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Speaker 1: Dear listener, It's Mariaino Jsa and before we start, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to give you a heads up. This is not

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Speaker 1: your typical Latino USA episode because today we're presenting the

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Speaker 1: first episode of USA Versus Garcia Luna. It's a new

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Speaker 1: podcast series from Futuro Investigates in partnership with Lemonada Media,

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Speaker 1: and I'm one of the co hosts of the series.

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Speaker 1: But you're gonna hear me like you've never really heard

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Speaker 1: me before, and I mean it's really different because this

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Speaker 1: story is not just a deep investigative story. I mean, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's about the war on drugs. It's about the millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars that flow between Mexico and the US, and

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Speaker 1: at the center of all of this we have some

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Speaker 1: very serious accusations against one man. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: listening to this is a story that's going to feel

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Speaker 1: a little bit like watching a telenovela while also listening

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Speaker 1: to a true crime podcast. I mean, it's that crazy.

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Speaker 1: So we're about to start, but there's just one more thing.

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Speaker 1: If after you listen to this first episode you want

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Speaker 1: to hear the next one, you can do that today

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Speaker 1: Visit Futuro investigates dot Org to find episode two and

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Speaker 1: so much more on USA Versus Garcia Luna. Okay, dear listener,

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Speaker 1: here we go Enjoy.

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Speaker 2: Futuro investigates Putio Investia.

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Speaker 3: Ola. Dear listener, it's Mariainojosa.

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Speaker 1: We are premiering right here, right now, a new series

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Speaker 1: that's going to take us on a journey, well to

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Speaker 1: get to know this one person who I've kind of

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Speaker 1: been obsessing about. This person is at the center of

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Speaker 1: an international intrigue. Basically, dear listener, it's like true crime

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Speaker 1: meets Helenoela. I'm serious, This guy's story is gonna connect.

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Speaker 3: Listen to this.

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Speaker 1: The US government, the war on drugs, and the cartels

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Speaker 1: who are getting absurdly rich by feeding a very profitable market.

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Speaker 3: And you know where that market is. It's right here

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Speaker 3: in the United States.

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Speaker 1: So in a minute, I'm gonna tell you who this

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Speaker 1: person is, because I know you're like, wait, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: who is?

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Speaker 3: But this series is not.

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Speaker 1: Going to be just about deep investigative journalism. It's also

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Speaker 1: going to be actually really emotional. It's going to be

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Speaker 1: super personal.

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Speaker 4: And sometimes it's gonna be sad or even in raging,

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Speaker 4: and also kind of absurd.

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Speaker 1: By the way, that voice is Emmy Award winning investigative

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Speaker 1: journalist Benny Leira, Meetez, and she's gonna be my co

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Speaker 1: host on this fabulous new adventure. We're going to take

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Speaker 1: you on, my dear listener.

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Speaker 3: So oh let.

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Speaker 5: Benny, Hello, fu listener.

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Speaker 4: I'm so happy to bring you along with Maria the

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Speaker 4: very first podcast series of Futuro Investigates.

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Speaker 1: So Benny lay is my co executive producer of our

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Speaker 1: unit that we started that's going to do special projects

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Speaker 1: and investigations at Futuro Media. And for this podcast, Benny

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Speaker 1: Lee and I are going to dive deep into the

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Speaker 1: war on drugs. Now, it's a multi billion dollar operation.

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Speaker 3: You know this. There are obscure winners.

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Speaker 1: Very often the losers are ignored, whether they're here in

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Speaker 1: the United States or in Mexico. But one quick thing,

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Speaker 1: because with all due respect, in this series, we are

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Speaker 1: going to laugh because even though this story is very serious,

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Speaker 1: it does involve very very serious issues, but.

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Speaker 3: It's also a little crazy.

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Speaker 1: And so we decided that in order to get through

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Speaker 1: recording in something like this, we needed to do something

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Speaker 1: not a little different, very different for journalists. So here

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Speaker 1: we go. We brought a bottle of tequila. Maus, oh

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Speaker 1: that's a okay, that's a big one. That's for you listens.

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Speaker 1: For me, this is going to be half salute salute, Okay,

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Speaker 1: Penny Lay. So we have our tequila and we've already

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Speaker 1: said that you're this incredible journalist. I mean, Leberta Leveta,

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Speaker 1: You're a badass. I have all kinds of respect for you.

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Speaker 1: But I think listeners need to know a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about you. So Penny Lay, tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about yourself. Introduce yourself.

