1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much for 3 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: tuning in. Today's episode concerns Tangentially, one of the most 4 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: famous writers in the American canon. Is that, right, Ben? Yeah, Tangentially, 5 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: it does. I'm know. By the way, it's a bit 6 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: we do. We say each other's names or our own 7 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: names are sometimes I did. It goes both ways. But 8 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: the canon, Look, where did this term come from? This 9 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: this canon people speak of, Uh, it always just confused me. 10 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: It's always is flamming to me. Well, it's you know, 11 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: it refers to a general rule, law, or principle. Right, 12 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: that's the first meaning, But the second meaning is a 13 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: collection or list of things that are accepted as genuine 14 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: or as legit. We usually hear about it with books, 15 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: but as super producer Casey Pegrum can tell us, there's 16 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: a bit of a film canon to right, Casey, Yeah, 17 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: that's right. The American critic Andrew Sarah's kind of created 18 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: his own canon of filmmakers, piggybacking off of the French 19 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: of tour theory. Casey on the case indeed, but you know, 20 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: so what the canon that the you shoot stuff out 21 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: of that they took that name from the the other canon, 22 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: like where the unrelated entirely? Um, help me out. That's interesting. Yeah, well, 23 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: the etymology for canon with C A N O N 24 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: goes back to Greek canon for rule. Now, as far 25 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: as cannon canon, I don't know what that one would be. 26 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: I think it's really just just a homophone at the 27 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: end of the day. That's disappointing. I've always liked to 28 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: think of them being completely related, but that's how I 29 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: usually feel about words that sound the same. Um. You know, 30 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: I'm an atomology junkie, but this one, I think is 31 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: is gonna end up being a letdown. So I'm just 32 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: gonna gonna suspend my disbelief and choose to believe that 33 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: they're related. Um. But yeah, canonically speaking, uh, this author 34 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: uh that is part of today's story is definitely up there. 35 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: Uh is is one of the greats, one of the giants, 36 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: and also an intensely problematic figure as a human person, 37 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: as great artists and writers often are, Yes, and that 38 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: man is ernest him. In way, you may recognize him 39 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: as the author of numerous books you were forced to 40 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: read in high school, such as the old man in 41 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: the sea. Uh, farewell to arms son also rises. I 42 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: am and was for a long time a fan of 43 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: the collected poetry of Ernest hemmy Way, which is it's 44 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: very different from his novels and his short stories. But 45 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: I always recall one of my favorite poems. He wrote, 46 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: if you have younger people listening with you in the audience, 47 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 1: this might be time to fast forward a little bit. 48 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: This is not this is Pg. Thirteen ish maybe, but 49 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: here's the poem. I know monks masturbate at night, and 50 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: pet cats screw and some girls bite, and yet what 51 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 1: can I do to set things right? Ernest Hemmyway. Ernest 52 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: Hemmy Way indeed also really quotable gentleman um a lot 53 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: of quotes um involving inebriation, because he was also a 54 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: famous drunk really like, always do sober what you said 55 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: you do drunk? That will teach you to keep your 56 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: mouth shut. Uh. And one along the lines of I'm 57 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: remembering this one off the top of my head is 58 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: a man is not truly a man and until he's 59 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: drunk or something like that. Wow, that's a good one. Uh. 60 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: Today's episode occurs in the shadow of Ernest Hemingway, because 61 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: Ernest Hemingway, just like George Washington, is one of those 62 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: semi mythical figures and we always think about them at 63 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: a remove as a single entity in the world or 64 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: the universe. But like George Washington, Ernest Hemingway had siblings, 65 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: and today's story is about Ernest Hemingway's younger brother, Lester Hemingway, 66 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: who you may not have heard of before. His name 67 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: is pretty cool, but it's spelled in a confusing way, right, Oh, 68 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: I love this uh and it actually it's funny. I 69 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: learned the pronunciation of this a long time ago because 70 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: of a website at UK music website that's called Lester 71 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: bangs Um as as in Lester Bangs the famous Rolling 72 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: Stone writer um, famously dramatized and almost famous. But it 73 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: was spelled uh, like the name of the town in England, Leicester, 74 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: which looks like it should be pronounced Leicester. That's l 75 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: e I c E s t e er. And such 76 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: is the spelling of Ernest main ways baby brother, Lester, 77 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: who is the subject of today's episode. Yep, that's true. 78 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: So he is known historically for for three three things. First, 79 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: he's known for being the younger and only brother of 80 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: the novelist Ernist Hemmy Wayne check yep, and uh, he 81 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: also looks a lot like him, So that's double that's 82 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: double shadowy, right, you know. So he's living in he's 83 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: he feels like he's always coming in seconds. Secondly, he 84 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: one of his most well received books was a biography 85 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: about his brother, then came out eight months after Ernest 86 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: Hemmy Way passed away. Serious shadow living this guy. Uh, 87 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: double check and I don't know, you know, Noel, Should 88 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: we go ahead and spoil it? The third thing he's 89 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: very well known for, and this is by far my favorite. 90 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: Should we maybe soft spoil it? Yeah, let's spoil it that. 91 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 1: This is a new thing we're trying to Uh. It 92 00:05:55,120 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: involves a raft, and it involves declaring a sovereignty of 93 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: one type or another. Um declaring one's own nation, as 94 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: it were, which is the thing people do every nation 95 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: that's around now, at some point somebody just declared it 96 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: a nation. So it's not as crazy as it sounds. 97 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: Let's say I think that was a good soft spoiled. 