: I mean, it was literally like, you know, Georgia, Savannah 204 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 2: in particular, is a swampy kind of breeding ground for 205 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 2: mosquitoes anyway. Can you imagine just unleashing that on your 206 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: own people? I mean, sure, they weren't infected with the 207 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,380 Speaker 2: actual disease, right? But they were still infected. essentially doing 208 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: military tests on their own citizens, right? 209 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,540 Speaker 1: And there was even more subterfuge because we found that 210 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: government officials disguised themselves as healthcare professionals to monitor the population. 211 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,220 Speaker 1: So that's how they were getting, just to clarify, that's 212 00:14:18,260 --> 00:14:21,850 Speaker 1: how they were intending to get feedback. That's pretty gross, man. 213 00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:28,710 Speaker 1: It's definitely unethical. And with the results there, Would we 214 00:14:28,850 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: say that that was a success? Because the idea, again, 215 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,660 Speaker 1: was they would drop them, and the test was going 216 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: to be whether the mosquitoes could survive the drop and 217 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,100 Speaker 1: then seek food on the ground, right? Seek blood. 218 00:14:40,540 --> 00:14:43,650 Speaker 2: Yeah. What they determined was that the female mosquitoes actively 219 00:14:43,770 --> 00:14:48,410 Speaker 2: sought blood meals from humans and guinea pigs, which is 220 00:14:48,450 --> 00:14:50,450 Speaker 2: what they were described as in the report. 221 00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:50,570 Speaker 1: Right. 222 00:14:51,490 --> 00:14:53,670 Speaker 2: And that some of the mosquitoes were collected as far 223 00:14:53,730 --> 00:14:57,770 Speaker 2: as four-tenths of a mile from the target release site. So, yes, 224 00:14:58,170 --> 00:15:01,230 Speaker 2: it was absolutely effective. They could get into homes, you know. 225 00:15:01,250 --> 00:15:05,110 Speaker 2: I mean, if they were infected with this deadly disease, 226 00:15:05,270 --> 00:15:07,590 Speaker 2: it would have been an absolute bloodbath, no pun intended, 227 00:15:07,770 --> 00:15:08,690 Speaker 2: or maybe pun intended. 228 00:15:08,730 --> 00:15:12,290 Speaker 1: What do I know? Yeah, I mean, absolutely. This seems 229 00:15:12,390 --> 00:15:17,780 Speaker 1: ridiculous now, but it had enormous potential for destruction, so 230 00:15:17,940 --> 00:15:22,140 Speaker 1: much so that that after releasing these Aedes aegypti mosquitoes, 231 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,830 Speaker 1: the U.S. government said, I really think we're on to something. Okay, 232 00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:30,970 Speaker 1: maybe big itch was just a good starting point for us. 233 00:15:31,370 --> 00:15:34,970 Speaker 1: And the big buzz showed some promise. So, hey, guys, 234 00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:39,410 Speaker 1: it's 1956. We're living in the future. Let's do this 235 00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:41,830 Speaker 1: one more time. What do you say for old time's sake? 236 00:15:42,190 --> 00:15:45,850 Speaker 1: Fun is what I say. So that gives us one. 237 00:15:45,770 --> 00:15:51,310 Speaker 2: Of the more shadowy operations known as Operation Dropkick, which 238 00:15:51,330 --> 00:15:52,030 Speaker 2: I believe was your. 239 00:15:51,950 --> 00:15:54,170 Speaker 1: Nom de plume in this episode, right, Ben? Yeah, I 240 00:15:54,190 --> 00:15:56,390 Speaker 1: have a very lazy fighting style. I just sort of 241 00:15:56,430 --> 00:15:59,130 Speaker 1: put my foot up and then it drops. Yeah, exactly. 