1 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties podcast featuring conversations with industry 2 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton, Managing 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: editor of Television for Variety, and today my guest in 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: New York. As producer Colin Callendar. Calendar is known for 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: having excellent taste and the relationships to bring major stars 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: to his productions. He's also long been an innovator in 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: financing his projects through international co productions. Collins spent more 8 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: than twenty years with HBO before launching his own company, Playground, 9 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: in two thousand twelve. Playground has a big presence in 10 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: TV on both sides of the Atlantic. This year, he's 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: done the adaptation of Howard's End for Stars in the BBC, 12 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: King Lear with Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson for the 13 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: BBC and Amazon, and Little Women for BBC and PBS. 14 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: He's also very active as a stage producer, and he 15 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: launched a little show on Broadway called Harry Potter and 16 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: the Cursed Child. Here, Calendar sets the record straight about 17 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: the high price tag for Cursed Child. Don't believe every 18 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: number you hear. He also talks about the booming worldwide 19 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: market for classy drama, and he offers up his Yelta 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: conference strategy for managing international production partners. Thanks for joining 21 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: us today, Colin Calendar, We really appreciate you stopping by. 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: Let's start by talking about your company, Playground. You have 23 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: a really interesting mix of TV, film, stage projects, a 24 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: little show that just opened on Broadway called Harry Potter 25 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: and the Cursed Child. Tell us about the growth of 26 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: Playground since you launched the company in two thousand twelve. 27 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: When I left, I was very keen to produce THEATA, 28 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: and in fact, the very first thing I did after 29 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: eating was produced the nor Eron play Lucky Guy with 30 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: Tom Hanks and Funny Enough. That had been a script 31 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: that was a feature film that was developed by Sony 32 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: and when solely passed on it, Nora Ephron brought it 33 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: to me at HBO when I was there and we 34 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,839 Speaker 1: we ended up not making it. But when I came 35 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: back when I started Playground, I really thought that Lucky 36 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: Guy could be a play, and I went to Nora 37 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: and said, have you ever thought of doing this as 38 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: a play, because I don't think it's going to get 39 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: made as a movie anywhere, And she said, no, no, 40 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: I want to do it as a movie, and she 41 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: she was flying out to UM Los Angeles to meet 42 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: on the Julia Childs movie, and she said, but let 43 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: me I'm back in two weeks. Let me think about 44 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: it and I'll give you a call. So about ten 45 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: days later, I get a call from Laura saying, well, 46 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: I didn't go to l A. We were caught. We 47 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: stuck in New York of a snowstorm. And I've written 48 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: the play. Do you want to read it? Um? And 49 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: of course then I went from there, I think, what's true? 50 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: Oh my career And the very first thing I produced 51 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: as a producer was the television version of the Royal 52 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: Shakespeare Companies Nicholas Nickleby. It was a nine hour mini 53 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: series UM for the new Channel four in England, and 54 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: in fact it was contract zero zero one Channel four. 55 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: This was This was and in many ways that project 56 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: on Reflection with retrospect embodies a number of characteristics that 57 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: are that have sort of defined my work over time. UM. Firstly, 58 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: the production was a mix of theater, film and television 59 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: people all on the same production. It was a television 60 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: series director, it was a cinematography film cinematographer was shot 61 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: like a single like a movie over nine over three months. 62 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: Um So, that was very much a sort of a 63 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: coming together of talent from different disciplines and I think 64 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: that's informed a lot, if not all, of what I've 65 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: done over the years, and it's certainly at the core 66 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: of Playground, the idea of drawing on my relationships with 67 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: talent in the film, theater and television world. The second 68 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: thing is that that Nickleby was a co production. Um 69 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: and in fact, when we approached Channel four, I had 70 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: already got Mobile Oil here in the States to sponsor 71 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: it for syndication in America and a division of PolyGram 72 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: at the time to handle the distribution. So I was 73 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: able to go to Channel four and say this is 74 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 1: going to cost five million pounds, We've got four million 75 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: pounds where you put in the remaining one million pounds 76 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: and they did, and so that um So, that was 77 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: the business model that I have actually gone back to 78 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: over and over again, because after Nicholas you had you 79 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: had a long, you know, twenty year nearly twenty year 80 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: run at HBO as as after Nicholas that the after Nickleby, 81 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: the it was about five years of producing in England. 