1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,000 Speaker 1: Guess what will what's that man go? Do you know 2 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: that romance writer Barbara Cartland? Yeah, well, did you know 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: she put out a cookbook in the nineteen eighties. It's 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: called The Romance of Food and it is amazing. I 5 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 1: found it from that wonderful site Messy, Messy and and 6 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: it's basically all these so called romantic meals photographed in 7 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: the most surreal way, like they're bright technicolor backgrounds, and 8 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: each dish is surrounded by Barbara's kitchy porcelain dolls and figurines. 9 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: I guess it's all weird stuff she had around her house. 10 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: It is so creepy. And are these her recipes or what? 11 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: I guess there were her personal chefs. But here, take 12 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: a look at this. Aren't those pictures ridiculous? And she 13 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: wrote these sultry descriptions for each meal. So here's her 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: pitch for lamb with baby vegetables quote, what woman does 15 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: not long to be carried like a lamb in the 16 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: arms of the man she loves? I haven't seen it 17 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: for years. And here's our description for special strawberry ice 18 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: cream quote, as e found in the garden of Eden. 19 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: Fruit isn't exciting? Temptations such a naughty cookbook. But by 20 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: reading about Barbara Cartland's cookbook made me wonder, what are 21 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: the other super strange cookbooks out there? What's the oldest 22 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: cookbook on record? And how does celebrity chefs pump out 23 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: so many cookbooks every year? So those are some of 24 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: the big questions we'll be tackling. Why don't we dive 25 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: in anyway? Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson 26 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: and as always I'm joined by my good friend man 27 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: guest Ticketer and sitting behind that soundproof glass bragging about 28 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: his brand new George Foreman grill as our producer Tristan McNeil. 29 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: What are we on like our two of bragging. I 30 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: know it's a good grill. We get it, Tristan. It's 31 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: very functional, very functional, And I know we could sit 32 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: here and keep complimenting Tristan's grill forever. We'll do more 33 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: of that after we finished this episode. But but let's 34 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: talk cookbooks. The cookbooks are so prevalent in our lives. 35 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: I mean, there's something you don't really think to contemplate, 36 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: but you know it's strange. They're essentially these instruction manuals 37 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: for how to use food. I mean, that's such a 38 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: weird way to put it, but I guess you're right. 39 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like if an alien came to Earth, 40 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: that's how they'd refer to them, like food instruction manuals. 41 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: But that's actually part of what's so interesting about cookbooks, right, 42 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: I mean, they're basically these documents of how we eat, 43 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: or at least how we want to eat. Yeah, and 44 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: and also how we used to eat. I mean, I 45 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: think we should get into this a little bit later, 46 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: because it's fascinating to look at how cookbooks from like 47 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: imperialist Russia talk about households in a very different way 48 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: than cookbooks that came out from maybe like the Great Depression, 49 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: and even how we write recipes changes from era to era. 50 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: So how do you mean, Well, I was reading this 51 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: article from The Economist about how cookbooks have evolved and 52 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: transformed with the times. In the sixteen hundreds, of British 53 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: cookbook advised cooks to quote heat water until it was 54 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: a little hotter than milk that comes from a cow. 55 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: And those weren't vague directions, I mean they're very specific. 56 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: So essentially any cook or kitchen hand at the time 57 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: would have some knowledge of farm life. So a little 58 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: hotter than milk as it comes out of the cow's 59 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 1: utter meant a specific temperature too that it's so weird. Yeah, 60 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: and and and that's how recipes were written until the 61 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: Industrial Revolution a couple of hundred years later, you know, 62 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: when people were separated from their rural roots. That's pretty crazy. 63 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: So I know you and your family enjoy cooking, but 64 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: I can't remember. Do you have a lot of cookbooks around? 65 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: There's definitely a few that we used frequently, and then 66 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: way too many that just kind of sit there on 67 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: the shells. But what about you guys? Are you big 68 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: cookbook users? Yeah, well we're the same way. Like we 69 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: used to live in a small apartment with too many cookbooks, 70 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: and after we Marie condoed the place, we only kept 71 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: the essentials. But I mean, I I do like to cook, 72 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: and I'm a sucker for beautiful cookbooks, like I have 73 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: this Jerusalem cookbook that I use a lot, and this 74 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: old Market Bitman cookbook that's really warm. But mostly cookbooks 75 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: are aspirational for me. I kind of like just having 76 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: them around. And why is that? Are like are the 77 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: recipes too hard or just intimidating or what. Yeah, I 78 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: mean it's a little of that. And as much as 79 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: I like things like the Momo Fuku cookbook or whatever, 80 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not gonna cold smoke wings and make 81 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: ramen unless it's a really special occasion, especially since we 82 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: have ramen downstairs. I mean, it's kind of the same 83 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: way I think about foreign films and how they sit 84 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: on my Netflix cue. Like, I totally intend to use 85 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: these books and make all these recipes when I have 86 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: time and the mood strikes, But instead I just make 87 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: nachos and watch Old Dirty Rocks every single time. Nacho 88 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: my life. Well, there's there's definitely an aspirational aspect to cookbooks. 