1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Hey, Vicky, you have two sons and two dogs, So 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: here's a question which of them is more expensive? The 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: dogs food is crazy expensive, but the boys are growing, 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: so I feed them sometimes too. From Bloomberg News and iHeartRadio, 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: it's the Big Take. I'm Westkasova today. How much are 6 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: you spending on your pet? When the conversation turns to pets, 7 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: and at some point it just always does. After the 8 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: phones come out and the photos are passed around animals 9 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: and send them to you all, Oh my god, how cute. 10 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: It's only a matter of time before it's all about 11 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: how much the care and upkeep of dogs and cats costs. 12 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: That's exactly what happened when the Big Take crew was 13 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: putting together this episode. My cat's son, Sylvie, costs a 14 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: lot when it comes to diet. He's on a prescription 15 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: diet because he is allergic to everything, and that food 16 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: went up fourteen dollars over the last ten months or so. 17 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: So it used to be seventy seven. Now it's ninety 18 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: one ninety one dollars Katherine for food. Yep, And that 19 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: might sound bad already, but something to know about Sylvie 20 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: is that he of course hates his prescription food. So 21 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,639 Speaker 1: I spend about twenty dollars a month extra buying things 22 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: to sort of doctor up the bowl, like treats, beef toppings. 23 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: We're trying a new beef broth this week. Funnily enough, Katherine, 24 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: my cat, too, has a broth obsession. So Wednesday is 25 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: my cat. She's a Persian cat. She has the classic 26 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: grumpy flat face. Basically, I have to give her this 27 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: thing called lycene. It's like an immune support. So what 28 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: I do is I take a little scoop of lycene 29 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: and I mix it into the broth. And the broths 30 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: are not cheap. It's a liquid and it has solids. 31 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: She doesn't eat the solids, and I know that's what 32 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,679 Speaker 1: keeps the cost up. Wow, I lucked out. I have 33 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: a three legged rescue dog named Ig. She's a little angel. 34 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,679 Speaker 1: She's not picky at all food wise. She'll eat whatever 35 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: you put in front of her. But that has also 36 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: gotten us into trouble because somehow, three legged or not, 37 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: she managed to get up on the counter while we 38 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: were gone one day and I had just bought a 39 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: bag of currants to try on my oatmeal. I was excited. 40 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: I was like dried fruit on oatmeal. I'm going to go. 41 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: And we come back home from dinner, my partner and 42 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: I and lo and behold there are currents spread across 43 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: the couch. She ate the whole bag. It's roughly a cup. 44 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: First we're like, oh haha, how quirky. Then we call 45 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: there's apparently a pet poison hotline, so right there, seventy 46 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: five right off the bat. So we get on the 47 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: phone and the person goes, okay, there are two options here, 48 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: one totally harmless, totally fine, option two. Three of them 49 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: will poison her. So then we had to go to 50 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 1: the emergency Vet, which, upfront, I think I had to 51 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: put something like twenty five hundred dollars on my card 52 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 1: for them to even do anything. It luckily ended up 53 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: only being thirteen hundred, so a bargain. Yeah, I will say. 54 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 1: I've also had my poor pup astro who ate something. 55 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,399 Speaker 1: We still don't know what it was, but yeah, trip 56 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: to the emergency Vet and you know, stomach X rays 57 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: and everything out the gate. It was a good fifteen 58 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: hundred at least, And I did have pet insurance, so 59 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: that covered some of it, but that pet insurance does 60 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: not cover the three hundred dollars a year bill just 61 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: to get a wellness check. When I adopted my dog Astro, 62 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: it was required by the adoption agency that I get 63 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: pet insurance for him. So it started off thirty five 64 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: bucks a month, but then he had that whole issue 65 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: where he ate some thing we weren't sure what it was. 66 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: After that, the monthly premium went way up and it's 67 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: almost double, So it's great if you don't need it. Okay, 68 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: what's the strangest pet expense you've come across. My best 69 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: friend has an exotic short hair cat named Pistachio Muffin, 70 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: and he, much like my beloved persian Wednesday, has a 71 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: flat face. One vet said that he had never seen 72 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: nostrils on a cat so small, and those small nostrils 73 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: led to breathing issues, respiratory issues, and it was just 74 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: a bad time for a little Pistachio. So the vet suggested, 75 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: you can get the nostrils widened. There are surgeons that 76 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: will do this. A cat knows job. A cat knows job. 77 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: Of course, the only surgeon was on the upper east side, 78 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: and for this nostril widening surgery, it was twelve hundred 79 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: dollars so, given how much all of your dogs and 80 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,239 Speaker 1: cats are draining your bank accounts, do you have any regrets? 