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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff mom never told you. From how Supports

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Speaker 1: dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen

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Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline, And today we are revisiting in fact,

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Speaker 1: online dating, which we talked about a few years ago now,

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Speaker 1: but already we need to talk about it again because

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Speaker 1: online dating has changed, is continually changing, Caroline, by how

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Speaker 1: the times have changed. Yeah, the last time we talked

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Speaker 1: about it, it was in the what is considered the

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Speaker 1: second phase of online dating, which was kind of the

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Speaker 1: the heyday of the algorithm based websites like e Harmony

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Speaker 1: and okay cubid, which, yeah, they're still around today, but folks,

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Speaker 1: we've gone mobile. We are apt crazy. Yeah, no more

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Speaker 1: reading through say is about someone's cats. No, now you

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Speaker 1: just get to pick somebody for the night based on

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Speaker 1: their picture or four days after the night. You know.

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Speaker 1: That's however you want to use it. Um, I will

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Speaker 1: say that although I am gonna commit in loving relationship.

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Speaker 1: About a month or so ago, UM, my boyfriend I

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Speaker 1: were hanging out with some friends and somehow we got

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Speaker 1: on the topic of online dating. All of us at

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Speaker 1: the table, by the way, we're you know, all in relationships,

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Speaker 1: and we started talking about Tinder, because everybody's on Tinder.

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Speaker 1: It's like the hot new thing, and we're like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, let's just let's just see what Tinders about.

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Speaker 1: So we all got out our smartphones and downloaded Tinder.

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Speaker 1: And it's so simple to use because all you need

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Speaker 1: is a Facebook account, so you don't have to set

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Speaker 1: up anything. So five ten minutes later, we're all on Tinder,

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Speaker 1: just swiping through people's images, and it was it was

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Speaker 1: just interesting to see how it worked. And for is

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Speaker 1: unfamiliar with Tinder, which is the fastest growing free online

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Speaker 1: dating app right now, all you do is swipe photos.

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Speaker 1: I think you swipe to the left if you don't

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Speaker 1: want them, and you swipe to the right if you

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Speaker 1: do think someone's attractive, and if you both. If you

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Speaker 1: swipe someone and you think he's attractive or she and

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Speaker 1: he or she thinks you're attractive back, then you can

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Speaker 1: start chatting and then maybe meet up. I had never

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Speaker 1: even heard of this until a friend of mine, dude roommate,

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Speaker 1: was actually doling out advice to this female friend of his,

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Speaker 1: and he was telling me about it, and he's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's on Tender, Da da da da, and I'm like, what,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what is that? What is that?

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Speaker 1: And um, the impression I got from the description is

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Speaker 1: that Tender is like Grinder, and it is kind of

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Speaker 1: like Grinder, but it has had nowhere near the same numbers,

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Speaker 1: I would think, But it gave me like this ick

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Speaker 1: factor to hear about it, because as like a as

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Speaker 1: a veteran of online dating, Kristen, Uh, you know, I

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Speaker 1: mean I think there's I feel like Tinder almost has

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Speaker 1: different purposes. Yeah, I mean there's definitely more of I

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Speaker 1: think probably because Grinder is which is for specifically for

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Speaker 1: gay guys, um, because it's so associated with hooking up

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Speaker 1: that Tinder is similarly thought of as more of a

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Speaker 1: hook up app and hey, more power to hook up apps.

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Speaker 1: If that's what you're looking for, that's totally fine. But

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Speaker 1: it also is reflective to me of how we're using

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Speaker 1: the internet more and more of just visual based scrolling

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Speaker 1: through photos and that's kind of all. We just want

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Speaker 1: a quick hit. We don't want to read very much.

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Speaker 1: We want to be able. It's instant gratification. We want

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Speaker 1: to be able to swipe and yeah, and then Tinder,

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Speaker 1: I mean you swipe and like they're there before we

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Speaker 1: get into our online dating convo. I mean, Karen, you

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Speaker 1: are a success story mind dating. Yeah. Yeah. My boyfriend

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Speaker 1: likes to joke that he tells people that we met

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Speaker 1: at the dog park because we don't have dogs, but um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we met over a year ago on okay Cupid. And

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Speaker 1: it's funny he and I both when we're out together

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Speaker 1: sometimes like at a bar, or at a restaurant or wherever,

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Speaker 1: music festival, whatever, we will both see people a that

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Speaker 1: we went on dates with that we're unsuccessful, but be

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Speaker 1: that we just recognize their faces from seeing them over

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Speaker 1: and over again as suggestions on okay Cupid. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's funny how online dating opens up this vast new

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Speaker 1: world but also can make your world so much smaller

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Speaker 1: because the yeah, exactly. There have been times when I'll

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Speaker 1: be out and I'll be like I'll start to literally

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Speaker 1: like go up to somebody and be like, hey, I

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Speaker 1: know you, are you a friend of And then I'm like, no, nope,

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Speaker 1: senior profile nope. And then it's funny when you have

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Speaker 1: seen the person's profile and then you see the mountain

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Speaker 1: public and you're like, you're lying on your profile, brushing

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Speaker 1: or yeah, or you're yeah, we're not you're not that tall,

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Speaker 1: air brushing or fact brushing yeah yeah uh. And honestly, Caroline,

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Speaker 1: part of me wishes this could just be an episode

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Speaker 1: of you and I swopping combine dating stories because I

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Speaker 1: went through an online dating phase as well. I didn't

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Speaker 1: have as much success with it long term. Um, but

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Speaker 1: it was it was fascinating though it almost felt like

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Speaker 1: an anthropological experiment. Well, I mean, you know, to talk

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Speaker 1: about the weirdness of online dating, Kristen and I, personal note,

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Speaker 1: actually went out with the same person. Yes, we did

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Speaker 1: not at the same time, at the same time. This

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Speaker 1: was it was. There was a lot of time in between,

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Speaker 1: but once we realized it, it was odd, funny. It

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Speaker 1: was funny. I think, Um, I think he, out of

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Speaker 1: the three of us involved in the situation, I think

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Speaker 1: he felt the most awkward about it. Yeah, And honestly,

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Speaker 1: because he felt so awkward, and because I had had

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Speaker 1: been on some dates with him prior, I felt the

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Speaker 1: worst because it was like, well, well I did something terrible,

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Speaker 1: but it's cool. It's cool. I just it's funny. You know,