98 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: Let's let's get to know Lester a little more and 99 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: find out what led him to this this crazy ambitious scheme. 100 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: He was born in nineteen fifteen, right, sixteen years younger 101 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: than his super famous older brother Ernest Um. So they 102 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't have been buddies exactly growing up. I mean, you know, 103 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: he would have probably been living in his shadow um 104 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: for from as long as early as he can remember. 105 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: With an older brother like that. Who I mean, I 106 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: you know, I I know a bit about the history 107 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: of Ernest Hemingway and his life. He was always sort 108 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: of a brash, incorrigible youth, you know, and prone to 109 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: adventure and misadventure. Right, It's true, and he definitely had 110 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: wonder lust before Lester was even walking around on his 111 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: little baby legs. Ernest was away in Europe. And now, 112 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: I don't think that the Hemmingway kids had it hard 113 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: in terms of material needs. They actually grew up in 114 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: a pretty fancy suburb of Chicago at the time, a 115 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: place called Oak Park. When Ernest returns from the Great 116 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: War nineteen eighteen, he's recovering from these grievous wounds that 117 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: he's received, like mortar mortar shell incidents. And I think 118 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: he even caught a little little machine gun fire um 119 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: around northern Italy. Yeah, and when he came back. He 120 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: was the town veteran. He was a hero in his 121 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: neighborhood at nineteen at nineteen, and his little brother Lester 122 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: absolutely adored him. You know, the sun rose and set 123 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: on Ernest hemmy way. Ernest was a little more casual 124 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: about this. Lester called Ernest the Baron. But Ernest had 125 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: a nickname for Lester. Yeah, yeah, it was clear that 126 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: the love was not mutually exchanged. There. Ernest called his 127 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: little brother Lester de Pester and then Um eventually shortened 128 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: it to the name of my favorite John Languizambo movie, 129 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: The Best. And it makes sense because you know, we 130 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: do the math. He's three years old when his brother 131 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: comes back at the age of nineteen, right, so of 132 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: course he has this three year old following him around. 133 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 1: Lester at least creatively followed in earnest footsteps. He wanted 134 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: to travel the world. He wanted to write, He wanted 135 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: to be that rugged, Teddy Roosevelt esque outdoorsman. And like 136 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: like his older brother, he had a ton of different 137 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: jobs and different gigs, and he also wrote a few books. 138 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 1: To boot Um. One of them, I guess popular is 139 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: maybe not maybe a little bit strong because it's certainly 140 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: not something that has been included in in the the 141 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: aforementioned canon, but as a book called The Sound of 142 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: the Trumpet, which was published in nineteen fifty three. But 143 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 1: he was a published author, and you know, he wrote 144 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: for men's magazines, and like he said, he was sort 145 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: of a newspaperman, I mean, really was sort of a 146 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: jack of all trades um, much like his brother. So 147 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: he very much took a lot of cues from the 148 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: story and and legacy of his older brother, which again 149 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 1: was something that would would have been fully formed kind 150 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: of by the time he came of age, right, and 151 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: think about this, just to get a taste of the 152 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: zeitgeist at the time. A review of his novel The 153 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: Sound of the Trumpet ninety three in the New York 154 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: Times declared the following. They said, Lester Hemingway was part 155 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: of the first younger generation, shaped by the writings of 156 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: his brother Ernest Hemingway. So there they're not calling him 157 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: an impersonator or an imitator, but they're saying he's very 158 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 1: influenced by his brother. But can you imagine how that 159 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: would feel like to get that review where you're just 160 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: lumped in with all the other wanna be Ernest Hemingway's like, no, 161 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: damn it, He's my Ernest Hemingway. You know, I'm the 162 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: first to be influenced by my brother Ernest Hemingway, you 163 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: know what I mean, not just one of a flock 164 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: of of impersonators. I would I would think that would 165 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: maybe have have stung a little bit. And why can't 166 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: he be the first Lester Hemingway? You know, that's that's 167 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: the question on the table. It makes you wonder how 168 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 1: all those off brand sodas feel. If off brand sodas 169 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: have feelings when they see like the mainstream stuff, if 170 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: if toy story holds true, surely there's soda story and 171 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: they have a secret life outside of our our waking hours. Yeah, 172 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 1: I'm now, I'm just I'm lost thinking of those those 173 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: soda the soda dynamics, right, So like is is fant 174 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: like the orange sodas fantas slice? Right? Those are two 175 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: orange sodas. What's the other? On sun Kissed? Sun Kissed? 176 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: There's also squirt Squirt Okay, squirt feels like it's it's 177 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: the lesser heavyway. Yeah, well, I don't know. To me, 178 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: squirt is almost the more risque of the orange sodas. 179 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: That's just me. The sound of that word and the 180 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: way it feels um conjures imagery in my personal despicable 181 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: gut or mind. But that's just me. How do you 182 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: feel like Lacroix plays into this whole thing? Do you 183 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: think Lacroix is even considered a soda? They even lent 184 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: Lacroix into the room. Uh, you know, look, roy is 185 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: kind of like nobody Nobody shoot me for saying this, 186 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: but look, Roi is kind of like the Gwyneth Paltrow sodas, 187 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It says it's good or 188 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: the sorry the goop of sodas. Like, it says it's 189 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: good for you, and it's better than drinking battery acid 190 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: is better than drinking you know, dr pepper or something. 