242 00:15:59,350 --> 00:16:04,090 Speaker 1: It's very effective on shoes. Yeah, well, it's kind of 243 00:16:04,110 --> 00:16:06,990 Speaker 1: an MMA style. It's like an MMA move. Yeah. 244 00:16:07,070 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 2: So this was kind of similar to these other operations, 245 00:16:10,220 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: but had some pretty important distinctions. This took place in 246 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 2: 1956 when this is the Chemical Corps. 247 00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: Isn't that right? Isn't that what conducted this operation? Yep. 248 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 2: Which is an organization I was not familiar with. Tell 249 00:16:22,860 --> 00:16:24,210 Speaker 2: us a little bit about the Chemical Corps, Ben. 250 00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:27,890 Speaker 1: Sure. The Chemical Corps is the branch of the U.S. Army. 251 00:16:28,430 --> 00:16:34,550 Speaker 1: The official stories, they specifically work on defense against nuclear weapons, chemical, 252 00:16:34,650 --> 00:16:38,989 Speaker 1: biological weapons. You'll hear people say that for most of 253 00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:43,220 Speaker 1: its history, the Chemical Corps was actually tasked with delivering 254 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,860 Speaker 1: these weapons instead of defending against them. And you'll hear 255 00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:49,140 Speaker 1: that because it's true. Right. Exactly. 256 00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:57,170 Speaker 2: So they conducted Operation Dropkick when they released 600,000 uninfected 257 00:16:57,210 --> 00:17:03,070 Speaker 2: mosquitoes onto a bombing range in Avon Park, Florida. 258 00:17:03,390 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 1: Yes, that's right. And their methodology was improving. They were 259 00:17:06,660 --> 00:17:09,649 Speaker 1: able to track these mosquitoes a little bit better. They 260 00:17:09,670 --> 00:17:11,409 Speaker 1: were able to come up with an estimate of how 261 00:17:11,450 --> 00:17:14,870 Speaker 1: many entered houses and bit people. And they also found 262 00:17:14,910 --> 00:17:18,869 Speaker 1: that they could deliver them through a couple of different 263 00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:24,220 Speaker 1: devices or methods. In this case, they were released from helicopters, right? 264 00:17:24,460 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: And people in Avon Park, still some of them remembered this. 265 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,419 Speaker 1: You know, they were old enough to be conscious of 266 00:17:32,460 --> 00:17:36,580 Speaker 1: these things happening. And they reported that mosquitoes weren't the 267 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,460 Speaker 1: only things released. There is a Avon Park resident named 268 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: Beatrice Peterson, who wasn't aware of the mosquito releases because 269 00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:47,810 Speaker 1: there are already mosquitoes in Florida. But she did recall 270 00:17:47,869 --> 00:17:50,770 Speaker 1: that a ton of screw worm flies were released in 271 00:17:50,790 --> 00:17:54,330 Speaker 1: the mid to late 1950s when she was 14. 272 00:17:54,330 --> 00:17:56,530 Speaker 2: I think. Yeah. And she describes them as being dropped 273 00:17:56,550 --> 00:17:59,490 Speaker 2: from little boxes out of these helicopters and that they'd 274 00:17:59,580 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 2: see them at school and the boxes would open up 275 00:18:03,619 --> 00:18:04,980 Speaker 2: and the flies would be dispersed. 276 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:06,220 Speaker 1: And here's the thing. 