82 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: And the reason I ended up at HBO was because 83 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: we were the co producer of choice in England for 84 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: HBO because HBO's creative ambitions exceeded its financial reach and 85 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: so they needed partners. And I had met Michael Fuchs 86 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: on the cuasette one one night um during the mip 87 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: TV Festival and uh as I say, we became that 88 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: the the co producer of choice. So Playground has sort 89 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: of embodies those two things, both the the you know, 90 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: working with Mark Rylands, the stage actor in something like 91 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: wolf Hall, having Ken Lonagan, a playwright, adapt Howard's end 92 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: Um making King Lear with the movie star Anthony Hopkins. 93 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: That that those are characteristics. I think that inform all 94 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: the shows we've done, and they are all co productions 95 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 1: in my or another. Howard's end Sorry Warfall was of 96 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: co production between the BBC and Marspis Theater. Um Canlear 97 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: is a co production between BBC and Amazon, and how 98 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: Its end was Stars BBC. So we've been involved in 99 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 1: all our projects that have had both in American and 100 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: the UK partner. What are the what are the benefits 101 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: and what are some of the hurdles of doing a 102 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: co production for a for a you know, sizeable production 103 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: like a Howard's End or a king Lear Well, there 104 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: are enormous hurdles um and the hurdles are primarily creative hurdles, 105 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: and they are hurdles that I think a lot of 106 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: people are stumbling at at the moment um. The real 107 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: challenge is creating a show that that has creative integrity, 108 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: that that so that the actual creative team are only 109 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: serving one master, even if you, as the producer, are 110 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: actually having to serve several. I remember a story going 111 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: back to Nicholas Nickleby again, which is sort of apocryphal, 112 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: although I didn't realize it at the time. Nicholas Nickleby 113 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: was nine hours long. The Channel four in England wanted 114 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: to air it in two parts, as it played on 115 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: stage one night at four hours and one night at 116 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: five hours. Mobile wanted to syndicate it around independent stations 117 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: in the US in four to hour chunks, and PolyGram 118 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: wanted to distributed internationally as nine wire one hour episodes. 119 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, there's no way we can make 120 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: this work. And I decided, and I tried to negotiate 121 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: individually with the various partners to try and find some consensus, 122 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: but didn't get anywhere. So I decided to hire what's 123 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: what's called the Roosevelt Room at brown Hotel, Brown's Hotel 124 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: in London and Album Art Street and convene the one 125 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: day sort of alta conference. And we had the guys 126 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: from Mobile, the guys from Channel four, and the guys 127 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: from the PolyGram distribution Company, and then I had David Egger, 128 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: the writer. I had Trevor on the original stage director, 129 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: and Jim Gottard, the new TV director, and myself and 130 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: we had the room from nine to six in the evening. 131 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: I started the meeting by saying, we have this room 132 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: till six o'clock. At the moment everybody wants something different, 133 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: we need to actually come away from this meeting with 134 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: a consensus and support for one clear vision of the show. 135 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: And if we can't do that, then well it was 136 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: a good, good try, and we tried, but it didn't 137 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: work out. And indeed, by the time we ended that meeting, 138 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: we did have a consensus at what the form of 139 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: the show should be. And I didn't realize it at 140 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: the time because I was a wet behind the years 141 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: sort of you know, kid producer. It was my as 142 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: I say it, was my very first credit. But that 143 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 1: really is at the core of successful co productions. It's 144 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: everybody sharing the same vision from day one, and um, 145 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 1: if there is a slight gap in terms of that consensus, 146 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: it's like a rocket ship that's launched into space. The 147 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: curvature seems small at the beginning, but by the time 148 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: the rocket is really in out of space, it's really 149 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: veered off course. And most troubles and problems that arise 150 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: in co productions are a function of there being a 151 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: slight disconnect early on, which grows into a very large 152 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:49,719 Speaker 1: disconnect later on once you're in production and once you're 153 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: trying to sort of fix things that should have been 154 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: addressed right at the very beginning. So do you have 155 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: a delta conference for when before you start any made 156 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: your co production? Now? No, because UM I I embody 157 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:13,599 Speaker 1: the altar confidence might playground itself, UM navigates those that 158 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: the requirements of that the co producers in the following way. 159 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: I think that you've got to have a clear vision 160 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: of what the show is and as a producer, that's 161 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: your that's that's part of your job is to have 162 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: a clarity of vision. And then once once you have 163 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: that your job, as you bring together