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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey there, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: It's the latest episode of the Book of Joe Podcast

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Speaker 1: with me, Tom Berducci and of course Joe Madden and Joe.

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Speaker 2: It's weird that here we.

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Speaker 1: Are in late March and we're talking about free agents,

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Speaker 1: but Blake Snell has finally signed. How about that, Blake

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Speaker 1: Snell going to the Giants. Give me your first reaction

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Speaker 1: when you heard about the news that Blake Snell is

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Speaker 1: going to be a Giant.

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Speaker 3: Good spot for him. I mean, if I'm a pitcher,

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Speaker 3: I want to play there. I'm a free agent pitcher.

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Speaker 3: If they like me enough and they want to pay

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Speaker 3: me enough, I'd like to pitch there. I'd like to

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Speaker 3: pitch in San Francisco. It's a rub a much better

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Speaker 3: pictures park than a hitters park, obviously, So that made

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Speaker 3: all the sense in the world to me. And like,

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Speaker 3: even you know, defensively, they should be in a pretty

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Speaker 3: good spot this year. Yeah, I like it. I think

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Speaker 3: you know, we've talked about being a West Coast guy.

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Speaker 3: The weather are you know, similar some ways to Seattle.

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Speaker 3: I thought it made sense. So I think that you know,

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Speaker 3: from the Giant perspective quietly having a good offseason. So

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Speaker 3: I thought I thought it was a good sign for

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Speaker 3: the Giants.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you talked about the off season for the Giants. Wow,

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Speaker 1: you know, think about this. They get Jorge Hilaire, Matt Chapman,

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Speaker 1: and Blake Snell all on I think below market deals

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Speaker 1: because they waited because markets just didn't develop for those guys.

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Speaker 1: I'm really surprised by the way, Joe, that Blake Snell

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Speaker 1: is signing a two year deal for sixty two million dollars.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, he gets fifteen million dollars this

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Speaker 1: year and as seventeen million dollars signing bonus in January

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty six, so they've actually reduced the present

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Speaker 1: value of that contract. He can opt out after the

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Speaker 1: first year if he comes back, it's for about thirty million.

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Speaker 1: I mean, listen, clubs love to have these deals, Joe,

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Speaker 1: of short term deals, especially for pitchers. And think about

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Speaker 1: Blake Snell. This guy at thirty one in his platform season,

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Speaker 1: heading into free agency, wins his second Cy Young Award,

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Speaker 1: pitched great for the Padres, and this guy has to

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Speaker 1: sign a reduced contract. I mean, he doesn't have enough

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Speaker 1: value out there. I mean last year you had Carlos

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Speaker 1: Rodin with the Yankees get six years and one hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixty two million dollars. Blake Snell is much more

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Speaker 1: durable and a better track record, a better pitcher than

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Speaker 1: Carlos Rodin the market never developed for Blake Snell. I

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Speaker 1: am shocked. The Giants got themselves a bargain. And now

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Speaker 1: Blake Snell, if he pitches two years in San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: you know next time he's a free agent. He's thirty

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Speaker 1: three years old. And this was peak value Blake Snell,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't get peak value on the market.

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Speaker 2: I get it.

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Speaker 1: The market looked at him and said, this guy doesn't

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Speaker 1: throw enough strikes. He's an outlier. Folks, he led the

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Speaker 1: league in era and walks try to do that. That's

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Speaker 1: hard to do, right, I think it happened once before

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Speaker 1: in history. He erases his mistakes with a with breaking

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Speaker 1: stuff that is out of this world. And Joe, I know,

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Speaker 1: as you a manager, you're watching your guy throw BALI

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Speaker 1: he put people on with walks. He's a different cat

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Speaker 1: because you just punch out the next guy. He pitches

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Speaker 1: around walks. I know you're not supposed to do that.

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Speaker 1: But just look at his track record.

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Speaker 3: I lived with Maddie Moore, that's Matti Mo. Matty Mo

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Speaker 3: was like that with the rays. Oppressively good stuff, great stuff,

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Speaker 3: very difficult to hit. But he did walk a lot

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Speaker 3: of folks. But it was walks and stricoss. There was

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Speaker 3: no hits. People get on base. They had a really

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Speaker 3: hard time squaring them up and driving runs in putting

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Speaker 3: the ball out of the ballpark. It was very difficult

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Speaker 3: against Maddy Moore. So there's a lot of similarities between

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Speaker 3: these two guys as they pitch and their command or

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Speaker 3: lack of it. And look what happened to Matty Mo.

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Speaker 3: Matti Mo right now. Wow, he's totally turned this whole

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Speaker 3: thing around. And I guess part of what I want

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Speaker 3: to insinuate there is the fact that as Blake Snow

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Speaker 3: gets older, you might see an uptick in command. Overall.

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Speaker 3: I think that's all potentially part of the equation. But

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Speaker 3: after having said all that, I do believe and I

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Speaker 3: don't know Matt Blake Snell at all. I don't know him,

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Speaker 3: but I do believe personality played into this somewhat. I

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Speaker 3: think he scares people off somewhat, And I think Rodin's

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Speaker 3: contract last year and how that worked out similarly, that

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Speaker 3: kind of a personality, just not sure. It's not the

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Speaker 3: kind of guy. I think that some groups wanted to

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Speaker 3: bet all that money on. So there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: underlying components of this. I think that nobody will ever

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Speaker 3: admit to regarding why they did not want to sign him,

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Speaker 3: or eventually why he did get signed, or how he

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Speaker 3: got signed. But all these things, our factors are in

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Speaker 3: play again these organizations. The way it works today, everybody's

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Speaker 3: after the same guy, and then thus everybody's going to

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Speaker 3: be not after the same guy. And I think there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of that interaction going on that kind of

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Speaker 3: kind of like scared teams off of him, just based

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Speaker 3: on how he is, what he talks, how he speaks,

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Speaker 3: how he I saw some of the videos of him

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Speaker 3: working with kids, and I thought it was great. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it looked like he was really into it. But again,

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Speaker 3: I just don't know that everybody quite understands him. I

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Speaker 3: think bow Mail does, and that's a good call for them.

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Speaker 3: I think Bobby might be able to extract the most

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Speaker 3: out of Snow going into the season and Furthermore, he's

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Speaker 3: got to feel like he has something to prove. I mean,

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Speaker 3: even though he's got a nice contract that's a lot

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Speaker 3: of money, but it's it's not the rinks robbery that

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Speaker 3: he wanted to eventually get. So there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: chicken left on the bone for next year and years

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Speaker 3: to come. So there's a lot of things working here,

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Speaker 3: a lot of dynamics working here that I think only

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Speaker 3: so much has talked about it, reported upon, But I

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Speaker 3: think it's pretty complex.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, if personality, character, make up, whatever you want

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Speaker 1: to call it as part of the equation, I think

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Speaker 1: the industry is misreading this guy. He's got a stuff,

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Speaker 1: There's no question about it. I talked about his breaking stuff. Overall,

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Speaker 1: batter's hit ninety three against his breaking stuff. He gave

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Speaker 1: up only twenty two hits all year on his slider

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Speaker 1: and curveball with two strikes he throws his breaking ball,

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Speaker 1: hitters hit sixty six. And how about a guy on

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Speaker 1: second base, rounders in scoring position, and he's got two

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Speaker 1: strikes on you, and he throws a breaking ball. The

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Speaker 1: batting average against Blake Snell last year was oh, nineteen,

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Speaker 1: that's not one ninety that's nineteen. This guy has been

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Speaker 1: an ACE for a long time. I know people looked

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Speaker 1: at his track record they think he's a five inning guy. Listen,

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Speaker 1: he averaged more innings per start than Dylan Cees. Guess

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Speaker 1: who was number one in average pitches per start in

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Speaker 1: the major.

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Speaker 2: Leagues last year. Blake Snell.

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Speaker 1: Guess who threw the most one hundred pitch games in

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Speaker 1: major leagues last year?

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Speaker 2: Blake Snell.

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Speaker 1: Guess who was fifth in quality starts last year. Blake Snell.

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Speaker 1: He's not a five inning guy.

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Speaker 2: I get it.

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Speaker 1: He's the industry has changed where guys aren't asked to

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Speaker 1: pitch the seventh.

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Speaker 2: Day of the ninth innings. I get that.

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Speaker 1: And he's because he's a strikeout guy. He's gonna run

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Speaker 1: up pitch counts. But the fact is, and this is

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Speaker 1: what a manager told me, Joe, when you're preparing to

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Speaker 1: face Blake Snell, you know, as a manager, you're working

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Speaker 1: your lineup a series or two in advance. You're trying

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Speaker 1: to find out where you can give a guy a

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Speaker 1: day off when you need to put your a team

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Speaker 1: out there. Blake Snell, this manager told me, is a dude.

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Speaker 1: You have to prepare for you really have to adjust

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Speaker 1: your lineup knowing you're facing Blake Snell, Jordan Montgomery who's

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Speaker 1: still not signed. Not that kind of a guy. He's

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Speaker 1: a Dwardo Rodriguez. He's a good pitcher. He's not a

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Speaker 1: difference maker. He's not a swing and miss guy. One

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Speaker 1: more thing on Blake Snell since twenty seventeen, basically his

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Speaker 1: first full year.

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Speaker 2: I'll look back at the lowest era.

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Speaker 1: How many pitchers have started one hundred and fifty games,

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Speaker 1: so you need to be durable, and the lowest era

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Speaker 1: among that group, so seven seasons, here's what you have.

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Speaker 1: Lowest era past seven years. Clayton Kursch, Justin Verlander, Max Schurzer,

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Speaker 1: Garrett Cole, Blake Snell. That's elite. The Giants got themselves

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Speaker 1: an elite starter on a two year deal. And please

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Speaker 1: stop saying that he's a five inning guy. Puts one

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Speaker 1: hundred and eighty innings last year.

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Speaker 2: He's not.

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Speaker 3: I listen, I've seen him from the dugout, the other dugout.

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Speaker 3: It's really it's nasty. It's very good. Saw. I'm with

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Speaker 3: the Rays down here. I think it was with the

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Speaker 3: Cubbies yet and believe me, it's oppressive. It is. It

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Speaker 3: is that good. And when you talk about that kind

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Speaker 3: of break the ball again, I mean as a manager,

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Speaker 3: somebody sitting in a dugout or even somebody sitting upstairs,

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Speaker 3: the walks really drive you absolutely insane, put your defense

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Speaker 3: to sleep. And then like you're talking about the the

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Speaker 3: fact that he's not going to go more deeply into

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Speaker 3: the games. Now, that's that has been part of his

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Speaker 3: past from a distance a little bit too kind of

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Speaker 3: like I mean, I've already talked about Maddie Moore, I

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Speaker 3: could even say Scott Casmer. I mean, these are the

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Speaker 3: kind of guys with the kind of stuff that that

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Speaker 3: there are. They are going to walk sometimes, they are

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Speaker 3: going to miss the zone. They're going to get like

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Speaker 3: really way outside the zone sometimes, but people don't square

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Speaker 3: them up. And I didn't realize to what level or

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Speaker 3: extent his breaking ball was that elite. I mean, I've

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Speaker 3: seen it. Like I said, it's it's ridiculous. It's it's

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Speaker 3: that good. It is that good as fastball and his delivery.

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Speaker 3: I think there's an uncomfortable component to hitting against him.