277 00:18:06,580 --> 00:18:10,860 Speaker 2: Avon Park in Florida was a prominently black neighborhood and 278 00:18:11,300 --> 00:18:15,100 Speaker 2: prominently lower income. And a lot of folks actually got 279 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,460 Speaker 2: sick because of this. And I believe a handful actually died. 280 00:18:18,940 --> 00:18:21,770 Speaker 1: Yeah. And we shouldn't skip over that because it is 281 00:18:21,869 --> 00:18:26,590 Speaker 1: true that in many of the illegal experiments that the U.S. 282 00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:32,210 Speaker 1: conducted domestically, they focused on marginalized communities because they thought 283 00:18:32,369 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: they could get away with it. There would at the 284 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,810 Speaker 1: very least be less legal trouble or less possibility. So 285 00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:40,850 Speaker 1: the big question is, what would have happened if these 286 00:18:41,470 --> 00:18:46,030 Speaker 1: insects were carrying disease? The answer is clearly a public 287 00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:48,570 Speaker 1: health disaster would have been possible, would have been in 288 00:18:48,590 --> 00:18:52,010 Speaker 1: the cards, you know, a yellow fever outbreak. So they 289 00:18:52,150 --> 00:18:56,350 Speaker 1: found that in theory, unlike the bat bomb or the 290 00:18:56,410 --> 00:19:00,330 Speaker 1: cyborg cat, which are both real things, this weaponization of 291 00:19:00,510 --> 00:19:03,700 Speaker 1: insects had some sand to it. It could actually work. 292 00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:08,609 Speaker 1: And although the three experiments we outlined occurred in the 1950s, 293 00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that the U.S. Army called it quits. 294 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,899 Speaker 1: We have evidence that shows they were interested in it 295 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: even more recently, right? 296 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,300 Speaker 2: Yeah, we have some documentation that shows that up until 297 00:19:19,420 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 2: as recently as the 1980s, 81 in fact, there's a 298 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,979 Speaker 2: report on entomological warfare that piggybacks off of the research 299 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 2: that was done at that Dugway Proving Ground in Utah. 300 00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 2: And the study actually looks more at how we could 301 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,660 Speaker 2: defend ourselves against attacks being done on U.S. soil by 302 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,690 Speaker 2: infected mosquitoes with yellow fever. And according to the report, 303 00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:50,830 Speaker 2: it noted that U.S. intelligence information indicated that Warsaw Pact 304 00:19:50,869 --> 00:19:55,699 Speaker 2: nations have attempted to develop this capability, and it also 305 00:19:55,820 --> 00:19:59,540 Speaker 2: looks at cost estimates of what the fallout from these 306 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 2: kinds of attacks might be. So this isn't necessarily looking 307 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,149 Speaker 2: at doing the research and developing these techniques ourselves, but 308 00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:09,910 Speaker 2: more guarding against it. in the case of attacks from 309 00:20:10,030 --> 00:20:11,790 Speaker 2: other nations outside of America. 310 00:20:12,270 --> 00:20:15,730 Speaker 1: Right. And this leads us into a bit of conspiratorial 311 00:20:16,330 --> 00:20:20,330 Speaker 1: speculation here. We've heard of the Zika virus, right? Remember, 312 00:20:20,369 --> 00:20:22,450 Speaker 1: that was in the news a lot. So the Zika 313 00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: virus is a disease transmitted primarily by these mosquitoes that 314 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:33,820 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier. Symptoms can be mild and include fever, rash, conjunctivitis, muscle, 315 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:38,610 Speaker 1: joint pain, malaise, a headache. It's 2019, man. I feel 316 00:20:38,630 --> 00:20:42,710 Speaker 1: like most people have malaise of some sort nowadays. But 317 00:20:42,850 --> 00:20:47,510 Speaker 1: it can pose great dangers. It can be particularly dangerous 318 00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:51,250 Speaker 1: to unborn children. It can cause infants to be born 319 00:20:51,330 --> 00:20:57,190 