1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: My reason to thank to this country is moving backwards. 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: Freedom is being reduced. A little while ago, I spoke 4 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: with President Biden, who pledged all support. The White House 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: can provide the bipartisan gun bill address as many of 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: the aspects of these mass shures. Floomberg Sound On Politics, 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: Policy and Perspective from DC's top name. This is truly 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: an historic moments for we're discussing this and working to 9 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: align these haphazard tariffs in our priorities. Sloomberg Sound On 10 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. President Biden prepares to 11 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: cut Trump tariffs on China, but who will it help? 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to the fastest hour in politics, as we opened 13 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: a short and trading week with some big decisions looming 14 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: at the White House that we'll discuss them in a 15 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: moment with Cleet Williams, one of President Trump's economic advisors 16 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: when the tariffs were first put in place. Is Russia 17 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: winning the war in Ukraine? Will Ask retired at Air 18 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: Force General David Deptula with new American weapons on the 19 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: way to the Daun Boss and analysis today from our 20 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: signature panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeannie Chanzano and Rick Davis 21 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: back with us for the hour. President Biden said weeks 22 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,839 Speaker 1: ago he was thinking about cutting tariffs that Donald Trump 23 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: put in place on China several years back, and he 24 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: could be preparing to do so in the next couple 25 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: of days. According to Bloomberg News, White House Press Secretary 26 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: Karine Jean Pierre talked about it on the way back 27 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: from Europe last week on Air Force One. Here she is, 28 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: we're discussing this and working to align these haphazard tariffs 29 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: and our priorities to safeguard the interest of our workers. 30 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: Could get a decision again in the coming days, they say, 31 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: knowing now. The Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen spoke over the 32 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: weekend with a vice premiere of China. It's getting to 33 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: be a high level conversation, but unclear what round of 34 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: tariffs might be cut, what impact is well it would 35 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: have on prices here in the US, if any. So 36 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: we wanted to talk with somebody who is in the 37 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: room when these terrorists were conceived and implemented. Cleet Williams 38 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: was Deputy Director of the National Economic Council in the 39 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: Trump White House and served as Deputy Assistant to the 40 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: President for International Economics. He is now with the firm 41 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: partner at Akin, gump Strauss, Howard and Feld and a 42 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 1: nonresident Senior Fellow with the Atlantic Council's Geoeconomics Center. It's 43 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: a long business card, cleet, Welcome, It's great to have you. Uh. 44 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: You must be chuckling a little bit today as everyone 45 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: becomes an expert suddenly on tariffs, which are incredibly complex. 46 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: But the fact is China has not really changed the 47 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: behavior that led to them in the first place, and 48 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: people a lot smarter than I am say it wouldn't 49 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: have much of an impact. So I ask you, is 50 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: it worth it? Is it worth bringing them down to 51 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: try to get to inflation? Sure? And I think this 52 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: is a little bit more of a complicated topic than 53 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: it's being made out in the press. And in many 54 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: respects this is being painted is simply a question or 55 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: do we want to get rid of tariffs to fight 56 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: inflation versus do we want to maintain the status quo 57 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: because China hasn't changed its behavior in the way that 58 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: we ask and and look, my my personal view is 59 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: that that's really the wrong question. I think what the 60 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: administration should do is take a step back, look at 61 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: these tariffs holistically, figure out which ones are putting pressure 62 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: on China, which ones are hurting China versus which ones 63 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: are hurting our economy, and look at increasing tariffs on 64 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: the ones that are that are harmful to China and 65 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: get rid of the tariffs and the ones that are 66 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: harmful to us. And that could be a more holistic 67 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: restructuring of this whole list. But I think, what, yeah, 68 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: But what I think what the administration is looking at 69 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: in the short term is much more modest than that, 70 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: um and maybe they'll get to where I'm suggesting over time. 71 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: But I think, you know, investors in the next couple 72 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: of days really should only be looking at some sort 73 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: of minor tariff relief for inflation, and then maybe a 74 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: longer term process to do a little bit of what 75 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: I'm describing. So this is interesting that Dow Jones is 76 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: reporting that, you know, the Biden deministration might choose to 77 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: cut tariffs on some seasonal consumer items. I mean, they 78 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: actually seemed pretty trivial sunscreen bicycles, uh, waiting pools, and 79 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: I think I saw the Bloomberg story uh while hiking 80 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: not just maintaining but hiking tariffs on things like heavy 81 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: machinery and transportation equipment. Are we getting warmer their cleap Well, look, 82 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: I think that's more in the line that the administration 83 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: should go. I will be a little bit surprised though, 84 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: if they fully articulate that strategy in the next couple 85 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 1: of days. As as I understand it, I think you're 86 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: going to get that short term tariff relief and then 87 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: probably the start of a process to look at some 