89 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: But you know what's funny. I feel like I see 90 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: new cookbooks everywhere now. But you remember back around two 91 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: thousand and ten and tablets had just come out that 92 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: was supposed to be one of the things that was 93 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: going to die with the invention of tablets and such, 94 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: that they would go away. Yeah, but I mean, if 95 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: vinyl records can make a comeback, I guess anything can. 96 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: I I actually found some articles from around that same 97 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 1: time period and and the book industry was really worried 98 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: apparently like editors stopped making as many acquisitions. But but 99 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: then it turned out people really wanted their cookbooks in 100 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: dead tree form, and of course food appreciation went through 101 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: this all time hive. You know that there was that 102 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: farm to table movement that took off and Instagramming your 103 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: food and the popularity of food shows. Actually, I think 104 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: I might have already told you this, but last summer 105 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: we took our kids to this Italian restaurant and my son, 106 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: who was five then, had actually eaten nicely and behaved, 107 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: which is kind of a rarity. So we said to him, 108 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: if you'd like, you can have a slice of cake 109 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: for dessert, and he just looked at me and said, 110 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: is it a walnut cake? I was honestly so confused, 111 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: like I didn't even know walnut cake was a thing. 112 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: But apparently he had been sneaking off and watching The 113 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: Great British Bake Off on our iPad, just on the slide, 114 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: and he really got into the show and then into 115 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 1: baking and cooking, and he had very specific demands for 116 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: what you eat for dessert. I'm glad that that's what 117 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: he was sneaking often watching, rather than the Barbara Cartland 118 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: uh show. But well, clearly people of all ages have 119 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: been inspired by TV shows and this greater food movement 120 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: that you were talking about. But why don't we get 121 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: back to the cookbooks and and I want to get 122 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: some of the early cookbooks in the conversation. Of course, 123 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: I want to talk about some of the really important 124 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: ones that have shaped American cooking. But why don't we 125 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: warm up by listing, you know, maybe the strangest cookbook 126 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,799 Speaker 1: that each of us found, other than the Barbara Cartland 127 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: when you started the show, I'm a friend, what do 128 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: you find? Well, it's it's hard to choose what would 129 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: be the weirdest. I mean, there there are some weird ones, 130 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: like the Star Trek cookbooks and the one that I 131 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: think is just hilarious cooking with coolio and things like that. 132 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: But but the one that really stuck with me is 133 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: called Last Dinner on the Titanic. And that's a real cookbook. Yeah, 134 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: and it's meticulously researched and based off of real recipes, 135 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: including the ten course meals served in first class. It's 136 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: a beautiful book too. But as Bone Appetite puts it 137 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: in their review, quote, your inner history buff will be sated. 138 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: You may never be able to look at lobster thermidor 139 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: the same. Again, I have no idea what that means. 140 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: I have only one look for lobster Thermador. But I 141 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: love that. I mean, to me, the Titanic Cookbook feels 142 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: like the perfect book for a book club. Like if 143 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: I was in a book club or a cookbook club, 144 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: that'd be my first suggestion. Yeah, I'm with you on that, 145 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: I mean, So, what's your pick for weirdest cookbook? Well, 146 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: there are obviously a lot of funny cookbooks out there. 147 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: I've got a list of Um, there's a reason Mommy drinks. 148 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: There's an original road kill cookbook, which shouldn't be confused 149 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: with all the impost road kill cookbooks out there, right, 150 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: But but the craziest cookbook I found was Cooking with 151 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: the serial Killer. Have you heard of this? What is that? So? 152 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: This woman, Dorothea Puente was a serial killer who also 153 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: ran a boarding house. Apparently she worked her way up 154 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: in crime. She started by running a brothel, then she 155 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: started forging checks, and eventually she ran this boarding house 156 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: where she murdered the elder tenants so she could catch 157 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: in on their social security and she buried them in 158 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: her basement, and then with each body she put a 159 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: new layer of concrete floor over the bodies. It was 160 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: super elaborate. I can say she worked her way up, 161 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: like she she forged her signature on checks and then oh, yeah, 162 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: she became a serial killer. But then that's terrible. Yeah, 163 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: But but she also kept her tenants well fed. And 164 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: the weird thing is one that she has a book 165 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: of recipes out right. I mean, it came out in 166 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: two thousand and four and and it was basically through 167 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: her correspondence with a writer. And secondly, the Food Network 168 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: actually reviewed the thing and said, quote, the biggest surprise 169 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: of this are you freaking kidding us? Cookbook? Is the 170 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: recipes are actually pretty good. I mean, I guess it's 171 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: a good lesson for anyone trying to stereotype serial killers. 172 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: Killing isn't their only hobby, you guys. They have other 173 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: hobbies to multi talented. Well, all right, let's take this 174 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: back to the beginning for a second and maybe talk 175 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: about some of the ancient cookbooks. Definitely, so, I know 176 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: you looked into some of the early stuff, but what's 177 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: the earliest cookbook he found? Well, the first cookbook we 178 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: know of is is just three tablets long. That's tablets long, 179 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 1: and so it's way back from seventeen hundred b C. 180 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: And it's known as the Yale Culinary Tablets and it's 181 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: it's part of Yale's Babylonian collection. And the writing it's 182 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: actually all in Cuneiform. So what food recipes are on there? Like? 183 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: Have academics actually been able to decipher it? Apparently it's 184 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 1: like twenty five recipes for stu. I think it's supposed 185 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: to be very fancy stews, like the kind that we're 186 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: fit for Mesopotamian king, so it may be better than 187 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: it sounds. And but they're actually not real clear directions 188 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: or quantities listed on the tablets. Is just mainly just 189 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: a list of ingredients. So basically they're really old shopping 190 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: list for student. Yeah, pretty much. Well, I mean, seventeen 191 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: hundred BC is far older than I imagine for the 192 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: first cookbook. But where's it go from there? Well, the 193 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: best known ancient cookbook is probably a Pitious and it's 194 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,839 Speaker 1: nicknamed for the Gorman who used the number of the recipes, 195 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: and it's from the fourth century and it has another 196 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: title that translate as the art of Cooking or more 197 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: literally like maybe like concerning cookery. But for being the 198 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: first real Western cookbook, it's it's actually pretty organized. So 199 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: their ten chapters, including a section on ingredients, one on 200 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: the sea, one on the Careful Housekeeper. Apparently, and I've 201 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: only read about it, but it definitely gives us a 202 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: window into what the upper classes used to eat. So 203 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: what was that? It appears to be really gamy birds 204 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 1: like ostrich and flamingo, and more than cooking. It seems 205 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: like a lot of cooking tricks. You know from masking 206 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: how bad these birds And it's gross to think about, 207 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: but it makes sense when you think about it. And 208 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: according to the cookbook, you can smother their smell with very, 209 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: very very heavy sauces. As the economists pointed out, quote 210 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: one recipe explains that stale bird should be cooked in 211 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: a sauce of pepper lovage time meant hazelnuts, date, honey, vinegar, 212 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: fish sauce, wine, and mustard. Through that concoction, it would 213 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: be impossible to detect the stale smell, or indeed any 214 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: smell at all. I actually I can't imagine what that 215 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: concoction itself would have smelled, like dates, vinegar, and fish sauce. Also, 216 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: I see that Epicious added honey to everything. He used 217 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: to add honey to lobster even But I mean, is 218 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: stale flamingo coated in a strong sauce good? I mean, 219 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: it can't be right. And actually according to the people 220 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: who've tried to recreate it, they they say it's not 221 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: that good either. That the best that's been described. I 222 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: saw one that just said, interesting, you know that the 223 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: heavy duty sauce does seem to live up to its 224 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: reputation and mask any meat you put it on, and 225 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: so that I guess that part is good. But there's 226 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 1: some other old cookbooks that get talked about a lot. 227 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: There's one from China from the thirteen hundreds that features 228 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: an early version of peaking duck. One from ninety that 229 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: King Richard, the Seconds Master Cook assembled. It's called the 230 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: Form of Curry or Forms of Cooking and Modern English. 231 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: It has two hundred and five recipes and mixes spices 232 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: you know, like carnamon and nutmeg and ginger with meats 233 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: you probably haven't eaten. I mean, it's it's kind of 234 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: wild to read about some of these cranes heron ale. 235 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: But the thing I kept reading about all these cookbooks 236 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: is how much plagiarism there were in the recipes. That's weird. 237 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: So why is that? Well, even a picious is recipes 238 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: were clearly lifted from Greek and Roman foods, and it 239 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,959 Speaker 1: was a mix of styles. But the easiest ways to 240 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: spot the plagiarism is in the mistranslations. So according to 241 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: writer Mary Evans, there was a book printed in fifteen 242 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: nineties six and advised the cook and one recipe to 243 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: add three or four dates. By sixteen fifty three, when 244 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: the recipe was pinched by the author of a book 245 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: of Fruits and Flowers, the cook was told to set 246 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: the dish aside for three or four days. You can 247 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: see how the mistranslation happened over time. Yeah, that's funny. 248 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: But why don't we hit pause for a second then 249 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: get into some of America's favorite cookbooks after the break, 250 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: So Mango, We've got a special guest on the program today. 251 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: We've actually got the co editor of Leave Me Alone 252 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: with the Recipes, Sarah rich On. Sarah, welcome to Part 253 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: Time Genius. Thanks for having me today. It was all 254 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: about cookbooks and when I stumbled into this book, which 255 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: is co edited with the incredible illustrator, Wendy mcdonton. I 256 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: just couldn't believe how beautiful the book is. It has 257 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 1: this great origin story. So could you tell us a 258 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: little bit about that? Yeah? Absolutely. Um. The origin story 259 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: of the book is that about four years ago, UM, 260 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: Wendy and I we both lived in the Bay Area, 261 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: and we went to the San Francisco Antiquarian book Fair, 262 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: just kind of on a whim, and UM Wendy beat 263 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: me there and she was walking around and UM spotted 264 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: the guestbook sitting in a in a glass case like 265 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: propped open to um, a painting of worst Um, and 266 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 1: she was just really drawn to it. It felt familiar, 267 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 1: and it felt very current, and it sort of was 268 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: reminiscent of Mara Collman's work U, who of course is 269 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: very well known and a little bit like Wendy's work, 270 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: herself and other illustrators working today. And so she had 271 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: the bookseller pulled out of the case, and when she 272 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: looked more closely at it, realized that she was looking 273 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: at an original manuscript, a sketch book with actual original 274 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: gwash paintings in it, and had dozens of paintings, and 275 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: all the paintings were of recipes that had been hand 276 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: lettered with a quill and hand painted. Um. So she 277 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: called me. I was like on my way across the 278 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: bridge from Oakland and said, you know, hurry of you 279 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: have to get here and see this thing. Um. And 280 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: so when I arrived and looked at it, you know, 281 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: I was also totally struck by the by the art. 282 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: It's just so brilliant and has so much voice and 283 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: character and color. Um. But also for me it was 284 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: these recipes are you know, very traditional Eastern European Jewish recipes, 285 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: which is the food of my own family. Um. And 286 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: so as I looked through it, I felt struck by 287 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: the fact that not only did I know this food, um, 288 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: but it's not really the kind of food that you 289 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: find rendered in such a kind of celebratory, lively exciting way. 290 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: You know. I know that the fact that you start 291 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: with a Borsh recipe is amazing, like that's what drew Yeah, yeah, so, 292 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: and you know, it's in most a lot of food 293 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: that you know, having grown up with them and they 294 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: go back to generations in my family. You know, it's 295 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: kind of it's not the food you think of intcessarily 296 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: being the most exciting food. It's the food you think 297 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: of as being the most sort of comforting and nostalgic. 