WEBVTT - Eric Fanning Says Combat a Last Resort 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:05.840 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to. Here's the thing, 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:10.560 My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:15.080 hear their stories. What inspires their creations, what decisions change 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:20.239 their careers, what relationships influenced their work. My guest today 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.240 is the Secretary of the U. S Army, Eric Fanning. 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.840 He is the first openly gay leader of the armed forces. 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:29.720 Fanning's job is like a real life game of risk. 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:34.159 When Russia or North Korea flexes its muscles, Secretary Fanning 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.800 make sure US troops are ready to move to conflict borders. 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:40.760 He's the guy whose job it is to ensure that 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.280 those same soldiers have the tank's body armor and weapons 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:47.640 they need when they hit the ground in Afghanistan or Iraq. 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:50.920 I describe it as being the CEO of a business unit. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.720 My job is to build the army, essentially recruit, train 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:56.520 and equip uh and then turn it over to the 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:58.880 war fighting generals who were poured up through the commander 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.760 in chief the president. When were you appointed this position? 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.679 In my home, I was appointed the position by President Obama. 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:08.960 It was a very convoluted path. I've had nine titles 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.759 in the in this administration, all in the Pentagon. Nine 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.960 different positions that I moved through, including at one point 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:18.200 acting Secretary of the Air Force. I was in the 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:22.040 Navy Department as Deputy under secretary before Obama. In Obama 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:25.560 Obama's elected in November of two thousand eight, and you 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:27.679 come and you start working with at April and two 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.039 thousand n the spring of two thousand you start, yes, 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:33.040 I need that multiple multiple positions yet. And I worked 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.160 in the Bill Clinton Pentagon as well. That's that's almost 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:38.680 where I started. What was your relationship to the military 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.920 before the Clinton and Obama appointments. I worked on the 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:45.440 House arm Services Committee for Chairman Less Aspen, who became 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.280 Bill Clinton's first Defense secretary. You're on Aspen staff, Aspen 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.279 staff when you worked under Obama, What were the multiple 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.440 deployments that he gave you. Well, I started as a 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.880 special assistant to Secretary Gates, essentially working transition, went to 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:02.160 Deputy under Secretary and Navy Under Secretary of the Air Force, 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:04.640 Acting Secretary of the Air Force, Chief of Staff to 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:07.600 Secretary of Defense Carter. Then they moved me over to 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.760 the Army as acting under Secretary, then acting Secretary, then 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:12.519 I had to go back to Carter's office during the 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:16.040 confirmation process, then was confirmed and appointed in May. And 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:20.519 what what's been your motivating force? I mean, were you 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:23.040 Did you come from a military family. I did come 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:25.079 from a military family. Have two uncles that went to 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:28.160 West Point where career Army. My father grew up his family, 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.960 the Fanning families, right from from Cormall, New York, right 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:34.640 outside of West Point, so it was a big part 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:36.880 of the family. Have another uncle who was career Air Force. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:40.400 But with the prohibition on gays and lesbians serving, I 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.560 wasn't allowed to serve. So going in the uniform side 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:45.640 was not an option for me. We were not for 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.200 that prohibition. Would you have gone? My my uncle's were 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:51.320 lobbying hard for me to go to a military academy, 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:55.120 um following their footsteps, but it just wasn't an option. 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:57.960 Didn't really entertained it very much. Well, I wasn't. I 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:00.160 wasn't out when I was in high school thinking about 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.960 these things, but but it just wasn't an option for me. 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:06.320 And so I I knew at a certain point in 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.639 college that I wanted to come to Washington and work 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:10.560 in government, and I wanted to start on the Hill 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:12.480 and I got a great job in the airm Services Committee. 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:17.160 How would you say your experience of being a gay 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.560 man who wanted to serve in the military and concluded 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:24.160 that that was not possible and you didn't even bother 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:28.040 How did that influence your feelings about that in the military? 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:32.240 I meaning when that changed? Was it just for you? 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:35.400 I was in the Pentagon on the first day of 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.840 the Clinton administration. Don't I Stonetell didn't exist. It was 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.280 created that first year of the Clinton administration, and it 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.160 was it was crea It was a difficult thing to 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:45.040 be a part of. I was. I was a very 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.480 I think twenty four years old and working in Aspen's 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:49.360 front office, and so I was exposed to a lot 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:51.480 of the conversations that were taking place, and I ended 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:54.840 up leaving um government eventually Washington. I moved up to 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.080 New York City because I didn't think there was a 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.839 place for me in that world. Once I don't ask, 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.960 don't don't don't tell. It didn't apply to civilians, but 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.839 but it still reflects what was the culture at the time. 