1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Hey everybody. Oh, hey, hire you doing at there? A man? Well, 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: I'm doing good. We gotta we got a different week 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: here over at this house. Yeah, we got a new 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: house guest. Yes, stay with us for a little while. 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: We're fostering a dog. Yes, his name is Snickers. He's 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: a first gen Labradoodle and if any of y'all want 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: a dog, he is perfect. He is a real sweetie, 8 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: he really is. His name is not Snickers, though I 9 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:29,319 Speaker 1: mean it is, but like he does not care about 10 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: that any Yeah, he came with the name Snickers, but 11 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: we don't think it fits and he doesn't seem to 12 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: be in love with it. So he just said, I 13 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: think he's like a Charlie or a Larry or something. 14 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: I don't know why Larry the labordoodle. But well, whatever 15 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 1: his name is, he's a sweetheart. He's just under two, right, 16 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: and we just got him yesterday. Yeah, I got him home. 17 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: We were supposed to be holding him until he went 18 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: to his forever home, but then his forever home fell through, 19 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: so we are holding him. My aunt works with the 20 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: dog rescues, so she asked us to just keep him 21 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: for a little while while they figure out where he's 22 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: going because he's going to get snatched up quickly, maybe 23 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: by one of you all, if anybody's in Georgia or Hell, 24 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, maybe they'll arrange some transport 25 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: for him. He really is just a sweet angel. Yeah, 26 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: total snugglebugs. So he's very much worth it to whomever 27 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: would like a dog at this time. We don't, so 28 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: that's why we're not snatching him up. But actually it's 29 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: a good little segue to our podcast, which is also 30 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: about what happens when you're forever home falls through. That's right, 31 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: because I mean you guys know are probably guessed that 32 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: our podcast is dedicated to love and romance, right culbriti 33 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: gilst romance? Yes, but what happens as the muppet Christmas 34 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: Carol deleted song asks when love is gone? So today 35 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: we are tackling some historical divorce courts, but our daytime 36 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: television versions have nothing on these courts. We are taking 37 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: you all to medieval Germany, where husbands and wives had 38 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: to basically enter the Thunderdome to get a divorce, and 39 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: then to sixteen fifties France, where the courts proved impetancy. 40 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:16,399 Speaker 1: With a very stunning piece of legal pornography. Okay, I'm 41 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: ready for this, So let's divorce this introduction from the 42 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: show with the theme song and get going. I love it. 43 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: Let's go. Hey, their friends come listen. Well, Elia and 44 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: Diana got some stories to tell. There's no matchmaking a 45 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 1: romantic tips. It's just about ridiculous relationships, a lover. It 46 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: might be any type of person at all, and abstract 47 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: cons at a concrete wall. But if there's a story, 48 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: were the Second Clans Ridiculous Romans a production of iHeartRadio. 49 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: Before we dive into the two most wild divorce courts ever, 50 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: we should probably get a little background. Oh yeah, and 51 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: you know what that means. It's time to siddle up 52 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: to the bar, put our hand on a stranger's knee, 53 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: and have a quick fling with history. Oh I hate 54 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: you so collaborative divorce. Texas has a great history of 55 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: divorce around the world on their website. I love that 56 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: Texas is like, Hey, if anybody knows divorce, it's us. 57 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: I also love that they're like, you, guys should have 58 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: a collaborative divorce. Let's make this a nicer process everyone involved. Actually, 59 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: that's nice. We're doing that. You know A divorce is 60 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: just one more thing a couple does together. Hey, it's 61 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: in fact the last thing you may do together. No, necessarily, 62 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: I guess if you're co parent or something. Yeah, yeah, 63 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: it happens, but it is one of the major last 64 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: projects of a couple's life, right, Yeah. So they detail 65 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: a lot of different cultures and stuff. So like in 66 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: ancient China, for example, a couple could get a divorce 67 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: by mutual agreements. That's sort of nice, easy, Or the 68 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: husband could force his wife for cause such as quote 69 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: a lack of filial piety, failing to bear a son, adultery, gossiping, 70 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: contracting a disease, or committing theft. This is crazy, they 71 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: straight up. Or like break up with your wife if 72 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: she gets cancer, I mean, which is shocking and horrible. 73 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: But I'm more stuck on gossiping, Like if you could 74 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: divorce your wife for gossiping, there would be no marriages 75 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: in the United States. Wow, they just what do you 76 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: mean no gossiping, no gossiping about whom or what? Or 77 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: is it just like you just need it. It's like 78 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: glaucoma for medical marijuana, or it's just like just take 79 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: your bad back or something. There's just some excuse. Did 80 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: you hear out Cheryl? Well that's it, honey, I'm done 81 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: with you. Dare you talk about Cheryl behind her back? 82 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: What do you care about Cheryl? She's been a good 83 00:04:53,960 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: friend to you. I'm talking. It's also clearly ailing to 84 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: bear a son and write children. Period. Oh yeah. Also 85 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: filial piety in case you didn't know, which I didn't, 86 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: it's a Confucian concept about respecting one's elders and ancestors. 87 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: So I guess a guy could divorce his wife if 88 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: she was like too mean to her mother in law 89 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: or something like that, or she was like curse the ancestors. 90 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: Wow thing. So if your wife was gossiping about your relatives, oooh, 91 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:30,239 Speaker 1: you have two reasons to get rid of her. Collaborative divorce. 92 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: Texas goes on to say that quote the only formal 93 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: requirement for a consensual divorce was for the husband to 94 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: write a note to his wife. Oh like, what's the 95 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: note to say, hey, babe, this is your husband. It's 96 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: been nice, but let's not Okay, okay, great, bye love you, 97 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: bye see you. Never wait. So a husband writes a 98 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: note to his wife and they consider that consensual. I mean, 99 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: I guess if if she's not got an argument against 100 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: it or something, he wrote it and she read it, 101 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: that's it takes two to tango. You know, what good 102 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 1: is a written note if no one's around to read it? 103 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: Have you even written a note no one's ever read it? 104 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: Does it make a sound? Well? Anyway? After communism changed 105 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: China forever, it did become easier for women to sue 106 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: for divorce, but men usually get custody of the kids, 107 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: and it's very hard for a divorced woman to find 108 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: a job, so probably still doesn't doesn't get instigated by 109 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 1: the woman a lot. She has a lot to lose. 110 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: The Code of Hammurabi, which is from around seventeen sixty 111 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: four BC, this details divorced laws as well. Now women 112 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: were allowed to divorce their husbands for desertion or neglect 113 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: or incompatibility. I feel like it's a bit more broad 114 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: and well, and it's like, thank you, that's why I 115 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: don't want to be with Yeah, everything else might be 116 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: going great, we had seven sons together or whatever, but 117 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: I'm just like I can't stand him, I can't stand 118 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: her gossip. It's like we're literally the thing we're supposed 119 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: to be we're not, we're not. Yeah. Now, women had 120 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: to present evidence at a tribunal of abuse or neglect 121 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: and then they would say, quote, you are not congenial 122 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: with me, and I was like the official declaration, I 123 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: declare a divorce. Now, infidelity was not an acceptable reason 124 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: for a woman to divorce her husband, but if a 125 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: wife was proven to be cheating, she could be drowned 126 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: along with her lover. Again, something we've seen a lot of. Yeah, 127 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: they're like, men are supposed to go out and spread 128 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: their seed about for some reason, but you must be 129 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: chaste and pure. Well, Betty, you haven't so much fun 130 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: with Richard, are you? Well how about you and Richard 131 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: go have fun in the river together forever. But see, 132 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: that wouldn't be a lot of divorces for cheating because 133 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: she would just be dead. He wouldn't have to divorce her. 134 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she's just dead. Now, well, do they divorce 135 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: before they kill her? No? I don't think so. I 136 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: think they're just like, she's cheating and they drown him 137 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: and then he's like, now I'm a widow. So divorce 138 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: obviously was most often initiated by the husband because they 139 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: could divorce at will, but the wife had to do 140 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: all this work to prove like abuse or neglect or whatever. First. Now, 141 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: most men divorced because their wives were infertile. But if 142 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: that was the case, she was allowed to take her 143 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: dowry back, which of course is the money or the 144 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: property that the husband gets from the wife's family to 145 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: take her off their hands and start their new life together. 146 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: So a lot of men just wouldn't divorce anyway because 147 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: they didn't want to lose that sweet, sweet fancy cash, 148 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: that sweet sweet dowry. Those bedsheets are mine now. And 149 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: that's pretty similar to the laws in ancient Greece. Okay, 150 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: if a woman wanted to divorce in ancient Greece, she 151 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: or her father had to initiate a formal proceeding and 152 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: bring evidence to a court of adultery, abuse, neglect, or 153 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: abandonment some reason. Right right. Meanwhile, the man could be like, 154 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: I'm just sick of this bitch and simply send their 155 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: wife back to her father's house for any reason. The 156 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: deed was done, no formal and nothing required. Now, usually 157 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: men divorced in order to make a more advantageous marriage, 158 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: or because their wives could not have children. But just 159 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: like in the Hammurabi code, he would have to return 160 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: his wife's dowry or pay eighteen percent interest on whatever funds. 161 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: I guess that he had already spent. So if she 162 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: brought a lot of money to her marriage, he would 163 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: just stay with her for financial reasons. He'd like, I 164 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: can't find that change anymore in my couch cushions, so 165 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: I'm stuck with her. Okay. So it makes getting married, 166 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: especially if you want children, a real gamble, right, Like 167 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: as if you're not allowed to try and have children 168 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: before you get married, right, but if you get married 169 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 1: and y'all can't have children, you're either stuck there or 170 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: you gotta pay big bucks to get out of it. 171 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: Why don't they just let people figure it out before 172 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: they get married, say everyone, a lot of Greece, Great, 173 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I'm asking an old, old question 174 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: that should have been answered centuries ago. But right, well, 175 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: it might be choked up to what old what condoms 176 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: used to be? Like what I'm saying time on the right. 177 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 1: But I'm not even talking about non reproductive sex. I'm 178 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: talking about let people try and have children and then 179 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: get married once they're pregnant, or even just have children 180 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: before they get married, you know what, shock of shocks, 181 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: it doesn't change that much, right, well, And I think 182 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: that's kind of you know, a lot of this is 183 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: of course about people with money, right, so if you're poor, 184 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: If you were poor at any given time, I think 185 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: it was more common that, like you know, one or 186 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: the other spouse would just kind of leave, and then 187 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: after a few years everyone would just kind of okay 188 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: and get married again. You know what it because nobody 189 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: there's no property to care about, you know what I mean, 190 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: social whatever, just moves the next town until everybody forgot 191 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: you were married, right, Like I mean, you know, I 192 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: guess you could if there's some good records in your 193 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: particular part of history, someone could find evidence of bigamy. 194 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 1: But how often were people writing that down? And you know, 195 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: how to write a Bible or something, if they knew 196 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 1: how to write exactly, so probably you know, this is 197 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: again mostly I think about people with that had something 198 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: to bring to the table, and if there was like 199 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 1: two poor people, it was like whatever whatever y'all want 200 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,839 Speaker 1: to do, who cares? Or Because my history of ancient 201 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: Greece comes almost entirely from looney tunes, they're like carving 202 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:36,599 Speaker 1: into a stone tablet like Jerick Les married Meg on 203 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: Augustus fourth, a beautiful month, Yeah, lovely outdoor wedding. Yeah, 204 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: at the Parthenon where all things happened. I assume for 205 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of years, it was like the only 206 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: event space in all of Greece. But it is not 207 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: just about money, of course, because there's other things you 208 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: produce in a marriage, like children, and men almost always 209 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: kept full custody of their children too. Yeah. So if 210 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: you heard our Sir Richard and Lady Seymour Worsley episode, 211 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: we learned that children are considered their father's property. So 212 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: it's highly unusual for a wife to be able to 213 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: take her children with her in a divorce. And I 214 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: think that's likely another very big reason that a lot 215 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: of women didn't bother with it. I mean, aside from 216 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: the difficulty of getting one, she's having to think, Okay, 217 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: I'm also having a lead behind my darling Adolphus or whatever, 218 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: you know. I don't know, it feels to me and 219 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: I could be talking crazy here, but like, for example, 220 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: if you had to ascribe children as property to one 221 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: of the parents, it does seem like maybe the one 222 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: who sort of had them inside their body for nine 223 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: months or so would be one and the conclusion I'm drawing, 224 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: And don't let me get ahead of myself here. I 225 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: feel like a lot of societies have things set up 226 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: in such a way that skews. I don't know, this 227 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: is crazy. Excuse power. I don't know. I feel weird 228 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: even saying it, but maybe excuse power towards the men. Sorry, 229 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 1: I know, that's outrageous. That's the craziest thing I ever 230 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: heard said. I've never been proven totally baseless accusation against 231 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: literally almost every society on the planet. I mean, yeah, 232 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: all right, forget I said anything like that. Qute away 233 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: that pitchforks and torches um, you know, because the other 234 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: thing that's always true is that men are really good 235 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: at being criticized. So yeah, I know I won't hear 236 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: anything about that. So anyway, I mean, not from our audience. 237 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: Come out and let's be honest. Y'all are great, All right, Well, 238 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: let's talk real quick about one of the most famous 239 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: divorce cases. Of course. In fifteen twenty seven, King Henry 240 00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: the Eighth decided he wanted to get rid of his 241 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: wife Catherine and marry the younger and prettier Anne Bolin, 242 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: and don't worry, this is not our King Henry the 243 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: Eighth episode but a paragraph. And as Amanda Foreman points 244 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: out in Smithsonian Magazine, King Henry's break with the Catholic 245 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: Church to create his own church where he would be 246 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: allowed to remarry led to only one divorce in fifteen 247 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: fifty two. She writes, quote, the term was not even 248 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: used again until sixteen seventy. In fact, while Protestant Europe 249 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: was beginning to embrace the idea that there could be 250 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: justifiable reasons for ending a marriage, England actually took a 251 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: lurch backward. Not only did King Henry the Eighth's new 252 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: church come out against divorce under any circumstances, but it 253 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: also far outstripped Catholic Europe in the restrictions of granting unknownments. 254 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: How weird is that? Yeah, there had no idea that 255 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: was your whole point of coming into existence. Yeah, she's 256 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: writing like, oh, this is supposed to be the thing 257 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: that like opened the floodgates of divorce or whatever, and 258 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: then when you actually look at it's like, no, not really. 259 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: In fact, the Church of England hated divorce so much 260 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: that they instituted the rigamarole of requiring a special Act 261 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: of Parliament to get one, which meant that both houses 262 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: had to vote a law through, as we saw with 263 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: the Sir Richard and Lady Seymour episode. The very few people, 264 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: of course had the money or the moxie to be 265 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: put through such idea public spectacle. So divorce was still 266 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: very uncommon. Foreman says, quote, when a divorce law was 267 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: finally enacted in eighteen twenty four, the number of divorces 268 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: in English history stood at a mere three hundred and 269 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: twenty four. That's outrageous. It's like very few. Yeah, especially 270 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: we talk about him doing it in fifteen twenty seven 271 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: or whatever, King Henry in fifteen twenty seven, and all 272 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: we up to eighteen twenty four hundred crazy and two 273 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty seven of those were him. So well, 274 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: that's she was like even he only had the one, 275 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: otherwise he killed him or they died. Yeah, so his 276 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: death was easier than divorced to get other Just while 277 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: I'm making wild accusations this week, it also feels, I 278 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: don't know, maybe this belongs in speculation station. It feels 279 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: sometimes like both churches and uh and state governments are 280 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: maybe a little too focused on people's personal love lives. 281 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know again, wild baseless claim 282 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: from Eli well Amanda Foreman also points out how like 283 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: hard pressed the courts really were to figure out exactly 284 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: how badly a man had to behave before a woman 285 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: could get a divorce from him, because remember again if 286 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: you heard it, Lady Seymour had to destroy her own 287 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: reputation to prove that her husband was letting his friends 288 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: watch her undress and stuff before she could even get 289 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: a legal separation. They didn't even get a divorce, they 290 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: just got a legal separation. And Foreman points out that 291 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: financial Shenanigan's rape, brutality, and infidelity were not enough for 292 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 1: most women to win their lawsuits. Only a couple cases differ. 293 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: And it's worth noting why first she talks about Barbara 294 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: Villiers in seventeen oh seven. She was one of Charles 295 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: the Second's favorite mistresses, but ridiculous romantics may remember her 296 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: being name checked by John Wilmot in his poem signor 297 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:41,360 Speaker 1: Dildo as having quote swallowed more pricks than the ocean 298 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: has sad. Oh, that's her, that's her, her oil our girl. 299 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: When she was sixty four, she married a man ten 300 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: years younger than her, named Robert bow Fielding. Six months later, 301 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: she found out he was already married to a wealthy 302 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: widow named Anne Delo. And she only discovered that because 303 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 1: bou Fielding found out that Anne Delo was actually a 304 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: woman named Mary who was friends with Anne's hairdresser, and 305 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: not a wealthy widow at all. What she was completely 306 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: faking it. He had been tricked into marrying some other 307 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 1: bitch thinking she was a wealthy widow, and then he 308 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: tricked Barbara into thinking he was not married so that 309 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: they could also get married. Wow, isn't this crazy? Well, 310 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: bou was so pissed off when he found out he'd 311 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: been tricked that he beat Barbara so badly that she 312 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: actually jumped out of a window to get away from him. WHOA, 313 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: So he beat the woman who didn't like down him? Okay, 314 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 1: because you know when you consider a wife a man's property, 315 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: He says, I can do whatever I want to her. 316 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: Take it out on her. Foreman writes that Barbara was 317 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: able to successfully divorce him, but by the time it 318 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: was official, he quote had already run through a great 319 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: deal of her money and seduced her granddaughter, leaving her 320 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 1: pregnant with his son. Oh my god. And I don't 321 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: want to hear any gossiping about it either, Oh my god. 322 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: But note, of course that it is the bigamy, not 323 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: the brutal beating that got Barber her divorce. Yeah. Apparently 324 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: only one guy was brutal enough to his wife that 325 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: Parliament granted her a divorce based