298 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: But she had created this celebration of this food, which 299 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: was so cool to see. UM. So we ended up 300 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: um signing out from the bookseller. We had never heard 301 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: of her. The bookseller said, oh, yeah, it was done. 302 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: It was done in by a woman named Cepi Panellis, 303 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: And we didn't know who she was, and you know 304 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: that they're googling on our phones, UM to discover that 305 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: she Although there wasn't too much available online about her, UM, 306 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: she has a little Wikipedia entry and uh, we learned 307 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: that she was the first female art director at Conde 308 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: nast Um And so then discovered that she had this 309 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: massive influence on our direction and publishing and graphic design 310 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: in in the mid century and was a really important figure. 311 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: And we were both shocked we hadn't heard of her, 312 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: because you know, she kind of touches the convergence of 313 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: art to professions. She worked in publishing and editorial and 314 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: UM and was an illustrator, and neither of us have 315 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: heard of her, and so these paintings had never been published. 316 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: They've been sitting in her estate for her almost seventy 317 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: years and we decided we had to get the book 318 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: and figure out a way to publish the recipes and 319 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: also tell her story. UM. So we called up Maria 320 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: Popova and Debbie Millman, who um we thought would be 321 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: interested in it because both of them have an interest 322 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: in history and culture and design and um and we 323 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: asked him if they would want to go in on 324 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: it because it was a purchase, you know, it was 325 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: it was an art purchase, um in antique really so 326 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: so we couldn't afford it on our own before of 327 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: us told our resources and and bought it and then 328 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: you know, took it and put it into a fire 329 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: proof safe in Wendy's house and uh, and and set 330 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: out to figure out what to do next. Yeah, it 331 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: really is crazy to me how fresh these illustrations feel like. 332 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: I remember, like six or seven years ago we were 333 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: trying to commission illustrations that looked like this because they 334 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: felt like novel at the time. And and uh, it's 335 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: amazing to me that you know, we've we've looked at 336 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: magazine histories before and you know, sort of the luminaries 337 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: along the way, but the fact that Cepe existed and 338 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: Andy Warhol loved her and like, I don't know her 339 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: name is just crazy to me. Yeah, yeah, she should 340 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 1: be better known. I mean she just said, you know, 341 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: she um. One of kind of the biggest influence she 342 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: had as far as um steering the direction that publishing 343 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: and design went, is that she um She was one 344 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: of the first people to start working with artists for 345 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: magazines in a way that really was collaborative and responded 346 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: to the artists in a way that invited there, you know, 347 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: invited their input and their own response. So rather than 348 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: you know, if she needed to do a story about it, 349 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: you know, a loaf of bread, instead of calling an 350 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:08,959 Speaker 1: artist and saying, I have a story about a love 351 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: of bread when you draw a love of bread, it 352 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: was I have a story. I want you to read 353 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: it and then tell me after you've read it what 354 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: you're fass are on how to put visuals to it, 355 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: you know, And and and it was more of an 356 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: invitation and a collaboration. And that was how she did 357 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: work with Andy Warhol, who was doing a lot of 358 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: um he did a lot of food illustration early in 359 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 1: his career. Well. And and a big portion of this 360 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: book is is your revision of her recipes. I'm curious 361 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: how intimidating that was to try to tweak her recipes 362 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: for for a modern age. Yeah, it was. It was intimidating, 363 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: I guess, or it was more it was more of 364 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: kind of like a um strategic challenge because the I mean, 365 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: there was the first challenge, which is simply that the 366 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: recipes as she wrote them, when you follow them from 367 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: start to finish, don't necessarily yield what they are promising you. Um, 368 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: you know, which is most likely because the book, her 369 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: original credits her mother as the author and herself as 370 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: the illustrator. So these are her mother's recipes, definitely passed 371 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: to her directly from her mother. And you know, who 372 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: knows exactly how she recorded them, if she was standing 373 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: next to her in the kitchen trying to write it 374 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: down as this she could, or if her mother told 375 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: her from her head, but most likely her mother didn't 376 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: fit and meticulously measure things out, and so, um, you know, 377 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: these recipes. Some of them hold up just as a 378 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: set of instructions. Others really don't. And so my first 379 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: challenge was just to make them work, you know, so 380 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: that you could follow one to three and at the end, 381 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: you'd have the thing that you thought you were going 382 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: to get. And then the second challenge, the bigger challenge, 383 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: was to say, okay, you know, how do we make 384 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: these feel a little bit more modern? How do we 385 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 1: make sure the ingredients are ingredients that people are using 386 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: right now? Um? You know there are things in they're 387 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 1: like partially route which I had never used or seen, 388 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: although I was able to find it. But um, you know, 389 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: I didn't want to include ingredients that would be really 390 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: unusual in supermarkets today. UM. And then I didn't want 391 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: to make them so modern that they departed from the tradition. 