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Speaker 1: you talk about online dating sites and app some things

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Speaker 1: making the world so much smaller. That's that's a pretty

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Speaker 1: good example. It was. It was, it was a pretty

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Speaker 1: good example. Um. But since actually since the last time

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Speaker 1: we talked about online dating, which I believe was in

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine, more people are trying online dating. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: the Pew Research Center did a whole report on this

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Speaker 1: that came out in October of two thousand thirteen, and

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Speaker 1: it was just flush with statistics, the main one of

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Speaker 1: which is that eleven percent, which doesn't sound like a lot,

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Speaker 1: but that's eleven of all Internet users, which represents nine

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Speaker 1: percent of all American adults say that they have personally

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Speaker 1: used an online dating site. Yeah, and seven percent coming

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Speaker 1: in behind that, seven percent of cell phone app users

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Speaker 1: say that they have used a dating app on their

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Speaker 1: cell phone. Now, I I used the Okay, Cupid dating

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Speaker 1: apps more and more, really just to entertain myself, like

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Speaker 1: when I was on the train or driving him from

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Speaker 1: work or whatever, not so much as like an obsessive

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Speaker 1: tool to use. But I didn't use any of these

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Speaker 1: like locating services or anything, because part of me just

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Speaker 1: finds that absurdly creepy. Well, that's one of the reasons why. Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll get we'll get into that I can't. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to jump ahead of myself because there's so much

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Speaker 1: to talk about. Um, but I will say that that

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Speaker 1: mobile statistic is only going to increase. Yeah, the future

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Speaker 1: is mobile people. UM. So another statistic, percent of US

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Speaker 1: adults who are classified as single and ready to mingle,

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Speaker 1: that's the official demographic term. UH of us have used

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Speaker 1: online or mobile dating services. And this is important. Sixty

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Speaker 1: percent of us have actually gone on face to face

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Speaker 1: dates because a lot of people who are on online

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Speaker 1: dating sites are never gonna meet up with you. They

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Speaker 1: just kind of use it to look, see what's out there,

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Speaker 1: maybe flirt, maybe creep a little bit. Um. And that

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Speaker 1: is up from forty three percent of people who actually

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Speaker 1: went on face to face dates from two thousand five.

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Speaker 1: So at least we're at least we're hanging out together more.

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Speaker 1: And by hanging out, I mean dot dot dot Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think i'm you know, we'll talk about attitudes,

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Speaker 1: but I think part of that is that as online

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Speaker 1: dating becomes more normal, more expected, you know, more of

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Speaker 1: us are more likely to go out on actual dates. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: instead of just sit on the website and look. And

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Speaker 1: there is long term romantic success associated with online dating

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Speaker 1: pent up from in two thousand five of online daters

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Speaker 1: say that they have met a spouse or long term

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Speaker 1: relationship through the site. But that is among straight online daters.

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Speaker 1: For people in LGBT relationships, y'all are online dating like crazy.

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Speaker 1: According to two thousand ten data from Stanford University, sixty

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Speaker 1: of LGBT couples are meeting online. And that's a trend.

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Speaker 1: That's that was existent too. I remember when we were

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Speaker 1: first talking about this, but uh, yeah, it's pretty interesting. Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And the numbers are biggest, really this is this is

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Speaker 1: a young person's game. That the numbers are biggest among

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Speaker 1: young people, but the fastest growing demographic is fifty five

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Speaker 1: and older. Yeah, I mean, and you gotta keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: like wow, the fact of the matter is if you're younger,

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Speaker 1: you're likelier to have used online dating. But people fifty

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Speaker 1: five and up are the fastest growing online daters, probably

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Speaker 1: because of things like divorce, widowhood. Um, and it's becoming

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Speaker 1: I mean, just to show how normative this is becoming.

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Speaker 1: You know the fact that older folks are doing it,

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Speaker 1: that's when you know that it's like an accepted thing

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Speaker 1: to do, just like Facebook kind of yeah. Um. Well,

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Speaker 1: as far as people who are now married or in

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Speaker 1: long term committed relationships, younger people are more likely to

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Speaker 1: say that those relationships began online. So that's eight percent

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Speaker 1: of eight married and committed eighteen to twenty nine year

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Speaker 1: olds first, as for instance, three percent of fifty to

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Speaker 1: sixty four year olds. But as progressive as it seems

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Speaker 1: like online dating is because it's opened up all these

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Speaker 1: avenues for different people to meet, and you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of open up dating worlds that were previously closed off,

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Speaker 1: especially if you live in a smaller town, smaller community. Um,

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Speaker 1: but one, there's one area where online dating reflects how

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Speaker 1: we are maybe negatively stuck in our ways. This was

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Speaker 1: a study that was published in November two thirteen in

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Speaker 1: the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, which found that,

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Speaker 1: based on okay Cupid data that they had collected, but

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Speaker 1: in general, we tend to date people of our same race.

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Speaker 1: We are not very adventurous when it comes to reaching

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Speaker 1: out to people who don't necessarily look exactly like us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it was interesting what they found. It's that it

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Speaker 1: seems like there's this like little barrier, uh that doesn't

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Speaker 1: even seem like a brick wall. It seems more like

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Speaker 1: a rickety fence that's kind of blocking us from going

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Speaker 1: out with people or dating people of different races. Um.

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Speaker 1: The researchers found that we might be limiting our choices

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Speaker 1: out of a fear that we're not attractive to people

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Speaker 1: of other races, and they found that once people had

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Speaker 1: been approached by somebody from a different race or had

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Speaker 1: gotten a response from someone from a different race, they

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Speaker 1: were then more likely to initiate contact or respond to

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Speaker 1: someone from that same race in the future. These people

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Speaker 1: logged one and fifteen percent more interracial exchanges during this

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Speaker 1: two and a half month Okay Cupid study than people

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Speaker 1: of a similar background who had not been contacted by

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Speaker 1: a person from another race. So basically, it sounds like

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Speaker 1: if we use online dating as a tool to branch

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Speaker 1: out a bit, it can have some interesting and diversifying effects. Yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: Although one finding was that overwhelmingly the people of all

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Speaker 1: the demographics male female the likeliest to receive a response

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Speaker 1: from a message or white men. Yet again, great to

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Speaker 1: be a white man, but speaking of white guys, um,

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Speaker 1: Asian women did not fit the trend of kind of

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Speaker 1: staying within their own ethnic group. As far as responding

