1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Worst Year Ever, A production of I Heart 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: Radio Together Everything, so don't don't. Oh boy, what a 3 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: great year it is. It's the best year that was 4 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: ever a terrible year. Let's add more months, show more 5 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: months for the year, four months for the year. I'm 6 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: almost over. We're still remember um. Guys, guys, Hello, welcome 7 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: back to worst year ever. As we just said, and 8 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: that cute, nice, smart, brilliant voice that you just heard 9 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: was our guest dark Come on, Hallia, Jane, Hi, Hi, Hello, 10 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: gorgeous is how are you doing today? Talia? How are 11 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: your injuries? They are bruising, but the swelling has gone down. 12 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: Call that progress. That progress, listeners. If you're not aware, 13 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: there was a rally in d c Um that was 14 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: supportive of both the president and the concept of the 15 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: coronavirus spreading unchecked. Um. It was very, very big on 16 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 1: both of those things. A lot of proud boys showed up, 17 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: a lot of members of white supremacist militias like American 18 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: Guard showed up, UM and they beat the ship out 19 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: of a bunch of people in the streets. And one 20 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: of the people that they assaulted was our friend and uh, 21 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: courageous freelance reporter Talia Jane. Yeah, and I'm good. I 22 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: was actually I originally was thinking that he must have 23 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: not hit me very hard because I didn't go down. 24 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: But then I was actually like looking at the injuries 25 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: and like, I have some stuff on my nose and 26 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: like beside my nose and all this stuff was really 27 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: fucked up for a couple of days, and I realized 28 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: he really did hit me hard. I just know how 29 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: to take a punch apparently. Well, also, there's so much 30 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: going on in that moment, I would imagine, and the 31 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: shock of it too. I can guarantee your adrenaline was 32 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: flowing kind of crazy there. I was honestly chilling. Like 33 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: if you if you look at the footage of me, 34 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: I'm literally I'm surrounded by people brawling and I'm just 35 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: kind of like dupeid like just standing and filming everything 36 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: a chilling and then this guy comes out of nowhere 37 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: and nails me like right below the jaw, right below 38 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: my ear, which is like one of the three like 39 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: Chao spots. And you see me like go down and 40 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: then I come back up, and I'm immediately just like yo, girl, 41 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: good job taking that. But also, as you're describing this 42 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: and we're laughing. That just sickened me to hear that 43 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: happened to you, Like, yeah, honestly, I didn't think that 44 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: he had targeted me until I saw footage and was like, oh, 45 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: that's cool. Do you know what they struck you with? 46 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: Because it, I mean, he had to have at least head. 47 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if there was something in his hands. 48 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: The video is unclear, but he had to have at 49 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: least had like a ring or something on to slash 50 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: your face like that. Yeah, there had to have been 51 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: something either in his hands or on his fingers, because 52 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: there's there's a still that I saw with his hand 53 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: open as he's like swatting my phone down. So I 54 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: don't know that he had anything in his hand, but 55 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: I couldn't clearly see if he had anything on his fingers. 56 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, I had, Like I have, um some puncture 57 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: wounds and scratches and gashes like behind my ear and 58 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: on my neck, as well as the gash on my ear, 59 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:51,119 Speaker 1: which contributed to the most amount of, uh, the injury. 60 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: I'm trying not to be too graphics. I don't want 61 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: to squee out like anybody. Yeah, no, it's fine, but yeah, 62 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: it seems like he either had something on his fingers 63 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: or in his hand, no idea. Yeah, and I feel 64 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: pretty confident saying it seems like that dude was likely 65 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: proud boy, shall we say? Yeah, so I have I 66 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: have a pretty m I have a pretty solid idea 67 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: on him. And the person that I did is a 68 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: proud boy and he's a member of the American Guard. 69 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: He's a president of the Ohio chapter of the American Good. Oh, 70 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: you got hit by a real solid one, lucky, and 71 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: I still didn't fall. So yeah, I think you think 72 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: you're so fucking hot. Fascists can't even knock down tally. 73 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: I mean, they're absolutely I'm five by the way, I'm 74 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: five ft tall. This guy had clear space to just 75 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: wail on me. And I didn't go down, like my 76 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: feet stayed where they were, yeh. And my phone didn't 77 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: even get sucked up. They got thrown out of my 78 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: hand and it was fine. Yeah, that's why they tend 79 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: to go when they commit assault. Most of them tend 80 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: to go like five or so to one. Um, because 81 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: they're all they're all actually a bunch of big babies. 82 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: That's uh, that's a tactic that I noticed reviewing the footage, 83 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: it was one person would start wailing on someone and 84 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: then multiple people would come and surround them, and so 85 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: when he punched me, um, you see people start to 86 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 1: surround me and that's when I started getting like jostled 87 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 1: around and they started like pulling and pushing me, and 88 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: I was just like, yo, I'm pressed. Like I wasn't 89 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: fighting back. I was just like, what is happening? And 90 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: then that's when place came through and they sort of 91 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: backed off. Um. But it was definitely it was bizarre 92 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,119 Speaker 1: because in the moment, I thought I had just gotten 93 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,559 Speaker 1: elbowed in the head really hard as people were moving 94 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: past me, and that's why I was getting pushed around 95 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: and shoved. And then looking at the footage, it's clear 96 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: that he went after or me and then they followed 97 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: suit and then they saw I was pressed and went 98 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: oh shit. Um. So uh, If anyone's interested in learning 99 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: how the Proud Boys fight, I guess that's a pretty 100 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: basic summary. They also, once they got someone down, they 101 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: might have kicked them a little bit, but for the 102 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: most part they would kind of back off and move 103 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: on to someone else, like their their goal was evidently 104 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: to um get people down. And then once they were down, 105 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: they move on. See that's a bit different, you know. 106 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: And when we had our the big street fight in 107 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: Portland where I got injured, the ratio was the same 108 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: where they would only really charge out if they felt 109 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: like they could get four or five people you know 110 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: on each person. Um, But they did a lot of 111 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: beating people on the ground. Um that