1
00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,520
Speaker 1: Loka Tora Radio is a radiophonic novella.

2
00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,600
Speaker 2: Which is just a very extra way of saying a podcast.

3
00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,880
Speaker 1: I'm Fosa m and I am Mala. Munos Lokatra Radio

4
00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:25,119
Speaker 1: is yr Brima's favorite podcast, hosted by us Mala and Viosa.

5
00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:30,800
Speaker 2: We're two ig friends turned podcast partners, breaking down pop culture, feminism,

6
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,280
Speaker 2: sexual wellness, and offering fresh takes on trending topics through

7
00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,800
Speaker 2: nuanced interviews with up and coming LATINX creatives.

8
00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,000
Speaker 1: Known as Las Lokatas, Las Mammis of Myth and Bullshit

9
00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:47,279
Speaker 1: and Las Borgrosas. We were podcasting independently since twenty sixteen,

10
00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,040
Speaker 1: but joined iHeartMedia's Microtura network in twenty twenty two.

11
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,480
Speaker 2: This year, we're continuing to share stories from the LATINX community.

12
00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:03,160
Speaker 1: Bartol Mundo, Welcome to season eight. Are you listening? O

13
00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 1: La La Lokamotis, Welcome to season eight of lok at

14
00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:07,080
Speaker 1: Dora Radio.

15
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:08,679
Speaker 2: I'm Theosa and I'm Mala.

16
00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 1: You're tuning in to Capitolos one eighty six.

17
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,959
Speaker 2: Last time on loc Ata Radio, we had an end

18
00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,319
Speaker 2: of the year check in. Go ahead and listen to

19
00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,880
Speaker 2: that episode. Leave us a review, Subscribe to look at

20
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:22,639
Speaker 2: our Radio and share with a friend.

21
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,559
Speaker 1: So we're going to jump right into today's episode because

22
00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,600
Speaker 1: we have a packed episode. We're going to be talking

23
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:35,559
Speaker 1: about transformative justice and what happens after a call out,

24
00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,319
Speaker 1: a public call out at that once the dust settles.

25
00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,880
Speaker 1: What do you do when you're at the center of

26
00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,280
Speaker 1: a call out? How do you heal? How do you

27
00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:49,400
Speaker 1: move forward? Last year, Doris Anai Munios was publicly called

28
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,240
Speaker 1: out on Instagram in November twenty twenty two by people

29
00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,120
Speaker 1: in the local creative scene of Los Angeles.

30
00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,000
Speaker 2: Many of the initial social media posts have since been

31
00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,920
Speaker 2: taken down in the year since the initial call out,

32
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,080
Speaker 2: but some people who worked on projects with Doris, most

33
00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,160
Speaker 2: notably the Disney Meha documentary, claimed that they were manipulated

34
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,800
Speaker 2: and exploited a year later. This will be the first

35
00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,640
Speaker 2: time Doris talks about the call out in an interview

36
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:18,760
Speaker 2: with us here on lok at thought Our Radio.

37
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,799
Speaker 1: When Doris's team approached us about having her on look

38
00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 1: at our Radio, we were interested in hosting this conversation

39
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,480
Speaker 1: because we've seen the ebb and flow of callouts over

40
00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,360
Speaker 1: the years since twenty sixteen, and definitely before, but at

41
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,280
Speaker 1: least since the existence of lok at thot Our Radio.

42
00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,800
Speaker 1: We have seen a number of callouts on Twitter, on Instagram,

43
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,360
Speaker 1: but we've actually never seen those callouts result in public

44
00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,639
Speaker 1: transformative justice. But social media callouts and our experience tend

45
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,160
Speaker 1: to take place online for the most part, and they

46
00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,840
Speaker 1: stay there. So what happens after that? And I think

47
00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,280
Speaker 1: that that's the framework for today's episode. We've seen people

48
00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,560
Speaker 1: disappear from social media completely. I can think of a

49
00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,640
Speaker 1: handful of people that have completely won off the grid

50
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,080
Speaker 1: or on the other end, continue on like nothing ever happened.

51
00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,200
Speaker 2: And we are not here to play judge or jury.

52
00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,920
Speaker 2: Nobody is on trial here. We're not like dissecting evidence.

53
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,640
Speaker 2: We are not deciding whether or not claims are valid

54
00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:22,960
Speaker 2: or not. We were not there, we weren't working on

55
00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,840
Speaker 2: the project, and we also are not going to address

56
00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,440
Speaker 2: like every issue everybody has ever had with Doris. Ever,

57
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:36,000
Speaker 2: we're pretty specifically talking about the Miha documentary and the

58
00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:40,240
Speaker 2: issues surrounding it. So we hope that you, you know,

59
00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,720
Speaker 2: listen to the whole episode and listen to the whole interview,

60
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,240
Speaker 2: and thank you for tuning in. We're here in studio

61
00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,320
Speaker 2: with today's guest. Everybody, please welcomes and can you please

62
00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,400
Speaker 2: introduce yourself for our listeners.

63
00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:57,240
Speaker 3: Al, my name is Dorisa Nai. I am an elie

64
00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:02,400
Speaker 3: born so Cal raised Mexico City, bag singer, songwriter, former

65
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:10,200
Speaker 3: music industry veteran. I guess at this point and well

66
00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,000
Speaker 3: here I am Didy.

67
00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,400
Speaker 2: Doris just released an EP titled for Las Buenas, which

68
00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:33,560
Speaker 2: is a follow up to her previous eples Wus. After

69
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,200
Speaker 2: the very public falling out, she moved to Mexico to

70
00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,440
Speaker 2: disconnect from it all, reconnect with her creativity and work

71
00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:44,000
Speaker 2: on healing. Either were a series of posts made by

72
00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,960
Speaker 2: different creatives like related to their collaborative work with you

73
00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,080
Speaker 2: and I would love if you could just share with us, like, girl,

74
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,000
Speaker 2: what happened you know, what happened and what prompted the move?

75
00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,080
Speaker 2: What happened there with the with the posts and and

76
00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,680
Speaker 2: how have you worked through this whole process? In the

77
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:00,880
Speaker 2: year since that, I.

