1 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: Y'all, you don't always get the call when you work 2 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 1: cold cases. It could be five years, ten years, twenty 3 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: five years before you get that call. But honey, the 4 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: family of Melissa Wolfenberger got that call. Joining me today 5 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: is Melissa's mama, Norma and sister Tina. Norma and Tina 6 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: welcome to his own seven. Thank you, sir, Honey. It's 7 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 1: been twenty five years for you and Norma, for you 8 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: and I. It's been seven seven years since you walked 9 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: into an event where I was speaking, and you had 10 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: an eight y ten picture of Melissa, and you walked 11 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: up to me and said, my daughter was beheaded in Atlanta. 12 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: Will you help me? 13 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 2: That's exactly what I did. 14 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: Well, you've been fighting a long time, and you've been 15 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: talking to a lot of people, taking that eight y 16 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: ten picture with you everywhere. So I want to give 17 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: just a little background. In nineteen ninety eight, Thanksgiving is 18 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: the last time you spoke to your daughter Melissa. Right, 19 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: What happened? What happened after that? 20 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 3: What happened after that is I didn't hear anything else 21 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 3: from her. I mean she didn't call Christmas, you know, 22 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 3: after she had asked for a specific gift for Christmas. 23 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 3: She didn't want anything that was store ball. She wanted 24 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 3: something that I had to look for and find to 25 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 3: be able to give to her. I had to look 26 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 3: through a lot of pictures to find a good one 27 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 3: that I liked and thought that she would like. And 28 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 3: then when she didn't show up, she didn't call. 29 00:01:59,280 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: I got word. 30 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: All she wanted was a picture of her and her grandfather, right, 31 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: he called it Papa, And she didn't come. Get it 32 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: the sentimental gift, right, Tina, When did you first know 33 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 1: that Melissa was missing? 34 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 4: When my dad walked into the restaurant where I worked 35 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 4: at and said, where's your sister? 36 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: I said, I don't know. 37 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 4: You hadn't talked to her. He said no, he said 38 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 4: she didn't. You know. We talked to her Thanksgiving Day. 39 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 4: Christmas Day she didn't come. She didn't even call your 40 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 4: mama for her birthday. And that, right there was the 41 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 4: sign because Listen always called Mama. 42 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: So that's when now the whole family by February is 43 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: word sick yep So April of nineteen ninety nine, a 44 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: skull is found in the middle of Avon Avenue and 45 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: your mama normally you're watching the news. 46 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 3: I was because I didn't know where she was. If 47 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 3: they said anything about a body being found anywhere on 48 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 3: any of the local channels, I would always stop and 49 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 3: watch the news. And when I sat down and watched 50 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 3: the news, you know, they said it was a mail 51 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 3: and I said, okay, And then I thought, well, Avon 52 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 3: Avenue is I think on the north side of town, 53 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 3: because you know, in going around two eighty five, I 54 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 3: saw an exit that had Avon Avenue and I said, well, 55 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 3: that's north side of town, not in the same area. 56 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 2: So I kind of brushed it off. 57 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: So you were somewhat relieved that that wasn't your child, right, 58 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: and then the skulls identified as a Caucasian mail. So 59 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: we move on. Now, something else happened in your life 60 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: that was difficult. At this same time, your husband, Carl 61 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: is arrested four years later. Four years later, so Carl 62 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: is arrested for several murders that occurred in the seventies. 63 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: Right around that same time frame that Carl Is arrested. 64 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: He decides, Hey, I'm going to tell the truth. I'm 65 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: going to cop to it. I'm going to tell him 66 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: I did it. I'm going to keep Norma out of it. 67 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to just go into court, raise my hand 68 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: and confess to all of it. 69 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 2: And that's exactly what he did. 70 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: In three separate courthouses in three separate counties. 71 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 4: Yeah. 72 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: So I'm just going to state very clearly Carl Patten 73 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: is a convicted killer. Carl Patten has admitted it. He's 74 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: never lied about it once they came to him. Carl 75 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: and I have been exchanging letters since twenty twenty one. 76 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: When I started on this case. It was important for 77 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: me to have contact with Melissa's father, mother, and sister 78 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: to develop an accurate victimology. Through those letters, I learned 79 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: a lot. I learned a lot about Carl. I learned 80 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: a lot about the Patent family. I learned a lot 81 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: about Norma and Tina. I learned about their loyalty, their 82 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: love for each other, and their unwavering devotion to get 83 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: justice for Melissa. So Carl goes to prison and he says, 84 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: you know what, Norma, I'm here, I'm stuck here. I 85 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: can't search for Melissa. I can't do anything to try 86 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: to help find her or solve the situation for y'all 87 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: as a family. So he reaches out to the person 88 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: that arrested him, and he says, hey, you caught me 89 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: after twenty five years. You must be a pretty good detective. 