WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 43 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.680 Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.400 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.600 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.440 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:15.960 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:17.919 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.119 there's gotta be nothing new here for you, but you 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:27.360 can make your own decisions. Welcome to it could happen 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:31.360 here a podcast that, for the first time ever, is 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:33.720 being recorded on an earth that I no longer have 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:37.920 to share with that fascist rap baster chinzawabe. And with 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:42.720 with me, with me to celebrate this occasion is Garrison Davis. Hi, Hello, 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:47.640 and James, have have we actually have we like introduced you? 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:50.680 Introduced you? Yet I didn't think so. No, I just 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.600 pop up talking about three D printed guns and people 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:58.440 who hate butterflies. Yeah, this is this is truly a 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:04.000 dark day for democracy. I am saddened by the horrible 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:08.600 loss of a great leader, UM, A hero to feminism 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:13.800 and women UM, and I guess a hero to those 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:18.880 who defend war crimes. So I guess before heard before 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:21.039 before Wefore we get into one of the funniest things 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.720 that has happened in maybe twenty years. Um, you do 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:25.800 you want to like talk about who you are? Because 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.279 you are now one of us and I'm very excited 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:32.040 about it. Yeah, I'm wanted. Yeah, I'm now a podcast. Yeah. 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:36.559 Um so who I am? I am a journalist, I guess, 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:41.360 uh and a historian and I wrote a book about 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.200 the first week of the Spanish Civil War. And my 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.720 PhD is in the history of international anti fascism, building 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:53.200 international anti fascist alliances through physical culture, which is very nerdy, 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.400 but yeah, I love that stuff with else I'm British 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:00.480 if that had not been made abundantly clear but accent. 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.920 And I live in southern California, which means this is 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:11.560 a Now this episode is a majority Commonwealth episode. Really exciting. 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.240 We made it. Yeah, well we do in the national 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.520 anthem in a minute here and we'll just stand up. 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:25.600 Uh so, ex Prime Minister kind of he's not around anymore, 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:30.960 is he? No? He is dead as fuck? So all 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:32.920 right we should I guess I guess we should explain 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:37.040 who Shenzo Abe is. Yeah. Okay, if if you want 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.600 a really really long account of what the Japanese Liberal 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:44.560 Democratic Party is because they are some of the worst 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:51.919 people who've ever existed democratic How can this be? So? 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:54.919 The very short version of this is that the Liberal 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:58.200 Democratic Party is a party that was founded by Nobusuke Kishi, 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.000 who is one of history's worst war crimin les person 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.760 like personally responsible for enslaving hundreds of thousands of people 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:07.400 in China. Uh. He's the guy who basically he's the 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:08.799 guy who was in charge of the economy of the 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:12.320 fascist war machine, like like in Japan Jua War two. 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.560 He was the guy who ran like the sort of 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:21.639 fascist puppet state called Manchuqua that was run by Japan 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:25.720 after they conquered it. Uh. Real war criminal also just 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:29.960 like personally raped a like extremely large number of people. 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:32.560 I think that, like I was almost never discussed when 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:37.400 people talk about him, almost like like a shockingly high 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:42.480 white number. Yeah. It's of sex crimes. It's wild. Yeah. 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.440 And he's also mean. He's involved with the Japanese military 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:48.040 sex slave program, which he referred to as comfort women. 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.720 And I refused to call the comfort women because that 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:55.120 is a fucking horrifying euphemism for again, a program of 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.800 military sex slavery. Uh. He also was one of the 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.760 people who signed off on Unit seven thirty one, which 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:04.280 was Japan's chemical weapons testing unit where they fucking like 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:10.800 purposely infested, in facted and tested chemical weapons on prisoners. Uh. Yeah, 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.200 he's one of the worst people ever. And then he 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:15.280 got a bunch of CIA backing and so backing from 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.320 the Aukuza because the CIA is working with the Yakuza 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:22.080 on early uh fifty Japan. And she's able basically to 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:26.400 force all of the other conservative like people to join 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:28.960 his party, and the sort of the merger of the 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.239 of the Liberal Party, Liberal Party and the Democratic Party 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.920 is now the Liberal Democratic Party. This is Keishi's party. 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.359 He founded it. Uh, he drags everyone else into it. 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.960 He does an immense amount of corruption. He tries to 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:45.200 bring fascism back. He narrowly fails. Shinzo Abe is his grandson. Uh. 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.679 The LDP Liberal Democratic Party, Yeah has Yeah, it sucks. 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.760 It's like like the way that I've been thinking about, 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:53.240 like how do you explain this to people who don't 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.039 who don't have like a background in like Japanese like 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:58.880 war crime stuff. Is like imagine if like one of 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.600 Hitler's generals had like survived World War Two and then 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.880 the CIA made him made him the Prime Minister of Germany, 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:10.320 and then and he got more fascist because people were 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:12.640 saying mean things about his grandpa. He's like, oh, I 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.000 don't like that they're calling him bad names. I'm going 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.320 to get more fascist down. So, like ill Be, Abbe himself, 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.440 he's carried he's been carrying out a lot of the 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.280 same things that that she was trying to do. Kishi 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:27.360 was trying to sort of restore the sort of full 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:30.240 fascist power of the police. Abe has been doing a 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.880 whole bunch of shifts of centralizing power in the executive 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.760 and spanning the police's power to just arrest whoever the 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.200 funk they want. Um. So, one of one of the 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.680 other things about Japan is that like legally in their 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:45.600 constitution they can't go to war. And like both Kishi 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.040 and Abbe like this is like they're big fucking things 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:49.920 that they want. They want to fully rearm Japan and 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.119 they want Japan be able to go to war because 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.599 they want to do the fucking empire again. And you know, 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.880 so this has led. Yeah, Abe has been doing fat um. 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:03.480 He also the thing he's probably most famous for in 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.360 terms of like the reasons people think he's bad because 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:10.599 he is he's like just actually a monster. Is he's 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:15.120 just like a like unfathomable degree of war crime denial, 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.200 like he he pulled. So Japan in the nineties had 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:22.360 admitted that they fucking kidnapped and enslaved like an enormous 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.599 number of people from of people from Korea, people from China. 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:27.880 I think they also did. They did in the Philippines 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:30.920 and Indonesia too, although there's less sort of coverage of that, 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:33.400 and like tourn them into military sex slaves, did things 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:39.239 to them that are like, I fucking unspeakable. Um. And 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:41.280 so the Japanese government in the nineties had admitted they 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.599 did this and apologized for it, and Abe was like, no, 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.880 funk that that's that's wrong. He's also a part of 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:51.040 this group called Niponka Guy, which is like a fascist group. 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:53.400 And okay, so this this is, this is according to 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:57.440 a US congressional report, what they believe quote Japan should 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:00.000 be applauded for liberating must of East Asia from western 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.960 colonial powers, that the ninety eight Tokyo War crivate stripe 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.320 unials were illegitimate, and that the killings by Japanese troops 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:10.960 through the nineteen thirties seven Nunjing massacre were exaggerated or fabricated. 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:14.440 Oh boy. They also openly yeah yeah, yeah, they also 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.920 saw the nudging denialists. They're they're they're sex slave denialists. 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.240 They openly call for the restoration of the monarchy and 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:25.640 the institution of Shinto as a state religion. Umb like 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:30.200 a like has continuously said that the sex slave like 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:33.960 did it were like, did were there voluntarily? Does another 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:37.960 thing that but but but but Hillary Clinton just tweeted 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:40.840 that preg Minister was a champion of democracy and a 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.680 firm believer that new economy, society, country can achieve its 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.200 full potential if you leave women behind. What you know, 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.320 she to be fair, to be fair, to be fair, 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.400 both abbe and nobody. She did, in fact believe in 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:59.240 using women to fuel the economy, just not in that way. 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.000 He also, there's there's neverthing that so probably these most 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.040 like famous most controversial thing was. So there's the shrine 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:09.720 called the um Yasukuni Shrine, which is is the shrine 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:12.320 is dedicated to soldiers who like died serving the Japanese 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:16.480 emperor and in in this so there's this thing called 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:18.480 the Book of souls that has like lists of names 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:21.520 right of just like the other people who died, and 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.040 a thousand sixty eight of the people who were of 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:27.360 the people in that book are people who were who 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:29.960 were convicted of war crimes. And there are also at 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:32.839 fourteen Class A war criminals who either died or were 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.599 executed who are considered martyrs there and Abe fucking like 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:40.000 visited there and like brand and ship and this piste 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:41.800 off everyone, any I mean, this is like there are 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:43.480 lots of people who have gotten mad and me already 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:47.040 for celebrating Abbe's death, and my, my, my, My official 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:48.560 line on this is, if ab didn't want me to 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:50.840 celebrate his fucking death, maybe he shouldn't have celebrated the 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.040 lives of the people who killed my fucking family, So 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:58.120 fuck them. Yeah, so he's not not not a great dude, 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:03.640 This real pack an automatic. The other thing we should 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:05.880 mention too before we go into sort of like the 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:09.280 details of the shooting is that there is an election actually, 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.240 but by by the time this episode drops, I think 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:17.680 the election will have happened, um, where there is a 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:20.520 real chance that the Liberal Democratic Party is going to 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.480 sort of like just fucking sweep it. Because Liberal Democratic 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.000 Party immediately start to blame me the left for this. Uh, 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.840 there's a whole bunch of i mean, just absolutely horrifying 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:32.439 stuff where they're blaming Korean people who live in live 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.280 in Japan, which, if you know anything about Japanese history, 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:39.400 when that stuff starts happening, like in in after the 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.360 Canto earthquake, h a bunch of people just started blaming 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.439 Koreans for the whole thing, and they fucking literally exterminated 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.600 almost the entire Korean population in several major Japanese cities. 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.880 And so this stuff is very scary. Uh, it's possible 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:55.560 that this is going to set off like an incredible 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.280 right wing lyrici of Japanese politics, and there's a chance 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.680 that this this this could be the actual thing that 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:06.120 like full on triggers Japan like we are being and 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:07.880 you know, going back into sort of just being a 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:10.880 pure fascist empire. So this is not Yeah, that that 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:14.520 part is really bad. The motivation for the assassination is still, 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.200 at least at time of recording, still slightly unclear, very 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:22.600 uncle according according to some politicians and news media, we 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.640 do know the suspect is Hito Kojima. That you can 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:30.720 you can infer a little bit fased on. So yeah, 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:35.200 there's there's like French politicians and a Greek news channel 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:39.439 who are you see pictures of video developer Hideo Kojima 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:44.280 and passing them off as the shooting suspect, which is 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:50.560 really funny. It is funny. Pictures of Kachima like inside 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:54.240 like a Russian like communist hat fucking thing, pictures of 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:57.400 him wearing a joker shirt and standing in front of 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:01.400 a Jacobara picture and there you see this as proof 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:05.800 that it's via left wing terrorist and it's actually video 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:13.200 game developer Tokajiba. It's yeah, So like I guess what 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:17.200 we know about the actual shooter, Um, we don't know 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.520 that much. Is a forty two year old guy who 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.160 was a former veteran of the of the Japanese Self 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:25.640 Defense Force. He was he was a Navy guy, which 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:31.040 I guess partially explains why he can shoot a gun. Um, 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.760 But yeah, the details are really murky. What what we've 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.720 got at time of recording is the Japanese police saying 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.520 that it wasn't because of a political thing, and that 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:42.320 it was because of a group that he was that 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:45.160 I was a member of who the funk knows what 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.480 that means. That can mean any number of things. I 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:52.440 I'm not going to speculate live on here because I 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:58.319 I don't know. Uh yeah. But also it was extremely 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.880 funny and we should we should talk about the weapon 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:04.080 that was. Yeah, this is why. This is one of 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.440 the reasons why it's extremely funny and we we should 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.200 probably gonna hand this over to James because James is 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.640 a bit a bit more of an expert in this 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:19.200 type of uh d I Y weapon rate. So what 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.360 what the fund is going on with this homemade gun? Yeah? 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:25.520 This ship, Yeah, this ship is fucking this ship. This 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:31.040 is crazy. Um, yeah, it's extremely funny. It's extremely funny 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.680 that all these people with fifty thou followers on Twitter 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:37.920 who quote and quote do Ocean like immediately label this 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.080 is a three D printed gun, which is not. It 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:43.960 does not look this gun is being held together with 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.040 duct tape like that. That is that. That is the 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:48.800 kind of weapon that we're dealing with. You. This is 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:52.120 this is a homemade gun like held together with fucking 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.000 duct tape. It is extremely It is like he got 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.880 blown up by an electric blunderbuss. It is Yeah, like 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.439 there they're gonna be well, be three D printed parts 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.480 in like around it. But it is, but it's not 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:06.600 it's not looking it's it's it's not like it's not 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:10.560 like a neducite or anything. Um, it's it's a weird 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:16.600 like electronic pipe duct taped together shotgun. Yeah, it's I 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:18.760 think perhaps if people don't understand, we should like break 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:22.120 down how firearms work broadly and then how this one 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:26.400 works specifically. Sure, right, so like and there's no reason 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.040 why you should be familiar with this, but like you 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:30.520 need something to explode, something to make it explode, and 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:32.560 something to go at the end, and a way to 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.920 make sure it only goes in one direction. Right. Uh 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.680 So what this character has done is seemingly it's yeah, 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.839 it's like a blunderbuss or a musket in that it 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:46.320 seems to be like muzzle loaded from the front. Uh 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.400 And uh, I'm looking at it now and it really 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.040 is just covered in duct tape. I tweeted a picture 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.280 of it. It's a gay. Yeah, this ship is is 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.439 very old fashioned. He seems to have made his own 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:00.760 powder to like it was very very smoky, which you 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:02.120 can do. I'm not gonna tell you how to do it, 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:06.840 but it's the thing that is possible, and so essentially 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.320 from what I'm seeing here, it looks like it's like 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:13.240 a piezo electric ignition which then ignites his homemade powder 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:18.120 that he had, uh, and then he's put something in 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.640 a shotgun. Means it doesn't have rifling right, so it 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.960 doesn't impart spin on the projectile. So he's basically got 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.840 two pipes, a piezo electric ignited some homemade powder, and 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.320 then he could have put nails in there. He could 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:34.760 have put a cast lead ball, anything, bolts. And this 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:39.160 wasn't the only homemade weapon he had. The police rated 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:43.240 his house. He had a whole bunch of supplies that 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.000 looks it looks out of like it looks like it's 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.680 out of like fallout or something. It is like there 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.720 was one like blunderbust that had nine different barrels all 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:59.040 duct tapes together. It's like exposed wiring, exposed circuit boards, 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:05.080 like it's it's like it's extremely JANKI yeah, it's like 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.440 I'm not entirely sure that the nine barrel one the 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.960 central barrel isn't touched by the by the structural duct tape, 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:13.960 and I'm not sure that it wouldn't have moved in 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:18.960 one direction or the other when he fired it in Yeah, 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.240 I think that's a there's like a yoga. I can't 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:23.160 see what he's put something on the He's made a 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.240 butt stock with that one, so like he can be 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.400 shoulder it, I guess. And I don't know if that's 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:31.080 like a piece of tire or what, but yeah, yeah, 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:35.080 this is not a precision weapon. Wooden boards. There's like 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.600 some type of like reflective it looks almost like a 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:42.160 smartphone's attached to some of the wiring or there's something 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.800 reflective screen that looks like it's like like an electronic 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:47.600 control box, which could could just be like an old 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:51.160 smartphone or something. Yeah, I wondered if he could, because 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.320 that's what you use for for an improvised explosive device, right, 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.480 it's a it's a cell phone to actuate it. So 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:58.120 it could be maybe he had a plan to just 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:00.040 put it near where are they going to be and 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:04.720 then call it and then think that would be well, 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.040 I mean, no, this this is a this is a 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:09.840 much better assassinated has the stock, So I'm guessing. I'm 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.120 guessing would he beginning to hold it because otherwise there's 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:15.040 no reason to put the butt stock there. Yeah, but 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:19.480 who knows this guy is operating a different level. We 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.200 have no way to know what he was thinking, at 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.960 least at least at least not at the moment. What 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.200 he was thinking was I want to kill Shinzo Abbe 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:31.240 with my pipes and planks. He did it. He's exactly 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:34.400 whatever you think of him. This man didn't successfully kill 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.040 Shenzo Abbe with a gun held together by duct tape. 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.560 It's it's pretty impressive, Like I think the everything about 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.600 this is kind of impressive. A he so so there 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.680 were there were two barrels on it that each fired, 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:48.960 and he managed to hit him from like a pretty 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:52.120 good distance away, Like we don't have there's there's no 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.080 video that directly well at least not that's out yet 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:55.960 that's like directly shows the shooting. We have a lot 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:58.400 of video because I was giving a speech, right, so 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.920 we have a bunch of video of like filming Abbe, 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:03.960 and it's and because of where it is coming from 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.479 off screen, like that was a pretty good distance. And 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:08.560 as best I can tell, he only hit Abbe. I 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.119 don't I don't think. I haven't seen any reports of 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:14.119 anyone else getting hit, So I yeah impressed. That is 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.000 actually that is actually kind of slightly surprising. Yeah, there 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.480 was there was no one else hit. It's like he 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.520 just got the guy. He was that that that is 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.720 genuinely pretty rare and assassinated, like like basically like a 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:32.840 homemade blunderbust cannon was like surprisingly surprisingly controlled and accurate. Yeah. 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.960 I just found a picture of it with the Cyberpunk 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:43.760 seven logo underneath you, which is pretty great. Yeah, this rule. 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.359 Yeah he did manage to cause it kind of just 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.959 put like a large, massive lead ball in it, I guess, 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:54.200 And yeah, whatever, because I don't think it I don't 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.639 think it was one thing. So that one of the 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:58.480 one thing I could say about the that we guys 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.240 we know about the EMMA was that like there they 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.399 were like a bunch of like they're they're one of 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.520 the munch of the reports about the injuries that he suffered. 