Speaker 1: with a number of deleterious conditions. But some people will 320 00:20:57,250 --> 00:21:00,710 Speaker 1: tell you that the Zika virus is an offshoot of 321 00:21:00,730 --> 00:21:05,429 Speaker 1: the U.S. Army's EW or Entomological Warfare Program because in 322 00:21:05,450 --> 00:21:09,590 Speaker 1: the 1930s, This mosquito, Aedes aegypti, was found in every 323 00:21:09,630 --> 00:21:13,090 Speaker 1: country in South and Central America, throughout the Caribbean, and 324 00:21:13,170 --> 00:21:16,850 Speaker 1: even here in the southeastern United States. And then it 325 00:21:16,910 --> 00:21:19,109 Speaker 1: came with, you know, it came with all the diseases 326 00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:23,230 Speaker 1: that this creature usually carries. Yellow fever, dengue fever, also 327 00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: called breakbone, and now Zika. So people were working to 328 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,980 Speaker 1: eradicate this troublesome creature, which was occurring naturally. It's not 329 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: like Peru was bombing Brazil with these or something. In 1958, 330 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,290 Speaker 1: Brazil successfully eradicated the mosquito and was working to eradicate 331 00:21:41,330 --> 00:21:43,550 Speaker 1: it not just from its own country, but from the 332 00:21:43,609 --> 00:21:46,429 Speaker 1: rest of the hemisphere. This was going to be the 333 00:21:46,490 --> 00:21:53,210 Speaker 1: culmination of decades of work. And unfortunately, even while the U.S. 334 00:21:53,250 --> 00:21:57,090 Speaker 1: was funding eradication efforts in South America, it was still 335 00:21:57,190 --> 00:22:01,169 Speaker 1: secretly raising colonies of millions of these mosquitoes to use 336 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: as weapons. So it was kind of shooting ourselves in 337 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,940 Speaker 1: the foot, robbing Peter to pay Paul. 338 00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:07,940 Speaker 2: It seems like it got out of hand really quickly. 339 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,460 Speaker 2: And a lot of this research really makes me think, 340 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,780 Speaker 2: is the U.S. responsible for how many mosquitoes ended up, like, 341 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 2: in the South? 342 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: They had to, mosquitoes already naturally occurred. No, I know that. 343 00:22:19,859 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, like, when you dump that many 344 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,100 Speaker 2: more on top of an already thriving population. 345 00:22:25,180 --> 00:22:27,060 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not going to double down 346 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: on that. Great time to be a bird. 347 00:22:28,940 --> 00:22:31,570 Speaker 2: Ooh, that's Because I was just thinking like already in 348 00:22:31,609 --> 00:22:34,369 Speaker 2: the summer here in Atlanta, I'm already covered in mosquito 349 00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:36,650 Speaker 2: bites and I haven't been spending that much time outside. 350 00:22:36,890 --> 00:22:39,929 Speaker 2: So they definitely are able to infiltrate homes and get 351 00:22:39,970 --> 00:22:43,770 Speaker 2: inside and get at those those blood bags that are 352 00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:44,389 Speaker 2: human beings. 353 00:22:44,570 --> 00:22:46,909 Speaker 1: I hear you can modify your diet. I don't know 354 00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:52,210 Speaker 1: if it's true such that mosquitoes won't find you tasty. Really? Yeah. Yeah. 355 00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: You will hear people say that there are a couple 356 00:22:54,060 --> 00:22:58,340 Speaker 1: of different what they call mosquito repellent foods, garlic and onions. 