on violence done to her, 326 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: and that was the Earl of Castlehaven in sixteen thirty one. 327 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: This guy's crimes included, quote, hiring his male lovers as 328 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: his servants and giving them full control of the household, 329 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: marrying off his eldest daughter to one of his lover servants, 330 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: colluding in the seduction of his adolescent stepdaughter, and finally 331 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: holding down his wife while she was raped by one 332 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: of his servants. Oh god. Yeah, So this guy villain 333 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: of the week, absolutely maybe of the century. His defense 334 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: was that a wife's body belonged to her husband and 335 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: he could do whatever he wanted to it. Apparently the 336 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: prosecution wasn't really able to argue with the first part 337 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: that he owned his wife's body, but they disagreed with 338 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: his conclusion that he could do whatever he wanted with it, 339 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: but they still didn't grant a divorce. Instead, the Earl 340 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 1: was sentenced to death and beheaded. But again, death easier 341 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: than divorce. Yeah, yeah, I would rather just kill him 342 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: than you know, sign seven papers. In this case, I 343 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 1: think it was good because he should not get married again. No, 344 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: definitely not. Cannot trust this man. No better way to 345 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: stop a man from getting married a second time then 346 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: shop his head off. Well, I mean, if I can 347 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 1: jump into speculation station myself very quickly, maybe it was 348 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: like the gay stuff rather than the rape and incest 349 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: that kind of decided parliament. I mean, given the history 350 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: of how they act when a husband is cruel to 351 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: his wife versus how they act when a man is 352 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: learned to be gay, You're not, that's not out of 353 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: the question. If it was given this extra layer of 354 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: like debaucherous you know what I mean, like in human behavior, 355 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: because he had these male lovers and stuff and they 356 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: were that's not cool. I know. In that time, it 357 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: was a little bit different because it was sort of 358 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: I mean, John Wilmot, for example, was pretty bisexual and 359 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: that of his contemporaries were, so it might not have 360 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: been the same, but they might have been like, you 361 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: don't bring that to your wife though, that's crazy, you know, 362 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. So anyway, we can see that divorce 363 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: has been frowned on for literally millennia. I mean, even 364 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: when it was allowed in ancient cultures, the stigma associated 365 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: with getting a divorce mostly kept people from going for it. Yeah, 366 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: but when people are truly miserable together, they are ready 367 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: to do anything they need to do to get away 368 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: from each other. And in medieval Germany that was quite 369 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: an undertaking because their divorce court involved a literal fight 370 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: to the death. And we will tell you all about 371 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: it right after the Welcome back to the show, everybody. Now, 372 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: we have to thank our dear friend Sammy at Jukebox 373 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: Sammy sending this in as a suggestion. We just threw 374 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 1: it in with the impotency court and it made a 375 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: wonderful episode, So thanks Sammy. Good looking out. So medieval 376 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: Germany invented the marriage brawl, and back then trial by 377 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: combat wasn't really all that uncommon, but it was weird 378 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: to see a woman take to the ring herself. You know, 379 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: she usually had a champion designated for her, Oh right, yes, often, 380 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,719 Speaker 1: of course, it was her husband, sure, but when she 381 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: was ready to leave that husband, she had to be 382 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: her own champion. I guess you couldn't be like, stop 383 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: hitting yourself, honey, you have disgraced me, but you also 384 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: must defend us, So go punch herself in the face 385 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: now again. People still did not want to divorce to 386 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: happen all right. They still were like, not a good 387 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: thing for society or whatever. So usually the couple were 388 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: given a month or two to try to cool off 389 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: and settle their differences in a more peaceful way, okay, 390 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 1: and if they were able to kiss and make up, 391 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: the trial would be called off. Great for no foul. Yes, 392 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: sometimes all you need is a month or two to 393 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: get over yourself. True, you just get home. You're like, 394 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: I'm over it. Yeah, I guess I was being a jerk. 395 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: Or I guess they were being a jerk. But I 396 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: can handle it easier than signing seven papers. He finally 397 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 1: took the trash out, So I guess we can cancel 398 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: the fight to the death. Because if they didn't settle things, 399 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: you know, outside the courtroomor off the battlefield, the marital 400 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: duel would commence. And there were a lot of rules Firstly, 401 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: the wife had to put on this very form fitting outfit, 402 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 1: so instead of the usual heavy skirts she would wear, 403 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: she'd have to wear this thing that kind of looks 404 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 1: like a medieval version of a jumpsuit. Right, arms, legs, 405 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: I don't know it is. They're a little fanny flap 406 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: right in the back. Casey, I gotta run the rest 407 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: her real quick. In either case, it's not sexy, but 408 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: it gets all the skirt cloth out of your way, 409 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: and it leaves her limbs freed to maneuver. Now, she 410 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: was given a sack with a rock in it as 411 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 1: her weapon, like a like a sock full of quarters, 412 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: and she could move around the arena freely. But the 413 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: husband had one hand tied behind his back and he 414 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: had to stand in a hole up to his waist 415 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: at the very center of the arena. I imagine he's 416 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: just wearing his regular clothes, right, because there's already Yeah good, 417 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: we need to let her limbs free, come dressed, ready 418 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: to move, ready for movement. It's a theater joke there, 419 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: you get those notes before rehearsal. So okay, so you've 420 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: got the lady. She's hopping around the arena in her 421 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: little jumpsuit. She's got her sack with a rock in it. 422 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: And this guy's planted in the ground in a hole 423 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: like a house plant, and he has given a club 424 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: which is the same length as the lady's rock sack 425 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: as his weapon, and he's not allowed to get out 426 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: of the hole. And the idea being, of course, that 427 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 1: men already had the advantage in any fight because there 428 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: are men, they're big and strong, and they're always ready 429 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: to fight. Um, so this was supposed to kind of 430 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: equalize the footing a little bit. Now there's some other rules, 431 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: like the guy can't touch the sides of the hole 432 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: or he will lose one of his three available clubs, 433 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: and then he has to fight unarmed at that point, 434 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: I guess. So she pulls a club away, he can 435 