WEBVTT - Ep8 - Colin Callender: Turning the world into his Playground 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:10.799 Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties podcast featuring conversations with industry 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:14.920 leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton, Managing 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:18.040 editor of Television for Variety, and today my guest in 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.800 New York. As producer Colin Callendar. Calendar is known for 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:25.400 having excellent taste and the relationships to bring major stars 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.760 to his productions. He's also long been an innovator in 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:33.320 financing his projects through international co productions. Collins spent more 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:37.360 than twenty years with HBO before launching his own company, Playground, 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.800 in two thousand twelve. Playground has a big presence in 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.040 TV on both sides of the Atlantic. This year, he's 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:47.440 done the adaptation of Howard's End for Stars in the BBC, 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:51.680 King Lear with Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson for the 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:56.080 BBC and Amazon, and Little Women for BBC and PBS. 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:59.720 He's also very active as a stage producer, and he 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.640 launched a little show on Broadway called Harry Potter and 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:07.120 the Cursed Child. Here, Calendar sets the record straight about 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.280 the high price tag for Cursed Child. Don't believe every 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.600 number you hear. He also talks about the booming worldwide 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.040 market for classy drama, and he offers up his Yelta 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:22.840 conference strategy for managing international production partners. Thanks for joining 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.760 us today, Colin Calendar, We really appreciate you stopping by. 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:30.640 Let's start by talking about your company, Playground. You have 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:35.760 a really interesting mix of TV, film, stage projects, a 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:38.480 little show that just opened on Broadway called Harry Potter 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.760 and the Cursed Child. Tell us about the growth of 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:44.680 Playground since you launched the company in two thousand twelve. 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:50.960 When I left, I was very keen to produce THEATA, 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.240 and in fact, the very first thing I did after 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.960 eating was produced the nor Eron play Lucky Guy with 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:00.720 Tom Hanks and Funny Enough. That had been a script 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:04.840 that was a feature film that was developed by Sony 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:09.960 and when solely passed on it, Nora Ephron brought it 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.160 to me at HBO when I was there and we 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:15.839 we ended up not making it. But when I came 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:20.120 back when I started Playground, I really thought that Lucky 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:21.840 Guy could be a play, and I went to Nora 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:23.880 and said, have you ever thought of doing this as 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:25.240 a play, because I don't think it's going to get 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:27.520 made as a movie anywhere, And she said, no, no, 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:29.200 I want to do it as a movie, and she 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:33.240 she was flying out to UM Los Angeles to meet 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.880 on the Julia Childs movie, and she said, but let 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:39.800 me I'm back in two weeks. Let me think about 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:41.920 it and I'll give you a call. So about ten 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.840 days later, I get a call from Laura saying, well, 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:47.000 I didn't go to l A. We were caught. We 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.200 stuck in New York of a snowstorm. And I've written 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.359 the play. Do you want to read it? Um? And 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:58.560 of course then I went from there, I think, what's true? 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.560 Oh my career And the very first thing I produced 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:06.000 as a producer was the television version of the Royal 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:09.880 Shakespeare Companies Nicholas Nickleby. It was a nine hour mini 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:13.560 series UM for the new Channel four in England, and 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.480 in fact it was contract zero zero one Channel four. 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:22.120 This was This was and in many ways that project 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:28.880 on Reflection with retrospect embodies a number of characteristics that 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:34.079 are that have sort of defined my work over time. UM. Firstly, 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.720 the production was a mix of theater, film and television 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.280 people all on the same production. It was a television 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:45.360 series director, it was a cinematography film cinematographer was shot 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:49.640 like a single like a movie over nine over three months. 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:54.200 Um So, that was very much a sort of a 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.440 coming together of talent from different disciplines and I think 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.200 that's informed a lot, if not all, of what I've 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:02.440 done over the years, and it's certainly at the core 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:08.280 of Playground, the idea of drawing on my relationships with 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:12.160 talent in the film, theater and television world. The second 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:15.320 thing is that that Nickleby was a co production. Um 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.800 and in fact, when we approached Channel four, I had 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:22.279 already got Mobile Oil here in the States to sponsor 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:26.920 it for syndication in America and a division of PolyGram 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.160 at the time to handle the distribution. So I was 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.120 able to go to Channel four and say this is 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.599 going to cost five million pounds, We've got four million 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.279 pounds where you put in the remaining one million pounds 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:43.320 and they did, and so that um So, that was 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:48.640 the business model that I have actually gone back to 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:52.159 over and over again, because after Nicholas you had you 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.920 had a long, you know, twenty year nearly twenty year 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:59.680 run at HBO as as after Nicholas that the after Nickleby, 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.200 the it was about five years of producing in England. 