1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: today's best minds and New York State Attorney General Tis 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: James says Trump still owes four hundred and fifty four 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: million dollars in the civil judgment. We have such a 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: great show for you today, The Lincoln Projects Stuart Steven 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: stops by to talk about the shifting political landscape. Then 8 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: we'll talk to director Alex Gibney about his new film, 9 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,959 Speaker 1: The BB Files and the parallels between Trump and net Yahoo. 10 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: But first the news Samali. 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: Christopher Ray, FBI director not supposed to be done with 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 2: this term? 13 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 3: Is done with this term? What are we seeing here? 14 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: So he has three more years on his term. He 15 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: was you'll remember, put in place by Donald Trump during 16 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: Donald Trump's first term in office, when he put people 17 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: who were slightly less crazy into jobs. Here's the thing. 18 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: Trump wants to replace Christopher Ray with Cash Battel. He's 19 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: already said that cash Battel wants to find Trump's enemies 20 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: and prosecute them a la Herbert Hoover. This is a 21 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: real paradigm shift. We will see if cash Battel gets 22 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: through the vetting process. I don't know that it's a 23 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: huge surprise that Ray resigned because Trump would have the 24 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: power to fire him. In my mind, it's a bit 25 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: strange that he resigned in December when Trump still doesn't 26 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: take office for another month and a half. But obviously 27 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: there's something going on there. 28 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 3: It's a great vacation month, raight, It's a. 29 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: Great vacation month. Look, here's the thing about this. Cash 30 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: Battel is not necessarily going to head the FBI. He 31 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: may get through, but the Senators have an opportunity here 32 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: to prevent it. And if cash Battel does get through, 33 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: there really is a sense in which Cash will likely 34 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: investigate Trump's enemies, and that will mean that Trump will 35 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: have even more power. Right now, he's got Elon Musk 36 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: telling senators that if they decide that they don't want 37 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: to support one of Trump's nominees, they're going to get primary. Now, 38 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: this has not worked. The Senate is a longer range 39 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: situation where people are they have the seats for six years. 40 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: It's a bit different. It has worked in the House. 41 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: They did were able to have an act of revenge 42 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: tour in the House and primary. All of these senators 43 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: who voted to impeach Trump. But here's the thing. If 44 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: cash Battel does get in there, the people who are 45 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: going to end up getting investigated. As much as it'll 46 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: be people like us or people like George Conway, it'll 47 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: also be people like Republican senators who don't do what 48 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: Trump wants. Because Herbert Hoover, you know, he didn't have 49 00:02:55,720 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: a ton of loyalties. So look, maybe cash Battel makes 50 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: it in there. But what I think we should keep 51 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: remembering about all of this is this coalition of the 52 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: Maga has a lot of different wants and needs. It's 53 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: a very big tent that involves both Zionists and anti Semites, 54 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: and I think is going to be very unwieldy. Unwieldy. 55 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 2: I'm trying to think we U said the Coalition of 56 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 2: the Willing, is this like the Coalition of the unwitty? 57 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 3: Like, what are we thinking this is? 58 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,399 Speaker 1: Remember during the Gulf War when they were like, this 59 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: is the new Europe. 60 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's what we're. 61 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 3: Gonna have to workshop this before next episode. 62 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: The Coalition of the New Europe. 63 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: So it's not one of our headline segments without having 64 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 2: to talk about the stupidity of one Elon Musk. 65 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 3: What are you seeing here? 66 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: So Elon Musk, the richest man in the world, who 67 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: now has installed a very rich man as president. His 68 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: net worth went up fifty billion dollars because SpaceX, which 69 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: is a privately held space company, which you know, look, 70 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: this is crony capitalism right here. Elon helps to install 71 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: a president who will give him the contracts he wants 72 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: so that he can go to space now the public market. 73 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: This is a private company, but it's going to go public, 74 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: and the senses that this is going to help him 75 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: and that the stock, the Space stock, will go crazy. 76 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: You know, the Trump election made Wall Street feel that 77 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: they would not have more government regulation. You'll remember that 78 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: during the Biden administration they tried to break up some 79 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: of the monopolies. They tried to put in some environmental regulations, 80 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: some corporate regulations, some of these things that are really 81 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: greatly needed because unfedered capitalism has gotten us to a 82 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: place where the wealth inequality in this country is staggering. 83 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: The hope was that some of that wealth inequality could 84 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: be reversed. But unfortunate people voted for the billionaire and 85 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: because they felt things were too expensive, and now the 86 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: billionaire is helping make all of his friends richer. I mean, 87 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: this is sort of what we saw coming. I think 88 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 1: we'll see more of this kind of thing. Remember, Stale 89 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: SpaceX hasn't gone public yet. A lot of this money 90 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: is purely theoretical. But Tesla stock is up about sixty 91 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: five percent since before the election, buoled by the expectations 92 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 1: that Trump will streamline the rollout of self driving cars, 93 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: which again would be a regulatory issue. And Musk is 94 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: going into the government. So here is this guy who 95 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: owns all these companies going into the government to make 96 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 1: the government more efficient. And the thinking is by a 97 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: lot of investors that this will also serve elon so MAYA. 98 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 2: Senator Susan Collens, Republican Domain met with Pete Heigsith and 99 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: apparently questioned him. I'm sure it went about as hard 100 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 2: as when I questioned my dog about what plant they 101 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 2: ate in the backyard, and things like that might go 102 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 2: harder on my dog. To be honest, what do you 103 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 2: think happened here? 104 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to chastise you for a minute 105 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: for not. 106 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 2: The gig that Susan Collins is a serious person who 107 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: tells the truth when she does statements. 