was like the 112 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,119 Speaker 1: the overwhelming tactic is once they got someone on the ground, 113 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: try to injure them as badly as they could before 114 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: being forced back. But like, the thing that is the same, 115 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: I guess is that in both cases they they really 116 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: didn't want to get into fair fights. They did not 117 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: want to um do a one on one sort of 118 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: thing like they and as soon as the numbers, as 119 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: soon as like the people opposing them out numbered them, um, 120 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: they all huddled together in a shield line and they 121 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: broke and ran. As soon as you know, things got 122 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: scary for them because again they're not like the thing 123 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: that's scary about them is when they're unopposed, Like that's 124 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: what actually makes them dangerous. That's why it was so 125 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: frustrating to see, you know, George de Kay and other 126 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: liberals be like, don't come out to counter protest, you know, 127 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: the MAGA march, because that's the thing that actually makes 128 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: them less dangerous is having anything close to number of 129 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: parody or being outnumbered. Then they backed the hell off 130 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: because they don't want to actually have a real fight. Yeah, 131 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: that was that was what was probably the most discouraging 132 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: is when I showed up in the afternoon, Um, there 133 00:07:54,920 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: were obviously thousands of maga's on one side and maybe 134 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: three hundred anti fascists on the other. And then when 135 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: they marched over to BLM Plaza. By the time, uh, 136 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: like the police had split the groups up, and like 137 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: the anti fascist groups, they had kettled and split people up, 138 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: they had done a couple of rests, they pepper sprayed 139 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: the crowd, So the numbers had then significantly. By the 140 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: time the Proud Boys turned that corner and saw the 141 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: anti fascists, there were only ever eight shields. Um there 142 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: was by that time. I don't believe there was any 143 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 1: bike support. Um. There were you know, medics and press 144 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: and everything, but I would say that probably we were outnumbered. 145 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: It was it had to have been something like two 146 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: Proud Boys too, like eight anti fascists. And when I 147 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: was and and to your point about like go and 148 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: counter protest. When I made the decision to go, I 149 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: connected with um, some comrades who are who were interested, 150 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: and we originally we're going to have something like two 151 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: carful two cars full of people, and um by the 152 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: time it all shook out and people get really scared 153 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: about you know, the potential for extreme violence. Uh, it 154 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: was me and two other people. Wow. Um And apparently 155 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: that had been the case Uh in d C. Like 156 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: the people on the ground there were saying we need 157 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: people to come through, we need people from other cities 158 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: to show up and support and stand with us, and 159 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: people didn't. And it's the lesson is obviously, like when 160 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: they say we need everybody out, that is not the 161 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: time to be like, oh, don't fight them, just ignore them. 162 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: They'll go away, Like it's some kid at school who's 163 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: bullying you or whatever. Like these are ashists who are 164 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 1: emboldened by a lack of counter protesting, who when there's 165 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: no one else on the ground, they're like, hell, yeah, 166 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: we have the right to do whatever we want because 167 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: this is our space. Yeah. There are a lot of 168 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: valid critiques of of you know, quote unquote Antifa, of 169 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: anti fascists of individual things that have been done by 170 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: different anti fascists, collectives and individuals over the couple of years. 171 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: But the thing that there absolutely objectively right about is 172 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: that if you don't confront these people physically, they they 173 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: just hurt folks because that's what they're there to do. Like, 174 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: if you actually want there to be less violence, overwhelmed 175 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: them in the streets and they will stop coming out 176 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: and people will stop getting hurt. Even if it was 177 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: just a bunch of liberals with like Biden Harris flags 178 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: and hats and stuff, if they had shown up, and 179 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: if they had held the space at BLM Plaza when 180 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: the Proud Boys and the Magas rolled through in their 181 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 1: drunken like rampage um, they it would not have gotten 182 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: to the point that it was at because they would 183 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: have seen a huge amount of people, and instead they 184 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: saw a very small smattering of people and they were like, 185 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: all right, let's fucking go. So I'm curious you said that. 186 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: You know, the police started kettling the anti fascists, and 187 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 1: you know, all the stuff led to dwindling numbers, but 188 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: they didn't need tear guessing they weren't doing anything or 189 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: the other side. No. Um. There were multiple instances in 190 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: the afternoon when anti fascists were on one side of 191 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: the barricade. Um, they had a police line of Capitol 192 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: Hill police and then they had a second police line 193 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: of Metropolitan police with riot shields facing the anti fascists 194 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: and not the fifty thousand maga's leaning on the barricade 195 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: and screaming over it. And then um, later that night, 196 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: when the Proud Boys rolled up on BLM Plaza UM, 197 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: there were no cops except for maybe two white shirts 198 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: just kind of standing by. UM. And it wasn't until 199 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: the brawl had been going for a couple of minutes 200 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: that bike police rolled through and established a barricade. How 201 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,119 Speaker 1: this happens, Yeah, at which point when they established a barricade, 202 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: they used the bike police to to push the Proud 203 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 1: Boys back, and then they had riot cops come and 204 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 1: form a line on the other side, facing the smattering 205 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: of anti fascists who were on the other side, and 206 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: like I saw them like expanding, expanding their batons, like 207 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: ready to crack some heads. Um. But it was it 208 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: was very weird, like watching how the police moved that night. 209 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: It was they were splitting up anti fascists and for 210 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: being in the street allegedly for potentially slashing tires on 211 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: a car that was parked on the street. And that's 212 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: when they started pepper spraying and kettling. Um. They kept 213 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: on barricading people on different sides of the streets from 214 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: like just the anti fascists, UM. And then once the 215 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: anti fascists met with the Proud Boys, they were nowhere 216 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: to be found, but they had followed earlier in the night. 