the creative team 164 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: is to create a safe environment in which that team 165 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: can do their very best work and to be the 166 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: first audience of one and to occasionally tap them on 167 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: the shoulder, whether it's the writer or the director or whatever, 168 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: and say, is that what you really meant to do? 169 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 1: Because we were heading in that direction, you've seem to 170 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: be slightly going off. And that's the producer's job. And 171 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: what I've learned having done all these co productions is 172 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: that once you have that vision, that's that's the vision 173 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: you what you sell to the the two partners, and 174 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: if the partners have different visions, if they don't buy 175 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: into that, then it's not going to work. But but 176 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: what what the the important thing for a producer to 177 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: do in the middle of these co productions is is 178 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: to have that clarity and to be and to be 179 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: dogged about protecting the visions so that when casting ideas 180 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: or script ideas um are presented from one party or 181 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 1: another um that we as playground sort of we we 182 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: we sort of edit that. We we we sort of 183 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 1: take on board what we think is right for the vision, 184 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: and we argue vehemently against things that we think are 185 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: wrong for the vision. UM. The worst case scenario is 186 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: an example UM that happened a few years back, which 187 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: was early on in Playground UM Life, when we did 188 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,119 Speaker 1: a co production between the BC and Sky on Dracula, 189 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: which I co produced with Carnival and Jonathan Jonathan Reesmires. 190 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: Was was the central character UM and the whole premise 191 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: of the show was he was Dracula was returning to 192 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: Victorian England UM as a sort of an American, a 193 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: sort of entrepreneur UM and as an outsider coming into 194 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: English society. About four weeks into the shoot, NBC wanted 195 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: us to turn that character into an englishman UM and 196 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: the whole story structure, the whole the whole concept would 197 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: have just fallen in on itself, not to mention for 198 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: a week, shop for four weeks of material, and we 199 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: got on the phone um Um, garrettonem and I got 200 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: on the phone with with NBC and we had a conversation. 201 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: We persuaded him it was not a good idea. So 202 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: so I I think the real hurdle is not falling 203 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: victim to the competing pressures of the financiers and the 204 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: producer really being the keeper of the flame. Can you 205 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: talk about the how the financials of co productions work? Um, 206 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: I'm guessing that there's probably no no two projects come 207 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: together in exactly the same way. But do you I 208 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: know you've done a lot with the BBC, a lot 209 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 1: for Stars, for Amazon, for HBO. Does is there usually 210 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: does it start with one network and you bring another, 211 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: like a US partner on board or can you talk 212 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: about how the commissioning process happens? Usually? Yes, that the 213 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: model we've been following is that we find a UK 214 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: home for the show first develop it with them, because 215 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: under the British terms of trade, when a British broadcaster 216 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: puts up development money that they're basically buying an option 217 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 1: to finance. They don't own that the script that's actually developed. 218 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: Very very different, fundamentally different to the US business model, 219 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: which is why the UK business model, which is why 220 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: Playground is focused on that UK business model, because we 221 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: end up owning the shows that we produce. So the 222 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: model is basically, we find a partner with the British 223 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: broadcaster to develop a project, get it to script stage, 224 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: and then find the appropriate home in America if it 225 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: needs a home in America. Having said that almost invariably 226 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: when I started. When we start a project, we know 227 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: where we want to take it, or you know where 228 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: we think the home in America will be, whether it's Stars, 229 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: whether it's PBS, Amazon, UM or others and UM. But 230 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: that that that the models. So in terms of the financing, UH, 231 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: it's probably about a third of the money comes out 232 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: of the UK, a third of the money comes out 233 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: of the US, and the remaining third is a combination 234 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: of the tax um that the tax in center in 235 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: the UK and an advance from a foreign distributor m HM. 236 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: And so because you because Playground owns that property, you 237 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: are you then responsible you take it around the world 238 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: and license it to other broadcasters and there's that kind 239 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: of where you make most of your profit. Well, the 240 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: it depends on the It depends on the gap between 241 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: the actual budget and the financing available. But more often 242 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: than not, the financing model entails before going as you're 243 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: setting up the production to go to a foreign distributor 244 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: UM and and getting an advance some sort of minimum 245 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: guarantee from them in advance that goes into the production 246 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: budget UM so that they then have the distribution rights. 