1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mob Never Told You. From House to 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: abortion dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: President and I'm Caroline. And this is part two of 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: our two parter on the history of abortion and really 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: the history of the criminalization and subsequent legalization of abortion 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: focused here in the United States. Yeah, in our last 7 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: episode we essentially ended on the point where abortion had 8 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: become illegal across America. Women who sought abortions were considered 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: immoral and irresponsible. There was no discussion of what responsibility 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: the father had, if any, and all of this was 11 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: set against the backdrop of being the progressive era, where 12 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people assumed they knew better, that they 13 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: knew better than women of whatever class, but particul clearly 14 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: poor women. Uh they assume they knew better than women 15 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: of color. Uh, they assumed they knew better than midwives. 16 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: And that all of these people were just essentially helpless, unintelligent, immoral, 17 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: low class people who should be taught just how immoral 18 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: they were being by seeking abortions. And there's one person 19 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: in particular who is complex and controversial but also a 20 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: pioneer and someone who in a very fascinating way encompasses 21 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: all of these elements. Is it me, Caroline and it's conger, 22 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, thank you. It is Margaret Sanger. Okay, 23 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: well I think she was also a brunette. I'll take it. Yeah, 24 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: another brown eyed girl, yes, exactly. Um. And of course 25 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: Margaret Sanger was controversial in her day, just as she's 26 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: still controversial now. But in an effort to provide women 27 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: a way to prevent pregnancy, she wanted to liberate them. 28 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: She wanted to give women a choice in limiting their families, 29 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: but in doing so, she also wanted to prevent abortion. 30 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: She was not on the abortion train, so to speak. 31 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: But this is a woman who also then helped found 32 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: Planned Parenthood exactly. And um, she came of age under 33 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: the Comstock era laws. And for those of you who 34 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: haven't listened to part one, just as a recap, Anthony 35 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: Comstock is the worst. He basically is responsible for outlawing 36 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:51,239 Speaker 1: any sort of birth control related information being sent through 37 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: the mail. And regardless, sang Or dedicated her life to 38 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: legalizing birth control, the very thing that would be illegal 39 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: to talk to people about some correspondence about I'm sure 40 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: you could not advertise birth control the time. And she 41 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: wanted to develop what she called a magic pill to 42 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: help save women's lives. Yeah, and so it's worth noting, 43 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: like I was saying, that Sanger thought that abortion was 44 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: okay only as a last resort to save the mother's life. 45 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: She thought that doing it to limit offspring was dangerous 46 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: and vicious. But the whole thing was that she felt 47 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: that providing women a safe contraceptive method would make abortion 48 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: wholly unnecessary, Which is interesting when you revisit that thought today, 49 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: because so many people are still against comprehensive sex said. 50 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: They're against providing birth control or contraception of any kind, 51 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: and yet they're also against letting people have abortions. So 52 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: Sanger's reasoning was, if we teach women and couples, not 53 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: just women but couples about contraception, we can prevent this 54 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: thing that so many people seemed to dislike so much. 55 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: And this conviction was deeply personal for her because she 56 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: watched her Irish Catholic mother essentially waste away at forty 57 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: eight from tuberculosis after having eleven children and seven miscarriages. 58 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: And after she grew up, she worked as a nurse 59 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: in New York, where she treated poor immigrant women who 60 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: pursued unsafe abortions after using ineffective contraception. So she saw firsthand, 61 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: on you know, professional and also a very personal familial level, 62 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: the the impact of women not having choice or any 63 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,559 Speaker 1: control really over their bodies. Right, and she it's it's 64 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: said that she blamed her father, like over her mother's coffin, 65 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: for his sex drive that killed her mother. But if 66 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: we're going chronologically, Margaret Sanger was super busy in the 67 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: years nineteen fourteen and nineteen six team who wasn't seriously 68 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: I mean, can't get a break. But so in this time, 69 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen fourteen, she coins the term birth control. So 70 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: anytime in this episode, in the previous episode we've said 71 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: the words birth control, those words didn't even really exist 72 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: yet in the way that we think of them until 73 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: Sanger coined the term. Uh. In nineteen fifteen, she was 74 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: indicted for sending diaphragms through the mail, and then in 75 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: nineteen sixteen, she opens the country's first birth control clinic 76 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn. Of course, it was shut down just a 77 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: few days later, and Sanger was convicted under those Comstock 78 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: laws of disseminating birth control info. But she's a sneaky 79 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 1: little minx. And she did that on purpose. It's not 80 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: like she was like, Oh, I'm gonna hope that no 81 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: one notices and I'm going to be mailing women diaphragms 82 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: in Ohio. No, she knew that it was against the 83 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: law to disseminate birth control and to disseminate information about 84 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: birth control, So she herself leaked the information to the 85 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: press so that she could fight basically within the newspapers 86 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: and from court these terrible freaking comstock laws. And when 87 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: she appealed her conviction, she won, and it led to 88 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: a new interpretation of New York's anti contraception statute, exempting 89 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: doctors from the rule prohibiting birth control information dissemination if 90 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: it was for medical reasons. There we go, So Sanger 91 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: gets their first big victory. Then in she found the 92 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: American Birth Control League, which is the precursor to Planned parenthood. Yeah, 93 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: And the thing is, she wouldn't have been able to 94 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: do that had she not gone through the trouble of 95 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: mailing diaphragms, you know what I mean, Like, she could 96 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: never have had this clinic unless she broke the law. 97 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: She had her good friend Catherine money Bags McClintock smuggled 98 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: these diaphragms back in her coat from Europe so that 99 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: she could mail them. And of course, btw, if you 100 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: want to learn more about Kathery McLintock, you need to 101 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: go over to our sister podcast, Stuff you Missed in 102 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: History Class. They've got a great episode all about her. 103 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: But any who, in nine three, uh, the Clinical Research 104 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: Bureau opens and it's part of that American Birth Control League. 