WEBVTT - MIA | 8 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:05.040 Hey, listeners Jessica here, be sure to check out new 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:09.680 episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.520 your podcasts. For early and ad free listening, check out 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:20.680 Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:24.680 in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:28.280 and participating in the show, and do not represent those 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:33.360 of Tenderfoot TV and Resonate recordings. All individuals described or 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:37.160 mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:41.320 guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:45.239 matter such as violence and graphic descriptions, which may not 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:53.400 be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. October 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:57.960 twenty twenty, the same month, Jessica's neighbor Laura sees authority 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:01.120 swabbing of futon and head board near the driveway of 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:06.000 the Journeys residence. A heated text message exchange starts between 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:09.840 a man from the Lakeview neighborhood and another individual who 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:11.720 he believes to be a fellow neighbor. 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:15.319 I guess if you ask like my family of friends, 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.839 they would probably be like I'm they wouldn't be surprised. 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.120 I'm curious by nature and these types of things, and 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.600 when it happens so close to your home, it tugs 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:29.440 on you a little bit more. 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:30.120 I guess. 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:35.000 It started pretty simple, like I said, just a neighbor 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:38.640 texting someone he believed to be another neighbor. But what 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:44.160 it led to is well astounding, and now for the 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:48.160 first time, this neighbor is ready to share his story. 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:53.000 I felt like I had, I guess, a responsibility or 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:56.960 a duty to tell my side and say what happened, 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.880 And you know how everything went to. 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:29.280 In our last episode, we learned how Jessica's sister Audrey 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:33.320 formed her own village of sorts within the Lakeview neighborhood, 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.440 with many Lakeview residents stepping up and helping in this 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:42.320 investigation in various ways. But as I had mentioned, there's 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:46.040 one other neighbor we spoke with who may arguably hold 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:49.520 the biggest piece of evidence in this case that we 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:53.120 know of, So we headed over to his Lakeview home 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.480 to sit down and hear his story. He asked to 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:58.440 go by a pseudonym for this podcast. 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.720 My name is Jay Royce. I live in the neighborhood 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.400 where Jessica Easterly was found. 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:12.239 Jay's involvement in this case started just like his neighbor Laura's, 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.560 when he spotted a crime stoppers flyer on a telephone 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:16.800 pole near his home. 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.639 I came across the sign one day on my way 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:24.520 home from work and googled her name because I hadn't 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:28.840 heard of the case or her and that kind of 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:33.080 opened a Pandora's box of things online with podcasts and 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:37.840 websites and news stories, and I started just kind of 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.200 doing a little more research and digging into. 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:44.600 It as a concern. Neighbor Jay quickly turned into an 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:46.640 Internet sleuth of sorts. 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:51.360 I was apparently living here at the time of it happening, 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:53.920 and no one that I know had heard of it, 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:57.200 so it kind of pequed my curiosity a little bit 0:03:57.480 --> 0:03:58.360 that a body. 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:03.880 Was found not far from my house. It's a little disturbing. 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:08.160 I mean, there's no way anyone can feel good about that, 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:13.080 especially not knowing officially what happened to her. But it's 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:14.680 just an unsettling feeling. 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.680 He nervously takes a sip of his bourbon on the 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:23.520 rocks as we continue our conversation. Holding his low ball glass. 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.239 He tells us about Lakeview. 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:28.120 Yeah, it's a good neighborhood. 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:33.159 I mean, we have your petty theft stuff where people 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.960 break into cars here and there, but something like that 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.880 is definitely out of the ordinary. I mean, it was 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.479 kind of a running thing where it was if you 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:47.080 had your car broken into or something to report that, 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:49.800 don't hold your breath while waiting for the police to 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.080 come and check on it, because they may not even 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:56.760 show up. And that's happened multiple times from what I've heard. 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:00.080 Not saying that they're bad people or anything like that, 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.360 but I think they're probably understaffed and overwhelmed and have. 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.760 It was Jay's lack of faith in the NPD that 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.440 led him to continue his online search in an attempt 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:15.880 to learn more about Jessica's case. Of course, in his research, 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.760 he learned of her husband, Justin. He also learned that 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.760 Justin lived in the neighborhood. So Jay opened up his 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.640 next door app, a neighborhood forum of sorts, and that's 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:29.200 when he spotted Justin. 