217 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: They were following the anti fascists on bikes. They had 218 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,479 Speaker 1: flash bangs, which I also fully just thought was fireworks, 219 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: Like nobody nobody even noticed. They were just like, oh, 220 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: it must be fireworks. Yeah, they're only startling when they're 221 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: new to you, and they're not new to anybody at 222 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: this point. So so it was like they had eyes 223 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,719 Speaker 1: on the group the whole night. They were they were 224 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: steadily breaking up the group and sinning the numbers they 225 00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: had pepper sprayed into the crowd. They arrested people, um, 226 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: and so the anti fascist numbers had dwindled significantly. And 227 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: then when the Proud Boys rolled through, the anti fascists 228 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: weren't moving. We were everyone was positioned and just kind 229 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: of like hanging out at BLM plaza. Um, So it's 230 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: bizarre that the cops weren't there and that Um basically 231 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: it's it's it's almost like they just let this happen, um, 232 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: knowing that on one side was a horde of drunken 233 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: um like fr yeah, with like glass bottles which they 234 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: like through um uh and you know, potentially apparently armed 235 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: and just looking to fight and brawl. Um. It's just 236 00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: it if ever, you were of the mindset that the 237 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: pests are neutral and that they you know, we'll will 238 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: defend people against things on either side or whatever, you know, 239 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: being in a situation like that where there are no 240 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: cops around and they've spent the previous like the earlier 241 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: parts of the day just assaulting and arresting one side 242 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: while leaving the other side to do whatever the funk 243 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: they wanted like that, that's something like that makes it 244 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: so clear where the biases and how and how evident 245 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: it is that, Uh, the alt right has leaned really 246 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: hard into back the blue um almost on the expectation 247 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: that if they applaud and thank cops, then those cops 248 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: won't do anything when they brutalize people who are counter 249 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: protesting their bigotry. Yeah, yeah, it is what it is. 250 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: I wrote an article for Bellancat three years ago, like 251 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: the first thing I ever wrote for them was was 252 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: was tracing the efforts of these groups to make inroads 253 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: with the police and how it had functioned and how 254 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: based on some like foyed information, we know that police 255 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: talk about these folks and they do see them as 256 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: as friendlies. In fact, they were called in Kenosha armed friendlies, 257 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: like the armed ashman who showed up um or sorry, 258 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: no that was that was Albuquerque, Albuquerque when that guy 259 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: got shot um by a right wing demonstrator and um, 260 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: you know that There's been similar things said by the 261 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: police of them in Portland. I think the phrasing was 262 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: that they were more mainstream than the anti fascist demonstrators 263 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: and like it's this thing. One of the things that's 264 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: really interesting about the d c rally is that some 265 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: Proud Boys did get arrested. There were twenty one I 266 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: think arrests, five for gun possession, and I think four 267 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: of those were right wing demonstrators. There was at least 268 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: one counter protester who was arrested with an illegal gun, 269 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: but a number of folks from Georgia who were arrested 270 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: with like both guns on their person and in the 271 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: hotel room anyway, And there's a whole thread that I've 272 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: got archived um on jeez, I think it was four 273 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: chan um. That's just like them being or no start, 274 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 1: it was the donald of them just enraged that cops 275 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: had arrested some of them and like, yeah, So it's 276 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: funny because they have spent so much time like going 277 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 1: after like police support and signaling police support and backing 278 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: the Blue um, and it has gained them obvious sympathy 279 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: and obvious advantage. But whenever they get arrested for just 280 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: blatantly like breaking the law in such a way that 281 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: the cops have to arrest them even though they clearly 282 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: don't want to. Like what happened with that guy Alan 283 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:45,719 Speaker 1: Swinney who waved a gun at a crowd up here 284 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: in Portland, like what happened with some of the folks 285 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: illegally carrying guns in d C. Whatever that happens, they 286 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: still get so angry because they just they don't think 287 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: that they should be accountable like that. That's why they 288 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: back the Blue is because they they fundamentally think that 289 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: the law is a weapon they get to use on 290 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: other people. Um, and usually they're right in that, but 291 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: they get very angry whenever it gets enforced against them. Yeah, 292 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: I think, Um, it's it's useful when we look at 293 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: back the blue that we recognize that it's not them 294 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: supporting cops, it's them currying favor. They don't care about cops. 295 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: They care about getting to do whatever they want and 296 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: hoping that because they baked a cop a cake that 297 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: they're not going to get held accountable for it. You know, 298 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. So that's fun, everything's great. Um, you 299 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: want to talk with us a little bit about how 300 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: that rally started, like before before the fighting and stuff 301 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: got started. I'm interesting that in kind of what you 302 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: saw from the pro Trump scheff, Like, first off, I'm wondering, 303 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: like what what you'd characterize the sort of the ratio 304 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: of you know, the extreme street brawlers set to the 305 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: folks who were just kind of like just trumpy as fuck, 306 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: if that makes sense. So I was at the Supreme 307 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: Court um where anti fascists had shown up to stage 308 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 1: to block to block up and kind of meet together 309 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: while the maga's were over at Freedom Plaza um and 310 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: so we were there and it was not that many 311 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 1: people at first, and then um, a couple of maga's 312 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: rolled through, and then it was like, oh, like apparently 313 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: they were coming to the Supreme Court to hear people 314 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: speak at that location. Um. And that's when police started 315 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: bringing out a barricade to block off the street. But 316 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: they didn't have enough of the metal barricades too fully 317 00:19:55,400 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: do it, um, which seems like a major oversight. Police 318 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: have at least more experience dealing with this kind of 319 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: ship than any other police department in the country, Like 320 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: they're supposed to be the best protests. So they just 321 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: like didn't have enough barricades and they had to do 322 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: a physical wall of just playing like regular foot cops. Um. 323 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: And then that's when more maggas came through, and I 324 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: have I have footage of just seeing them turning the 325 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: corners just like this endless stream, just