1
00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,000
Speaker 1: I'm Brent Forrester. I was a writer and producer at

2
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:19,279
Speaker 1: the Office. Hello everyone, and thank you so much for

3
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,760
Speaker 1: joining me again. This is the Office Deep Dive, and

4
00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,840
Speaker 1: as always I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. Today we

5
00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:33,360
Speaker 1: are continuing our mini dive, if you will, into the

6
00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,160
Speaker 1: Writer's Room with the one and only Brent Forrester. Brent

7
00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,680
Speaker 1: joined the writing staff in season three, which, as he

8
00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,200
Speaker 1: talks about in this conversation, this was not an easy

9
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,200
Speaker 1: thing to do. I mean, there were some real heavy

10
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,920
Speaker 1: hitters in the writer's room at that point. So how

11
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,880
Speaker 1: did he survive? Well? With the help of an army

12
00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:02,440
Speaker 1: survival manual. That's right, he used an army survival manual

13
00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,880
Speaker 1: to survive the writer's room at the Office, and eventually

14
00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,720
Speaker 1: he became a real key part of the team and

15
00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:15,399
Speaker 1: wrote some amazing episodes, including one that several of the

16
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,319
Speaker 1: other writers consider to have in it the best moment

17
00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,199
Speaker 1: in the entire show. I'm not talking about the chili scene,

18
00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:28,240
Speaker 1: but but Brent did direct that scene, all of which

19
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,720
Speaker 1: we talked about in great detail very shortly. I am

20
00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,520
Speaker 1: so glad I got to sit down with him, because

21
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,520
Speaker 1: he is so smart and thoughtful, and he was super

22
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,240
Speaker 1: candid about the writer's room, both the good and the bad.

23
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,720
Speaker 1: I know you guys are gonna absolutely love this one.

24
00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:55,680
Speaker 1: So here he is Mr Brent Forrester Bubble. I love it,

25
00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:03,560
Speaker 1: bub bubb this quicker cook at every moon lift over

26
00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:20,600
Speaker 1: from the Nutty. Oh yeah, what's up? Oh my goodness,

27
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:25,600
Speaker 1: it's so good to see you. Oh my gosh. I

28
00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,680
Speaker 1: created the circumstance of office endless office reunion for yourself,

29
00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:40,880
Speaker 1: everybody from Laverne, you and Kevin Riley and everybody. Everyone

30
00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,480
Speaker 1: has been amazing, how generous people have been. And yeah,

31
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:50,520
Speaker 1: we're all hams to talk about it exactly. Ever, never

32
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,880
Speaker 1: underestimate the power of just untapped narcissism. I would say,

33
00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:01,760
Speaker 1: how is Base Force going? Oh so fun? I mean how?

34
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,520
Speaker 1: It stars Steve Correll and John Malkovich as the comedy

35
00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:11,080
Speaker 1: pairing at the center. Greg Daniels wrote the pilot with Steve,

36
00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,800
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, Greg's influences is all through it,

37
00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,839
Speaker 1: as is Steve's. You know, he has this interesting sensibility

38
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,960
Speaker 1: which is not always what you would expect, you know,

39
00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 1: the direction he went in the office with naturalism, which

40
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,880
Speaker 1: is so great. He also has a silly side which

41
00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,520
Speaker 1: is appropriate to a show like this. That's very cool.

42
00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,839
Speaker 1: Now your podcast, by the way, do you guys, are

43
00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 1: you like Mark Marin level let's get emotionally self revelatory?

44
00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,880
Speaker 1: Are you more history of the podcast? It's definitely neither

45
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:51,480
Speaker 1: of those. Um, I mean how I'm viewing it well,

46
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,960
Speaker 1: I truly am actively seeking the answer to some questions

47
00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,160
Speaker 1: that I have about what went on and how things

48
00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:05,800
Speaker 1: were constructed. And it's anything with memory, something's I firmly

49
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,120
Speaker 1: believe I remember, and then as I talked to people,

50
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:16,240
Speaker 1: I realized I remember incorrectly or there's different perspectives on that.

51
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, I I think for me more than anything,

52
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,359
Speaker 1: it's just conversation. Well we should we should win then,

53
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 1: because it's my favorite thing. Every time I've been in

54
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,400
Speaker 1: this kind of situation, there hasn't been enough time. Weeks,

55
00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:35,000
Speaker 1: time we have, we have time. So, um, prior to

56
00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,400
Speaker 1: the office, what were you doing immediately before you got

57
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:43,799
Speaker 1: brought off? Um? Well, you know, my career started way

58
00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,359
Speaker 1: back in the in the tailing dying and of the

59
00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,479
Speaker 1: multi caam era. I got my first job on a

60
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,920
Speaker 1: show called Nurses, which was a multi caam show put

61
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,760
Speaker 1: on by with Thomas Harris. They had done the Golden Girls,

62
00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,159
Speaker 1: and you know, there were these factories of multicam in

63
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,320
Speaker 1: the late eighties and early nineties, and uh, you know,

64
00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,640
Speaker 1: so I come out of there then I had been

65
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,680
Speaker 1: on the Simpsons is how and you Greg, now was

66
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,719
Speaker 1: that Susan Susan Harris? I hear it was your first

67
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,200
Speaker 1: sort of mentor yea time. Yeah, you know. I had

68
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,400
Speaker 1: actually gone to high school with her son. And when

69
00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,839
Speaker 1: I came out of college, I had literally Brian trained

70
00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,800
Speaker 1: myself to be a short story writer, and that I

71
00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,360
Speaker 1: didn't realize there was no money in short stories. I mean,

72
00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,479
Speaker 1: if you take it even farther back, I was raised

73
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,599
Speaker 1: in a house with no television. My mom hated TV

74
00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,359
Speaker 1: and would not allow it in the house. Yeah, and

75
00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,040
Speaker 1: so I had no television and I picked that up

76
00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,760
Speaker 1: as a habit, not watching television. And I continued in

77
00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,760
Speaker 1: that habit through college. So when I got out of college,

78
00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,680
Speaker 1: I had trained myself to be an expert in a

79
00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,520
Speaker 1: dying art form. Nobody told me that short stories weren't

80
00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,800
Speaker 1: popular anymore, because my mom had prevented me from having

81
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:59,640
Speaker 1: any contact with modern culture. Anyway. The relevance is that

82
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,359
Speaker 1: I suit to college and thought, oh, man, can I

83
00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,279
Speaker 1: be a writer of some kind? It just so happened.

84
00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,159
Speaker 1: I only knew one person who was a professional writer.

85
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,120
Speaker 1: It was Susan Harris, the creator of The Golden Girls.

86
00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:16,320
Speaker 1: I lucked into mentorship of sorts with one of the

87
00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:22,120
Speaker 1: greatest uh natural dialogue writers ever, Susan Harris. So she

88
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,640
Speaker 1: helped you get the job on Nurses, gave it to me. Yeah, yeah,

89
00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,599
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah. You know, her son had a lot

90
00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,440
Speaker 1: of friends who wanted to be TV writers. Um, to

91
00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,120
Speaker 1: my knowledge, I was the only one that she ever

92
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,400
Speaker 1: gave a job to. And I think the reason was

93
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,400
Speaker 1: she just told me how to write a spec script

94
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,960
Speaker 1: and she said, right about what is difficult for you,

95
00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,520
Speaker 1: even painful, and trust that it will come out funny.