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:32.120 We had just googled his name just to see who 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:36.400 he was, and I noticed on one of these apps, 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:40.440 on like a neighborhood app. It was right around the 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:45.120 time of her death, where he starts posting on this 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:51.000 neighborhood app, just trying to be friendly with people and saying, oh, yeah, 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.280 I know about this, know about that. If you need 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.120 any help, call me, and he would post his number 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.960 and nobody's posting their number ever, And he did that 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.719 multiple times, and then all of a sudden had stopped, 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.400 like right around the time where it was confirmed that 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:07.880 it was her. 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:11.839 I literally just stopped. He had never posted again. 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.760 Jay was upset about everything he'd read on Jessica's case, 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:19.760 and since Justin had posted his phone number in the 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:23.720 next door app, Jay decided to text him, but since 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.800 he was a stranger to Justin, he didn't really expect 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:31.320 a conversation to form, but it did. While the number 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:35.080 J texted is the same number Justin gave to police 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:39.200 when Jessica went missing, and the same number her loved 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:43.200 ones had saved as Justin in their phones, it's important 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.200 to note that we have no way of verifying whether 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:48.880 or not Justin was in possession of the phone number 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:53.680 at the time of these text messages. Jay shared the 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.880 original text exchanges with us, and we're going to read 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:00.240 the ones we can and have Jay fill in the gaps. 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:04.279 I'll have Todd voice Jay Royce's text, and I'll voice 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:10.520 the other individual's text. It started on September twenty, twenty twenty. 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:13.480 Hey, justin how. 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:13.800 You've been. 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:16.920 Great, struggling a bit. 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:18.880 Too bad? 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:21.400 Better than being in the sandbox though, huh. 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.200 True? My dog died. 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.280 And I thought that was kind of funny because I 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:35.400 did see his dog being walked in the neighborhood the 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:39.680 day before, and I've seen his dog walked subsequently after 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:40.360 that as well. 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:43.440 I didn't text him anymore at that moment. 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.840 While the initial text exchange ended at this point, that 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:53.520 wasn't the end of their communication. To Jay's surprise, things 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:58.760 would continue and become much more personal. For legal reasons, 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:02.040 we can only read certain excerpts of the next portion. 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:08.600 The texting commenced again on October fifteenth. 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:14.280 Thought your dog was dead? You aren't very sealer, silence, mortalous, 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:14.920 sleep tight? 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:18.280 What the fuck you lay mass bitch? 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:20.320 Lol? 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.800 You can't even spell fuck you bitch. 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:31.840 As the conversation starts to spiral, Jay makes strong accusations. 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:36.640 The unknown individual replies to Jay's accusations, saying, quote, she 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.719 was cheating. At this point, you may be thinking, as 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.120 I am, why would this other individual be so open 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:49.720 and candid with a total stranger doesn't make sense. Well, 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.800 it quickly becomes evident that this person was under the 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:58.439 impression that Jay was someone they knew very well, saying, quote, 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:00.080 you were my best friend, and. 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.920 He somehow thought I was his best friend when we 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:10.520 were texting, never questioned who I was. So when I 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:13.760 realized that he thought I was somebody else, I decided 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.760 to press him a little bit, went adam hard to 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:20.240 get him to be a little defensive. He ended up 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.160 saying that you know, I didn't kill her. 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:30.959 She slip and fell. Where in the bathroom? 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:32.680 Then how'd she get to the train tracks? 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.960 Bro, I panicked and drove there. 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:39.480 You need to come clean and let the family have peace. 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:48.000 Why if I'm an incident? We believe the other individual's 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:51.800 final message was intended to be why if I'm innocent? 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.080 This was the last text exchanged between Jay and the 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:57.600 other unknown person. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:04.680 So that's when we knew that there was that he 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:08.040 probably is not. He's got a screw loose. I wouldn't 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.600 be surprised if he was high on something in the 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:14.920 midst of this, because apparently within a couple of days 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.760 he deleted this number and it was no longer his. 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:19.079 It was. 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:20.400 It belonged to someone else. 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:22.280 Take me there. How do you know that? 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:23.120 Well? 