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.039 And the reason I ended up at HBO was because 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.560 we were the co producer of choice in England for 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:14.240 HBO because HBO's creative ambitions exceeded its financial reach and 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.280 so they needed partners. And I had met Michael Fuchs 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:20.880 on the cuasette one one night um during the mip 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:26.800 TV Festival and uh as I say, we became that 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:32.599 the the co producer of choice. So Playground has sort 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:36.919 of embodies those two things, both the the you know, 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:39.880 working with Mark Rylands, the stage actor in something like 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:44.560 wolf Hall, having Ken Lonagan, a playwright, adapt Howard's end 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:50.919 Um making King Lear with the movie star Anthony Hopkins. 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:56.040 That that those are characteristics. I think that inform all 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.479 the shows we've done, and they are all co productions 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:02.159 in my or another. Howard's end Sorry Warfall was of 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:08.640 co production between the BBC and Marspis Theater. Um Canlear 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:15.480 is a co production between BBC and Amazon, and how 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:20.279 Its end was Stars BBC. So we've been involved in 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:22.919 all our projects that have had both in American and 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:26.200 the UK partner. What are the what are the benefits 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:28.919 and what are some of the hurdles of doing a 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:31.800 co production for a for a you know, sizeable production 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:36.240 like a Howard's End or a king Lear Well, there 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:41.320 are enormous hurdles um and the hurdles are primarily creative hurdles, 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:44.560 and they are hurdles that I think a lot of 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:48.640 people are stumbling at at the moment um. The real 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:59.039 challenge is creating a show that that has creative integrity, 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:04.120 that that so that the actual creative team are only 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:07.800 serving one master, even if you, as the producer, are 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:13.720 actually having to serve several. I remember a story going 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:16.320 back to Nicholas Nickleby again, which is sort of apocryphal, 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.880 although I didn't realize it at the time. Nicholas Nickleby 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.520 was nine hours long. The Channel four in England wanted 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.560 to air it in two parts, as it played on 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:29.920 stage one night at four hours and one night at 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:36.600 five hours. Mobile wanted to syndicate it around independent stations 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:41.320 in the US in four to hour chunks, and PolyGram 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:45.000 wanted to distributed internationally as nine wire one hour episodes. 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:49.200 And I remember thinking, there's no way we can make 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:54.480 this work. And I decided, and I tried to negotiate 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.480 individually with the various partners to try and find some consensus, 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.720 but didn't get anywhere. So I decided to hire what's 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.560 what's called the Roosevelt Room at brown Hotel, Brown's Hotel 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.520 in London and Album Art Street and convene the one 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:11.200 day sort of alta conference. And we had the guys 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:15.480 from Mobile, the guys from Channel four, and the guys 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:19.000 from the PolyGram distribution Company, and then I had David Egger, 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:22.280 the writer. I had Trevor on the original stage director, 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:25.640 and Jim Gottard, the new TV director, and myself and 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:27.880 we had the room from nine to six in the evening. 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.880 I started the meeting by saying, we have this room 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:34.960 till six o'clock. At the moment everybody wants something different, 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.840 we need to actually come away from this meeting with 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:43.200 a consensus and support for one clear vision of the show. 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.560 And if we can't do that, then well it was 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:49.160 a good, good try, and we tried, but it didn't 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:53.640 work out. And indeed, by the time we ended that meeting, 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:55.880 we did have a consensus at what the form of 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.880 the show should be. And I didn't realize it at 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:00.720 the time because I was a wet behind the years 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:03.440 sort of you know, kid producer. It was my as 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.920 I say it, was my very first credit. But that 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:10.839 really is at the core of successful co productions. It's 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:16.320 everybody sharing the same vision from day one, and um, 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:20.959 if there is a slight gap in terms of that consensus, 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:25.040 it's like a rocket ship that's launched into space. The 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.680 curvature seems small at the beginning, but by the time 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.360 the rocket is really in out of space, it's really 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:36.920 veered off course. And most troubles and problems that arise 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:40.560 in co productions are a function of there being a 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.320 slight disconnect early on, which grows into a very large 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:49.719 disconnect later on once you're in production and once you're 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:53.000 trying to sort of fix things that should have been 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.880 addressed right at the very beginning. So do you have 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:59.960 a delta conference for when before you start any made 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:07.880 your co production? Now? No, because UM I I embody 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:13.599 the altar confidence might playground itself, UM navigates those that 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.960 the requirements of that the co producers in the following way. 