247 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: So we're not actually selling territory by territory. We're dealing 248 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: with various distributors who distribute on our behalf in return 249 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: for them having put up some sort of minimum guarantee 250 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: that helps financial the production. Is that model be coming 251 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: challenged in a world where you have you know, big 252 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: buyers like Netflix and Amazon that are increasingly want global 253 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: you know, virtually all global rates so that they can 254 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: so that they can air the program on their platforms, 255 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, simultaneously around the world. Is that a challenge 256 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: for that ability to bring money in from from sales 257 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: in other international markets. I think that's going to have 258 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: little or no impact in terms of the business model 259 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: for American based producers, but it is a funder. It 260 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: is a challenge for British Brace producers because, as I say, 261 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: the the benefit and the opportunity for British producers in 262 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: England is to build a company in which you own, 263 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: you have a catalog, You have your own catalog which 264 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: has has value over time which you can then maybe 265 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: down the road sell and be brought out and its 266 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: It's obviously the case of a lot of British independent 267 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: particularly in the drama area, have over time sold themselves 268 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: to left Bank. Andy Harritty's company was sold so many 269 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: Carnival that produced Danton Abbey was sold to NBC Universal 270 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: UM and they were able to sell their companies at 271 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: a quite quite a decent price because they had distribution 272 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: rights that they owned the product. UM. So British producers 273 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 1: are going to have to make a decision going forward 274 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: about whether or not they're going to have to weigh 275 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: in the balance on the one hand, the value of 276 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: owning your own show under the business model in which 277 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: a U S partner is simply a licensee, versus the 278 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: opportunities to increase the amount of production they make UM 279 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: with some of the scot platforms who actually are as 280 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: you quite right you say, insisting on owning all rights. 281 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: So it's it's it's it's it's a balance and a 282 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: strategic decision and a financial decision that British producers going 283 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: to face as they go forward. Do you think that 284 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 1: there could advantage places like Stars and PBS and Showtime 285 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: that are still, if not strictly domestically focused, then very 286 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 1: regionally focused versus you know, a global platform like an 287 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: Amazon or Netflix. Well, I I I have another theory 288 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: about this, which is that I think that what happens 289 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: with new platforms like the Amazons and the Hulus and 290 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: the iTunes and Apple excuse me, is that in the 291 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: initial few years they they try various different creative models, 292 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: they look for different sort of creative um strategies, and 293 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: then they tend over time to sort of find their 294 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: own creative niche and their own creative focus. I think 295 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: within that time of experimentation, so to speak, there are 296 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: opportunities for British producers. But I think what's going to 297 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: happen over time is as the Netflix is and the 298 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: Amazons take on this really global perspective but rooted in 299 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 1: the US marketplace, I think their taste is actually become 300 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: less eclectic and more focused, and I think that they 301 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: will be less interested in the long run in the 302 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: sort of work that British producers do best. So I 303 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: think in fact the market is going to sort of 304 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: is going to um an equilibrium will will emerge that 305 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: actually um rather than rather than than that than these 306 00:19:52,840 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: platforms being multi genre and multi um and have a 307 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: whole range of programming. I think actually, funny enough, they're 308 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: going to do the reverse. And I think if you 309 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 1: think about what Jeff Besos has said about Amazon UM 310 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: and what his focus is with Amazon. I think the 311 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: fifty million dollar purchase of Lord of the Rings is 312 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: an indication that he wants very big branded series on 313 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: Amazon UM. He doesn't want some of the smallest series 314 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: and more niche programming that Amazon had explored and experimented 315 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: with before. So I suspect that that that move from 316 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: Jeff Besos will be reflected elsewhere, even though that's not 317 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: I acknowledge at the moment that's not the conventional wisdom. 318 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: But I do actually believe that's where it's going. With 319 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: so many outlets out there, so many platforms, you know, 320 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 1: it behooves everybody to have more of a specialty than 321 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: the than the big tent. Right now, that's an interesting 322 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: you know, it'll be interesting to see how those how 323 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: those develop, um, you know your company. Among the among 324 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: the productions right now are Howard's End, an adaptation of 325 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: that of the terrific Forster novel Little Women, a true classic. 