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Speaker 1: From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This

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Speaker 1: is Col's Week in Review with Ryan cal Calahan.

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Speaker 2: Here's Cal.

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Speaker 3: Hey, there are Cals we can review. Listeners, Welcome to

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Speaker 3: another fascinating episode.

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Speaker 1: This is a special drought this week.

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Speaker 3: We're changing up the order in order to stay as

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Speaker 3: timely as possible, which is not really possible with the

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Speaker 3: current state of news. I had the pleasure of sitting

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Speaker 3: down with Democratic Senator Martin Heinrich out of New Mexico

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Speaker 3: and Republican Congressman Ryan Zinki out of my home state

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Speaker 3: here in Montana to talk public lands, time on the Hill, advocacy,

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Speaker 3: things like that. I think it's important to call out

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Speaker 3: the fact that this is a Democrat and Republican and

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Speaker 3: the similarities here on our natural resources and our ability

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Speaker 3: to roam. All right, we're going to get back to

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Speaker 3: our regularly scheduled programming and cadence after this week, and

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Speaker 3: keep in mind this might be a little dated by

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Speaker 3: the time you hear it. I'm crossing my fingers currently

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Speaker 3: right now. Just read an article where Congressman Zinki has

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Speaker 3: standing up to the rest of the Republicans in the

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Speaker 3: budget reconciliation process. We need other people to follow this

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Speaker 3: guy's example. On the Republican side of the aisle, Martin

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Speaker 3: Heinrich in New Mexico is doing a great job holding

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Speaker 3: the line on public land sales. And I think one

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Speaker 3: thing that you're going to notice here is if you're

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Speaker 3: paying attention to the news, they keep saying this is

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Speaker 3: a particular issue or a special issue in Western states

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Speaker 3: or just Montana, you need to take a listen to

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Speaker 3: this here podcast and call your representatives, your senators and

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Speaker 3: let them know that you love public lands, public wildlife

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Speaker 3: and access to them and it is not just a

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Speaker 3: Montana thing or just a Western thing. Hopefully this inspires

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Speaker 3: you a little bit. It's a peel back behind the curtain.

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Speaker 3: I hopefully enjoyed Mark Kenyon and I's podcast where we

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Speaker 3: at least tried to walk you through our week on

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Speaker 3: the hill. This is one of the results that came

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Speaker 3: out of it. I hope you enjoy it. Please write

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Speaker 3: into Ask c Al that's ask Cal at the Meat

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Speaker 3: Eater dot com. Let me know what's going on your

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Speaker 3: neck of the woods and let me know if you

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Speaker 3: have any questions. As we cover politics over here, Cal's

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Speaker 3: wee can review thank you so much. Can't wait to

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Speaker 3: hear from you. Without further Ado. Congressman Ryan Zinki, Hey,

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Speaker 3: Cal's wee can review fans. This is another legislative update.

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Speaker 3: I guess we're in session.

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Speaker 1: We're in DC.

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Speaker 3: We've been running around in on the hill talking public lands,

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Speaker 3: public water's, public wildlife access to them, and talking about,

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Speaker 3: you know, how how the whole crazy meat eater for

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Speaker 3: profit world can advocate for wild places alongside nonprofits doing

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Speaker 3: some wearing a couple of hats this week. I'm the

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Speaker 3: national or North American board chair for back country Hunters

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Speaker 3: and Anglers. I'm not sure if you're aware of that.

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Speaker 4: Congressman, I am, and and thank you for your service.

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Speaker 1: Well that's quite a statementself. Well, it's an important issue.

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Speaker 3: And like I said, today, we're talking with Congressman Ryan

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Speaker 3: Zink out of my home state of Montana. And uh,

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Speaker 3: we've covered this on the show already, but one of

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Speaker 3: the unequivocal shining stars of the first hundred days of

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Speaker 3: the Trump administration here is the Public Lands and Public

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Speaker 3: Hands Act. It's something I think we see as non partisan,

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Speaker 3: something folks should be jumping on. So we we're lucky

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Speaker 3: enough to get some time with the congressman a day

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Speaker 3: to talk about public lands and public hands well.

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Speaker 4: And a lot of it is, you know, growing up

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Speaker 4: in Montana. You know, I would say, you know, the

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Speaker 4: experience I had growing up. You know, we in Montana,

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Speaker 4: we inherited a lot of our outdoor experience from the

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Speaker 4: big guys, from Teddy, Roosevelt, Pinchot, and the experience and

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Speaker 4: why we live in Montana for a lot of us

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Speaker 4: is because of the great outdoors, the experience, the access

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Speaker 4: to hunting and trails, and it has changed over the

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Speaker 4: course of time. When I grew up, there was never

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Speaker 4: a problem going out and hunting or fighting, access to rivers.

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Speaker 4: A lot of the rivers didn't have a lot of

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Speaker 4: people on them, and you know, fast forward today there's

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Speaker 4: a lot more people on the river. I give men example,

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Speaker 4: I was in the southern part of the Madison and

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Speaker 4: I was amazed how many people were you know, during

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Speaker 4: a snowstorm last week there was a blizzard, there was

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Speaker 4: a run in the valley and the US and there

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Speaker 4: was a there was a boat every hundred yards and

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Speaker 4: a lot more houses that on that section, uh than

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Speaker 4: I remember. And certainly, and in Montana's changed when someone

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Speaker 4: buys land, they often the first thing to do is

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Speaker 4: put a fence up right, and so the access to

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Speaker 4: our rivers and streams and the conditions of our forests

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Speaker 4: has largely changed. And you know, the challenge is this.

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Speaker 4: You know, we were we were given to a great

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Speaker 4: degree of our outdoor experience again by the by the

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Speaker 4: great ones. The challenge is now going forward the next

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Speaker 4: hundred years. How are we going to manage them? And

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Speaker 4: as you as you see property and getting getting getting

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Speaker 4: sold and in fences going up, there's the new set

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Speaker 4: of challenges of systems. You know, how do we protect

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Speaker 4: the water shed systems, how do we protect migration of

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Speaker 4: big game and animals because you know, as they become

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Speaker 4: more pressure and fractionated, you got to make sure the

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Speaker 4: movement of those systems, you know, maintains and our outdoor

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Speaker 4: experience that we love to a degree is protected. And

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Speaker 4: a lot of it is management, how we manage it

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Speaker 4: and the importance of manage it so we can you know,

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Speaker 4: the next generation so they have the same opportunity that

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Speaker 4: we love and protect. And then there's some challenges out there.

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Speaker 4: But it's not a Republican or Democrat issue. This is

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Speaker 4: an American issue, and those of us in the West

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Speaker 4: we see it more acutely. But it's an important issue

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Speaker 4: and we can't solve it from one side of the

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Speaker 4: aisle or the other. This is again, this is an

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Speaker 4: American issue, and it will take all of us going

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Speaker 4: together to recognize the importance of our outdoor experience and

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Speaker 4: then putting in place ways we can manage it better

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Speaker 4: so we don't have to burn down our force every year.

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Speaker 4: So trail access is better, so you know, we don't

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Speaker 4: have to use ONYX to determine, you know, what the

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Speaker 4: public access site is, and how do you get on

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Speaker 4: the corners because you know, you know, on the corners

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Speaker 4: of f come up in Wyoming, they'll spill over to Montana.