packing in further 326 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: and further um, into this half a block or block space. UM. 327 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 1: And you can't I couldn't really tell the difference between 328 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: just regular trumpsters and like virulent racists because every so 329 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: thin you know, talking, Yeah, it's all they were. They 330 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: were screaming over the barricade. Um, just like hurling insults 331 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: of all sorts of crazy ship they were. The worst 332 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: part was probably when these like thousands of maga's who 333 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: have come from all over the country to attend this 334 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: thing start chanting at the three hundred local anti fascists 335 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: on a Saturday afternoon get a job. It's like, well, 336 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: why are you here? I feel like you guys are 337 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: the ones that should probably be getting a job because 338 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: you know, and then um, also it's Saturday. Also it's 339 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: a fucking Saturday. Um, And and it was. It was 340 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people hurling insults about George Sorrows. Cowboys 341 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: showed up. They were the ones chanting fucking Antifa. They love, 342 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: They love yelling that. That's their favorite thing in the world. 343 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: They think it's It really makes people angry. I just 344 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: can't get over just in apparently the name anti fascists 345 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: set so many people off. The anti fascist you hate 346 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: the anti fascist, like I can't. I can't get over that, 347 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: I know. Anyway, that's the trucks of all of this, 348 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: isn't it. But um, it's all branding, is what it is. 349 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: It's all advertising and marketing. Can you tell how like 350 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: drained I am dealing with this. I'm like, you're wonderful, 351 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: but yes, of course, this is like a mentally, physically, 352 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: emotionally exhausting experience that you just went through and you're 353 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: recapping for us. Yeah. Um yeah, So the like I 354 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: couldn't tell I couldn't tell the hardline like virulent racist, bigoted, 355 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: violent people apart from the regular magaz because they were 356 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: all angry and yelling the same things. Um. They were 357 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: all cheering when speakers would say the same hateful rhetoric, um, 358 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: and they were all it was just like this total 359 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: group think. I think the thing that was most alarming 360 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: was the fact that there were so many people who 361 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: are so thoroughly convinced that Trump won the election. Yeah, Like, 362 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: that's what's baffling, is that so many people showed up. 363 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: It's what's terrifying. I mean those people all also like, 364 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,439 Speaker 1: there's just that. I'm sure everybody caught the story of 365 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: the e R nurse from South Dakota who's been talking 366 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: about dealing with dying people who are saying that the 367 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen is a hoax as it is killing them. 368 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: Um like yeah, there's no such thing as reality anymore. Um, 369 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: or or truth. There's just there's just arguments which have 370 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 1: to end in violence because there is no way to 371 00:23:55,560 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: actually arrive at a consensus of reality. M hmm, yeah, yeah, 372 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: I was. I was talking to a mega who thought 373 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 1: I was a friendly outside of the hotel the next day. 374 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: Because I I can pass as white trash. Um, because 375 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: I am. I can call myself white trash. I'm with 376 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: you because I am. Baby. There's like a certain smell 377 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: that you get after you've lived in a trailer. It 378 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: just it just stays with you. You get like a 379 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: look in your eyes of just remembering field mice coming 380 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: up through your floor all winter, stepping into the shower 381 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: and feeling the floor buckle under you. Yeah, the best. Um. 382 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm saying white trash as like a derogatory 383 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: term on myself. Um, But she was. She was telling 384 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: me that quote the true people. We're saying that the 385 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: number of people who showed up for that rally was 386 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: one point five million from covering from covering enough actions. 387 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: I'm pretty good at counting crowd sizes, and I would 388 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: estimate maybe thirty to fifty thousand everywhere, but in that 389 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: one space, Um, I would I couldn't guess more than 390 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: ten k at Scots, but so you know, she was 391 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: insisting this. She also said that Florida isn't humid because 392 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: the ocean is there, and the ocean has salt, and 393 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: salt drives things out, So she's a flat earth person too. 394 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: He didn't get us the moisture, so that was definitely 395 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: a conversation I had. Yeah. Yeah, so I don't know 396 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: if you've ever been to Florida, but it is uh, 397 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: it's you could slice the air with a knife. No, 398 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: it's horrible. Don't ever go to Florida. Wallet off is 399 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: my atto? Build that wall only around Florida. Um yeah, 400 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: I mean, like, this is the type of mentality that 401 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: we're looking at, is people who have been fed so 402 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: much bullshit that they that their baseline ability to process 403 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: information has been so thoroughly distorted that it is no 404 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: longer about critical thinking. It is about um like that 405 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: the function has changed to rationalizing opinions and feelings however necessary. 406 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: Like that's where we're at, and that's why we're in 407 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: like a post truth era. Well where I'm I clearly 408 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,239 Speaker 1: said on video and in my own tweets about like 409 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: me getting attacked that I was hit and that I 410 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: was bashed, and I originally said I don't think I 411 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: was targeted, and then I looked at the footage and 412 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I was targeted. And I got 413 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: flooded with with people calling me a liar and a 414 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: fake news and all this stuff, and I'm like, I'm 415 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 1: on record never saying that I was stabbed. Um, yeah, 416 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: and I I said stabbed at some point because it 417 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: looked like you've gotten slashed in the ear with something 418 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: and understandable and people were stabbed. Somebody struck you in 419 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: the face and slashed your face open, like I'm sorry 420 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: that yeah, yeah, I actively beating all over my respirator 421 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: and my hand and my tech vest like you would 422 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 1: assume given that information in the moment, there's a possibility 423 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: that a stab occurred, because a sharp object is usually 424 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: the thing that causes blood to come out of a 425 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 1: person's body, and it's you know, if they quibble over 426 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: what precisely happened, then they don't have to deal with 427 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: what absolutely happened, which is that you were assaulted for 428 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: filming somebody, because they don't care it doesn't fit the narrative. 429 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: Is why my finger and knuckles hurt and it's raining outside. Yeah, 430 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: as you're you're talking about this in this disconnect. Yeah, 431 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 1: we don't have truth. We have people that believe I 432 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: can't even say that they believe a different set of 433 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: facts they utilized. But yeah, we do have one truth? 