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:08.920 You came to New York to do what I worked 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:10.960 for CBS News for a while, actually did a number 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:12.440 of things that work for CBS News for a while, 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.680 but but I missed it. I uh, And then what happened, Well, 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.000 I ended up going back to Washington and working for 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.680 a think tank, and kind of coincidentally, in fun for me, 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.160 one of my oldest friends in Washington, who I met 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:25.640 on the Armed Services Committee, was at this think tank 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.279 said come here, there's an opening. She's now the Secretary 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:30.359 of the Air Force. UM so the two of us 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.280 being service secretaries together as a fun time. But I 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:35.120 found my way back out into the Obama administration. Don't Ask, 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:37.920 Don't Tell still existed, and it was I was conflicted 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.160 about going back to a building that had that discriminated 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.880 And but did you feel that discrimination? Well, I didn't 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:48.880 necessarily because I was on the civilian side, and I think, uh, 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:50.960 there were there were lots of people trying to send 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.800 signs that they thought it was a time for a change, 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:56.480 and the president had campaigned very strongly and repealing don't Ask, 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.680 don't Tell. It was it was difficult to get there, 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.040 and it almost didn't happen. It happened. It was one 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.000 of the very last things that he did before the 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.560 first mid terms, and it was. It was an exciting 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:09.240 thing to be a part of. You know, you interact 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:13.279 with uniform military people all the time, and during your career, 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:14.839 did you get a sense that some of them were 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:19.000 less than warm towards you because you represented this the 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:23.320 new military and you represented the inclusive military. I think 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:27.240 always hasn't always been polite. Well, they're always going to 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:29.120 be a polite to me, especially in the current job, 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:34.520 since you know the uniform. I think first of all, culturally, 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:36.760 things have changed so much since the start of the 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:40.039 Clinton administration. And what I've learned over and over and 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.520 over again is you can't make decisions. You live your 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.640 life and fear of of the people who have negative 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:51.000 views on that because they are um they're outnumbered by 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:54.600 those who are supportive of the change. And each time 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:56.919 that I got a new job and got some attention, 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.960 and you know it was labeled the gay guy, more 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.680 are more people would find ways to to show their 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.640 support of me personally and the things we were working on. 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.159 Describe exactly what is your job, what are you charged 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:15.560 with doing? The service secretaries are CEOs of business units. 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.560 The army budget when you include the war supplemental budgets 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.240 is over a hundred forty billion dollars a year. There's 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:23.920 about one point one million people in uniform, a quarter 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:27.480 of a million civilians, all a part of this apparatus. 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:30.560 And my job is to oversee the creation of of 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:32.600 the army, to make sure we're recruiting the right people, 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.680 make sure we're training them properly, keeping them ready, and 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.880 then keeping them equipped, and then taking care of their welfare, 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.120 morale and that. Do you rely on to tell you 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.480 that they're properly equipped. It's an enormous organization. There are 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.520 lots of people that helped me with those things, and 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:50.320 my uniform uniform people lay on uniform people to tell 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:52.200 you what's going on and what's not going on. Well, 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.040 it's a mix I look for, you know, certainly the 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.080 Chief of Staff of the Army, the senior General in 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.840 the Army, whose office is our office is separate by 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:05.080 a door um uh is the one I'm most closely 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:10.160 listening to. But I've got career civilians, I've got contractors, 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.400 I've got all sorts of people that can help me 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.600 assess the health of the force. And the contractors are 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.080 do they have offices all lined up around the pending 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:20.800 on Is there like a little contractors village there. It's 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.600 not a village, but they are. They have a presence there. 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:25.760 There is an army of contractors helping. They are there 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:28.800 in Virginia. But I asked that because you know, listen, 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.240 there are so many you know, I think fair and 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.800 some loaded questions that people always have for people in 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:39.840 the military. Americans tend to feel that the United States 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:44.160 military costs us too much money per uh the percentage 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.640 of our gross national product. Do you have any opinion 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:48.640 about that? Yeah, we do spend a lot of money 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.040 on on the military. Uh. And I get asked all 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.160 of the time, why do we spend as much as 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.920 an x x number of countries combined. We're asked to 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.480 do a lot more. We are adversaries. Only have to 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:01.600 keep us from pet They don't have to jam us, 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:03.400 They only have to block us. We have to penetrate. 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:05.560 We have to do it everywhere in the world, and 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.920 we have to do it decisively. No other country does that. Um. 