81 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: Would you give them up? Would you not get them 82 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: if you knew what you were in for? Never? They 83 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: bring me so much joy it's worth every cent. I 84 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: used to think that the amount of money people spent 85 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: on their pets was absurd until I adopted Wednesday, And 86 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: now I will gladly go into massive debt to keep 87 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: her happy and healthy. Before adopting i Gie, my partner 88 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: and I sat down and had a budgeting conversation and 89 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: we kind of thought we had an idea of what 90 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: it would be and what our backup plan was should 91 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: the worst happen. And then the Currents happened and we 92 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: were like, oh, now we get it, but no, wouldn't 93 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: give her up, would keep her in a heartbeat. I 94 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: will just never buy Currents again. I'd die for Sylvie 95 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: hands down. Reporters Naka Katan and Brendan Case wondered, if 96 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: each of us is spending so much on our pet, 97 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: how much are we all spending? They set out to 98 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: put a number on what they call the global pet economy. 99 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: So the worldwide pet economy right now is well north 100 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: of three hundred billion dollars, and the next seventy years 101 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: are going to be a big story about growth. Bloomberg 102 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: Intelligence is predicting that that number is going to get 103 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: up to about half a trillion dollars, very close to 104 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: five hundred billion dollars. And you've got the US that 105 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: is accounting for not quite half, but almost half of 106 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: the total. But you've also got growth in Europe, and 107 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: you've got the fastest growth in the rest of the world, 108 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: particularly emerging markets. And so you've got a global trend 109 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: with certainly more pets because of the pandemic, and especially 110 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: in the US, there was an uptick in the population. 111 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: And for each pet, you've got rising average spending because 112 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: of this new collection of services, healthcare and premium products 113 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: that pet owners can buy. Now, I remember when I 114 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: was a kid. Of course people add pets, but they 115 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: weren't taking them to the doctor from our eyes and 116 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: doing a lot of these really intensive medical treatments, buying 117 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: them fancy gourmet food. When did all this start to 118 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: become a really big thing. It's been growing rapidly for 119 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: a long time. It was recession proof during two thousand 120 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: and seven, eight and nine. It was continuing to grow 121 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: through that, but then I think maybe the last ten 122 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: or thirteen years is when the drug companies that we 123 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: interviewed started to notice this is huge. We have this 124 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: great anecdote from Zoetis, which is the largest pet healthcare company, 125 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: saying that their animal livestock portion of their pet business 126 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: used to be sixty four percent and the rest was 127 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: pets and the past ten years that has completely flipped 128 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: to the exact opposite. And why is that? Why are 129 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: people now just spending more on their pets than they 130 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: did before. You just see pets becoming part of the household. 131 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: They're treated as one of the family more and more. 132 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: Then you have the pandemic where there was just a 133 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: huge uptick in pet adoptions, and then add sort of 134 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: the lifestyle of the youngest generations gen Z and millennials 135 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: that are also kind of contributing to more spending, and 136 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,119 Speaker 1: they admit they're spending more on their pets than ever before, 137 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: just you know, before maybe starting families. That's a really 138 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: big part of the story. You know, you get gen Z, 139 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: you get millennials, and statistically they're starting families a little later. 140 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: And if you look at the surveys. They're the ones 141 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: who are out there saying much more than other generations 142 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 1: that you know, yes, pets are very much part of 143 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: the family. They buy into the whole sort of trend 144 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: towards humanization, and they are willing to spend pretty heavily 145 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,599 Speaker 1: on their cats and dogs and other pets. Brandon, you 146 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that in the US especially, there was this 147 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: uptick in people getting pets during the pandemic. How big 148 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 1: an increase was it. The increase in pet ownership was 149 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: one of the big stories in the early stages of 150 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: the pandemic. And what you end up with three years 151 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: down the line is that Morgan Stanley estimates that there 152 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: are about five million more pets in the US as 153 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: of the middle of last year compared with twenty nineteen. 154 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: That's an increase of about four percent. So you've got 155 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: a rising population of companion animals. But it's not just that, 156 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: it's also rising spending on each pet. So to give 157 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,359 Speaker 1: you an idea of the numbers, the Labor Department calculates 158 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: that household pet spending went up about thirteen percent as 159 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one from twenty nineteen. That thirteen percent 160 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: increase is not quite twice the average rate of inflation 161 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 1: during that period, but it's close. And so if you 162 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: drilled down into dollar terms, what you see is that 163 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: according to Bloomberg and Tell Legends, it costs about fifteen 164 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: hundred dollars to own a dog that's per year in 165 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: the US, and it costs close to a thousand dollars 166 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: to own a cat. So those numbers maybe on average 167 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 1: they're right, But everyone we spoke with for this article, 168 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: and everyone I know, spends more than that. So for example, 169 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: we spoke with one woman, Susan Genteel. She's a public 170 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: school teacher who spent about eight thousand dollars or more 171 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: on her dog, Elvis, because sadly, he had a heart condition. 