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Speaker 1: Hey, listeners Jessica here, be sure to check out new

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Speaker 1: episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts. For early and ad free listening, check out

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Speaker 1: Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed

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Speaker 1: in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed

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Speaker 1: and participating in the show, and do not represent those

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Speaker 1: of Tenderfoot TV and Resonate recordings. All individuals described or

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Speaker 1: mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found

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Speaker 1: guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject

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Speaker 1: matter such as violence and graphic descriptions, which may not

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Speaker 1: be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. October

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, the same month, Jessica's neighbor Laura sees authority

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Speaker 1: swabbing of futon and head board near the driveway of

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Speaker 1: the Journeys residence. A heated text message exchange starts between

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Speaker 1: a man from the Lakeview neighborhood and another individual who

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Speaker 1: he believes to be a fellow neighbor.

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Speaker 2: I guess if you ask like my family of friends,

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Speaker 2: they would probably be like I'm they wouldn't be surprised.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious by nature and these types of things, and

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Speaker 2: when it happens so close to your home, it tugs

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Speaker 2: on you a little bit more.

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Speaker 3: I guess.

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Speaker 1: It started pretty simple, like I said, just a neighbor

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Speaker 1: texting someone he believed to be another neighbor. But what

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Speaker 1: it led to is well astounding, and now for the

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Speaker 1: first time, this neighbor is ready to share his story.

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Speaker 2: I felt like I had, I guess, a responsibility or

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Speaker 2: a duty to tell my side and say what happened,

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Speaker 2: And you know how everything went to.

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Speaker 1: In our last episode, we learned how Jessica's sister Audrey

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Speaker 1: formed her own village of sorts within the Lakeview neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: with many Lakeview residents stepping up and helping in this

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Speaker 1: investigation in various ways. But as I had mentioned, there's

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Speaker 1: one other neighbor we spoke with who may arguably hold

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Speaker 1: the biggest piece of evidence in this case that we

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Speaker 1: know of, So we headed over to his Lakeview home

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Speaker 1: to sit down and hear his story. He asked to

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Speaker 1: go by a pseudonym for this podcast.

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Speaker 2: My name is Jay Royce. I live in the neighborhood

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Speaker 2: where Jessica Easterly was found.

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Speaker 1: Jay's involvement in this case started just like his neighbor Laura's,

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Speaker 1: when he spotted a crime stoppers flyer on a telephone

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Speaker 1: pole near his home.

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Speaker 2: I came across the sign one day on my way

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Speaker 2: home from work and googled her name because I hadn't

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Speaker 2: heard of the case or her and that kind of

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Speaker 2: opened a Pandora's box of things online with podcasts and

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Speaker 2: websites and news stories, and I started just kind of

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Speaker 2: doing a little more research and digging into.

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Speaker 1: It as a concern. Neighbor Jay quickly turned into an

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Speaker 1: Internet sleuth of sorts.

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Speaker 2: I was apparently living here at the time of it happening,

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Speaker 2: and no one that I know had heard of it,

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Speaker 2: so it kind of pequed my curiosity a little bit

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Speaker 2: that a body.

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Speaker 3: Was found not far from my house. It's a little disturbing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's no way anyone can feel good about that,

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Speaker 2: especially not knowing officially what happened to her. But it's

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Speaker 2: just an unsettling feeling.

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Speaker 1: He nervously takes a sip of his bourbon on the

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Speaker 1: rocks as we continue our conversation. Holding his low ball glass.

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Speaker 1: He tells us about Lakeview.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we have your petty theft stuff where people

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Speaker 2: break into cars here and there, but something like that

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Speaker 2: is definitely out of the ordinary. I mean, it was

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Speaker 2: kind of a running thing where it was if you

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Speaker 2: had your car broken into or something to report that,

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Speaker 2: don't hold your breath while waiting for the police to

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Speaker 2: come and check on it, because they may not even

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Speaker 2: show up. And that's happened multiple times from what I've heard.