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.560 The Russians are a European adversary. The Chinese are, but 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:15.200 they're not global powers. Um. We are. And if we're 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.680 asked to do that, it's going to cost money. Do 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:19.560 you think we can still afford to be a global 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:21.560 power in the coming years. I think we can, but 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:23.840 I think we need to think more creatively about it 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.000 as present Obama has been trying to do. There are 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:29.640 such as to what we can spend and and recognizing 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:32.960 as he does, that national security is more than just 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.680 the military. Uh, it's it's a whole combination of things 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:38.960 across the entire federal budget budget. There has to be 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:43.400 some balance there. But in regards to this military power 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:48.000 secret of military power, the military does what's asked of it. Uh. 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.280 They don't go and kill Kadafi unless the civilian leadership 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.360 tells them to do that. Um. I you know the 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:56.880 people being confused at the Secretary of the Army is 0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:00.000 a civilian, not a military leader. Uh, not a uniform 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.040 military leader. The secretary offense is civilian. In the commander 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:04.960 in chief of the entire United States is the president 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.920 who's elected by the people, and so it's that civilian 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:11.880 apparatus that tells the military what the strategic goals are 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:14.160 and the military figures out how to the military the 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.600 uniform military that's not the civilian side of it that 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:20.280 you're talking about. I'm sure, there's a tremendous amount of 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:23.720 pushback from them about what they're telling you they need. 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.440 And I'm sure there's a lot of lobbying going on 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:31.440 from manufacturers and from providers about telling them what they need. 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:33.439 And then their attitude is, let's air on the side 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.079 of caution and build something that we may or may 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.880 not need at a cost of hundreds of millions or 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.959 billions of dollars for some system. Does that happen? Certainly? 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.480 There are all sorts of forces lobbying on what we 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.640 should spend and how much we should spend. The defense 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:54.040 industrial complex, um, other lobbyists, the uniform military them, the 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:58.800 civilian overseers, Congress, all sorts of different opinions on Congress. 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:01.320 So it's it's a it's in an enormous elaborate process 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.800 to put a budget together because there are so many voices. 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:05.520 Have you ever do it? But have you ever been 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.560 in a moment with a uniformed uh A senior you know, 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.880 official general or whatever that were their ranks, and told them, no, 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:16.560 you can't have that. Well, it doesn't quite work that way. Well, 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:20.240 it's a very collaborative process. The budget process never ends. 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:22.920 I mean, and you know, we're we're living in one 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:26.480 budget year. We're um working with Congress to get approval 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:28.640 for the next budget year. You know, we're in a 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:30.720 budget year without a budget right now, which has been 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:34.120 happening every year since this administration started, and we're planning 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:36.720 the next budget cycle, getting ready to submit it. So 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.640 you're this this is constant, ongoing process of building the budget. 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:41.800 You have a sense of what your top line is, 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.680 how much money you have, you know what strategic guidance 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:47.280 you've been given, and it's just a matter of balancing risk. 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.200 You could never spend enough money to buy risk down 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.680 to zero, and so that's really what the process is. 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.680 Where do you place your bets on risk um to 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:57.560 make sure that you're ready for whatever you asked to 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.920 do today. Well, I've always felt that, and this is 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:05.079 a very oversimplified view. In under normal circumstances, let it go. 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.000 Let alone in the presence of someone like yourself, with 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:09.000 all the inside information you have. But I've always been 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:11.920 of the belief of let's give every member of the 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.000 military a thousand dollar a month raise. That's twelve thousand 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.200 dollars times over a million people. So you're talking about 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.680 roughly fifteen billion dollars, which is spitting the ocean to 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.480 this government. And I've always been told that people in 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:25.439 the military, who are the ones that make these decisions, 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:27.440 and say, oh God, now, if we're gonna spend fifteen 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:28.920 billion dollars, we don't want to give it to a 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.280 bunch of soldiers who are going to buy charcoal, briquettes 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:33.840 and diapers and beer with that. We need that to 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:35.679 be spent on a weapon system that's going to move 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:39.040 the dow. American knows they're gonna buy stuff, and we 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.280 and we spend that money in a certain way to 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.000 manipulate the United States economy. Do you believe that happens 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.440 not in depending on We do think about our industry. 