357 00:22:58,660 --> 00:23:03,710 Speaker 1: That's not a problem. Apple cider vinegar, lemongrass, chili peppers, grapefruit, 358 00:23:03,810 --> 00:23:06,910 Speaker 1: which I am not going to eat. Not a grapefruit fan. No, 359 00:23:06,930 --> 00:23:09,510 Speaker 1: I hate it. Really? Hate it. Not even like in 360 00:23:09,530 --> 00:23:13,070 Speaker 1: a little cocktail, like a little grapefruit and vodka? Grapefruit 361 00:23:13,210 --> 00:23:15,869 Speaker 1: is an injustice that shall not stand. Interesting. I used 362 00:23:15,890 --> 00:23:16,470 Speaker 1: to not like it either. 363 00:23:16,570 --> 00:23:18,610 Speaker 2: The ruby red I find a little bit more palatable 364 00:23:18,650 --> 00:23:20,670 Speaker 2: than the regular old grapefruit. 365 00:23:20,970 --> 00:23:23,230 Speaker 1: I think it was because when I was in Boy Scouts, 366 00:23:25,109 --> 00:23:27,570 Speaker 1: One summer in the middle of nowhere, we were stranded 367 00:23:27,609 --> 00:23:29,270 Speaker 1: in a place where the only thing to drink was 368 00:23:29,630 --> 00:23:34,310 Speaker 1: water or this rancid grapefruit juice. So that was my 369 00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:36,409 Speaker 1: first success. Yeah, I just can't do it. Got it. 370 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:41,420 Speaker 1: I fully support everyone who enjoys grapefruit. Just don't make 371 00:23:41,460 --> 00:23:43,470 Speaker 1: me participate. No, that's fine. To each his own. 372 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,740 Speaker 2: I also heard a thing about mosquitoes that if you 373 00:23:50,820 --> 00:23:53,139 Speaker 2: flick them off before they've fully had a chance to 374 00:23:53,180 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 2: do their dirty work, it itches more. 375 00:23:56,820 --> 00:23:57,020 Speaker 1: Oh. 376 00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 2: Because there's some kind of antibody or something they inject 377 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,140 Speaker 2: into the bite after they've finished that makes it, like, 378 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:04,180 Speaker 2: less itchy. 379 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,219 Speaker 1: Kind of like the little Cheez-Its you get if you 380 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: donate blood. Exactly. 381 00:24:08,420 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 2: It's just like that. I'm not even going to bother 382 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 2: confirming whether this is true or not. I just choose 383 00:24:12,619 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 2: to believe it is true. But what we definitely know 384 00:24:14,380 --> 00:24:16,460 Speaker 2: is true is there is a precedent for this kind 385 00:24:16,510 --> 00:24:18,370 Speaker 2: of research, and we alluded to it earlier in the show. 386 00:24:18,690 --> 00:24:23,409 Speaker 2: But in 1941, Heinrich Himmler was ordered to create a 387 00:24:23,540 --> 00:24:25,940 Speaker 2: research station, a laboratory that was based out of the 388 00:24:26,020 --> 00:24:30,780 Speaker 2: concentration camp at Dachau under the command of the Nazi SS. 389 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 2: And that was to focus on studying diseases with the 390 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,429 Speaker 2: goal of protecting the Germans. But some new reports from 391 00:24:40,450 --> 00:24:43,330 Speaker 2: the University of Tübingen, an ecologist by the name of 392 00:24:43,410 --> 00:24:47,850 Speaker 2: Klaus Reinhardt, indicate that they were actually working on offensive 393 00:24:48,030 --> 00:24:50,510 Speaker 2: biological warfare programs as well. 394 00:24:50,869 --> 00:24:54,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, just like the U.S. Chemical Corps. You know, they 395 00:24:54,780 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: say it's for defense or research, but it turns out 396 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: the potential for weaponizing this stuff is just too promising. 397 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,940 Speaker 2: Yeah, so under the 1925 Geneva Protocol, Hitler wasn't allowed 398 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,370 Speaker 2: to use chemical or biological weapons during World War II. But, 399 00:25:12,590 --> 00:25:14,830 Speaker 2: you know, like we say, we can on paper say, yeah, 400 00:25:14,869 --> 00:25:17,740 Speaker 2: of course, we're going to follow the rules of engagement. 