96
00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,159
Speaker 1: And I've never heard better advice in comedy writing. And

97
00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,279
Speaker 1: I tried to do that in the form of a

98
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:59,400
Speaker 1: spec blossom Awesome. That was my winning spec that got

99
00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,560
Speaker 1: me in the district blossom blossom. Yeah. Okay, so you

100
00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,320
Speaker 1: work on Nurses, then you work on a number of

101
00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,600
Speaker 1: other shows. Yeah, well I was. I was through with her. No,

102
00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:11,440
Speaker 1: I was, actually I was fired from Nurses with the

103
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,600
Speaker 1: entire staff. They just replaced the staff. It was. It

104
00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,480
Speaker 1: was a pretty bad show, even at the height of

105
00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 1: bad television, and they just said, we have to replace

106
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,600
Speaker 1: these writers. I'd only worked there about, you know, four months,

107
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,120
Speaker 1: just long enough to uh see that there was this

108
00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,920
Speaker 1: thing that was the punch up writer, and there was

109
00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,480
Speaker 1: this reverence for the writer who could throw jokes and

110
00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,280
Speaker 1: comedy into a script and that rewrite process. So I

111
00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,440
Speaker 1: saved my little amount of nurses money and stretched it

112
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,800
Speaker 1: out for like a year and just tried to teach

113
00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,720
Speaker 1: myself joke writing and display what I learned in the

114
00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,640
Speaker 1: form of a spec Rosianne script. And you know, that's

115
00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,000
Speaker 1: the writer's life is like a lot of time writing

116
00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,400
Speaker 1: what you hope is a spectacular spec script. And I

117
00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,320
Speaker 1: happened to get that Roseanne in the hands of a

118
00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,960
Speaker 1: young comedian who was becoming a producer named Judd Apatow.

119
00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,239
Speaker 1: Apatao was twenty four. He had uh met Ben Stiller

120
00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,680
Speaker 1: in lined on Elvis Costello concert and they the stories

121
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,000
Speaker 1: they just kind of hudsput each other into, like selling

122
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,760
Speaker 1: a TV show. What's your name, Ben Stiller? What do

123
00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,160
Speaker 1: you do? I'm an actor? Yeah? Who are you? Joe?

124
00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,560
Speaker 1: You comedian? Right? Stuff? Oh yeah, that's so the show. Okay,

125
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,320
Speaker 1: let's do and they went to Fox show Wow. And

126
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,400
Speaker 1: so you got a job on that through the Rose

127
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,000
Speaker 1: and inspect Yeah, and then you you end up winning

128
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 1: an Emmy. Yeah. Yeah, it was incredible. I mean it

129
00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,320
Speaker 1: was really Bob Odenkirk is why we won that Emmy.

130
00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,640
Speaker 1: You know, he was the head writer of the show.

131
00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,960
Speaker 1: He uh also created Mr Show with Bob and Dave.

132
00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,440
Speaker 1: You know, for sure, one of the greatest sketch shows ever.

133
00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,559
Speaker 1: UM and Bob was the head writer and under his

134
00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 1: influence of a group of totally untested writers, won the

135
00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:53,240
Speaker 1: Emmy for Best Comedy Writing UH that year. And you know,

136
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,080
Speaker 1: for me at that point, I had a Emmy and

137
00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,400
Speaker 1: about like a year of television writing experience and then

138
00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,839
Speaker 1: they put me on The Simpsons and that's where I

139
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,960
Speaker 1: met Greg and was truly tested. So you worked on

140
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,840
Speaker 1: the Simpsons for what five years? No? Actually I worked

141
00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,640
Speaker 1: two full years to full years. I had a four

142
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,400
Speaker 1: year contract and I bailed after two years, going to

143
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,360
Speaker 1: the craziest self destructive moves in a weird way. But

144
00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,000
Speaker 1: I was young. I was in my twenties. I've worked

145
00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,040
Speaker 1: there for two years. I felt like I've learned everything

146
00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,320
Speaker 1: there is to learn about writing for the Simpsons, and

147
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,360
Speaker 1: so I quit and uh had a memorable like had

148
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,320
Speaker 1: to have a showdown with Jim Brooks where they called

149
00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,640
Speaker 1: me into his office and and Brooks, Uh, he said, hey, man,

150
00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,480
Speaker 1: I hear you're on strike. Man, do you know Brooks

151
00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,080
Speaker 1: at all? No? I mean I've met him, seeing him,

152
00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,600
Speaker 1: but I don't know him. No. Well, I don't think

153
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,000
Speaker 1: he would know me for sure, but we all worship him.

154
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,440
Speaker 1: He is like one of the Mount Rushmore guys of

155
00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,640
Speaker 1: our medium. And uh, he's a genius and he's got

156
00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,400
Speaker 1: kind of a hippie vibe. But somehow I enraged him

157
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,439
Speaker 1: by saying this thing that writers all knew to say,

158
00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,560
Speaker 1: which was, hey, I don't think you'd want to have

159
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,200
Speaker 1: a writer in the room who doesn't want to be there.

160
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,400
Speaker 1: We were always told, like amongst each other, that you

161
00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,240
Speaker 1: could get out of a contract if you just simply

162
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,760
Speaker 1: said that. So I said it to Brooks. He got enraged. Man,

163
00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,559
Speaker 1: his beard was shaking, and he said, don't go down

164
00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,719
Speaker 1: that road. Don't float that balloon. I've never heard that

165
00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,880
Speaker 1: phrase in my life. Float that balloon, don't float that balloon.

166
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,280
Speaker 1: It might be like a World War two reference, like,

167
00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. If you meet him, please tell him

168
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,280
Speaker 1: I'm sorry and asking what that means. Okay, but you meet,

169
00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,079
Speaker 1: you meet Greg. Yeah, you meet Greg while you're there,

170
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,640
Speaker 1: and eventually you start working on King of the Hill

171
00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,640
Speaker 1: with Greg. Yeah, that's right. So he liked you, he did,

172
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,120
Speaker 1: he did. Uh. Greg was like one of those um

173
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,240
Speaker 1: senior writers on The Simpsons, at least in my view.

174
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,600
Speaker 1: He was one of those Harvard guys who was clearly

175
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,480
Speaker 1: a genius. The whole staff was Harvard guys when I

176
00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,160
Speaker 1: showed up there. Uh, you know, I was sort of

177
00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,000
Speaker 1: in the second way if there was the Harvard guys

178
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,560
Speaker 1: who created the show, and then after four years half

179
00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,320
Speaker 1: of them went off to do their own thing, and

180
00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,120
Speaker 1: so all these slots opened up, and I got in

181
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,319
Speaker 1: one of those slots. Now Greg was already there, and

182
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,560
Speaker 1: you know, Greg was obviously just a great writer of

183
00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,880
Speaker 1: of this show. He wrote some of the best episodes ever.