434 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: What is that? And only one truth? The products and 435 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: services that support this podcast together everything, We're back, And 436 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry for interrupting you, Katie. I made a 437 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: sacred vow on the top of Mount Corek that I 438 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: would never let a perfect opportunity for an ad plug 439 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: pass me by, and and so my promise to the God. 440 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: I understand. There's a lot that I don't understand, but 441 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: I understand a sacred bow. Um. I was just uh 442 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: thinking about this conversation about the lack of of truth 443 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: and consensus of what's real and what isn't and so 444 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: much of it, I mean, Obama wrote about this recently too, 445 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: But so much of it has to do with the 446 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: changing media landscape, with the fact that small newspapers that 447 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: places that had you know, independent journalists or just small 448 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: newspapers that don't exist anymore more more and more anyway, 449 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: you know, and and Fox News or o n. Those 450 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: are the places that people get their information. I mean, 451 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: I'm pretty yeah. I mean it's it's face like little 452 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: blogs called like truth Serum Dot read It, you know, 453 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: like yeah, I mean that's definitely like one of the 454 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: most frustrating things about reporting on the ground is that 455 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: I will have documentation of uh, you know, a process, 456 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: like a sequence of events. I have that documentation, and 457 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: a lot of larger media hubs they will just come 458 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: in and get whatever information is most concise, and oftentimes 459 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: that's what the police claim happened. So, for example, there 460 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: was UM in New York City. There's a weekly Stone 461 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: Wall march UM and it's hosted by two trans women 462 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: um uh miss Queen Jean and Joel Rivera, and they 463 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: hold this It's a peaceful march, but for whatever reason 464 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: UM s RG, which is Strategic Response Group. They are 465 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: the ones who handle terrorism and also for some reason 466 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: protests UM. They came in full of their turtle gear 467 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:59,479 Speaker 1: UM on their bikes and at one a cop in 468 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: ahead of the march, he like starts falling off his bike, 469 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: reaches out, falls over and it prompts all the other 470 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: s RG cops just around and start going move back, 471 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: moved back, like freaking the funk out, they just start 472 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: arresting random people. And then there's footage of a cop 473 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: holding a chain against a man's neck, and the police 474 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: released a claim that the arrest that occurred that night 475 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,719 Speaker 1: were because a man attempted to strangle an officer with 476 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: a metal chain, and all of the information surrounding it 477 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: is clearly the first arrest that happened is because a 478 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: cop fell off his bike on his own and none 479 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: of these like major networks bothered to look into that, 480 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: um and you know, it's it's stuff like that where 481 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: it's like the information is there, I posted it, It 482 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: is publicly available. That's reason why I use Twitter to report, 483 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: because it's so much more accessible than if you go 484 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: on Instagram or stick to Facebook or whatever. It is, like, 485 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: it's so much more accessible. That information was right there, 486 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: and they instead went with the police claim of something 487 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: that we don't have any proof is true. Right, Well, 488 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: that's part of the other part of the problem, right 489 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: where the institutions that we're supposed to trust, uh don't 490 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: do a good job. So it's been never have exactly exactly, 491 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: and so this sort of deterioration of trust in those institutions, 492 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: um has led people to these other outlets and factions 493 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: and and and ways to get information that is even worse. Um, 494 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: but like it's not good all around, and uh, it's 495 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: it's led us to here where um you have to 496 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: like end up defending like garbage CNN just because uh 497 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: they're not fucking or whatever, like yeah, but they still 498 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: I mean, this is the thing you saw people. I 499 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: think there is actually some evidence of people of people 500 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: in legacy media is starting to realize this because there's 501 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: been a couple of articles in some larger outlets that 502 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: have been like, hey, we can't trust the police at 503 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: face value. But it still has not sunk through in 504 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: the way that it needs to yet. Um that's why 505 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: it's going to sound horrible. But every time a legacy 506 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: media person gets assaulted by the cops, there's a part 507 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: of me that's like good, Like, now now you'll understand 508 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: what like what the rest of us have been going through, 509 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: Like this is what they do. Yeah, I've noticed. I've 510 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: noticed that media has started showing up to actions because 511 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: they've routinely asked for my footage for free, and I've 512 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: been like, uh, no, I actually had as someone at 513 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: The New York Times message me and say like, asked 514 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: to use my footage and said, I understand if you're 515 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: a professional journalist. Just thought i'd ask and I was 516 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: like if if excuse me, and then I was like, yeah, no, 517 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 1: I I can license the footage for a fee, and 518 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: she goes, okay, never mind, yep, yeah, of course. And 519 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: so they've started showing up to these actions, and because 520 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: they haven't spent any time developing any sort of awareness 521 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: on the environment that they're reporting on, they just go 522 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: with what they think is correct and the easiest uh 523 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: place to get information is from the cops um. And 524 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: it's it's troubling because it's like I've been doing this 525 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: work and now you're coming in to do the work 526 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: I've been doing worse by a lot. They There's an 527 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: article in the l A Times that just dropped like 528 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 1: two days ago that was based on there. I think 529 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: they're Seattle bureauhead going to Portland for like two days 530 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 1: and attending one rally and talking to four black people 531 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: and then saying the black community has issues with the anarchists, 532 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: and it was like, you talked to four black people. 