90 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: Will you help look for my daughter? And to his credit, 91 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: that detective said yes. So he goes out and he says, huh, 92 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 1: there's a skull unidentified and it's literally feet from the 93 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: front door of where Melissa's husband works. So he goes 94 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: to the Atlanta Police Department and says, are you sure 95 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: this this is a male? And they get the dental 96 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: records and what happens Norma. 97 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 3: On March seventeenth, two thousand and three, he pulled up 98 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 3: in my yard and I saw him when he pulled up, 99 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 3: and I walked outside on the porch and he come 100 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 3: up standing there talking and he told me she had 101 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 3: been identified and what had happened to her. 102 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: And I just. 103 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 3: Busted out screaming and yelling, and my two oldest grandkids, 104 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 3: which were Tina's, came. 105 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,679 Speaker 2: Out to see what was wrong. What I was upset about. 106 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: Tina, you are literally walking down the street and you 107 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: get a phone call from a friend that says, hey, girl, 108 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: of you watch the news. 109 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 4: Oh no, it wasn't a friend, it was my ex husband. 110 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: Oh well, let me change that now because I don't 111 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: want that out there in the universe. Okay, okay, but 112 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: that's the important thing because again, even an ex husband 113 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: would reach out to you because this was going to 114 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 1: be so devastating for you, and he knew it. So 115 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: what does he tell you? 116 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 4: I said, I don't think Mom wanted to be the 117 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 4: one to notify me like that, so he took it 118 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 4: upon himself to do it. 119 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: I was too upset to make that call. 120 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, So now you have confirmation that Melissa was beheaded 121 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: and dismembered, because you know from the news there was 122 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: a skull found in April, but that same June of 123 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, four more trash bags were found containing 124 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: her arms and legs and no norma. That to me 125 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: is an unbearable scenario to know that that is your baby. 126 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 2: It was, and it's been it's been hard. 127 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: Well it'll forever be hard. And Tina, you and I 128 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: have talked a lot, and I know you. I know 129 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: you now pretty good, and you know, what do you 130 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: do with it? You're now the surviving child. Your dad 131 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: is in prison, your mom is destroyed, and you are 132 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: now in the middle trying to help make your mama, 133 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: work through it, get through it, survive it somehow. You've 134 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: got your children, You've got Melissa's children, You've got your dad, 135 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: and you have been the one to me that has 136 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: glued this family together. 137 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 2: I've tried. 138 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 4: It's not easy, Oh. 139 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: I know. I remember the phone call when you told 140 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: me you were headed somewhere to burn some stuff down. So, 141 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: and those are just natural feelings. I mean, you get frustrated, 142 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: you get angry, of course, and especially when things just 143 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: seem so unjust. She did not deserve what happened to her, exactly. 144 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: And I have said over and over over and I 145 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 1: will say it again right here. The sins of the 146 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: father have nothing to do with what happened to Melissa. 147 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: And here's the deal about Carl. I'll say it again. 148 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: Carl's in prison. Carl deserves to be in prison for 149 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: what he did. But what happened to Melissa she did 150 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: not deserve in any way whatsoever. Nope, she sure didn't. 151 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: And with what Carl did, that doesn't mean that something 152 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: should be able to happen to Melissa and we not 153 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: get justice for her. There should never be a killer 154 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: walk in the streets free. None of us should be 155 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 1: okay with that? 156 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 4: Nobody should be okay with that. 157 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: So the reality is now, y'all. Now the Atlanta Police 158 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: Department knows they have a homicide of Melissa Wolfenberger. That's 159 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: a completely different scenario. So they start to look at 160 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: the facts. Did her husband report her missing? Did her 161 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: family report her missing? When was the last time she 162 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: showed up at work? When was the last time she 163 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: showed up anywhere she was supposed to be court, a 164 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: doctor's appointment, to vote? Where was she was there any 165 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 1: sighting of her? Was there any phone call, any letter, 166 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: anything since nineteen ninety eight? And the answer was no, nothing. 