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Speaker 4: And you know, if you have a section of public

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Speaker 4: land somewhere on those four miles, because remember a section

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Speaker 4: is one by one by one, somewhere there should be

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Speaker 4: public access into that property. It may not be the

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Speaker 4: corner because you know when they when they put it together,

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Speaker 4: corner might be over cliff. So somewhere on that public

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Speaker 4: access because it's our land, it's all of our land,

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Speaker 4: and all of us share thinking and responsibility to make

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Speaker 4: sure we we we protect it and and we use

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Speaker 4: the land wisely. And if we do moneying or one

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Speaker 4: of the resources must be a good boy scout. At

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Speaker 4: the end of the day, let's make sure our camp

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Speaker 4: site is as good or better as and what we

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Speaker 4: found it.

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Speaker 3: I mean that sounds great to me. I got a

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Speaker 3: way in on the western perspective and eastern perspective. I

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Speaker 3: was just just last week basically came from West Virginia

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Speaker 3: to DC and floated with our West Virginia Chapter of

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Speaker 3: back Country Hunters and Anglers.

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Speaker 4: Did you float on the golly?

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Speaker 1: We did the New River Gorge up?

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Speaker 4: Yep, Yeah, I've climbed a New River gorge. Nice section

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Speaker 4: of property.

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Speaker 1: Unreal, I mean unreal. And we floated with.

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Speaker 3: Members of the West Virginia Department of Natural Resources and

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Speaker 3: I literally asked them if we were in a closed

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Speaker 3: section of river, because we floated in camp for two

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Speaker 3: nights and in three days we saw not a single

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Speaker 3: other boat on the whole river. And I was like,

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Speaker 3: you guys, do not understand. I keep asking you about

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Speaker 3: this because in Montana right now, it doesn't matter what

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Speaker 3: river you're on. You can't go a day, let alone

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Speaker 3: three days without seeing in another boat.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and there's some secret spots, but you know, certainly

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Speaker 4: on the Madison, the Yellowstone, the Gut and Your and

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Speaker 4: the and the Flathead. You know some forks, but you

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Speaker 4: got to go further and further away, and there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of pressure on our rivers, and you know, not

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Speaker 4: how a river want. We don't want to look like

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Speaker 4: the Sacramento River.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right.

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Speaker 3: We'd love to have duck hunting like the Sack does.

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Speaker 3: But you know one thing that I've experienced out here

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Speaker 3: in you know, my my blink and eye a week

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Speaker 3: here in d C. Is what public land is. And

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Speaker 3: when I bring up public lands, I'll get well, Ryan,

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Speaker 3: don't worry. We're not going to sell national parks. And

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Speaker 3: I have to say, well, you know, sir ma'am, with

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Speaker 3: all due respect, I'm talking about places where you can

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Speaker 3: bring guns and have your dogs off leash, our members

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Speaker 3: at b h A, our customers throughout the whole meat

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Speaker 3: eater world. We like those BLM tracks that you probably

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Speaker 3: don't see as valuable. We like our National fur Us

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Speaker 3: places where you can get out there and hunt well.

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Speaker 4: And a lot of the Forest Service land you can

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Speaker 4: graze on it. A lot of the BLM land you

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Speaker 4: can graze on it. And in even wilderness the nineteen

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Speaker 4: sixty four Wilderness Act, you know, it did allow grazing

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Speaker 4: because there was a great compromise between you know, the

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Speaker 4: grazers and the preservationists the mirrors if you would. But

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Speaker 4: it is still available for not single use. You know,

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Speaker 4: recreation isn't monolithic. You have a lot of aspects of recreation,

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Speaker 4: of hiking, of hunting, those type of things and have

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Speaker 4: that and available you know, West. I think sometimes we

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Speaker 4: take it for granted that you know, hunting opportunities are there,

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Speaker 4: and you know, herds go from private land to public land,

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Speaker 4: and we're seeing a lot of pressure on public land

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Speaker 4: and a lot of the herds will stay on private

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Speaker 4: land because they figure it out, you know, pretty soon.

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Speaker 4: But the migration corridors, for instance, is a really big

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Speaker 4: issue because you know, the herds transit through you know,

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Speaker 4: different sections of land in private and public and as

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Speaker 4: you know, more people move out west, bigger fences and

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Speaker 4: the property gets to a degree fractionated as far as

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Speaker 4: access and movement. You got to look at these corridors

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Speaker 4: and make sure we have a healthy system. Means that

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Speaker 4: big game has to have an opportunity to go to

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Speaker 4: winter range to summer or grange great grazing and in between.

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Speaker 4: And last night we're at the Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Product

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Speaker 4: dinner and one of our great ones talked about these

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Speaker 4: migration corridors are kind of like veins in a body,

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Speaker 4: is that you have to have freedom of movement, and

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Speaker 4: a lot of times it does go through private land

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Speaker 4: and conservation easements, but also working with landowners. You know, example,

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Speaker 4: sheep oftentimes they won't go over a fence. You know,

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Speaker 4: I'll call go over a fence. You know, a bear

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Speaker 4: will go through a fence, but sheep sometimes will go

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Speaker 4: around forty or fifty miles if there's a fence. So

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Speaker 4: sometimes how you design a fence to make sure they

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Speaker 4: are permeable for the wildlife, making sure that they can

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Speaker 4: get over a road. When I was secretary, we put

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Speaker 4: an order in place, you know, to look at corridors,

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Speaker 4: to look at the next hundred years how to protect

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Speaker 4: those those valuable corridors of movement. And what we found

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Speaker 4: that a lot of times because of fences, because of

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Speaker 4: highways and roads, the herds no longer move freely between

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Speaker 4: the places they need to to maintain health, and we

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Speaker 4: can mitigate that sometimes by overpasses on roads, underpasses where

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Speaker 4: it makes sense, making sure we work with landowners to

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Speaker 4: look at the fence design so movement is there. But

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Speaker 4: that's all important a part of managing what I think

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Speaker 4: is our greatest assets in this country. You know, our

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Speaker 4: America's best idea was the parks, but not too far

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Speaker 4: behind was the rest of the public lands. And they

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Speaker 4: should connect and they should work together. What I found

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Speaker 4: as a secretary is that you might have a BLM holding,

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Speaker 4: a Bureau of Land Management holding next to a park,

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Speaker 4: and then next to a forest. Now the park is

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Speaker 4: managed by Department of Interior BLM's Department of Interior through BLM,

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Speaker 4: and the forest service is managed by the US Department

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Speaker 4: of agg through the US Forest Service. But a lot

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Speaker 4: of times the trails don't connect. The management plans are

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Speaker 4: very siloed. And if we're going to manage systems, which

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Speaker 4: we should, we're gonna have to work together, not only

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Speaker 4: between Republicans and Democrats and the public, but also within

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Speaker 4: the government making sure are different you know, agencies and

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Speaker 4: departs from the government. We should have more or less

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Speaker 4: seamless policies that make sense to protect the equal system

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Speaker 4: as it is. You know, watersheds are key to it,

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Speaker 4: but also movement of game flyaways. You know, where our

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Speaker 4: migratory birds can land and and to a degree maintain

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Speaker 4: that path as they go north and southat migration of

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Speaker 4: big game can go either way. It depends on where

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Speaker 4: and where the where the vegetation is. But it is

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Speaker 4: about looking at systems and making sure our systems are

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Speaker 4: are healthy in the future.

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Speaker 3: And I want to I think you touched on on

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Speaker 3: something about you got to work together to ensure this connectivity.