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: get like if she like tosses it or something, you've 436 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: got he's got three lives next to him. You lose 437 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: a club or maybe he breaks one he like swings 438 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: too hard, hits the ground. Do you think he was 439 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: allowed to throw it at her? Big risk? Yeah, you 440 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,479 Speaker 1: want it? You only got three? You're ready to throw one? 441 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: What if you miss? That's so true? Probably wait for 442 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: it to come. Can she pick up the club. I 443 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 1: don't know she got a sack gan a club. I 444 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: don't think. I think she's only allowed her sack, all right, 445 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: rock sack, only her rock sack. So this is straight 446 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: up like whack a mole. He's like he's in a 447 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: hole and she's trying to beat him over the head. Yeah, 448 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: don't touch the sides too. It's like operations. Yeah. True, 449 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: we had a lot of games out of this now. 450 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: According to Professor Kenneth Hodges at the University of Oklahoma, 451 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: a legendary fencing instructor named Hans Talhofa wrote an illustrated 452 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: instruction manual in fourteen sixty seven called fact Book. Oh 453 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: I hope that's not a curse word. Factbook book, man, 454 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: I'm so sick effect book. Every time I log on, 455 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: I say factbook, damn Zuckerberg and facook. Well, this book 456 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: provided ideas and methods for how to fight these marital duels. Okay, 457 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,719 Speaker 1: so he's like a straight up an instruction manual. Okay, 458 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: he's got two fights illustrated, one where the man wins 459 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: and one where the woman wins. And, as the professor 460 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: points out, even though this practice is considered to have 461 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: been pretty rare after the year twelve hundred or so. 462 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: Hans presents this information very matter of factly. Okay, there's 463 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,479 Speaker 1: nothing titillating or weird about it. You know. He's not 464 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: doing a podcast where he was like, look at these 465 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: crazy for medieval times. He's like, this is real shit, 466 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: this is a real fight. Wow. And he clearly expects 467 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: women to be part of his audience of this book 468 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: because he's giving them some tips for winning as well. 469 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: But of course his play by play is pretty dry. Sure, 470 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: so we thought we would spice it up for you. 471 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: So place your bets and enter the Thunderdome because it's 472 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: time for fight. No, please, got a killer fight tonight 473 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 1: between Hatsl the Hammer and his wife, Bruta the Brutta. 474 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: These two are going head to head to see who 475 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 1: will win divorce to the Bruta isn't a strong position. 476 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: She's up to her husband's weight, and if looks good kills, 477 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: she would already be the winner. Bob, that's right, Frank, 478 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: don't count Hansel the Hammer out just yet. He's a 479 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: tall guy with long arms, so his reach with that 480 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: club is nothing. To see, Dad, These odds are only 481 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: getting short. Oh, we've got a great referee out there, 482 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: the expert himself, Hans. Oh, yeah, that's in the game. 483 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: Literally wrote the book on how to win this match 484 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: made in hell. Our combatants have limbered up, Hansel. The 485 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: Hammer's arm is securely tied. Uda the Bruda has her 486 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: sack of rocks and that's the bell. Oh, Bud starts strong. 487 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: She has struck up blow, swinging that sack like a 488 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: sack full of rocks. Hansel. The Hammer defected the blow 489 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: and caught it. Now he wishes to pull her to 490 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: him and subdue her. Watch out, Uda the Bruda. Oh no, 491 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: don't touch the sides there, Hans. Oh, he's got buzzed. 492 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: That's one club down. Now Uda has broken away from 493 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: him and she attempts to strangle him. She has laid 494 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: him on his back and wishes to strangle him and 495 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: drag him out of the hall. Have you ever seen 496 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: anything like this, Frank, Oh, might be over. The Hammer 497 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: has pulled Bruna to him. I've thrown her in the hole. 498 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: She is in the whole, Frank, han I sold the hammer. 499 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: Wh what a matchlop, What a incredible And then they 500 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: bring a belt out, you know, and there's a hole. 501 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: There's like a lady in a bikini. You get it. Yeah, 502 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: just fill the hole in right there. Just well pretty 503 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: much honestly, because in the match where the woman won, 504 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: Hans Tolhoffer describes the wife grabbing the husband quote by 505 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: the neck and buy his member and wishes to drag 506 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: him out of the hole. She got him by the dick. 507 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: It's crazy. The pictures are amazing. The other thing to 508 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: note here is that, like, we're not really clear how 509 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: a contestant wins a fight. Blood is clearly visible throughout 510 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: the fight illustrations, so it's not like it's a first 511 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: blood thing, and no one can say for certain if 512 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: it was a fight to the death, if they had 513 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: to get the other one pinned or for any reason, 514 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: or if somebody just had to like tap out and surrender. 515 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: But it turns out that it doesn't really matter because 516 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: whoever loses the divorce battle was put to death anyway. 517 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: If the husband, if Hanseled the hammer, lost, he would 518 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: be executed in the town's square. But if Uda the 519 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: brutal lost, she had to go in her own hole 520 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: on the ground to be buried alive. Oh my god, 521 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: which to me, also, the stakes have been up for 522 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: both of them. But I feel like Utah's going to 523 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: fight a little harder Uda is going to I mean, 524 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: what a terrifying thing. Yes, this is not just a 525 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: fight for your life, but a fight to not get 526 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: buried alive in a hole in the ground. Okay, Like 527 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: I think I would take that month or two real seriously, 528 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: I try to get some marriage counseling. Yeah, true. I 529 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: mean if it just ended up in the fight, I 530 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: think I would go, like, I don't know, the gamma 531 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: radiation might be unlocked in me to end up getting 532 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: buried alive, and I would just hulk out the desperation. Yeah, 533 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: it would lend itself. Would I would punch through the ground, 534 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: reach into that hole and just crush that guy. I 535 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: think the paste well, and you know they already are 536 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: mad at each other. Probably I almost think it's so 537 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: brutal and you shouldn't do this obviously, but it might 538 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: have been a useful, like counseling thing. We're like, just 539 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: beat each other in a fair fight, and now it's over. 540 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: You're good, right, Okay, everybody's fine. Okay, go home and 541 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: shut up those phone bats and the Simpsons. Yeah, well, 542 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: fortunately this cage match to divorce completely petered out in 543 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: the sixteenth century. People filing were like, you know what, 544 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: maybe this is not the best way to go about this. 