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Speaker 2: Not saying that they're bad people or anything like that,

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Speaker 2: but I think they're probably understaffed and overwhelmed and have.

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Speaker 1: It was Jay's lack of faith in the NPD that

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Speaker 1: led him to continue his online search in an attempt

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Speaker 1: to learn more about Jessica's case. Of course, in his research,

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Speaker 1: he learned of her husband, Justin. He also learned that

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Speaker 1: Justin lived in the neighborhood. So Jay opened up his

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Speaker 1: next door app, a neighborhood forum of sorts, and that's

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Speaker 1: when he spotted Justin.

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Speaker 2: We had just googled his name just to see who

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Speaker 2: he was, and I noticed on one of these apps,

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Speaker 2: on like a neighborhood app. It was right around the

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Speaker 2: time of her death, where he starts posting on this

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Speaker 2: neighborhood app, just trying to be friendly with people and saying, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know about this, know about that. If you need

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Speaker 2: any help, call me, and he would post his number

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Speaker 2: and nobody's posting their number ever, And he did that

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Speaker 2: multiple times, and then all of a sudden had stopped,

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Speaker 2: like right around the time where it was confirmed that

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Speaker 2: it was her.

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Speaker 3: I literally just stopped. He had never posted again.

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Speaker 1: Jay was upset about everything he'd read on Jessica's case,

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Speaker 1: and since Justin had posted his phone number in the

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Speaker 1: next door app, Jay decided to text him, but since

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Speaker 1: he was a stranger to Justin, he didn't really expect

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Speaker 1: a conversation to form, but it did. While the number

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Speaker 1: J texted is the same number Justin gave to police

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Speaker 1: when Jessica went missing, and the same number her loved

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Speaker 1: ones had saved as Justin in their phones, it's important

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Speaker 1: to note that we have no way of verifying whether

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Speaker 1: or not Justin was in possession of the phone number

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Speaker 1: at the time of these text messages. Jay shared the

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Speaker 1: original text exchanges with us, and we're going to read

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Speaker 1: the ones we can and have Jay fill in the gaps.

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Speaker 1: I'll have Todd voice Jay Royce's text, and I'll voice

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Speaker 1: the other individual's text. It started on September twenty, twenty twenty.

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Speaker 4: Hey, justin how.

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Speaker 3: You've been.

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Speaker 1: Great, struggling a bit.

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Speaker 3: Too bad?

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Speaker 4: Better than being in the sandbox though, huh.

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Speaker 1: True? My dog died.

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Speaker 2: And I thought that was kind of funny because I

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Speaker 2: did see his dog being walked in the neighborhood the

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Speaker 2: day before, and I've seen his dog walked subsequently after

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Speaker 2: that as well.

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Speaker 3: I didn't text him anymore at that moment.

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Speaker 1: While the initial text exchange ended at this point, that

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Speaker 1: wasn't the end of their communication. To Jay's surprise, things

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Speaker 1: would continue and become much more personal. For legal reasons,

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Speaker 1: we can only read certain excerpts of the next portion.

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Speaker 1: The texting commenced again on October fifteenth.

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Speaker 4: Thought your dog was dead? You aren't very sealer, silence, mortalous,

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Speaker 4: sleep tight?

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Speaker 1: What the fuck you lay mass bitch?

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Speaker 3: Lol?

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Speaker 4: You can't even spell fuck you bitch.

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Speaker 1: As the conversation starts to spiral, Jay makes strong accusations.

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Speaker 1: The unknown individual replies to Jay's accusations, saying, quote, she

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Speaker 1: was cheating. At this point, you may be thinking, as

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Speaker 1: I am, why would this other individual be so open

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Speaker 1: and candid with a total stranger doesn't make sense. Well,

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Speaker 1: it quickly becomes evident that this person was under the

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Speaker 1: impression that Jay was someone they knew very well, saying, quote,

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Speaker 1: you were my best friend, and.