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.720 We're talking about like he got hit in the back, 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.200 but they're also holes in his neck. So my guests 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:14.560 from a lot of there's a lot of blood from 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.160 a lot of different places. Yeah, I guess it wasn't 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.879 one thing then, but I don't know everything that was 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.000 kind of interesting about this is like the extent to 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.359 which Okay, so like he was like was like very 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.880 clearly dead, like people people had like reported him at 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.080 the scene is having no vitals and they were like, yeah, 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.160 his heart stopped, and they had like coptered at him 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:38.680 to like what tokyo, Yeah, tokyo. But the Japanese government 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:40.160 did a very good job of making sure the press 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.720 had like no information, and so there was just like 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.480 there was like many many many hours where they were 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.919 like pretending that he wasn't dead and like wouldn't confirm 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:49.760 that he was dead. And he's like this, this man 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:53.479 is clearly dead as shit, like he has gotten blown 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:57.320 up by a blunderbus like in the back. His next gone. 0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.520 He's like, I mean he's not not gone, Like his 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:01.720 his neck is next been shot, his heart is stopped 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:05.080 and they just sort of like keep it there for 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.080 for a pretty impressively long long time. And that's the 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:12.439 only thing we we we know very little about what 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:16.399 happened and why um the pressidmen keeping the government's been 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.720 keeping a very tight lid on information about the shooting 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.400 so far. Yeah, I guess we want to pivot into 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:26.600 the gun control side of this sure, Um I guess okay, 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:29.560 so the I mean like there was a mayor shot 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:33.040 a few years ago. Yeah, justin seven Yaka is a 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.639 guy shot the mayor of Nagasaki. So like, and like 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:37.880 there's a there's been a lot of people, like journalists, 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:41.200 people who are like supposedly japan experts who are like, oh, 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.119 this is really rare in Japanese culture. Is like, no, 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.439 it's not. People get assassinated, like like the Japan has 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:47.960 a very low rate of gun violence, but of that 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.200 gun violence and the number of politicians gonna get assassinated 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.439 is like unbelievably high. And you know, I mean like 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:56.439 that there have been there there have been a lot 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.200 of I mean like Abe's like grandfather, it was a 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:02.800 yakishi like got stabbed right after we left office, like 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.679 and he only didn't die because the guy who stabbed 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:07.399 him claimed that he wasn't trying to kill him, he 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.919 was just stabbing him, which is one of the weirdest 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.440 things I've ever heard. I don't know, I I suspect 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.480 some yakuza bullshit was going on there, but yeah, like 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:21.800 Japan has assassinations, um it. There's there's this weird thing 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:25.000 where people think Japan is this place that's like like 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.880 no violence happens, like it's a completely orderly society. It's 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:33.200 like all this all this like weird stuff. Famously, Yeah, 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:36.760 it's like this this is a country. Like this is 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.600 a country where people like like even in like the 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.040 seventies and like through the eighties, people would charge like 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:46.479 RB convoys with sticks and like fight them. Like this 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:51.679 is a country that like like people they have a 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:54.360 sort of ape ship switch that just like yeah, they 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:59.920 have their fair share of like cults that do activite, 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.719 like the fair share of political extreamers that do exilence 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:07.479 like this and like everywhere else in like like everywhere 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:11.360 else in the world, stuff just happened sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:15.040 I think it is interesting that like Japan has extremely 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:21.440 strict gun control, right like licenses, test background checks, prohibitions, 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.360 and most people learning and carrying. But like it's kind 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.679 of interesting that this is more of a like a 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.880 First Amendment question, I guess in American terms, right, Like, 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.600 if you're on the internet enough, I'm sure it looks 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:37.000 like this person has just googled how to make gun 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:40.840 and like this is what came up. And so I 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:44.600 think it's kind of fascinating that that this person has 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:49.400 been like aside from their possible connection to any criminal networks, 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.240 but like I know the Yakuza were selling guns to 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:54.199 people in me and Mark pretty recently, so they have 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.520 access to this. Yeah, and like the mayor who got 0:21:57.520 --> 0:21:59.520 whacked by yaks A guy, like if the Arkansa is 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:01.320 going to do like I don't know if yours is 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:03.560 going to do a killing like they like they they 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:05.440 have access to weapon, they would use a real gun 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:11.639 active together. Okay, so like probably, but also like I 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:14.080 wouldn't completely rule it out because I wouldn't rule out 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.560 them just finding some guy and doing this thing the 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:18.359 FBI does and it's like, hey, you're gonna go do 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:22.159 an attack now, Like it wouldn't It wouldn't surprise me 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:23.800 if that if they did that as like a possible 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:27.400 ideally thing, but like we don't know. Um, I still 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:29.800 don't think we can rule out that head out. Kajima 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:33.080 is the mastermind behind this, um and it's all I mean, 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:37.320 it's I know right, it's it's just employed to play 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:40.920 his next game. UM just have to add a few 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:44.960 like nonsense names to the all the all the people involved, 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:50.960 like blunderbustman. And then it's just it's it's easy, easy. 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:54.719 But yeah, it's fascinating that this person was seemingly like 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:57.720 maybe had other plans or had tried several other like 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:02.439 craft firearms, and settled on this one. But yeah, they 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:04.520 had access to a lot of pipes, that's for sure. 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:07.280 Did you guys see the yuk As a guy who 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:12.560 was arms dealing to me and Ma? No, no, oh, 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:17.560 for fucking wild. So he he was like extensively stung 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:20.680 by the Feds to this guy he was yuk As. 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:24.680 He was part of it, like an ongoing sting operation 0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:29.200 for like several years where he was selling like basically 0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:32.640 like trading guns for drugs, trading guns to buy drugs. 0:23:32.760 --> 0:23:34.040 He was selling to a couple of groups in Me 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:38.320 and Ma. He was two groups in the Tamil region 0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:43.280 and a couple of other people and he uh, he 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:46.439 was at least one of the people he thought was 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:49.920 a buyer was actually a fed. And they've captured all 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:53.320 of these amazing conversations where they call the guns like 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:58.560 cake and ice cream. Like one of the one of 0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:01.800 the things in the the criminal complaint, it's a picture 0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:05.359 of him just with like a a law like an 0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:07.639 anti tank weapon, and he's just like giving it like 0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:10.480 the V sign, and he's wearing these like yellow aviators 0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:14.360 and a leather jacket. Like the way they arrested him 0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:17.320 was at a steakhouse I think either in New York 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:20.600 or New Jersey, but like they lured him into a 0:24:20.640 --> 0:24:23.520 steakhouse meeting and then he got busted by the FEDS. 0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:26.720 But yeah, these guys were trafficking like serious stuff like 0:24:26.760 --> 0:24:29.800 surface to our missiles some things. They have access to 0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:34.760 some pretty heavy equipment. Yeah, that's a that's a pretty 0:24:34.760 --> 0:24:40.960 old Like the officer has been sort of like I 0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:43.119 don't know how you describe it, like a kind of 0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:45.840 like para arm of the Japanese state in a lot 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:48.360 of ways for a very very long time. Like there 0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:51.240 are there have been like because of people with basically 0:24:51.240 --> 0:24:54.520 special forces training. Um, they they at one point like 0:24:54.840 --> 0:24:57.800 kidnapped and killed the Empress of Korea as part of 0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:01.280 like a thing to like justify started a or so 0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:04.560 they are they're very well hooked up. I I I 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:07.080 don't know, it's still unclear to be because like that's 0:25:07.080 --> 0:25:12.520 the obviously everything again, like they're the LDP has a 0:25:12.600 --> 0:25:16.720 lot of the Akasa connections because kind of okay, partially 0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:20.520 kind of everything is, but partially also because the accusae 0:25:20.520 --> 0:25:23.080 were like a sort of founding like political block of 0:25:23.080 --> 0:25:26.159 the l d P in the first place. So who knows, 0:25:26.680 --> 0:25:30.760 like LDP people have gotten like attacked by Akas people before. 0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:32.879 It could be that, it could be something else. We 0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:37.880 sort of just don't know yet. Um. Yeah, there's nothing 0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:40.440 identifying this guy. Like I'm just looking at a picture 0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:43.520 of him and there's nothing particularly sort of identifying his 0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:49.520 clothing or anything like that. Yeah, I guess, I guess 0:25:49.520 --> 0:25:55.760 that's the deficitions of extremely funny critical support to Hideo 0:25:55.800 --> 0:25:59.639 Kajima and all of the other freedom fighters. Oh, I 0:25:59.680 --> 0:26:01.280 guess guess when you talk a little bit about the 0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:05.200 international response to this, Yeah, because people have no idea 0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:08.320 what's ethnic. Yeah, I mean, like so like all the 0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:10.959 Americans are sorry of like are doing the all American 0:26:10.960 --> 0:26:12.840 liberals deserve of doing that, Like, oh my god, he 0:26:12.920 --> 0:26:14.320 was a good guy. It's like, no, he wasn't. This 0:26:14.359 --> 0:26:19.399 guy was a monster. Um Okay, I will say this, 0:26:20.040 --> 0:26:23.040 Both the Chinese and the Korean embassies are being surprisingly 0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:26.800 diplomatic about it, as in no one they haven't no 0:26:26.840 --> 0:26:31.399 one has actively insulted him yet social media wise. Likely 0:26:31.440 --> 0:26:35.800 that's a good move for like inter country relationship, but like, okay, 0:26:35.840 --> 0:26:40.760 like try Japanese relationships with Korea with South Korea and 0:26:40.840 --> 0:26:42.800 North Korea are really bad, and a lot of the 0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:45.520 reason why they're really bad is specifically because of Chanawabe 0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:49.520 and because of all of his bullshit. Happy but they're 0:26:49.560 --> 0:26:52.720 not going to like Rubb it. I mean, it's not 0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:54.479 clear to me that they wouldn't have done this if 0:26:54.520 --> 0:26:58.600 this had happened like the two Tho tangs, Like these 0:26:58.600 --> 0:27:03.040 guys really hate each other. Um. Yeah, there's been some 0:27:03.119 --> 0:27:05.320 sort of like people people are trying to do a 0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:08.360 Taiwan angle on this because Obb is like a Taiwan supporter, 0:27:08.520 --> 0:27:12.760 But I don't Yeah, I don't think there's actually that much. 0:27:12.760 --> 0:27:14.880 The people want this to have much more geo political 0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:23.600 like significance than it probably actually will. Um yeah, yeah, 0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:27.760 well it's meantime. Yeah, fascist is dead. That's always funny. 0:27:28.119 --> 0:27:32.240 It happened, Uh it did in fact happen here. Well, 0:27:32.320 --> 0:27:35.320 it happened over there, but you know what I mean, Um, 0:27:35.359 --> 0:27:40.400 it could happen here. Sertain statistically we are we are 0:27:40.480 --> 0:27:45.919 about to do based on. Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't need 0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:49.240 to to deductate model in America. No, with the amount 0:27:49.280 --> 0:27:51.240 of firearms here, it is kind of a little is 0:27:51.280 --> 0:27:54.360 sometimes a little surprising how little stuff like this actually happens. 0:27:54.560 --> 0:27:56.359 There's obviously a lot of work that goes into like 0:27:56.440 --> 0:27:59.320 preventing it, but but still sometimes it's it's kind of 0:27:59.320 --> 0:28:01.720 it's kind of shot king. Um. Yeah, like I think, 0:28:01.760 --> 0:28:03.200 I think. I think if you look at the last 0:28:03.200 --> 0:28:06.160 twenty years, I think more Japanese politicians have been assassinated 0:28:06.160 --> 0:28:09.199 to American politicians. Like I'm trying to think of an 0:28:09.200 --> 0:28:12.120 American politician because because they do a lot more American 0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:16.240 politicians and a lot of guns they killed, they killed 0:28:16.960 --> 0:28:19.560 when when they went after Gabby giffordge they killed someone, 0:28:19.600 --> 0:28:22.880 I think, But yeah, I don't I'm trying to think 0:28:22.880 --> 0:28:29.439 of anyone else other than that, um not in recent memory. 0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:33.199 The guy who showed Reagan is now touring. Yeah, but 0:28:33.840 --> 0:28:35.800 he didn't even kill him. That's not even assassination. That's 0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:40.280 just an assassination attempts like a very bouched one. Yeah. 0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:46.080 Yeahs that crossover between John Hinckley and Hideo Kajima, It's 0:28:46.080 --> 0:28:49.800 possible that will be the game. I'm just gonna keep 0:28:49.800 --> 0:28:55.000 referring to the suspect of Hideo Kajima. It's worth noting 0:28:55.040 --> 0:28:59.040 that like he did have armed God, so were um 0:28:59.080 --> 0:29:01.160 God's president. That you can see their guns in their 0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:04.920 whole services. They take down the person who shot him, 0:29:04.960 --> 0:29:09.040 but they they were not on their A game that day. Yeah, 0:29:09.120 --> 0:29:11.040 that you can see in the video. There's like one 0:29:11.080 --> 0:29:12.920 of the guys, I think, trying to like get a 0:29:12.960 --> 0:29:15.240 bulletproof briefcase in between Abe and the guy and just 0:29:15.280 --> 0:29:18.760 doesn't work. It just it just it just fails completely. 0:29:18.800 --> 0:29:24.000 They had one job they didn't Yeah, like the operation 0:29:24.080 --> 0:29:27.280 meat Shield. They weren't just on they weren't just not 0:29:27.400 --> 0:29:31.760 on their A game. They completely feel that they're over. Yes, 0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:36.680 it's not like the guy even tried to run away. 0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:39.720 He just like stood there and got arrested. Yeah. Yeah, 0:29:39.800 --> 0:29:41.640 he did not really put much of a did not 0:29:41.680 --> 0:29:45.080 put up much of a fight. Yeah, yeah, he know 0:29:45.200 --> 0:29:48.680 he didn't. Yeah, he he went down pretty fast. I 0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:50.520 guess he went with like this small again, maybe to 0:29:50.560 --> 0:29:53.440 conceal it, because it looks like he was pretty close. Yeah, 0:29:53.920 --> 0:29:57.200 that is that is very likely. Well, a very dark 0:29:57.280 --> 0:30:01.400 day for democracy, um dark day for feminism um as 0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:08.920 Hillary Clinton said, Ah anyway, yeah, yeah, Luckily they have 0:30:09.000 --> 0:30:11.120 RAMA Manual as a bastard to your pan to come 0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:13.120 to them in it's difficult. The the the l d 0:30:13.240 --> 0:30:15.240 P are the only people on earth who does who 0:30:15.240 --> 0:30:19.480 actually deserve RAMA Manual. So look, if if you, if 0:30:19.680 --> 0:30:21.240 you didn't want to have to deal with RAMA Manual, 0:30:21.240 --> 0:30:24.920 you should have taken all that's your money. Is this 0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:27.360 is this is now their curse. Well, I'm sure we'll 0:30:27.360 --> 0:30:29.360 talk more about these types of holmemade weapons and all 0:30:29.360 --> 0:30:30.880 that kind of kind of stuff in the future because 0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:34.120 it is. It is interesting. And you know, places where 0:30:34.120 --> 0:30:36.640 places where like actual firearms are hard are harder to get. 0:30:36.720 --> 0:30:39.040 We're seeing more and more ship like this popping up. 0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:42.200 Yeah yeah, and that'll that would definitely be worth be 0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:46.880 worth getting into, along with three D printed weapons. All right, 0:30:48.240 --> 0:30:51.360 anything else to add? Does that? Does Does that? Do it? Yeah? 0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:55.280 I think that's a wrap. All right? Well, follow the 0:30:55.280 --> 0:30:57.520 show on Twitter, Instagram. But happened here pod and cools 0:30:57.520 --> 0:31:01.080 the media, Uh, see you next time? Even critical support 0:31:01.080 --> 0:31:22.080 to Hideokachima, welcome to it could happen here the podcast 0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:28.920 that just happened here? All right, that's my by part done, Chris, 0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:32.160 What are we What are we talking about today? I 0:31:32.160 --> 0:31:34.360 I have brought you all here today to discuss one 0:31:34.400 --> 0:31:37.640 of the most sacred and variable of our political institutions, 0:31:37.680 --> 0:31:41.560 an institution whose words echo through history and carved the political, legal, 0:31:41.600 --> 0:31:44.680 and economic framework of our world. I am referring, of course, 0:31:44.680 --> 0:31:48.000 to the bread riot. Hey, there we go. I love 0:31:48.080 --> 0:31:50.360 good bread riot. I do too. This is this is 0:31:50.680 --> 0:31:52.800 a good a non zero part of why I wrote 0:31:52.800 --> 0:31:55.720 this episode. How how is this? How is this relatable? 0:31:55.800 --> 0:31:58.920 The grain supplies seems really stable right now? It's all 0:31:58.960 --> 0:32:01.800 what everyone says about the grain supply. No one. No 0:32:01.960 --> 0:32:04.200 one has thrown a ball top through a bank window 0:32:04.240 --> 0:32:08.880 in two hundred years. I was. I was reliably informed 0:32:08.920 --> 0:32:12.040 by several Marxist historians that that bread riots were over. 0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:18.000 I'm gonna I'm gonna google Ukrainian wheat harvest, as I 0:32:18.040 --> 0:32:21.880 do every exactly five years. The moment just now came 0:32:21.920 --> 0:32:23.959 up where where I check it every five years. Let 0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:31.560 me just uh, is there a problem? Well, let me 0:32:31.600 --> 0:32:34.240 go eat my fifth wonder bread slice of the day 0:32:34.320 --> 0:32:38.720 and not think about it. Good stuff, all right? So yeah, 0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:41.239 let's talk bread riots. Yeah, we're talking bead riots. So 0:32:41.640 --> 0:32:45.040 prep riots are an ancient institution. Um, you can, I mean, 0:32:45.040 --> 0:32:47.040 you can find them like very easily as far back 0:32:47.040 --> 0:32:53.400 as the Roman Republic, of Roman Republican policy bread like Okay, 0:32:53.600 --> 0:32:55.560 if you wanted to go further back than that, I 0:32:55.600 --> 0:32:59.280 have no doubt you could like spend probably ten minutes 0:32:59.320 --> 0:33:02.880 and find bread rioting in like Sumeria or something. I 0:33:02.880 --> 0:33:04.479 didn't do this. And the reason I didn't do this, 0:33:04.560 --> 0:33:06.440 even though I'm talking about the history of the bread riot, 0:33:06.520 --> 0:33:08.600 is that the sort of the structure of the bread 0:33:08.680 --> 0:33:12.680 riot is shaped inexorably by the sort of political and 0:33:12.680 --> 0:33:15.240 economic conditions around it, and the political and economic condition 0:33:15.280 --> 0:33:18.960 of ancient Rome are somewhat similar to us, but not really. 0:33:19.280 --> 0:33:21.480 So instead of doing that, we're starting in the late 0:33:21.520 --> 0:33:24.480 seventeen hundreds, where there are a lot of bread riots, 0:33:24.600 --> 0:33:26.600 but particularly there's a lot of very well documented bread 0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:30.640 riots in the UK and France. And I guess but 0:33:30.680 --> 0:33:34.320 before we actually like talk about the specific riots, we 0:33:34.320 --> 0:33:37.680 should you should talk about what a bread right actually 0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:41.800 is because okay, so I mean, on a very superficial level, 0:33:41.800 --> 0:33:43.800 of bread riot is when people don't have bread and 0:33:43.840 --> 0:33:47.360 they riot, But the actual response to that and what 0:33:47.400 --> 0:33:51.040 the riots look like are interesting and sort of complicated. Um, 0:33:51.080 --> 0:33:53.080 I'm going to quote now from the book Free Markets 0:33:53.080 --> 0:33:55.960 and Food Riots. This is just talking about specifically the 0:33:55.960 --> 0:34:00.600 seventeen hundreds riots. But yeah, food riots took several forms. 0:34:00.640 --> 0:34:03.520 A the blockader and trade that prevented the export of 0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:07.320 grain from an area in which shortages existed. Be the 0:34:07.360 --> 0:34:11.280 price riot or taxation popularity in which food was seized 0:34:11.280 --> 0:34:14.200 by protesters, a just price set and the lot sold. 0:34:14.680 --> 0:34:18.360 See a grarian demonstrations in which farmers destroyed their own produces, 0:34:18.320 --> 0:34:21.600 a dramatic protest. Indeed, the market right, in which the 0:34:21.600 --> 0:34:24.960 crowd took me retribute of action against commercial agents, bakers 0:34:24.920 --> 0:34:27.160 and millers and local magistrates in the form of looting 0:34:27.280 --> 0:34:30.960 or tumultuous assembly to force dealers and local authorities to 0:34:31.000 --> 0:34:34.279 reduce prices. So, okay, there's a lot of different things 0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:35.640 going on here. We're going to get back to the 0:34:35.640 --> 0:34:39.760 farmer's protest stuff like a lot later because the specific 0:34:39.840 --> 0:34:42.080 kind of like rural like versions of this kind of 0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:46.000 fading into the background for a couple of centuries. Um, 0:34:46.080 --> 0:34:48.560 what's happening the urban centers. That was really interesting in 0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:50.200 a lot of ways, and it gets at the core 0:34:50.239 --> 0:34:52.200 of what's going on in these sort of like late 0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:56.000 santeen hundreds riots. Notably, the crowds who are doing the 0:34:56.120 --> 0:34:58.520 rioting are just like they're not just like seizing the 0:34:58.600 --> 0:35:00.560 bread and eating it, which is a thing that like 0:35:01.000 --> 0:35:02.759 you would assume they would be doing if they were 0:35:02.800 --> 0:35:04.160 you know, it's a bunch of people who are starving 0:35:04.160 --> 0:35:06.160 and there's bread and they take it, right, But that's 0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:07.880 that's actually not what they're doing. What they're doing is 0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:10.399 essentially negotiating over price. You see this in the sort 0:35:10.400 --> 0:35:13.239 of price riot thing, right. You know. The thing that 0:35:13.280 --> 0:35:15.520 they actually do is they see a bunch of grain 0:35:15.760 --> 0:35:17.600 and then they sell it off at what they sort 0:35:17.640 --> 0:35:19.560 of like and what they deem a fair price is. 0:35:21.480 --> 0:35:23.319 And you know what what this is the something to 0:35:23.360 --> 0:35:25.920 do basically is it's it's a it's a very very 0:35:25.960 --> 0:35:28.400 direct way of trying to get bakers to lower their prices. 0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:32.719 And the other thing that's about these riots is that 0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:35.919 they are they're they're very politically sophisticated, and they're they're 0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:38.480 very targeted. Um, there's the thing you hear a lot, 0:35:38.520 --> 0:35:41.640 and if if you ever read anything about any modern riot, 0:35:42.560 --> 0:35:46.080 you will hear just people ranting about how people are 0:35:46.120 --> 0:35:49.160 destroying blindly destroying their own neighborhoods, and it's it's just 0:35:49.200 --> 0:35:54.320 like not true. Riots tend to have sort of riots 0:35:54.320 --> 0:35:56.760 tend to have a sort of political specific political focus 0:35:56.760 --> 0:35:59.239 and attacking specific targets, which is why, like, you know, 0:35:59.520 --> 0:36:01.680 the first things that go up in a riot are pawnshops, 0:36:01.719 --> 0:36:05.160 liquor stores, police stations, and now stores that think they're 0:36:05.160 --> 0:36:10.360 employed employees badly They literally have specific targets. Yeah, yeah, 0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:13.480 like it it's you know, it's it's it's very like 0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:15.759 all all of all of the stuff that's happening is 0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:18.960 stuff that has like it's the result of political grievances 0:36:18.960 --> 0:36:21.480 that people have sort of been accumulating for a long time. 0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:24.120 And this is also true of these sort of of 0:36:24.160 --> 0:36:27.040 these early bread riots too. Going back to the book, 0:36:27.040 --> 0:36:30.839 free Markets and food rights, protesters did not rampage indiscriminately, 0:36:30.920 --> 0:36:34.040 but focus their wrath in particular individuals and institutions whom 0:36:34.040 --> 0:36:37.920 the crowd held responsible for unjust practices. Typically, it was 0:36:37.960 --> 0:36:40.480 not the producers or retailers of food, but the middlemen 0:36:40.520 --> 0:36:43.160 who were seen as responsible for shortages and price raises. 0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:47.879 The grain dealers wholesalers, speculators, and mills. Grain shipments by 0:36:47.880 --> 0:36:51.120 wagon ship and canal bars were seves and distributed among 0:36:51.120 --> 0:36:54.479 participants are sold at a just price. Warehouses were rated 0:36:54.520 --> 0:36:58.720 with similar results. Textile workers in seventeen seventy reams quote 0:36:58.920 --> 0:37:01.440 sees the talents of our gets proceeded to sell all 0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:03.200 the grain in the market at three quarters of the 0:37:03.200 --> 0:37:06.000 current price. They then turn their attention to the warehouse 0:37:06.040 --> 0:37:08.640 into the grainaries of numerous religious houses, which they treated 0:37:08.640 --> 0:37:11.560 in a similar fashion. Yeah, and so you know, like this, 0:37:11.560 --> 0:37:13.480 this this is like this is a pretty remarkable degree 0:37:13.480 --> 0:37:16.279 of political sophistication right there. They're not targeting sort of 0:37:16.280 --> 0:37:18.640 farmers or bakers, and especially not targeting people who are 0:37:18.640 --> 0:37:21.439 like well known election the community. They're targeting people who 0:37:21.440 --> 0:37:25.200 they can directly tie it toto grand price speculation. And 0:37:25.560 --> 0:37:27.000 this is, you know, in someone sense like this this 0:37:27.040 --> 0:37:29.320 is a demonstration of the kind of like basic contradiction 0:37:29.360 --> 0:37:31.560 of the market. Right on the one hand, you have 0:37:31.680 --> 0:37:34.440 bread as this like physical thing that you need to survive. 