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Speaker 1: two messages, um Asian women were more likely to contact

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Speaker 1: white men than other Asian guys. And Kevin Lewis, who

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Speaker 1: is a University of California, San Diego sociologist who led

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Speaker 1: the study, noted that quote, scholars have found it hard

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Speaker 1: to qualify how much of self segregation in the dating

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Speaker 1: pool has to do with internal prejudice versus structural issues

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Speaker 1: in an already segregated society. So so, in other words,

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Speaker 1: they're not entirely sure whether you know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: Essentially that keeps us sort of self segregating over and

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Speaker 1: over again. But they say, it's heartening to see how

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Speaker 1: the statistics show that once you know that that we're

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Speaker 1: open to interracial dating, and especially I mean, if we

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Speaker 1: just look at millennials and attitudes towards interracial relationships, we

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Speaker 1: are by far the most like open and accepting of them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so all it takes just just start messaging different types

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Speaker 1: of people and see what happened. And hey, you know what,

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Speaker 1: for all the people out there who think millennials are

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Speaker 1: rotten and selfish and lazy, we're open minded. So and

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Speaker 1: that's been my commercial for millennials. Um, but let's talk

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Speaker 1: about the attitudes towards online dating, because when it first started,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people were maybe a little

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Speaker 1: hesitant to say that they met via online dating. There

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Speaker 1: was this idea that, oh, well, you have to resort

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Speaker 1: to online dating because you just you can't meet people

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Speaker 1: in real life. What's wrong with you? Answer nothing or

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Speaker 1: answer you're busy. Um. And this Pew research has also

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Speaker 1: shown that online dating is more positively viewed than it

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Speaker 1: was just a few years ago. In two thousand five, yeah,

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Speaker 1: of all Internet users, not just online daters, agree that

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Speaker 1: online dating is a good way to meet people. That's

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Speaker 1: up from in two thousand five, and talking about specifically

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Speaker 1: online dats, seventy nine percent of actual online dators agree

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Speaker 1: that it's a good way to meet people, so not

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Speaker 1: agree that it's a good way to meet people. Seventy

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Speaker 1: percent of online daters agree that online dating allows you

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Speaker 1: to find a better match for yourself, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of people are still skeptical. Of all Internet users agree

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Speaker 1: that people who use online dating fits are desperate, although

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Speaker 1: that is down from pent who thought you were desperate?

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Speaker 1: In two thousand, five percent of online daters agree that

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Speaker 1: online dating is desperate, so they're basically saying, yes, I'm desperate.

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Speaker 1: I'm desperate, and I'm going to find a freaking date

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Speaker 1: of us. Um. And even though online dating is definitely

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Speaker 1: perceived as you know, more normative, like fine thing for

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Speaker 1: you to do, it's not all that grand, especially if

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Speaker 1: you are a woman and online dating, because negative experiences

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Speaker 1: absolutely exists, whether it's things like cat fishing or misrepresentation

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Speaker 1: or getting creepy messages from people. That was one thing

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Speaker 1: that I definitely don't miss about Okay Cupid getting messages

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Speaker 1: from guys that were just rude or highly inappropriate. I

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Speaker 1: would get these obscene messages and I got great joy

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Speaker 1: at first. I was like, oh god, it's so offensive,

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Speaker 1: and like it makes my brain hurt. I just started

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Speaker 1: editing there. I mean, I have an editing background, so

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Speaker 1: I just edit their messages and send it back to

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Speaker 1: them and I said, here's the edited version of your message.

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Speaker 1: And that did not so well. I have a feeling

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Speaker 1: it would not so well at all. Um. So fift

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Speaker 1: of online data is report negative experiences. Though of women

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Speaker 1: report having been contacted by someone through an online dating

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Speaker 1: site or app in a way that made them feel

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Speaker 1: harass or uncomfortable. You and I are compared to only

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Speaker 1: sevent of men. So maybe just a note. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is a very heteronormative thing to say, but maybe

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Speaker 1: just a note to guys out there, just, you know,

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Speaker 1: don't be creepy on online dating. Yeah, but you know what,

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Speaker 1: the guys who are going to be creepy and online

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Speaker 1: dating are going to be creepy. I r L two

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Speaker 1: in real life, and this is true. Um, But I

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Speaker 1: think the fact of the matter is, as much as

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Speaker 1: we still love to talk about online dating and it's

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Speaker 1: still treated, especially in this newer era of app driven dating,

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Speaker 1: it's still reported on so often as a trend. But

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Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is, and this was one

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Speaker 1: thing that, for instance, Maureen O'Connor New York Magazine pointed out,

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Speaker 1: how can you really call it a trend, especially for

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Speaker 1: people of our age, Caroline, I don't, I really don't know.

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Speaker 1: I can think of one person off the top of

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Speaker 1: my head who has been in a relationship long enough

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Speaker 1: that she hasn't used online dating. But I just feel

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Speaker 1: like online dating is dating. Yeah. I my boyfriend has

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Speaker 1: a younger friend who is in law school, who uses

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Speaker 1: online dating. And my my initial response to that was like,

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Speaker 1: what is his problem? Why can't he get a date?

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Speaker 1: He's surrounded by all these other students. And then I,

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Speaker 1: you know, I thought about an a law school. You're

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Speaker 1: incredibly busy, you're studying all the time, you're working really

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Speaker 1: hard to you know, become an attorney and whatnot. But

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Speaker 1: it is, it's like such a it's so in the

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Speaker 1: culture now that even college students are doing it. In

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Speaker 1: college is supposed to be at the time when it's

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Speaker 1: like the easiest to date and make friends because you're

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Speaker 1: surrounded by people like you, Well, would you rather go

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Speaker 1: to a party? And well, it's also it's going to

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Speaker 1: depend on your introversion or extra version. But it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you can go out of your way to strike up

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Speaker 1: a conversation with someone, to go to a party, go

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Speaker 1: to a mixer, go to a show, or you could

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Speaker 1: download an app and start swiping away on the bus

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Speaker 1: in downtime and class in your pajamas while you're on

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Speaker 1: the toilet. Let's be honest, I'm sure that happens all

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Speaker 1: the time. Um So, I think that convenience is a

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Speaker 1: big part of it. But before we get into the

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Speaker 1: few what what this implies to our face to face

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Speaker 1: dating lives. First, let's take a trip back in time

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Speaker 1: to the history of online dating how we got to

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Speaker 1: where we are now, because there's some pretty fascinating milestones

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Speaker 1: way back from college students in the late nineteen fifties

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Speaker 1: tinkering around with old school computers, all the way up

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Speaker 1: to today in the era of Grinder and Tender. And

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Speaker 1: we'll come right back with that info after a quick break.