108 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 3: Okay, I'll take it. 109 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: She said she's not sure she's going to support him. 110 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 3: Right, Well, she's been not sure of a lot of things, right. 111 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: But this is a math prom, right, this is a 112 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: math prom You need Collins, you need Murkowski. You can 113 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: lose Collins and Murkowski, but you can't lose two others. 114 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: So I think the worst thing we can do is 115 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: assume these people are not going to do their fucking jobs. 116 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: And maybe they won't and we'll be furious. I think 117 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: that it's a cop out to let them to say 118 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: we don't expect this, We expect this. This is Susan 119 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: Collins's fucking job. She is up for reelection in two 120 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: years in a purple state, really in a blue state, 121 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: and if she wants to keep her job, and this 122 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: is the same thing with Tom Tilla's. I mean, Tom 123 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: Tillis is up for two years in a state that 124 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: has a democratic governor. Now, and these people need to 125 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: do their jobs, and it is not fair to give 126 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: them any kind of pass. This is their constitutional job. 127 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: And look, every time the Senate rolls over and does 128 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: what Trump wants, they are giving away their power. They 129 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: are no longer a relevant body. This is all they 130 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: have are these very few opportunities to enact guardrails, and 131 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: voters should expect it, and they should fucking call them. 132 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: You know, by the way, if you're listening to this 133 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: and you're furious, call Susan Collins's office, Call Tom Tillis's office. 134 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: They need to hear from you. They need to know 135 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: that you're watching them. 136 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 3: That I agree with. 137 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: I just don't trust her to do the right thing 138 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 2: and I trust her to say middling answers. Okay, well, 139 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 2: now we get to the real bullshit. You and I 140 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: the listeners may not know this, Somali, Let's give them 141 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 2: a look behind the scenes. We are extremely gossipy people. 142 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 2: Do you think they're shocked by this? 143 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,239 Speaker 1: Well, I I'm just happy when the Daily Mail writes 144 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: stories about people who are not me. 145 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 2: Yes, sir, you have said that. And so for those 146 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: who aren't gossipy like us. Some people may not know 147 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 2: that Donald Trump Junior has a new girlfriend. 148 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: This story has been sort of bubbling around. He has 149 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: a girlfriend called Bettina Anderson who lives in Pombied and 150 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: he's been around with her. Now you know, he's divorced 151 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: but he is technically engaged to get moving, Jill Foil. 152 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: Technically technically. 153 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: What's interesting about this is Donald Trump Junior's private citizen. 154 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: You know, good luck to him. No, the reason why 155 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: this is interesting is because it seems like his dad 156 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: is going to make Kimberly Gilfoyle the ambassador of Greece. Now, 157 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: I am all about selective outrage, so I do not 158 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: necessarily think that being outraged about an ambassadorship is anything worse. 159 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: I mean, they're all sleazy Democrats do what sleazy Republicans 160 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: do it sleazy you know, they tend to be quid 161 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: pro quoll for big donors. 162 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 2: The rarest both sides thing that you and I would say, yes, 163 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 2: both sides. 164 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,839 Speaker 1: This one thing. Both sides do. 165 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 3: It stock trading too well. 166 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: Not totally relevant, but we'll keep going. I'm just saying, 167 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: but yeah, both sides do this. No good can come 168 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: from it. But the reason why I wanted to talk 169 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: about this was because it shows the way in which 170 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: the Trump government takes care of the Trump brand. Again, 171 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: this is to be expected in Trump world. Though I 172 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: do think it's a harbinger of bad things to come, 173 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: in my mind, but I think it's also really like 174 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: keep watching what they're doing behind the scenes, keep watching 175 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: the way they're sort of rewarding people. I think that's 176 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: relevant and important. So I wanted to bring that up. 177 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 1: And you know, look, Don Junior, God bless him, but 178 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: Kimberly Gofile is being moved to grease for a very 179 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: clear reason, and it's worth thinking about that. 180 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 2: I just like to think, as you especially the letter 181 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 2: announcing it. He did one of his famous bye bye honey, I. 182 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 1: Look at you know, I think she's probably pretty happy 183 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: to have the job. 184 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 3: I dope dot it. 185 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: Stuart Stephens is a legendary campaign manager and the author 186 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: of the Conspiracy to End America Five Ways My Old 187 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: Party is Driving our Democracy to Autocracy. Welcome back to 188 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: Fast Politics, Stuart Stephens. 189 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 4: Were thanks, Molly, appreciate you asking. 