401 00:25:18,020 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 2: But behind closed doors, he had folks working around the 402 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 2: clock to study the same thing that we're talking about 403 00:25:24,580 --> 00:25:28,060 Speaker 2: in the United States, weaponization of mosquitoes and fleas. 404 00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:31,330 Speaker 1: Right. And as Klaus Reinhart points out, reading through the 405 00:25:31,420 --> 00:25:37,470 Speaker 1: details of the research seems to indicate that there was 406 00:25:37,490 --> 00:25:44,370 Speaker 1: a nother research program, a classified project codenamed Dormaus, or 407 00:25:44,530 --> 00:25:45,790 Speaker 1: can you give it a shot in German? 408 00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:49,689 Speaker 2: How about Siebenschlafer or Schlefer? 409 00:25:49,710 --> 00:25:51,550 Speaker 1: Because it's got the umlaut over the A, so that 410 00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:52,730 Speaker 1: makes it an E sound. 411 00:25:52,869 --> 00:25:53,449 Speaker 2: Schlefer. 412 00:25:53,690 --> 00:25:56,990 Speaker 1: I'm glad you're here. We found this in a Smithsonian article. 413 00:25:57,369 --> 00:26:01,030 Speaker 1: This title is golden. Nazi scientists wanted to use mosquitoes 414 00:26:01,090 --> 00:26:03,570 Speaker 1: to send diseases behind enemy lines. 415 00:26:03,810 --> 00:26:06,730 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's by Colin Schultz. And it goes through 416 00:26:06,750 --> 00:26:10,369 Speaker 2: this research material that we discussed. And some of the 417 00:26:10,470 --> 00:26:13,790 Speaker 2: wording in these documents is what indicates there may have 418 00:26:13,810 --> 00:26:16,350 Speaker 2: been a parallel program. So we don't necessarily know this 419 00:26:16,390 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 2: for a fact or have confirmation, but there is some indication. Again, 420 00:26:20,580 --> 00:26:23,969 Speaker 2: according to Reinhart, the wording, he says, in the German 421 00:26:24,020 --> 00:26:28,580 Speaker 2: documents suggests that they knew that there was a planned 422 00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 2: release of mosquitoes. 423 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So. There's a report dated in September of 1944, 424 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: September the 23rd. And in this report, they have some 425 00:26:41,820 --> 00:26:44,420 Speaker 1: what we call weasel words. They've got some wiggle room. 426 00:26:44,820 --> 00:26:48,790 Speaker 1: They say they're carrying out research, quote, in order to 427 00:26:48,900 --> 00:26:52,690 Speaker 1: clarify the question whether an artificial mass infection of the 428 00:26:52,730 --> 00:26:56,890 Speaker 1: malaria parasite onto humans is possible and how one can 429 00:26:56,990 --> 00:27:01,190 Speaker 1: counter an action that aims at such mass infection. So 430 00:27:01,350 --> 00:27:05,890 Speaker 1: the idea here is, Ultimately, we're learning how to protect 431 00:27:05,950 --> 00:27:09,230 Speaker 1: ourselves against weaponized bugs. And the way we're going to 432 00:27:09,290 --> 00:27:12,270 Speaker 1: do that is to weaponize some bugs and infect a 433 00:27:12,330 --> 00:27:13,650 Speaker 1: ton of people with malaria. 434 00:27:13,770 --> 00:27:16,950 Speaker 2: And then a pretty solid cover story is that they 435 00:27:17,010 --> 00:27:20,330 Speaker 2: were doing this research to prevent plague outbreaks in the 436 00:27:20,390 --> 00:27:24,750 Speaker 2: concentration camps with already weakened, you know, prisoners. 437 00:27:24,430 --> 00:27:27,530 Speaker 1: Of war that were used basically as slave labor. So 438 00:27:27,570 --> 00:27:31,060 Speaker 1: that was an important quality of this research as well. Right. 439 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,930 Speaker 1: They were entirely concerned with the slave labor aspect. It's 440 00:27:35,970 --> 00:27:38,310 Speaker 1: not like they were working on people's quality of life. 441 00:27:39,210 --> 00:27:41,490 Speaker 1: And I got to say, you know, I'm surprised that 442 00:27:41,550 --> 00:27:45,189 Speaker 1: this kind of thing has not been more widely reported 443 00:27:45,330 --> 00:27:49,940 Speaker 1: or has not happened more often because it's clearly unethical, 444 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: but it would have to be effective. You know, the 445 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: mosquitoes just get in everywhere. They're ubiquitous. 