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Speaker 3: All this stuff causes a hitter to want to get

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Speaker 3: ready sooner, get it going sooner all this stuff which

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Speaker 3: then plays into making the ball breaking ball even better

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Speaker 3: than that. So he does, He's got a lot of

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Speaker 3: great stuff. I'm just saying, I don't know. This is

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Speaker 3: my opinion from a distance. I just think people I

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Speaker 3: don't know if they were scared off by that, if

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Speaker 3: they're just trying to, you know what Scottie Boris is,

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Speaker 3: trying to teach them a lesson somewich is ridiculous. But

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Speaker 3: there's there's some things underlying things going on there that

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Speaker 3: nobody really wants to fess up to. That I think

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Speaker 3: scared a lot of teams off, like the Yankees. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think roundn't I see there? Could they were? They

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Speaker 3: were probably concerned about getting another one of those. I

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Speaker 3: think that was part of the conversation. I would bet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, the Yankees did make him supposedly an offer they

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Speaker 1: did get in it. It was actually below Redon money,

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Speaker 1: with probably in the twenty five to twenty seven million

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Speaker 1: dollars a year range, and he was not going to

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Speaker 1: take that. I mean, his market is above Carlos Redon.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if Blake Snell truly wanted New

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Speaker 1: York anyway. I was told that he really wanted Seattle,

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Speaker 1: that's where he's from. Seattle, like Texas, just has not

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Speaker 1: had money to spend throughout this winter because a lot

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Speaker 1: of uncertainty about their RSN situation. So Seattle was really

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Speaker 1: never a player. He wound up on the West coast.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that was a preference. But New York did kick

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Speaker 1: the tires, did make something of an opening offer. It

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Speaker 1: did not go anywhere, and that's when they pivoted to

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Speaker 1: Marcus Stroman, and they were not getting back into the

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Speaker 1: game at that point because after the Stroman signing and

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Speaker 1: a couple other things the Yankees did, they're well over

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Speaker 1: the last payroll threshold luxury tax threshold, so signing Blake

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Speaker 1: Snell there'd be one hundred and ten percent tax levy.

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Speaker 1: Blake Snell would have become a sixty million dollars a

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Speaker 1: year pitcher for the Yankees. So that wasn't gonna happen

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Speaker 1: at that point. But they did kick the tires. I

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Speaker 1: don't think they felt maybe Blake Snell didn't feel it

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Speaker 1: was a great fit. And again I think at that

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Speaker 1: point in the winter early the contract offer wasn't what

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Speaker 1: he was looking for. And again kudos to the San

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Speaker 1: Francisco Giants. Because they hung in there. They got themselves

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Speaker 1: a really good pitcher. And how about this now, Joe,

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Speaker 1: If you're the Giants, You've got Logan Webb who finished

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Speaker 1: second to Blake Snell in the Cy Young Race last year.

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Speaker 1: Logan Webb, Blake Snell. You've got Alex Cobb coming back

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Speaker 1: a lot earlier than people think, probably by May. You've

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Speaker 1: got Kyle Howard Harrison, really good young left handed pitcher.

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Speaker 1: I like this guy a lot. I think he's gonna

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Speaker 1: have a breakout season. And you've got Robbie Ray coming

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Speaker 1: back in the second half of the season. Remember they

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Speaker 1: picked him up from Seattle. He's recovering from surgery. That

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Speaker 1: is a dynamic rotation and the Giants got something going here.

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Speaker 1: And if these guys, and I do think they'll get

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Speaker 1: healthy at some point in the season. And having those

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Speaker 1: reinforcement in the second half of the season, I think

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Speaker 1: the Giants became a handful.

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Speaker 2: I think they're a contender now for a playoff spot.

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Speaker 3: So they definitely have weapons on the mound to mitigate

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Speaker 3: possibly the Dodgers too. And that was a big that's

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Speaker 3: a big part of their potential success this year. No question.

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Speaker 3: So when they line up, you go into town and

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Speaker 3: that's their starting three or four. This is our starting

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Speaker 3: three or four. They got to feel decent about that,

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Speaker 3: and that's really what you need to be able to

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Speaker 3: do to beat that group down south there. So that's

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Speaker 3: that box has been checked. And I'll say this, I

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Speaker 3: do believe everything here and everything we're talking about right

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Speaker 3: and everything I've read, I'm curious. I think still has

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Speaker 3: a chance to have a tremendous season based just on motivation.

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Speaker 3: Motivation for how this all came down this year. I'm

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Speaker 3: just thinking, person, I definitely would have a chip on

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Speaker 3: my shoulder about this. Go about it in a way

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Speaker 3: that your focus has got to be extraordinary. It's there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of good stuff. And again I Bob Melvin

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Speaker 3: being there with him, having had that familiarity from last year.

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Speaker 3: I think it's gonna matter. I think all that matters,

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Speaker 3: and in pitching in that ballpark.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all good points. I'm with you.

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Speaker 1: I think Blake's got to be disappointed because, like I said,

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Speaker 1: he wins the cy Young in his platform season, it

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Speaker 1: just doesn't have a market develop And I do think

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Speaker 1: he turned a corner last year. It was around May

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Speaker 1: last year with San Diego, when he stopped worrying about

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Speaker 1: the walks. You know, people have tried to turn Blake

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Speaker 1: Snell into a strike thrower. He's just not that kind

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Speaker 1: of a pitcher, comes right over the top, you know.

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Speaker 1: He just guys don't swing in his breaking stuff and

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Speaker 1: they do chase it with two strikes. I'll give him that,

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Speaker 1: but he's going to always have high pitch counts because

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Speaker 1: hitters can't be aggressive. He's not sentering the ball up

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Speaker 1: in the middle of his own he's not attacking with

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Speaker 1: and that breaking ball is tough.

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Speaker 2: To get called a strike as well.

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Speaker 1: So I think he reached a point where he said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, walks, I'm not going to stress about them.

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Speaker 2: What I'm going to do is get the next guy out.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that's when he went off and

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Speaker 1: for San Diego had an incredible run. And I think

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Speaker 1: if your giants, Joe, I think you look at that,

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Speaker 1: you say that's who he is.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: You know, he reached a point where he's accepted the walks.

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Speaker 1: You still don't love him, you're not trying to walk people,

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Speaker 1: but they don't rattle him, they don't bother him, and

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Speaker 1: I think the Giants, and you've made a good point

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Speaker 1: about Bob Melbourn. I don't think they're going to change

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Speaker 1: this guy or try to change this guy and try

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Speaker 1: to turn him into a strike thrower. Just let him

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Speaker 1: be and make sure that you know he's got the

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Speaker 1: confidence to get that next guy out after the walks.

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Speaker 3: A little bit more, one more comp here when you're

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Speaker 3: talking about that, because I do believe in that stuff,

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Speaker 3: the fact that by saying, you know, listen, go ahead,

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Speaker 3: a paradoxical intent good and walk as many people as

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Speaker 3: you want to. Go ahead, go ahead and walk folks.

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Speaker 3: And I think because of that concept alone, he's going

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Speaker 3: to walk less. I did that with Scottie Casimier years ago,

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Speaker 3: and gosh, I'm just drawing all these comparisons, but yeah,

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Speaker 3: I guys like that. When you tell him not too

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Speaker 3: or try not to whatever, it can turn into exactly

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Speaker 3: the opposite. And John Lester, you made me think about

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Speaker 3: this with the stolen bases. I remember finally taking him

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Speaker 3: out in the backfield there at Sloan was me, him,

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Speaker 3: Anthony Rizzo and Contreras and the pitching coach, and I said, okay,

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Speaker 3: you know, regarding this throwing over the first spase done,

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Speaker 3: we don't need to do that. Let's just forget about

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Speaker 3: that completely. Let's do what you can do well, and

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Speaker 3: which would be And I said, quite simply, you could

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Speaker 3: hold the ball, you can step off, you can quick step,

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Speaker 3: or you could pitch out. Those are your options. Throwing

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Speaker 3: the first base is no longer an option to consideration.

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Speaker 3: So if we just focus on those things and understand

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Speaker 3: with Wilson beyond the plate backpicking at first base, with

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Speaker 3: Anthony doing is we had Anthony do the maddingly thing,

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Speaker 3: get off the bag, come back, et cetera. And when

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Speaker 3: you do that, when you're able to do that with

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Speaker 3: John and John could put all. My point was to

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Speaker 3: get your focus to home plate only, period. That's it.

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Speaker 3: Don't you do. Not worry about throwing the first base.

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Speaker 3: That's our concern. And I really think that helped clear

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Speaker 3: them up a little bit at the end and gave

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Speaker 3: it some kind of definition we all want. We all

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Speaker 3: have like these difficult moments in our life most of

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Speaker 3: the time, we just need some definition to be able

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Speaker 3: to move forward. And so I think there's some parallels there.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I love that concept.

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Speaker 1: Joe just kind of reducing the mental strain and let

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Speaker 1: a guy be an athlete and allowing that freedom to

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Speaker 1: let athleticism take over certainly worked out for John Lester.

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Speaker 1: He actually he actually was tougher to run on than

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Speaker 1: most pitchers. He's better than average at holding runners. It's counterintuitive,

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Speaker 1: but I think the system you came up with helped

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Speaker 1: him get to that point.

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Speaker 3: Well, is David Ross and Wilson. I mean, you have

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Speaker 3: to really you have to have like for that to

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Speaker 3: work for me. Johnny, first of all, is a great athlete.

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Speaker 3: Johnny Lester is a tremendous athlete, so he knows what

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Speaker 3: he's doing out there. But you have to have catchers

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Speaker 3: that are not afraid to throw. And the backpick had

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Speaker 3: to be huge, because if a runner was caught in

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Speaker 3: between whether to go or not, got out in no

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Speaker 3: man's land, the ball's coming down in first space. And

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Speaker 3: even to the point, like I said, the pitchot or

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Speaker 3: even in elevated away fastball that we could work with

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Speaker 3: as a catcher and throw the ball where you want to.

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Speaker 3: So all those that little nuance, all of that played

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Speaker 3: into that one day he did pick off Tommy Fann

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Speaker 3: God to place with nuts. He just invobbed on over

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Speaker 3: there and family was in no man's land. But when

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Speaker 3: she became convicted in the plan and knew exactly what

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Speaker 3: he wanted to do, which I it sounds to me

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Speaker 3: like Snell is. At that point you become more successful.

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Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break, Joe, and we

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Speaker 2: come back.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about another major signing this week,

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Speaker 1: and it's especially important to me.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about that next cool well, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw in the news, but

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Speaker 1: now there is a new operator of Sports Illustrated.

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Speaker 2: That will continue to publish the magazine.

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Speaker 1: After lots of rumors and angst over the last few

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Speaker 1: months about whether SI would even exist, Minute Media now

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Speaker 1: has the licensing rights to publish the magazine, which is

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Speaker 1: obviously great news for anybody in the business, anybody who's

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Speaker 1: been a fan of SI, which this year is is

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Speaker 1: hitting the seventieth anniversary, and it's my thirty first year

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Speaker 1: with Sports Illustrated. There's not too many still around when

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Speaker 1: I started the magazine, but it's great news.

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Speaker 2: And it's time for our.

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Speaker 1: Baseball Preview issue, which is out this week and has

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Speaker 1: none other than Shohei Otani on the cover. Of course,

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Speaker 1: right I was able to sit down and do the

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Speaker 1: exclusive interview with shoey Otani And this is what SI

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Speaker 1: does and what's done for years, is it's going to

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Speaker 1: give you the stories you.

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Speaker 2: Can't find anywhere else.

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Speaker 1: And that cover of SI is still one of the

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Speaker 1: most coveted pieces of real estate in the sports industry.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you I was on the cover once,

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Speaker 1: the only writer featured on the cover of the magazine.

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Speaker 1: It's when I spent spring training with the Toronto Blue

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Speaker 1: Jays and wrote about my experience playing and to this day,

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Speaker 1: and that was gosh. That was back in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five. I think people send me covers to sign.

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Speaker 1: It's just amazing that there's this culture out there that

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Speaker 1: honors the tradition and what the cover means to the magazine.

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Speaker 1: So such a cool thing to know that the magazine

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Speaker 1: and of course the website, but especially the print magazine

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Speaker 1: will continue. Joe, You've got to have some SI in

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Speaker 1: your background growing up as a kid.

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Speaker 2: A Joe Namath cover.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it might be, but everybody has

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Speaker 1: sort of favorites that stand out.

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Speaker 3: Brother, I got it every week, you know, and my

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Speaker 3: high school baseball coach used to always talk about, now

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Speaker 3: it's time for baseball to come back to the front

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Speaker 3: of the sporting news. When it got to the spring,

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Speaker 3: you know, specifically, was it was Richie Allen on the cut.