78
00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,720
Speaker 3: Was a protagonist trying to steer away from the words

79
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:10,280
Speaker 3: subject of a documentary called Mika and that was independently

80
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,800
Speaker 3: made over the last three years, premiered at Sundance last year,

81
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:19,400
Speaker 3: then sold to Disney a couple months after, and wescithity

82
00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:26,239
Speaker 3: wal it was a whirlwind after Disney bought the film.

83
00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,719
Speaker 3: It was a cocktail of situations that had to happen

84
00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,360
Speaker 3: that finally pushed me. I've been feeling called to move

85
00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,400
Speaker 3: to Mehico for years, and I think I always just

86
00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,520
Speaker 3: told myself, I'm like, no, not the time, honestly, just

87
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,719
Speaker 3: making excuses for myself. And then last fall happened in

88
00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,039
Speaker 3: a way that I would have never anticipated, Like the

89
00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,520
Speaker 3: film was delayed in September, the same week that I

90
00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,279
Speaker 3: found out my grandma was going to pass away, and

91
00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,719
Speaker 3: so ushering in a month of morning. And then my

92
00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,240
Speaker 3: grandma passed away in October, and then I went through

93
00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:03,400
Speaker 3: a really horrible breakup betrayal that I understood why people

94
00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,680
Speaker 3: need to move after really severe breakups in their life,

95
00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,520
Speaker 3: never really understood it until that moment. And then literally

96
00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,920
Speaker 3: weeks after that was when everything exploded online. Things came

97
00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,719
Speaker 3: to a head when the film was supposed to be released,

98
00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,920
Speaker 3: and the day before the film was supposed to come

99
00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 3: out on Disney Plus, I got called into like an

100
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,479
Speaker 3: emergency zoom that the film was going to be delayed

101
00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,320
Speaker 3: a week and that they couldn't tell me why, but

102
00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,919
Speaker 3: that they were working on it at this point I

103
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,760
Speaker 3: had no idea what was going on. A week later,

104
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,080
Speaker 3: still no news is to you know, the film is

105
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,880
Speaker 3: not going to come out on the week push date,

106
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,920
Speaker 3: and that they said that they'll just continue to work

107
00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,160
Speaker 3: on it and let me know. It wasn't until a

108
00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,600
Speaker 3: few weeks later that I found out the reason why,

109
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,039
Speaker 3: and I think those are personal details that I can't

110
00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:56,720
Speaker 3: speak to. And then I understood the severity of the

111
00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,159
Speaker 3: situation and why the film wasn't going to be released.

112
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,919
Speaker 3: And then I find out that the film is edited

113
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:09,200
Speaker 3: according to what was asked of and still continued on

114
00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,840
Speaker 3: to try to still be released into the world. And

115
00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,840
Speaker 3: when I did one last post about the film screening

116
00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,560
Speaker 3: for a Lakhma series that josh Kun was curating and

117
00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,040
Speaker 3: we did like a panel with him for I had

118
00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,800
Speaker 3: stated like, this is like my last public appearance with

119
00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:28,600
Speaker 3: the film. I still have no idea what the future

120
00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,560
Speaker 3: of the film has to hold. But here you go,

121
00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,080
Speaker 3: and this is me thinking or actually knowing that the

122
00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:41,520
Speaker 3: film had been edited, redelivered on the director's dime to

123
00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:47,880
Speaker 3: then be distributed on Disney Plus. And then that's when

124
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:53,800
Speaker 3: the chaos ensued and I received a comment calling me

125
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,000
Speaker 3: out on, like, why am I still promoting this film

126
00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:01,840
Speaker 3: if it is caused harm to others involved in the film?

127
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,240
Speaker 3: Me thinking or me knowing that what has been asked

128
00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,560
Speaker 3: of has been complied with in order for the film

129
00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:14,600
Speaker 3: to still be released. I then deleted the comment, are

130
00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,320
Speaker 3: gonna accountable for that? Right? I deleted the comment? And

131
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,000
Speaker 3: I think then that unleashed my past of being a

132
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,720
Speaker 3: conflict avoidant person. And that's what I know in one

133
00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,600
Speaker 3: thousand percent that like I take ownership for I think

134
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,360
Speaker 3: being a young leader, you learn through a lot in

135
00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,880
Speaker 3: real time, you fail over and over and over again.

136
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:41,200
Speaker 3: It's trial by fire, but not until it's taken publicly.

137
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,560
Speaker 3: That's when you really feel like the crushing weight of it, right,

138
00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:50,480
Speaker 3: And well, yeah, that's when I saw post after posts,

139
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:55,080
Speaker 3: comment after comment, and it got out of hand in

140
00:08:55,120 --> 00:09:00,679
Speaker 3: a way that really broke me. And I don't think

141
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:06,160
Speaker 3: anyone can really prepare you for what that feeling will

142
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,000
Speaker 3: do to take over like your whole nervous system. You know,

143
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,600
Speaker 3: I felt like I wasn't even like my right mind

144
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:17,280
Speaker 3: for like seventy two hours minimum. But when you are

145
00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,600
Speaker 3: publicly being held accountable for something that you don't have

146
00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,960
Speaker 3: all the answers for to try to put a coherent

147
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:28,160
Speaker 3: thought together within like the usual. Like people are like

148
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,360
Speaker 3: it's been twenty four hours, Like people were on Instagram

149
00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,720
Speaker 3: life saying it's been twenty four hours. She hasn't responded. Meanwhile,

150
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:42,160
Speaker 3: I'm like trying not to like harm myself and not

151
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:48,200
Speaker 3: believe fully what is being said to affect like the

152
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:54,080
Speaker 3: worth of my life. Yeah, it's yeah, this is the

153
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,360
Speaker 3: first time I'm talking about it so or on the record.

154
00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,439
Speaker 3: I've talked about it a lot in the last year

155
00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,400
Speaker 3: with my loved ones, like post ones, with colleagues, with

156
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,959
Speaker 3: folks that I offered like two, like hey, haven't heard

157
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,240
Speaker 3: from you. I don't know if you what you feel

158
00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,520
Speaker 3: about me, but like I would still love to like

159
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,679
Speaker 3: have you in my life. We're free for you wanting

160
00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,920
Speaker 3: me to be in your life. So if you need

161
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,320
Speaker 3: me to talk about what happened, I'm an open book,

162
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,680
Speaker 3: feel free to ask me. And like, in that moment,

163
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,160
Speaker 3: I had to like fight the urge to want to

164
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,760
Speaker 3: post every single receipt that I had to defend myself

165
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,439
Speaker 3: because I know that I was just gonna contribute to

166
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,080
Speaker 3: the narrative that was already being painted about me. And

167
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,920
Speaker 3: to have to address like the nuance of every situation

168
00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:43,040
Speaker 3: case by case. Boys, how do you do that when

169
00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:47,280
Speaker 3: you're not even right? Yeah?