167 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: And so her husband said, well, I saw her. She 168 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: was walking down the street and she told me she 169 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: was leaving to go to California to start a new life. 170 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: And then he said she left over another man. Then 171 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: he said she left because she was going to be 172 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: doing some counterfeit identification cards and passports. I mean, he 173 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: has said several things that just don't make any sense. 174 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: And here's the bottom line. Would Melissa have ever left 175 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: her children? 176 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 3: No way on this earth would she had left those 177 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 3: two kids. When I had my old bits tooth down here, 178 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 3: she helped me every day, take care of them, and 179 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 3: she loved them just as much as she did her own. 180 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 3: She bought the year that Timberly started school, Well, let'sa 181 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 3: got clothes for her to wear to school. There is 182 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 3: no way, there's no way on this earth that she 183 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 3: would ever leave those babies. 184 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: Every time there's a case where there's small children, and 185 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: in this case they were one in two years old, 186 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: and you hear somebody say, well, she just took off. 187 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: She just left she wanted a new life. That doesn't 188 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: ring true. And in this case, she didn't have a car, 189 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: she didn't have any money to speak of. She didn't 190 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: take any clothes, she didn't take any jewelry, she didn't 191 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: take anything that meant something to her. And I'm going 192 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: to tell you again the only thing that child wants 193 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: for Christmas was a photograph of her and her grandfather. 194 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 1: This was a family oriented child. And I'm going to 195 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: tell y'all something, Can you be two things at once? Yes, 196 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: you can be a sex worker and a fantastic mother. 197 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: You can be a doctor and a roller derby queen. 198 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: You can be a preacher and a breakdancer. I mean, 199 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: you can be these things that seem polar opposite that 200 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: are not if that makes any sense. And when you 201 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: look at Melissa's life, there is no way if she 202 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: wanted to leave Christopher. Listen, y'all. We can leave a man, okay, 203 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: because we can get another one. May not be a 204 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: good one, but we can get another one. But we 205 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: don't leave our children because we can't get those children back. 206 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 4: Anytime Melissa left him, she wanted to take the kids. 207 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: She always went back to the children. And when she left, 208 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: he hounded her and hounded her to come back, tracked 209 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: her down, but not but not. In nineteen ninety eight. 210 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 3: He tracked her down one time, but he didn't track 211 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 3: her down in December when she Dick left. 212 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: That's right. He didn't have to, That's right. He didn't 213 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: have to. He knew where she was. Same reason he 214 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: didn't call you asking you have you seen her? He 215 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: didn't call Tina, have you seen her? He didn't call work, 216 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 1: he didn't call anybody. She was even on probation at 217 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: the time. He didn't reach out to the probation officer. 218 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: He had called them before to tell them stuff about her, 219 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: but he sure Lord didn't after nineteen ninety eight, Sure didn't, y'all. 220 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: Have twenty five years. Y'all had some roadblocks. Y'all had 221 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: no activity at times. Y'all have changed detectives over and over. 222 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: People retire, they transfer out, they get promoted out. You've 223 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: had different ada's assistant district attorneys. You've had to reintroduce 224 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: yourself to the ada's and reintroduce Melissa to make sure 225 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: they knew who she was. You've had to go through 226 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: the change of the da y'all have gone from Paul 227 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: Howard to Fannie Willis. 228 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: Thank God for that. 229 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 3: We tried to get an appointment with Paul Howard and 230 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 3: we're told that we couldn't even make an appointment without 231 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 3: her file being on his death. 232 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 4: We couldn't even get past the front door. 233 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: Cheryl and then a high school friend of mine, Donna Jones, 234 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: meets Tina. Yeah, and you know, Donna and I have 235 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: known each other since nineteen seventy nine, and me and 236 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: Donna and Walk went to college together. We've just had 237 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: a great time and she's a tremendous person. So when 238 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: Norma walked in, I noticed her right away. And this 239 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: was like a kind of a formal dinner type event. 