105 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: It's the first legal birth control clinic and it serves 106 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: as the abc l's medical arms. So it provides couples 107 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: with contraception and counseling, It conducts research and a contraceptive 108 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: and reproduction related medical practices. So she's a she's a genius, 109 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: like managing to break the law in order to be 110 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: able to open essentially what is like a loophole clinic, Like, oh, well, 111 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: you know, I can't provide women with birth control or 112 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: birth control education, but these doctors can. And so, after 113 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: a lot of wrangling and separating and merging and renaming 114 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: these two groups, these two related groups become Planned Parenthood 115 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty two and in nineteen forty eight. Just 116 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: a few years later, Planned Parenthood awards a grant to 117 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: the pretty nutty doctor Gregory Pinkis who works with John 118 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,559 Speaker 1: Rock to create the pill. So Sanger was the ideas lady. 119 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: She's like cornering Pinkus at cocktail parties, being like, you're 120 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: gonna do this for me, and he's like, cool, let's 121 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: do it. I'm already testing things in possibly unethical ways, 122 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: and wealthy feminist suffragist Katherine McCormick teamed up with her 123 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: to encourage that research and development. So you've got these 124 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: women with kookie ideas about giving women their freedom to 125 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: choose what kind of life they want to live. And 126 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: by the nineteen sixties, planned parenthood had become this major 127 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: force for women's health, birth control, and family planning. In 128 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty two, President Alan Gootmacker is this huge 129 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 1: advocate for abortion access in the wake of these health 130 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: crises in the United States, the Philidamide and Rebella crises, 131 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: which led to a lot of birth defects, a lot 132 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: of deformities among children. But abortion services do not become 133 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: part of Planned Parenthood until after the ro versus Way 134 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: decision in nineteen seventy three. Who but anyway, we've got 135 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: to back up because the whole thing about why Margaret 136 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: sang are still today is even more controversial than just 137 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: supporting birth control and women's independence. Oh my god, imagine 138 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: the thought. Also, in one the same year that she 139 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: founded the American Birth Control League, she also penned an 140 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: essay titled the Eugenic Value of birth Control Propaganda. Yeah, 141 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: so she was one of the many, many, high profile 142 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: Americans to subscribe to the eugenic theory. But the whole thing, 143 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: as Jean H. Baker argues in her book Margaret sang Or, 144 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: A Life of Passion, is that her acceptance of the 145 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: movement was a calculated, pragmatic tactic. Because Margaret sang Or 146 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: was nothing y'all if not pragmatic and tactical and calculated. 147 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: Baker writes, she needed allies and eugenics, the expert qualifications 148 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: of its proponents, the scientific trappings of its evidence, it's 149 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: expanding network of journals and associations, it's general acceptance among Americans, 150 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: and even its international connections. Represented an opportunity to find 151 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: friends and join a popular movement. But the thing is 152 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: she wasn't exactly welcomed with open arms by racists and 153 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,719 Speaker 1: classis eugenicists. In fact, a lot of them dismissed her 154 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: and said that she didn't really understand the theory, and 155 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: they really weren't too interested in her birth control based 156 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: notoriety either. Um And the main reason that they kind 157 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: of gave Singer the side I was that she rejected 158 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: the notion of race suicide and that rich white people 159 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 1: should have more babies. Really, her thing, as we've said, 160 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: was trying to liberate women. In the process, she challenged 161 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: eugenicists sex for reap production idea. She really believed in 162 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: the importance of the environment in improving society because she'd 163 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: been born into one of those overpopulated, impoverished families. So 164 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: she really thought that overpopulation was the problem, not the 165 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: quote unquote good stock, as Teddy Roosevelt put it, which 166 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: is a euphemistic way of saying white folks. Yeah, white 167 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: folks working farm jobs and whatever. Uh So, when we 168 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: look at that essay from there's some good parts of it, right. 169 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: So she called birth control a new weapon of civilization 170 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: and freedom. She wrote, not until the parents of the 171 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 1: world are thus given control over their reproductive faculties will 172 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: it ever be possible, not alone, to improve the quality 173 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 1: of generations of the future, but even to maintain civilization 174 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: at its present level. And she really dismisses politicians and 175 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: theorists idealistic codes of sexual ethics, the same things that 176 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: people say today in criticizing things like abstinence only sex said, 177 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: because the whole idea of like people like sex, people 178 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 1: are gonna do the sex. Let's not have these idealistic 179 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: thoughts about people not having sex, and let's try to 180 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: meet them where they are. But of course there's the 181 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: in her essay as well, in which she writes the 182 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: eugenic and civilizational value of birth control is becoming a 183 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: parent to the enlightened and the intelligent. So I mean, 184 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: basically it seems like she I don't know, I mean 185 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: that she's sort of trying to get on their good 186 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: sides by being like, yeah, yeah, yeah, eugenics, that's totally cool, 187 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: And I've got this great way that you can make 188 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: that happen. It's through this little thing called birth control. 