545 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: But it was replaced, at least in France by something 546 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: even crazier, what the impotency course, boy, And we will 547 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: tell you all about that after day. Welcome back to 548 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: the show, everybody. So, since children were so important in marriages, 549 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: one of the only reasons a wife could bring a 550 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: divorce case against her husband was if he couldn't get 551 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: it up and make her pregnant. And this was true 552 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: pretty much everywhere, according to Tony Paritat on the smart 553 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: set dot com. Theologians agreed that the purpose of marriage 554 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: was procreation around the thirteen hundreds, so wives would accuse 555 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: their husbands of quote injurious non consummation, and then it 556 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: was up to the husband to prove that his penis 557 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: was in fact up to the task and improper working order, 558 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: which he had to do in front of an expert 559 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: team of priests, surgeons, and midwives. Of this expert team, like, 560 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: we've all studied the functionality of the penis in public 561 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: exhibition sites in our time, and I can tell you 562 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: I know a working one when I see it, that's right. 563 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: I can't describe it, but I know it when I 564 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: see it. No lay person could come in here and 565 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: say whether or not a penis is working. It took 566 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: years of study. Well. The French historian Pierre d'armond, in 567 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: his book Damning the Innocent, detailed the procedure where this 568 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: team would carefully inspect the member in question for elastic 569 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: tension and natural motion, and then demand proof of ejaculation. 570 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: But of course, as you might have guessed, having a 571 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: bunch of strangers poke and product, your dick was not 572 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: conducive to feeling hot and bothered. In fact, during one 573 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: husband's examination, he apparently told the panel of experts, quote, 574 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: just looking at you makes me a shrivel. Gee. I 575 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: don't know, Judge Hawthorne up there just ain't doing it 576 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,719 Speaker 1: for me. I don't know why, but this fifteen panel 577 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: of old doctors in midwife right, and the priest I've 578 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: known since I was a boy. But a man of 579 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: stout heart and stouter penis could get the case dismissed 580 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: right there if he could stand the exam. However, if 581 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 1: he understandably failed that exam, he could ask for a 582 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: trial by congress, which is kind of a hilarious play 583 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: on words. It required a congress of experts to convene 584 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: and watch the guy have marital congress with his wife 585 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: to prove that he could perform congress congress, get it 586 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: and get it, get it. A Tony parrotet points to 587 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: a number of accounts from the time that provide the details. 588 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: So the location had to be neutral territory agreed on 589 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: by both parties. I don't want you to go in 590 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: somewhere where you know you get aroused. That's right, you 591 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: can't have them. You know, you can't go to your 592 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: bedroom or the mirrors on the ceiling. Honey, why don't 593 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: we go through this experiment at the strip club? Up 594 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: that's my mistress's house. So then the couple was examined 595 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: to make sure they weren't doing anything to trick the experts. 596 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 1: Oh Tony writes that quote men were known to smuggle 597 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: tiny vials of blood onto the scene, which would fool 598 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: observers into thinking that the wife's maidenhead had been taken 599 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: without actual penetration. What um known to do it? That 600 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: means more than one guided. This was a common move. 601 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: It's like bringing a bag full of pee into your 602 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: drug test. Oh my god. They also apparently would bring 603 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: little like vials of just other liquid to make it 604 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: look like they had I guess had ejaculated as well. So, 605 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: I mean I learned from a friend who worked in 606 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: the porn industry that Pina Klota mix is great for that. 607 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: That's true. We used it, didn't we in one of 608 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: our Yes, we got that trick for a reason. Yeah. Yeah, 609 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: Well link to that one day when we know we 610 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: can't get fired. That's right, that when that day comes. 611 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: So finally, after they had been to their neutral territory 612 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: and they had been cavity searched for vials of liquid, 613 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: the unhappy couple were ordered to the bed and male 614 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: surgeons and priests would watch from behind a partition or 615 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: perhaps like just outside like a half cracked door. Meanwhile, 616 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,760 Speaker 1: the female midwives were hanging out by the pillows, fully 617 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,919 Speaker 1: able to lock eyes with either participants at any time. 618 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: I'm sexy yet, Oh man, I'm ready to go? Are 619 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: y'all getting too turned on by this description? What is happening? 620 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: How funny someone had to sit here and think this through, 621 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: Like I had to be like, okay, well, we can't 622 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: have the guys just in there. That's that's crazy. Yeah, 623 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,439 Speaker 1: now that's too far. We'll put them behind a piece 624 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: of lattice, a thin piece of gauze. Ought to do it. Okay, 625 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: you'll go ahead. I'm not even here. Okay, just accepted. 626 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:04,280 Speaker 1: You are here now. According to the Paris Review, divorce 627 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,439 Speaker 1: was illegal in France, but in fourteen twenty six there 628 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 1: is mention of a marriage being dissolved due to an 629 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: impotent They called him just another example of just like 630 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: defining someone by a single characteristic. He's like, I'm I'm 631 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: also really beautiful, I have great handwriting. Yes, I'm a 632 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: baritone of a baritone, I like to read, and a brother. 633 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: That's not clear how the trials and all the rules 634 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,800 Speaker 1: around them developed, but the Review writes quote, by the 635 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: sixteenth century they had reached a kind of carnivalesque zenith 636 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: that was, even in its attempts to be restorative, very humiliating. Seriously, 637 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: because not only were you having sex in front a 638 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: bunch of strangers and legal folks and religious people, everyone 639 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: dined out for weeks on the gossip and the speculations, 640 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: so your private sex life was the main topic of discussion. 