240 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: And Norma walks in and she's got like Bermuda shorts 241 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: on and a tank top and a straw hat, like 242 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: she just came off the beach. It was hot, it 243 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: was hot, it was absolutely hot. But I noticed her, 244 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: and I noticed she was hugging an eight by ten frame, 245 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: so I knew it was somebody's mama and they were 246 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: either missing or murdered. And again when she walked up 247 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: to me, she said, this is my daughter, Melissa, and 248 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: showed me the picture. Beautiful, looked so kind, looked so 249 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: sweet in the picture she was And she said she 250 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: was beheaded in Atlanta. Will you help me? And I said, 251 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: well yes, I mean, how in the world do you 252 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: say no to that? And I said, you know, come 253 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: to my office next week and let's talk about it. 254 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: And that was twenty seventeen. And she came the very 255 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: next week, and y'all, she brought a case file. It 256 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: took about two hand trucks to bring it in, I think. 257 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: And she walked in and she sat down and she said, look, 258 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: I know you've already said you would help me, but 259 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: there's something I got to tell you before we go 260 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: any further. And I said, okay, and she said, my 261 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: husband is in prison. For murder and I helped him 262 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: and if that's okay, will you still help me? And 263 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: I thought to myself, I don't know that anybody has 264 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: ever been more honest with me in their life, because 265 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: I'm in a business where people lie to me pretty 266 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: much every day all day. And so I told her, 267 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: of course, and then she starts talking about her husband, 268 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: and I went, wait a minute, is your husband the 269 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: Flint River Killer? And she said yes, and then she said, 270 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: and he hates that moniker, he hates that nickname. So 271 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: after that meeting, we decided to put together an action 272 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: plan and we went to work, and we had several 273 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: experts that joined us, so willingly donated their time and talents. 274 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: And it's the first time in history that a convicted 275 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: cyril killer became an actual victim of crime, reached out 276 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: to law enforcement for help, who then reached out to 277 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 1: a nonprofit for help, the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute. 278 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: Then what happened was a new DA was elected and 279 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: Fannie Willis became the DA of Fulton County. Before she 280 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: took office, she agreed to meet with me and I 281 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: laid out five cases that I thought she could solve 282 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: relatively quickly. They were all, of course cold cases. I 283 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: should have said that one of them was Melissa Wolfenberger. 284 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 1: And Miss Willis told me that she was going to 285 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 1: put together a cold case unit, and she knew who 286 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: she wanted to head it up, and then she was 287 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: going to put together a task force and wanted me 288 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: on it. The first assistant district attorney that she put 289 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: over the cold case unit was Adrian Love. And when 290 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: I tell y'all, Adrianan Love hit the ground running and 291 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: went to work. She met with me and Karen Greer 292 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: and Norma and Tina and Dwayne Thompson and Trey Sargent 293 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: out at the crime scene. She walked it. And here's 294 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: the other thing. She knew the whole history. She knew 295 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: the whole family history. She knew where Karl was, She 296 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 1: knew what had happened in the seventies. She knew everything. 297 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: When she went over to the car and your mama 298 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 1: was sitting in the passenger seat and they just talked 299 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: and your mama was able to give her the victimology 300 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: as only a mama can. And she watched that dog work, 301 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: Trace worked two of her canines. Doctor Thompson was out 302 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: there with the metal detector. Karen Greer was out there 303 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: covering it. And I'm going to tell you Karen's involvement 304 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: has been invaluable. He has stayed on this case for 305 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 1: twenty years, maybe the whole twenty five, but I know 306 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: for a fact twenty and she has been devoted and 307 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: she's just been on this thing, is all I can 308 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: tell you. And then we had another big push and 309 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: another big person to come up and help. Nancy Grace said, 310 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: I want to cover it. I won't end Norma. Do 311 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: you remember the day I called you and said, Nancy Grace, 312 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: won't you on her show? Yeah? 313 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 3: I said really, or something along that line. 314 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: No, I think it was really. I think that's exactly 315 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: what happened. And we knew at that point we're going 316 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: to get some national attention. And when that sort of 317 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: thing starts to happen, the first thing I pray about 318 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: is please somebody come forward. Please somebody hear about this 319 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: and remember something, or maybe call and say, hey, eight 320 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: the police never interviewed me, but here's something that I 321 