Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties podcast featuring conversations with industry
Speaker 1: leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton, Managing
Speaker 1: editor of Television for Variety, and today my guest in
Speaker 1: New York. As producer Colin Callendar. Calendar is known for
Speaker 1: having excellent taste and the relationships to bring major stars
Speaker 1: to his productions. He's also long been an innovator in
Speaker 1: financing his projects through international co productions. Collins spent more
Speaker 1: than twenty years with HBO before launching his own company, Playground,
Speaker 1: in two thousand twelve. Playground has a big presence in
Speaker 1: TV on both sides of the Atlantic. This year, he's
Speaker 1: done the adaptation of Howard's End for Stars in the BBC,
Speaker 1: King Lear with Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson for the
Speaker 1: BBC and Amazon, and Little Women for BBC and PBS.
Speaker 1: He's also very active as a stage producer, and he
Speaker 1: launched a little show on Broadway called Harry Potter and
Speaker 1: the Cursed Child. Here, Calendar sets the record straight about
Speaker 1: the high price tag for Cursed Child. Don't believe every
Speaker 1: number you hear. He also talks about the booming worldwide
Speaker 1: market for classy drama, and he offers up his Yelta
Speaker 1: conference strategy for managing international production partners. Thanks for joining
Speaker 1: us today, Colin Calendar, We really appreciate you stopping by.
Speaker 1: Let's start by talking about your company, Playground. You have
Speaker 1: a really interesting mix of TV, film, stage projects, a
Speaker 1: little show that just opened on Broadway called Harry Potter
Speaker 1: and the Cursed Child. Tell us about the growth of
Speaker 1: Playground since you launched the company in two thousand twelve.
Speaker 1: When I left, I was very keen to produce THEATA,
Speaker 1: and in fact, the very first thing I did after
Speaker 1: eating was produced the nor Eron play Lucky Guy with
Speaker 1: Tom Hanks and Funny Enough. That had been a script
Speaker 1: that was a feature film that was developed by Sony
Speaker 1: and when solely passed on it, Nora Ephron brought it
Speaker 1: to me at HBO when I was there and we
Speaker 1: we ended up not making it. But when I came
Speaker 1: back when I started Playground, I really thought that Lucky
Speaker 1: Guy could be a play, and I went to Nora
Speaker 1: and said, have you ever thought of doing this as
Speaker 1: a play, because I don't think it's going to get
Speaker 1: made as a movie anywhere, And she said, no, no,
Speaker 1: I want to do it as a movie, and she
Speaker 1: she was flying out to UM Los Angeles to meet
Speaker 1: on the Julia Childs movie, and she said, but let
Speaker 1: me I'm back in two weeks. Let me think about
Speaker 1: it and I'll give you a call. So about ten
Speaker 1: days later, I get a call from Laura saying, well,
Speaker 1: I didn't go to l A. We were caught. We
Speaker 1: stuck in New York of a snowstorm. And I've written
Speaker 1: the play. Do you want to read it? Um? And
Speaker 1: of course then I went from there, I think, what's true?
Speaker 1: Oh my career And the very first thing I produced
Speaker 1: as a producer was the television version of the Royal
Speaker 1: Shakespeare Companies Nicholas Nickleby. It was a nine hour mini
Speaker 1: series UM for the new Channel four in England, and
Speaker 1: in fact it was contract zero zero one Channel four.
Speaker 1: This was This was and in many ways that project
Speaker 1: on Reflection with retrospect embodies a number of characteristics that
Speaker 1: are that have sort of defined my work over time. UM. Firstly,
Speaker 1: the production was a mix of theater, film and television
Speaker 1: people all on the same production. It was a television
Speaker 1: series director, it was a cinematography film cinematographer was shot
Speaker 1: like a single like a movie over nine over three months.
Speaker 1: Um So, that was very much a sort of a
Speaker 1: coming together of talent from different disciplines and I think
Speaker 1: that's informed a lot, if not all, of what I've
Speaker 1: done over the years, and it's certainly at the core
Speaker 1: of Playground, the idea of drawing on my relationships with
Speaker 1: talent in the film, theater and television world. The second
Speaker 1: thing is that that Nickleby was a co production. Um
Speaker 1: and in fact, when we approached Channel four, I had
Speaker 1: already got Mobile Oil here in the States to sponsor
Speaker 1: it for syndication in America and a division of PolyGram
Speaker 1: at the time to handle the distribution. So I was
Speaker 1: able to go to Channel four and say this is
Speaker 1: going to cost five million pounds, We've got four million
Speaker 1: pounds where you put in the remaining one million pounds
Speaker 1: and they did, and so that um So, that was
Speaker 1: the business model that I have actually gone back to
Speaker 1: over and over again, because after Nicholas you had you
Speaker 1: had a long, you know, twenty year nearly twenty year
Speaker 1: run at HBO as as after Nicholas that the after Nickleby,
Speaker 1: the it was about five years of producing in England.