191 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: But it's still it's not amazing, you know, it's still 192 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: kind of fills the soda roll well, but it doesn't 193 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: have any sugar, and it's refreshing and delicious. I thought 194 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: the carbonation was still bad for your t They do 195 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: say that. They do say that it can be bad 196 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: for your bone density as well. That's true, But I'm 197 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: a carbonation junkie. So if I'm gonna that's that's what 198 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: I derived pleasure from rather than the sugar. So we digress, 199 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: though true, the moral of this digression is drink what 200 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: you want. Uh. And also no no offense to Gwyneth Paltrow. 201 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: Look up Goop and tell me what you think about it. 202 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: That's her company. It's true that Lester was, however, um 203 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: always referred to in addition to his brother. Whenever somebody 204 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: mentioned him or his work, they also mentioned that he 205 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: was ernest him and with his brother. Yeah, I mean, 206 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: it's it's certainly a phenomenon you see often with siblings 207 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: of bluminaries in any field, you know. I mean, it's 208 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: really really hard to set yourself apart when you have 209 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: a sibling that's already kind of gotten a head start 210 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: first of all, and it's already just mega famous and 211 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: associated with kind of an entire movement, you know. Um. 212 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: Really interesting example is Billie Is, who's a singer, um 213 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: my kid really likes her brother who is older than 214 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: she is. Name's Phineas. He does all the production work 215 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: for her records and plays in her live band. Plays bass, 216 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: He plays bass, he plays guitar, really really great, really 217 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: talented guy, but it's gonna be tough for him to 218 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: be mentioned without his younger sister being mentioned in the 219 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: same sentence. And and as the older brother. Uh, that's 220 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: got to be tough for him too. But you know, 221 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: money can make those wounds go away, I imagine, right. 222 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: And you know, as an only child, I think I 223 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: and and probably you don't have a very good comparison 224 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: to how sibling relationships work in that regard. Now we 225 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: just have to get jealous of our colleagues and peers. 226 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: Is that what it is? Uh? So we're speculating a 227 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: little bit when we guess about how Lester interacted with 228 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: the world and how he received or navigated this relationship 229 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: with his sibling. But do want to point out again 230 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: his most famous, by far his most well received work 231 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: was a biography that was actually about his brother, and 232 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: it was called My Brother Ernest him Away, So he 233 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: at least leaned into it, right, He kind of knew 234 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: what hand he had been dealt. He knew, Okay, maybe 235 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: I'm not going to be a singular voice of a generation, 236 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: so I might as well. And he obviously revered his brother. 237 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: There's nothing indicating in his story that he was somehow 238 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: bitter or disliked his brother. He was he inspired by 239 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: his brother and influenced by his brother, Um, and he 240 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: wanted to honor his brother and apparently wrote quite a 241 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: bang up biography about him. He was aware of the 242 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: public perception because he was in an interview with the 243 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: Los Angeles Times he said, it's a tough act to follow, 244 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: and we can already see kind of the head start 245 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: pattern that you mentioned earlier, Nold. We can see that 246 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: very early on in Lester's life he was writing for 247 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: his high school newspaper, which is great and shout out 248 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: to anyone in the high school working on your literary 249 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: mag or your newspaper or your yearbook. But while he 250 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: was doing that, his brother had already published Farewell to Arms, 251 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: and it was already optioned for film, and it was 252 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: being made into a movie starring Gary Cooper, massive star 253 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: Gary Cooper at the time, and a huge head start 254 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: for for Ernest Hemingway. Then, when Ernest had a stint 255 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: in Spain as a correspondent UM during the Third Siege 256 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: of Madrid, he was getting five hundred bucks for four 257 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: hundred word um news reports. Uh. And that was in 258 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: today's dollars about seven grand, which is is a big deal. Um. 259 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: We had our boy, Lester Um kind of kickstarting his 260 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: early newspaperman career as a junior reporter for the Chicago 261 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: Daily News. Um. And again Ernest was there living the 262 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: high life. It wasn't the high life, I mean exactly, 263 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: though he was. He was in harm's way on the 264 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: front lines during the Third Siege of Madrid. And so 265 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: for anyone interested in the math, seven thousand dollars, as 266 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: we said, adjusted for inflation for a four word dispatch 267 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: works out to seventeen dollars and fifty cents per word. 268 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: That's amazing. That's good work if you can get it. 269 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: Lester also published a novel. We mentioned his his initial 270 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: novel that was published in nineteen fifty three. Do you 271 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: know what happened the year before? In nineteen fifty two, 272 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: The Old Man in the Sea came out and uh. 273 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: And the year after that, nineteen fifty four, the Swedish Academy, 274 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: when they were awarding Earnest Hemingway the Nobel Prize in Literature, 275 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: cited The Old Man in the Sea and Lester's over here, like, Hey, 276 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: I love my brother, but I also have a novel. 