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Speaker 4: Well, I was born in Cuba, and actually my parents

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Speaker 4: loved the Beatles, so they decided to call me Pennyley,

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Speaker 4: but the Cuban way, so it's not Penny Lane as

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Speaker 4: the Beatles son, but p E n I l A

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Speaker 4: Y Penny Lay, Penny Lay, so I'm the tropical version

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Speaker 4: of Pennilee. Then I moved to Mexico when I was

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Speaker 4: fourteen years old. That's where I became a journalist. And

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Speaker 4: now I have been living in the US for almost

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Speaker 4: two years, and this podcast series is really exciting for

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Speaker 4: me because fourteen years I have been following this story

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Speaker 4: I'm about to tell you, and as you know, Maria,

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Speaker 4: the story started in Mexico, but now it's moved to the.

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Speaker 1: US, right, And it didn't just move from Mexico to

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Speaker 1: the United States, it moved literally to our doorsteps, right

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Speaker 1: here to New York City, right where we are recording

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Speaker 1: this podcast.

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Speaker 5: But there is one thing I'm worried about.

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Speaker 3: What is that?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, I'm worried about my accent. Celia Cruz,

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Speaker 4: the Cuban singer. She said, remember that my English is

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Speaker 4: not very good looking, and I feel that that applies

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Speaker 4: to me. My English is not very good looking.

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Speaker 3: Look anyway.

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Speaker 1: So look, the thing is is that we want to

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Speaker 1: normalize accents in audio, in radio, in every part of

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Speaker 1: our lives. So we're very happy that you're here with us,

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Speaker 1: Benny Lay. But also you know, I'm a jokester, so

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Speaker 1: don't be upset if I poke a little fun at

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Speaker 1: your English.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm sorry, don't worry.

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Speaker 4: I will make fun of your Spanish to Shay. Well, Maria,

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Speaker 4: I we agree. Then we can just finish this and

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Speaker 4: focus on the subject.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna do what.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, focus on the series.

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Speaker 1: Fuck us, We're gonna focus on our series. Okay, This,

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Speaker 1: dear listener, is episode one of our new series USA

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Speaker 1: Versus Garcia Luna.

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Speaker 6: The man who ran Mexico's federal police for years, has

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Speaker 6: been arrested right here in Dallas.

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Speaker 1: He's accused of taking millions of dollars in bribes from

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Speaker 1: none other than drug cartel kingpin Elchopo.

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Speaker 4: This story revolves around this guy called Henaro Garcia Luna.

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Speaker 5: But this is not just a story about a man.

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Speaker 4: It's about something bigger, the war on drugs and the

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Speaker 4: many individuals and businesses that profit from it legally and illegally.

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Speaker 4: And this is a word that the US and Mexico

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Speaker 4: claimed they have been fighting together for decades.

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Speaker 1: So it's also about the public funds that, unknown to

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Speaker 1: US taxpayers, have funded billion dollar industries that operate around

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Speaker 1: the war on drugs.

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Speaker 4: And actually I wrote a book using this investigative angle,

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Speaker 4: and the book is called Los Millionarios de la Gera

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Speaker 4: The Millionaires of War, because Garcia Luna, from his position

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Speaker 4: in the Mexican government, was at the center of that

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Speaker 4: word and he became very rich like souper Errico. Oh

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Speaker 4: while he served as Mexico's public security secretary.

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Speaker 1: Okay, wait, wait, wait, so let's just underscore that, so

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Speaker 1: he becomes super wealthy while he's serving as Mexico's public

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Speaker 1: security secretary.

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Speaker 3: Just we need to underline that.

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Speaker 4: He was the most influential official in Mexico in Felipe

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Speaker 4: Calderon's administration from two dozen and six to two dozen

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Speaker 4: and twelve.

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Speaker 1: So he was really the right hand for the Mexican president.

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Speaker 1: But now he's accused of working with the infamous drug

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Speaker 1: lord Juaquin and Chapel Guzman and the Sina Loa cartel

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Speaker 1: to help them smuggle drugs into, yes, the United States.

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Speaker 4: And this is a story also with a strong US connection,

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Speaker 4: because it was thanks to that US connections that Garcia

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Speaker 4: Luna was able to become one of the most powerful.

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Speaker 5: Men in Mexico. And any time he faced any.

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Speaker 4: Criticism or suspicious their conclusions was always the same. How

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Speaker 4: could Garcia Luna be corrupt if he worked so close

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Speaker 4: to the US.

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Speaker 1: So that's also something that needs to be underscored. Right,

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Speaker 1: the United States in the picture of the drug war,

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Speaker 1: they're doing everything right, They're providing all the money, they're

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Speaker 1: doing all these good things. So if Garcia Luna was

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Speaker 1: working so closely with the United States, there's no way

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Speaker 1: that he could be tainted. I mean, that's what they

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Speaker 1: would say. So one of the reasons why I became

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Speaker 1: obsessed with this story like you is because if you

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Speaker 1: reduce it, you know, it becomes basically true crime meets

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Speaker 1: the lenovela. Thelenoela's can often have these happy moments, you know,

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Speaker 1: happy endings. Benny Lee, You've been working on this story

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Speaker 1: for a decade, but it always hasn't been a happy

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Speaker 1: story for you.

