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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: I have to ask a couple of blunt questions because

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Speaker 2: I'm very curious if that's okay with you. Of course,

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Speaker 2: so SETI as an institution privately funded. That's a good thing,

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Speaker 2: meaning that there's not a lot of government intervention. Are

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Speaker 2: you afraid one day you'll find some bit of evidence

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Speaker 2: and maybe it's a very compelling piece of evidence in

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Speaker 2: a five star general walks in and says you can't

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Speaker 2: tell anyone.

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Speaker 3: Are you worried that could happen?

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Speaker 4: Nope, Actually I'm not. Ryan. Hey, look, as I mentioned,

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Speaker 4: I think in the first half hour of the show,

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Speaker 4: we've occasionally picked up signals that for a few days

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Speaker 4: we thought, well, maybe this is it right, And you know,

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Speaker 4: I didn't see any five star or any other kind

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Speaker 4: of general walk in. Would have been interesting, would have

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Speaker 4: offered them a drink or something. But you know that

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Speaker 4: hasn't happened because I don't think that the government actually

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Speaker 4: would cover this up. They couldn't cover it up because

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Speaker 4: if you pick up a signal and you're convinced, you've

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Speaker 4: convinced yourself that this signal is a good candidate for

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Speaker 4: being extraterrestrial and being produced by some aliens somewhere on

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Speaker 4: another planet. You know what you would do after checking

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Speaker 4: it out yourself, which would take admittedly maybe a couple

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Speaker 4: of days, but after that, you would, you know, email

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Speaker 4: your buddies in Europe or in Japan or wherever who

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Speaker 4: also have equipment and tell them to check it out too,

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Speaker 4: because you know, you couldn't be sure that it wasn't

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Speaker 4: just some sort of bug in your in your software

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Speaker 4: or your hardware, who knows what. So there's there's no

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Speaker 4: way to keep it secret. Now. You know, the government

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Speaker 4: used to fund this kind of work back in the day.

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Speaker 4: It used to be a massive project that was killed

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Speaker 4: by a senator back well like two decades ago or

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Speaker 4: so so ever since then, our SETI work to find

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Speaker 4: you know, aliens. That's all been privately funded, and that's okay,

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Speaker 4: but you know, it would be better if there were

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Speaker 4: some government funding, I think, because then we could be

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Speaker 4: a little more ambitious in the kind of equipment we

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Speaker 4: built and that sort of.

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Speaker 2: Thing, right, And I aways worry about that. It's hard

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Speaker 2: to tell exactly how government entities would want to put

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Speaker 2: this evidence out there, How would they want to try

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Speaker 2: to spin it to stop mass chaos, because I think

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Speaker 2: in general, there'd be a lot of people, and I

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Speaker 2: think the most common emotion would be fear before excitement,

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Speaker 2: because the idea that we are not alone and the

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Speaker 2: evidence that we are not alone has a lot of

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Speaker 2: well big scientists in the past say it would be

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Speaker 2: better if we didn't try to communicate with some of

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Speaker 2: these outside entities, because our livelihood could be threatened if

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Speaker 2: they found we were here and they weren't as friendly

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Speaker 2: as let's say, the ET movie would portray. So do

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Speaker 2: you ever worry that your research may one day bring

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Speaker 2: the end of the world.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, that would give it a certain Gravii toss.

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Speaker 4: I have to say it would be somehow satisfying to

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Speaker 4: think that my research had led to the end of

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Speaker 4: civilization as we know it. But I don't think that's

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Speaker 4: going to happen. I mean, come on, keep in mind,

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Speaker 4: by the way, this is something that I think a

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Speaker 4: lot of listeners may not be aware of. The search

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Speaker 4: for extraterrestrial intelligence. Yes, we're doing it here in the US,

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Speaker 4: but there are other countries that have done this sort

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Speaker 4: of work and that continue to do this kind of work.

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Speaker 4: So we're not the only game in town, although we're,

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Speaker 4: you know, maybe the biggest game in town. But you know,

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Speaker 4: there are other people who do this. And again, if

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Speaker 4: we were to find a signal that but promising, you know,

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Speaker 4: the first thing you do is you call up people

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Speaker 4: you know in Europe, maybe people at jod Rolled Bank

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Speaker 4: in the United Kingdom and so forth. The people have

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Speaker 4: big antennas and say, look, would you check this out? Right?

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Speaker 4: So they would know about it. I mean, there's no

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Speaker 4: way to keep it secret. And there's no reason to

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Speaker 4: keep it secret, right because if the aliens want to

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Speaker 4: know about us, well, they probably already do if they're

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Speaker 4: close enough, right, because we've been broadcasting into space ever

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Speaker 4: since the Second World War, even before the Second World War.

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Speaker 4: In fact, the strongest signals leaving Earth by the way,

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Speaker 4: our radar not very interesting to listen to, but they

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Speaker 4: could pick that up even if they were one hundred

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Speaker 4: light years away, because we've had radar, well maybe not

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Speaker 4: for a hundred years, but if they were fifty light

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Speaker 4: years away, they could pick that up. They would know

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Speaker 4: we're know we're here. So if you're going to worry

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Speaker 4: about the aliens knowing that we're here, they're going to

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Speaker 4: swoop down onto our planet and you know, somehow ruin

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Speaker 4: your weekend. You can worry about that if you want.

