Speaker 1: Hey, Vicky, you have two sons and two dogs, So
Speaker 1: here's a question which of them is more expensive? The
Speaker 1: dogs food is crazy expensive, but the boys are growing,
Speaker 1: so I feed them sometimes too. From Bloomberg News and iHeartRadio,
Speaker 1: it's the Big Take. I'm Westkasova today. How much are
Speaker 1: you spending on your pet? When the conversation turns to pets,
Speaker 1: and at some point it just always does. After the
Speaker 1: phones come out and the photos are passed around animals
Speaker 1: and send them to you all, Oh my god, how cute.
Speaker 1: It's only a matter of time before it's all about
Speaker 1: how much the care and upkeep of dogs and cats costs.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what happened when the Big Take crew was
Speaker 1: putting together this episode. My cat's son, Sylvie, costs a
Speaker 1: lot when it comes to diet. He's on a prescription
Speaker 1: diet because he is allergic to everything, and that food
Speaker 1: went up fourteen dollars over the last ten months or so.
Speaker 1: So it used to be seventy seven. Now it's ninety
Speaker 1: one ninety one dollars Katherine for food. Yep, And that
Speaker 1: might sound bad already, but something to know about Sylvie
Speaker 1: is that he of course hates his prescription food. So
Speaker 1: I spend about twenty dollars a month extra buying things
Speaker 1: to sort of doctor up the bowl, like treats, beef toppings.
Speaker 1: We're trying a new beef broth this week. Funnily enough, Katherine,
Speaker 1: my cat, too, has a broth obsession. So Wednesday is
Speaker 1: my cat. She's a Persian cat. She has the classic
Speaker 1: grumpy flat face. Basically, I have to give her this
Speaker 1: thing called lycene. It's like an immune support. So what
Speaker 1: I do is I take a little scoop of lycene
Speaker 1: and I mix it into the broth. And the broths
Speaker 1: are not cheap. It's a liquid and it has solids.
Speaker 1: She doesn't eat the solids, and I know that's what
Speaker 1: keeps the cost up. Wow, I lucked out. I have
Speaker 1: a three legged rescue dog named Ig. She's a little angel.
Speaker 1: She's not picky at all food wise. She'll eat whatever
Speaker 1: you put in front of her. But that has also
Speaker 1: gotten us into trouble because somehow, three legged or not,
Speaker 1: she managed to get up on the counter while we
Speaker 1: were gone one day and I had just bought a
Speaker 1: bag of currants to try on my oatmeal. I was excited.
Speaker 1: I was like dried fruit on oatmeal. I'm going to go.
Speaker 1: And we come back home from dinner, my partner and
Speaker 1: I and lo and behold there are currents spread across
Speaker 1: the couch. She ate the whole bag. It's roughly a cup.
Speaker 1: First we're like, oh haha, how quirky. Then we call
Speaker 1: there's apparently a pet poison hotline, so right there, seventy
Speaker 1: five right off the bat. So we get on the
Speaker 1: phone and the person goes, okay, there are two options here,
Speaker 1: one totally harmless, totally fine, option two. Three of them
Speaker 1: will poison her. So then we had to go to
Speaker 1: the emergency Vet, which, upfront, I think I had to
Speaker 1: put something like twenty five hundred dollars on my card
Speaker 1: for them to even do anything. It luckily ended up
Speaker 1: only being thirteen hundred, so a bargain. Yeah, I will say.
Speaker 1: I've also had my poor pup astro who ate something.
Speaker 1: We still don't know what it was, but yeah, trip
Speaker 1: to the emergency Vet and you know, stomach X rays
Speaker 1: and everything out the gate. It was a good fifteen
Speaker 1: hundred at least, And I did have pet insurance, so
Speaker 1: that covered some of it, but that pet insurance does
Speaker 1: not cover the three hundred dollars a year bill just
Speaker 1: to get a wellness check. When I adopted my dog Astro,
Speaker 1: it was required by the adoption agency that I get
Speaker 1: pet insurance for him. So it started off thirty five
Speaker 1: bucks a month, but then he had that whole issue
Speaker 1: where he ate some thing we weren't sure what it was.