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Speaker 3: And I know you've been working across the aisle on

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Speaker 3: several things that I think the hunting and angling communities

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Speaker 3: would be very supportive of. And would you mind just

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Speaker 3: telling us a little bit about that work.

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Speaker 4: All the there's a you know, and you know up

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Speaker 4: front we live it seems to be a very partisan world.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's left and right, and you see the

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Speaker 4: anger on both sides. But on public lands it's it's

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Speaker 4: not a blue or red issue. It's a red, white

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Speaker 4: and blue issue. And how you work together is you

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Speaker 4: find some common ground. And what we've done is we've

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Speaker 4: introduced to public lands and public hands. We've with you know,

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Speaker 4: the corridor, which is largely bipartisan, and how you kind

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Speaker 4: of get the anger out of the room as you

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Speaker 4: find an opportunity to work together. And I'll say, you know,

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Speaker 4: public lands and public hands is one of those bills bipartisan, right,

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Speaker 4: and how you kind of get rid of the anger

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Speaker 4: out of it as you work together, you gain trust

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Speaker 4: and you start thinking, you know, looking at things that

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Speaker 4: are common ground and easy, and then you can go

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Speaker 4: the next thing because you have a relationship and there's

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Speaker 4: an element of trust together. But it's it's steps along

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Speaker 4: the way and some of these hard challenges that are

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Speaker 4: country face. You know, we're gonna have to work together.

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Speaker 4: You can't. You can't solve things from one side of

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Speaker 4: the aisle or the other. You know, largely the middle

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Speaker 4: just wants things done right and we want to make

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Speaker 4: sure we have accountability. We want to make sure that

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Speaker 4: the outdoors is there. And how you get to that

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Speaker 4: is you start with the on the processes, largely you know, bipartisan,

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Speaker 4: get a lot of support, and then then you tackle

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Speaker 4: that that's a success. Then you go to the next

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Speaker 4: one and the next one and ultimately then you're working

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Speaker 4: together as we should as a country. And look, you know,

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Speaker 4: I spent twenty three years in the Navy Seals. I

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Speaker 4: fought overseas U and I fought for America, not against Americans.

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Speaker 4: And and here under these past few years, it's been

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Speaker 4: it's been pretty rough. Just you know, if just a

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Speaker 4: citizen just want to get things done, it seems like

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Speaker 4: you're going to go to one side of the isle

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Speaker 4: or next. And I'd say that that's move towards, you know,

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Speaker 4: our side of the aisle, as Americans. And then and

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Speaker 4: that's let's use public lands as that vehicle to get there.

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Speaker 4: Let's make a bridge, you know, rather than a fortress.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I love it.

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Speaker 3: And did you you know, you came out right out

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Speaker 3: of the gate as you have in the in the past,

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Speaker 3: and said you're drawing a hard, I think redline you

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Speaker 3: said on on public land sales. Did you experience any

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Speaker 3: any pushback on that when you made that statement.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, there's certain things that I don't bend.

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Speaker 4: Don I don't bend on the Constitution the United States.

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Speaker 4: You know, as a former seal officer, I fought overseas.

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Speaker 4: I've lost a lot of friends. You know fighting for

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Speaker 4: the Constitution, and I won't bend uh. If you don't

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Speaker 4: like the constitution, there's a process to change it. We've

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Speaker 4: had several amendments over to overtime. You know, I'm good

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Speaker 4: to that. But I'm going to defend the Constitution. And

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Speaker 4: I'm also going to defend our heritage, which is public lands.

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Speaker 4: And I give the analogy of a hotel. If you

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Speaker 4: don't like the management or how a hotel is managed,

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Speaker 4: you don't sell the hotel. You you get new management

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Speaker 4: in and and yes, or our forests are burning down.

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Speaker 4: We can be a lot more innovative using best science.

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Speaker 4: You know best use greatest good, longest term. Oh that's

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Speaker 4: that's that's that's the American conservation ethic. You know, it

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Speaker 4: wrapped up in a nutshell, and that's pig show and

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Speaker 4: and and Roosevelt. But you know, to advance the idea

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Speaker 4: that somehow you're going to sell land and that will

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Speaker 4: cure our problems. Number one in the in the country.

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Speaker 4: We don't have a public lands problem, to per se.

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Speaker 4: We have a spending problem. And let's focus on what

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Speaker 4: the problems are. It's our it's our spending. But that's

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Speaker 4: not sell the hotel on our public lands and and

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Speaker 4: lose what I think is the greatest of assets we

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Speaker 4: have in this country is our public lands. And to

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Speaker 4: be able to share that experience the next generation you want,

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Speaker 4: it's gone, it's gone. You know. You look at management

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Speaker 4: of of of game. You know, what's the right population

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Speaker 4: of wolves, what's the right population of bears? All that

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Speaker 4: can be managed you know, to a degree greater too

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Speaker 4: using science. You know, if we can track you know,

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Speaker 4: Taliban in the in the in the hills of Afghanistan,

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Speaker 4: I think we can figure out herds and movement a

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Speaker 4: lot better and use technology to manage so much more better.

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Speaker 4: So it benefits us all.

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Speaker 3: I know, outside of your office here you have like

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Speaker 3: the current rates for.

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Speaker 1: Our our beef prices and green prices.

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Speaker 3: And this is all tied together, that public private landscape

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Speaker 3: when we string these migration corridors together. And is there

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Speaker 3: are there any tips you'd like to offer for kind

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Speaker 3: of working on both sides of the fence for us,

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Speaker 3: you know, public land owner is is kind of the

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Speaker 3: BHA model. But there's not one of us that doesn't

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Speaker 3: spend a little time on both sides of the fence.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, and and let's look at the population

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Speaker 4: of people that go out and hunt and fish and recreate.

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Speaker 4: They're not for one side of the aisle. You know,

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Speaker 4: as a seal, I never asked a person whether the

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Speaker 4: Republican or Democrat. I didn't care that I don't care now.

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Speaker 4: And those that enjoy the outdoor experience there if there

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Speaker 4: are from both sides of the aisle. So the guys

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Speaker 4: that's work together to make sure that we protect and

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Speaker 4: preserve and and I go. You know, I'm never been

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Speaker 4: an advocate for selling or transferring public land. I'm veamingly

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Speaker 4: against and that's a red line with me, the Constitution

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Speaker 4: and selling and selling land. And I've made that known

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Speaker 4: and I'll stand by it. But I'm not alone. You know.

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Speaker 4: I would say most people that that hunt and fish

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Speaker 4: and enjoy the outdoors enjoy the outdoors both on private

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Speaker 4: and public land, and they understand the inter relationship between

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Speaker 4: the two. And yeah, most of us would would would

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Speaker 4: prefer we manage it a little better using using things.

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Speaker 4: But this is this is this again. We were given

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Speaker 4: a legacy, uh that not every country has. And if

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Speaker 4: you go overseas, no one has the park system, no

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Speaker 4: one has the public land system, the recreational opportunities that

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Speaker 4: we do in the in this country, and I think

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Speaker 4: sometimes you need to step back and realize what what

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Speaker 4: the opportunities we were given and then both the responsibility

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Speaker 4: of us all to make sure we pass that out

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Speaker 4: to the next generation so they have the same opportunities

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Speaker 4: we do. Can we make it better? Absolutely more efficient,

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Speaker 4: absolutely better science one hundred percent, but let's work together

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Speaker 4: to do it. And that's not that's not fight on

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Speaker 4: every issue all the time. And you can't learn if

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Speaker 4: you don't listen. So it's all it's okay to disagree,

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Speaker 4: but let's not be disagreeable. Doing it has actually open

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Speaker 4: up our ears and listen, because you know, the other

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Speaker 4: side might might have some pretty good points, uh you know,

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Speaker 4: on it, And because I think most of us that

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Speaker 4: enjoy the outdoors, we we we we want the same thing.