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Speaker 3: That was Sports Illustrated magazine. When he's there flipping the

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Speaker 3: juggling the baseball, smoking a cigarette walking into dugout in Chicago, right,

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Speaker 3: that was Dick Allen doing. That was in that Sports Illustrated. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean that's when I was such a big Dick

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Speaker 3: Allen fan. My god, I I thought he was the best,

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Speaker 3: one of the best hitters I've ever witnessed. And I

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Speaker 3: got to meet him personally one time and had a

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Speaker 3: great conversation with him. So all of that, Yes, the

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Speaker 3: thing I used to love again, And of course this

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Speaker 3: is dating myself and people might, you know, whatever, But

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Speaker 3: I love the idea that the information wasn't as ubiquitous

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Speaker 3: as it is now. I had to like work to

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Speaker 3: go get that Sports Illustrated or have it sent to

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Speaker 3: me in the mail and had to wait on it

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Speaker 3: or the magazine itself when that would come out. And

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Speaker 3: there's there's little like the kids, the people in the

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Speaker 3: back and the last page or something, those that the

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Speaker 3: up and comers always wanted to read. Who those people were?

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Speaker 3: Everything about Sports Illustrated was magical, it really was, And

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Speaker 3: so the cover would be Dick Allen for me. Also

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Speaker 3: the Dope Book. You remember, I used to like put

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Speaker 3: together these books of stats and information. I think it

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Speaker 3: was called the Dope Book, if I'm not mistaken, regarding

432
00:20:53,838 --> 00:20:56,838
Speaker 3: baseball stats on an annual basis. And I also would

433
00:20:56,838 --> 00:21:00,438
Speaker 3: get the NBA Guide from them, and I would look

434
00:21:00,438 --> 00:21:02,718
Speaker 3: through all the different arenas, how much did its seat,

435
00:21:02,718 --> 00:21:05,078
Speaker 3: where was it located? I still we'll have to make

436
00:21:05,078 --> 00:21:07,158
Speaker 3: a visit to the cal Palace, just because that's where

437
00:21:07,158 --> 00:21:09,478
Speaker 3: the word used to play back in the day with

438
00:21:09,558 --> 00:21:14,158
Speaker 3: Nate Thurmot and Jeff Maullin and Rick Berry, etc. All

439
00:21:14,158 --> 00:21:16,438
Speaker 3: this stuff. Yeah, like you're talking about it, and I'm

440
00:21:16,478 --> 00:21:20,078
Speaker 3: just like getting infiltrated with all these different worm fuzzies.

441
00:21:20,118 --> 00:21:24,718
Speaker 3: I had about that magazine in the newspaper spectacular man.

442
00:21:24,758 --> 00:21:29,238
Speaker 3: And again, I know you're never going back, and I

443
00:21:29,318 --> 00:21:31,238
Speaker 3: know the speed of information is what it is, but

444
00:21:31,278 --> 00:21:34,918
Speaker 3: there was something cool about having to wait several days

445
00:21:34,958 --> 00:21:36,758
Speaker 3: to get the next copy and then sitting down and

446
00:21:36,878 --> 00:21:38,038
Speaker 3: absolutely devouring it.

447
00:21:38,238 --> 00:21:40,718
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, I get the whole speed of information right.

448
00:21:40,718 --> 00:21:44,398
Speaker 1: Everybody wants it now, if not sooner, and they want

449
00:21:44,398 --> 00:21:44,878
Speaker 1: it quickly.

450
00:21:45,318 --> 00:21:45,838
Speaker 2: I get it.

451
00:21:45,918 --> 00:21:48,078
Speaker 1: I mean, I always say, the worst acronym that's been

452
00:21:48,078 --> 00:21:54,198
Speaker 1: invented in a world of acronyms is tld R too

453
00:21:54,238 --> 00:21:59,598
Speaker 1: long didn't read. People just don't have the diligence, the discipline,

454
00:21:59,598 --> 00:22:03,478
Speaker 1: if you will, or even the curiosity to sit down

455
00:22:03,478 --> 00:22:05,558
Speaker 1: with something that would take even five or ten minutes

456
00:22:05,598 --> 00:22:05,958
Speaker 1: to read.

457
00:22:06,118 --> 00:22:08,798
Speaker 2: Not talking about Moby Dick, I mean.

458
00:22:08,998 --> 00:22:11,918
Speaker 1: We're talking about people just sitting down and actually enjoying

459
00:22:11,958 --> 00:22:14,678
Speaker 1: something and losing themselves in a story. In the craft

460
00:22:14,678 --> 00:22:17,478
Speaker 1: of writing, I still think that happens. I acknowledge it

461
00:22:17,558 --> 00:22:20,598
Speaker 1: doesn't happen nearly as much as it did, but there's

462
00:22:20,638 --> 00:22:22,758
Speaker 1: still a place for that. And that's what I love

463
00:22:22,798 --> 00:22:26,038
Speaker 1: about Sports Illustrated. I'm telling you, you can read a story

464
00:22:26,038 --> 00:22:31,078
Speaker 1: that was in Sports Illustrated ten, fifteen, thirty, seventy years ago,

465
00:22:31,558 --> 00:22:34,878
Speaker 1: and you know what, it still resonates. It's like classical music.

466
00:22:35,038 --> 00:22:38,438
Speaker 1: Did people stop listening to Mozart or Vivaldi? No, hundreds

467
00:22:38,478 --> 00:22:40,678
Speaker 1: of a year later they still are. But are people

468
00:22:40,718 --> 00:22:43,398
Speaker 1: going to be reading tweets? Ten years from now, ten

469
00:22:43,438 --> 00:22:47,998
Speaker 1: seconds from now. No, we live in an entirely disposable society,

470
00:22:48,038 --> 00:22:49,958
Speaker 1: and there still has to be a place for things

471
00:22:49,998 --> 00:22:53,798
Speaker 1: that last, that have some resonance to them and not

472
00:22:53,998 --> 00:22:56,038
Speaker 1: just of the moment. And I get it. That's what's

473
00:22:56,118 --> 00:22:58,878
Speaker 1: driving our culture. There's nothing wrong with it. But there

474
00:22:58,958 --> 00:23:03,078
Speaker 1: still has to be a place for reflection and sitting

475
00:23:03,118 --> 00:23:05,958
Speaker 1: down with something that actually has some substance to it.

476
00:23:05,958 --> 00:23:09,678
Speaker 1: It's nourishment, it's mental nourishment. Do you want potato chips

477
00:23:09,678 --> 00:23:13,078
Speaker 1: and soda every day? No, Sometimes you need your vegetables

478
00:23:13,118 --> 00:23:14,078
Speaker 1: and your fruit as well.

479
00:23:14,518 --> 00:23:16,718
Speaker 3: On the money, I mean, Scotti, Harrison. I had that

480
00:23:16,758 --> 00:23:19,238
Speaker 3: same conversation in the manager's office. I don't know if

481
00:23:19,238 --> 00:23:22,038
Speaker 3: it was in Cincinnati, whatever, Almost exactly what you just

482
00:23:22,798 --> 00:23:25,918
Speaker 3: talked about, and the subject matter was me because I

483
00:23:25,958 --> 00:23:28,478
Speaker 3: was so disappointed. I'm so disappointed in myself in the

484
00:23:28,478 --> 00:23:31,558
Speaker 3: mid seventies, when I'm in the minor leagues riding buses

485
00:23:31,598 --> 00:23:35,678
Speaker 3: in quad cities or from quad cities to wherever that's Stavenport, Iowa,

486
00:23:35,878 --> 00:23:38,798
Speaker 3: or Salinas, or even as a manager in Midland, Texas

487
00:23:38,878 --> 00:23:41,758
Speaker 3: or Ido Falls whatever. Long bus rides, man, I mean

488
00:23:41,838 --> 00:23:45,798
Speaker 3: long time on the bus, I would devour books. I

489
00:23:46,558 --> 00:23:51,438
Speaker 3: probably read a book, a novel, one at least one

490
00:23:51,478 --> 00:23:54,158
Speaker 3: every two weeks at the most. At the most, every

491
00:23:54,238 --> 00:23:56,158
Speaker 3: night they come back from a game. I'd lie in

492
00:23:56,238 --> 00:24:01,278
Speaker 3: bed and I read myself to sleep every night. Bus trips,

493
00:24:01,558 --> 00:24:04,518
Speaker 3: every trip with like this horrible lighting. Probably why my

494
00:24:04,518 --> 00:24:07,638
Speaker 3: eyes aren't that good anymore. But I did that all

495
00:24:07,878 --> 00:24:11,278
Speaker 3: the time, and I could not wait to get back

496
00:24:11,518 --> 00:24:15,678
Speaker 3: at night to read. I don't do that anymore. I've tried.

497
00:24:16,398 --> 00:24:18,238
Speaker 3: I've tried, and just being honest, I've tried to do

498
00:24:18,318 --> 00:24:21,798
Speaker 3: that for everything you're talking about. The speed. Didn't want

499
00:24:21,798 --> 00:24:23,558
Speaker 3: to take the time to read that. I just I

500
00:24:23,598 --> 00:24:26,838
Speaker 3: speed read everything. I jumped from sentence to sentence per paragraph.

501
00:24:27,078 --> 00:24:28,838
Speaker 3: I don't just sit there and devour. Once in a

502
00:24:28,878 --> 00:24:32,478
Speaker 3: while and something really captures my interest, that will slow

503
00:24:32,478 --> 00:24:35,678
Speaker 3: it down and suck it all up. And I'm good

504
00:24:35,678 --> 00:24:40,198
Speaker 3: at that. But brother, I would pick a book every

505
00:24:40,238 --> 00:24:43,678
Speaker 3: week or two weeks and kill it. From Mitchner to

506
00:24:43,878 --> 00:24:49,878
Speaker 3: Conroy h to Richard north Patterson to Greg Isles to

507
00:24:50,558 --> 00:24:55,358
Speaker 3: Leon Juris, I would devour these people. And I'm grateful

508
00:24:55,478 --> 00:24:57,478
Speaker 3: at least I had that moment, because I do believe

509
00:24:58,238 --> 00:25:01,678
Speaker 3: I know it's probably made me somewhat more interesting, but

510
00:25:01,718 --> 00:25:05,638
Speaker 3: it definitely has somehow cause my mind to grow and

511
00:25:05,838 --> 00:25:09,318
Speaker 3: permits me to look at things, analyze them differently, or

512
00:25:09,398 --> 00:25:12,398
Speaker 3: just a wider scope of understanding, because I definitely believe

513
00:25:12,398 --> 00:25:15,718
Speaker 3: I've been able to study both sides of situations. So

514
00:25:16,158 --> 00:25:19,158
Speaker 3: if I had one wish, just one for me, it'd

515
00:25:19,198 --> 00:25:21,238
Speaker 3: be that I would become the voracious reader that I

516
00:25:21,278 --> 00:25:23,798
Speaker 3: once had been, and I was able to slow things down.

517
00:25:23,838 --> 00:25:24,838
Speaker 3: That would be my wish.

518
00:25:25,078 --> 00:25:27,798
Speaker 1: Well, you're not alone, Joe, I mean, listen to the studies

519
00:25:27,798 --> 00:25:32,838
Speaker 1: have shown that our brains literally are being rewired to

520
00:25:33,078 --> 00:25:37,798
Speaker 1: work more quickly and to devour information quickly. It's been

521
00:25:37,838 --> 00:25:41,838
Speaker 1: retrained by the constant attention to screens and the constant

522
00:25:42,158 --> 00:25:46,638
Speaker 1: you know, flipping over and just skimming things, as you mentioned.

523
00:25:47,038 --> 00:25:51,078
Speaker 1: So it does take discipline, and it's sort of like

524
00:25:51,318 --> 00:25:53,918
Speaker 1: you know, you know, whether it's your nutrition or your

525
00:25:53,918 --> 00:25:56,478
Speaker 1: fitness or something, it's something you have to pay attention

526
00:25:56,518 --> 00:25:58,758
Speaker 1: to because if you leave yourself to your own devices,

527
00:25:58,798 --> 00:26:02,798
Speaker 1: with your brain getting rewired, you're not going to have

528
00:26:02,918 --> 00:26:06,398
Speaker 1: that time to elasticity. The plasticity of your brain and

529
00:26:06,758 --> 00:26:10,078
Speaker 1: thoughts and ideas and become, you know, basically a person

530
00:26:10,678 --> 00:26:15,358
Speaker 1: who can think clearer and wider, so without getting too

531
00:26:15,398 --> 00:26:18,158
Speaker 1: far down the rabbit hole. As I started this, Yeah,

532
00:26:18,198 --> 00:26:20,198
Speaker 1: I want to bring it back to show Hey Otani

533
00:26:20,278 --> 00:26:23,398
Speaker 1: because everything comes back to him, right, Joe, He's now

534
00:26:23,798 --> 00:26:26,238
Speaker 1: beginning when he comes back from Soul Korea, we'll begin

535
00:26:26,318 --> 00:26:27,278
Speaker 1: a throwing program.