88 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: of those tariffs increases, because they don't necessarily have the 89 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: right legal tools right now to just simply increase tariffs 90 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: without going through a whole process. Yeah, I would look 91 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: at this as a short term and a long term action, 92 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: and hopef we will the long term they get in 93 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: the direction you're discussing understood, Then comes the impact you 94 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,559 Speaker 1: Barclays calls it a drop in the bucket, three tenths 95 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: of a percentage point, maybe an inflation. The Peterson Institute 96 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: quarter percentage point, maybe more, though they say a FUS 97 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: companies that you know then cut their prices in response, 98 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: which is a big gift of those numbers sound real 99 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: to you, No, I think that's right, And what some 100 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: of the reports have suggested is that the order of 101 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,799 Speaker 1: magnitude of these short term cuts is around ten billion dollars. 102 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: And if that's true, you're talking about ten billion out 103 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 1: of three d and sixty odd billion and tearraffs. So 104 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: it's a pretty small percentage. And I do think in 105 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: terms of effecting overall CPI, inflation, in disease, it's unlikely 106 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: to be significant. But I think what the Biden administration 107 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: is gambling on is that on some very specific products, UH, 108 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: people are gonna go to stores and see an immediate 109 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: price reduction. And that's a big one. If I know, 110 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: they're trying to get retailers to make those commitments, but 111 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: I'm not sure whether they've been successful. And I guess 112 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: we'll see. You ask Katherine Tye and you get a 113 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: different answer on all of this. The US Trade representative, 114 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: you know, suggesting there is an argument inside the White House. 115 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: Our reporting says Katherine Tye wants the tariffs to stay 116 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: right where they are. She says, you take away the 117 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: tariffs and you lose the leverage. It's kind of the 118 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: only leverage we have over paiging. Have these helped in 119 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: retrospect as a diplomatic tool. So look, I think they 120 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: were helpful as an initial matter. They did help yield 121 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: the Phase one deal, which I will continue to defend 122 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: as at least making some incremental progress in opening up 123 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: China's market, But I think at this point in time 124 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: they aren't having much effect. Now I don't I want 125 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: to be sympathetic to what Embassador Tie is saying. I 126 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: get the idea that we don't want to just let 127 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 1: China off the hook, and that's why I think you 128 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: do need to look at other products in which we 129 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: should actually increase tariffs. But at the same time, I 130 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 1: would point out, you know, she she talks about leverage, 131 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,239 Speaker 1: but there isn't any real I'm going negotiation with China, 132 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: So so leverage for what what is it she's she's 133 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: seeking leverage for? And so again I think if she 134 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: wants to have active negotiations with China, that's a valid question. 135 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: But if not, again my vote remains, let's look at 136 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: these holistically, figure out which ones are hurting us, and 137 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: let's change those and then maybe be more strategic about 138 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: where we put the pressure on China. You mentioned Phase one, 139 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: the deal, the trade deal you signed with China, in 140 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: as part of the Trump administration has never been fully 141 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: realized because China never reached the purchasing goals that it 142 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: agreed to. Should Joe Biden be taking a harder line 143 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: on that side of our trade agreement? So I think 144 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: it's important that the Biden administration do pressure China to 145 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: fully implement the agreement. But I would actually point out 146 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: that China's record is a little bit more mixed than 147 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: they get credit for because the purchases were only part 148 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: of this. There were systemic changes, structural changes they agreed 149 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: to make on intellectual property and on agriculture that they 150 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: actually did did follow through on. So it's a it's 151 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: a mixed bag rather than a total a total waste. 152 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: But not what if they've done an intellectual property question? 153 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: What's that? What if they accomplished on intellectual property? That 154 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: that gets your that gets your thumbs up. Well, they've 155 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: passed the trade secrets law, they have made some moves 156 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: to enforce, to create an enforcement rite in courts for 157 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: various types of patent protection, and so you know, there's 158 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: some some moves that they've made. How they achieve everything 159 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: we set out to do? Are they still requiring force 160 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: technology transfer. Yeah, that's that's that's a problem. So it's 161 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: not it's not a complete victory, but I think it's 162 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: unfair to say that it achieved nothing. And I think 163 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: the terro ups that we put in place in initially 164 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: did contribute to some of those outcomes. Click Williams. He 165 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: was there, and we thank you for your insights on 166 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: an interesting day here in the world of politics, talking 167 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: about China tariffs again and whether or not we're about 168 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: to get news. We do want to air this out 169 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: and we assemble our panel, if only to hear the 170 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: voices of Rick Davis and Jeannie Chanzano after a long weekend. Uh. 171 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: Great to have both of you guys back, now that 172 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: your ears have stopped ringing from fireworks all