392 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: So UM. I worked with a recipe development assistant who 393 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: is a sou chef here at Zoony Cafe, which is 394 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: very you know, modern temvery California food. So he he had, 395 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: you know, we would both kind of try the original 396 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: and then come together in brainstorm about what we could 397 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: do with it. And he would be further out along 398 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: the spectrum of making it more modern and edgy and 399 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: kind of bringing in ingredients from lots of other places 400 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: and um, and then we'd try to find a middle 401 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: ground where where it still felt true to what it 402 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: had been. And I think for the most part. We 403 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: did that and they very you know, some of them 404 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: are really close to the original, like the chicken soup 405 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: I thought was fantastic, almost exactly as she had it um. 406 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: And then some of the other ones, like the lambs too, 407 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: you know, kind of invite like Moroccan flavors, because that's 408 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: something you find a lot now with lamb, which she 409 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't have done, but um makes it taste great. Well 410 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: for our listeners, if you haven't checked out, leave me 411 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: a own with the recipes by CP Panelli's, go out 412 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: and buy a copy today. It's definitely a book that 413 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: belongs on more bookshelves. But Sarah Ridge, thanks so much 414 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: for joining us today on Part Time Genius. Thanks for 415 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: having me. Welcome to Part Time Genius. We're talking about 416 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: cookbooks now. I know we were going to be talking 417 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: about some of the great American books, but before we do, 418 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: let's look for a couple of minutes maybe about celebrity 419 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: chefs and just how they crank out so many books. Yeah, 420 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: I'm curious about this. Well, if you look at the 421 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: big chefs with publishing empires and the publishing schedules there on, 422 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: some of them have magazine columns, with thousands of recipes. 423 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: Some of them put out a new book every year. 424 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: It's just impossible for most people to produce at that volume. 425 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: And that's where the cookbook ghost writer comes in. I mean, 426 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 1: it makes sense to me that some celebrities wouldn't write 427 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: their own cookbooks, right, Like, I don't expect Barbara Cartland 428 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: have experimented with that much in the kitchen. But if 429 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: these are big TV chefs, I feel kind of cheated. Yeah, 430 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: I know, but you know, as The New York Times 431 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: did a story on it, and as one ghost writer 432 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 1: for Rachel Ray put it, how many times can one 433 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: person invent a new quick pasta dish? Which makes sense. Plus, 434 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, where chefs could work on one volume of 435 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: beautiful text once upon a time and that could be 436 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: their life's work. Now, the pressure on celebrity chefs is 437 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: completely different. I mean, they're all supposed to have special 438 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: degrees and make appearances on cruises and on talk shows 439 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,719 Speaker 1: and have their own weekly shows, all while operating a kitchen, 440 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: and it's actually just impossible. So so often these ghostwriters 441 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: are really creative cooks who understand how to distill someone's 442 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: style and philosophy into these delicious recipes, but can also 443 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: write and and the stories are kind of funny. So 444 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: there was there was one writer that said the number 445 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: of times they've seen chefs tear up reading the introductions 446 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: to their own books, that that was how they marked 447 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: their success. And another commenty that while these books often 448 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: started a labor of love from the chef, they don't 449 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: have time and quote dissolution is part of the job. 450 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: And every book there's a point where you just can't 451 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: stand the sight of each other. So it isn't always pleasant, 452 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: and it can be like dating, like you you want 453 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: to see that you fit before you commit to anything 454 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: long term. But it actually does pay pretty well. That's 455 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: pretty funny, you know, now that you mentioned it. I 456 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: met this entrepreneur who had a candy company. It was 457 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: this taffy that that was supposed to be better for 458 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: your teeth, and his wife was a dentist. But the 459 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: interesting thing to me was I asked him how do 460 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: you make a candy and he told me that you 461 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: can strike deals with chefs to come up with food 462 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: recipes for you. Like he found this junior chef from 463 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 1: a big deal restaurant in New York and and asked 464 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: him to play with the sugar substitute he had, and 465 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: he wrote him three or four recipes for not that 466 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: much money. But speaking of unsung cookbook authors, let's get 467 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: into some of the biggies in American history. Yeah, let's 468 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: do it. So let let's do a little quiz here. 469 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: What do you think is the best selling cookbook in 470 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 1: the US? Uh? I don't know. Maybe The Joy of Cooking? Yeah, 471 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: that that would have my guest too, And it's in 472 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: the top three. It's sold about eighteen million copies. Al Right, Well, 473 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 1: what about what's the Julia Child one? Cause that the 474 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: the Art of French Cooking? Is that what it's called? Yeah, 475 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: it's Mastering the Art of French Cooking? But that isn't either, 476 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: got alright, so I give up? What what is it? Yeah, 477 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: it's actually Betty Crocker's cookbook, which is sold approximately sixty 478 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: five million copies. I mean, it came out in nineteen 479 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: fifty and sales actually rivaled those of the Bible. According 480 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: to The Daily Meal, it's sold two million copies in 481 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: its first two years. And of course Betty Crocker is 482 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: this fictional marketing character, so it's a little strange that 483 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: America trusted her instincts. But before we talk about that, 484 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: I do want to talk about the book that's sold 485 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: the second best in the US, and this preceded the 486 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: Betty Crocker book by about twenty years, and that's the 487 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: Better Homes and Gardens New Cookbook, which came out in 488 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: ninety that's sold about forty million copies. And it was 489 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: revolutionary for a few reasons. Nothern law is going to 490 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: be so disappointed in me because we actually have two copies. Escal. Yeah, So, 491 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: so why was it so revolutionary? Well, one of the 492 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: really simple reasons was that it was one of the 493 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: first cookbooks with ring binding, Like the major advantage was 494 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: that you could lay it out flat on your countertops. 