189 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: And if we can teach you about eugenics and the 190 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: importance of that, then in the process we can teach 191 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: mothers about prophylaxis, sexual hygiene, and infant welfare. So while 192 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: I I honestly I don't see her motives as entirely pure, 193 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: because even moderately aligning with eugenics is is not okay um. 194 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: But it does seem like she has ulterior motives to 195 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: what she's saying. Yeah, because it does get worse. I mean, 196 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie here. She basically said, listen, we 197 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: can't stand by as the poor, criminal, and disabled have 198 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: more kids than the wealthy do. But she wasn't arguing 199 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:28,839 Speaker 1: that we should, for instance, abort the children of poor 200 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: people or disabled people. She was saying, rather, all of 201 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: us should be having fewer children. She's got this really 202 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: long quote about how the unbalanced and this is this 203 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: is under the category of bad. Uh. She says, there's 204 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: this unbalanced between the birth rates of the fit and 205 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: the unfit, which is a huge menace to civilization and 206 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: the wealthy. She's saying, or the fit should not be 207 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: taking cues from the poor and the unfit by having 208 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: a children. We should all be limiting our reproduction. She 209 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 1: did go on to a point eugenicist to her clinics board, uh, 210 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: and eventually her former critics as people who were like Singer, 211 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: you're not doing eugenics right. Even her former critics came 212 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: to see birth control that she was advocating for as 213 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: a weapon against the high birth rates of the so 214 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: called deficient, though as Jane Baker writes, they still favored sterilization. 215 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: And not surprisingly though this whole you know, association with 216 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: direct association with eugenicists and the viewpoints that she's espousing 217 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: in this essay are used commonly today and attempts to 218 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: discredit Singer and convince people that birth control to some extent, 219 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: and abortion to an even greater extent, our efforts specifically 220 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: to wipe out Black people, and in fact, black activists 221 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: in the late sixties acute 's planned parenthood of committing 222 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: genocide by providing birth control in their neighborhoods, wondering, hey, 223 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: why are you setting up shop here? This seems a 224 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: little suspicious, But it's important to note as well that 225 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: back in the nineteen thirties, leaders in the black community, 226 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: including W. E. B. Du Boy and Mary McLoud Bethoon, 227 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: supported Sayer's birth control advocacy and her so called Negro Project, 228 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: or effort to open clinics for black women in the 229 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: segregated South where only white women had access to birth control, 230 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: and also to train black doctors. Yeah, and she in 231 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: an interview in ninety was telling the reporter when we 232 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: first started out, an anti Negro white man offered me 233 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars if I started in Harlem first. His 234 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: idea was simply to cut down the number of negroes, 235 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: spread it as far as you can among them. He said, 236 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: that is of course not our Yeah. I turned him down, 237 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: but that is an example of how vicious some people 238 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: can be about this thing. So her motivation, while yes 239 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: she was opening birth control clinics in black neighborhoods or 240 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: in poorer neighborhoods in general, her motivation was not to 241 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: cut down on the numbers of poor people or people 242 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: of color. Her motivation was to be the provider of 243 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: this birth control and family planning and reproductive services information 244 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: that women weren't getting elsewhere, particularly in this case women 245 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: of color. I mean Immani Gandy over at r H. 246 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: Reality Check argues that, to be honest, uh saying er 247 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: was more ablest than she was capital r racist. Did 248 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: she say racist things? Yes? Was she elitist probably, but 249 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: she had far more negative things to say about the 250 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: mentally and physically disabled in society going on to procreate 251 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: than she did about people of color. Well, in those 252 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: planned parenthood and birth control clinics being set up in 253 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: black communities might also make more sense when we look 254 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: at what was going on and the links that women, 255 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: especially poorer women and socio economically disadvantaged women, we're having 256 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: to go to in order to deal with unwanted pregnancies. 257 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: Because as we have said before, I mean, regardless of 258 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: whether abortion is illegal or not, women have had them 259 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: and will always have them. So if we go back 260 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: to nineteen thirty kind of will while Sanger is building 261 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: up for biz, abortion was listed as the official cause 262 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: of death for almost women around the United States and 263 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: nearly eighteen percent of maternal deaths recorded that year. And 264 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: this is coming from the goot Mocker Institute and down 265 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: the road. Antibiotics would help reduce the death toll um, 266 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: but I mean, if if there's another in the institute 267 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: researcher who estimated the annual illegal abortion death toll in 268 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties the entire decade at seventeen thousand, because 269 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: I mean, these numbers start to get a little unreliable 270 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: because I just mentioned is what is officially recorded but 271 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: since there were so many back alley procedures happening and 272 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: things happening in women's homes. Um, undoubtedly the number is 273 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: higher than that. But what did we do, How did 274 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: we solve this issue of this, you know, this health 275 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: crisis essentially improving safe abortion, no, no enforcement, get the 276 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: police involved. Yeah, So instead of trying to help women, 277 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: educate families, anything of that, you know, very human nature, 278 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: we essentially make women criminals. We we interrogate them while 279 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: they are hospitalized after their bodged procedures. Yeah. And in 280 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five, the thirty five years later, illegal abortion 281 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: was still accounting for seventeen percent of all deaths attributed 282 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: to pregnancy and childbirth that year. So, I mean, the 283 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: situation hasn't improved. It's not like fewer women are seeking abortions, 284 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 1: and low income women are especially hit hard by this issue. 