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Speaker 2: He somehow thought I was his best friend when we

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Speaker 2: were texting, never questioned who I was. So when I

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Speaker 2: realized that he thought I was somebody else, I decided

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Speaker 2: to press him a little bit, went adam hard to

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Speaker 2: get him to be a little defensive. He ended up

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Speaker 2: saying that you know, I didn't kill her.

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Speaker 1: She slip and fell. Where in the bathroom?

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Speaker 4: Then how'd she get to the train tracks?

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Speaker 1: Bro, I panicked and drove there.

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Speaker 4: You need to come clean and let the family have peace.

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Speaker 1: Why if I'm an incident? We believe the other individual's

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Speaker 1: final message was intended to be why if I'm innocent?

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Speaker 1: This was the last text exchanged between Jay and the

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Speaker 1: other unknown person.

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Speaker 2: So that's when we knew that there was that he

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Speaker 2: probably is not. He's got a screw loose. I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: be surprised if he was high on something in the

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Speaker 2: midst of this, because apparently within a couple of days

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Speaker 2: he deleted this number and it was no longer his.

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Speaker 1: It was.

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Speaker 3: It belonged to someone else.

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Speaker 1: Take me there. How do you know that?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 2: I know that for a couple of reasons. I know

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Speaker 2: a police officer told me it was someone else's number

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Speaker 2: at that point, and then to verify that, we texted

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Speaker 2: the guy and said, you know who is this?

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Speaker 1: A few days later, Jay calls the number.

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Speaker 2: We called him and he said this isn't him, and

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Speaker 2: I said, prove you aren't him and call me. So

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Speaker 2: then he called and I could tell by his voice

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Speaker 2: it wasn't him, but it was a kid, definitely wasn't

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Speaker 2: a man.

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Speaker 3: He's like, I don't know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: Jay reached out to Audrey and Maria and shared screenshots

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Speaker 1: of the text conversation.

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Speaker 3: She was like, holy shit.

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Speaker 2: And within about fifteen minutes, a detective from NOPD called

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Speaker 2: me to their credit in which I wasn't expecting, and

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Speaker 2: he was trying to set up a time for me

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Speaker 2: to come in and hand over my phone so they

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Speaker 2: could do some forensic analysis on it.

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Speaker 3: So we did that.

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Speaker 1: What was the timeframe in which you had your phone in?

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Speaker 3: Just a few days? Yeah, like two or three at

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Speaker 3: the most.

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Speaker 4: And then the police told you specifically that that phone

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Speaker 4: was no longer his.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then I wanted to verify that, and I did.

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Speaker 4: Did he define it like a it stopped being his

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Speaker 4: two days after those texts or.

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Speaker 3: They didn't get into specifics on that.

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Speaker 2: Apparently it's one of those like internet numbers where you could, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, get rid of quickly or something like that

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Speaker 2: and request a new one and it just gets a

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Speaker 2: sign to somebody else who's wanting a new one or something.

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Speaker 2: But I know that whatever he was using, it allowed

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Speaker 2: him to get rid of the number and move on

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Speaker 2: and have that number be.

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Speaker 1: A sign of someone else, regardless of who owns the

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Speaker 1: phone number. Now Jay believes what he believes. He's learned

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Speaker 1: even more about the case since that text conversation, and

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Speaker 1: over time he's only become more troubled by everything. But

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Speaker 1: since we are unable to verify that Justin still used

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Speaker 1: that phone number at that time without supporting evidence, there's

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Speaker 1: also a real possibility that this was just simply another

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Speaker 1: person Jay was texting with. There's no real way to know.