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Speaker 4: Now, sometimes it's been a dangerous story. Sometimes it's been

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Speaker 4: hard to investigate. Garcia Luna has been there in my

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Speaker 4: life for the past decade. And for example, do you

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Speaker 4: remember how you and I met for the first time, Maria, So.

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Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken, you were invited to our first

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Speaker 1: live show recording in Mexico City.

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Speaker 3: It was a very big deal.

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Speaker 1: We were recording in Spanish and it was for the

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Speaker 1: podcast that I co anchor called in the thing any

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Speaker 1: listuyotros Penilera Mirez as reporter Investigatia Colonnivision or lepenile Ola.

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Speaker 4: Actually, I was so excited to meet you. But what

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Speaker 4: you don't know is that a few days after we

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Speaker 4: recorded that show in November of twenty eighteen, something really

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Speaker 4: crucial happened in the story of Hena Barziluna. He was

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Speaker 4: mentioned in the trial of juaquinl Chapousman here in New

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Speaker 4: York City, and.

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Speaker 7: A testimony the former cartel accountant said he personally delivered

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Speaker 7: bribes to Mexico's former federal security chief.

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Speaker 4: So for years people in Mexico and in the US

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Speaker 4: have been suspicious of Garcia Luna. But in that moment

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Speaker 4: during the trial, a leader of the Sinaloa cartels testified

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Speaker 4: under oath that the cartel has paid millions of dollars

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Speaker 4: in bribes to Garcia Luna himself in exchange for his

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Speaker 4: help in smuggling drugs into the United States. And again

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Speaker 4: this was during the time when Garcia Luna was the

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Speaker 4: top security official in Mexico and a close.

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Speaker 1: Usli So you have this witness who's from the Sinaloa cartel.

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Speaker 1: He's understand and he is saying, Garcia Luna, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was working for the Mexican government. He was a

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Speaker 1: government official, but he was also working for a chapel.

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Speaker 4: And after he was mentioned in the trial, I wrote

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Speaker 4: a column. I'm also a columnist.

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Speaker 1: So you're a mother, a wife, a writer and author, podcaster, columnist, gemas,

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Speaker 1: television producer, television producer.

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Speaker 3: Cook, No, you don't cook.

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Speaker 5: I cook, but I don't do mole saffery. I need

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Speaker 5: to learn.

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Speaker 3: And you dance, okay, and I dance.

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Speaker 4: And in November twenty eighteen, I wrote a column called

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Speaker 4: don Toshable, mister Luna, And this column was about how,

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Speaker 4: if everything they said about him was true, why this

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Speaker 4: guy is not in jail. Why this guy is still

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Speaker 4: walking around the US because he was living in the

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Speaker 4: US at this point, so why nobody was doing anything

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Speaker 4: about him?

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Speaker 1: Dear listener, The truth is I became obsessed with this

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Speaker 1: guy too, he Arrogarcia Luna. But my obsession about this

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Speaker 1: dude came through a very different route than Benny. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I did not investigate him for years. I didn't lose

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Speaker 1: sleep writing columns. You know, I didn't watch the Trial

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Speaker 1: of a Chapel. I mean, I didn't care about Chappo

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Speaker 1: at all. I never had because to me, he always

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Speaker 1: seemed like a scapegoat, one more reason to throw Mexicans,

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Speaker 1: all of us under the bus, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: United States, right, But during the pandemic, I ended up

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Speaker 1: in the Dominican Republic at some point and Netflix was

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Speaker 1: showing different shows than what I usually watch in the US,

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Speaker 1: and so I saw the El Chappo series pop up,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, all right, well, look, it's a

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Speaker 1: long series, let me just watch this.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: That series was actually based on a lot of the

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Speaker 1: work that you, Benny did while you were an investigative

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Speaker 1: correspondent at Unibcio.

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Speaker 3: What kind of sas in a biscacata che.

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Speaker 6: Speranmas.

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Speaker 1: And to me, the interesting character was not El Chapo,

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Speaker 1: though the actor was great. But then this guy who

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Speaker 1: in the TV series is called Condral.

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Speaker 3: I become obsessed with this.

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Speaker 4: Guy, right, and the news media in Mexico connected the

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Speaker 4: Conrado Soul character to Canaro Garcia Luna. Several articles were

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Speaker 4: published about the similarities and differences between the two.

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Speaker 1: So Garcia Luna the moon, and the character in the

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Speaker 1: Netflix series was called Conrado Sol Soul his son. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so it's a silly play on words, but basically, in

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Speaker 1: the series, Conrado Sol was the highest ranking Mexican law

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Speaker 1: enforcement official and he was working with El Chapo, and

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Speaker 1: he was representing El Chapo, yes with the DEA and

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Speaker 1: the FBI and everyone else.

