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Speaker 1: How much is too much? It's one more thing, I'm

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Speaker 1: strong Andy.

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Speaker 2: One more thing, the Princess of Wales apologizing for the

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Speaker 2: photo that caused a worldwide controversy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. We're still talking about that more the fact that

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Speaker 1: it's a story than anything else. By the way, Katie,

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Speaker 1: I really like your T shirt. Yeah no, yeah, no, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we got to talking on the radio show about

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Speaker 1: the editing of photos just in general, because so many

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Speaker 1: people do it and it's so effortless. Now I don't

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Speaker 1: have the Google phone, but I was just reading. So

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Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal had an article, when is it

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Speaker 1: okay to alter the family photo? Who doesn't alter big

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Speaker 1: family photos? And if you didn't before, I mean, like

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Speaker 1: back in the old days when you'd go get a

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Speaker 1: professional photo done and everything like that, they were altering

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Speaker 1: them for you. They were all brightening them up or

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Speaker 1: list them or whatever.

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Speaker 3: And so every every group photo I take, I make

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Speaker 3: sure everybody looks top notched because I don't want to

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Speaker 3: hear it afterwards.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, why did you.

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Speaker 4: Post that one? I look bad in that one?

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Speaker 3: Oh no, I went through. I made my best effort

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Speaker 3: to make all of.

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Speaker 4: You look good.

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Speaker 3: So doing what for instance, sometimes someone's eyes will be closed,

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Speaker 3: you can open them. Somebody's not smiling when they usually would,

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Speaker 3: you can give them a smile.

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Speaker 1: What app or phone are you using to do that?

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Speaker 4: Face tune?

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Speaker 1: Face tune? Yeah, so the Google pixel thing. You've probably

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Speaker 1: seen the ads. It looks fantastic. But they've got a

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Speaker 1: thing called best Take, where you do a blast of

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Speaker 1: photos and then you can pick each individual face. This

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Speaker 1: is the best one from this one. This is the

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Speaker 1: best one in you know, in a group photo. That's

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Speaker 1: which sounds like was more or less what they did

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Speaker 1: there at Kensington Palace with the royal family. I'm surprised

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Speaker 1: they don't have more sophisticated software than they did well.

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Speaker 1: According to their statement, Prince Will, I don't even hardly

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Speaker 1: know these people's names, Prince Vine. Prince Will took the

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Speaker 1: picture last week and and Kate edited, and then she

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Speaker 1: edited it. I guess like a lot of wives probably

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Speaker 1: do if their husband takes a bad photo. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: This whole thing is because there was a big conspiracy

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Speaker 3: theory that she was dead after this abdominal surgery she

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Speaker 3: had because she hadn't been seen in the public, and

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Speaker 3: now they're trying to find any reason they can to

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Speaker 3: keep that conspiracy alive.

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Speaker 4: I e.

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Speaker 3: They edited this photo and she's not really around or something.

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Speaker 4: That's what I've been reading.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, that's that's That doesn't explain all of the coverage,

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Speaker 5: but certainly some of it. Now I'm willing to concede

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Speaker 5: that I may be an outlier in this stuff, you know,

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Speaker 5: to Katie's point, I don't hang out with people who'd

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Speaker 5: give a single crap. I mean, unless they're like I

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Speaker 5: take a picture and in the background they're with their lover.

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Speaker 1: And their wife doesn't know about it. They might be

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Speaker 1: worried about that. But so I shop that out.

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Speaker 5: Certainly, Yeah, they'd ask me to, but I've just I am. Now.

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Speaker 5: If we're talking about bringing out a little contrast or

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Speaker 5: something like that, a filter because it was a little

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Speaker 5: bright there or something, I mean, that's just that's how

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Speaker 5: you make decent looking photographs. But like slimming people and

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Speaker 5: you know, give them a better smile or white in

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Speaker 5: their teeth and stuff like that, I just it makes

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Speaker 5: me uncomfortable. I feel like it's divorcing reality from perception

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Speaker 5: in a way that's unhealthy.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever do you ever slim people, Katie.

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Speaker 4: No, no, that's not that's not cool.

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Speaker 3: But I see your point, Joe, as you're drawing the

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Speaker 3: line basically at contrast and lighting.