190 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 1: Here we are? How did we get here? 191 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 4: Well, that's a profound question, a really good question, you know. 192 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 4: The A couple of things really strike me. When Trump 193 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 4: won in twenty sixteen, there was a great outcry, a 194 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 4: lot of demonstrations. People seemed shocked. Now he's won again, 195 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 4: and people, for the most part seem to be just 196 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 4: kind of shrugging. I don't think that's a good sign. 197 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 4: I think that's a sign of normalization. And what he's 198 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 4: proposing now to do with the government is obviously more 199 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 4: severe and extreme and dangerous than what he was proposing 200 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 4: this time in twenty sixteen. You know, I've been involved 201 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 4: in these presidential campaigns for you won and you lost. 202 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 4: I think it's always tempting to use a loss as 203 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 4: a reason to push a pet theory. If only you 204 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 4: had done this, you would have won, because there's no 205 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 4: control to disprove it. I think the Trump coalition is 206 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 4: very unsustainable. I don't buy that the Republican Party has 207 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 4: created this new multicultural coalition. You know, in Bush Royld 208 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 4: in two thousand and four, we got up to forty 209 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 4: three percent of Hispanics, but then that dropped thirty one 210 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 4: or so for Romney and McCain. And Romney and McCain, 211 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 4: we're talking about the forty millions for all to talk 212 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 4: about African Americans. Harris ended up getting about the same 213 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 4: as Biden. So the Trump base is still non college 214 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 4: educated whites. That's the fastest large demographic that is declining. 215 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 4: Two thousand, it was sixty percent of the electric Now 216 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 4: it's thirty eight percent. And it's interesting to me. You know, 217 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 4: we talk about how Harris doesn't win college educated voters. 218 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 4: She wins non college educated voters if they're not white, right. 219 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: She actually wins college educated white voters. 220 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,479 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a great trend in politics to say demographics 221 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 4: are destiny. Then a great trend to say demographics are 222 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 4: not destiny. I'm kind of in the demographics of destiny camp. 223 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,719 Speaker 4: The country is becoming a minority majority country if you're 224 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 4: sixteen years in younger majority or non white. So I 225 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 4: don't think that there's anything that Trump is going to 226 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 4: do that is going to increase his popularity. I think 227 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 4: he's at a higher order mark now, which would not 228 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 4: be a typical for any president. But what he's proposing 229 00:12:54,840 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 4: to do, particularly the deportation, if you actually do that 230 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 4: and have thousands of paramilitary law enforcement rounding up brown people, 231 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 4: it's going to be such a shock. And if you're Hispanic, 232 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 4: he voted for Trump maybe because of the economy, and 233 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 4: he's deporting your father in law, Just not so sure 234 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 4: that's going to keep you stuck to Trump. These attacks 235 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 4: on journalists, these nuts like Caspitel. I think the whole 236 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 4: Elon Musk thing is not going to wear well. You 237 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 4: can't have two extreme narcissists on the same stage for 238 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 4: very long. And at a certain point, you know, Musk 239 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 4: and Ramasamy are weirdos, but they're not stupid. And at 240 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 4: a certain point they're going to realize to belong to 241 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 4: a committee that the only other person is Marjorie Taylor 242 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 4: Green is an insult. This crazy stuff they're proposing. They're 243 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 4: not going to pass any of this stuff. It's like 244 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 4: deals with anything. Cutting entitlements, you know, they may found 245 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 4: that there's some and they will find if you go 246 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 4: into government, you can find that there's things. Why is 247 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:03,839 Speaker 4: there a big grant study the appropriation rate of polar bears? Well, 248 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 4: that actually probably is a reason to that. But you're 249 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 4: not going to be able to go in and cut 250 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 4: tradions of dollars without having a fracture in the civil 251 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 4: contract in America. So I'm optimistic. I think Democrats should 252 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 4: have a very good year. I wish the Democrats were 253 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 4: more aggressive about defining these crazy nominees and the risk 254 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 4: of these nominees. They seem to be taking a approach that, well, 255 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 4: we'll focus on this when they come up. I need'd 256 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 4: be better if they were out there holding press conferences 257 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 4: and doing whatever they can to show the danger of them, 258 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 4: So you're not leaving it to the last moment, you know. 259 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 4: To me, if you look back, the model for gold standard, 260 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 4: as it were for communications on that center left side 261 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 4: was the January sixth Committee. They did a brilliant job 262 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 4: of making it relevant, of telling a story, and I 263 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 4: think that there to be well advised to look at 264 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 4: what they did successfully then and try to imitate it. 265 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: Now, let's talk through for a minute what the sort 266 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: of Trump coalition he has, this coalition, I mean, we 267 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: are in this Usually what happens between administrations is there's 268 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: this seventy plus day period where everyone is kind of 269 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: muted because there's a sense in which you want to 270 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: give the coming administration a chance. I'm just saying historically, 271 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: I personally don't necessarily feel this way, but there's historically 272 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: the sort of seventy whatever plus days before the inauguration, 273 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: between the election and the inauguration is a period when 274 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: everyone is like hopes against hope that things will go okay. 275 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: I'm curious when we talk about this coalition that Trump has. 276 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: You have white, non college educated a lot of young 277 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: people a lot, but more young people than perhaps many 278 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: of us thought. Then you have a kind of he 279 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: did way better with Hispanic voters than perhaps he could 280 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: have dreamed, you know, places like the Rio Grand Valey 281 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: voting for him. And then you have non college educated, 282 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: older people, white people. There's a mix, but that's largely 283 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: the coalition. It strikes me that the two biggest things 284 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: on Trump's agenda right now are deportation and tax cuts, 285 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: and everything else is sort of shades, but tax cuts 286 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: for the very wealthy because those are about to expire, 287 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: and deportation. I'm wondering if you could just explain to 288 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: us sort of Republicans they will soon have a one 289 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: seat majority in the House of Representatives. Mike Johnson is 290 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: not Paul Ryan by any stretch of the imagination. In 291 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: order to deport a million people, two million people, he 292 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: wants to deport, you know, more people than there are 293 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: quote unquote I legal immigrants. Don't you need money for those? 