536
00:26:27,318 --> 00:26:29,398
Speaker 2: He's going to be in the Dodger rotation next year.

537
00:26:29,598 --> 00:26:31,598
Speaker 2: You know what the arm is like? Who knows.

538
00:26:31,598 --> 00:26:34,798
Speaker 1: We'll wait and see. But for this year, he's a

539
00:26:34,918 --> 00:26:37,838
Speaker 1: dh Only we're talking about a guy who last year

540
00:26:37,958 --> 00:26:40,998
Speaker 1: won the home run title essentially without playing the last

541
00:26:41,038 --> 00:26:44,318
Speaker 1: month of the season. I think show has become a

542
00:26:44,438 --> 00:26:47,998
Speaker 1: much better hitter, a much more dangerous hitter. He's covered

543
00:26:48,038 --> 00:26:51,398
Speaker 1: up some holes he had on the fastball up and in. Joe,

544
00:26:51,398 --> 00:26:54,238
Speaker 1: would not surprise me if show Hey hits close to,

545
00:26:54,358 --> 00:26:56,998
Speaker 1: if not more than, sixty home runs this year. I

546
00:26:57,038 --> 00:26:59,198
Speaker 1: know that's a huge number, and you know, I hate

547
00:26:59,198 --> 00:27:01,998
Speaker 1: putting a huge numbers on people, but I've learned with

548
00:27:02,078 --> 00:27:03,838
Speaker 1: show Hey, you don't put a ceiling on.

549
00:27:03,758 --> 00:27:04,438
Speaker 2: What he can do.

550
00:27:05,038 --> 00:27:08,678
Speaker 1: And I think in that lineup, not having to pitch

551
00:27:08,758 --> 00:27:11,038
Speaker 1: that every fifth or sixth day, going out there in

552
00:27:11,078 --> 00:27:14,078
Speaker 1: the strain and just the even the mental prep taking

553
00:27:14,118 --> 00:27:16,958
Speaker 1: that out of the equation, just go hit each night

554
00:27:17,078 --> 00:27:20,318
Speaker 1: as a DH man, I think he's going to have

555
00:27:20,518 --> 00:27:24,118
Speaker 1: an enormous season for the Dodgers, And yeah, probably I

556
00:27:24,158 --> 00:27:25,918
Speaker 1: think he's going to hit a career high, probably at

557
00:27:25,998 --> 00:27:27,158
Speaker 1: least fifty home runs.

558
00:27:27,598 --> 00:27:30,318
Speaker 3: No, I can't argue that we talked about this one

559
00:27:30,358 --> 00:27:32,838
Speaker 3: other time, and I think that I had mentioned the

560
00:27:32,918 --> 00:27:36,198
Speaker 3: fact that he's not pitching and just focusing on one thing.

561
00:27:36,238 --> 00:27:39,758
Speaker 3: It sounds simply like it's going to be better. But

562
00:27:40,038 --> 00:27:43,718
Speaker 3: the distraction of having to pitch also work in his favor.

563
00:27:43,838 --> 00:27:48,318
Speaker 3: I don't know if it had. He will make the adjustment. Eventually,

564
00:27:48,358 --> 00:27:50,758
Speaker 3: he will make the adjustment. The thing you're talking about

565
00:27:50,758 --> 00:27:53,398
Speaker 3: for me that I've noticed he is so willing now

566
00:27:53,398 --> 00:27:55,318
Speaker 3: to go to the opposite field with two strikes and

567
00:27:55,358 --> 00:27:57,278
Speaker 3: he'll take that little blooper to left to get there

568
00:27:57,358 --> 00:28:00,078
Speaker 3: to drive in the run. I'm seeing that right now.

569
00:28:00,518 --> 00:28:03,878
Speaker 3: Just really just a bright, bright major league baseball player.

570
00:28:04,518 --> 00:28:06,118
Speaker 3: And the big thing for me is protection in the

571
00:28:06,158 --> 00:28:09,998
Speaker 3: batting God. He's not going to be able to circumvent

572
00:28:10,078 --> 00:28:13,558
Speaker 3: that do all that unless they do not permit the

573
00:28:13,598 --> 00:28:16,638
Speaker 3: other team's circument, the lineup in him and picture of

574
00:28:16,678 --> 00:28:18,838
Speaker 3: those that they want, so they seem like they have

575
00:28:18,918 --> 00:28:22,438
Speaker 3: a the depth necessary. I'm just curious where they start

576
00:28:22,478 --> 00:28:24,958
Speaker 3: him in the lineup. I think they're talking three right now.

577
00:28:24,958 --> 00:28:27,158
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's right or not. I'd have

578
00:28:27,198 --> 00:28:30,318
Speaker 3: to look at that more closely, because that's not for me.

579
00:28:30,398 --> 00:28:33,438
Speaker 3: I would not necessarily do that just looking at it

580
00:28:33,518 --> 00:28:37,038
Speaker 3: from a distance. Having Freeman behind him I think would

581
00:28:37,038 --> 00:28:40,878
Speaker 3: be optimal. But we'll see again. I haven't studied them enough,

582
00:28:40,918 --> 00:28:43,878
Speaker 3: but I just know that whoever's sitting behind him has

583
00:28:43,918 --> 00:28:45,918
Speaker 3: to be formidable enough to make sure that they do

584
00:28:46,038 --> 00:28:48,278
Speaker 3: go after him. And I know, you know, analytically a

585
00:28:48,318 --> 00:28:50,078
Speaker 3: lot of people don't believe in that stuff, but I'm

586
00:28:50,078 --> 00:28:51,838
Speaker 3: telling you, man in the other dugout.

587
00:28:51,478 --> 00:28:52,078
Speaker 2: It's huge.

588
00:28:52,358 --> 00:28:54,278
Speaker 3: And if you want to do the give him the

589
00:28:54,358 --> 00:28:56,998
Speaker 3: Bryce Harper treatment in a really big series, it's possible,

590
00:28:57,478 --> 00:29:00,558
Speaker 3: just depending on how toasty he actually is. But I

591
00:29:00,918 --> 00:29:04,038
Speaker 3: think his propensity now or his ability you're willing to

592
00:29:04,118 --> 00:29:06,838
Speaker 3: go to the opposite field when it's necessary, is huge.

593
00:29:07,318 --> 00:29:09,238
Speaker 3: He hits the high fastball, but you like you talked

594
00:29:09,238 --> 00:29:12,438
Speaker 3: about the elevated in fastball, but the protection I'm just

595
00:29:12,478 --> 00:29:13,838
Speaker 3: curious about that. I got to watch that.

596
00:29:14,158 --> 00:29:14,438
Speaker 2: Well.

597
00:29:14,598 --> 00:29:17,038
Speaker 1: Dave Roberts is thinking like you, because he's going to

598
00:29:17,078 --> 00:29:19,558
Speaker 1: go mookie starting out in the one hole Show Hey

599
00:29:19,598 --> 00:29:23,318
Speaker 1: at two, Freddie Freeman at three, and Will Smith at four.

600
00:29:24,118 --> 00:29:25,198
Speaker 2: I love that as well.

601
00:29:25,318 --> 00:29:28,798
Speaker 1: You need protection for Show Hey, and Freddie Freeman is

602
00:29:29,038 --> 00:29:32,358
Speaker 1: such a good hitter with a great hitter with runners

603
00:29:32,398 --> 00:29:36,798
Speaker 1: on base. You know, let the traffic build for Freddie Freeman.

604
00:29:36,918 --> 00:29:40,358
Speaker 1: And actually Will Smith is an unbelievable good hitter with

605
00:29:40,478 --> 00:29:43,438
Speaker 1: runners in scoring position, much better with brothers in scoring

606
00:29:43,478 --> 00:29:44,398
Speaker 1: position than overall.

607
00:29:44,518 --> 00:29:45,318
Speaker 3: I love him, so.

608
00:29:45,398 --> 00:29:47,798
Speaker 2: I love the setup of the lineup. Show Hey will

609
00:29:47,838 --> 00:29:48,718
Speaker 2: take his walks.

610
00:29:49,638 --> 00:29:52,158
Speaker 1: And if you're thinking because of the three batter rule,

611
00:29:52,198 --> 00:29:54,438
Speaker 1: you're making it easy for a lefty to come in

612
00:29:54,478 --> 00:29:56,518
Speaker 1: and face Show Hey and Freddie back to back.

613
00:29:56,998 --> 00:29:59,118
Speaker 2: Forget it. I mean Freddie hits lefties.

614
00:29:59,238 --> 00:30:01,198
Speaker 1: He almost He's told me the past he loves when

615
00:30:01,238 --> 00:30:04,118
Speaker 1: they bring in lefties to face him because if Horse

616
00:30:04,158 --> 00:30:05,958
Speaker 1: is sitting to keep his front side in longer, he

617
00:30:05,998 --> 00:30:09,638
Speaker 1: actually becomes a better hitter against lefties. So you're not

618
00:30:09,798 --> 00:30:12,038
Speaker 1: really playing into the hands of the other manager by

619
00:30:12,078 --> 00:30:13,598
Speaker 1: having those two lefties back to back.

620
00:30:13,638 --> 00:30:15,278
Speaker 2: And I do agree. I'm with you, Joe.

621
00:30:16,038 --> 00:30:18,438
Speaker 1: I like the idea of Freddy behind show Hey as

622
00:30:18,518 --> 00:30:21,398
Speaker 1: protection and he's going to hit with a ton of

623
00:30:21,478 --> 00:30:22,278
Speaker 1: guys on base.

624
00:30:22,838 --> 00:30:25,278
Speaker 3: One other thought I had had I didn't know a

625
00:30:25,318 --> 00:30:28,118
Speaker 3: couple of years ago is problematic. Mooki was having trouble

626
00:30:28,118 --> 00:30:29,678
Speaker 3: with lefties a couple of years ago. That was a

627
00:30:29,678 --> 00:30:31,518
Speaker 3: big deal when they were uh. I think it was

628
00:30:31,598 --> 00:30:34,358
Speaker 3: the twenty twenty World Series right when you know the

629
00:30:34,438 --> 00:30:36,438
Speaker 3: lefty and Snell and all that other good stuff. So

630
00:30:36,518 --> 00:30:38,518
Speaker 3: I don't know where he's at with that right now.

631
00:30:38,558 --> 00:30:40,558
Speaker 3: See if he went and left right left, it was

632
00:30:40,598 --> 00:30:43,758
Speaker 3: like even show Mooki and Freeman, then you're then you're

633
00:30:43,758 --> 00:30:47,318
Speaker 3: feeding Mooki possibly, And I don't know if that's important

634
00:30:47,398 --> 00:30:49,158
Speaker 3: or not. That's that's my point. I'm not around them

635
00:30:49,238 --> 00:30:51,638
Speaker 3: enough to know that. So if there's like a lefty

636
00:30:51,678 --> 00:30:55,318
Speaker 3: that or lefties out of a bullpen that at Betts Kills,

637
00:30:56,038 --> 00:30:57,918
Speaker 3: it might be wise to set up a show in

638
00:30:57,918 --> 00:31:00,198
Speaker 3: the first because you don't care. He's gonna He's gonna

639
00:31:00,198 --> 00:31:02,078
Speaker 3: be the same dude regardless of where you put him.

640
00:31:02,078 --> 00:31:03,518
Speaker 3: So that would be the only thing that would be

641
00:31:03,558 --> 00:31:05,318
Speaker 3: left for me to really study whether or not to

642
00:31:05,358 --> 00:31:07,918
Speaker 3: put bets in the two hole. And furthermore, I mean,

643
00:31:08,158 --> 00:31:09,878
Speaker 3: was he gonna get more fastballs with show he going

644
00:31:09,918 --> 00:31:12,758
Speaker 3: to do on the basis just all it provides presents

645
00:31:12,798 --> 00:31:15,838
Speaker 3: a lot of opportunities for movement. And I don't even

646
00:31:15,878 --> 00:31:18,918
Speaker 3: know how willing or wanting they're going to be in

647
00:31:18,958 --> 00:31:21,278
Speaker 3: that position also to want to do those kind of things,

648
00:31:21,278 --> 00:31:23,158
Speaker 3: But that'd be the only thing left for me. Do

649
00:31:23,198 --> 00:31:25,918
Speaker 3: you like Mooki in the second to feed him if

650
00:31:25,918 --> 00:31:28,758
Speaker 3: he's actually really getting on lefties today these days?