184
00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,080
Speaker 1: Bart Sells his soul is still just I mean, untoppable

185
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,840
Speaker 1: and very greg. You know, because Greg liked that kind

186
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,760
Speaker 1: of telling, a yarn sort of storytelling. He was even

187
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,000
Speaker 1: then heading in the direction of naturalistic storytelling that you

188
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,840
Speaker 1: see in King of the Hill and then The Office.

189
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,319
Speaker 1: It's funny because my perspective is slightly different. I remember,

190
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,440
Speaker 1: I'm sure you and I had this conversation, especially in

191
00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,280
Speaker 1: later seasons, where we would read a script and we

192
00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,120
Speaker 1: would start looking at it and I would go up

193
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,920
Speaker 1: to the writer's room or have conversations with clusters of

194
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:49,120
Speaker 1: you saying, guys, guys, I am not a cartoon. There

195
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 1: are physical things that you are writing right now that

196
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,000
Speaker 1: my body is incapable of doing. So it's it's I

197
00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,199
Speaker 1: can't go from here to here in no time like

198
00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,280
Speaker 1: you can in a our tune. I always yeah, there

199
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,439
Speaker 1: was definitely some Homer Simpson elements. That's funny. Well, you

200
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,200
Speaker 1: you know, you hit on a key thing that writers

201
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,600
Speaker 1: have as a deficit. You know, we are not out

202
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:17,200
Speaker 1: there physically acting. We're all in our little minds and

203
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 1: you know, we're rewarded for what pops on the page,

204
00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,120
Speaker 1: and so you know, we violate these rules whereas an actor,

205
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,240
Speaker 1: how what are you thinking. We're like, we're just trying

206
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,680
Speaker 1: to preserve our jobs by making the other guy in

207
00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,520
Speaker 1: the room laugh. And we you know, if it breaks reality,

208
00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,600
Speaker 1: we just we can't be bothered. Right. And so by

209
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,800
Speaker 1: the time you came in in season three, were you

210
00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:43,160
Speaker 1: watching um, were you watching The Office? Seen some although

211
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,840
Speaker 1: I continued my habit of not watching much TV until recently,

212
00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,960
Speaker 1: where I've really forced myself to become a consumer. So

213
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,520
Speaker 1: I was aware of it for sure, because the comedy

214
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,280
Speaker 1: writers were aware of it. The comedy writers and taste

215
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,720
Speaker 1: makers were aware of the British show, and we were

216
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,920
Speaker 1: aware of the Americans for sure. And then, of course,

217
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,040
Speaker 1: you know, I knew Paul Lieberstein from King of the Hill.

218
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:06,920
Speaker 1: He was a writer on King of the Hill, and

219
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,800
Speaker 1: so you know, Paul and I hang out and you know,

220
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,480
Speaker 1: we'd go for a for a jog and he would

221
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,520
Speaker 1: tell me about the show he was working on. I

222
00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,720
Speaker 1: do remember when Paul said to me, all I want

223
00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 1: in my career is for this show to go on.

224
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,959
Speaker 1: That was season two. He had that feeling. I've never

225
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:28,720
Speaker 1: heard him say that about anything he'd ever worked on. Wow. Okay,

226
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,160
Speaker 1: so you came in season three. Yeah, do you remember

227
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,360
Speaker 1: anything about walking into the writer's room you knew some

228
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,360
Speaker 1: of the people there about Yeah, Well, you know, writer's

229
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,520
Speaker 1: rooms are very competitive, right, It's a very competitive environment.

230
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,360
Speaker 1: We are trying to impress each other that we're smart

231
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,640
Speaker 1: and talented, and we have a method, which is UH

232
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,200
Speaker 1: time to say something funny and who can do it?

233
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,120
Speaker 1: And so I definitely remember the first day I walked

234
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,240
Speaker 1: into the office writer's room, Mike Sure was there, uh

235
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,880
Speaker 1: and uh Paul liebres Gen Silata, and Uh. I knew

236
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:04,559
Speaker 1: it was going to be brutal. So I had brought

237
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,880
Speaker 1: in a prop. I brought in an Army Survival Manual,

238
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:09,760
Speaker 1: and I just had it with me. I thought, that's

239
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:11,520
Speaker 1: supposed to be kind of funny to call out the subtext,

240
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,600
Speaker 1: right like, I mean, this writer's room where nobody knows

241
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,840
Speaker 1: me or wants me on this show that they created.

242
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,480
Speaker 1: And so I'll have this Army Survival Manual and in

243
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,360
Speaker 1: it there's an acronym that the army has U S

244
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,480
Speaker 1: U R V I V A L. And each of

245
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,440
Speaker 1: those letters has a thing you're supposed to do s

246
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,960
Speaker 1: you know, to survey the situation. You understand the risks.

247
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,200
Speaker 1: It's impossible in a survival situation you would die. Just

248
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,720
Speaker 1: try to remember what the second V one of them

249
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,840
Speaker 1: is vanquished fear and panic. Okay, I mean you never

250
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,720
Speaker 1: say vanquished in your life. I love though, that's amazing. Well,

251
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,800
Speaker 1: it was my It was my way of surviving. I figure,

252
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:51,280
Speaker 1: if it gets tighten here, I'm gonna have a whole

253
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,760
Speaker 1: bit I can do. Right. I never busted that out,

254
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,040
Speaker 1: but I do remember it got contentious on the first day.

255
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 1: It was, you know, just one of those kind of

256
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,720
Speaker 1: ego things. We were arguing over some plot points. Should

257
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,120
Speaker 1: the story go this way or shouldn't go that way?

258
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,120
Speaker 1: And so we just got into some disagreement and I

259
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,320
Speaker 1: just went into an English accent. Why would you do that?

260
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,680
Speaker 1: Did it help or did it hurt? Absolutely helped, I

261
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,320
Speaker 1: mean it diffused everything. And then on some level it

262
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:21,240
Speaker 1: kind of says we're playing a game of comedy performative cleverness,

263
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:44,000
Speaker 1: and this is just a move in that dimension. Do

264
00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,040
Speaker 1: you consider Gregg a teacher? Oh for sure. Yeah, he's

265
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,720
Speaker 1: a friend of mine forever now. And we were in

266
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,680
Speaker 1: the trenches at the Simpsons ten am to ten pm

267
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,760
Speaker 1: every single day, so you know, we're all buddies. But

268
00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:00,800
Speaker 1: for sure, big time. He uh someone someone told us

269
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,400
Speaker 1: this exercise that he had something that if you were

270
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 1: having trouble breaking stories, and he called it unlikely duos,

271
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,160
Speaker 1: And there were note cards on the wall with all

272
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,360
Speaker 1: the character's names, and the idea was to pick two

273
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,080
Speaker 1: characters that you would not necessarily associate with each other

274
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 1: together and then write a story on that. I think

275
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,760
Speaker 1: that's always a great method. Um Early on, back on

276
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,080
Speaker 1: Nurses for me, I asked one of the senior writers

277
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,080
Speaker 1: there what makes a story? And the guy called me

278
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,840
Speaker 1: into his office. His name was Bruce Ferber. He closed

279
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,040
Speaker 1: the blinds, shut the door, locked it, and he said,

280
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:41,160
Speaker 1: a story is usually about two people, and then he

281
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,320
Speaker 1: unlocked the door and made me leave. It sounds so

282
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 1: a common place, but it's actually the key. Yeah, that's

283
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,280
Speaker 1: what's great is what's an unusual pairing. That's how I

284
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,320
Speaker 1: got my first Simpsons episode was I paired Homer versus

285
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,080
Speaker 1: Patty and Selma. It had never been done before, so

286
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,760
Speaker 1: I got an episode. But for sure, on any show,

287
00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,880
Speaker 1: you know what, two characters have never been in a

288
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,240
Speaker 1: already together? Do that right? Well, that's genius. It's the

289
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:09,280
Speaker 1: small attention to details. When you know the characters and

290
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,680
Speaker 1: how the characters would behave you almost don't need anything

291
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,480
Speaker 1: more than this. I was told that during the testing

292
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,000
Speaker 1: of the show with the Gems and the Dwights, The

293
00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:25,639
Speaker 1: direction from Greg to the actors was very simply, Uh, Jim,

294
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:30,720
Speaker 1: bring Dwight a glass of water, right, and then what happens? Right?