0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:36.840 On the other hand, you have bread as this market commodity, 0:37:37.040 --> 0:37:39.480 and the market you know, as a market commodity. It's 0:37:39.480 --> 0:37:41.800 a sort of speculative asset which people are like buying 0:37:41.840 --> 0:37:44.400 and selling and hoarding like stocks, because not because they 0:37:44.400 --> 0:37:46.399 actually eat it, but because they're interested in its sort 0:37:46.440 --> 0:37:49.799 of market value. And you know, the Marxists will call 0:37:49.840 --> 0:37:52.319 this the difference between the use value or like the 0:37:52.360 --> 0:37:54.239 value you get from eating a piece of bread, and 0:37:54.280 --> 0:37:57.000 the exchange value, which is like the bread is a 0:37:57.000 --> 0:37:59.600 commodity that can be traded for the commodities. And you know, 0:37:59.640 --> 0:38:01.360 I like this is this isn't sometimes like this is 0:38:01.400 --> 0:38:03.719 behind a lot of like the housing crisis. Right now, 0:38:03.800 --> 0:38:05.799 you have a bunch of people who buy houses and 0:38:05.840 --> 0:38:08.560 apartment buildings that you know, not because they need to 0:38:08.600 --> 0:38:10.360 live on them, but as an asset that will appreciate 0:38:10.400 --> 0:38:12.920 over time, you know, like appreciating value over time like 0:38:12.960 --> 0:38:15.279 stocks do. But this means that people who like need 0:38:15.320 --> 0:38:18.680 houses to like live in them, like, don't get a 0:38:18.719 --> 0:38:21.279 house because they're being held by people who are trying 0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:24.480 to get the value to appreciate. And the goal of 0:38:24.520 --> 0:38:27.640 these riots is basically to prevent bread from becoming an 0:38:27.640 --> 0:38:30.160 exchange value, that is, to sort of like market commodity 0:38:30.200 --> 0:38:33.399 user speculation and turn them back into use values. But 0:38:33.480 --> 0:38:35.799 even again here this is interesting, right, because it's not 0:38:35.840 --> 0:38:39.040 like these people are like like like anti market, anti capitalists, right, 0:38:39.080 --> 0:38:41.279 they tend not to sort of just seize the bread 0:38:41.280 --> 0:38:44.640 out right. What they're doing is they they're insisting on 0:38:44.760 --> 0:38:49.399 buying it at a specific quote unquote just price. And 0:38:49.880 --> 0:38:51.520 this this sort of gets into the question of, like, 0:38:51.560 --> 0:38:53.640 why are these riots happening in the first place. Um, 0:38:53.800 --> 0:38:56.919 The obvious explanation like, Okay, the people are rioting because 0:38:56.920 --> 0:38:59.960 the price of bread is increasing, But that's that's not 0:39:00.120 --> 0:39:03.319 actually like an explanation, right, It's just it's a precondition. 0:39:03.320 --> 0:39:05.000 But there's a lot of places where bread prices rising, 0:39:05.000 --> 0:39:08.920 you'd never get a riot. So a lot of of 0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:11.080 people have studied this and try to figure out what 0:39:11.160 --> 0:39:14.480 is happening. The second explanation that historians come up with 0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:17.560 is something called the moral economy, um and and and 0:39:17.600 --> 0:39:20.719 in this bottle, people aren't just reacting to like a 0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:23.080 price increase, but what they're actually reacting to is what 0:39:23.160 --> 0:39:26.280 becomes known as the entitlement gap, which is this gap 0:39:26.360 --> 0:39:28.719 between people what people think they're entitled to based on 0:39:28.920 --> 0:39:31.400 the morality and how hard they work, etcetera, and like 0:39:31.400 --> 0:39:33.839 what they actually get. And so you know, in less 0:39:33.840 --> 0:39:37.600 academic language. It's people going like I'm getting price gouged. 0:39:37.600 --> 0:39:39.480 This is bullshit. Bring the prices down that what they're 0:39:39.520 --> 0:39:42.799 supposed to be. And you know that's part of it. 0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:45.720 That there's there's another theory that argues that food riots 0:39:45.719 --> 0:39:48.160 are different by these like really complicated or like webs 0:39:48.160 --> 0:39:51.680 of horizontal social relations and like things like a networks 0:39:51.680 --> 0:39:56.000 of wives and like political organizations and sort of like 0:39:56.520 --> 0:39:58.719 alliance is to happen inside of villages stuff like that, 0:39:58.840 --> 0:40:03.319 and that, you know, and these groups sort of like 0:40:03.400 --> 0:40:05.759 react to price increases by banding together and voicing people 0:40:05.800 --> 0:40:09.920 are lower prices. Um. Now, notably, I want one of 0:40:09.920 --> 0:40:11.640 the like the things I listed in those that like 0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:14.120 web of things right as wives, net works as the 0:40:14.120 --> 0:40:17.280 sort of like first community widly as the food riots. Um. 0:40:17.320 --> 0:40:19.600 And this is this is turns out to be important. 0:40:19.680 --> 0:40:23.200 Women are often like the leaders an initiator of bread riots, 0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:26.080 and the sort of theory behind it is that they're 0:40:26.080 --> 0:40:28.399 actually the ones like buying the bread and so they're 0:40:28.440 --> 0:40:31.480 sort of they're more in tune with disturbances of food prices, etcetera. 0:40:32.200 --> 0:40:34.560 And you know, the food price increases are a threat 0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:37.600 to what academics called social reproduction or an essence like 0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:39.880 taking care of yourself, your family and your household, like 0:40:39.960 --> 0:40:42.520 making sure you can sort of support and raise your children. 0:40:42.600 --> 0:40:45.120 So there's well, so the the good version of it 0:40:45.160 --> 0:40:46.759 is it's you're taking care of the people around you. 0:40:46.960 --> 0:40:48.960 The cynical version of it is it's social. It's real, 0:40:49.040 --> 0:40:51.760 it's social reproduction because you're creating another generation of workers 0:40:51.760 --> 0:40:55.439 for capital, all right, but because women end up doing 0:40:55.480 --> 0:41:00.799 like enormously disapportionate amount of that work. Uh, they you know, 0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:02.799 they wind up in the streets first because they are 0:41:02.800 --> 0:41:05.360 the people who are most acutely sort of like sensitive 0:41:05.400 --> 0:41:11.480 to this stuff happening. Um, yeah, what's what's you know? 0:41:11.520 --> 0:41:15.040 The and and the other thing is sort of worth 0:41:15.080 --> 0:41:17.719 noting here is that riots are these these kind of 0:41:17.719 --> 0:41:20.560 bread riots are usually urban affairs, and they're sort of 0:41:20.560 --> 0:41:22.520 they're the product of people who live in cities, right, 0:41:22.560 --> 0:41:26.040 It's sort of artisans and industrial workers. There's this like 0:41:26.200 --> 0:41:28.440 fighting corps of teenagers who seemed to show up in 0:41:28.440 --> 0:41:31.480 all of these bread riots, and thankfully that that that 0:41:31.520 --> 0:41:33.840 never happens today. We do not have a bunch of 0:41:33.840 --> 0:41:36.279 teenagers show up any time to fight the cops. And 0:41:36.320 --> 0:41:41.960 something bad happens. No experience with this. Yeah, I've certainly 0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:47.520 never seen anything like that happened these other countries. Have 0:41:47.800 --> 0:41:51.439 the FEDS put piles of bricks out on the street, Well, 0:41:51.480 --> 0:41:53.799 you know this is we have. We haven't. They haven't 0:41:53.840 --> 0:41:56.239 gone to that level of entrapman yet. They're right, they're 0:41:56.280 --> 0:41:58.719 not powerful enough that this. This is before the development 0:41:58.719 --> 0:42:01.720 of the police state. Yeah, they didn't have an FBI 0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:06.080 to burn down the Third Precinct. Yeah, they haven't devented 0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:11.120 the agent provocatury yet. A cunning false flag. So what's 0:42:11.120 --> 0:42:14.319 interesting about the eighte century riots? Those I've been talking 0:42:14.320 --> 0:42:16.600 a lot about how these are live women, and that's true, 0:42:17.239 --> 0:42:20.880 but specifically the age ones tend to be more gender 0:42:20.880 --> 0:42:23.160 balanced and later riots. And I'm going to read this 0:42:23.239 --> 0:42:25.200 from the historian Lynn Taylor because it's it's one of 0:42:25.239 --> 0:42:26.759 the funniest things I've ever read in my life, and 0:42:26.800 --> 0:42:30.680 I love it. Cynthia Bolton's study of the French Flower 0:42:30.719 --> 0:42:34.160 War of seven of seventeen seventy five makes clear the 0:42:34.200 --> 0:42:37.239 mixed nature of traditional food riots. Indeed, the number of 0:42:37.239 --> 0:42:40.200 men involved had increased significantly in the Flower Wars due 0:42:40.239 --> 0:42:44.800 to the changing male economic social including familial and political status. 0:42:44.840 --> 0:42:48.400 During thecon regime, there's was a life of precarious and 0:42:48.440 --> 0:42:52.160 declining social economic position. This equilibrium in the family structure 0:42:52.160 --> 0:42:55.120 of political alienation, one that left them in position similar 0:42:55.120 --> 0:42:58.839 to those of mothers, wives, sisters, and daughters. The men 0:42:58.880 --> 0:43:03.399 who rioted had in crucial ways been feminized. Oh boy, 0:43:04.719 --> 0:43:08.480 they before they're writing, because I mean, this is a 0:43:08.600 --> 0:43:13.000 thing that literally happened in uh in Myanmar during the uprising. 0:43:13.040 --> 0:43:16.440 That there are kind of local, local cultural sort of 0:43:16.480 --> 0:43:19.120 attitudes there that make it that have made it for 0:43:19.120 --> 0:43:24.240 a long time, like essentially considered like shameful to touch 0:43:24.520 --> 0:43:29.040 women's clothing um or particularly like there's certain things that 0:43:29.120 --> 0:43:31.000 like you don't wear and that you're not supposed to 0:43:31.080 --> 0:43:33.600 look at if you see someone dressed that way, um 0:43:33.680 --> 0:43:36.640 that are like traditional women's clothing. And so a bunch 0:43:36.640 --> 0:43:39.279 of male protesters would dress that way and form up 0:43:39.320 --> 0:43:41.520 and like ranks at the protests because it made the 0:43:41.560 --> 0:43:47.120 police like uncomfortable and sometimes like back off. That's extremely cool. Yeah, 0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:51.359 there's like some literal examples of that very recent riots. Yeah, 0:43:51.400 --> 0:43:53.200 And I think that gets at one of the things 0:43:53.280 --> 0:43:56.319 that's sort of happening is happening in this period too, 0:43:56.320 --> 0:43:59.640 which is that like one of the kinds of things 0:43:59.640 --> 0:44:01.719 that gen raise these bread riots is this kind of 0:44:01.840 --> 0:44:04.200 is this instability and gender roles and is this sort 0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:08.200 of instability in in what the role of a person 0:44:08.239 --> 0:44:11.200 in society is going to be and that I don't know, 0:44:11.200 --> 0:44:13.799 it has a lot of interesting effects. And when those 0:44:13.800 --> 0:44:16.040 effects are riots, the stuff that stuff that happens is 0:44:16.080 --> 0:44:18.040 really cool because you get a lot of sort of 0:44:18.080 --> 0:44:21.160 like gender roles getting messed up, you get a lot 0:44:21.239 --> 0:44:25.160 of like social ties being broken. I guess. So the 0:44:25.520 --> 0:44:28.080 other thing that's going on in this period, um that 0:44:28.239 --> 0:44:33.400 is is important because because it's sort of like foreshadows 0:44:33.440 --> 0:44:35.120 a lot of what the sort of later bread riots 0:44:35.120 --> 0:44:38.480 are going to be about. Is that and this is 0:44:38.520 --> 0:44:40.600 this is like the fourth theory of bread riots. If 0:44:40.640 --> 0:44:42.719 you sort of like go through your economic historians of 0:44:42.960 --> 0:44:47.520 this stuff. Um they're talking about basically the late Senti 0:44:47.640 --> 0:44:50.200 hunters are are one of the sort of key moments 0:44:50.360 --> 0:44:54.920 in like the formation of the modern state. And what 0:44:55.280 --> 0:44:57.160 this means in terms of food is that control the 0:44:57.160 --> 0:44:59.160 food supply is mood from these this sort of like 0:44:59.239 --> 0:45:02.640 parentalistic like feudal state thing where on a local level 0:45:02.719 --> 0:45:06.040 you have guaranteed prices and access to food, and this 0:45:06.080 --> 0:45:08.200 has shifted to laws for capitalism in which there is 0:45:08.360 --> 0:45:10.560 there there are there are no price controls, there's there's 0:45:10.600 --> 0:45:14.440 no guarantee you can get food. And subsequent to this, 0:45:14.600 --> 0:45:16.840 also at the same time is the centralization of the 0:45:16.880 --> 0:45:20.000 military bureacracy. And cent relation to the military bureaucracy means 0:45:20.040 --> 0:45:22.799 that they're taking more control of the food supply um 0:45:22.880 --> 0:45:25.920 here here from few markets and food riots. Again, older 0:45:25.960 --> 0:45:28.680 parent realistic models operating at the local level and assuring 0:45:28.719 --> 0:45:32.680 a prentiful supply of necessaries at a low price were 0:45:32.760 --> 0:45:35.640 undermined by new national policies aimed at greater efficiency and 0:45:35.680 --> 0:45:39.800 market regulation. Spanning a century and more. The policies included 0:45:39.840 --> 0:45:45.640 such varied activities as enclosure, land concentration, capital, intensification of farming, proletarianization, 0:45:45.719 --> 0:45:48.720 grain exports, taxes, tariffs, and other government efforts to regulate 0:45:48.719 --> 0:45:52.120 the food supply. Price riots were simply one expression of 0:45:52.120 --> 0:45:56.239 popular grievances stemming from this broader change. And this is something, 0:45:56.239 --> 0:45:58.600 this is something that that's very common. Bread riots are 0:45:58.640 --> 0:46:01.560 are like deeply an intimate linked in the with the 0:46:01.600 --> 0:46:05.120 ways that food, food product the food production process is changing, 0:46:05.560 --> 0:46:08.040 and specifically linked to the link to the ways of 0:46:08.040 --> 0:46:11.000 the food production process is changing because of the state 0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:15.160 and markets. But we're sort of leading into the late 0:46:15.160 --> 0:46:19.279 seventeen hundreds, and at this point something happened that no 0:46:19.320 --> 0:46:22.680 one expected. A bread riot went completely the other direction. 0:46:22.719 --> 0:46:26.360 It irrevocably changed the state in the market itself. Um. 0:46:26.400 --> 0:46:30.520 And I am talking about histories maybe most famous bread riot. 0:46:30.840 --> 0:46:34.800 That's right, it's the French Revolution baby, liberty, egality, fraternity, 0:46:34.840 --> 0:46:37.400 han han and this is this is this is you 0:46:37.440 --> 0:46:40.120 mean to tell me that the French had a revolution. 0:46:41.360 --> 0:46:43.680 I mean it's kind of it's kind of marginal. Admittedly, 0:46:44.040 --> 0:46:46.400 the fame that doesn't sound like the French that I know. 0:46:47.280 --> 0:46:52.680 That's true. The modern French have replaced revolution with racism unfortunately. 0:46:53.040 --> 0:46:54.920 But you know, look, look we're we're we're we're in 0:46:54.920 --> 0:46:58.960 the seventeen hundreds. Things are different. Um. Yeah, and so 0:46:59.000 --> 0:47:01.279 we're we're we're in in a secondary going to talk 0:47:01.320 --> 0:47:04.439 about the Red riot that changed the history of bread 0:47:04.520 --> 0:47:06.640 rights and the course of world history forever. But first, 0:47:06.800 --> 0:47:13.799 do you know who doesn't love bread riots? Yeah? Who 0:47:14.239 --> 0:47:17.799 is the primary sponsor of this show? She realized the 0:47:17.800 --> 0:47:20.800 whole cake thing didn't work out great. So now she's saying, 0:47:21.360 --> 0:47:26.239 let him have podcasts, let them cast pods. We're back in. 0:47:26.400 --> 0:47:30.040 Our primary sponsor has been executed by a mob. So 0:47:30.719 --> 0:47:34.359 if you are a member of European nobility, maybe you're 0:47:34.360 --> 0:47:39.839 a Habsburg you know, um hit us up and uh 0:47:40.000 --> 0:47:44.200 offer us a sponsorship. Yeah, well, okay, we we We're 0:47:44.239 --> 0:47:46.480 going to rewind a little bit before they kill Mary 0:47:46.520 --> 0:47:51.759 Antoinette to get to how that happened. So one of 0:47:51.760 --> 0:47:53.920 the things if you read the sort of literature on 0:47:54.000 --> 0:47:55.719 bread rights, one of the things bread right people will 0:47:55.719 --> 0:47:57.480 talk about over and over again is bread rights being 0:47:57.520 --> 0:48:01.400 a political and they kind of like stretch this to 0:48:01.680 --> 0:48:03.239 a point, well because I mean okay, so like like 0:48:03.480 --> 0:48:06.719 there's a couple levels which doesn't make any sense, right, Like, okay, 0:48:06.880 --> 0:48:09.680 if you think that bread is being sold at too 0:48:09.760 --> 0:48:12.680 high a price because people are are gouging you, that 0:48:12.800 --> 0:48:14.799 is political, right, and then you go out and make 0:48:14.840 --> 0:48:19.319 them nott do that. Yeah, that's politics. People love to 0:48:19.400 --> 0:48:22.719 say things aren't political when they don't align with like 0:48:22.840 --> 0:48:26.200 a simple political party, like if it if it doesn't 0:48:26.239 --> 0:48:29.920 line up directly with the kind of approved debate topics 0:48:29.960 --> 0:48:32.360 between the political parties that dominate things. They like to 0:48:32.400 --> 0:48:36.760 say ship is a political but you know, starving because 0:48:36.760 --> 0:48:40.320 of the tax decisions or whatnot is is an inherently 0:48:40.320 --> 0:48:43.359 political thing. Yeah, and and and and deciding that you're 0:48:43.360 --> 0:48:45.680 not going to starve and taking bread from people, it's 0:48:45.680 --> 0:48:49.360 an incredibly political thing. Yeah, that's the politics. You have 0:48:49.440 --> 0:48:52.560 done a politicy, I've done, You've done a lot of politics, 0:48:52.640 --> 0:48:55.120 and you know, but but one of one of the 0:48:55.160 --> 0:48:57.200 things that that and the other thing this leads to 0:48:57.400 --> 0:49:00.560 is if if if a thing that involves bread suddenly 0:49:00.640 --> 0:49:03.719 like turns into capital p politics, and suddenly you have 0:49:03.800 --> 0:49:07.040 people doing things that are like well understood as like 0:49:07.080 --> 0:49:10.799 conventional political gestures, immediately everyone stops calling it a bread right. 0:49:12.000 --> 0:49:14.880 And if but like, if you look at what's actually happening, 0:49:14.920 --> 0:49:17.279 it's here's a bunch of people who are mad about 0:49:17.280 --> 0:49:19.840 the price of bread. Uh, they went to change the 0:49:19.880 --> 0:49:21.719 price of bread. It kind of didn't work, and so 0:49:21.760 --> 0:49:25.920 instead they oversee the government and this is this is 0:49:25.960 --> 0:49:28.200 this is this is uh, this is the bread right 0:49:28.239 --> 0:49:31.200 that that we're getting to now up until you know, 0:49:31.360 --> 0:49:38.400 up until nine, like you can argue that like people 0:49:38.640 --> 0:49:40.920 historians will argue that oh it's bad rights a political 0:49:41.480 --> 0:49:47.239 that just ends in I think it's October five. But 0:49:47.360 --> 0:49:50.120 but by this point the French Revolution is like, well underway. Um, 0:49:50.160 --> 0:49:52.880 they've stormn the Bistell. There's a bunch of people in 0:49:52.920 --> 0:49:58.480 a parliament writing a constitution. But like in October of nine, 0:49:58.520 --> 0:50:02.319 it's still unclear, like how radical any of this is 0:50:02.320 --> 0:50:05.080 going to be? Right, Um, at this point it still 0:50:05.080 --> 0:50:06.799 seems likely that there's going to be a king. And 0:50:06.840 --> 0:50:08.080 not only is there gonna be a king, the king 0:50:08.160 --> 0:50:13.960 is Cearlialy gonna be pretty strong. And then yeah, in October, uh, 0:50:15.600 --> 0:50:19.960 maybe history's most same as bread right breaks out? So 0:50:20.120 --> 0:50:23.120 seven thousand women who are like incredibly piste off at 0:50:23.120 --> 0:50:25.800 the high price of bread and Paris march on Versailles, 0:50:25.840 --> 0:50:27.839 which is where the Royal family of France had been 0:50:27.880 --> 0:50:30.919 like governing France from for like a hundred years. And 0:50:31.520 --> 0:50:35.520 these women are really really angry and they they they 0:50:35.600 --> 0:50:38.120 basically forced the royal family to come back within to Paris. 0:50:39.239 --> 0:50:40.680 And I guess it's it's important to note here that 0:50:40.680 --> 0:50:43.480 Paris and versided like twelve miles apart, so this isn't 0:50:43.480 --> 0:50:45.319 like a multi day journey. They just like get mad 0:50:45.440 --> 0:50:47.279 one day and they wake up and they walk to 0:50:47.880 --> 0:50:53.040 the next city over, and this radically changes the entire 0:50:53.080 --> 0:50:57.040 direction of the French revolution because once, if the royal 0:50:57.040 --> 0:51:00.320 family is in Versailles, right like, the Parisian mob doesn't 0:51:00.320 --> 0:51:03.439 have direct access to them. But once that, once they're 0:51:03.440 --> 0:51:05.759 in Paris, and once once once this bread riot like 0:51:06.120 --> 0:51:10.040 brings the king to Paris. Suddenly the entire, like, the 0:51:10.160 --> 0:51:12.879 entire concentrated political power of the French system is now 0:51:13.760 --> 0:51:15.600 centered in Paris and is now in a place where 0:51:15.600 --> 0:51:19.680 subsequent bread riots can actually do stuff. And this directly 0:51:19.760 --> 0:51:21.839 leads to the King's being executed, This leads to our 0:51:21.840 --> 0:51:27.640 sponsors getting guillotined, and it basically it's it's it completely 0:51:27.680 --> 0:51:33.160 cements bread as sort of like the central part of 0:51:33.160 --> 0:51:34.800 of like one of the central aspects of what the 0:51:34.800 --> 0:51:36.640 French Revolution is about. Like by by, by the end 0:51:36.680 --> 0:51:38.920 of the revolution, that the that the slogan of the 0:51:38.960 --> 0:51:41.759 sort of revolutionary French working class is bred in the 0:51:41.800 --> 0:51:45.120 Constitution of seventee. So you know, you can you can 0:51:45.160 --> 0:51:46.640 you can you can look at the priorities there and 0:51:46.680 --> 0:51:48.880 look at like all of this is sort of and 0:51:49.000 --> 0:51:52.640 a sort of extended rolling bread riot um unfortunately for 0:51:52.760 --> 0:51:56.640 us uh and spoilers to everyone who has not caught 0:51:56.760 --> 0:52:01.360 up on the end of the French Revolution. The revolution loses, 0:52:01.480 --> 0:52:06.239 Napoleon takes power, and this is where we enter the 0:52:06.320 --> 0:52:10.319 era of what's going as the bourgeois revolution. This is 0:52:10.360 --> 0:52:12.520 this is the modern era. And if you if you've 0:52:12.560 --> 0:52:15.319 read your like your like Arab cops swam, you're like, 0:52:15.440 --> 0:52:18.200 you're you're sort of very conventional like march historians, you're 0:52:18.200 --> 0:52:21.960 conventional sort of liberal historians. They will all tell you 0:52:22.000 --> 0:52:24.280 that the bread riots ort of dies in nearly eighteen hundreds, 0:52:24.280 --> 0:52:27.320 and that's replaced by like strikes and political protests organized 0:52:27.320 --> 0:52:30.279 by unions and parties, because like the rural class has 0:52:30.280 --> 0:52:32.759 been like displaced at the center of history by the 0:52:32.800 --> 0:52:38.279 industrial working class. And that's just like not true, um. 0:52:38.360 --> 0:52:40.759 And it's not true in two senses. One, it's in 0:52:40.800 --> 0:52:43.400 the sense that like we have bread riots now, but 0:52:43.440 --> 0:52:45.879 it's also not true because there's another wave of bread 0:52:45.960 --> 0:52:48.600 riots that are that are very very conventional and very 0:52:48.640 --> 0:52:52.200 much sort of in the classic Sampion Hunter's bolt. Here 0:52:52.280 --> 0:52:55.000 is here's Lynn Taylor again. It is true that the 0:52:55.000 --> 0:52:58.640 proactive form of protests became common, even predominant by the 0:52:58.640 --> 0:53:03.600 early twentieth century. However, scatitude the periodical literature are accounts 0:53:03.600 --> 0:53:06.359 of twentieth century food riots, which looks surprisingly like those 0:53:06.400 --> 0:53:09.480 of the eighteenth and early nineteenth century, something not expected 0:53:09.480 --> 0:53:13.720 in modern industrialized nation states. Food riots occurred in northern 0:53:13.760 --> 0:53:16.160 France in nineteen eleven, in Britain during the winter of 0:53:16.239 --> 0:53:19.000 nineteen sixteen, nineteen seventeen in New York and nineteen seventeen 0:53:19.000 --> 0:53:23.600 in Toronto and BOTHWY three in Barcelona in nineteen eighteen, 0:53:24.400 --> 0:53:26.840 in Vichy, France in nineteen forty two, and in northern 0:53:26.840 --> 0:53:30.160 France throughout the German occupation. The form of protests was 0:53:30.200 --> 0:53:33.560 remarkably consistent in each and reminiscent of traditional food riots 0:53:34.120 --> 0:53:37.880 of earlier centuries. And these are these are these are 0:53:37.960 --> 0:53:40.680 very conventional sort of eighteenth century bread riots. They're led 0:53:40.719 --> 0:53:44.080 by women. They refuse that they're led by women who 0:53:44.120 --> 0:53:46.520 are refusing to pay a higher price for food. And 0:53:46.600 --> 0:53:49.239 in some sense they kind of are a political in 0:53:49.280 --> 0:53:52.200 that there are various attempts in like basically all of 0:53:52.239 --> 0:53:55.319 these protests by like organized political organists to take that over, 0:53:55.400 --> 0:53:58.400 and basically every single time the women who were involved 0:53:58.400 --> 0:54:01.560 are like, no, absolutely not uh, there's there. There's a 0:54:01.680 --> 0:54:04.080 very funny one where I think this is the the 0:54:04.760 --> 0:54:09.239 I think this is the British one in seventeen were 0:54:09.239 --> 0:54:10.799 like a bunch of men show up and the women 0:54:10.840 --> 0:54:13.359 are like, no, go home, you can't riot with us. 0:54:13.360 --> 0:54:16.440 This is this is our riot now. Yeah. Then the 0:54:16.480 --> 0:54:19.080 British case in particular was also interesting because this is 0:54:19.120 --> 0:54:21.000 the middle of World War One, and so you know, 0:54:21.040 --> 0:54:23.160 this is a sort of giant presence looming over these 0:54:23.200 --> 0:54:28.560 these these bread riots, and you know the government sort 0:54:28.560 --> 0:54:30.640 of like that. The government, in response to this, or 0:54:30.680 --> 0:54:33.640 sponsor to widespread hunger, like, decreased these price controls on food, 0:54:33.960 --> 0:54:37.040 but farmers are just refusing to obey them, and so 0:54:37.200 --> 0:54:40.600 women in Mayport organized and the result was quote when 0:54:40.640 --> 0:54:42.680 one farmer said he did not care what the government 0:54:42.760 --> 0:54:46.520 said about price controls, there was bedlamb The women rushed 0:54:46.520 --> 0:54:49.680 the farmer's cart, and the street was quote filled with hooting, yelling, 0:54:49.719 --> 0:54:52.319 women and young people while potatoes, cabbages and turn ups 0:54:52.360 --> 0:54:55.440 were flying through the air. The example of Mayport soon 0:54:55.520 --> 0:54:57.799 spread to other parts of the country. These riots are 0:54:57.840 --> 0:55:00.040 led by housewives who had filled the front line and 0:55:00.120 --> 0:55:02.360 did much of the fighting. Although the miners of Cumberland 0:55:02.360 --> 0:55:05.239 were also active in supporting their wives efforts, both as 0:55:05.280 --> 0:55:08.360 added bodies strengthening the crowds, but also through the Minors 0:55:08.400 --> 0:55:13.000 Association other working class institutions. So A, I don't know, 0:55:13.080 --> 0:55:15.880 I had to include this specifically because the image of 0:55:15.920 --> 0:55:18.120 a bunch of people throwing cabbages at farmers is extremely 0:55:18.160 --> 0:55:23.839 funny to me. Oh, but the other thing I think 0:55:23.920 --> 0:55:27.000 is interesting here is you can serve to see the 0:55:27.080 --> 0:55:31.440 shifts from the sort of eighteenth century like riots to 0:55:31.520 --> 0:55:33.759 these ones on on a social level, where you know, 0:55:33.800 --> 0:55:35.640 in the eighte hundreds you're dealing with sort of like 0:55:35.719 --> 0:55:38.000 town and sort of peasant cultural groupings thur s approaching 0:55:38.040 --> 0:55:41.359 the protest, but by the nineteen hundreds bread riots are 0:55:41.360 --> 0:55:44.200 being backed by like organized political institutions. Um, there's another 0:55:44.200 --> 0:55:46.480 one in New York in ninteen seventeen, which is remarkable 0:55:46.520 --> 0:55:52.839 for being it's self organized by Like it's remarkable because 0:55:52.840 --> 0:55:55.319 it's it's self organized by women, even though this is 0:55:55.800 --> 0:55:57.360 like the part of New York they're in is a 0:55:57.360 --> 0:56:00.239 Socialist Party stronghold, But the Socialist Party isn't there people 0:56:00.239 --> 0:56:02.240 who do it. It's the women who are like married 0:56:02.440 --> 0:56:04.400 in a lot of cases the Social Party or in 0:56:04.440 --> 0:56:07.680 to some excenter in it, but are sort of operating autonomously, 0:56:07.840 --> 0:56:09.759 and they do this thing where they sort of like 0:56:09.760 --> 0:56:13.480 they start setting and forcing these boycotts of like shops 0:56:13.480 --> 0:56:15.399 that are deemed to be at like price gouging levels, 0:56:15.400 --> 0:56:16.600 and they fight the cops and they do a bunch 0:56:16.640 --> 0:56:20.520 of stuff. Um. And the ones I mentioned in Toronto 0:56:20.600 --> 0:56:25.319 earlier interesting because those ones actually do like have an 0:56:25.400 --> 0:56:28.000 organization in the beginning, but in keeping with sort of 0:56:28.000 --> 0:56:30.440 the tradition of of of the bread right, the organization 0:56:30.520 --> 0:56:34.640 was the Jewish Women's the Jewish Women's Labor League. And 0:56:34.680 --> 0:56:37.600 these are these are remarkably effective political movements. They win 0:56:37.640 --> 0:56:39.960 their demands really quickly. I'm going to read one more 0:56:39.960 --> 0:56:43.920 account because it just rules. Uh. Lester Golden and Temma 0:56:44.000 --> 0:56:47.240 Caplan have both examined food riots in Barcelona in nineteen, 0:56:48.040 --> 0:56:50.560 part of a wave of riots which occurred between June nine, 0:56:50.760 --> 0:56:55.240 seventeen and March nine throughout Spain. As in previous cases, 0:56:55.239 --> 0:56:57.960 these riots arounted because of devastating price inflation I think 0:56:58.000 --> 0:57:01.200 we know nothing about now this time, resulting from the 0:57:01.200 --> 0:57:04.400 post war collapse of the economy. The participants were all women. 0:57:04.400 --> 0:57:07.880 They forbade men's participation, and the actions were led first 0:57:07.920 --> 0:57:10.160 by radical Republicans and then by a small group of 0:57:10.160 --> 0:57:13.960 female and arco syndicalists. The women's demands were simple and straightforward. 0:57:13.960 --> 0:57:16.760 They demanded lower prices for foods. They attacked bread shops 0:57:16.760 --> 0:57:18.960 and cold wag as it took over a ship laden 0:57:19.000 --> 0:57:22.640 with fish. When police and civil guard attempted to break 0:57:22.640 --> 0:57:24.720 out the women crowds of women on the street, the 0:57:24.720 --> 0:57:27.160 woman turned on them, stripping some of the officers of 0:57:27.160 --> 0:57:32.320 their pants, spanking or thrashing them, and sending them home. Yes, yes, 0:57:34.360 --> 0:57:42.080 that's that's it's so good, perfect, perfect, This is the 0:57:42.200 --> 0:57:45.360 energy we need in every century that human beings have 0:57:45.400 --> 0:57:50.479 ever inhabitants. Amazing that the historians are parent parenthetical note 0:57:50.920 --> 0:57:54.760 after that is quote, rather undermining their authority in the process, 0:57:54.840 --> 0:57:58.520 which yes, I would imagine. So, yes, if you are 0:57:58.640 --> 0:58:01.600 if you are being spanked by a crowd, you have 0:58:01.800 --> 0:58:04.840 lost control of that crowd. That that that is that 0:58:05.000 --> 0:58:09.840 is fair to say. And so they it takes about 0:58:09.880 --> 0:58:15.920 three weeks and they win and prices drop thirty So 0:58:16.120 --> 0:58:19.160 good for them. That's a pretty solid look. Hey, I 0:58:19.200 --> 0:58:21.160 think I think most of the people listening would do 0:58:21.240 --> 0:58:24.000 some hardcore spanking if they could get at cut on 0:58:24.040 --> 0:58:27.200 their grocery bill. Yeah, it's it's look, I'm just saying 0:58:27.960 --> 0:58:30.040 it is much harder to pull down a modern cops 0:58:30.040 --> 0:58:32.840 trousers because they're wearing like so much weird ship on 0:58:32.920 --> 0:58:38.440 top of it. But belt technology has improved tremendously since then. Yeah, however, Comma, 0:58:39.400 --> 0:58:43.680 where there is a will, there's a way. Yep. If 0:58:43.680 --> 0:58:45.880 I learned one thing from high school, if that anyone 0:58:45.920 --> 0:58:49.360 can be pantsed just you just you just have to. 0:58:49.360 --> 0:58:50.760 You just have to. You just have to want it 0:58:50.840 --> 0:58:52.520 hard enough. You have to want it more than the 0:58:52.560 --> 0:58:55.520 person wants to be wearing their pants. That's right, that's right, 0:58:55.640 --> 0:58:59.480 you have to believe. So there's one more of these 0:58:59.480 --> 0:59:01.760 bed right since we're talking about, which also is not 0:59:01.840 --> 0:59:05.000 conventionally framed as a bread right, but is entirely keeping 0:59:05.040 --> 0:59:07.680 with everything I've said here, the February Revolution in Russia. 0:59:08.840 --> 0:59:11.840 Um So, the February Revolution is the revolution that actually 0:59:11.920 --> 0:59:15.360 overthrows there. There's another revolution, which is the act Revolution, 0:59:15.400 --> 0:59:16.880 which is one of the bullshers come to power. But 0:59:18.040 --> 0:59:19.960 that's a that's that's a separate one. They're fighting a 0:59:20.000 --> 0:59:23.840 completely group of people. The February Revolution has all of 0:59:23.880 --> 0:59:25.920 the sort of key factors of a bread right right. 0:59:25.960 --> 0:59:28.360 There's these massive bread lines. Women are piste off by 0:59:28.480 --> 0:59:32.080 lack of food. The revolution itself is led by women 0:59:32.120 --> 0:59:34.480 whose like male comrades had literally told them, don't, like, 0:59:34.680 --> 0:59:36.240 don't go out and do a protest on that day 0:59:36.240 --> 0:59:39.480 because this is International Women's Day. But the like all 0:59:39.520 --> 0:59:41.400 all of the men who are like doing this are 0:59:41.480 --> 0:59:44.240 are convinced that, like the conditions aren't right for revolution, 0:59:44.320 --> 0:59:45.920 so they try to get everyone to stay home, and 0:59:46.080 --> 0:59:50.840 everyone's like no. And you know, like the sort of 0:59:50.960 --> 0:59:54.480 key difference between the like this bread right and the 0:59:54.520 --> 0:59:57.840 other bread rounds we were talking about is that, you know, 0:59:58.000 --> 1:00:00.600 the the demands of the of the the march in 1:00:00.640 --> 1:00:04.760 International Women's Day, United seventeen are overtly political, like they 1:00:04.880 --> 1:00:06.919 they are chanting down with the czar and they're trying 1:00:06.960 --> 1:00:11.280 to overthrow the government. And this, you know, this is 1:00:11.320 --> 1:00:14.080 another thing that has this sort of like incredible impact 1:00:14.360 --> 1:00:17.240 on on how the bolshot revolution is is sort of working. Right, 1:00:17.360 --> 1:00:20.960 Like Lenin winds up using peace bread in land as 1:00:21.000 --> 1:00:23.440 one of the sort of like central like Bolshevik slogans 1:00:23.480 --> 1:00:25.040 because part of it, because a huge part about the 1:00:25.040 --> 1:00:29.560 revolution is is just a bread riot, and that that 1:00:29.680 --> 1:00:31.880 that's where where we're that's that's where we're gonna leave 1:00:31.880 --> 1:00:35.640 it today, with the world just completely and utterly transformed 1:00:35.920 --> 1:00:38.800 by another bread riot. And next episode we're going to 1:00:38.880 --> 1:00:42.000 get to the modern bread riots because those are also interesting. 