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Speaker 1: What I can say is that if this was in

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Speaker 1: fact a different person, it does seem striking to Todd

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Speaker 1: and I that there were a lot of parallels between

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Speaker 1: the text exchange and what we do know about Jessica

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Speaker 1: and the circumstances surrounding her death. The fact that NPD

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Speaker 1: took these texts and investigated them seems to show they

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Speaker 1: took this exchange seriously. But I want to be very

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Speaker 1: clear and remind everyone that no charges of any kind

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Speaker 1: have been brought against Justin in relation to Jessica's death.

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Speaker 1: After ending our conversation with Jay, I'm left with so

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Speaker 1: many questions, and it feels more important now than ever

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Speaker 1: before to try and make contact with Justin myself to

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Speaker 1: see if he may have any insight into all of this,

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Speaker 1: some kind of explanation to this conversation and all the

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Speaker 1: other things that are left unanswered. We figure there's no

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Speaker 1: better option than to go straight to Justin's front door.

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Speaker 1: I make my way up to the front door while

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Speaker 1: Todd waits in the car. After a few knocks, the

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Speaker 1: door opens. It's not who I expected. Hi is justin home. No,

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Speaker 1: he is not doing know when who might be back.

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Speaker 3: I haven't heard from him for a week.

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Speaker 1: A week, I'm greeted by an older Asian man who's

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Speaker 1: tall but hunched over in the doorway. He's shirtless and

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Speaker 1: appears to have just woken up. The door is kept cracked,

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Speaker 1: but I can see a glimpse of the inside. It's

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Speaker 1: dark and still on the other side. It's not clear

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Speaker 1: whether Justin's daughter Grace or his father justin senr or home.

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Speaker 1: Do you know where he might be?

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Speaker 3: He's probably he's on a job site right now, so

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: In New Orleans no, Oh, okay, Oh, he's out of town. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: I remember that Laura, Justin and Jessica's neighbor who we

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Speaker 1: heard from previously mentioned that a man moved in sometime

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Speaker 1: after Jessica's death. Laura believes the man's name is Bart.

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Speaker 1: Are you Bart? By chance? Would you actually? I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: a journalist. I'm working on a story about Yes, I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you, I'm a journalist. My name's Jessica Nole and

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Speaker 1: I'm working on a story about Jessica. And I had

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Speaker 1: just heard that you had that he had a roommate

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Speaker 1: named Bart. That was all did you know, Jessica?

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Speaker 5: You know, well, I came I met chessman after sit maskaway.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay, but.

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Speaker 3: You're totally you know the people in this neighborhood. I

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Speaker 3: will tell you pluck me and then you're publicly.

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Speaker 4: Fuck these people.

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Speaker 1: Why what's going on?

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Speaker 3: Okay, same reason you know my name?

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Speaker 1: After Bart slams the door, I leave my business card

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Speaker 1: on the mailbox and then return to the car to

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Speaker 1: update Todd on the encounter. Let's move along for a minute. Okay,

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Speaker 1: do you hear that? With no luck on our door, knock,

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Speaker 1: Todd and I takes some time to strategize and make

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Speaker 1: the decision to head back to the hotel and try

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Speaker 1: reaching Justin by other means.

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Speaker 6: For Colin has been forwarded to voicemail.

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Speaker 1: Todd first dials the number for what we believe is

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Speaker 1: Justin's landline, and after several unanswered calls, someone finally answers,

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Speaker 1: this time it's not Bart, and it's not Justin, but

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Speaker 1: rather Justin SR. Unfortunately, he seems to have trouble hearing,

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Speaker 1: making the conversation difficult.

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Speaker 4: Justin Hello, Hello, Justin? Hello?

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Speaker 3: Hello? Can you hear me? Go ahead?

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Speaker 4: Is this Justin Senior?

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Speaker 7: Yeah? Hi?

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Speaker 3: How are you?

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Speaker 4: How are you doing today? Well? Hey, my name is

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Speaker 4: Todd Macomas, and I wanted to see if I could

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Speaker 4: talk to you for a second, I'm trying to find Justin.