Speaker 1: After that, the monthly premium went way up and it's
Speaker 1: almost double, So it's great if you don't need it. Okay,
Speaker 1: what's the strangest pet expense you've come across. My best
Speaker 1: friend has an exotic short hair cat named Pistachio Muffin,
Speaker 1: and he, much like my beloved persian Wednesday, has a
Speaker 1: flat face. One vet said that he had never seen
Speaker 1: nostrils on a cat so small, and those small nostrils
Speaker 1: led to breathing issues, respiratory issues, and it was just
Speaker 1: a bad time for a little Pistachio. So the vet suggested,
Speaker 1: you can get the nostrils widened. There are surgeons that
Speaker 1: will do this. A cat knows job. A cat knows job.
Speaker 1: Of course, the only surgeon was on the upper east side,
Speaker 1: and for this nostril widening surgery, it was twelve hundred
Speaker 1: dollars so, given how much all of your dogs and
Speaker 1: cats are draining your bank accounts, do you have any regrets?
Speaker 1: Would you give them up? Would you not get them
Speaker 1: if you knew what you were in for? Never? They
Speaker 1: bring me so much joy it's worth every cent. I
Speaker 1: used to think that the amount of money people spent
Speaker 1: on their pets was absurd until I adopted Wednesday, And
Speaker 1: now I will gladly go into massive debt to keep
Speaker 1: her happy and healthy. Before adopting i Gie, my partner
Speaker 1: and I sat down and had a budgeting conversation and
Speaker 1: we kind of thought we had an idea of what
Speaker 1: it would be and what our backup plan was should
Speaker 1: the worst happen. And then the Currents happened and we
Speaker 1: were like, oh, now we get it, but no, wouldn't
Speaker 1: give her up, would keep her in a heartbeat. I
Speaker 1: will just never buy Currents again. I'd die for Sylvie
Speaker 1: hands down. Reporters Naka Katan and Brendan Case wondered, if
Speaker 1: each of us is spending so much on our pet,
Speaker 1: how much are we all spending? They set out to
Speaker 1: put a number on what they call the global pet economy.
Speaker 1: So the worldwide pet economy right now is well north
Speaker 1: of three hundred billion dollars, and the next seventy years
Speaker 1: are going to be a big story about growth. Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Intelligence is predicting that that number is going to get
Speaker 1: up to about half a trillion dollars, very close to
Speaker 1: five hundred billion dollars. And you've got the US that
Speaker 1: is accounting for not quite half, but almost half of
Speaker 1: the total. But you've also got growth in Europe, and
Speaker 1: you've got the fastest growth in the rest of the world,
Speaker 1: particularly emerging markets. And so you've got a global trend
Speaker 1: with certainly more pets because of the pandemic, and especially
Speaker 1: in the US, there was an uptick in the population.
Speaker 1: And for each pet, you've got rising average spending because
Speaker 1: of this new collection of services, healthcare and premium products
Speaker 1: that pet owners can buy. Now, I remember when I
Speaker 1: was a kid. Of course people add pets, but they
Speaker 1: weren't taking them to the doctor from our eyes and
Speaker 1: doing a lot of these really intensive medical treatments, buying
Speaker 1: them fancy gourmet food. When did all this start to
Speaker 1: become a really big thing. It's been growing rapidly for
Speaker 1: a long time. It was recession proof during two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven, eight and nine. It was continuing to grow
Speaker 1: through that, but then I think maybe the last ten
Speaker 1: or thirteen years is when the drug companies that we
Speaker 1: interviewed started to notice this is huge. We have this
Speaker 1: great anecdote from Zoetis, which is the largest pet healthcare company,
Speaker 1: saying that their animal livestock portion of their pet business
Speaker 1: used to be sixty four percent and the rest was
Speaker 1: pets and the past ten years that has completely flipped
Speaker 1: to the exact opposite. And why is that? Why are
Speaker 1: people now just spending more on their pets than they
Speaker 1: did before. You just see pets becoming part of the household.
Speaker 1: They're treated as one of the family more and more.
Speaker 1: Then you have the pandemic where there was just a
Speaker 1: huge uptick in pet adoptions, and then add sort of
Speaker 1: the lifestyle of the youngest generations gen Z and millennials
Speaker 1: that are also kind of contributing to more spending, and
Speaker 1: they admit they're spending more on their pets than ever before,
Speaker 1: just you know, before maybe starting families. That's a really
Speaker 1: big part of the story. You know, you get gen Z,
Speaker 1: you get millennials, and statistically they're starting families a little later.