1:00:43.440 --> 1:00:47.640 And yeah, we're gonna once again prove everyone who insists 1:00:47.640 --> 1:00:49.640 that bread riots don't happen anymore wrong, A thing that 1:00:49.720 --> 1:00:51.600 I didn't know existed until I started reading this and 1:00:51.640 --> 1:00:55.640 then now incredibly mad about. Yeah, So go out there 1:00:56.440 --> 1:01:00.040 and have a bread riot, pants a cop or a 1:01:00.120 --> 1:01:05.120 mother kind of riot, you know, a guacamole riot um, 1:01:06.760 --> 1:01:10.840 a mate riot um, you could have You could have 1:01:11.000 --> 1:01:14.280 some kind of corn riot um. You could have a 1:01:14.440 --> 1:01:17.440 riot over order Lan. That would be a unique kind 1:01:17.480 --> 1:01:20.840 of riot. Don't think anyone's ever rioted over that. That 1:01:21.000 --> 1:01:23.960 bird that that's such a beautiful songbird. That eating it 1:01:24.000 --> 1:01:26.240 as a sin, so you have to like hide your 1:01:26.240 --> 1:01:28.520 shame underneath a sheet so God doesn't see you eat it. 1:01:28.600 --> 1:01:31.240 Have a riot over one of those, you know, Yeah, 1:01:31.280 --> 1:01:50.120 I do that. I love how often the Holocaust has 1:01:50.160 --> 1:01:55.040 been trending over the last year. Um, that's good. That's 1:01:55.040 --> 1:01:59.680 the thing you want to see trending in um It's 1:01:59.760 --> 1:02:04.480 it could happen here, all right, Chris, continue with your 1:02:04.480 --> 1:02:08.360 bread riots. Yeah, we're back. There's more riots. Uh now. 1:02:08.520 --> 1:02:11.120 Last episode we talked about historians declaring the end of 1:02:11.120 --> 1:02:12.760 the bread death of the bread riot, and like in 1:02:12.800 --> 1:02:15.520 the sixties and early seventies, Like I think that this 1:02:15.640 --> 1:02:17.400 is this is one of the ways you can tell 1:02:17.480 --> 1:02:19.480 that period people genuinely thought the world was going to 1:02:19.560 --> 1:02:22.320 get better. It was that like they genuinely believed that 1:02:22.520 --> 1:02:26.280 like the centralized state and like capitalism can always provide foods. 1:02:26.320 --> 1:02:29.680 You want u bread riots anymore you get market You 1:02:29.800 --> 1:02:32.160 if you were born in that period, you like grew 1:02:32.280 --> 1:02:35.360 up and people were fleeing from dynonic as is in 1:02:35.440 --> 1:02:38.640 the street and like getting getting eaten by woolly mammoth's 1:02:39.080 --> 1:02:41.920 And then by the time you're forty, you've got the telegraph. 1:02:42.040 --> 1:02:44.360 So I get it, right, I get why people think 1:02:44.440 --> 1:02:47.520 that that progress was really go back in those because 1:02:47.560 --> 1:02:50.040 they got they wiped out the dynonic as. This is. Yeah, 1:02:50.560 --> 1:02:54.600 you have seen how wear'd taff building the pyramids exactly 1:02:54.800 --> 1:02:58.320 exactly exactly you have you have you have seen the 1:02:58.480 --> 1:03:01.080 future rise up literally and rent of view, and they 1:03:01.160 --> 1:03:04.920 went from eating mud to Hershey's chocolate. It's it's an 1:03:04.920 --> 1:03:08.960 incredibly impressive sort of sort of period of modern historical evolution. 1:03:10.720 --> 1:03:12.320 And you know, and one one of the things you see, 1:03:12.400 --> 1:03:15.520 like like you'll see like Marxists calling bread rice primitive 1:03:15.640 --> 1:03:19.200 rebels doing like populist mob politics that's been like displaced 1:03:19.240 --> 1:03:22.000 by proper Marxist class politics. And then like every single 1:03:22.040 --> 1:03:24.520 one of these people was like the most wrong anyone, 1:03:24.840 --> 1:03:30.000 like basically from that period until until the moment the 1:03:30.240 --> 1:03:32.160 end of history. Guy starts writing, they are the most 1:03:32.280 --> 1:03:36.040 wrong people like on the planet. Well, it's also funny 1:03:36.520 --> 1:03:39.560 to hear that idea that like there was something primitive 1:03:39.600 --> 1:03:43.320 about these people's class analysis, because like the Brothers Gracky 1:03:43.560 --> 1:03:47.440 and Ancient Republican Rome a lot of this ship they're saying, 1:03:47.480 --> 1:03:50.320 it's not at all primitive class analysis like this, it's 1:03:50.400 --> 1:03:54.000 it's pretty developed. Yeah, And I mean, like the Marxist 1:03:54.080 --> 1:03:56.080 will do some long argument about how like oh they 1:03:56.160 --> 1:03:58.160 they have they have false consciousness, they're not trying to 1:03:58.200 --> 1:04:00.160 abolish the class system or whatever, and it's like, well, 1:04:00.160 --> 1:04:02.040 I mean, like I look at the Martin the Marxist 1:04:02.120 --> 1:04:07.160 in demolish classist them either. So like yeah, like yeah, 1:04:07.200 --> 1:04:09.000 like that these are these are very The's something we're 1:04:09.000 --> 1:04:11.440 gonna be coming back to a lot this episode is 1:04:11.480 --> 1:04:14.320 that the people doing this are incredibly sophisticated political actors. 1:04:14.520 --> 1:04:18.040 And one of the sort of modern version of this 1:04:18.520 --> 1:04:21.960 is in the nineteen seventies, not only did bread riots 1:04:22.040 --> 1:04:24.760 not and there's a new kind of bread riot and 1:04:24.960 --> 1:04:26.920 these riots are collectively known as the I M. F 1:04:27.080 --> 1:04:30.080 Riots um. From from from January nine, seventy six to 1:04:30.120 --> 1:04:34.680 October nineteen ninety two, there are riots in Peru, Egypt, Ghana, Jamaica, Liberia, 1:04:34.720 --> 1:04:39.600 the Philippines, a year, Turkey, Morocco, Sierra Leon, Sudan, Argentina, Ecuador, Chile, Bolivia, Brazil, 1:04:39.920 --> 1:04:44.800 Panama to Tunisia, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, El Salvador, Costa Rica, 1:04:44.840 --> 1:04:49.760 Guadibala in Mexico, Yugoslavia, Zambia, Poland, Algeria, Romania, Nigeria, Hungary, Venezuela, Jordan, 1:04:49.840 --> 1:04:54.760 the Avery Coast, nigeri, Ron, Albania, India, and Nepal. Were 1:04:54.800 --> 1:04:58.560 you just do like the wacko the whacko Warner's song, 1:04:58.880 --> 1:05:02.000 It's that's literally all the play I found the chart 1:05:02.080 --> 1:05:03.919 that has all of them is like, there's just so many. 1:05:04.360 --> 1:05:07.200 They just keep happening. And again that's only like they 1:05:07.280 --> 1:05:09.600 they're they're still happening. And the ever thing I should 1:05:09.640 --> 1:05:12.320 mention is those are just the ones that are called 1:05:12.400 --> 1:05:14.560 the I m F riots. There's a bunch of other riots, 1:05:14.600 --> 1:05:16.400 some of which are bred riots, that aren't called the 1:05:16.440 --> 1:05:18.320 I m F riots because they're not really sort of 1:05:18.440 --> 1:05:21.440 like directly involved with the I m F. And and 1:05:21.520 --> 1:05:24.000 that that this raises the question of what the fund 1:05:24.080 --> 1:05:29.400 is an IMF riot? Uh, And the answer is that, unfortunately, 1:05:29.440 --> 1:05:31.480 to to understand why people are throwing ball atops through 1:05:31.520 --> 1:05:35.160 bank windows, we have to talk about banking a little bit. Um. 1:05:35.280 --> 1:05:38.120 I I have talked, I guess at length. Yeah, I 1:05:38.320 --> 1:05:40.440 I apologize, but we will we will get back to 1:05:40.480 --> 1:05:42.200 the riots, damn, But I promise we just have do 1:05:42.320 --> 1:05:46.160 a little bit of banking. So yeah, I've talked extensively 1:05:46.280 --> 1:05:48.560 on the show about the crisis of the seventies. And 1:05:48.760 --> 1:05:50.760 you know, the short version is that in a thing 1:05:50.800 --> 1:05:54.600 that is completely unrecognizable today, the global economy collapses, inflation skyrockets, 1:05:55.320 --> 1:05:57.880 countries across the global South start taking out these suggestable 1:05:57.960 --> 1:06:00.280 right that they've been taking out these suggestable right owns, 1:06:00.400 --> 1:06:02.200 and then suddenly the interest rate spike and they started 1:06:02.240 --> 1:06:06.000 faulting on these loans. Here's our free markets and food 1:06:06.080 --> 1:06:09.160 riots talking about it. Although the causes of the crisis 1:06:09.280 --> 1:06:12.280 run deeper, by the nineteen seventies, many smaller nations began 1:06:12.360 --> 1:06:14.600 to feel the strains of insolvency as a result of 1:06:14.640 --> 1:06:18.800 a world wide recession, successive oil price shocks, declining world 1:06:18.840 --> 1:06:23.080 commodity prices, and accelerating debt service obligations. So but basically, 1:06:23.160 --> 1:06:25.680 like if you're a small country, right, the price of 1:06:25.720 --> 1:06:28.400 everything you need to buy, like oil, is going up, 1:06:28.480 --> 1:06:29.960 and the price of what you can sell, which is 1:06:30.000 --> 1:06:34.600 like commodities like copper tin, is collapsing, and these lead 1:06:34.640 --> 1:06:37.200 to what are like these massive what are called balance 1:06:37.240 --> 1:06:39.880 of payments crises, And so we should we talk about 1:06:39.880 --> 1:06:41.960 what about what a balance of payments crisis is? And 1:06:42.160 --> 1:06:43.800 this one is up being really important here there's the 1:06:43.840 --> 1:06:47.200 story about che Guevara, like right after like literally right 1:06:47.240 --> 1:06:50.560 after the Cuman revolution, is he so he goes to 1:06:50.640 --> 1:06:53.600 the US and he's in a he sits he's in 1:06:53.680 --> 1:06:56.160 this meeting with a bunch of bankers, and he's trying 1:06:56.240 --> 1:06:58.360 basically to get Cuba's gold reserves and cup us sort 1:06:58.360 --> 1:07:00.280 of like foreign exchange reserves out of the S. The 1:07:00.360 --> 1:07:03.360 U S doesn't steal it. And it was funny about 1:07:03.360 --> 1:07:05.080 it is all the bankers who are talking to him, 1:07:05.280 --> 1:07:07.440 like all of them report afterwards like, woll wow, this 1:07:07.480 --> 1:07:09.880 guy talks like a banker, not a communist. And the 1:07:10.400 --> 1:07:12.280 specifically the reason they were like, oh hey, this guy 1:07:12.360 --> 1:07:13.920 talks like a banker is that he knew what balance 1:07:13.960 --> 1:07:17.640 of payments was. Um. The short answer is at a 1:07:17.680 --> 1:07:19.880 balance of payments crisis is when there's more money flowing 1:07:19.880 --> 1:07:21.600 out of the country than there is coming into it. 1:07:23.280 --> 1:07:25.080 And the results of this is that you run out 1:07:25.080 --> 1:07:27.080 of money, and particularly the thing you run out of 1:07:27.120 --> 1:07:28.840 as American dollars, which is the thing that you need 1:07:28.920 --> 1:07:31.880 to like buy oil. So you get these countries that 1:07:31.880 --> 1:07:33.760 are massively in debt and they run out of money, 1:07:34.240 --> 1:07:36.160 and the only thing they could do is turn to 1:07:36.320 --> 1:07:38.400 like is turn to the International Monetary Fund and the 1:07:38.440 --> 1:07:40.800 i m F, who like the only description of the 1:07:40.840 --> 1:07:42.200 i m F that I have is that like they're 1:07:42.280 --> 1:07:44.560 they're they're basically like if the cartoon Bank of Evil 1:07:44.600 --> 1:07:49.200 from Despicable me like ran the entire world economy. They 1:07:49.520 --> 1:07:51.560 you know, so the I m F shows up to 1:07:51.680 --> 1:07:54.360 these countries and is like loll lamau each ship, and 1:07:54.400 --> 1:07:57.360 they forced these countries to implement like in order to 1:07:57.400 --> 1:07:59.120 get loans. They forced him to implet what are called 1:07:59.160 --> 1:08:03.320 stabilization programs because of the quote conditionality of the loans 1:08:03.360 --> 1:08:05.400 that they have. All these like this really technical boring 1:08:05.760 --> 1:08:11.520 like neoliberal like legal language for it, the like the 1:08:12.440 --> 1:08:14.680 this this is all sort of banker speak for if 1:08:14.720 --> 1:08:16.719 you wanted other loans you can buy food, You're gonna 1:08:16.720 --> 1:08:18.479 have to rob every single person you know and hand 1:08:18.479 --> 1:08:21.080 them and hand us all your money. Uh. This eventually 1:08:21.120 --> 1:08:23.920 becomes now to structural adjustment programs. There's all of this 1:08:24.160 --> 1:08:26.400 sort of technical language disguise what's going on. But what's 1:08:26.400 --> 1:08:28.240 actually going on is that in order to pay off, 1:08:28.640 --> 1:08:30.640 in order to pay the bankers for these loans, they 1:08:30.680 --> 1:08:34.400 are taking food for the moles of children. Um. Yeah, 1:08:34.600 --> 1:08:38.680 here's a more technical, I guess explanation of what's happening here. 1:08:39.320 --> 1:08:43.439 Austerity programs include stern measures or shock treatments that trigger 1:08:43.520 --> 1:08:47.160 market mechanisms to stimulate export production and increased government for 1:08:47.320 --> 1:08:52.000 exchange reserves. So, according to the theory, currency devaluation make 1:08:52.200 --> 1:08:56.120 three world exports more competitive in the international market. Reduced 1:08:56.160 --> 1:08:59.520 public spending curbs inflation and saves money for debt repayments. 1:09:00.080 --> 1:09:03.800 Privatization of state owned corporations generated more productive investment and 1:09:03.880 --> 1:09:07.920 reduce public payrolls. Elimination of protectionism and other restraints on 1:09:08.000 --> 1:09:12.200 foreign investment lurns more more efficient export firms. Cuts in 1:09:12.280 --> 1:09:15.280 public subsidies for food and basic necessities helped to get 1:09:15.400 --> 1:09:19.519 prices right, benefiting domestic producers. Wage restraints and higher interest 1:09:19.640 --> 1:09:23.880 rates reduce inflation and enhance competitiveness, and import restrictions can 1:09:23.920 --> 1:09:28.759 serve form exchange for debt servicing. So this has winners 1:09:28.800 --> 1:09:32.800 and losers, and the losers are like everyone in the 1:09:32.880 --> 1:09:35.800 country that is happening to and this is and this 1:09:35.960 --> 1:09:39.639 is pretty cost cross class. Like these policies they hir workers, 1:09:39.680 --> 1:09:42.120 the hir peasants, the hair small shopkeepers, the middle classes 1:09:42.120 --> 1:09:46.320 annihilated just like people who are consumers you buy goods, 1:09:46.479 --> 1:09:48.880 and even the sort of like the local capitalists just 1:09:49.000 --> 1:09:51.920 get screwed by this because what the I m F 1:09:52.040 --> 1:09:54.679 is doing is forcing everyone to have lower wages, taking 1:09:54.760 --> 1:09:57.360 massive benefit cuts and massively spiking the price of food. 1:09:58.640 --> 1:10:01.800 And you know, I I I want to get remind 1:10:01.840 --> 1:10:04.960 everyone that this this is explicitly what the Federal Reserve 1:10:05.040 --> 1:10:07.360 is trying to do to us right now, Like this 1:10:07.479 --> 1:10:08.800 is this is the kind of stuff that they're talking 1:10:08.800 --> 1:10:11.439 about in order to curb inflation, is to just make 1:10:11.560 --> 1:10:14.240 the pay everyone less, make everyone take benefits cuts, and 1:10:14.240 --> 1:10:17.960 then increase the price of ship. So the winners of 1:10:18.040 --> 1:10:21.800 this are like six bureaucrats, international investors, and like a 1:10:21.920 --> 1:10:28.360 class of like absolutely horrific large agricultural landowners. And this 1:10:30.520 --> 1:10:32.400 this has about the effect that you would expect it 1:10:32.479 --> 1:10:35.960 to um. Between nineteen seventy six and late nine two, 1:10:36.000 --> 1:10:38.719 some a hundred and forty six incidents of protests occurred, 1:10:38.760 --> 1:10:41.839 reaching a peak from nineteen eight three to nine, continuing 1:10:41.920 --> 1:10:45.599 to the present without attenuation. Now, the authors who are 1:10:45.640 --> 1:10:48.360 writing this right, they're writing this in nineteen four So 1:10:48.360 --> 1:10:50.160 when they say they continue to the present without tentation, 1:10:50.200 --> 1:10:54.240 they four, The thing is the last one of those 1:10:54.400 --> 1:11:00.360 riots ended like a week ago. Oh yeah, yeah, they're 1:11:00.360 --> 1:11:05.760 still they're still going um so, and you know, and 1:11:05.920 --> 1:11:08.720 these these riots are slightly different than the the sort 1:11:08.760 --> 1:11:11.280 of like classical bread riots, right, because they are about 1:11:11.280 --> 1:11:13.160 the increasing price of food, it's also about the increasing 1:11:13.160 --> 1:11:16.320 price of fuel or sort of broader austerity measures or 1:11:16.360 --> 1:11:19.679 cuts to services and stuff like that. Um here, here's 1:11:19.680 --> 1:11:21.880 there's a quote about like what these things actually look like. Um. 1:11:23.280 --> 1:11:27.400 Demonstrations and riots typically target specific institutions perceived as responsible 1:11:27.479 --> 1:11:31.759 for the depredations. Marches and protesting crowds converge on major 1:11:31.880 --> 1:11:34.240 thoroughfares and government buildings, such as the treasury or the 1:11:34.320 --> 1:11:38.160 national bank, or the legislature, the presidential palace. Looters attack 1:11:38.200 --> 1:11:42.160 supermarkets and clothing stores. Where fuel and transportation subsidies are 1:11:42.200 --> 1:11:46.160 part of the austerity package, busses and gasoline stations are burned. 1:11:46.520 --> 1:11:50.320 The international dimension of austerity are recognized symbolically in attacks 1:11:50.360 --> 1:11:54.240 on travel agencies for and automobile's, luxury hotels and international 1:11:55.040 --> 1:11:58.759 travel agencies or all that too, but also international agency offices. 1:11:59.600 --> 1:12:01.400 And you know this is gonna sound familiar from the 1:12:01.439 --> 1:12:03.439 last episode. It turns out that just like the eight 1:12:03.600 --> 1:12:05.920 Touch of People, that the attacks of these things are 1:12:05.960 --> 1:12:10.040 are very targeted. The sort of like forms of resistance 1:12:10.320 --> 1:12:12.519 have changed over time, because you know, this is now 1:12:12.720 --> 1:12:15.960 we we we do have modern political organizations. Right, Like 1:12:16.120 --> 1:12:18.360 we get general strikes, you get sometimes you get just 1:12:18.400 --> 1:12:21.720 noble bread riots. Sometimes you get these just things that 1:12:21.760 --> 1:12:24.400 are like large protests and then they turn into riots. 1:12:25.360 --> 1:12:28.720 And what's interesting about them is that these are very 1:12:28.880 --> 1:12:32.479 sort of these are very sort of cross class movements. Right. 1:12:32.520 --> 1:12:34.479 You have your sort of classical sectors of the urban poor. 1:12:34.680 --> 1:12:38.160 You have, like particularly in the global South, you can 1:12:38.240 --> 1:12:40.439 you have your shanty dwellers, you have unemployed youth, you 1:12:40.560 --> 1:12:43.120 have small street vendors or like a crucial sort of 1:12:43.600 --> 1:12:45.320 element of these things you have like just your guy 1:12:45.400 --> 1:12:48.479 selling cigarettes on the street. Um, you get you also 1:12:48.560 --> 1:12:50.960 get like parts of the industrial working class. You get 1:12:51.040 --> 1:12:54.000 sometimes you get unions. A lot of times you get students, 1:12:55.400 --> 1:12:57.880 you get public employees. Sometimes you get professional groups. One 1:12:57.920 --> 1:12:59.280 of one of the interesting things that's reading about this, 1:12:59.360 --> 1:13:01.639 I've read like a few books in this EREA who 1:13:01.680 --> 1:13:04.439 were talking specifically and this this isn't like the nineties, right, 1:13:05.000 --> 1:13:09.120 We're specifically talking about professional groups in Sudan. And it's 1:13:09.160 --> 1:13:11.840 like it's like, Okay, it's it's people are talking to 1:13:11.920 --> 1:13:15.120 professional groups and Sudan backing rioters against the government. It's 1:13:15.160 --> 1:13:17.960 two thousand and nineteen. People are talking about professional groups 1:13:18.000 --> 1:13:21.439 backing protests against the government. It's like it's I don't know, 1:13:21.560 --> 1:13:25.240 Like there's this extent to which all of these things 1:13:26.560 --> 1:13:28.759 that the I m F riots have just been happening 1:13:28.840 --> 1:13:30.760 over and over and over again for about fifty years, 1:13:31.000 --> 1:13:35.280 and a lot of the elements are incredibly similar. One 1:13:35.320 --> 1:13:36.920 of the other things that's going on here is that 1:13:37.240 --> 1:13:42.320 these protests are driven are driven by mass organization. Typically, 1:13:42.320 --> 1:13:46.240 austerity protests were precipitated by dramatic overnight price heights resulting 1:13:46.240 --> 1:13:49.040 from the termination of public subsidies on basic goods and services, 1:13:49.360 --> 1:13:52.679 proclaimed by the government as a regrettably necessary reform, urged 1:13:52.720 --> 1:13:55.599 by the I m F and international lenders as conditions 1:13:55.680 --> 1:13:59.000 for new and renegotiated loans. Five deaths in the first 1:13:59.080 --> 1:14:02.439 Peruvian protests to get a pattern of violence. Peru remained 1:14:02.439 --> 1:14:05.559 a hotbed of austerity protest, with students and workers demonstrating 1:14:05.600 --> 1:14:10.559 against increased food prices in followed by followed in by 1:14:10.600 --> 1:14:14.000 a march of public employees over state layoffs. This protest, 1:14:14.120 --> 1:14:16.720 so cheered by other public workers watching from surrounding the 1:14:16.840 --> 1:14:20.479 office buildings, was dispersed by police tear gas. So like 1:14:20.600 --> 1:14:24.360 that that's that's a very sort of yeah, yeah, like 1:14:24.479 --> 1:14:26.600 we did. I mean, this is this was happening. This 1:14:26.760 --> 1:14:29.880 is happening in Peru like last year, right, actually was 1:14:29.920 --> 1:14:33.200 it last year? Was it earlier this year? I don't know. 1:14:33.320 --> 1:14:37.240 Time is fake. And that's actually like the other thing 1:14:37.280 --> 1:14:39.519 that sort of startling about this is like the places 1:14:39.560 --> 1:14:41.960 that riot are still the places that are rioting, and 1:14:42.040 --> 1:14:44.040 like it in an enormous number of cases, it's it's 1:14:44.080 --> 1:14:48.200 the same places sometimes it's the same people. Um. I 1:14:48.280 --> 1:14:51.040 think probably the most famous protests of the sort of 1:14:51.160 --> 1:14:57.679 era is it's called the caracaso I'm pronouncing nice really badly, 1:14:57.840 --> 1:15:01.080 by my apologies in Venezuela, which is reaction to a 1:15:01.160 --> 1:15:07.120 nine like increase in train and bus fairs. And there 1:15:07.160 --> 1:15:10.000 are these are like these are massive riots. Um at 1:15:10.080 --> 1:15:13.280 least a hundred and probably like a couple of thousand 1:15:13.360 --> 1:15:16.360 people are like gunned down by the army. And three 1:15:16.479 --> 1:15:20.160 years later, a relatively unknown colonel named Hugo Chavez tried 1:15:20.240 --> 1:15:24.240 to overthrow the government that had carried out the price increases. Travis, 1:15:26.000 --> 1:15:28.759 you know, Travis is better known for his other works, 1:15:30.479 --> 1:15:32.840 but he's the sort of tie between the I M. 1:15:32.920 --> 1:15:37.200 F Riots and the sort of next phase of political 1:15:37.280 --> 1:15:39.080 resistance to this stuff, which is called the antique, which 1:15:39.120 --> 1:15:42.000 is like known as the anti globalization movements in sort 1:15:42.040 --> 1:15:43.680 of the nineties and nearly two thousands. And the thing 1:15:43.720 --> 1:15:48.280 that's interesting about these things is that I don't know, 1:15:48.320 --> 1:15:50.960 the I m F rights don't go very well, like 1:15:51.120 --> 1:15:54.120 either they lose or at best, what they were able 1:15:54.160 --> 1:15:57.320 to get was like temporarily stall some of these reforms, 1:15:57.880 --> 1:15:59.599 and I say like reforms quote unquot like the serve 1:15:59.640 --> 1:16:02.040 and the olive old like slashing benefits. So they were 1:16:02.040 --> 1:16:03.679 able to pause them a bit and then they would 1:16:03.720 --> 1:16:06.519 sort of get restarted after people left the street. But 1:16:07.320 --> 1:16:09.639 in the late nineties and the thousands, people start winning 1:16:10.640 --> 1:16:13.360 um Argentina is sort of famously forced to like tell 1:16:13.400 --> 1:16:14.920 the I m F to funk off and they default 1:16:14.960 --> 1:16:17.680 on their loans. After this like enormous autonomous uprising two 1:16:17.680 --> 1:16:20.960 thousand one that like very nearly overthrows the government enforces 1:16:21.000 --> 1:16:23.680 that like five heads of state. There's the whole sort 1:16:23.720 --> 1:16:26.000 of pink tide in Latin America. The I m F 1:16:26.080 --> 1:16:27.439 gets like driven out of a bunch of countries in 1:16:27.479 --> 1:16:30.200 East Asia, and then she doesn't eight the entire world 1:16:30.200 --> 1:16:35.040 economy collapses, which it turns out is bad for everyone. 1:16:37.200 --> 1:16:39.840 And this does This does two things for our story. 1:16:40.320 --> 1:16:43.559 The first is that like countries are suddenly going broke again, 1:16:44.160 --> 1:16:46.760 and because they're like just completely broke, the I m 1:16:46.840 --> 1:16:48.600 F is just back and is able to sort of 1:16:48.720 --> 1:16:53.120 enforce programs on places like Greecent Spain. And the second 1:16:53.200 --> 1:16:55.880 thing it did was set off an enormous wave of 1:16:55.880 --> 1:16:59.639 bread riots and uprisings. And I think, like most people, 1:16:59.760 --> 1:17:02.280 if if you tell them that two eight set off 1:17:02.360 --> 1:17:04.879 like an enormous wave of like protests, they're They're immediately 1:17:04.920 --> 1:17:06.880 going to go, oh, you mean the Arab Spring And 1:17:07.200 --> 1:17:10.240 I am talking about that, But that's actually not specifically 1:17:10.240 --> 1:17:13.200 what I'm talking about here. There there's there were like 1:17:13.520 --> 1:17:16.840 immediately in twos and immediately after there was another massive 1:17:16.880 --> 1:17:18.880 wave of bread riots that every like just everyone is 1:17:18.920 --> 1:17:21.519 completely forgotten unless the thing that you do specifically is 1:17:21.600 --> 1:17:25.560 study bread riots. Um. Here here's from. Here's from the 1:17:25.920 --> 1:17:29.040 piece called a Political Economy of the Food Riot. In 1:17:29.080 --> 1:17:31.560 two thousand and seven and two, the world witnessed a 1:17:31.640 --> 1:17:33.800 return of one of the oldest forms of collective action, 1:17:33.880 --> 1:17:37.639 the food riot. Countries were protests occurred range from Italy, 1:17:37.720 --> 1:17:41.120 where pasta protests in September seven were directed at a 1:17:41.160 --> 1:17:43.360 failure at the failure of the Prodi government to prevent 1:17:43.400 --> 1:17:46.559 a thirty percent rise in the price of pasta. To Haiti, 1:17:46.600 --> 1:17:51.200 where protesters railed against presidents provolves impassive response to the 1:17:51.280 --> 1:17:53.120 doubling of the price of rice over the course of 1:17:53.160 --> 1:17:56.880 a single week. Other countries in which riots were reported 1:17:56.880 --> 1:18:04.000 including the Uzbekistan, Morocco, guianam Are, Titania, Senegal, India, Indonesia, Zimbabwe, Burkina, 1:18:04.000 --> 1:18:07.799 Fossil came Ruined, Yemen, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Mexico, and Argentina, 1:18:08.880 --> 1:18:11.760 and some commentators have estimated that thirty countries experienced some 1:18:11.840 --> 1:18:14.120 sort of fruits some sort of food protests over the period. 1:18:17.200 --> 1:18:21.120 Now we've been talking a lot about like food consumers 1:18:21.200 --> 1:18:23.400 in this because that's mostly the people who are involved 1:18:23.439 --> 1:18:27.000 in bread riots. But you know, as was happening in 1:18:27.040 --> 1:18:29.000 seventeen huntres with this sort of original stuff like this 1:18:29.080 --> 1:18:31.200 whole time this is going on, there's there's a sort 1:18:31.240 --> 1:18:34.320 of massive shift in the global food economy happening where 1:18:35.280 --> 1:18:37.479 and this has been happening for a long time now, 1:18:37.560 --> 1:18:39.439 but it's it's sort of it's been accelerating the last 1:18:39.439 --> 1:18:41.240 about half a century, which is that the number of 1:18:41.280 --> 1:18:43.200 people who are like peasants and who produced food for 1:18:43.240 --> 1:18:46.599 themselves has been massively declining, and people are getting forced 1:18:46.640 --> 1:18:52.600 into cities. And this means that there's you know, there's 1:18:52.600 --> 1:18:54.040 there's been a number of other things that have gone 1:18:54.040 --> 1:18:56.960 along with this. Uh, there's been this massive increase in 1:18:57.000 --> 1:18:59.920 like cattle production, for example, you get all these monocol 1:19:00.000 --> 1:19:04.200 yours um. And another thing I think I've mentioned before 1:19:04.479 --> 1:19:07.400 is that the World Trade organizations like Agreement on Agriculture 1:19:07.439 --> 1:19:10.680 like outlaws agricultural subsidies for the global South, but you know, 1:19:10.800 --> 1:19:13.000 the US is still allowed to have like farm subsidies, 1:19:13.040 --> 1:19:15.160 which means that you know, if when you're when you 1:19:15.280 --> 1:19:17.680 enter these free trade agreements, you get all of this 1:19:17.840 --> 1:19:20.719 like enormously cheap food from the U. S has dumped 1:19:20.760 --> 1:19:23.200 into all these other countries, and you know, if you're 1:19:23.240 --> 1:19:25.680 a Mexican farmer, suddenly you can't compete with all of 1:19:25.720 --> 1:19:27.320 this food from the US because the food from the 1:19:27.400 --> 1:19:29.400 US is cheap because the American government subsidizing it, but 1:19:29.479 --> 1:19:34.160 the Mexican government can and this just like absolutely annihilates 1:19:34.160 --> 1:19:36.559 any attempt by a country to maintain food security by 1:19:36.600 --> 1:19:39.760 like producing food for themselves. And this this sort of 1:19:39.920 --> 1:19:42.240 class of like self sufficient peasant farmers who had been 1:19:42.280 --> 1:19:44.200 you know, they support themselves by producing their own food 1:19:44.200 --> 1:19:47.600 and selling to the market. These people just can annihilated 1:19:48.240 --> 1:19:50.640 and they get forced into what's called sort of casualized 1:19:50.680 --> 1:19:54.200 labor that they you know, they the later version of 1:19:54.200 --> 1:19:55.920 this is like uber right, but that they're forcing to 1:19:55.960 --> 1:19:58.879 gig work. They're kicked out of sort of the noble economy, 1:20:00.160 --> 1:20:01.840 and you know, because they don't have sort of fixed 1:20:01.840 --> 1:20:04.840 contracts or you know, it's a lot of people are 1:20:04.880 --> 1:20:07.280 working with for no contract with with no contracts at all, 1:20:07.920 --> 1:20:11.200 they're enormously insecure. And once the people are forced into 1:20:11.200 --> 1:20:13.680 the labor market, like changes in the global economy can 1:20:13.760 --> 1:20:19.000 make them like almost immediately unable to afford food because 1:20:19.040 --> 1:20:21.640 you know, like if the less sort of economic and 1:20:21.680 --> 1:20:24.960 secure you are, the more the more you're affected by 1:20:25.000 --> 1:20:27.679 price increases. Which is obvious, but it's worth saying because 1:20:27.840 --> 1:20:30.200 it dictates a lot of like who does bread riots 1:20:31.240 --> 1:20:36.200 and yes, and so governments are not entirely like blind 1:20:36.280 --> 1:20:39.040 to this, and they're concernings that they're gonna get overthrown, 1:20:40.479 --> 1:20:42.080 and so you see a bunch of governments trying to 1:20:42.120 --> 1:20:44.200 respond with sort of price stabilization stuff. I think the 1:20:44.240 --> 1:20:47.160 most famous example of this is that like the Egyptian 1:20:47.280 --> 1:20:51.080 army like literally controls like an enormous number of easips 1:20:51.120 --> 1:20:54.920 bakeries and they like directly run them, and they directly 1:20:55.000 --> 1:20:56.439 run them, so like you control the price of bread 1:20:56.479 --> 1:20:59.400 to try to like stop revolutions from happening. But and 1:20:59.479 --> 1:21:02.800 she doesn't. Eight they just kind of stopped working. Um, 1:21:02.880 --> 1:21:05.599 here's the political economy of the food riot. Again, over 1:21:05.680 --> 1:21:07.920 the year between two thousand and seven and two eight 1:21:08.479 --> 1:21:11.240 hundred and thirty increase in the global price of maze 1:21:11.280 --> 1:21:13.840 and the sevcent increase in the price of rice, with 1:21:13.960 --> 1:21:18.960 similar price increases and soybeans and other major food commodities. Um, yes, 1:21:19.439 --> 1:21:22.240 there there are these massi food price increases, and this, 1:21:22.600 --> 1:21:24.439 you know, this does the thing that massive food price 1:21:24.520 --> 1:21:27.800 increases does. Right, there's there's and there's immediately enormous riots, 1:21:27.840 --> 1:21:31.560 and there's the cycle that happens where the protesters, you know, 1:21:31.600 --> 1:21:34.120 the protesters immediately blamed the government for the crisis, and 1:21:34.200 --> 1:21:36.680 then the government is like, well, it's actually not our 1:21:36.720 --> 1:21:40.320 fault because you know that it's happening because the things 1:21:40.360 --> 1:21:42.920 outside of our control, and the protesters are like, oh, 1:21:42.960 --> 1:21:46.040 it doesn't matter who we elect, they do the same things, 1:21:46.120 --> 1:21:49.240 and like they're both kind of right, Like the government 1:21:49.439 --> 1:21:52.080 is just like sucking these people. But it's also true 1:21:52.120 --> 1:21:53.840 that the sort of like the whole food system is 1:21:53.880 --> 1:21:57.120 designed to take like the means of food production out 1:21:57.200 --> 1:21:59.360 of the hands of like the workers who need the 1:21:59.400 --> 1:22:02.240 food and putting them in the hands of like, you know, 1:22:02.360 --> 1:22:05.439 enormous corporations and as people in places like Sri Lanco, 1:22:05.439 --> 1:22:08.360 which you're gonna talk more about later, continually emphasize like this, 1:22:08.520 --> 1:22:11.160 this food sovereignty issue is as much as a political issue, 1:22:12.320 --> 1:22:14.840 Like it's an incredibly political issue, and it's it's it's 1:22:14.920 --> 1:22:17.200 as much like what's at steak in these bread riots 1:22:17.280 --> 1:22:20.439 as the sort of imfinosterity stuff. Okay, this is probably 1:22:20.439 --> 1:22:21.639 a good place for an ad break, but I can't 1:22:21.640 --> 1:22:28.080 think of a transition. Uh yeah, you know who isn't 1:22:28.120 --> 1:22:31.519 allowed to eat is the products and services that support 1:22:31.600 --> 1:22:35.680 this podcast, all actively starving to death. So get these 1:22:35.760 --> 1:22:41.479 deals now while you still can, and we're back. So 1:22:42.960 --> 1:22:44.400 all right now we're gonna talk a little bit about 1:22:44.400 --> 1:22:46.160 the Arabs Spring. We're not gonna talk an enormous amount 1:22:46.160 --> 1:22:50.160 about it because that's the whole thing. Um. But if if, 1:22:50.240 --> 1:22:54.120 if you've been following like the stuff people have written 1:22:54.160 --> 1:22:57.720 about the Arab Spring, there's an enormous number of people 1:22:57.840 --> 1:23:00.960 who spend like a lot of their time arguing about 1:23:01.000 --> 1:23:02.880 whether or not it was actually sparked by food prices. 