170
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,880
Speaker 2: Thank you for taking us back to that time and

171
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,440
Speaker 2: walking us through the film and what was going on

172
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,080
Speaker 2: with that and the once the call outs and the

173
00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,959
Speaker 2: post started to come in, I'm so curious about life,

174
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,200
Speaker 2: Like what was your next step? You know, once you

175
00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,480
Speaker 2: sort of the dust sort of settled and it was

176
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,480
Speaker 2: all laid out in front of you and everything was written,

177
00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,800
Speaker 2: and what did you do next?

178
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,800
Speaker 3: I mean I first had to like take definitely take

179
00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,440
Speaker 3: care of my mental health. To be honest with you,

180
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,200
Speaker 3: I wanted to check myself in after that happened, but

181
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:26,160
Speaker 3: I couldn't afford it, and I was surrounded by like

182
00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:30,920
Speaker 3: friends and family care at that time, like around the clock.

183
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,160
Speaker 3: I knew that I had to be in the right

184
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,440
Speaker 3: state of mind to be even to even try to

185
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,160
Speaker 3: find a next step forward, Like how am I going

186
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:40,959
Speaker 3: to handle the situation if I don't even want to

187
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:45,560
Speaker 3: be alive? I'm an abolitionist like first and foremost, and

188
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,520
Speaker 3: I knew that what I was going to have to

189
00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,760
Speaker 3: step into was a transformative justice process. And that's what

190
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,400
Speaker 3: I believe in, and that's what a lot of people

191
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,800
Speaker 3: who did post I thought believed in as well. Next

192
00:11:58,840 --> 00:11:59,240
Speaker 3: step in.

193
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,920
Speaker 1: Why, in your perspective did it get to the point

194
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,360
Speaker 1: that people felt they needed to do a call out?

195
00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:08,439
Speaker 1: Why do you think it got to that point?

196
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,199
Speaker 3: It first started with the film, right and the post

197
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,640
Speaker 3: that was made about that and really positioning me in

198
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:19,560
Speaker 3: a place of power that I am the one who

199
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:24,319
Speaker 3: is accountable to the harm that has been caused due

200
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:30,960
Speaker 3: to just how the film played out. So that's one

201
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:36,920
Speaker 3: step right there, right like Doris is responsible for this film,

202
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,920
Speaker 3: So let's lay that out right there. And then it

203
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:45,280
Speaker 3: brought out my past where as a young leader, I

204
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:52,360
Speaker 3: struggled with conflict resolution. I was spread so thin, I

205
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,719
Speaker 3: put way too much on my plate at a very

206
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,040
Speaker 3: young age. I started a business at twenty three years old,

207
00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,120
Speaker 3: not going to business school, just like running off of

208
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,719
Speaker 3: a vision and a woman. I think anyone who is

209
00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:07,080
Speaker 3: an entrepreneur, who is a creative understands those first few

210
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:12,640
Speaker 3: years of struggling and learning through failure, and especially when

211
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,080
Speaker 3: you're collaborating then within community, you know you're calling upon

212
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,959
Speaker 3: that's the next layer you're calling upon, favors from your friends,

213
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:25,840
Speaker 3: people showing up for you in ways like giving homie

214
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,719
Speaker 3: rates or being flexible with you, or being more understanding

215
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,040
Speaker 3: than I think a typical professional relationship would be, right,

216
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:34,840
Speaker 3: And I think those are like really like the three

217
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,800
Speaker 3: pillars of what went down the film, my past as

218
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:44,160
Speaker 3: a manager, and then this last year of my really

219
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,000
Speaker 3: first year of expressing myself as an artist, as an

220
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,440
Speaker 3: independent artist at that, And I think, what's the word

221
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:57,920
Speaker 3: I'm trying to find, not perception of all of a

222
00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:03,520
Speaker 3: sudden Disney's involvement. I think them thinking that there's like

223
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,880
Speaker 3: like a lot of money behind that, and I think,

224
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,360
Speaker 3: like to make it very clear, I think y'all as

225
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:13,640
Speaker 3: journalists know this, but historically documentary ethics, documentary subjects do

226
00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,400
Speaker 3: not get paid to tell their story. That would tamper

227
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,240
Speaker 3: then write with the journalism ethics of telling your story,

228
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,360
Speaker 3: because then you would then be a paid actor, right.

229
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:28,720
Speaker 3: And there has been lots of conversations surrounding the ethics

230
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:34,200
Speaker 3: of documentaries and director quote unquote subject relationships because it

231
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 3: really is a collaborative process if you're telling your story,

232
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:39,760
Speaker 3: and especially if you're doing it independently, and then it

233
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,640
Speaker 3: gets sold and things like that right, There are loopholes

234
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:47,040
Speaker 3: that directors do find or filmmakers producers do find to

235
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,400
Speaker 3: then compensate certain you know, folks that were then that

236
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:56,440
Speaker 3: told their stories through documentary. I think especially documentarians who

237
00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:02,000
Speaker 3: make work about really like traumatic experience is right about

238
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,160
Speaker 3: like border stories or families being separated, things like that.

239
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,280
Speaker 3: They always from what I've heard, and I've done a

240
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,640
Speaker 3: lot of research into this, is that like they feel like, Okay,

241
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,200
Speaker 3: I mean, is me telling their story actually helping them,

242
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,960
Speaker 3: you know, not just that their story isn't then helping

243
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,560
Speaker 3: giving hope to everyone else who resonates. But in this case,

244
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,120
Speaker 3: with the kind of film that was being made, I

245
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,800
Speaker 3: know that the team felt like, Okay, this film being

246
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,480
Speaker 3: made is going to launch help launch this person's career,

247
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,960
Speaker 3: and so this is going to give like anyone who's

248
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,760
Speaker 3: entertainment knows the power of visibility and how can that

249
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,280
Speaker 3: absolutely catapult your whole life? And I think that was

250
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,840
Speaker 3: the true intention behind this was uplifting this whole La

251
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 3: Chicano creative community, that this was going to uplift the

252
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,120
Speaker 3: work of us as a collective on a global scale.