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Speaker 4: But they have done it so far.

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Speaker 2: Right, So is thesumption that the signals you're searching for

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Speaker 2: are intentional, meaning that if you were to scan the

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Speaker 2: skies in a certain area and then scan it again

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Speaker 2: and you still get something from that data, that the

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Speaker 2: thought is there's an intentional signal going out meant to

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Speaker 2: be decoded somewhere else in the universe.

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Speaker 3: Or are you under the assumption that a.

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Speaker 2: Lot of the data, or at least the signals out

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Speaker 2: there are mundane and accidental.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think you're going to have both kinds. Right.

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Speaker 4: We've already mentioned radar here, right, we're broadcasting radar into space,

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Speaker 4: not because anybodybody finds that such an interesting thing to do,

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Speaker 4: unless they're trying to map what's under the clouds of

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Speaker 4: Venus or something like that. But in general, we don't

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Speaker 4: aim our radar out into space. But you know, relly nilly,

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Speaker 4: those signals, those radar signals, which tend to be very

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Speaker 4: powerful by the way, you know, they go out into space,

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Speaker 4: and who knows, we've had radar again since the Second

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Speaker 4: World War, so that's many decades now, and that means

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Speaker 4: there's probably several thousand star systems which could pick up

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Speaker 4: our early radar, and maybe some aliens are on planets

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Speaker 4: around those stars systems and they have good equipment and

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Speaker 4: they've picked up our radar. They don't seem to have

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Speaker 4: done much about it that affects us very much, but

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Speaker 4: they would know that we're here. I think it'd be

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Speaker 4: very difficult for us to keep, you know, our presence quiet.

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Speaker 4: There are people who advocate that, but I don't think

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Speaker 4: there's any way you can do it without shutting down

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Speaker 4: an awful lot of things, like well, i'll just give

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Speaker 4: you an example here. You know, you would also want

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Speaker 4: to shut down the radars at the airports. Now, I

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Speaker 4: don't think you want to do that. You're flying into

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Speaker 4: Los Angeles on a rainy night. Do you really want

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Speaker 4: to shut down all the radars? I don't think you

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Speaker 4: want to do that. So you know, we're making our

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Speaker 4: presence known, and if the aliens are hostile, you know,

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Speaker 4: they might learn about us and come down here and

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Speaker 4: you know, just I don't know, abduct everybody, take them

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Speaker 4: to who knows.

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Speaker 2: Where I think the perception, and this has been put

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Speaker 2: out there in the past, is that our television and

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Speaker 2: radio signals go out too, So oh boy, there may

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Speaker 2: be alien life forms out there watching I Love Lucy

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Speaker 2: or listening to classic art bell broadcasts as soon as

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Speaker 2: the signal reaches them and they, let's say assume could

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Speaker 2: somehow receive that transmission, trans code it, and then enjoy

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Speaker 2: it for themselves. Do television and radio signals make it

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Speaker 2: out to space or is it just the radar for

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Speaker 2: the most part, Well no.

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Speaker 4: I mean radar is really just radio, so yeah, no,

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Speaker 4: radio does, at least high frequency radio, so that's FM radio,

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Speaker 4: AM radio. I mean this is coast to coast AM,

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Speaker 4: so maybe we're not communicating very effectively with the aliens.

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Speaker 4: AM radio tends not to make it through the ionosphere,

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Speaker 4: the upper layers of our own atmosphere, but everything yelse

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Speaker 4: does and goes right through right so you know, yeah,

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Speaker 4: they could be watching I Love Lucy. That's the canonical example.

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Speaker 4: They may not get the jokes. It's possible they mist

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Speaker 4: understand the encoding of the signal, and so you know,

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Speaker 4: I Love Lucy appears upside down on their televisions. Who knows,

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Speaker 4: but you know, they could see that, and what would

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Speaker 4: they learn from that? I mean, they wouldn't get the

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Speaker 4: jokes because they probably wouldn't speak colloquial American English, but

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Speaker 4: they would know that there's somebody down here who can

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Speaker 4: build a you know, a transmitter, and so that's intelligence

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Speaker 4: and they might find that interesting to know.

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Speaker 2: What would you like to be at least as an

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Speaker 2: ability to give the rest of the universe and understanding

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Speaker 2: of what humans are all about. Have you thought about

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Speaker 2: the signal you would like to send to give a

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Speaker 2: first impression of Earth?

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Speaker 4: Well? People have. I don't think about that much because

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Speaker 4: I figure we're doing it anyhow, right with our television's

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Speaker 4: that's telling them something about what we're like. I don't

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Speaker 4: know if you considered a good representation or a bad one,

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Speaker 4: but in any case, you know, it's fairly honest. But

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Speaker 4: there are people who, you know, put messages on some

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Speaker 4: of our spacecraft. Now that was mostly as a kind

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Speaker 4: of a pr thing. People in Nassex sort of liked

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Speaker 4: the idea of putting, you know, a record on a

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Speaker 4: spacecraft that kind of thing, or messages and even transmitting messages.

