Speaker 1: Pushkin. Tanya Tucker was only fourteen in the spring of
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two when she released Delta Down. It was
Speaker 1: a first crack at recording a single, and while she
Speaker 1: was still in school, the song became a country radio hit,
Speaker 1: her first of dozens over the years. Even at that
Speaker 1: young age and despite being a woman, she was lumped
Speaker 1: in with the crop of country singers known affectionately as
Speaker 1: outlaws Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Chris Christofferson, Waylon Jennings. She
Speaker 1: took a little break from the music business in the
Speaker 1: early eighties and then came roaring back in the nineties
Speaker 1: during another classic period of country music. By her own admission,
Speaker 1: she was just unmotivated record music over the last couple
Speaker 1: of decades and just sort of fell off, But that
Speaker 1: all changed when she met Brandy Carlyle. Brandy, a singer
Speaker 1: songwriter from outside Seattle with the country flair, has been
Speaker 1: killing it since twenty eighteen, when her breakout album By
Speaker 1: the Way I Forgive You was released. She wrote the
Speaker 1: Wheels of Laredo and several others on Tanya's album While
Speaker 1: I'm Living and co produced the record with Whalen's son,
Speaker 1: Shooter Jennings. It's Tanya's first album of new material in
Speaker 1: sixteen years, and she almost didn't make it after bailing
Speaker 1: a few times on the recording sessions, thinking the songs
Speaker 1: just weren't good enough. Though eventually she released and made
Speaker 1: what others in her now considered to be her comeback record,
Speaker 1: and as you'll hear, our own Rick Rubin had something
Speaker 1: to do with it. This is broken record liner notes
Speaker 1: for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Just a quick
Speaker 1: note here. You can listen to all of the music
Speaker 1: mentioned in this episode on our playlist, which you can
Speaker 1: find a link to in the show notes. For licensing reasons,
Speaker 1: each time a song is referenced in this episode, you'll
Speaker 1: hear this sound effect all right. Enjoy the episode. Rick
Speaker 1: sat with Brandy and Tanye at Shangrilo on Malibu to
Speaker 1: talk about the album and what it means after so
Speaker 1: much time away to make vibrant music again at sixty
Speaker 1: Hello missus Ribbon, How were you to see you? I
Speaker 1: never have never have no. I sent my my nephew
Speaker 1: out the parking lot to give him a message. I remember,
Speaker 1: I'm scared to go talk to you. I didn't know
Speaker 1: that you I didn't know you were there. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: I lived up Ontador, but he didn't say that you
Speaker 1: were there. Oh he didn't know. She loves Yeah, that's recruitment.
Speaker 1: Go get my phone number. I like your makeup today.
Speaker 1: My makeup hardly have any own, girl. Maybe that's why
Speaker 1: I like it. Did my brandy look today? I like it?
Speaker 1: I like it. I like it. I was busting as
Speaker 1: trying to get here. It was a great day, though,
Speaker 1: beautiful day for convertible. You're top down today? Yeah, isn't
Speaker 1: that nice? Yeah? Boy, it really is a lot of
Speaker 1: traffic though where you come from. Uh, we came from
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City. We did a show there on the thirteenth.
Speaker 1: And then he pointed, pointed to bus this way. Are
Speaker 1: you Are you on tourn most of the time? Yeah,
Speaker 1: lifetime beautiful. It don't stop. And they're both on their
Speaker 1: cycles some bulldogs and I just talked him by the way,
Speaker 1: and he wants me to mention to you so I
Speaker 1: can have this done. Felice. Did I mention to you
Speaker 1: about Felicia? Felicia and Boodlow Bryant about they had five
Speaker 1: They wrote five thousand songs, but only sixteen hundred have
Speaker 1: been cut like Rocky tub you very famous stuo and writing,
Speaker 1: and he is getting all the I guess he's been
Speaker 1: the same thing like with Cawboy Cowboy Jack getting all
Speaker 1: the catalog. And they really his family, Their family wants you,
Speaker 1: of course, I said, people, everyone wants that you just
Speaker 1: cut one of their songs. And I said, well, I'll
Speaker 1: tell her. I'll tell her. And they want me to
Speaker 1: cut one of their songs and pick one that maybe
Speaker 1: hadn't been recorded yet. So I said, well, I'll tell
Speaker 1: her and then you I could give her the details later.
Speaker 1: Well you know by now, but sure you tell Brandy
Speaker 1: that there's no road. I won't follow you down, I said,
Speaker 1: I swear. I mean, I I'm sure they've got some
Speaker 1: great songs. You know. I don't know if I can
Speaker 1: wear that or not. I'm hot, was tripping it off. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was so cool, Rick. When we came in here,
Speaker 1: I've never been here before, yea. And we recorded Christopherson
Speaker 1: in here a beautiful song of Dennis's. He's a great writer.
Speaker 1: And we call a song called on My Way to
Speaker 1: Heaven and so we recorded it here. Everybody here, Uh
Speaker 1: was so nice. Really, really, it's a good crew it's
Speaker 1: a nice place to come. Really really got and they
Speaker 1: were so sweet. It was just really really monumental for
Speaker 1: me to have Chris come in and and he did
Speaker 1: such a good job. I'm so proud of it. He's
Speaker 1: one of the real great writers. Like yeah, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: as good as it gets. Yeah yeah. And then Billy
Speaker 1: Joe Shaber called me on the way over here. I
Speaker 1: guess Dennis is trying to help him get his catalog
Speaker 1: and all that together, so all over the place, and
Speaker 1: he's had some health trouble. So no, he's always there
Speaker 1: a quay and he's always right there, and n he's
Speaker 1: putting all my stuff together, you know, old videos and
Speaker 1: things that home movies and things that just are It's
Speaker 1: really precious to me. But it couldn't get anybody to
Speaker 1: when you when you start looking for stuff like that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: where is it? You know? Oh, where's it? My? Wherehouse
Speaker 1: is it? Who's got it? What was your first experience
Speaker 1: of going on the road. My first experience of going
Speaker 1: on the road. I guess probably that would have to
Speaker 1: be uh, you know, I I was still going to school.
Speaker 1: I had like three number one records out, still going
Speaker 1: to school, trying to trying to stay in school and
Speaker 1: how old are you at the time. I was fifteen, okay,
Speaker 1: uh and fort Is turned fifteen, didn't have my own
Speaker 1: band yet, and uh, I had Belt of course I
Speaker 1: had Delta don Jamestown Blood Red, and I think it
Speaker 1: might have been would You Lay with Me in a
Speaker 1: Field of Stone? But David Allan co song it went
Speaker 1: number one, you know. So we got we were living
Speaker 1: in right outside of Las Vegas, and we got a
Speaker 1: Texas tour with Johnny Rodriguez. Johnny Rodriguez had out passing
Speaker 1: by of course, like Delta down. So he was He's
Speaker 1: like twenty and I was fourteen. And we had two
Speaker 1: brown Lincoln Continentals and he had one and I had
Speaker 1: the other. And I think we probably played every juice
Speaker 1: joint in Texas, you know, with the with the chicken
Speaker 1: wire and all, you know, and uh, you know he
Speaker 1: was at that time, he was like Elvis. I mean,
Speaker 1: the girls would just go crazy over him, and then
Speaker 1: I'd get up there, and then you know, the guys
Speaker 1: were afraid to you know, holler for me. The girl.
Speaker 1: Their girlfriends get mad. You know. I always used to
Speaker 1: be so mad about that. God, dang it. Why don't
Speaker 1: they do me like that? You know. Now I get
Speaker 1: up there and they're like, you know, it's quiet. And
Speaker 1: we had this band called the Cowtowners working for both
Speaker 1: of us, who you know, was not what I would
Speaker 1: think the greatest band in the world. But we did it,
Speaker 1: we did, but we did. I bet three months, three
Speaker 1: or four months, and then we were last show was
Speaker 1: in Lubbock, Texas, and and we had to go back
Speaker 1: to San Antono, which is where our hub was. And
Speaker 1: my mother, my my dad, me and this little kid
Speaker 1: my dad was managing, decided instead of flying back, my
Speaker 1: dad thought we'd saved some money and drive back to
Speaker 1: San antone, one hundred and sixty miles with this fan
Speaker 1: that followed me everywhere. He had a FOURD LTD. And
Speaker 1: here we go. And in Brady, Texas, we had a
Speaker 1: head on collision, and you know, a little bit small hospital.
Speaker 1: Seven minutes after we had the head on collision, a
Speaker 1: bunch of young cowboys, like seventeen eighteen, about seven of
Speaker 1: them got in a wreck. So that hospital was one
Speaker 1: little doctor there. And my mother was the worst. She
Speaker 1: really got the bunt, the brunt of all of it,
Speaker 1: and broke both of my dad's arms. I had a
Speaker 1: concussion and uh so we you know, they kept my
Speaker 1: mother for about three months in the hospital and they
Speaker 1: would just turn her, you know, she was in a
Speaker 1: contraption where What was so wild about it, though, is
Speaker 1: they did they did u X rays and they did
Speaker 1: X rays on my mother on her neck on her
Speaker 1: back was both broken. And then we get to San
Speaker 1: Antone and they rushed to sin and they they did
Speaker 1: the of course, all the way there, Jeff Allen, the
Speaker 1: little kid that my dad was managing, he prayed all
Speaker 1: the way. I've never heard anybody pray like that in
Speaker 1: my life. And fast de little, you know, and he was, yeah,
Speaker 1: be quiet, you know, and he prayed all the way
Speaker 1: to San Antonio about from my mother, and they took
Speaker 1: X rays of her, and the doctor came out and
Speaker 1: tell my dad her neck's not broken, and he goes,
Speaker 1: the hell it ain't. And he gave him the other
Speaker 1: uh X rays, put him side by side, and he said,
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say. He said, it's just
Speaker 1: a miracle. So I always always I felt very, very
Speaker 1: connected to Jeff after that, so, you know, he he
Speaker 1: I felt like it was he was the reason beautiful
Speaker 1: but that was about It was just a really hard time,
Speaker 1: you know that first sure, What was it like being
Speaker 1: in school with other kids and you have hit records
Speaker 1: on the radio. Well, man, I had a lot of problems.