533 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: You talk to the four black people who you type 534 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: in black Portland activists were the first ones to come up. 535 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: That's what you did. You didn't actually try to meet 536 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: any like, which is like not to say that they're 537 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,359 Speaker 1: in a bunch of black people who have issues with 538 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: like what did like you know, far left protesters have 539 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: done in Portland, but like claiming their don't mean that 540 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:30,439 Speaker 1: you because you googled for black people. It's like, it's 541 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: like that that guy that got interviewed, he was like 542 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: the basis for that article about embedding with ANTIFA and 543 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: how they're they're insurgent whatever insurgent anarchists is like any 544 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: good anti fascists, any good anarchist would not have let 545 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: you roll with them because they have good they have 546 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: way better opset than that You were rolling with a 547 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: bunch of twelve year olds wearing black hoodies like yeah, yeah, 548 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: and you you decided that everyone breaking a window was 549 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 1: an insurgent anarchist, which there's a lot of anarchists who 550 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,399 Speaker 1: will break windows. But you didn't do the leg where 551 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: it's it's this, it's this eternally frustrating thing about the 552 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: legacy media, where number it's the Jake Tapper problem. That's 553 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: what I call it where you are required to have 554 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: a take on everything, but also you can't possibly be 555 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: competent on more than one or two of the forty 556 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: to fifty things you have a take on every week, 557 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: and so most of your takes are ship because there's 558 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: a you're just going to be bad And everyone does 559 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: this to some extent, But if you're not the headlining 560 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: CNN dude or like you know, someone who has a 561 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: a weekly piece for The New York Times, the damage 562 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: you can do is minimal. And I'm not shooting on 563 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: the New York Times because Charlie Warzel, one of their 564 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 1: opinion art writers at large, is actually one of like 565 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: seven reasonable people left in the United States. But as 566 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: a rule, one of the problems is you have to 567 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: have a take, and you you're it is not going 568 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:01,839 Speaker 1: to have good ones most of the time. You're going 569 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: to be like Jake Tapper getting tracked, like tricked by 570 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: Andy No because you watched a thirty second video and 571 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,280 Speaker 1: assume you understand a four year long running street battle, 572 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 1: right and it it legitimizes all those terrible opinions and 573 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: uninformed opinions because he's the man in the suit on 574 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: the TV he's the he's the serious guy. Uh so 575 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: you have to trust what he says. I hate it. 576 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: I hate you know. I hate Obama too because of 577 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: you know, a number of things. But I love the 578 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: phrase he's going full grandpa. Let me tell you why 579 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 1: I don't like the first off, Ken yet. Now, in 580 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: that interview that you cited earlier, when he talks about 581 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: kind of like the truth christ he the phrase he 582 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,919 Speaker 1: uses to describe our problems with the lack of any 583 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: sort of accepted understanding of realities an epistemological crisis. Um 584 00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: And I love that phrasing because that's what it is. 585 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: You have, this you you have like the collapse of 586 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: truth in our society is not all that different from 587 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: the foundation of a building falling in and it has 588 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: the same impact on everything. Um. And. There are a 589 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: lot of people who think that they can fix the 590 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: crisis of truth by talking to the liars and getting 591 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: their perspective. Um. Yeah, it's the people who believe in 592 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,399 Speaker 1: a marketplace of ideas which has never existed and never 593 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,359 Speaker 1: will existed. It's the dumbest concept anyone ever came up with. 594 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: There's no marketplace of ideas. There's people who are lying. 595 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: There's people who know that they're lying and are lying. 596 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,919 Speaker 1: There's people who don't know that they're lying and are lying. 597 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: And then there's the truth. It's people who pay other 598 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: people to lie for these people who make money from lying. 599 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: It's I feel like the what we're concluding on here 600 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: is that Evans, you and I are the only frontline 601 00:38:55,160 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 1: journalists out there who are doing anything good and we 602 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:07,399 Speaker 1: should get millions of dollars. But instead, uh, the Jake 603 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: Tappers of the world are the ones taking our money 604 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: to say stupid shit, and we should riot against them. 605 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: You should host the lead yeah with the name with 606 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 1: all check out your Patreon is what they should also do. 607 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know, I just think that that's such 608 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: a cool thing. That's so I mean, Patreon has been 609 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: transformative for Cody and I, uh in doing our our 610 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: business outside of this show, um, and for so many people, 611 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: you know, like crowdsourcing of money that to support the 612 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,919 Speaker 1: people that you believe in, that's doing work that you 613 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,720 Speaker 1: you care. Yeah, I mean, there's so much, especially in media, 614 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,359 Speaker 1: but in a lot of industries, there's so much gate keeping. Um, 615 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: where if I am trying to cover something or write 616 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: about something, I either need to do it at a 617 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: loss um, with like a lot of um energy and 618 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: time and money spent on my end knowing that all 619 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: I'm getting is exposure, or um, I am getting overwhelmed 620 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: with like the amount of work that I have to 621 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: do to justify like a semi reasonable amount of income. Um. 622 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: And so something like Patreon allows for Like people call me, 623 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: they say that I'm not a real journalist because I 624 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: have a Patreon, and I'm like, no, I am, like 625 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: you google me, um, but it's because I'm crowdfunding to 626 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 1: do the work. UM. So that way then I can 627 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: do the work that I feel needs to be done. 628 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: Like I trust my intuition and my ability to recognize 629 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 1: where the story is and what the story is and 630 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 1: my ability to vet out information. UM. Like I trust 631 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:05,279 Speaker 1: myself in that respect as a journalist, and UM, you 632 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 1: know the evidence bears that out. Like I'm actually kind 633 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: of good at this UM. And it's like I'm not 634 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,839 Speaker 1: going to be wasting my time trying to suck up 635 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:18,880 Speaker 1: to editors or you know, applying for jobs and doing 636 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: really intensive edit tests that don't pan out, um, when 637 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,840 Speaker 1: I could be on the ground doing the fucking work 638 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, getting that done as it's happening. Like, 639 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 1: it just doesn't make sense to me to to be 640 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 1: prevented from the work because of the barriers created by 641 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 1: the industry when I can just skip all that people, 642 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 1: I I'm gonna probably piss off some of like my 643 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,959 Speaker 1: legacy journalist listeners who say is but like, I've never 644 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: understood giving a funk about a CV or a resume 645 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 1: for a journalist. The only thing you need is a 646 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 1: resume is a list of here's ship that I wrote, 647 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: Here's things that I did, your stories that I like. 648 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,840 Speaker 1: That's like I've hired journalists before and I'm currently in 649 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: the process of hiring journalists, and the only thing that 650 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 1: I look at is like, well, what did you do? 651 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: Would you do? And that's not really what a resume is. 652 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 1: A resume is like how you frame your education and 653 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,319 Speaker 1: history and background, and like doing that matters in terms 654 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,359 Speaker 1: of like whether or not a journalist is a real 655 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,799 Speaker 1: journalist is have they done real fucking journalism? Right? What's 656 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: the work? Not what's the mass? Head? Yeah, no, give 657 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:34,399 Speaker 1: give Talia money, tell us where, Yeah, people can find 658 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 1: your Patreon and find you online and all that. Uh, 659 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: Patreon dot com slash Talia Jane and then um twitter 660 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,360 Speaker 1: in it's an underscore Talia. You can also just search 661 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,839 Speaker 1: the words Talia and the word Jane and I will 662 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 1: probably come up in that. UM got some good. You 663 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 1: guys got some good. I still haven't gotten fleets, tweets 664 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,440 Speaker 1: on fleets, tweets on look, I want to I have 665 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 1: something something I want to read, y'all, and then get 666 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 1: people's thoughts on That kind of goes back to the 667 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: what we've been talking about visa vi uh Nazis and 668 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,000 Speaker 1: fascists and confronting them or not confronting them, and why 669 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,759 Speaker 1: it was such a bad thing for certain people to 670 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: have said, like, hey, don't don't go after these folks, Um, 671 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: don't march and confront them. But before we do that, 672 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 1: you know who loves confronting Nazis? Uh, Blue apron, Yes, 673 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: Blue Apron cannot be stopped from crushing Nazi skulls. Um 674 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 1: to the fact that it's actually caused something of a 675 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 1: problem for them, and they're they're buried. Also a lot 676 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:47,320 Speaker 1: of a lot of legal issues, they're a lot of 677 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:53,759 Speaker 1: legal Um. Yeah, it's a complicated matter. Um, So if 678 00:43:53,760 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: he can we say that we can we can Yeah? 679 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 1: Can we say the truth good, the truth about Blue 680 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 1: Apron cracking the skulls of skinheads, rolling up on some 681 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 1: bone heads and exposing the bone in their heads using 682 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: a length of pipe. Blue Apron, fuck the Nazis together everything. 683 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,279 Speaker 1: We're back, and we're really hoping Blue Apron gives us 684 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:37,880 Speaker 1: some money. Yeah, because they're gonna win all their losses. 685 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:45,800 Speaker 1: Fingers crossed, fingers crossed. Um. So this is actually something 686 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,759 Speaker 1: I came across in January of two thousand seventeen. I 687 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,080 Speaker 1: almost I was planning on including in an article I 688 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,000 Speaker 1: was writing for Cracked, but it never never quite shook 689 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 1: out the way I wanted it to, uh, and then 690 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 1: we all got fired. But it's a quote from a 691 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: guy who's a friend of mine on Twitter. Pucket one 692 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,360 Speaker 1: zero one is the name on Twitter, and he's an 693 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,399 Speaker 1: old punk dude. I've actually chatted with him a couple 694 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,120 Speaker 1: of times over the phone too, and um his he 695 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: tells a story here about his youth in the punk 696 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 1: hardcore scene that I think is very emblematic of a 697 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:22,359 Speaker 1: truth about Nazis uh and important for people to hear. Uh. Yeah, 698 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,400 Speaker 1: if you were here's Pucket. If you were part of 699 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,800 Speaker 1: any punk hardcore scene in the eighties and nineties, you 700 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,240 Speaker 1: probably laid hands on a Nazi skin head at least once. 701 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: If you were in punk hardcore at the time, you 702 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,720 Speaker 1: probably saw Nazi skins show up and push people around. 703 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:36,440 Speaker 1: You may have seen a show or even if then 704 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,360 Speaker 1: you get shut down because of it. One of my 705 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 1: favorite bars refrained from telling a Nazi skin to leave 706 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 1: because he said he just wanted one beer and would 707 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,120 Speaker 1: be on his way. That ended with hiring active duty 708 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,719 Speaker 1: and retired servicemen a security specifically to sit in them 709 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 1: on their way. It culminated with about twenty Nazi skins 710 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,360 Speaker 1: attacking the bar in a massive brawl. There were numerous 711 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:55,920 Speaker 1: fights along the way. There was a good chunk of 712 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: my life when I think everyone I knew had put 713 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,320 Speaker 1: hands on a Nazi And here's why it was never 714 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,800 Speaker 1: just one Nazi skin. One became six, became twenty Nazi 715 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,439 Speaker 1: skin showed up, pushed people around, took over the venue, 716 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,200 Speaker 1: and turned everything to ship with bullying, abuse and their 717 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:15,759 Speaker 1: sig higling. And that's kind of the kind of the 718 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 1: story he's pointing out. And there's actually a few people 719 00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:19,480 Speaker 1: in his comments who came up with similar stories of 720 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,919 Speaker 1: the punk scene that like, if you had a punk bar, 721 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 1: it would start with one guy with some Nazi patches 722 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,560 Speaker 1: showing up and he would just want to drink and 723 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,879 Speaker 1: be a reasonable guy and say, look, you know, like 724 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 1: can I not drink here? Is this bar or not 725 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 1: for everybody? Yeah, And then he comes back with a friend, 726 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 1: and then he comes back with four friends, and then 727 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 1: they're beating the ship out of everyone at the bar 728 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,480 Speaker 1: who's not a Nazi. And that's how Nazis work, and 729 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,640 Speaker 1: it does. It's not just confined to the punk hard 730 00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:51,680 Speaker 1: core scene. It's confined to say downtown Washington, d C. Yeah, 731 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 1: I mean that's what we've seen. That's what we've seen 732 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: at protests, you know, whether it's whether it's Proud Boys 733 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,839 Speaker 1: or the police. Um. The police use have cracked down 734 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:08,880 Speaker 1: harder on small um like peaceful uh marches in the 735 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,320 Speaker 1: city where it's you know, maybe twenty or thirty people. 736 00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 1: Then they did, you know, So we had this massive 737 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,080 Speaker 1: action for Brianna Taylor that had something like two or 738 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,440 Speaker 1: three thousand people, and the cops just let it happen. 