1:23:04.240 --> 1:23:05.920 And you know, you'll get a lot of analysts to 1:23:06.040 --> 1:23:09.080 argue that like food prices in Tunisia where the air 1:23:09.160 --> 1:23:11.400 spring starts, like, weren't really higher than normal, And what 1:23:11.520 --> 1:23:15.120 you're seeing instead is like, well, it's not actually food prices. 1:23:15.200 --> 1:23:17.080 It's just that there's a generation of people who've been 1:23:17.120 --> 1:23:20.320 farmers but like can't support themselves anymore, who've been forced 1:23:20.360 --> 1:23:23.519 into like fighting non existent wage labor in cities and 1:23:23.640 --> 1:23:26.240 like that. That is part of what's happening. But I 1:23:26.280 --> 1:23:28.599 think there's there's a sort of like fundamental misunderstanding if 1:23:28.640 --> 1:23:30.400 what causes a bread right, right, Like you know, as 1:23:30.400 --> 1:23:33.120 as you talked about like in the first episode, one 1:23:33.160 --> 1:23:36.400 of the things that causes bread riots is it's not 1:23:36.520 --> 1:23:40.000 actually necessarily the magnitude of the price increase that causes them, right, 1:23:40.960 --> 1:23:43.160 What sets What sets off bread riots is people is 1:23:43.200 --> 1:23:46.040 people feeling like they're not getting what they deserve. Now. Obviously, 1:23:46.080 --> 1:23:48.600 like if the price of bread increases, you're going to 1:23:48.640 --> 1:23:50.240 get a lot of people going like, fun, this, I 1:23:50.320 --> 1:23:52.120 work my ass off and now I can't feed my family. 1:23:52.720 --> 1:23:54.920 We deserve better in this is time to riot. But 1:23:55.320 --> 1:23:57.560 sometimes even if red prices are stable, you can you 1:23:57.600 --> 1:24:01.160 can get it. You can get a thing where everyone, like, 1:24:01.320 --> 1:24:04.160 you know, the amount of bread is bad, everything is expensive, 1:24:04.240 --> 1:24:06.719 and one day someone wakes up and just goes funk, 1:24:06.800 --> 1:24:08.599 this I deserve better and they do a bread riot 1:24:09.240 --> 1:24:11.040 and and this is the case. And you know, and 1:24:11.160 --> 1:24:13.400 when when that kind of thing is happening, right when 1:24:13.479 --> 1:24:16.160 when when you're dealing with you know what like moral 1:24:16.200 --> 1:24:18.599 economy stuff, when you're dealing with with this gap between 1:24:18.680 --> 1:24:22.680 like what people think, like like what people think their 1:24:22.760 --> 1:24:24.479 life should be versus the fact that their lives which 1:24:24.479 --> 1:24:27.639 is absolutely terrible. Even if you like decrease the price 1:24:27.720 --> 1:24:29.920 of bread, that's not actually necessarily going to like stop 1:24:30.000 --> 1:24:33.559 people from rioting. And if you look at like occupy 1:24:33.680 --> 1:24:36.080 for example, to like you know, that's also happening in 1:24:36.120 --> 1:24:39.599 this period, like what brings people there isn't necessarily strictly 1:24:39.640 --> 1:24:41.280 the price of food. It's the sense that like, yeah, 1:24:41.320 --> 1:24:43.640 I've been screwed by and I've been screwed by the 1:24:43.760 --> 1:24:46.320 ruling class, and I deserve better than this, and and 1:24:46.760 --> 1:24:49.160 this is this is what you see Indonesia. And one 1:24:49.160 --> 1:24:50.759 of the things what you see in sort of Phoenicians 1:24:50.840 --> 1:24:54.600 Syria is that like a lot of the uprisings, like 1:24:54.680 --> 1:24:56.800 they have this huge sort of rural core with with 1:24:56.880 --> 1:24:59.000 this population of the population to people who've been kicked 1:24:59.000 --> 1:25:02.400 out the agricultural sector, and you know, and like that 1:25:02.640 --> 1:25:04.920 that is a bread riot, right, And it's a bread 1:25:05.000 --> 1:25:06.360 right in the sort of double sense of like it's 1:25:06.360 --> 1:25:08.040 the people who are involved who used to be involved 1:25:08.080 --> 1:25:10.599 in in grain production and now can't be. And then 1:25:10.680 --> 1:25:13.680 also that like you know, people, people have hit the 1:25:13.720 --> 1:25:18.320 sort of expectation gap thing. And what I think is 1:25:18.360 --> 1:25:22.839 sort of interesting about this is that these bread riots, 1:25:23.080 --> 1:25:25.200 these rural bread riots, are like they're they're the closest 1:25:25.240 --> 1:25:28.000 thing we have to sort of the classical twenty century revolution, right, 1:25:28.000 --> 1:25:29.679 Like that that's one of that's the thing that causes 1:25:30.439 --> 1:25:33.320 like the twenty century revolutions are the first generation of 1:25:33.360 --> 1:25:35.240 people who are like but maybe in the first like 1:25:35.240 --> 1:25:37.920 two or three generations, people who come from the countryside 1:25:37.920 --> 1:25:40.479 into the factories of the people who do revolutions um. 1:25:40.920 --> 1:25:42.720 And but the thing is this is this is this 1:25:42.800 --> 1:25:44.720 is the century, not the twentie century. Like if you 1:25:44.800 --> 1:25:46.519 get kicked out of your farm, there's there's no job 1:25:46.560 --> 1:25:51.400 in a factory, like you're just unemployed, and you know, 1:25:51.479 --> 1:25:54.240 and this changes the dynamics of of sort of everything. 1:25:54.439 --> 1:25:57.439 And I think, okay, like people like broadly know the 1:25:57.520 --> 1:26:00.400 course of like the Arab Spring and a teen wave 1:26:00.439 --> 1:26:05.280 of uprisings, they happen, they get crushed largely. But there 1:26:05.400 --> 1:26:07.720 was another wave of these sort of riots, protests and 1:26:07.800 --> 1:26:10.680 uprisings that started in Haiti and like in eighteen over 1:26:10.800 --> 1:26:14.160 this massive field price hike. And here is a partial 1:26:14.240 --> 1:26:17.800 list of places that like people have like rioted in 1:26:18.720 --> 1:26:23.840 in large numbers since a dozen in eighteen Haiti, Sudan, Algeria, Hunduras, Chile, 1:26:24.040 --> 1:26:26.640 and Rock, Hong Kong, Iran like four times, Lebanon, like 1:26:26.720 --> 1:26:30.639 three times, Columbia, like three times. A couple of things 1:26:30.720 --> 1:26:33.360 happen in France. There was Puerto Rico, there was popular 1:26:33.439 --> 1:26:36.200 There's there was Indonesia, where in our second Ecuador one. 1:26:36.280 --> 1:26:40.240 Now there's Catalonia. Like people righted in the US there 1:26:40.280 --> 1:26:44.080 there were massive digits, roadblocks like in Canada, ukimedia Kampa 1:26:44.160 --> 1:26:45.960 went up where there was stuff. It's a culture. Like 1:26:46.040 --> 1:26:47.960 there were two different ways of protests. In India, there 1:26:48.000 --> 1:26:51.920 was like Belarus, there's Kazahstan, there's Kyrgystan, there's Usbekistan. There's Molly. 1:26:52.040 --> 1:26:54.240 There's stuff in Nigeria or stuffing o Libya, like there's 1:26:54.240 --> 1:26:56.240 stuff in Sri Lanka. We're about to get to this. 1:26:56.400 --> 1:27:00.080 This whole thing has has been happening like everywhere, and 1:27:00.120 --> 1:27:02.120 it's been intensifying the lasting the last year of like 1:27:02.200 --> 1:27:05.360 three or four years. Um, we're not basically like year 1:27:05.439 --> 1:27:07.880 four of this cycle. And and you know, obviously, like 1:27:07.960 --> 1:27:09.720 every single one of these protests has their own like 1:27:09.800 --> 1:27:13.280 local political conditions, and like a lot of these aren't 1:27:13.280 --> 1:27:14.960 even sort of loosely about the price of bread. They're 1:27:14.960 --> 1:27:17.200 just about sort of other stuff that's happening. But like 1:27:17.400 --> 1:27:19.439 like of the operations that I mentioned, like something like 1:27:19.520 --> 1:27:22.200 fifteen of them are directly about the price of food 1:27:22.400 --> 1:27:25.599 or the price of like transitive fuel. And we're gonna 1:27:25.640 --> 1:27:27.120 talk a little bit about sort of two of the 1:27:27.200 --> 1:27:30.439 most recent like protest waves. We're gonna talk about equa word. 1:27:30.439 --> 1:27:34.519 We're gonna talk about Sri Lanka because they're there are 1:27:34.560 --> 1:27:37.200 two very different kinds of protests, even though they're both 1:27:37.760 --> 1:27:41.080 kind of bread riots or at least there, I mean, 1:27:41.080 --> 1:27:43.200 they're both very much the modern equivalence of it. Um 1:27:44.320 --> 1:27:46.760 but they look very different. And there there's just I 1:27:46.800 --> 1:27:48.120 think and I don't know, I think it's like interesting 1:27:48.120 --> 1:27:52.920 reasons why. Um yeah. So so we're gonna start with, 1:27:53.000 --> 1:27:56.439 like with Sri Lanka um on. On a very basic level, 1:27:56.439 --> 1:27:59.120 of Sri Lanka has a giant balance of payments crisis. 1:27:59.800 --> 1:28:01.320 This is you know, it's just like that. This is 1:28:01.360 --> 1:28:03.880 a sort of like large scale political version of famines. Right, Like, 1:28:03.920 --> 1:28:06.640 there's plenty of food and fuel in the world, but 1:28:07.080 --> 1:28:10.320 the government sharlocket does not have dollars to buy it with. Now, 1:28:10.479 --> 1:28:13.360 the reason the government doesn't have dollars to buy fuel 1:28:13.439 --> 1:28:16.520 with is because the government is basically like an incredibly 1:28:16.560 --> 1:28:19.439 corrupt sctatorship that keeps like imputting lujury goods it didn't need. 1:28:20.160 --> 1:28:21.600 And they did a bunch of like tax breaks at 1:28:21.640 --> 1:28:23.760 rich people, and suddenly the government was broken. Everyone was 1:28:23.800 --> 1:28:25.519 like wow, how did that happen? It must have just 1:28:25.600 --> 1:28:29.880 been the pandemic and it was like no, you like 1:28:30.160 --> 1:28:32.880 you gave all the money to rich people. And then 1:28:34.680 --> 1:28:40.400 as the crisis sort of went on, um, they the 1:28:40.600 --> 1:28:45.080 government decided to ban fertilizery imports and so this just 1:28:45.160 --> 1:28:47.559 meant that people couldn't get fertilizers. So it's like farmers 1:28:47.640 --> 1:28:52.280 just didn't plant food because curious decision. Yeah, it's like 1:28:52.920 --> 1:28:54.320 it's it's one of those things you look at it. 1:28:54.400 --> 1:28:56.720 It's just like like like who thought this was a 1:28:56.800 --> 1:28:59.360 good idea? Yeah, what was the positive end of that 1:28:59.520 --> 1:29:02.880 game in here? I mean it's like the only like okay, 1:29:02.920 --> 1:29:04.960 So like I I think what they were thinking is that, like, 1:29:05.560 --> 1:29:08.040 fertilizer costs dollars, right, we're running out of dollars, so 1:29:08.080 --> 1:29:11.519 we're gonna stop people from spending their dollars like on 1:29:11.640 --> 1:29:13.280 buying this stuff so we can keep more dollars in 1:29:13.280 --> 1:29:16.400 the economy. But like, what what are you what is 1:29:16.439 --> 1:29:18.880 your long term plan here if you don't have like 1:29:19.240 --> 1:29:22.880 anything to get dollars with or and you also don't 1:29:22.920 --> 1:29:29.200 have food. So this, to the surprise of exactly zero people. 1:29:29.240 --> 1:29:31.160 Lookcept I guess the government of Sri Lanka causes a 1:29:31.160 --> 1:29:35.960 food crisis, food shortage. Um. And this is a kind 1:29:36.000 --> 1:29:38.040 of classic like this is the kind of classic like 1:29:38.160 --> 1:29:40.080 situation in which the I m F we intervene in 1:29:40.120 --> 1:29:42.280 the seventies and they're interviing now and you know this, 1:29:42.479 --> 1:29:45.960 this is a classic like struggle against this starting right, 1:29:46.000 --> 1:29:48.240 you have the ruling class blowing up the entire economy 1:29:48.320 --> 1:29:50.920 by like fueling debt money into pointlet's infrastructure projects. And 1:29:51.000 --> 1:29:53.280 now they're doing these like massive austerity measures and trying 1:29:53.280 --> 1:29:55.519 to get loans to b I MF. This is you know, 1:29:55.600 --> 1:29:57.040 this is this is this is this, this is this 1:29:57.120 --> 1:29:59.439 is this is stuff we understand that we've seen before. Um. 1:30:00.280 --> 1:30:02.439 But this is also this is also a food softigy problem, right. 1:30:02.439 --> 1:30:05.760 The SriLankan government has just completely screwed their farmers, which 1:30:05.800 --> 1:30:08.320 means you have to import even more food and and 1:30:08.520 --> 1:30:11.280 you know the result of this is months and months 1:30:11.320 --> 1:30:14.320 and months a very impressive sort of clock cross class 1:30:14.360 --> 1:30:17.880 protests with like basically every social sector in the streets. 1:30:18.840 --> 1:30:21.680 And that's both a good thing and also a thing 1:30:21.720 --> 1:30:24.880 that is kind of a mess because you know, like 1:30:24.960 --> 1:30:27.880 there's civil war. The civil war ended like less than 1:30:27.920 --> 1:30:30.080 a decade and a half ago. Right, so you have 1:30:30.120 --> 1:30:32.200 people in the streets from sectors who like do not 1:30:32.360 --> 1:30:35.479 like each other at all, and I don't know, and 1:30:36.120 --> 1:30:38.280 you know, you get the thing that happens here, right, 1:30:38.360 --> 1:30:40.400 You get these moments of like incredible solidarity and then 1:30:40.439 --> 1:30:42.679 moments of incredible like what the funk are you guys doing? 1:30:44.840 --> 1:30:46.599 And you know, like one of the things that happens 1:30:46.600 --> 1:30:49.040 a lot in these protests, like in all all protests, 1:30:49.080 --> 1:30:50.800 like this is like okay, the protests are like pre 1:30:51.000 --> 1:30:55.360 tame for literally months, right, Like it's just people doing protesting, 1:30:55.920 --> 1:30:58.760 and then I cops and and people like allied with 1:30:58.800 --> 1:31:01.840 the government start attacking their testers, at which point people 1:31:02.080 --> 1:31:04.519 like burned down the house of the ruling family. They 1:31:04.520 --> 1:31:06.679 start throwing people. I think people probably saw the videos 1:31:06.680 --> 1:31:09.599 people like throwing cars of like government ministers in the rivers, 1:31:11.360 --> 1:31:13.320 which was a good time, and like yeah, like that 1:31:13.439 --> 1:31:15.200 that stuff was, you know, a direct reaction to sort 1:31:15.200 --> 1:31:19.800 of like the government's violence. Right. Um, you know, okay, 1:31:19.920 --> 1:31:23.080 I can't give like a full, like detailed political history 1:31:23.280 --> 1:31:26.080 here because, like dear god, it is incredibly complicated and 1:31:26.120 --> 1:31:29.760 I don't understand it very well because you know, I 1:31:30.000 --> 1:31:32.760 don't study Sri Lanka. Um, if you want to go 1:31:32.800 --> 1:31:36.439 to account of this. Brohini Hensman's political dimensions of the 1:31:36.479 --> 1:31:38.519 crisis in Sri Lanka is a really good sort of 1:31:38.600 --> 1:31:41.559 like short like look at what's going on here, um, 1:31:42.600 --> 1:31:43.840 And and this is the sort of like this is 1:31:43.880 --> 1:31:45.200 you know, this is a broader trend and like all 1:31:45.280 --> 1:31:48.519 these protests right, like like every single bread right takes 1:31:48.560 --> 1:31:51.200 place in its own unique context, Like Sri Lanka, for example, 1:31:51.640 --> 1:31:53.519 Like Sri Lanka used to have the world's best and 1:31:53.640 --> 1:31:58.440 largest like mass Trotskyite party, like they were the Trotskyites 1:31:58.479 --> 1:32:00.160 is like the only place on earth the Trotskates like 1:32:00.240 --> 1:32:02.280 a real like mass political party, and they were like 1:32:02.320 --> 1:32:04.720 a part of the real political process. And then they 1:32:04.840 --> 1:32:06.840 like sold out the working class and entered a bunch 1:32:06.880 --> 1:32:09.840 of governments that like did terrible stuff. And you know, 1:32:09.880 --> 1:32:11.960 okay that that that's like a local context, doesn't happen 1:32:11.960 --> 1:32:15.759 anywhere else. But you know, every single one of these states, 1:32:16.080 --> 1:32:18.240 right is embedded in global capitalism. And that means that 1:32:18.320 --> 1:32:21.360 every state is affected by the sort of like broader 1:32:21.400 --> 1:32:23.960 economic trends and sort of beerocratic structures to hold everything together. 1:32:24.080 --> 1:32:26.160 They're affected by the i m F, the World Trade Organization, 1:32:26.240 --> 1:32:28.840 the World Bank. And the thing that this means is 1:32:28.880 --> 1:32:32.320 that the timings of uprisings and riots tend to synchronize 1:32:32.360 --> 1:32:33.840 with each other, and we actually just sort of brought 1:32:33.880 --> 1:32:36.720 her up like economic forces. And the product of this 1:32:37.120 --> 1:32:39.840 is way is these sort of like periodic ways of uprisings. 1:32:41.680 --> 1:32:43.400 And so the closest out we're gonna talk about the 1:32:43.439 --> 1:32:46.200 most recent of these. Well, it might actually not be 1:32:46.280 --> 1:32:47.880 the most recently these by the time this goes up, 1:32:49.439 --> 1:32:53.840 but yeah, yeah, we're we're gonna talk about Ecuador. Um. 1:32:54.280 --> 1:32:57.360 The situation Ecuador is very different from what's happening in 1:32:57.400 --> 1:33:02.040 Sri Lanka. The biggest difference, I guess is that instead 1:33:02.080 --> 1:33:04.280 of sort of like waiting for conditions to get bad 1:33:04.400 --> 1:33:07.200 enough that like an uprising happens like more or less spontaneously, 1:33:07.240 --> 1:33:09.320 which is kind of what happened he doesn't nineteen an Ecuador. 1:33:09.360 --> 1:33:12.240 There there's a there's a there are huge protests there, um, 1:33:12.880 --> 1:33:15.639 but they were largely spontaneous. But instead of like waiting 1:33:15.720 --> 1:33:18.240 for people were just like what if we just called 1:33:18.320 --> 1:33:22.880 one of these And by by people here, I specifically 1:33:23.000 --> 1:33:26.639 mean the Confederation of Indigenous Nationalities of Ecuador or Kona, 1:33:28.280 --> 1:33:30.760 and you know, okay, okay. As we've seen through this 1:33:30.800 --> 1:33:33.679 whole sort of thing, right like bread riots like adapt 1:33:33.720 --> 1:33:37.200 to the political organizations around them. And in Ecuador we're 1:33:37.240 --> 1:33:40.320 dealing with a quick essentially modern form political organization, which 1:33:40.360 --> 1:33:43.920 is the Indigenous Confederation. And I guess I should sort 1:33:43.920 --> 1:33:47.439 of like preface this a bit with like the specific 1:33:47.520 --> 1:33:51.360 form of indigenous confederation in in Latin America that emerges 1:33:51.400 --> 1:33:53.400 in this period is like a different thing than older 1:33:53.439 --> 1:33:56.120 ones because there have been indigenous confederation for a long time. 1:33:56.160 --> 1:33:58.680 This is like a this is this is a very 1:33:58.720 --> 1:34:03.280 specific like political thing that emerged across Latin America in 1:34:03.479 --> 1:34:06.479 in sort of the seventies, and the really really started 1:34:06.520 --> 1:34:09.240 string up in the eighties as results of like a 1:34:09.320 --> 1:34:11.280 lot of things, one of which was like how shitty 1:34:11.320 --> 1:34:13.439 the old like Marxans lends vanga groups like we're on 1:34:13.520 --> 1:34:16.599 indigenous issues. And one of the one of the groups 1:34:16.640 --> 1:34:19.160 that forms in this period is kana and Kanae is 1:34:19.240 --> 1:34:23.360 one of the world's most bilitants like indigenous federations, and 1:34:23.720 --> 1:34:26.800 since they're founding in in six they've called half a 1:34:26.880 --> 1:34:29.680 dozen uprisings against neoliberal governments, and I think I think 1:34:29.720 --> 1:34:33.120 they knocked off like three presidents, which is a pretty 1:34:33.200 --> 1:34:38.920 impressive track record. And on July two, faced with skyrocketing 1:34:38.920 --> 1:34:41.719 inflation on like basic consumer goods and a like really 1:34:41.840 --> 1:34:46.120 shitty like far right government, they stage another one um 1:34:46.240 --> 1:34:50.040 and this is another sort of I don't know. The 1:34:50.120 --> 1:34:55.160 thing is interesting about this is that it's it's part 1:34:55.280 --> 1:34:58.720 general strike, like part street protests, part riot, and part 1:34:58.880 --> 1:35:00.760 just like mass mark for the from the sort of 1:35:00.800 --> 1:35:03.559 periphery of Ecuador to the core. And by periphery and cora, 1:35:03.600 --> 1:35:05.200 I mean in the sort of metaphorical sense, like it's 1:35:05.200 --> 1:35:06.920 a bunch. It's a bunch of indigenous peasant groups from 1:35:06.920 --> 1:35:09.640 all over the country, just like marching on descending on 1:35:09.680 --> 1:35:13.120 the capital Keto. And this is a this is a 1:35:13.200 --> 1:35:15.639 complicated process like that, you know. Okay, like the left 1:35:15.680 --> 1:35:20.040 everywhere has like political divides and mostly they're kind of 1:35:20.120 --> 1:35:22.040 nonsense in a lot of way, like okay, like that 1:35:22.120 --> 1:35:24.720 there's ideological divides and this personal divides and whatever. But 1:35:24.840 --> 1:35:29.680 like Ecuador's left has has real political divides, and these 1:35:29.680 --> 1:35:33.240 aren't these aren't like sort of petty ideological like personal stuff, 1:35:33.439 --> 1:35:37.240 like they're like they were caught under the sort of 1:35:37.320 --> 1:35:41.160 previous like old like leftist, pink tight governments of Raphael Carrera. 1:35:41.320 --> 1:35:43.880 Like there are like soldiers and cops who are beating 1:35:43.920 --> 1:35:47.200 the ship out of indigenous echological protesters. And you know 1:35:47.280 --> 1:35:49.000 this means that like yeah, you know, okay, So so 1:35:49.120 --> 1:35:53.040 Carrera is like parties running for president again. Careers are running, 1:35:53.040 --> 1:35:56.000 but careers parties like running in an election, right, And 1:35:56.160 --> 1:35:57.559 you know this means it's like, yeah, okay, like maybe 1:35:57.560 --> 1:36:00.280 you're both leftist right, but you know a lot of 1:36:00.280 --> 1:36:02.160 people who are like, oh, fun, no, like I'm not 1:36:02.280 --> 1:36:03.880 voting for these guys. These are the guys who like 1:36:03.960 --> 1:36:08.320 sent the army against our anti mining protests. And so 1:36:08.520 --> 1:36:10.280 you know, the thing the thing that is interesting here 1:36:10.320 --> 1:36:14.160 is like like these protests don't even pull together the 1:36:14.320 --> 1:36:17.960 entire recordorian left. Um, there's like other stuff going on 1:36:18.040 --> 1:36:20.160 here too, like the there there's some of the unions 1:36:20.160 --> 1:36:21.960 that went on strike in nineteen, like don't go on 1:36:22.040 --> 1:36:25.000 strike this time because of some political stuff that's happening. 1:36:26.200 --> 1:36:28.280 But the thing, the thing about KNA that's really impressive 1:36:28.320 --> 1:36:31.360 is that they're still organized enough and they still like 1:36:31.400 --> 1:36:33.320 they're organized enough that they're able to just take control 1:36:33.360 --> 1:36:36.040 of parts of cities and they have a lot of 1:36:36.040 --> 1:36:38.439 allies supporters amongst the students and workers and keto. And 1:36:38.520 --> 1:36:41.200 this means that when the government makes this enormous mistake 1:36:41.360 --> 1:36:47.439 and arrests karas like kind of Newish leader. Ah okay, 1:36:47.520 --> 1:36:51.479 this guy's name. This guy's name, I guess in Spanish, 1:36:51.640 --> 1:36:57.599 it's like Leonidas is that. This guy's name is leonitis Um. 1:36:59.040 --> 1:37:02.200 He's the head of I use the Distance Federation Um 1:37:03.200 --> 1:37:06.360 and he sees a protest leader. He was protested leader 1:37:06.360 --> 1:37:08.280 in twenty nineteen. That's how we got elected to like 1:37:08.640 --> 1:37:11.200 head this organization. And they arrest him on day two 1:37:11.240 --> 1:37:14.280 of the protests. And this is a catastrophic mistake. The 1:37:14.360 --> 1:37:17.880 protests just like explode and you know, bye bye bye 1:37:17.960 --> 1:37:20.559 by like a week in. I think that the government's 1:37:20.560 --> 1:37:22.880 claiming they were doing fifty million dollars a damage a day, 1:37:23.680 --> 1:37:26.680 which I'm not actually sure I believe that because governments 1:37:27.000 --> 1:37:29.080 and corporations to this too, and they're talking about like 1:37:29.160 --> 1:37:31.320 losses from like strikes as they tend to overra emphasize 1:37:31.320 --> 1:37:33.400 how much damage has done because it makes them like 1:37:33.600 --> 1:37:35.360 look better in the press, and that makes the protesters 1:37:35.439 --> 1:37:39.320 look worse. But they they they they're able to damage 1:37:39.360 --> 1:37:43.760 like significant parts of the economy, and by June, like 1:37:43.960 --> 1:37:46.759 they kind of win. Basically, the government's forced to negotiate 1:37:46.840 --> 1:37:49.960 with them, and they don't get all of their demands, 1:37:50.040 --> 1:37:52.400 but they get price decreases for like fuel and gasoline, 1:37:52.400 --> 1:37:54.120 which is like a huge part of why this happened 1:37:54.120 --> 1:37:56.400 in the first place. They get bans on mining and 1:37:56.479 --> 1:37:59.000 drilling and indigenous and protected areas. They get like strength 1:37:59.040 --> 1:38:02.160 and price controls. They it likeal rural loan forgiveness, like 1:38:02.200 --> 1:38:05.280 interest rate decreases. They get subsidus for farmers, they get 1:38:05.320 --> 1:38:07.720 subsdues for families, they get they manage to get the 1:38:07.720 --> 1:38:10.400 government to declare a state of health emergency over COVID. 1:38:10.880 --> 1:38:14.120 It's like this is this is impressive stuff, and you know, 1:38:14.160 --> 1:38:16.400 and the other part of this is that they're like, Okay, 1:38:16.439 --> 1:38:18.240 the agreement is that we will stop protesting if you 1:38:18.280 --> 1:38:19.719 do this, and if you don't do this, we're gonna 1:38:19.760 --> 1:38:27.040 do this again. So yeah, I guess I guess my 1:38:27.320 --> 1:38:31.080 sort of wrap this up. There's there there's an American 1:38:31.200 --> 1:38:34.400 proverb that is really common amongst sort of like American 1:38:34.520 --> 1:38:39.559 China watchers, which is that I so supposedly the Chinese 1:38:39.600 --> 1:38:42.920 word for crisis is composed of two characters, danger and opportunity. 1:38:43.600 --> 1:38:45.760 And it's like not true, as likes to get at 1:38:45.760 --> 1:38:47.720 the polo logical analysis of China that that's not what 1:38:47.880 --> 1:38:51.000 that's not what the characters made. But everyone, like everyone 1:38:51.040 --> 1:38:53.760 in the US, like political stamishment, like believes this right, 1:38:55.520 --> 1:38:58.280 and you know, but like as as an analysis of China, 1:38:58.400 --> 1:39:01.320 it is completely useless. As an analysis of the US 1:39:01.439 --> 1:39:04.960 of the American psyche, it's incredibly valuable, right because this this, 1:39:05.160 --> 1:39:07.240 this is the way the American ruling class thinks. It's 1:39:07.320 --> 1:39:10.120 it's every single crisis is both a danger and an opportunity. 1:39:10.920 --> 1:39:14.200 And that's something that we in some sense also have 1:39:14.360 --> 1:39:16.200 to do because that's you know, these are the sort 1:39:16.200 --> 1:39:20.800 of situations that we're in, right, bread, riots are a 1:39:20.880 --> 1:39:23.599 thing that just they happen, Right, they will continue to happen. 1:39:23.640 --> 1:39:26.640 They have been happening for thousands of years, like presumably 1:39:26.680 --> 1:39:31.519 they will happen for thousands of more years. And there's 1:39:31.560 --> 1:39:33.400 no use sort of like either pretending that they don't 1:39:33.439 --> 1:39:36.000 happen or making these sort of moral or tactical arguments 1:39:36.040 --> 1:39:39.920 like for against them, because they just happen. And the 1:39:40.479 --> 1:39:42.880 question that we're that we're faced with is what are 1:39:42.920 --> 1:39:44.360 we actually going to do about it? Right? Are we 1:39:44.439 --> 1:39:45.840 going to set them out? Are we gonna side with 1:39:45.880 --> 1:39:47.599 the state and repressing them in the name of sort 1:39:47.640 --> 1:39:50.920 of like stamping out color revolutions, are like providing order 1:39:51.040 --> 1:39:54.160 a stability, or like protecting small businesses? Or are we 1:39:54.240 --> 1:39:56.360 going to you know, take to the streets and fight 1:39:56.400 --> 1:39:58.720 alongside them to sort of break the system that creates them. 1:39:59.600 --> 1:40:01.920 And this is the second question from here is if 1:40:01.920 --> 1:40:06.000 we're going to do this, how what what what we've 1:40:06.040 --> 1:40:08.800 seen from Ecuador in the past month or so is 1:40:08.880 --> 1:40:10.920 that if you take the fight to them and you're 1:40:10.920 --> 1:40:15.760 sufficiently organized, you can win. And that means the question now, 1:40:15.960 --> 1:40:18.240 as our food prices continued to increase, as food prices 1:40:18.280 --> 1:40:21.880 are only going to continue to increase, what are we 1:40:21.920 --> 1:40:29.320 going to do? And Yeah, that that's all I got. 1:40:29.960 --> 1:40:36.400 I have. I have a single question, yep, what are 1:40:36.520 --> 1:40:43.519 we going to do? Well? I'm kind of bummed we 1:40:43.640 --> 1:40:46.840 never brought up are good friend Pete Buddha j Edge 1:40:47.040 --> 1:40:51.760 in his uh bread his bread preci fixing ordeals? Yeah, 1:40:51.800 --> 1:40:53.240 I mean that that that that's kind of a sign 1:40:53.280 --> 1:40:57.360 of just like how kind of like I guess you 1:40:57.400 --> 1:41:00.360 could say masculalized, like our culture has been that people 1:41:00.439 --> 1:41:03.920 didn't riot over that because like that is a thing 1:41:04.280 --> 1:41:06.920 like if if if if if you said, Pete Buddha 1:41:07.000 --> 1:41:11.360 jedge back to like a late Frets village and she 1:41:11.479 --> 1:41:14.519 tries to do this thing like he does the systematic 1:41:14.600 --> 1:41:17.840 like bride bread price fixing, right, like all of these 1:41:17.880 --> 1:41:22.720 people would have been getting hit by rocks. So yeah, 1:41:22.760 --> 1:41:30.120 I do that again. Yeah, do that again. Wow, Barons, 1:41:30.520 --> 1:41:34.600 this brazen incitement. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Well that is 1:41:34.600 --> 1:41:37.200 it for us today. We love to incite things, folks. 1:41:37.520 --> 1:41:57.120 Until next time, go incite yourselves. Welcome to it could 1:41:57.160 --> 1:42:01.000 happen here. The podcast that's increasing about things that are 1:42:01.080 --> 1:42:05.160 actually kind of already happening of and today it's gonna 1:42:05.160 --> 1:42:06.599 be it's gonna be one of those. And we're talking 1:42:06.640 --> 1:42:10.639 about in the kind of the uptick in rhetoric around 1:42:10.720 --> 1:42:14.880 queer exterminationism that's happened. Most of the stuff is what 1:42:15.439 --> 1:42:21.519 this is discussions and legislative proposal and rhetoric that was 1:42:21.760 --> 1:42:25.479 really kicked off last month during Pride months, specifically because 1:42:25.520 --> 1:42:28.360 of the Rovy Wade ruling that really opened the door 1:42:28.520 --> 1:42:33.920 on a few not good possibilities. UM. But because we're 1:42:33.960 --> 1:42:37.040 gonna be talking about some more grim stuff today, we're 1:42:37.080 --> 1:42:40.640 gonna we're gonna open with something slightly more funny. Um 1:42:40.920 --> 1:42:44.520 And that's a friend of the Pod, Dr Jordan B. Peterson. 1:42:44.920 --> 1:42:48.200 UM now with with me today is is Chris and 1:42:48.560 --> 1:42:56.800 James greetings? All right, So Peterson, he got he got 1:42:56.880 --> 1:43:00.400 really mad at Elliott Page. Um and now does not 1:43:00.520 --> 1:43:04.880 really have a Twitter account. And it's pretty funny. Uh And, 1:43:04.960 --> 1:43:07.800 a few days after he was banned for continuing to 1:43:07.920 --> 1:43:11.840 miss gender Elliott Page, he released a video that can 1:43:11.920 --> 1:43:16.000 only be described as a super villain monologue um as 1:43:16.200 --> 1:43:20.120 as a part of his new partnership with Daily Wire Plus, 1:43:20.280 --> 1:43:24.760 the hit new streaming service. Um And, just because I 1:43:24.840 --> 1:43:27.800 think it's funny, We're just gonna we're just gonna play 1:43:27.840 --> 1:43:33.200 a few clips of of this of this evil supervillain 1:43:33.280 --> 1:43:37.200 monologue because it's really funny, and then it'll circle back 1:43:37.200 --> 1:43:41.519 to kind of our topic towards the end. So ah speaking, 1:43:41.680 --> 1:43:44.200 speaking a friend of the Pod, Peterson, here's here's our 1:43:44.479 --> 1:43:47.599 here's our one of the clips that's you've probably already 1:43:47.680 --> 1:43:51.400 heard if you're if you're terminally online. But it's incredibly funny. 1:43:52.280 --> 1:43:56.840 If I'm required to acknowledge that my tweet violated the 1:43:56.880 --> 1:44:02.559 Twitter rules? What rules you songs of good old, good 1:44:02.600 --> 1:44:05.080 old Peter said, You know the thing, I've always been 1:44:05.120 --> 1:44:08.320 sort of like that clip in particular, It's like, I 1:44:08.640 --> 1:44:11.639 don't know if I was trying, I don't know if 1:44:11.680 --> 1:44:15.960 I could emulate just the it's sounding like you've edited 1:44:16.000 --> 1:44:21.799 together sixteen clips. If you my tweet violated that Twitter rules, 1:44:21.840 --> 1:44:26.560 that's like it's his speech pattern is so bizarre. And 1:44:26.880 --> 1:44:30.280 also like in the the video was like nine minutes long, 1:44:30.640 --> 1:44:35.000 like proceeding that line, he explained what rule he broke 1:44:35.040 --> 1:44:39.960 around miss gendering and harassment, so like he explained the 1:44:40.040 --> 1:44:45.280 exact rule. Ah, but we always get more, Peter said, 1:44:45.280 --> 1:44:49.439 if you ask for it, yours woke moralists, we'll see 1:44:49.520 --> 1:44:58.479 who cancels. Who like funny. He's actually sneering as well. 1:44:58.560 --> 1:45:02.040 If you watched the video, like yeah, yeah, he's he is, 1:45:02.680 --> 1:45:04.720 he's he's going all in on the bit. He's doing 1:45:04.800 --> 1:45:08.720 like Ozzi Mandius but hammed up. It's it's frankly impressive. 1:45:09.200 --> 1:45:12.479 This is this one's also also a decent one. I 1:45:12.560 --> 1:45:16.960 am employing this awkward and impossible naming style because it 1:45:17.120 --> 1:45:21.880 is now apparently mandatory and and probably doing it wrong. Nonetheless, 1:45:22.360 --> 1:45:25.320 as you're doing it wrong is the whole point of 1:45:25.400 --> 1:45:28.760 what has been made mandatory. But also I'm trying to 1:45:28.800 --> 1:45:33.120 make a point. I've essentially been banned from Twitter as 1:45:33.120 --> 1:45:40.800 a consequence. I say banned, although technically I have been suspended, 1:45:41.280 --> 1:45:44.479 but the suspension will not be lifted unless I delete 1:45:44.520 --> 1:45:47.680 the hateful tweet in question, and I would rather die 1:45:47.800 --> 1:45:58.200 than do that. That means that you have a healthy 1:45:58.280 --> 1:46:01.920 relationship to the platform of Twitter. Um. There's also this 1:46:02.080 --> 1:46:04.879 this great clip of him talking about, like, I'm actually 1:46:05.000 --> 1:46:08.800 happy how my Twitter account has gone. Now Twitter is 1:46:08.840 --> 1:46:12.080 insignificant in the final analysis, and you're like, what the 1:46:12.200 --> 1:46:16.760 fund does that mean? What? What fun What final analysis 1:46:16.880 --> 1:46:20.160 are you talking about? What do you what do you mean? 1:46:20.400 --> 1:46:27.760 The final analysis analysis of what? Like? What is? Oh uh, 1:46:27.880 --> 1:46:32.040 it's it's pretty funny. There's there's two more clips from 1:46:32.120 --> 1:46:34.040 this rent that I want to do, which kind of 1:46:34.080 --> 1:46:36.120 are going to get more to the heart of our 1:46:36.200 --> 1:46:41.000 issue today. Um, They're they're not great. They actually are 1:46:41.080 --> 1:46:43.800 kind of they kind of suck. So without further ado, 1:46:43.920 --> 1:46:47.920 here's their good doctor friend. And finally with regard to 1:46:48.000 --> 1:46:52.000 the final phrase criminal physician, I must say that I've 1:46:52.080 --> 1:46:56.160 had some postcoital so to speak, regrets about that phrase. 