285 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: So a study of low income women in New York 286 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: City in the nineteen sixties found that eight percent had 287 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: ever attempted to terminate a pregnancy via illegal abortion, and 288 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: seventy of those women attempted self induced abortion. And of 289 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 1: all the women they talked to, thirty eight percent of 290 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: them knew someone who had sought an illegal abortion. And 291 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: of course when it comes to illegal abortions and self 292 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: induced abortions, it gets very very dangerous, that's right. That 293 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: same study of women in New York found that one 294 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: in four white women's childbirth fatality has happened because of 295 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: an abortion, compared to one in two women of colors. 296 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 1: So there you start to see that same socio economic 297 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: issue cropping up. And from nineteen seventy two to nineteen 298 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: seventy four, in fact, the mortality rate due to illegal 299 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: abortion for non white women was twelve times greater than 300 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: that for white women. And regardless though of these statistics, 301 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: regardless of the fact that women knew that these kinds 302 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: of procedures were very dangerous and illegal, they sought them 303 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: out anyway. So again this is coming from the Gootmacker Institute. 304 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: In the nineteen fifties and sixties and estimated two hundred 305 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: thousand to one point two million abortions were performed in 306 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: the United States uh and by the nineteen sixties though, 307 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: all states but Pennsylvania had exemptions to their abortion laws. 308 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: So by this time the laws on a state by 309 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: state basis are starting to open up a little bit 310 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: people are starting to get together there even like coalitions 311 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 1: of doctors who are you know, having seen all these 312 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: patients coming in having you know, damaged themselves from illegal 313 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: or attempted self induced abortions, see the problem and realize 314 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: that something needs to be done with this. So we 315 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: we are seeing more access, but obtaining an abortion during 316 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: this time was still not very simple. Most hospitals would 317 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: have a board of doctors set up and it would 318 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: usually of course be all dudes, um where if you 319 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: were a patient in need of an abortion, you would 320 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: have to go before this board and essentially have your 321 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: procedure approved. But even getting that far meant that you 322 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: likely had to be a white woman with a little 323 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: bit of disposal income and time. So much time the 324 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 1: time to do this, I mean, you had to go 325 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: before the standing hospital committee. It might require an additional 326 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: physical exam by a doctor, it might require a mental 327 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: health exam by a psychiatrist, and then you might have 328 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 1: to have some type of law enforcement officer certifying that 329 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: a woman had actually been sexually assaulted. In the case 330 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: of saying I need the abortion because I was raped 331 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: or assaulted, yeah, I mean because during this time I 332 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: should have clarified that this is only to obtain one 333 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 1: of those therapeutic abortions. This wasn't abortion on demand, right, 334 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: And you know, you brought up the issue of UM 335 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: laws and attitudes starting to loosen up a little bit. 336 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's worth referring back to that 337 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: author Leslie Reagan who we quoted in our first episode, 338 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: where she talked a lot about the professionalization of medicine 339 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: and how that turned so many people against midwives and 340 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: against trusting women to know their own bodies. And she 341 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: pointed out, and I think it's worth noting here that 342 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: there's always been a distinction between quote unquote organized medicine 343 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: and individual physicians because organized medicine capital capital M in 344 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: all of the air quotes, was at this time, yes, 345 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: officially against abortion and in some cases maybe only accepting 346 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: of abortion in the cases of rape or ancestor things 347 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: like that. UM. But it was the doctors who were 348 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: on the front line, so to speak, who we're seeing 349 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: these desperate women who needed these procedures, who might be 350 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: trying to help women and provide them anyway. Well, and 351 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: you also have women kind of creating their own abortion 352 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: services in a way UM in nineteen three, the feminist 353 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: abortion counseling service of the Chicago Women's Liberation Union It's 354 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: a long name creates an underground abortion service code named Jane. 355 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: And the story of Jane is worth its own podcasts, honestly, 356 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: because it all started when one woman um was approached 357 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: by a friend of hers who had knew someone who 358 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: really needed an abortion. And this woman knew a doctor, 359 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: and so that kind of started the whole Thing's like, 360 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: she knew one doctor who could do it. So then 361 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 1: like the word spread that that this woman could hook 362 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: you up with a doctor who would perform an abortion. 