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Speaker 3: So as I was watching this, I was just like,

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Speaker 3: what is this?

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Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it, And when I realized there was

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Speaker 1: this actual, real person who is accused of working with Elchapo,

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Speaker 1: I was completely fascinated.

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Speaker 4: What's really striking about Garcia Luna is that he came

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Speaker 4: from a very unremarkable background, but he was able to

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Speaker 4: rise to power very very quickly. Garcia Luna is now

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Speaker 4: in his fifties. He was born in Mexico City in

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Speaker 4: nineteen sixty eight, and in the late eighties, when he

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Speaker 4: was twenty one years old, he entered the season. The

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Speaker 4: CEASEN is the Center for Investigation on National Security, which

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Speaker 4: is the equivalent to the CIA in Mexico. He started

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Speaker 4: as a security agent, which means basically a low ranking spy.

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Speaker 4: But from there, in just about a decade, in the

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Speaker 4: year two thousand, the guy becomes the head of the

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Speaker 4: Federal Investigated Agency, so the equivalent to the director of

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Speaker 4: the FBI, and just six years after that he was

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Speaker 4: appointed Secretary of Public Security by then President Felipe Galdern.

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Speaker 5: This was the highest point of his career.

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Speaker 1: So from basically being a no suddenly he is now

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Speaker 1: the Secretary of Public Security under Mexican President Felipe Calderon.

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Speaker 1: But what exactly does this mean Secretary of public Security.

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Speaker 4: Well, it is one of the most powerful cabinet positions

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Speaker 4: in Mexico. Actually, it's similar to the Department of Homeland Security,

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Speaker 4: but with more responsibilities because the Secretary of Public Security

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Speaker 4: was in charge of the Mexican equivalent to the FBI,

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Speaker 4: the NZA, the DEA, and the prison.

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Speaker 5: Systems all at once.

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Speaker 4: So Garcia Luna was kind of untashable in Mexico. But

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Speaker 4: then he leaves Maria just one day after he led

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Speaker 4: public office. He also led the country and moved to Miami.

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Speaker 3: So that's a little bit weird.

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Speaker 1: Who leaves the country literally a day after your term ends.

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Speaker 3: It's strange, right.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and he moved with his wife and two children

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Speaker 4: to a three million dollar house in Miami.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but it's twenty twenty two. Now where is Garcia

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Speaker 1: Luna right now?

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Speaker 4: Right now, he is sitting in a detention center in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 4: and just a few weeks from now, Garcia Luna is

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Speaker 4: going to face the US justice system in a trial

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Speaker 4: here in New York City.

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Speaker 1: I know that maybe for you dear listener hearing about

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Speaker 1: a trial of an allegedly grew up Mexican official. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like, hum, it's been done before. But here's the

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Speaker 1: context for my obsession with this story, and it actually

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Speaker 1: goes back to I guess cue the music.

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Speaker 3: Back when I was a little girl in the nineteen seventies.

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Speaker 1: I was traveling from Chicago to Mexico basically starting in

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Speaker 1: the mid nineteen sixties until the nineteen eighties, and when

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Speaker 1: I would go back to Meca, this is where I

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Speaker 1: learned that there was essentially no democracy in the country

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Speaker 1: where I was born because I was born in Mexico,

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Speaker 1: you know, basically voting it didn't matter. And this was

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Speaker 1: really weird for me to find this out. For my cousins,

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Speaker 1: they are like, no, we don't vote because here in

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Speaker 1: Mexico we have this thing called el devasso, the big finger.

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Speaker 3: I was like, what does this mean.

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Speaker 1: It means that basically the outgoing president, not the people,

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Speaker 1: would use his big finger to choose who would lead

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Speaker 1: the country next. It was, I believe, the polar opposite

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Speaker 1: of how things were supposed to work in the United States.

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Speaker 1: But then in nineteen seventy two, Belave me.

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Speaker 2: Five people have been arrested and charged with breaking into

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Speaker 2: the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee in the middle.

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Speaker 1: Of the night. Watergate happened, and Benny Ley, this really

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Speaker 1: impacted me personally.

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Speaker 3: I mean I was a kid. Essentially.

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Speaker 1: It broke the bubble that I was living in, right,

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Speaker 1: the belief that there's no corruption here in the United States.