1:46:56.880 --> 1:46:59.960 It is clearly the case that the surgical operation performed 1:47:00.120 --> 1:47:04.040 by the butchers who butchered Elliott slash Ellen was legal. 1:47:05.080 --> 1:47:11.320 So was it criminal or not? Were the operations undertaken 1:47:11.400 --> 1:47:14.679 by the fascist physicians who carried out the Nazi medical 1:47:14.760 --> 1:47:21.439 experiments legal Yes, under the laws of the time, But 1:47:21.600 --> 1:47:26.000 were they criminal? I'll leave that question up to you 1:47:26.120 --> 1:47:30.559 to answer. So that's pretty gross for a lot of reasons. 1:47:30.840 --> 1:47:34.240 Um One, the kind of historical context of using Nazis 1:47:34.320 --> 1:47:39.719 too compare to your own transphobia is a little dicey 1:47:39.920 --> 1:47:43.679 when you consider how with the Nazis did to trans 1:47:43.800 --> 1:47:48.680 people into like queer books. Like, yeah, he's advocating for 1:47:48.760 --> 1:47:55.479 the Nazi position here. Yeah, there's been so many bands 1:47:55.680 --> 1:48:00.160 on queer books this Like just in the past two years, Uh, 1:48:00.520 --> 1:48:04.479 the Library Association tracked almost six d books that were challenged, 1:48:04.479 --> 1:48:08.679 in the highest number since the organization began tracking book 1:48:08.720 --> 1:48:13.200 bands in the past twenty years. So talk talking about 1:48:13.439 --> 1:48:18.240 like the Nazi scientists, they're like you like you have 1:48:19.120 --> 1:48:22.719 is his his historical context of obviously is incredibly lacking, 1:48:22.840 --> 1:48:25.639 or he's just or he's just a grifter. I think, honestly, 1:48:25.720 --> 1:48:28.040 he's just kind of I think he's just kind of 1:48:28.120 --> 1:48:30.679 lost it. I think I don't even think he's fully 1:48:30.680 --> 1:48:34.280 a grifter. I think he's just kind of not understanding 1:48:34.320 --> 1:48:38.280 what's going on anymore. Of because you can watch like 1:48:38.360 --> 1:48:41.000 interviews and stuff where people can try to use reasoning 1:48:41.040 --> 1:48:43.000 and logic with him, and you can watch his brain 1:48:43.040 --> 1:48:45.880 start to process it. But it's just like otherwise, he 1:48:45.960 --> 1:48:49.160 just doesn't think in any sort of logical manner, put 1:48:49.360 --> 1:48:52.240 his words or his like stream of consciousness into any 1:48:52.320 --> 1:48:55.960 historical context. He just says what he wants, and he's 1:48:56.000 --> 1:48:58.400 used to people just taking that as a fact. Um, 1:48:58.520 --> 1:49:02.760 he's used to like regurgitating bad Joseph Campbell and people 1:49:02.840 --> 1:49:05.679 be like, oh, yeah, you sound smart. Would know he's 1:49:05.720 --> 1:49:11.479 actually not, he's of but man, it's it's yeah. The 1:49:11.800 --> 1:49:20.120 whole Germany Nazi scientist experimentation thing is incredibly incredibly frustrating. Um. 1:49:21.560 --> 1:49:23.799 I don't even know what else to like say about 1:49:23.960 --> 1:49:26.360 a say about that, because I mean even that that 1:49:26.479 --> 1:49:28.719 line you could focus on for a while, like compare 1:49:28.800 --> 1:49:36.120 how like the history of medical documentation of like transitis 1:49:36.320 --> 1:49:38.519 and the Nazis. How that's like such a big thing 1:49:38.720 --> 1:49:41.760 is that the Nazis destroyed so much medical research on 1:49:42.640 --> 1:49:46.840 gender transitions, losing like like decades and decades of research 1:49:46.920 --> 1:49:51.400 that we're only now starting to regain. Incredibly incredibly gross. 1:49:51.600 --> 1:49:54.000 But there's this one, one, one, last one, last clip. 1:49:54.040 --> 1:49:56.680 I wanted to play of of of our of our 1:49:56.720 --> 1:50:02.599 good doctor and are we degenerate, you know, profoundly threatening manner? 1:50:03.960 --> 1:50:06.120 I think the answer to that may well be yes. 1:50:06.920 --> 1:50:12.120 So that's not great. He really is like just advocating 1:50:12.200 --> 1:50:15.760 for the Nazi position every turn, Like, yes, he's just 1:50:15.880 --> 1:50:21.120 continuing to advocate for fascistic reasoning of fascistic views of 1:50:21.200 --> 1:50:25.240 decadence and degeneracy insomuch as it is a threat to 1:50:25.400 --> 1:50:29.320 civilization and a threat to Western society. And then he 1:50:29.400 --> 1:50:31.880 goes on in this clip to justify Russia's invasion of 1:50:32.000 --> 1:50:36.839 Ukraine because the US is helping Ukraine, which makes Ukraine 1:50:37.240 --> 1:50:41.640 degenerate by proxy, so Russia is doing a war on degeneracy. 1:50:42.360 --> 1:50:45.280 And that's like, that's his arguments, Like that's his level 1:50:45.439 --> 1:50:48.960 of logical reaciting yea, which which is funny because it's 1:50:48.960 --> 1:50:50.560 like if if you ever heard any of the like 1:50:50.760 --> 1:50:52.840 radio because every wants a while, there will be radio 1:50:52.880 --> 1:50:55.840 clips are just like Ukrainian Russian soldiers yelling at each 1:50:55.840 --> 1:50:57.439 other and it's just both of them calling each other 1:50:57.520 --> 1:51:00.800 gay over and over again. It's just like, we like 1:51:06.040 --> 1:51:13.160 bring back that level of discourse to America. Well, um, 1:51:13.800 --> 1:51:16.240 we're gonna take a quick break and then we will 1:51:16.479 --> 1:51:19.439 come back to talk about our other really close friend 1:51:19.520 --> 1:51:23.280 of the pod, uh Matthew Walsh. So stay stay tuned 1:51:23.360 --> 1:51:27.880 for that. God Okay, I have I have one question 1:51:28.000 --> 1:51:34.400 for everyone here. Um what what? How? How? Woman? What? 1:51:34.720 --> 1:51:46.080 What is? What is that featherless biped? Okay, behold. So 1:51:46.600 --> 1:51:50.720 when we're talking about Matt Walsh, obviously, last month he 1:51:50.920 --> 1:51:57.200 released a pretty poorly made transphobic documentary that was basically 1:51:57.240 --> 1:51:59.639 just a clipse of him getting owned by like actual 1:51:59.720 --> 1:52:05.920 doctor there for not understanding like basic ontology and medical reasoning. Um, 1:52:06.080 --> 1:52:09.519 the documentary was just uh. Other friend of the po, 1:52:09.720 --> 1:52:13.800 JK Rolling, just expressed support for the documentary. So if 1:52:13.840 --> 1:52:16.880 that's if that's on an indicator that like turfism is 1:52:16.960 --> 1:52:20.559 just like a direct preamble to open fascism. I don't 1:52:20.600 --> 1:52:23.479 know what is because I mean, Matt. Matt Walsh jokingly 1:52:23.560 --> 1:52:26.360 describes himself as a fascist, but that's because his his 1:52:26.840 --> 1:52:29.760 beliefs actually are fascistic. Like he said, it's one of 1:52:29.800 --> 1:52:33.000 those jokes that only is funny because everyone agrees on 1:52:33.080 --> 1:52:35.360 the central premise, like it's it's that, it's that, it's 1:52:35.400 --> 1:52:39.360 that type of humor. Um so like J. K. Rowling 1:52:39.439 --> 1:52:44.519 just endorsing an open fascist. So I'm not going to 1:52:44.600 --> 1:52:47.160 talk about the documentary in depth here because it's not 1:52:47.360 --> 1:52:49.400 that good and it doesn't really make any points that 1:52:49.479 --> 1:52:51.640 need to be refuted. It it talks about how like 1:52:52.400 --> 1:52:57.880 it talks about how how puberty blockers are um sterilization 1:52:58.880 --> 1:53:03.720 uh drugs, which is not the case long term when 1:53:03.760 --> 1:53:06.240 you're on them, Yes you cannot, you cannot do that 1:53:06.280 --> 1:53:10.280 because it's obviously inhibiting your your hormones. But once you 1:53:10.320 --> 1:53:13.920 go off puberty blockers you can procreate again, which which 1:53:13.960 --> 1:53:16.160 also I just want to take a second here to 1:53:16.400 --> 1:53:18.800 to look at this position, which is that, Okay, so 1:53:18.920 --> 1:53:22.120 puberty blockers are sterilization things, right, I like, okay, so 1:53:22.280 --> 1:53:24.479 this is the arguments and sterilization, right, Who are you 1:53:24.600 --> 1:53:29.040 giving puberty blockers to children? Why the fuck do you 1:53:29.280 --> 1:53:31.640 care well like children, and it's like, wait, I mean 1:53:31.640 --> 1:53:34.320 they arguing it's like that, but it'll make them, it'll 1:53:34.360 --> 1:53:39.439 make them permanently sterilized, like like you're castrating these kids 1:53:39.600 --> 1:53:41.800 by giving them pumanity blockers, which no, that's not how 1:53:41.920 --> 1:53:44.600 that works. You're you're just arguing in bad faith. It 1:53:44.600 --> 1:53:46.479 doesn't matter. But anyway, I don't want to talk about 1:53:46.840 --> 1:53:51.000 documentary in length because it's not interesting enough to talk about. 1:53:52.120 --> 1:53:54.960 But this the documentary real quick? Is this the one 1:53:55.000 --> 1:53:57.160 way he like goes to like quote unquote the country 1:53:57.160 --> 1:54:04.920 of Africa asks people translates extremely racist. Yeah, great to 1:54:04.960 --> 1:54:09.479 see j k Rowling, like known non racist lining up. Yeah, 1:54:09.680 --> 1:54:12.839 like behind the descentitist tropes of African creator the creator 1:54:13.080 --> 1:54:22.040 Kingsley shackle Bolt. Yeah, just the most cringe. Yeah, that's 1:54:22.080 --> 1:54:26.080 what we call a rich white woman moment um. Yes, 1:54:26.720 --> 1:54:29.479 all right, So but we are to talk about some 1:54:29.600 --> 1:54:32.000 other things Matt Walt has been doing, specifically how he 1:54:32.040 --> 1:54:38.880 has increased exterminationist rhetoric into his discussions around trans people. 1:54:39.800 --> 1:54:43.560 So we're open to talking about de transition ers. So 1:54:44.560 --> 1:54:49.120 the vast majority of real de transitions, which are very rare, 1:54:49.160 --> 1:54:51.920 like there's very few of them, especially considering there's already 1:54:52.200 --> 1:54:56.400 very few numbers of trans people but like or something, Yeah, 1:54:56.520 --> 1:55:00.200 it's it's it's very very few. Um But the vast 1:55:00.240 --> 1:55:02.120 majority of people who do make the choice to de 1:55:02.200 --> 1:55:08.560 transition are usually due to experiencing aggressive transphobia. Um and 1:55:08.840 --> 1:55:11.000 and the idea of the de transition or has been 1:55:11.040 --> 1:55:13.720 inflated and used as a straw man to attack the 1:55:13.720 --> 1:55:16.880 trans community just by and large, with with many documented 1:55:16.960 --> 1:55:21.320 cases of turfs or far right activists creating like fake 1:55:21.360 --> 1:55:24.480 stalk Papa accounts pretending to be de transition ers to 1:55:24.600 --> 1:55:28.520 write horrifying but fictional stories that that that happens a lot. 1:55:28.600 --> 1:55:31.879 There's a really famous case on Reddit of an alleged 1:55:31.960 --> 1:55:33.960 de transition er who has found out to just be 1:55:34.200 --> 1:55:38.400 like an alt right troll. Um And this all really 1:55:38.440 --> 1:55:42.480 sucks because the people who do de transition because they 1:55:42.520 --> 1:55:45.240 realize it's just not for them are generally pretty rad 1:55:45.360 --> 1:55:48.680 people who continue to be very much pro trans because 1:55:49.000 --> 1:55:51.840 they do understand the fluid nature of gender and gender 1:55:51.880 --> 1:55:56.200 expression through this entire process. Like but and anyways, when 1:55:56.320 --> 1:56:00.320 quote tweeting an alleged de transition or expressing regret medical 1:56:00.360 --> 1:56:04.600 decisions that they made, Matt Walsh said this quote, we 1:56:04.720 --> 1:56:08.800 can't just oppose the transition of children. Yes, that's particularly evil, 1:56:09.080 --> 1:56:11.400 but it's also evil to do it to anyone of 1:56:11.600 --> 1:56:15.640 any age. This young woman was nineteen, a legal adult 1:56:15.840 --> 1:56:19.280 when she was mutilated. Does that make it okay? Obviously not. 1:56:19.960 --> 1:56:22.960 Put it another way, it should be illegal for doctors 1:56:23.040 --> 1:56:26.200 to do this to anyone of any age. It should 1:56:26.200 --> 1:56:29.640 be illegal for anyone of any age to transition period. 1:56:31.000 --> 1:56:35.400 So this demonstrates the jump from no one's like that, 1:56:35.560 --> 1:56:38.040 that the rhetoric of no one should transition until they're 1:56:38.080 --> 1:56:40.839 an adult, to no one should be allowed to transition 1:56:40.960 --> 1:56:44.600 at all. And it came just as quickly as the 1:56:44.680 --> 1:56:47.920 trans community was telling you it would. This This jump 1:56:48.160 --> 1:56:50.640 is not a big one. It is very easy to 1:56:50.760 --> 1:56:55.440 say no no hormones until you're eighteen to saying no 1:56:55.960 --> 1:56:59.960 no hormones at all, um. And that's that's what we're 1:57:00.080 --> 1:57:05.080 entering into. Walsh's rhetoric is increasingly exterminationist, um and eliminationist, 1:57:05.240 --> 1:57:08.400 just saying that, like his all of his preferred policies 1:57:08.720 --> 1:57:12.160 would result in the total prohibition of trans identity and 1:57:12.240 --> 1:57:16.240 the criminalization of any gender firm in care. Um. These 1:57:16.520 --> 1:57:19.680 people are fundamentally opposed to having any agency of your 1:57:19.720 --> 1:57:23.400 own body, whether that's hormones, whether whether that's abortion, right, Like, 1:57:23.800 --> 1:57:26.120 all of these people get mad just when they see 1:57:26.240 --> 1:57:30.400 someone with colored hair, Like they don't like someone's ability 1:57:30.480 --> 1:57:33.000 to have bodily autonomy. That's there, that's one of their 1:57:33.080 --> 1:57:36.320 core politics. And you see this a lot, especially when 1:57:36.320 --> 1:57:39.240 it comes to like trans men, because there's this notion 1:57:39.880 --> 1:57:43.680 that there that their bodies exist in service of SIS 1:57:44.160 --> 1:57:46.680 straight men, right, and anything that gets in the way 1:57:46.720 --> 1:57:49.000 of that is an attack on SIS men in general 1:57:49.320 --> 1:57:52.720 and all the patriarchal society. It's like very very very 1:57:52.800 --> 1:57:56.600 much like regular misogyny, but with an added bonus of transphobia. 1:57:57.160 --> 1:58:00.600 Conservative activist Christopher Ruffo made a tweet a few days 1:58:00.600 --> 1:58:03.800 ago with a picture of Elliott Page pre transition, with 1:58:03.880 --> 1:58:07.360 the caption that says, this is what they took from you, right. 1:58:07.440 --> 1:58:11.880 It's it's like this notion that their bodies belong to 1:58:12.120 --> 1:58:16.280 you assists man, and by them choosing to change their 1:58:16.320 --> 1:58:19.360 bodies as they see fit, that's an attack on their 1:58:19.440 --> 1:58:23.960 body's access to you. Um, it's it's it's it's it 1:58:24.120 --> 1:58:26.440 redes a whole bunch of misogyny. Does. It does a 1:58:26.440 --> 1:58:31.200 whole bunch of really bad transphobia. Um, it's a really 1:58:31.240 --> 1:58:34.080 gross package, but it it It hits on a lot 1:58:34.160 --> 1:58:38.040 of points of like this type of patriarchal conservative brain. 1:58:40.000 --> 1:58:41.920 And I think this this this even carries out into 1:58:42.040 --> 1:58:46.720 like hatred of trans women, as you know, as trans 1:58:46.800 --> 1:58:50.200 women are seen as predators, so they hate trans women 1:58:50.400 --> 1:58:53.480 to protect siss women, right, like you it's all of 1:58:53.520 --> 1:58:55.920 this like possession, right, It's it's it's this possession of 1:58:56.360 --> 1:58:58.960 the body of a female, so you need to protect 1:58:59.040 --> 1:59:02.280 it against the creepy trans women. Right, It's like it's 1:59:02.440 --> 1:59:05.280 it's all of this idea of like owning women's bodies 1:59:05.760 --> 1:59:08.760 is central to a lot of these ideas of transphobia. 1:59:09.360 --> 1:59:13.160 So we're gonna see a lot more stuff about how 1:59:13.760 --> 1:59:16.640 it's going to change from no hormones, no transition until 1:59:16.640 --> 1:59:19.880 you're eighteen, to no hormones, no transition until you twenty five, 1:59:20.000 --> 1:59:23.320 to no hormones and no transition at all. This past year, 1:59:23.360 --> 1:59:26.320 we've seen many proposed felony healthcare bands for trans youth. 1:59:26.880 --> 1:59:29.480 Um said bills have passed in multiple states like Alabama, 1:59:29.600 --> 1:59:32.920 which means that it's going to forcibly de transition teens 1:59:32.960 --> 1:59:35.960 across the state. In Missouri, there's a similar bill in 1:59:36.040 --> 1:59:39.720 the works titled the Save Adolescence from Experimentation Act Um, 1:59:39.800 --> 1:59:43.440 which currently applies to individuals younger than eighteen, but Missouri 1:59:43.920 --> 1:59:46.920 physicians and healthcare providers under the bill would be prevented 1:59:46.960 --> 1:59:49.480 from recommending gender firm in care to patients who are 1:59:49.560 --> 1:59:52.560 under eighteen, and there's already been discussion in legislative sessions 1:59:52.800 --> 1:59:55.920 to extend the bill past the age of eighteen. While 1:59:56.000 --> 1:59:58.800 debating the bill, seeking to restrict access to gender firm 1:59:58.880 --> 2:00:02.920 and care, so lawmakers suggested that the medical interventions like 2:00:03.000 --> 2:00:07.440 hormones be withheld from transgender and non barinary individuals until 2:00:07.920 --> 2:00:10.960 they're twenty five years old. And during a public hearing 2:00:11.200 --> 2:00:15.920 for the House Bill to six nine, a psychologist, Lorie 2:00:16.000 --> 2:00:18.600 Hayes testified that she believes in adults under the age 2:00:18.640 --> 2:00:22.240 of twenty five are unable to fully comprehend the traumatic 2:00:22.360 --> 2:00:26.440 and drastic and irreparable quote unquote changes to their bodies 2:00:26.560 --> 2:00:29.480 that will they will undergo if they receive gender affirming 2:00:29.520 --> 2:00:33.880 medical treatments like puberty blockers and hormone therapies also will testifying, 2:00:34.280 --> 2:00:37.920 hay Is uh the psychologist said that she supported conversion therapy. 2:00:38.240 --> 2:00:43.720 So that's surprising too, nobody, Uh, or it shouldn't be. 2:00:44.240 --> 2:00:46.680 It also takes those people to the point where they're 2:00:46.720 --> 2:00:51.240 not necessarily edigible for their parents healthcare. Right, So, like 2:00:51.440 --> 2:00:53.480 I think twenty six is the time when you can 2:00:53.760 --> 2:00:56.080 do when your to you age out. Yeah, so it's 2:00:56.520 --> 2:01:00.720 it's again like it's a backdoor like prohibition on transitioning 2:01:00.800 --> 2:01:03.680 for other people. Yeah, yes, it's it's just trying to 2:01:03.720 --> 2:01:05.840 stop it at all. It's you can't you can't take 2:01:05.880 --> 2:01:09.280 their word for it. They just they just don't want 2:01:09.320 --> 2:01:12.840 you around. That's it. Like they want you to to 2:01:13.320 --> 2:01:15.280 kill yourself. They or they want you just to go 2:01:15.440 --> 2:01:18.360 away or not be tread like that's that's that's what 2:01:18.520 --> 2:01:22.920 they want. It's obviously I'm gonna do a few just 2:01:24.760 --> 2:01:28.320 Journal of American Medical Associations found the gender affirming healthcare 2:01:28.360 --> 2:01:31.080 include including puberty blockers and hormones between the ages of 2:01:31.160 --> 2:01:35.840 thirteen and twenty, was associated with lower odds of moderate 2:01:35.920 --> 2:01:39.960 or severe depression and seventie lower odds of suicidality. Now. 2:01:40.000 --> 2:01:42.920 They study published last year by the Trevor Project found 2:01:42.960 --> 2:01:46.360 that among transgender non binary miners hormone therapy associated with 2:01:46.440 --> 2:01:50.560 nearly lower odds of recent depression and suicide attempts. So 2:01:50.960 --> 2:01:52.640 they just want to ban the things that make you 2:01:52.760 --> 2:01:56.320 more likely to live, right. They just don't want you around. 2:01:56.560 --> 2:02:03.360 That's the actual message. So back back to just kind 2:02:03.360 --> 2:02:06.880 of extra speaking of just not wanting you around. UM 2:02:07.800 --> 2:02:10.680 that we're gonna do some updates on Protect Texas Kids. 2:02:11.360 --> 2:02:16.760 The extremely open, extremely transphobic, openly Christian fascists that there 2:02:16.760 --> 2:02:19.920 are words not mine group based in Texas who organized 2:02:19.920 --> 2:02:24.600 a lot of events to harass either drag shows or 2:02:24.680 --> 2:02:30.800 harass Pride events last month. It's leader Kelly Needered. I'm 2:02:30.800 --> 2:02:33.840 gonna that's what I'm gonna say it, um tweeted a 2:02:33.960 --> 2:02:37.200 few weeks ago. Quote let's start rounding up people who 2:02:37.280 --> 2:02:42.720 participate in Pride events. I wonder what she means by that. 2:02:44.120 --> 2:02:47.560 I wonder, I wonder what. I wonder what that means. 2:02:47.760 --> 2:02:50.120 Surely doesn't mean she just wants to kill all gay people. 2:02:50.680 --> 2:02:55.840 Oh oh it does, okay, um And another tweet from 2:02:55.880 --> 2:02:59.760 the main Protect Texas Kids account was today's protest went. 2:03:00.600 --> 2:03:03.040 No children seemed to be in the drag show, but 2:03:03.120 --> 2:03:06.000 there were a bunch of adults wearing mouse ears and 2:03:06.120 --> 2:03:09.000 watching the men dressed up as Disney princesses dance around 2:03:09.600 --> 2:03:14.520 totally normal and not weird. Right, So it's obviously not 2:03:14.600 --> 2:03:17.800 about protecting kids, right, Like, it's they that's not the focus. 2:03:18.120 --> 2:03:20.040 That's not even that's not the focus of their tweet. 2:03:20.080 --> 2:03:22.520 That's not the focus of what they want, right, Protecting 2:03:22.640 --> 2:03:26.560 kids quote unquote is a cheap excuse just to want 2:03:26.680 --> 2:03:29.840 to hate gay people and want gay people to go away. 2:03:30.000 --> 2:03:32.560 That's that's all. That's all it is. We've been like, 2:03:32.680 --> 2:03:37.400 it's we're kind of retrunning the same ground here, but man, 2:03:37.560 --> 2:03:40.320 it's it's so it is still frustrating how many people 2:03:40.360 --> 2:03:42.920 like fall for the bit it's not. It's not not 2:03:43.000 --> 2:03:45.440 about protecting kids, not about saving kids from groomers. You 2:03:45.440 --> 2:03:48.920 can look at all of the sexual abuse in Evangelical churches, 2:03:49.040 --> 2:03:53.120 Catholic churches, it's Christian summer camps. Whatever, it's not it's 2:03:53.120 --> 2:03:55.640 not about protecting kids. They don't give a single fuck. 2:03:56.320 --> 2:03:59.840 It's about wanting gay people to go away. Now. But 2:04:00.040 --> 2:04:03.680 with Kelly Needers and protect Texas Kids accounts, which they 2:04:03.800 --> 2:04:06.520 used to organize their Christian fascist events, both of those 2:04:06.600 --> 2:04:09.560 got banned in mid June Kelly has got banned for saying, 2:04:09.640 --> 2:04:12.280 let's start rounding up people who who participate in Pride events. 2:04:13.080 --> 2:04:17.920 But this, this extends beyond Texas, extends beyond Twitter dot com. Right, 2:04:18.600 --> 2:04:20.920 Obviously these people were just using Twitter to organize, so 2:04:20.960 --> 2:04:23.400 it are already stended out into the real world. But 2:04:23.440 --> 2:04:25.240 it's not it's it's not It's not just Texas either. 2:04:25.920 --> 2:04:29.280 See I think it's A congressional candidate Mark Burns, who 2:04:29.400 --> 2:04:33.160 is a pro Trump pastor, was running for South Carolina 2:04:34.080 --> 2:04:37.640 House district. He called for the execution of LGBTQ and 2:04:37.680 --> 2:04:42.480 trans people by using grooming rhetoric, and then he laid 2:04:42.520 --> 2:04:46.400 out exactly how executions could legally be done. So this 2:04:46.480 --> 2:04:49.760 type of like state enforced a genocide. Let's let's play this. 2:04:49.960 --> 2:04:55.640 Let's play clip. The lgbt transgender grooming our children's minds 2:04:55.960 --> 2:04:59.880 is a national security threat because it is ultimately the 2:05:00.080 --> 2:05:04.120 zigon to destabilize the republic we called the United States 2:05:04.320 --> 2:05:07.280 of America. That's why when I'm elected, I don't want 2:05:07.280 --> 2:05:10.240 to just vote. I want to start holding people accountable 2:05:10.560 --> 2:05:13.840 for treason to the Constitution. I am going to push 2:05:13.920 --> 2:05:18.840 to reenact WHUAC. WHOAC is the House of an American 2:05:19.080 --> 2:05:22.520 Activities Committee. It was a real committee that was formulated 2:05:22.560 --> 2:05:25.040 back in the fifties, and it's a committee that we 2:05:25.080 --> 2:05:28.400 should re enact that starts holding these people accountable for treason. 2:05:28.600 --> 2:05:30.880 You need to hold people for treason, start having some 2:05:31.000 --> 2:05:34.919 public hearings, and start executing people who are found guilty 2:05:35.360 --> 2:05:39.000 for their treasonous acts against the Constitution of the United 2:05:39.000 --> 2:05:42.280 States of America, just like they did back in seventeen 2:05:42.360 --> 2:05:47.080 seventy six. You know what, South Carolina, this is our guy. 2:05:50.160 --> 2:05:52.960 It was an amazing the way he misspoken called it 2:05:53.080 --> 2:05:56.680 the House off on American Activities. It's like a fun place. 2:05:58.200 --> 2:06:07.320 So that's not ideal, is it? Of that kind of stuck. Yeah, 2:06:07.440 --> 2:06:11.160 that was really out there. He's yeah, kid advocating. It's 2:06:11.200 --> 2:06:14.400 just it's just it's mainstream. It's trying. They're trying to 2:06:14.520 --> 2:06:19.560 mainstream the political ability to advocate genocide, right, and some 2:06:19.720 --> 2:06:22.080 of them it's not some of them, it's not fully 2:06:22.120 --> 2:06:25.160 catching on yet. Right, It's we're on the on ramp 2:06:25.280 --> 2:06:28.960 to this um. The South Carolina pastor was defeated by 2:06:29.000 --> 2:06:33.520 the incumbent Representative William Timmins in the GOP primary for 2:06:33.600 --> 2:06:38.040 the state's fourth congressional district. But Pastor Mark Burne's still 2:06:38.120 --> 2:06:43.360 received of the vote, So that's still a lot of people. 2:06:43.480 --> 2:06:45.680 That's still a lot of people voting for that, and 2:06:46.520 --> 2:06:49.760 that number, I don't think it's gonna shrink. Yeah, and 2:06:49.800 --> 2:06:51.600 like and it's also it's also worth doing that, like 2:06:51.840 --> 2:06:55.640 everyone loses him, Like it is so unbelievably hard to 2:06:55.680 --> 2:06:59.640 beat an incumbent in Yeah, i'mory, Like it's just it's yeah, 2:06:59.720 --> 2:07:03.760 so like even even if he was just a normal 2:07:03.880 --> 2:07:06.600 guy with like regular politics, you would have lost the election. 2:07:06.840 --> 2:07:11.120 So still, yeah, it's not actually a referendum on his popularity, 2:07:11.240 --> 2:07:15.360 like the popularity of what you're saying, it's percent of 2:07:15.400 --> 2:07:18.600 the vote. Yeah, it's worth noting that. Like even here 2:07:18.680 --> 2:07:21.240 in southern California, right where it's supposedly like very liberal, 2:07:21.320 --> 2:07:25.040 we had a candidate for sheriff's office who is that 2:07:25.440 --> 2:07:28.240 was a deputy city attorney and was endorsed by the 2:07:28.440 --> 2:07:33.200 Union Tribune just openly spewing like transphobic groom of stuff 2:07:34.240 --> 2:07:38.560 yeah a public meetings and getting endorsed by the local newspaper. 2:07:38.600 --> 2:07:40.840 They were rescinded their endorsement later. But this isn't just 2:07:40.920 --> 2:07:43.440 like a red state thing. If people think that that 2:07:43.680 --> 2:07:45.680 is that No, that's obviously there'd be a lot more 2:07:45.720 --> 2:07:48.480 common the people who run for sheriff, who generally tend 2:07:48.560 --> 2:07:54.560 to be more conservative because they're running for sheriff. Yea true. 2:07:55.520 --> 2:07:58.040 All right, Well, let's let's have an add break and 2:07:58.080 --> 2:08:02.400 then we'll come back to talk about Wait, talk about 2:08:02.480 --> 2:08:07.800 Roe v. Wade and the attack on future rights, including 2:08:07.800 --> 2:08:10.480 the ability to have same sex relationships. Oh wow, what 2:08:10.640 --> 2:08:13.360 a fun time we have today. All right, we are 2:08:13.560 --> 2:08:17.000 we are back. So after the Supreme Court overturned a rov. 2:08:17.080 --> 2:08:20.240 Wade last month, there was an immediate push for anti gain, 2:08:20.280 --> 2:08:24.760 anti trans legal challenges using the same legal logic against 2:08:24.800 --> 2:08:28.280 the right to privacy based off of the the traditions 2:08:28.440 --> 2:08:32.880 deeply rooted in our nation's history quote unquote. So this 2:08:33.120 --> 2:08:36.440 was like undoubtedly gonna happen, right, we've been We've been 2:08:36.880 --> 2:08:39.800 proposing that this was a possibility for a while, but 2:08:39.920 --> 2:08:43.360 it was definitely made worse by Justice Clarence Thomas front 2:08:43.360 --> 2:08:46.680 of the Pod, who argued in a concurring opinion that 2:08:46.800 --> 2:08:50.520 the Supreme Court should quote reconsider its past rulings quodifying 2:08:50.680 --> 2:08:53.520 rights such as the right to use contraception, the right 2:08:53.680 --> 2:08:56.760 to have a same sex relationship, and same sex marriage. 2:08:57.240 --> 2:09:01.840 Invoking Griswold, Lawrence and Oberfeld, three cases having to do 2:09:02.000 --> 2:09:05.680 with americans fundamental right to privacy, due process, and equal protection, 2:09:06.080 --> 2:09:09.520 Thomas wrote, quote, we have a duty to correct the 2:09:09.880 --> 2:09:16.600 error regarding these established in those precedents, which pretty grim, 2:09:17.040 --> 2:09:22.040 pretty grim framing there, because that's a bad sign um, 2:09:22.680 --> 2:09:25.120 and we are already seeing stuff like this in effect. Actually, 2:09:25.200 --> 2:09:26.840 we don't need to wait for the Supreme Court to 2:09:26.920 --> 2:09:30.800 make rulings states that are starting to do this exact thing. Uh. 2:09:30.960 --> 2:09:34.400 In an ongoing Alabama lawsuit that cites dabs overturning Roe v. 2:09:34.560 --> 2:09:39.880 Wade about medically detransitioning all trans teenagers, there is this 2:09:40.160 --> 2:09:43.400 deeply threatening turn of phrase quote, no one adult or 2:09:43.560 --> 2:09:46.920 child has the right to transitioning treatments not deeply rooted 2:09:46.960 --> 2:09:51.640 in our nation's history and tradition. Ha ha, interesting how 2:09:51.680 --> 2:09:54.839 they put adult or child there? Isn't that isn't that intriguing? 2:09:55.120 --> 2:09:57.360 And it's also fun and how the deeply red our 2:09:57.480 --> 2:10:00.240 nation's history thing is now just sort of like here 2:10:00.320 --> 2:10:02.200 here is the word that you say to let you 2:10:02.240 --> 2:10:04.040 do fascism, And it's like oh, hey, do you know 2:10:04.120 --> 2:10:05.920 what it is deeply rooted in our in our nation's 2:10:06.040 --> 2:10:10.880 uh traditional history, shooting congressman. This is the thing that 2:10:10.960 --> 2:10:13.440 has been done many times, like I mean again, like 2:10:13.520 --> 2:10:15.040 like this, it's like like this is this is the 2:10:15.080 --> 2:10:17.480 whole like this whole thing. It's just like it's it's 2:10:17.640 --> 2:10:20.280 so the whole thing is it's so incredibly sort of 2:10:20.400 --> 2:10:23.640 nakedly transparent and cynical and like this is you know, 2:10:23.760 --> 2:10:25.480 it's it's a centerd fascist thing, right. We're like we're 2:10:25.480 --> 2:10:27.120 going to create some sort of mythical past and then 2:10:27.160 --> 2:10:30.120 we're gonna like resurrect whatever fucking things existed back then. 2:10:30.160 --> 2:10:32.200 It's like, oh, hey, what actually existed back then? I 2:10:32.240 --> 2:10:34.040 don't know. People try to kill the government all the time. 2:10:34.520 --> 2:10:36.880 They're really they're really playing from like the lower Keith 2:10:36.960 --> 2:10:43.160 t traditionalist framework here. Um, They're they're doing all the 2:10:43.200 --> 2:10:47.400 bits we thought they would do. It's not great. Uh. 2:10:47.640 --> 2:10:50.839 Late last month, during the end of Pride, Texas Republican 2:10:51.120 --> 2:10:55.080 Party unveiled it's updated official position on lgbt Q issues, 2:10:55.200 --> 2:11:01.120 definding homosexuality as quote an abnormal lifestyle choice unquote and 2:11:01.280 --> 2:11:07.600 also opposing quote all efforts to validate transgender identity. The 2:11:07.640 --> 2:11:10.120 party's new official stance on lgbt Q issues wasn't veiled 2:11:10.200 --> 2:11:13.760 during Pride Month and as advocates fight against record number 2:11:13.760 --> 2:11:16.800 of anti lgbt Q bills introduced in states across the 2:11:16.840 --> 2:11:20.120 country this year, more than three hundred and forty bills, 2:11:20.200 --> 2:11:23.280 according to the Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest lgbt 2:11:23.400 --> 2:11:26.560 Q advocacy group on the legal front. Thousands of Republican 2:11:26.600 --> 2:11:30.520 activists met at the party's biennial convention in Houston in 2:11:30.640 --> 2:11:33.080 mid June to agree to the party's platform on a 2:11:33.200 --> 2:11:37.680 range of issues, including the rejection of the election results 2:11:38.720 --> 2:11:43.360 and a call to a repeal the nineteen Voting Rights Act, 2:11:45.360 --> 2:11:49.560 which was in acted to prevent discrimination against black voters. Ah, 2:11:50.400 --> 2:11:52.960 this is I would say this is a mask off moment, 2:11:53.080 --> 2:11:54.840 but they've never had the mask on in the first 2:11:55.240 --> 2:11:58.240 People like, that's that's like that that's specific one. That 2:11:58.400 --> 2:12:01.960 is a thing, like like half of the Republican Party's 2:12:02.000 --> 2:12:04.600 platform has been people suing about the Voting Rights Act 2:12:04.720 --> 2:12:08.200 exact exactly. It's not actually a mask off. It's just 2:12:08.280 --> 2:12:10.320 that they're doing it louder than they were doing it before. 