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Speaker 1: Well, Joe's drawing very bright lines between good people and

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Speaker 1: bad people. So we got to figure out which end

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Speaker 1: of the line we're all all out. This must be

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Speaker 1: what it's like to be in a hearing in Congress.

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Speaker 1: So we need to find out which side of Joe's

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Speaker 1: good people bad people line we're on. So you're okay

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Speaker 1: with contrast in the bright we.

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Speaker 4: Have a format?

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Speaker 1: Okay, great? But yes, are you okay with the You

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Speaker 1: got a bunch of photos and you put the smile

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Speaker 1: on everybody's best smile in the photo. Are you okay

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Speaker 1: with that or not?

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Speaker 5: It seems ridiculous to me, Although if each of those

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Speaker 5: individual images existed, just not at the same time, I

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Speaker 5: will allow it.

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Speaker 1: Like a fly lands on somebody's face and you make

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Speaker 1: a weird face trying to get the fly off, and

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Speaker 1: you're just gonna leave it like that for that guy.

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Speaker 5: Or here's a question, what have you gained by and

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Speaker 5: what have you lost by not including that image?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: You are serving the idea of always looking unrealistically beautiful

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Speaker 5: or or great as opposed to capturing a moment where

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Speaker 5: something really funny had Well.

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Speaker 1: Speaking for myself, it's hard for me to wrap my

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Speaker 1: head around this because I don't have the motivation because

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Speaker 1: I don't have any social media that I post pictures on,

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Speaker 1: so nobody ever sees them. Me and other people in

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Speaker 1: my family sometimes me and the kids go through my phone,

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Speaker 1: but so I'm not posting these for any stuff. So

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Speaker 1: maybe I would be more motivated to if I posted

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Speaker 1: these where anybody would see them. But like I know

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Speaker 1: someone who who who clearly uses the thinning thing whenever

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Speaker 1: they post pictures, because I see them on a regular

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Speaker 1: basis and I know that that's not what they look like,

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Speaker 1: and one that I wonder about.

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Speaker 5: I just think that's fundamentally unhealthy to thine own self

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Speaker 5: be true. It's like my my guiding principle for everything

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Speaker 5: in life because and it's not I'm not coming off

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Speaker 5: as high handed. I think I may be better than

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Speaker 5: some people at least at recognizing my weaknesses and realizing

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Speaker 5: you are really tempted to do that. That's one of

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Speaker 5: the things you really need to be careful about, and

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Speaker 5: one of them is you know, self delusion or you know,

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Speaker 5: how how would I put this? And I'm more than

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Speaker 5: willing to concede that I'm I may be an outlier

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Speaker 5: and a little bit weird about this, and you live

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Speaker 5: your own life. I honestly don't care. I don't care

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Speaker 5: enough about the way you live your life to judge

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Speaker 5: you unless you're hurting other people. So don't take anything

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Speaker 5: I say is some sort of like Jack. Try to

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Speaker 5: frame it as your exactly that's probably you know what. Honestly,

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Speaker 5: that's probably a better way to frame this discussion. It's

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Speaker 5: more entertaining.

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Speaker 4: I it's called Joe's the jerk.

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Speaker 5: I just what are you doing? Why are you doing

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Speaker 5: that so people think you're better looking than you are?

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Speaker 4: Why for dating apps?

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Speaker 1: For if you're single and you're dating. If I was

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Speaker 1: doing that, and I've never done online dating and I'm

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Speaker 1: never going to, but if I was, got it be.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I could stop myself from just slightly

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Speaker 1: slimming your face. I mean, fly different question. Posting pictures

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Speaker 1: of guys who weren't even me That is a deletely

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Speaker 1: different question, though, although at a point though you're really

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Speaker 1: misleading people. I mean, because I have heard people talk

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Speaker 1: about showing up to meet somebody and it's like, you're

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Speaker 1: the same person from that photo. Come on, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't want that. That'd be hurtful. I wouldn't want I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't want that myself. I don't want to meet somebody

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Speaker 1: that I lured them in by making myself look different.