294 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, you need money. It's a massive logistical operation. So 295 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 4: you're going to build holding camps with them. Really, we're 296 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 4: really going to do that in America in twenty twenty five. 297 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 4: People are going to compayn them my tax dollars to 298 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 4: set up internment camps. And this idea that well, we're 299 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,239 Speaker 4: not going to separate families is we're going to take 300 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 4: them all. Like that little issue on this is so 301 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 4: you know, it's been reported that Elon Musk a lot 302 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 4: about his student status during his naturalization process. If that's true, 303 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 4: that's grounds to lose his citizenship. That means if we 304 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,479 Speaker 4: deport Elon Musk, we'reing to deport his children too. Really, 305 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 4: the spectacle of it is going to be so offensive, 306 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 4: and you go back to the cases that we know 307 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 4: of police brutality resulted in deaths is ongoing issue, and 308 00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 4: then you have one specific horrible image video. You know, 309 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 4: all of this is not going to go down quietly. 310 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 4: It's going to be people recording on their phones when 311 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 4: they're coming into homes. I still don't think this is 312 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 4: where America is. I think the key thing for people 313 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 4: who didn't vote for Trump is to not be deluded 314 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 4: that you were wrong. It just made you lost an election. 315 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 4: You know, I grew up in Mississippi and I remember 316 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 4: sitting around watching my parents. They would support all these 317 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 4: candidates who are not segregationists. Then they would lose. That 318 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 4: didn't make my parents want to believe that they should 319 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 4: be segregationists. And I think that's very important to keep 320 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 4: that we're right there wrong. If you support a president 321 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 4: who wants to jail former members of Congress because they 322 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 4: investigated the greatest attack on the capital since the War 323 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 4: of eighteen twelve, If you support a president who wants 324 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 4: to jail journalists for doing their job, you're not a patriot. 325 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 4: You're not. I don't think we should give them that space, 326 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 4: should give them that sort of benefit of the doubt. 327 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 4: That's not just a difference of opinion, it's a completely 328 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 4: different view of what it means to be an American. 329 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're in this sort of cabinet secretary run up. 330 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: Republicans have an opportunity to engage in their constitutional duty 331 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: of advising consent Article two, Section two. You know Gates 332 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: is out. This is something victory is even a small 333 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: victory is a victory. The reporting was a Ted Cruz 334 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: called Donald Trump and said, you don't have the votes. 335 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: What do you think about where they are right now? 336 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 4: It goes back to my talks about Democrats and needing 337 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 4: to do a better job. I think democrats ought to 338 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 4: be out there saying we're going to ask every nominee 339 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 4: do you believe Donald Trump lost a free and fair 340 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,360 Speaker 4: election in twenty sixteen? And if they say no, we're 341 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 4: not going to vote for you, nothing else matters. If 342 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 4: you're Marco Rubio and you say no, we're not going 343 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 4: to vote for you, that should be a standard. It 344 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 4: should be a standard. Do you believe that the Ellens 345 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 4: who were convicted for assaulting police officers on January sixth, 346 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 4: twenty one should be pardoned? If you say yes, you're 347 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 4: disqualified for being a cabinet member, I think they ought 348 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 4: to start off every hearing that way. Do you believe? 349 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 4: Because what Trump is trying to do is erect his 350 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 4: loyalty test. Isn't a test are you loyal to me? 351 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 4: In the same way you would say is a vice 352 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 4: president loyal to a president? The loyalty test is do 353 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 4: you believe I Donald Trump have the ability to override 354 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 4: the Constitution. It's like the fura oath, and you can't 355 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 4: allow that to happen because that undermines the whole concept 356 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 4: of the Bill of rights, whole concept of rule of law. 357 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 4: So I think those are to be threshold questions and 358 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 4: I wish Democrats would be out there hitting this harder. 359 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: Right now, there is a kind of you know, there 360 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: will be hearings, right You will see publicized hearings. You 361 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: will see members ask these potential cabinet secretaries about you know, 362 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: when it comes to Hagsath his payment for an alleged 363 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: sexual assault, when it comes to when it comes to RFK. 364 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,719 Speaker 1: You know, the level of skeletons in the closet are breathtaking. 365 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things that I am curious 366 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: about is if Trump has an agenda that is wildly 367 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: outside of the norm, that will take money and goodwill, 368 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: and I mean, how much does this cabinet secretary derail him? 369 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: This cabinet secretary fight. 370 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 4: Well, you know, it's a very interesting question because you 371 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,959 Speaker 4: think about it. Why is he nominating Hexit? Why not 372 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 4: nominate say DeSantis would get bipartisan support. Been in the military, 373 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 4: say okay, he's run a big organization in the Florida government. 374 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 4: Will may not like it. People are not like his 375 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 4: views on women in combat. I don't know what the 376 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 4: standards views are. Assume he's against it, but you'd still 377 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 4: vote for him. So but he goes and picks this 378 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 4: you know, weirdo, clearly damaged, misogynist guy who, like so 379 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 4: many in the Trump world, they use the public sphere 380 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 4: to work through personal problems. M And you know, government 381 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 4: should be a lot of things, but it shouldn't be therapy, 382 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 4: and it shouldn't be a way for you to get 383 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 4: even into people that you know put you in lockers 384 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 4: in high school. Because Stephen Miller, it's very self defeating. 