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Speaker 1: So where we get into the future of online dating,

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Speaker 1: we've got to talk about the past, see where we

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Speaker 1: have come from, And essentially we came from way back

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Speaker 1: in the seventeen hundreds the emergence of printing, and pretty

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Speaker 1: pretty much as soon as people started printing things, they

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Speaker 1: started printing personal ads looking for mates. Right, So, you guys,

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Speaker 1: it's never been easy, it's really Yeah, dating has always

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Speaker 1: been the worst. It's been kind of the worst and

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Speaker 1: a bit of a conundrum, especially in times where maybe

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Speaker 1: there are imbalanced sex ratios or you're in a remote place. Um,

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Speaker 1: So we've always basically been on the hunt for mates

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Speaker 1: and have been trying to use services to help us

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Speaker 1: do that. So for a long time, personal ads were it.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting that the nineties seventies were apparently the

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Speaker 1: heyday of personal ads, even though only about one percent

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Speaker 1: of married couples of the time actually met through personal ads.

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Speaker 1: That was kind of kind of hottest away to outside

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Speaker 1: of meeting people just face to face. Um, that was

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Speaker 1: folks did. And in the nineteen eighties, Caroline, welcome to

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Speaker 1: video dating. Oh god, I want to see some of

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Speaker 1: those videos. How many do you think had mullets? How

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Speaker 1: many do you think we're wearing neon or windbreaker suits?

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Speaker 1: I just I'm so I want to watch these so

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Speaker 1: badly Google that. I mean, it's it's Internet gold for today.

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Speaker 1: But even by the seventies and the eighties, computer dating,

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Speaker 1: like the very earliest kind of computer program set up

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Speaker 1: to match people had already started a while before. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine, there was a Stanford University class project

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Speaker 1: in a math course called Happy Families Planning Services, which

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Speaker 1: sounds almost sinister to me. It does, um, but they

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Speaker 1: programmed an IBM six fifty computer with forty nine men

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Speaker 1: and women's personal data to match them up. One marriage

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Speaker 1: came out of that, okay, and I got an A

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Speaker 1: in the class side note, Um, so that's one of

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Speaker 1: the earliest kind of grassroots algorithms set up to try

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Speaker 1: to match people. And although once they h it didn't

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Speaker 1: work too well because they had these forty nine men

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Speaker 1: forty nine women, and it would start out with like

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Speaker 1: the top tiers, so the people who matched really well

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Speaker 1: were perfect. So by the time you got down to

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Speaker 1: like the man and woman, it was basically like, well,

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Speaker 1: you you're both breathing, go hang out. You have all

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Speaker 1: the necessary bits. Yeah, so so not the most perfect

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Speaker 1: also very small sample size, but not the most perfect algorithm.

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Speaker 1: But then you see in NIVE this thing called operation

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Speaker 1: match pops up among a group of Harvard students who

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Speaker 1: set up a similar personality based um computer dating system.

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Speaker 1: But the problem with all these super old school computer

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Speaker 1: services was that the computers were so slow. They had

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Speaker 1: a really hard time processing all of this data about

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Speaker 1: different people. So really they couldn't keep up with demand,

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Speaker 1: so they didn't I mean until the technology uh improved

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Speaker 1: online dating just obviously online dating couldn't happen because the

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Speaker 1: Internet didn't exist, but this computer based dating couldn't really

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Speaker 1: exist until computers were working a little bit faster. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and once they were. We have three phases, starting with

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Speaker 1: online personal ad sites that started which started with match

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Speaker 1: dot com Match, which I also tried, but it wasn't

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Speaker 1: my cup of tea. Yeah, I know, I've never tried

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Speaker 1: match now. Um. The second phase of computer based dating

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Speaker 1: would be algorithm based sites, starting with e Harmony in

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Speaker 1: two thousand. Interesting tidbit of useless information. A friend of mine,

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Speaker 1: like an old coworker, signed up for e harmony and

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Speaker 1: you don't have to answer like four questions about yourself.

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Speaker 1: At the end of like the hour long answering question period,

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Speaker 1: e harmony was like, sorry, bro, we can't match you.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, they did that for a while. If you

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Speaker 1: were gay, Oh well he that was charming. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: know exactly. He was a straight man looking for a lady.

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Speaker 1: He is happily married with a son. Now, good for him, congratulations.

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Speaker 1: But it was almost like I had to laugh to

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Speaker 1: myself a little bit. That would be that would be

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Speaker 1: a depressing moment. Super he was super super down about it. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: Third phase we have that we're in kind of the

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Speaker 1: thick of is mobile app dating and thanks to the

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Speaker 1: launch of the Apple App Store. Yeah, that happened in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, and we should attribute these three

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Speaker 1: phases of computer based dating to Eli Finkel, who is

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Speaker 1: an online dating scholar UM out of Northwestern University. He

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Speaker 1: also published a really comprehensive study in February two thousand

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Speaker 1: twelve on more of the science of online dating, looking

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Speaker 1: at whether or not it actually works. Has it really

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Speaker 1: improved our face to face dating outcomes? Um? And And

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Speaker 1: we'll get to his findings because again they are not

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Speaker 1: to overuse word fascinating as I do, but they're quite fascinating, Caroline. UM.

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Speaker 1: But we have in this time, especially thanks to sites

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Speaker 1: like okay Cupid that are very data rich and they

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Speaker 1: get a lot of information from their users because users

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Speaker 1: also generate and answer so many questions that it works

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Speaker 1: into their algorithm. So we have all of this data

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Speaker 1: now about the habits of online datas, what works in

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Speaker 1: online dating. Profiles are just kind of how we use

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Speaker 1: these things. So what have we learned? I mean, aside

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Speaker 1: from the fact that you can pretty much find an

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Speaker 1: online dating service or app for any type of person,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the niche potential is just never ending. And

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Speaker 1: I love the data pile that okay Cupid has accumulated. Um.