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.280 I think that you've got to have a clear vision 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.280 of what the show is and as a producer, that's 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:27.960 your that's that's part of your job is to have 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:32.080 a clarity of vision. And then once once you have 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.680 that your job, as you bring together the creative team 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:37.720 is to create a safe environment in which that team 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:39.760 can do their very best work and to be the 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.400 first audience of one and to occasionally tap them on 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.679 the shoulder, whether it's the writer or the director or whatever, 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:46.600 and say, is that what you really meant to do? 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:48.559 Because we were heading in that direction, you've seem to 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:53.720 be slightly going off. And that's the producer's job. And 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:58.240 what I've learned having done all these co productions is 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:04.600 that once you have that vision, that's that's the vision 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:09.200 you what you sell to the the two partners, and 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:11.720 if the partners have different visions, if they don't buy 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:14.320 into that, then it's not going to work. But but 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.040 what what the the important thing for a producer to 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.360 do in the middle of these co productions is is 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:23.120 to have that clarity and to be and to be 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:27.480 dogged about protecting the visions so that when casting ideas 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:32.520 or script ideas um are presented from one party or 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:40.959 another um that we as playground sort of we we 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.000 we sort of edit that. We we we sort of 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.079 take on board what we think is right for the vision, 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.080 and we argue vehemently against things that we think are 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:51.880 wrong for the vision. UM. The worst case scenario is 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:55.520 an example UM that happened a few years back, which 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.360 was early on in Playground UM Life, when we did 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:02.119 a co production between the BC and Sky on Dracula, 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:07.720 which I co produced with Carnival and Jonathan Jonathan Reesmires. 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:11.160 Was was the central character UM and the whole premise 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:13.720 of the show was he was Dracula was returning to 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:18.640 Victorian England UM as a sort of an American, a 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:24.440 sort of entrepreneur UM and as an outsider coming into 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:30.080 English society. About four weeks into the shoot, NBC wanted 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:35.160 us to turn that character into an englishman UM and 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:40.120 the whole story structure, the whole the whole concept would 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:42.559 have just fallen in on itself, not to mention for 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:46.920 a week, shop for four weeks of material, and we 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:52.480 got on the phone um Um, garrettonem and I got 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:54.960 on the phone with with NBC and we had a conversation. 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.920 We persuaded him it was not a good idea. So 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.440 so I I think the real hurdle is not falling 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:05.920 victim to the competing pressures of the financiers and the 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:11.280 producer really being the keeper of the flame. Can you 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:15.880 talk about the how the financials of co productions work? Um, 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.520 I'm guessing that there's probably no no two projects come 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:21.040 together in exactly the same way. But do you I 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:22.920 know you've done a lot with the BBC, a lot 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:27.959 for Stars, for Amazon, for HBO. Does is there usually 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.840 does it start with one network and you bring another, 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.000 like a US partner on board or can you talk 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.720 about how the commissioning process happens? Usually? Yes, that the 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.280 model we've been following is that we find a UK 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:46.880 home for the show first develop it with them, because 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:51.000 under the British terms of trade, when a British broadcaster 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.280 puts up development money that they're basically buying an option 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:59.199 to finance. They don't own that the script that's actually developed. 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:04.400 Very very different, fundamentally different to the US business model, 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:06.360 which is why the UK business model, which is why 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.720 Playground is focused on that UK business model, because we 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.280 end up owning the shows that we produce. So the 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:18.360 model is basically, we find a partner with the British 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:22.440 broadcaster to develop a project, get it to script stage, 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.800 and then find the appropriate home in America if it 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.800 needs a home in America. Having said that almost invariably 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.040 when I started. When we start a project, we know 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:34.720 where we want to take it, or you know where 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:38.600 we think the home in America will be, whether it's Stars, 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:44.840 whether it's PBS, Amazon, UM or others and UM. But 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.520 that that that the models. So in terms of the financing, UH, 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.640 it's probably about a third of the money comes out 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:53.400 of the UK, a third of the money comes out 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.080 of the US, and the remaining third is a combination 0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:00.160 of the tax um that the tax in center in 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:04.200 the UK and an advance from a foreign distributor m HM. 