385 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 4: And there's this tendency to give Trump credit when he 386 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 4: does something stupid. For well, there must be you know, 387 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 4: some higher plan here that we're just not grasping, Like 388 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 4: I'll nominate Matt Getz and then you know, we know 389 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 4: he won't get it, so then they'll allow me to 390 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 4: get a headset. I don't think it's that calculating. 391 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: I would never subscribe three dimensional chests to any of 392 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: this exactly. 393 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 4: It's just why have this fight. So Marco Rubio is 394 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 4: a good example, Marco Rubio, I would expect they'll get 395 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 4: bipartisan support. And look, Marco Rubio, it's a chairman's Republican 396 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 4: Center and Intelligence Committee, Republican head of it that came 397 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 4: to the conclusion that Russia tried to help elect Trump 398 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,719 Speaker 4: in twenty sixteen, and Rubio has been right on Ukraine. 399 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: I have a question about Marco, which is, why would 400 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: anyone who has seen Trump in action take this job? Right, Like, 401 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: if Marco goes into this job and Trump decides to 402 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: fire him, which if history is any guy, that seems 403 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,239 Speaker 1: very likely that at some point they're going to come 404 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,199 Speaker 1: into collision and Trump is going to say, you know, 405 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: I never forget it. You know, you're not doing what 406 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: I want. He doesn't get to go back to the Senate. 407 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I suspect in the case of Rubio, 408 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 4: he just thinks that that moment won't come because ultimately 409 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 4: he'll refer to Trump, you know. I mean, I think 410 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 4: Marco Rubio, it's just remember this is the guy who 411 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 4: was on the cover of Time magazine twenty fourteen or so, 412 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 4: you know, the Republican savior, you know, who went out 413 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 4: and spoke truth for a very brief time about Donald Trump, 414 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 4: and then Trump just broke him. And I think it's 415 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 4: an incredibly sad spectacle. But I don't think Rubio has 416 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 4: any principles that Trump is going to violate such that 417 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 4: he would say, you know, if we do this on 418 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 4: resigning or trying me. I'm not going to carry this out. 419 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 4: I just don't think it's in his DNA. I think 420 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 4: he's just one of these sort of accidental figures. Came 421 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 4: up in Florida politics really because Jeb Bush was trying 422 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 4: to build this Hispanic Republican coalition and people forget about this, 423 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 4: but you know, in Florida it's legal to be a 424 00:24:53,440 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 4: state legislature legislator and the lobbyist, and Rubio was. He 425 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 4: got elected because he ran against Charlie Christ for the Senate. 426 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 4: Charlie Christ was a client of mine. Charlie Chris should 427 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 4: have run for reelection as governor. Instead he ran for 428 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 4: the Senate. It was clear from the beginning that he 429 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,719 Speaker 4: was not well positioned to win a Republican primary. So 430 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 4: ultimately Charlie got out ran as an independent, which was 431 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 4: looney we quit working for. And then and then Rubio 432 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 4: got elected, and you know what has he really done? 433 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 4: So I think for Rubio to say okay on Secretary 434 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 4: of State, I wouldn't be surprised if he does go 435 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 4: the distance. 436 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: Stuart Stevens, thank you, thank you, thank you, really appreciate you. 437 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 5: Thank you. 438 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 4: Molly love the show. Listen to it every episode. 439 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 1: Alex Gibney is a legendary documentary producer and director of 440 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: films like Going Clear, Zero Days, and his latest The 441 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 1: BB Files. Welcome Back to Fast Politics, Alex Gibney. 442 00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 5: Thank you so much, Molly. 443 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: This movie is amazing. Just the whole story behind it 444 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: is so interesting. So explain to me what the dB files. 445 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: How this came to path. 446 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 5: You know, one day I was on a you know, 447 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 5: I just looked at my signal and I get no. 448 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 5: I get queries on signal from time to time. Some 449 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 5: of them are crank calls and some of them are 450 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 5: the real thing. This one was the real thing. And 451 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 5: the person who ultimately became my source said, I have 452 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 5: this footage that I think is very valuable. It's police 453 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:37,719 Speaker 5: interrogation videos of Benjamin Netanya, who's wife Sarah is Sonya 454 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 5: year and many many others, all relating to the netanyahuo 455 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 5: corruption investigation. Now, this was in twenty twenty three, before 456 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 5: October seventh. This is at the height of this sort 457 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,959 Speaker 5: of the judicial overhaul crisis in Israel. I was very interested, 458 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 5: but I don't speak Hebrews, so I wasn't able to 459 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 5: you know, I could see it, and he sent some 460 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 5: sample was over the trans and I could see it, 461 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 5: but I didn't know precisely. I involved a journalist named 462 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 5: Reviv Drucker from Israel, who is a very talented investigative 463 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 5: journalist and has been on the corruption beat for some time, 464 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,239 Speaker 5: and he was able to confirm that this was a 465 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 5: mother load. And then I brought on Alexis Bloom to 466 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 5: direct the film, and we faced the prospect of trying 467 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 5: to make this film in secret while I was trying 468 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 5: to raise money for it in secret. But it turned 469 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,239 Speaker 5: out to be something very powerful, though it started as 470 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 5: something other than what it became. 471 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: BB is very important because his corruption, even though it's 472 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 1: perhaps not at the same scale of Trump's corruption, there 473 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: is a lot of parallels. Israel is in a very 474 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: complicated place because of BB and any number of other factors. 475 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: But can you explain to us what the sort of 476 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 1: pressures and these kind of documentaries are likely going to 477 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 1: be the thing that, if anything, acts as a guardrail 478 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,199 Speaker 1: to keep the corruption that Trump well, you know, hopefully not, 479 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: we all hope not, but to keep corruption in check. 