651
00:31:28,998 --> 00:31:30,918
Speaker 1: Well, I know you had some injuries when you were

652
00:31:30,918 --> 00:31:34,078
Speaker 1: with the Angels, but when you had Trout and shoe Hey,

653
00:31:34,398 --> 00:31:36,278
Speaker 1: what was the thinking there right there?

654
00:31:36,438 --> 00:31:39,078
Speaker 3: I really wanted Mikey to protect show Hey as opposed

655
00:31:39,118 --> 00:31:41,158
Speaker 3: to the other way around. I didn't think that anybody

656
00:31:41,158 --> 00:31:44,678
Speaker 3: else could. And my whole thing too with hitting show

657
00:31:44,718 --> 00:31:46,878
Speaker 3: Hey leadoff when I was there, was that I wanted

658
00:31:46,878 --> 00:31:48,878
Speaker 3: the whole lineup to protect him. It depends on how

659
00:31:48,918 --> 00:31:50,998
Speaker 3: deep you are by putting show You number one. I

660
00:31:51,038 --> 00:31:53,438
Speaker 3: really thought he had an entire lineup protecting him, which

661
00:31:53,438 --> 00:31:58,238
Speaker 3: was necessary there. Mikey and know needs to stay well

662
00:31:58,278 --> 00:32:00,038
Speaker 3: and he was hurt a lot during that time. Too,

663
00:32:00,078 --> 00:32:03,878
Speaker 3: but if Trotty stays well, I wanted him to protect show.

664
00:32:04,638 --> 00:32:07,798
Speaker 3: And furthermore, when Mike wasn't available, I wanted the whole

665
00:32:07,798 --> 00:32:09,278
Speaker 3: lineup to protect him. And that's why I liked the

666
00:32:09,358 --> 00:32:11,718
Speaker 3: number one. I don't know how much of an de

667
00:32:11,798 --> 00:32:13,958
Speaker 3: turn it actually was, but that was part of my

668
00:32:13,998 --> 00:32:14,718
Speaker 3: thought process.

669
00:32:15,038 --> 00:32:17,518
Speaker 1: The Dodgers, Joe, they're just as you mentioned, They're deep.

670
00:32:17,678 --> 00:32:20,958
Speaker 1: Just behind you Will Smith, You've got Max Muncie and

671
00:32:21,078 --> 00:32:23,438
Speaker 1: Josh Autman. I mean, the list goes on and on.

672
00:32:24,678 --> 00:32:26,998
Speaker 1: I do have to ask you, though, about Mooky Betts

673
00:32:27,078 --> 00:32:29,238
Speaker 1: and the commitment the Dodgers have made to him as

674
00:32:29,238 --> 00:32:32,078
Speaker 1: their shortstop. Yeah, listen, Gavin Lux must have been that

675
00:32:32,238 --> 00:32:35,118
Speaker 1: bad at shortstop for the Dodgers to make this move.

676
00:32:35,878 --> 00:32:37,678
Speaker 1: I have a ton of respect for Moky. I love

677
00:32:37,758 --> 00:32:40,558
Speaker 1: the fact that he wants to do this. He's a

678
00:32:40,638 --> 00:32:43,958
Speaker 1: great athlete who loves a challenge in his heart. He's

679
00:32:43,998 --> 00:32:47,038
Speaker 1: always been a shortstop position he had growing up. But

680
00:32:47,118 --> 00:32:49,438
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting that Miguel Rojas had an

681
00:32:49,478 --> 00:32:53,158
Speaker 1: interesting observation about learning to play shortstop. He said, it

682
00:32:53,238 --> 00:32:56,518
Speaker 1: really is a position that requires a lot of communication,

683
00:32:56,838 --> 00:32:59,998
Speaker 1: a lot of thinking pre pitch to be in the

684
00:33:00,038 --> 00:33:03,198
Speaker 1: right spot. So give me your thoughts on making this

685
00:33:03,278 --> 00:33:07,238
Speaker 1: switch halfway through spring training and having Mooky play shortstop

686
00:33:07,278 --> 00:33:08,958
Speaker 1: and Gavin Lux going over to second base.

687
00:33:09,718 --> 00:33:11,398
Speaker 3: I was, I mean, I've never seen him do it.

688
00:33:11,438 --> 00:33:13,878
Speaker 3: I've been you know, I thought about it. I would

689
00:33:13,918 --> 00:33:16,678
Speaker 3: have to see him actually come after a ground ball

690
00:33:17,278 --> 00:33:18,918
Speaker 3: and see what it looks like. I'd have to watch

691
00:33:18,958 --> 00:33:20,878
Speaker 3: his feet and how he threw the ball the first base,

692
00:33:22,078 --> 00:33:24,798
Speaker 3: just from a mechanical perspective. But yeah, Rojas is right

693
00:33:24,838 --> 00:33:28,078
Speaker 3: with it comes to the communicative component of this, just

694
00:33:28,238 --> 00:33:30,318
Speaker 3: holding runners, being in the right spot on cutoffs and

695
00:33:30,318 --> 00:33:33,078
Speaker 3: relays which he's played second base, He'll be fine with

696
00:33:33,158 --> 00:33:37,358
Speaker 3: all of that. But I'm just curious. It's it's not easy.

697
00:33:37,518 --> 00:33:41,398
Speaker 3: Billy Russell, Mickey Stanley right did it for the Tigers

698
00:33:41,438 --> 00:33:44,638
Speaker 3: in the World Series in sixty seven. Russell was a

699
00:33:44,638 --> 00:33:46,078
Speaker 3: big part of that. I think both of them came

700
00:33:46,118 --> 00:33:49,478
Speaker 3: in from center field to do that, to be their shortstops,

701
00:33:49,518 --> 00:33:52,838
Speaker 3: different different ere I get that. I don't remember specifically.

702
00:33:53,678 --> 00:33:55,518
Speaker 3: I know Russell played there for a while. Stanley, I

703
00:33:55,558 --> 00:33:58,358
Speaker 3: don't know how often he did play. But so there's

704
00:33:58,398 --> 00:34:01,798
Speaker 3: been based on need and is it. I've seen Lux

705
00:34:02,598 --> 00:34:05,278
Speaker 3: I'll say this, I lux, to me was a kind

706
00:34:05,278 --> 00:34:08,598
Speaker 3: of an inconsistent on the dirt for me fielding a

707
00:34:08,598 --> 00:34:10,238
Speaker 3: ground at ball and then throwing it too. I think

708
00:34:10,278 --> 00:34:11,998
Speaker 3: there's a lot of stuff there to be worked on,

709
00:34:11,998 --> 00:34:14,678
Speaker 3: and so from that perspective, I get it. So it

710
00:34:14,718 --> 00:34:17,998
Speaker 3: almost sounds like they like the bat set up of

711
00:34:18,078 --> 00:34:21,158
Speaker 3: all this. They probably they know that mookis going to

712
00:34:21,198 --> 00:34:23,798
Speaker 3: make some mistakes, I would imagine, but that they can cover.

713
00:34:24,678 --> 00:34:27,158
Speaker 3: But it's a hard place to make mistakes man, that

714
00:34:27,278 --> 00:34:30,718
Speaker 3: position right there, anything up the middle catcher through short

715
00:34:30,958 --> 00:34:34,038
Speaker 3: second in center field. I've always wanted something stirring there

716
00:34:34,038 --> 00:34:37,518
Speaker 3: because it is a difference maker. So yeah, I'm curious

717
00:34:37,518 --> 00:34:39,118
Speaker 3: to see what it looks like. I would love to

718
00:34:39,118 --> 00:34:40,718
Speaker 3: be on the field with them, watching them take ground

719
00:34:40,758 --> 00:34:43,398
Speaker 3: balls off of fungo to be able to make up

720
00:34:43,398 --> 00:34:45,438
Speaker 3: my mind. I remember when Gene Mak wanted to put

721
00:34:45,438 --> 00:34:47,638
Speaker 3: them on white there and I'm hitting him fungos and

722
00:34:47,638 --> 00:34:50,118
Speaker 3: I'm watching this, going Gene to myself because I would

723
00:34:50,118 --> 00:34:52,278
Speaker 3: never say it out loud, this ain't gonna work. So

724
00:34:53,238 --> 00:34:55,838
Speaker 3: they know what they're doing out there, But I'm just curious.

725
00:34:56,038 --> 00:34:57,798
Speaker 3: I need to see it in order to really draw

726
00:34:58,398 --> 00:34:59,158
Speaker 3: a conclusion.

727
00:34:59,518 --> 00:35:01,558
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd also be a little bit concerned about the

728
00:35:01,598 --> 00:35:03,918
Speaker 1: wear and tear on Mookie bits asking him to play

729
00:35:04,038 --> 00:35:08,198
Speaker 1: shortstop every day. Again, great athlete, but Joe, you know

730
00:35:08,278 --> 00:35:10,918
Speaker 1: it's it's there's a lot you ask out of a

731
00:35:10,918 --> 00:35:13,638
Speaker 1: shortstop in the course of a six month season, a

732
00:35:13,678 --> 00:35:15,158
Speaker 1: lot different than playing the outfield.

733
00:35:15,358 --> 00:35:17,278
Speaker 3: They probably look at even like Traig Turner. I mean,

734
00:35:17,398 --> 00:35:20,558
Speaker 3: these great athletes. These are great athletes. And no doubt

735
00:35:20,678 --> 00:35:23,198
Speaker 3: that if he to me, if Bets is capable, Mookie

736
00:35:23,238 --> 00:35:27,278
Speaker 3: is capable of mechanically fielding a ground ball well, can

737
00:35:27,318 --> 00:35:30,718
Speaker 3: play through it, moves his feet well, accurately throws the ball,

738
00:35:30,998 --> 00:35:33,758
Speaker 3: There's no doubt in my mind he will figure out

739
00:35:33,798 --> 00:35:36,038
Speaker 3: the rest of this stuff, all the communicative stuff, all

740
00:35:36,078 --> 00:35:40,678
Speaker 3: of that I believe will be rather easy compared to

741
00:35:40,718 --> 00:35:43,398
Speaker 3: this other part of it. I do. The guy's just

742
00:35:43,398 --> 00:35:45,918
Speaker 3: a high level athlete. He does everything to the to

743
00:35:45,958 --> 00:35:50,398
Speaker 3: the f degree well. So if in fact, physically he

744
00:35:50,438 --> 00:35:53,798
Speaker 3: could handle presenting his hands at fielding a groundball, stepping properly,

745
00:35:53,798 --> 00:35:55,678
Speaker 3: and throwing the ball accurately, chest tied at the first

746
00:35:55,718 --> 00:35:58,718
Speaker 3: baseman often or almost one hundred percent of the time,

747
00:35:58,958 --> 00:36:01,078
Speaker 3: he'll do it. He'll I mean he'll play the position.

748
00:36:01,158 --> 00:36:03,558
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I'm agree with you, Joe, and I've seen

749
00:36:03,598 --> 00:36:06,438
Speaker 1: him and he's for years he's taking ground balls at shortstop.

750
00:36:06,518 --> 00:36:09,038
Speaker 1: Like I said, it's it's one of those positions like

751
00:36:09,078 --> 00:36:12,598
Speaker 1: point garden basketball quarterback in football. Once you start out

752
00:36:12,598 --> 00:36:14,758
Speaker 1: at that position, it's always in your heart. And he

753
00:36:14,838 --> 00:36:17,518
Speaker 1: always thought of himself as a shortstop taking ground balls.

754
00:36:17,758 --> 00:36:21,038
Speaker 1: You see the footwork, the throwing ability, it's all there.