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: know because in cold cases that happens all the time. 322 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: So you and Tina again put it out there, buck 323 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: up and get your emotions all twisted because this is 324 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: not you know, this is not easy for y'all to 325 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 1: talk about. You'll feel it the whole day. It, you know, 326 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: brings everything to the surface, so to speak. But there 327 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: you are. And honey, Nancy Grace did what only Nancy 328 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: Grace could do, and she stirred that pot. Baby. It 329 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: was awesome. And then she comes to me and she says, 330 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: you know, you need to do a podcast. And I'm like, 331 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: I ain't got time to do a podcast. I don't 332 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: know how to do a podcast. I'm not even sure 333 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: what one is. And she said, well, I'll help you, 334 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna get you some folks. So, along with 335 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: Karen and Trace and a ton of other experts came 336 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: on and we did I think a seven or nine 337 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: part series on Melissa's case, the series that we did 338 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: on Zone seven Normal. We of course had you and Tina, 339 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: We had the original detective Detective Calhoun. We had several 340 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: of the experts Karen Greer, Tray Sargent, Dwayne Thompson, Joe 341 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, just unbelievable talent and expertise to help. And 342 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: there have been other people like Betsy Ramsey and Leslie 343 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: Bailey and doctor Joni Johnson and Joe Jackalone and Lisa 344 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,239 Speaker 1: Ribakoff Mooney, all of these people have said, yes, I 345 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: want to help. Yes, I see that we can get 346 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 1: this into the finish line. Well, then when once Nancy 347 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 1: Grace got involved, she took us to Crime Con. We 348 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: did a live Wine and Crime there. Then we did 349 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: a live Crime Stories with Nancy Grace right from the stage. 350 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: Well then that led us to Dateline because there was 351 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: a producer there that I talked to and I was like, look, 352 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: y'all need to cover this case because I think there's 353 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: some folks out there and if we shaking up trees, 354 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: somebody's gonna be able to come forward. From the series 355 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: that we did on Zone seven, a witness came forward. 356 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: Now that by itself, to me was amazing that Nancy 357 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: had covered it, Dateline had covered it, Crime Con had 358 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: covered it. All of this information is out there, and 359 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: that led this person to Zone seven. Once they heard 360 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: every single episode, they reached out to me on social 361 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: media and said, are you still covering Melissa's case? Well, honey, 362 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: I couldn't type back fast enough yes. And then they 363 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 1: said that they had some memory of the way that 364 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: Christopher treated her at a party once. So now I'm thinking, y'all, 365 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: this thing actually just got some new legs. So I 366 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 1: reached out to Detective Shepherd, gave him the information, and 367 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 1: he was on it. I mean immediately he talked to 368 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: the person, interviewed person, and then he went back and 369 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: interviewed Christina, Melissa's daughter, And then some dominoes started to 370 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: fall pretty quick, didn't they. 371 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 4: Yep? 372 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: All right, Tina, talk about that a little bit. What 373 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: started to happen pretty quick? 374 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 4: Oh boy, Let's see. We went to crime Con and 375 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 4: then every six from Orlando, it's been pretty much NonStop. 376 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 1: And people keep asking. So from crime Con, we got 377 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: a call from the Georgia Writers Museum and they said, 378 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: can y'all come here and do a wine and crime 379 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: as well, which we did, and Joe Scott Morgan joined us. 380 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 1: Now I want to talk about Norma just a minute. 381 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: She loves her from Joe Scott Morgan, y'all, and when 382 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: he walked into that room. For those of y'all that 383 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: are fans of body bags, you're making the right decision, 384 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: But you need to be a fan of Joe Scott. 385 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: He is one of the most comforting, calming, reassuring people 386 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: I've ever met. 387 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 2: Compassionate. 388 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: He is so compassionate. The day that we got the 389 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: call that Christopher Wolfenberger has been arrested for the murder 390 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: of Melissa Wolfenberger, I thought Joe Scott almost had a 391 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: better reaction than Norma because he knows Norma, he knows Tina, 392 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: he has worked this case. He went through the autopsy 393 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: like nobody else could have done it. He gave her information, 394 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: not as an expert to a crime victim. He spoke 395 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: to her parent to parent with as much love and 396 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: concern as I've ever seen in my life. So they 397 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: love his voice, They love his the way he just 398 00:24:55,280 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: presents himself with such confidence and such joy. But the 399 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: reality is, I think that y'all knew y'all had a 400 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: true advocate in him. Yeah, we do, you do, absolutely so. Again, 401 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 1: he came over to Atlanta from Alabama and was with us, 402 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: and then the Hamptons who done it up in New 403 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 1: York called and said, can you present the whining crumb here? 404 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 1: So you literally have people from all over the country, 405 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: from the five thousand people that were at crime con 406 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: from all over to New York, to Alabama. I mean, 407 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: you've just got people invested in what happened and most 408 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 1: importantly the unjust of it that everybody wanted to see 409 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: somebody in custody for this murder. Norma, how are you 410 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: feeling right now today? 