Speaker 1: I mean, I had just moved to My dad pulled
Speaker 1: up at him a trailer it's called trailer estates had
Speaker 1: for sales sign out in front of it, and my
Speaker 1: dad says, we'll be right back. He said, your mother
Speaker 1: waiting a car. So about ten minutes later he and
Speaker 1: he waved us in. We walked in and that there
Speaker 1: was a lady in there that on the trailer. He said,
Speaker 1: sing this lady's song, and I just read back and
Speaker 1: did h you're cheating heart, you know. And when I
Speaker 1: got done singing Swilight Crazy People, she she said, I'm
Speaker 1: going to Missouri. I'll see y'all later, and she left.
Speaker 1: So we moved in to this trailer amazing. And I
Speaker 1: don't know what my dad said to her, but I
Speaker 1: guess she put two and four together and looked pretty good.
Speaker 1: And so we lived there and I was going to
Speaker 1: school and my dad was working, my mother was working
Speaker 1: it safeway, and I was looking for change in the
Speaker 1: sofa every morning. I don't remember it being hard for me,
Speaker 1: but it was. He went to school. Oh yeah. Finally
Speaker 1: my dad started letting me drop the car and I
Speaker 1: drive my car to too. I was in high school.
Speaker 1: I was first first year of high school. My freshman year.
Speaker 1: When I was riding the bus, I'd get off the
Speaker 1: bus and they'd be girls, you know, dell to see
Speaker 1: what's that poo? I smell on. You couldn't be you
Speaker 1: need a bathroom shower two, you know, and they were
Speaker 1: just they'd make fun of me. So my dad had
Speaker 1: he started teaching me how to fight and how to box.
Speaker 1: You know, he said, them girls, he said, they can't
Speaker 1: take it on the nose. He said, you get it
Speaker 1: one time on the nose or out. You know, them
Speaker 1: boys he said it can take it. But the girls
Speaker 1: one time boom gone. And he said just give him
Speaker 1: one of them, you know, from bring one from the floor.
Speaker 1: So I would be in boxing lessons from my dad
Speaker 1: at night. And then there was one time when I
Speaker 1: looked and I looked and I found those those yellow boxes.
Speaker 1: You know. He didn't want me to see that, those
Speaker 1: yellow boxes, I guess, or food stamps or whatever. Okay,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, but I found him, and my mother said,
Speaker 1: don't you tell your dad you you found those, because
Speaker 1: he was very you know, proud man. And you know
Speaker 1: when we went out of the road, it was we
Speaker 1: learned together. You know, you're not getting paid for for
Speaker 1: those the music, like you you had songs on the radio,
Speaker 1: Well we did if you were on food stamps. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, we didn't. We didn't really know what
Speaker 1: the next move was. My dad was shooting from the hip,
Speaker 1: you know, he didn't know. But everything we did do
Speaker 1: was because of him, and uh uh kind of learned together.
Speaker 1: And I remember one time we had that old station away.
Speaker 1: It was going somewhere. He's trying to get me to
Speaker 1: meet with somebody. You know, this was before I got
Speaker 1: started or before I had the record, first record, and
Speaker 1: uh he pulled into a gas station and said, listen, son,
Speaker 1: He said, I got a brand new jack. Now back
Speaker 1: in my car. He said, if you'll feel my tank
Speaker 1: full of gas, you have that jack, and that guy
Speaker 1: just hell hell sure, because he would He was trying
Speaker 1: to get me somewhere you know that would hopefully somebody
Speaker 1: would do something for me. And the guy, of course
Speaker 1: kind of it was a it was a bum bumm deal.
Speaker 1: But at least we tried. He tried, and then that's
Speaker 1: that's where my dad was. But I didn't. I didn't.
Speaker 1: We didn't I have. He finally got me my first
Speaker 1: second man, actually second manager was John Kelly and in
Speaker 1: Las Vegas, and he ended up having to buy him
Speaker 1: out because he knew he wouldn't take me where I
Speaker 1: needed to go. And I toured with his wife for
Speaker 1: a while, g d Lynn and I was playing the lounges,
Speaker 1: you know, three shows a night, the Flamingo Hotel at fourteen,
Speaker 1: you know, so it's pretty wild. I want you think
Speaker 1: about it much. Does start talking about you know, well
Speaker 1: you tell Rick about how you're how your dad used
Speaker 1: to sleep. Yeah, well, me and my dad would tour
Speaker 1: a lot. Yeah, missed, me and him when he had
Speaker 1: a house ban. So he'd be driving trying to get
Speaker 1: to the next gig, and I just slide over. He'd
Speaker 1: be like, baby, I need a nap. Yeah, he's I
Speaker 1: got I gotta sleep, and he and uh, he'd slide
Speaker 1: over and I would drive for a lot and he
Speaker 1: wake up a couple of hours later and go, oh
Speaker 1: my god. You know. And I was fourteen, fourteen and
Speaker 1: It was one time I was sitting on the back
Speaker 1: of the toilet and the girls locker room and we
Speaker 1: was playing somewhere up north in Wisconsin. The place was
Speaker 1: packed a little, uh you know, high school gym, and
Speaker 1: I'm sitting on the back of the toilet with my
Speaker 1: feet on the toilet seat in the girl's locker room
Speaker 1: when you in a stall. So my dad, would you know,
Speaker 1: just claim he's pacing. I'm going I can't talk. I
Speaker 1: can't even sing. I can't talk. What are you gonna
Speaker 1: do now? I had learnet is so bad and he
Speaker 1: I watched it. He can come in and I see
Speaker 1: him go buy pacing and he find it. He's stopped
Speaker 1: and said, I got it, I got it, I got it.
Speaker 1: He goes that contract said one hour show. Didn't say
Speaker 1: a damn thing about singing. He said you just get
Speaker 1: up there, and he said, you tell them people that
Speaker 1: you can't sing tonight. But you got your man is
Speaker 1: gonna play all your songs, which wasn't my band, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna sign autographs and shake everybody's hands, and let's
Speaker 1: get our money going down the road. And I think
Speaker 1: it was like six hundred bucks. And nobody left he said.
Speaker 1: They didn't come to see it to hear you. They
Speaker 1: can't hear you on the radio and hear you get
Speaker 1: home on a record player, he said, they come to
Speaker 1: see you. And if you look at him once, he said,
Speaker 1: and he also says something I remember, pick out the
Speaker 1: ugliest boy on the front road, he said, because them
Speaker 1: boys don't get no attention, he said, And they'll buy
Speaker 1: records till the day you die. But they're pretty boys.
Speaker 1: They get all the attention all the time. And so
Speaker 1: I learned a lot from him. I showed up talk
Speaker 1: about him. I showed up. We showed it one time
Speaker 1: and the outside bleachers were full. And in those days,
Speaker 1: country promoters were just the worst there, really the worst.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, well not much has changed. But I
Speaker 1: got there and they didn't. The promoter didn't have any speakers,
Speaker 1: no speakers. So I said, my dadd okay, now what
Speaker 1: are we gonna do? Ya mister brilliant you know, he said, Hey,
Speaker 1: just sing real loud, And that's what I did. I
Speaker 1: did the whole show with no speakers, and I was
Speaker 1: so hoarse from how many people were there, I'd say,
Speaker 1: probably wow, it was a big It was on one
Speaker 1: of them race tracks, you know, Oh my gosh, yeah, outdoors, outdoors. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My dad was a he was a warrior. Very uh.
Speaker 1: I've never met anybody like him. Yeah. You know, everybody
Speaker 1: always talks about their mom and dad, and I got
Speaker 1: the best and you know, I had the best parents
Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, in the whole world. And I'm so
Speaker 1: glad that I was blessed with both of them. Beautiful,
Speaker 1: you know. And they were married sixty seven years. When
Speaker 1: my dad passed an oh six on Thanksgiving morning, he
Speaker 1: got his wings and so that was a man. You know,
Speaker 1: it was a real tough time for me after that.
Speaker 1: I was living out here actually Malibu and kind of
Speaker 1: lost my mojo after that. And then my mother passed
Speaker 1: in twenty twelve, and that was like what am I
Speaker 1: doing this for? You know? I lost the people that
Speaker 1: really I just felt like there was less love in
Speaker 1: the future than they had been in the past. Yes,
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to accept that. But then I thought,
Speaker 1: I think, well, I got my kids, and you know,
Speaker 1: that's that's a future that's going to be there, that
Speaker 1: they're always gonna love me. And but I felt like
Speaker 1: I'd lost the ones that were gonna love me the most,
Speaker 1: and that was in the past, and the future wasn't
Speaker 1: wasn't bright enough. And then here comes Brandy, Well, I
Speaker 1: love you. I love you with all my damn art.
Speaker 1: And that's the great thing about it is I know
Speaker 1: she's telling me the truth. How did you guys meet?
Speaker 1: I we met on face time. I met Tanye before
Speaker 1: she met me because I started singing tan years music
Speaker 1: as an eight year old on stage at the Northwest
Speaker 1: Grand Ole Opry outside of Seattle, where I'm from. Northerners feel,
Speaker 1: I think more passionate about country music than Southerners do
Speaker 1: sometimes because we don't have proximity on our side, so
Speaker 1: we defensively say, you know, country isn't southern, it's country
Speaker 1: and western. Yeah, and uh so I loved country music,
Speaker 1: but I had to a sense of gender dysphoria, and
Speaker 1: I didn't understand what my place was as a singer
Speaker 1: because I wanted to sound tough and I heard Delta
Speaker 1: Don and I was like, that woman sounds tough and
Speaker 1: they're like, well, that's not a woman. That's a little
Speaker 1: little girl. And she's thirteen, you know, And I was eight,
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, hell, like this is this
Speaker 1: is me? This is what I want to do. I
Speaker 1: want to sound just like that, like that girl. And
Speaker 1: then I started doing San Antonio Stroll and What's your
Speaker 1: Mama's Name? And Ride Up through Trouble and ride up
Speaker 1: through strong Enough to Bend and all the way to
Speaker 1: two Sparrows and a Hurricane. I became such a Tanya
Speaker 1: Tucker fanatic as a child. So I've been in love
Speaker 1: with ten years music and didn't see any difference between
Speaker 1: Tanya and Cash, or Tanya and Dolly, or Tanya and Loretta,
Speaker 1: because she's such a part of that landscape, even though
Speaker 1: she was so much younger than all of them. She
Speaker 1: was right there alongside him at the opry and and
Speaker 1: so it just passed, you know, as I kind of
Speaker 1: dove into britpop and started to kind of have these
Speaker 1: crushes on flamboyant gay British men. But it all came
Speaker 1: back to me when I kind of found my roots again,
Speaker 1: and I wondered, like, where the Hell's Tanya Tucker, you know?