495 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: And at the time, this was a totally new technology, 496 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: so it felt kind of modern. And also, the book 497 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: had these little tab dividers, so when it was closed, 498 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: it looked like a little filing cabinet of recipes, and 499 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: there were blank pages at the back for notes and 500 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: so you can make your comments on your recipes, like 501 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: none of this have been done before. It was all 502 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: these gimmicks that emphasized its usefulness. I miss an age 503 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 1: where tab dividers were revolutionary. That's and and but the 504 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: thing is, like, the recipes are really good, Yeah they are, 505 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: and and the Better Homes cookbook was one of the 506 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: first to emphasize that they had actually tested thousands of 507 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: recipes in the test kitchen and they were only bringing 508 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: you the creme de la creme. Plus it was really instructional. So, 509 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: according to Better Homes own site quote, in many books 510 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,239 Speaker 1: at the time, a recipe for a current pie might 511 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: have read something like this at one cup of raspberries 512 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: to three cups of ripe currents and bacon, two crusts, 513 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: serve plane or with whipped cream. So most writers assumed 514 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: that you know how to prepare the fruit, how to 515 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: make a crust, how long to bake the thing, how 516 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: to add three fourth cup of sugar to sweeten the filling, 517 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: or like a little flour to thick in it. So 518 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: this was way more instructive and really taught you how 519 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 1: to cook. Oh yeah that yeah, that's definitely interesting. And 520 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: you know, just to be clear, Better Homes wasn't the 521 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: first one to use more accurate measurements like French chefs 522 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: had been working to codify French cuisine since the late 523 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds. And uh. This woman, 524 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: Fanny Farmer, she headed the Boston Cooking School. She did 525 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: the same for the US and the eighteen nineties. Apparently 526 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: she was like super finicky about ingredients, and she claimed 527 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: that currents could only be picked between June twenty and 528 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: July three, but not when it's raining. And uh. On 529 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: the other hand, she wrote with the precision of like 530 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: chemistry experiments. And she's the reason we use like proper 531 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: measurements instead of saying things like a slab of butter, 532 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: the size of the net, a level tea cup of sugar. Now, 533 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: I know The Joy of Cooking came out around the 534 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: same time as the Better Homes book. But before we 535 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: talk about the Joy of Cooking, why don't we talk 536 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: about the Betty Crocker book that you mentioned. So, so, 537 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: why was it America's top selling cookbook? Yeah, Joy of 538 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: Cooking could have been its own episode, but we can 539 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 1: chat about that a little later. The Betty Crocker Picture Cookbook. 540 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: It's baffling to me how it got so popular. I 541 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: didn't really know the origin of Betty Crocker. Apparently it 542 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: all started in when this flower company. It's called gold 543 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: Metal Flower. They put out a puzzle and had customers 544 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: fill it out and mail it back for like a 545 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: free pin cushion. And the company didn't think of pincushion 546 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: prize would be that popular, especially since it was just 547 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: shaped like a tiny bag of gold metal flower. But 548 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: you know, the puzzles poured in. Apparently thirty thousand completed 549 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: puzzles came in. And even more surprising than all these 550 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: entries was the fact that they were accompanied by so 551 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 1: many letters, all asking bacon questions and listing out like 552 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: their concerns, and at the time, it was all up 553 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: to this all male advertising department to respond to the queries. 554 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: So did they have the answers. No, I mean, that's 555 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: part of what's so weird is they had right back responses, 556 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: but they'd have to ask the female staff who worked 557 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: there for answers. And because none of them felt comfortable 558 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: writing their names, they invented this woman, Betty Crocker. Wow. 559 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: So so Betty Crocker became sort of like the Dear 560 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,199 Speaker 1: Abbey of cooking problems exactly. And so, according to the 561 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: Chicago Tribune quote, before Betty Crocker was synonymous with boxed cake, 562 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,239 Speaker 1: mix and canned frosting. She was a kitchen confidant and 563 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: a maternal and guiding presents and kitchens across America. She 564 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: was the woman people could trust with their most frustrating 565 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: kitchen woes. And as that relationship built up from nineteen fifty, 566 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: people really came to trust her. So everyone just accepted 567 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: she was real. Yeah, I mean it was more than that. 568 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: So so you have to remember that this book outsold 569 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: the Bible, and that's partially because it really spoke to housewives. 