Speaker 1: And if you look at the surveys. They're the ones
Speaker 1: who are out there saying much more than other generations
Speaker 1: that you know, yes, pets are very much part of
Speaker 1: the family. They buy into the whole sort of trend
Speaker 1: towards humanization, and they are willing to spend pretty heavily
Speaker 1: on their cats and dogs and other pets. Brandon, you
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that in the US especially, there was this
Speaker 1: uptick in people getting pets during the pandemic. How big
Speaker 1: an increase was it. The increase in pet ownership was
Speaker 1: one of the big stories in the early stages of
Speaker 1: the pandemic. And what you end up with three years
Speaker 1: down the line is that Morgan Stanley estimates that there
Speaker 1: are about five million more pets in the US as
Speaker 1: of the middle of last year compared with twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1: That's an increase of about four percent. So you've got
Speaker 1: a rising population of companion animals. But it's not just that,
Speaker 1: it's also rising spending on each pet. So to give
Speaker 1: you an idea of the numbers, the Labor Department calculates
Speaker 1: that household pet spending went up about thirteen percent as
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one from twenty nineteen. That thirteen percent
Speaker 1: increase is not quite twice the average rate of inflation
Speaker 1: during that period, but it's close. And so if you
Speaker 1: drilled down into dollar terms, what you see is that
Speaker 1: according to Bloomberg and Tell Legends, it costs about fifteen
Speaker 1: hundred dollars to own a dog that's per year in
Speaker 1: the US, and it costs close to a thousand dollars
Speaker 1: to own a cat. So those numbers maybe on average
Speaker 1: they're right, But everyone we spoke with for this article,
Speaker 1: and everyone I know, spends more than that. So for example,
Speaker 1: we spoke with one woman, Susan Genteel. She's a public
Speaker 1: school teacher who spent about eight thousand dollars or more
Speaker 1: on her dog, Elvis, because sadly, he had a heart condition.
Speaker 1: She was spending on eco cardiograms, she was spending on
Speaker 1: hyperbaric chambers. You know, she's spending a lot of money
Speaker 1: to keep her dog healthy. This is another part of
Speaker 1: what's really taking pet ownership into the next level, you know,
Speaker 1: the next big boom, which is the cost of healthcare
Speaker 1: or the cost of vet services. The fact that a
Speaker 1: lot of the medicine innovation that you're seeing in the
Speaker 1: human health sector are transferring into the animal health sector
Speaker 1: more with Brendan and Naka when we come back Knacka.
Speaker 1: Before the break, you were talking about how more and
Speaker 1: more expensive medical procedures for pets are becoming the norm. Now,
Speaker 1: what are some of these procedures that people are having
Speaker 1: done on their animals that they just didn't do in
Speaker 1: past years. I mentioned echo cardiograms. There are also a
Speaker 1: ton of innovative medicines that have just been approved for
Speaker 1: these sort of big pharma companies. They sort of have
Speaker 1: their roots in big pharma, and then some of them
Speaker 1: spun off and became just focused on pets. So you
Speaker 1: could be treated for osteoarthritis using monoclonal antibodies, which was used,
Speaker 1: for example, to fight COVID. And then there are top
Speaker 1: line diabetes drugs that you can find now used for pets.
Speaker 1: And in these that we spoke with a woman whose
Speaker 1: dog had a heart condition. She was telling us that
Speaker 1: she used the same medication for her dog, Elvis, that
Speaker 1: her father took, so she would give half a pill
Speaker 1: to Elvis and her dad would take a full pill.
Speaker 1: It's not just medicine, it's also a lot more scans,
Speaker 1: like the electrocardiogram. Now I was talking about Another example
Speaker 1: is an MRI. One of the people we talked to
Speaker 1: said that, you know, time was maybe ten, fifteen, twenty
Speaker 1: years ago. If you lived near a sort of a
Speaker 1: teaching hospital veterinary medicine, then yeah, you could probably get
Speaker 1: an MRI, but not many people did. Now that's a
Speaker 1: service that you can essentially walk in and get. The
Speaker 1: downside is that it's going to set you back, you know,
Speaker 1: two thousand dollars or more. What would have happened to
Speaker 1: a dog like Elvis five years ago, ten years ago?