Speaker 1: And I was on, Yeah, where the Hell's Danny Zucker?
Speaker 1: And Shooter Jennings says to me when we were making
Speaker 1: the album, he goes, I think I just heard some
Speaker 1: Tanya Tucker in your voice and I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you did, you really did. And I was like, God,
Speaker 1: why why isn't Tany Zucker making any music anymore? She
Speaker 1: not well? Like what's going on? He's like, actually, she's
Speaker 1: really well and she can sing her ass off and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make a record with her. You want to
Speaker 1: write some songs. And I was like, please, please introduce
Speaker 1: me to Tanny Tucker. And he did. He introduced me
Speaker 1: to Tanya. He got me involved in the album, and
Speaker 1: now Tanya has become one of my best friends and
Speaker 1: she's my hero and mentor. Oh it's totally so it's
Speaker 1: like to be almost like a yeah, it's almost like
Speaker 1: it was written. Yeah, we're just living it out. But
Speaker 1: I was playing Vegas actually, and the Brandy's nominations came out.
Speaker 1: Of course, Brandy was up for six and I was
Speaker 1: so sick in Vegas and I didn't think I was
Speaker 1: I thought, this is really where I'm gonna die. The
Speaker 1: Golden Nugget and oh, I mean I just knew there
Speaker 1: was going to be a bit dead. And they finally
Speaker 1: got in the hotel room and I was having an
Speaker 1: IV trying to you know, buy him an IV and
Speaker 1: get better, and the FaceTime call came in and it
Speaker 1: was Brandy. So I'm slum laying there like and just
Speaker 1: letting her talk. And that's kind of how we first
Speaker 1: first met. But I mean as far as you know,
Speaker 1: looking at each other. But the real first time I
Speaker 1: met her was the day we walked into the studio,
Speaker 1: the first day we worked, and I had never really
Speaker 1: heard of her. I was out of the loop. My
Speaker 1: kids did my kids, mom, you know Brandy Carl, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, like al king, you know, she wanted to
Speaker 1: do something with me, and I didn't know. I wasn't aware,
Speaker 1: and my kids were like, oh my god, I can't believe.
Speaker 1: So they really were informed me a little bit a
Speaker 1: lot actually about what's going on, and they were very
Speaker 1: aware of Brandy and I, but I had never and
Speaker 1: so I had never really heard her sing any of
Speaker 1: her her songs or the joke and what was the
Speaker 1: other one you did? Did you get a joke on
Speaker 1: the Grammys? Yeah? And the story it was close two
Speaker 1: But I saw on the Grammys and that's after we
Speaker 1: that's the first time you ever saying even though we
Speaker 1: had made a record, we'd been in the studio for
Speaker 1: three weeks, and I happened to watch the Grammys and
Speaker 1: and I saw her and I thought, Wow, this girl's
Speaker 1: blowing me away. And then the other day we were
Speaker 1: in New York City. She was playing Philly and Lucas
Speaker 1: was playing or. No, you were in New Jersey something
Speaker 1: like that. Lucas was close. Yeah, And of course we'd
Speaker 1: just played Farmmaide and or we getting ready to play Farmmaide. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh so I took the train to Philly from me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I've never seen her, and it was Lucas and Luke.
Speaker 1: Lucas came over and joined us, and but I, you know,
Speaker 1: she said something. Of course, I went to Lucas's bust
Speaker 1: and after that, I was going, like god, and they said,
Speaker 1: Brandy's gonna want you to sing, and I went, oh, no, old, nold, No,
Speaker 1: how long is this last? Lucas, how long he was
Speaker 1: gonna last? He's laugh for a long time. But why yeah,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, that's what happened. I'm going I can't talk.
Speaker 1: I don't know how these guys sing when they do
Speaker 1: that stuff. So we went over and I get this
Speaker 1: bright idea, you know, to come from the audience which
Speaker 1: she introduced me. Yeah, so I forgot to tell her.
Speaker 1: I forgot to tell anybody because she was on the
Speaker 1: board of it. Yeah. So I thought it'd be so
Speaker 1: cool to come from the audience when she So I'm
Speaker 1: what kind of the back And because I don't like
Speaker 1: to be in the audience, I never never have liked it. So, uh,
Speaker 1: I see I coming on stage and whispered something to
Speaker 1: Brandy's here and we can't find her. We can't find
Speaker 1: her anywhere. And I was surprised. I was not surprised.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, if she's meant to be up here,
Speaker 1: she's gonna get up here. Yeah. And so here comes
Speaker 1: Tandy Zucker walking down the middle of it. I solve
Speaker 1: the problem, and I went, oh shit. So I hustled
Speaker 1: down to the front row and I looked and there
Speaker 1: was one seat in the very middle. Yeah, And so
Speaker 1: I went. I grat I went and I sat down,
Speaker 1: And of course it kind of backfired because all her
Speaker 1: fans on the front row recognize me, and then they didn't.
Speaker 1: You know, the twins and her are singing this song
Speaker 1: and and I was really wanting to get into it,
Speaker 1: and they were I gotta tell you this story. I'm
Speaker 1: I want to watch, you know, just give me a
Speaker 1: little time, and they were taking pictures and shit, and I, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Brandy, I just kind of backfired on me.
Speaker 1: But then she introduced me and I crawled up on
Speaker 1: the stage. And but the thing is, I just heard
Speaker 1: her sing at Joni Mitchell's song The Case of You.
Speaker 1: I've never heard the song when she I videoed it
Speaker 1: and and I watch it from time to time because
Speaker 1: I don't watch it a lot because it's very intimidating
Speaker 1: to me. And I watched her sing that song and
Speaker 1: I went, oh my god, I've never heard anything like
Speaker 1: it before in my life, and never in the feeding.
Speaker 1: Its just everything, the presence, the her vocal ability, of course,
Speaker 1: and I just she wanted me, you wanted to sing
Speaker 1: a song when I got up there, and I'm going, like,
Speaker 1: all I want to do is go home? After after
Speaker 1: I heard have I heard you saying, Oh, I really
Speaker 1: want to do is just go home? Well, because there
Speaker 1: ain't no there is nothing that can be better than that.
Speaker 1: The good news is it's not a competition. That's kind
Speaker 1: of like you. She's got a sing like her. Everybody's happening,
Speaker 1: you know, it's true. And you know, sometimes I sing
Speaker 1: like you and there is no competition. That was. But
Speaker 1: it's like when the redd Lynn won Female Vocals of
Speaker 1: the Year. I was fourteen. First time I was up.
Speaker 1: It was in nineteen seventy three and she won Lauretta
Speaker 1: did Yeah for female vocals. I was up. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: saw I was when she went up on the stage.
Speaker 1: I was like, yes, you know, because she was my
Speaker 1: my hero. Yeah, and uh, And there was no And
Speaker 1: I've often said there's not a jealous bone in my body.
Speaker 1: I just don't have a that that kind of makeup.
Speaker 1: It's not my constitution. And you know, though I thought
Speaker 1: about it, just fleeting land. Yeah, it's kind of weird.
Speaker 1: There's no cure. Might have been a little when I
Speaker 1: sort of sing that song just a second maybe, but no,
Speaker 1: there's no really competition. It's like a we're very I
Speaker 1: am and I know she is very supportive of each
Speaker 1: other when there is just nothing there but love. And
Speaker 1: and you know, I told Brandy, I said, I think
Speaker 1: God kicked her off a cloud or something. I said,
Speaker 1: go down there and take care of this someone that
Speaker 1: fell right in my lap. And and I thank him
Speaker 1: for that for sure. Because it was almost it's like
Speaker 1: an enigma. Is that the right word. It's unexplainable. And
Speaker 1: I choose to call it a god thing. That's just
Speaker 1: what I that's my higher power. That's what. That's what.
Speaker 1: That's the name of my higher power is God. And
Speaker 1: I just think that when you can't understand something or
Speaker 1: why it happened, or the reason it happened, and what
Speaker 1: have I done to maybe deserve it have to happen,
Speaker 1: And I just think that's probably what it was beautiful. Well,
Speaker 1: it took a lot more than God. Actually, Rick helped
Speaker 1: make it happen, probably in a way he's not going
Speaker 1: to bring up on this own. How did I help?
Speaker 1: Can I say? So? What? Well? You know you well
Speaker 1: he was always producer. I know, I know he is.
Speaker 1: And I had heard that and I think I had
Speaker 1: my manager's call you and then he told him how
Speaker 1: much he's gonna call it? Scared me? Well, I scared me.
Speaker 1: But what happened was that the process was worrying to Tanya.
Speaker 1: It was stressing her out. And we had written these
Speaker 1: songs and we were sending them to her and she
Speaker 1: was struggling to hear herself in them. And I think
Speaker 1: she was also struggling with the possibilities of what how
Speaker 1: her life could change if she recorded the songs as well,
Speaker 1: even if she didn't really know it, And she kept
Speaker 1: canceling the album like her bus was pointed towards la
Speaker 1: and it was in Austin. Got as far as Austin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the and the final time she canceled it was
Speaker 1: Christmas Day and I was I was so disheartened because
Speaker 1: I just love her so much and I knew it
Speaker 1: was the right thing, and the songs were about her.
Speaker 1: It was a musical biography. And shoot, her and me
Speaker 1: were on the when I was pacing in my garage.
Speaker 1: We were all doing a lot of pacing, and he goes,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, Rick, why don't you call Rick
Speaker 1: Rubin and ask him about this, because it couldn't have
Speaker 1: been easy for him to give Vince Johnny Cash's U
Speaker 1: nine Inch Nails songs and music that he didn't necessarily
Speaker 1: understand at that time. But he had a vision about
Speaker 1: the fact that the young people, that people needed to
Speaker 1: know where their punk rock country music came from. And
Speaker 1: this is how you feel about what women need to
Speaker 1: know and that so many of us need to know
Speaker 1: that this is a country music matriarch that's still out
Speaker 1: there was so much to offer and still doing such
Speaker 1: great things. Why don't you see if you can get
Speaker 1: Rick on the phone. And it didn't even take me
Speaker 1: but an hour before you drove to a place you
Speaker 1: could get cell service and called me and gave me
Speaker 1: some of the greatest advice about Tanie. So I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to interview you, but why don't you talk about No,
Speaker 1: tell me what I said. I remember we spoke, but
Speaker 1: I have no idea about the specifics of the conversation.
