WEBVTT - Mike Schur - Pt. 1 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:08.920 My name is Michael Shore. I was a writer for 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.760 the first four point two seasons and a producer on 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:26.520 The Office. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:31.160 The Office Deep Dive. I am your host Brian Baumgartner. 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:36.400 Today I am thrilled to present to you or introduced 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:40.640 to you, Mr Mike Sure. Mike was one of the 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:44.680 original writers that was hired by Greg Daniels for the Office, 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:49.400 and as some of you may know, Mike has had 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:54.840 an incredible career since then. At the beginning of season five, 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:59.360 Mike left to create Parks and Wreck with Greg, and 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:01.880 then after that he went on to create and produce 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:06.559 some of the greatest comedies of the last decade, like Brooklyn, 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.319 Master of None and The Good Place with one of 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:15.440 my favorites, Ted Danson. And although that is very impressive, 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:23.679 by far, his greatest singular professional achievement was his portrayal 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:30.800 of Mose Shrewd. That's right, Mike played Mose. Now Mos 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:33.199 did not, as we all know, have a lot to say, 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.959 but Mike, Mike is one of the best talkers that 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:41.640 I know. He is an amazing storyteller. It's like his 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:45.039 entire brain, it just it just thinks in stories. I 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.480 don't know how else to put it. He is a genius, 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.800 and he is a genius. But truly, I could listen 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:52.960 to Mike all day. I know that you're going to 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.360 feel the same way. Plus, this episode is the beginning 0:01:56.440 --> 0:02:00.320 of another mini deep dive into the writer's Room, which 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.640 you will hear much more about next week. When I 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.160 talked to Greg Daniels, So pull up a chair, put 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.960 up your feet unless you're driving, and enjoy my conversation 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:20.920 with Mike Schure, Bubble and Squeak. I love it Bubble 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:26.800 and Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker cooking at every month, 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:40.480 left over from the night before. Um are we just starting? 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:42.760 Are they really just chatting? Yeah? I mean everything is 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:47.880 being recorded. Um uh, what were you doing before you 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.239 join the writing staff? I was at s n L 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:55.640 from oh four. My then girlfriend now wife had moved 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:58.520 out here in two thousand two and we were dating 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.720 long distance, and it was like, all right, well one 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:03.680 of us has to move and it made more sense 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:05.640 for me to leave SNL, where I had been for 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:09.760 six years and come out to l A. So I 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.320 told Lauren I was leaving sn L at the end 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.920 of the year, and had a year to kind of prepare, 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.200 wrote wrote spec scripts and came out here and had 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:21.720 meetings and everything, and had I had a million meetings, 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.840 and Gregg's was the most interesting by far, like for 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.560 so many reasons. First of all, because Greg's an interesting person, 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.000 and because I loved the British Office, and that that 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:33.680 meeting was like two two or two and a half hours. 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:37.440 Lee Eisenberg told me about he was going in to 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:41.600 meet and his agents said, just so you know, Greg 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:45.760 does really long meetings, and so Lee said, he left 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.240 and was like, that was a really long meeting. It 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.960 went well, but it was like, yeah, but he does 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.760 really long meetings. I was talking to Aubrey Plaza the 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:57.200 other day and she was reminding me of this thing 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:59.920 I've forgotten, which was so after season four, Greg and 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.120 I started developing Parks and Wreck together, and Alison Jones 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:07.440 called me and said, I just met with the weirdest 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:10.120 woman I've ever met with. She's like twenty three and 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:12.840 she's here from uc B and I I don't know 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:14.640 if there's a part for her, but you should meet her. 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.000 And when Allison Jones tells you to meet someone, you 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:19.920 you meet them immediately and so I was like, yeah, however, 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:21.960 come over right now. So she came over and I 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:24.240 went and told Greg who was We were at the 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.799 office offices, and I said this, Allison sending this actress 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:31.359 to meet us for the new show, and he was like, okay, great. 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.920 So Aubrey came over and I said, Hi, nice to 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:36.560 meet you. Greg. Daniel is going to join us in 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:38.440 a second, and she was like okay, cool. And we 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:40.480 talked for like fifteen or twenty minutes, and then Greg 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:42.800 came in and then like ten minutes of the meeting, 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:44.799 he just got up and left without saying a word, 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.880 and Aubrey looked around, like what's happening, and I just 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:50.880 I was used to it, so I just kept talking. 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.600 And then like half an hour later Greg came back 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:55.520 and just sat down with no explanation of where he 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:57.839 had gone, and then talked for another like fifteen minutes, 0:04:57.880 --> 0:04:59.400 and then just without a word, in the middle of 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:01.240 a sentence, got up and left again. And it was like, 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:05.040 this is what happens with Daniels is meetings are not 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.080 normal meetings. Like one way or another, something weird is 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:12.000 going to happen. Someone was telling us about Alison Jones 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:17.480 about being in casting meeting at Ben Silverman's old bungalow. 