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Speaker 4: How to get there might be a little different. But

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Speaker 4: if we listen to each other and and mitigate and

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Speaker 4: get the anger out, then we can solve the problems.

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Speaker 4: So we don't have these massive forest fires each year

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Speaker 4: that you know, if you're elderly, it's going to affect

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Speaker 4: your lungs. But but also it's going to affect our watersheds,

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Speaker 4: it's going to affect our habitat and then and that's

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Speaker 4: look at at better ways to make sure you you

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Speaker 4: you pull the excess timber, the dead and dying timber out.

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Speaker 4: You know, some of our forests in the northwest of Montana,

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Speaker 4: you know you have a canopy, but everything under the

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Speaker 4: canopy is dead because the trees are too thick. And look,

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Speaker 4: you know, elk don't eat trees, and either de bears.

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Speaker 4: So sometimes it's better to re look at make sure

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Speaker 4: we don't have forests that are monolithic. You know, put

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Speaker 4: a little more aspen in there, opening up a little

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Speaker 4: more so you can have the grasses in there in

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Speaker 4: feeding because you know, bears oftentimes will go where the

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Speaker 4: food is and then they're going hundreds and hundreds of

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Speaker 4: miles because the forests are dead inside. So let's let's

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Speaker 4: look at a better management schemes and improve it and

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Speaker 4: that we can do together.

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Speaker 3: Well, that sounds darn good to me. I really appreciate

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Speaker 3: your time, Congressman, And from a Montana kid to another,

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Speaker 3: I really appreciate how you're representing the state right now

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Speaker 3: in this public lands issue. And I would really like

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Speaker 3: to hear at another time how we can support getting

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Speaker 3: more d's and more rs signed onto this.

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Speaker 4: Thing, absolutely, and then we can all do our part,

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Speaker 4: you know. And this should not be an r D issue.

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Speaker 4: This should should be you know, American and a Montana issue,

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Speaker 4: and all of us it should should recognize. I think

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Speaker 4: how lucky we are to live in Montana, and how

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Speaker 4: lucky we are to have the experience that others fought

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Speaker 4: for that we enjoy, and also how much of responsibility

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Speaker 4: it is to make sure the next generation has the

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Speaker 4: same opportunity. So I appreciate everything you to do, and

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Speaker 4: I look forward to be out on the hunt with you.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, that'd be a killer. Yeah, that'd be a killer.

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Speaker 4: Killer, no pun intended.

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Speaker 3: All right, all you cals, we can review listeners. I'm

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Speaker 3: wrapping up a week on the hill here in Washington,

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Speaker 3: d c. Our Nation's capital. One of the many freedoms

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Speaker 3: we get here as citizens of these United States is

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Speaker 3: you get to actually walk through these buildings where our

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Speaker 3: duly elected representatives are ideally representing our interests, and sometimes

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Speaker 3: you got to stop by and ask them to stay

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Speaker 3: on task, which was kind of my goal here. We've

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Speaker 3: been talking a lot about public lands, waters, wildlife, and access.

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Speaker 3: We had a Ducks and Limited banquet this week. We

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Speaker 3: had the Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Partnership Policy Meeting as well

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Speaker 3: as their Capital Conservation Awards dinner, and it's been a

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Speaker 3: conservation themed week here in DC. But save the best

434
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 3: for last, sitting down with someone we've known for a

435
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 3: long time, Senator Martin Heinrich out of New Mexico, and

436
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 3: we're just going to have a wrap up candid conversation

437
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 3: with the Senator on the state of conservation and public

438
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 3: lands here one hundred days in to a new administration.

439
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 3: Senator Heinrich, how you doing.

440
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 5: You know, I'm holding up okay, but a lot of

441
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 5: challenges right now.

442
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: Seems like a lot of work here.

443
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 3: I don't think everybody's just putting a show on for

444
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 3: me being here this week.

445
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,719
Speaker 5: No, it's pretty much a normal week. Although it's great

446
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 5: to have so many really focused quality organizations in town

447
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 5: to sort of refocus some of my colleagues on just

448
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 5: how important conservation is and how foundational it is, I

449
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 5: think to the American experience and everybody gets pulled in

450
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 5: a million different directions. So having the du dinner and

451
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 5: the TRCP dinner and so many people visiting. That's really

452
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 5: helpful to get my colleagues focused on what matters.

453
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 3: This is going to sound redundant, but it doesn't matter

454
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 3: when people show up and make an appointment and come

455
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 3: in and knock on your door one percent.

456
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 5: And to have people who care about this stuff from

457
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 5: the home states and home districts of individual senators and

458
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 5: members of Congress. That's that's one of the most powerful

459
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 5: things that these organizations do, especially the ones that are

460
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 5: membership based, is that they're able to find those those

461
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 5: spokespeople who live right in your district or right in

462
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 5: your state if you're a senator, and speak to these

463
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 5: issues from that perspective, that that really helps. I think

464
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 5: center how important it is for every member to be

465
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 5: paying attention to this stuff.

466
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 3: That goes, even if you're not attached to a group,

467
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 3: just an individual.

468
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

469
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll tell you you know my experience. You know,

470
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 3: you don't ever don't always get to speak to your

471
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 3: congress person or or senator. You're often working with staff.

472
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 3: Does staff matter?

473
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, yes, yeah, they're the subject matter experts, right, So,

474
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 5: like all of us as members have some background that

475
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 5: we know well, and we really you know, can sort

476
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 5: of hold our own in and for me that's natural

477
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 5: resources and energy. But we have to cover so much

478
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 5: any different things, right, And so you have these subject

479
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 5: matter experts and they're the staff and being able to

480
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 5: engage directly with them is absolutely important.

481
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 3: And what what's on the on the top of your

482
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 3: your pile right now? What are you engaging in?

483
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 4: For?

484
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 5: For me, it we have never I've been through a

485
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 5: few cycles of this sell off the public lands stuff.

486
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 5: It comes and it goes, and uh, it's not it's

487
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 5: not my first rodeo, but I've never seen it so

488
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 5: close to actually happening as right now. And I think

489
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 5: one of the reasons is historically, you know, we've seen

490
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 5: legislation from members in Utah, for example, to to sell

491
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 5: off public lands. We had the whole Jason Chafitz drill

492
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 5: back in the day when I was in the House

493
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 5: of Representatives. But that kind of legislation in the Senate

494
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 5: requires sixty votes, so it was never even though it

495
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 5: was it was very timely and we had big fights

496
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 5: on the hill about it.

497
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: It was very public, it was very opublic.

498
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: It wasn't on the verge of happening.

499
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 5: We've never been closer to it actually happening than right now,

500
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 5: and I think it's important for the public to understand.