Speaker 1: I've told you it's written now. The first thing you
Speaker 1: asked was about my intentions, why I wanted to do it. Yes,
Speaker 1: And I told you what I just told you that
Speaker 1: I was feeling like we were at a I don't
Speaker 1: remember this at all as fascinating. If that would be
Speaker 1: the first question. Yeah, yeah, because he wanted to make
Speaker 1: sure that it was for the right reasons before he
Speaker 1: gave me his extremely valuable advice. That's not a normal
Speaker 1: first question. Well, he's not normal that far from it.
Speaker 1: That's very interest. I told you that I felt like
Speaker 1: we were at a cultural moment when what happened with
Speaker 1: Cash and you could and maybe should happen again within
Speaker 1: regard to the way women have impacted country music culture,
Speaker 1: and while while the one we're discussing is still so
Speaker 1: vibrant and talented, willing to be out there and and
Speaker 1: making beautiful art. And you were like, Okay, great, this
Speaker 1: is the right thing to do. Then basically you told
Speaker 1: me to persevere. And I told you that that the
Speaker 1: album kept getting canceled and that there was a lot
Speaker 1: of apprehension, and you said it was totally normal and
Speaker 1: to be expected. And you gave me a lot of
Speaker 1: really good advice around putting all of my focus about
Speaker 1: whether or not they were the right songs, because I
Speaker 1: was questioning it too, because Tanya does have a knack
Speaker 1: for for hearing great songs. You told me to put
Speaker 1: all of my faith and whether or not the lyrics
Speaker 1: were right for the moment. Yes, and I did. I
Speaker 1: re examined them. I pulled a few and dropped him,
Speaker 1: and I wrote a few and the album was. It
Speaker 1: came together much more authentically after I talked to you,
Speaker 1: and it was spiritually really empowering and enlightening thing. It
Speaker 1: was a total spiritual experience, incredible, you know, it wasn't normal.
Speaker 1: It wasn't one thing normal about it. You're sprints were
Speaker 1: all over it. And I and I called Shooter because
Speaker 1: I'd always wanted you yet, and I sat the band
Speaker 1: down and we really talked about it. Yeah, I love
Speaker 1: it what you did. And I couldn't. I couldn't really
Speaker 1: see the connection, you know so much with the Johnny Cash.
Speaker 1: I mean, I love that whole thing. I mean, well
Speaker 1: you did, but I couldn't see me being anywhere in
Speaker 1: that realm. And she did. Her and Shooter both were
Speaker 1: discussed it a few times. And of course I've never
Speaker 1: really compared myself to to anybody, usually female, No females anyway,
Speaker 1: it's always been two men. Yes, yeah, you do that bitually. Oh,
Speaker 1: we'll be back with more Tanya Tucker and Brandy Carlisle
Speaker 1: after the break, we're back with more of Rick's conversation
Speaker 1: with Tanya Tucker and Brandy Carlyle. I think sometimes it's
Speaker 1: hardest for us to see ourselves. Oh, you know, to
Speaker 1: have someone outside who you know loves you, loves you
Speaker 1: and cares about it. And a stranger, Yeah, who's whose
Speaker 1: only interest is something that's good for you. It's you
Speaker 1: said that too. On the phone side, you said that
Speaker 1: exact thing. Yeah, that's so consistent, you know, because she
Speaker 1: had to make the decision whether to trust it or not. Yes,
Speaker 1: And that was really the only wild card because the
Speaker 1: intentions were there, the music was there. Is she going
Speaker 1: to decide to trust us that we love her and
Speaker 1: that we only have her best interest at heart, or
Speaker 1: is she not? And that was the question that day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I did. I told Brandy, I said, I I
Speaker 1: probably shot those songs off to my old producer crutch Field.
Speaker 1: You know a few of my people that I sounding
Speaker 1: bored people you would hey, And I was really kind
Speaker 1: of wanting anybody to say, no, these songs aren't strong
Speaker 1: enough for you. They're not They're not what you need.
Speaker 1: But nobody did. Wow. Not one person, not one person
Speaker 1: that I respect their opinion on, said anything and said,
Speaker 1: you'll just go out and see what. You can't hurt nothing,
Speaker 1: you know. And that's the other the other part of
Speaker 1: it is, And I can kind of have as you're
Speaker 1: saying that I have a vague recollection of something I said,
Speaker 1: which is, there's no reason not to try it. If
Speaker 1: you don't like it, you don't put it out. But
Speaker 1: at least, but at least see what it is before
Speaker 1: you say you don't like it. Well, you know what.
Speaker 1: That's what Shooter told me. And I was standing on
Speaker 1: top of a tree trunk down in our Texas South
Speaker 1: Trant and he cut the tree and it was about
Speaker 1: that and I got up on top of it to
Speaker 1: get sales service. How do you get here? Because it
Speaker 1: is and Shooter. Shooter said to me that exact thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you don't like it, it's fine, just he said.
Speaker 1: He said, let's just point the bus this way. We'll
Speaker 1: get in a room, you and me and Brandy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll go over the songs. He said, don't even listen
Speaker 1: to him anymore. Yeah, just come to La. We'll get
Speaker 1: in a room and we'll try a few things. And
Speaker 1: if you don't like it, I adn't point back to
Speaker 1: I feel go back home, you know. And he said,
Speaker 1: but I just want you to trust me on this,
Speaker 1: me and Brandy. I'm asking you to trust us. And
Speaker 1: he said, you said you'd do anything in the world
Speaker 1: for me, And I went, oh, you're gonna use that
Speaker 1: car so early in our life. Okay, okay, okay. So
Speaker 1: I got back to Austin, I paced a little while longer.
Speaker 1: She calls him a little whalen. You're awful young to
Speaker 1: use that. And then the really the thing was was
Speaker 1: the ninth I had It was we started the studio
Speaker 1: on the seventh of January. But that's right, the ninth
Speaker 1: I had some time here with Chris. Yes, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I I think that was a if I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be uh talking from my gut. I think that was
Speaker 1: a lot to do with it too. Knowing that I
Speaker 1: was going to be getting him on this song was
Speaker 1: really important to me. But it was important too that
Speaker 1: I did what Shooter asked me to do. God, I
Speaker 1: love him. Did you ever sing or perform with Chris
Speaker 1: ever before in the past? Have I sung with him before? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: it's odd that you paths never crossed, didn't you something
Speaker 1: that we've met? But still in terms of performance, seems no,
Speaker 1: I know, it seemed like it would be a shoe
Speaker 1: in Uh. No, I hadn't and I hadn't seen him
Speaker 1: in probably twenty twenty five years. And gorgeous, Yeah he is,
Speaker 1: And he's just a hunk. He's still can't you can't
Speaker 1: hardly look him in the ice. I just text him
Speaker 1: and they're in New Zealand, so are you guys in Malibu?
Speaker 1: And it was so sweet because the last line I
Speaker 1: needed five of him to say five words at the
Speaker 1: end of the song, amen to that brother and sister,
Speaker 1: just like that. And so I called her Eric and uh,
Speaker 1: Christopherson when they were driving up north. Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: he said, just tell him to pull down below that
Speaker 1: little studio nambulo. And when I said, when you get
Speaker 1: even from the mic, call me, and I was in
Speaker 1: Marina del Rey and he said, he said, what do
Speaker 1: you Christmas listening? What do you want him to do?
Speaker 1: And he did it exactly one day, you know it
Speaker 1: perfect day. It was just again like it was already
Speaker 1: because the reason here, here's the reason why that worked out,
Speaker 1: because you were hearing him actually say those lines because
Speaker 1: that's what he would naturally do. So you knew as
Speaker 1: soon as he told him what to do that he
Speaker 1: was going to be christ Chris Offerson and do it. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's what I felt like when we were writing these songs,
Speaker 1: like I knew exactly how you would sing them. I
Speaker 1: knew where your voice would crack. I knew, and you
Speaker 1: decide to have a little rasp and sing like Elvis,
Speaker 1: I knew everything you'd do before you did it, because
Speaker 1: we were writing them not just for you, but from
Speaker 1: you in this weird way. You know. I can't imagine
Speaker 1: you just just going into a row and going, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's write an album for a person that we don't
Speaker 1: even know, I've never even met with. Because it's a
Speaker 1: person that you love and you look up to. It's
Speaker 1: almost like it's a it's a it's a fantasy version
Speaker 1: of you that they're writing for. It's like, it's true,
Speaker 1: it's a it's an elevated mythological version wow of you.
Speaker 1: You're so right. Yeah, you're so right. I've learned that
Speaker 1: in retrospect in a big way, like, well, yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: she didn't identify with some of these in the beginning
Speaker 1: because I'm projecting. Yeah, because she's a she's a human
Speaker 1: being and you're writing for a myth Yeah oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: a hero superhero. Yeah. Wow. Did you feel that way
Speaker 1: while you were selecting songs for Johnny Cash? Absolutely, it was.
Speaker 1: It was to some degree. It didn't matter. It was
Speaker 1: more that the songs had to fit the myth of
Speaker 1: Johnny Cash than the real person. Yes, exactly. Wow. So
Speaker 1: it's a good thing or a bad thing. It's great. No,
Speaker 1: for the fans, it's great. Yeah, yeah, it's great. It's art.
Speaker 1: We're making art. Yeah, and maybe it's the only way
Speaker 1: you could do it. Yeah yeah. Like a Mustang Ridge,
Speaker 1: it's about first of all, it's there's grains of truth
Speaker 1: in it because there are all places that she's lived.
Speaker 1: There's not a single place that's made up. Whether it's
Speaker 1: Wild Bros Pass or the Hay Street Bridge, they're all
Speaker 1: real places. But like Mustang Ridge is about a woman
Speaker 1: who escapes from you know, prison and steals a car
Speaker 1: and then disappears, and nobody knows whether she killed herself
Speaker 1: or whether she just made it made it out. But
Speaker 1: it's Tanya, and she's Tanya in the song and she's
Speaker 1: breaking out of prison. It's a metaphor. But it's like,
Speaker 1: of course that's not the real Tan yet she's not
Speaker 1: really you know, she's not really gonna film on Louise
Speaker 1: it by herself. But for some reason, like that's just
Speaker 1: the way I'm do you want you want to play
Speaker 1: that song now? Sure, Keiley, there's a guitar right there.