363 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: And she realized that the more women who were coming 364 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 1: to her, how big this need was. And since abortion 365 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: and reproductive rights were such a huge issue within second 366 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: wave feminism and women's liberation, UH, they decided to kind 367 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:38,479 Speaker 1: of align with the Chicago Women's Liberation Union and about 368 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: one women set this underground service up that provided more 369 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: than eleven thousand safe and affordable abortions through nineteen seventy 370 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: three when Roe v. Wade happened. And it's fascinating that 371 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: you could even find them through the phone book. It 372 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: was actually listed under the name Jane. How and some 373 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: of those women who were working in this network actually 374 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 1: themselves became trained in administering an abortion. And it was 375 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: one first person account that we read of a woman 376 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: who went through this Jain process and she was astounded. Basically, 377 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: she's like, here are these like soccer moms. Essentially, she 378 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: didn't say that, but it was like, here are these 379 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: like well to do white ladies who have kids of 380 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: their own, and they're like having me over for tea 381 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: to prep me for the procedure, to tell me what 382 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: to expect and how to prepare and and where to go. 383 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: And she's like, you know, it just blew my mind 384 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: that these women were being so supportive. Well, and when 385 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: though the actual day would come, the women would have 386 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: to be blindfolded during the procedure so that they could 387 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,239 Speaker 1: never see the abortionists because uh, if they knew that 388 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: then that abortionists could be liable for obviously for being arrested. 389 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: But they even mentioned that some Chicago police were helpful 390 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: in a way about it, like there were a couple 391 00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: of times when you know, women would show up to 392 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: the Jane House obviously and look a little confused, and 393 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: there would be a police officer who would be like, 394 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: you just go, you know, kind of a wink and 395 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: a nudge like, yeah, you're at the right place going 396 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: up there, um, which I mean, that's it seems like 397 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: a rare exception to the rule of people generally being 398 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: awful in regard to women seeking abortion at the time, 399 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 1: But it speaks so much to the lengths that women 400 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: were willing to go to that they would train themselves well. 401 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: Also they had a doctor who trained them to um 402 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: and even performing abortions and like setting up this whole 403 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: network in Chicago. And there was even a black woman 404 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: talking about her motivation for joining Jane so that when 405 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: women of color would come through that it would be 406 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: comforting for them to see her in the room. And 407 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: how interesting though write that in our first episode we 408 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: talked about how the Progressive era really Chicago was sort 409 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: of an incubator for all of these progressive era movements, 410 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: but I mean they also existed of worse across the country. 411 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: And then you had that group of upper class white people, 412 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: both women and doctors and whoever, telling other people that 413 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: they knew better than them. And now here you've got 414 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: this wonderful underground supportive network of again middle to upper 415 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: class white women and women of color who were like, no, 416 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: I'm I'm here for my sisters to help them through 417 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: this time. And partially because of the protests and activism 418 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: of the Women's Liberation movement and concerted efforts by groups 419 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: of doctors, also religious groups, politicians, attitudes and laws were 420 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: finally starting to change. In fact, by the time Roe v. 421 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: Wade passed, most states had rolled back their abortion laws. Um, 422 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 1: there was only there only I think Pennsylvania was the 423 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: only place that completely outlawed abortion under any circumstances. So, 424 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: as has been pretty clear throughout Part one and now 425 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: our Part two discussion on abortion, it's really hard to 426 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: separate the fight for birth control from the fight for abortion. 427 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: They're all sort of one and the same, especially when 428 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: you look back at the era of the Comstock laws 429 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: in the turn of the twentieth century, and so many 430 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: people equated the two. It's it's they can't seem to 431 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: be separated in so many people's minds. And so I 432 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 1: wanted to hit on some birth control milestones that were 433 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: happening at the same time as the abortion laws were 434 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: being rolled back in so many states across the country. 435 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: So in nineteen sixty five, speaking of the Comstock laws, 436 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: the U. S. Supreme Court did away with them, saying 437 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: that the private use of contraceptives was a constitutional right, 438 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: and immediately ten states loosened their birth control restrictions, followed 439 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: in the next three years by I think thirteen others, 440 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: and then in nineteen seventy, just five years later, President 441 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: Nixon signed Title ten into law, which made contraceptives available 442 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: regardless of income and also provided funding for educational programs 443 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: and research and contraceptive development. Hey, that's a pretty cool 444 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: thing that old Nixon did. Right there, we go, all right, 445 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: thanks for that. At least Nixon um Planned Parenthood gotten 446 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: money from Titled tin and Medicaid patients to subsidize birth control, 447 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: STD screenings and other reproductive health services for patients who 448 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: might lack health insurance coverage. So that's a really big deal. 449 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: Well yeah, and that's why Title ten is so important 450 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: still today. I mean, it's still it's still with us, 451 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: and it's still helps Planned Parenthood and other reproductive health 452 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: clinics help people in this country. And then into the 453 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: Supreme Court finally, okay, is birth control used by unmarried women? Thanks? 454 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: I mean, like thank you, no, thank you, but like 455 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: guys country, United States people. It took that long for 456 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: it to be like, all right, unmarried women, like, we'll 457 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: let you have this as well. And isn't it wild 458 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: to think that it took the Supreme Court to decide 459 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: that it's wild? And yet not in this country's history, 460 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: especially considering all of the history we've just been going over. 461 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: But on the abortion front, what's happening simultaneously in this time, 462 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: If we hop back a little bit to nineteen sixty two, 463 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: the American Law Institute calls for abortion to be legal 464 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: under certain circumstances, so like in instances of rape and incests. 