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Speaker 1: They're like, whoa dude, how much time did you spend

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Speaker 1: editing that photo? But man, you can I messed around

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Speaker 1: with face tune a while just to see what it

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Speaker 1: was like. Then I don't even have it anymore because

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm not going to spend that much time. But man,

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Speaker 1: just it takes so little effort to like slim your

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Speaker 1: face just so, and you think, wow, I look so

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Speaker 1: much better with just that much effort. All right, man,

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Speaker 1: here's the standard.

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Speaker 5: And Katie cannot come in on this because she's super pretty,

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Speaker 5: like the best non retouched photo of.

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Speaker 1: You, because we all have them. Wow I look good

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Speaker 1: in that pic. You know. That's as high as you

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Speaker 1: can go.

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Speaker 5: That is handsome or pretty or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Go If all you're doing is bringing the photo up

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Speaker 1: to your best real photo, Yes, that's not bad as

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Speaker 1: a standard.

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Speaker 5: If you are exceeding the possibilities of a real photo

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Speaker 5: of yourself, Then you're doing things in your mind that

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Speaker 5: are not healthy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you change it to something you've never actually

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Speaker 1: looked that good, that is a different category.

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Speaker 5: Unless, again, you're trying to get laid, then anything goes Baby.

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Speaker 1: Here's a funny one. I was disappointed that my Costco

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Speaker 1: card expired because I had a great picture on my

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Speaker 1: Costco card. It's like one of my better pictures of me. Ever,

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Speaker 1: for some.

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Speaker 5: Time I had a driver's license. Once I looked like

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Speaker 5: an action star.

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Speaker 4: Yes, my first driver's license was money.

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Speaker 5: It all came together. I had a really good beard.

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Speaker 5: At that point, I looked at like a guy out

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Speaker 5: of the movies. Who would you know he turned out

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Speaker 5: to be? You know, some sort of mass are criminal.

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Speaker 1: Oh so good.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 1: How if you end up in the news, the media

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Speaker 1: grabs like your driver's license photo and that becomes the

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Speaker 1: photo going everywhere. I've thought about that before if something happened,

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Speaker 1: and now the current driver's license photo I have is

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Speaker 1: just awful. I wish I could get a change that

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Speaker 1: would be the picture of what I look like. For

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Speaker 1: any story you want, you.

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Speaker 4: Want it to be your Costco card photo.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, if you have to. If something happens where

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Speaker 1: I end up with the news good or bad, use

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Speaker 1: my Costco card.

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Speaker 6: You let your Crossco card expire?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, somehow okay, So why don't we go through a

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Speaker 5: checklist of different Go ahead, Michael, Did you have more criticism?

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Speaker 1: You know, do you let your kids starve too that?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a boy, that's what I was looking for.

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Speaker 4: That's what I was opening.

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Speaker 6: For, Michael.

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Speaker 5: All right, So throw out scenarios and I'll rule whether

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Speaker 5: they're okay. For instance, family picture, your kid has acne

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Speaker 5: problems and is super sensitive about it.

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Speaker 1: Hmmm, they're super sensitive about it. That's different the family

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Speaker 1: picture like the one that's gonna go on the wall

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Speaker 1: in the hallway.

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Speaker 5: Maybe a Christmas card.

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Speaker 3: See, I'd be okay with it, because that acne isn't forever.

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Speaker 3: You're going to grow up, and if they want that

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Speaker 3: picture up the way, you know.

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Speaker 5: And it is strictly speaking a disease. Yeah, I realize

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Speaker 5: that makes it sound more serious than it, but it

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Speaker 5: can be very serious for people and the way they

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Speaker 5: feel about themselves.

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Speaker 1: Certainly for my own personal use the pictures my phone.

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Speaker 1: I've never altered my kids to make them look better. Ever,

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Speaker 1: not once? No, no, yeah, I want to know what

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Speaker 1: they look like, right. Yeah. Me on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: what do you want to do with me.

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Speaker 5: Ever using slimming software and other than like for dating functions?

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Speaker 1: I never have for real, I don't think I ever

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Speaker 1: would except for dating situations. But so you know, all

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Speaker 1: of this is there's lots of gray areas you're I

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Speaker 1: guess some men do this too, but women do it more.