Speaker 1: Oh I don't know how to play it? Actually, not
Speaker 1: not to physically play at ten plays it Wow, but
Speaker 1: we can. Yeah, yeah, sure. We wrote the lad right
Speaker 1: we had learned to play guitar. I learned. Yeah, uh
Speaker 1: be fun to listen to. So this is what you
Speaker 1: call a podcast. I didn't know what a podcast was.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they're amazing. Everybody loves him now. It's like
Speaker 1: the new It's just not just a radio interview. No
Speaker 1: it's not. It's different. It's not much different, but it's
Speaker 1: just for the Internet. It's a radio interview people actually
Speaker 1: listened to. Oh okay, here we go. At the end
Speaker 1: of all this song, she'd finish it and she'd say
Speaker 1: something like, hey, I'm gonna add liver from way back.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, you know, it's just
Speaker 1: like stuffs. I guess what was wild too about it too,
Speaker 1: is this experience in the studio because everything was done
Speaker 1: there when we went before we left the vocals Sunset sound. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was great, great studio. It's awesome. I think I
Speaker 1: did something with a little Richard there years ago. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure, but I think so with Don Walt. But
Speaker 1: it was a lot. It was mostly live. I mean,
Speaker 1: everything was recorded like me and like me and Billy
Speaker 1: recorded back in the first songs I ever did with
Speaker 1: Delta Don all those all those songs that were the
Speaker 1: first ones with Billy Sheryl we I did live. I mean,
Speaker 1: if somebody messed up, we had to start over, you know.
Speaker 1: And I never did get a set of headphones. He
Speaker 1: wouldn't let me have him. I had some kind of monitor,
Speaker 1: thin monitor on both sides of my head, which I
Speaker 1: can't understand how it didn't leak. You just didn't care
Speaker 1: if it did. But I mean, it was just Some
Speaker 1: of those records are still my favorite records. And of
Speaker 1: course I've never had anybody in the vocal booth with
Speaker 1: me the whole time, either the whole time, every every no,
Speaker 1: and you know, and a couple of things. I mean
Speaker 1: I I ripped off from her, Yeah, like and the
Speaker 1: palm trees are reaching reaching I read that off from you, yeah,
Speaker 1: thirty years ago. Yeah, that's funny. So we just keep
Speaker 1: keep the circle going, never going back to Mustang Ridge
Speaker 1: is a great phrase. It just has a musical sound
Speaker 1: to it, and and it sounds like, you know, I
Speaker 1: want to learn more about it. Yeah, It's like it
Speaker 1: paints a picture but leaves enough mystery that you want
Speaker 1: to feeling. Yeah, you go like writing good writing. Yes,
Speaker 1: I gotta credit the twins. Oh ye, So my boys
Speaker 1: were all these years, they really dove into this with me,
Speaker 1: and we all fell so deeply in love with Tanya. Well,
Speaker 1: I asked him. I text him, this is the way
Speaker 1: after the record? What's a hob nail? What's a jam boozy?
Speaker 1: And how how do you write songs about someone you
Speaker 1: don't even know? He goes, well, they him. Both of
Speaker 1: them said they just drove around their cars listening to
Speaker 1: my music, and I guess googled me a lot and
Speaker 1: fell in love. They said, So I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean, I wonder why I was doing it at
Speaker 1: the time. You know, well, I was probably There's a
Speaker 1: landscape landscape of Tanya Tucker too. There's like a you
Speaker 1: know this exactly like this projected fantasy of poverty and
Speaker 1: a track from Texas through Arizona and Las Vegas and
Speaker 1: this this migration to Nashville that happened in a series
Speaker 1: of cars and trailers and eventually busses, And yeah, it
Speaker 1: paints quite the picture. You could. I could make ten
Speaker 1: albums about ten years life. You know, it's amazing to
Speaker 1: me when you think when I think about it, And
Speaker 1: I guess I didn't really think about it until someone
Speaker 1: brought it up recently and said that, you know how
Speaker 1: very major this is of you at sixty one, kind
Speaker 1: of having a research in my career, you know. And
Speaker 1: they said it was a guy. He said, can you
Speaker 1: imagine how much hope that's giving so many people that
Speaker 1: you know think because you're not twenty five, you can't
Speaker 1: have a hit record or be palatable to the music
Speaker 1: buyer or the music lover, And I go, wow, you
Speaker 1: know it kind of true. One of the greatest things
Speaker 1: about it was that she spent half the time singing,
Speaker 1: working so hard, harder than anybody my age, anybody I know,
Speaker 1: working so hard, never once getting irritable or frustrated or
Speaker 1: upset with herself or anyone else. And then the rest
Speaker 1: of the time sitting in a control room share just
Speaker 1: like that man, spreading and telling the most incredible stories
Speaker 1: about country music and the road and her dad and
Speaker 1: just I don't know, you just really carry yourself with
Speaker 1: a lot of dignity. And I was really proud to
Speaker 1: be in there with you. Well was she so interested?
Speaker 1: You know? It wasn't like it was an interview, but
Speaker 1: it was so interested. Now you're you're fascinating words and
Speaker 1: to listen to. Well, you won't get that from me
Speaker 1: because I mean, I can't. I can't agree with that
Speaker 1: because I'm me. But once you once you were in
Speaker 1: the studio, did it feel better? Oh? It come more
Speaker 1: comfortable with me? You had anxiety before, thinking this might
Speaker 1: not be for me, But then when you actually heard
Speaker 1: the music and you're in the room with the people,
Speaker 1: did it feel like, oh, this is a good experience. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I mean from the moment I walked into the studio.
Speaker 1: Of course, I had two mics on at all times,
Speaker 1: you know, because we're documenting in that name, which I
Speaker 1: think it's the only way to documentary. You have to
Speaker 1: document can't wait for your fantastic can't wait see it?
Speaker 1: And I don't know why we haven't done that in
Speaker 1: the past. It's I thought, film everything everything whose idea
Speaker 1: was that? That was all that was? Probably it was
Speaker 1: over there, but I set it up ten hours before
Speaker 1: the sessions. I called it. The best filmmaker that I
Speaker 1: know called Kaplan and tin Fish Productions, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I think something's gonna happen tomorrow. Tanny Tucker's coming to
Speaker 1: the studio. She might turn around and leave. I don't
Speaker 1: know what's going to happen, but can you just be
Speaker 1: there to capture it? Because it might be crazy, it
Speaker 1: might be amazing. And she's like, I'm supposed to be
Speaker 1: in the UK, but I'm canceling it. And she showed
Speaker 1: up with a real film crew, real out of Mike's,
Speaker 1: real sound crew and everything, and then she never left
Speaker 1: and she felt a cutt and they love you. We
Speaker 1: haven't made a documentary that's extended beyond the studio into
Speaker 1: her first shows. Beautiful's Birthday, we first walking onto it
Speaker 1: arena stage and over a decade or two and it's
Speaker 1: it's incredible. Wait to see it when I'm and I'm
Speaker 1: used to be in Yeah, I had a reality show
Speaker 1: for a couple of years on TLC Tucker Chucker Bill,
Speaker 1: but I'm just I'm used to it, so that was
Speaker 1: not a problem for me. In fact, I most time
Speaker 1: forgot that they were even there. But it really felt comfortable.
Speaker 1: I think, and I've always said that I think the
Speaker 1: best way, my best feeling of all that I could ever.
Speaker 1: If I had to pick one word that I would
Speaker 1: that I want to be even over pretty, overwhel and
Speaker 1: all that stuff. I just want to be comfortable. It's
Speaker 1: my favorite feeling. And when I'm comfortable, I can do
Speaker 1: my best. It's when I'm not comfortable that I can't
Speaker 1: perform my best. And so that was that was laid out.
Speaker 1: That was that was something and I look back on
Speaker 1: and I when people are asking me since we've done
Speaker 1: the record, I look back on that and think, wow, yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember that. When Sheeeter came out and you came out,
Speaker 1: we met outside the studio, and then when I walked in,
Speaker 1: it was like it was a feeling of a comfort
Speaker 1: that I hadn't felt in a while, beautiful, and it
Speaker 1: was a really comfortable How has uh, how do you
Speaker 1: say your relationship to music has changed from the early
Speaker 1: days to now. I don't know if it's changed or
Speaker 1: just kind of grown it just kind of did it
Speaker 1: start for you more as work or more as love
Speaker 1: in the studio? No period in your in music your
Speaker 1: relationship to music in life. Wow, that's a good question.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm a little torn on that because,
Speaker 1: you know, being from a you know, I mean, we
Speaker 1: were poor, but I didn't really pay much. I mean,
Speaker 1: it wasn't something you know, you're only poor if you
Speaker 1: choose to be, you know that kind of that Dolly
Speaker 1: said in that one line. I love uh, But it
Speaker 1: was more I think when I if I really want to,
Speaker 1: if I think about it hard, I think it was
Speaker 1: something that made my dad happy. Yeah, and he enjoyed
Speaker 1: when I would sing, And I knew that, and I
Speaker 1: think that he saw a way out of to get
Speaker 1: his family out ahead and have a career and a
Speaker 1: few So it was always based on money, trying to
Speaker 1: get ahead, trying to get something that I could buy,
Speaker 1: buy my parents a new house, you know, of living
Speaker 1: in a trailer house and new car my mother, and
Speaker 1: you know, it was always money. Was motivated. It was
Speaker 1: motivating me. I think that's what started it out. But
Speaker 1: then I think as I've moved on and went through
Speaker 1: different stages of my musical career and my life, it's
Speaker 1: developed into more of a love. I mean, I know,
Speaker 1: one got to you know, pay the bills. It makes
Speaker 1: sense what you said about when your dad passed, Yes,
Speaker 1: and then your mom passed, It's like, why am I
Speaker 1: doing this anymore? Because they're the ones I did it
Speaker 1: for him. Yeah, it does make that was the whole reason.
Speaker 1: Can I make an observation? Actually, it's it's very interesting
Speaker 1: and you're poor and you're talented, because it's like what
Speaker 1: happens is ambition. Yeah, ambition and love and money get
Speaker 1: really distorted. You can't you can't untie them, and then
Speaker 1: you get this thing I like to call poor kid
Speaker 1: work ethic, where yeah, you love it, but you're willing
Speaker 1: to work hard, so incredibly hard to prosper and provide
Speaker 1: for your family whoever that is. That's what if you're
Speaker 1: the kid, even if you're the kid, because your ambition
Speaker 1: and your love for music is tied up in the
Speaker 1: need for means and it's actually kind of okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: like why shouldn't be Cluse my dad was so involved?