501
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 5: One of the reasons why that is is because there's

502
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 5: something called budget reconciliation that where you can set policies

503
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,239
Speaker 5: so long as they have a budget impact with a

504
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 5: bare majority, so fifty one votes in the US Senate,

505
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 5: and your public lands could be divested off. We could

506
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 5: see BLM lands disappear, maybe other public lands, and that's

507
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 5: never been on the verge of happening like it is

508
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 5: right now. And to see so many of my colleagues,

509
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 5: I mean, when we first it's a complicated process. It's

510
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 5: kind of a two step process. The first half of

511
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 5: that is sort of goal setting but not written in stone.

512
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,479
Speaker 5: And we had an amendment to say hands off our

513
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 5: public lands, and all but two Republicans voted against that amendment.

514
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 5: That worries me because I know that this is bipartisan,

515
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 5: Like I hunt and fish with people who don't agree

516
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 5: with me on a lot of political issues, and across

517
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 5: the spectrum in New Mexico, the people who care about,

518
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 5: live on, love our public lands are all across the

519
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 5: political spectrum. And yet it was we had an overwhelming

520
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 5: vote on one side of the aisle to not protect

521
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 5: those public lands, and so that really worries me. I

522
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 5: don't think we've ever been this close to this being

523
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 5: reality before.

524
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 3: Obviously, you know, we've talked about Senator Lee.

525
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 4: This is.

526
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 3: You know, a goal of his and he's been out

527
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 3: in front with it for a long long time, so

528
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 3: much so that I you know, on the conservation side

529
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: of things, things last forever, it takes a long time

530
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 3: to get things done, and there's all sorts of burnout.

531
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 3: This guy does not experience burnout on this topic.

532
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 5: Look, I have a good relationship with with Senator Lee,

533
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 5: he's the chairman of my committee. But we come from

534
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 5: very different perspectives on this. I mean, I view public

535
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 5: lands as the anvil with which the American experience, especially

536
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 5: in the West, was created, and you know, I grew

537
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 5: up as an outfitter guide taking people out to experience

538
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 5: those public lands. They're central, in my view to our

539
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 5: rural economies in New Mexico. And I don't want to

540
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 5: speak for Senator Lee, but it seems like he views

541
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 5: them as a burden, as something negative, and I just

542
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 5: I couldn't have a more different perspective on that.

543
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 2: So many of the.

544
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 5: The memories, the experiences that make me who I am,

545
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 5: come from time spent with friends and family on public lands,

546
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 5: and that my hope is that that perspective, you know,

547
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:25,959
Speaker 5: wins the day.

548
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's something we share in common. I'd

549
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 3: tell folks all the time. I'm if I come away

550
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 3: from my like meat eater life having nothing but cool

551
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 3: critters on the wall, it's just going to be a

552
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 3: life squandered. Because all these experiences that I've had, I

553
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,239
Speaker 3: feel indebted to others to make sure that they at

554
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 3: least have the option. I don't need them all to

555
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 3: do it, but they need to appreciate, hopefully why I

556
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 3: we do it and have the ability to go out

557
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 3: and create some memories out there, some experience answers on

558
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 3: their own.

559
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 5: And I've I've been so fortunate and to be able

560
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 5: to travel the world and to see that what we've

561
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 5: built here in the United States of America is truly unique.

562
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,959
Speaker 5: I mean, we we come from this European history where

563
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 5: it's landed gentry who get to do those things right,

564
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 5: It's people of wealth and means and property, they get

565
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 5: to do those things and certainly there are plenty of

566
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 5: people here in the United States who have some amazing

567
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 5: trophy l property.

568
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 2: But I don't care.

569
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 5: Who you are, how how skinny your wallet and your

570
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 5: bank account are. In the United States of America, wildlife

571
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 5: and public lands are of public trust, and that means

572
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 5: anybody can can go and do this stuff. I mean,

573
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 5: when I was poor in my twenties and and you know,

574
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 5: didn't didn't barely have a bank account, I was still

575
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 5: going out and having amazing experiences on for Service Land,

576
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 5: on Blm land. That's unique in the world. That is

577
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:14,479
Speaker 5: not normal. It is something we have created. In part

578
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 5: that we created in opposition to you know, where we

579
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 5: came from and the European feudal history, that as we

580
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 5: built this democracy, we were saying, there's a better way

581
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 5: to do this stuff.

582
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 2: There's a more democratic way to do this stuff.

583
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 3: And I definitely want to get into that. But there's

584
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 3: this kind of phrase that I've encountered multiple times this week,

585
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 3: and it kind of comes in two forms. Oh, Ryan,

586
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 3: don't worry about your public lands. We're not going to

587
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 3: sell national parks. And then I have to explain, well,

588
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 3: national parks are special, they're great but I'm talking about

589
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 3: places where you can have a dog off leash and

590
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 3: shoot guns. And those aren't your national parks.

591
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 4: No.

592
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 5: I hear that all the time, Like I've seen secretaries

593
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,280
Speaker 5: of interior say that we're not talking about the special places,

594
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 5: We're just talking about all that other stuff, all that

595
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 5: yellow stuff on the map. I'm like, that's where I

596
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 5: spend my time on that yellow stuff on the map.

597
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 5: Like your listeners know that. Like when you look at

598
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 5: a map of your home state, you know what that

599
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 5: green means, and you know what the state blue means,

600
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 5: and you know what the yellow means. And national parks

601
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 5: are not the experience that most sportsmen and women in

602
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 5: the West are relating to on a daily basis. They're

603
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 5: really important. They drive our economies. I love our parks,

604
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 5: but I don't want to go spend a time with

605
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 5: the crowd. I want to get outside and relate directly

606
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 5: to the landscape. And that's those are the places that

607
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 5: have not only fed my soul, but literally fed my

608
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 5: family as my boys grew up.

609
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 3: And then there's also the oh Montana and their relationship

610
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 3: with public lands that that's unique, you know. I talk

611
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 3: about the membership of backhuntry, hunters, and anglers. I talk

612
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 3: about the customer base of meat eater, like, we can't

613
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 3: do what we do if it was just one state. No,

614
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 3: and why do we have this perspective? But I'm hearing that,

615
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, you're just different in Montana. And I

616
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 3: don't think that's a perspective that just belongs to a

617
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 3: certain few Republicans or a certain few Democrats. But where

618
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 3: how do we reach these folks and provide that connectivity?

619
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 5: I mean, I think we have to have people from

620
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 5: every state come and tell their story in places like

621
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 5: the Halls of Congress, to make it clear that, you know,

622
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 5: people in Florida really care about their national wildlife refuges

623
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 5: and people in Virginia really love their national for us, like,

624
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 5: this is not a Montana and New Mexico thing, This

625
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 5: is a United States of America. And people don't always

626
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 5: even think about the like they don't always even the

627
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 5: places that they care about that they have access to

628
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 5: that are public lands, they don't always think of.

629
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 2: Them as public lands.

630
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 5: They think of them as, oh, my national forest or

631
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 5: my wildlife refuge.

632
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 4: And so.

633
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 2: You know, I've noticed this.

634
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 5: The way that people try to say, oh, Montana is different,

635
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 5: as if to like put it to the side and

636
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 5: make you this special bucket that doesn't apply to everywhere else.

637
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 5: But it's like this, people are just as passionate in

638
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 5: my home state of New Mexico about public land as

639
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 5: they are in Montana. And I think if you talk

640
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 5: about place anywhere in the country, you'll find that that

641
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 5: if you personalize it and make it about you know,

642
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 5: the places that really matter to you. It runs the gamut.

643
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 5: It is is a fifty state issue.