570 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: So women used to make trips to the flour mill 571 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: just to try to neat and thank her. And while 572 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: the croquettes and that's what these women who worked the 573 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: company called themselves. When they couldn't talk around why Betty 574 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: wasn't in that day, there was just this box of 575 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: tissues ready for the weeping that would results, I know, 576 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: so traumatic. It's like learning that pro wrestling isn't real 577 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: and what can you trust here? But but but the 578 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: cookbook was it wasn't any good, yeah, I mean the 579 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: advice was practical and the recipes were reliable, and it 580 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: apparently helps standardize more things in the kitchen, like the 581 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: size of oven trays and pans, But the real value 582 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: in the book seemed to be and how Betty Crocker 583 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: spoke to women, and the book understood the tremendous burden 584 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: on housewives. And I'm going to quote the Tribune here again, 585 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: but this is some of what's in the cookbook. Quote. 586 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: She dispensed good cheer and sympathy. When the cook needed 587 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: what Betty terms special helps, Betty suggested she might try. 588 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: And then this is quoting Betty a few minutes rest 589 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: on the kitchen floor, harboring pleasant thoughts, pursuing a hobby, 590 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: wearing comfortable shoes, altern eating, sitting and standing tasks, and 591 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: taking time to notice humorous instance such as the kidden 592 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: getting stuck in a tree, all to narrated at dinner time. 593 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it all sounds so quaint and kind of 594 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: ridiculous at the same time. But you know, but clearly 595 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: cooking and maintaining a house is frustrating, and it must 596 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: have been nice, you know, to get that reminder that 597 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: you're not alone in these struggles. Definitely, and and people 598 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: must have needed it. I mean, books, Yeah, that's a 599 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: crazy number. But why don't we take a quick break 600 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: and then chat briefly about a few more important books. 601 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: So they go, there are obviously two big books that 602 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: we haven't talked about yet. Yeah, that's right, Joy of 603 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: Cooking and mastering the Art of French Cooking. Well, and 604 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: like we said before, both of these books could be 605 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: their own show. And in fact, if you want to 606 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: learn more about Julia Child, you can check out our 607 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: sister show, Food Stuff, And they just did an episode 608 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: on her not so long ago, and you know, then 609 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: you've got the Joy of Cooking in That book has 610 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: gone through so many editions and is definitely the best 611 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: known American cookbook. But let's just do the quick version. Yeah. 612 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: So the story is incredible in you know, the stock 613 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: market crashed and Erma Rombauer, who's the woman who wrote 614 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: the book, her husband had been depressed on and off, 615 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: but the crash just ruined him and and he took 616 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: his own life. But Irma decided to pour all of 617 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: her efforts into a cookbook. And the truth is she 618 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: wasn't that great a cook, but she was this incredible 619 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: hostess and she could really pull a party together really quickly. 620 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: And her book kind of reads like the flip side 621 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: of the Betty Crocker book, where everyone's trying to be 622 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: the perfect housewife. I mean Erma narrates her book from 623 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: like imperfection. She cared more about providing cocktail recipes that 624 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: loosened the tongue than about any of the fancy spreads. 625 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: And she advises to serve the drinks the sooner the better. 626 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: And when she does talk about stirring things like soups 627 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: for an hour, she acknowledges no real person has that 628 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: sort of time. So she comes across this this wonderful, 629 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: practical German Midwestern woman who just loves life. There's real 630 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: joy and the joy of cooking. It's real. And and 631 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: she used all her money to publish the slim volume. 632 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: And as the volumes expanded, it kept pace with the times. 633 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: So there's things like how to cook a squirrel in 634 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: leaner times, to how to make granola or lemonade recipes 635 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: for a hundred people. That's really interesting. And you know, 636 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: there are people who love certain volumes that her daughter made, 637 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: maybe versus her originals and camps who think certain editions 638 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: are soulless versus those that have Irma's true spirit. And 639 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,959 Speaker 1: I guess what struck me as is how vocal the 640 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: fans are about these certain editions, But why don't we 641 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: talk quickly about Julia Child too, Because mastering the Art 642 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: was definitely also a very big deal. But but why 643 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: was it so revolutionary? Well, basically, it brought French cuisine 644 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: to America. I mean, French cuisine had been unapproachable and 645 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: it was the fanciest food out there. But I didn't 646 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: realize her book isn't easy. I mean, the steps are complicated. 647 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: I guess that's a subplot of Julia and Julia. But 648 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: it was basically the book that pulled the curtain from 649 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: these French magicians and revealed the tricks to everyday Americans. 650 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: You know, I was watching this American Masters on Jacques 651 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: Popin and he's so fascinating. But but the thing that 652 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: I thought was most interesting was he actually turned down 653 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: cooking at the Kennedy White House to take a job 654 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: at Howard Johnson's the hotel chain. Isn't that weird? Like, basically, 655 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: it took a very standard restaurant food and for ten 656 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: years worked on improving it at scale to make the 657 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: food as delicious as it could be, which I guess 658 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: is a kid to win. Top chefs worked with like 659 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: airlines to make the food better. Yeah, it's exactly like that, 660 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: all right. So I know we raised through a ton 661 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,959 Speaker 1: of books and and we didn't get enough time with 662 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: any of them. But it really is fascinating how you 663 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: can look at cookbooks and understand a certain time through them. 664 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: There was one I was reading about, a sixteenth century 665 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: Russian book called the Mastroy and it tells you how 666 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: to cook turn ups but also discloses the best way 667 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: to punish wayward servants, which it seems so strange, but 668 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: you know, cookbooks were for the wealthy back then, and 669 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: it really shows that. I know. And when you look 670 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: at books like Cooking under Rations from World War One, 671 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: it's really heartbreaking to see meals like brown rice prepared 672 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 