465 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: They were this this whole group of judges, lawyers, law 466 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,479 Speaker 1: enforcement who's saying, like, come on, like we we have 467 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: to loosen the restrictions on women who go through these 468 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: certain situations. In nineteen sixty seven, if we hop back 469 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: across the pond, Britain passes the Abortion Act, allowing for 470 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: abortion as long as two medical professionals agreed that pregnancy 471 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: endangered the mom's life or the mental or physical health 472 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: of the men and her children, or in cases of 473 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: fetal deformity and handicap. It's also in this year that 474 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: Colorado becomes the first U. S state to rework their 475 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: abortion laws based on those American Law Institute recommendations. So 476 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: this is what Kristen's talking about when she mentioned how 477 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: in America we start seeing this rollback on the across 478 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: the board ban on abortion. And in nineteen seventy we 479 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: get some really good news. Hawaii becomes the first state 480 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: to decriminalize abortion, and this is through twenty weeks and 481 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: only for residents. The big news also that year, New 482 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: York is the first to legalize abortion without that residency 483 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: requirement and through the twenty four week of pregnancy if 484 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: performed by a physician. And in the first year abortion 485 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: became legalized in New York, six of the women who 486 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: had abortions in that state came from out of town. 487 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy two, for instance, an estimated one hundred 488 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: thousand women try ravel to New York in order to 489 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: have an abortion. I mean, and that also goes to 490 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: not just the literal geographical links that women would go 491 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: to for an abortion, but think about again the time, 492 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: the cost. I remember, my mom, who has been a 493 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: flight attendant for about four hundred years, has told me 494 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: stories about how when she was first starting out flying, 495 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: and she was flying the short turnaround trips, which is basically, 496 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: you go out one day and you come back the 497 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: same day on the same plane. And she would take 498 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: up young women to New York and see them either 499 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: traveling alone or with an older woman, and that those 500 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: same women would be coming back on the night flight 501 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: on the same same return trip to Atlanta. So with 502 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: the wink in the nod of like, okay, well you're 503 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: gonna go have something done in New York. You're traveling 504 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: to New York for a purpose. Oh my gosh. And 505 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: just thinking this has been making me think too about 506 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,719 Speaker 1: especially the situations in Texas where so many clinics are 507 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: being shut down and the thousands of miles that women 508 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: have to drive in order to get to a clinic. Yeah, 509 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: with all of those tens and tens and tens of 510 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: thousands of women who are traveling to New York, not 511 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: everybody could do that. You know, you had to have 512 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: the time and the money and the resources to be 513 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: able to travel and have the procedure done well. Then, 514 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three, Old Scotus hands down its decision 515 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: in Roe v. Wade, legalizing abortion, and like I said, 516 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: though by this time abortion reform legislation had been introduced 517 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: in all but five states, and Ruth Peter Ginsburg actually 518 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,239 Speaker 1: was one of many who were concerned over how Row 519 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: went down because it was legalized on the basis of 520 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: the Fourteenth Amendment and right to privacy, and she and 521 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: others were concerned that by not going the state by 522 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: state route, it would, as it husband, be immediately challenged. Well, yeah, 523 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: it was, and it has been ever since, starting in 524 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six with the High Amendment, Representative Henry Hide 525 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 1: introduced his namesake Amendment, which prohibited federal medicaid funds for 526 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,879 Speaker 1: abortions for poor women. So right out of the gate, 527 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: we have poor women being shoved the side. Yet again, 528 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: here's the thing. In this whole whole history of abortion, 529 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: poor women, women of color are always the ones who 530 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: are hit the hardest. Yeah, I mean, we think of 531 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: the no federal funding for abortion argument as being a 532 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: modern thing, part of the modern planned parenthood debate that's 533 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: going on, that's raging and won't stop raging. But no, 534 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: I mean this was immediately after Row, that the no 535 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 1: we are going to let you use federal funds for 536 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: abortion thing that started out right away. It's also the 537 00:34:55,280 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: same year, interestingly enough, that abortion becomes part of platforms. 538 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: The Republicans adopt their anti choice platform and the Dems 539 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: aligned themselves with a pro choice platform. This is also 540 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: the year that Planned Parenthood sees its first arson and 541 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: a series of bombings follows in Night and next up 542 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,359 Speaker 1: on this depressing timeline because it took us so long 543 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: to get to nineteen seventy three, and now we're just 544 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:25,240 Speaker 1: tumbling right back down this hill. In Ballade versus Bared, 545 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: the ruling found that states could insist that a minor 546 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: obtained parental consent or persuade a judge that she was mature, 547 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: or that an abortion without parental notification was in her 548 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: best interests. So essentially we start to complicate the process 549 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: for obtaining an abortion on demand. And in nineteen eighty 550 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: that high Amendment rears its head again. In Harris v. McRae, 551 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: the ruling stated that states were not required to fund 552 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 1: abortions for which federal reimbursement was not available thanks to 553 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: that high Amendment. Further hides funding restrictions were found not 554 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: to violate the Fifth Amendment, so it's against this backdrop 555 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: In the eighties during and post Reagan administration that anti abortion, 556 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 1: birth control and sex ed rhetoric and policies really pick up, 557 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 1: as does violence against abortion clinics. Again, we see even 558 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: more Planned parenthood bombings, and speaking of planned parenthood, Planned 559 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: Parenthood v. Casey upholds a highly restrictive Pennsylvania law that 560 