172 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: She was spending on eco cardiograms, she was spending on 173 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: hyperbaric chambers. You know, she's spending a lot of money 174 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 1: to keep her dog healthy. This is another part of 175 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: what's really taking pet ownership into the next level, you know, 176 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: the next big boom, which is the cost of healthcare 177 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: or the cost of vet services. The fact that a 178 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: lot of the medicine innovation that you're seeing in the 179 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: human health sector are transferring into the animal health sector 180 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: more with Brendan and Naka when we come back Knacka. 181 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 1: Before the break, you were talking about how more and 182 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: more expensive medical procedures for pets are becoming the norm. Now, 183 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: what are some of these procedures that people are having 184 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: done on their animals that they just didn't do in 185 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: past years. I mentioned echo cardiograms. There are also a 186 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,599 Speaker 1: ton of innovative medicines that have just been approved for 187 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: these sort of big pharma companies. They sort of have 188 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: their roots in big pharma, and then some of them 189 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: spun off and became just focused on pets. So you 190 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: could be treated for osteoarthritis using monoclonal antibodies, which was used, 191 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: for example, to fight COVID. And then there are top 192 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: line diabetes drugs that you can find now used for pets. 193 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: And in these that we spoke with a woman whose 194 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: dog had a heart condition. She was telling us that 195 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: she used the same medication for her dog, Elvis, that 196 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: her father took, so she would give half a pill 197 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: to Elvis and her dad would take a full pill. 198 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: It's not just medicine, it's also a lot more scans, 199 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 1: like the electrocardiogram. Now I was talking about Another example 200 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 1: is an MRI. One of the people we talked to 201 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: said that, you know, time was maybe ten, fifteen, twenty 202 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 1: years ago. If you lived near a sort of a 203 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: teaching hospital veterinary medicine, then yeah, you could probably get 204 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: an MRI, but not many people did. Now that's a 205 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 1: service that you can essentially walk in and get. The 206 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 1: downside is that it's going to set you back, you know, 207 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,599 Speaker 1: two thousand dollars or more. What would have happened to 208 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: a dog like Elvis five years ago, ten years ago? 209 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: Was there any kind of treatment like this, let alone 210 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: the kind of diagnostics that are very common for pets 211 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: these days, you know, for a dog like Elvis and 212 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: for a lot of pets out there, the sad answer 213 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: is probably that they would have died earlier. And I 214 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: think that you have elements of some people being more 215 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: willing to spend a lot on advanced treatments. You also 216 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: have a situation where these advanced treatments are out there, 217 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 1: and yes, the providers do want to, you know, use 218 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: the expensive equipment to provide the best service they can. 219 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 1: If you talk with some vets, I think that one 220 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: lesson you come away with is that they you know, 221 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 1: they do have the issue of affordability in mind. It's 222 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: something that they struggle with as well. But the fact 223 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: remains that there certainly are people out there, you know, 224 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: pet owners who are demanding those services. And so you've 225 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: got the veterinary medicine industry that is, you know, adjusting 226 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,719 Speaker 1: to provide them and take advantage of a lot of 227 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: the technology that they can bring to bear. And there 228 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: are lots of surveys about just how close families feel 229 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: to their pets. Above ninety percent feel that their pets 230 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: are part of their family or one of their children. 231 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: Almost above eighty eighty five percent or so say they 232 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,559 Speaker 1: would spend any amount of money to care for their 233 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: pets no matter what. And I think that was one 234 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: of the most surprising things you mentioned, Wes, is just 235 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: how much people are willing to spend, and with the 236 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: available services and diagnostics and drugs out there, they can 237 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: do that now. And it's interesting what I also found 238 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: a lot of times people almost underestimate how much they've spent, 239 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: and when you ask them to itemize it, it's a 240 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: lot higher than they expected. Yeah, well, you know, Elvis 241 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: himself had a nine hundred electro cardiogram an MRI goes 242 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: for two thousand dollars or more. And that's according to 243 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: a group called the Pet Fund that exists to try 244 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: to help people pay for care that they can't afford 245 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: on their own. And if you talk with them, they 246 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: say that it used to be once in a blue 247 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: moon you would see a ten thousand dollars price tag 248 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: for total care of an animal having a serious health problem. 