411 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 3: For lack of a better description, on Cloud nine, this 412 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 3: has been a busy couple of days. But I just 413 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 3: I feel like I'm a lot younger than what I am. 414 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 3: I'm walking a little faster and getting things done, and 415 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 3: you know, it's just been it's been amazing. And Karen 416 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 3: Greer when I found when I found out he had 417 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,479 Speaker 3: been arrested, and I called you and you were out 418 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 3: of town and found out Karen Greer was out of town. Well, 419 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 3: Karen Greer called me yesterday to check on me to 420 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 3: see how I was doing after the press conference. 421 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: And see, I just want to say something. I love her. 422 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 1: I adore her, and this is one reason why. And 423 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: I have said over and over and I'm going to 424 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: say it again. As good as she is on TV, 425 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: she is better when that camera's off. She It's the truth. 426 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: She is lovely and kind and generous. But I'm going 427 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: to tell you something. Her heart, she leads with it. 428 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: There have been more than one time where she and 429 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: I have been at a scene, and Melissa's crime scene 430 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: was one of them. And she would turn to me 431 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: and she would say, I am no longer a reporter 432 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: and you are no longer a crime scene investigator. We 433 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: are two mamas standing here. And that's how she feels. 434 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 2: Chera. 435 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,479 Speaker 3: When we were at crime Con last year and she 436 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 3: I was sitting on the side, she was probably fifty 437 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 3: feet away from me as she walked by, and I 438 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:44,159 Speaker 3: glanced up and realized it was her, and I yem back, Karen, 439 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 3: and she turned around and she thought what she where 440 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 3: she was headed and come back up to me to 441 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 3: talk to me. 442 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: Well, she's been in this thing. I mean, she's been 443 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: in it longer than I have, and just stellar and 444 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: again and leads with her heart, and she's devoted to Melissa. 445 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: She's devoted for justice. And I can't say nothing but 446 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 1: I just love her. I adore her, I respect her. 447 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: I got nothing but accolades. And she always looks fawless. 448 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: Good lord. So y'all had her. Y'all had Nancy Grace. 449 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: Now let's talk about that spitfire for a minute. You know, 450 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: Nancy is another one you know exactly how she feels. 451 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: She can't hide it, and I know when we did. 452 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 2: Her show, she puts it out. 453 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: She puts it out there. But you know she she feels. 454 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: And here was the really touching thing. She called me 455 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: after Crime Stories of Nancy Grace when she broke the 456 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: news about the arrest, and she said, you know, this 457 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: is the anniversary of Keith's murder. No, and she said it. 458 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: She said, it's always just under the surface, and any 459 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: thing can make it rise to the top. It could 460 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: be a song, it could be you know, his favorite food, 461 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: it could be a memory. But when this kind of 462 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: thing happens, you know, she feels it on more levels 463 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: than most people because she has lived losing a loved 464 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: one to murder. So she's connected to y'all in an 465 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: extraordinary way. So again, her heart on this thing is 466 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: pretty clear now, Tina, you at the press conference were extraordinary. 467 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: And in that moment when you could have been selfish 468 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: and you could have talked all about your sister, all 469 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: about your mama, all about you and everything that y'all 470 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: have done and your dad to get justice for your sister, 471 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: you didn't do that. You took the opportunity to thank 472 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: other people, which you did not have to do in 473 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: that moment, and then you di the most extraordinary thing 474 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: that I've seen. Through your tears and your heartbreak, you 475 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: stopped to help other people, tell everybody what you did. 476 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 4: You know, it was like I had so many emotions 477 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 4: going right then, just like I still do. 478 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:19,479 Speaker 2: I don't know. 479 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 4: I'm happy one second, and next second I'm in tears, 480 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 4: and then I'm happy again, and then my heart's breaking again, 481 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 4: like it's back twenty five years ago. You know, I 482 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:37,719 Speaker 4: have tried so hard to be strong for my mom, especially. 