Speaker 1: And the reason I ended up at HBO was because
Speaker 1: we were the co producer of choice in England for
Speaker 1: HBO because HBO's creative ambitions exceeded its financial reach and
Speaker 1: so they needed partners. And I had met Michael Fuchs
Speaker 1: on the cuasette one one night um during the mip
Speaker 1: TV Festival and uh as I say, we became that
Speaker 1: the the co producer of choice. So Playground has sort
Speaker 1: of embodies those two things, both the the you know,
Speaker 1: working with Mark Rylands, the stage actor in something like
Speaker 1: wolf Hall, having Ken Lonagan, a playwright, adapt Howard's end
Speaker 1: Um making King Lear with the movie star Anthony Hopkins.
Speaker 1: That that those are characteristics. I think that inform all
Speaker 1: the shows we've done, and they are all co productions
Speaker 1: in my or another. Howard's end Sorry Warfall was of
Speaker 1: co production between the BBC and Marspis Theater. Um Canlear
Speaker 1: is a co production between BBC and Amazon, and how
Speaker 1: Its end was Stars BBC. So we've been involved in
Speaker 1: all our projects that have had both in American and
Speaker 1: the UK partner. What are the what are the benefits
Speaker 1: and what are some of the hurdles of doing a
Speaker 1: co production for a for a you know, sizeable production
Speaker 1: like a Howard's End or a king Lear Well, there
Speaker 1: are enormous hurdles um and the hurdles are primarily creative hurdles,
Speaker 1: and they are hurdles that I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people are stumbling at at the moment um. The real
Speaker 1: challenge is creating a show that that has creative integrity,
Speaker 1: that that so that the actual creative team are only
Speaker 1: serving one master, even if you, as the producer, are
Speaker 1: actually having to serve several. I remember a story going
Speaker 1: back to Nicholas Nickleby again, which is sort of apocryphal,
Speaker 1: although I didn't realize it at the time. Nicholas Nickleby
Speaker 1: was nine hours long. The Channel four in England wanted
Speaker 1: to air it in two parts, as it played on
Speaker 1: stage one night at four hours and one night at
Speaker 1: five hours. Mobile wanted to syndicate it around independent stations
Speaker 1: in the US in four to hour chunks, and PolyGram
Speaker 1: wanted to distributed internationally as nine wire one hour episodes.
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, there's no way we can make
Speaker 1: this work. And I decided, and I tried to negotiate
Speaker 1: individually with the various partners to try and find some consensus,
Speaker 1: but didn't get anywhere. So I decided to hire what's
Speaker 1: what's called the Roosevelt Room at brown Hotel, Brown's Hotel
Speaker 1: in London and Album Art Street and convene the one
Speaker 1: day sort of alta conference. And we had the guys
Speaker 1: from Mobile, the guys from Channel four, and the guys
Speaker 1: from the PolyGram distribution Company, and then I had David Egger,
Speaker 1: the writer. I had Trevor on the original stage director,
Speaker 1: and Jim Gottard, the new TV director, and myself and
Speaker 1: we had the room from nine to six in the evening.
Speaker 1: I started the meeting by saying, we have this room
Speaker 1: till six o'clock. At the moment everybody wants something different,
Speaker 1: we need to actually come away from this meeting with
Speaker 1: a consensus and support for one clear vision of the show.
Speaker 1: And if we can't do that, then well it was
Speaker 1: a good, good try, and we tried, but it didn't
Speaker 1: work out. And indeed, by the time we ended that meeting,
Speaker 1: we did have a consensus at what the form of
Speaker 1: the show should be. And I didn't realize it at
Speaker 1: the time because I was a wet behind the years
Speaker 1: sort of you know, kid producer. It was my as
Speaker 1: I say it, was my very first credit. But that
Speaker 1: really is at the core of successful co productions. It's
Speaker 1: everybody sharing the same vision from day one, and um,
Speaker 1: if there is a slight gap in terms of that consensus,
Speaker 1: it's like a rocket ship that's launched into space. The
Speaker 1: curvature seems small at the beginning, but by the time
Speaker 1: the rocket is really in out of space, it's really
Speaker 1: veered off course. And most troubles and problems that arise
Speaker 1: in co productions are a function of there being a
Speaker 1: slight disconnect early on, which grows into a very large
Speaker 1: disconnect later on once you're in production and once you're
Speaker 1: trying to sort of fix things that should have been
Speaker 1: addressed right at the very beginning. So do you have
Speaker 1: a delta conference for when before you start any made
Speaker 1: your co production? Now? No, because UM I I embody
Speaker 1: the altar confidence might playground itself, UM navigates those that
Speaker 1: the requirements of that the co producers in the following way.