295
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,480
Speaker 1: You know Dwight is going to be skeptical, right because

296
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,760
Speaker 1: you know, you know, he's afraid that Jim has done

297
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,200
Speaker 1: something to the water. And I felt like you guys

298
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,560
Speaker 1: did such a great job of of that, of studying

299
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,480
Speaker 1: the character's behavior and how each character would behave in

300
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,160
Speaker 1: a given situation. Now you've you've hit it on the head.

301
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,160
Speaker 1: And if you notice, uh, ask Greg what his favorite

302
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,760
Speaker 1: television show is of all time. I remember he was

303
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:58,920
Speaker 1: being interviewed and he sat there for an hour trying

304
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:00,320
Speaker 1: to think, you know, and asking the write is what

305
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,040
Speaker 1: they thought? It was? Larry Sanders and uh, Judd Apatao.

306
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,040
Speaker 1: If you ask him, he'll give you the same answer.

307
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,919
Speaker 1: I worked with Judd on a show called Love we

308
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,680
Speaker 1: did for Netflix. I was the head writer there and

309
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 1: I remember we delivered scripts to Judd. The first four scripts.

310
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,760
Speaker 1: I thought they were good. They were real clever and funny,

311
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,200
Speaker 1: and he was so bummed and he as he tried

312
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,040
Speaker 1: to articulate what it was, he said, Wat's the Larry

313
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:26,200
Speaker 1: Sanders show. And by the end, we had a a phrase,

314
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:31,120
Speaker 1: a motto, and it was behavior over banter. I never

315
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,000
Speaker 1: forgot it. Man. You know, you don't have to have

316
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:38,120
Speaker 1: clever word play if the characters are in an interesting behavior. Now,

317
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,440
Speaker 1: I can tell you two behaviors that are funny for actors.

318
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,160
Speaker 1: One is lying, always funny. The other generally his seduction.

319
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,160
Speaker 1: Unless the person I suppose is really hot, it's gonna

320
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,199
Speaker 1: be kind of funny. So I wondered for you as

321
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,159
Speaker 1: a comic performer. You know, you're talking about the glass

322
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,480
Speaker 1: of water thing, which is complex behavior. Are there other

323
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,320
Speaker 1: categories of behavior that are funny for you to perform? Oh,

324
00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 1: that's a very interesting question. Um. For me, the biggest

325
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:11,399
Speaker 1: laughs that I ever remember was when Holly was told

326
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,119
Speaker 1: that Kevin was slow. That's that was my recollection, and

327
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,960
Speaker 1: people went sort of bonkers about it. And I think

328
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,719
Speaker 1: the reason why is because it was a very simple

329
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 1: joke that is set up by years of history and

330
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,479
Speaker 1: knowing the character. And as soon as you hear the

331
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,119
Speaker 1: setup of that, you know instantly that she will believe

332
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 1: it and that there will be confusion between her and

333
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,720
Speaker 1: Kevin that could play out as long as we wanted

334
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,679
Speaker 1: it to. I think that when you truly, when you

335
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,600
Speaker 1: have the time to create a character and there's an

336
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 1: expectation from an audience on how that character would respond

337
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 1: the anticipation of that and delivering that or the opposite

338
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,320
Speaker 1: of what the expectation is. To me, those things are

339
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:05,120
Speaker 1: very funny. Wow, that's gold. Um you at one point

340
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 1: said this. It has been said by wiser artists than

341
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,639
Speaker 1: me that the more personal you make your writing, the

342
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,840
Speaker 1: more personal it will become. Um, do you feel like

343
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:19,680
Speaker 1: you right? Personally? I aspire to for sure. Our medium

344
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,120
Speaker 1: is very interesting because it's collaborative, and I am hired

345
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 1: to execute the vision of somebody above me. And you know,

346
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 1: I've come to think of the writer's room, uh as

347
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: an art project. The the show runner is the artist

348
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 1: of the show. That's the Picasso, and we're all there

349
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 1: to sort of make his or her vision come to life.

350
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,919
Speaker 1: Having said that, when you get an individual episode at

351
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: a certain point, they send you off, and that's when

352
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,199
Speaker 1: the art form becomes yours and you really try to

353
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 1: pour yourself into it. So on the Office, I always

354
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 1: did try to find what was personal about it for

355
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 1: me in that episode. Um, So you join in season three,

356
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,400
Speaker 1: we've got this, uh Stanford story, Jim is away and

357
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 1: your first episode that you wrote was the Merger Um,

358
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 1: which was about the branches coming together. Are really them

359
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 1: being folded into Scranton, But nonetheless you have new people

360
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 1: coming in. Was there anything about your personal experience entering

361
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 1: this show or entering the writer's room that mirrors some

362
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 1: of the Stanford people coming over? Oh? Yeah, I think

363
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: it's very common in any dynamic. Uh, if you have

364
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 1: a workplace and somebody new comes in, there's gonna be

365
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 1: a feeling of like we're the old guard, right. Um.

366
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 1: That was always true in every writer's room I've ever

367
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: been in. I know it was true. I shouldn't say

368
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,120
Speaker 1: I know, but I could feel it in the actor's

369
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 1: new actors coming into the office. Of course, there's gonna

370
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 1: be a period of almost testing. I would think, you

371
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 1: know that that goes on subconsciously. I've never met a

372
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 1: nicer group of people than the actors on the office.

373
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 1: But as professionals, there's this sense of, Hey, we're trying

374
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 1: to do something at the highest level. You can you

375
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 1: step in and do this? Um, So I wouldn't surprise

376
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: me that the the new actors felt really challenged when

377
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: they when they first came in. Yeah, there's a weird

378
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 1: sort of dichotomy that existed on the show, right, So

379
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 1: when you think of the office, it's really about the bullpen.

380
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: It's about the same group of people that exist in

381
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: this same place over nine years. But of course when

382
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: you just back up a little bit, it's really not true.