night. Rick, 173 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: I wonder if you see some action here, something that 174 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: would be worthwhile, or if we're gonna keep nibbling around 175 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: the edges and and and calling this, you know, another 176 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: another swing at the inflation bowl. Well, you know, it's 177 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 1: the reporting that I've got, and and that is the 178 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: nibbling around the edge of strategy, which is incredible because 179 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: you would think that this administration would get out of 180 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: this defensive crouch related to anything Trump, and and and 181 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: and make some changes. I mean it's almost like he's 182 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: got Trump in his head renting space, you know, don't 183 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: change any of my policies on immigration or on trade 184 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: with China. I mean, it's it's really phenomenal. Even some 185 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: some ghosts of Russia putin are in there. So I 186 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: think this administration needs to make a break. And I 187 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: think again, follow a little bit of Larry Summer's advice, 188 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: you know, drop these tariffs, reduce inflation, and get on 189 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: with the economic business of our country. This be across 190 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: the board, Genie, or as we were talking with Cleatney, 191 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: in a little bit more of a of a scalpel approach, 192 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: and try to figure out what actually might be putting 193 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: the squeeze on China and keeping it there. I think 194 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: Clee is exactly right. I think it is going to 195 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: be narrow. And here's why. Because you've got competing camps 196 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: in the White House. You talked about some of those 197 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: in the administration yelling versus tie. You've also got competing 198 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: interest groups that have the president's ear business groups, the 199 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: US Chamber, labor progressives. So he's hearing from a lot 200 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: of these knowing Joe Biden the way he do we do. 201 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: He's not going to go big like Rick is talking about. 202 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: He is going to take a narrow scout, you know, 203 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: sort of strategic approach. He's going to try to cut tariffs. 204 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: I bet in areas that he thinks can impact consumers. 205 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: I've heard people talk about things like school supplies, clothing, food, 206 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: things like that that hopefully impact. But the question, of 207 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: course that you raised, is is it really going to 208 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: be effective? Is it going to hit cost and help people? 209 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 1: And that's the big question. I think he's going to 210 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: take a chance that might but he won't go big. 211 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: You know they could do is pass this trying to 212 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: competes legislation. Rick, that's got the chip AC. Now Mitch 213 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: McConnell is threatening to withdraw Republican support, or at least 214 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: his own support, if Democrats pursue a reconciliation package this year. 215 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:14,599 Speaker 1: I don't want to walk too far away from this 216 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: tariff story, but that is one of the most tangible 217 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: ways we could actually do something with China. And here 218 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: it is on the rocks again. Are you hearing this 219 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,719 Speaker 1: is going to pass anyway that there's enough support, Well, 220 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: there's enough support for it. It's just a question of 221 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: you know, whether or not you're using the Chip Act 222 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: as a leverage item in Congress. But but this is 223 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: really the point, Joe, is that are these these these 224 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: tariffs aren't actually getting us anything from China. They're not 225 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: even implementing almost the one. So where are we getting 226 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: from these and what leverage are is Tai talking about? 227 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: The leverage we have is on chips and we need 228 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: to pass that bill. Caught him all, Genie, or or 229 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: take the narrow path you just mentioned. I think he 230 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: should go big, but my guess is he goes strategically, 231 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: will go narrow because he's facing a lot of competing pressures. 232 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: We stick with the panel, Rick Davis and Jeannie Chanzano next, 233 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: as we look back on the president's remarks on America's birthday. 234 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 1: This is sound Off and this is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg. 235 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: So on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. We come 236 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: fourth on the fifth, even though we were kept up 237 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: all night by amateur fireworks. But hey, it's only once 238 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: a year. I do hope you had a great Fourth 239 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: of July. President Biden seemed to have a good time, 240 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: a good holiday at the White House, the military, families 241 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: on the lawn, special guests, the cookouts going yes, you 242 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: read on the terminal. Biden urges unity despite economic worries 243 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: and deep divisions, celebrated at the cookout, noting the nation 244 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: has made great strides, but also well, listen to the 245 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: president the reason days there's been reason to think that 246 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: this country's we're backward, that freedom is being reduced. We 247 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: assume we're protected, are no longer America has taken a 248 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: few steps backward. At the fourth of July picnic, we 249 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: reassembled the panel with Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Chantano and 250 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: Rick Davis. Is that the time to strike that that 251 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: note here? And I know I've asked this before, but 252 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: I mean, isn't that kind of his version of the 253 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: Malay speech? Here? Jeannie, That's exactly what I thought when 254 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: I listened to it. That and the fact that July 255 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: four has not been kind to Joe Biden in the 256 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: last couple of years. So last year he was declaring 257 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: independence from