249 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: That we're told is becoming increasingly common. And in fact, 250 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: the people running the Pet Fund have seen bills that 251 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: range as high as twenty thousand or thirty thousand. Right 252 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: we have in our story the largest insurance claim was 253 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: at fifty thousand dollars for a dog that was run 254 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: over in Brooklyn. And you mentioned insurance, which is another 255 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: big component in this is that a lot of people, 256 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: in order to pay for this, or in anticipation of 257 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: having an illness that could cost a lot of money, 258 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: are buying insurance. How does that work? How does pet 259 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: insurance work? So there's an annual premium and then the 260 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: deductibles and then the out of pocket and we actually 261 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: have Bloomberg Intelligence doing some of the math coming up 262 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: with an average number. So if a cancer treatment can 263 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: cost eight thousand or ten thousand dollars. At the end 264 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: of the year, the total expenses under insurance can be 265 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: maybe twenty seven hundred. But there are a lot of 266 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: people who do say that the premiums are very high. 267 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: In Susan gent Til's case, she said that her dog 268 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: was too old at the point where she wanted to 269 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: get insurance, so it was too expensive. And in general, 270 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: I think, you know, the entire market is about three 271 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: percent of pets are insured, so that actually opens things 272 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: up for huge growth in that sector. So the thing 273 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: about pet insurance is that you do want to go 274 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: in with your eyes open. This is an industry that's 275 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: bringing in about two point six billion dollars in annual 276 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: premiums right now. That's up from a billion dollars in 277 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. But if you look at the numbers, you know, 278 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: it really depends on the individual case whether it's worth it. 279 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: You know, the average for a dog if you want 280 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: accident and illness coverage is almost six hundred dollars, And 281 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: there are some people out there who say, you know 282 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: better to take that money, set it aside for future 283 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: care for the animal, and just pay with cash. Others 284 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: obviously are deciding that they do want the coverage, but 285 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: it'll come with a pretty high deductible, and so they'll 286 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: still have to pay out of pocket a fairly significant amount. 287 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 1: Are we already starting to see elective procedures for pets, 288 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: you know, cosmetic surgery, things that aren't purely medical but 289 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 1: are just done to, I don't know, make your dog 290 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: look better. Certainly, there's a lot of gray area, first 291 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: of all. And then there is the world of what 292 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: you might call plastic surgery for animals. It's kind of 293 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 1: a famous example, which are called neuticals. These are testicular 294 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: implants for dogs that you can buy if you have 295 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: your dog neutered, but you kind of want to have 296 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: them keep the preoperation. Look, there's a market for this, okay, 297 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: and a pretty good one apparently. You know, this is 298 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: a company that seems to be doing okay for itself. 299 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: There's a famous example the actor Jake Jillenhall. He was 300 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: on The Tonight Show and he said that he got 301 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: a pair of nuticals for a German shepherd should get uticals. 302 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: Do you know what those are? I'm a no. I 303 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: could guess maybe, but they're prosthetic testicles. Anyway, long story short, 304 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: he has muticals. This is not elective surgery, but it's 305 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: in the realm of psychological costs. We found a lot 306 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 1: of owners I spoke with put their pets on doggy 307 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: prozac because they had behavioral issues, anxiety, a lot of anxiety, 308 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: and neighbors filed complaints. You know, some pretty difficult experiences 309 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: that pet owners say is not talked about a lot, 310 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: and so they had to put their dogs on prozac 311 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: or put them into daycare training, and so those costs 312 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: can rise to almost as much as you know, a 313 00:18:54,880 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: heart condition. We'll be right back gren. We've been talking 314 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: about how pet ownership in the amount of money people 315 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: spend on their pets, are going up. But there's also 316 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 1: the opposite happening, which is a lot more people, especially 317 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: who got a pet during the pandemic, are trying to 318 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: return them or finding new homes because they just can't 319 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: keep up. Yeah, you are starting to see that. And 320 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: what you see in the data such as it is 321 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: because again you know, the data here is not quite 322 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: as clean as with human activities. But if you look 323 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: at numbers compiled by a group called Shelter animals count. 324 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: You're certainly seeing an uptick in most states in what 325 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: are called pet surrenders compared with the early days of 326 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: the pandemic. There's an important caveat there, though, which is 327 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: that by and large those numbers are lower than they 328 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: we're in twenty nineteen, and so it's not quite right yet, 329 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: at least to say that there's a bunch of people 330 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: who ran out and got pets during the pandemic and 331 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: now they just can't deal with them. Certainly, that description 332 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: fits the case of some people, from many others, you know, 333 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: I think that they're, you know, at least compared with 334 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: pre pandemic levels, seem able to keep their pets at 335 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: home and seem happy. And I think actually that's it's 336 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: a really clear sign that pet owners are willing to 337 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: go very far to keep their pets, even if for 338 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: whatever reason it was, they might want to rehome their pets. 339 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: You might have the numbers taking up from the start 340 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: of the pandemic, but we're still not at twenty nineteen levels. 