641 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 1: At dinner tables and salons everywhere. You know, it was 642 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: like the big fight is coming, right, and they're like, 643 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 1: what do you who's your money on? Do you think 644 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 1: he's going to get a boner or not? Do you 645 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 1: think he's ever gotten one before? This is the kind 646 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: of thing that I think gets a little lost in history, 647 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 1: and it's just like, oh, sure people were talking shit, 648 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,800 Speaker 1: but like when you're actually in it, it's very painful 649 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: and embarrassing, and you're like, I can't, I don't I 650 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,720 Speaker 1: feel like I can't go out. Yes, everyone's just whispering 651 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: and laughing at me. You know, it makes it very 652 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: hard for to be alive for a while. Right on 653 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: top of all that, the whole procedure was medically dubious, 654 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 1: since like nobody really knew the difference between impotence where 655 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,360 Speaker 1: you cannot achieve an erection, and sterility where like, you know, 656 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: maybe you can have sex all day, but you can't 657 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 1: get someone pregnant, and to them that was one of 658 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,879 Speaker 1: the same thing. If you were one, you were the other, 659 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: that's right. Now. This obviously led to plenty of problems 660 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: because some men were deep impotent and their wives were 661 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: given a divorce but the men would go on have 662 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: kids with some other lady. Oh. So it turns out 663 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: they just couldn't get it up for her for her 664 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,399 Speaker 1: interesting awkward. I imagine probably the other way around too, 665 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: were like, you know, someone was like, oh, I guess 666 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: you're not you're not impotent, therefore you can have a baby. 667 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 1: But then they still never get that child right because 668 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: the wife could be impotent, could be you know, or 669 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,799 Speaker 1: again it's just incompatible and they cannot make it happen right. 670 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 1: And one of the last and most famous trials by 671 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: Congress was the case of the Marquis de Langi, and 672 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: in sixteen fifty three he married a thirteen or fourteen 673 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: year old girl named Marie. The marquis was twenty five 674 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: something else. I'm glad is over with. We don't do 675 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: that anymore. But apparently this started out as a pretty 676 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: happy union. It's like letters from Marie showing her impatience 677 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 1: when he was gone and how happy she'd be when 678 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: he came home, and so everything seems fine. She's fourteen, 679 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: she's probably doodling in her notebook missus marquis. Yeah, But 680 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: four years later, when she's grown up, she's eighteen in 681 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: sixteen fifty seven, she accused the Marquis of impotence, so 682 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: they both had to be examined, Marie for proof that 683 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: she was still a virgin and the Marquis for proof 684 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: that is dick worked. Okay, So that's the other thing 685 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: I want to say, is that if they had or 686 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: if they had sex at any time, like if on 687 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: their wedding night, he was not impotent, but every other 688 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: time afterward, do you know what I mean, She's still 689 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 1: not a virgin, right, So her case becomes a lot 690 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: harder to prove. So they had this exam and the 691 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: experts found that both of them were fully capable of 692 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: performing their conjugal duties. Marie was not a virgin, and 693 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: one of the examiners apparently said, quote, it cannot be 694 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: denied that Languie has done a fair amount of work 695 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:04,800 Speaker 1: with his ten fingers these past four years. But Marie 696 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 1: would not accept this verdict. She said, if she's no 697 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: longer a virgin, it's just because Langy insisted on making 698 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: quote fruitless advances at her, and he was like brutish 699 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: in bed and stuff. Oh but that made the Marquis 700 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: double down and insist on a trial by Congress to 701 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,839 Speaker 1: prove her wrong again. Now Paris Reu points out this 702 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,280 Speaker 1: was unnecessary. The court had already found in his favor 703 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 1: that everything was cool, but his ego simply would not 704 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: let him take the w So he's like, let me 705 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 1: do it in front of y'all, like a trained seal. 706 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna show you how good I have sex. Leading 707 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 1: up to the trial, Parisians of all classes placed bets, 708 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: and they drew caricatures. They swapped around smutty pamphlets. They 709 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 1: generally got a good buzz going on this scandal. Now, 710 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,759 Speaker 1: most of society was on the marquise side. He was 711 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 1: a pretty good looking, he was rich, he had a title, 712 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: and Marie was of course a bitter lying Herodin trying 713 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: to ruin her husband's reputation. And when they showed up 714 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:14,280 Speaker 1: at a luxurious bathhouse for these proceedings, Marie was booed 715 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 1: loudly by the crowd. But when the Marquis showed up 716 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,879 Speaker 1: apparently strutting, as one contemporary account says, quote for all 717 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 1: the world, as if he were already in one society, 718 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 1: lady named Madame Dolone declared, quote, I would so like 719 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: to be condemned to trial back on grass I wish 720 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: he was having sex with me in front of a 721 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:44,800 Speaker 1: whole crowd of people for legal reasons, Think again, Malone. 722 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,399 Speaker 1: How de Langy was feeling confident. He even called out 723 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,720 Speaker 1: to the panel of experts, quote, bring me two fresh 724 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 1: eggs that I may get her son at the first shot, 725 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: which I don't even know what that means. I know, like, 726 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,840 Speaker 1: do you think that you can he's going to fertilize 727 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,719 Speaker 1: a chicken egg by sleeping with your wife. I don't 728 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 1: know what he's got. He's like, I'm so fertile, right, No, 729 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: everybody's gonna end up pregnant by the end of this. 730 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,240 Speaker 1: He was just like, whatever, it's a witnesses that everybody 731 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: loves me. Colling is shot like a baseball player, right 732 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 1: corner pocket like a billiards ball. But you know, as 733 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,799 Speaker 1: you might have already guessed, it's not that easy to 734 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: have sex like a trained seal in front of fifteen 735 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: pairs of watchful and judgmental eyes. And according to the 736 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,399 Speaker 1: Paris Review, one trial in Raim had the husband call 737 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: out several times, come come now, but he never actually did, 738 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,040 Speaker 1: and then his wife laughed out loud and told the 739 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 1: experts quote, do not hurry so for I know him well. 740 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,919 Speaker 1: And afterwards, according to the report quote the experts said 741 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 1: after that never had they laughed as much nor slept 742 00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:02,400 Speaker 1: as little as on that night, which sucks for the guy. 743 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,799 Speaker 1: Everyone's just giggling it up, having a great time, and 744 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 1: he's like, God, damn it, and just like this hapless 745 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:15,799 Speaker 1: husband in him, Delangi was confident, but ultimately unsuccessful. The 746 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: doctors heard the Marquis grunt, curse and pray for two 747 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 1: hours before he finally gave up crying quote, I am ruined. 