277 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: I am speculating on that part. But it is a 278 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: tough act. It's a tough act to follow. Did you 279 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: read The Old Man in the Sea Bend? Oh? Yeah, yeah, 280 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: several times? Did you like it? It's a tough one 281 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: for some folks. I know, like it's sort of like 282 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: like it's considered this massive work, but it's also quite 283 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: often said to be a little dull. It's one long metaphor, 284 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: you know. And I I enjoyed it. I enjoyed um. 285 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: I enjoyed this sort of abbreviated, blunt writing style of Hemingway, 286 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: especially in comparison to longer, more elaborate writers. God saved 287 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: me from Henry James the Turn of the screw Guy. 288 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:37,479 Speaker 1: That guy Uh engaged in something called phenomenology, which is 289 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: this the experiential process of a character interacting with the world, 290 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: learning great truths, and the audience or the readership going 291 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: along with them. Henry James also had an interesting story 292 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: with his siblings, but that's a story for another day. 293 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: I did like Old Man to see uh. And you 294 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: said for some people it felt like a slag, right, Well, 295 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: that's just a thing that people often say about that book. 296 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: I mean, it sort of gets a bit of a 297 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: bad rap for almost being um overhyped. Perhaps, Oh yeah, yeah, sure, 298 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: like a Catcher in the Rye, which I've I love 299 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: Catcher in the Rye. I think that's an interesting story, 300 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: and I like the internal monologue of the character or whatever. 301 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: But I also read that at an age where maybe 302 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: it uh connected with my rebellious spirit. I need to 303 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 1: give Old Man on the Sea another shot. I was 304 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: one of the ones that found it a little sloggy, 305 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: but that was when it was assigned to me as 306 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: a as a student. So maybe as I've gotten a 307 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: little older and hopefully wiser, maybe it'll resonate with me 308 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: a little more. And you know, nothing kills a great 309 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: piece of art more quickly than hype. You've got to 310 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: think about it, right, like if you go, if you 311 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: go and just find a book in the wild and 312 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: it's amazing, then you know that you have been amazed 313 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: by it personally. But if everybody tells you to like it, 314 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: often the contrarian in us will say, I don't see 315 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: what all the fuss is about, you know, but bet 316 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: as me, the Nobel Prize in literature is a huge 317 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: deal everybody, But Bob Dylan is historically very excited about 318 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:13,360 Speaker 1: this kind of thing, and Lester soldiers on, and here 319 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: we get to our soft spoiler. Uh. Well, just maybe 320 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: just set this up with a quote from Lester in 321 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: the Washington Post in nineteen sixty four. There's no law 322 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: that says you can't start your own country. Okay, you know, 323 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: in the style of his brother, very blunt and direct 324 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: and to the point. I can appreciate that about the man. Uh. 325 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: And it's interesting, ben. Um. You'll recall, Um, we actually 326 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: did a previous episode on something called the U. S. 327 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 1: Guano Islands Act of eighteen fifty six, where you will 328 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: recall it was a precedent allowing US citizens to quote 329 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: take possession on behalf of the US government of any 330 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: unoccupied island, rock or key on which a deposit of 331 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: guana was found. And um, you remember that kind of 332 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: created a bit of a of a guano boom. Uh. 333 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: And guano, of course, as you know, is um is poop, 334 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: bird poop. In particular. Uh, this was would have been 335 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: was it seagulls or what was the what was the 336 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: offending pooper? Uh. Let's see in our earlier episode when 337 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: US farmers went mad for bird poop. I want to 338 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: say sea birds of some sort. It would have had 339 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,479 Speaker 1: to be if it was an island or a key 340 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: or a rock. I also think of guano pop specifically, 341 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: but that's but it was much more of a catch 342 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: all term in those days. But yes, so that was 343 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: the precedent, and Hemingway Um decided to really take this 344 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: and run with it, or shall we say row with it, 345 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: paddle with it with it, whatever you got. Um he 346 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: figured that he could apply this to um a mobile, island, rock, 347 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: or a key. Right. This is interesting and listeners you 348 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: will see why this is a little bit of a reach. 349 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 1: The US Wanda Islands Act already is is a egregious 350 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: geopolitical reach. Check out that episode if you haven't heard 351 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: it yet. Here's what he did. Lester took an eight 352 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: by thirty foot bamboo raft. Uh he he anchored it 353 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: to an old Ford engine block in fifty ft of water, 354 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: about eight miles southwest of Jamaica. This was a shallow 355 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: ocean bank, but technically it's an international waters It's beyond 356 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: the three mile limit of Jamaica's ocean possessions, right, And 357 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: it's anomalous because once you're that far out. The seafloor 358 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: is usually gonna be hundreds or even a thousand feet deep. 359 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: The country, the raft is the country, by the way, 360 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: the raft is the country. It's all the Republic of 361 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: New Atlantis. And he on top of this raft. He 362 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: has iron pipes, stones, bamboo, stainless steel as the structure. 363 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 1: And he made this raft, this artificial island, this would 364 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: be country, using all of the funds from his biography, 365 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: my brother er his Timmy way. And he also he said, 366 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: you know, we're starting this country small, but we're gonna 367 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: expand it in the future, will build a bigger raft. 368 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 1: Well that we'll stick some rafts together. Right, Uh, this 369 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: is interesting to me. So, like, I mean, did he 370 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: have some kind of dinghy that he would use to 371 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: get to dry land? You know, I mean, what's the 372 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,479 Speaker 1: logistics of this whole setup? Right? You would think he 373 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 1: needs an away boat of some sorts. Right, So he 374 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: got this set up. It's clearly not super sustainable, right, 375 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: we need a source of fresh water and so on. 376 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: But he had the money to play with. If we 377 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: look at the how successful his biography is of his brother, 378 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: was he made a ton of scratch. We don't have 379 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: a exact figure, but um, he definitely you know that 380 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 1: would have been a h the equivalent of a best 381 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: selling you know, New York Times bestseller, you know, back 382 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 1: in those days. For sure. Yeah, we know Playboy magazine 383 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: paid him grand to serialize it, to publish it in 384 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: the magazine over subsequent issues, and