383
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: And I feel like you guys did a great job

384
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: of creating energy by infusing that stasis with new people

385
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: or you know, even making Jim go away. That creates

386
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,120
Speaker 1: a different environment. Um, I thought that you guys did

387
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 1: a really great job in keeping that energy while still

388
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: maintaining the feeling that nothing is changing. Brilliantly said, I mean,

389
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: I think the lion share of the credit probably goes

390
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 1: to Greg and his three dimensional chess that he plays

391
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 1: with this line, I remember Greg had figured out that

392
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 1: TV shows should have arcs before anybody did you know

393
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: TV historically you're watching individual episodes that could literally be

394
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: shuffled in syndication. They were designed to be unrelated to

395
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:20,239
Speaker 1: each other. And Greg recognized that arcing out was the

396
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: new way of doing things. He was reading Game of

397
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 1: Thrones and and the Game of Thrones started airing and

398
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: he's like, oh my god, they're benefiting from the fact

399
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: that they know where they're going long term, and suddenly

400
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: he was applying this very archy mentality to the show. Yeah,

401
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: one of the other writers was talking to me about

402
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 1: um that there were many arcs, medium arcs, and longer arcs. Right, So,

403
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: like the Charles Minor storyline, for example, that was a

404
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: set arcs six episodes or whatever it was. And then some,

405
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: especially the relationship type arcs, there would be sort of

406
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: a plan and if that wasn't creating the kind of

407
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: energy you wanted, then it would just sort of go away, right,

408
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: or if it was, then it would sort of pick

409
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: up again. But it was always sort of intended to

410
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: be at least some sort of arc. Yeah. Well, what's

411
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,919
Speaker 1: interesting about those romantic long term arcs. We discovered that

412
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 1: you didn't have to advance them every episode, that they

413
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: could just stick around and then six episodes later they

414
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: could advance. And then, of course we had this crazy

415
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: turn in season nine where we were gonna split Jim

416
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: and Pam up, and the audience hated it so much

417
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 1: we just bailed on that, uh, kept them you know together, right, Yeah,

418
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 1: how much were you all influenced by what you were

419
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: reading or experiencing from fans. I personally never got online.

420
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: I still am not on any social media. You know,

421
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: I'm catching up to television give me one medium at

422
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: the time. But people did, for sure, especially the early

423
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: years of the Office coincided with the early years of

424
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: big time internet feedback, and it first sure influenced the show.

425
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: I bet somebody on this podcast has mentioned that they

426
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: were reading online comments and it's skewed the gym pam

427
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: thing massively because who writes comments online. Apparently it's disproportionately

428
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: romantic lonely hearts, and that's really what they wanted to see, right, Um,

429
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: the history of television primarily has existed. It has been

430
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: pointed out to me as the central characters are the

431
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: young lovers, right, uh, Mary Tyler Moore Show, or you know,

432
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: really even Cheers, right, I mean, the central storyline is

433
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: Sam and Diane. Most of those shows have the crazy

434
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: uncle or the crazy boss in the background that comes in,

435
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: gets a few laughs and leaves, whereas The Office inverted that. Right,

436
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 1: You had the crazy boss sort of out front, and

437
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: the moments between the young lovers existed, sometimes in a

438
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 1: gesture or a look and talk to me about how

439
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: you feel like that that helped the gym and Pam. Wow,

440
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: it's really interesting what you're pointing out. The office is

441
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: structural quite unusual. You know, you have shows that are

442
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 1: center and eccentrics. That's Taxi with Judd Hirsch at the

443
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 1: center and everybody else is a character actor and that's

444
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: a that's a conventional structure um the office in an

445
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: odd way, it splits things totally a little bit. You

446
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: have a big, powerful comedy star at the center who

447
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: is not the point of view protagonist. So that's interesting.

448
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: It meant that frequently we'd have a more comedy storyline

449
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: in the A story with Michael and Dwight, for example,

450
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: and then a more straight romantic B story with Jim

451
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 1: and Pam. Greg used to say a thing I thought

452
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,199
Speaker 1: it was very interesting tonally, he said, separate out the

453
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: scenes that are dramatic tone from the scenes that are

454
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: comic tone. He called it the mc d LT. They

455
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: had this hamburger that was served hot in half the

456
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: styrofoam container, and then in the other half of the

457
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: styrofilm container was cold lettuce and tomato, And the gimmick

458
00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: was that you buy it and then and they put

459
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 1: it together. In the hot he's hot, in the cold,

460
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: see is cold? That was what he used to say.

461
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: Keep the hot side hot and the cold side cold,

462
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: the funny side funny, and the drama side dramatic. Interesting. Yeah. Um,

463
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: I talked a long time with Rain about this. I

464
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: was probably too nice to him. But I think in

465
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: the history of television, you are hard pressed to find

466
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: any comedy duo that was better than Dwight and Michael.

467
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: Um what what do you think was special about their

468
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: relationships and the and the way they were written that

469
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: brought such comedy gold. I remember asking Rain one time

470
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: about his view of Dwight, and we came to realize

471
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,479
Speaker 1: that we were writing a character that was, you know,

472
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: the nerd, the weirdo that you make fun of for comedy,

473
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: but that the performer was doing something much bigger than that.

474
00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 1: He was not making fun of this guy. He was

475
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 1: celebrating him. And it just seems so obvious to him

476
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: that that's what one would do. He said, Yeah, you

477
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: can't go around judging your character, you know. And you

478
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: could see how much he loved Dwight. So he's bringing

479
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: this genius that's very rain this adoration for the marginal guy,

480
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: and I mean Steve Correll, known in the improv community

481
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: is one of the greatest of all time. So it's

482
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: really those two in combination. And yeah, the dynamic between

483
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: them is something extraordinary to what did what did you put?

484
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: Could you put your finger on what you thought was

485
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: their essential dynamic? I think that they were two characters

486
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: both through the writing and the performances and their intention

487
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: that were so perfect. All Michael wants is to be loved, right.

488
00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: Dwight loves him, and all he wants is Michael's approval

489
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: and acceptance. And it's almost as though, because because that's

490
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: the person that he really has, he's somewhere deep inside

491
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: doesn't trust him because you know, like like not on

492
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: the conscious level, but that like so he shows disdain

493
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: for him for loving him, even though that's all he wants.

494
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: But Michael has to play as though he doesn't care

495
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: for Dwight because there's other cooler people that really he

496
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: should be friends with, right it It kind of attaches

497
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: to that schoolyard schoolyard I'm I'm in the nineteen fifties

498
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, but like you know that like

499
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: grade school thing where it's like, Oh, I want to

500
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: be I want the popular kid, right, I want Ryan,

501
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: I want Jim. You know that those are the cool kids.

502
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: Maybe it connects to that. Oh, I think you're right,

503
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. That's the funny irony of it is

504
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: you can't accept the adoration of the one guy who

505
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: worships him, right, but you, Brian, I think if any

506
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: of your guests just pause to kind of analyze what

507
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: was great and is great about you as a comic performer,

508
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: that's unnecessary. But what is that coming? I don't know.