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Speaker 1: They talked about men with the highest attractiveness ratings over

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Speaker 1: on their website, and those men with the highest ratings

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Speaker 1: had the words surfing, surf, yoga, skiing, and the ocean

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Speaker 1: most often. Yeah, and for women it's London, n y

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Speaker 1: C Yoga, surfing an athlete. So, as you might be

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Speaker 1: guessing right now, surfing and yoga are the hottest pastimes

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Speaker 1: on okay Cupid. Yeah, so I've got a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are like running to their computers and just typing

427
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: like surfing and yoga over and over again, photo shopping

428
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: a surfboard into their profile. Pick that's taken like in

429
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: an indoor location. Probably um radio head side note is

430
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 1: the hottest band. There's also some interesting stuff with language play.

431
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: Cats for instance, is more attractive than my cats. Also,

432
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: men who use the word whome more attractive to women.

433
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: And for a little gender e note, it's twenty eight

434
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: percent better they found for men to refer to women

435
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: as women compared to referring to them as girls. However,

436
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,479
Speaker 1: it is sixteen percent better for women to refer to

437
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: themselves as girls rather than women. And that interesting, so interesting,

438
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 1: So we perceive men more favorably apparently when they refer

439
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: to us as women, yet we come across at least

440
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: more favorably when we refer to ourselves as girls. Harkens

441
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: back to our Ladies podcast. That's right. Well, so talking

442
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: about all this data and all these percentages, a lot

443
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: of this is hyper focused on straight couples, men and

444
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: women getting together on these sites and these apps. But

445
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: when you look at that staff that we sided earlier,

446
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: that LGBT couples are meeting online, I mean that is significant.

447
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: So let's now look at at the apps and sites

448
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: that are dedicated to them. First up, let's talk about Grinder.

449
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: I mean, Grinder is the superstar of dating apps, because

450
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: not all only is. I mean, it's been like successful

451
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 1: numbers wise. A lot of guys use it to find

452
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: other guys, but guys also spend so much time on Grinder.

453
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: I was watching the HBO show looking about its focus

454
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 1: mostly on like gay guys in San Francisco, and much

455
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: of the plot line I feels feel like revolves around

456
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: them being on Grinder and meeting guys on Grinder and

457
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: even played a role in a Girls episode. Yeah yeah,

458
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's kind of a cultural phenomenon. Well

459
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 1: it should be I mean, as of March and amassed

460
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: more than five million users who were spending an average

461
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: of ninety minutes a day on it. Guys, ninety minutes

462
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: a day. It's amazing. I know, I feel like you

463
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 1: could be writing a novel in that time. Um but so,

464
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 1: Jamie Wou wrote a book called Meet Grinder, How One

465
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: App Changed the Way We Connect. Jamie said that it

466
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: has completely and possibly permanently altered the way that app

467
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: developers and users think about location based service is because,

468
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: like Tinder, kind of Grinder is sort of the big

469
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: brother version that it's like on hyperlocation service steroids. It

470
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: helps you find someone who's nearby so that you can

471
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: masically can have coffee. That's yep, that's exactly what I

472
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: was about to say. Um but uh Wu talks about

473
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: how the fact that it's so fast and it can

474
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: facilitate intimacy, I'll just put it that way. So fast

475
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: it's immensely appealing in their apps out there, who were

476
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: like tripping over themselves to try to replicate that success. Yeah,

477
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: and in the one way that the makers of Grinder

478
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: did not replicate that success so much was with Blender,

479
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: which they basically made it as a straight version of Grinder.

480
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: But they quickly realized that, oh, this geolocation thing isn't

481
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: as appealing to straight women because men tend to use

482
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: online aiding and online dating sites and apps more often,

483
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: They spend more time look at more profiles, I think

484
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: three times more profiles than women do. Also, not surprisingly

485
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: because of you know, heateronormative dating sort of archetypes, men

486
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: are a lot also a lot likelier to initiate contact

487
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: with women, and so you combine that with knowing where

488
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: women are, and a lot of women felt very unsafe. Yeah. Yeah.

489
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: There was a story in the Boston Globe that talked

490
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: about how a lot of industry executives themselves are saying, yeah,

491
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: this is one hurdle we don't know how to get around.

492
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: Women just aren't as comfortable being like I am at

493
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: this specific address in this specific town, because there are

494
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: fears that you will get stocked, or someone will come

495
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: find you or watch you, or know where you are.

496
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I get creeped out with the location settings

497
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: on Instagram. Yeah, I don't. I'm not a huge fan

498
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: of of geolocation, so four square, for instance, not my bag.

499
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: Some people love it, but I don't. I don't want

500
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: the internet to know where I am at all times.

501
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: I don't me there, even though it probably already does

502
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: it for sure? Does somebody's always feel lax? Mark Zuckerberg

503
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: is watching us right Now's right? Um So, like we said,

504
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: Blender not a successful I mean, they have a ton

505
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: of subscribers, but the reason why Tinder has been more

506
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: successful is because it's not as focused on Hey, I'm

507
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: right here, who's around me right now? Um? So, Grinder

508
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: has been really successful. But there's also been this question

509
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: too of well, is there a way to replicate Grinder

510
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: for lesbians because there hasn't been like massive success in

511
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: the same way as Grinder has been so successful for

512
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: gay guys for lesbians, and it's partially because there is

513
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: this particular problem that comes up with lesbian targeted dating

514
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: apps and sites, and that is cat fishing by street guys.

515
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: So awful, man, Come on. Um So, there are a

516
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: number of lesbian apps out there. There's Dodged, which originally

517
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: was just a European based app, but it has recently

518
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: launched in San Francisco, so you're probably gonna be seeing

519
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: it in more areas of the US if it is successful,

520
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: and it has sort of a Pinterest esque uh interface

521
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: where it's focused obviously on a lot of photos, but

522
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: it's not just what your face looks like, but also

523
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,239
Speaker 1: like things that you like, what your house looks like,

524
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: kind of what you're what you're into. And it does

525
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: not emphasize the location services, right, that's a that's another

526
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: hallmark which is interesting to see. Um for these lesbian

527
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: dating app models, not any of them. I don't think

528
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: that I've found are as geolocation based as grinder is.

529
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: And in addition to dis she's also find her that's

530
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: her with two rs, their Scissor and then my favorite

531
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,719
Speaker 1: of all, and I have not obviously I've not a lesbian.