that works out to 385 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: what a hundred and sixty dollars today? Yikes? Well no, 386 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: not yikes, Wow, amazingly that's great, good for Lester And honestly, 387 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: what a bold move, what an odd and interesting thing 388 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: to do. And and we talked about what his his 389 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: aim was, Ben, not yet. Yeah, he had a very 390 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: specific goal in mind, which was to start a marine 391 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: research society that would be funded with the money that 392 00:23:52,760 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: he made from up selling stamps, new Atlantis stamps. I'm 393 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: gonna need a little bit of a little bit of 394 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: help with this one, Ben, Stamps like shares like what 395 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: are we talking here? Yeah, for the philatelist market, uh, 396 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: the stamp collectors. So was it really that big of 397 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 1: a deal back in those days that you could hope 398 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: to make that kind of money enough to finance a 399 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: whole aquatic research institution just from selling postage? Stamps. That's 400 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: I think that was more visibility thing. If I'm being honest, 401 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: The Marine Research Society is probably mostly my brother Ernest 402 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: having way money going into there. I just I don't 403 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: how many stamps would you have to sell. It's strange 404 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,959 Speaker 1: because it seems more and more like a publicity stunt 405 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: right the further we get into this. But yeah, he 406 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 1: was trying to make a go of it selling stamps. 407 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: He also was on good terms with the closest acknowledged government, 408 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: the Jamaican government. They actually really liked the dude. Uh, 409 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: spokesperson for the Jamaic can Embassy said in nineteen sixty four, 410 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 1: he said, you know, Lester is a decent, well meaning soul, 411 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: and this project is it's good. You know, it's also 412 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 1: an international waters and historians argue that one of the 413 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: reasons Jamaica was okay with this, with this new country 414 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: popping up to their southwest, it was entirely because they 415 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: felt like he was he really was building this as 416 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: a stunt for environmentalism. He wanted to protect marine wildlife 417 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: and he also, weirdly enough, did you see this, He 418 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: outlawed gambling in his new nation, and that that made 419 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: Jamaica really happy. Interesting, So maybe it was maybe they 420 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: were worried it would be like a gambling haven. Maybe 421 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: they were gambling problems or you know, I mean, we 422 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: know gambling can be a really toxic situation, especially in uh, 423 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: potentially poverty stricken places that are kind of commodified by 424 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: tourism and casinos sneaking in and folks that grew up 425 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: there and lived there developed and gambling problems that actually 426 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: happens in a lot of those uh Native American casino situations. 427 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 1: That can be a real, real problem. So I can 428 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: see how that could be the case. Just speculating here. 429 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: But here's the thing he again used that very obscure 430 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: at the time, but because again this is from eighteen 431 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: fifty six, the U S Guano Islands act Um, allowing 432 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: to take control of any island, rock or key on 433 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: behalf of the US government if it's unoccupied and contains 434 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: guano deposits. So where where is the poop? Ben? Where's 435 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: the guano deposits? So this is interesting because everyone who 436 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: remembers the previous episode, you'll recall the language in the 437 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: Guando act is tricky. Something is you can lay claim 438 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: to something with Guando on it, and you can then 439 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: legally consider that land as quote appertaining to the United States. Yes, 440 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: that was a term that we had to kind of 441 00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: really unpack. Yeah, So what's interesting there is that if 442 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: Lester claimed the whole island or the whole raft under 443 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: the Guano Act, then it would not be its own country. 444 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: It would be in this realm of quasi belonging to 445 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: the United States. Therefore, he couldn't make it his own country. 446 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: So what he did was he divided the island in half. 447 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: He claimed the quote unquote unoccupied half of his island 448 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: on behalf of the US. And he said, that's the 449 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: Guando Act. We're just gonna I guess we're just gonna 450 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: let birds poop on this part of the raft and boom, 451 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: we've got guano. And he said the other half is 452 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: New Atlantic. So so really half US, half its own country, 453 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: half bird toilet half bird toilet. But that's the thing though, 454 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: I mean, like, how did he attract how did he 455 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: attract the bird bombs? Like, I don't know, because it 456 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: seems like the language of the law it really does 457 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: require that that be the what what what constitutes a deposit? 458 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: I mean they we're getting silly here, but like you know, 459 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: if a bird poops on your raft, it's technically depositing 460 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: guana onto their raft. So all it took, all it 461 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: takes is one errant, you know. Maybe I mean he wasn't. 462 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: He clearly wasn't in the guano business, right. The population 463 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: of New Atlantis started at six. It was Lester, Doris, 464 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: his spouse, their daughters Ann and Hillary, who were seven 465 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: and three years old at the time, respectively. PR Guy 466 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: named Edward Moss and his assistant Julia. So in February 467 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: there's a vote in the Republic of New Atlantis. Uh, 468 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: the seven voters make Lester the first president. They have 469 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: another PR blitz now that you know, the republic has 470 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: its first election and Kingston, Jamaica's papers cover it. Lester 471 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: tells the paper that his new Republic will be a 472 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: peaceful power and not threaten its Caribbean neighbors. Thanks for 473 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: appreci appreciate it. They also did. I I don't know 474 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: about you, but I'm fascinated by what are called micro nations, 475 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: and this is a micronation. Is Micronesia micronation? No, no, no, 476 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: it's it's what's the word the micro come from. Sorry, 477 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: I'm getting back into silly semantic etymology that probably doesn't exist. 