253
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,960
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, the film was made independently, had

254
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,640
Speaker 3: no idea what was going to become of it, right

255
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,800
Speaker 3: if it was going to even premiere at a film

256
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,280
Speaker 3: festival or I mean there's a great team behind it,

257
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 3: but you never know. And I think the cards that

258
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,440
Speaker 3: were dealt to us from the sun Dance premiere to

259
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,440
Speaker 3: the Disney sale, I think people had a lot of

260
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,960
Speaker 3: perception of what really went down or what were the

261
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,000
Speaker 3: motives behind it, and especially when it comes to I

262
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 3: think money and being involved in that. Like to this day,

263
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,240
Speaker 3: I have no idea what that film was sold for.

264
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,080
Speaker 3: I wasn't privy to that knowledge. I wasn't a producer

265
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 3: on that film. I signed the same release form that

266
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:38,640
Speaker 3: everyone did, that everyone had counsel for and I think

267
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,920
Speaker 3: that was like the first tipping point, right that where

268
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,080
Speaker 3: what was being One of the things that I read

269
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,280
Speaker 3: about me was like my past as a manager, right

270
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,280
Speaker 3: that I am of like negotiations and contracts work, right,

271
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,840
Speaker 3: So then that's again putting me in a position of

272
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,000
Speaker 3: power of responsibility over this. But I thought to be

273
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,560
Speaker 3: a producer on this film years ago when this film

274
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:05,080
Speaker 3: first started, I was advised to, and then I had

275
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,520
Speaker 3: to accept that that wasn't gonna be my reality for

276
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,320
Speaker 3: this I do see like where things went left in

277
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,439
Speaker 3: the position that I was put in because I did

278
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,119
Speaker 3: bring in people to be a part of this right,

279
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,840
Speaker 3: whether it was the folks that were in my world

280
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,280
Speaker 3: first and foremost, right, like, this film wouldn't have happened

281
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,639
Speaker 3: if my family didn't say yes, first and foremost. This

282
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,720
Speaker 3: film is an immigration story. This film was about an

283
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:32,199
Speaker 3: undocumented family who got separated and then got reunited. The music,

284
00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,000
Speaker 3: the community was like that trojan horse right to be

285
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,600
Speaker 3: able to tell the story and to resonate with a

286
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,920
Speaker 3: wider audience, right or I mean it was exactly the

287
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:49,680
Speaker 3: intertwinement of my life at that time. And so then again, yeah,

288
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 3: it puts me in this position where I had to

289
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,119
Speaker 3: not only like ask my family to say yes to

290
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,600
Speaker 3: be a part of this cause. If my brother, who

291
00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,200
Speaker 3: was reported didn't say yes to share his life, film

292
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 3: wouldn't have happened. When this film first started, my parents

293
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,159
Speaker 3: were still undocumented. If they said no, the film wouldn't

294
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,560
Speaker 3: have happened. And then it was the extra layer right

295
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,199
Speaker 3: of my career, of those who I was managing at

296
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:14,960
Speaker 3: the time when I first started this film. So summer

297
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:20,480
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, I parted ways with my biggest client.

298
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,480
Speaker 3: Then I closed my company and then transition transitioned from

299
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,280
Speaker 3: managing to mentoring, which ushered in this new person in

300
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,480
Speaker 3: my life. I then director fell in love with and

301
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,879
Speaker 3: wanted to tell her story to support her because she

302
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 3: saw the parallels in our lives. So then that layer happened,

303
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 3: and then you go into post production and then bringing

304
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 3: in the collaborators that bring the narration to life. I

305
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,280
Speaker 3: narrate the whole film based off of interviews that I

306
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,760
Speaker 3: did over the years, old journal entries, old Instagram posts

307
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,440
Speaker 3: that the director dug up, and then there was obviously

308
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,119
Speaker 3: writing consultants there, and contributors were part of that that

309
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 3: I really fought hard to be a part of because

310
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 3: I wanted our community's voice to be within the fabric

311
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,159
Speaker 3: of this film. I wanted this film to really be

312
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 3: for us, by us. That was the pure intention behind it.

313
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:22,679
Speaker 3: But then you bring in these institutions, these perceptions, and

314
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:28,400
Speaker 3: then the eventual fallout that became public, and then you

315
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 3: match that with like any unresolved conflict, and we all

316
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:38,639
Speaker 3: know that unresolved conflict turns into resentment, right, And then

317
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 3: I think that just bubbled up into a lot of

318
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,439
Speaker 3: my pastors and came to the surface. A lot of

319
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,240
Speaker 3: stuff that should have been handled privately that I should

320
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:54,119
Speaker 3: have initiated, matched with something that was taken publicly that

321
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 3: I learned my lesson from the past of being an

322
00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 3: avoidant person trying to find the healthiest avenue resolution within

323
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,239
Speaker 3: now this realm of my life. I was like, all right,

324
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 3: I learned my lesson of being super afraid of conflict.

325
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,640
Speaker 3: You know. I did the personal deep work to understand

326
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 3: why I have these traumas surrounding conflict and what that's

327
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 3: rooted in, and then how can I apply that to

328
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 3: my life as a person, in my interpersonal relationships, to

329
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 3: my professional relationships. And I'm like, all right, bet.

330
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 1: We're going to continue hearing from Doris, but before that,

331
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 1: a word for more sponsors and we're back.

332
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 2: I'm really interested in the detail about like the releases

333
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,760
Speaker 2: and the contracts that everybody signed. You're talking about you

334
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 2: signed the same releases as everybody else. And that is

335
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 2: something that I remember seeing specifically in the comments and

336
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 2: the posts, was these statements of like almost an expectation

337
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,920
Speaker 2: that you counsel people. I remember saying to the USA,

338
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 2: like it's fast, these comments specifically about the contracts, because like,

339
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,439
Speaker 2: at least to my understanding, in the state of California,

340
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 2: in order to give someone legal advice or review a

341
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,159
Speaker 2: contract with them, you have to have a license to

342
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,120
Speaker 2: practice the law. Like you're not allowed to give legal

343
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 2: advice if you're not a lawyer, you know, like point

344
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 2: blank period. So that in particular stood out to me

345
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 2: about like the flavor of the call out, so to speak.