Speaker 1: Was there any kind of treatment like this, let alone
Speaker 1: the kind of diagnostics that are very common for pets
Speaker 1: these days, you know, for a dog like Elvis and
Speaker 1: for a lot of pets out there, the sad answer
Speaker 1: is probably that they would have died earlier. And I
Speaker 1: think that you have elements of some people being more
Speaker 1: willing to spend a lot on advanced treatments. You also
Speaker 1: have a situation where these advanced treatments are out there,
Speaker 1: and yes, the providers do want to, you know, use
Speaker 1: the expensive equipment to provide the best service they can.
Speaker 1: If you talk with some vets, I think that one
Speaker 1: lesson you come away with is that they you know,
Speaker 1: they do have the issue of affordability in mind. It's
Speaker 1: something that they struggle with as well. But the fact
Speaker 1: remains that there certainly are people out there, you know,
Speaker 1: pet owners who are demanding those services. And so you've
Speaker 1: got the veterinary medicine industry that is, you know, adjusting
Speaker 1: to provide them and take advantage of a lot of
Speaker 1: the technology that they can bring to bear. And there
Speaker 1: are lots of surveys about just how close families feel
Speaker 1: to their pets. Above ninety percent feel that their pets
Speaker 1: are part of their family or one of their children.
Speaker 1: Almost above eighty eighty five percent or so say they
Speaker 1: would spend any amount of money to care for their
Speaker 1: pets no matter what. And I think that was one
Speaker 1: of the most surprising things you mentioned, Wes, is just
Speaker 1: how much people are willing to spend, and with the
Speaker 1: available services and diagnostics and drugs out there, they can
Speaker 1: do that now. And it's interesting what I also found
Speaker 1: a lot of times people almost underestimate how much they've spent,
Speaker 1: and when you ask them to itemize it, it's a
Speaker 1: lot higher than they expected. Yeah, well, you know, Elvis
Speaker 1: himself had a nine hundred electro cardiogram an MRI goes
Speaker 1: for two thousand dollars or more. And that's according to
Speaker 1: a group called the Pet Fund that exists to try
Speaker 1: to help people pay for care that they can't afford
Speaker 1: on their own. And if you talk with them, they
Speaker 1: say that it used to be once in a blue
Speaker 1: moon you would see a ten thousand dollars price tag
Speaker 1: for total care of an animal having a serious health problem.
Speaker 1: That we're told is becoming increasingly common. And in fact,
Speaker 1: the people running the Pet Fund have seen bills that
Speaker 1: range as high as twenty thousand or thirty thousand. Right
Speaker 1: we have in our story the largest insurance claim was
Speaker 1: at fifty thousand dollars for a dog that was run
Speaker 1: over in Brooklyn. And you mentioned insurance, which is another
Speaker 1: big component in this is that a lot of people,
Speaker 1: in order to pay for this, or in anticipation of
Speaker 1: having an illness that could cost a lot of money,
Speaker 1: are buying insurance. How does that work? How does pet
Speaker 1: insurance work? So there's an annual premium and then the
Speaker 1: deductibles and then the out of pocket and we actually
Speaker 1: have Bloomberg Intelligence doing some of the math coming up
Speaker 1: with an average number. So if a cancer treatment can
Speaker 1: cost eight thousand or ten thousand dollars. At the end
Speaker 1: of the year, the total expenses under insurance can be
Speaker 1: maybe twenty seven hundred. But there are a lot of
Speaker 1: people who do say that the premiums are very high.
Speaker 1: In Susan gent Til's case, she said that her dog
Speaker 1: was too old at the point where she wanted to
Speaker 1: get insurance, so it was too expensive. And in general,
Speaker 1: I think, you know, the entire market is about three
Speaker 1: percent of pets are insured, so that actually opens things
Speaker 1: up for huge growth in that sector. So the thing
Speaker 1: about pet insurance is that you do want to go
Speaker 1: in with your eyes open. This is an industry that's
Speaker 1: bringing in about two point six billion dollars in annual
Speaker 1: premiums right now. That's up from a billion dollars in
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. But if you look at the numbers, you know,
Speaker 1: it really depends on the individual case whether it's worth it.