478 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: But is Micronesia smaller than Indonesia. It's made up of 479 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: smaller islands. Yes, I got it. So the micro is 480 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: further away a descriptive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I believe 481 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: so now I am I am an armchair etymologist. I'm 482 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: very interested in it, but I am not an etymologist 483 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: by trade. So it is quite possible that there is 484 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: a hominemic play and that Micronesia actually translates to something 485 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: that neither of us know. It could be, you know, 486 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: the shining scales of the pufferfish. Indeed, micronations though to 487 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: your point, band don't have legal recognition in terms of 488 00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: you know, the U N or any kind of bodies 489 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: that do stuff like that, right, right, And the rule 490 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: of nations is uh, it's kind of a fake it 491 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: till you make it approach. We see this even today 492 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: with different different countries or regions that are jockeying for 493 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: you in recognition. The way you become a nation is 494 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: by having other nations say hey, that's a nation. It's 495 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: very ad hoc I mean, I hate to say it 496 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: that way. It feels arbitrary. There is a process if 497 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: you get enough nations together to say, hey, uh, Pegramania 498 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: is indeed a real nation, then then boom, you're in. 499 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: It's also a phenomenon wherein people absolutely lose their minds 500 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: over superproducer casey pegram he's a pegramaniac. Yeah, this and so, 501 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: when you want a nation to appear legitimate, you start 502 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: preemptively creating the trappings of legitimacy, even if you are 503 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: not recognized by the powers that be. So you want 504 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,959 Speaker 1: stuff like flags to satisfy the vexillologists. You want stuff 505 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: like stamps to your point. Right, For the philologists, Yeah, 506 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: for the philatelists, Dan, it's a tricky word. I don't 507 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: know why. That's another There's so many beautiful, mostly useless 508 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: words in English, like the people who collect matchbooks. Voluminist. Really, yeah, 509 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: it's a cool word. Where's the flag again? Vexillologists? Exillologists? Yeah, really, 510 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: learning a lot today about what what would you call that? Enthusiasts? Yeah, 511 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: they're not really experts exactly right, No, not really, Yeah, 512 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: excellologist is just a flag enthusiasts, not necessarily a a 513 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: flag expert with some sort of pedigree, right, yeah, Or 514 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: there's someone who just studies flags, you know, like, hey, 515 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: are you are you a vexillologist? And well not by trade, 516 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,719 Speaker 1: but I'm interested with what kind of flags do you have? 517 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: I don't know now in my head, there's a guy 518 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: with a trench coat who's walking up to people in 519 00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: the street and he opens a trench coat and he 520 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: just has a bunch of flags. But they would have 521 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: to be those tiny flags. Yeah, they're tiny flags, which 522 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: is still a flag, right, I mean, you know, a 523 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: flag is a flag is a flag. There's no size 524 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: designation for what makes a flag quote unquote proper right right, 525 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: And although their standard rectangular dimensions, not every country practices 526 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: those dimensions. You know what if all it takes as 527 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: a flag, let's just get ridiculous history of flag. I'm 528 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: moving forward. We should make the shipping container a sovereign nation. Yeah, 529 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: case here, you in let's do it. Okay, good, because 530 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: we need we need an odd number of votes. What 531 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: else will descend into chaos and gridlock and Casey can 532 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: be the the the king, the governor, prime prime minister, 533 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: prime minister. Yeah, I don't want to set them up 534 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: to be a dictator. Case here, you're cool with that. 535 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: We just elected you. I rule at the pleasure of 536 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: the people. That's great. I love your energy, man, so 537 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: so our nascent nation here ridiculous history aside, Uh, New 538 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: Atlantis does get a flag Leicester's spouse was it? And 539 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: then they also create a national currency. I love this name. 540 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: Oh I can see why, Ben, because you have no scruples, 541 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: my friend. The scruple. That's what it's called, the scruple. 542 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: It's like a ruble, a scruple. Scruple is also like 543 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: the thing what is a scruple Like? If you have 544 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: no scruples, that means you are a moral in some way, right, yeah. 545 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: A scruple is a reservation, right yeah, yeah, yeah, it's 546 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: it's what stops you from doing something morally, morally sketchy 547 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: or reprehensible. And he must have had that in mind, 548 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,719 Speaker 1: because it's almost like saying, this is our currency is 549 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: the very nature of goodness. If you have scruples, then 550 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: that means you are a thoughtful person. If you have 551 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: no scruples, then you are a bad person. So he's 552 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: really drawing the line in the water, the rat in 553 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: the raft. It's such a writer joke because Lester later said, 554 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: I believe the rich should have many scruples. Boma that 555 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: here's my question. Did he have all this stuff set 556 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: up before he went out on the raft? Did he 557 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: ever leave the raft? What if he left it unoccupied? 558 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: Could it have been you know, uh invaded so many 559 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: questions here. Who designed the flag? Did he do it himself? 560 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: It seems like it was him and his wife designing 561 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: this clusive as to how much they had worked out 562 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: in advance, Uh, we can say that there is a 563 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: draft of the New Atlantis Constitution, so they did write 564 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,800 Speaker 1: stuff down. It was typed on manual typewriter, and it's 565 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 1: more or less an exact copy of the articles that 566 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 1: form the main body of the U. S Constitution. And 567 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: they just sort of mad lived New Atlantis in wherever 568 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: it's the United States. So, I mean, let's let's be 569 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,760 Speaker 1: real here. The whole thing was sort of a protesting 570 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: kind of symbol like act. You know, there there was 571 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: a lot of satire built in with the whole scruples 572 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: and you know, I don't think he was necessarily intended. 