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:52.319 But you know, some sometimes when when you're spending gets low, 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:56.280 and and we've cut our procurement budget pretty substantially over 0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:00.160 a third in the of this administration, and salary is 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.040 in the broad sense for just the uniform soldiers, not 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.280 the civilians, is almost half of the army budget as 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:08.640 it is. We don't think about the impact our spending 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:13.160 has an economy. Now elected officials do. Uh, certainly the 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:17.080 economy does. But we're thinking that our responsibility is not 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.920 just to make sure soldiers are well compensated, but it 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:22.760 is that they have the gear and the training they 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:26.199 need to to come home after whatever we asked them 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.000 to do so that they're as safe as possible in 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.840 completing the mission. So how much does recruitment fall under 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:35.240 your purview? Are you involved in recruitment? Recruitment? Yes, Rerument 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.760 and how and how would you describe the recruitment process now? Well, 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:42.480 it's it's US fighting forces are signing up heavily. Where 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.040 what's there? What's their socioeconomic background? People who are going 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:50.400 into the different branches. Is something that UM that I 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:52.520 spent some time on and many others did as well, 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:56.079 including Secretary car to the current Secretary Defense. Because we do. 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.160 We're forty plus years into an all volunteer force. We 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.719 have the most fashional lethal military we've ever had. It's 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.040 a very successful UM all volunteer force, but it is 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.480 creating a growing divide between those who serve and the 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.160 rest of society, which seems to be one On social media, 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:14.480 I see some tremendous antagonism by people who say, you know, 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.040 if you don't support the troops, and people who feel 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.559 very isolated in the military community because they feel that 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.640 people don't understand their sacrifices. Well, I think that's true. 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:26.719 I don't like the notion that if you aren't supporting 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.400 certain wars or certain activities, are not supporting the troops, 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:31.640 you can support the troops without agreeing with how they're 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:35.600 being deployed. But I do believe it's true that the 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:37.880 you know, less than one percent of the country is 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.600 serving at any given time, and it's the majority of 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.520 the country that and it is to your earlier question, 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.280 it is geographic. You know, we recruit sort of through 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.319 the far Midwest down and then across the south, and 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.440 and there are large parts of the countries where we're 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.800 not successful at recruiting. Well, what do you think can 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:57.920 be done to change that? Or can anything be done 0:13:57.960 --> 0:13:59.640 to change that? I do think things can be done. 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.320 We we um you know, recruiters will go where there's 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:05.680 where they are is success at getting recruits, and so 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:07.839 they come hand in certain parts of the country or 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.480 or minimizing, not abandoning it. I wouldn't say that they're 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:13.160 pulling back from those parts of the country. They're just 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:16.000 focusing on where they know there's a culture and that 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.120 we've been successful Kareem before and we need to make 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:20.760 an effort to reach out to other communities and to 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.960 go to other schools for RTC programs than than we're 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.480 currently doing, to make sure we're going across the entire country. 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.240 So a man or a woman is sitting down in 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.120 front of a recruiting officer in the modern Army and 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:34.200 they fill out some paperwork, they fill out some forms, 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.400 and they literally sign up and join the army. And 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:39.680 in the modern Army, for people who don't know what happens, 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:41.960 then where do they go? Everyone goes to basic training 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.720 UH and the Army is the basic training is the same, 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.160 basically training everybody who enters the everybody who entered. How 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:50.200 many how many training bases are there in the US 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.760 right now? It's hard to say because we are doing 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:58.160 training everywhere. Initial installation training UM for all the services 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.000 is done differently. We have for the Army, Yeah, the 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.240 Army Fort Jackson UH in South Carolina where we do 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.400 most of our initial training. And how many people are 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:09.680 coming through there a month, I don't know. The monthly 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.080 figures we assess for the active component about sixty people 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:16.479 a year, many of them make the cut and stay 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:19.760 most of some of them do most of them, most 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:21.720 of them stay. We need do a little bit better 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:25.000 job of making sure that we can capt catch those 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:28.560 people a little bit earlier. Um, because you don't want 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.360 someone to go through twelve weeks of training and then leave. 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:34.400 It's not very efficient for us. From there. Then, depending 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.000 on what what branch they're going to go into or 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:38.920 what they're going to do in the army, there's follow 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:40.680 on training. You see what branch meaning they can sign 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:42.520 up for the army and wind up being sent elsewhere. 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:43.880 Well no, no no, no, they sign up for the army, 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.360 I mean branch like infantry, armor or two branch of 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:51.400 the army. And after they do that, uh, you evaluate 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.120 their expertise and what you know. Some people have more 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.960 advanced skills than others and they go into different operations. Correct. 