COVID, that of course blew up several months 258 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: later in all of our faces. And this year, you know, 259 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: comments like you know, he was shocked by the what 260 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: happened in the horrific shooting in Chicago. But you know 261 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: the fact is you listen to people on the ground 262 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: and they're saying, you know, the president doesn't seem and 263 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: most only invested in any of these issues, and he 264 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to have the sort of you know answer, 265 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: He doesn't seem to have the sort of drive that people, 266 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: particularly on the left, want him to. And quite frankly, 267 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: the emotion of somebody like the governor from Illinois who 268 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: spoke out after the shooting. So there's a lot to 269 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: be to be you know, sort of um, you know, 270 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: reconsidered about the way in which this communications team is 271 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: getting him out there. It's really problematic, Rick, you spent 272 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: a career of helping to prepare elected officials for speeches 273 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: and and being in the moment reading the room, realizing 274 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: he was talking about, you know, referring to the Supreme 275 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: Court decisions last week. Uh, in recent days there was 276 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: reason to think this country is moving backward? Is that's 277 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: something that should that should ever come from a president? 278 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: Never mind on the fourth of July. Well, I think 279 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: he's echoing every man. This is every man Joe Biden 280 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: and I guess he forgot he's president United States and 281 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: responsible for that movement. Um. You know, posters I've talked 282 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: to you say we're in rare fight air. As of 283 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: July four, holiday, over any percent of the American voting 284 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: public are saying that the country's on the wrong track, 285 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: and Joe Biden seems to agree with him. You know, 286 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: I think that he should be the guy showing us 287 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: the way forward, not um, you know, reacting to how 288 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: everyone thinks we're going backward. Well, so how about now 289 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: we start a fight about the economy with one of 290 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: the most successful entrepreneurs in American history, That, of course 291 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: would be Jeff Bezos. You guys saw the tweets back 292 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: and forth, uh that you know. The President was going 293 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: after uh, the the oil and gas companies, saying, hey, 294 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: how come prices haven't come down gas prices with the 295 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: price of crude And he got an answer from Jeff Bezos, 296 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: who called him out for not knowing very much about 297 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: the economy. Karine john Pierre, the Press secretary at the 298 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: White House, was asked about this today coming off the weekend. 299 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: Here's her answer. As you know, we we completely disagree 300 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: with Jeff Bezos. Look we will continue to call on 301 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: everyone along that distribution chain, as I just mentioned, from 302 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: oil companies to refineries, to distribt distributors to to retailers 303 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: to pass their low lower cost through two consumers. That 304 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: is what is important to make sure that we should 305 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: not make again consumers pay first and get that room 306 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: and get that relief. Last this after Jeff Bezos responded 307 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: to a presidential tweet, again saying in part, it's either 308 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: straight ahead misdirection or a deep misunderstanding of basic market dynamics. 309 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: Is that a conversation you want to get into, Genie, 310 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely not. And you know, you look at this tweet 311 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: and the tweet ends with forwards. Anybody who has kids. No, 312 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: you never say and do it now unless you can 313 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: force the person to do it, and he can't. He's 314 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: going after gas stations here. You know, it would be 315 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: one thing if what Jeff Bezos was saying was, you know, 316 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: sort of holly crazy. But this was a tweet that 317 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: got attacked some sort of all sort of cycles. And 318 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, the thing is is that they have to 319 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: be better about their message, and this tweet displays that 320 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: they are not. And that's the problem with it. Apart 321 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: from anything Jeff Bezos had to say about it. So 322 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: he's he's gone after gone at it with Elon Musk. 323 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 1: Now Jeff Bezos, uh speaking of rarefied air. I mean 324 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,959 Speaker 1: he's keeping good company. I guess here, Rick, But how 325 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: does this play politically? I can't wait for the Bill 326 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: Gates tweet. I mean, like, is he just picking on 327 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: the wealthiest people in the world? I mean, is that 328 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: the new strategy? Honestly, I don't get it. Um what what? 329 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: What in the world does does Jeff Bezos have to 330 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: do with gasoline prices? And in other words, like I 331 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: get where he sits in the supply chain and how 332 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: important he is as a you know, distributor of goods 333 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: all around the world. But do you think there are 334 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: any voters who are thinking about the November election going, Hey, 335 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: that guy Bezos is the problem with gas prices? I mean, like, 336 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: this is this is something that these guys in the 337 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: White House have to get real on shore not have 338 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: replied to that reply. I think, why pick a fight 339 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: with a guy who has a newspaper, he owns the 340 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: Washington Bios, he buys ink by the barrel. You don't 341 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 1: pick fights with people like that. Is he's onto something there. 