755
00:36:21,678 --> 00:36:24,038
Speaker 1: But I do think he's going to need time to know,

756
00:36:25,198 --> 00:36:28,358
Speaker 1: you know, where to be relays, just as some of

757
00:36:28,398 --> 00:36:30,718
Speaker 1: the just the normal kind of things you take for

758
00:36:30,798 --> 00:36:33,798
Speaker 1: granted playing shortstop in the big leagues. As the game

759
00:36:33,878 --> 00:36:36,478
Speaker 1: speeds up at that level, he'll get there, There's no

760
00:36:36,558 --> 00:36:38,758
Speaker 1: question about it. It'll be some growing pains early on,

761
00:36:38,798 --> 00:36:41,318
Speaker 1: but I think physically I'm not too worried about him.

762
00:36:41,318 --> 00:36:43,598
Speaker 1: If I'm the Dodgers, I don't think it's a big concern.

763
00:36:43,678 --> 00:36:45,838
Speaker 1: They will figure it out. He will figure it out.

764
00:36:45,918 --> 00:36:46,318
Speaker 3: I agree.

765
00:36:46,398 --> 00:36:48,358
Speaker 1: We're to take quick break here, Joe, and we got

766
00:36:48,358 --> 00:36:50,598
Speaker 1: to get back to one of our favorite topics here,

767
00:36:50,838 --> 00:36:54,358
Speaker 1: rock and roll, and I want to make a comparison

768
00:36:54,398 --> 00:36:56,718
Speaker 1: between rock and roll and get back to where we started,

769
00:36:56,758 --> 00:37:00,518
Speaker 1: which is Blake Snell starting pitching. What's happened to rock

770
00:37:00,558 --> 00:37:04,358
Speaker 1: and roll is the same thing that's happened to starting pitching.

771
00:37:04,678 --> 00:37:18,958
Speaker 1: We'll discuss that right after this, all right, Joe, I

772
00:37:18,958 --> 00:37:20,838
Speaker 1: was reading the other day at story I think it

773
00:37:20,878 --> 00:37:23,318
Speaker 1: was in the New York Times about the Black Crows.

774
00:37:24,118 --> 00:37:27,078
Speaker 1: They're back. They've been gone for a while. I don't

775
00:37:27,118 --> 00:37:30,798
Speaker 1: know if you remember the Black Crows. I do, early nineties.

776
00:37:30,798 --> 00:37:34,958
Speaker 1: They cranked out some seriously good rock and roll music,

777
00:37:35,078 --> 00:37:36,958
Speaker 1: and they look like they were going to be the

778
00:37:36,998 --> 00:37:40,318
Speaker 1: next big thing in rock and roll. And there's two

779
00:37:40,398 --> 00:37:43,198
Speaker 1: things that will kill a great rock and roll band

780
00:37:43,278 --> 00:37:48,198
Speaker 1: more than anything else. That is success and drugs. And

781
00:37:48,238 --> 00:37:49,598
Speaker 1: that's what happened to the Black Crows.

782
00:37:49,958 --> 00:37:50,078
Speaker 3: Now.

783
00:37:50,118 --> 00:37:51,438
Speaker 2: I don't know if they're going to come back to

784
00:37:51,478 --> 00:37:52,358
Speaker 2: the same level or not.

785
00:37:52,478 --> 00:37:56,158
Speaker 1: But it got me thinking, Joe, that I don't know

786
00:37:56,558 --> 00:37:59,398
Speaker 1: that there has been a great rock and roll band

787
00:37:59,678 --> 00:38:02,758
Speaker 1: since U two. I mean we are going back a

788
00:38:02,798 --> 00:38:06,278
Speaker 1: long way, you know, in the seventies and eighties. I

789
00:38:06,278 --> 00:38:09,998
Speaker 1: mean they were everywhere. When I'm talking about a great

790
00:38:10,078 --> 00:38:12,078
Speaker 1: rock and roll band, I'm not talking about a band

791
00:38:12,118 --> 00:38:15,198
Speaker 1: that puts out one album at chart Topper and they disappear.

792
00:38:15,958 --> 00:38:21,518
Speaker 1: I'm talking about sustainability, cranking out great music, album after

793
00:38:21,678 --> 00:38:24,758
Speaker 1: album after album that stands the test of time.

794
00:38:25,398 --> 00:38:26,798
Speaker 2: And you know, you can give me.

795
00:38:26,798 --> 00:38:28,718
Speaker 1: The Black Crows, you give me the Black Keys, you

796
00:38:28,718 --> 00:38:30,678
Speaker 1: can give me Muse, you can give me Kings of Leon.

797
00:38:30,718 --> 00:38:31,998
Speaker 2: There's a lot Lincoln Park.

798
00:38:32,438 --> 00:38:34,558
Speaker 1: There's a lot of great bands out there, but I'm

799
00:38:34,598 --> 00:38:36,918
Speaker 1: talking about the best of the best. And it's to

800
00:38:36,958 --> 00:38:39,278
Speaker 1: me like sort of like starting pitching. It ain't what

801
00:38:39,438 --> 00:38:42,918
Speaker 1: it used to be in terms of sustainability. And I'd

802
00:38:42,958 --> 00:38:46,718
Speaker 1: like to know, Joe, if you think like me, We've

803
00:38:46,758 --> 00:38:50,398
Speaker 1: gone almost a generation without a truly great rock and

804
00:38:50,478 --> 00:38:52,958
Speaker 1: roll band. And again I'm not saying there's not been

805
00:38:52,998 --> 00:38:57,198
Speaker 1: great ones, but I'm talking about iconic bands that have

806
00:38:57,438 --> 00:39:01,238
Speaker 1: the kind of playlist that goes on for days and days.

807
00:39:01,358 --> 00:39:05,158
Speaker 3: I told you about that documentary watch Greece Laurel Canyon. Yes,

808
00:39:05,598 --> 00:39:08,358
Speaker 3: and you talk about this one little enclave, this one

809
00:39:08,358 --> 00:39:12,358
Speaker 3: little area and the hills outside of a Hollywood area

810
00:39:12,478 --> 00:39:19,278
Speaker 3: in la and it was inundated with brilliant minds, musicians, songwriters,

811
00:39:19,998 --> 00:39:23,478
Speaker 3: all with their unique sound. Every one of them was unique.

812
00:39:23,518 --> 00:39:25,998
Speaker 3: I watched this the other night and I was absolutely

813
00:39:26,038 --> 00:39:31,158
Speaker 3: inspired by the conversations that I heard. Part of it

814
00:39:31,198 --> 00:39:34,598
Speaker 3: is and I believe this, there's a take this. I'm

815
00:39:34,598 --> 00:39:37,038
Speaker 3: not talking about suffering in a sense that you know,

816
00:39:37,078 --> 00:39:41,278
Speaker 3: there's you're being put down to the point where your

817
00:39:41,318 --> 00:39:43,598
Speaker 3: fear for your life, but suffer in a sense that

818
00:39:44,078 --> 00:39:46,798
Speaker 3: you try, you try, you try. No, that's not good enough, though,

819
00:39:46,838 --> 00:39:48,318
Speaker 3: that's not good enough. Though that's good enough, that we

820
00:39:48,318 --> 00:39:51,678
Speaker 3: don't like you. You'll never be good at this, and you

821
00:39:51,718 --> 00:39:54,918
Speaker 3: still stay with it. I mean this group and that group,

822
00:39:54,958 --> 00:39:58,718
Speaker 3: and I kind of grew up in this in this era.

823
00:40:00,158 --> 00:40:02,638
Speaker 3: It didn't come easy, and we didn't have to have

824
00:40:02,838 --> 00:40:07,478
Speaker 3: immediate success. Didn't have to. It wasn't just uh, you know,

825
00:40:07,518 --> 00:40:09,838
Speaker 3: instant coffee you poured in the kup and Eric, you

826
00:40:09,878 --> 00:40:12,438
Speaker 3: have coffee, you have to brew it. We had to

827
00:40:12,478 --> 00:40:14,558
Speaker 3: brew it back then. And I don't know that anybody

828
00:40:14,558 --> 00:40:17,078
Speaker 3: brews anymore. I don't know if anybody suffers enough and

829
00:40:17,198 --> 00:40:21,278
Speaker 3: goes through enough defeat and stays with it, because it

830
00:40:21,358 --> 00:40:26,118
Speaker 3: has to be almost simultaneous instant success. For the way

831
00:40:26,198 --> 00:40:30,038
Speaker 3: things are made today and the sound every the sound

832
00:40:30,158 --> 00:40:32,998
Speaker 3: is so similar. When somebody comes up with a unique sound,

833
00:40:33,038 --> 00:40:37,278
Speaker 3: it's almost like it is so unique. But back then

834
00:40:37,358 --> 00:40:40,238
Speaker 3: we could hear the first couple notes of a variety

835
00:40:40,278 --> 00:40:43,038
Speaker 3: of different songs. You know immediately who the artist was immediately,

836
00:40:44,038 --> 00:40:45,958
Speaker 3: you know whether it was the Stones or the Beatles,

837
00:40:46,158 --> 00:40:48,758
Speaker 3: or it was you know, even like the Almond Brothers

838
00:40:48,838 --> 00:40:51,798
Speaker 3: favorite of mine, Santana Springsteen. I mean, you always knew

839
00:40:51,798 --> 00:40:55,398
Speaker 3: immediately who this was. And all these people, they it

840
00:40:55,438 --> 00:40:59,278
Speaker 3: didn't come quickly, it didn't come easily. They were told no, no,

841
00:40:59,398 --> 00:41:02,198
Speaker 3: you can't do this, You're not that good. The record labels, no,

842
00:41:02,238 --> 00:41:04,558
Speaker 3: we don't want you, You're you're not good enough, and

843
00:41:04,598 --> 00:41:07,038
Speaker 3: they had to keep fighting through these moments. To me,

844
00:41:07,678 --> 00:41:10,398
Speaker 3: I just don't know that that happens garage bands. I

845
00:41:10,478 --> 00:41:12,878
Speaker 3: used to walk around Hazelton as a kid and there'd

846
00:41:12,878 --> 00:41:18,158
Speaker 3: be different bands throughout the city practicing all summer long venues,

847
00:41:18,238 --> 00:41:22,678
Speaker 3: the Battle of the Band's venues. Rock bands you go

848
00:41:22,758 --> 00:41:25,918
Speaker 3: to live performances in different clubs every night they were there.

849
00:41:26,838 --> 00:41:29,798
Speaker 3: I had the honor at one point of going to

850
00:41:29,798 --> 00:41:32,998
Speaker 3: the Bitter End years ago in the Village area of

851
00:41:33,038 --> 00:41:35,398
Speaker 3: New York City, where they had a different band like

852
00:41:35,478 --> 00:41:37,638
Speaker 3: every forty five minutes or an hour for three hundred

853
00:41:37,638 --> 00:41:39,118
Speaker 3: and sixty five days years for I don't know how

854
00:41:39,158 --> 00:41:41,798
Speaker 3: many years that's what you need to do. And I

855
00:41:41,798 --> 00:41:45,438
Speaker 3: don't think that kids people that are attempting to become

856
00:41:45,438 --> 00:41:47,158
Speaker 3: successful and were willing to put in that kind of

857
00:41:47,198 --> 00:41:50,758
Speaker 3: time or putting in that kind of failure. That's my impression.

858
00:41:51,158 --> 00:41:55,678
Speaker 3: Watching Laurel Canyon the other night really restoked me because

859
00:41:55,758 --> 00:41:57,478
Speaker 3: I know what I did to get where I was,

860
00:41:57,598 --> 00:42:00,838
Speaker 3: where I'm at and why the fire still burns for

861
00:42:00,998 --> 00:42:04,198
Speaker 3: me was really I was reminded of that by watching

862
00:42:04,278 --> 00:42:08,158
Speaker 3: this so long answer. But I just don't know that

863
00:42:08,398 --> 00:42:10,198
Speaker 3: the groups that are coming up are willing to put

864
00:42:10,198 --> 00:42:14,158
Speaker 3: in the time and the amount of failure to be successful.

865
00:42:14,478 --> 00:42:17,398
Speaker 1: Well, let me flip that on you, Joe, because of

866
00:42:17,518 --> 00:42:21,918
Speaker 1: again getting back to starting pitchers, they're only responding to

867
00:42:22,078 --> 00:42:24,958
Speaker 1: the cues that the industry is giving them. If the

868
00:42:24,958 --> 00:42:27,838
Speaker 1: industry is telling you, as a starting pitcher, listen, you're

869
00:42:27,878 --> 00:42:30,878
Speaker 1: going to pitch fewer innings than ever and you're going

870
00:42:30,918 --> 00:42:32,878
Speaker 1: to pitch with more rest than ever before.