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.320 We do the one thing it's it's uh pretty unique 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.880 to the Army that when you sign up a recruiting station, 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.040 we're going to determine what you're gonna do. I mean, 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.680 we have we know what openings we have, we know 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:09.560 what needs we have in the army. We're gonna line 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.040 you up to that. So when soldiers are going through 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.760 basic training, they know and all likelihood what they're going 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:16.000 to be doing when they when they get out of 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.600 basic training. So the ones who go into basic training, 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.360 is is it explained to them when they sign on, 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:23.640 because I've always been intrigued by this, is explained to 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.960 them when they sign on that everyone would be eligible 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.000 to be in combat and fight. Or are they told 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.280 when they sign on you don't necessarily have to go 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.280 into combat if you want to. If you tell us 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:36.640 you don't want to go and get shot at and 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.440 maybe die somewhere, we can put you here. Are they 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.440 given that option or no, Well, if if you wear 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:46.720 the uniform, you could be deployed. But certain choices beyond 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:50.040 basic training are going to increase or decrease the likelihood 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:51.760 that you are actually going to deploy or are going 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.800 to go into combat. And some people choose things that 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.560 will keep them away from that. Others volunteer to go 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:00.440 into combat. So the right Okay, So now we're down 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.480 to the men and women who go to combat or 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:07.120 want to go over there to these extraordinarily surreal environments 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.240 in the Middle East and Afghanistan and Iraq and so forth, 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:12.679 that we that we only see depicted in movies or 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.800 we see it in some footage that's embedded footage. You're 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.240 gonna have you and how would you describe the people 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.560 that want to go into combat today? Well, first of all, 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.840 most of them, it is incredible bravery and it is 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.919 an incredible sacrifice and commitment. Every day I do this 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:29.960 and I've been doing it now for twenty five years. 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:34.000 Um Uh, this line of work. I'm more amazed at 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.640 what we ask our soldiers to do and what they 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.720 do and the impact it has on their families, on 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:43.639 the entire rest of their lives. And so it is 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:46.159 a pretty remarkable thing that people sign up to do. 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.720 Um At some point, I would imagine the military sits 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.280 down and they have you know when in the medical profession, 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.160 I learned this one. I did some research to play 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.880 a doctor in a film. We sat down and talked 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:01.480 about the eminem that they you after the operation, when 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:03.919 the patient or the procedure, when the person dies, the 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.280 mortality and morbidity conference, and they talk about why the 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:09.680 person died and what they learned from that person dying. 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.439 And I'm wondering, what is the eminem equivalent for the 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.159 military in terms of not just a war itself, not 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:18.880 just to region itself, but even specific battles you fight 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:21.520 and your and and decisions are made to send people here, 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.400 and many many people die, of course, many of them 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.800 innocent civilians, women and children in that area. And I'm wondering, 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.160 what's that function like for you or anybody under your wing? 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.280 How do we minimize that? I think we have And 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.600 if you just look at this the last fifteen years 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:41.359 of this war compared to what happened in Vietnam. As 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.800 a country, we won't tolerate those types of losses anymore. 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:48.160 And it factors into the calculus of the decision makers 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:50.919 when they're deciding what to do, how to deploy, how 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:54.000 to utilize the force that they've got. Any time something 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.240 goes wrong, there is an assessment of it. Um. Any 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.720 time civilians are killed, any time a soldier is killed, 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.280 we are constantly assessing, um, what happened, what we could 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.600 turn from it internally well oftentimes externally to the press 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:10.719 is very involved, was exactly? There were conclusions, and then 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.080 we make adjustments going forward. War is a terrible thing, right, 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.199 There's just no question about it. For our soldiers, for 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.080 civilians where we're fighting but we have done enormous things 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:23.160 I think to to minimize especially civilian deaths. That factors 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:26.560 into any time there's any risk to civilians. And and 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.399 remember we're not fighting just in deserts. Were fighting in 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:33.120 urban environments as well, and the adversaries I saw others 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.800 are very crafty about being able to hide and blend 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:38.880 in any time there's a risk, it goes very high. 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:40.840 The chain of command. Decisions that were made in the 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:44.480 field in previous wars are made in Washington now based 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.720 on that calculus of risk, and that in and of 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.560 itself creates risk for our forces not being able to 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:51.920 maybe react as quickly as I want to, but all 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:54.960