326 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: King Lear doesn't need a lot of introduction, Are those um, 327 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: are those I mean obviously fantastic literary properties. Is there 328 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: a certain amount of built in recognition for the titles 329 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: that is important? To you or these are these just 330 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: projects that you really wanted to tackle. It's less to 331 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: do with the instant recognition of the title itself, and 332 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: it's more to do with having a vision of how 333 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: one's going to sell it, both to the broadcaster but 334 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,479 Speaker 1: also to the marketplace once it's made. And I think that, um, 335 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of as you say, there's a lot 336 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: of noise out there, there's a lot of UM, there's 337 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: a lot of clutter. So the ambition with every project, 338 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: at least for Playground, is to somehow break through that 339 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,719 Speaker 1: clutter and to find a way of actually um like 340 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 1: a laser sort of sort of cutting through the dog 341 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: and getting through the other side. And so there's no 342 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: question that having a known title UM as part of 343 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 1: the mix is uh. It is one element. It's not 344 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: the only element. I mean clearly in the case of 345 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: How Its End, one way of cutting through the clutter 346 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: that we did with How Its End was getting Clinton 347 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: Arlington UM getting a writer of his stature. We were 348 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: particularly lucky, of course, this was we actually commissioned Ken 349 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: before Manchester by the Sea, so UM we little did 350 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: we know at the time that we would end up 351 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: having having the series written by an Oscar and Oscar 352 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: winning writer. It was a very nice thing to happen 353 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: along the way. UM But um so I think understanding 354 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: how uh how a show, how we will sell a 355 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: show and presented to the marketplace is central to the 356 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: initial thinking and it's part of the Playground brand. Frankly, 357 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: we have decided that we were going to um focus 358 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: on one sector of the scriptured business, which was the 359 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 1: top end event um high high end, high quality end 360 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: of the market. UM. Up to now, most of our 361 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: work has been mini series. UM. We're about to launch 362 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: shortly and announced a couple of returning series that will 363 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: be that we're that we've been commissioned to make. And 364 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: UM but I think that uh, this is this is 365 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: an area that I think Playground us very that this 366 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: is the area that we're focused on. And I think 367 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: and I think it's the area that we can It's 368 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: the part, it's the type of drama that we we 369 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: can do best. Um. Not everything that we're doing is historical. 370 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: We've we've started shooting this week with something called chi America, 371 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: which is for Channel four in England, which is a 372 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 1: drama about an American photojournalist in China and UM uh 373 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 1: that that that that was based on a play actually 374 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: by Lucy Kirkwood and that's a sort of contemporary thriller. UM. 375 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: But again it's the way we put it together with 376 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: the creative team, with the casting and UM the material itself, 377 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: it lends itself to being something that would be written about, 378 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: not just on the entertainment pages, but off the entertainment 379 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: pages also. That's a lot of that's that's a goal 380 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: right now with so much out there, anything that can elevate. 381 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 1: I hear that from a lot of executives. UM for 382 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 1: SHI America, is that something that you're shopping for a 383 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: US partner? Well? Interesting in each America is an unusual situation. 384 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: SHI America is a co production with Playground with with 385 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: Channel four in England and a company called All Three 386 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: Media UM and All three Media deficit finance the show 387 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 1: both at an equity level and as part of a 388 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: with with the minimum guarantee against distribution. So actually all 389 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: three Media have the international rights, including the American rights. 390 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,239 Speaker 1: So in this instance there isn't an there isn't an 391 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: American platform for cost cable company UM involved at the outset. 392 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: I know, I know they're having conversations, but we funded 393 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: it without that being in place. Interesting when you when 394 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 1: you think back to the days of Nicholas Nickleby and 395 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: you know your initiative to bring on mobile oil and 396 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: to get to get that kind of sponsorship, that sounds 397 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: like a very entrepreneurial approach for that time in British 398 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 1: production when you think of so obviously you were you 399 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: were thinking big even from the get go. When you 400 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: think back though to those days compared to now in 401 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: terms of the opportunity, the ability to monetize, the ability 402 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: to distribute your shows around the world, it must be 403 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: kind of a night and day contract is night and day. 404 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: But just going back to what you said about the 405 