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Speaker 1: And with Watergate, it was like, no, the corruption exists

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Speaker 1: here in the United States, and it exists all the

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Speaker 1: way to the top of the White House. And look,

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Speaker 1: we're recording this in the year twenty twenty two. We

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Speaker 1: have all lived through the January sixth Committee hearings and

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Speaker 1: they have showed us once again the same thing. Corruption

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Speaker 1: is right here in the United States, in the US government,

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Speaker 1: and we can either face it or we can choose

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Speaker 1: to ignore it. And seeing the reporting of Woodward and

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Speaker 1: Birdstein with deep throat and what it accomplished for this country,

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Speaker 1: for our democracy, I mean, this kind of journalism changed

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Speaker 1: my life.

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Speaker 4: And actually, Maria, I am so obsessed with all the

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Speaker 4: presidents men too.

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Speaker 2: Fun sting, You're both on the story.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love this. I mean the movie,

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Speaker 1: It's just I love it. I can't believe we're obsessed

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Speaker 1: with the same thing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and I have my own deep throut in my.

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Speaker 1: Book, Have your Own Secret Secret informat for all of

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Speaker 1: this work on Garcia Luna.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I have a source. We have been in

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Speaker 4: touch for years now. The name I picked for this

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Speaker 4: person was Cameron. We will know more about Cameron in

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Speaker 4: this podcast.

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Speaker 1: I just love the fact that both of us are

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Speaker 1: obsessed with Woodward and Bernstein, that they impacted our lives, right,

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Speaker 1: changed our lives. And now we're embarking on our own

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Speaker 1: investigative podcast and we're doing it our own way.

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Speaker 4: So Maria, Yes, the connections that we are trying to

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Speaker 4: make as investigative journalists to try to uncover corruption, it's

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Speaker 4: not just important for us. They were actually very important

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Speaker 4: to Garcia Luna himself because he had built his image

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Speaker 4: as a close person to the United States. It was

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Speaker 4: really part of his character and personage that he created

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Speaker 4: for himself.

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Speaker 1: So what you're basically saying is that Garcia Luna was

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Speaker 1: throwing his proximity to the United States as his major

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Speaker 1: point of credibility within Mexico, and everybody in Mexico was like, no, Limpio,

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Speaker 1: He's clean, he works with the United States.

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Speaker 5: But then he was mentioned in Olchapo's trial.

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Speaker 4: And remember Maria, at that point, Garcia a Luna was

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Speaker 4: living in the US, so it was a big scandal

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Speaker 4: on both.

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Speaker 5: Sides of the border.

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Speaker 4: And what he did he went back to Mexico and

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Speaker 4: he gave a bunch of interviews Mepia Fami saying that, oh,

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Speaker 4: that's absurd, that's a lie. I'm going to sue this

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Speaker 4: person because he said that about me. And then he

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Speaker 4: started a campaign in Twitter posting different for US with captions, and.

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Speaker 5: I want to show you some of those tweets, Maria.

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Speaker 1: The first tweet is once twenty nineteen, eleventh of January

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Speaker 1: of twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 5: So two months after he was mentioned at a try.

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Speaker 1: It's just recognition from the DEA in the United States.

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Speaker 1: And then he has like a picture of like a

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Speaker 1: very fuzzy photograph of some kind of official US DEA badge.

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Speaker 4: Here is a second tweet, and it also includes a

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Speaker 4: photo of an award.

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Speaker 1: It says in Arrogaci a Luna in recognition of your friendship, collaboration,

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Speaker 1: and support during your tenure as the Security of Public Safety.

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Speaker 1: David PETREUS Director of Central Intelligence Agency April twenty.

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Speaker 4: Twelve, So according to the accusation, he was helping al

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Speaker 4: Chapel since two thousand and one, so more than ten

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Speaker 4: years after that. In twenty twelve, the CIA gave him

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Speaker 4: a recognition for his service and you.

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Speaker 5: Know, his help. So he keeps tweeting like this for months.

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Speaker 1: So this is April twenty nineteen, so literally just posting

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Speaker 1: photographs of him now with Hillary Clinton. I have friends

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Speaker 1: in high places.

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Speaker 5: You know, I prepared this for you. Because that's what

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Speaker 5: he was doing.

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Speaker 4: While the DEA and the Marshalls and everyone was finishing

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Speaker 4: all the details and the grand jury was voting for

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Speaker 4: preparing an indictment against him, he was tweeting on tweeting

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Speaker 4: photos with Hillary Clinton with the DA recognition and CIA.

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Speaker 4: You know all these awards of you are our friend.

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Speaker 4: You were amazing with us.

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Speaker 1: What you're saying, Benny Lay, is that this guy was like, Lottie,

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Speaker 1: do I'm gonna be okay because I know all these

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Speaker 1: people and they're going to take care of me.

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Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden boom.

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Speaker 5: This is Henaro Garcia Luna.

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Speaker 7: And during his time as a high profile leader, he's

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Speaker 7: accused of accepting millions of dollars in bribes, all in

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Speaker 7: exchange for providing protection to drug kingpin Joaquin El Chapo

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Speaker 7: Guzman and his cartel.