342 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 1: I'm assuming they are prime members though, yeah, you bet 343 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,479 Speaker 1: they are. They have to do something over the weekend 344 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: like the rest of us. Um. You know. But but 345 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: but again, you know, I think this is broader than 346 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: the President. I think it has to do with this 347 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: communications team at the White House. They've had a really, 348 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 1: really tough time and we're hearing it on abortion, We're 349 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: hearing it on guns from the left, and they are 350 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: frustrated that the President can't get out and say this 351 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: is what I'm going to do to address these crazies 352 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: in the country. Rick and Jennie stay with us for 353 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: the hour. Up next is Russia winning the war in Ukraine. 354 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: We'll talk about it with retired Air Force General David 355 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: Deptula on the fastest hour in politics. It's great to 356 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: have you back with us. We'll check traffic and markets 357 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: for you on the way. I'm Joe Matthew. This is 358 00:18:53,440 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg broadcasting live from our nation's capital. Bloomberg to New York, 359 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: Bloomberg eleven trio to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one 360 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to the Country. Serious 361 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: x M General one ninety and around the globe of 362 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business app then Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is 363 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg sond On with Joe Matthew. Russia tightens its grip 364 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: on the Don Boss, leading some military analysts to suggest 365 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: the tide has turned for Russia and ask whether the 366 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: US is being realistic about its goals. We'll have the 367 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: latest on the war and discuss it all with retired 368 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: Air Force General David Depp. To look, Turkey is still 369 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: causing some trouble inside the family when it comes to 370 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: NATO admitting Finland in Sweden. This seemed over for a 371 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: minute when President Biden met with Urdwan. Now not so much, 372 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: as Turkey renews its threat to block the expansion if 373 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: these two countries do not extradite people that considers terror. 374 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: Turkey today though still joined allies and signing off on 375 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: plans to get the ball rolling on bringing the two 376 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: into the Alliance, just simply maintaining the threat. Here's NATO 377 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: Secretary General again Stoltenberg. Today we will formally sign the 378 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: protocols of accession. This marks the start of the gratification courses. 379 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: So from here, the parliaments of each of the thirty 380 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: NATO nations must then ratify the expansion. So this is 381 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 1: going to take a minute. This is could be a 382 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: few months even before Sweden and Finland are in the fold, 383 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: as long as Turkey doesn't have a problem. So what 384 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,959 Speaker 1: shape will Ukraine be in by then? I ask you 385 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: that as the front page of the fourth of July 386 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: Washington Post with the headline more military advisers suggesting the 387 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: U S maybe too optimistic about the outcome of this war. 388 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: And we're joined now by a reliable voice, retired Air 389 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: Force General David Deptula, dean of the Mitchell Institute for 390 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: Aerospace Studies. General, it's great to have you back. I'll 391 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: start simply by asking you, is Russia winning this war? Well, 392 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: thanks for having me on, Joe. UM, I'd say no, 393 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: Russia is not winning winning the war yet. UM. It 394 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: is still very much contested UH conflict, with the Ukrainians 395 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: doing their best to hold on. But as you suggested, 396 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, the Russians have an enormous stockpile of 397 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: weapons and ammunition UH, and Ukraine has made it clear 398 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: that Western nations need to come to their assistance if 399 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: they're going to be able to hold out against the Russians. 400 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: I still think that, Um, the issue is yet to 401 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: be decided and it will take some time. UM, but 402 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: you know, we we've got to stop procrastinating. When I 403 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: say we, I mean the collective Western nations that are 404 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: in support of the principles of Ukraine and send them 405 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: weapons that matter. UM. So we've been sending a lot 406 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: more recently, as as I'm sure you've seen in reporting 407 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: the high mobility artillery rocket systems. I think I think 408 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: you call them the him our systems. We just gave them, 409 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 1: or at least approved, whether they're on the ground yet 410 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: and being used, uh more advanced longer range ground to 411 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: air missile defense systems. What are we not giving them then? 412 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: In general? Well, well the point in thanks for bringing 413 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: that up, um, High Mars uh is a excellent medium 414 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: range rocket system, but we've only given them eight in 415 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: that new air defense system you mentioned, we've only given 416 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: them too now in we just supply them, you know, 417 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 1: with about a week's worth of artillery ammunition. So is 418 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: it more high Mars or stuff they don't have yet, No, 419 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: it's stuff they don't have yet. What Ukraine has stated 420 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: and the President has made is very clear as they 421 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: need air power. They've stated the need for F sixteens 422 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: and F fifteens to replace their Soviet Air Air Force 423 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: as their legacy air force is becoming non viable. Um 424 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: and I can speak to that, but I want to 425 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: pack up too much time. But the obstacles to supplying 426 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: the capabilities that they actually need that can make a 427 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: difference to the Russian um A really centered in the 428 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: National Security Council and the current administration policy of appeasing 429 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: Russia to the extent permitted by current politics. So how 430 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: do you get him F sixteens if we couldn't get 431 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: a dozen bigs in there at the beginning of this war, Well, 432 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: that's part of the issue. Unfortunately, since Russia invaded Ukraine, 433 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: Putin's rhetoric has done more to deter action by the 434 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: United States and NATO to assist Ukraine than the US 435 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 1: and NATO has onto the turb Putin and you just 436 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: mentioned one of the prime examples. Those May twenty nine 437 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: should have been gotten to Ukraine early on. Uh and 438 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: then there's been the reluctance to send advanced unman aial 439 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: vehicles or drones the MP on m Q nine the Ukraine. 