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Speaker 1: I think you're wearing some sort of slimming garment. How's

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Speaker 1: that different if you're wearing a slimming garment under your

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Speaker 1: dress at the wedding? Isn't that How's that different than

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Speaker 1: if you use the photoshop to slim yourself a little bit? Why?

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Speaker 5: Well, because it's it's possible in the real world.

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Speaker 1: So that's your standard again, is if you could get

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Speaker 1: yourself to look like that in the real world.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's funny between the radio show and recording this,

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Speaker 5: I went and got some more ice water from the

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Speaker 5: kitchen and just everybody's getting ready and all right, let's.

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Speaker 1: Go do the podcast.

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Speaker 5: I've been thinking hard about all the things we've talked

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Speaker 5: about today, and I've got to form it all into

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Speaker 5: a unified philosophy, and it's gonna be something like I'm

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Speaker 5: a realistarian or something like that, because the only thing

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Speaker 5: that's going to keep me from becoming like an angry nihilist,

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Speaker 5: because I think the artificial world, a virtual world, is

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Speaker 5: incredibly unhealthy and is drawing humanity and individual people into

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Speaker 5: just terrible psychological places and addictions and self hatred and

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Speaker 5: suicide and depression and anxiety. I think it is so

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Speaker 5: effing unhealthy. We have not scratched the surface of it.

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Speaker 5: But the only way I can like live in that

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Speaker 5: world is if I have an alternative that I'm focused on,

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Speaker 5: and it's going to be something about anything that departs

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Speaker 5: from what is real more than just a little bit

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Speaker 5: I'm just going to reject.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder if that'll happen for anybody on the

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Speaker 1: younger end, though, Like Katie, you're younger, so wouldn't smartphones

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Speaker 1: come out? You're a kid?

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Speaker 4: Probably on No, I was high school graduating.

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Speaker 1: If you're if you're a young person, especially women, but

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Speaker 1: if you if you've never lived in a world where

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Speaker 1: you couldn't easily manipulate your photos and make yourself a better,

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Speaker 1: look better. How would you.

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Speaker 5: Ever not to answer your question, which I think is

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Speaker 5: a really interesting one, whether young people will you know,

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Speaker 5: go along with what I'm talking about or ever or

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Speaker 5: get a chance to The answer is clearly yes, one

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Speaker 5: hundred percent yes. The question is how many I read

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Speaker 5: something interesting the other day, twenty somethings who have jettison

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Speaker 5: TikTok and other social media, and how happy they are.

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Speaker 5: Now that's not like seventy million in the United States,

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Speaker 5: but it's thousands. And just like you know, whether you

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Speaker 5: want to cite Christianity or healthy eating or regular exercise

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Speaker 5: or whatever, just because most people aren't is not a

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Speaker 5: good reason to stop advocating for what's good and what's healthy.

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Speaker 5: And if I'm on the losing side again, that's fine.

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Speaker 1: I can live with that. I was just singing for

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Speaker 1: young people altering their photos. One they will have always

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Speaker 1: had that in their lives. And two you kind of

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Speaker 1: always are on a dating app when you're it seems

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Speaker 1: to me from observing social media for young people, your

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Speaker 1: life is a dating app. It's an interesting point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so good point. You're going to be adjusting your phone.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how you couldn't have stopped me, and like

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Speaker 1: if I hit where high school now from altering my

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Speaker 1: photos to make myself look better? Are you kidding? Not

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Speaker 1: a chance. You couldn't stop me with a gun from

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Speaker 1: altering my photos to make myself look better.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

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Speaker 6: Oh wow, what if you had an uncle that had

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Speaker 6: well he was a pirate and he had a peg leg,

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Speaker 6: would you no or put a different type of leg

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Speaker 6: on there, like on his shoulder?

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Speaker 1: Well, of course it's an odd scenario.

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Speaker 5: What's your pirate uncle's name? It's hard for me to

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Speaker 5: go forward without a name.

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Speaker 4: Art.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, I'm.

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Speaker 6: Really sorry about that.

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Speaker 1: Wow, was right? I need air brushed this out of

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm really sorry about that. Shiver me timbers.

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Speaker 1: He gave me scurvy without.

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Speaker 4: One, Okay, all right, Well I guess that's it.

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Speaker 1: E