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Speaker 4: There's the famous Aricibo message that was sent out from

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Speaker 4: the Aercibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico. That was back

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Speaker 4: in the nineteen seventies, the mid nineteen seventies, and that

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Speaker 4: was that's a very powerful transmitter they had down there

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Speaker 4: was two mega wats, two million watts, so that signal

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Speaker 4: was pretty strong. And what did they broadcast, Well, they

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Speaker 4: just broadcast a simple pictogram, if you will, a very

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Speaker 4: crude drawing showing something about us, what we look like,

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Speaker 4: you know, what our solar system is like, a little

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Speaker 4: bit about the biochemistry of life here on earth. Those

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Speaker 4: are all things that maybe the aliens would find mildly amusing.

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Speaker 4: So that's what we've done. But you know, there are people,

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Speaker 4: I know people actually they're not in the physical sciences

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Speaker 4: and the social scientists who have tried to devise languages

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Speaker 4: that would be sort of universal languages, and you know,

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Speaker 4: better than Esperanto, a language that even aliens could understand.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you have to give them a lot of

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Speaker 4: stuff that they might be able to figure it out,

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Speaker 4: in the anticipation that eventually we might find some use

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Speaker 4: for that language in communicating with the aliens. But I honestly,

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Speaker 4: I don't think you need to do any of that personally.

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Speaker 4: I think that, you know, just continuing to support network

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Speaker 4: television or something like that is probably all you have

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Speaker 4: to do to communicate something to the aliens that they

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Speaker 4: might find interesting.

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Speaker 2: I like the idea that a powerful transmitter has a

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Speaker 2: chance of getting out there. And I think about what

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Speaker 2: Wolfman Jack did in Mexico, and they built this wild

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Speaker 2: transmitter that was super powerful to reach the entire United States,

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Speaker 2: and I think, Wow, something like that is pretty powerful.

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Speaker 3: What if Wolfman Jack.

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Speaker 2: Was the ambassador of Earth and that's just the first

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Speaker 2: thing they caught up on, wouldn't that be something? Are

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Speaker 2: the skies in the United States friendly for this type

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Speaker 2: of research or ideally, let's say Australia or Africa some

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Speaker 2: places there do they have better I guess satellite skies

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Speaker 2: to study these type of incoming transmissions.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. By the way, I think that was x ERB,

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Speaker 4: the Big X right exactly right.

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Speaker 2: Well, I remember I read Wolfman Jack's autobiography. He said

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Speaker 2: their transmitter was powered by a generator the size of

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Speaker 2: a train engine. Because there was no regulations in Mexico,

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Speaker 2: they could do whatever they want. So man, did they

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Speaker 2: pump out the wattage down there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I kind of remember that. Well, but

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Speaker 4: what was your question there?

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Speaker 2: So here in the United States, you have your satellites

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Speaker 2: in California, and I think about some of these, like Australia,

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Speaker 2: for example, you may have more wilderness, which may give

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Speaker 2: you better opportunities to filter out some of the interference

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Speaker 2: that you would have here in the United States. Do

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Speaker 2: some of these other countries and the way they're observing

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Speaker 2: the skies actually have advantages over the United States or

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Speaker 2: is it pretty much the same?

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Speaker 4: Well, keep in mind we're using radio telescopes, right, so

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Speaker 4: we're tuned into the radio part of the spectrum. And

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Speaker 4: the fact that the sky's I mean we observed during

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Speaker 4: the day, which you couldn't do with an ordinary mirror

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Speaker 4: earned lens optical telescope, right because the sky is too bright.

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Speaker 4: But when you're talking about radio telescopes, they can work

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Speaker 4: day and night. And yeah, Australia has one advantage. I mean,

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Speaker 4: we've done observations in Australia, by the way, and the

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Speaker 4: advantage of Australia has there aren't many people there, right,

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Speaker 4: and consequently there there you know, aren't a whole lot

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Speaker 4: of radar stations or diathermy machines or other things that

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Speaker 4: make radio noise that would interfere with the search right

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Speaker 4: by just you know, producing a lot of background noise.

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Speaker 4: So that would be the advantage of Australia. The other

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Speaker 4: advantage of Australia, by the way, aside from you know,

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Speaker 4: the food, the other advantage is that it's in the

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Speaker 4: Southern Hemisphere, and you know, there's a whole big chunk

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Speaker 4: of the universe that we can't see here in the

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Speaker 4: Northern hemisphere because the Earth, you know, sort of blocks

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Speaker 4: are viewed. So if you want to look at the

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Speaker 4: entire sky visible from Earth, you have to you know,

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Speaker 4: also do some sort of observing in the Southern Hemisphere,

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Speaker 4: and Australia has the equipment to do that. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: they're doing that, but it isn't because the skies are

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Speaker 4: clear down in Australia. It's only because they're fewer people

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Speaker 4: and you know, less electronic noise.

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