480 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: So talk to us about what the crosswinds were like 481 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: and what that experience was like. 482 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 5: You mean, the cross lends in terms of getting it. 483 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: Made, yes, and also just the anxiety and that I'm 484 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: sure you had to behave in secrecy, and I mean, 485 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,199 Speaker 1: just talk to me about what that was like. 486 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 5: We had to do it in secret because we didn't 487 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 5: know what kind of blowback there might be when these 488 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 5: materials surface. And then of course there was a period, 489 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 5: you know, post October seventh, where we wondered, how do 490 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 5: we reckon with this now? I mean, it was a 491 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 5: horrific moment, and how did it relate to the story 492 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 5: we were telling. Then soon after Netanyahu embarked on this 493 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 5: horrific killing campaign in Gaza, and it became clear that 494 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 5: there were levels of corruption to this story. That was 495 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 5: what knitted it all together, and that his attempts to 496 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 5: sort of elude judgment, which of course is very resonant 497 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 5: with Trump, his attempts to undermine the rule of law, 498 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 5: and his attempts to sort of treat the government as 499 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 5: a kind of personal fiefdom, even though we know that, 500 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 5: you know, in order to stay in power, he had 501 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 5: to make these alliances with these incredibly far right characters 502 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 5: and is Smo Trick and Ben Giber in particular, it 503 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 5: just showed us the way to think about the story 504 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,959 Speaker 5: as a tale of Titanic corruption, because you take venal 505 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 5: petty corruption, you know, trading expensive champagne and cigars and 506 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 5: jewelry for political favors, to a point where you've got 507 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 5: well this is like real time, Sorry about that, where 508 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 5: suddenly you've got a man who's literally embarking on a 509 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,719 Speaker 5: permanent war in order to keep out of prison. That 510 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 5: is just a staggering level of corruption. 511 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: I want you to talk a little more about that 512 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: sort of war that he really did do to stay 513 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: in power and he managed. I mean, we all saw 514 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: it happen in real time, but it's still is a 515 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: bit stocking. 516 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 5: It is shocking, and in a way, I think what 517 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 5: the film could do, in what some of the print 518 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 5: reporting about this could not, is to show in real 519 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 5: time with this footage the sort of venality of these characters, 520 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 5: so that it becomes more believable that they would both 521 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 5: undermine democracy and also act in a way. What was 522 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 5: consistent about it was there was a sense of entitlement 523 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 5: in the footage that I think even Israelis who have 524 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 5: pirated the film at this point rapaciously have noticed and 525 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 5: been gobsmacked by that led to this idea that what 526 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 5: is good for the state is good for me, and 527 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 5: what is good for me is good for the state, 528 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 5: right tas Seinoa. And that was really an incredible insight 529 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 5: that this footage provided. Even though you know obviously these 530 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 5: police interrogation videos take place well going back to twenty 531 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 5: seventeen eighteen, it still gives insight into the characters and 532 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 5: how they operate, which sort of blows a hole in 533 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 5: this idea that nets in Yahoo is Israel. The nets 534 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 5: you know that he's operating according to his own agenda, 535 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 5: not the nation's agenda, or he thinks they're one and 536 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 5: the same. 537 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: That seals so deeply trumpy. You know that there is 538 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: a connection between the good of the autocrat and the 539 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: good of the state. Israel is in a similar moment 540 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: to America. Right, both countries are in the grips of 541 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: an autocrat. Explain to me where you were able to 542 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: release this film and sort of what the confines were. 543 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 5: The one deal I had to make with the source, 544 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 5: and that was the condition was that I not released 545 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 5: the film or caused the film to be released officially. 546 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 5: In Israel, there's a privacy law in Israel, which says 547 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 5: that if somebody is photographed or tape recorded as part 548 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 5: of an official proceeding, like a police interrogation, that material 549 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 5: can't be published without the permission of the subject. In 550 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 5: this case that ta yahoo Sarah yayir. We're definitely not 551 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 5: going to agree. So somebody who can be linked to 552 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 5: that can go to prison. So the source said, I 553 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 5: will give you this material on one condition. You can 554 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 5: do with it whatever you will, but you can't cause 555 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 5: it to be officially released in Israel, So it can 556 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 5: be released all over the world, but not in Israel. 557 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 5: And that that's a little bit why on our trailer 558 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 5: and other things we played games with reactions and voice alteration. 559 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 5: Just with the trailer, anybody wh wants to see it 560 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 5: outside Israel can see it now. It just so happens 561 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 5: that as the film has started to emerge, people have 562 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 5: pirated it and they're sharing faciously without my permission or 563 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 5: anybody else's permission in Israel. And I must say that 564 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,959 Speaker 5: the reaction there has been, you know, staggering. People are 565 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 5: really shocked by the materials in a way that people 566 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 5: predicted to me they wouldn't be because they know this 567 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 5: stuff but it's it's one thing to know content another 568 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 5: thing to see people behave, particularly Sarah and Yayir, their 569 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 5: contempt towards the state, their contempt toward the rule of 570 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 5: law really comes out in the way they insult the 571 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 5: detectives and the way they act in such an entitled 572 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 5: manner throughout all these videos. It's really something to see. 573 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: I really do think that their ability to really believe 574 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: that this is all for them, it feels very Trumpian. 