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Speaker 3: Do you know where he's at?

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Speaker 1: Where is he?

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Speaker 4: I'm trying to find Justin, trying to get a hold

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Speaker 4: of him. Do you know where he is or how

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Speaker 4: I can get a hold of him.

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Speaker 8: I assume he's at work.

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Speaker 3: Oh, he's at work. Does he work here?

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Speaker 4: Local?

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Speaker 7: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Oh, you don't know what kind of works he do?

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Speaker 4: Is he new construction? I?

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Speaker 8: No, No.

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Speaker 4: When was the last time you saw Justin?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Has it been a while?

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Speaker 3: Like four days?

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Speaker 4: Five days?

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Speaker 3: Know?

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Speaker 4: A long time? Short time? Hello?

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Speaker 3: He hung up?

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Speaker 1: So no luck via phone either. Back to square one.

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Speaker 1: Over several late night caffeine field conversations in our French

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Speaker 1: Quarter hotel room. We remember a name that Justin mentioned before.

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Speaker 1: It was in the bodycam audio we listened to a

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Speaker 1: while back.

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Speaker 4: A good friend of mine, a prominent lawyer here. I

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Speaker 4: called him and I was like, Ralph Whalen is his

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Speaker 4: last name?

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Speaker 5: Like Ralph?

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Speaker 4: He goes, I did remember what a reasonable person would believe.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, you know what's not reasonable this?

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Speaker 7: There's nothing reasonable about this.

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Speaker 1: Maybe Ralph will know where we can find Justin, so

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00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,400
Speaker 1: we look him up Ralph Whalen is apparently a prominent

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00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,119
Speaker 1: white collar criminal defense and personal injury attorney in New Orleans.

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Speaker 1: He's been practicing law since nineteen seventy one. We thought

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00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 1: maybe Justin would be open to a sit down if

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Speaker 1: his attorney friend was present. So Todd makes a call

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Speaker 1: to Ralph.

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Speaker 4: Hi, Ralph, my name is Todd Mcomas. I'm calling about

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Speaker 4: an individual that you may or may not be representing.

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Speaker 4: His name is Justin Derning. Yeah, yeah, he's retained your services. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 4: are you generally retained or are you retaining him for

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Speaker 4: a specific matter.

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Speaker 2: Well, he's a friend, and I mean I can't even.

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Speaker 9: Tell you that I'm specifically retained or anything.

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Speaker 2: He's a friend of mine.

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Speaker 7: So, oh, okay, who are you with.

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Speaker 4: I'm a retired detective with the Indiana State Police.

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Speaker 1: And Todd explains to Ralph that we were working on

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Speaker 1: a story regarding Jessica that we would really like to

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Speaker 1: talk to Justin if he'd be open to it. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: Ralph wasn't able to answer our questions, but he told

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Speaker 1: us he would pass along our information to Justin and

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Speaker 1: said we could follow up with him via email. So

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Speaker 1: after their conversation ended. I sent an email to Ralph,

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Speaker 1: but I have yet to receive a response. As it stands,

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Speaker 1: Justin is mia. After unsuccessfully trying Justin multiple times by

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Speaker 1: various means, we tried to think outside the box. If

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Speaker 1: we couldn't speak with him directly to get our questions answered,

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00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,399
Speaker 1: maybe his family could give us some insight. We spoke

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Speaker 1: to several members of his extended family, and while it

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00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 1: helped provide some context to his family's history and roots

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00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,680
Speaker 1: in the area, it didn't get us any closer to

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Speaker 1: learning what he may have known about the days around

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Speaker 1: Jessica's death and disappearance. The family feels terrible about Jessica

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Speaker 1: and how her family is still left looking for justice.

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Speaker 1: While they may not have been close to her, they

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Speaker 1: still feel a connection. After all, she was Justin's wife.