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: included mandatory waiting periods, parental consent, and bias information and further, 561 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: and this was really troubling also to notorious RBG. The 562 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,280 Speaker 1: court abandoned the legal principles of ROW and allowed laws 563 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: designed to limit access to abortion at any stage of pregnancy, 564 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: so long as the law does not place an undoe 565 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 1: burden on a woman's access to a worship. And the 566 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 1: definition of an undue burden, my friends, is massive. I 567 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: mean quite recently there. I forget the court case, but 568 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: these judges were going back and forth, I believe, over 569 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,479 Speaker 1: an issue in Texas and this whole undue burden thing, 570 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 1: and women were having to drive thousands of miles and 571 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: one of the judges was like, well, it's pretty flat 572 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: in Texas. They're not they're not walking, I mean unless 573 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 1: they are, but jeez, what really? No? And I I 574 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,400 Speaker 1: rolled my eyes so heavily, so many times reading that 575 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 1: whole undue burden bit, because what what do you what's 576 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,760 Speaker 1: supposed to be the undue burden? Like, I mean, simply 577 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: by closing clinics, you're placing an undue burden on these 578 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 1: women who have to travel. Well. Yeah, and with the 579 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: mandatory waiting period, I mean you have jobs on the line, 580 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: and I mean so much that you have to to 581 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: do in order to obtain one. And then the nineties 582 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: there's just a horrific stream of violence, Yeah, and pretty 583 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: rapid succession. We see uh R, David Gunn becoming the 584 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: first US abortion provider to be murdered. The following year, 585 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: another plan Parent had doctor his security escort and to 586 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: Planned Parent had employees were killed in separate shootings. And 587 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: in ninety eight we see a bombing that kills an 588 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: off duty police officer and a sniper killing a doctor. 589 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,919 Speaker 1: So the nineties were incredibly violent and scary for both 590 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: abortion providers and seekers. And more recently, in two thousand seven, 591 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 1: in Gonzalez v. Carhart, SCOTUS upholds the so called Partial 592 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: Birth Abortion Ban Act, which President George W. Bush had 593 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: signed into law in two thousand three, and here's the thing. 594 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: There is no medical procedure known as partial birth. Essentially, 595 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: it's more of a rhetorical manipulation. Yes, for a later 596 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,839 Speaker 1: term abortion, but the law has been interpreted as bar 597 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: doctors from performing an intact dilation and evacuation, which is 598 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:10,280 Speaker 1: a procedure where there's no instrumentation before the fetus is removed, 599 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: unless the fetus is no longer alive. So it's it's horrifying. 600 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 1: I mean, this is so much context for the debate 601 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: and the violence we're experiencing today around abortion and planned parenthead. 602 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: But it's horrifying that literally. I mean, since the Rov 603 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 1: Wade ruling, we've just been trying to climb back down 604 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: that mountain well, and we've forgotten where we came from 605 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: to begin with. I mean, was this history as surprising 606 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: to learn for you as it was for me, just 607 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:45,240 Speaker 1: in terms of all of the complexity and the midwiffery 608 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 1: and all of this bait and switch that happened. Oh yeah. Absolutely. 609 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: The fact that abortion seems to be yes to people 610 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: for whatever reason find abortion to be immoral and have 611 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: they yes or to be taboo yes, But the fact 612 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: that abortion seems to have been over our history a 613 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 1: tool for so many other arguments and so many other fights, 614 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: whether it is getting midwives competition out of the picture, 615 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: or whether it is having more control over women in 616 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,760 Speaker 1: their bodies. UM, I think that aspect of it is 617 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 1: is pretty pretty stunning and disgusting. And of course it's 618 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: not just in the United States, where the abortion issue 619 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: is far from settled. I mean we have listeners in 620 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: Ireland who know this well. There's still no legal access 621 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,880 Speaker 1: over there to abortion on demand, and that law was 622 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: recently upheld in Northern Ireland. Um. There are six nations 623 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: the Holy See, Malta, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Nicaragua and 624 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:52,799 Speaker 1: Chile that don't allow abortion under any circumstances. So regardless 625 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: of where our listeners stand politically and morally on this issue, 626 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,040 Speaker 1: because I know that we have listeners who are on 627 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: pro choice and who are anti choice and anti abortion. 628 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,399 Speaker 1: Although you can be pro choice and anti abortion, those 629 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: cert you know, not mutually exclusive. I hope that what 630 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: we've talked about has offered important historical context to just 631 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:25,480 Speaker 1: better understand what those politicized platforms really mean and what 632 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: they mean to individual women's lives. Because I think a 633 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 1: lot of us are so familiar with the imagery of 634 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: coat hangers, and we know that these back alley abortions happened, 635 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,879 Speaker 1: and that some terrible things went down, but I don't 636 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: think we really understand just how much is at stake 637 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:49,359 Speaker 1: with this entire reproductive rights issue. And so I do 638 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: hope to hear from listeners. I'm interested to know whether 639 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,399 Speaker 1: they were as surprised by some of this history and 640 00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 1: this context as we were. So much of it was unning, 641 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: so much of it wasn't even really that surprising when 642 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: you think about it, but just how gross it was 643 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: to me that women seem to be these pawns in 644 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:16,759 Speaker 1: this constant, ongoing argument. So, listeners, mom stuff at how 645 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,399 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com is our email address. You can 646 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 1: also tweet us at mom stuff podcast or message us 647 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,919 Speaker 1: on Facebook. And I also want to invite listeners who 648 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 1: have had abortions if you would like to share your 649 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 1: story with us, either openly or anonymously, we are safe 650 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 1: spaces to do that. Again. Our email addresses mom stuff 651 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,320 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com, at mom Stuff podcast 652 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,360 Speaker 1: on Twitter, and you can also message us on Facebook, 653 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 1: and we've got a couple of messages to share with 654 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:53,400 Speaker 1: you right now. I have a letter here from Katie 655 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: in response to our Perfectionism episode. She says that she 656 00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 1: put the episode on while she's getting ready for work 657 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 1: one morning. By the end, she found herself in tears. So, 658 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: Katie writes, I've never used the word perfectionists to describe myself. 