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:20.880 They're all sitting around a conference table and they're talking 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:25.320 about casting for the pilot and suddenly Greg gets up 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:30.640 and jumps out the window and they all are like what. 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.880 And apparently Nancy Perkins in her like Boston outfit was 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.599 accent was like I've heard of producers wanting to jump 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.880 out and thankfully was on the first floor. But he uh, 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:45.000 you know, he had left a sweater in his car, right, 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:47.040 and that was the most efficient way to get just 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:50.960 like he liked his terminator brain like analyzed the layout 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:55.799 of the building. It was like, oh, the quickest route. Yeah, um, 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:57.440 so that was your That was the first time you've 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.520 met Greg? Yes, I I knew who he was obviously 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:02.799 and h but I never met him before the meeting, 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.640 And um, we had a shocking amount in common, like 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.000 we both we were we both into Harvard, wrote for 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:11.680 the Lampoon and both wrote a us an l met 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:15.680 our girlfriends and then later wives. There later when my 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:19.000 son was born he had red hair and Greg's son 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.039 has red hair. There was it was like it's a 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.359 very weird series of things. But um, yeah, I've never 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:28.640 met him before. Um, there was a moment um we 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.720 were in the old and those days the offices were 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.480 in down in Culver City, and there was a there 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:37.719 was a moment where we were deep in the weeds 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:41.719 on the episode that I think became Hot Girl, the 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:45.960 Amy Adams episode, and we were pitching and pitching and 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.960 pitching different ideas and whatever, and I was I had 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:53.120 a notebook and I was like jotting things down, and uh, 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:55.719 suddenly he said, Greg said, okay, well, let's hang on 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:59.000 for a second, Like what makes a good story, right, Um, 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:00.800 here's what you need for a good story. And he 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:05.239 started talking about, you know, basic building blocks of storytelling, motivation, steaks, 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:09.200 twists and turns, escalation, stuff like that. And he was 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.520 sort of like almost just thinking out loud, right like 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:14.800 this is what so we can't break this story? Why 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.000 is that? But he was doing it in such a 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.840 sort of professorial and thorough way that I realized like, oh, 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:23.920 this is just a class. I'm in a class now. 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:27.120 And I remember turning the page in my notebook and 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.200 starting to take notes like I was in college, just 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.120 writing as fast as I could, like writing as if 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:35.000 he were a professor in a biochemistry class. This was 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.320 having subconsciously, you were no, No, No, I knew. I 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:39.600 saw what was happening, like this is this is the 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:42.680 theory of this world. And I just took notes for 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.480 like forty five minutes, like I was in college, and 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.200 this is not a joke. There are I still have them, 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:50.960 and I still go back and look at them, like 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.040 to this day. That's now, that was two thousand four, 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:56.040 that was probably August of two thousand four, and I 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.200 still there are still moments where I'm like, why doesn't 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:01.280 this makes end? And I'll go back and look at 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.960 what he wrote, what he said that day off the 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.520 top of his head, and oh, you're right, You're right, 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:11.440 that's what's missing. Um, like maybe a day later, No, 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:14.520 I'm sorry, much earlier. And it's like the first day 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:17.680 of work, and you know, I went to pitching, pitching pitching, 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.160 and I said like, oh, I had an episode idea 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:24.840 where there's like a stray dog in the parking lot 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:27.559 and that the office kind of like adopts the dog 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.960 as like an office pet. And Greg, I've really excited, 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.400 and he was like, oh, oh, okay, I hadn't I 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:35.240 had a similar idea, had a similar idea. That's a 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.040 good sign. And he brought out a spiral notebook and 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.760 he flipped through it, flip flip flip, page after page 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.120 of like serial killer level writing, like margin to margin, 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.800 you know, things underlined and whatever, and he goes a 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.280 flip flop. Okay, yeah, here, just okay. So here was 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:53.160 my idea. So there's a three dog in the office 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:56.120 park and they adopted and then they all they're all 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.560 caring for it. And I thought that Dwight could have 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:00.680 this relationship to the dog, and my would be really 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:02.640 sad because his dog didn't seem to like him. And 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:04.400 then Jim and Pam would kind of take over care 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.440 of the dog and they would feed the dog, and 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:08.080 then at night there was a question of who would 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.160 take the dog home, and Pam would take it home 