1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Early cars were mostly joisting vehicles. 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 2: I heard, are you bringing the jousting vehicle? 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: I am, Yeah. We're going to charge at each other 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: at ten miles an hour. It's going to be a wild. 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 2: We're going to drive to Sidcup, but we are also 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 2: going to joust. 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: Ye when we get there after ice cream. 8 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 3: That is super local English humor. But you know you 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 3: just got to get on board with it. Really, Hello, 10 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 3: I'm mini driver. I've always loved Proust's questionnaire. It was 11 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 3: originally in nineteenth century parlor game where players would ask 12 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 3: each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing. 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: The other player's true nature. 14 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 3: In asking different people the same set of questions, you 15 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 3: can make observations about which truths appear to be universal. 16 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 3: And it made me wonder, what if these questions were 17 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 3: just the jumping off point, what greater depths would be 18 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 3: revealed if I asked these quesses as conversation starters. So 19 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 3: I adapted Prue's questionnaire and I wrote my own seven 20 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 3: questions that I personally think are pertinent to a person's story. 21 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 3: They are when and where were you happiest? What is 22 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 3: the quality you like least about yourself? What relationship, real 23 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 3: or fictionalized, defines love for you? What question would you 24 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 3: most like answered? What person, place, or experience has shaped 25 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 3: you the most? What would be your last meal? And 26 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 3: can you tell me something in your life that's grown 27 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 3: out of a personal disaster? And I've gathered a group 28 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 3: of really remarkable people, ones that I am honored and 29 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 3: humbled to have had the chance to engage with. You 30 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 3: may not hear their answers to all seven of these questions. 31 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 3: We've whittled it down to which questions felt closest to 32 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 3: their experience or the most surprising, or created the most 33 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 3: fertile ground to connect. My guest today is the brilliant 34 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 3: and gifted musician Gary Lightbody. Gary is the lead singer 35 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 3: of the band Snow Patrol, amongst other things. And you 36 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 3: may be interested to note that I am also in 37 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 3: a band with Gary called Tired Pony, And you can 38 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 3: check out the record that we made on the old 39 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 3: music streamers if you're so inclined. Gary is a very 40 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 3: good friend of mine. So this chat was like most 41 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 3: of the ones we have. It was deep and rambling 42 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 3: and full of questions and the search for answers and 43 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 3: quite a lot of screeching laughter. Gary met the death 44 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,399 Speaker 3: of his dad with anomenous that spread, and I think 45 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 3: it's okay to say was pretty all consuming for a minute. 46 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: But like all great people and artists who remain interested 47 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 3: in pain, he somehow turned that non feeling into feeling 48 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 3: and wrote an extraordinary and elegiic album, which came out 49 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 3: last September and is Snow Patrol's eighth studio album, entitled 50 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 3: The Forest is the Path. 51 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:04,119 Speaker 2: And it is absolutely beautiful. Where and when were you happiest? 52 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to immediately talk about Johnny and Nathan because 53 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: I could look back in my life and find moments 54 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: of happiness, of course I can, but I think the 55 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: most recent one is the most relevant one for me. Anyway. 56 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: It still feels like it's there's an energy or power 57 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: emanating from it. And that was when we were making 58 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: the album. And I'm not just saying that just because 59 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: we've got an album coming out, but genuinely, it was 60 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: a long road. We tried to make it last year 61 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: and it didn't work out, and it's always kind of 62 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: heartbreaking when you get to the end of a project 63 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: you realize you haven't got it. You have to kind 64 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: of regroup. But then we met Fraser T. Smith and 65 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: the four of us went into his studio in January 66 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: of this year, and that process was just one of 67 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: the most extraordinary times in the studio that we've ever had. 68 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: Is it because it was hard and there was heartbreaking 69 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 3: about the not making it last year? 70 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 2: Was it that? 71 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 3: Or was there some sort of new complicity because a 72 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 3: phrase that what was it? Do you think that engendered 73 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 3: such happiness? 