446 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:56,980 Speaker 2: Well, we know it is effective from the way the 447 00:27:57,020 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 2: Japanese used it on the Chinese, which With those insane 448 00:28:00,260 --> 00:28:02,500 Speaker 2: numbers of casualties, I think we said in the neighborhood. 449 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: Of half a million. Yeah, 440,000. 450 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 2: So I guess, knock wood, thank our lucky stars that 451 00:28:08,260 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 2: this hasn't been used more because it just sounds like 452 00:28:10,260 --> 00:28:13,470 Speaker 2: an absolute terror. I mean, even the testing in Savannah, 453 00:28:13,490 --> 00:28:17,369 Speaker 2: can you imagine having that many bitey mosquitoes dropped on 454 00:28:17,410 --> 00:28:20,150 Speaker 2: you during the heat of summer? And all of a sudden, like, 455 00:28:20,190 --> 00:28:22,730 Speaker 2: where are these clouds of, you know, insects coming from? 456 00:28:22,790 --> 00:28:24,650 Speaker 2: It sounds like a biblical plague. 457 00:28:24,670 --> 00:28:28,730 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and Savannah already has an atomic bomb resting 458 00:28:28,780 --> 00:28:30,940 Speaker 1: in the water off the coast. Yeah, man, they can't 459 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: get a break. They can't get a break. I have 460 00:28:33,140 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: to ask you guys. Okay, so, Noel, you have what 461 00:28:35,700 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 1: they in the South call sweet blood. Yeah. Right? Because 462 00:28:39,020 --> 00:28:41,670 Speaker 1: mosquitoes bite you. They love me. Casey, what about you? 463 00:28:41,690 --> 00:28:46,550 Speaker 1: Are bugs a fan of your blood? Unfortunately, yes, they are. Wow. Well, 464 00:28:46,590 --> 00:28:50,990 Speaker 1: maybe you guys should incorporate some garlic onions. But I 465 00:28:50,990 --> 00:28:53,050 Speaker 1: eat a lot of garlic and onions. Grapefruit. Do I 466 00:28:53,090 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: have to rub it on my actual body? Yes. While 467 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:01,610 Speaker 1: intoning the phrase, bugs, bugs, go away. Drink my blood 468 00:29:01,660 --> 00:29:03,750 Speaker 1: another day. All right. I'll remember that for next time. 469 00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:07,050 Speaker 2: And you folks, for next time, remember to check us 470 00:29:07,230 --> 00:29:08,310 Speaker 2: out on Facebook. 471 00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:11,170 Speaker 1: Our group is called The Ridiculous Historians. You can be 472 00:29:11,190 --> 00:29:11,510 Speaker 1: a member. 473 00:29:11,530 --> 00:29:14,170 Speaker 2: All you got to do is invoke my name, Casey's name, 474 00:29:14,250 --> 00:29:16,650 Speaker 2: Ben's name, all three, or just make a funny joke 475 00:29:16,670 --> 00:29:17,370 Speaker 2: that makes us laugh. 476 00:29:18,110 --> 00:29:20,990 Speaker 1: Yeah, give me a T-shirt idea, too, if it's a 477 00:29:20,990 --> 00:29:25,430 Speaker 1: good T-shirt. Wow, that sounds harsh. I promise if you 478 00:29:25,820 --> 00:29:27,959 Speaker 1: send a good T-shirt idea or even one that we 479 00:29:27,980 --> 00:29:31,190 Speaker 1: don't end up using, That's not grounds for rejection. 480 00:29:31,390 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 2: And those sweet t-shirt ideas may or may not end 481 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 2: up in our TeePublic store, teepublic.com slash ridiculous history, where 482 00:29:37,460 --> 00:29:40,350 Speaker 2: you can buy all kinds of ridiculous swag, including... the 483 00:29:40,410 --> 00:29:44,690 Speaker 2: brand new Casey on the Case childhood modeling photo t-shirt 484 00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:47,620 Speaker 2: that to me looks like some kind of cool indie rock, 485 00:29:47,890 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 2: like Dinosaur Jr. 486 00:29:49,140 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: Sonic Youth shirt. 