346
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 2: Why do you think folks had this expectation that, like

347
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 2: you review their contracts for them?

348
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 3: I think as the position I used to hold, you know, yeah,

349
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,120
Speaker 3: as a manager as a producer, you know, I mean

350
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:42,880
Speaker 3: not a producer of the film, but like I used

351
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 3: to produce concerts and events and things, right, and so

352
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 3: the position that I held in a lot of these

353
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 3: folks life was like very differently, right, Like I was

354
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 3: a supervisor amongst my own peers, you know, for a

355
00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 3: long chapter of my life. And now with this film

356
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 3: it also ushered in like the artists like chapter of

357
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 3: my life where I like then delegate these things right

358
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 3: to my team. So that way, I mean we all

359
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 3: know this is like I think you both as creatives

360
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 3: to understand this where saame things you both cannot touch,

361
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 3: you know, you cannot handle. I will say there was

362
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 3: one contract of artist I used to manage that then

363
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 3: technically I facilitated because I had to pass that over

364
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 3: to his attorney to green light that. Then my assistant

365
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 3: at that time then confirmed to get him to sign

366
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 3: and then pass that over. And that's like, that was

367
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 3: one of the things that I want to post receipts

368
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 3: of and things like that that I knew that at

369
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 3: that time was not going to help me either way.

370
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 3: Like it was it was in too deep. Like if

371
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 3: I tried to post anything and be like, oh, meet up,

372
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 3: look what she's trying to do, you know, And you know,

373
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 3: I think to usher in some kind of like transformative

374
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 3: justice language. Like that's called the feeding frenzy. That's the

375
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 3: mob mentality that everyone wants to just like jump in

376
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 3: on it and like contribute there. They're lucky alos to do.

377
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 3: They want to throw their stone.

378
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 2: The pilon is We've seen year after year, time after time,

379
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 2: pilon after pylon, and it's very it's there's a predictability

380
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 2: to it.

381
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: You know.

382
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 2: It's like once that spark is lit, like it's a

383
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 2: wildfire now. And I think what was also fascinating to

384
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 2: me is at the end of all of it, like

385
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 2: and we're reading and we're looking, and we couldn't figure

386
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 2: out what happened, you know, like because it was very

387
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 2: sort of like it seemed very personal and there was

388
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: not an explicit to my knowledge, there was no explicit

389
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: like I was hired and promised to get paid this much,

390
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 2: I did my job, and then I wasn't paid, Like

391
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 2: there was nothing as straightforward as that, you know. So

392
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 2: like I'm so like was there just to like ask

393
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 2: the question and like get the clarity, Like was there

394
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 2: someone who was promised to get paid to do a

395
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 2: job who fulfilled the job and then didn't get paid.

396
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 3: No, Like I'm I learned my lesson where it's like

397
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 3: yu right, Like I wanted to see that. I'm like,

398
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 3: all right, anyone who hasn't had an invoice paid stand up,

399
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 3: you know, like please post your receipt of like of

400
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 3: countless emails or something that you've been chasing me something,

401
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 3: you know, I think. Yeah, like I said, it got

402
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 3: very convoluted with a lot of nuance of situation by situation,

403
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 3: whether it was the film or my past as a

404
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 3: manager or my present as an artist and the question

405
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 3: that y'all are both asking about what happened. A lot

406
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 3: of people ask that, and I even asked that because

407
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 3: we ushered in a transformative justice process right to reach

408
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 3: out to every single person that made any post, you know,

409
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 3: a statement, and only one person showed up.

410
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: We asked Doors to connect us with the one person

411
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: who participated in the transformative justice process, but due to

412
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 1: confidentiality reasons, it was not possible. We also asked to

413
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: speak with the mediator, but they're on sabbatical. The firm

414
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,719
Speaker 1: stors hired is MMG Earth, an award winning research and

415
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: change management firm that helps people in the private and

416
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: public sectors transform their communities and global societies.

417
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: How many invitations would you say you sent out how

418
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 2: many invites?

419
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 3: When I first started, I started with like a priority five,

420
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 3: like these are five of priority. These are the people

421
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 3: who took a really firm stance online. And then I

422
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 3: did another layer, Like we did layer by layer as

423
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 3: we first started to debrief, right, I mean, we'll get

424
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 3: into what a transformative justice process looks like. But yeah,

425
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 3: we reached out to countless people, you know, I think,

426
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 3: like even people that I saw like like a comment

427
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 3: and I'm like, do we have to talk about anything?

428
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: You know?

429
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 3: I really wanted to cover my all my basis when

430
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 3: it came to that, But I only had a conversation

431
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 3: with one person. In that conversation, I had to be

432
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 3: split into two sessions to really fully understand. And what

433
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 3: I gathered from that conversation is the same thing that

434
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 3: like a friend of mine who had a conversation with

435
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 3: the same and have the same sentiments of like, well,

436
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 3: what did happen? You know, And even after having that conversation,

437
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 3: it's like, well, that could have been a phone call.

438
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 2: And I also this is also interesting to me because

439
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 2: I think like in our like little creative community, the

440
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 2: word that the word that we've been using more is

441
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 2: call in. And I'm curious, like, why do you think

442
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 2: that you received a call out as opposed to a

443
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 2: call in? And what were they asking of you? What

444
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 2: was the ask What did the folks who called you

445
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: out want to see from you? What did they request

446
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: from you? There was no call to action. I think

447
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 2: it was like a full like removal of community. I

448
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 2: think it's just like to like.

449
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 3: Air whatever they needed to air out and be like

450
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 3: I guess more like a warning like or I do

451
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 3: know a warning like a this was my experience with

452
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 3: this person, and but I'm not gonna be clear about

453
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 3: what it was, but this is this is what it

454
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 3: what it was on. No, it's even trying to explain it.

455
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm stumbling over my words because there wasn't.

456
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 3: It's it's still confusing to me because I didn't have

457
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 3: the conversations that I wish I got to have.