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:11.640 one night, and Jim would take it home another night, 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:13.080 and the dog would sort of become almost like a 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.800 surrogate domestic animal for Jim and Pam, and then Roy 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:18.880 would come in and Roy would bond with the dog, 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:20.520 and then the dog would go home. And he laid 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.800 out like an entire story from beginning to end, where 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:27.080 this plot device of a dog just related to every 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.520 single character in the office, and he got to the 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:31.719 end of his like eight minute long pitch and there 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.080 was a beat, and I remember going, well, yeah, I mean, 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:38.440 I feel like we should do your version. That's it 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:43.320 seems like you maybe thought this out. But the amazing 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:45.839 thing to me about stories like that, of which there 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.200 are many, is we never did that episode like that. 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:52.160 Like he had episode after episode broken out and thought 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.920 through just as background, just as like Grist for the 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:58.840 mill of like how he could understand breakdown at a 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:02.160 molecular level and understand the characters and their relationships. We 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:04.000 never did they We never even pitched that out. Like 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:08.920 he had so many ideas like that that never got used. 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:11.680 And when you sort of go back and analyze what 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:13.520 made the show work, to me, I always go back 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:16.640 to that, because it's like he knew everything about every 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:20.520 character before we started doing anything, and so as a result, 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:24.520 there was this incredible lived in field to that office, 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:28.439 this richness and this like this kind of layered feeling 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:30.320 of like these people have always been here and they've 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.600 had three dimensional lives before the cameras ever started rolling, 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:35.360 and that that's just such a rare thing. I mean, 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.520 usually you're scrambling like crazy right early going of a 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:40.960 show to try to figure out who everybody isn't Greg 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:45.640 already knew, yes, And it ties into why Kappus was 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:48.440 such a great choice for that too. So you have 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:52.840 that lived in quality and quapus with this genius idea 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.080 of having us do the thirty minutes of busy work. 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:59.640 We were all there, ready to go seven am, and 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.120 he's like, you guys, just start working, make phone calls, 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:07.679 pretend to hand each other documents, and I'm on the 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:12.480 adding machine and you know, just little moments. He essentially 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:18.440 eliminated the artificial membrane between this is reality and this 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.960 is fiction. He made it a fluid thing. And to 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:25.320 your credit and the other actors in the show, we 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.920 did a thing on that show for years where it 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.559 was like, even if you're in the deep background, you've 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.559 got to beat your desk and it's a pain, right. 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.120 It's like actors, you guys could have all been in 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.000 your trailers, like playing video games or calling your children 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:43.640 or whatever. But like the value of it feeling real 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.280 like that, I mean, these things are so delicate, right, 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:50.360 because like it's it's asking a tremendous amount of the 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:52.280 actors to sit at your desk for as long as 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:55.319 you did, and all of these things that you would 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.480 think of as sort of like a little theatery and 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.920 a little actory and a little kind of like we're 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.480 gonna be in character and we're going to kind of like, 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.000 you know, it's a little embarrassing. It's a little like, 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:08.800 come on, what are we doing it? You know what 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.880 I mean. It's a little like, but if there's a 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.880 theory behind it, if it's not just like let's explore 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.880 the nature of drama or whatever, you see the benefit 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:20.640 of it. And the benefit of it was from the 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:24.280 minute they shot the first frame, it felt like everyone 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:28.520 was really working in that place. Nothing about it felt fake. 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.360 I mean down to the fact that, like the set 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:35.520 design was almost exactly the actual offices that the writers 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.439 worked in in Culver City, Like they just recreated that. 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.240 And so when we were writing in that first season, 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.480 Greg would say, like, go, everyone, spend like half an 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.160 hour and just like mill around the set. We later 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.240 recreated it, but like that was the set where we 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.280 were working, and so we would sit at different desks 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:51.920 and you would sort of go like, oh, like from 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.040 Pam's desk, she can't quite see Angela. That's interesting, like 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:57.760 and then you would say, like here's Creed and Creates 0:12:57.800 --> 0:12:59.960 got his back to the door, so like he never 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.360 knows who's coming into He's always going to be surprised 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:06.360 anytime anyone goes whatever. These tiny observations that you think 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:10.680 of as like is this really anything, But then it 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:15.280 is because because the whole show was about these tiny 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.400 little observations and tiny