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: Mobile situation, it was doubly innovative because what Mobile did 406 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 1: it didn't go out. Mobile at the time was the 407 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: sole sponsor of Masterpiece Theater on PBS. But my but 408 00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: Mobile didn't put didn't uh air Nicholas a copy on PBS. 409 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: They put together a loose group of ninety percent of 410 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: independent stations around the country and created an ad hoc 411 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: network for the four nights that the show went out, 412 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: and that that's this was three. I think it was 413 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: so back then. This was before Fox UM, this was 414 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:28,919 Speaker 1: before cable, basic cable had exploded, and so this was 415 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: this was that that was a very bold move on 416 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: their part. It went out here on UM it w 417 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: n W New York I think it was, and it 418 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: was kat l A and in Los Angeles it wasn't. 419 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: It wasn't the PBS stations. It with the independent stations. 420 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: So has it changed, It's changed dramatically. I think that 421 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: uh the size that the big change for British producers 422 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: in particular came with Dwanton Abbey. And it wasn't that 423 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: Downton Abbey. The phenomenon of Danton Abbey wasn't that the 424 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: show as good as the show was and is it was, 425 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: it was a great show. It wasn't that it was 426 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: the best British drama to have come out of England 427 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: ever and therefore it became more successful. It wasn't that 428 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: at all, because there had been lots of wonderful British 429 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: dramas before it. My own Nicholas Nick would be upstairs 430 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: downstairs dueling the crown and so on. But what that 431 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,719 Speaker 1: what distinguished Downtown Abbey was it was the first British 432 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,239 Speaker 1: drama on PBS to ride to catch and ride the 433 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: tsunami of s V O D. Because what happened was 434 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: with that show, episodes were available on iTunes or on 435 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: Netflix or uh Amazon within minutes of it actually being 436 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,679 Speaker 1: on PPS. Normally, what would have happened on PBS is 437 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: for a British show, is it would have played on 438 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: a Sunday night at nine o'clock. It would have played 439 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: over the season and then maybe six nine months later 440 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: you might have been able to get the box sets right, 441 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: they'd tell you a video right. So now with with 442 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: Downton Abbey, suddenly a whole universe across the country had 443 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: access to this show in a way that never before, 444 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: which is why it became such a water cooler uh title, 445 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: because because many, many, many more people had access to 446 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: it while it was going on on PBS, and that 447 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: that was a big change, and I felt that that 448 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: created an enormous opportunity for British producers and um, you know, 449 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: it's to a large extent, my own career has been 450 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: characterized by me me sort of sort of zelig like 451 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: being at the right time, right place, at the right time. 452 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: I was first, the first in the Channel four, Um 453 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: with the first independent production out of the UK. I 454 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: got to HBO just before it became the phenomenon it was, 455 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: and we rode the wave of hbos and the impact 456 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: BO had on the marketplace, and I created Playground just 457 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: at the time when the S. E O D marketplace 458 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: was Now was the new dynamic that was changing the 459 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: marketplace UM and creating new opportunities. So I think that 460 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: part part of the fun of this for me is 461 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: constantly trying to reinvent and discover the new models. I mean, 462 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: in the case of King Lear, we have a six 463 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: film deal with with Amazon for King Lear UM and 464 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: Lear is the first of the six and there are 465 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: going to be Shakespeare and no, no, no, they're going 466 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: to be English, They're going to be English dramas. In fact, 467 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: what happened was we made Um well, we made something 468 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: called The Dresser with Anthony Hopkins and Ian McKellen, and 469 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: Amazon were very very keen to take The Dresser and 470 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: that would have been the first of a six part deal. 471 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: What actually happened was it the time it took to 472 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: negotiate the deal with Amazon. UM was it was taking 473 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: longer than I had because we had a particular window 474 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: with with Antie Hopkinson and McKellen and in the end 475 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: stars Um stepped in and supported the film and were 476 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: wonderful partners. Um. But the idea is to find British 477 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: plays that we can do with the BBC and Amazon 478 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: that will attract movie stars and so um, so it's 479 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: not Shakespeare, it's the fact that it's it's Antie Hopkins 480 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: and Emma Thompson directed by Richard Air. That really is 481 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: what drove king Lear project. It was great. You've got 482 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson and king Lear while doing 483 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: also doing a remakeup of Howard's You Are the This 484 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: is why I'm such a fan of yours. You're the 485 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: first person to clock that or to mention that it's 486 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: doubly interesting because Haley Outwall m her mentor is Emma 487 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: Thompson world. So it's a very small world. So um yeah, 488 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: but yes, that was funny. That's good. Let's talk about 489 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: the business of stage you obviously, Harry Potter and the 490 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: Christ and Child incredible record breaking run on the West 491 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: End just opened on Broadway. Not gonna worry about that 492 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: one making, you know, recouping its costs. But outside of 493 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: something like a Harry Potter. Can you make money on stage? 