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, he I mean I always say if
Speaker 1: it wasn't for my dad and Billy Sheryl, they never
Speaker 1: would they never ghawd you know they never were. In fact,
Speaker 1: they I don't think it had more than five words
Speaker 1: to each other. But they're very different kind of people,
Speaker 1: very different kind of uh just totally different kind of men,
Speaker 1: and both of them were very powerful and I couldn't
Speaker 1: have done it. I can't imagine who've done it about
Speaker 1: They recognized that they were in proximity to absolutely once
Speaker 1: in a lifetime voice that's never been replicated and never
Speaker 1: could be replicated to, which was also you well and
Speaker 1: you know what. And I think another thing is too
Speaker 1: that Billy Cheryl listened to me. Yeah, yeah, talk about it,
Speaker 1: listened everything, respected you. He I don't know how many
Speaker 1: I was when they come in and Al Gallico, you
Speaker 1: know remember Al Gallico, he's a well he's a he
Speaker 1: was a big publisher and he had the publishing. I'm
Speaker 1: the happiest girl in the whole us say that Donna
Speaker 1: Fargo first song she came out with and it wasn't
Speaker 1: out yet. So he had those single and he had
Speaker 1: had control of it because he was the publisher, and
Speaker 1: he played it by a big cigar hang out of Hey,
Speaker 1: hey he's tall you and he said, I get a monster.
Speaker 1: I guy brought you a monster. So all of Billy's cronies,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, Narl Wilson, George Richie, all those guys,
Speaker 1: they're about five or six of them come in there
Speaker 1: to see his reaction because they felt like, wow, we've
Speaker 1: we've got the red, we've got the hit and they're
Speaker 1: looking back onto retrospect. They were. They were playing it
Speaker 1: for Billy Sheryl to get him to ask you to
Speaker 1: do it. Yes, okay. So I'm sitting over in the
Speaker 1: alcove kind of right there, and I remember exactly what
Speaker 1: I had on, and I got my legs crossed, and
Speaker 1: they played the song and Billy looks over at me
Speaker 1: and he says, what do you think about that song? Kid?
Speaker 1: And I I, you know, I didn't hesitate. I said,
Speaker 1: I think this song was really a good song, but
Speaker 1: it's not my song. Yeah, and that's in my exact words.
Speaker 1: And he said, you heard her boys, and they they're
Speaker 1: going up because Billy wasn't a little left to center,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh and uh. They were scratching their heads
Speaker 1: when they walked out, including now Gallico. They were going like,
Speaker 1: he's lost it. He is listening to a kid, you know.
Speaker 1: And so when they all left, he put, you know,
Speaker 1: I've seen him thread that thing that really real and
Speaker 1: Megan times and he said, you know, he said, I
Speaker 1: heard it check on the Tonight Show last night, and
Speaker 1: I didn't never know who that was. He said, but
Speaker 1: she sang a song I think he might like. Let
Speaker 1: me let me play it for you, but he played
Speaker 1: me a guitar vocal of Alex Harvey singing She's forty
Speaker 1: one started out, She's forty one didn't start out because
Speaker 1: and when he got done playing that song, I looked
Speaker 1: at him and I said, now that is my song,
Speaker 1: and see if we can find that version seventy two.
Speaker 1: Let's see it is your song. And we didn't live
Speaker 1: and many people have done it. But and I never
Speaker 1: ever had any problems with him about what I wanted to.
Speaker 1: You know, Columbia Records didn't think enough about me to
Speaker 1: even have a more than a three pre song deal.
Speaker 1: They didn't think I'd even get to an album, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh, looking back on it, but when I did,
Speaker 1: when we did go back in and cut an album,
Speaker 1: every everyday he saw any album I did with him,
Speaker 1: which was four four, if it's available anywhere, or if
Speaker 1: it was just like a weird fluke thing that he
Speaker 1: managed to get his hands, Yeah, I he never did.
Speaker 1: I never. The only time he ever gave me a
Speaker 1: little problem was when I wanted to cut almost persuaded
Speaker 1: and hit a song he wrote, and uh, he said,
Speaker 1: I don't think he should cut that ouselve too adult
Speaker 1: for you. I don't know. I think no, no, after no,
Speaker 1: after all the songs, you know, Daddy left them both
Speaker 1: soaping up the sawdust on the floor. I mean, all
Speaker 1: the songs were adult. Would you lay with me in
Speaker 1: a field of stone if my needs were strong? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You know those were all so it wasn't being too adults.
Speaker 1: I think that because he wrote it and he didn't
Speaker 1: want to be you know, I guess I didn't want to.
Speaker 1: People think he was just doing it because it was his,
Speaker 1: it was my cho Tell me if this is the
Speaker 1: right version, I'll tell you instantly. We'll be back with
Speaker 1: more Tanya Tucker and Brandy Carlisle. After the break, we're
Speaker 1: back with more of Rick's conversation with Tanya Tucker and
Speaker 1: Brandy Carlyle. Those are the two Alex Harvey Delta dons.
Speaker 1: Oh oh, you're talking about Alex Harvey. No, that was
Speaker 1: just I don't think that's ever been out. Was just
Speaker 1: a guitar vocal demo. But the chick was a Bette
Speaker 1: Midler and she had sung Delta don I see, but
Speaker 1: that wasn't the version you heard, No, because she was
Speaker 1: not That was not the version. No, No, she did
Speaker 1: it before pett Miller did it before you. Yes, that's
Speaker 1: what he said. He said, there's a chick you on
Speaker 1: the Tonight Show, Tonight Show last night. So it wasn't
Speaker 1: Alex Harvey and but he played when he played her
Speaker 1: Alex and I didn't find out till years later that
Speaker 1: it was Bette Midler. Wow, that actually did the song.
Speaker 1: So why does history remember that as so? And Helen
Speaker 1: Ready cut it a year and a half. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: later everybody, everybody really sees that as your song. It
Speaker 1: is you like your song if you were dealt to
Speaker 1: do and it even though it had been cut die
Speaker 1: on Dave Davidson. I think he had a single on it.
Speaker 1: It had been cut us a few times. I love
Speaker 1: nothing compares to you. We think of not his Prince's song. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the same. It's like, doesn't matter who who wrote
Speaker 1: it or who put it out first. It matters who
Speaker 1: owns this. Yeah yeah, it's like well he uh we
Speaker 1: you know. We recorded the next morning. It was at
Speaker 1: ten ten o'clock studio time. Of course I was tired,
Speaker 1: so because I'd been my daddy, I said, just keep
Speaker 1: playing it, keep playing it for him, and keep I
Speaker 1: want to learn it as good as I could then,
Speaker 1: not before, and and we got to Columbia Records, the
Speaker 1: studio b and uh it was well. Actually we went
Speaker 1: into his office, Billy's office, and it was ten o'clock,
Speaker 1: and I laid down on his couch and I slept
Speaker 1: till he let me sleep till noon, and he finally
Speaker 1: come there and got me the sister. The session started
Speaker 1: at ten. He's like, do you think you're ready to
Speaker 1: You know, it's something about your career, kid, And I
Speaker 1: got up and we did it live with the Nashville
Speaker 1: Edition and the Jordanaires and all the greats pig Robins
Speaker 1: and some of the greatest musicians Pete Drake, On Steele
Speaker 1: and Charlotte McCoy and Harmonica. So, in fact, we're going
Speaker 1: to go back in and recut it, and uh, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm gathering all the as many of the original players
Speaker 1: that are still around to go back in and and
Speaker 1: uh and do a version that's gonna be a lot
Speaker 1: of fun. It's gonna be And Lou Bradley engineered we
Speaker 1: played the drums, so he's, uh, oh, well he's gone,
Speaker 1: he's gone. He in fact, he passed about a month
Speaker 1: and a half ago, Jerry Kerrigan one of the great
Speaker 1: great drummers, one of the great drummers. So I think
Speaker 1: we're gonna get either I think it was Eddie or
Speaker 1: Paul Eddie Bears or Paul Lym, one of those guys. Cool.
Speaker 1: But now we're just trying to put that together. And
Speaker 1: then Brenda Lee, you know, I'm gonna cut that song
Speaker 1: and she wrote for me and her you hear it,
Speaker 1: T and other. It's so cute. I mean, it's so
Speaker 1: precious that Brenda Lee, one of my heroes, would write
Speaker 1: a song about me and her, Brenda Lee love. I
Speaker 1: don't care what it would be. I Mary had a
Speaker 1: little aamb I'd want to cut it, you know. So,
Speaker 1: but you know, you used to people would ask me,
Speaker 1: what would you enjoy more. You'd enjoy performing live or
Speaker 1: you enjoy recording better. And the answer to that was
Speaker 1: always I enjoy performing more than being in front of
Speaker 1: an audience. Yeah, being in the studio painting my nails
Speaker 1: a lot. I flipped a lot of the studio, you know,
Speaker 1: my one time my producer didn't even show up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: most of the time when I did T and T.
Speaker 1: She is incredible life. But it's unbelievable. It used to
Speaker 1: be alive. But the answer would have to be now
Speaker 1: being in the studio because I love the creation that
Speaker 1: create the creation of music and the creativity and the cambaraderie.
Speaker 1: Uh they let's try this. Yeah, you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: how many producers does it take to screw in the
Speaker 1: light bulb? I don't know, what do you think? But
Speaker 1: I mean I enjoy You know, it's hard to say
Speaker 1: what you like. I mean, I love both of them.
Speaker 1: I mean I have to do both of them are
Speaker 1: very like you said, you can't separate them really, but
Speaker 1: I really enjoy the process now and I've been working
Speaker 1: on a couple of projects that I have. I mean,
Speaker 1: I have two albums that are almost ready to go.
Speaker 1: If someone said you got a week to finish them,
Speaker 1: we'd have it done. So I've not been twiddling my
Speaker 1: thumbs and not doing anything. It's just I couldn't get
Speaker 1: anybody interested. Yeah, when's your next TWAR date? Do you know? Uh? Well,
Speaker 1: the next show is, uh tomorrow now, Yeah, tomorrow tomorrow,
Speaker 1: the next day, two nights. Yeah it's going to be great. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll hope, We'll hope. So we were going and try
Speaker 1: to like an old troupa door. You know that was
Speaker 1: written by a girl, which is kind of interesting, that
Speaker 1: George Straight song. Here's an old troupa door. You heard
Speaker 1: that one? Yeah, of course, and that was written by
Speaker 1: a girl, which I think is kind of different. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed that process. Uh. And I thought just
Speaker 1: about the time I thought I'd done a record, made
Speaker 1: a record every which way you could make one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: then long comes Brandy and Shooter and another another way
Speaker 1: of spiritually another way up there either yeah, yeah, the
Speaker 1: the all the others were, I don't know, there's no
Speaker 1: there's no comparison really to the the feeling I had
Speaker 1: making the record beautiful, the comfort level beautiful, And it
Speaker 1: sounds like it reminds you of when you first started
Speaker 1: making records. Everybody's in the room together, yea, to that
Speaker 1: that time. And you know, I'm not so sure I
Speaker 1: would have been able to do it if I hadn't
Speaker 1: had that experience with really Cheryl, Yes, you know, but
Speaker 1: you know I've always been a live person. It very live.