moments, and when you've actually lived 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.520 inside them as an actor or writer, they become more 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:23.880 meaningful and you understand them at a deeper level. You know, 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.839 when we went to Scranton for the Office Festival that year, 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.240 whatever year that was, even then it was what was 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.200 the season was that for? I think that was for 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.000 the convention. Yeah, it was like season four. But even 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.319 then Greg was like everyone go out, fan out do research, 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.480 and Lee and Gene and I drove around with Jason Kestler, 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:45.640 a writer's assistant, and like took pictures and like broke 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.040 down the names of restaurants and there was a condo 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:49.720 development and I took a bunch of pictures and I 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.200 was like, I think this is Michael's condo. Was hadn't 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.160 been in season two, but I was like, this is 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.720 the condo development, and like, so I took different angles 0:13:57.720 --> 0:13:59.760 of like what it looked like down the road and stuff, 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.600 and we handed them to Gallenberg and Michael Gallenberg as 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.600 the production designer, and like we were still that intent 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.920 at that point in like making sure we got it right, 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.960 even if it even if no one never if the 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.040 ideal is even if you've never been to Scranton and 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:15.760 you never go to Scranton, you should still feel like 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.120 you've been to Scranton. Like that's how that's how intense 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:41.680 it was. So the first season we make the first 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:46.000 season and other than the pilot, none of the stories 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.640 are related to the to the British show. But people 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.320 still are like, boo, we know we were right. This 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.280 was bad, bad idea, and they into this day you'll 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:56.520 find people who say, like they stuck to the British 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.160 scripts for the first season, which we didn't, but no 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.600 one remembers that. I remember the pilot was roughly the 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:05.440 British pilot. Yeah, I know, it's uh. I felt from 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.479 the moment of diversity Day that what we were attempting 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:13.800 to do was something really special. Yeah, And I was like, man, 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:17.400 if people give this a chance. Yeah, I know. It's 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:21.480 so funny, right because like the history of television has 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.520 the same story repeated over and over and over again, 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.120 and that story is the pilot aired and it was 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.680 the lowest rated pilot in the history of LAHLA. It's 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.640 true of Seinfeld. Jerry Seinfeld has a letter has like 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:37.520 the ratings for the testing. I think Cheers was the 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:41.080 lowest rated pilot that NBC had ever aired to that point. 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:44.360 The office was like a disaster in the early going. 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:46.160 Another thing, by the way, another thing Greg did that 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.000 it's amazing that I don't know if he has ever 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.600 talked about. He told NBC when they tested the show. 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:53.360 He was like, this is going to test terribly and 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:55.480 you have to ignore it. He was like that it's 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:57.880 it's a mockumentary that people aren't used to it. It's 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.840 washed out color and fluorescent lighting. The boss is unlikable. 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.920 It's going to test terribly and you have to ignore it. 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:10.720 And then it tested terribly and they didn't quite ignore it, 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:14.400 but he had primed them to look at the results 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:18.360 in a different way. And it's very gutty thing to 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.600 do to pre tell the network that the thing they've 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.640 spent millions of dollars on is going to bomb? Well. 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.320 Kevin Riley told the story that there are rooms. There 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:31.000 are different rooms as they're being tested, and they go 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:34.200 in and they examine and it's like bad, we think 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.800 it's bad. We think bad bad. And he got to 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:40.760 the last room, which he said, we're all the interns 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:46.520 and assistance and they were like this is awesome. And 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:50.880 he was like, okay, okay, now we've got something here. 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.000 And he basically took the people who didn't really count, 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.120 but he was like, yeah, this is going to catch on. 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.800 And I don't know Kevin, if Kevin ever had this thought, 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:05.880 but my thought was always that we were not fairly 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:11.760 being represented because as my Space was happening, social media 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.920 was beginning to happen, and you were hearing about these 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:19.480 fanatical fans some of the online forums, and you realized 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.560 how many college kids were watching. Well, college kids don't 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.200 have Nielsen Box. They're not weighing in on the fact 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:30.520 that they're watching in their dorms or and so for me, 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.359 it was always like, yeah, but they got to know 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.720 that more people are consumed. I'm not sure they did well. 