74 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: It's a very very good point, because perhaps without the contrast, 75 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: it may not have been quite as starkly wonderful, if 76 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: that's even a phrase. Frankly, it could have been comparative. 77 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: You know, for me it still stands alone as a 78 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: sustained period of happiness in my life. 79 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 2: How do you recognize happiness? 80 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: I think for me it's because I have run so anxious. 81 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: When I notice how long it's been since I've been anxious, 82 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: I started to realize that happiness has taken its place 83 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: or something contentment, perhaps in a sort of a less 84 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: high stakes kind of version of happiness. But because happiness 85 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: can now be ebb and flow, and it can even 86 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: turn to sadness pretty quickly, but contentment there is a 87 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: flow to that a continuum to that. If you catch 88 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: the right view or a surfer you catch the right way, 89 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: you can write on that for a long time. And 90 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: it felt like every day we were coming in excited 91 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: to be in the studio, and Nathan and Johnny Arrow 92 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: was excited to be together. But it felt like every 93 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: time they picked up an instrument, something magical happened and 94 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: I was there to witness it, which doesn't always happen 95 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: on every album as well. People might think that when 96 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: a band makes an album, they're in the studio the 97 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: whole time, every day, but that's not necessarily what happens 98 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: is sometimes life happens and you've got to be somewhere else, 99 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 1: and when you are actually in the studio, it's just 100 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: to play your parts. But with this period of five 101 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: weeks with Fraser, the four of us, we were there 102 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: every day for each other, even if we weren't playing. 103 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: There's days that I didn't play anything, but I was 104 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: there to witness Nathan and and Johnny playing pianos and 105 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: guitars and singing, and it felt very very special and 106 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: at the end, and this is another indicator I think 107 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: the last day, I said to Nathan and Johnny I'm 108 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: really sad that this is finishing. Normally you're excited to 109 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: go on tour, but on the last day I said, 110 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: I'm really sad that this is finished, that this is over, 111 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: and both Nathan and Johnny said you feel the same way. 112 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: So that feels like a significant period of happiness that 113 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: I won't forget. 114 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 3: Wow, God, I think that sustained anything is impossible anyway. 115 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 3: I think it's why I like this question is even 116 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 3: though some people interestingly bulk at the idea you know 117 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 3: that happiness is an endgame, it's not really what the 118 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 3: question is. It's really what is a snapshot of a 119 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 3: moment of joy? Because it's all moments, right, Even though 120 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 3: things like anxiety feel like they are permanent, there actually 121 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 3: is no status even within that, so it's constantly shifting 122 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 3: and changing. I love that snapshot of you guys going 123 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 3: into the studio and of it not just being a 124 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 3: day that we were happy, but every day we showed 125 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 3: up to create was amazing. 126 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, they will quote by the Buddha there is no 127 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: path to happiness. Happiness is the path, and it's sort 128 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: of referenced in the album title as well. The forest 129 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: is the path. It's okay to be lost. And I 130 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: was so afraid to be lost in my life or 131 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: focused on the destination and not the journey. And you know, 132 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: I think that happiness or that state of happiness only 133 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: really occurs whenever you let go of the destination. For me, anyway, 134 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: I couldn't agree. 135 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 2: With you more. 136 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 3: There's some version when I think about achieving happiness, which 137 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 3: sounds a bit like an oxymoron, and I might be 138 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,679 Speaker 3: the more on them. I think you've got to set 139 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 3: the coordinates for happiness, like you set those coordinates and 140 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 3: then you have to let you have to let it 141 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 3: go or whatever it is. You have to set those 142 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 3: coordinates and then let it go and be in that 143 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 3: journey towards it. And I often get stuck by halfway 144 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 3: through the journey, or if I don't know, if I'm 145 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 3: halfway through the journey, I'm like, well, it just hasn't 146 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 3: happened yet or arrived yet, and I'm not there. I'm 147 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 3: so annoyed I'm not there. And someone brilliant called Esther 148 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 3: Hicks said. 149 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: Once she was like, you know, when you're in a. 150 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 3: Car journey from like Los Angeles to San Francisco, when 151 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 3: you get halfway you know, like Monterey or Big sur 152 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 3: You don't just get pissed off that you're not in 153 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 3: San Francisco. 