Speaker 1: I think that you've got to have a clear vision
Speaker 1: of what the show is and as a producer, that's
Speaker 1: your that's that's part of your job is to have
Speaker 1: a clarity of vision. And then once once you have
Speaker 1: that your job, as you bring together the creative team
Speaker 1: is to create a safe environment in which that team
Speaker 1: can do their very best work and to be the
Speaker 1: first audience of one and to occasionally tap them on
Speaker 1: the shoulder, whether it's the writer or the director or whatever,
Speaker 1: and say, is that what you really meant to do?
Speaker 1: Because we were heading in that direction, you've seem to
Speaker 1: be slightly going off. And that's the producer's job. And
Speaker 1: what I've learned having done all these co productions is
Speaker 1: that once you have that vision, that's that's the vision
Speaker 1: you what you sell to the the two partners, and
Speaker 1: if the partners have different visions, if they don't buy
Speaker 1: into that, then it's not going to work. But but
Speaker 1: what what the the important thing for a producer to
Speaker 1: do in the middle of these co productions is is
Speaker 1: to have that clarity and to be and to be
Speaker 1: dogged about protecting the visions so that when casting ideas
Speaker 1: or script ideas um are presented from one party or
Speaker 1: another um that we as playground sort of we we
Speaker 1: we sort of edit that. We we we sort of
Speaker 1: take on board what we think is right for the vision,
Speaker 1: and we argue vehemently against things that we think are
Speaker 1: wrong for the vision. UM. The worst case scenario is
Speaker 1: an example UM that happened a few years back, which
Speaker 1: was early on in Playground UM Life, when we did
Speaker 1: a co production between the BC and Sky on Dracula,
Speaker 1: which I co produced with Carnival and Jonathan Jonathan Reesmires.
Speaker 1: Was was the central character UM and the whole premise
Speaker 1: of the show was he was Dracula was returning to
Speaker 1: Victorian England UM as a sort of an American, a
Speaker 1: sort of entrepreneur UM and as an outsider coming into
Speaker 1: English society. About four weeks into the shoot, NBC wanted
Speaker 1: us to turn that character into an englishman UM and
Speaker 1: the whole story structure, the whole the whole concept would
Speaker 1: have just fallen in on itself, not to mention for
Speaker 1: a week, shop for four weeks of material, and we
Speaker 1: got on the phone um Um, garrettonem and I got
Speaker 1: on the phone with with NBC and we had a conversation.
Speaker 1: We persuaded him it was not a good idea. So
Speaker 1: so I I think the real hurdle is not falling
Speaker 1: victim to the competing pressures of the financiers and the
Speaker 1: producer really being the keeper of the flame. Can you
Speaker 1: talk about the how the financials of co productions work? Um,
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that there's probably no no two projects come
Speaker 1: together in exactly the same way. But do you I
Speaker 1: know you've done a lot with the BBC, a lot
Speaker 1: for Stars, for Amazon, for HBO. Does is there usually
Speaker 1: does it start with one network and you bring another,
Speaker 1: like a US partner on board or can you talk
Speaker 1: about how the commissioning process happens? Usually? Yes, that the
Speaker 1: model we've been following is that we find a UK
Speaker 1: home for the show first develop it with them, because
Speaker 1: under the British terms of trade, when a British broadcaster
Speaker 1: puts up development money that they're basically buying an option
Speaker 1: to finance. They don't own that the script that's actually developed.
Speaker 1: Very very different, fundamentally different to the US business model,
Speaker 1: which is why the UK business model, which is why
Speaker 1: Playground is focused on that UK business model, because we
Speaker 1: end up owning the shows that we produce. So the
Speaker 1: model is basically, we find a partner with the British
Speaker 1: broadcaster to develop a project, get it to script stage,
Speaker 1: and then find the appropriate home in America if it
Speaker 1: needs a home in America. Having said that almost invariably
Speaker 1: when I started. When we start a project, we know
Speaker 1: where we want to take it, or you know where
Speaker 1: we think the home in America will be, whether it's Stars,
Speaker 1: whether it's PBS, Amazon, UM or others and UM. But
Speaker 1: that that that the models. So in terms of the financing, UH,
Speaker 1: it's probably about a third of the money comes out
Speaker 1: of the UK, a third of the money comes out
Speaker 1: of the US, and the remaining third is a combination
Speaker 1: of the tax um that the tax in center in
Speaker 1: the UK and an advance from a foreign distributor m HM.