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:26.720 I know that for a couple of reasons. I know 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.040 a police officer told me it was someone else's number 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:34.360 at that point, and then to verify that, we texted 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:36.760 the guy and said, you know who is this? 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.440 A few days later, Jay calls the number. 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.360 We called him and he said this isn't him, and 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:45.560 I said, prove you aren't him and call me. So 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:47.360 then he called and I could tell by his voice 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.240 it wasn't him, but it was a kid, definitely wasn't 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:50.600 a man. 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:52.520 He's like, I don't know what's going on. 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:57.319 Jay reached out to Audrey and Maria and shared screenshots 0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:58.559 of the text conversation. 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:00.520 She was like, holy shit. 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:06.640 And within about fifteen minutes, a detective from NOPD called 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.960 me to their credit in which I wasn't expecting, and 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:11.760 he was trying to set up a time for me 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.480 to come in and hand over my phone so they 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:17.800 could do some forensic analysis on it. 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:19.120 So we did that. 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:23.719 What was the timeframe in which you had your phone in? 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:27.400 Just a few days? Yeah, like two or three at 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:27.880 the most. 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:33.440 And then the police told you specifically that that phone 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:34.880 was no longer his. 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.120 Yeah, and then I wanted to verify that, and I did. 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:43.080 Did he define it like a it stopped being his 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:45.440 two days after those texts or. 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:47.760 They didn't get into specifics on that. 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.800 Apparently it's one of those like internet numbers where you could, like, 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.199 you know, get rid of quickly or something like that 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.520 and request a new one and it just gets a 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.320 sign to somebody else who's wanting a new one or something. 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.680 But I know that whatever he was using, it allowed 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.320 him to get rid of the number and move on 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:07.439 and have that number be. 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:11.160 A sign of someone else, regardless of who owns the 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.280 phone number. Now Jay believes what he believes. He's learned 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.800 even more about the case since that text conversation, and 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:23.520 over time he's only become more troubled by everything. But 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.880 since we are unable to verify that Justin still used 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:31.120 that phone number at that time without supporting evidence, there's 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:35.000 also a real possibility that this was just simply another 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:38.840 person Jay was texting with. There's no real way to know. 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.760 What I can say is that if this was in 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:46.280 fact a different person, it does seem striking to Todd 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.000 and I that there were a lot of parallels between 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.480 the text exchange and what we do know about Jessica 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:57.280 and the circumstances surrounding her death. The fact that NPD 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:01.199 took these texts and investigated them seems to show they 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.720 took this exchange seriously. But I want to be very 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.840 clear and remind everyone that no charges of any kind 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.280 have been brought against Justin in relation to Jessica's death. 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.480 After ending our conversation with Jay, I'm left with so 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:21.400 many questions, and it feels more important now than ever 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:25.000 before to try and make contact with Justin myself to 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.400 see if he may have any insight into all of this, 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.720 some kind of explanation to this conversation and all the 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:35.960 other things that are left unanswered. We figure there's no 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.240 better option than to go straight to Justin's front door. 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:44.720 I make my way up to the front door while 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:50.440 Todd waits in the car. After a few knocks, the 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:57.439 door opens. It's not who I expected. Hi is justin home. No, 0:13:57.880 --> 0:13:59.440 he is not doing know when who might be back. 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:01.720 I haven't heard from him for a week. 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:07.200 A week, I'm greeted by an older Asian man who's 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:11.760 tall but hunched over in the doorway. He's shirtless and 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.800 appears to have just woken up. The door is kept cracked, 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.320 but I can see a glimpse of the inside. It's 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:23.160 dark and still on the other side. It's not clear 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:27.120 whether Justin's daughter Grace or his father justin senr or home. 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:28.720 Do you know where he might be? 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:34.800 He's probably he's on a job site right now, so 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:36.760 I'm not sure. 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:42.040 In New Orleans no, Oh, okay, Oh, he's out of town. Okay, okay, 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:46.240 I remember that Laura, Justin and Jessica's neighbor who we 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.160 heard from previously mentioned that a man moved in sometime 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:54.640 after Jessica's death. Laura believes the man's name is Bart. 0:14:55.520 --> 0:15:00.280 Are you Bart? By chance? Would you actually? I'm I'm 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:04.600 a journalist. I'm working on a story about Yes, I'm 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.640 telling you, I'm a journalist. My name's Jessica Nole and 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:12.520 I'm working on a story about Jessica. And I had 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.760 just heard that you had that he had a roommate 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:17.760 named Bart. That was all did you know, Jessica? 