644
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 3: So I spoke with Congressman Zinki here earlier today, in fact,

645
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 3: and we spent some time talking about like working across

646
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 3: the aisle, and he had some great things to say.

647
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 3: I'm super happy that he's representing Montana with the attitude

648
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 3: that he expressed of we got a lot more in

649
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 3: common than we have not right absolutely, how to like

650
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 3: build those That's how you.

651
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 2: Get things done in Washington, d C.

652
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 5: By the way, is that you find those places where

653
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 5: you really can build a broad coalition. And you know,

654
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 5: Congressman Zinci is somebody I've known for a long time.

655
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 5: I think the first time I met you in person

656
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 5: may have been at the Sabinoso Wilderness when he came

657
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 5: out and he and I went horseback riding into Sabino

658
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 5: so and you know, getting on the landscape together changed

659
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 5: perspectives that it made things possible that when we were

660
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 5: just talking about them in Washington, DC over a map,

661
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 5: it made things real and attainable that weren't before. And

662
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 5: we were able to work together on that. And I

663
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 5: know he's working with my one of my members of Congress,

664
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 5: Gave Basquez in southern New Mexico. They're in different parties,

665
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 5: they grew up in very different places. They have different perspectives,

666
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,760
Speaker 5: but public lands are bringing them together around this idea

667
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 5: that we shouldn't be selling off our public lands.

668
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: Two great stories there.

669
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 3: One when we did meet in the Sabioso Wilderness, the

670
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 3: Senator you know, saved saved me from uh exploring this centipede,

671
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 3: this giant centipede that I found that I was like,

672
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 3: this is an amazing animal. He's like, oh, you don't

673
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 3: want to touch that. I don't know the name of it,

674
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 3: but it was impressive. Huge and then and venomous and

675
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 3: venomous had that when and that was such a neat project,

676
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 3: right it was a landlocked wilderness area.

677
00:39:58,440 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: Capitol w wilderness.

678
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 3: That's right, something we hold with very high regard in

679
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 3: the outdoors community, and that took a lot of groups

680
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 3: coming together to you know, have those Yeah.

681
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 5: I mean I actually before I was a member of Congress,

682
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 5: I used to be the access chair UH for the

683
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 5: New Mexico Wildlife Federation and and I got talked into

684
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 5: doing that because I wanted to figure out how to

685
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 5: get access to the Sebinoso and UH. And it took

686
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 5: a long time, but but we made it happen. And

687
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 5: today you know that that that you know, for people

688
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 5: in Las Vegas, New Mexico, for example, that is just.

689
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 4: A really.

690
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 5: Important place for them to be able to access and

691
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 5: to spend time and people are thrilled.

692
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,479
Speaker 2: But that's open to the public now.

693
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely.

694
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 3: I think there's a good example of of the the

695
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,399
Speaker 3: timelines that we've kind of referenced a couple of times here.

696
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 3: The Good sam Act made it through in December of

697
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 3: last year. And I know that was something that you

698
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 3: were working hard on. Do you want to explain that

699
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 3: real quick?

700
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:12,280
Speaker 4: Sure?

701
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 5: So that's a bill that Jim Rish and I were

702
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 5: able to get passed in December of last year. But

703
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 5: we were at the end of the relay race, right

704
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 5: it started. I think the first version of Good Samaritan

705
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 5: mining reform was introduced by Max Bacchus in nineteen ninety nine,

706
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 5: so it was a twenty five year effort to get

707
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 5: that done. And what it does is we have these

708
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 5: abandoned mines all over the country, especially in the West

709
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 5: and Iraqi Mountains, but truly every state has its abandoned mines.

710
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 5: And if you want to go in as a local

711
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 5: chapter of Trout Unlimited or backcountry Hunters and Anglers and

712
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 5: clean up one of these mind sites, the second you

713
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 5: touched that site. You don't just own the liability for

714
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 5: if you mess something up and hurt your neighbor. You know,

715
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 5: if you dump some tailings into a stream and pollute

716
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 5: that stream downstream and hurt your neighbors, that's understandable, but.

717
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 2: You you actually own the.

718
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 5: Liability for having created that site in the first place,

719
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 5: which is kind of bonkers, right, And no one will

720
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 5: clean those places up because of it, because you know,

721
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 5: it may only cost one hundred thousand dollars to clean

722
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 5: up a mind sight that is actually hurting a trout fishery,

723
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 5: but you might own five million dollars worth of liability

724
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 5: for that project. Nobody can afford that. So we created

725
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 5: this legislation to say, if you mess something up along

726
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 5: the way, you're on a hook for that you have

727
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 5: you own that liability. And sometimes things go wrong and

728
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 5: you should be responsible for that, but you shouldn't be

729
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 5: responsible for having created that site. And so what this

730
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,720
Speaker 5: does is it gives the ability of that local trout

731
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 5: Unlimited group or the backcountry hunters and anglers to be

732
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 5: able to go in and clean most of these places up.

733
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 5: A lot of these are really simple to clean up,

734
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 5: but nobody can afford that liability, and so we create

735
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 5: a real incentive to start cleaning up these mind sights

736
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 5: that haven't had a responsible party, haven't had a corporation

737
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 5: associated with them for one hundred years in many cases,

738
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 5: and they're dotted all around the West, and they're leaking

739
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 5: heavy metals and acid into some of our best trout streams.

740
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:34,919
Speaker 5: We can do something about this.

741
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 3: I think that's just an important point to make that

742
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 3: we can make things happen. It may take longer than

743
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 3: we want it to, and again, we're only a little

744
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,959
Speaker 3: over one hundred days in now to a new administration.

745
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 3: One of the folks we sat down with actually on

746
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 3: the Republican side of the aisle this morning, said, well,

747
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,919
Speaker 3: you know, Trump shook up the snow globe pretty good,

748
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 3: and we're trying to wait for things to settle to

749
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 3: see what we can get done. Are you, I know

750
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 3: you're in the same position, but are Do you have

751
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,919
Speaker 3: anything kind of in your crosshairs that you're hopeful can

752
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 3: get done in the near term or the long term.

753
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 5: You know, I'm still incredibly committed to the Recovering American's

754
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 5: Wildlife Act. That's something that I started working on with

755
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 5: Roy Blunt a few years ago before he retired. Tom

756
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 5: Tillis took over the Republican side of that legislation, and

757
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 5: we're you know, I think we have it to a

758
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 5: point now where everybody, for the most part, most people

759
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 5: agree this is really good policy, and we have to

760
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 5: figure out, you know, how to pay for it in

761
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,320
Speaker 5: a way that people can agree on as well.

762
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 2: But that is a bill.

763
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 5: That would take you know, we do emergency room wildlife

764
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 5: pretty well in this country. That's what the Endangered Species

765
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 5: Act is. It's like when things go really bad and

766
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 5: you've got a handful of whatever the species is left,

767
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 5: the Endangered Species Act comes in and tries to bring

768
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 5: them back from the brink. That's not the smart way

769
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 5: to do wildlife conservation. The smart way is to invest

770
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 5: a little bit when the population starts to decline, but

771
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 5: there's still plenty around to work with, right, And so

772
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 5: you know, I like to say the Endangered Species Act

773
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 5: if it's the emergency room of wildlife conservation, recovering America's

774
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:44,439
Speaker 5: Wildlife Act would be the primary care. Like, let's keep

775
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 5: these species robust when we can invest a little bit

776
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 5: and have a huge bang for our buck and make

777
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 5: sure that from bumblebees to bison, we keep this incredible

778
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 5: diversity of wildlife around for our kids and our grandkids

779
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 5: to be able to appreciate.