871
00:42:33,358 --> 00:42:34,958
Speaker 2: What's he supposed to do? I want to take the

872
00:42:34,958 --> 00:42:35,838
Speaker 2: ball in the ninth inning.

873
00:42:36,318 --> 00:42:39,198
Speaker 1: No, you're being rewarded for a system set up that

874
00:42:39,518 --> 00:42:41,478
Speaker 1: is asking less out of you, and I think the

875
00:42:41,558 --> 00:42:44,398
Speaker 1: music industry is very similar in that a lot is

876
00:42:44,438 --> 00:42:48,158
Speaker 1: based on algorithms and what sells, and you know, to

877
00:42:48,198 --> 00:42:51,198
Speaker 1: get a chart topping hit, you basically follow an algorithm,

878
00:42:51,598 --> 00:42:55,478
Speaker 1: and it's actually more engineered. The sound, the music is

879
00:42:55,478 --> 00:43:00,118
Speaker 1: more engineered than it is musicianship. And that's why when

880
00:43:00,118 --> 00:43:02,398
Speaker 1: I brought up this story about the Black Crows coming back,

881
00:43:02,478 --> 00:43:05,598
Speaker 1: one thing that really caught my attention, Joe is apparently

882
00:43:05,678 --> 00:43:07,958
Speaker 1: when they cut this album that they're releasing and they're

883
00:43:07,958 --> 00:43:12,038
Speaker 1: going out on tour, they actually sat in a studio

884
00:43:12,798 --> 00:43:16,758
Speaker 1: and made the music and recorded the music live. I mean,

885
00:43:16,838 --> 00:43:21,678
Speaker 1: think about that. The word recording is something that captures

886
00:43:21,718 --> 00:43:25,678
Speaker 1: an event, a recording of an event. It's not something

887
00:43:25,718 --> 00:43:28,478
Speaker 1: that's layered, you know, individually, one on top of another

888
00:43:28,518 --> 00:43:30,838
Speaker 1: and somebody's got their laptop out and they put together

889
00:43:30,878 --> 00:43:33,918
Speaker 1: and here's a song. Where is the musicianship. So the

890
00:43:33,918 --> 00:43:36,198
Speaker 1: fact that the Black Crows are sitting there and they're

891
00:43:36,238 --> 00:43:40,798
Speaker 1: actually making literally a recording, think about that word and

892
00:43:40,838 --> 00:43:43,278
Speaker 1: what it means. Recording. We used to take it for granted.

893
00:43:43,838 --> 00:43:47,038
Speaker 1: Now it's like, wow, that's unusual. They're actually making recording.

894
00:43:47,438 --> 00:43:51,638
Speaker 1: So that's sort of musicianship. That's what I want to hear.

895
00:43:51,798 --> 00:43:52,318
Speaker 2: I don't want to.

896
00:43:52,318 --> 00:43:55,518
Speaker 1: Hear something that's so manufactured it's crystal clear and you

897
00:43:55,558 --> 00:43:57,718
Speaker 1: don't even know if it's music or not. I love

898
00:43:57,758 --> 00:44:00,678
Speaker 1: the fact that they apparently that they laying down tracks

899
00:44:00,718 --> 00:44:02,998
Speaker 1: the way that your Laurel Canyon buddies did.

900
00:44:03,398 --> 00:44:05,678
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean just pretty much, you know, slice the

901
00:44:05,718 --> 00:44:07,438
Speaker 3: wrist open and just bleed it out there. I mean,

902
00:44:07,438 --> 00:44:11,518
Speaker 3: that's what these guys have done, and I could identify

903
00:44:11,598 --> 00:44:14,398
Speaker 3: with that so clearly. I'm just trying to because you

904
00:44:14,438 --> 00:44:16,718
Speaker 3: did such a nice job there of tying it into

905
00:44:16,758 --> 00:44:19,398
Speaker 3: what that's going on with the pictures, and you're right,

906
00:44:19,758 --> 00:44:22,838
Speaker 3: it's what the industry has laid out there for you.

907
00:44:23,318 --> 00:44:25,758
Speaker 3: Baseball wise, you don't want you to. We only want

908
00:44:25,758 --> 00:44:27,238
Speaker 3: you to go two times through and want you to

909
00:44:27,238 --> 00:44:29,558
Speaker 3: go three times through. We're not gonna let you pitch

910
00:44:29,598 --> 00:44:32,638
Speaker 3: more deeply in the minor leagues as a starting pitcher.

911
00:44:32,678 --> 00:44:34,558
Speaker 3: So this is how it's going to be, and so

912
00:44:34,798 --> 00:44:36,878
Speaker 3: kids are being raised to believe that and do that.

913
00:44:37,438 --> 00:44:41,398
Speaker 3: And musical wise, like you said, the sound is so similar,

914
00:44:42,358 --> 00:44:45,758
Speaker 3: it's just being replicated all around. And I guess I

915
00:44:45,798 --> 00:44:47,958
Speaker 3: read somewhere not long ago, where there's just a few

916
00:44:49,518 --> 00:44:54,678
Speaker 3: big structure people groups that are really supplying all the

917
00:44:54,758 --> 00:44:58,478
Speaker 3: music and the sound for all these different artists out there,

918
00:44:58,518 --> 00:45:01,878
Speaker 3: and they just you know, pretty much give them their music.

919
00:45:02,798 --> 00:45:05,838
Speaker 3: The one thing that I've alway he's always loved that

920
00:45:06,038 --> 00:45:09,478
Speaker 3: really impressed me was the group that obviously wrote and

921
00:45:10,078 --> 00:45:13,478
Speaker 3: wrote the music and then wrote the lyrics of the music. God,

922
00:45:13,558 --> 00:45:16,038
Speaker 3: I mean, I was always that's always been the most

923
00:45:16,038 --> 00:45:19,758
Speaker 3: impressive thing to me. You take one of my absolute

924
00:45:19,798 --> 00:45:23,198
Speaker 3: favorites of all time, Linda Ronsett obviously didn't write music,

925
00:45:23,238 --> 00:45:27,638
Speaker 3: but she owned She put her own stamp, or she

926
00:45:27,678 --> 00:45:31,118
Speaker 3: provided ownership to everything that she sang in her own

927
00:45:31,238 --> 00:45:34,958
Speaker 3: unique style. So all of this stuff, it does bother me.

928
00:45:35,198 --> 00:45:36,838
Speaker 3: I guess you could tell that it does bother me.

929
00:45:37,118 --> 00:45:39,878
Speaker 3: I think it is important that Pitchers learned to pitch

930
00:45:39,918 --> 00:45:41,838
Speaker 3: more than two times through the banding order. And I

931
00:45:41,878 --> 00:45:44,238
Speaker 3: think it's really important for groups to develop their own

932
00:45:44,318 --> 00:45:47,758
Speaker 3: sound and to suffer a little bit and not just

933
00:45:47,838 --> 00:45:52,038
Speaker 3: have these cookie cutter moments, to really have have failure.

934
00:45:52,158 --> 00:45:54,918
Speaker 3: Failure is so important to success, and failure is so

935
00:45:54,958 --> 00:45:57,718
Speaker 3: important to be grateful for that success.

936
00:45:58,158 --> 00:46:01,998
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to fail sometimes means to be different. You're

937
00:46:01,998 --> 00:46:04,998
Speaker 1: true to yourself, but be different from the crowd. And

938
00:46:05,318 --> 00:46:07,598
Speaker 1: I had a good conversation with Alex Korra the other

939
00:46:07,678 --> 00:46:12,558
Speaker 1: day in Florida, and listen, he starting pitching. He's seen

940
00:46:12,598 --> 00:46:14,478
Speaker 1: the game change like the rest of us has, and

941
00:46:14,718 --> 00:46:17,118
Speaker 1: it caught up to the Red Sox last year. And

942
00:46:17,198 --> 00:46:21,158
Speaker 1: he talked about trying to change the dynamic. And you know,

943
00:46:21,198 --> 00:46:24,118
Speaker 1: with Craig Breslow's the GM Andrew Billy as the pitching coach,

944
00:46:24,438 --> 00:46:26,798
Speaker 1: they're working on a new system there with the Red Sox,

945
00:46:26,878 --> 00:46:29,958
Speaker 1: and their plans sound really good. Alex talked about how

946
00:46:30,358 --> 00:46:34,198
Speaker 1: one time through a rotation five starting pitchers. Right now,

947
00:46:34,278 --> 00:46:37,438
Speaker 1: the industry is only asking twenty five innings out of

948
00:46:37,478 --> 00:46:41,078
Speaker 1: those five games from those starting pitchers, and Alex wants

949
00:46:41,118 --> 00:46:43,918
Speaker 1: to get about thirty one time around. Doesn't sound like

950
00:46:43,958 --> 00:46:46,718
Speaker 1: a lot, but he said, believe me, we felt it

951
00:46:46,838 --> 00:46:49,758
Speaker 1: last year. When you start to feel the effects in

952
00:46:49,798 --> 00:46:53,878
Speaker 1: August and September of going to your bullpen guys in

953
00:46:53,918 --> 00:46:56,758
Speaker 1: the fourth and fifth inning, night after night after night,

954
00:46:57,358 --> 00:47:00,598
Speaker 1: that just getting them stretched out a little bit more

955
00:47:01,078 --> 00:47:03,758
Speaker 1: will have a profound effect on the length of this.

956
00:47:04,518 --> 00:47:06,158
Speaker 2: And I hope he's right.

957
00:47:06,398 --> 00:47:08,838
Speaker 1: I hope you know, what they're doing in Boston at

958
00:47:08,918 --> 00:47:11,438
Speaker 1: least has people thinking that there's a different way to

959
00:47:11,438 --> 00:47:12,878
Speaker 1: do that you don't have to rush to get guys

960
00:47:12,878 --> 00:47:15,238
Speaker 1: out of games. And again he's not talking about abusing

961
00:47:15,238 --> 00:47:18,638
Speaker 1: guys one hundred and fifty pitches, but just having a

962
00:47:18,718 --> 00:47:21,558
Speaker 1: mindset that, yeah, you can pitch into the sixth inning.

963
00:47:22,598 --> 00:47:24,558
Speaker 1: So I'm kind of rooting for the Red Sox to

964
00:47:24,598 --> 00:47:28,558
Speaker 1: at least establish that that that's another option again be different.

965
00:47:28,838 --> 00:47:31,078
Speaker 3: Well, that these are all contrived, I mean the methods

966
00:47:31,118 --> 00:47:33,318
Speaker 3: that have been put in place are all contrived. What

967
00:47:33,438 --> 00:47:36,638
Speaker 3: you're describing right there is what had happened in the past.

968
00:47:36,758 --> 00:47:39,998
Speaker 3: Like again I've talked about that which the analytical group

969
00:47:40,078 --> 00:47:42,078
Speaker 3: right now is the conservative group, and the group that

970
00:47:42,518 --> 00:47:44,358
Speaker 3: the group of renne gains are the guys that had

971
00:47:44,398 --> 00:47:47,038
Speaker 3: been more considered old school in the past. Where you're

972
00:47:47,078 --> 00:47:49,278
Speaker 3: just described right there is exactly how we had done

973
00:47:49,278 --> 00:47:52,638
Speaker 3: things for years, and it was taken away. It was

974
00:47:52,678 --> 00:47:56,518
Speaker 3: taken away because it was described as though the third

975
00:47:56,518 --> 00:47:58,598
Speaker 3: time through the batting what was a pariah for starting

976
00:47:58,598 --> 00:48:00,798
Speaker 3: pitchers and you don't want to have that done. And

977
00:48:00,838 --> 00:48:03,198
Speaker 3: further where you're worried about injuries and what happens. They

978
00:48:03,238 --> 00:48:06,518
Speaker 3: all get injured anyway, and we've talked about that last week.

979
00:48:06,558 --> 00:48:09,158
Speaker 3: It's more of a velocity based thing, or attempted velocity

980
00:48:09,398 --> 00:48:11,918
Speaker 3: than it is actually a breakdown of the arm and mechanics.