509
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: I mean, please go ahead. If there's something, I can't

510
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: stop you. Anybody who watches you perform, you know, can

511
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: see it. But I thought that you had this tremendous

512
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: collection of gifts in that you're obviously able to do

513
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: real acting at any time. You know, you've got the

514
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,959
Speaker 1: big time dramatic chops, but in addition the comic chops

515
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: and the physicality, which is not easy. Um. I remember

516
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: they allowed me to shoot a webisode of a little

517
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: four partner that we got to do where Kevin's Alane,

518
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: where you're gonna sell ice cream from a truck, and

519
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: it was all fantastic. But the moment that stood out

520
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: for me was we just had this bit where you

521
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: had to walk out of the building holding a suitcase,

522
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: a briefcase, and you know, the instruction was, can you

523
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: kind of just stumble on the curb and the briefcase

524
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: flaps open or something. I don't think we had it

525
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: planned at all, but you did. Four takes. Each of

526
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: them was just great. They were so real and the

527
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: and the way you would turn back and try to

528
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: close it and give up, and and I was so

529
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: impressed by that, especially when later I had opportunities to

530
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: try to get physical comedy from other actors, and I

531
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: found most of them can't even begin to do physical comedy. Well,

532
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: It's interesting because this had never occurred to me ever

533
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: ever until this moment. I remember very specifically the moment

534
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: you're referencing um from Kevin's Loan, and I wonder if

535
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: somewhere in the back of a writer's mind that led

536
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: to Kevin's spilling the children as possible. I'm glad you

537
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: brought up Kevin's filling the chili, as you recall, I

538
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: directed that scene written by Aaron Sure, a great collaboration

539
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: of artists there um boy, it's possible. It was a

540
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: cold open, and the joke in the cold open really

541
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: was this contradiction between the air edition of and in

542
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: a way kind of foodie arrogance of this recipe that

543
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: you're delivering, contrasting with as as you know, guttural and

544
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: lowly visual as we can create. I'll tell you I

545
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: remember with Kenna's chili. I was so proud of you,

546
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: Brian that we were like, Okay, we're gonna build a

547
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,239
Speaker 1: chili tureen with a fake bottom so it'll look like

548
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: it's filled. But then Brian won't have to carry seventy

549
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: four pounds. You said. You looked at the expensive proper

550
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: we created with a slanted bottom so that it seemed

551
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: to be filled and wasn't, and you were like, I'm

552
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: going in real, bring me the big tren you carry

553
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: that incredibly heavy chili container. That was amazing. We only

554
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: got two takes, I would call because one I did

555
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: that in one time. It is my Yeah, for whatever reason,

556
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: it has become the thing for which I am known.

557
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: Now I own a T shirt with you carrying the

558
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: carrying the filly. Yeah, it's uh. It has become the

559
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: thing for me for sure, and people always ask that,

560
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: and I remember, um, I haven't told this story on here,

561
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: but someone came to me before and we did it.

562
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: Obviously at the end of the spilling part, at the

563
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: end of the day, everybody else was gone. It was

564
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: just all the other actors were gone. It was just me.

565
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: And they had cut a piece of carpet right that

566
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: extended forever, like into the hallway around reception desk, over

567
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: to Jim and Dwight's cluster there. Because if the chili

568
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: spilled on the carpet, they would screw up the carpet forever.

569
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: So they came and they were like, Brian, we have

570
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: three piece of carpet, that's all. Well, that's all we

571
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: can do, so we have to just to do that.

572
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: But I yeah, it was it was one take and

573
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: I and the reason I remember so well was I

574
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: think in retrospect, despite three piece of carpet, we didn't

575
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: have three of me. And how stained I was from

576
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: even the first take, I don't think that I could

577
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: have been reset. Moment when you chose to take like

578
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: printer paper and try to mop up the chili is

579
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: so brilliant. Everybody knows printer paper doesn't absorb it all.

580
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: It's just this siss of being doomed effort to clean up.

581
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: It's so great. Bran Well, I think of any thing

582
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: that will live on for me way after I'm gone,

583
00:34:38,080 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 1: that that that meme or whatever will be in Greg yes, yes,

584
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: and Mike sure yes. All told me that their favorite

585
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: or the best episode of the Office was Business School. Wow.

586
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 1: I'm humbled. Um. I mean, it's just so beautiful. I

587
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: have been asked about this episode before. I always say

588
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: that it's one of these very lucky coming togethers of

589
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: the experience of the writer and the experience of the

590
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: actor in this case Jenna, and maybe of artists in general.

591
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about what we're trying to do, uh,

592
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: it involves dreaming big that we could be special, and

593
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: inevitably we must encounter failure because none of us is

594
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: great every time. And to get greatness you have to

595
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: put so much heart into it, you know, writing spec scripts.

596
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: For me, that's really what it's about. And and there

597
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: are moments in everyone's career I imagine when they go,

598
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I'm not going to be one of

599
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: those people who tried and and make it. You know.

600
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: Of course, yeah, we all have basically almost been that person,

601
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: and we know the feeling. Jenni Fisher for sure. I

602
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: mean she audition for seven or eight years before she

603
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: was able to support herself, and so she really knows

604
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: that feeling. That's what this is all a metaphor for.

605
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: Is there anything personal for you? Oh yeah, oh yeah,

606
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: big time. You know, uh, I really feel the relationship

607
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: between um, a young aspiring artist and a father. You know,

608
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: she feels like she has failed and her art has

609
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: been called motel art by somebody whose tastes she might respect.

610
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: And here's a guy who she doesn't respect, like you

611
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: do with your dad, who's saying, honey, you're great, and

612
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: that's so beautiful and meaningful. Yeah. Um. Gregg talked about

613
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: something apparently called truth and beauty and wanted to find

614
00:36:54,520 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 1: like stark truth and reality and small moments of beauty

615
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: and connection between people, like the end of business school. Sure,

616
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: well that's fundamental for sure. You know what's interesting is

617
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: you gotta also remember it's a comedy, and I remember

618
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: there were times when you could drift out of it.

619
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 1: I specifically remember early on when I was a new

620
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: writer there, they did a screening of an episode and

621
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 1: everybody loved it. And I remember saying the notes afterwards, guys,

622
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: you have three scenes in a row where you're not

623
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: even trying to be funny. And this statement was met

624
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: by silence from the writers, by the way, to the

625
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: point where I thought, did they not get it? And

626
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: I repeated it multiple times, and then afterwards I went

627
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: to Paul. I liked Paul. What happened? Did did people

628
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: hear what I was saying? Because yeah, bright, we heard

629
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: it the first time. Stop pounding it into us. But

630
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: they had realized I guess that, Oh yeah, ship, it's

631
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: not a drama. You gotta put comedy in there as well.

632
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: That balance is so interesting in this art form. Yeah, um,

633
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: do you remember? So you know, we have the writer's strike.

634
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: We also have a huge recession that happens during the show. Um,

635
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna reference a few of your episodes here, but

636
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: the economy started tanking? Were you writing those outside realities

637
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: into um episodes of the show? Business School obviously as

638
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 1: an example that you specifically wrote Michael's lack of touch

639
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,280
Speaker 1: of business and where business was going. But there's also

640
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 1: money where Michael takes a second job because he can't

641
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: make ends meet. There was also you know, the storyline

642
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: of Saber came at a time Comcast was coming in

643
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: and taking over. Was that an intentional think? You just

644
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: got kind of a glint in your eye. Bj Novak

645
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,720
Speaker 1: was very kind of aware of these trends in technology,

646
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: you know, with Wolf, I always thought was so prescient.

647
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: It's such a perfect takedown of the internet startup. And

648
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: Greg to you know, Greg is always way ahead of trends.