780
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 3: We spoke about this a few years ago because all

781
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 3: of our great conservation success stories in America are because

782
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 3: of giant conservation failures. And it's the funny thing, right,

783
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 3: It's like what you want is a boring story. It's

784
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 3: just good stewardship, conservation work, being aware looking down the road, and.

785
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 5: So much of what works in conservation is sort of

786
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 5: behind the scenes because it works so well and people

787
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 5: just it.

788
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 2: Like I'll give you an example.

789
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 5: I set on the Migratory Bird Conservation Commission, and we

790
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 5: approve the NAKA, the North America Wetless Conservation Act projects

791
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 5: and grants. We approve that the duck stamp, we get

792
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 5: to approve where the acquisitions are for wetland habitat to

793
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,839
Speaker 5: support that. Your duck stamp goes to every year, and

794
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 5: it's kind of conservation on autopilot. We we don't have

795
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 5: a lot of fights on that board. We generally agree

796
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 5: and as a result, you know, hunters have been supporting

797
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 5: waterfowl habitat for the better part of a century. And

798
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 5: it just works. Like you buy your duck stamp, and

799
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 5: if you look at birds across the United States, most

800
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 5: of them are in decline, not waterfowl because we have

801
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 5: the duck stamp, we have NAKA, and those things are

802
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 5: creating habitat every year and keeping those populations robust. And

803
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 5: you just don't hear about it because it's not a

804
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 5: it's it's not a it's actually working.

805
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, yep.

806
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 3: And then you know, we just the other week we

807
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 3: we covered some of the hits to the US Vision

808
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 3: Wildlife Service. And I've been here during this week. While

809
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 3: we've been here, Mark Kenyon and I were running around

810
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 3: and talking to people that some of the squeaky wheels

811
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 3: are getting the grease in regards to some of these big,

812
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 3: massive doge cuts using the machete or the chainsaw. And

813
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 3: then it takes folks like yourself to reach out again

814
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 3: and say, hey, this thing really matters. And I just

815
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 3: had a pilot for the US Fish and Wildlife Service

816
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 3: write me a letter the other day and say, hey,

817
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 3: we got laid off. I do the bird surveys, I

818
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 3: do the caribou surveys. And this isn't something you can

819
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 3: learn on YouTube.

820
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 5: No, And I don't like this is that's an example

821
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 5: could really sneak up on them, because you know, if

822
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 5: you're going to have a duck season, you got to

823
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 5: know what the population is. You got to actually know

824
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 5: what the breeding population of waterfowly is on their summer habitat,

825
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 5: long before duck season rolls around. And who does that.

826
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 5: That's what those pilots do. They go out and they

827
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 5: count those. If we don't have that number, you know

828
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 5: they're gonna set very conservative.

829
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 2: Limits or even closed seasons.

830
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 5: Like when that happens, it's going to get people's attention

831
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 5: and have.

832
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 3: You been hearing anything positive about being able to restaff

833
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 3: some of those offices, or get a hold of somebody

834
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 3: and say no, no, no, this thing is important.

835
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 5: It's been it's been a mixed bag. I will say

836
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 5: the courts have been very helpful because there were a

837
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 5: lot of you know, I had a lot of people

838
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 5: laid off in the Forest Service in New Mexico that

839
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 5: that got you know, reauthorized to come back.

840
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 2: Many of them did come back.

841
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 5: If you said, I'm not going through this again, I

842
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 5: don't like how I got treated, I'm going to go

843
00:49:55,640 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 5: look for something in the private sector. You know, every

844
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 5: week there are five fires and I can put one

845
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 5: of them out, you know. So yeah, I'm engaging with

846
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 5: Secretary Burgham or the new chief of the Forest Service,

847
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 5: trying to trying to problem solve these things. But so

848
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 5: much of it seems to be run from the perspective

849
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 5: of some twenty five year old looking at a spreadsheet

850
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 5: and not even understanding oftentimes what the program is that

851
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 5: they're impacting, looking for a keyword or what have you,

852
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 5: rather than the sort of thoughtful efficiency.

853
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 2: That we would all support.

854
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 5: I mean, we have something called the Government Accountability Office.

855
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 5: It was DOGE before DOGE was a thing. They you know,

856
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 5: we fund them to find efficiencies in government, and every

857
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 5: dollar we put into the GEO, we get over one

858
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 5: hundred dollars back in savings. But they're very thoughtful and

859
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 5: thorough and they dig into those programs ahead of time

860
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 5: so that you don't have the kind of chaos and

861
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 5: unintended constant sequences that we're seeing right now. And you know,

862
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 5: I doing what I do, caring about the things that

863
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 5: I care about. I know people at Fish and Wildlife

864
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 5: who are just they're taking the buy out and they're

865
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 5: they're they're good. They're out the door. They're not coming back.

866
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 5: And their expertise took thirty years to create and it's

867
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 5: not going to be back. It's not going to be

868
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 5: in the service anytime soon. And so we're going to

869
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,919
Speaker 5: be firing on less than all cylinders for a long

870
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 5: time to come.

871
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 3: We spoke about this a little bit with with Congressman Vasquez.

872
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 3: I always get that it's Representative Veasquez or Congressman either one,

873
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 3: and it's interchangeable.

874
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 2: It's interchangeable.

875
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you. I learned learned something. There's decorum and

876
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 3: protocol in these places, and it doesn't matter how many

877
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:51,879
Speaker 3: times I show up here.

878
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 1: I don't think I get it all.

879
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 5: What you need to know is the more times, the

880
00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 5: more superlatives that you say about your good friends and

881
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 5: from the state of wherever, the more you're covering up

882
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 5: for the.

883
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 2: Friction and the cost.

884
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 3: All right, everybody remember that one. But we did talk

885
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 3: about that part of what you get when your brand

886
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 3: new whatever is working alongside somebody's been doing it for

887
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 3: a long time and getting that knowledge of like, oh, yeah,

888
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 3: that's what the handbook says, but that doesn't work here.

889
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 5: Here's a real story. It's called mentorship.

890
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 4: Right.

891
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,720
Speaker 5: Every good CEO in this country will tell you about

892
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 5: the importance of mentorship and how it impacted their ability

893
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 5: to be a better manager, to be more efficient, to

894
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:46,919
Speaker 5: be more effective. And we're sort of short circuiting that

895
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 5: randomly through these agencies.

896
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:52,919
Speaker 3: Are we going to see a build back in these

897
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 3: agencies that you're aware of yet?

898
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 5: I mean, the build back is just the fact that

899
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 5: a lot of people who were fired, they weren't laid off.

900
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 5: They were literally fired with emails that said, you know,

901
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,399
Speaker 5: you're not doing your job. In fact, many of those

902
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 5: people were folks who had just been promoted because they

903
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 5: were doing their job well and because they were promoted,

904
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 5: their probationary for the first twelve months, So we fired

905
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 5: the dose. Approach to this was like to fire the

906
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 5: best and the brightest as opposed to finding the weak

907
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 5: links and trying to downsize to attrition. So we're not

908
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,720
Speaker 5: in that build back phase yet and we probably won't

909
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 5: be for a little while.