154 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: You turn around and go home. 155 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: Idiots, you carry on. 156 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,719 Speaker 3: And I think about that a lot, like set your 157 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 3: coordinates and then get on the bus or the train 158 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 3: or the plane or the jousting car and just get 159 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 3: on with it. 160 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, I love that accord. And it's also there's 161 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: a certain amount of detachment from those corders once they're 162 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: set exactly exactly, And I think that I was always like, 163 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: you know, if I take my eye off there where 164 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: I'm going, then I'll get lost and not realizing it's 165 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: okay to be lost. 166 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's okay to be lost. What question would you 167 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 2: most like answered. 168 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: Well, I missed the opportunity to tell my dad quite 169 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: a lot of things. By the time I realized I'd 170 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: run out of time to talk to him, he was 171 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: well and to advance dementia. So I would like to 172 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: know if there is an after for us, and if 173 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: he's there, and if I'll get to meet him again 174 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: and have those conversations. 175 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would like that too. By the way, I 176 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 3: would like to know that do you ever feel and 177 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 3: I know that it's more recent for you. And I 178 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 3: understand the process of grief is wayward and personal and 179 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 3: it is not subject to any rules whatsoever as far 180 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 3: as I've experienced. But if it's not too personal, do 181 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 3: you have conversations with him? I know that a huge 182 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 3: amount of this beautiful album is voicing feelings and speaking 183 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 3: things and shouting things out to your dad and at 184 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 3: yourself and ruminating, and it is a beautiful meditation on 185 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 3: all of those things. But do you ever converse with him, 186 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 3: even if you can't hear what he says back. 187 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: The answer to that is no, not really, I'm afraid too. Hmm. 188 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I understand that, I really do. But like we 189 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 3: said before, maybe it's coordinatece. Maybe that is something that 190 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 3: you really do live the answer to you get to 191 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 3: that place. I can't, for the longest time talk to 192 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 3: my mother in my heart or my head. 193 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 2: And now I'm. 194 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 3: Essentially writing a book that begins with a conversation I 195 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 3: had with her after she died. So I think there's 196 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 3: a journey with that. 197 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 2: I really do, for sure. 198 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: There's a book of mind coming out that is about Yeah, 199 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: but writing it done is for me. It's like it's 200 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: not perhaps it is having a conversation with them, but 201 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: it did not take place out loud. Yeah, and I 202 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: think that's where I fell downe actually making the signed 203 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: the sound words are. 204 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: We've talked about this before. 205 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 3: When your parent is dead and there are things that 206 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 3: you didn't say or that they didn't say to you, 207 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 3: there is simply no way of having the conversation which 208 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 3: we would like to have, which is with them sitting 209 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 3: opposite us, where we get to everything and then they 210 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 3: get say everything to us. But as you and I 211 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 3: both exist in this space on the other side of 212 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 3: our parent is dead, now you know, what do we 213 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 3: do with those questions? 214 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 2: In the absence of the answers? What do we do? 215 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 3: And I think you're doing exactly the most beautiful, amazing 216 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 3: thing a person could do, which is that you're using 217 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 3: it as fuel to make something that you offer up 218 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 3: to people that they will love and enjoy and will 219 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 3: probably bring them enormous comfort. 