Speaker 1: You know, the average for a dog if you want
Speaker 1: accident and illness coverage is almost six hundred dollars, And
Speaker 1: there are some people out there who say, you know
Speaker 1: better to take that money, set it aside for future
Speaker 1: care for the animal, and just pay with cash. Others
Speaker 1: obviously are deciding that they do want the coverage, but
Speaker 1: it'll come with a pretty high deductible, and so they'll
Speaker 1: still have to pay out of pocket a fairly significant amount.
Speaker 1: Are we already starting to see elective procedures for pets,
Speaker 1: you know, cosmetic surgery, things that aren't purely medical but
Speaker 1: are just done to, I don't know, make your dog
Speaker 1: look better. Certainly, there's a lot of gray area, first
Speaker 1: of all. And then there is the world of what
Speaker 1: you might call plastic surgery for animals. It's kind of
Speaker 1: a famous example, which are called neuticals. These are testicular
Speaker 1: implants for dogs that you can buy if you have
Speaker 1: your dog neutered, but you kind of want to have
Speaker 1: them keep the preoperation. Look, there's a market for this, okay,
Speaker 1: and a pretty good one apparently. You know, this is
Speaker 1: a company that seems to be doing okay for itself.
Speaker 1: There's a famous example the actor Jake Jillenhall. He was
Speaker 1: on The Tonight Show and he said that he got
Speaker 1: a pair of nuticals for a German shepherd should get uticals.
Speaker 1: Do you know what those are? I'm a no. I
Speaker 1: could guess maybe, but they're prosthetic testicles. Anyway, long story short,
Speaker 1: he has muticals. This is not elective surgery, but it's
Speaker 1: in the realm of psychological costs. We found a lot
Speaker 1: of owners I spoke with put their pets on doggy
Speaker 1: prozac because they had behavioral issues, anxiety, a lot of anxiety,
Speaker 1: and neighbors filed complaints. You know, some pretty difficult experiences
Speaker 1: that pet owners say is not talked about a lot,
Speaker 1: and so they had to put their dogs on prozac
Speaker 1: or put them into daycare training, and so those costs
Speaker 1: can rise to almost as much as you know, a
Speaker 1: heart condition. We'll be right back gren. We've been talking
Speaker 1: about how pet ownership in the amount of money people
Speaker 1: spend on their pets, are going up. But there's also
Speaker 1: the opposite happening, which is a lot more people, especially
Speaker 1: who got a pet during the pandemic, are trying to
Speaker 1: return them or finding new homes because they just can't
Speaker 1: keep up. Yeah, you are starting to see that. And
Speaker 1: what you see in the data such as it is
Speaker 1: because again you know, the data here is not quite
Speaker 1: as clean as with human activities. But if you look
Speaker 1: at numbers compiled by a group called Shelter animals count.
Speaker 1: You're certainly seeing an uptick in most states in what
Speaker 1: are called pet surrenders compared with the early days of
Speaker 1: the pandemic. There's an important caveat there, though, which is
Speaker 1: that by and large those numbers are lower than they
Speaker 1: we're in twenty nineteen, and so it's not quite right yet,
Speaker 1: at least to say that there's a bunch of people
Speaker 1: who ran out and got pets during the pandemic and
Speaker 1: now they just can't deal with them. Certainly, that description
Speaker 1: fits the case of some people, from many others, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that they're, you know, at least compared with
Speaker 1: pre pandemic levels, seem able to keep their pets at
Speaker 1: home and seem happy. And I think actually that's it's
Speaker 1: a really clear sign that pet owners are willing to
Speaker 1: go very far to keep their pets, even if for
Speaker 1: whatever reason it was, they might want to rehome their pets.
Speaker 1: You might have the numbers taking up from the start
Speaker 1: of the pandemic, but we're still not at twenty nineteen levels.
Speaker 1: You know, that trend toward humanization and doing whatever you
Speaker 1: can to make sure your pet is healthy and happy
Speaker 1: and stays with you, that I think will continue, and
Speaker 1: that's perhaps where this market will continue to head towards
Speaker 1: the half trillion target. That's right, and the short term
Speaker 1: there is a bit of a question mark just from
Speaker 1: the economy. There's obviously a lot of economic uncertainty out there,
Speaker 1: and it is the case that when the economy worsens,
Speaker 1: there are more people who look to rehome their pets.