Speaker 1: And so because you because Playground owns that property, you
Speaker 1: are you then responsible you take it around the world
Speaker 1: and license it to other broadcasters and there's that kind
Speaker 1: of where you make most of your profit. Well, the
Speaker 1: it depends on the It depends on the gap between
Speaker 1: the actual budget and the financing available. But more often
Speaker 1: than not, the financing model entails before going as you're
Speaker 1: setting up the production to go to a foreign distributor
Speaker 1: UM and and getting an advance some sort of minimum
Speaker 1: guarantee from them in advance that goes into the production
Speaker 1: budget UM so that they then have the distribution rights.
Speaker 1: So we're not actually selling territory by territory. We're dealing
Speaker 1: with various distributors who distribute on our behalf in return
Speaker 1: for them having put up some sort of minimum guarantee
Speaker 1: that helps financial the production. Is that model be coming
Speaker 1: challenged in a world where you have you know, big
Speaker 1: buyers like Netflix and Amazon that are increasingly want global
Speaker 1: you know, virtually all global rates so that they can
Speaker 1: so that they can air the program on their platforms,
Speaker 1: you know, simultaneously around the world. Is that a challenge
Speaker 1: for that ability to bring money in from from sales
Speaker 1: in other international markets. I think that's going to have
Speaker 1: little or no impact in terms of the business model
Speaker 1: for American based producers, but it is a funder. It
Speaker 1: is a challenge for British Brace producers because, as I say,
Speaker 1: the the benefit and the opportunity for British producers in
Speaker 1: England is to build a company in which you own,
Speaker 1: you have a catalog, You have your own catalog which
Speaker 1: has has value over time which you can then maybe
Speaker 1: down the road sell and be brought out and its
Speaker 1: It's obviously the case of a lot of British independent
Speaker 1: particularly in the drama area, have over time sold themselves
Speaker 1: to left Bank. Andy Harritty's company was sold so many
Speaker 1: Carnival that produced Danton Abbey was sold to NBC Universal
Speaker 1: UM and they were able to sell their companies at
Speaker 1: a quite quite a decent price because they had distribution
Speaker 1: rights that they owned the product. UM. So British producers
Speaker 1: are going to have to make a decision going forward
Speaker 1: about whether or not they're going to have to weigh
Speaker 1: in the balance on the one hand, the value of
Speaker 1: owning your own show under the business model in which
Speaker 1: a U S partner is simply a licensee, versus the
Speaker 1: opportunities to increase the amount of production they make UM
Speaker 1: with some of the scot platforms who actually are as
Speaker 1: you quite right you say, insisting on owning all rights.
Speaker 1: So it's it's it's it's it's a balance and a
Speaker 1: strategic decision and a financial decision that British producers going
Speaker 1: to face as they go forward. Do you think that
Speaker 1: there could advantage places like Stars and PBS and Showtime
Speaker 1: that are still, if not strictly domestically focused, then very
Speaker 1: regionally focused versus you know, a global platform like an
Speaker 1: Amazon or Netflix. Well, I I I have another theory
Speaker 1: about this, which is that I think that what happens
Speaker 1: with new platforms like the Amazons and the Hulus and
Speaker 1: the iTunes and Apple excuse me, is that in the
Speaker 1: initial few years they they try various different creative models,
Speaker 1: they look for different sort of creative um strategies, and
Speaker 1: then they tend over time to sort of find their
Speaker 1: own creative niche and their own creative focus. I think
Speaker 1: within that time of experimentation, so to speak, there are
Speaker 1: opportunities for British producers. But I think what's going to
Speaker 1: happen over time is as the Netflix is and the
Speaker 1: Amazons take on this really global perspective but rooted in
Speaker 1: the US marketplace, I think their taste is actually become
Speaker 1: less eclectic and more focused, and I think that they
Speaker 1: will be less interested in the long run in the
Speaker 1: sort of work that British producers do best. So I
Speaker 1: think in fact the market is going to sort of
Speaker 1: is going to um an equilibrium will will emerge that
Speaker 1: actually um rather than rather than than that than these
Speaker 1: platforms being multi genre and multi um and have a
Speaker 1: whole range of programming. I think actually, funny enough, they're
Speaker 1: going to do the reverse. And I think if you
Speaker 1: think about what Jeff Besos has said about Amazon UM
Speaker 1: and what his focus is with Amazon. I think the
Speaker 1: fifty million dollar purchase of Lord of the Rings is
Speaker 1: an indication that he wants very big branded series on
Speaker 1: Amazon UM. He doesn't want some of the smallest series
Speaker 1: and more niche programming that Amazon had explored and experimented
Speaker 1: with before. So I suspect that that that move from
Speaker 1: Jeff Besos will be reflected elsewhere, even though that's not
Speaker 1: I acknowledge at the moment that's not the conventional wisdom.
Speaker 1: But I do actually believe that's where it's going. With
Speaker 1: so many outlets out there, so many platforms, you know,
Speaker 1: it behooves everybody to have more of a specialty than
Speaker 1: the than the big tent. Right now, that's an interesting
Speaker 1: you know, it'll be interesting to see how those how
Speaker 1: those develop, um, you know your company. Among the among
Speaker 1: the productions right now are Howard's End, an adaptation of
Speaker 1: that of the terrific Forster novel Little Women, a true classic.