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:10.120 And so because you because Playground owns that property, you 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.320 are you then responsible you take it around the world 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:16.000 and license it to other broadcasters and there's that kind 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.000 of where you make most of your profit. Well, the 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.360 it depends on the It depends on the gap between 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.640 the actual budget and the financing available. But more often 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:31.360 than not, the financing model entails before going as you're 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.200 setting up the production to go to a foreign distributor 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.680 UM and and getting an advance some sort of minimum 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.240 guarantee from them in advance that goes into the production 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.520 budget UM so that they then have the distribution rights. 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.000 So we're not actually selling territory by territory. We're dealing 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:53.480 with various distributors who distribute on our behalf in return 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.800 for them having put up some sort of minimum guarantee 0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:00.360 that helps financial the production. Is that model be coming 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:02.760 challenged in a world where you have you know, big 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:07.440 buyers like Netflix and Amazon that are increasingly want global 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.280 you know, virtually all global rates so that they can 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:14.440 so that they can air the program on their platforms, 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:19.000 you know, simultaneously around the world. Is that a challenge 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.640 for that ability to bring money in from from sales 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:27.640 in other international markets. I think that's going to have 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:30.480 little or no impact in terms of the business model 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.160 for American based producers, but it is a funder. It 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:38.560 is a challenge for British Brace producers because, as I say, 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:44.880 the the benefit and the opportunity for British producers in 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:47.640 England is to build a company in which you own, 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.040 you have a catalog, You have your own catalog which 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.440 has has value over time which you can then maybe 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.960 down the road sell and be brought out and its 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.960 It's obviously the case of a lot of British independent 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.960 particularly in the drama area, have over time sold themselves 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.120 to left Bank. Andy Harritty's company was sold so many 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.240 Carnival that produced Danton Abbey was sold to NBC Universal 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.160 UM and they were able to sell their companies at 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:19.800 a quite quite a decent price because they had distribution 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:24.000 rights that they owned the product. UM. So British producers 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.120 are going to have to make a decision going forward 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.560 about whether or not they're going to have to weigh 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:33.199 in the balance on the one hand, the value of 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.320 owning your own show under the business model in which 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:41.280 a U S partner is simply a licensee, versus the 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:44.800 opportunities to increase the amount of production they make UM 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.720 with some of the scot platforms who actually are as 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.480 you quite right you say, insisting on owning all rights. 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:55.280 So it's it's it's it's it's a balance and a 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:00.159 strategic decision and a financial decision that British producers going 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:03.679 to face as they go forward. Do you think that 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:08.439 there could advantage places like Stars and PBS and Showtime 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:14.480 that are still, if not strictly domestically focused, then very 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:18.439 regionally focused versus you know, a global platform like an 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:22.240 Amazon or Netflix. Well, I I I have another theory 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:24.400 about this, which is that I think that what happens 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:29.000 with new platforms like the Amazons and the Hulus and 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:35.320 the iTunes and Apple excuse me, is that in the 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:41.520 initial few years they they try various different creative models, 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:46.240 they look for different sort of creative um strategies, and 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:50.160 then they tend over time to sort of find their 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:56.440 own creative niche and their own creative focus. I think 0:18:56.680 --> 0:19:01.320 within that time of experimentation, so to speak, there are 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.840 opportunities for British producers. But I think what's going to 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:09.919 happen over time is as the Netflix is and the 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:16.280 Amazons take on this really global perspective but rooted in 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.400 the US marketplace, I think their taste is actually become 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.080 less eclectic and more focused, and I think that they 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:28.240 will be less interested in the long run in the 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:32.359 sort of work that British producers do best. So I 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.840 think in fact the market is going to sort of 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:43.520 is going to um an equilibrium will will emerge that 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:52.840 actually um rather than rather than than that than these 0:19:52.840 --> 0:20:00.119 platforms being multi genre and multi um and have a 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.400 whole range of programming. I think actually, funny enough, they're 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:04.359 going to do the reverse. And I think if you 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:08.120 think about what Jeff Besos has said about Amazon UM 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:10.359 and what his focus is with Amazon. I think the 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:14.359 fifty million dollar purchase of Lord of the Rings is 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:20.920 an indication that he wants very big branded series on 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:25.920 Amazon UM. He doesn't want some of the smallest series 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:31.760 and more niche programming that Amazon had explored and experimented 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.800 with before. So I suspect that that that move from 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.359 Jeff Besos will be reflected elsewhere, even though that's not 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.119 I acknowledge at the moment that's not the conventional wisdom. 