573 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he says he was trying to 574 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: raise money for preservation and for this research center. I 575 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: think he was hoping that the stunt would catch enough 576 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,839 Speaker 1: publicity that he would you know, create a groundswell of 577 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: support and you know, revenue, and then he could actually 578 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: you know, funnel some money into these causes that he 579 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,439 Speaker 1: believed in. Right, but the whole thing was a bit 580 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: of a satire kind of a jokey thing. Yeah, it's 581 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: like it's a merry prank sur vibe. I know what. 582 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: The mid sixties too, So we're at the we're at 583 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: the peak of this sort of performance. Do you think 584 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: there would have been LSD on the stamps that he 585 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: was distributing. Interesting question, you know, he probably could have 586 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: sold some more. Uh, now that you mentioned it, it's 587 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: funny we should spend some time on the stamps because 588 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: he printed stamps in five different denominations. And as you said, no, 589 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: he told reporters that he was going to finance the 590 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: International Marine Research Society with the with the stamps, right. 591 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: But fatal flaw. Fatal flaw because the Universal Postal Union, 592 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: which is based in Switzerland, refused to recognize the stamps. 593 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,320 Speaker 1: They said, look, the stamps are not legit because the 594 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: country you've new, Atlantis, is also illegitimate. So they said 595 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,320 Speaker 1: you know, to us, you're just some guy on a 596 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 1: raft cutting paper into little squares. Well, that's totally what 597 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: he was. And I mean, you know, my question is, 598 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: you know, we you don't just print your own stamps 599 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: in the same way you don't just print your own money, 600 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,399 Speaker 1: or or do you? I mean, you know, if you're 601 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,320 Speaker 1: a sovereign nation, you've got your own mints, you recognize 602 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: your own currency. That makes it legitimate. This is the 603 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: fact that your sovereign nation. But what makes it legitimate 604 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: internationally is that record mission you know, from outside of 605 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: your bounds in this case the very very small bounds 606 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: um of this raft. So yeah, that's interesting. I guess 607 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: you you know, we do print our own stamps. The 608 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: Post Office doesn't print stamps for you, does it. How 609 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: are stamps produced? I believe it. I want to say 610 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: it's the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, Right, you're absolutely right, 611 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: Then that's totally true. So that I mean that that 612 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: sort of pulled some of that legitimacy in the first place, right, 613 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: I means literally saying I printed my own stamps and 614 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: my own denomination um. There was no recognition of that. 615 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: You would need the recognition I think before you could 616 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: print the stamps and then expect them to be considered legitimate, right, 617 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: so we sort of put the raft before the sea 618 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: horse in this situation. I think they got close to 619 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,439 Speaker 1: recognition though, and then you know how to play the game. 620 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: So they one of their stamps that came out in 621 00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: nineteen four honored President Lyndon Johnson u S President Lyndon 622 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: Johnson Jumbo. Yeah, the guy who nicknamed his genitalia Jumbo, 623 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: and they called him the protector of the free World. 624 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: In this stamp, they got a note from the White House. 625 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: It was a very nice thank you note, but they 626 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: did not get diplomatic recognition. Supposedly, the thank you note 627 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: addresses Lester as the acting President of New Atlantis. So 628 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,439 Speaker 1: this is the closest he's come to being recognized as 629 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: the as the leader of this developing nation. But still 630 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: it wasn't it wasn't quite there. The US Office of 631 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: the Geographer, one of the spokespeople said, this thank you 632 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: note from the White House was quote, the closest a 633 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: dreamer has come to official recognition. Yeah, and you know, 634 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,799 Speaker 1: Lester really was kind of a dreamer. And and if 635 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,320 Speaker 1: you ask me, did set himself apart from his older brother. 636 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: I mean, this is him pretty bold stuff that he 637 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: was doing. And he was quoted as saying he really 638 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 1: only did it to have a little fun, like we 639 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: said that Mary prankster vibe, and to make some dough. 640 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: UM didn't really make any dough. Definitely seemed to have 641 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,359 Speaker 1: some fun and and left a pretty interesting legacy that 642 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: actually did did did endure a bit though. His tiny 643 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: raft nation UH was eventually destroyed by a storm, and 644 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: we could have seen that coming. It was, um, you know, 645 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: held together by twine and and scraps and lead pipe 646 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 1: and bamboo and all of that stuff. So but it 647 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,800 Speaker 1: did stick around for a few years. UM. But it 648 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: actually caught the attention of one Mary M. Hearth, who 649 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: was a librarian for the University of Texas Humanities Research 650 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 1: Center UM and in October of nineteen sixty five UM 651 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 1: she and the center created an exhibition UH to memorialize 652 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 1: Lester's mad experiment. That's right. The exhibit includes a letter 653 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: from from Lester to her. He addresses her as Lady Mary. 654 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,720 Speaker 1: So you can travel today to the spot where the 655 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: Nation of New Atlantis once existed, but you will not 656 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: see the actual raft. What happened to Lester It's a 657 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: bit of a tragic tale. For the last five years 658 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: of his life he was primarily focused on the Bimini 659 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:45,720 Speaker 1: Out Island News. I'm pronouncing that carefully because for years 660 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:50,439 Speaker 1: we've been saying Bemini like bikini, but it's Bimini, right, 661 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: gem yeah, yeah, yeah like geminy. So this, this uh 662 00:40:55,440 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: Bimini Out Island News was a little monthly newsletter on fishing. 