Speaker 1: King Lear doesn't need a lot of introduction, Are those um,
Speaker 1: are those I mean obviously fantastic literary properties. Is there
Speaker 1: a certain amount of built in recognition for the titles
Speaker 1: that is important? To you or these are these just
Speaker 1: projects that you really wanted to tackle. It's less to
Speaker 1: do with the instant recognition of the title itself, and
Speaker 1: it's more to do with having a vision of how
Speaker 1: one's going to sell it, both to the broadcaster but
Speaker 1: also to the marketplace once it's made. And I think that, um,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of as you say, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of noise out there, there's a lot of UM, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of clutter. So the ambition with every project,
Speaker 1: at least for Playground, is to somehow break through that
Speaker 1: clutter and to find a way of actually um like
Speaker 1: a laser sort of sort of cutting through the dog
Speaker 1: and getting through the other side. And so there's no
Speaker 1: question that having a known title UM as part of
Speaker 1: the mix is uh. It is one element. It's not
Speaker 1: the only element. I mean clearly in the case of
Speaker 1: How Its End, one way of cutting through the clutter
Speaker 1: that we did with How Its End was getting Clinton
Speaker 1: Arlington UM getting a writer of his stature. We were
Speaker 1: particularly lucky, of course, this was we actually commissioned Ken
Speaker 1: before Manchester by the Sea, so UM we little did
Speaker 1: we know at the time that we would end up
Speaker 1: having having the series written by an Oscar and Oscar
Speaker 1: winning writer. It was a very nice thing to happen
Speaker 1: along the way. UM But um so I think understanding
Speaker 1: how uh how a show, how we will sell a
Speaker 1: show and presented to the marketplace is central to the
Speaker 1: initial thinking and it's part of the Playground brand. Frankly,
Speaker 1: we have decided that we were going to um focus
Speaker 1: on one sector of the scriptured business, which was the
Speaker 1: top end event um high high end, high quality end
Speaker 1: of the market. UM. Up to now, most of our
Speaker 1: work has been mini series. UM. We're about to launch
Speaker 1: shortly and announced a couple of returning series that will
Speaker 1: be that we're that we've been commissioned to make. And
Speaker 1: UM but I think that uh, this is this is
Speaker 1: an area that I think Playground us very that this
Speaker 1: is the area that we're focused on. And I think
Speaker 1: and I think it's the area that we can It's
Speaker 1: the part, it's the type of drama that we we
Speaker 1: can do best. Um. Not everything that we're doing is historical.
Speaker 1: We've we've started shooting this week with something called chi America,
Speaker 1: which is for Channel four in England, which is a
Speaker 1: drama about an American photojournalist in China and UM uh
Speaker 1: that that that that was based on a play actually
Speaker 1: by Lucy Kirkwood and that's a sort of contemporary thriller. UM.
Speaker 1: But again it's the way we put it together with
Speaker 1: the creative team, with the casting and UM the material itself,
Speaker 1: it lends itself to being something that would be written about,
Speaker 1: not just on the entertainment pages, but off the entertainment
Speaker 1: pages also. That's a lot of that's that's a goal
Speaker 1: right now with so much out there, anything that can elevate.
Speaker 1: I hear that from a lot of executives. UM for
Speaker 1: SHI America, is that something that you're shopping for a
Speaker 1: US partner? Well? Interesting in each America is an unusual situation.
Speaker 1: SHI America is a co production with Playground with with
Speaker 1: Channel four in England and a company called All Three
Speaker 1: Media UM and All three Media deficit finance the show
Speaker 1: both at an equity level and as part of a
Speaker 1: with with the minimum guarantee against distribution. So actually all
Speaker 1: three Media have the international rights, including the American rights.
Speaker 1: So in this instance there isn't an there isn't an
Speaker 1: American platform for cost cable company UM involved at the outset.
Speaker 1: I know, I know they're having conversations, but we funded
Speaker 1: it without that being in place. Interesting when you when
Speaker 1: you think back to the days of Nicholas Nickleby and
Speaker 1: you know your initiative to bring on mobile oil and
Speaker 1: to get to get that kind of sponsorship, that sounds
Speaker 1: like a very entrepreneurial approach for that time in British
Speaker 1: production when you think of so obviously you were you
Speaker 1: were thinking big even from the get go. When you
Speaker 1: think back though to those days compared to now in
Speaker 1: terms of the opportunity, the ability to monetize, the ability
Speaker 1: to distribute your shows around the world, it must be
Speaker 1: kind of a night and day contract is night and day.