458
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: Did you hope that people would have said yes to

459
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: this transformative justice process? Is mediation of the five that

460
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: you reached out to? Oh?

461
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean especially the five because those five were

462
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 3: like definitely, like I think the pillars of like what

463
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 3: lit the fire right and for it to come to

464
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 3: my attention in such a way, and then the trickle

465
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 3: down of all the things. But like absolutely, I mean

466
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 3: I financially invested in this transformative justice process. This isn't

467
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 3: free for me to do my due diligence, right, I'm like, Okay,

468
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 3: it came to this point, Well, if my politic that

469
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 3: I've lived through as an abolished and this is going

470
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 3: to like now apply to my own life in the situation,

471
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 3: then I need to like live by that. Yeah, and

472
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 3: write it out and follow through and so yeah, absolutely,

473
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 3: I mean like I will at the end of the day,

474
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 3: I think that transformative justice process like then liberated me,

475
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 3: like allowed me to liberate myself and to step out

476
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 3: of like solitude. But yeah, I would have loved to

477
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 3: have understood completely where people felt wronged, or for me

478
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 3: to then be able to say to their face, like,

479
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 3: you know, to take accountability and to apologize for any

480
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 3: in all ways that I've harmed them, and to understand

481
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 3: what is that call to action for me to do better,

482
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 3: to do this right for them? Right, like what can

483
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 3: I do to make this right?

484
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: Did you get no responses or did you just did

485
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: you get flat out nos, I'm not participating in this.

486
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 3: It was a mixed bag. I think some of them

487
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 3: were like I am interested, but I don't know if

488
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 3: I can another there one was like a very hateful response.

489
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 3: A lot of them were no response. The majority of

490
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 3: them was just zero response. And with like, I made

491
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 3: sure that we did multiple follow ups on each one,

492
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 3: so it wasn't just like one email was sent town

493
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 3: like Okay, you didn't respond by you know, like I was.

494
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 3: I was quite persistent and I try to find ways

495
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 3: where I'm like, okay, Like I think we need to

496
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 3: like walk people through what a transformative justice process is.

497
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 3: So like even for folks to understand. It's like, you know,

498
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 3: you work with a facilitator to be able to then

499
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 3: debrief with you to understand what's happening. That facilitator can

500
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 3: then speak to like to begin like a transformative justice

501
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 3: circle process. Right, you offer an opportunity for this process

502
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 3: to begin. A transformative justice facilitator then speaks with the

503
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 3: person on the other side, first speaks to you, and

504
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 3: then you come together, right. And I think it's very

505
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 3: much outlining like the community agreements of like this is

506
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 3: not a form of punishment. This isn't going to be

507
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 3: like a place of like where like more harm can

508
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 3: be caused, right, And I mean the amount of people

509
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 3: that we reached out to, Yeah, I wish I wish

510
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 3: we got to fully step in to it.

511
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: What would you say to someone who, well, who who

512
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 2: might feel will Doris you know, collaborated with all these

513
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: creatives and got this huge platform and like leveraged her

514
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 2: artistic community like for her own success. I think that's

515
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 2: like a vibe, that's like a feeling, right that You've

516
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: undoubtedly hurt yourself absolutely. You know, what, what do you

517
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: or would you say to like a statement like that.

518
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 3: I think that's the part that hurt the most because

519
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 3: it was people that I broke bread with, that I

520
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 3: collaborated with out of like pure intention of I think

521
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 3: anyone who deeply knows me and my heart knows that,

522
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 3: like I've always been rooted in like wanting this to be,

523
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,479
Speaker 3: this industry to be as like for us, by us

524
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 3: as possible, and for us to all like build more

525
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 3: room at the table for because there's enough room for

526
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 3: all of us to eat. I've never been a competitive person.

527
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 3: I've never like thought to even put anyone down to

528
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 3: put myself ahead, and I think, like I can say

529
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 3: that with my whole chest. That's my character, that's who

530
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 3: I am. And every single person that I collaborated with

531
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: either it was like a friend or I think honestly

532
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 3: most of who posted it there were people who were

533
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 3: like former friends of mine, and especially of what was

534
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 3: said specifically about the film that I use this film

535
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 3: and like the use these collaborators in order to leverage

536
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,479
Speaker 3: myself as like some celebrity. So like let's take it

537
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 3: back years years ago, the version of Doris who like

538
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 3: sacrificed herself and was the people pleaser and put herself

539
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 3: last us to like such an unhealthy place in or

540
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 3: to like put on put everyone else on right. I

541
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 3: was like running wild to make everyone else's career happen.

542
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden, the pandemic happened, and

543
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 3: then my life changed a lot for me to then

544
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 3: finally be like, Okay, maybe I can prioritize myself, maybe

545
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 3: I can make some dreams happen for myself too. Who

546
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 3: knows how that's going to play out, but like, let's

547
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 3: let's see, because I'm not going to regret this when

548
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 3: I'm older for like not trying. And so saying yes

549
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 3: to the film at that time was the hope of

550
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 3: telling our story to help millions of other families who

551
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: have also been separated at the border of family members

552
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 3: been deported, they're waiting for their residency to come. And

553
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 3: at that time, as a manager, when I said yes

554
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 3: to the film, so like, all right, amazing, this is

555
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 3: gonna be a platform to put on the whole community

556
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 3: of creatives. I was always the pure intention, the root

557
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 3: of it all. And then where I went down the line,

558
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: like I never came from a place of like, Haha,

559
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 3: I'm going to use this person for what they're worth

560
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 3: to continue advancing into life, Like I don't move that way,

561
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 3: and if the if I'm going to be perceived that way,

562
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 3: then I have to accept that and that, like, I

563
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 3: think that's one of those things that like get like

564
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 3: you know what you've done and what you meant to

565
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 3: do or your intentions were. Obviously things can go astray,

566
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 3: and that's where like where things need to be made

567
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 3: very clear. I know that at the end of the day,

568
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 3: I think, like my track record proves to like the

569
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 3: years of work that I made sure to position everyone

570
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 3: else to keep eating, to keep their careers flourishing, and

571
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 3: to the point where then it turned on me. And

572
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 3: I never like I think people think I had this

573
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 3: master plan of like, Okay, yeah, I'm going to like

574
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 3: all of a sudden ditch my career on the industry

575
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 3: side of things in order so I can like strategize

576
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 3: myself into a position of whatever receiving the spotlight all

577
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 3: of a sudden, very honestly that was thrust upon me.