663 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,720 Speaker 1: So he returns to writing primarily about fishing. He also 664 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:10,399 Speaker 1: gets diagnosed with type two diabetes and he suffers through 665 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:15,400 Speaker 1: multiple operations like five over the course of only six months. 666 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: He may end up losing his legs and tragically. Lester 667 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: hemming Way decides to end his life in two at 668 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,840 Speaker 1: the age of sixty seven. But he did leave behind 669 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: a very interesting legacy UM that generated a lot of 670 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: of you know, publicity UM and created well, I don't 671 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:39,879 Speaker 1: know if he could argue that this maybe he isn't 672 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: an amazing result, but it did create a lot of 673 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: right wing interest in the idea of you know, setting 674 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: up one's own nation artificial nation island UM and Peter 675 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: Thiel of PayPal Um had this used used this concept 676 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:03,759 Speaker 1: for his Sea East Standing Institute concept, the idea of 677 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: reimagining civilization with floating cities that is directly from the 678 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 1: Sea Standing dot org website. Um that reads The c 679 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 1: Standing Institute is a nonprofit think take promoting the creation 680 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 1: of floating ocean cities as a revolutionary solution to some 681 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: of the world's most pressing problems rising sea levels, over population, 682 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: poor governance, and more. I could get behind that. I 683 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: I think that's a uh. I think it's at the 684 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,800 Speaker 1: very least inspired by New Atlantis and of course shout 685 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 1: out to one of the most famous micro nations, the 686 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 1: Principality of Seilands, which is Have you heard of this one? 687 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: It's pretty much the same. Uh, it's a very similar thing. Uh. 688 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: Former British Army major, a guy named Patty Bates occupies 689 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,800 Speaker 1: this one by fifty ft platform. It's just it's literally 690 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: an anti aircraft gun platform. He takes over it and 691 00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: declares that his own nation, and no one really stresses 692 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,759 Speaker 1: out about it. Celan is a great story stuff you 693 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: should know has a good episode on it as well, 694 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:10,080 Speaker 1: so check them out. Lester overall seems to be a 695 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,160 Speaker 1: pretty swell guy. He doesn't resent his brother's talent. He 696 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,200 Speaker 1: seems to love him, and he seems like he's having fun, 697 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: you know, uh weirdly enough. The Connecticut Review, going back 698 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: to our statements about masculinity, the Connecticut Review said the 699 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 1: following about Lester. They say, he's articulate, vibrant, definitely his 700 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,400 Speaker 1: own man, and he had managed somehow to accommodate himself 701 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: manfully to living in earnest shadow, how does want accommodate 702 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: oneself manfully and in earnest and in earnest? There we go. 703 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: I like that manfully, man fully. We're gonna I'm gonna 704 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,839 Speaker 1: do things manfully now. One note before we go, it's 705 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,240 Speaker 1: just an important thing. Um. We did mention that Lester 706 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: took his own life, and as you know, Ernest him 707 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:02,840 Speaker 1: and Way also took his own life. Uh. Depression is real, 708 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,480 Speaker 1: and sometimes these things do run in families. But if 709 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: you or anyone you know has uh ever ever feels 710 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,400 Speaker 1: like you're getting in these dire straits or you're having 711 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,920 Speaker 1: a tough time, there are people you can reach out to. 712 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: So the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is one to seven, three, 713 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,799 Speaker 1: eight to five, or reach out to someone close to you. 714 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 1: Never feel like you're burdening anybody. I think that's the 715 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,320 Speaker 1: biggest barrier to people just having conversations that could really 716 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,160 Speaker 1: make a world of difference, as people don't want to 717 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 1: impose and and you're never imposing. I can say that, UM, 718 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,879 Speaker 1: speaking as someone who's never maybe even met you out there, 719 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 1: I would be more than happy to talk to anyone 720 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,440 Speaker 1: who's ever feeling any of these these feelings, as I 721 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: know Ben would as well. UM, So please reach out 722 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,920 Speaker 1: to someone close to you or to a stranger. Um, 723 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: just reach out to somebody, absolutely and well said. Thank you, 724 00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:00,319 Speaker 1: knowl speaking reaching out. You can find us all over 725 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 1: the internet. We're on Facebook, We're on Twitter, we're on Instagram. 726 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:05,879 Speaker 1: Meet one of our favorite parts of the show, your 727 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: fellow listeners on our Facebook page, Ridiculous Historians. All you 728 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: gotta do is name drop myself, Ben Bowling, super producer, 729 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,080 Speaker 1: Casey Pagram, any of the myriad names that we dropped 730 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 1: in the credits, or you know, just a ref to 731 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: one of the episodes, or just something pithy, uh that 732 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,760 Speaker 1: lets us know that you're a human person with actual 733 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:25,960 Speaker 1: interests in joining the group and not some sort of 734 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,920 Speaker 1: Russian butt. And you know, if you're a Russian bot 735 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 1: and you're in the audience and your pun game is strong, 736 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: I might still let it go. Bring it on, and 737 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,040 Speaker 1: you can follow us as individuals. I'm at Ben Bowling 738 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,800 Speaker 1: on Instagram. I'm at Ben Bolling h s W on Twitter. 739 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,640 Speaker 1: You can find me exclusively on Instagram at how Now 740 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,840 Speaker 1: Noel Brown Big. Thanks to super producer Casey Pegram. As always, 741 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 1: Christopher hasiotis here in spirit, Alex Williams, who composed our theme, 742 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:56,120 Speaker 1: our research associate uh slash Mastermind Gabe. Thanks also to 743 00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 1: Eve's Jeff Coat, and you know what, thanks to uh 744 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,319 Speaker 1: thinks the Lester Hemingway. If I kind of want to 745 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,960 Speaker 1: build a nation now too, and I want to find 746 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,160 Speaker 1: out more about this guy. He sounds like the kind 747 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,920 Speaker 1: of guy you'd wanna um just have a beer with 748 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:21,239 Speaker 1: and maybe go rafting. We'll see you next time, folks. 749 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,360 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I 750 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,319 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to 751 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:27,280 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.