1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm tracybe 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Friday. This week we spent both 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: of our episodes talking about the history of diabetes and 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: insulin and I think off Mike not while recording, Uh, 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: you mentioned there being various diabetes and your extended family. UM, 7 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: and then also when I was a kid growing up 8 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: in the eighties and nineties, UM, one of like my 9 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 1: long term school friends had type one diabetes, which was definitely, 10 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: I mean, it's still definitely a challenge to manage diabetes. 11 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: It's a lifelong, ongoing thing. But what she was having 12 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: to do in the eighties and nineties is very different 13 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: from what my friends that I have kept up with now, 14 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: Like now I know folks who have insulin pumps that 15 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: are delivering the insulin they need without this whole like 16 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: get the thing out of the refrigerator to inject yourself 17 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: process that she was having to do as a child. 18 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: There are definitely people that are still um injecting themselves 19 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: with syringes and insulin that has to be refrigerated. Like 20 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: once once you get on a management strategy that's working 21 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: for you, folks tend to be. Are you reluctant to 22 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: change that strategy because it could be a really big deal. Yeah, 23 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: I mean you're messing with your body chemistry in a 24 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: way that is potentially fatal at that point if you 25 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: start tweaking things without some pretty careful management. I think 26 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 1: I probably actually, at this point in my life, no 27 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: more about diabetes and cats than humans. Um, none of 28 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: mine thus far, And I knock would because I am superstitious, 29 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: even though I know that's silly. Um have had it, 30 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: but I have had a lot of friends who have 31 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: had cats with it. And because our friend group tends 32 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: to trade around cat kid air and some of my 33 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: friends are a little squeamish about needles, there have been 34 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: certainly been times when I have been the one to 35 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:12,119 Speaker 1: be like, I will admitis through this. Yeah, Yeah, it's 36 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: an interesting thing. It's fascinating to me because I personally 37 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: tend to be the other way. I have low blood 38 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: sugar naturally, and I'm more in danger of like not 39 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: having enough protein to keep me going, which is far 40 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: less scary and easier to manage through diet. Although my 41 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: understanding is that you know, that's one of those things 42 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: that your body can kind of switch gears and and 43 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: UH turn it into a much more scary diabetic situation 44 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,679 Speaker 1: as you get older. Knock on wood eating all the protein. Yeah. Well, 45 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: and we didn't really talk about this part of We 46 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: talked a lot about the pancreas and the podcast, but 47 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: we did not talk about how in in most people, 48 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: the way that UH type one diabetes develops is that 49 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: the immune system attacks the islet cells and the pancreas 50 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: for some reason. So as doctors are trying to find 51 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: ways to treat diabetes itself rather than using insulin as 52 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: a management strategy for diabetes, like, one of the things 53 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: is trying to keep the body from doing that in 54 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: the first place. But as is the case with so 55 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: many autoimmune issues, the thing that causes the body to 56 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: do that can be a whole range of different, um, 57 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: different things. Yeah, I'm curious. Um, I know we had 58 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: to stop at one point because I had my ridiculously 59 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: emotional reaction to discussion of dogs. Yes, for anyone that 60 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: knows that I am not a vegetarian, I understand that 61 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: is complex and doesn't always make sense to everyone. Um, 62 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:51,119 Speaker 1: it's interesting to me how emotionally fraught some of these 63 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: stories can be. And I'm into the dog thing, but 64 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: really what like hurt my heart was reading about the 65 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: ways that they were limiting the new t fition of 66 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: children to treat this. Yeah, was there other stuff that 67 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: you found that maybe didn't make it in that was 68 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: similarly along them thing that you were like not this. Uh. 69 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: Some of the things that I read went into more 70 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: detail about the dog research um and especially older like 71 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: more detail of those earlier studies that people were doing 72 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: on dogs before banting and best or doing anything um 73 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: and like some of that is just horrifying to read 74 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: the details of I like I at a couple of 75 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: different points in my life have been vegetarian for animal 76 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: rights reasons, and like I opted out of taking anatomy 77 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 1: and physiology in high school because I didn't want to 78 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: have to dissect animals. Um. So a lot of that 79 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: stuff is like really difficult for me. Like I do 80 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: I do eat meat now, but most of my meals 81 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: are not do not include meat. And like I'm also 82 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: the persons behind the humanely raised eggs and all of that. 83 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so reading about that was all really hard. 84 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: But at the same time, like, there are so many 85 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: people in my life who need insolent to live, and 86 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: they would not be here if people had not done 87 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: that work, which makes it complicated rights. I mean, that's 88 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: really the thing I feel like. This is always my 89 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: takeaway and something I always try to convey to people 90 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: when talking about history, is that none of it is 91 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,119 Speaker 1: clean and easy. None of it is like a black 92 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: and white they did everything correctly, and we can feel 93 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: good about this because most advancements that have led to 94 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: the creature comforts we enjoy today or the life saving 95 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: things that we need today and and have access to. 96 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: And I use that in the very very slushy nature 97 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: because I know not everyone has ready access to it, 98 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: but in terms of it just having been developed does 99 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: come things that are uncomfortable and morally difficult in many cases. 100 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: So that's kind of the the dance you have to 101 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: do when you're looking at some of this historical uh, 102 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: the historical record in terms particularly with scientific development, and 103 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to square I think we I know, 104 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: I would rather certainly that things be black and white 105 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: and simple, but they're not. And kind of finding your 106 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: way through that that middle range and the ambiguity of 107 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: not being able to say something was like all done 108 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 1: perfectly without any tainting to the moral dilemma. Is uh, 109 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: that's a trick. I can't do it. Yeah, history, Why 110 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: why must you be so cloudy? I have that question 111 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: so many times working on the show. Yeah. So yeah, 112 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: I'm also glad that there's you know, there's been so 113 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: many developments and and insulin and how it's made and 114 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: how it works and how it acts in the body 115 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: and insulin analogs and all that stuff. Um Like, just 116 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: like I said earlier, when I have been in the 117 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: same room with somebody he was taking their insulin seven 118 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: versus now, like it's just a more comfortable process for 119 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: the Yeah, I would say now than in so even 120 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: in our lifetimes, there have been these changes. Oh yeah, 121 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: I mean when I was a kid, I was probably six, 122 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: I think I was in first grade, Like one of 123 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: my classmates went into a diabetic coma, and you know, 124 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: it was she was a neighbor and it was very 125 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: touch and go and we didn't know if she was 126 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: going to be okay. And I remember like that was 127 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: my first exposure to diabetes, and like trying to have 128 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: this explained by my dad, who was trying to be 129 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: very scientific, but like was giving me way more than 130 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: I was intellectually ready for. I just remember being like, 131 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: what do you mean sugar can kill you? Wait? And 132 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: I became a little scared of cupcakes for a minute, 133 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: for a minute, and it was one of those things. 134 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: And now when I look back, I think, like today, 135 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: that whole situation would have been completely different. Yeah, I 136 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: mean that can definitely still happen, and it's still a 137 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: terrifying experience the available course of action exactly, So yeah, 138 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: still still room for more that improved. Yeah, like so 139 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: many things that we talked about on the show. So 140 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: this is an ongoing development, right, maybe next year there 141 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: will be a magical thing in this episode will be outdated. 142 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: I would yeah, if it makes it. I mean, given 143 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: that we often have that problem where we talk about 144 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: a thing and immediately it becomes slightly outdated because someone 145 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: discovers the next scientific or technological advance, uncovers another historical 146 00:08:55,920 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: fact that changes the context of everything. So we maybe 147 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: we're initiating it and catalyzing it by putting it in 148 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: the universe. That would be cool. Uh So yeah, thanks 149 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: everybody for tuning in. On this cadital Friday. If you 150 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: want to send us an email about any anything, we're 151 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 1: at History Podcast I heart radio dot com. Uh and 152 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: you know, subscribe to our show if you haven't on 153 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or I heart Radio, Apple, anywhere you'd like 154 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: to listen to podcasts. Stuff you missed in History Class 155 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts 156 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: from I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, 157 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.