578
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 3: The film found me in ways that like you can't

579
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 3: even make up like I didn't pitch myself to be

580
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 3: the protagonist of a documentary, and then when it came

581
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 3: to the point of last year of working as an

582
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 3: independent artist, I think anyone who is a creative and

583
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 3: even folks who I know who had opinions about me,

584
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 3: I know they're not getting They're playing people like full

585
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 3: rates what they would pay for, like a brand would

586
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 3: pay for.

587
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 2: Like absolutely everybody is doing homing rates and doing work

588
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 2: for free and labor swaps exactly. We call that collaboration

589
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,720
Speaker 2: and building community and et cetera, et cetera. Keep listening

590
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 2: to look at thra. We've got more in store after

591
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 2: these messages.

592
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: And we're back.

593
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 2: I'm curious to Doris, So you hire the Transformative Justice

594
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 2: Facilitators and you're doing outreach to everybody who posted or

595
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 2: engaged online with the call out in some way, those

596
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 2: who didn't accept the invitation or who didn't participate in

597
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 2: the Transformative Justice conversation. Did you receive, like from any

598
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 2: of those people, an unpaid invoice. Did anyone send you

599
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 2: an invoice for things that they didn't get paid for?

600
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 2: Did anyone send a request for credit that they didn't

601
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 2: receive that they were promised for work. They know people

602
00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 2: listening want to probably have these questions. Also, was there

603
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 2: was there any other follow up from the folks that

604
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: posted asking for something more or other than transformative justice?

605
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 3: No, No, I think I think it was made very

606
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 3: without me even have to say, I think it was

607
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 3: made very clear what people just wanted to do and

608
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 3: what do you think that was? It is funitive forms

609
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 3: of justice that we even socially conditioned to participate in.

610
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 3: Whether it's shame removing people from community, right, if we

611
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 3: think about traditional forms of incarceration, right, you remove someone

612
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 3: did something bad, right, and instead of whether it's engaging

613
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 3: with them with like mental health support or mediation or

614
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 3: things that abolitionists believe in, right, they're then sent they're imprisoned, right,

615
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 3: and they were removed from community and any ability to

616
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 3: then advance their life in any way at that time.

617
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 3: That's the that's the punishment, right. There wasn't Yeah, there

618
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,240
Speaker 3: wasn't a call to action of life. We want Doris

619
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 3: to do this, or she did this, so she's owes this,

620
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 3: or we're calling her in to heal this and to

621
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 3: have conversations about this because she's avoiding this. It was

622
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 3: just a lot was thrown at the public community board

623
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 3: for everyone to read and scroll.

624
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 2: As we talk about this, Like in our podcasting career,

625
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 2: we have had our own our own call ins and

626
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: call outs. We've had our own experiences, like people have

627
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: gotten mad at us for different things over the years

628
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 2: in different capacities, And we've had our own own experiences

629
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 2: with what starts as a DM leads to like twelve emails,

630
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 2: you know, like calling us every name in the book,

631
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 2: like these things. We haven't been without our own, and

632
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 2: we've done episodes and we've addressed issues when there's been

633
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 2: a call out or a call in, like we've you know,

634
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,439
Speaker 2: we've we've dealt with our own things, I think, as

635
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 2: everybody probably does at one point or another in their

636
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 2: artistic careers and in collaborating and building. And I just

637
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 2: want to throw that out there and say that we

638
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: have had our own our own fuck ups and our

639
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 2: own issues, you know, in our own time, you know,

640
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 2: interpersonally creatively here and there, Like these things happen, you know,

641
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 2: So I want to own that too and claim that,

642
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: you know, and I think the only way that these

643
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 2: things have ever been resolved with us is like we've

644
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 2: that talking one on one with those folks who are

645
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 2: upset with us. It's never been resolved on Twitter or

646
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 2: in Instagram comments or in the stories, like nothing has

647
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 2: for us ever been resolved that way. I find that

648
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 2: year after year, the men, the Latino men, or mask

649
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 2: presenting people in our communities often you know, can get

650
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 2: away with a lot of things and are not held

651
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 2: to the same standard over and over again. And I

652
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 2: also find that very fascinating. This is a pattern in

653
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 2: our community, in our creative community, in our transformative justice,

654
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 2: anti carcil, abolitionist, all the self imposed labels, by the

655
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 2: way that we anoint ourselves with, like we knite ourselves

656
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 2: with these titles, you know. And years ago, right les

657
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: caa Feteiras had a big call out online and that

658
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: was a more severe call out. Those accusations were very specific.

659
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 2: A former band member who did come forward was really

660
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 2: giving very detailed examples of abuse and controlling behavior during

661
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 2: band practice, et cetera, et cetera. Right, this was years ago,

662
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 2: and I remember there was a lot of promises on

663
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 2: their end, for like we're going to do a town hall,

664
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 2: We're going to do this. I don't think any of

665
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 2: that ever happened.

666
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: None of it happened, at least to our knowledge. It

667
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: was painted as a public forum, we're having a community

668
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: town hall. Whether that happened privately, we don't know.

669
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 3: Yes. I think when I wasn't thick of what I

670
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 3: was going through, I was receiving calls text messages from

671
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 3: loved ones who really just wanted to make sure I

672
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 3: was okay, especially because if they know me and my

673
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 3: journey with mental health and things like that, they just

674
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 3: wanted to like me to like reiterate, like your life,

675
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 3: we still need you, you know. And one of them

676
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 3: specifically was said shared his own experience with like his

677
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 3: company going through ushering like a restorative justice, transformative justice

678
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 3: peer process, and he had said that there needs to

679
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 3: be more transformative justice survival stories and I need you

680
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 3: to be one of them. And I think that just

681
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 3: like is what carried me through this whole last year

682
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 3: of like all right, I am not going to let

683
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 3: this kill me first and foremost, but I think I've

684
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 3: also accepted that the things that have happened in my

685
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 3: life have ushered me into this purpose of like being

686
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 3: like a living testimony, whether it was like the documentary

687
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 3: or me sharing my story along the way that led

688
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 3: into the documentary. And then I hid away for some

689
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 3: for a long time, and I felt like my voice

690
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 3: didn't matter anymore, that my life didn't matter anymore, that

691
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 3: my story didn't matter anymore. And then like slowly but

692
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 3: surely have been receiving like little arthangel messages and reminders

693
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 3: that they all absolutely do and now to finally be

694
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 3: in a place to like share that experience for I mean,

695
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 3: I don't think everyone's going to go through what I

696
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 3: went through. I don't wish this upon anyone, but I

697
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 3: think another friend told me that resonated with me to

698
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 3: like close the loop on this thought, is that, like

699
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 3: she what she saw happened to me felt like a

700
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 3: social experiment to see how people within the community responded

701
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 3: to this and for her to understand who to trust

702
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 3: and not to trust.