981
00:48:12,278 --> 00:48:15,518
Speaker 3: So yes, it makes a difference in August and September.

982
00:48:15,798 --> 00:48:19,518
Speaker 3: From the perspective that those are innings that you've covered,

983
00:48:19,998 --> 00:48:22,358
Speaker 3: you'd have to ask other guys to cover those innings

984
00:48:22,398 --> 00:48:24,558
Speaker 3: all the time because it might look pretty early on.

985
00:48:24,638 --> 00:48:26,958
Speaker 3: But by the end of the year, man, you got

986
00:48:26,958 --> 00:48:30,078
Speaker 3: a bunch of exhausted dudes out there. So I'm all

987
00:48:30,118 --> 00:48:33,118
Speaker 3: about that. Yes, you again, you're not pushing them to

988
00:48:33,118 --> 00:48:35,838
Speaker 3: the point where you're gonna, I shouldn't say, lose the game.

989
00:48:35,878 --> 00:48:38,318
Speaker 3: We're gonna push Everybody talks about getting hurt. I'm not

990
00:48:38,358 --> 00:48:39,838
Speaker 3: going to push them to the point where I'm going

991
00:48:39,878 --> 00:48:42,118
Speaker 3: to jeopardize the game and we're gonna lose the game

992
00:48:42,198 --> 00:48:44,678
Speaker 3: because I'm just trying to stretch somebody out. I'm not

993
00:48:44,718 --> 00:48:48,118
Speaker 3: worried about injuries so much. Hundred and ten pitches there's

994
00:48:48,238 --> 00:48:50,438
Speaker 3: not too many for a guy that's been throwing a

995
00:48:50,478 --> 00:48:53,078
Speaker 3: baseball for I don't know, five years in the Big leagues.

996
00:48:53,118 --> 00:48:54,758
Speaker 3: Four years in the big leagues or at least three

997
00:48:54,838 --> 00:48:57,078
Speaker 3: or four three years in the minor leagues. Not too many,

998
00:48:57,358 --> 00:49:00,758
Speaker 3: that's ridiculous. I don't believe that. So if they get

999
00:49:00,798 --> 00:49:02,558
Speaker 3: back to this point, you're gonna get more out of

1000
00:49:02,598 --> 00:49:05,358
Speaker 3: each one of your pitching staff. You're gonna get more

1001
00:49:05,398 --> 00:49:07,958
Speaker 3: innings out of your starters have to a or figure

1002
00:49:07,958 --> 00:49:11,118
Speaker 3: out less innings out of your bullpen. I absolutely believe

1003
00:49:11,398 --> 00:49:15,518
Speaker 3: you will then have rested guys or more rested pictures

1004
00:49:15,638 --> 00:49:17,558
Speaker 3: as it comes to the important part of the year.

1005
00:49:17,598 --> 00:49:19,198
Speaker 3: And the other thing is we used to do this

1006
00:49:19,278 --> 00:49:21,078
Speaker 3: with the race. If you're going with a five man

1007
00:49:21,238 --> 00:49:23,838
Speaker 3: rotation post all Star break, I like the idea of

1008
00:49:23,838 --> 00:49:26,318
Speaker 3: popping a six guy in there for a couple starts

1009
00:49:26,358 --> 00:49:29,638
Speaker 3: to really give your regular group a rest at that point.

1010
00:49:29,638 --> 00:49:31,678
Speaker 3: And I think by that time of the year they'd

1011
00:49:31,718 --> 00:49:34,238
Speaker 3: be more amenable to it and not argue so much.

1012
00:49:34,358 --> 00:49:36,158
Speaker 3: At the beginning of the year. These starters don't want

1013
00:49:36,198 --> 00:49:37,878
Speaker 3: to have that extra day rust. They don't like the

1014
00:49:37,918 --> 00:49:40,638
Speaker 3: six I'm gonna say I do. I've talked about I

1015
00:49:40,678 --> 00:49:43,158
Speaker 3: do like six, But okay, if you have a solid five,

1016
00:49:43,918 --> 00:49:46,158
Speaker 3: good here comes the All Star break. Let them know

1017
00:49:46,158 --> 00:49:48,518
Speaker 3: on an advanced post that we're gonna go We're gonna

1018
00:49:48,518 --> 00:49:50,438
Speaker 3: fit a six guy in, and I'll tell you mentioned

1019
00:49:50,478 --> 00:49:54,038
Speaker 3: his name earlier in this show. Alex cop Cobbra was

1020
00:49:54,038 --> 00:49:56,278
Speaker 3: the perfect six guy as he broke into the big

1021
00:49:56,358 --> 00:49:59,038
Speaker 3: leagues post All Star Break. We threw Alex in that

1022
00:49:59,158 --> 00:50:02,958
Speaker 3: rotation down here and it was wonderful how it all

1023
00:50:02,998 --> 00:50:06,318
Speaker 3: worked out. So there's ways to be creative. But everybody

1024
00:50:06,358 --> 00:50:10,158
Speaker 3: access though it's new, it's just being invented now. It's

1025
00:50:10,198 --> 00:50:14,038
Speaker 3: just going back to tried and true and permitting themselves

1026
00:50:14,078 --> 00:50:17,518
Speaker 3: to explore this. But it's nothing new. You talk to

1027
00:50:17,518 --> 00:50:20,878
Speaker 3: any old school pitching coach, it's worth his weight in anything.

1028
00:50:21,358 --> 00:50:23,998
Speaker 3: It's been this way and we've gotten away from.

1029
00:50:23,918 --> 00:50:27,878
Speaker 1: It well, Joe, Opening Day at least Stateside is right

1030
00:50:28,038 --> 00:50:30,558
Speaker 1: around the corner, and next week we are going to

1031
00:50:30,598 --> 00:50:36,398
Speaker 1: give our twenty twenty four MLB season preview. Looking forward

1032
00:50:36,438 --> 00:50:39,238
Speaker 1: to that once obviously, the Dodgers and Padres wrap up

1033
00:50:39,238 --> 00:50:42,998
Speaker 1: their two game Soul series over in South Korea. In

1034
00:50:43,038 --> 00:50:46,238
Speaker 1: the meantime, Joe, it's your job to always close out

1035
00:50:46,238 --> 00:50:48,438
Speaker 1: the game for us, So I'm handing you to the ball.

1036
00:50:48,558 --> 00:50:49,598
Speaker 1: What do you got for us?

1037
00:50:49,838 --> 00:50:51,678
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I was. I was thinking about this

1038
00:50:51,798 --> 00:50:55,518
Speaker 3: today and I was thinking about Snell. That was part

1039
00:50:55,518 --> 00:51:00,078
Speaker 3: of my motivation. And this is something I've always felt

1040
00:51:00,078 --> 00:51:03,198
Speaker 3: like in the game as a manager. I don't know

1041
00:51:03,238 --> 00:51:06,038
Speaker 3: one hundred percent how this applies, but there's some kind

1042
00:51:06,038 --> 00:51:08,398
Speaker 3: of connection or somewhere. You'll probably figure it out. But

1043
00:51:08,478 --> 00:51:12,918
Speaker 3: the essence of strategy is choosing what not to do, right,

1044
00:51:12,998 --> 00:51:15,998
Speaker 3: And I used to always think in the game, nobody

1045
00:51:15,998 --> 00:51:18,918
Speaker 3: ever talked about the decisions I made to not do something.

1046
00:51:19,118 --> 00:51:24,758
Speaker 3: It's only obvious and you speak about or dissect decisions

1047
00:51:24,758 --> 00:51:27,918
Speaker 3: that are made, but nobody ever knows about the things

1048
00:51:27,958 --> 00:51:30,118
Speaker 3: that were not done because I chose not to do them,

1049
00:51:30,118 --> 00:51:32,758
Speaker 3: were a group chooses not to do them. So the

1050
00:51:32,878 --> 00:51:35,758
Speaker 3: essence of strategy is choosing what not to do. So

1051
00:51:35,838 --> 00:51:39,998
Speaker 3: what happened with all of this strategy with Snell and

1052
00:51:40,078 --> 00:51:42,798
Speaker 3: what the Yankees chose not to do? As an example,

1053
00:51:43,798 --> 00:51:45,918
Speaker 3: I would choose not to bring a certain picture in

1054
00:51:45,918 --> 00:51:48,838
Speaker 3: a game, or I would choose right not to bring

1055
00:51:48,838 --> 00:51:51,078
Speaker 3: a relief picture in, or choose to leave this starter in.

1056
00:51:51,478 --> 00:51:53,838
Speaker 3: But I chose to not bring this reliever and maybe

1057
00:51:53,918 --> 00:51:57,198
Speaker 3: only because I thought it might be a bunt situation,

1058
00:51:57,398 --> 00:51:59,918
Speaker 3: and the guy that was in the game already was

1059
00:52:00,238 --> 00:52:02,918
Speaker 3: a better defender if the ball was actually bunted, as

1060
00:52:02,918 --> 00:52:05,358
Speaker 3: opposed to the guy coming in was awful. So the

1061
00:52:05,438 --> 00:52:08,878
Speaker 3: decision to not do something is a really powerful decision

1062
00:52:08,918 --> 00:52:10,198
Speaker 3: that really does get discussed.

1063
00:52:10,518 --> 00:52:12,718
Speaker 2: Wait a second, did you just quote Joe Madden?

1064
00:52:13,958 --> 00:52:15,798
Speaker 3: Did I? I guess I did?

1065
00:52:16,358 --> 00:52:17,078
Speaker 2: Is that is.

1066
00:52:16,998 --> 00:52:19,878
Speaker 1: That usually you know you're going Ben Franklin, you're going

1067
00:52:19,958 --> 00:52:20,518
Speaker 1: Mark Twain.

1068
00:52:22,158 --> 00:52:23,558
Speaker 2: Is there a source to this quote?

1069
00:52:23,678 --> 00:52:27,278
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm sorry, a professor Michael Porter, who I'm not

1070
00:52:27,278 --> 00:52:30,118
Speaker 3: one hundred percent Okay, sure, but but.

1071
00:52:29,758 --> 00:52:31,398
Speaker 1: But when I read I thought you were going on

1072
00:52:31,558 --> 00:52:33,518
Speaker 1: Ricky Henderson, go on third person.

1073
00:52:33,638 --> 00:52:35,878
Speaker 3: Could have I should have. But when I read that,

1074
00:52:36,558 --> 00:52:40,238
Speaker 3: I thought, dang, that's exactly how I felt about, you know,

1075
00:52:40,518 --> 00:52:44,478
Speaker 3: making non decisions at games. It's they're really powerful to

1076
00:52:44,878 --> 00:52:46,198
Speaker 3: decide to not do something.

1077
00:52:46,558 --> 00:52:49,318
Speaker 1: Yeah, that reminds me of my favorite rule of managing

1078
00:52:49,398 --> 00:52:53,118
Speaker 1: rule number one. Never do anything that makes the other

1079
00:52:53,158 --> 00:52:57,878
Speaker 1: team happy. That's right, And that was I just when

1080
00:52:57,878 --> 00:53:00,718
Speaker 1: I think of that, I think of Mookie Betts literally

1081
00:53:00,918 --> 00:53:04,318
Speaker 1: smiling in the on deck circle when he saw Cash

1082
00:53:04,358 --> 00:53:06,918
Speaker 1: go out to get Blake Snell in twenty twenty World

1083
00:53:06,998 --> 00:53:07,838
Speaker 1: Series Game six.

1084
00:53:08,038 --> 00:53:10,518
Speaker 2: Don't do anything that makes the other team happy.

1085
00:53:10,638 --> 00:53:11,678
Speaker 3: Tom Berducci, right there.

1086
00:53:11,678 --> 00:53:12,158
Speaker 2: I like that.

1087
00:53:12,158 --> 00:53:13,638
Speaker 3: That's perfect. That's perfect.

1088
00:53:13,678 --> 00:53:16,638
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did quote myself. See you next time, Joe.

1089
00:53:16,718 --> 00:53:17,318
Speaker 3: All right, brother.

1090
00:53:24,198 --> 00:53:27,438
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1091
00:53:27,638 --> 00:53:32,638
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1092
00:53:32,758 --> 00:53:34,558
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