910
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 3: It's interesting. I felt like I came up with a

911
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 3: good line, and I've been trying to repeat that to everyone.

912
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 3: I said, you know, I know this stuff takes time,

913
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,280
Speaker 3: but you got to keep in mind every hunting season

914
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 3: is somebody's first and at somebody's last, so this stuff's

915
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 3: really important.

916
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 2: That is a good line.

917
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 3: Well, thank you and our BHH aptors have you know,

918
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 3: we volunteer a lot, right, and thank you for that.

919
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 2: That's a great example.

920
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 5: I'll tell you a habitat specialist in New Mexico who

921
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:21,240
Speaker 5: was working with BHA and other groups to remove fence

922
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 5: that was no longer serving livestock purposes in the Rio

923
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 5: Grande del Norte National Monument.

924
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:28,879
Speaker 2: You know, was one of the.

925
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 5: First people to go and like, how do you like

926
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 5: if you don't have those people. They're the glue that

927
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,240
Speaker 5: allows you to do these good wildlife projects. It's always

928
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 5: a partnership between somebody at the agency and the volunteer

929
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 5: muscle that a BHA can provide. And you know, together

930
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 5: you can change a landscape and uh, take out old

931
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 5: fencing that's that's interrupting elk migration or antelope migration.

932
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 3: And you need to have that point of contact, that trust.

933
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 2: Somebody has to.

934
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 5: Pick up the phone down at the at the BLM

935
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 5: or the Forest Service and and actually be that point

936
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 5: of contact.

937
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 3: We have a Kansas chapter that they they you know,

938
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 3: they're like, we're out there like running chainsaws and burning

939
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 3: stuff with our state DNR. But we started with like

940
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 3: picking up trash on the side of the road. So

941
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 3: we have to build that relationship trust. Yes, and then

942
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 3: when those points of contact go away, you have to

943
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 3: start over.

944
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 5: Start from scratch. And nobody's going to hand you a

945
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 5: drip torch on day one. That's a good reason.

946
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 2: Which is a good reason. Yeah.

947
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 3: But and so one thing that we're hearing from state agencies,

948
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 3: and this is something people need to be aware of,

949
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:48,399
Speaker 3: is that our are already allocated funds, our own fund,

950
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 3: our Pittman, Robertson and Dingle Johnson dollars that are then

951
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 3: matched with our state license and tag fees to get

952
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 3: habitat work done on the ground. What we're hearing from

953
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:06,720
Speaker 3: all across the US is that office is basically empty.

954
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 3: So it's our cash for the projects, and it's hard

955
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 3: to get somebody to pick up the phone and get

956
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 3: the check sent out. And so that's been an ask

957
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 3: that we've been making, like, hey, this is.

958
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 1: An easy one. Yeah, if you can make some phone calls.

959
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 2: How critical is that?

960
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 5: I mean, I worked on a project in New Mexico

961
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 5: that was really kind of a good example of how

962
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 5: you have to if you want to do good things

963
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 5: in government, you really need folks pulling together for the

964
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 5: local level, the state level, the federal level together. And

965
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 5: so we did an acquisition that became a wildlife management

966
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 5: area in New Mexico, and a key part of that

967
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 5: was being able to leverage Pittman Robertson dollars. And so

968
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 5: you know, fifty four thousand acres we were able to

969
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 5: conserve for wildlife in New Mexico wouldn't have gotten there

970
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,919
Speaker 5: if it wouldn't have been for the CORPUS. The sort

971
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,319
Speaker 5: of foundational Pittman Robertson dollars. And then we were able

972
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,280
Speaker 5: to attract charitable dollars, and we were able to attract

973
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,800
Speaker 5: you know, individual private individuals who wanted to give towards

974
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 5: wildlife conservation. But if it hadn't been for the PR dollars,

975
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 5: we would have never been able to build the budget

976
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 5: for that project.

977
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, because you can say, hey, if we can

978
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 3: raise this amount that's fifty percent less than the total project, right,

979
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 3: we'll get this amount in PR dollars.

980
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

981
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's a big, big motivator.

982
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 2: On the beverage yep, big time leverage.

983
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

984
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 3: And and do asks like that get some traction when

985
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 3: we're out here. I know there's big things going on. No,

986
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 3: but I'm trying to pitch it as like, hey, this

987
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 3: is a if you can pick up the phone call,

988
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 3: this is.

989
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 5: No absolutely And you know, everybody, it's kind of like

990
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 5: college here in the sense that your commities are sort

991
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 5: of like you're almost like your majors or your miners.

992
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 5: So if you're on the right committee and you care

993
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 5: about this stuff, you're on Environment and Public Works. That's

994
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 5: that's the Wildlife Committee, Energy Natural Resources, which I'm ranking

995
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 5: member on is Relly, the Public Lands Committee, and so, uh,

996
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 5: if you're talking to folks who are on those committees

997
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 5: in particular about this stuff, they even with all the

998
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 5: big fights over Medicaid and Social Security and what have you, Yeah,

999
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 5: they care and they're they're almost committees for a reason

1000
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 5: because it matters to them.

1001
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: That's fantastic to hear. H is there.

1002
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 3: I know you're you're a busy guy, So we've got

1003
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:47,919
Speaker 3: a wrapper up. But is there something outside of taking

1004
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 3: the trip to DC that individuals can do that will

1005
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 3: allow them to effectively lobby for their interests.

1006
00:58:58,240 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

1007
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 5: What I would urge people to do is tell their

1008
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 5: their genuine story of what they care about, what they're

1009
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 5: concerned about, how they're being impacted right now, tell that

1010
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 5: in a in a short video, and post it on

1011
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 5: your social and I have seen more people speaking out.

1012
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 5: Sometimes it's folks who just got laid off from a

1013
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 5: trail crew. Sometimes it's a park service ranger who was

1014
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 5: there for thirty years and is no longer you know,

1015
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 5: able to do their job in the back country. Whatever

1016
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 5: it is like, tell those stories because those those stories

1017
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 5: have a way of finding finding their way in front

1018
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 5: of individual members of the House and Senate when you're

1019
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 5: you know, going through.

1020
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 2: Your social media.

1021
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:55,439
Speaker 5: Those algorithms are pretty sophisticated and and I think when

1022
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 5: the public really speaks out on a given issue, it

1023
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 5: has a way of finding its way in front of

1024
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 5: members of Congress, whether they want to see it or not.

1025
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 3: It's good to hear everybody certainly has a voice. Sometimes

1026
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 3: it feels like you're throwing it into the void, but

1027
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:16,919
Speaker 3: Senator Martin Heinrich says, they'll hear you anything else.

1028
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 5: Senator thanks, you know, thanks for this platform because this

1029
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 5: is the stuff that brings Americans together. You know, one

1030
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 5: thing we learned during COVID is people really care about

1031
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 5: wildlife and public lands and it's a uniter so let's

1032
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 5: work together on it.

1033
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: Darn right.

1034
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 3: Well, that's all we got for you this week. Thank

1035
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 3: you so much for listening. Remember to write in to

1036
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 3: askcl that's Askcal at the meteater dot com. If you

1037
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 3: have questions for Senator Heinrich, you can send them in

1038
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 3: to us. We'll compile them and get them answered, or

1039
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 3: we'll just have the senator back on and he can

1040
01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 3: answer them himself.

1041
01:00:59,040 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 2: Sounds great.

1042
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: Thanks again, we'll talk to you next week,