494 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: Can you make money producing plays? Um? The first player 495 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: I produced was, as I said, Lucky Guy with Tom Hanks, 496 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,959 Speaker 1: directed by George Wolfe, written by Nora Efron and Roy Furman, 497 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: who's a theater producer and investor. He has told me 498 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: from the beginning that that's that completely spoiled me because 499 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: because that did make a lot of money. And at 500 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: the time it was now four years ago. UM, at 501 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: that point we were the highest grossing play in the 502 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: history of Broadway. We had the highest weekly gross of 503 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: any play ever on Broadway. UM. Yes, I think there 504 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:03,959 Speaker 1: is uh, if you're smart art and and sophisticated in 505 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: the in the putting together of the material and the 506 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: right creative talent. That said, it is a very very 507 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: tough time right now for straight players on Broadway, very 508 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: tough time. I think there are only five or six 509 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: new players on Broadway this year. Um. And whereas in 510 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: London that the marketplace is much more compatible with or 511 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: much easier for a new play. I think some of 512 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: the players that have done well over here, if you 513 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: take Curious Incident for example, I don't think that play 514 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: could ever have opened as an original play on Broadway 515 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: in the way it did in the UK. And that's 516 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: partly because of the National Theater and the Royal Shapes 517 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: Bake Company and the way in which British theater companies 518 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: have sort of government funding which allows them to take 519 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: certain sort of creative risks that is harder for the 520 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: the Broadway to do. But and the other thing is 521 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: that the costs are very different. You know, a play, 522 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: a play in London that would cost food pounds to mount, 523 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: would cost four million pounds to mount on Broadway. The 524 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: cost cost differentials are extraordinary. And is that mostly labor 525 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: in town costs? Yeah, it's different. Um, Harry Potter and 526 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: the Cursed Child has, you know, set records for budget 527 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: and expectation. I would imagine it was daunting to when 528 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: you sat down to really think about how are we 529 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: going to translate this incredible franchise that means so much 530 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: to so many kids, including my seventeen year old son, 531 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: to translate that to it to an equally dazzling stage experience. 532 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: Two things, firstly, I got to correct this number. There's 533 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: a number out there of sixty eight million that people 534 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: are saying is what Harry cost to produce not okay, 535 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: we're getting it on record here as um, that number 536 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: included it, um and I don't even know what the 537 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: final number was rolled into it. That the amount of 538 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,439 Speaker 1: money that a t G. The Ambassador Theater Group, spent 539 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: on renovating the theater, that was completely that was a 540 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: completely separate capital card, had nothing to do with the 541 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: capitalization of the play. So the cost of the managing 542 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: the play was was nowhere close to that. Can you 543 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: give us well, I mean, you know it's own public 544 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: records already is less so um. So that's the first thing. 545 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: The second thing is that, UM, my partner on Harry 546 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: Potter Sonia Friedman, the two of us started from a 547 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: very simple place. We were interested in exploring, how does 548 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: a kid who's grown up for eleven years living under 549 00:34:53,760 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: the stairs alone with who's an orphan, um, who doesn't 550 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 1: know what happened to his parents, who's living with really 551 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: sort of mean spirited arnt an uncle. Um, how did 552 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 1: he grow up to that to be an adult? And 553 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 1: and above that, even more than that, how does he 554 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: how does he become a father? He hasn't he's never 555 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: really had a father. He hasn't had a father. He 556 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: hasn't been farther he did. He the notion of having 557 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 1: parents was and was something he never experienced. The final 558 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: chapter of the seventh book, it's not a chapter to 559 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 1: mean the pro The epilogue of the seventh book is 560 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: a scene with Harry and Jinny taking their middle son 561 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: two King's Cross to go to Hogwarts. So it's Harry 562 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: and Jenny as adults, as parents with with with a 563 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: middle son who is a troubled kid. That epilogue is 564 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: the opening scene of the play. And when we went 565 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: to go and see J. K. Rowling, we said, we 566 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,879 Speaker 1: think there is a play here in exploring this sort 567 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: of emotional