Speaker 1: I mean, even with my producer Jerry Jerry Crushfille, who
Speaker 1: produced thirteen albums in a row on me and the
Speaker 1: way I found out the way I got him. I
Speaker 1: talked to my old lawyer and I videoed it. What
Speaker 1: everything on video because I wanted to ask him. Bill Carter,
Speaker 1: he was the Rolling Stones lawyer and a secret service
Speaker 1: and he was my attorney at that time, and I
Speaker 1: want I asked him. I said, how did I get Crutchfield?
Speaker 1: Because I had just come off snuff Garrett in a
Speaker 1: studio and Santa Monica did had two number one records.
Speaker 1: But I told my dad, I go, I can't work
Speaker 1: like this. It's like I'm on a damn assembly line
Speaker 1: and everybody's reading it. There's like he don't even want
Speaker 1: me there. When I'm for the basic tracks, I'm going like,
Speaker 1: what if it's in the wrong key, Well, we'll just
Speaker 1: manipulate the track. Yeah, And I just couldn't. I was
Speaker 1: just turned sixteen and I couldn't fathom that. You know.
Speaker 1: Of course hal Blaine was playing the drums, and I
Speaker 1: love that it's one of the great players. But I
Speaker 1: didn't like that way of working. And I told my dad,
Speaker 1: I said, Daddy, I can't I feel like I we
Speaker 1: cut this album ten minutes, you know, everything's real fast.
Speaker 1: And al Capps was the arranger who really I think
Speaker 1: did most of the work on that, on that, on
Speaker 1: those records, and he was hot hot at that time
Speaker 1: with all the share records. You know, he's tramp something.
Speaker 1: And uh, I said, I can't. I just not. I'm
Speaker 1: not comfortable. I can't. So he he told Snuff, he said, well,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, we're gonna to let you go. And of
Speaker 1: course Snuff, you know, blue a gasket. I at that time,
Speaker 1: I asked my attorney, I said, He said, well, what
Speaker 1: we're gonna do? You know? He who's gonna produce? Now?
Speaker 1: I said, We'll go back to Nashville. Yeah, that's where
Speaker 1: I feel comfortable there. I don't like this out here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody's reading, you know. It's just it just didn't feel right.
Speaker 1: And he said, well, who are you thinking about? I said,
Speaker 1: whoever produced that song? Please come to Boston. I said,
Speaker 1: I want that guy, and that was Jered Crutchville. And
Speaker 1: so when we connected up that we pulled more shots
Speaker 1: than you think you did. We we oh no, no.
Speaker 1: Now that when I look back on it, I think, God,
Speaker 1: dang it, you know, I should have more faith in
Speaker 1: myself because I really directed a lot of these things
Speaker 1: and kid as a kid, and why do you put
Speaker 1: two singles on an album and the rest you just
Speaker 1: why can't we have a ten singles? Yes, that was
Speaker 1: my thinking, and accord with the band, and then tour
Speaker 1: with another one. Yea, why can't we put those together? Yes? So,
Speaker 1: and don't put a saxophone on my record when I
Speaker 1: don't have one in the band, you know, or have
Speaker 1: at least two way you get to one, you know.
Speaker 1: And so I had all these I think thoughts and
Speaker 1: wonderer and why do you do this? And why? And
Speaker 1: several times, I mean I've told crutch Fill I said, man,
Speaker 1: that mix, I can't do the mix it makes you
Speaker 1: got to remix it. I went out and he played
Speaker 1: strong and to prebend the album, the whole album, and
Speaker 1: I walked out and I cried in the parking lot.
Speaker 1: I said, oh my god, and my father and my
Speaker 1: two older children was with me. He goes, what's wrong?
Speaker 1: It was? It sounded great and I went, no, oh
Speaker 1: my god, No, he's got to remix it. So my
Speaker 1: ears are just so uh. I mean, I've got really
Speaker 1: great ears. Yeah, and you tell me the barn but
Speaker 1: when you you feel it and you know it yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's like nothing that there's nothing to argue or
Speaker 1: discussing about it. It's like you the feeling you don't
Speaker 1: don't argue with me. I had that argument last night
Speaker 1: or this morning, you know when you know, I just
Speaker 1: don't argue. This is what I If you want to
Speaker 1: work with me, let's do it like I want to
Speaker 1: do it now. If you want to, if you want
Speaker 1: to pay all the bills and pay me, I'll do
Speaker 1: it your way. Yes, but no that you know, I
Speaker 1: feel like my ears have been a thorn in my side,
Speaker 1: a blessing and a curse at the same time. Yes,
Speaker 1: because I have trouble with my in ears. Yes, And
Speaker 1: I said, I don't understand why they go. What did
Speaker 1: you want you? What are you missing with sound check?
Speaker 1: You know when you're sound checking first show and monitor guy,
Speaker 1: Because I've I've been through them. I've been through them.
Speaker 1: I've had twenty in I mean, I'm I've fired him
Speaker 1: before I got off stage sometime because I said, if
Speaker 1: you're hearing when I'm here, and you let me stand
Speaker 1: out there hearing this shit, then you gotta go because
Speaker 1: what happens is what I'm hearing. If it sounds bad.
Speaker 1: I think that's what they're hearing, and the it's always well,
Speaker 1: it sounds good out front. I go, why can't I
Speaker 1: enjoy it too? If they're going to enjoy it, why
Speaker 1: can't I just hear it like they hear it. You know,
Speaker 1: my mom for the last five years or so has
Speaker 1: been the studio engineer I work with when we made
Speaker 1: Firewatcher's Daughter in Bear Creek, So like he cultivated this
Speaker 1: monitor mix for me that makes no sense to anyone
Speaker 1: else about It makes no sense to anyone else, but
Speaker 1: to me, it's like a limb. I can't do without it.
Speaker 1: And it's like it's how I hear my voice. And
Speaker 1: if I don't have that, I eq my monitors with
Speaker 1: my voice. So I push harder, I round out vows,
Speaker 1: I hardened hard consonants, and I hurt my voice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I didn't used to think I was picky because
Speaker 1: I'm a bar singer, but like because this guy wants
Speaker 1: you to feel like you fill in the studio, like
Speaker 1: when you're making a record. He's got my monitor mix
Speaker 1: in a way that's like now it's on this like
Speaker 1: priceless little thumb. I can never lose it. I swear
Speaker 1: I've threatened to quit about every show. It's a hard thing.
Speaker 1: I just want your mind, if you if they're hearing
Speaker 1: what I'm hearing in my ears, Oh my god. Well
Speaker 1: I don't, but you know, I guess it's the same principle.
Speaker 1: So they are saying I have to leave, Is that right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: In like, oh, well, I feel like I've known Rick forever.
Speaker 1: I feel like i've you know, like maybe I mean,
Speaker 1: if Willie's right about this reincarnation deal. I mean I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think he is, But if he is, maybe
Speaker 1: that's the deal. You know, maybe we met some other
Speaker 1: you know, I would I would be so inspired and
Speaker 1: amazed if you guys ever worked together and did something
Speaker 1: just just to I would love to do, you know,
Speaker 1: I because I feel like I know what Rick would do,
Speaker 1: and I think it's gonna happen at some point. We'll
Speaker 1: figure out what that is. Surprised me, Yeah, it would
Speaker 1: be awesome. Well, it's so funny because I Johnny Cash,
Speaker 1: you know this story when I well farm It was
Speaker 1: the first farm Aid and I was on Merle's bus
Speaker 1: and he was chewing out Mark Rothball. He was really
Speaker 1: upset with him, and I said oh, I would turn
Speaker 1: around to leave, and he went stay right there, and
Speaker 1: I guess he wanted me to hear whatever he had
Speaker 1: to say to Mark and as I don't know why,
Speaker 1: but he he gave me this hat and so skip ahead. Well,
Speaker 1: went left his bus and went on the stage. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then it was a circle stage, so half of
Speaker 1: it was getting ready and the other half was doing it.
Speaker 1: And I think Melancamp was on, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you know, everywhere you looked it was. It wasn't anybody
Speaker 1: you didn't know. Everybody was a star, you know. And
Speaker 1: all of a sudden I heard Dan you and and
Speaker 1: Marty Haggard, and LIST said, so, I think my Johnny
Speaker 1: John Johnny Cash was holder than you. And I looked
Speaker 1: around and there it was. It was like the parting
Speaker 1: of the Red Sea. The people just kind of like
Speaker 1: they knew that he was talking to me and the
Speaker 1: music's going on, but I could hear him very well.
Speaker 1: So it turned and I thought, wow, I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: meet him, you know. So I started walking down to him.
Speaker 1: He started walking do me, and we met in the
Speaker 1: middle and he goes, I just wanted to say hello
Speaker 1: and hug your neck. And of course the first thing
Speaker 1: I said was, well, I said, I've been writing. I've
Speaker 1: been trying to write this song. I get this. I
Speaker 1: got this idea for a song. But I said, you're
Speaker 1: the only hoss that could sing it. So if you
Speaker 1: don't like it, then I ain't gonna write it, you know.
Speaker 1: And he said, I thought, well, you know, let's meet
Speaker 1: up next week. We'll sing a little bit of it
Speaker 1: to me. And of course it was just an idea,
Speaker 1: you know, so I had to come up with something.
Speaker 1: So I was just like, look back, Oh, you didn't
Speaker 1: have one. I had the idea, and I and and
Speaker 1: so he goes sing a little and I'm thinking, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll look back. I went to help me out here,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm said a little prayer. And so then
Speaker 1: not only did I I started singing it, but I
Speaker 1: started for imitating him, which is so funny. I whoa,
Speaker 1: you got the man in black feeling blue? This is
Speaker 1: you know, came out my ass because I had nothing else,
Speaker 1: you know, and you got I just came get over,
Speaker 1: getting all over you. I sang with what is riding?