703
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 2: And to be very clear, you know, this is not

704
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 2: about like victims of violence coming forward and sharing their story, right.

705
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 2: This is this very gray area where, like we've been

706
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 2: talking about all episode, it's very vague, it's unclear, it

707
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: seems very personal. They're asking for things like for you

708
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 2: to review their legal contracts that you literally are not

709
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,240
Speaker 2: allowed to do. You know, like there are these things

710
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 2: that make this type of a call out, Like we

711
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 2: can talk about it on its own, right, Like don't

712
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 2: go like if you're listening, don't go out there, and

713
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 2: oh you're victim blaming. Nobody sent in an invoice for

714
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 2: unpaid funds. It sounds like nobody asked for credit that

715
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 2: they didn't receive. It sounds like and when the offer

716
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 2: for transformative justice was given, they didn't participate, right, Like

717
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 2: that's a standalone that's its own thing. But I feel

718
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 2: like sometimes what happens is over the years, we've seen

719
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: this too. People can create an entire sort of brand

720
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 2: for themselves as like social conscious, community oriented like leaders

721
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 2: by participating in a drag or a call like that's

722
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: how some people make a name for themselves.

723
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 3: I think this is hard, you know. I think that

724
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 3: this was a moment, the thing of that divided a

725
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 3: lot of folks within our community. I had to accept

726
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 3: that I became this like polarizing figure, if you will.

727
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 3: I know that a lot of people look to me

728
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 3: in a different way and held me at a different

729
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 3: standard than most. And it was like, yeah, my own

730
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 3: peers who then participate in something like this, But now

731
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 3: that we're here a year later, it's like, what what

732
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 3: did that do? Is the big question?

733
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: I think A really what I'm curious about as a

734
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: way to kind of close out this conversation, because you've

735
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: laid out you know what happened, the steps you took,

736
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,240
Speaker 1: and now you know you're performing, you're releasing this EP.

737
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: What does rebuilding trust look like for you?

738
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 3: Just have a ooh, really to trust my intuition stronger

739
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 3: than ever before. I have a higher level of discernment,

740
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 3: cross my t's, dot my eyes, double check, triple check everything,

741
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 3: have very very clear conversations with every single person that

742
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 3: I work with, and accepting that not everyone is for

743
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 3: me and I'm not for everyone. I had to accept that,

744
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 3: like a lot of folks that were surrounding me that

745
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 3: I thought were my friends, that called me family. Well,

746
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 3: then have the capability to turn around and literally the

747
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 3: next day, like one person was with me the night

748
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 3: that I happened, the next day they were posting about me. Yeah,

749
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 3: so if that can happen the and I can assume

750
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 3: anything can happen, right, And I don't want to be

751
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 3: I was so closed off for some time, and I

752
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 3: was so depressed and I felt extremely alone. I isolated

753
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 3: myself even more in Mexico, like I went to go

754
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 3: heal and process all of the things that just happened

755
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,439
Speaker 3: to me, because like what happened online was paired with

756
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 3: like a really bad breakup and betrayal too, and I

757
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 3: had to like fight my own or just to want

758
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 3: to like punish as well. I think, like what this

759
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 3: whole process teaches you is like how you want to

760
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 3: then punish the people that have harmed you as well.

761
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 3: I could have gone and but I didn't because I

762
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 3: had to believe that other people are capable. You have

763
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,479
Speaker 3: to believe that people are capable to grow and heal

764
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 3: and do better.

765
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for every person that you know posts and

766
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:59,479
Speaker 2: participates in a call out like that, there's somebody else

767
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 2: that has receipts on you, that has an issue with you,

768
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 2: that has a gripe with you. I feel, you know,

769
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 2: that's saying that you're a villain in somebody story, you

770
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And sometimes it's just a matter

771
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 2: of sometimes people are choosing not to come and talk

772
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: about you in public, but it's not because they don't

773
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,280
Speaker 2: have a reason to, you know. I think everybody, everybody

774
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 2: has their their demons and their issues with somebody else,

775
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 2: you know, And so it's a choice ultimately, right, Like

776
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 2: whether you air out the personal issue publicly or whether

777
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,919
Speaker 2: you reach out and talk about it one on one.

778
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 2: It's a choice.

779
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, And again to reiterate what you said that this

780
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 3: exception is victims of violence, Like, let's be very clear

781
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 3: on that. I think I do believe sometimes it doesn't

782
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 3: have to get to a point where women have to

783
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 3: keep each other safe, right and they're warning each other

784
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 3: of like abusive men. For so let's let's minimize like

785
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 3: all the DV cases possible.

786
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: Right.

787
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 3: But when it's yeah, this vague, nuanced area, it's like

788
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 3: this very gray area, what what can we do to

789
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 3: try to to move forward as a community of Like

790
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 3: we the countless conversations that I have had about this,

791
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 3: people were asking, well, yeah, like what did the community

792
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 3: do for like aftercare?

793
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 1: I think that it's it's a lot harder to actually

794
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 1: walk the talk and actually implement the praxis and not

795
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: just the theory that we always talk about here on

796
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 1: look at Thought Radio. If you made it this far,

797
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: thank you for listening, and we will catch you next time.

798
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 2: Lok A Thought our radio A Radio Fang Novela is

799
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 2: executive produced and hosted by Me Mala Munos and Viosa.

800
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: Fam Story editing by Me Fiosa.

801
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 2: Audio editing by Stephanie Franco.

802
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 1: Thank you to our locomotives, our listeners for all of

803
00:47:54,880 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: your SUPPORTA