575 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 5: The one distinction I might make though, I think Trump, 576 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 5: you know, obviously falls into this, and malignant narcissists often 577 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 5: do this sense of grandiosity. But for many years, I 578 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 5: think BB felt that he was on a mission and 579 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 5: convinced everybody else that he was on a mission to 580 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 5: do what was best for Israel. But over time, that mission, 581 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 5: that noble cause, corrupted him. You know, police have a 582 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 5: term called noble cause corruption. And so he began to think, well, 583 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 5: I'm doing so much good for the country, I deserve 584 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 5: a few favors, Like how about some cigars, how about 585 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 5: some champagne? How about jewelry? How about people pay for 586 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 5: me wherever I go? You know, oh yeah, sure, so 587 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 5: what if I give people some regulatory favors worth hundreds 588 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 5: of millions of dollars in exchange for favorable coverage. I'm 589 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 5: doing so much good for the country. So this rationalization 590 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 5: that takes place now Trump, I think always came from 591 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 5: a much more personal, personal gain perspective. Is like just 592 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 5: you know, I think he ran in twenty sixteen because 593 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 5: he thought it'd be better for his brand, he'd have 594 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 5: a cable TV show that'd be great, and then, much 595 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 5: to a shock and surprise, he won the presidency this time. 596 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 5: I think he's now assumed a sort of grandiosity though 597 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 5: though I think he ran, you know, eighty percent of 598 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 5: the reason he ran was to stay out of prison. 599 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 5: So there are some kind of eerie parallels. Though I 600 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 5: think Nathan Yahuo kind of started in a different kind 601 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 5: of a place. 602 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: This closing up to the far right in order to 603 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 1: stay empower similar thing Trump did right largely, yes, quickly. 604 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 5: On aborshe Trump was never going to get elected unless 605 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 5: he had the evangelicals, and so he made that Faustian 606 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 5: bargain and basically said, if I get in, I'll give 607 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 5: you the justices that will overturn Roe v. Wade. So 608 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 5: that became a Passion Project, and evangelicals could say to themselves, 609 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 5: you know, God has delivered us a sinner to take 610 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 5: us to the promised. 611 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: Land, right, And that is similar to Nan Yahu, right, he. 612 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 5: Is, though I think in Natiao's case it was much 613 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 5: more pragmatic. In other words, how can I stay in power? 614 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 5: The only way stay in power is to form a 615 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 5: coalition with these people with whom I would not have 616 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 5: my photograph taken with, you know, five years earlier. And 617 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 5: and their agenda was really a rapacious agenda. I mean 618 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 5: they wanted to utterly annex the West Bank, which, by 619 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 5: the way, you know, I would argue is one of 620 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,240 Speaker 5: the things that allowed for the attack on ten to seven, 621 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 5: because we have there's a there's a moment in the 622 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 5: in the interrogation tapes in the film where Natia was 623 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 5: talking with the police about how he's keeping Hamas in 624 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 5: check and saying, you know what they say and the 625 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 5: Godfather keep your friends close and your enemies closer. But 626 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 5: I think the idea was buy off Hamas so that 627 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 5: that will undermine the Palestinian authority so we can then 628 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 5: continually rapaciously expand settlements into the West Bank. That was 629 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 5: also to some extent what was going on with the 630 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 5: judicial reform? Do I think in that case, just like 631 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 5: with Trump, the judicial reform was kind of like, how 632 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 5: can I take control or exert greater influence over the 633 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,240 Speaker 5: judiciary so I can affect my own cases. 634 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and stay in power as long as bossball. 635 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 5: Right, stay in power a desperate need to stay in power. 636 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: Are there lessons from this story? Obviously net Yahoo is 637 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: still in power, Trump about to take power again. But 638 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: do you think there are lessons from this slope? 639 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 5: I do, And I think one of the lessons is 640 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 5: pay attention early, because when you see that kind of 641 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 5: corruption manifesting itself, you can't look the other way. And 642 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 5: the other lesson I think is don't ever fall for 643 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 5: that argument. The end justifies the means. BB always uses it. 644 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 5: I stand for Israel. Therefore, do not criticize me, because 645 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 5: if you criticize me, you're criticizing Israel. But once you 646 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 5: start to say unequivocally that the end justifies the means, 647 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 5: you're traveling down the road to corruption that will only 648 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 5: get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. So being 649 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 5: suspicious of that idea at the beginning is really important. 650 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,720 Speaker 5: It's kind of like, how do you sniff this stuff 651 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 5: out early before it's too late and suddenly they're autocrats 652 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 5: with an enormous amount of power. 653 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's just so much important information from this. 654 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: And also you really do get the sense that or 655 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: at least answer this question for me if you don't mind, 656 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,760 Speaker 1: Do you actually get the sense that this will change 657 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: things in Israel? 658 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,319 Speaker 5: I hope. So. I think a lot of Jews in 659 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 5: this country feel strongly, you know, have felt very powerfully 660 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 5: about seeing this film because they see a distance it's 661 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,720 Speaker 5: placing between Nettignaho and Israel that he is not Israel. 