659 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,399 Speaker 1: Prior to listening to Little Miss Perfect, I hadn't ever 660 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,799 Speaker 1: really even thought about the concept of perfectionism. But each 661 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 1: point you touched on during the show hit closer and 662 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 1: closer to home. Starting with the discussion of parental influence. 663 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,680 Speaker 1: My parents always held us to very high standards in 664 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,360 Speaker 1: every aspect of our lives, which I don't necessarily consider 665 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 1: to be a bad thing, as they only wanted the 666 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,480 Speaker 1: best for us. But you mentioned one key factor that 667 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 1: my parents unfortunately did not take into account balancing those 668 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 1: high expectations with loving support and enthusiasm. My siblings and 669 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: I were under immense pressure to achieve academically, succeed socially, 670 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: and maintain the appearance of a perfect family life while 671 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 1: receiving little to no reassurance that we were smart enough, 672 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,719 Speaker 1: good enough, pretty enough, or that we would be loved 673 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 1: no matter our failures or shortcomings. As crazy as it 674 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,719 Speaker 1: may sound, I didn't fully realize the impact that had 675 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 1: in my adult life until I heard the show. I'm 676 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: painfully aware of my habit of procrastination, but I had 677 00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 1: never really made the connection with the concept of perfectionism. 678 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 1: I realized I tend to put things off when I'm 679 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,239 Speaker 1: concerned the outcome may not be perfect, especially creative pursuits. 680 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,840 Speaker 1: I've always loved writing, and I've made several attempts at 681 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 1: blogging and submitting articles for publication, but I always end 682 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 1: up leaving each project i'm finished. I now know this 683 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:17,360 Speaker 1: is due to the inherent imperfections and potential for harsh criticism. 684 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 1: I love the idea you presented to soothe these anxieties, 685 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: like letting those worries play all the way out with 686 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,879 Speaker 1: the what if prompt. Usually, if I continue to think 687 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 1: about what might happen next if I do or don't 688 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,759 Speaker 1: do something, my worries shrink because I can hear how 689 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,080 Speaker 1: insignificant the worries actually are. This has helped me follow 690 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,400 Speaker 1: through with starting and maintaining a blog. By far, the 691 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,959 Speaker 1: biggest shot concerning perfectionism came in the research statistics about 692 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,480 Speaker 1: women who exhibit perfectionist tendencies being much more likely to cheat. 693 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: I married young and made every possible effort to construct 694 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,040 Speaker 1: the illusion of a perfect life and marriage. When my 695 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,440 Speaker 1: sex life with my husband became less than perfect, I 696 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,600 Speaker 1: looked outside of our marriage to find the idea of 697 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,280 Speaker 1: sexual perfection. Eventually, we decided to divorce, and I struggled 698 00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,960 Speaker 1: immensely with the fallout surrounding the implosion of my seemingly 699 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,319 Speaker 1: perfect life. I couldn't stand the idea of my imperfections 700 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,439 Speaker 1: being broadcast in such a public and painful way. After 701 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 1: seeing a therapist for well over a year now, I 702 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 1: had yet to make the connection between my being unfaithful 703 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,760 Speaker 1: and my penchant for perfection. But thanks to Kristen and Caroline, 704 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 1: I reached a deeper understanding of myself. I'm optimistic that 705 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 1: this new awareness of myself will help me to live 706 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 1: a more fulfilling and balanced life. So truly, thank you. 707 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,839 Speaker 1: I am now a devoted sminthy listener. I think what 708 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,319 Speaker 1: you two are doing is so important and meaningful. Keep 709 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,760 Speaker 1: up the good work well. Thank you so much, Katie, 710 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,320 Speaker 1: and I've got a let her here from Naomi. She writes, 711 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,799 Speaker 1: your recent episode about lube has brought to mind a 712 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,320 Speaker 1: difficult time in my life. I was about five weeks 713 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,000 Speaker 1: postpartum after a Sessian birth. My then husband was anxious 714 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,000 Speaker 1: to resume marital relations after our son was born. Unfortunately, 715 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,239 Speaker 1: though I was ready, it felt like daggers. Turns out 716 00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 1: that breastfeeding thanks to hormones can lead to a thinning 717 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,799 Speaker 1: of the vaginal wall, or so my research said, and 718 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,000 Speaker 1: it's quite common. The answer is lots and lots of lube. 719 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 1: I know that I and many other new moms I've 720 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 1: spoken with have a lot of fear that first time 721 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,839 Speaker 1: after a baby is born, in particular if they had 722 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,920 Speaker 1: a difficult or traumatic birth experience. Having it feel like 723 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,279 Speaker 1: daggers compounds that fear exponentially and can lead to more 724 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:18,080 Speaker 1: trauma psychologically. I heartily wish that someone would have told 725 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,000 Speaker 1: me to include lube that first time. I can't tell 726 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 1: you all the pain it would have saved me and 727 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 1: my husband if we'd only known and love is such 728 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,080 Speaker 1: an easy answer. I hope you ladies will pass this 729 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:35,360 Speaker 1: on well. Naomi, your wish is granted and listeners. For 730 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 1: all of your stories you can send them to us. 731 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,239 Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com is your 732 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,880 Speaker 1: email address. And for links all of our social media 733 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 1: as well as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts 734 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,400 Speaker 1: with our sources so you can read more of the 735 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,200 Speaker 1: delightful history of abortion. Head on over to stuff Mom 736 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:58,840 Speaker 1: Never Told You dot com for moral this and thousands 737 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:08,960 Speaker 1: of other topics. Because at houstuff works dot com.