341 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: You know, that trend toward humanization and doing whatever you 342 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: can to make sure your pet is healthy and happy 343 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: and stays with you, that I think will continue, and 344 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: that's perhaps where this market will continue to head towards 345 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: the half trillion target. That's right, and the short term 346 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: there is a bit of a question mark just from 347 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 1: the economy. There's obviously a lot of economic uncertainty out there, 348 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: and it is the case that when the economy worsens, 349 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: there are more people who look to rehome their pets. 350 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: Whether the economy will worsen to that extent, whether people 351 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: will react with the same historical pattern, all that remains 352 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: to be seen. But it's a big question mark. As 353 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: we go through the rest of this year, we hear 354 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 1: from the drug company saying that costs spent on healthcare 355 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: are sticky right their very recession resilient, and so people 356 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: would decide to lower their costs in some other area 357 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: a cheaper car or fewer clothes sooner than actually taking 358 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: away bending on a pet. As you're reporting on this 359 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: booming industry that, as you describe, is only going to 360 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: get bigger and bigger, what are you looking for? What 361 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: are the trends down the road that you're keeping your 362 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: eye on. I'm interested in how human health is trickling 363 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: down into pet health, especially because it takes a lot 364 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: shorter to go through the approval process FDA approval process 365 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: to get a new drug for a pet, and so 366 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: eventually we might see innovation first hitting the pet market 367 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: before the human market. Yeah, there's a lot of research 368 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: out there on dog aging for a number of reasons, 369 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: one of which is that dogs have shorter lifespans, and 370 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: so a human researcher can track multiple generations of dogs 371 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: over the course of a career. There's something called the 372 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: Dog Aging Project, which is based out of the University 373 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: of Washington and Texas A and M University. It's got 374 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 1: forty four thousand dogs enrolled, where the dog owners fill 375 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: out questionnaires keep track of their pets health and behavior. 376 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: The hope is that over time they start to generate 377 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: insights into how dog's age, which genes age the best. 378 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: It's even conceivable that there could be some insights from 379 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: that project coming into human health, and you know, there's 380 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: startups out there with plans to do something similar. You 381 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: could see a number of so called anti aging drugs 382 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: on the market within three four years potentially, So that's 383 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: definitely one thing to watch. Another thing that I'd keep 384 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: my eye on is whether the assumption that people will 385 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: keep accepting higher prices. In fact, turns out to be right. 386 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: There's a lot of money behind these industries, right Like 387 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: Mars Incorporated, the candy bar Company is one of the 388 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: big investors in veterinary services. And the bet there is 389 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: that humanization trend rising incomes greater supply of pricier options 390 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: for pet care. You know, the bet is that those 391 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: will all combine and give this very robust annual average 392 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: growth over the next five, seven, ten years. But there's 393 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: a lot that could go wrong too, you know. It 394 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: could be that people just can't hack it, particularly in 395 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 1: the middle or lower income levels. Could be that demand 396 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: isn't quite where they're expecting it to be. But right now, 397 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: the people putting money at risk here are definitely expecting 398 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 1: these numbers to keep rising pretty quickly in terms of spending. 399 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: Brendan and Naka I think it's important for our listeners 400 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: to know your bias dog or cat. Cat. My wife 401 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: and my kids know that more of a cat person, 402 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: but we do have two cats and two dogs. Our 403 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: house is a bit of a zoo and we love 404 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: them all. And Naka I grew up with a dog 405 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: and it would have to be dog again. Na time, 406 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: Brendan Case, thanks so much for coming on the show. 407 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having us, Thanks for having us. 408 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: Thanks to Rebecca chass On, Catherine Think, Sam Gobauer, and 409 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: Vicky Bergolina for sharing their cat and dog stories. And 410 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening to us. Here The Big Take. 411 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: It's a daily podcast asked from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For 412 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: more shows from I Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 413 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen, and we'd love to 414 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: hear from you. Email us questions or comments to Big 415 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: Take at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of The 416 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 1: Big Take is Vicky Bergolina. Our senior producer is Katherine Fink. 417 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: Our producer is Rebecca Chasson. Our associate producer is Sam Gabauer. 418 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: Hilde Garcia is our engineer. Our original music was composed 419 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: by Leo Sidrin. I'm West Kasova. We'll be back on 420 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: Monday with another Big Take. Have a great weekend.