662 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 5: It's not the same thing. And obviously Israel at this 663 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,399 Speaker 5: moment is a deeply divided country, just as we are. 664 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 5: But I do think that seeing him in this light 665 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 5: and separating him from the state as if he is 666 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 5: the embodiment of it, and also seeing the cynicism with 667 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 5: which he's conducting these kind of forever wars, I hope, 668 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 5: will have an impact in Israel. But that's ultimately up 669 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 5: to the Israelis and to some extent us, I mean, 670 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 5: you know, we're arming netsa Yahoo I. 671 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: Should have Yeah, do you get the sense that the 672 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: Biden administration has any sort of understanding of what's going 673 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: on there with Ntyaho, I do. 674 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 5: But I just think they put themselves in such a 675 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 5: feckless position in order to do anything about it. I 676 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,240 Speaker 5: thought Netiyah who played Biden like a fiddle, and Biden 677 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 5: would stamp his feet and say I'm so angry with 678 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 5: you BB, and BB would just chuckle, you know, because 679 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 5: he knew that Biden wasn't going to stop the flow 680 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 5: of weapons, which is the one thing that would have 681 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 5: gotten everybody's attention. If you're going to threaten somebody a 682 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 5: bit prepared to follow through on that threat. If you 683 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 5: really want the carnage to stop, then you have to 684 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 5: be prepared to take the steps that only this country 685 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 5: can take to you know, affect a change like that. 686 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,800 Speaker 5: But you have to be willing to take those steps. 687 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: And it did seem like Nanya who just outfoxed Biden 688 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: and the admin. And at every point. 689 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 5: I think he did. And also once even once the 690 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 5: campaign turned to Kamala, you could see him turning up 691 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 5: the heat in the Middle East. It's like, this is 692 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 5: my opportunity. Nobody from the Democratic Party is going to 693 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 5: do anything to me, right now, and so I'm just 694 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 5: gonna do whatever I want. And you can see him 695 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 5: opening front after front after front now even bombing Syria 696 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 5: after Assad is toppled. You can make all sorts of 697 00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,359 Speaker 5: arguments strategically about this or that, but you can see 698 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,479 Speaker 5: him playing the card of being the wartime president. Let's 699 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 5: you know, I think the other analogies here also go 700 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 5: back to nine to eleven. I mean, let's remember that 701 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 5: the Bush was an incredibly unpopular and almost discredited president 702 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 5: prior to nine to eleven, and he used nine to 703 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,720 Speaker 5: eleven and the need to win the war on terror? 704 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 5: How did that work out to ennoble himself and ultimately 705 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,240 Speaker 5: want a second term. But you know, into that moment, 706 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 5: the wheels were falling off the car. 707 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 1: Oh it's so true, alex Thank you so much for 708 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: coming on and talking to me about this. I really 709 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,760 Speaker 1: had wanted to talk to you about it, and I 710 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,840 Speaker 1: am heartened by the fact that you're doing stuff like that. 711 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 5: Well, thank you so much, Molly. I should add for 712 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 5: everybody listening like this is this is a FELM I produced. 713 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 5: It was directed by Alexis Bloom, who did a spectacular 714 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 5: job and at least in this country. It's on a 715 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 5: new platform called Jolt dot Film, So I encourage everybody 716 00:40:58,880 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 5: to see. 717 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 1: It, and it's really easy to download and it's not expensive, 718 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:08,240 Speaker 1: and you know, it's the future, hopefully, hopefully. Yeah, thank you, Alex. 719 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 5: All Right, Molly, good to talk to you. 720 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 3: There no moment. 721 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 2: Jesse Cannon, all right, Molly Trump first season, first presidency. 722 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,280 Speaker 2: I'm gonna shock you. Looks like there are some abusive powers. 723 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: DOJ secretly obtained phone and text message logs at forty 724 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: three congressional staffers and two members of Congress seeking to 725 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,879 Speaker 1: investigate leaks of classified information. And we're not surprised because 726 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: we knew this was coming. They got these logs at 727 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 1: forty three congressional staffers, two members of Congress in a 728 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: broader probe. So this is a report from the Inspector 729 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: General that the DOJ didn't act with political motives but 730 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: failed to take sufficient account of constitutional separation of the power. 731 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,759 Speaker 1: You think they really didn't act with political motives. I 732 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 1: think they did act with motives. What fucking I mean? 733 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: This is like Democrats bringing his stuff to animal to 734 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: a knife fight. Yeah, they just did it because they 735 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 1: I mean, what other motive is there? Anyway, So this 736 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 1: is a Bill Barr special. He personally approved the news 737 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,399 Speaker 1: media subpoenas in twenty twenty. A committee that had been 738 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: set up to review any such moves was not consulted, 739 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: as policy required. The report said Bill Barr did not 740 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 1: cooperate with the investigation because why would he. This is 741 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: going to be too California Democrats Adam Schiff and Erswolwow 742 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 1: that they had been targeted in these records seizures. Look, 743 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 1: this is going to look like nothing compared to what 744 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:37,840 Speaker 1: they're going to try to do next season. 745 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 2: As someone married to a congressional staffer, I really feel 746 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 2: bad for that bureaucrowd is going to have to sit 747 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,320 Speaker 2: through all the dog photos and beabs. 748 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this is where we are, and I think 749 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 1: that it's really, really, really bad, and I think we're 750 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,759 Speaker 1: just seeing the beginning of it. And I think we 751 00:42:54,880 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 1: have to just be so incredibly vigilant about reporting on 752 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,919 Speaker 1: this and talking about it and making sure, Look, these 753 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: guys respond to respond to pushback. The only way to 754 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: save American democracy is to make sure that we're vigilant. 755 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,439 Speaker 1: You know. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. 756 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 1: Tune in every Monday Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear 757 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 1: the best minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. 758 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,400 Speaker 1: If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a 759 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: friend and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.