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:24.640 You know, well, I came I met chessman after sit maskaway. 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.000 Oh okay, okay, but. 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:33.520 You're totally you know the people in this neighborhood. I 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:35.880 will tell you pluck me and then you're publicly. 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:37.280 Fuck these people. 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:38.400 Why what's going on? 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.000 Okay, same reason you know my name? 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.480 After Bart slams the door, I leave my business card 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.920 on the mailbox and then return to the car to 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:56.240 update Todd on the encounter. Let's move along for a minute. Okay, 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.440 do you hear that? With no luck on our door, knock, 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.400 Todd and I takes some time to strategize and make 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.160 the decision to head back to the hotel and try 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:08.600 reaching Justin by other means. 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.479 For Colin has been forwarded to voicemail. 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.040 Todd first dials the number for what we believe is 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:20.840 Justin's landline, and after several unanswered calls, someone finally answers, 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.880 this time it's not Bart, and it's not Justin, but 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:31.240 rather Justin SR. Unfortunately, he seems to have trouble hearing, 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.520 making the conversation difficult. 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.960 Justin Hello, Hello, Justin? Hello? 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.680 Hello? Can you hear me? Go ahead? 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:43.800 Is this Justin Senior? 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:46.120 Yeah? Hi? 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:46.800 How are you? 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.360 How are you doing today? Well? Hey, my name is 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.240 Todd Macomas, and I wanted to see if I could 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:59.920 talk to you for a second, I'm trying to find Justin. 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:01.360 Do you know where he's at? 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:03.240 Where is he? 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.280 I'm trying to find Justin, trying to get a hold 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.159 of him. Do you know where he is or how 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:09.680 I can get a hold of him. 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.080 I assume he's at work. 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:14.800 Oh, he's at work. Does he work here? 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:15.200 Local? 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:16.679 I don't know. 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.959 Oh, you don't know what kind of works he do? 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:22.439 Is he new construction? I? 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:22.920 No, No. 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.560 When was the last time you saw Justin? 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:28.240 I don't know. 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:29.679 Has it been a while? 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:31.000 Like four days? 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:32.000 Five days? 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:33.000 Know? 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:37.040 A long time? Short time? Hello? 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:39.720 He hung up? 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.440 So no luck via phone either. Back to square one. 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:50.160 Over several late night caffeine field conversations in our French 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:54.560 Quarter hotel room. We remember a name that Justin mentioned before. 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:57.600 It was in the bodycam audio we listened to a 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:58.320 while back. 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.879 A good friend of mine, a prominent lawyer here. I 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:04.639 called him and I was like, Ralph Whalen is his 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:05.080 last name? 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:05.600 Like Ralph? 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.639 He goes, I did remember what a reasonable person would believe. 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.639 I'm like, okay, you know what's not reasonable this? 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.159 There's nothing reasonable about this. 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.959 Maybe Ralph will know where we can find Justin, so 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:24.400 we look him up Ralph Whalen is apparently a prominent 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:28.119 white collar criminal defense and personal injury attorney in New Orleans. 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:33.000 He's been practicing law since nineteen seventy one. We thought 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.560 maybe Justin would be open to a sit down if 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.840 his attorney friend was present. So Todd makes a call 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:41.080 to Ralph. 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:45.359 Hi, Ralph, my name is Todd Mcomas. I'm calling about 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.680 an individual that you may or may not be representing. 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:57.919 His name is Justin Derning. Yeah, yeah, he's retained your services. Yeah, okay, 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.119 are you generally retained or are you retaining him for 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:02.040 a specific matter. 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.760 Well, he's a friend, and I mean I can't even. 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.000 Tell you that I'm specifically retained or anything. 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:10.720 He's a friend of mine. 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.840 So, oh, okay, who are you with. 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.040 I'm a retired detective with the Indiana State Police. 