220 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: Thank you, and you're doing the same. I cannot wait 221 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: to read your book. Your first book was an absolute 222 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: triumph and one of my favorite books for the last 223 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: ten years. As I've told you, thank you y. The 224 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: thing that I think we can do with these questions 225 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: is ask each other. Yeah, which we do, And I'm 226 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: very lucky to have people like that in our lives, 227 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: to have incredible conversations with. I know you have lots 228 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: of great people in your life and can keep them alive, 229 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: keep their energy in our lives. I don't know what 230 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: I would do without that. 231 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right. 232 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 3: I think it's also asking questions without the expectation of 233 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 3: an answer. I think that should be called something else. Yeah, 234 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 3: it shouldn't be called a question. 235 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? 236 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,719 Speaker 3: There should be another word for the things that you 237 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 3: want from your dead parents once they're dead. There should 238 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 3: be another way of expressing that. But you're right, talking 239 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 3: to each other does help. 240 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right. There's perhaps no answers, but 241 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: the answer is in the feeling seen. I think, Yeah, 242 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: you know, I don't expect anyone to fix the things 243 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: in my life, just that feeling of being seen. I 244 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: don't want to offer anybody any advice that they don't 245 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: ask for. Any advice I ever give is given with 246 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: the caveat. Please, for God's sake, ignore this. 247 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 2: Ignore what I'm back to say. But you. 248 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: Don't have lost two. 249 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 3: Can you tell me what person, place, or experience most 250 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 3: altered your life, and. 251 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: Back to where I started, I think this conversation. But 252 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: Johnny and Nathan, I think have been the two people 253 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: that have altered my life the most, two people that 254 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: I've loved being around the most and also learned the 255 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: most from and do constantly. 256 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 2: Did you guys meet in Scotland. 257 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: No, Nathan's been in the band since two thousand and 258 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: two and Johnny's been with us from two thousand and nine. 259 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: But it's so interesting we've had conversations like this before, 260 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: the three of us, where we're like, those times don't 261 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: mean anything. It's like we always knew each other. We 262 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: just did. We always knew each other. There was no time. 263 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: I can't think of a time that I didn't know them. 264 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: We've been through a lot, you know, over the years together, 265 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: and there's been times where we weren't going great with 266 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: the band, great interpersonally, and we got through all those 267 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: things with some amounts of grace actually, and I feel 268 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: very proud of how we've sort of grown together and 269 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: become this trio that we are now. Obviously with great 270 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: love and respect and reverence to everyone that has been 271 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: in the band as well, especially Johnny Quinn and Paul 272 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: Wilson who most recently left the band, but with our 273 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: admiration and love and joy for everything that they do 274 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: in the future. But when that happens, when people leave, 275 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: you have to decide whether you want to continue. A 276 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: question was already answered. It was like, do we want 277 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: to keep going? Yes, of course, but it's how do 278 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: we keep going? That's that's the more difficult question to answer, 279 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: because we want to also make the most important record 280 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: of your life. Every time you make a record or 281 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: else why And we just had this strong, strong feeling 282 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: that in the answering of the hearty we continue was 283 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: the answer to the importance of the record, and so well, 284 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: this is how we continue. We put everything that we 285 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: have into this record, just like we've always done. So 286 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: the people I'm going to go with Johnny and Nathan. 287 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: Final answer, final answer, my final answer. I mean, I 288 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: know it's not really part of the question. It's kind 289 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: of like an either or thing, but Banger my hometown, 290 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: m it is really important to me. I love that 291 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: place so much. 292 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 3: Gary lived on Ocean Boulevard in Santa Monica for a 293 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 3: long time and I loved him being just down the road. 294 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: It really is just sort of. 295 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 3: How you'd imagine a California dream of, just like looking 296 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 3: at him with the Pacific Ocean and the swinging palm 297 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 3: trees and the sunshine and the Art Deco buildings in 298 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 3: Santa Monica and making music and getting acupuncture and hanging out. 299 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 3: And then Gary moved back to Bangor And I've got 300 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 3: to say, I've never heard a person eulogize about a 301 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 3: place where I know for a fact that it is 302 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 3: cold and it rains a lot, and yet Gary talks 303 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 3: about bang of the way that most people talk about California. 