1: with drippings if you have them, or stock, or like 673 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: a little salt and pepper. It's it's not that they 674 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: can't be tasty, but you can just feel the hopelessness 675 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: of the times and the recipe. But on the other hand, 676 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,800 Speaker 1: you can look at a book like Cooking with Coolio 677 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: and his kitchen Pimp recipes like finger licken, rib stick 678 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: and fall off the bone and into your mouth chicken 679 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: makes me hungry, I know, And you realize we've lived 680 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: through some pretty outlandish times too, write write, I have 681 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: no idea what future historians are gonna learn from that, 682 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: But you know one thing historians will remember the mango 683 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: the p GG fact off. Well, probably not, but either way, 684 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: let's go back and forth on some great cookbooks. Did 685 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 1: you know one of my heroes, Roger Ebert, had a 686 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: cookbook up. It's called The Pot and How to Use 687 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: It and it's basically a guy for writers on how 688 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: to eat all using meals made in rice cookers. It's 689 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: kind of a set it and forget it recipe book. Um, 690 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 1: I mean until you're hungry. I mean I did not 691 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,919 Speaker 1: know that existed. Well, have you heard of the Eat 692 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: Your Feelings book. It's subtitled Recipes for Self Loathing and 693 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: they're very very specific, so it'll show you how to 694 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: make everything from worst d eight Ever, nutty cheeseballs too, 695 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: Baby Won't Stop Crying, Nachos Supreme. It sounds very cheese forward, 696 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: very cheese heavy. Here's one from another favorite writer of mine, 697 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: Roll Dolls, Revolting Recipes. You know it's it's it's strange 698 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: because I've read most of roll dolls books, including his 699 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: kid in adult stories. But I've actually never picked up 700 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: this cookbook. But according to the Food Network, it features 701 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: recipes like quote, an edible crocodile made from a spinach 702 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: covered baghett with almond teeth, all of eyes, gherkin toes, 703 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: and a slice of ham for a ton. It's like 704 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: funny revolting head. Yes, I was actually going to tell 705 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: you about the Twinkies cookbook, but instead I think I'm 706 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: gonna go with a different fact. I feel like I 707 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: need to clench this fact off. There's one called the 708 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: Manifold Destiny Cookbook, so I don't get it. Is it 709 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: filled with recipes from that time period or like about 710 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: recipes gone West? No? No, no, it's way better than that. 711 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 1: So I learned about this from Bone Appetite and the 712 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: subtitle is though one the Only Guy to Cooking on 713 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: your car engine. It's a book made in nineteen eight nine. 714 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: But but it's basically about how to use your car 715 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 1: and the engine to cook snacks and meals while driving. 716 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: I guess maybe West. But apparently it includes recipes like 717 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: thru way thighs, you know, so you don't need to 718 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 1: pull off at KFC just to satisfy those cravings. That's amazing. Well, 719 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: you know how I love those life hacks where you 720 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,879 Speaker 1: learn to make soup and coffee pots or broil fish 721 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 1: and dishwashers. So I'm all about this. You definitely win 722 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: this week's cookbook challenge. All right, well, thanks so much now, 723 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: but before we go, I actually wanted to read a 724 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: letter from from one of our readers named Lauren Paka. 725 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: She emailed us after hearing the episode that we did 726 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,080 Speaker 1: on the US Postal system, And remember the neumatic two 727 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: was that we were talking about where people actually ordered 728 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,839 Speaker 1: a sandwich and had it sent from one borough of 729 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,240 Speaker 1: New York to another. And we thought that was so interesting, 730 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 1: And so she wrote to us and this is related 731 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: to food, which is why I decided to read it here. 732 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,919 Speaker 1: And she said, um, I just finished why we don't 733 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: use rockets to send mail anymore. At one point, you 734 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: guys mentioned wishing you could get a sandwich through pneumatic tube, 735 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,280 Speaker 1: and I thought i'd tell you that I have before. 736 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,919 Speaker 1: In Adena, Minnesota, they once had a pneumatic McDonald's drive through. 737 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, on the recipes, they boasted 738 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 1: they were the world's onlyneumatic McDonald's. I looked it up 739 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: and apparently it closed in two thousand eleven, so I'm sorry, guys, 740 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,280 Speaker 1: noneumatic sandwiches anymore. I think there's a YouTube video of it. However, 741 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: an employee stood in a little outbuilding where they also 742 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,399 Speaker 1: had a soda machine, not a great idea to send 743 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: through a tube, and took your order. The sandwiches were 744 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: made in a strip ball nearby and sent to the 745 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: outbuilding through the tube. Kind of neat. Thanks to the podcast, guys. 746 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: I'll admit I'm pretty jealous of your job, but that's awesome, 747 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: So Lauren Packer, thank you so much for h for 748 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: that note. You guys know we love hearing from you anytime. 749 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,879 Speaker 1: You can always call us on our seven fact hot 750 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: line that's one eight four four pt Genius, or hit 751 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: us up on our Facebook or Twitter. You can also 752 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 1: email us part Time Genius at how stuff works dot com. 753 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. Thanks again for listening. Part 754 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: Time Genius is a production of How Stuff Works and 755 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't be possible without several brilliant people who do the 756 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: important things we couldn't even begin to understand. Tristan McNeil 757 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: does the editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme song 758 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 1: and does the mixy mixy sound thing. Jerry Roland does 759 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: the exact producer thing. Gay Bluesier is our lead researcher, 760 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: with support from the Research Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan 761 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: Brown and Lucas Adams and Eve. Jeff Cook gets the 762 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: show to your ears. Good job, Eves. If you like 763 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe, And if you 764 00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: really really like what you've heard, maybe you could leave 765 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 1: a good review for us. Did we? Did we forget Jason? 766 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: Jason who