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:22.040 And Todd explains to Ralph that we were working on 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.960 a story regarding Jessica that we would really like to 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.600 talk to Justin if he'd be open to it. Unfortunately, 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:31.640 Ralph wasn't able to answer our questions, but he told 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.879 us he would pass along our information to Justin and 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:38.240 said we could follow up with him via email. So 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:42.000 after their conversation ended. I sent an email to Ralph, 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:46.080 but I have yet to receive a response. As it stands, 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:53.520 Justin is mia. After unsuccessfully trying Justin multiple times by 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:57.800 various means, we tried to think outside the box. If 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.880 we couldn't speak with him directly to get our questions answered, 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:05.399 maybe his family could give us some insight. We spoke 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:08.720 to several members of his extended family, and while it 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.840 helped provide some context to his family's history and roots 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.680 in the area, it didn't get us any closer to 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.160 learning what he may have known about the days around 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:23.200 Jessica's death and disappearance. The family feels terrible about Jessica 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.160 and how her family is still left looking for justice. 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:29.280 While they may not have been close to her, they 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:34.160 still feel a connection. After all, she was Justin's wife. 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:38.000 If you remember, we've previously mentioned Justin's second wife, Lauren, 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:42.760 who he was married to when he first met Jessica. Unfortunately, 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.760 Lauren was not willing to talk to us for the podcast, 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:49.639 but someone who was willing to speak with us was 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:55.119 his other ex Dolores Wenzel Lacasio, who is Grace's mom. 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:58.760 So I reached out to her, not really knowing what 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:03.159 to expect, but I was surprised to find that not 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.000 only was she open to talking with us, she was 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:11.200 very candid about their life together. Dolores doesn't shy away 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:13.680 from the fact that over the years she has had 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:17.480 some issues in her life stemming from addiction, and that 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.920 brings us to the beginning of her and Justin's story. 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:26.199 I was thirty two at the time, and I was 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:31.679 in my first marriage, and I'll just be completely brutally honest, 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:35.320 which is that I had an overdose that I had 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:39.840 on purpose, trying to kill myself. Subsequently, I told the 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:43.119 doctor that I needed help with getting off of medication, 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:49.880 and so they sent me outpatient day program from eight 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.080 in the morning to four in the afternoon, kind of 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:56.600 like a school for etics. That's where Justin and I met. 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:01.719 Although she admits to battling with addiction, then Delores can 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:06.359 vividly recount her life by Justin's side. After living together 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:10.199 in Louisiana for some time, the couple moved to Arizona, 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:13.159 and it was while they were living out west that 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:15.479 she found out she was pregnant with Grace. 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.640 I took a pregnancy test and I was in the bathroom. 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:23.800 He's like, well, what the fuck does it say? And 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:28.640 I'm like, he broke the door down in Arizona. He's like, mother, whatever, 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:31.760 And he took the test and it's like ping ping, ping, ping, ping, 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:35.439 off of all the sides of the freaking wall. And 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:39.640 he punched me right there, like congratulations. 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.800 She vividly remembers the look in his eyes that night 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:47.480 in the bathroom and she was holding the pregnancy test. 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:53.560 The eyes go black and you're looking right through them. 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:56.359 It's like their eyes are full of dust. 0:22:56.640 --> 0:22:57.560 There's no soul. 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:02.680 But when you look at him, they don't see you. 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:07.320 You're looking or they're looking right through you, and it 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:08.119 is horrific. 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:14.320 Delores describes a very turbulent relationship with Justin. But this 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:16.720 is not the first time we've heard accusations like this 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:20.800 made against Justin. We heard similar comments in regards to 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:24.920 Justin's second marriage to Lauren. Again. We had reached out 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:28.320 to Lauren directly, hoping she'd be open to sharing her story, 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:32.080 but she explained she did not want to participate, and 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:35.840 I can understand the hesitation. But we were able to 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:39.040 obtain a copy of a petition that Lauren filed for 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:43.840 domestic abuse protection order with the Justice Court of Golfport, Mississippi. 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:47.719 We requested a copy of that restraining order from the 0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:51.040 Golfport Police Department, but there was no order of protection 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:55.440 on file. However, in her sworn statement in that petition 0:23:55.920 --> 0:24:00.679 dated August third, twenty eleven, Lauren stated that on July twelfth, 0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:05.160 twenty eleven, Justin attacked and choked her inside their home. 0:24:06.359 --> 0:24:09.399 She checked a box on that petition that states petitioner 0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:13.919 submits there exist immediate and present danger of abuse. She 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:17.360 also checked the box that states that a divorce is pending. 0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:21.919 The Gulfport Police were unable to locate any record of 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:25.919 this domestic abuse protective order, which could simply mean that 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:29.040 the request was not granted by the court and therefore 0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:32.400 no order was given to the police, or the order 0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:36.840