Speaker 1: I standing for what is true? But you got the
Speaker 1: man in black feeling blue? You know, and that's all
Speaker 1: I had. I was amazed to come up with that
Speaker 1: wow tea and he goes, I like that, Well, I'll
Speaker 1: go see later. By So I go home with Neil
Speaker 1: Young on his bus. I'm going like, where was my dad?
Speaker 1: And then what? Then? My dad just prepared me for
Speaker 1: those things, is what it was. And he knew how
Speaker 1: to he knew he could trust me. So I'm on
Speaker 1: Neil Young's bus going home. I get home, they take
Speaker 1: me home to Nashville. And the next day, I think
Speaker 1: it was Marty Stewart maybe called me and said cash
Speaker 1: once that song, I said, Jesus, it's not a song,
Speaker 1: it's an idea for a song. And so when they
Speaker 1: were filming the movie stage Coach, I went down and
Speaker 1: saw Chris and took a path. I think it might
Speaker 1: have been the last time I saw him. And then
Speaker 1: they went to Tucson and me and Billy Joe Shaverer
Speaker 1: were kind of hanging out and writing some songs together,
Speaker 1: and they were about done a stage coach and I said,
Speaker 1: you know, well, then more boys are all I'll guarantee
Speaker 1: you they're all mad at each other right now. You
Speaker 1: know wait, you know Chris Sink talking to Whalen Wade
Speaker 1: and spissed off at Willie and and I guarantee you
Speaker 1: you're gonna they're mad at each other. Just go down there.
Speaker 1: I got him a plane ticket to Tucson. I sent
Speaker 1: Billy Joe Shaver down there. I said, and this is
Speaker 1: just kind of stuff like we're talking about, like things
Speaker 1: that come out of my mouth. And then they happened.
Speaker 1: I said, you're gonna get you. Willie's gonna be by
Speaker 1: the pool. He's gonna be by the pool, and he's
Speaker 1: just about down to the worm, you know, and he's
Speaker 1: gonna be drunk on his ass. I said, but you
Speaker 1: just go and you go to Johnny's. John gash his room.
Speaker 1: And I figured the best way to get him to
Speaker 1: cut that song was to get him to finish it,
Speaker 1: you know, to write it. And I said, he'll cut
Speaker 1: it if he writes it, if he finished it. So
Speaker 1: they did. They finished it. They finished the song. But
Speaker 1: and I asked John Carter the other day if maybe
Speaker 1: he'd had it recorded it or something, you know, put it,
Speaker 1: put it down before he passed. But it was exactly
Speaker 1: the way Billy Joe walked in and went out to
Speaker 1: the pool and there was Willie just on his butt.
Speaker 1: Me and Rick, we're just talking about this when you
Speaker 1: went to the bathroom. So you do these ideas right
Speaker 1: that wind up being songs for other people or whatever,
Speaker 1: because you say these things come out of your mouth,
Speaker 1: are a little bit inspired, like earlier when you said
Speaker 1: that you felt like when you lost your parents there
Speaker 1: was more love behind you than there wasn't you, which
Speaker 1: is a song, yep, but like soon to be soon
Speaker 1: to be a song. But when we made this album,
Speaker 1: you were sitting in it just like that in the
Speaker 1: control room, and you were telling me that you called
Speaker 1: Loretta up on the phone. He told her that you
Speaker 1: had one of your ideas, which was bring my flowers now.
Speaker 1: While I will need your love when I'm gone, don't
Speaker 1: spend time, tears or money on my old breathless body.
Speaker 1: If your heart is in them flowers, bring them now,
Speaker 1: bring them on in the end, And I was awe struck.
Speaker 1: And of course we had the documentary cures who were
Speaker 1: recording the whole thing. I recorded it. I was like,
Speaker 1: send me that to my phone. Ten you went home.
Speaker 1: I played it for Shooter and Shooters like you got
Speaker 1: to write that song. And me and she didn't get
Speaker 1: out of it this time, wanted out, but she had
Speaker 1: to sit at the piano with me and she had
Speaker 1: to write that song and it became the title track
Speaker 1: and really the kind of deep inspiration behind what the
Speaker 1: album actually is. And the album got named while I'm living.
Speaker 1: Your ideas are more they're more penitive than you inter
Speaker 1: then you think that they are, Like, is it true
Speaker 1: that you wrote the idea? If you're you're the I
Speaker 1: got some motion front property in Arizona. From my front
Speaker 1: porch you can see the sea. I got some motion
Speaker 1: from property in Arizona. If you buy that, I'll throw
Speaker 1: the golden gate in free how much? So that was
Speaker 1: your So let's see what was the deal is that
Speaker 1: Dean Dilon and I were hanging out. We were just
Speaker 1: like connected at the hip, you know, and he's one
Speaker 1: of my favorite writers of all time. And then everybody
Speaker 1: say like, if you believe that, you know, I got
Speaker 1: some swamp land to say you in Louisiana, And I'm thinking, well,
Speaker 1: there is swamp land in Louisiana, So what the hell
Speaker 1: it should be like if if you believe that I
Speaker 1: got some motion front property in Arizona, you know, And
Speaker 1: that came out of my mouth and Roy Sporter and
Speaker 1: Dean Dilan and we're sitting at his house and that
Speaker 1: just kind of that's a that's what happens song. And
Speaker 1: nobody knows that Tanya Tucker spit that line out. No,
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't, but it doesn't. See you do
Speaker 1: it all damn day. Yeah, I have to keep on
Speaker 1: taking Roger Miller's place, you know Roger Miller songwriters. You'd
Speaker 1: see I'm everywhere all around him and if he went
Speaker 1: somewhere because I said anything, will say something many minutes
Speaker 1: and that am now. I mean I have friends, I
Speaker 1: mean Dennis Quaid included that has a pad, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: they write things down. I do it. I do it
Speaker 1: all day. And actually Rick's even doing it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: wrote down the same line that she wrote. It's funny.
Speaker 1: You really are right. I got a lot of them.
Speaker 1: You really are an inspiring person and you don't know it.
Speaker 1: And that's what makes it so true. No, I have no.
Speaker 1: I mean, I sometimes I feel so inadequate. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure that you know everybody must feel that way at
Speaker 1: some point, but uh, and feel like I mean, you
Speaker 1: would question when you're around her. It's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I got a lot to learn. But and she's so
Speaker 1: available and for me and and at any time, and
Speaker 1: it's been really a wonderful thing. But you know, I
Speaker 1: always would strive to want to be better, no matter
Speaker 1: if I'm cooking a chilly rihanno, or if I'm writing
Speaker 1: a song, or if I'm out riding my horse in
Speaker 1: a in a competition. You know, I just want to
Speaker 1: be the best I can be. Like that, what was
Speaker 1: that one commercial? I mean that says the American Express
Speaker 1: don't leave home without it. Don't don't leave home without
Speaker 1: I say, don't stay home with it. Don't stay home
Speaker 1: with it? You know. I mean, so I've got this
Speaker 1: commercial mind of I love writing commercials. You know. I'm
Speaker 1: held by Madelon in a career out of it, didn't
Speaker 1: he And so there's so many ways and so many
Speaker 1: things to be done that I've yet to do. And
Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes I'm running out of time energy,
Speaker 1: ye know, I'm running out of time. Well it's amazing
Speaker 1: because I have epstein bar and that's the chronic fatigue.
Speaker 1: And some days I I don't know how I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get out of bed, but I do and but then
Speaker 1: you get up on stage and shake your hips like Elvis. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then come off and fall fall the floor. But
Speaker 1: it's uh, I guess, I don't know. They asked me
Speaker 1: what I want to be remembered for, and I guess
Speaker 1: I'm still working on that answer. I'm I guess a
Speaker 1: good person that was had a good nature and was
Speaker 1: always ready to help somebody, you know, always always on
Speaker 1: the front row. Yeah, farted for the cannon. I feel
Speaker 1: like you're just getting started. I said, this sounds this
Speaker 1: aulbms a great place to start, like that as well
Speaker 1: as that's what I tell you once somebody has interviewed me,
Speaker 1: I said, well, it's a start. Forty six albums later,
Speaker 1: there are many many starts. Oh and I think that,
Speaker 1: and they'll say you only you only live once. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you live many times, you only die once. There you go,
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying? Yeah? Are you writing that? My
Speaker 1: writing so many Rick, it's all day it's all day long.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, just a walking song. Yeah. But to
Speaker 1: be inspirational and to inspire people to to write or
Speaker 1: do whatever whatever it is they do. If I can
Speaker 1: inspire them to do and be better at what they do.
Speaker 1: It inspires me to be better. But when you have
Speaker 1: done it for me and you have to as well,
Speaker 1: thank you annoyingly but maybe because I haven't really met you,
Speaker 1: but I've know I feel that that connection for sure,
Speaker 1: and I've always said it, but just that price was
Speaker 1: just a little too Thanks to Tanya Tucker and Brandy
Speaker 1: Carlisle for coming through Shangrilad Tape Broken Record at the
Speaker 1: Tanya Tucker dot com to check out when it tours
Speaker 1: coming through your town, and you can check out her
Speaker 1: new album produced by Brandy Carlyle and Shooter Jennings on
Speaker 1: our Spotify playlist app, Broken Record podcast dot com and
Speaker 1: while a're there, sign up for a behind the scenes newsletter.
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with help from Jason Gambrell and
Speaker 1: Melobelle Or. Theme music is by Kenny Beats. Stay tuned
Speaker 1: for next week's episode with the Black Keys. I'm justin Richmond. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean I go, I can talk, you're here, I say,
Speaker 1: I'll talk too much for me an alcoholic alcoholic. Thanks
Speaker 1: to Tanya Tucker and Brandy Carlile for coming through Shanglade
Speaker 1: Tape Broken Record at the Tanya Tucker dot com to
Speaker 1: check out when a tour is coming through your town,
Speaker 1: and you can check out a new album produced by
Speaker 1: Brandy Carlyle and Shooter Jennings on our Spotify playlist at
Speaker 1: broken record podcast dot com, and while you're there, sign
Speaker 1: up for a behind the scenes newsletter. Broken Record is
Speaker 1: produced with help from Jason Gambrell and Melobelle. Or music
Speaker 1: is by Kenny Beats. Stay tuned for next week's episode
Speaker 1: with the Black Keys. I'm justin Richmond, h