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Speaker 1: If you remember, we've previously mentioned Justin's second wife, Lauren,

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Speaker 1: who he was married to when he first met Jessica. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: Lauren was not willing to talk to us for the podcast,

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Speaker 1: but someone who was willing to speak with us was

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Speaker 1: his other ex Dolores Wenzel Lacasio, who is Grace's mom.

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Speaker 1: So I reached out to her, not really knowing what

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Speaker 1: to expect, but I was surprised to find that not

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Speaker 1: only was she open to talking with us, she was

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Speaker 1: very candid about their life together. Dolores doesn't shy away

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Speaker 1: from the fact that over the years she has had

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Speaker 1: some issues in her life stemming from addiction, and that

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Speaker 1: brings us to the beginning of her and Justin's story.

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Speaker 9: I was thirty two at the time, and I was

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Speaker 9: in my first marriage, and I'll just be completely brutally honest,

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Speaker 9: which is that I had an overdose that I had

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Speaker 9: on purpose, trying to kill myself. Subsequently, I told the

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Speaker 9: doctor that I needed help with getting off of medication,

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Speaker 9: and so they sent me outpatient day program from eight

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Speaker 9: in the morning to four in the afternoon, kind of

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Speaker 9: like a school for etics. That's where Justin and I met.

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Speaker 1: Although she admits to battling with addiction, then Delores can

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Speaker 1: vividly recount her life by Justin's side. After living together

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Speaker 1: in Louisiana for some time, the couple moved to Arizona,

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Speaker 1: and it was while they were living out west that

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Speaker 1: she found out she was pregnant with Grace.

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Speaker 7: I took a pregnancy test and I was in the bathroom.

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Speaker 7: He's like, well, what the fuck does it say? And

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Speaker 7: I'm like, he broke the door down in Arizona. He's like, mother, whatever,

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Speaker 7: And he took the test and it's like ping ping, ping, ping, ping,

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Speaker 7: off of all the sides of the freaking wall. And

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Speaker 7: he punched me right there, like congratulations.

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Speaker 1: She vividly remembers the look in his eyes that night

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Speaker 1: in the bathroom and she was holding the pregnancy test.

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Speaker 9: The eyes go black and you're looking right through them.

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Speaker 7: It's like their eyes are full of dust.

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Speaker 9: There's no soul.

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Speaker 7: But when you look at him, they don't see you.

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00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 7: You're looking or they're looking right through you, and it

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Speaker 7: is horrific.

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Speaker 1: Delores describes a very turbulent relationship with Justin. But this

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Speaker 1: is not the first time we've heard accusations like this

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00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: made against Justin. We heard similar comments in regards to

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Speaker 1: Justin's second marriage to Lauren. Again. We had reached out

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Speaker 1: to Lauren directly, hoping she'd be open to sharing her story,

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Speaker 1: but she explained she did not want to participate, and

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Speaker 1: I can understand the hesitation. But we were able to

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Speaker 1: obtain a copy of a petition that Lauren filed for

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Speaker 1: domestic abuse protection order with the Justice Court of Golfport, Mississippi.

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Speaker 1: We requested a copy of that restraining order from the

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Speaker 1: Golfport Police Department, but there was no order of protection

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00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 1: on file. However, in her sworn statement in that petition

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Speaker 1: dated August third, twenty eleven, Lauren stated that on July twelfth,

393
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Speaker 1: twenty eleven, Justin attacked and choked her inside their home.

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00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: She checked a box on that petition that states petitioner

395
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 1: submits there exist immediate and present danger of abuse. She

396
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,360
Speaker 1: also checked the box that states that a divorce is pending.