483 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 4: It's a little different with Dad because Dad's strong, but 484 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 4: I can see Mom and how she is suffering because 485 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 4: her and Melissa were so close. But I thought, really 486 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 4: really hard to get this done for my sister. But 487 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 4: I couldn't have done it by myself and you and 488 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 4: Nancy Grace and Karen Greer. I love all three of y'all. 489 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 4: I cannot get up there and not say that if 490 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 4: it wasn't for y'all, we wouldn't be standing there because 491 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 4: we wouldn't be If Donnah had to introduce me to you, 492 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 4: Mom would have never met you. We would have never 493 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 4: met Nancy Grace. We would have never met Karen Greer, 494 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying. And I had to tell 495 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 4: them people, thank you. And I had to tell Atlanta 496 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 4: Pde thank you, even though you know, at times I've 497 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 4: been like dag, I'm get off your butts, guys, but 498 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 4: you know. 499 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I had to calm her, had to calm 500 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 3: her down quite a few times. Her and her pearl too, 501 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 3: her dad. It was I had both of them. 502 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 2: I said, y'all got to be patient, this think. 503 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 4: I but mom and dad do not have patience. 504 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I've had. I have called her a Carl 505 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: Junior more than once. 506 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 4: So even better, I have a customer that grew up 507 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 4: with my daddy that cost me hot Shot Junior. There 508 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 4: you go, Hotshot because that's my daddy's nickname. 509 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: So Tina again, I appreciate that so much. You will 510 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: never know what that meant to me personally, just to 511 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: hear you say that, and it really touched me. And 512 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: Huck and Caroline were like, Mom, that was so crazy. 513 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: She would say that you know about you, but it 514 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: means a lot to me. You have no idea, But 515 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: what I'm asking is what you did in that moment, 516 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: which was so selfless when you tried to protect other people. 517 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: What did you say from that podium? 518 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 4: You know my sister was it was she suffered with 519 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 4: domestic violence. Chris abused her. I don't know how many 520 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 4: times I saw her with bruises and scratches and handprints 521 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 4: around her throat. And you know I could not get 522 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 4: her to listen to me as much as I tried, 523 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 4: And I mean I tried really hard. Mom and Dad 524 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 4: have no idea how much I tried to get Melissa 525 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 4: away from Chris behind doors. 526 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. 527 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 4: And I do not want my sister's case, her death, 528 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 4: her murder, as brutal as it was, to be in vain, 529 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 4: to be for nothing. There's got to be a reason 530 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 4: why it happened. And to me, it's to help other people, 531 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 4: to get other domestic violence people out of what they're in. 532 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: Amen. I believe that, and I believe you and Melissa 533 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: are going to be able to save a lot of lives. 534 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 4: Tell me Melissa's story, maybe somebody will actually listen and realize, Hey, 535 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 4: this could be me, this could be my mama, this 536 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 4: could be my sister, this could be my daughter. Come on, 537 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 4: y'all wake up. Domestic violence is real. It's not a lie. 538 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 4: It's not a made up thing that Hollywood made up. 539 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 2: It's true. 540 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 4: It's real and it happens every day. 541 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: Amen, normal. Where are you headed when we hang up? 542 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,760 Speaker 3: As soon as we hang up, I'm headed to Coastal 543 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 3: State Prison where Carl is to be able to sit 544 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 3: down and tell him about this week and everything that's 545 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 3: going on, because he needs to hear it. He's had 546 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 3: some help she's recently and he needs to something. 547 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 2: To hold on to. 548 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: You know, this case got started because a detective went 549 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: to the prison met with Carl. Carl he would help him. 550 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: And one of the things that touched me so much 551 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: is we got the call on Tuesday, but Carl wasn't 552 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: going to be able to call home till Thursday, so 553 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: he wasn't going to know there was an arrest. But 554 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: ab Calhoun, the original detective, I. 555 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,919 Speaker 2: Called him to tell him about the arrest. 