304 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,959 Speaker 3: And Gary lived in California, which always makes me really happy. 305 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,719 Speaker 3: And know that you love where you're from, and I 306 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 3: can't wait to visit you there. I can't believe I've 307 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 3: never been there, but I'll come. 308 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, please do come over Beplaslack is right on my 309 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: doorstep and Forrest is right on my doorstep on one side. 310 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: So I've got the sea on one side of forest 311 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: on the other. And every time I walk in the forest, 312 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: I feel renewed. I don't feel that everywhere, but I'm 313 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: so glad to have refound my home. Yeah, you know, 314 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 1: like that quote. Home is not where we are born. 315 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: Home is where all our attempts to escape cease. Sorry, 316 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: And you know it's funny because it is where I 317 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: was born, and yet I tried to escape, And what 318 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: happened is I was only temporarily escaping. What I was really, 319 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: what I was really waiting for, was to come back 320 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: and realize that this was where I was supposed to 321 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: be all along. 322 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 2: What would be your last meal? 323 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: Well, I can keep it in banger as everybody that 324 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: I knew, you had to set meal on a certain night. 325 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 326 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 2: You would have on Monday with sausages. Tuesday was Shepherd's Park. 327 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: Wednesday Shepherd's Power. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, I got most 328 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: excited about spaghetti Bolonnes night. 329 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 3: But that's that spaghetti bolonnaise, Like that's quite sort of Mediterranean, 330 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 3: of like your mom or dad? 331 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 2: Who have cooked it? 332 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: Was my mom? Yeah? My dad did not so much, 333 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: but he did make greats Sudar breads as we call him. Yeah, 334 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: he would make those of a Sunday every night and again, 335 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: so I'd have that too. 336 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 3: Most importantly, what night was spaghetti Bolonnes? Was it Wednesday? 337 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: No? I think it was Thursday, but it's the meal itself. 338 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: I make a spaghetti bolonees night, and I'll make it 339 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: for my mom and my sister and my niece, and 340 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: my mum will makes spaghetti malonnaise. I'm able to contribute 341 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: to the passing of the spaghetti bawl nace. So we 342 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: don't have a family heirloom, but we have. 343 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 2: Thursday. 344 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 3: That's a good legacy. Oh, I love that. Oh I 345 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 3: make a mean spaghetti bolonnaise. I'm going to make you 346 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 3: spagetti borones next time. 347 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: Then well, I will return that. This is the continuation 348 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: the ceremonial spaghetti ballnas. 349 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 3: Okay, did you ever have When I was younger, I 350 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 3: went to someone's house. I'm going to they can remain nameless, 351 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 3: but they put baked beans in the spaghetti polonnaise. What 352 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 3: And I couldn't eat it? And I remember the mother 353 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 3: looking at me, going why aren't you eating it? And 354 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 3: I was like, I'm not hungry, and she's like, he 355 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 3: said that you were hungry before. Why aren't you eating 356 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 3: the spaghetti bolonnaise? And she kept pushing me until I 357 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 3: eventually went because there's beans in it, and she was 358 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 3: like she of course there's beans spaghetti bollidais, at which 359 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 3: point I was like, I'm in a mad house. I 360 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 3: need to just get out of here as soon as possible. 361 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 3: But I was only like seven, so I'm interested if 362 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 3: anyone's ever come across that. 363 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: I've never heard of beans in a spaghetti. 364 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 3: B I'm really glad that will die with her. 365 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 2: So she won't be listening. 366 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 3: Okay, in your life, can you tell me about something 367 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 3: that has grown out of a personal disaster and you're 368 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 3: not allowed to say all. 369 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: Of it. 370 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 2: Being borned? 371 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: God, I hope that people don't think that I'm sort 372 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: of trying to like just tie everything to the new album. 