and psychological landscape of Harry as an adult, 568 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: and in a way that maybe a book or a 569 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: film wouldn't necessarily do now, and it would need it 570 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily we set to we we we imagine because 571 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 1: you created such such a sort of fully dimensional world 572 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,800 Speaker 1: of Harry, that there are things that you know about 573 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: Harry and the characters that have actually never actually made 574 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,919 Speaker 1: it into the books or the films, things that you've 575 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: just had in your head as part of the creation 576 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: of this whole parallel universe. And it would be interesting 577 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: to explore some of those things. And one of the 578 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: joys of the play is a at the core of it, 579 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 1: it is the story of a father and a son, 580 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: and a troubled father and a son. And so as 581 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: an audience member, um, whether you're a kid, whether you 582 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: whether a teenager, or whether whether you're at thirty year 583 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: old that grew up with the books, or whether you're 584 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: a parent, um uh, you'll relate in one form or 585 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: another to those characters. But the other thing that happens 586 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: in the play that's very interesting is that characters that 587 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: you think you knew from the Seven Books or the films, 588 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: you actually begin to see in a new light you've 589 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: seen you learn more about them, um. And they open 590 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,720 Speaker 1: up to each other in the way that adults would 591 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: because they have the distance of time um in terms 592 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: of looking back at their lives um and uh. And 593 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: and so it's it's it's it was. It's been very 594 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,240 Speaker 1: interesting to explore those characters that are otherwise familiar characters 595 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: and look at the look at them in a more 596 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 1: dimensional way as adults. So it's a completely new story. 597 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 1: It's not an adaptation of an existing book. It's not 598 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 1: it's not a musical. Um, it's in two parts with 599 00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,399 Speaker 1: a cliffhanger at the end of part one. It's it's 600 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: unlike in fact, any other play that's that's been produced 601 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: of this. You know, if you think about the players 602 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: that are in two parts, most of them up to 603 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: now have been self contained parts. Angels of America, the 604 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: first play was performed a year or two before the 605 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,720 Speaker 1: second play came out. UM, going back to Nicholas Nickoby 606 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: for example, the first play was sort of self contained. 607 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: You could just see the self first play and not 608 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: you didn't have to see the second play to see 609 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,360 Speaker 1: how things resolve themselves. And we had a very interesting 610 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:30,399 Speaker 1: experience here because what happened was uh when when the play, 611 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: but when it began in previews, we were slightly worried 612 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: that maybe people who weren't fan to the book, we 613 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: didn't know the book would have would have would wouldn't 614 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:40,799 Speaker 1: be able to follow the story, and we were thinking 615 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: about having some sort of digital display in the lobby 616 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: that explained the stories and some of the characters. But 617 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: then as we watched the audience we were watching something 618 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: really quite wonderful happened, which was that people were talking 619 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: to each other and people were asking questions of each other, 620 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: and the fans were telling the non fans or that 621 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: what they were explaining certain parts of the story. And 622 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: because the audience was staying with each other for the 623 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: whole day and for part one and part two, you're 624 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,240 Speaker 1: sitting in the same seat, so you have the same neighbors, 625 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: people began to talk to each other and know each other, 626 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: and suddenly there was this extraordinary um dialogue going on 627 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 1: within the audience between people all of different ages, all 628 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: with differing knowledges of Harry Potter. And it is actually 629 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: the fact that that that we've we're certainly true in 630 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: England that there are lots of people and we've seen 631 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,919 Speaker 1: this online all the time who have made fast new 632 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:42,399 Speaker 1: friends based on who they met when they saw the show. Um, 633 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 1: so we were so so what became clear was if 634 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: people didn't know what what, why were people wing and 635 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 1: are in at that particular moment of who was that character? 636 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: They would ask people around them and the fans would explain. 637 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: And so we never put up the digital screen and 638 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,359 Speaker 1: we we we just allowed that sort of that sort 639 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: of dialogue and the communal reaction to we we try 640 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: to foster it an old fashioned interactive experience, an old 641 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 1: fashion throughout experience. Collin Calendar, thank you so much for 642 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: your time. It's been really interesting talking with you and 643 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: hear and getting a visibility into into the the market 644 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: for British productions and also for for playground. That's a pleasure. 645 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thanks for listening. Be sure to 646 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: join us next week for another episode of Strictly Business.