Speaker 1: Whether the economy will worsen to that extent, whether people
Speaker 1: will react with the same historical pattern, all that remains
Speaker 1: to be seen. But it's a big question mark. As
Speaker 1: we go through the rest of this year, we hear
Speaker 1: from the drug company saying that costs spent on healthcare
Speaker 1: are sticky right their very recession resilient, and so people
Speaker 1: would decide to lower their costs in some other area
Speaker 1: a cheaper car or fewer clothes sooner than actually taking
Speaker 1: away bending on a pet. As you're reporting on this
Speaker 1: booming industry that, as you describe, is only going to
Speaker 1: get bigger and bigger, what are you looking for? What
Speaker 1: are the trends down the road that you're keeping your
Speaker 1: eye on. I'm interested in how human health is trickling
Speaker 1: down into pet health, especially because it takes a lot
Speaker 1: shorter to go through the approval process FDA approval process
Speaker 1: to get a new drug for a pet, and so
Speaker 1: eventually we might see innovation first hitting the pet market
Speaker 1: before the human market. Yeah, there's a lot of research
Speaker 1: out there on dog aging for a number of reasons,
Speaker 1: one of which is that dogs have shorter lifespans, and
Speaker 1: so a human researcher can track multiple generations of dogs
Speaker 1: over the course of a career. There's something called the
Speaker 1: Dog Aging Project, which is based out of the University
Speaker 1: of Washington and Texas A and M University. It's got
Speaker 1: forty four thousand dogs enrolled, where the dog owners fill
Speaker 1: out questionnaires keep track of their pets health and behavior.
Speaker 1: The hope is that over time they start to generate
Speaker 1: insights into how dog's age, which genes age the best.
Speaker 1: It's even conceivable that there could be some insights from
Speaker 1: that project coming into human health, and you know, there's
Speaker 1: startups out there with plans to do something similar. You
Speaker 1: could see a number of so called anti aging drugs
Speaker 1: on the market within three four years potentially, So that's
Speaker 1: definitely one thing to watch. Another thing that I'd keep
Speaker 1: my eye on is whether the assumption that people will
Speaker 1: keep accepting higher prices. In fact, turns out to be right.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of money behind these industries, right Like
Speaker 1: Mars Incorporated, the candy bar Company is one of the
Speaker 1: big investors in veterinary services. And the bet there is
Speaker 1: that humanization trend rising incomes greater supply of pricier options
Speaker 1: for pet care. You know, the bet is that those
Speaker 1: will all combine and give this very robust annual average
Speaker 1: growth over the next five, seven, ten years. But there's
Speaker 1: a lot that could go wrong too, you know. It
Speaker 1: could be that people just can't hack it, particularly in
Speaker 1: the middle or lower income levels. Could be that demand
Speaker 1: isn't quite where they're expecting it to be. But right now,
Speaker 1: the people putting money at risk here are definitely expecting
Speaker 1: these numbers to keep rising pretty quickly in terms of spending.
Speaker 1: Brendan and Naka I think it's important for our listeners
Speaker 1: to know your bias dog or cat. Cat. My wife
Speaker 1: and my kids know that more of a cat person,
Speaker 1: but we do have two cats and two dogs. Our
Speaker 1: house is a bit of a zoo and we love
Speaker 1: them all. And Naka I grew up with a dog
Speaker 1: and it would have to be dog again. Na time,
Speaker 1: Brendan Case, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having us, Thanks for having us.
Speaker 1: Thanks to Rebecca chass On, Catherine Think, Sam Gobauer, and
Speaker 1: Vicky Bergolina for sharing their cat and dog stories. And
Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening to us. Here The Big Take.
Speaker 1: It's a daily podcast asked from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For
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Speaker 1: hear from you. Email us questions or comments to Big
Speaker 1: Take at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of The
Speaker 1: Big Take is Vicky Bergolina. Our senior producer is Katherine Fink.
Speaker 1: Our producer is Rebecca Chasson. Our associate producer is Sam Gabauer.
Speaker 1: Hilde Garcia is our engineer. Our original music was composed
Speaker 1: by Leo Sidrin. I'm West Kasova. We'll be back on
Speaker 1: Monday with another Big Take. Have a great weekend.