649
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 1: I don't know where he finds the time to read

650
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: The Economist or whatever he's doing, but I mean he did.

651
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: We did an episode I remember at the time it

652
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: was called China, but I don't know what it ever

653
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 1: aired as that was that was one called China Okay,

654
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: good good? Yeah? And that was that was you know,

655
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: Greg realizing, oh ship, China is going to take over

656
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: the world economy and what if Michael reads an article

657
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: about this in the dentist's office. Um, but yeah, trend awareness.

658
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 1: Some of those smart writers were all over that, and

659
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 1: Saver as an example for sure. Um, do you remember

660
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: Comcast taking over? No? I don't do you remember? Was there? Yeah? Well,

661
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: one of the things that paul Um talked about was

662
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: timing that Comcast came in and took over, and there

663
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 1: was no history with the show. You know, the ratings

664
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: were declining. We know now it just kept declining on

665
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: every show everywhere because people were starting to watch streaming,

666
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: but the office was declining, and so they were confronted

667
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: with this new entity. Here's their biggest show, and Steve

668
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: Correll is leaving, so we need to bring in another star.

669
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: And that was that was Paul's take on which I

670
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: didn't know, like that somebody else needed to come in.

671
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: I don't know where did you net out on that

672
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: as an idea moving forward? Well, what you're saying makes

673
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: a lot of sense, because there was an obvious consensus

674
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: creatively that yeah, we don't need to add anyone at all.

675
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: In fact, as I recall, it was virtually unanimous that

676
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: people felt Dwight should become the new uh Michael and

677
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: to take over the office just seemed obvious to us,

678
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: and the fact that that there was pushback to that

679
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: was contentious creatively for us. So I do remember that

680
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that it was coinciding with this takeover,

681
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: which makes a lot of sense. When did you find

682
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: out that Steve was going to be leaving. I thought

683
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: that it was sort of known. He had a seven

684
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: year contract, and I remember early on Hang with Steve

685
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,760
Speaker 1: and him saying, apropos of nothing, this is the greatest

686
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: television show that I will ever be a part of.

687
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: I remember being struck by that, because us he was

688
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: not an old man at the end of his career.

689
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 1: I've never met somebody who, in the midst of doing

690
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: something great says this is as good as it will

691
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,919
Speaker 1: ever get. And he didn't mean it pessimistically. He meant

692
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: it exactly opposite. Just look how incredible this show is.

693
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: So him leaving, to me always felt like he had

694
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: intended to do seven seasons. That was what he had

695
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: portioned his energy for, and he had made his artistic

696
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: statement that he had always conceived of doing and we're

697
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: always going to move on. So it seemed to me

698
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 1: like the most undramatic thing in the world, but of course,

699
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: creatively for a TV show, the most challenging thing in

700
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 1: the world. What do you do when your star leaves

701
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: and you're gonna try to continue doing the show. I

702
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: love the way the show responded, by the way, it's

703
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: such a series of lessons in uh TV making so

704
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: you weren't concerned about the show moving forward, but you

705
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: were more excited about finding out what comes next. Well,

706
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: I was oblivious to what was going to be the

707
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: big Allen is there. Greg was not. He Greg sat

708
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: the writer's down at one point and said, watch what

709
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 1: will happen? He said, criticism comes in cycles, and so

710
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 1: you know, it starts out the Office isn't getting ratings,

711
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: but look at this champ from coming from behind and

712
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: now it's great. And he was the next stage of

713
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: the narrative will be the Office has lost its mojo.

714
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: So he prepared us for that. He said, it happened

715
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: on Saturdaynight Live. And then he goes, if you stick

716
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: around long enough, then the narrative becomes the Office is back,

717
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live is back. So it seemed like that

718
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: was inevitable. Um, I feel like the last season and

719
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: then certainly the finale, but but really the whole last

720
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:48,479
Speaker 1: season is grossly underappreciate. I feel like one thing I'm

721
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 1: very proud about the show is that it was a

722
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: show that had a beginning and had a middle, and

723
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: then it had an end, and and the reveal of

724
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: documentary crew was such an important element to telling the

725
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: full story and having the characters see themselves exposed in

726
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 1: a way. Um, it was very interesting as an actor,

727
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: quite brilliant in its conception. Pure Greg he knew from

728
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 1: the very start. He came into season nine saying, here's

729
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: how we're going to do the finale. Um, the documentary

730
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: will finally air. And he also had in mind this

731
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: idea that there would be a reunion show in the finale,

732
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: and that the word reunion would come to mean two things,

733
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,399
Speaker 1: as Pam and Jim would have split up and would

734
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: have a reunion in that episode. As I mentioned earlier,

735
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: it was so painful for the audience to explore the

736
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: breakup of Jim and Pam that we put the brakes

737
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: on it. Basically, you can see them getting to separation

738
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 1: and then it just was unpleasant for everyone and we

739
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: bailed on it. They come back together sort of off

740
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: screen really, and they are together in the reunion. They

741
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: don't have to have a reunion in that episode. Uh.

742
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: How did Jenna and John feel about them potentially splitting up, Well,

743
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: they seemed very much involved and on board for everything.

744
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: You know. It was really cool in season nine the

745
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,479
Speaker 1: way the actors were invited into the writer's room more

746
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 1: than usual. Tell us everything you've ever wanted to do

747
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,720
Speaker 1: on this show, because this is our last chance. And

748
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: and Jenna and John, my recollection is they both are

749
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: EPs in season nine as well, and we're invited to

750
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: have serious creative input. I remember John saying something very

751
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: cool and interesting where he was like, this last season

752
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 1: is for the fans. Imagine them as your primary audience.

753
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: We don't have to build an audience now, this is it.

754
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 1: Let's give them the thing they most want. And that

755
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: informed a lot of creative decisions. Yeah. Um, are you

756
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: happy with how the show ended? Yes, very much so. Yeah.

757
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: I remember going to the screening and the the emotions

758
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: and I felt watching it with everybody who was involved

759
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 1: were were so warm and positive. Now, just even saying

760
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: that shows you how completely non objective my experience of

761
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: the ending is. You may have noticed that Greg, who

762
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: wrote the episode, Um, he cast into it tons of

763
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: people who worked behind the scenes. And you you is

764
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: that your acting debut on the Office? It certainly is. Uh.

765
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: And you know what Greg was doing was creating a

766
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: kind of yearbook for himself where he managed to photograph

767
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: all these people that he cared about, so when he

768
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: watches that episode, it's an emotional reunion for him too.

769
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: I want to point out, Brian, that before I went

770
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: on camera in that finale episode, I turned to you

771
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 1: and I said, Brian, how do you act? I have

772
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: to deliver a line? What is acting? Two minutes for

773
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: you to tell me how to deliver a line? And

774
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 1: I'll never forget what you told me. Okay, here's what

775
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 1: it was. The line I had to say. It was

776
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: something like I had to say to Jim and Pam, Um,

777
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: now you've seen you got yourself on on TV. You

778
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: know what was it like after all those years watching

779
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: yourself on TV? And I said, how do how do

780
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,439
Speaker 1: I do this? And you said okay? So Brent, so Um,

781
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: you know these guys have just seen themselves on TV, right,

782
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: So just asked them. That's asked them. You know what

783
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: was it like to see themselves on TV? I was like, okay,

784
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: and that was it. You just you just kind of

785
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: translated into just a massive it's really happening. That's pretty brilliant.