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Speaker 1: He was arrested on December ninth of twenty nineteen, exactly

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Speaker 1: three years ago. Now, Benny le A, I'm just wondering,

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Speaker 1: what do you remember about that day, because that must

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Speaker 1: have been completely shocking.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I was in Mexico City in a breakfast with

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Speaker 4: a source, and this this person has been my source

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Speaker 4: four years, so he knows everything about my story with

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Speaker 4: Garcia Luna that I have been uncovering his businesses and everything.

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Speaker 4: And I went to the restaurant. You know, Maria, when

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Speaker 4: one person is having dinner or breakfast with another and

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Speaker 4: one person goes to the restaurant, the other person is

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Speaker 4: scrawling the cell phone and trying to cash up everything.

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Speaker 4: So when I come back, he's like looking at me, smiling,

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Speaker 4: and he says, Garcia Luna was arrested.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I can't And you're just like, wait,

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Speaker 1: I'm having this little breakfast year.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was like in a movie, you know, in

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Speaker 4: that moment, I remember, like all sudden, like every source

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Speaker 4: I have interviewing old those years, every journalist that had

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Speaker 4: to leave Mexico, all the dangers I put myself in.

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Speaker 5: To uncover this story.

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Speaker 4: But then, you know, I told my source, oh, I'm

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Speaker 4: so sorry, I need to go.

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Speaker 5: And then two minutes.

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Speaker 4: After I was working on a story for Naticiero Nivision.

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Speaker 5: That's what president.

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Speaker 4: Yeahs, you went back and you filed.

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Speaker 1: You were on the evening news that night, basically telling

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Speaker 1: the story.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and that for my reporting, I interviewed Ginger Thompson.

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Speaker 4: She's a journalist with Republica and actually she was the

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Speaker 4: first person that.

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Speaker 5: Broke the news that he was arrested. So when I.

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Speaker 4: Interviewed her, she told me that in the apartment where

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Speaker 4: Garcia Luna was living in Texas at the moment of

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Speaker 4: the arrest, the officers that took him found a small

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Speaker 4: room with a lot of friends around, with all these

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Speaker 4: same recognitions you mean, awards, yeah, awards, and some pictures

441
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 4: of him with American diplomats and American officials.

442
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: So basically, what you're saying is that the officials catch him,

443
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: Garcia Luna in his home home in Texas, and when

444
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: they search the place, they find this room.

445
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 3: And it's a little bit crazy. Right, it's a.

446
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: Room where there are more than twenty frames of diplomas

447
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: and awards and recognitions and photographs with super important people.

448
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 3: And I guess, I don't know, it's weird. It's like

449
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 3: he would just sit in the room.

450
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: And be like, dude, let me look at all of

451
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: the awards and famous people. I know.

452
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 3: I guess I really am somebody.

453
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 5: Yeah.

454
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 4: And he was so obsessed with the frames and diplomas

455
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 4: that then I realized that in the previous house that

456
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 4: he had before he moved to Texas, he was living

457
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 4: in Miami. And here is a picture of his TV

458
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 4: room in Miami with the frames there. I was able

459
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 4: to trace at every house he was moving to, he

460
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 4: was carrying the frames.

461
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 5: All over the way.

462
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: Well, this is just like a guy who's pretty insecure,

463
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: so I can say, and we don't know, we're alleging, right,

464
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 1: it appears he would be deeply insecure.

465
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 4: Maybe he was insecure, and maybe he needed really needed

466
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 4: to prove that he had some really important friends in

467
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 4: the US government. And even today, Marie, after his arrest

468
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 4: and now that he's awaiting trial in the United States,

469
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 4: some of those officials still talking positive terms about him.

470
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 4: So two years ago for my book, I interviewed might

471
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 4: Be Hell. He was the chief of international operations for

472
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 4: the DA when Garcia Luna was head of the Mexican.

473
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 8: FBISPA in NUKA Comprometio Anda Hint.

474
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 4: We interviewed him again for this podcast, and while this

475
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 4: time he tempered his opinion on Garcia Luna a little bit,

476
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 4: he was still very positive.

477
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 8: And I Garcia Luna was willing to do so many

478
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 8: things for the Drug Enforcement Administration. I cannot say that

479
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 8: I ever heard any rumors that he was corrupt or

480
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 8: that he was involved with the Sinalo and cartel.

481
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 3: I mean, my jaw has dropped. I just don't understand.

482
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: You're the head of international operations for the DEA. Everything

483
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: about your position is that you're supposed to be suspicious

484
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: of everyone, of absolutely everyone. And again, I think it's

485
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,719
Speaker 1: because of that attitude that we wanted to do this podcast.