397
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 1: The Gulfport Police were unable to locate any record of

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00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 1: this domestic abuse protective order, which could simply mean that

399
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: the request was not granted by the court and therefore

400
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 1: no order was given to the police, or the order

401
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: may have been granted but has since expired. In some cases,

402
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: police departments purge records after a few years, depending on

403
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: what they are. Either way, no record was on file

404
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: with the police, but they did send us a copy

405
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: of a police report from May twenty six, two thousand nine,

406
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 1: in which Justin was arrested for the offense unlawful for

407
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: convicted felon to possess any firearms, which followed a felony

408
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 1: conviction for prescription fraud in Jefferson Parish, Louisiana. Further jail

409
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: records show that on August sixteenth, twenty eleven, Justin was

410
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: arrested and charged in Harrison County, Mississippi, on a domestic

411
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 1: violence charge. We have requested that report. While we're on

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00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: the topic of records, there was one item that comes

413
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: up many times in conversations about justin his military record.

414
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: If Justin had, in fact served in the military, I

415
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,199
Speaker 1: wanted to be able to confirm this important chapter in

416
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: his life, so we made public records requests through multiple

417
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: veteran and military agencies, including the Department of Justice and

418
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: the National Archives Personnel records. Based on the information we

419
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: provided in those requests, there were no military records of

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00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: any branch of service that could be verified for Justin

421
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: Derning Junior. As we continue our conversation with Dolores, she

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00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: tells us that after the incident in the bathroom, she

423
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: and Justin's relationship began to sour, but eventually the couple

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00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: moved back to Louisiana.

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00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 9: When we came back from Arizona. That was the end

426
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 9: of our relationship.

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00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 7: You know, when somebody's sitting right next to you, but

428
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 7: for all purposes, they could be on another planet. He

429
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 7: was there physically, but he had gone.

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00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 9: He was gone.

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00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 7: I call him a narcissist because he fits just the profile,

432
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 7: not because I'm like this mean angry ex Yes, I'm

433
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 7: angry over a lot of things, but is he wanted something.

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00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 7: He was being so nice and he picked me up

435
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 7: and he brought me over to see Grace and not thinking.

436
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 7: I didn't think it was going to be the last time.

437
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 7: And she was beautiful, but I could already see the

438
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 7: distances coming. She didn't recognize me, you know, that short

439
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 7: of a time.

440
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 9: And then I held her and she smiled, and then

441
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 9: guess who drives up.

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00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: It's Justin's mom.

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00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 7: What they wanted was a long form my birth certificate

444
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 7: because they wanted to get childcare benefits or money. And

445
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 7: then they wanted me to sign a paper for temporary

446
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 7: custody and I said, not on your life. He said, oh, well,

447
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 7: f you, because guess what when the cops arrested you,

448
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 7: you signed over custody. I said, Justin, oh, that's a

449
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 7: good one. Put that one in the books. I said, please,

450
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 7: don't make you sign over custody. You're full of shit,

451
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 7: and then he was mad, that'll be the last time

452
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 7: you ever seen me here this kid. Yeah, well you're right.

453
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: That's forward to twenty nineteen. When Dolores heard about Jessica's death,

454
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: she went straight to the ENOPD to help in any

455
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: way she could. Having had a close relationship to Jessica's husband,

456
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: she figured she could give them some insight, But according

457
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: to Dolores, talking to the NOPD was a pretty fruitless effort.

458
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 7: He was very dismissive and he said, look, we've already

459
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 7: solved it. I said, so basically, I'll just say it.

460
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 7: You're thinking, what Junkie Jr. Goes to cop.

461
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 6: Dope and deal goes wrong and guy breaks her neck

462
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 6: and leaves her and she falls without her shoe in

463
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 6: the womb position.

464
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 7: He goes, you're being sarcastic. I said, of course, absolutely, because.

465
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 9: That's a ridiculous theory.

466
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 7: I said, the truth of the matter is this is

467
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 7: someone's daughter, okay, and this is bullshit.

468
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 9: I don't care that you think you have to prioritize

469
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 9: because there's five sillion murders. This woman is important.

470
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 7: She's a sister, she is a daughter, she was a wife,

471
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 7: and she was a stepmother to my child. They need

472
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 7: to take this shit into account.