786
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,439
Speaker 1: So when you think about the office, when a fan

787
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: is watching the show, obviously the actors are the face

788
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: of that show, and the actors have gone to do

789
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: many things afterwards, But I started thinking about you and

790
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 1: Gen Salada and Mike Sure and all of the great

791
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: writers that came out of the writer's room, the tree

792
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: of Greg Daniels. And here in the last let's say,

793
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:17,959
Speaker 1: seven years, Um, these are the shows that have been

794
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: headed by old writers of the Office, Space Force, Love,

795
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: Parks and Wreck, The Mindy Project, Brooklyn nine nine, The

796
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: Good Place, Master of None, Superstore, news Room, Hello Ladies,

797
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 1: Four Weddings in a Funeral, Q Force, Little America, SMILF,

798
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: People of Earth, Bad Teacher, Trophy, Wife Champions, Guys with Kids,

799
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 1: Central Park, Ghosted, Platform, Never Have I Ever Champions, Sunnyside,

800
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: and Abbey's. I mean, that is an incredible list of

801
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: shows and shows. Really, you, guys, um, were the all

802
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: stars of this creative ensemble. Well, Greg Daniels is really

803
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 1: good at picking writers. I've always said the guy who's

804
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: best at picking actors is Judd Apatow, and the best

805
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 1: at picking writers is Greg. He's great at it. He

806
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: reads scripts, and he can tell from reading a script

807
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 1: whether a writer is good or not to a level

808
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: that is unusual. And so he's brought up some really

809
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: really great writers and then brought them up in a

810
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,959
Speaker 1: process you know that dates back a long time. We're

811
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: all trained up in these rooms, and then we we

812
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: bring our wisdom to new rooms. And so the office

813
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: is this distillation of quite a lot of TV running wisdom,

814
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: you know that that Greg brings and was shared amongst them,

815
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 1: and then now is you know, dissipated amongst these other Yeah,

816
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: it's crazy. I also heard Greg takes really long meetings.

817
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, No. The meeting with a writer

818
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: for Greg, oh it's crazy. I mean Robert Pattnick may

819
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: have been the longest writer's meeting ever. I think he

820
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: was there for twelve hours or something, the kind of

821
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: thing that you can only do to something in their twenties.

822
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: But Greg really like to observe the writer. And Greg

823
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 1: felt that he could not effectively observe the writer while

824
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 1: talking to that writer face to face. So what he

825
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,280
Speaker 1: would do is he would call some other writer in jents,

826
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: can you come up here and meet this writer, Robert Patnick,

827
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 1: And so Jen Salata would have a conversation with Pattick,

828
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: and Greg would sit at like a forty five degree

829
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: angle and just staring Robert Patnick, you know, and then

830
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: you would do that with eight ten writers. Uh, and

831
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: take it very, very seriously. It's a very wrenching thing

832
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: to get rid of a writer, So you want to

833
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: hire one with a lot of confidence when you go in, right.

834
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: You know, people talk about what the legacy of the

835
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 1: Office is. Certainly these shows and the good work that's

836
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: done on so many of them is a legacy of

837
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 1: the show. Yes, I know that Greg and others hope

838
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: for more of a legacy in terms of of tone.

839
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: You know, Greg thought that maybe The Office would change

840
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: the tone of television a little bit more in the

841
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 1: direction of realism, grounded acting, um unhurried plot telling, and

842
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: all of those things that we think of as the

843
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: platinum qualities of the Office. But it doesn't seem to

844
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: have been that way. That even the next mockumentary show,

845
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: Modern Family, is structured much more like a traditional show

846
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: than than The Office. Why do you think the show

847
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 1: is bigger now than it was when we were NBC's

848
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: top scripted show. I have my theories. One is just

849
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: the quality of the show is is truly something different? Uh?

850
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: For sure, the sense of family that radiates from a

851
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: great TV show, of the emotional attraction a great writer

852
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: named Mike Reas original Simpsons guy told me that the

853
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: secret to every hit network TV show is subtext of family.

854
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: I believe that's true, definitely true of the Office, and

855
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: it's it's true of the actors of the Office as well.

856
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: You can feel that love that they have for each

857
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: other and the respect they have for each other is performed. Uh,

858
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: that's part of it. I also think though, that there

859
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 1: are certain shows that make you feel good about liking them.

860
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 1: People liked Frasier more than they actually liked it because

861
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: it made them feel smart. Those little you know, it

862
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: goes to black and you see kind of a written

863
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,720
Speaker 1: title for this little chapter of Frasier. Boy, am I smart?

864
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: That I like? Frasier is the feeling that gives you,

865
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: and the Office has a little bit of that. You know,

866
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: you can tell there's something taste making about This has

867
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: to do with behavior over banter, priority on realism, small

868
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 1: real Uh. These are phrases that flowed through the writer's

869
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 1: room and are the hallmarks of good taste in drama

870
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 1: and comedy. So the young people know that they have

871
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: good taste by liking it. Yeah, what are you most

872
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: proud of about the show? Oh, gosh. I watched the

873
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,439
Speaker 1: whole thing from beginning to end with my daughter when

874
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: she was fourteen, and that gave me an emotional connection

875
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: to the show that was even greater than what I

876
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: had when I was there. And it makes me very

877
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,280
Speaker 1: proud to be part of that. It makes my daughter

878
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 1: look up to me just a little bit, which is

879
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: extremely unusual and rare. Take it. Yeah, that's nice, um, Brent,

880
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 1: thank you so much. It's been my pleasure to talk

881
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: with you. I mean, you're writing, your contribution to the show,

882
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 1: you're directing, and all of the heart and soul that

883
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 1: you put into it, um is awesome. So thank you, Brian. Well,

884
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: as you know, it was a great pleasure doing the

885
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: office with you, and I can't wait to see what

886
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 1: we do next exactly. Thanks buddy, Thank you. What a

887
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 1: pleasure man. Thank You're such a great actor. I love

888
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: being around great actors. Well it's a pleasure. Well, what

889
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 1: a delight that was. Plus he called me a great actor,

890
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 1: so there's that. But in truth, Brent, just as a

891
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: way of putting a smile on your face, or at

892
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: least my face, I can't see your faces. I'm just

893
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 1: gonna assume you're smiling too. Brent, thank you so much

894
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 1: for coming in. I am very glad that you were

895
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 1: able to win over the writers with your British accent

896
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: and survival guides. The show would not have been the

897
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 1: same without you. And to all of you listeners, thank

898
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 1: you so much for tuning in. Don't forget to subscribe, follow,

899
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: leave us a review. It's so important and I so

900
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 1: appreciate all of you who have done so so far.

901
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: Until we meet again, which I'm guessing is next week,

902
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 1: I hope you all have an exceptional week. The Office.

903
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 1: Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner,

904
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 1: alongside our executive producer, Lang Lee. Our senior producer is

905
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:30,720
Speaker 1: Tessa Kramer, our producer is Adam Massias, our associate producer

906
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 1: is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor is Diego Tapia.

907
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 1: My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our

908
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend

909
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 1: Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth Olansky