739 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,440 Speaker 1: They did not bother anybody because they recognized that they 740 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:29,719 Speaker 1: were actually outnumbered. UM. But then more recently there was 741 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:38,520 Speaker 1: an action UM to discuss like femicide and UM a 742 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,279 Speaker 1: lot of things. It was after it was the day 743 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:44,600 Speaker 1: after it doesn't matter UM, Like we had a ton 744 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,800 Speaker 1: of people who showed up to Washington Square Park to party. UM. 745 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,879 Speaker 1: This was the day after cops had rushed the park 746 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:53,759 Speaker 1: when there was a smattering of people in it after 747 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:58,000 Speaker 1: midnight and brutally arrested to people. UM. And then the 748 00:47:58,080 --> 00:47:59,799 Speaker 1: day after that it was like, all right, let's see 749 00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 1: if they try it, Like if they try and close 750 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,359 Speaker 1: the park again with all these people here and they 751 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,319 Speaker 1: didn't do it. It's when you're not showing up, Like 752 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,319 Speaker 1: you don't need to be frontline to show up. You 753 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,600 Speaker 1: just need to have your physical body taking up space 754 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:20,080 Speaker 1: to protect the other people who are frontline, who are 755 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,800 Speaker 1: ready to get their ship rocked. It's just it's incredibly 756 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,359 Speaker 1: frustrating that time and again we see this same thing 757 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,720 Speaker 1: play out and the same conclusion made, and people still 758 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:36,960 Speaker 1: find ways to rationalize staying home and donating to act 759 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:46,719 Speaker 1: Blue Links as a justifiable alternative when it's not. It's 760 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 1: a situation where like the way it actually works is 761 00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,799 Speaker 1: if you have enough people showing up. If you have 762 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 1: thousands of people showing up, you only need a hundred 763 00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,080 Speaker 1: to two hundred front liners if you've three thousand people 764 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,000 Speaker 1: showing up to back them up, because all the front 765 00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,359 Speaker 1: liners need to do is present a visible deterrent while 766 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,000 Speaker 1: the crowd presents evidence that like, these people can't be 767 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:14,160 Speaker 1: pushed around, and the cops will stay away and the 768 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,840 Speaker 1: fash will run away. And that's how it works. You 769 00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,600 Speaker 1: need the numbers and part of living in a society. 770 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,040 Speaker 1: People are scared about fascism now right. They're scared because 771 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,280 Speaker 1: of the ship the president saying Lindsey Graham saying about 772 00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,480 Speaker 1: throwing out votes, and like, yes, that is that is 773 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,880 Speaker 1: fascy as hell, that's fascism. It's scary. The way to 774 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,040 Speaker 1: fight it, like voting, is the tenius tenius, tenious chunk 775 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:37,600 Speaker 1: of fighting it. The way to fight it is to 776 00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,799 Speaker 1: show up in the street and let those people know 777 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,440 Speaker 1: they aren't welcome. And if enough of you show up, 778 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,920 Speaker 1: you don't even have to beat them to death. But 779 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,080 Speaker 1: if not enough people show up, then you might have 780 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,879 Speaker 1: to beat them to death. Well it's hard because I've 781 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,759 Speaker 1: heard people say, like, well, if you don't if nobody's there, 782 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:54,719 Speaker 1: then there's not going to be a fight. Just let 783 00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,839 Speaker 1: them get it out of their system. They do their day. 784 00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,560 Speaker 1: But then you're not showing up and saying no, that 785 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,600 Speaker 1: I do support this. You're not saying this will not stand. 786 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,839 Speaker 1: It becomes something that is more normalized, and that if 787 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,560 Speaker 1: you don't show up, if there's no one showing up, 788 00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,760 Speaker 1: they will just attack someone walking their dog down the street, 789 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,359 Speaker 1: like what happened in New York when those five Proud 790 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,399 Speaker 1: Boys got arrested. They're they're they're they're showing up with 791 00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:26,200 Speaker 1: the intent of committing violence and like feeling powerful. So 792 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,680 Speaker 1: whether or not you as a person who knows how 793 00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:30,480 Speaker 1: to throw a punch and has a shield and is 794 00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,640 Speaker 1: ready to go, whether or not you were there, they 795 00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,000 Speaker 1: will still do that. It's a matter whether they're going 796 00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,319 Speaker 1: to do it with someone ready to fight back or 797 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,000 Speaker 1: someone who's just walking down the street. That's the point. 798 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:47,240 Speaker 1: Plus it also the the idea of UM people showing 799 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,279 Speaker 1: up to show that like this ship won't be tolerated. 800 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:56,200 Speaker 1: That also blends into why UM anarchists go around and 801 00:50:56,239 --> 00:51:01,880 Speaker 1: smash windows. It's not because they hate window. UM windows 802 00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:07,480 Speaker 1: was incredible. We love windows. UM it's because it's it's 803 00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:14,880 Speaker 1: vocalizing frustration and also showing that the people will lash 804 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,560 Speaker 1: out when things are bad, we will not take it 805 00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:22,160 Speaker 1: lying down. And that goes towards fascists, That goes towards 806 00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:26,839 Speaker 1: the police state, that goes towards capitalism um, capitalist white supremacy, 807 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,440 Speaker 1: like the system at large, like all. Like you know, 808 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,040 Speaker 1: if you if you're going to put down looting and 809 00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:37,600 Speaker 1: burning things down um and also refusing to show up 810 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,839 Speaker 1: for peaceful protests, you are not for the movement. You're 811 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,160 Speaker 1: not in the movement, and you have no interest in 812 00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:47,080 Speaker 1: helping to defend against the fascist terrorist threat that we 813 00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:53,000 Speaker 1: are very much in the middle of. Patreon, do Jane 814 00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:01,759 Speaker 1: your money, please your shoot your cash after your your 815 00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,040 Speaker 1: PayPal in here too, Talia. Sometimes people just want to 816 00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,920 Speaker 1: throw your bucks. But I don't like use Patreon because 817 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,440 Speaker 1: they're an arm of the CIA. That's my conspiracy theory. 818 00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,640 Speaker 1: Patreon is the c I'm pretty sure PayPal is just 819 00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,480 Speaker 1: PayPal dot me slash Talia Jane cash up and venmo 820 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:24,480 Speaker 1: or just Talia Jane um. Pretty pretty easy. I got 821 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:29,600 Speaker 1: I got all those handles early on MHM. Talia money 822 00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,360 Speaker 1: and show up to yell at Nazis and also cops 823 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,560 Speaker 1: in the street. Um, you don't have to break any laws. 824 00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,279 Speaker 1: All you have to do is be there and be angry. 825 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,800 Speaker 1: And we're all angry right where A jacket, it's fine, 826 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:48,160 Speaker 1: And a mask A mask? A mask? Yeah, actually maybe 827 00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,120 Speaker 1: two masks. Things are getting very bad, double dot shut up. 828 00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:55,320 Speaker 1: I'd recommend some gloves, maybe in like um safety shield 829 00:52:55,360 --> 00:53:00,439 Speaker 1: of some sort to fish and a mask. We're gonna 830 00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,680 Speaker 1: go bio hazard block on the hive x baby tive 831 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:08,319 Speaker 1: x block hell yeah, or just like a big garbage bag. 832 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. Thank you so much for joining us today, 833 00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:15,480 Speaker 1: and thank you guys. Having you guys do this is 834 00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:17,919 Speaker 1: awesome and I love all of you, and I'm glad 835 00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,239 Speaker 1: that we got to have this cute little baby. Yeah, 836 00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,480 Speaker 1: it was nice, alright. We all used to work together 837 00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:28,400 Speaker 1: at a website you might have heard of. Yes, that's it, 838 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:35,439 Speaker 1: that's where it was. They times together and folks dot 839 00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:41,959 Speaker 1: net failing New York times. I can have cheeseburger dot com. Yeah, 840 00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:48,879 Speaker 1: I used to make so much simpler times I've done 841 00:53:48,880 --> 00:54:03,680 Speaker 1: it by everything so great. I tread Dan Worst Year 842 00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,040 Speaker 1: Ever is a production of I Heart Radio. For more 843 00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,880 Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 844 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,880 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.