556 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: Tell us what he did. 557 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 3: He was the fourth person I called, and when he 558 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 3: had said the phone, he said, I'm sitting here waiting 559 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 3: on your call. 560 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 2: I said, okay. 561 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 3: So anyway, on the conversation, he asked me about Carl 562 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 3: as he did quite frequently, and I told him Carl 563 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 3: didn't know, and he wouldn't know till Thursday because that 564 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 3: was when he was going to call home. 565 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 2: He said, I know some higher up. I don't know. 566 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 3: I don't have the number, but I know who to 567 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:05,720 Speaker 3: call to get the number. I said, okay, So anyway, 568 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 3: we ended the conversation and he got on apparently got 569 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,320 Speaker 3: on the phone. When Carl called me Wisday. He told 570 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 3: me that that man went to Coastal State Prison. They 571 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 3: called him out at eleven o'clock on Wisesday morning and 572 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 3: told him that the rest was made and he and 573 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 3: he screamed and jumped up and down as loud. 574 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 2: As I did. 575 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: Unbelievable. So that, to me is just that full circle 576 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: moment where you have a detective that started this investigation 577 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: and he saw to it again father to father. He 578 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: knew Carl needed to know, he had a right to know, 579 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: and he made that happen. So I will forever be 580 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: grateful for Detective Calhoun. 581 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 3: I called him back after I talked to Carl, and 582 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 3: I told him. When he answered the phone, he said, yes, ma'am, 583 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 3: and I said, I just wanted to tell you, thank you. 584 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 3: And I told him when they got down there, and 585 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 3: he kind of wondered why why I waited to Wednesday morning, 586 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 3: but I figured that was because of the storm they 587 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 3: had down there this week. 588 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: Sure. Absolutely, Yeah, I texted him as well. And when 589 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: I texted him, just how grateful I was and how 590 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: just touched I was by that. I don't even know 591 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: what you would call it. 592 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 2: He told me. 593 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 3: He said, ma'am, you don't ever have to thank me. 594 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: That's again, that's the kind of caliber of folks that 595 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 1: have been involved in this case, I think throughout, and 596 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: I just thought that was a lovely sentiment. Oh sorry, 597 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: that kind of got to me a little bit, because again, 598 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: you know, just father to father, he wanted to, you know, 599 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 1: make sure that happened for him. 600 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 4: Just like he did when it first all happened. He 601 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 4: was the one to go down there and tell Dad. 602 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: When Melissa was first identified formally, Detective Calhoun drove down 603 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: to the prison to make sure that he told Carl 604 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: in person what had happened to his child, and the 605 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,800 Speaker 1: fact that he would then make sure that Carl knew 606 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: twenty five years later that an arrest had been made. 607 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: I mean, that's just part of this story that I 608 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: think gets to me and chokes me up because again, 609 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: at that point, just like Karen Greer says, that's just 610 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: a dad talking to a dad. All right, Tina, Norma, 611 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: anything y'all want to say that I haven't asked you 612 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: or you want to be sure y'all say. 613 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 3: I just want to say that the men and women 614 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 3: in Atlanta PD that go out there every day and 615 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 3: have to deal with this sort of stuff and they 616 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 3: are just amazing and they put their hearts and souls 617 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 3: into it just like we do. 618 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:04,720 Speaker 1: Amen. 619 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 4: Right on, Tina, We've seen a lot of changes over 620 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 4: the past twenty five years, and there's been a couple 621 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 4: of changes that I wasn't too happy with. There was 622 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 4: a lady that we had and I didn't care for 623 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 4: her too much anyway. But we got lucky when we 624 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 4: started out with Calhoun, and we've gotten lucky because now 625 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:32,280 Speaker 4: we have another Calhoun that's Shepherd. But Shepherd was really, really, 626 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 4: really being very kind to us Tuesday when we got 627 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 4: to that police department, and he said, if y'all have 628 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,240 Speaker 4: any questions for me, y'all ask and if you think 629 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,279 Speaker 4: of it after you leave and need to ask, just 630 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 4: call me. Well, he kept that promise because we called 631 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 4: him on something else later on and he really stepped up. 632 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 4: So oh, I just want to say thank you Shepherd. 633 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: Absolutely. I'm going to end Zone seven the way that 634 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,800 Speaker 1: I always do with a quote. Chris's days are numbered, 635 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 1: and I pray I'm there to see the look on 636 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:18,800 Speaker 1: his face when his world comes crashing down. On that day, 637 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:24,240 Speaker 1: Melissa will be smiling down from heaven and her children 638 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: and grandchildren will know the truth. She did not desert 639 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 1: her children. She was taken away from them. June sixteenth, 640 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, a grateful father, Carl Patten. I'm Cheryl 641 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,400 Speaker 1: McCollum and this is Zone seven.