486
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,959
Speaker 4: And Garcia Luna, he was indeed the architect of the

487
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 4: quote unquote Mexican War on drugs, and the war on

488
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 4: drugs in Mexico came from a model that started in

489
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 4: the US just during the Nixon's presidency.

490
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: So this is important, dear listener, because if we go

491
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: back to Nixon, this is when the war on drugs

492
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: in the US is actually declared officially. It's after the

493
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: Cold War and Vietnam. You know, the US was looking

494
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: for a new war. The Nixon administration was really trashed

495
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: at that point, so they needed something, a local war,

496
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: and they turned a public health problem right into a

497
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: national security problem, and it becomes this kind of war talk, right,

498
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: the war on drugs.

499
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 5: Exactly.

500
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 4: And after they created this war on drugs here in

501
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 4: the US, they exported that model into Columbia first with

502
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 4: the Plan Columbia, the Columbian Plan, and then to other

503
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 4: Latin American countries, and then finally they exported the same

504
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 4: system into Mexico and it became an international business because

505
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 4: there were a lot of companies and a lot of

506
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 4: people selling things around this war. So, in the context

507
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 4: of that so called war on drugs, the US has

508
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 4: sent to Mexico more than three billion dollars of US

509
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 4: taxpayers money to prevent the drugs to come into the US.

510
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: You know, it is wild to think about that huge number, right,

511
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: We're talking about billions, and like more than that, to

512
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: think that despite the enormous investment of the United States

513
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: in Mexico's so called war on drugs, that more than

514
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: nine hundred thousand people have died from drug overdoses in

515
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: the United States since nineteen ninety nine. I mean that

516
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: is also a huge number. That's almost a million people

517
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: who have lost their lives at a time when there's

518
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: supposedly a war on drugs to protect them. It doesn't

519
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: make sense.

520
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 4: And at the same time, during that time, the criminal

521
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 4: organizations based in Mexico has become one of the largest

522
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 4: organizations worldwide. They serve right now markets in the Five

523
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 4: Continents and in Mexico. More than three hundred thousand people

524
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 4: have died since the war on drugs were declared because

525
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 4: of the violence.

526
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 3: There's something very faulty and the whole issue of drug

527
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 3: trafficking and using it as a way to make money,

528
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 3: which is that people's lives are in the balance.

529
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 4: I think we can say that the Mexican War on

530
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 4: drugs has been a failure from every side. You look

531
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 4: at it in the US with all the people who

532
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 4: have died for drug overdoses, and in Mexico with all

533
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,719
Speaker 4: the people who have been killed or disappeared in the

534
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 4: midst of the violence and now we have this case

535
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 4: against someone who was close usli in the fight against drugs,

536
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 4: but who is now accused of helping to smuggle drugs

537
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 4: into the United States. And he's not just anybody. He

538
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 4: is the highest ranking Mexican second official ever to be

539
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 4: put on trial for a crime like this.

540
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 5: But again, this is happening a.

541
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 4: Decade after he left office, after the department he was

542
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,719
Speaker 4: leading received all those millions of US taxpayer dollars after

543
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 4: he moved to Miami to leave a millionaire lifestyle. So

544
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty, Roberta Jacobson was asked about this case

545
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 4: by a journalist from processor, a Mexican magazine. And Roberta,

546
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 4: for those who don't know, was the director of the

547
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 4: US State Department's Office for Mexican Affairs when Garcia Juna

548
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 4: was in power, and later she was the US ambassador

549
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 4: to Mexico.

550
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 5: This is what she said.

551
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 8: We all wanted about corruption, including about corruption by Garcia Luna.

552
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 2: But I say, it takes steps to.

553
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 8: Try and insure it doesn't effect what you're doing. When

554
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 8: obviously Garcialuna was comple involved.

555
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: In NY Day operational activities.

556
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 5: So that's pretty disturbing.

557
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: I mean, what are you talking about You're battling corruption,

558
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: you're taking on the drug war. I mean, this is

559
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: really hugely problematic. And by the way, ROBERTA. Jacobson deeply

560
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: respected in international politics. So when you hear words like this,

561
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: which is like, well, you.

562
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 3: Know, we're worried about corruption, including from him, it's like wow,

563
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 3: so you're just worried about it?

564
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 4: And then she says, I mean, obviously Garcia Luna was

565
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 4: deeply involved in day to day operational activities, so it

566
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 4: was pretty disturbing. So you were disturbed when when you

567
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 4: covered that, when you were working with him, when he

568
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 4: was arrested or when I.

569
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: Mean yeah, like when exactly were you disturbed by the

570
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: alleged corruption that you saw all around Garcia Luna?

571
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 5: When right?