Speaker 1: But just going back to what you said about the
Speaker 1: Mobile situation, it was doubly innovative because what Mobile did
Speaker 1: it didn't go out. Mobile at the time was the
Speaker 1: sole sponsor of Masterpiece Theater on PBS. But my but
Speaker 1: Mobile didn't put didn't uh air Nicholas a copy on PBS.
Speaker 1: They put together a loose group of ninety percent of
Speaker 1: independent stations around the country and created an ad hoc
Speaker 1: network for the four nights that the show went out,
Speaker 1: and that that's this was three. I think it was
Speaker 1: so back then. This was before Fox UM, this was
Speaker 1: before cable, basic cable had exploded, and so this was
Speaker 1: this was that that was a very bold move on
Speaker 1: their part. It went out here on UM it w
Speaker 1: n W New York I think it was, and it
Speaker 1: was kat l A and in Los Angeles it wasn't.
Speaker 1: It wasn't the PBS stations. It with the independent stations.
Speaker 1: So has it changed, It's changed dramatically. I think that
Speaker 1: uh the size that the big change for British producers
Speaker 1: in particular came with Dwanton Abbey. And it wasn't that
Speaker 1: Downton Abbey. The phenomenon of Danton Abbey wasn't that the
Speaker 1: show as good as the show was and is it was,
Speaker 1: it was a great show. It wasn't that it was
Speaker 1: the best British drama to have come out of England
Speaker 1: ever and therefore it became more successful. It wasn't that
Speaker 1: at all, because there had been lots of wonderful British
Speaker 1: dramas before it. My own Nicholas Nick would be upstairs
Speaker 1: downstairs dueling the crown and so on. But what that
Speaker 1: what distinguished Downtown Abbey was it was the first British
Speaker 1: drama on PBS to ride to catch and ride the
Speaker 1: tsunami of s V O D. Because what happened was
Speaker 1: with that show, episodes were available on iTunes or on
Speaker 1: Netflix or uh Amazon within minutes of it actually being
Speaker 1: on PPS. Normally, what would have happened on PBS is
Speaker 1: for a British show, is it would have played on
Speaker 1: a Sunday night at nine o'clock. It would have played
Speaker 1: over the season and then maybe six nine months later
Speaker 1: you might have been able to get the box sets right,
Speaker 1: they'd tell you a video right. So now with with
Speaker 1: Downton Abbey, suddenly a whole universe across the country had
Speaker 1: access to this show in a way that never before,
Speaker 1: which is why it became such a water cooler uh title,
Speaker 1: because because many, many, many more people had access to
Speaker 1: it while it was going on on PBS, and that
Speaker 1: that was a big change, and I felt that that
Speaker 1: created an enormous opportunity for British producers and um, you know,
Speaker 1: it's to a large extent, my own career has been
Speaker 1: characterized by me me sort of sort of zelig like
Speaker 1: being at the right time, right place, at the right time.
Speaker 1: I was first, the first in the Channel four, Um
Speaker 1: with the first independent production out of the UK. I
Speaker 1: got to HBO just before it became the phenomenon it was,
Speaker 1: and we rode the wave of hbos and the impact
Speaker 1: BO had on the marketplace, and I created Playground just
Speaker 1: at the time when the S. E O D marketplace
Speaker 1: was Now was the new dynamic that was changing the
Speaker 1: marketplace UM and creating new opportunities. So I think that
Speaker 1: part part of the fun of this for me is
Speaker 1: constantly trying to reinvent and discover the new models. I mean,
Speaker 1: in the case of King Lear, we have a six
Speaker 1: film deal with with Amazon for King Lear UM and
Speaker 1: Lear is the first of the six and there are
Speaker 1: going to be Shakespeare and no, no, no, they're going
Speaker 1: to be English, They're going to be English dramas. In fact,
Speaker 1: what happened was we made Um well, we made something
Speaker 1: called The Dresser with Anthony Hopkins and Ian McKellen, and
Speaker 1: Amazon were very very keen to take The Dresser and
Speaker 1: that would have been the first of a six part deal.
Speaker 1: What actually happened was it the time it took to
Speaker 1: negotiate the deal with Amazon. UM was it was taking
Speaker 1: longer than I had because we had a particular window
Speaker 1: with with Antie Hopkinson and McKellen and in the end
Speaker 1: stars Um stepped in and supported the film and were
Speaker 1: wonderful partners. Um. But the idea is to find British
Speaker 1: plays that we can do with the BBC and Amazon
Speaker 1: that will attract movie stars and so um, so it's
Speaker 1: not Shakespeare, it's the fact that it's it's Antie Hopkins
Speaker 1: and Emma Thompson directed by Richard Air. That really is
Speaker 1: what drove king Lear project. It was great. You've got
Speaker 1: Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson and king Lear while doing
Speaker 1: also doing a remakeup of Howard's You Are the This
Speaker 1: is why I'm such a fan of yours. You're the
Speaker 1: first person to clock that or to mention that it's
Speaker 1: doubly interesting because Haley Outwall m her mentor is Emma
Speaker 1: Thompson world. So it's a very small world. So um yeah,
Speaker 1: but yes, that was funny. That's good. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: the business of stage you obviously, Harry Potter and the
Speaker 1: Christ and Child incredible record breaking run on the West
Speaker 1: End just opened on Broadway. Not gonna worry about that
Speaker 1: one making, you know, recouping its costs. But outside of
Speaker 1: something like a Harry Potter. Can you make money on stage?