440 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: So then cheddyal, you understand why people are asking is 441 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: it too late here? As as Russia advances to to 442 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: finish its job, things are looking pretty red all the 443 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: way down to the eastern borderline. Well, that's true. However, 444 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: the Ukrainians have done a magnificent job in halting and 445 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: then reversing their initial assault. Um. The Russians have been 446 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: dug in in the eastern portion of Ukraine and been 447 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: fighting for eight years, so it's not surprising that they've 448 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: restrengthened their initiative there. But I think you'll see the 449 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: Ukrainians do a good job in halting them in that location. 450 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: It's not too late, but we need to send the 451 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: Ukrainians weapons that matter, not just something minimal to get 452 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: by to say that we've done something. If we don't 453 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: give them fighter jets, can they win the war? No, 454 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: because you don't have air superiority, you're gonna lose. Your 455 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: superiority is contested. Um, But they're their Their current air 456 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: forces have been reduced due to attrition losses UH in 457 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: constant use. So unless Ukraine acquires replacement fighter force of 458 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: Western origin, they're gonna lose the ability to defend their 459 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: airspace and support its ground forces. And we both seem 460 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: to understand each other that that's not likely to happen, right, Well, 461 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: I don't know if the If the administration doesn't do it, um, 462 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: then it may take Congress um to legislate the necessity 463 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 1: to provide this equipment necessary to Ukraine's survival in the 464 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: face of Russians aggression. How based on your experience in Washington, General, 465 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: in our in our remaining minute here, when do you 466 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: start hearing the uproar about war fatigue and concern about 467 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: rebuilding our own war chest after we've given them, frankly, 468 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: quite a lot of stuff. So you know, I gotta 469 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: tell you, Joe, I think you're already hearing it, um, 470 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: And it is not rebuilding the war chest, is that 471 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: we have neglected our war chest for thirty years. We're 472 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: half the size that we were when we won Desert Store. 473 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: We have to buy a lot of stuff. Yeah, if 474 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: we're half the size then and we've neglected our own 475 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: military for years and years, we don't have the numbers 476 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: of weapons required, or the systems or the type to 477 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: fight the Chinese and men in the South China seats. 478 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: And that's a whole other conversation that I'd love to 479 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: have you back for General David Deptula with some strong 480 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: opinions about this. We want to play it to the 481 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: panel next. Rick and Genie will be with us on 482 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. This is 483 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: Bloomberg So On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. General 484 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: David dep Tila just told us Ukraine cannot win the 485 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: war against Russia without new fighter jets. It sounds like 486 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 1: not just a few of them, based on everything we've 487 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: heard from the administration, this White House not getting any 488 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: new fighter jets. Let's reassemble the panel for more on this. 489 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Genie Chancey know, Rick, 490 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: I think you supported given them the MiGs, you know, 491 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: six months ago or five months ago, whatever it was 492 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: at this point. But there there does seem to be 493 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: a growing concern that the tide is turning in Russia's favor, 494 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: that this will not be over anytime soon, and it 495 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: may actually not end in Ukraine's favor. Do you see 496 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: this as stark as the general and that if they 497 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: don't get a new air force basically they can't win. Look, 498 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: I think obviously we're in a very critical time where 499 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: Russia is starting to make gains after repeated failures on 500 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: the field of play. But at the end of the day, 501 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: I think the point you make is we're probably in 502 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: it for a long haul. That Russia isn't going to 503 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: sue for peace. Ukraine wants its territory back and wants 504 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 1: the AMMO and and equipment to do that, and and 505 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: it's really up to the policy makers in Washington and 506 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: Europe to determine whether they're going to give them that. 507 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: And we can cry over spilt milk. We should have 508 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 1: armed Ukraine long before Putin went across the border, but 509 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: you know we were, oh, we don't want to provoke Putin. Well, 510 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: the lesson we should learn is we should do what's 511 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: in our interests and that in the world's interest for 512 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: peace and stability, and not worry about Vladimir Putin. And 513 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: by the way, the next lesson to learn is in Taiwan, 514 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: are we upgunning Taiwan now? Because the same lesson, oh, 515 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: we don't want to provoke g Well, what is