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.040 I mean, you know, that's the thing is like, of course, 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.840 like that the rating systems are so much better now, 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.399 but they're still even now, they're crude and like in 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.360 two thousand four, forget it like that, you know, there 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.639 was no way for anyone to to know or to 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.480 judge how many people are actually watching anything. It was 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.800 a really rough measurement. And and just like it's some 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:01.119 so retroactively grateful that they didn't cancel the show because 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.040 it's clear. I mean, look now, just now, it's it's 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:09.200 like the most popular show on Netflix today. Um Lee 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.480 told me about there were a couple of exercises that 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:15.240 Greg would do in the writer's room, and he mentioned 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:19.560 to me about the He called it unlikely duos, basically 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.480 taking he would he wrote everyone's name down on cards, 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:24.760 and then he grabbed two at random and would send 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.600 us off and go go break some you know, uh 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:31.840 Stanley Creed stories, you know, go break some whatever. And yeah, 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.280 and we did that very frequently. He did that once 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:36.080 a week. I always thought there was a little bit 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.280 it would It seemed to be something he did when 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:43.959 he was getting annoyed by us and our generale confidence. 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.119 But also it didn't feel like busy work. It felt 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.639 like Oh, it's interesting, Like, yeah, right, what happens if 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:53.359 Creed and Stanley or in the story or whatever. Um Creed, 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:55.719 who was one inch away from just being written off 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.600 the show? I know, how did you decide who was 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:03.359 gonna be gone? Devon or Creed? So um my, this 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.200 is my memory of this, and Greg would remember maybe 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.879 more accurately. But we broke the episode where it was 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.639 Halloween someone was getting fired, right, and it was like, 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:14.439 all right, it's either Devon or Creed because those are 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:18.560 the two people that hadn't talked yet. And the original 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:22.639 idea was it was Creed. Then we broke the episode, 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:27.199 and the Greg sort of brilliant investigation of Michael Scott's 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:31.160 psychology was instead of ripping the bandit off and doing 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:34.840 a responsible management thing, he tries to fire someone and 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:36.480 then gets talked out of it and then fires the 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.399 other person. And it was a coin flip. It was 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:42.719 honestly like Creed or Devon, who knows? And then he 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:44.639 was like, well, I don't even know if there was 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:46.760 a reason, but he switched it so that he fires 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:49.000 Creed and then Creed talks him out of it. And 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:53.080 I was on set with fig shooting the episode where 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.800 Michael buys a condo, and Fig was going to direct 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:59.560 that Halloween episode. So the episode that Greg wrote, which 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:04.760 is wonderful, hasn't it? Probably a six page scene more. 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:06.159 Michaels like, I'm sorry, I have to let you go, 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:08.280 and Creed talks him out of it, and we read 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.040 it on that We were at the location for Michael's 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:14.119 condo and we read the script and I was like, 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.040 oh my god, this is so funny. And I went 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:17.359 to feed it. I was like, did you read this? 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:19.800 It's so funny. He goes like, yeah, it is really funny. 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:24.879 Can Creed act? It's like, I have no idea. I 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:27.160 don't think I've ever heard him talk, but like, let's 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.760 roll the dice and then you know, he's amazing. So 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:32.239 it was, but it was literally in my memory at 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:34.480 one point it was Heat fires Creed and another point 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:36.639 it was he fires Deevan, and it just ended up 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:38.320 the way it ended up. But I don't think there 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:40.240 was any reason for it. I think it was. I 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.480 think it was a crazy I think maybe Greg liked 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.000 the real story, which we all knew by then. The 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:47.320 Creed was the actual Creed Bratton. It would have been 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:50.520 in the grassroots and anything. So maybe that had some 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:54.960 effect or something, but yeah, it was random chance. That's 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:59.920 so crazy. Um. Going back to the unlikely duos thing 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:03.919 for a second, I was talking to Kate Flannery about 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:11.359 Christmas party and Meredith flashing Michael, but then also having 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:14.600 this tender moment with him after he runs over her 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:18.480 with his car. I don't think those came from unlikely duos. 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.480 Although Michael hits someone with his car was an early pitch. 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:23.200 I don't remember you bushed it, but that that card 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:24.960 was up on the on the board for a while 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.080 before we did it. But the thing where Meredith flashes 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:32.000 him was nothing more than like the premise of that episode, 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:35.280 which I wrote, was Michael has an image in his 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:37.240 head of what a good party is, and a good 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:39.240 party is like a playboy mansion, and he says that 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.920 in the episode. He's like, it's playboy mansion. It's people 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.159 with heads, lamb shades on their heads. He has a 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.000 very very old timey, like like late seventies, early eighties 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:52.080 kind of idea of what like a crazy party. Yeah, 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:55.359 it's just it's it's people being drunk and and lambshades 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:58.200 on heads and stuff. Like that. And so he does 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.320