487 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 2: I am actually, I've got one packed in my bag 488 00:29:52,180 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 2: for my upcoming trip, and I plan to rock it 489 00:29:54,740 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 2: all over New York City. 490 00:29:56,340 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: They did a fantastic job with that one. Also, Casey, 491 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,330 Speaker 1: by the way, huge thanks again for letting us do that. 492 00:30:04,370 --> 00:30:06,370 Speaker 1: I know I bugged you for a while. 493 00:30:07,250 --> 00:30:09,410 Speaker 2: No, I love how it turned out. So, yeah, all's 494 00:30:09,510 --> 00:30:12,230 Speaker 2: well that ends well. So get you one of those shirts. 495 00:30:12,860 --> 00:30:14,260 Speaker 2: If you don't want to do that, which you should, 496 00:30:14,340 --> 00:30:16,420 Speaker 2: you can check us out on Instagram. Me and Ben 497 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 2: exist independently of the show. I am at HowNowNoelBrown. 498 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,500 Speaker 1: I post, you know, My stories are fun. 499 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,300 Speaker 2: You can check me out hanging out with my kid, 500 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,700 Speaker 2: eating a lot of fancy foods at different eateries around 501 00:30:27,740 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 2: town in the United States. 502 00:30:28,980 --> 00:30:31,610 Speaker 1: And Ben, you're on there too, aren't you? The rumors 503 00:30:31,700 --> 00:30:35,070 Speaker 1: are true. You can find me on Instagram, getting kicked 504 00:30:35,130 --> 00:30:38,210 Speaker 1: into and out of various countries. I am at Ben 505 00:30:38,250 --> 00:30:41,250 Speaker 1: Bolin there. And you can find me on Twitter, hot 506 00:30:41,310 --> 00:30:45,340 Speaker 1: takes left and right. I am at Ben Bolin, H-S-W-L-E. 507 00:30:45,620 --> 00:30:47,340 Speaker 1: We want to give a huge, huge thanks, of course, 508 00:30:47,380 --> 00:30:51,550 Speaker 1: to you, super producer Casey Pegram, to you folks listening, 509 00:30:51,940 --> 00:30:54,550 Speaker 1: and also to Alex Williams, who composed our track. Yeah, 510 00:30:54,590 --> 00:30:58,410 Speaker 1: Gabe Luger, our research associate and friend. Christopher Asiotis, here 511 00:30:58,450 --> 00:31:00,630 Speaker 1: in spirit as always. Jonathan Strickland, the quiz star. I'm 512 00:31:00,650 --> 00:31:02,290 Speaker 1: starting to warm up to his antics a little bit. 513 00:31:02,490 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: It is his birthday today as we record. HBD, Jay Strick. Yeah, 514 00:31:07,060 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: I just walked by, shot him a little finger gun 515 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,060 Speaker 1: and said, Happy New Year, bro. I'll shoot him a 516 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,540 Speaker 1: different finger when I walk by. Okay, I feel like 517 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: you might. But it will accompany birthday wishes. So let 518 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,350 Speaker 1: us know what you think about these strange sorts of experiments, 519 00:31:21,410 --> 00:31:25,130 Speaker 1: not just entomological warfare, but also the use of animals 520 00:31:25,150 --> 00:31:28,730 Speaker 1: in war in general. We have never done what would 521 00:31:28,770 --> 00:31:33,830 Speaker 1: be a lighthearted and delightful episode on animals who got 522 00:31:33,890 --> 00:31:37,630 Speaker 1: military ranks. No. That's just adorable. Okay, we got to 523 00:31:37,670 --> 00:31:39,100 Speaker 1: do that. We got to do that one. And if 524 00:31:39,130 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: you want to send us those recommendations, you can write 525 00:31:41,180 --> 00:31:46,460 Speaker 1: to us at ridiculous at iheartradio.com. See you next time, folks. 526 00:31:51,690 --> 00:31:55,470 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 527 00:31:55,530 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.