532
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: I haven't used this site before, but the name just

533
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: makes me laugh. It's there's one called Brenda, which and

534
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: I'm I'm laughing about this too because I read a

535
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: review of lesbian dating apps over on the after Ellen

536
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,239
Speaker 1: site and she finally got down to Brenda and her

537
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: comment was essentially like Brenda. Really no offense to Brenda's

538
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: out there, but it's not the It's not the sexiest

539
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: sounding app. Sure, it sounds like an eighties businesswoman maybe

540
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: with shoulder pads, maybe doing it some video dating, and

541
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: like the founder of Dodge for instance, said like, look,

542
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: you can't just take Grinder and reframe it for women,

543
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: Like you can't just make Grinder pink and then gear

544
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: it towards women, whether they're straight or lesbians, because women

545
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: are just looking for different things from their online and

546
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: app services. Yeah, and it is unfortunate though that that

547
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: I think that was the same developer who said that

548
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: they have to be on quote unquote penis duty because

549
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: there are men who will um create fake accounts posing

550
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: as other lesbians and either you know, maybe in a

551
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: shape contact, maybe just kind of troll around on the

552
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: site to see who's out there, maybe actually try to

553
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: set up dates to see if these women would be

554
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: interested in having sex with them. Um, So it's a

555
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: it's a big problem for these sites. And Scissor actually

556
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: requires a validation plug in that includes personal information to

557
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: ensure that guys aren't infiltrating their ranks. And they emphasize

558
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: that this is not an anti man thing at all,

559
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: it's just, hey, we want to make sure that this

560
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: is a safe space for women who are looking for

561
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: women and that should be okay. And so for scissor

562
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: for instance, like you have to have a driver's license

563
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: in order to use it, as opposed to a lot

564
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: of these where it's hooked up via Facebook. And guess

565
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: what's easy to set up a fake Facebook account? Yeah, exactly. Well,

566
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: so you know, the one thing that developers are trying

567
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: to figure out, and I mean this is taking it

568
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: back out a little more generally, is is what do

569
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 1: women want? I mean that seems to be a question

570
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 1: in life, but specifically in dating apps and sites. Um

571
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 1: And Friedman, writing in The New Yorker, looked at this

572
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: and she said, if you look at the precious few

573
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: dating sites and apps with female founders, a pattern emerges.

574
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: Women want authenticity, privacy, and more controlled environment and a

575
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: quick path to a safe, easy, offline meeting. She cites

576
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: the app Coffee Meets Bagel, which is like almost like

577
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: a friendlier version of Tender or grinder. Like you, you're

578
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: still flipping through, but it kind of puts the keys

579
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,720
Speaker 1: in the hand of the woman who's looking through. Um Cara, sorry,

580
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: who's looking through? Jessica Carbino, who's a PhD candidate in

581
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: sociology at u c l A studies online dating, and

582
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: Freeman quotes are saying, you know, a lot of people

583
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: UH want to meet organically. They know that online dating

584
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: is important, but they still don't like it. They want to,

585
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: you know, have it be more organic offline. Um. So

586
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: she says that if you had a mobile app to

587
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: let people know where men who meet their their criteria

588
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: are and let women initiate it, it it could work as

589
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: long as the women feel comfortable. Because what comes up

590
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: again and again and some of these things we were

591
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,919
Speaker 1: reading is like a lot of the straight women being

592
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: intervieweders saying, you know, I I want to still feel

593
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: like the woman in the situation. I don't necessarily want

594
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 1: to approach the man. And so there's a degree of like, okay,

595
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: well you want to have control, but you don't want

596
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 1: to approach a man. So how do we create an

597
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: app that like makes everybody comfortable? But there are some

598
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 1: people who are saying that Tinder is doing that because

599
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 1: there's this whole emphasis. There are so many articles too

600
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: on Tinder is you know, just a woman's playland. It's

601
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: a feminist dream come true because you can know the

602
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: swipe men away or keep them around and sorry, folks,

603
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: that's not feminism. But but there it is a little

604
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: more equal opportunity dating, whereas with something like Okay Cupid,

605
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: it's a little more formal. I feel like, I feel

606
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: like it falls back more on, you know, stereotypes of

607
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,720
Speaker 1: men needing to make the initial approach, whereas with Tinder,

608
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: maybe because it's a little more hook up oriented, it

609
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter as much. Yeah, but Amanda hess Over

610
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: at Slate did take issue with Tender being called feminist

611
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: or any of these types of mobile apps being called feminist,

612
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: because having women treat men as disposable is not an

613
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 1: equal opportunity thing. It's it's not that's having women treatment

614
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: as disposable just like men due to women on these

615
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: dating sides that does. That's not equality, that's just more

616
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: like meat market mentality. Right. The focus on the disposability

617
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: is is it's anti feminist. What would be more feminists is, yeah,

618
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: we should everybody should be you know, as empowered, and

619
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: it should be as socially acceptable to ask a person noel.

620
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: You shouldn't be socially penalized for being a forward woman

621
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: if you want to be. And on kind of a

622
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: side note with this whole feminism tie in, they're clearly

623
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: trying to market based on that, and in Australia they

624
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: did a marketing campaign alongside Amnesty International, which is a

625
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:36,280
Speaker 1: lotable organization, but the whole marketing campaign was focused on, Hey, women,

626
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 1: aren't you glad you have Tinder because child brides exist

627
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: and they don't get to choose, they can't swipe away

628
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: their older husbands, which was just like, no, no, nope,

629
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: let's that's not nope, that's let's not do that. Yeah. Um.

630
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: There was an article about this in the Telegraph and

631
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: the writer was like, uh, this is kind of a sticky,

632
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: icky situation advertising in this anner saying these various things.

633
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: And while the Tinder founder does say that it's part

634
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 1: of our mission to empower women, the Telegraph writer was

635
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: basically saying, you're not really empowering anyone women. It's just

636
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 1: it's using an kind of abusing a cause to sell

637
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: something to you know, perfectly privileged white people. A lot

638
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: of times. I don't know. I I was a bit

639
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: aghast at that. Um. But some some female listeners might

640
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: have heard of another dating service. It's not necessarily it's

641
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: not exactly a dating app, but it is a service

642
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: that is also has been lauded as you know, twenty

643
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: one century of feminism. It's called Lulu, and what it

644
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: is is a guy rating app. It's kind of like

645
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: Yelp for dudes, where it's also hooked up via Facebook.