the 516 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: lesson we just learned? In the Ukraine needs president but 517 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: I need to rethink. The Jets had a pretty hard 518 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: line on this idea when it first came up, but 519 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: it's been five months. If he's listening to the general, 520 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: he does need to rethink this. And you know, I 521 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: heard the General say, you know, to your point there, 522 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: they can't win the war without the jets and without 523 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: the air power, and if the administration doesn't do it, 524 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: we're gonna wait for Congress. Well you know you might 525 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: as well just yeah, I mean, that's you know, that's 526 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: not going to happen. So the Biden administration is going 527 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: to have to rethink this. But I think the problem 528 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: here is is that they are sort of trapped. They 529 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: don't want to commit to this war and the way 530 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: they need to so Ukraine can win by the end 531 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: of the year or you know, in the near future. 532 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: The United States the West doesn't want to commit that much, 533 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: and so we don't want to commit. We're doing this, 534 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: you know, in a sort of with a hands off 535 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: approach with these big investments, and in this way, we 536 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: are really playing into Putin's hands. Because you play the 537 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: long game on these things. There is going to be 538 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: a point at which Americans are going to say enough 539 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: is enough, and we will have to, you know, stop 540 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: the investment. So the Biden administration has to think long 541 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: and hard how does this thing end? And if Russia 542 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: is going to be beat, an investment is going to 543 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: have to happen, and it's going to have to be big. 544 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: All the while, Brittany Griner is sending letters to the president. Rick, 545 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: you've probably heard about this by now. The w NBA 546 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: player who has been in jail, has been jailed in 547 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: Russia now for months, told Joe Biden in the letter 548 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: that she is terrified I might be here forever. Was 549 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: the quote, according to the Associated Press. Uh. This was 550 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: delivered to the White House by a representative. The Press 551 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: Secretary today said the President read it in her presence. 552 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: Jake Sullivan, the National Security Advisor, talked about this recently. 553 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: Here's what he said about the engagement the administration has. 554 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: We are actively working to find a resolution to this 555 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: case and will continue to do so without rest until 556 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: we get Britney safely home. Rick, how do you solve 557 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: this right now? And what leverage, if any, does the 558 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: United States have as Russia conducts this proxy war for Ukraine. Yeah, 559 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: it's tough, right because we can't really add sanctions to sanctions, 560 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: because if we could add more sanctions, we would anyway. 561 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: Um uh, you know there the solutions that seem to 562 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: make sense in this kind of a problem are prisoner swaps. Right, 563 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: You're not negotiating for a release of Brittany Grinder, You're 564 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: you're just making a trade. And and there are trades 565 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,719 Speaker 1: going on every single day on the on the on 566 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: the front between Ukraine and Russian soldiers and prisoners of war. 567 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: And so you would hope that that that that something 568 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: like that could be expedited in this process as quickly 569 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: as possible. Every day matters to somebody like Brittany, and 570 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: and frankly, this administration's ability to look strong in in 571 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: the of this it's been getting noisy lately, especially now 572 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: today with the letter today in the yesterday Jeannie, but 573 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about a two time Olympic gold medalist, Uh, 574 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: could be in Russia in jail for a decade, accused 575 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: of of carrying cannabis oil vape cartridges into the country. 576 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: Are you surprised this hasn't gotten more coverage? How how 577 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: come this hasn't been discussed more openly by the White House? 578 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: You know, I think early on the family, we understand 579 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: was told, you know, not to make it an issue 580 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: in the press, that they should try to go through 581 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: back channels with the administration. They clearly have grown tired 582 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: of that and they have gone public. But let's think 583 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: about this. There's a nine conviction rate in Russia. She 584 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: will be convicted. She will be convicted, and she will 585 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: be sentenced to ten years and her probably best bet, 586 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: to Rick's point, is some kind of prisoner swap. Now, 587 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: the administration was able to do this successfully in April, 588 00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: in the midst of the war with Trevor Reid, so 589 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: they may be able to do it. But she's got 590 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: a long road if you look at that trajectory, because 591 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: she's going to have to be convicted and then they're 592 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: going to have to do some kind of prisoner swap 593 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: if they are willing to do it. So, you know, 594 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: it is a devastating, devastating issue. She's a hostage, not 595 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: a prisoner. But it's not That's what I wanted to 596 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: ask if this, if we're talking about a prisoner swap, Rick, 597 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: is Britney Grinder a hostage? Well, I think you can 598 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: assume that the Russians are treating her as a prisoner. 