572
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 4: And we actually try to talk to her for this podcast,

573
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 4: but she didn't respond to our request for comment. So

574
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 4: in this podcast, I'm going to share with you, Maria

575
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 4: and with our listener everything I have found about Garcia

576
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 4: Luna after investigating him for teen years. So who is

577
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 4: this guy? Why the US trusted him?

578
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 5: How could he.

579
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 4: Work with El Chapos cartel for so long as he

580
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 4: is accused of doing? Right now and nobody ever stopped him.

581
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 4: It is important that we do this, Maria, because his

582
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 4: defense is counting on nobody caring about this trial. In April,

583
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 4: Garcia Luna's defense here in New York compared his upcoming

584
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 4: trial with El Chapos trial.

585
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 5: This is a dramatic read of the motion they filed.

586
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 6: The scale of coverage will not be president at Hanaro

587
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 6: Garcia Luna's trial. He's a retired Mexican public official, virtually

588
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 6: known in the United States outside the group of American

589
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 6: diplomats and government officials that worked with him to combat

590
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 6: the cartels.

591
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 4: The defense is counting on that the American news media

592
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 4: will not cover this trial at all because he's just

593
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 4: a retired Mexican government official and he's beautifully unknown in

594
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 4: the United States.

595
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: Except after we're done with everything that we're going to

596
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: talk about in this podcast, everybody is going to know

597
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: about who Garcieluna is. Because yes, the United States can

598
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: put Garcia Luna on trial, and yes we're going to

599
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: follow that trial closely. But with this series, I think

600
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: you and I, Benny, what we're trying to do is

601
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: hold both of our countries accountable.

602
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:49,919
Speaker 6: Right.

603
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: We want to ask the questions that might not be

604
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 1: asked in Garcia Luna's trial, might not be asked even

605
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: by the mainstream media at all, because corruption doesn't exist

606
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: just in other countries, right, It doesn't just exist in Mexico.

607
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: The thing is, for me, this story is about revealing

608
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: that corruption exists right here in something as deep and

609
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: as profound and as emotional and dramatic and as expensive

610
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: as the war on drugs that US taxpayers like me

611
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: and like you, dear listener, have been funding here in

612
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: the United States and in other countries. And the United

613
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: States can't say that it's trying to purge the world

614
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: of a bad Mexican government official with this trial. No,

615
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: the United States has to look inwards too. Garcia Luna

616
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 1: underscore was working with US government officials. How exactly did

617
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: he do that?

618
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 4: And we will tell you that and so much more

619
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 4: so stay tuned, salute.

620
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 2: On the next episode a USA Versus Garcia Luna.

621
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 4: He told me for my book that Garcia Luna allowed

622
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 4: the DA to go practically everywhere they wanted in Mexico.

623
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 5: But this is illegal.

624
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: Do you think that he was arrested in retaliation for

625
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: the fact that he was pointing a finger at Henardo

626
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: Garcia Luna.

627
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 5: What did the US Embassy do after?

628
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 4: According to a Rera Bais they met, What happened with

629
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,439
Speaker 4: the investigation into Garcia Luna and why it didn't raise

630
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 4: more alarms?

631
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 2: USA Versus Garcia Luna is an original production by Futuro Investigates,

632
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 2: a division of Futuro Media in collaboration with Latino USA.

633
00:37:58,080 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 5: Lemonlara Media is.

634
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: Our advertise and distribution partner. Our hosts are Maria Njosa

635
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 2: and Penile Ramirez, executive producers of Futuro Inojosa, the Investigations

636
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 2: and Special Project's division of Futuro Media. The series is

637
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 2: edited by Andrea Lopez Grussavo. Our associate producers are Roxanna

638
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: guire Sofia Sanchez and Oscar de Leon. Fact checking by

639
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 2: Amy Tardif, Nancy Trujuigo and Raoult Perez are our project managers.

640
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Julio Ricardoarella, Fernanda Santos, Mike Sargent, Norsadi,

641
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: Roxanne Scott and Juan Diego Ramirez for their notes on

642
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 2: this episode. Our engineers are Stefanie Lebaud, Julia Caruso and

643
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 2: Leasha Damron. Original theme song by Jacob Rizzari. This series

644
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 2: was made possible with support from the W. K. Kellogg Foundation,

645
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 2: Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, and Hispanics in Philanthropy. You can listen

646
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,240
Speaker 2: to USA Versus Garcia Luna wherever you get your podcasts

647
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 2: and on our website Puturo Investigates dot org. That's Futuro

648
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 2: Investigates dot org. Visit our site to find more information

649
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: on USA Versus Garscia Luna. We contacted or attempted to

650
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: contact all the individuals and entities mentioned in this episode.

651
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 2: Some could not be reached or declined to comment, and

652
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 2: others did not reply to our emails or phone calls.

653
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 2: The answers we did receive are included in this episode