646
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: So women go on and they rate guys that they

647
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: know with a series of just so that they can't

648
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 1: go on Yelp style and just rant about men. There

649
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,479
Speaker 1: are a series of pre selected hashtags so that if

650
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 1: you find a guy online and you don't know him

651
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: I r L, you can go on Lulu, see if

652
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 1: he's in there, and see what other women have to

653
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: say about him. But as Amanda has also points out, hey,

654
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: this actually isn't so great because this is not consensual

655
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: on the guy's part. And what would we be saying

656
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: if there was an app for rating women? We would

657
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 1: be up in arms about that, right, and I would

658
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: not want to see the hashtags associated with my profile.

659
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: But the existence of Lulu does point to one potential

660
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: pitfall of online dating, which is that there it would

661
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 1: be helpful to have a kind of rating system because

662
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: as much as you might mesh online, as much as

663
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: your interests might aligne, once you're sitting down face to

664
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: face with a person, which is important to do almost

665
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: as quickly as possible. Grinder does get that right, because

666
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: psychologists have found that the longer you draw out your

667
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: online communication before meeting in person kinda, the more you're

668
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: setting yourself up for major disappointment. There's something called the

669
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: hyper personal effect. We're in. You see this perfect online profile,

670
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: so he must be perfect, and then you realize, well,

671
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: he's not perfect or she's not perfect. Um So where

672
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: the need for something like Lulu comes in is the

673
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: fact that online dating doesn't It doesn't account for those

674
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: variables of just like any blind date of you don't

675
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: actually know exactly how it's going to go, and we

676
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: want to, you know, mitigate the chance of disaster. Sure,

677
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 1: so we we rely on dating site algorithms, things like

678
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: answering all of this foreign questions, any harmony to tell

679
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: us this person is definitely going to be my mate.

680
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: They they're obviously per we have like a nine match

681
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: score or whatever. But those algorithms don't really work because

682
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 1: they're only matching things like interests, values, attributes, rather than

683
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: how you two are going to get along in long

684
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 1: term situations. And I mean that's a criticism and it's legitimate,

685
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: but it's also like, how could you expect it to

686
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: match you to a long term partner? Really? Yeah, I

687
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: mean and and that's also the conclusion of this Northwestern

688
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: study UM led by Eli Finkel that we've referenced a

689
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 1: few times. And there, I mean, there's as much as okay,

690
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: Cupid or match or whomever hails their algorithm, there is,

691
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: there's just no scientific data to back it up. And

692
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 1: a lot of them, like the Harmony, are very proprietary

693
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: over this secret algorithm. It's like the coke formula. You know,

694
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: they don't they don't want to let anybody know what

695
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,839
Speaker 1: those supposedly secret ingredients are. It turns out that as

696
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: you type in your answers to these harmony algorithms, they

697
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: just go into a room with like a bunch of

698
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: ducks stomping around on computer anymore. It's true, um. And

699
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: he also points out to that there's this issue with

700
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: the deluge problem. There are so many people now who

701
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: are online dating that it almost presents this paradox of

702
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: choice of like, uh, you know, you walk into a

703
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 1: grocery store with like a million different kinds of cereal.

704
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: The more kinds of cereal there are the harder it

705
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: is to actually pick out a cereal, whereas if you

706
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 1: just walk in and there's only corn flakes, you're gonna

707
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: go home with corn flakes. But some people are worried,

708
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: They're like, what if there's something better out there than

709
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: corn flakes? Because having all of these choices, you know

710
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: that that starts to lead to all of these you know,

711
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 1: critics of online dating who are saying that it's ruining

712
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: our society because no one's gonna stay married anymore, or

713
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: no one's gonna get married in the first place anymore,

714
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: And and like, okay, logically, in a black and white world, like,

715
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: I see where your argument is coming from. I see that,

716
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: Like having all these endless choices makes you think, oh,

717
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: I can do one better and one better. But what

718
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: online dating doesn't change is your inherent values. If you

719
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: want to get married, if you want to have a committed,

720
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: long term relationship with one person, go on to have children,

721
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, grow old all that good stuff. You're

722
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 1: still probably going to do that. Also, when did people

723
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: start staying married for forever? When did that? When? When

724
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: did that divorce rate go down so far? Right? Yeah,

725
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: people are really convinced that in the next couple of years,

726
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,720
Speaker 1: we're gonna start seeing ridiculous divorce rates and and marriage

727
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: is going to become outdated, and we're just going to

728
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: continue to date until we're decrepit. Like one. So in

729
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: this januariece in The Atlantic, the writer quotes um one,

730
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: founder of one of these online dating apps, and the

731
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: guy was like, Yeah, I'm forty and I'm still dating.

732
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: If I lived in Iowa, i'd have four kids by now.

733
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: And it's like, would you. Yeah. Well, here's here's this

734
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: sticky issue with online dating because the fact the matter is,

735
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: these are businesses, and these are businesses capitalizing on this

736
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: very particular and persistent issue of people wanting to either

737
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 1: have sex or to have sex with the same person

738
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: over and over again, and every time they're successful, they

739
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: lose two clients. So, as Eli Finkel points out, it's

740
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,240
Speaker 1: ultimately going to be in the best interests of online

741
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: dating services to keep a steady pool of single people. So,

742
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that you know, the people

743
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: who started Grinder or Okay, cube it or whomever are

744
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: evil and want us to, you know, to keep us

745
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: shackled to our single hood. But the convenient thing is

746
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: that they can't eliminate all of the variables and figure

747
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 1: out how exactly to perfectly match people up, because nobody can.

748
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: That's absolutely impossible to do. Otherwise someone would have already

749
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: done it and they would be a b jillionaire and

750
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: life would be a lot more boring, because if you

751
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: take chance out of romance, then what would we write

752
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: love songs about? Right? Right? And to be honest, that

753
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: very aspect was a big reason why I only online

754
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: dated for a brief period of time, because when I

755
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: would go on dates, there was no mystery about it.