Speaker 1: Can you make money producing plays? Um? The first player
Speaker 1: I produced was, as I said, Lucky Guy with Tom Hanks,
Speaker 1: directed by George Wolfe, written by Nora Efron and Roy Furman,
Speaker 1: who's a theater producer and investor. He has told me
Speaker 1: from the beginning that that's that completely spoiled me because
Speaker 1: because that did make a lot of money. And at
Speaker 1: the time it was now four years ago. UM, at
Speaker 1: that point we were the highest grossing play in the
Speaker 1: history of Broadway. We had the highest weekly gross of
Speaker 1: any play ever on Broadway. UM. Yes, I think there
Speaker 1: is uh, if you're smart art and and sophisticated in
Speaker 1: the in the putting together of the material and the
Speaker 1: right creative talent. That said, it is a very very
Speaker 1: tough time right now for straight players on Broadway, very
Speaker 1: tough time. I think there are only five or six
Speaker 1: new players on Broadway this year. Um. And whereas in
Speaker 1: London that the marketplace is much more compatible with or
Speaker 1: much easier for a new play. I think some of
Speaker 1: the players that have done well over here, if you
Speaker 1: take Curious Incident for example, I don't think that play
Speaker 1: could ever have opened as an original play on Broadway
Speaker 1: in the way it did in the UK. And that's
Speaker 1: partly because of the National Theater and the Royal Shapes
Speaker 1: Bake Company and the way in which British theater companies
Speaker 1: have sort of government funding which allows them to take
Speaker 1: certain sort of creative risks that is harder for the
Speaker 1: the Broadway to do. But and the other thing is
Speaker 1: that the costs are very different. You know, a play,
Speaker 1: a play in London that would cost food pounds to mount,
Speaker 1: would cost four million pounds to mount on Broadway. The
Speaker 1: cost cost differentials are extraordinary. And is that mostly labor
Speaker 1: in town costs? Yeah, it's different. Um, Harry Potter and
Speaker 1: the Cursed Child has, you know, set records for budget
Speaker 1: and expectation. I would imagine it was daunting to when
Speaker 1: you sat down to really think about how are we
Speaker 1: going to translate this incredible franchise that means so much
Speaker 1: to so many kids, including my seventeen year old son,
Speaker 1: to translate that to it to an equally dazzling stage experience.
Speaker 1: Two things, firstly, I got to correct this number. There's
Speaker 1: a number out there of sixty eight million that people
Speaker 1: are saying is what Harry cost to produce not okay,
Speaker 1: we're getting it on record here as um, that number
Speaker 1: included it, um and I don't even know what the
Speaker 1: final number was rolled into it. That the amount of
Speaker 1: money that a t G. The Ambassador Theater Group, spent
Speaker 1: on renovating the theater, that was completely that was a
Speaker 1: completely separate capital card, had nothing to do with the
Speaker 1: capitalization of the play. So the cost of the managing
Speaker 1: the play was was nowhere close to that. Can you
Speaker 1: give us well, I mean, you know it's own public
Speaker 1: records already is less so um. So that's the first thing.