2:12:11.960 --> 2:12:17.520 The section titled Homosexuality and Gender issues, UM had the 2:12:17.680 --> 2:12:20.360 party stating that LGBTQ people should have no legal protection 2:12:20.400 --> 2:12:24.480 from discrimination and in fact suggested intent to ensure people's 2:12:24.480 --> 2:12:27.640 ability to do hate speech and hate crimes. Part of 2:12:27.800 --> 2:12:31.840 the forty page resolution reads, quote, homosexuality is an abnormal 2:12:31.920 --> 2:12:34.960 lifestyle choice. We believe there should be no granting of 2:12:35.000 --> 2:12:38.680 special legal entitlements or creation of special status for homosexual behavior, 2:12:39.040 --> 2:12:42.240 regardless of state of origin. And we oppose any criminal 2:12:42.400 --> 2:12:47.200 or civil penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction, 2:12:47.640 --> 2:12:56.840 or belief in traditional values. Ha. I just I just 2:12:56.920 --> 2:12:59.200 want to put it on the record here that like 2:12:59.440 --> 2:13:01.480 the number of a number of my friends who have 2:13:01.560 --> 2:13:06.560 been attacked like in the last three months is it's 2:13:06.600 --> 2:13:10.320 a lot. I got, I got called I got, I 2:13:10.440 --> 2:13:12.320 got called a faggot for the first time in the 2:13:12.360 --> 2:13:16.320 Straights of Portland a few months ago. It's it's, it's, 2:13:16.440 --> 2:13:19.400 it's it's it's it's accelerating, it's it's going, it's it's 2:13:19.480 --> 2:13:23.280 it's going. Um. But yeah, I mean, specifically, I think 2:13:23.440 --> 2:13:26.400 a lot of this, the last part of that resolution 2:13:26.480 --> 2:13:29.680 there about you know, opposing any civil penalty is against 2:13:29.680 --> 2:13:31.800 those who oppose homosexuality out of faith. I think that's 2:13:31.840 --> 2:13:35.600 that's probably definitely a referencing Steadfast Baptist Church, the church 2:13:35.720 --> 2:13:40.640 that just opens that openly advocates the genocide of queer people, 2:13:41.240 --> 2:13:43.560 which we've talked about in our in our last City 2:13:43.600 --> 2:13:46.080 of Hate episode. I think I think they're also trying 2:13:46.080 --> 2:13:50.480 to go back to like the whole like cake bullshit thing. 2:13:50.960 --> 2:13:54.760 Oh yeah, obviously stuff like that. It's like, it's we honestly, 2:13:54.880 --> 2:13:57.520 we are so past the cake problem now because now 2:13:57.600 --> 2:14:01.240 they just want to know there's murder. They just wanted 2:14:01.280 --> 2:14:03.600 to like mass, they just want to do mass. Gend 2:14:03.640 --> 2:14:08.120 as side, like, I'm so overcakes. Like and in the 2:14:08.200 --> 2:14:11.640 trend of increasing the age barrier of gender affirming healthcare 2:14:11.680 --> 2:14:15.240 into adulthood, the Texas Republicans called for the ban of 2:14:15.360 --> 2:14:19.240 gender affirming healthcare, including the distribution of huberty blockers or 2:14:19.240 --> 2:14:23.560 hormone supressing therapies and the UH and the performance of 2:14:23.640 --> 2:14:26.840 gender affirming surgeries to anyone under the age of twenty one. 2:14:27.280 --> 2:14:29.880 So that is the new Texas Republican official position is 2:14:29.920 --> 2:14:32.280 that these things should be banned UH for under the 2:14:32.320 --> 2:14:34.920 age of one. And that's not a that's not a 2:14:35.000 --> 2:14:37.600 hard cap. They're gonna keep raising that cap as often 2:14:37.640 --> 2:14:40.320 as they can, and as proof, I will offer up 2:14:40.560 --> 2:14:44.240 the past thirty five minutes an episode, like everything we've 2:14:44.280 --> 2:14:46.840 said in the past thirty five minutes is supporting the 2:14:46.920 --> 2:14:53.440 opinion that that cap they wanted to go up. Yeah. Uture. 2:14:53.480 --> 2:14:57.280 They also simultaneously advocate for like heterosexual relationship age of 2:14:57.360 --> 2:15:00.920 consent to just dromp oh yeah, like twelve years old. 2:15:01.440 --> 2:15:06.160 Yeah um. Speaking of speaking of Texas, near the end 2:15:06.200 --> 2:15:10.880 of June, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, who sent us 2:15:10.920 --> 2:15:13.880 office home in the celebration of the overturning of Roe v. Wade, 2:15:14.400 --> 2:15:18.520 said that he will defend Texas anti sodomy law. It's 2:15:18.560 --> 2:15:22.480 a Supreme Court revisit's lawrence view Texas. I'm gonna play 2:15:23.200 --> 2:15:27.680 extremely frustrating clip here, here's a fun time. I'm sure 2:15:27.720 --> 2:15:31.280 you read uh Justice Thomas's concurrence where he said that 2:15:31.560 --> 2:15:34.680 there were a number of other of these issues grizz wald, 2:15:35.240 --> 2:15:38.680 uh lawrence and ogofell that he felt needs to be 2:15:39.120 --> 2:15:43.640 looked at again. Obviously, the lawrence case came from Texas. 2:15:43.840 --> 2:15:48.080 That was the what outlawed sodomy? Would you, as Attorney 2:15:48.160 --> 2:15:52.560 general be comfortable defending a law that once again outlawed 2:15:52.600 --> 2:15:57.680 sodomy that questioned Lawrence again, or Griswold, or gay marriage 2:15:58.120 --> 2:16:00.560 that came from the state legislature to put to the test. 2:16:00.600 --> 2:16:03.840 With Justice Thomas said, yeah, I mean, there's all kinds 2:16:03.880 --> 2:16:07.040 of issues here, but certainly the Supreme Court has stepped 2:16:07.080 --> 2:16:09.760 into issues that I don't think there was any constitutional 2:16:09.800 --> 2:16:13.240 provision dealing with. They were legislative issues, and this is 2:16:13.360 --> 2:16:15.440 one of those issues, and there may be more. So 2:16:15.840 --> 2:16:18.040 it would depend on the issue and depending on what 2:16:18.160 --> 2:16:21.800 state law it says at the time, And just just 2:16:22.360 --> 2:16:24.320 for the sake of time here, you wouldn't rule out 2:16:24.440 --> 2:16:27.120 that if the state legislature passed the exact same law 2:16:27.240 --> 2:16:31.000 that that Lawrence overturned on sodomy, you wouldn't have any 2:16:31.040 --> 2:16:33.640 problem then defending that and taking that case back to 2:16:33.720 --> 2:16:37.400 the Supreme Court. Yeah. Look, my job is defend state 2:16:37.520 --> 2:16:39.960 law and I'll continue to do that. That is my 2:16:40.120 --> 2:16:45.800 job into the Constitution, and I'm so First of all, 2:16:46.240 --> 2:16:50.000 in this clip of Kenpacton, he looks like a zombie. 2:16:53.920 --> 2:16:56.680 I don't know what's going on with his face, but 2:16:56.879 --> 2:17:03.160 his ECUs twitching in a way that looks really uncanny. 2:17:03.440 --> 2:17:05.880 He looks like he like, look at look at this 2:17:05.959 --> 2:17:09.680 man's face, Look at what is going on. That's an 2:17:09.760 --> 2:17:14.280 unfortunate pause. No, he looks aet in motion too. It's 2:17:14.320 --> 2:17:19.560 not an unfortunate pause. He just looks. There is something 2:17:19.680 --> 2:17:22.160 going wrong with Ken Paxton. We need you to the 2:17:22.200 --> 2:17:25.720 bottom of this. But also all of that stuff about 2:17:25.920 --> 2:17:31.560 make enforcing laws against sodomy, making gay sex illegal, they 2:17:31.560 --> 2:17:34.520 don't want gay people to find because what they're actually saying, um, 2:17:35.879 --> 2:17:38.240 and if you do, they want to send you to jail. Um. 2:17:39.040 --> 2:17:42.760 So that's something that Ken Paxton wants wants to do 2:17:43.560 --> 2:17:47.360 um wrapped in very flowery language about defending the laws 2:17:47.560 --> 2:17:52.040 on record, that laws that you are enforcing, therefore you're 2:17:52.120 --> 2:18:00.280 making the laws in effect. Um ha. So one one 2:18:00.320 --> 2:18:01.720 aspect of this that I want to touch on again 2:18:01.800 --> 2:18:04.360 before we close out in our in Our City of 2:18:04.440 --> 2:18:07.480 Hate episodes about the Christian fascists in Dallas attacking drag 2:18:07.520 --> 2:18:11.720 shows and Steadfast Baptist Church, and even in some of 2:18:11.720 --> 2:18:13.600 the stuff that we've gone over in this episode, right, 2:18:13.840 --> 2:18:18.720 there's a lot of talk about like government approved extermination um, 2:18:18.760 --> 2:18:23.400 whether that be like for treason, for Unamerican acts, executions 2:18:23.440 --> 2:18:27.040 based off Biblical law, rounding up people for degenerate or 2:18:27.120 --> 2:18:32.760 deviant behavior, arresting doctors for performing gender affirming surgeries. There's 2:18:32.800 --> 2:18:35.960 there's a lot of like talk around, like the government's 2:18:36.360 --> 2:18:44.080 ability to legally gen side people. Um. But the other 2:18:44.160 --> 2:18:46.800 aspect of this is like the vigilante justice angle of 2:18:46.959 --> 2:18:51.440 people wanting to just do physical violence themselves. And there's 2:18:51.440 --> 2:18:53.160 a way that these two things can intersect in a 2:18:53.240 --> 2:18:56.680 really interesting way. I'm gonna play one one last clip here. 2:18:57.480 --> 2:19:01.600 You know some teachers pushing X values on your third grader. 2:19:01.640 --> 2:19:03.320 Why aren't you going to thrash the teacher talk to 2:19:03.360 --> 2:19:06.840 an orongal person's kids about sex in kindergarten? You get 2:19:06.920 --> 2:19:09.320 beaten up. You should be beaten up. Please. If I 2:19:09.520 --> 2:19:12.800 was a parent and my fifth grade daughter had had 2:19:12.879 --> 2:19:16.040 to sleep and shower in some kind of cabin at 2:19:16.120 --> 2:19:18.360 some summer camp that I paid money to send my 2:19:18.480 --> 2:19:21.560 child to, and there was a man calling himself a 2:19:21.640 --> 2:19:24.320 woman sleeping in her cabin, my husband would have beat 2:19:24.360 --> 2:19:26.640 him into the ground. Where are the men actually standing 2:19:26.720 --> 2:19:29.160 up against these men who think they are women that 2:19:29.240 --> 2:19:31.760 are trying to compete in these females. Sports shouldn't put 2:19:31.840 --> 2:19:34.600 up with it anymore. You need to intervene. You need 2:19:34.640 --> 2:19:37.040 to show up to the sporting like this is not happening. Actually, 2:19:37.200 --> 2:19:40.440 there is almost nothing that can be done. Uh that 2:19:40.959 --> 2:19:43.000 is uh, that is over the line to stop that. 2:19:43.040 --> 2:19:45.280 It's disgusting. There was a time in this country of 2:19:45.520 --> 2:19:48.040 just a little more decency where if someone even voiced 2:19:48.080 --> 2:19:49.959 the idea of taking your kid to a drag show 2:19:50.360 --> 2:19:53.240 to be arrested, they are underqualified to have children. They 2:19:53.240 --> 2:19:55.920 should have their children taken away from them because it's 2:19:55.959 --> 2:20:00.280 child abuse. So that's a lot of stuff, but rent 2:20:00.320 --> 2:20:03.360 you know, it fluctuates between talking about people taking this 2:20:03.480 --> 2:20:05.440 into their own hands in a very like obviously like 2:20:05.680 --> 2:20:10.200 misogynistic and transphobic way. Again, it's about like the access 2:20:10.400 --> 2:20:14.680 to you know, protecting access to the feminine body um, 2:20:16.000 --> 2:20:18.240 and then a lot of other stuff around, you know, 2:20:18.480 --> 2:20:21.640 the government arrested people and try it's about it. It's 2:20:21.640 --> 2:20:24.960 a mix between like doing stuffy yourself, you know, in 2:20:25.040 --> 2:20:28.760 a form of like the vigilante um um or you know, 2:20:29.200 --> 2:20:32.960 eventually advocating for the for the government's ability to do this. Now, 2:20:33.120 --> 2:20:35.520 we we've covered a number of incidents of like a 2:20:36.160 --> 2:20:40.920 violence or of things that that we're escalating to the 2:20:41.040 --> 2:20:44.760 point of that right before it stopped. UM. Across you know, 2:20:44.959 --> 2:20:48.120 the Dallas area, we talked about stuff in Boise, Idaho 2:20:48.240 --> 2:20:51.360 with Patriot Front. We talked about the Proud Boys who 2:20:51.440 --> 2:20:54.680 stormed the library outside of San Francisco. UM, I think 2:20:54.760 --> 2:20:57.040 those are in our in our I think I talked 2:20:57.040 --> 2:20:59.320 about most of those across a few of the city 2:20:59.320 --> 2:21:03.800 of haid episode. UM. Then we have uh there's but 2:21:03.879 --> 2:21:07.200 there there is other incidents outside of just those cities. UM. 2:21:07.640 --> 2:21:11.360 In Atlanta, a youth justice group was forced to cancel 2:21:11.440 --> 2:21:14.280 their rally in support of trans rights after an organizer 2:21:14.640 --> 2:21:19.680 received a specific quote vulgar death threat. In Calama, Washington, 2:21:19.760 --> 2:21:22.280 a school was put on lockdown after an anti transit 2:21:22.320 --> 2:21:26.680 student threatened a mass shooting following a broad student walkout 2:21:26.720 --> 2:21:29.960 in support of a trans classmate who had been assaulted. UM. 2:21:30.959 --> 2:21:35.000 People graffited pervs work here on an elementary school in 2:21:35.200 --> 2:21:38.600 Venture County, California, following a local right wing papers story 2:21:38.640 --> 2:21:42.160 about a third grade teacher who affirmed a trans students 2:21:42.320 --> 2:21:45.200 name and pronouns. In the lead up to Pride Month, 2:21:45.240 --> 2:21:50.160 and anti LGBTQ activist named Ethan Schmidt Crockett vowed to 2:21:50.520 --> 2:21:53.600 hunt gay people and trans people and their allies at 2:21:53.760 --> 2:21:57.760 target stores um following the story's decision to celebrate Pride. 2:21:57.840 --> 2:22:00.600 He made the same threat a month before. In June, 2:22:00.720 --> 2:22:03.039 he attended the counter protest of a pro gun control 2:22:03.120 --> 2:22:05.400 March of Our Lives demonstration carrying an a R fifteen. 2:22:06.200 --> 2:22:09.240 In Kiel, Wisconsin, schools are forced to shut down and 2:22:09.360 --> 2:22:12.560 go virtual after bomb threats were made in response to 2:22:12.560 --> 2:22:16.200 the district's investigation of anti trans harassment by three students. 2:22:17.840 --> 2:22:20.520 Something I've been thinking about a lot the past few 2:22:20.560 --> 2:22:25.560 weeks is that even before Roevwade was overturned, multiple states 2:22:25.680 --> 2:22:28.760 enacted laws for like vigilante bounty hunters to do the 2:22:28.800 --> 2:22:32.080 work of the state that the state wasn't legally allowed 2:22:32.120 --> 2:22:36.080 to do yet like directly right, And so they were 2:22:36.160 --> 2:22:39.960 getting regular people to combat and intimidate providers into not 2:22:40.080 --> 2:22:43.560 doing abortion procedures. And we're already seeing an increase in 2:22:43.600 --> 2:22:47.039 physical attacks targeting queer people. And I think many more 2:22:47.320 --> 2:22:50.560 regular people are waiting for the state government's permission to 2:22:50.600 --> 2:22:52.760 do the same thing. We don't need to wait for 2:22:52.800 --> 2:22:56.840 the Supreme Court to say gay sex can be made illegal, right. 2:22:57.200 --> 2:23:00.720 States can already start doing this stuff now. And there's 2:23:00.720 --> 2:23:03.120 already people waiting in the wings, and as soon as 2:23:03.200 --> 2:23:05.960 they get to go ahead, they will jump at this opportunity. 2:23:06.560 --> 2:23:10.520 I'm gonna play one final clip that is pretty pretty grim. 2:23:12.160 --> 2:23:16.040 I just said a man tell me in public that 2:23:16.240 --> 2:23:21.480 he can't wait until he's legally able, until he's legally 2:23:21.520 --> 2:23:32.080 able to hunt me. Now, I had a man in 2:23:32.440 --> 2:23:43.400 public he can't wait until he can legally hunt us down. 2:23:47.600 --> 2:23:53.120 This is not okay. This is not okay. So that 2:23:53.280 --> 2:23:56.400 was a queer person who lives in Oklahoma talking about 2:23:56.440 --> 2:24:02.160 something that happened to them last month. M and I 2:24:02.280 --> 2:24:05.240 try to when I make these episodes, I try to 2:24:05.280 --> 2:24:07.119 not just lay out a whole bunch of bad things 2:24:07.120 --> 2:24:09.760 to be like, here's a problem, all right by everybody, 2:24:09.879 --> 2:24:13.440 like because that sucks, but also I don't know what 2:24:13.560 --> 2:24:18.680 the solution here is, because this sucks. Of The California 2:24:18.720 --> 2:24:22.640 House and Senate just passed bill uh S B one 2:24:22.720 --> 2:24:26.279 oh seven. This bill would provide many protections for families 2:24:26.600 --> 2:24:29.760 fleeing states like Texas and Alabama. It would protect them 2:24:29.800 --> 2:24:33.280 from extradition, from out of state investigations and from out 2:24:33.320 --> 2:24:38.320 of state custody judgments based on providing gender affirming healthcare. 2:24:38.760 --> 2:24:41.000 The bill is currently in review by the California Committee 2:24:41.000 --> 2:24:43.080 on Appropriations, and then it would need to be signed 2:24:43.160 --> 2:24:46.440 by the governor. If your state doesn't have a trans 2:24:46.959 --> 2:24:50.680 sanctuary law on the docket, maybe it's time to ask 2:24:50.680 --> 2:24:53.920 your representative about that. UM, preferably maybe when they're like 2:24:54.040 --> 2:24:58.080 out at dinner or at church. UM. But also like 2:25:00.920 --> 2:25:04.320 even getting to the point where we're making plans to 2:25:04.440 --> 2:25:06.880 flee to other states, when trans people are forced to 2:25:06.920 --> 2:25:10.320 make plans to flee out of country, when you're investigating 2:25:10.920 --> 2:25:13.640 what kind of citizenship you can get based on your 2:25:13.680 --> 2:25:19.640 ancestral family history. Once we're at that point, it's really hard, 2:25:20.080 --> 2:25:24.320 like it's it's and in my discussions with queer friends 2:25:24.440 --> 2:25:27.280 the past few like the past few weeks, we've been 2:25:27.320 --> 2:25:30.120 having more and more conversations about that, more and more 2:25:30.200 --> 2:25:35.320 plans about when things really do fully breakdown, where do 2:25:35.440 --> 2:25:37.960 we go what do we do? Like and it sucks 2:25:37.959 --> 2:25:40.800 because there's so many people who live in states like Oklahoma, 2:25:40.920 --> 2:25:44.360 like Texas right where that's people's homes, that's where that's 2:25:44.360 --> 2:25:46.680 where these queer people are living, and they shouldn't be 2:25:46.760 --> 2:25:51.320 forced to leave like they that that shouldn't happen. And 2:25:51.480 --> 2:25:53.720 we have great folks like the Elm Fork John Brown 2:25:53.800 --> 2:25:55.800 Gun Club, to think, are providing a really good example 2:25:56.200 --> 2:25:58.920 of how queer people can work together to start doing 2:25:59.000 --> 2:26:02.200 community defense your own areas. Uh to say no, this 2:26:02.320 --> 2:26:04.959 is our home too, and we're gonna fucking walk around 2:26:04.959 --> 2:26:08.480 with rifles to defend it if we have to. Um. Obviously, 2:26:08.520 --> 2:26:11.560 not everyone mentally is able to do that, right, but 2:26:11.680 --> 2:26:16.480 there's there's there's other ways to get in, get more 2:26:16.560 --> 2:26:20.200 connected to your local community, to strengthen like queer areas 2:26:20.400 --> 2:26:23.600 inside you know states where these things are happening. The 2:26:23.680 --> 2:26:25.360 other thing I see a lot with queer people that 2:26:25.440 --> 2:26:29.600 makes me really sad is that fighting the state right, 2:26:29.800 --> 2:26:33.440 fighting these types of big homophobic institutions who want to 2:26:33.520 --> 2:26:37.520 kill us, that's hard and scary. We feel so powerless. 2:26:37.720 --> 2:26:40.080 We we want to feel like we have any agency, 2:26:40.120 --> 2:26:41.640 want to feel like we have any power at all, 2:26:41.959 --> 2:26:44.480 because there's so many people with power who are hurting us, 2:26:44.920 --> 2:26:47.520 and it's hard to actually fight back against those. But 2:26:47.640 --> 2:26:49.960 we feel powerless, so we want to feel like we're able. 2:26:50.280 --> 2:26:53.680 So instead we turn on other people who are within 2:26:53.720 --> 2:26:57.200 our own communities because it's easier to attack people who 2:26:57.680 --> 2:27:00.040 are like us. It's it's it's it's easier to to 2:27:00.320 --> 2:27:02.120 to do to do that, right, it still gives you 2:27:02.160 --> 2:27:05.800 a sense of having agency. But they're trying to murder 2:27:05.920 --> 2:27:10.040 us all like personally disagreements on politics or whatever aside, 2:27:10.120 --> 2:27:13.520 Like it would be really nice if we stop just 2:27:14.160 --> 2:27:18.120 doing nonsense fighting with each other and doing dumb like 2:27:18.879 --> 2:27:22.720 click drama, dumb discourse like they're trying to they're trying 2:27:22.760 --> 2:27:25.480 to kill us. Can we not? Can we not do that? 2:27:26.120 --> 2:27:28.199 I know you want to find some way to push 2:27:28.280 --> 2:27:30.200 back on something so you feel like you have an 2:27:30.240 --> 2:27:33.720 ability to do anything. And doing it against the police, 2:27:33.760 --> 2:27:37.200 doing against your state governments, doing it against the Supreme Court, 2:27:37.400 --> 2:27:39.720 that's much harder, right, It's easier to do it against 2:27:39.840 --> 2:27:42.280 you know, a friend of yours or someone who used 2:27:42.320 --> 2:27:48.400 to be friends with that's so much easier. But that's 2:27:48.600 --> 2:27:53.280 not helping in their attempts to just do genocide. So 2:27:53.680 --> 2:27:57.280 I think making plans to get out of where you are, 2:27:57.360 --> 2:28:02.240 if you have to, making plans is necessary. Sometimes I've 2:28:02.400 --> 2:28:04.880 I've thought of this, I've been even me in the 2:28:04.920 --> 2:28:08.240 Pacific Northwest have had have have had many thoughts about that. 2:28:09.120 --> 2:28:13.960 It's also very important to start strengthening your relationships with 2:28:14.080 --> 2:28:17.280 other queer people in your communities and starting to put 2:28:17.360 --> 2:28:21.880 together ways to work with them. UM, to make a 2:28:21.959 --> 2:28:24.800 show for uce and say hey, we're here, We're not 2:28:24.879 --> 2:28:27.720 gonna we're here to stay right now. You can't you 2:28:27.760 --> 2:28:30.280 can't scare us out right now, because there needs to 2:28:30.320 --> 2:28:34.360 be some way to combat it, because these people they're 2:28:34.400 --> 2:28:39.240 trying to do they're trying to be regressive right like there, 2:28:39.800 --> 2:28:42.200 we are already at a point that we progressed far 2:28:42.360 --> 2:28:45.680 enough that there. They are scared of how much progress 2:28:45.720 --> 2:28:47.480 has happened, so they're trying to turn the clock back. 2:28:48.120 --> 2:28:51.160 Our challenge is to keep the change coming and push 2:28:51.280 --> 2:28:53.640 back against these people who are trying to hold on 2:28:53.840 --> 2:28:56.840 to the dead twentieth century. Right. The fear of change 2:28:56.959 --> 2:28:59.560 and the fear of the future is driving their return 2:28:59.640 --> 2:29:02.440 to the asked, we don't need to just run away, 2:29:02.560 --> 2:29:05.200 because we should. We should be winning this fight in 2:29:05.320 --> 2:29:09.520 some ways because we already hold We already hold the 2:29:09.600 --> 2:29:12.400 ground that they want to take away from us. So, yeah, 2:29:12.600 --> 2:29:16.800 bad stuff is coming, but just because bad things happened 2:29:16.800 --> 2:29:18.680 in history doesn't mean they need to happen again, like 2:29:19.040 --> 2:29:22.720 we there is ways to intervene to stop this, UM, 2:29:23.520 --> 2:29:27.840 should you keep your passports renewed? Yes, you obviously should. Um, 2:29:28.640 --> 2:29:31.600 But we don't just need to run away because we 2:29:31.720 --> 2:29:35.000 actually have ground to stand on here. So yeah, and 2:29:35.320 --> 2:29:36.880 I think I think one thing is also important to 2:29:36.879 --> 2:29:39.760 remember is that the people who got us here we're 2:29:39.800 --> 2:29:44.520 facing way way worse solids than we are. Yeah, people 2:29:44.520 --> 2:29:48.520 who had to do this. Yeah, And so like, like 2:29:48.680 --> 2:29:51.520 the job that we have is incredibly intimidating, it is 2:29:51.560 --> 2:29:53.520 also easier than the stuff that has already been done. 2:29:54.640 --> 2:29:59.200 We already we already got to this point facing extremely 2:29:59.280 --> 2:30:04.440 harsh condition and we already got there. Um. I don't know, 2:30:04.560 --> 2:30:07.600 it's just it's always struggling to try to find ways 2:30:07.720 --> 2:30:09.600 to think about this that gives you a little bit 2:30:09.680 --> 2:30:12.959 of like, you know, it's just like it's so easy 2:30:13.000 --> 2:30:14.560 to be a duomer. It's so easy just to say 2:30:14.600 --> 2:30:16.600 we're all funk, we all need to move away. That's 2:30:16.640 --> 2:30:20.480 the simple solution. But there's most simple things are also 2:30:20.720 --> 2:30:24.680 usually incomplete and wrong. So just trying to find other 2:30:24.720 --> 2:30:27.680 ways to think about this problem. Because we don't need 2:30:27.720 --> 2:30:30.880 to tell for people to run away, um, and you 2:30:31.000 --> 2:30:34.160 don't need to tell them they have to fight either. Um. 2:30:34.959 --> 2:30:37.360 You know, people can make their own decisions and offer 2:30:37.440 --> 2:30:42.680 their own resources and start operating in a network that 2:30:42.959 --> 2:30:47.160 helps the survival of all of us and increasingly challenging times. 2:30:48.240 --> 2:30:50.960 And I should also say, like non queer people like, 2:30:52.160 --> 2:30:54.680 look that the defining characteristic at this moment is that 2:30:54.760 --> 2:30:57.800 there is a silent, silent majority that supports crew rights. Yeah, 2:30:57.879 --> 2:31:01.600 and if if the the the the the only way 2:31:01.760 --> 2:31:04.200 that we actually lose this is if is if that 2:31:04.280 --> 2:31:07.640 majority does nothing. But if that, if that majority moves, 2:31:07.800 --> 2:31:09.720 if this is people who actually believe in this stuff, 2:31:09.720 --> 2:31:12.560 and if the non queer people who actually believe that 2:31:12.600 --> 2:31:13.920 we should have rights and we should be able to 2:31:13.959 --> 2:31:16.760 live our lives do stuff, we will fucking crush these people. 2:31:16.920 --> 2:31:19.320 They will be remembered as a fucking grain of dust 2:31:19.760 --> 2:31:21.840 in the sand that was crushed by the tide of history. 2:31:22.640 --> 2:31:25.120 And we can do that. We can destroy them. We can, 2:31:25.200 --> 2:31:27.280 we can, we can, we can make it for we 2:31:27.320 --> 2:31:30.800 can make this moment in history a incredibly brief blip 2:31:30.920 --> 2:31:32.560 where people are like, oh, hey, that was wasn't it 2:31:32.560 --> 2:31:35.120 weird when homophobia came back for like three years and 2:31:35.160 --> 2:31:38.520 then it was just gone again. That that that that 2:31:38.640 --> 2:31:42.080 is in our power. We just have to do it yep, 2:31:42.720 --> 2:31:50.040 all right, well, strength and community relations. Stop stop doing 2:31:50.640 --> 2:31:53.360 nonsense in fighting for no good reason because you want 2:31:53.400 --> 2:31:57.560 to feel powerful, put that effort into actually finding the 2:31:57.560 --> 2:31:59.160 people that are trying to hurt you, or put that 2:31:59.240 --> 2:32:07.600 effort into making friends. That does it for us today. 2:32:08.080 --> 2:32:11.480 That was my episode on the increase in queer extermination. 2:32:11.560 --> 2:32:31.440 Is um um Yeah, see you on the other side. Hello, 2:32:31.560 --> 2:32:35.160 and welcome to it could happen here a podcast about 2:32:35.240 --> 2:32:39.080 things that could happen, or, in today's case, are about 2:32:39.240 --> 2:32:42.240 to happen. I want to talk to you today about 2:32:42.280 --> 2:32:45.760 the Friendship Park, which exists between San Diego and Tijuana. 2:32:46.959 --> 2:32:49.400 If you haven't spent time at the border, it's difficult 2:32:49.440 --> 2:32:53.000 to understand how, despite getting bigger and uglier every year, 2:32:53.520 --> 2:32:57.440 it feels at once omnipresent and non existent. Friendship Park 2:32:57.520 --> 2:32:59.760 was always one of the places where the boarder loomed, 2:33:00.040 --> 2:33:02.160 but it never quite managed to beat out the tremendous 2:33:02.200 --> 2:33:04.959 feelings of goodwill you could experience there on a Saturday morning, 2:33:05.600 --> 2:33:08.119 on a piece of sand next to a steel fence 2:33:08.760 --> 2:33:12.800 that demarcates the end of the United States. Boarders exist 2:33:12.920 --> 2:33:16.120 to control us, not to protect us, and it is 2:33:16.160 --> 2:33:19.240 never more apparent than it was at Friendship Park, where 2:33:19.280 --> 2:33:23.200 you could watch grandparents meeting grandkids, dreamers checking in with 2:33:23.280 --> 2:33:27.680 their parents. A Friendship Park, half century old institution that 2:33:27.720 --> 2:33:30.160 allowed family divided by the border to meet across the 2:33:30.280 --> 2:33:34.760 French The borders certainly didn't make anyone feel safer, but 2:33:35.240 --> 2:33:37.640 over time, people who had never set foot on the 2:33:37.720 --> 2:33:40.840 two miles of sand and Imperial Beach that many families 2:33:40.879 --> 2:33:44.360 walked across weekly to be together made laws that would 2:33:44.360 --> 2:33:46.600 make it even harder for those families to be together. 2:33:48.000 --> 2:33:51.280 For decades, the park was the only places mixed immigration 2:33:51.320 --> 2:33:55.360 status families could come together. People flew from across the 2:33:55.520 --> 2:33:57.480 US to meet relatives who are trying to make the 2:33:57.520 --> 2:34:01.240 crossing north to join their friends and loved ones. It 2:34:01.320 --> 2:34:03.680 was an emotional place, but most of the time it 2:34:03.760 --> 2:34:06.360 was a happy place. You could see kids having parties 2:34:06.400 --> 2:34:09.320 on the Mexican side, and sometimes concerts would take place 2:34:09.440 --> 2:34:11.800 with the band split between two countries, with playing one 2:34:11.879 --> 2:34:15.840 tune on the Tijuana side, the fences covered in murals. 2:34:16.800 --> 2:34:19.320 At moments it felt like a small victory over the 2:34:19.360 --> 2:34:23.960 pointless cruelty that happens here on a daily basis. The 2:34:24.080 --> 2:34:28.440 park itself was opened by pat Nixon in At the time, 2:34:28.560 --> 2:34:30.560 she said, I hope there won't be a fence here 2:34:30.600 --> 2:34:34.240 too long. Since then, the US government has built a 2:34:34.320 --> 2:34:38.200 secure fence in the nineteen nineties under Bill Clinton, then 2:34:38.240 --> 2:34:42.120 are supposedly more secure fence following nine eleven. Then it 2:34:42.160 --> 2:34:47.440 built the secondary wall. In two thousand nine, gate was 2:34:47.480 --> 2:34:50.520 installed to allow people to enter at certain times on 2:34:50.600 --> 2:34:53.960 weekends and meet their families, separated by just one barrier. 2:34:55.360 --> 2:34:58.720 Now there are plans to replace that secondary war by 2:34:58.800 --> 2:35:01.440 building a thirty ft wall under the pretense that the 2:35:01.480 --> 2:35:05.040 current structure is unsound. This new wall made it a 2:35:05.080 --> 2:35:08.480 Trump design, but built under Biden's instruction, will not have 2:35:08.600 --> 2:35:11.840 a gate, and the last place in the country that 2:35:12.000 --> 2:35:16.800 families could touch and heal will be gone forever. Customs 2:35:16.840 --> 2:35:20.040 and Border Protection blocked access to Friendship Park in February. 2:35:21.600 --> 2:35:24.320 Have you reigned? That year fourth State officials to temporarily 2:35:24.400 --> 2:35:27.640 closed border Field State Park, the larger park in which 2:35:27.680 --> 2:35:32.800 Friendship Path is nestled. Since then, Border patrol has not 2:35:33.000 --> 2:35:36.480 opened the gate that lets people unite briefly with their families, 2:35:37.280 --> 2:35:39.840 they claim, and influx of migrants has prevented them from 2:35:39.879 --> 2:35:42.680 having the staffing required to open the park, but on 2:35:42.800 --> 2:35:45.240 weekends agents are posted up right by where the park 2:35:45.280 --> 2:35:48.040 gate is anyway, in case people try and make the 2:35:48.080 --> 2:35:50.440 crossing without permission in order to see the families that 2:35:50.480 --> 2:35:53.000 many of them have been separated from for over two years. 2:35:54.840 --> 2:35:57.440 Throughout those two years, I've crossed the Tijuana and to 2:35:57.480 --> 2:36:00.400 report on the growing number of people come around the 2:36:00.480 --> 2:36:03.840 world from Haiti, from Central and South America, or Ethiopia, 2:36:04.240 --> 2:36:08.359 and recently Ukraine, to name but a few countries. Despite 2:36:08.400 --> 2:36:13.720 the heartbreaking stories of danger, fear and loss, and separation 2:36:13.800 --> 2:36:15.800 from the people they love, they haven't been able to 2:36:15.879 --> 2:36:19.240 file asylum claims due to the Trump administration's spurious use 2:36:19.320 --> 2:36:23.039 of public health laws to severely and illegally limit asylum. 2:36:23.520 --> 2:36:25.720 I don't have time here to explain the entirety of 2:36:25.800 --> 2:36:29.360 the Migrant Protection Protocol and Title forty two, and I 2:36:29.400 --> 2:36:34.000 don't really want to either, because the justification behind them 2:36:34.200 --> 2:36:37.400 isn't what's important. The cruelty they manifest is what's important. 2:36:38.800 --> 2:36:41.920 Joe Biden, who came to office promising a kind of approach, 2:36:42.440 --> 2:36:44.760 has defended some of these policies in court with his 2:36:44.879 --> 2:36:48.520 Department of Justice, and a particular cruelty of Title forty two, 2:36:48.800 --> 2:36:51.640 which allowed authorities to expel migrants who arrived at uth 2:36:51.760 --> 2:36:55.760 Land borders, has persisted despite Biden's recent change of heart, 2:36:56.320 --> 2:36:59.320 because several states managed to sue successfully to keep it 2:36:59.360 --> 2:37:03.280 in place. In the midst of all this, more and 2:37:03.400 --> 2:37:07.320 more people have been separated by the border. Now the 2:37:07.400 --> 2:37:10.400 Biden administration is looking to permanently close the wantedtle island 2:37:10.440 --> 2:37:12.320 of Hope that remained on a beach at the end 2:37:12.360 --> 2:37:17.199 of America. Obviously, a park with a massive fence doesn't 2:37:17.240 --> 2:37:20.560 solve a broken system or make the cruelty any less cruel. 2:37:21.400 --> 2:37:24.080 But it was a place for healing and kindness and 2:37:24.240 --> 2:37:27.560 love and families, and now that place, too is under threat. 2:37:28.360 --> 2:37:31.320 I cut up with Robert Vard, friends of Friendship Park, 2:37:31.680 --> 2:37:34.080 to talk about the park, the threats to it, and 2:37:34.160 --> 2:37:37.240 what you can do to help. Robert, would you like 2:37:37.320 --> 2:37:40.320 to start off just by introducing yourself and explaining sort 2:37:40.320 --> 2:37:43.680 of where you fit in this uh, in the Friendship 2:37:43.760 --> 2:37:47.080 Park world and in the world of the border more generally. Absolutely, 2:37:48.280 --> 2:37:50.600 my name was Robert. We're in a part of the 2:37:51.240 --> 2:37:55.600 friends or friendship or leadership group. And you know the 2:37:55.680 --> 2:37:59.720 reason I'm so involved with Friendship parking Bay Friendship Piker 2:37:59.800 --> 2:38:03.400 so important to me, uh is because I was actually 2:38:03.560 --> 2:38:07.520 one of those uh family members uh that at one 2:38:07.560 --> 2:38:11.160 point in my life I was deported and the only 2:38:12.120 --> 2:38:14.200 way that I was able to see some of my 2:38:14.440 --> 2:38:19.240 family um was through the border wall there at Friendship Park. 2:38:19.959 --> 2:38:24.560 In particular my son, who is active duty military, and 2:38:25.080 --> 2:38:29.240 because of the military status, um, you know, I was 2:38:29.320 --> 2:38:31.960 not able to come across the border, or it was 2:38:32.120 --> 2:38:36.600 very difficult for him to secure authorization from his command 2:38:37.320 --> 2:38:39.920 uh to be able to cross the border, and therefore 2:38:40.040 --> 2:38:44.000 the only type of visit um that I could have 2:38:44.120 --> 2:38:47.840 with my son and my my granddaughters was through that 2:38:47.959 --> 2:38:53.720 border wall. So firsthand I understood very well, uh the 2:38:53.879 --> 2:38:58.960 importance of allowing on the weekends, uh at least for 2:38:59.280 --> 2:39:02.439 you know, a few hours on the weekend, that opportunity 2:39:02.560 --> 2:39:05.920 for families to uh to be able to uh to 2:39:06.040 --> 2:39:09.840 meet there at Friendship Park. Yeah. So perhaps we should 2:39:09.840 --> 2:39:12.520 explain for people who aren't here in San Diego what 2:39:12.840 --> 2:39:16.560 the what Friendship Park is, right, or perhaps what it 2:39:16.879 --> 2:39:23.800 was in say before it was shot absolutely uh back 2:39:24.440 --> 2:39:30.040 prior to COVID. Friendship Park is a by national park 2:39:31.160 --> 2:39:35.000 separated by a border while actually by two border walls 2:39:35.600 --> 2:39:42.520 on the southwestern tip of the United States bordering Mexico. 