748 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 1: Which did they just have to sit around for hours? Yeah, 749 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 1: waiting for this guy to get a boner. They usually 750 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,439 Speaker 1: gave him an hour or two to have sex. Oh 751 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 1: my god, and they would go look and see if 752 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:41,440 Speaker 1: there was appropriate emissions or whatever. Okay, everyone, we're gonna 753 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: take a lunch break. Okay, be back here in twenty 754 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna see if anything is going on yet and 755 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,799 Speaker 1: again keeping him on. Just like the marital duel, these 756 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 1: are two people who don't like each other anywhere, so 757 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 1: they're trying to have sex not only in front of 758 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,879 Speaker 1: a bunch of people, but with someone they fucking hate. Yeah, 759 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,319 Speaker 1: so it's really no wonder. Like God, Marie, I'm just 760 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,959 Speaker 1: so sick of your ass. I can't can't get it up. Now, 761 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: the fallout of this failed coitus was immediate. All the 762 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,160 Speaker 1: women who had been drooling over him on his way 763 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 1: in were now like, oh, never mind actually, and don't 764 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,880 Speaker 1: want the fuck him after all, not that they think 765 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,360 Speaker 1: about it. And now there's no word on if anyone 766 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 1: retracted all the crap they talked about Marie, but it's doubtful, 767 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,360 Speaker 1: although she did quote publicly revel in her vindication. I 768 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,759 Speaker 1: would love to have seen Okay, yeah, probably this time 769 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 1: we saw some caricatures of him with like a real 770 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:39,839 Speaker 1: whim yeah, looking like a real piece of shit. Now 771 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:44,800 Speaker 1: the Marquis name became synonymous with flacidity, so people, oh sorry, 772 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:49,080 Speaker 1: I can't denight, honey, I got a real DELANGHI. I 773 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,840 Speaker 1: was so tired last night. I was a real de 774 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:57,239 Speaker 1: langy in bed. To make it up to her, Oh yes, 775 00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,480 Speaker 1: I tried to have some fun with Pierre last night, 776 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,480 Speaker 1: but he was dalgi on that long. So this guy 777 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 1: now is made a laughing stock and he wanted a retrial. 778 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,839 Speaker 1: But it was that I had to do that. Let 779 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 1: me putting myself through this. I guess Broule or nothing, 780 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,239 Speaker 1: get over it. I know, maybe he's just a really 781 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:19,239 Speaker 1: bad gambler. Yeah. Well, they denied it anyway, and he 782 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:24,560 Speaker 1: was required to return Maurice's dowry and forbidden to ever remarry. 783 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,319 Speaker 1: But he did anyway once he moved to the provinces, 784 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,720 Speaker 1: because again, like you know who's checking up on this stuff. 785 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,319 Speaker 1: That's fair. And he ended up having seven children. But 786 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,320 Speaker 1: according to the smart set, when he tried to boast 787 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: to a former enemy of his about this and be like, see, 788 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,799 Speaker 1: I told you my dick worked just perfectly, the man 789 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 1: replied to him, quote, but sir, nobody has ever had 790 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:52,680 Speaker 1: any doubts about your wife. Damn yeah, burnt. Of course, 791 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,160 Speaker 1: this wild trial had its detractors at the time. Not 792 00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 1: everybody was like, this is a great and normal thing 793 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 1: to be doing. Healthy and normal. Voltaire famously wrote, quote, 794 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,200 Speaker 1: these astonishing researches have been carried out by no one 795 00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:13,600 Speaker 1: anywhere in the world other than our theologians, and they have, 796 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 1: in their earnestness, laid bare that which should be cloaked 797 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,960 Speaker 1: in the secrecy of night. But it was Delanghi's trial 798 00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,759 Speaker 1: that pretty much changed the game. Jacob Gaines, who is 799 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,920 Speaker 1: a urology medical student who wrote a paper about these trials, 800 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,520 Speaker 1: told Salon magazine that the trial being so well known 801 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,320 Speaker 1: and then Delanghi going on to father a bunch of 802 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,320 Speaker 1: children with someone else, helped cast a lot of doubt 803 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:43,319 Speaker 1: on the credibility of the Okay, so any man who 804 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: was accused could be like, yeah, I'll go through the 805 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 1: whole thing if you want me to, but it doesn't 806 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:53,240 Speaker 1: necessarily prove anything. Yeah, and reasonable doubt. Shit. The trials 807 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,439 Speaker 1: did continue for years afterward, but they pretty much died 808 00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,800 Speaker 1: out in seventeen twelve. Man, So I love the Delanghi 809 00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:01,880 Speaker 1: may such a fool out of himself that it changed 810 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: the legal system forever. I know, right, you know he 811 00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:09,239 Speaker 1: thought too highly of his dick, right I suppose, or 812 00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,880 Speaker 1: his prowess in bed. But he really thought it didn't 813 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,759 Speaker 1: matter if he liked her or not, or I don't know. 814 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,000 Speaker 1: Maybe it was some long con and that was this 815 00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:21,040 Speaker 1: plan all along, to be associated with flacidity forever. No. No, 816 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,839 Speaker 1: he's like, I'm I'm gonna take that bullet to get 817 00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,279 Speaker 1: this law changed. I'm gonna show everyone how dumb this 818 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,600 Speaker 1: is maybe, I mean, he was egotistical enough. Maybe he 819 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,120 Speaker 1: was like, I'm handsome and charming enough that people will 820 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,440 Speaker 1: get over it, right, they did get all about it? 821 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,880 Speaker 1: Someone did or she never knew right, or she was like, well, 822 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:43,880 Speaker 1: let's see, maybe Marie was the problem. Well, look y'all, 823 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,280 Speaker 1: divorce obviously is never a picnic, even when it's mutual 824 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,120 Speaker 1: and friendly. At its worst, it could be painful and 825 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:55,879 Speaker 1: emotional and acrimonious, exhausting, you know, financially devastating. Obviously, there's 826 00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,759 Speaker 1: a lot of challenges that come from divorce, but at 827 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,719 Speaker 1: the very least we can be glad that it no 828 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:06,400 Speaker 1: longer includes trial by combat or trial by congress anymore, 829 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,640 Speaker 1: what I would call whack a mole or filler hole. No, 830 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,880 Speaker 1: of course you would. On that note, Now I'm filing 831 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:21,040 Speaker 1: for divorces, grounds for divorce, and now you can just 832 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,160 Speaker 1: do it whatever you whenever you want, for any Oh yeah, 833 00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,080 Speaker 1: so kind of now I don't need no proof and 834 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,560 Speaker 1: just go into the courtroom and be like, ah, my 835 00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:31,840 Speaker 1: deck doesn't work with her, and they're like, sir, you 836 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:33,839 Speaker 1: don't have to do that. We don't need to know 837 00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:39,839 Speaker 1: that information that can be between you and God well, 838 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,520 Speaker 1: don't leave your thoughts about this episode between you and God, 839 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,680 Speaker 1: because we want to hear. Oh, we sure do, We 840 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,680 Speaker 1: sure do. Please do reach out to us, especially if 841 00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:49,839 Speaker 1: you have suggestions, or if you want to talk about 842 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:54,040 Speaker 1: this episode, or if you have you know, corrections to whatever. Yeah, 843 00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,400 Speaker 1: we love to hear from you. Our email address is 844 00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,399 Speaker 1: predict Romance at gmail dot com. Maybe you have your 845 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,680 Speaker 1: own cre easy divorce story that you want to share 846 00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,600 Speaker 1: with us, to share with the world, reach out on 847 00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,560 Speaker 1: social media. We're on Twitter and Instagram. I'm at O Grade, 848 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,680 Speaker 1: It's Eli, I'm at Dynamite Boom, and the show is 849 00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,960 Speaker 1: at ridic Romance and run TikTok at Ridiculous Romance as well. 850 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,439 Speaker 1: That's right, So follow along, stay tuned, and we'll catch 851 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,480 Speaker 1: all the next one. I love you so long. Friends, 852 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:26,240 Speaker 1: It's time to go. Thanks for listening to our show. 853 00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,000 Speaker 1: Tell your friend's Namebor's uncle, sendance to listen to a 854 00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:31,719 Speaker 1: show Ridiculous Romance.