Speaker 1: The second thing is that, UM, my partner on Harry
Speaker 1: Potter Sonia Friedman, the two of us started from a
Speaker 1: very simple place. We were interested in exploring, how does
Speaker 1: a kid who's grown up for eleven years living under
Speaker 1: the stairs alone with who's an orphan, um, who doesn't
Speaker 1: know what happened to his parents, who's living with really
Speaker 1: sort of mean spirited arnt an uncle. Um, how did
Speaker 1: he grow up to that to be an adult? And
Speaker 1: and above that, even more than that, how does he
Speaker 1: how does he become a father? He hasn't he's never
Speaker 1: really had a father. He hasn't had a father. He
Speaker 1: hasn't been farther he did. He the notion of having
Speaker 1: parents was and was something he never experienced. The final
Speaker 1: chapter of the seventh book, it's not a chapter to
Speaker 1: mean the pro The epilogue of the seventh book is
Speaker 1: a scene with Harry and Jinny taking their middle son
Speaker 1: two King's Cross to go to Hogwarts. So it's Harry
Speaker 1: and Jenny as adults, as parents with with with a
Speaker 1: middle son who is a troubled kid. That epilogue is
Speaker 1: the opening scene of the play. And when we went
Speaker 1: to go and see J. K. Rowling, we said, we
Speaker 1: think there is a play here in exploring this sort
Speaker 1: of emotional and psychological landscape of Harry as an adult,
Speaker 1: and in a way that maybe a book or a
Speaker 1: film wouldn't necessarily do now, and it would need it
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily we set to we we we imagine because
Speaker 1: you created such such a sort of fully dimensional world
Speaker 1: of Harry, that there are things that you know about
Speaker 1: Harry and the characters that have actually never actually made
Speaker 1: it into the books or the films, things that you've
Speaker 1: just had in your head as part of the creation
Speaker 1: of this whole parallel universe. And it would be interesting
Speaker 1: to explore some of those things. And one of the
Speaker 1: joys of the play is a at the core of it,
Speaker 1: it is the story of a father and a son,
Speaker 1: and a troubled father and a son. And so as
Speaker 1: an audience member, um, whether you're a kid, whether you
Speaker 1: whether a teenager, or whether whether you're at thirty year
Speaker 1: old that grew up with the books, or whether you're
Speaker 1: a parent, um uh, you'll relate in one form or
Speaker 1: another to those characters. But the other thing that happens
Speaker 1: in the play that's very interesting is that characters that
Speaker 1: you think you knew from the Seven Books or the films,
Speaker 1: you actually begin to see in a new light you've
Speaker 1: seen you learn more about them, um. And they open
Speaker 1: up to each other in the way that adults would
Speaker 1: because they have the distance of time um in terms
Speaker 1: of looking back at their lives um and uh. And
Speaker 1: and so it's it's it's it was. It's been very
Speaker 1: interesting to explore those characters that are otherwise familiar characters
Speaker 1: and look at the look at them in a more
Speaker 1: dimensional way as adults. So it's a completely new story.
Speaker 1: It's not an adaptation of an existing book. It's not
Speaker 1: it's not a musical. Um, it's in two parts with
Speaker 1: a cliffhanger at the end of part one. It's it's
Speaker 1: unlike in fact, any other play that's that's been produced
Speaker 1: of this. You know, if you think about the players
Speaker 1: that are in two parts, most of them up to
Speaker 1: now have been self contained parts. Angels of America, the
Speaker 1: first play was performed a year or two before the
Speaker 1: second play came out. UM, going back to Nicholas Nickoby
Speaker 1: for example, the first play was sort of self contained.
Speaker 1: You could just see the self first play and not
Speaker 1: you didn't have to see the second play to see
Speaker 1: how things resolve themselves. And we had a very interesting
Speaker 1: experience here because what happened was uh when when the play,
Speaker 1: but when it began in previews, we were slightly worried
Speaker 1: that maybe people who weren't fan to the book, we
Speaker 1: didn't know the book would have would have would wouldn't
Speaker 1: be able to follow the story, and we were thinking
Speaker 1: about having some sort of digital display in the lobby
Speaker 1: that explained the stories and some of the characters. But
Speaker 1: then as we watched the audience we were watching something
Speaker 1: really quite wonderful happened, which was that people were talking
Speaker 1: to each other and people were asking questions of each other,
Speaker 1: and the fans were telling the non fans or that
Speaker 1: what they were explaining certain parts of the story. And
Speaker 1: because the audience was staying with each other for the
Speaker 1: whole day and for part one and part two, you're
Speaker 1: sitting in the same seat, so you have the same neighbors,
Speaker 1: people began to talk to each other and know each other,
Speaker 1: and suddenly there was this extraordinary um dialogue going on
Speaker 1: within the audience between people all of different ages, all
Speaker 1: with differing knowledges of Harry Potter. And it is actually
Speaker 1: the fact that that that we've we're certainly true in
Speaker 1: England that there are lots of people and we've seen
Speaker 1: this online all the time who have made fast new
Speaker 1: friends based on who they met when they saw the show. Um,
Speaker 1: so we were so so what became clear was if
Speaker 1: people didn't know what what, why were people wing and
Speaker 1: are in at that particular moment of who was that character?
Speaker 1: They would ask people around them and the fans would explain.
Speaker 1: And so we never put up the digital screen and
Speaker 1: we we we just allowed that sort of that sort
Speaker 1: of dialogue and the communal reaction to we we try
Speaker 1: to foster it an old fashioned interactive experience, an old
Speaker 1: fashion throughout experience. Collin Calendar, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: your time. It's been really interesting talking with you and
Speaker 1: hear and getting a visibility into into the the market
Speaker 1: for British productions and also for for playground. That's a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thanks for listening. Be sure to
Speaker 1: join us next week for another episode of Strictly Business.