473
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: As you can hear in her voice, the weight of

474
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: her past still spills over into her present, despite being

475
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: in a much better place in life these days, but

476
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: everything she's experienced has helped her gain a newfound perspective.

477
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 7: The first narrative you hear, unfortunately, is usually the one

478
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,239
Speaker 7: you believe. It's all about perception because everyone has a

479
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 7: different perception of the truth. Think about it. Because everyone

480
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 7: has a reason and everyone has a motive.

481
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 9: Justice will be sirved. Karma needs to happen, maybe not

482
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 9: in my life, but somebody's time.

483
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: No matter how obvious it all seems to Dolores, this

484
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: case remains undetermined and is in dire need of some answers.

485
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: It still feels like the one person in this who

486
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: could possibly hold some answers is Justin. But as for

487
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: our efforts to find Justin while in New Orleans, door knocks,

488
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: phone calls, emails, and text messages, well, unfortunately, for now

489
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: they're all a bust. One of the reasons we had

490
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: hoped to speak to Justin was simply to get his story.

491
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: But another reason we wished to speak with him was

492
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: because at this point, more than five hundred days since

493
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: Jessica's death, he'd yet to claim her remains from the corner,

494
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: and her family was desperate to have at least that.

495
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: Even Jay Royce, the neighbor we spoke to at the

496
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: beginning of this episode, has an opinion when it comes

497
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:50,479
Speaker 1: to this topic.

498
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: Her poor family was one enclosure and just wanting, you know,

499
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 2: to be able to have a ceremony of some sorts.

500
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: You know, some one dies, you have a funeral.

501
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 3: That's what you do.

502
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: He had the sole decision power on allowing her to

503
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 2: stay in the morgue.

504
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 3: Why would you do that?

505
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: Even if he couldn't afford a funeral, then might not

506
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: just release it to the family so they.

507
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 3: Could do it. It made no sense.

508
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: Again, we haven't been able to speak with Justin about

509
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,959
Speaker 1: this or about anything. Like I said, he's mia at

510
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: this time, but in an interesting turn of events, his

511
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: absence might just lead to a bit of resolution. Out

512
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: of the blue, Jessica's sister, Audrey, receives a phone call

513
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: not from Justin, but from the coroner's office.

514
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 8: The coroner called me and asked me if my name

515
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 8: was Audrey Schmidt and I said yes, And I said,

516
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 8: can we have Jessica? He said, well, he goes, I'm

517
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 8: going to have to make it legal and send justin

518
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 8: legal notices.

519
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 5: I was like okay.

520
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 8: I was like, well, can you give me a timeline?

521
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 8: He said, I cannot give you a timeline.

522
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 5: I felt like, oh my god, finally they're releastener to us.

523
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: Undetermined is a production of Resonate Recordings and Tenderfoot TV

524
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: in conjunction with Cadence thirteen, written and hosted by me

525
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: Jessica Nole and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd McComas,

526
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: with additional production by Whitney Bow. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper,

527
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: Mark Minnery, Jacob Bozart, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our

528
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing, mastering and sound

529
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: design by Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole and Pat kid Glider

530
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: of the Resonate Recordings team. If you have a podcast

531
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: or are looking to start one, check us out at

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00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: resonate Recordings dot com. Our theme song and original score

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00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: is by Dirt Poor Robbins, with additional scoring by Dayton Cole.

534
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Speaker 1: Our cover art is by Station sixteen. You can follow

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00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: Undetermined Podcast on Facebook and on Twitter at Undetermined Pod.

536
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: Show notes as well as bonus content can be found

537
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: on our website undetermined pod dot com. If you enjoyed

538
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: this episode, please take time to subscribe, rate, and review.

539
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: Your feedback is greatly apreciate it. And finally, if you

540
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: have any information about this case, call crime Stoppers at

541
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: one eight seven seven nine zero three seven eight sixty

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00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: seven