756
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: It was I mean, this was also reflective of just

757
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: the time in my life. I don't think I was

758
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: necessarily looking for a long term relationship, and I think

759
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: that colored my perception as well. But once I was

760
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: there with these guys, it was like there was it

761
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: was already set up. You know, we were there for

762
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: this purpose and it wasn't as exciting. And one thing

763
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: I think, uh, you know, depending on your approach or

764
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: whatever to online dating, I mean, one thing that makes

765
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: me sad about the process, or made me sad about

766
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 1: the process, was that, like let's say you meet someone

767
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: organically out whether through friends or work or whatever, like

768
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: chances are you'll kind of get a feel for the

769
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: person and maybe if it doesn't work out romantically, you're

770
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: still going to end up being friends with them. But

771
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: online dating, that's like, that's not gonna happen. It's like

772
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 1: you go out on a date with somebody that you

773
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 1: met on Okay Cupid, match blah blah blah. You're there

774
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: for one purpose and one purpose only, and that is

775
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: to freaking fall in love. And so the first date

776
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: I ever went on from okay Cupid was this guy

777
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: who was incredibly cool and nice, and we had so

778
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: much in common, but there just weren't sparks. And the

779
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: thing is, I would love even now, would love to

780
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: be friends with that dude, because he's a very interesting,

781
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 1: accomplished gentleman. But that just wasn't gonna happen because we

782
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: were only there for one purpose, and that was to

783
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: figure out if we were going to fall in love

784
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,280
Speaker 1: and have babies or whatever. Yeah, I mean, and for

785
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: all of these potential downsides, which are really it's not

786
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 1: a judgment against online dating. Online dating hasn't changed the

787
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: product that we're looking for. Really, it's just changed the

788
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 1: way we shop for it, um. But Eli Finkel did

789
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,439
Speaker 1: not completely completely throw online dating under the bus because

790
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: we're not um. But the fact of the matter is

791
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: it has at least opened up this new marketplace. It

792
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: is easier to meet people. Whether those people are going

793
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: to be long term or not, who knows. But especially

794
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 1: if you look at the LGBT community for instance, and

795
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: how incredible of a tool online dating has been, especially

796
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: in you know, past times, not so long ago, where

797
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: or for people who are living in not so progressive

798
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,479
Speaker 1: areas to be able to be out and to meet

799
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: other people and to have that access right there, that

800
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: is an incredible, you know progression. But online dating is

801
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: never going to solve all of our romantic woes. Oh no.

802
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 1: If anything, it's just like the hydra. You you get

803
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: rid of one problem, which is like access to meeting people,

804
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: it just creates fifty more. Yeah. Um, So what do

805
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: you think do we toss it to listeners now? Absolutely?

806
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 1: I would love to hear your online dating stories, because

807
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: I know you have some weird one. I want to

808
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: hear online dating stories. Oh we we didn't even get

809
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: into all the different kinds of niche dating um sites

810
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: and apps out there. If anyone has used one of

811
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: the specific like farmers looking for farmers. I'm not just

812
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: saying only these, but for instance, there there's one for farmers.

813
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 1: There's one. There's obviously like bigger ones like J Day.

814
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: There's even one that matches you up based on your

815
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: candy preferences, which I don't think I have a big

816
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 1: enough sweets I would never I would never end up

817
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: dating anyone if I did that, because I have a

818
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: total sweet tooth and a lot of the guys have

819
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: dated could take chocolate or leave it. So what does

820
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: that I mean? What does that mean? It means you

821
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: and I would just hang out together and eat chocolate. Perfect. Um.

822
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: So please share your online dating stories have you? Are

823
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: you an online dating success story because it absolutely works?

824
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: Or do you have horror stories to share? We love

825
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: to hear them because guess what, we all have them now. Yeah,

826
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: So send us your stories mom stuff at Discovery dot

827
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: com or just tweet us at mom Stuff podcast, or

828
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: send us a message over once book. And we have

829
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,439
Speaker 1: a couple of messages this year with you right now

830
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:09,919
Speaker 1: about beer because after a bad date, you need a beer, right,

831
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: that's right? Well, I have a letter here from Haley,

832
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: who lives in Wellington, New Zealand, which is a craft

833
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: beer crazy city. She says, I am a female beer

834
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 1: tender and my partner is a brewer, so drinking beer,

835
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: serving beer, and talking about beer is a huge part

836
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 1: of my day to day life. The craft beer industry

837
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: is much more lady friendly than commercial big beer, but

838
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 1: we still have a long way to go. I'd take

839
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 1: great pride in explaining to people who use the term

840
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: girly beer that no such thing exists because less time

841
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: I checked, we do not imbibe what is in our

842
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: point via our vagina. My male co workers also do

843
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: their bit by passing on to me customers who look

844
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: passed me originally and intentionally wait for recommendations from a

845
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 1: bearded man behind the bar instead. Also, I love that

846
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 1: in an American accent you can hear difference between beer

847
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: and bear, because in our humble Kiwi accents they sound

848
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 1: exactly the same. Let's go to New Zealand and have

849
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:12,720
Speaker 1: a bear. That's right, bear, as beer just sounds really Southern. Bear.

850
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: Let's have a bear Caroline bear. Yeah, so fun with accents. Well,

851
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:22,240
Speaker 1: I have a letter here from Joshua and he has

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00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: recommendations for us, some crafty recommendations. He says, to start,

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00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: it really comes down to preferred styles. I'm generally very

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00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 1: seasonal with what I drink, and I also like to

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00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: try and pair a beer or style with what I'm eating,

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00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: as it can really make a difference. He also noted

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00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: that since you and I both talked about how we

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00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 1: like I p A s, he started out with some

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00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: I p A recommendations, and unfortunately I can't read all

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00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: the recommendations that he had, but among the I p

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00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: as Hetty Hopper from the Alchemist Brewery he says is

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00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 1: the absolute, hands down best I p A he's ever had.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately you can't buy it outside of Vermont. He also

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00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: recommends Plenty the Elder from Russian River, Lunch from Main

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Speaker 1: Brewing Company, and Resin and Hires from six Point. He

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00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: says both of those are very hoppy, and since we

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00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: also talked about how sours um are a unfamiliar to

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00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: both of our palates but are apparently popular among lady drinkers,

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Speaker 1: he recommends Supplication and Consecration from Russian River Breweries and

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00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 1: Monks Cafe Flemish sour Ale, which is a great sour

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00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: and easy to get. So, Joshua, thank you for all

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00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: of those recommendations. I'm rushing out after this recording. I'm

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00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: going to try sours this weekend. I'm gonna do what Caroline.

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00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: I have a bear and have a sour bear. So

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Speaker 1: thanks again to everybody who's written into us. Mom Stuff

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00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com is our email address, and if

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00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: you want to find us on social or find all

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00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: of our blogs, podcasts, and videos, head on over to

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00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never Told You dot com. For more on

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00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: the and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com