373 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: I'm really not. We don't have to talk about the 374 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: album itself, but yeah, passing. There was a year where 375 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: I was numb, completely numb, and then a year almost 376 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: to the day, I read this roomy poem and it 377 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: just unlocked everything and I just burst into tears, uncontrollable, 378 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: like Charlie Brian shooting out of the eye tears. And 379 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: then the next day the numbness had lifted and I 380 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: started writing in earnest and I wrote a song about 381 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: my dad, obviously perhaps, But then the second song I 382 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: wrote was a song called These Lies, which is actually 383 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: on the new album. The first song appeared by my dad. 384 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: It was the poem really, and then I put music 385 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: to it, but it sort of flowed out of the pen. 386 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: Was mean, you know yourself. There's days when you're standing 387 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: at a blank page and nothing comes, and then in 388 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: other days when it's almost as if you're not you 389 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: have no control of the pen. It's just automatic writing, 390 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: and I'm just trying to stay out of the way 391 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: of it, like I have the pen attached to the 392 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: page and the words will appear. 393 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 2: Wow. 394 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: Wait. 395 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 2: The roomy quote is there is a field. 396 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: There is a field out there beyond all right doing 397 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 1: and wrongdoing. I'll meet you there. That's right. That was 398 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: the key that the dawn broke. 399 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 3: I remember after one of our walks, because Gary and 400 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,479 Speaker 3: I go on really long walks together and talk about things. 401 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 3: I wrote that quote down and it's on my desk 402 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 3: in England where I write, like where I'm writing my book, 403 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 3: and I have it there. I've also got like a 404 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 3: dollar sign drawn on a person. I've got to make 405 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 3: some money, I've got to keep a fucking ship going. 406 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 3: But then I've also got that roomy quote that I 407 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 3: wrote down when I came back from our walk, and 408 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 3: I love it so much. And I also love the 409 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 3: fact that it's next to my dollar sign, which always 410 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 3: makes me feel like this world is made up of 411 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 3: so much that is practical, that we're forced to be 412 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 3: practical about things, but it also what exists is this 413 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 3: beautiful poetry that is out beyond all of it, and 414 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 3: it's okay. It's okay that all that fucking shit lives 415 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 3: alongside all of that grace and beauty. It is okay 416 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 3: because I felt really sheepish when I put it next 417 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 3: to the dollar sign, and now I actually love it 418 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 3: and it makes me feel like, really, what radical. 419 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 2: Humaning looks like. 420 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 3: It's like it's spinach in your teeth and dollar signs 421 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 3: that you need to be reminded of, and it's finally 422 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 3: being able to cry over your dead dad, and it's 423 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 3: about making something beautiful that from that. Like, I know 424 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 3: how agonizing it is to lose a parent, and this 425 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 3: record is just a testament to so much love and 426 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 3: light that he had to have had a hand in 427 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 3: making you. 428 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 2: So I don't know, Gary, I'm so proud of this 429 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 2: record for you. 430 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 3: I hope that it was really healing, and I bet 431 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 3: you he can hear it, you know. 432 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: Thanks Mary, Babe. 433 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 3: Always always I'll take a picture of my dollar sign 434 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 3: and the roomy quote and then you can chuckle or 435 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 3: whenever you're thinking about that I'm taking anything seriously whatsoever 436 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 3: or getting anything done. 437 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: I love it. I love those two together. It's brilliant. 438 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 3: Tarn and love you so much, and thank you so 439 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 3: much for this. Really, your fans are going to love 440 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 3: it anyway. 441 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 2: I'm really grateful. 442 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 3: Mini Questions is hosted and written by Me Mini Driver, 443 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 3: executive produced by Me and Aaron Kaufman, with production support 444 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 3: from Jennifer Bassett, Zoe Denkler, and Ali Perry. 445 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 2: The theme music is also by Me and additional music 446 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 2: by Aaron Kaufman. 447 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 3: Special thanks to Jim Nikolay Addison, O'Day, Henry Driver, Lisa Castella, a, 448 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 3: Nick Oppenheim, A, Nick Muller and Annette wolf A, WKPR, 449 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 3: Will Pearson, Nikki Ito, Morgan, Lavoie and Mangesh had Ticke 450 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 3: Adore