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.120 But I do actually believe that's where it's going. With 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.480 so many outlets out there, so many platforms, you know, 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:51.120 it behooves everybody to have more of a specialty than 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:54.040 the than the big tent. Right now, that's an interesting 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:56.000 you know, it'll be interesting to see how those how 0:20:56.080 --> 0:21:00.560 those develop, um, you know your company. Among the among 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.040 the productions right now are Howard's End, an adaptation of 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:07.920 that of the terrific Forster novel Little Women, a true classic. 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:13.560 King Lear doesn't need a lot of introduction, Are those um, 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:17.280 are those I mean obviously fantastic literary properties. Is there 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:20.600 a certain amount of built in recognition for the titles 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.000 that is important? To you or these are these just 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:28.600 projects that you really wanted to tackle. It's less to 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:31.359 do with the instant recognition of the title itself, and 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:34.200 it's more to do with having a vision of how 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.080 one's going to sell it, both to the broadcaster but 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:41.479 also to the marketplace once it's made. And I think that, um, 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:43.000 there's a lot of as you say, there's a lot 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.480 of noise out there, there's a lot of UM, there's 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:50.480 a lot of clutter. So the ambition with every project, 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:52.879 at least for Playground, is to somehow break through that 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:57.719 clutter and to find a way of actually um like 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.160 a laser sort of sort of cutting through the dog 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.679 and getting through the other side. And so there's no 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:07.080 question that having a known title UM as part of 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:10.679 the mix is uh. It is one element. It's not 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:12.760 the only element. I mean clearly in the case of 0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:14.840 How Its End, one way of cutting through the clutter 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:16.280 that we did with How Its End was getting Clinton 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:19.280 Arlington UM getting a writer of his stature. We were 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:22.760 particularly lucky, of course, this was we actually commissioned Ken 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:26.480 before Manchester by the Sea, so UM we little did 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:28.200 we know at the time that we would end up 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:30.840 having having the series written by an Oscar and Oscar 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:33.200 winning writer. It was a very nice thing to happen 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:38.280 along the way. UM But um so I think understanding 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:44.320 how uh how a show, how we will sell a 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:47.399 show and presented to the marketplace is central to the 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:50.360 initial thinking and it's part of the Playground brand. Frankly, 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:54.040 we have decided that we were going to um focus 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:57.720 on one sector of the scriptured business, which was the 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:03.880 top end event um high high end, high quality end 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:07.560 of the market. UM. Up to now, most of our 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:11.040 work has been mini series. UM. We're about to launch 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:15.120 shortly and announced a couple of returning series that will 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:19.119 be that we're that we've been commissioned to make. And 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:25.159 UM but I think that uh, this is this is 0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:30.760 an area that I think Playground us very that this 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:33.120 is the area that we're focused on. And I think 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:35.080 and I think it's the area that we can It's 0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:36.879 the part, it's the type of drama that we we 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:41.000 can do best. Um. Not everything that we're doing is historical. 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:44.080 We've we've started shooting this week with something called chi America, 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:48.520 which is for Channel four in England, which is a 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:55.719 drama about an American photojournalist in China and UM uh 0:23:56.280 --> 0:23:58.360 that that that that was based on a play actually 0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:04.320 by Lucy Kirkwood and that's a sort of contemporary thriller. UM. 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:07.359 But again it's the way we put it together with 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:11.920 the creative team, with the casting and UM the material itself, 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:16.520 it lends itself to being something that would be written about, 0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:19.000 not just on the entertainment pages, but off the entertainment 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:22.800 pages also. That's a lot of that's that's a goal 0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:25.720 right now with so much out there, anything that can elevate. 0:24:25.720 --> 0:24:28.199 I hear that from a lot of executives. UM for 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:30.439 SHI America, is that something that you're shopping for a 0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:33.240 US partner? Well? Interesting in each America is an unusual situation. 0:24:33.240 --> 0:24:35.960 SHI America is a co production with Playground with with 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:38.680 Channel four in England and a company called All Three 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:43.520 Media UM and All three Media deficit finance the show 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:46.679 both at an equity level and as part of a 0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:51.080 with with the minimum guarantee against distribution. So actually all 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:54.560 three Media have the international rights, including the American rights. 0:24:54.600 --> 0:24:57.239 So in this instance there isn't an there isn't an 0:24:57.240 --> 0:25:04.600 American platform for cost cable company UM involved at the outset. 0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:08.040 I know, I know they're having conversations, but we funded 0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:11.760 it without that being in place. Interesting when you when 0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:14.360 you think back to the days of Nicholas Nickleby and 0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:18.240 you know your initiative to bring on mobile oil and 0:25:18.280 --> 0:25:20.240 to get to get that kind of sponsorship, that sounds 0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:25.680 like a very entrepreneurial approach for that time in British 0:25:25.680 --> 0:25:28.919 production when you think of so obviously you were you 0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:31.760 were thinking big even from the get go. When you 0:25:31.800 --> 0:25:34.159 think back though to those days compared to now in 0:25:34.280 --> 0:25:38.160