599 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: But I think the way we look at it is 600 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: she's a hostage and and and and in semantics are 601 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: only important to get something done here, right. Uh it's 602 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: if if if she's a prisoner by Russian standards, and 603 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: we do a prisoner swap, then then for the purposes 604 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: of getting her out of there, you know that that's 605 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: the decision. But what if she actually stays stuff with her? 606 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: It almost is irrelevant at this stage, right, I mean, 607 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: like anybody who we have cooling their heels, you know, 608 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: from Russia in our prison system, or people who we 609 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: have um detained around the world. Uh, we're not gonna 610 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: We're not going to spend the time thinking guilt or 611 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: innocence if we want to be able to get her 612 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: out of the happen it was one of us, um, 613 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 1: I would hope. So if I'm asking genuinely if this 614 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: might go, We've got a two time gold medal medal winner, 615 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 1: and and it's taking months for this to get on 616 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: the front page. Genie, Yeah, you know, I think if 617 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: it was you were Rick, you'd be out. I think 618 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: I may be there like Britney Grener, but you know, yeah, 619 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: I do think we should discuss Yeah, I do think 620 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: we should. We should call her a hostage, you know. 621 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: And I think the frustration with many of these families, 622 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: whether they're in prison or hostages. The United States has 623 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,320 Speaker 1: a policy of not negotiating with terrorists and not negotiating 624 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: for hostage release, and yet we will do it with Russia. 625 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: And that is a point of real frustration. Goes well 626 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: beyond the Biden administration to u S policy more broadly 627 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: for many, many decades, which has long been questioned. Well, 628 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: the administration says she has been wrongfully detained. You'll know 629 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,720 Speaker 1: something's going on if they refer her as a hostage, certainly, 630 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 1: or a political prisoner. Uh. This is the New York 631 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: Times rights over the weekend that it's time to or 632 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: at least some orchestras are rethinking the use of the 633 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: eighteen twelve overture. Of course, a right, as they say, 634 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: of July fourth celebrations. Of course, this is Tchaikovsky's overture, 635 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,839 Speaker 1: written as a commemoration of Russia's defeat of Napoleon's army. 636 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: So how exactly it became associated with the fourth of 637 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 1: July has a lot of people wondering. You know what 638 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about, right, Let's let's do it right here 639 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: from the Esquimator. Yes, the great moment every year. The 640 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: Boston Pops made this what it is today, and the 641 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: great David Mugar, who suggested then to Arthur Feedler, the conductor, 642 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: that if you want to get people to turn out 643 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: for this thing, play the eighteen twelve and I'll bring it. 644 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: A bunch of howitzer cannons will play, church bells will 645 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 1: have the full smash, as Fiedler said, so all hell 646 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: could break loose. And indeed this has become copied all over, duplicated, 647 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 1: a nicer word all over the country. Every year on 648 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: the fourth of July. Wouldn't be America's birthday without it 649 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 1: until Vladimir Putin invades Ukraine and some orchestras actually decided 650 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: to drop it from the routine on this fourth of 651 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: July Boston, as you saw last night in Bloomberg's coverage, 652 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: was not one of them, but many ensembles, concerned about 653 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: the overtures history as a celebration of the Russian military, 654 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 1: reconsidered the work because of the war in Ukraine. Have 655 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: we lost it here? Rick? Yeah, wokeness at a new level. 656 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: I mean that we're blaming Tchaikovsky on put Putin on 657 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 1: Tchaikovsky or whatever. I mean, I'm losing track. You know, 658 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 1: when do we Bann Wagner because he was around the 659 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: time of the Nazis. I mean, enough of this. I 660 00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: have to admit it made me think of the Smirnov story. 661 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: A genie. Everybody started the boycott smearing off vodka after 662 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: the invasion, not realizing that it's actually not made in Russia. Yeah, 663 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: that's right. And Joe, I hope you weren't amongst them. 664 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: I hope you kept with your smearing off the bars 665 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: fully stocked. And you know, I have to say, I 666 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: am a trombone player. You don't know this about me, probably, 667 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: but I am an old, very bad trombone player, and 668 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: I have played the overture of eighteen twelve, So I 669 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: just cannot go along with any boycott. I love eighteen twelve. 670 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: It must be played. Fiedler was right, and I was 671 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: so glad that the Boston Pops did it. Yeah, well, 672 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: I guess I was too. And boy, it was just 673 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: incredible to watch it on Bloomberg. Everybody had gosh, I 674 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: there have been years I've been lucky enough to be there. 675 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: It looked great, everyone was back for the first time 676 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: since COVID. And then I read that the eighteen twelve 677 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,720 Speaker 1: is a problem, the latest, as the paper of Record 678 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: in New York says, the latest example of the difficult 679 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: questions facing cultural institutions since the war began. This one 680 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: maybe a tune to fall Are. It's great to be 681 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: back with everybody's Rick and Genie. Of course our signature 682 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: panel here on Bloomberg Sound on, and we'll do it 683 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: all over again tomorrow here on the fastest hour in politics. 684 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 1: If you showed up late, subscribe to the podcast. Be 685 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: part of this movement wherever you get your podcasts. Back 686 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: here tomorrow on sound On. I'm Joe Matthew in the 687 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 1: Nation's capital, and this is Bloomberg.