2:39:43.240 --> 2:39:47.880 It's a border between Imperial Beach and Tijuana Beach. And 2:39:48.720 --> 2:39:53.320 the Friendship Park is actually a strip of land inside 2:39:53.360 --> 2:39:57.160 Borderfield State Park. And that strip of land is in 2:39:57.320 --> 2:40:03.000 between UM two border walls boarder fences, if you if 2:40:03.040 --> 2:40:08.640 you say so, UM, and that part is considered to 2:40:08.840 --> 2:40:15.480 US friendship part, which is the area where UH person's 2:40:15.959 --> 2:40:19.480 families uh mixed status families from both sides of the 2:40:19.560 --> 2:40:22.920 border with meat. But it wasn't only a place for 2:40:23.240 --> 2:40:27.360 families to meet. There's also a place for people of 2:40:27.440 --> 2:40:30.840 good nature of the United States and Mexico to be 2:40:30.959 --> 2:40:35.080 able to meet and UH and also extend their friendship 2:40:35.879 --> 2:40:39.640 between the two countries and the two communities. UH. You know, 2:40:39.760 --> 2:40:44.000 back up fifty almost fifty one years ago. This is 2:40:44.080 --> 2:40:49.279 the area that then First Lady pat Nixon UM actually 2:40:49.840 --> 2:40:55.800 inaugurated as International Friendship Park and actually went as far 2:40:56.000 --> 2:40:59.800 as cutting a part wire or having the Secret Service 2:41:00.000 --> 2:41:02.760 at the barbed wire there at the park so she 2:41:02.879 --> 2:41:07.320 could reach across to the Mexico side and hug the 2:41:07.440 --> 2:41:13.080 people of Mexico. UH. Because of the the you know, 2:41:13.160 --> 2:41:16.440 the sentiment, the feeling of of that friendship between the 2:41:16.520 --> 2:41:20.320 two countries, and you know her very famous words, uh, 2:41:20.560 --> 2:41:22.520 that she wished that there would no longer be a 2:41:22.640 --> 2:41:26.480 fence here to separate these two great countries. And of 2:41:26.600 --> 2:41:31.280 course we know that fifty one years later, almost fifty 2:41:31.320 --> 2:41:36.280 one years later, Uh, that has taken an opposite course 2:41:36.360 --> 2:41:41.720 of direction, where we now have two border walls. Plans 2:41:41.760 --> 2:41:47.440 are to direct to even higher, uglier eight walls to 2:41:47.680 --> 2:41:51.920 divide our two great countries. Yeah. So perhaps again, I 2:41:52.000 --> 2:41:56.640 think people have a very uh the way that people 2:41:56.680 --> 2:41:58.240 see the border when they don't live on the border 2:41:58.320 --> 2:41:59.959 is very different to the way we see the boarder 2:42:00.040 --> 2:42:02.440 when we live on the border, right, And I think 2:42:02.560 --> 2:42:05.960 part of that is in this understanding of walls and 2:42:06.080 --> 2:42:12.000 fences and barriers and the various things which we have 2:42:12.360 --> 2:42:15.640 already along the border. Right. So, um, maybe you could 2:42:15.640 --> 2:42:17.640 give us a little sort of potted history of the 2:42:17.800 --> 2:42:20.960 different Uh. I think you're right there secure fences right 2:42:21.080 --> 2:42:24.280 that were built through the Friendship Park and across the 2:42:24.360 --> 2:42:29.240 sort of San Diego Tijuana area. Right. Well, Uh, you know, again, 2:42:29.320 --> 2:42:32.560 for the longest time, the only fence that used to 2:42:33.000 --> 2:42:36.960 separate the two countries was that that strand of barb 2:42:37.040 --> 2:42:43.959 wire UH. However, after Operation that Gatekeeper nine eleven UM, 2:42:44.480 --> 2:42:49.440 it was decided to to build the sturdier fence and 2:42:49.879 --> 2:42:54.800 then in two thousand and eleven the secondary fence UH 2:42:55.240 --> 2:42:59.720 was erected and at that time the threat of the 2:43:00.200 --> 2:43:04.920 being closed again because of the advocacy of friends or 2:43:05.000 --> 2:43:10.760 Friendship part UM, it was negoty negotiated with with Order 2:43:10.840 --> 2:43:16.959 Patrol UH that the the park would continue to remain 2:43:17.080 --> 2:43:21.920 open with a limited access of at that time persons 2:43:22.640 --> 2:43:27.080 UM at a time on Saturdays and Sundays from ten 2:43:27.160 --> 2:43:30.600 o'clock in the morning to two o'clock in the afternoon. UH. 2:43:31.160 --> 2:43:37.000 That second wall was erected when the federal government um 2:43:37.760 --> 2:43:42.240 UH claimed eminent domain from the state of California and 2:43:42.600 --> 2:43:48.720 acquired that piece of land UH which is UH now 2:43:48.920 --> 2:43:52.960 considered the enforcement area and to us UH is the 2:43:53.080 --> 2:43:57.720 area that were better known as Friendship Part right, and 2:43:57.959 --> 2:44:01.840 so UM, what's see, there's a threat to the park now, right, 2:44:01.879 --> 2:44:04.560 there's a there's a new threat, and I think people 2:44:05.040 --> 2:44:09.960 UH again it might not have realized that we're continuing 2:44:10.040 --> 2:44:14.360 to build border wall, border barrier order DIKE. It's sometimes 2:44:14.440 --> 2:44:18.040 called UH depending on which part of the country you're in. 2:44:18.280 --> 2:44:21.879 But can you explain how, despite Joe Biden having signed 2:44:21.959 --> 2:44:25.600 this executive order saying what he claims saying not one 2:44:25.640 --> 2:44:28.360 more mile of wall, how are we still having this 2:44:28.560 --> 2:44:32.120 threat of building a bigger, uglier wall, right, And you know, 2:44:32.280 --> 2:44:36.920 I think that's uh, that's precisely the question, Uh that 2:44:37.080 --> 2:44:41.760 French or Friendship park paracity that why is it that Uh? 2:44:42.560 --> 2:44:47.120 If President Biden has stated that he would not build 2:44:47.200 --> 2:44:50.879 one more intro Trump's border wall, all of a sudden 2:44:50.959 --> 2:44:58.240 now has decided uh to finish the construction of Trump's border, Well, 2:44:59.040 --> 2:45:03.119 it's a question that that that we all ask, uh. 2:45:03.240 --> 2:45:08.280 And there's part of the the petition that we have 2:45:08.520 --> 2:45:14.360 reached out to uh Border Patrol as to the inclusion 2:45:14.640 --> 2:45:19.920 of the public and in those plans on continuing the 2:45:20.040 --> 2:45:27.080 replacement of the that while with thirty foot fallered fencing. Yeah, 2:45:27.400 --> 2:45:29.960 and that thirty footballered fencing, that's what people will be 2:45:30.360 --> 2:45:35.039 familiar with as the Trump wool, right, That is correct, 2:45:35.879 --> 2:45:39.800 something that you know, the fenishing that exists right now. Uh. 2:45:41.160 --> 2:45:44.640 You know, it's it's there. And I guess even though 2:45:44.720 --> 2:45:47.520 we we may not like what it is and what 2:45:47.720 --> 2:45:52.200 it represents. Um, you know, but it is there. But 2:45:52.360 --> 2:45:56.119 now to go even further and further desecrat our part 2:45:56.240 --> 2:46:04.360 with two thirty foot walled style defenses just completely uh 2:46:05.560 --> 2:46:11.039 obstructs the the aesthetics of the park, desgrades our part. 2:46:11.680 --> 2:46:15.680 Yeah and so yeah, with this sort of further threat 2:46:15.720 --> 2:46:19.040 to the park cluoming you touched on it earlier, but 2:46:19.160 --> 2:46:21.600 I'd like to go back to like what the park means, 2:46:22.879 --> 2:46:26.040 especially to families who are separated by the border right 2:46:26.080 --> 2:46:29.840 and can't cross to see each other. Oh absolutely, uh, 2:46:30.080 --> 2:46:33.040 you know, on on when the part was open on 2:46:33.240 --> 2:46:36.680 on a weekly on a weekend basis. Uh, you know, 2:46:36.760 --> 2:46:40.080 we would have families, uh you know, for example, grandmothers 2:46:40.120 --> 2:46:43.520 that had never met their their grandchildren, you know, meet 2:46:43.560 --> 2:46:47.160 their grandchildren for the first time route across that border wall. 2:46:47.520 --> 2:46:50.280 You know, mothers that hadn't seen their their kids in 2:46:50.600 --> 2:46:55.600 twenty thirty years. Uh, you know, the joy of you know, 2:46:55.879 --> 2:46:59.400 of being able to at least see them across that 2:46:59.520 --> 2:47:02.720 border all and just you know, a couple inches away 2:47:02.800 --> 2:47:06.240 from them. And even though you know, nothing could pass 2:47:06.320 --> 2:47:10.240 through through that barrier. Um. The only thing that was 2:47:10.360 --> 2:47:13.960 able to pass through the um the orifice there on 2:47:14.040 --> 2:47:17.400 the wall or the fencing was the tip of your finger, 2:47:17.959 --> 2:47:23.240 which is why uh we kind of uh uh created 2:47:23.360 --> 2:47:26.879 what we call the peak kids because that's the only 2:47:26.959 --> 2:47:28.920 thing that would reach across and that's the only way 2:47:28.959 --> 2:47:31.760 we would be able to hug and kiss our loved 2:47:31.800 --> 2:47:36.240 ones on the other side of the border. UM very significant. 2:47:36.280 --> 2:47:40.840 And you know something that uh that we hope more 2:47:40.879 --> 2:47:46.560 people would understand is that you know, by heavy the 2:47:46.680 --> 2:47:50.000 part open and families allowed to be able to visit 2:47:50.080 --> 2:47:53.840 across that fence, it would allow people, even though it's 2:47:53.920 --> 2:47:57.440 not the best scenario, but at least it would give people. 2:47:57.520 --> 2:48:01.800 It would give families the opportunity to remain being a family, 2:48:02.280 --> 2:48:05.320 to have a little bit of contract with their loved ones. 2:48:05.440 --> 2:48:11.880 Something very important. We keep hearing about reasons for you know, 2:48:12.040 --> 2:48:16.760 a border walls and more uh check h TEG and 2:48:16.959 --> 2:48:21.600 and security and so forth, because incursions, Well, Todd, this 2:48:21.760 --> 2:48:25.160 is one of the reasons why, uh, you know, we 2:48:25.280 --> 2:48:30.680 have more incursions because people get desperate from losing contact 2:48:30.760 --> 2:48:34.160 with their loved ones that they're willing to risk their 2:48:34.280 --> 2:48:36.880 own life to be able to reach their loved ones. 2:48:37.560 --> 2:48:40.520 That's why you have increase in people trying to swim 2:48:40.560 --> 2:48:44.920 across the border. Wall. That's why you have people reaching 2:48:44.959 --> 2:48:47.879 out to further points in the desert trying to reach 2:48:47.959 --> 2:48:52.400 their loved ones. That's why you have people climbing, uh, 2:48:52.680 --> 2:48:56.440 some of these thirty foot walls and falling and uh 2:48:56.959 --> 2:49:01.520 uh you know, bravely injuring themselves out because you get 2:49:01.600 --> 2:49:05.520 to the point that your family is everything in your 2:49:05.600 --> 2:49:08.440 life and you're willing to risk your life to reach 2:49:08.560 --> 2:49:15.920 that family. When uh order uh, when Friendship Part was open, Uh, 2:49:16.360 --> 2:49:18.880 we had a lot of conversations with a lot of 2:49:19.000 --> 2:49:22.320 people that came to the part to visit their families, 2:49:23.200 --> 2:49:27.480 and in speaking to them, uh, they would tell you that, 2:49:28.240 --> 2:49:30.600 you know, being able to see their their families, their 2:49:30.680 --> 2:49:35.720 loved ones and sharing those moments together with very comforting 2:49:35.879 --> 2:49:42.240 and bettery energizing and motivating to continue to fight to 2:49:42.440 --> 2:49:45.920 search for a legal opportunity to be being able to 2:49:46.040 --> 2:49:48.960 reunite what their loved ones. Yeah, and I think we 2:49:49.000 --> 2:49:52.080 should point out that, like, since since the park has 2:49:52.120 --> 2:49:54.800 been closed, it's not just the park being closed which 2:49:54.840 --> 2:49:58.400 has created like a hostile environment for people seeking asylum 2:49:58.480 --> 2:50:00.840 or seeking to reunite with their family in the United States, 2:50:00.920 --> 2:50:05.320 where we've had the Migrant Protection Protocol, which is better 2:50:05.400 --> 2:50:09.280 known as Remain in Mexico, and we've had titled forty two, 2:50:10.160 --> 2:50:14.000 sometimes called catch and Release, both of which do the 2:50:14.080 --> 2:50:16.959 same things that you say, which is increased the amount 2:50:16.959 --> 2:50:19.160 of people who cross in higher risk areas and increase 2:50:19.240 --> 2:50:24.240 in danger to migrants chiefly. So there's this there's this 2:50:24.280 --> 2:50:28.560 perception I think that things changed in January, but they didn't. 2:50:29.000 --> 2:50:32.560 I think for most people, certainly people I've met, trying 2:50:32.600 --> 2:50:35.440 to come to the United States to be safe, they 2:50:35.480 --> 2:50:38.520 still can't. And as you say, they they still can't 2:50:38.560 --> 2:50:41.520 see their families. And perhaps we should also mention that, 2:50:41.600 --> 2:50:45.240 like sometimes we talk about um Friendship Park being binational, 2:50:45.440 --> 2:50:47.960 but it's more than that, right, Like, it's not just 2:50:49.280 --> 2:50:53.360 people from Mexico who come to meet their families of 2:50:53.480 --> 2:50:56.000 Friendship Park. It's it's there's people from all around the 2:50:56.080 --> 2:50:59.160 world who are unable to come to the United States 2:50:59.200 --> 2:51:03.320 but are in on it right right absolutely, And uh, 2:51:03.520 --> 2:51:08.040 you know it's not just you know, families that gather there. Uh, 2:51:08.360 --> 2:51:15.520 it's friendships. It's an opportunity, um for people from any 2:51:15.600 --> 2:51:19.720 part of the world to be able to make a connection, 2:51:20.520 --> 2:51:25.080 make a friend right across that border while without actually 2:51:25.640 --> 2:51:30.000 having to across the border. Uh if for whatever reason 2:51:30.080 --> 2:51:34.360 they may be, they cannot uh come across to the 2:51:34.480 --> 2:51:39.200 Mexico or to the Mexico site. Uh. You know, the 2:51:39.600 --> 2:51:44.360 part is all about friendship. That's what why Uh to 2:51:44.560 --> 2:51:48.200 first Lady Pat Dixon, We're so important the decks and 2:51:48.360 --> 2:51:52.760 nation of the part in consideration of the great friendship 2:51:53.480 --> 2:51:57.600 that existed and has always existed. And and you know what, 2:51:57.800 --> 2:52:01.720 no matter what happens, UH, that is going to continue 2:52:01.800 --> 2:52:05.760 because uh, in particular San Diego and Tijuana, we really 2:52:05.840 --> 2:52:10.400 want to be unity. Um. There's a tremendous population in 2:52:10.520 --> 2:52:14.360 San Diego that have relatives in Defuana and vice versa. 2:52:15.200 --> 2:52:19.720 And it's not only you know, the family, but commerce. Uh. 2:52:21.200 --> 2:52:25.480 You know, we're one community and one way or another, 2:52:25.800 --> 2:52:30.640 you know, uh, people are are gonna stay connected. Uh 2:52:32.280 --> 2:52:35.040 always figure out different ways to be able to to 2:52:35.240 --> 2:52:39.960 remain connected and have that friendship. UM. And I think 2:52:40.120 --> 2:52:44.440 part of uh the reason for that is because uh, 2:52:45.840 --> 2:52:48.040 you know a lot of people see that that border 2:52:48.120 --> 2:52:52.520 fence and they see a barrier, but uh, we see 2:52:52.560 --> 2:52:55.720 that much more than that barrier is the barrier in 2:52:55.800 --> 2:53:00.960 our heart and with you know the people of our community. 2:53:01.520 --> 2:53:05.000 That barrier doesn't exist. The only barrier to us is 2:53:05.200 --> 2:53:08.880 that that friends. The barrier in our heart does not 2:53:09.000 --> 2:53:12.840 exist because we have respect for each other and we 2:53:12.959 --> 2:53:17.920 consider ourselves friends and one community on both sides of 2:53:18.120 --> 2:53:22.800 that border will yeah, yeah, definitely. I think it's yeah, 2:53:22.840 --> 2:53:26.120 the border exists a lot more sort of on the ground, 2:53:26.160 --> 2:53:28.720 and it doesn't in the community here. And I think 2:53:29.440 --> 2:53:32.120 so many thousands of people cross every day, it's really 2:53:32.160 --> 2:53:34.920 odd to have it presented as this hard, impenetrable thing. 2:53:35.000 --> 2:53:38.240 And then it's also just an annoyance and the reason 2:53:38.320 --> 2:53:39.960 that we set in our cars for hours trying to 2:53:40.040 --> 2:53:43.320 cross north. I wonder if we can talk a little 2:53:43.320 --> 2:53:46.199 bit about Because there's a Friendship Park, and then there's 2:53:46.240 --> 2:53:51.600 the southern side, right part lamy Stad. What's the official 2:53:51.720 --> 2:53:54.920 sort of set up in Mexico with regards to the park. 2:53:54.959 --> 2:53:58.920 It's a little different from the US, right, Uh yeah, well, 2:53:59.000 --> 2:54:01.480 you know, the big difference on the Mexico side is, 2:54:02.040 --> 2:54:06.680 like our pastor John Fantasy says, on the Mexico side 2:54:06.800 --> 2:54:11.720 is one big party, you know, one one big uh 2:54:12.360 --> 2:54:17.760 friendly happy atmosphere, just like what you would expect to 2:54:17.879 --> 2:54:22.200 find in any part where families gather on on the 2:54:22.280 --> 2:54:25.880 weekend and now you know during summer vacation even during 2:54:25.920 --> 2:54:30.360 the week UH, you know, a bustling UH beach city 2:54:31.480 --> 2:54:38.039 with a magnificent friendly part, family oriented UH, family friendly 2:54:38.280 --> 2:54:47.880 part where where people go to enjoy a a beautiful part. Um. Unfortunately, UH, 2:54:48.600 --> 2:54:51.959 our our friends on the U S side, I cannot 2:54:52.080 --> 2:54:56.040 enjoy the part as uh as much as UH our 2:54:56.120 --> 2:54:59.599 friends on the Mexico side do because of these limitations 2:55:00.600 --> 2:55:02.960 on the part. Yeah, it's it's a shame. Like you said, 2:55:02.959 --> 2:55:05.280 it's very contrasting like the U. S side, it's kind 2:55:05.280 --> 2:55:07.680 of difficult to get to and it's only open and 2:55:08.360 --> 2:55:10.520 set now is It's what it's not open at all 2:55:10.640 --> 2:55:12.800 post and we should explain that, right. So it was 2:55:12.840 --> 2:55:17.520 closed in UH for COVID and then if I understand 2:55:17.640 --> 2:55:22.360 right following that it remained close because border patrol were understaffed. 2:55:22.440 --> 2:55:25.600 They claim, right, that is where we have been told 2:55:25.720 --> 2:55:29.840 that Friends of Friendship part originally that it was close 2:55:29.920 --> 2:55:35.240 because of COVID UH, and the understanding was that UH 2:55:35.800 --> 2:55:41.280 when the COVID situation UH was over, then that their 2:55:41.320 --> 2:55:45.520 plan was to reopen Friendship Part. However, now we're being 2:55:45.680 --> 2:55:50.200 told that because of a lack of personnel that they're 2:55:50.240 --> 2:55:54.200 not able to staff it accordingly to be able to 2:55:54.320 --> 2:55:57.840 open it. Uh. You know you judged a little bit 2:55:57.879 --> 2:56:02.760 earlier on the MPP program. Uh. You know, if there 2:56:02.800 --> 2:56:06.440 has been increased in incursions into the US, a lot 2:56:06.480 --> 2:56:10.440 of it has to do with the asylum process UH 2:56:10.959 --> 2:56:14.280 that has been halted for so many for the last 2:56:14.360 --> 2:56:17.840 couple of years. That uh, you know, forces people in 2:56:18.000 --> 2:56:23.320 desperation uh to take their life at risk and try 2:56:23.360 --> 2:56:27.160 to gain entry into the US. You know, UH, it's 2:56:27.160 --> 2:56:29.840 not that difficult to understand if if you're living in 2:56:29.920 --> 2:56:37.040 a country where crime and violence is widespread, and you 2:56:37.160 --> 2:56:41.039 have a choice whether you leave your country and travel 2:56:41.120 --> 2:56:46.040 three or four thousand miles to reach some kind of safety, uh, 2:56:46.600 --> 2:56:48.959 to protect the life of your of your loved ones, 2:56:49.080 --> 2:56:54.520 of your family. UH. You know, you're you're going to 2:56:55.360 --> 2:56:58.600 You're gonna if you risk that, You're gonna you're gonna 2:56:59.080 --> 2:57:02.200 risk you know, your life trying to get across it 2:57:02.360 --> 2:57:05.200 and protect your family. And if the only way you 2:57:05.280 --> 2:57:08.400 can do it is by jumping over that fence or 2:57:08.440 --> 2:57:13.280 streaming around that ocean, uh, you know, that's what we've 2:57:13.360 --> 2:57:16.840 seen happening, and a lot of that has got to 2:57:16.959 --> 2:57:21.520 do with uh the asylum process. Uh that is been 2:57:21.600 --> 2:57:26.800 shut down and continues to be shut down. Um, people 2:57:26.840 --> 2:57:30.360 are gonna continue to try to to to save their 2:57:30.440 --> 2:57:33.600 life and their life and their their family. Uh. That's 2:57:33.640 --> 2:57:38.040 why we're hoping that, um the asylum process can be 2:57:38.680 --> 2:57:43.600 reinstated as an international law requires calls for it. Uh 2:57:43.840 --> 2:57:48.640 and UH that would would definitely uh show a decrease. 2:57:49.520 --> 2:57:54.320 And now in incursions, um again you know a lot 2:57:54.360 --> 2:57:59.120 of these incursions, uh are people trying to reach safety 2:57:59.240 --> 2:58:02.480 for themselves, their in their loved ones. Yeah, and it's 2:58:02.520 --> 2:58:05.200 been a very difficult situation in Tijuana for a lot 2:58:05.240 --> 2:58:07.680 of people, a lot of people who have arrived since 2:58:08.280 --> 2:58:12.160 MPP started. Like for a while people were camping at 2:58:12.200 --> 2:58:14.600 the at the at the border crossing right but in 2:58:14.760 --> 2:58:19.360 town like a head west they got cleared. Yeah. It's 2:58:19.440 --> 2:58:22.920 it's also sort of forcing the all these shelters and 2:58:23.000 --> 2:58:26.760 nonprofits in Tijuana to saddle the burden, which that they 2:58:26.840 --> 2:58:30.360 do a very good job with largely. But this you know, 2:58:30.520 --> 2:58:33.240 with this massive, richest country on the on Earth, and 2:58:33.320 --> 2:58:34.920 we just could have should have shutting the door at 2:58:34.920 --> 2:58:38.200 a minute and saying like you're not welcome, right that 2:58:38.600 --> 2:58:43.000 that that is absolutely correct. So I know that you 2:58:43.400 --> 2:58:46.440 you've been doing some events at the Friendship Park, right, 2:58:46.520 --> 2:58:48.240 You've got a concert coming up. Could you tell us 2:58:48.280 --> 2:58:52.680 about that? Yes, absolutely, we have a concert coming up 2:58:52.720 --> 2:58:58.520 about four our fifty first anniversary. And the headliner for 2:58:58.600 --> 2:59:03.520 the concert is a gentleman known as the the father 2:59:03.680 --> 2:59:07.600 of Mexican rock and roll, uh, which begun here here 2:59:08.080 --> 2:59:11.760 I'm saying here would be begun in Tijuana, Mexico, Vier 2:59:11.840 --> 2:59:16.879 Baptist And uh. You know what what is really neat 2:59:17.240 --> 2:59:23.040 is that Javier Batiez was actually the the mentor of 2:59:23.160 --> 2:59:26.840 Carlos Santana. And you know we all love the music 2:59:26.920 --> 2:59:32.560 of Carlos Santana, incredible performers. Uh. Well, he had his 2:59:32.720 --> 2:59:38.760 start with Javier Baptiz. Uh at one point here in Tijuana, Mexico. 2:59:39.520 --> 2:59:43.640 I keep saying here, I'm in San Diego, uh in Tijuana, Mexico. 2:59:44.920 --> 2:59:48.720 And you know, Javier is is an icon of rock 2:59:48.760 --> 2:59:54.240 and roll music, uh and of Tijuana. And you know what, uh, 2:59:54.840 --> 2:59:58.040 what I think is really special about this concert UH 2:59:58.160 --> 3:00:03.960 is speaking to Javier. Um. You know, his ideals are 3:00:04.120 --> 3:00:08.560 very much along the ideals of uh what Friendship part 3:00:08.720 --> 3:00:12.240 is all about. And you know friendship puts a smile 3:00:12.280 --> 3:00:16.360 on people's face. And that was something that that you're 3:00:16.440 --> 3:00:20.279 told me personally, Um, I love to play my music 3:00:21.320 --> 3:00:24.040 because my music puts a smile on people's face, and 3:00:24.080 --> 3:00:27.520 I like to make people happy. That's great, and and 3:00:27.640 --> 3:00:30.280 you know that's the whole idea behind friendship, part to 3:00:30.400 --> 3:00:35.600 make people happy, to have people enjoy a beautiful part, 3:00:35.879 --> 3:00:40.080 enjoy their families, enjoy the friendship across the border that 3:00:40.240 --> 3:00:43.440 we have. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's very sad. 3:00:44.280 --> 3:00:46.600 The whole set of Cannad is very sad, right, like 3:00:47.640 --> 3:00:50.720 the idea that, um, we don't have it. We have 3:00:50.840 --> 3:00:52.600 enough money to build a giant steel barrier, but not 3:00:52.760 --> 3:00:54.480 enough money to open this place up for you know, 3:00:54.520 --> 3:00:56.200 a few hours a week for people to see their 3:00:56.240 --> 3:01:00.040 families and enjoy themselves, enjoy that time to get it 3:01:00.280 --> 3:01:05.760 just seems almost that pointlessly cruel, I guess, and which 3:01:06.000 --> 3:01:07.680 I don't know. Sometimes a lot of the immigration system 3:01:07.720 --> 3:01:14.200 seems pointlessly cruel to me. Yes, yes, absolutely, Uh, when 3:01:14.240 --> 3:01:17.960 you separate a mother from a child, that is cruel. 3:01:18.879 --> 3:01:21.680 When you won't allow a mother and a child to 3:01:21.920 --> 3:01:25.959 even be able to gather for a couple hours a week, 3:01:26.680 --> 3:01:32.480 separate from a barrier. That's very cruel. When you don't 3:01:32.560 --> 3:01:36.800 allow people of good nature, of good will to visit 3:01:37.000 --> 3:01:42.400 even though it is across a barrier, that is not good. Yeah, 3:01:42.959 --> 3:01:46.480 I think it's important that people across the country like obviously, 3:01:46.560 --> 3:01:49.400 like it can be really difficult to care about everything, right, Like, 3:01:49.520 --> 3:01:53.160 it's it's a pretty difficult time, and with Supreme Court 3:01:53.240 --> 3:01:57.440 decisions and the seemingly sort of NonStop mass shootings, it's 3:01:57.480 --> 3:02:00.880 a difficult time for everyone, I think. But like, um, 3:02:01.840 --> 3:02:05.120 I think it's important that people realize that the border 3:02:05.280 --> 3:02:08.360 is where a lot of these policies get tried for 3:02:08.480 --> 3:02:12.840 the first time. Right, these these things which like if 3:02:12.879 --> 3:02:15.480 we look at the way that like privacy of people 3:02:15.520 --> 3:02:17.200 living on the board has been eroded for a very 3:02:17.280 --> 3:02:21.280 long time, and that's happening to other people. Happened, right, 3:02:21.320 --> 3:02:23.440 It was a border patrol drone that was flying over 3:02:23.520 --> 3:02:27.640 Minneapolis during the protests. And so if people want to 3:02:28.360 --> 3:02:31.640 push back and to show solidarity and support, how can 3:02:31.680 --> 3:02:34.840 they support the park and how maybe can they support 3:02:34.879 --> 3:02:38.080 the people who are stuck in in Tijuana and want 3:02:38.120 --> 3:02:40.120 to cross but are allowed to cross because of of 3:02:40.320 --> 3:02:44.840 mp P or Title forty two or restrictive asylum sort 3:02:44.879 --> 3:02:52.120 of legislation. Well, you know we're asking people to do it. Well, uh, 3:02:52.440 --> 3:02:57.800 you know you're in the southern California area. UM, you 3:02:57.879 --> 3:03:01.320 know rain or shine. Uh, we go ahead and continue 3:03:01.440 --> 3:03:04.400 having events that Friendship Park on the U S side, 3:03:04.520 --> 3:03:10.200 like our bike rides, our Native Flora workshops, our Border 3:03:10.360 --> 3:03:15.320 Church on on Sundays at one thirty in the afternoon. UM, 3:03:16.120 --> 3:03:18.960 we invite people to come and join us. Uh, come 3:03:19.000 --> 3:03:20.879 and join us on a bike ride, come and join 3:03:21.040 --> 3:03:24.880 us on border church and show your your support for 3:03:25.040 --> 3:03:31.000 the need uh to continue uh the work that had 3:03:31.040 --> 3:03:34.280 been done for so many years. That friendship part in 3:03:34.440 --> 3:03:38.640 some port of our by national families and our by 3:03:38.760 --> 3:03:44.720 national community. Also very important. Contact your your congressman, contact 3:03:44.840 --> 3:03:49.480 your your senator, and if you're in California, of course 3:03:49.560 --> 3:03:56.400 your your California senators. UH. Assembly persons. UM. We need 3:03:56.520 --> 3:04:00.400 to urge them to uh uh to advocate for us 3:04:00.680 --> 3:04:06.800 before Homeland Security, UM, before the Secretary of Homeland Security, 3:04:07.080 --> 3:04:13.120 so they may understand the importance of the Friendship Park 3:04:13.280 --> 3:04:17.119 offers not only to the families, but to to our communities. 3:04:18.000 --> 3:04:20.880 You can secure a border a lot better through friendship 3:04:21.800 --> 3:04:27.160 then through Uh, you know border walls that at a 3:04:27.240 --> 3:04:31.560 given moment can be breached. Uh as we have seen 3:04:31.640 --> 3:04:37.960 they have occurred. Um, the strongest security that anybody can 3:04:38.000 --> 3:04:42.880 ever have is a good, strong relationship on both sides 3:04:42.920 --> 3:04:46.920 of the border. Yeah. I think that's that's that's very 3:04:46.959 --> 3:04:49.480 well well said. And so if people want to come 3:04:49.520 --> 3:04:51.440 to Friendship Park, can you just explain how they would 3:04:52.080 --> 3:04:53.640 get to one of these events and where they have 3:04:53.720 --> 3:04:58.600 to go? Absolutely? Uh, but I would recommend is follow 3:04:58.720 --> 3:05:04.440 us on We have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram accounts Friendship Part 3:05:05.400 --> 3:05:08.920 and also saw our website friendship part dot org where 3:05:09.040 --> 3:05:13.360 we have information on all the different events on our border. 3:05:13.480 --> 3:05:17.800 Church on this way, you can join us uh on 3:05:18.040 --> 3:05:19.560 on the U side, or do you want to come 3:05:19.600 --> 3:05:24.360 to the Mexico side. Uh is wide open. You can. 3:05:24.760 --> 3:05:29.320 You can go directly right to the monument area where 3:05:29.360 --> 3:05:33.160 you can enjoy this, uh this great beautiful monument to 3:05:33.280 --> 3:05:37.520 commemorate out uh the demarcation of the of the of 3:05:37.640 --> 3:05:41.240 the two countries. You know, you can you can enjoy 3:05:41.240 --> 3:05:44.120 it either either way. But we we do like uh 3:05:44.240 --> 3:05:46.880 and we stress people that come out and join us 3:05:46.920 --> 3:05:52.040 on the U s side. Uh, so that uh, you 3:05:52.120 --> 3:05:55.360 know we're not forgotten, So that there's a beautiful piece 3:05:55.440 --> 3:05:59.439 of land um on Borderfield State Park known as Friendship 3:05:59.560 --> 3:06:04.400 part uh is not forgotten. And not only that, you know, uh, 3:06:04.680 --> 3:06:07.240 enjoy the beauty of of of the park. We have 3:06:07.320 --> 3:06:11.520 a beautiful park their Borderfield State Park uh adjacent to 3:06:11.680 --> 3:06:17.200 Friendship part Um, something that very a few people are 3:06:17.280 --> 3:06:20.440 being taken advantage of. Lately, We've had quite a few 3:06:20.520 --> 3:06:25.520 more visitors out there, horseback riding, bicyclinge uh, a few 3:06:25.600 --> 3:06:30.240 families out uh, you know, taking gift in the ocean. Uh. 3:06:31.000 --> 3:06:33.680 But this is a beautiful pub beach that that we 3:06:33.840 --> 3:06:37.640 have there on the U S side and welcome, you know, 3:06:37.800 --> 3:06:42.640 our our community, We're San Diego to community to come 3:06:42.680 --> 3:06:45.760 and enjoy it as well. And you know, as you 3:06:45.840 --> 3:06:51.039 come and enjoy it, you support our efforts to demonstrate 3:06:51.160 --> 3:06:55.520 the need to keep our part open. Yeah. Yeah, I 3:06:55.560 --> 3:06:58.040 think that's a very uh. Yeah, it's not hard for 3:06:58.080 --> 3:07:00.240 people to help, and I hope they will. How long 3:07:00.280 --> 3:07:01.760 do we have? Do you think? How long do we 3:07:01.879 --> 3:07:06.520 have before they break ground on this new wall? Right? 3:07:07.120 --> 3:07:10.400 We're not sure how long we have. We were told 3:07:10.520 --> 3:07:14.120 that it was a matter of weeks. Uh. Does that 3:07:14.240 --> 3:07:17.600 mean two weeks, three weeks. It's hard to say, but 3:07:17.720 --> 3:07:20.959 we know that it could happen at any at any time, 3:07:21.680 --> 3:07:27.680 Uh lady, We've observed several uh crews out there doing 3:07:28.000 --> 3:07:32.360 uh surveys and such of the area, so we know 3:07:32.560 --> 3:07:36.800 that it's uh any moment they should be breaking ground, 3:07:37.560 --> 3:07:41.320 and we hope that before that ground breaks that they 3:07:41.360 --> 3:07:46.080 will consider our request and uh you know, uh public 3:07:46.760 --> 3:07:54.960 uh uh for public support, for public input as to 3:07:55.040 --> 3:07:58.400 what the park should look like. Uh you know, give 3:07:58.440 --> 3:08:04.240 that consideration. Uh too. You know, if you're gonna you're 3:08:04.280 --> 3:08:08.280 going to replace walls to make sure that uh you know, 3:08:08.400 --> 3:08:13.400 the that gates are a lotted uh so that these 3:08:13.520 --> 3:08:17.880 visits can continue, because we understand there's no provision at 3:08:17.920 --> 3:08:21.920 this point for any kind of uh of gate for 3:08:22.400 --> 3:08:27.080 uh you know, for person access for people access uh 3:08:27.240 --> 3:08:30.760 into the area. Uh. That of course tells you that 3:08:31.120 --> 3:08:35.119 there's no intention of continuing at one point to open 3:08:35.280 --> 3:08:39.760 the park for the visits. UH. And of course that's 3:08:40.080 --> 3:08:45.040 extremely concerning, yeah, especially for people separated by the border. Okay, UM, 3:08:45.240 --> 3:08:46.920 so just to finish up, can you give us those 3:08:47.360 --> 3:08:49.840 social media's and web addresses again where people can find 3:08:49.920 --> 3:08:55.600 you and help Sure? Absolutely uh. We're website is www. 3:08:55.920 --> 3:09:00.640 Friendship part dot org. Um the Facebook, you can find 3:09:00.760 --> 3:09:06.080 us under friendship Art. You can also find information under 3:09:06.879 --> 3:09:10.160 ordered Church. Great. All right, thank you so much for 3:09:10.200 --> 3:09:12.240 your time. I really appreciate you taking the time to 3:09:12.280 --> 3:09:14.920 talk and it's a busy time for you. You're very welcome. 3:09:15.000 --> 3:09:17.560 Thank you for the opportunity to be here with you today. 3:09:18.240 --> 3:09:24.039 Thank you. Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes 3:09:24.240 --> 3:09:26.680 every week from now until the heat death of the Universe. 3:09:27.320 --> 3:09:29.640 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:09:29.920 --> 3:09:32.560 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:09:32.600 --> 3:09:34.680 cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 3:09:34.760 --> 3:09:37.240 the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 3:09:37.360 --> 3:09:39.920 listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could 3:09:39.959 --> 3:09:42.879 Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com 3:09:43.000 --> 3:09:44.880 slash sources. Thanks for listening.