1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to. Here's the thing, 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: hear their stories. What inspires their creations, what decisions change 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: their careers, what relationships influenced their work. My guest today 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: is the Secretary of the U. S Army, Eric Fanning. 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: He is the first openly gay leader of the armed forces. 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: Fanning's job is like a real life game of risk. 8 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: When Russia or North Korea flexes its muscles, Secretary Fanning 9 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: make sure US troops are ready to move to conflict borders. 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: He's the guy whose job it is to ensure that 11 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: those same soldiers have the tank's body armor and weapons 12 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: they need when they hit the ground in Afghanistan or Iraq. 13 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: I describe it as being the CEO of a business unit. 14 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: My job is to build the army, essentially recruit, train 15 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: and equip uh and then turn it over to the 16 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: war fighting generals who were poured up through the commander 17 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: in chief the president. When were you appointed this position? 18 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: In my home, I was appointed the position by President Obama. 19 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: It was a very convoluted path. I've had nine titles 20 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: in the in this administration, all in the Pentagon. Nine 21 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: different positions that I moved through, including at one point 22 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: acting Secretary of the Air Force. I was in the 23 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: Navy Department as Deputy under secretary before Obama. In Obama 24 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: Obama's elected in November of two thousand eight, and you 25 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: come and you start working with at April and two 26 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: thousand n the spring of two thousand you start, yes, 27 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: I need that multiple multiple positions yet. And I worked 28 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: in the Bill Clinton Pentagon as well. That's that's almost 29 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: where I started. What was your relationship to the military 30 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: before the Clinton and Obama appointments. I worked on the 31 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: House arm Services Committee for Chairman Less Aspen, who became 32 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton's first Defense secretary. You're on Aspen staff, Aspen 33 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,279 Speaker 1: staff when you worked under Obama, What were the multiple 34 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: deployments that he gave you. Well, I started as a 35 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: special assistant to Secretary Gates, essentially working transition, went to 36 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: Deputy under Secretary and Navy Under Secretary of the Air Force, 37 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: Acting Secretary of the Air Force, Chief of Staff to 38 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: Secretary of Defense Carter. Then they moved me over to 39 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: the Army as acting under Secretary, then acting Secretary, then 40 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 1: I had to go back to Carter's office during the 41 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: confirmation process, then was confirmed and appointed in May. And 42 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: what what's been your motivating force? I mean, were you 43 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: Did you come from a military family. I did come 44 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: from a military family. Have two uncles that went to 45 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: West Point where career Army. My father grew up his family, 46 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: the Fanning families, right from from Cormall, New York, right 47 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: outside of West Point, so it was a big part 48 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: of the family. Have another uncle who was career Air Force. 49 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: But with the prohibition on gays and lesbians serving, I 50 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to serve. So going in the uniform side 51 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: was not an option for me. We were not for 52 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: that prohibition. Would you have gone? My my uncle's were 53 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: lobbying hard for me to go to a military academy, 54 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: um following their footsteps, but it just wasn't an option. 55 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: Didn't really entertained it very much. Well, I wasn't. I 56 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: wasn't out when I was in high school thinking about 57 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: these things, but but it just wasn't an option for me. 58 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: And so I I knew at a certain point in 59 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: college that I wanted to come to Washington and work 60 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: in government, and I wanted to start on the Hill 61 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: and I got a great job in the airm Services Committee. 62 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: How would you say your experience of being a gay 63 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: man who wanted to serve in the military and concluded 64 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: that that was not possible and you didn't even bother 65 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: How did that influence your feelings about that in the military? 66 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: I meaning when that changed? Was it just for you? 67 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: I was in the Pentagon on the first day of 68 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: the Clinton administration. Don't I Stonetell didn't exist. It was 69 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: created that first year of the Clinton administration, and it 70 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: was it was crea It was a difficult thing to 71 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: be a part of. I was. I was a very 72 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: I think twenty four years old and working in Aspen's 73 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: front office, and so I was exposed to a lot 74 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: of the conversations that were taking place, and I ended 75 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: up leaving um government eventually Washington. I moved up to 76 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: New York City because I didn't think there was a 77 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,839 Speaker 1: place for me in that world. Once I don't ask, 78 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: don't don't don't tell. It didn't apply to civilians, but 79 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,839 Speaker 1: but it still reflects what was the culture at the time. 80 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: You came to New York to do what I worked 81 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: for CBS News for a while, actually did a number 82 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: of things that work for CBS News for a while, 83 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: but but I missed it. I uh, And then what happened, Well, 84 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: I ended up going back to Washington and working for 85 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: a think tank, and kind of coincidentally, in fun for me, 86 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: one of my oldest friends in Washington, who I met 87 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: on the Armed Services Committee, was at this think tank 88 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: said come here, there's an opening. She's now the Secretary 89 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: of the Air Force. UM so the two of us 90 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: being service secretaries together as a fun time. But I 91 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: found my way back out into the Obama administration. Don't Ask, 92 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: Don't Tell still existed, and it was I was conflicted 93 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: about going back to a building that had that discriminated 94 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: And but did you feel that discrimination? Well, I didn't 95 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: necessarily because I was on the civilian side, and I think, uh, 96 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: there were there were lots of people trying to send 97 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: signs that they thought it was a time for a change, 98 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: and the president had campaigned very strongly and repealing don't Ask, 99 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: don't Tell. It was it was difficult to get there, 100 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: and it almost didn't happen. It happened. It was one 101 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: of the very last things that he did before the 102 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: first mid terms, and it was. It was an exciting 103 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: thing to be a part of. You know, you interact 104 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: with uniform military people all the time, and during your career, 105 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: did you get a sense that some of them were 106 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: less than warm towards you because you represented this the 107 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: new military and you represented the inclusive military. I think 108 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: always hasn't always been polite. Well, they're always going to 109 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: be a polite to me, especially in the current job, 110 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: since you know the uniform. I think first of all, culturally, 111 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: things have changed so much since the start of the 112 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 1: Clinton administration. And what I've learned over and over and 113 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: over again is you can't make decisions. You live your 114 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: life and fear of of the people who have negative 115 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: views on that because they are um they're outnumbered by 116 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: those who are supportive of the change. And each time 117 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: that I got a new job and got some attention, 118 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: and you know it was labeled the gay guy, more 119 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: are more people would find ways to to show their 120 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: support of me personally and the things we were working on. 121 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 1: Describe exactly what is your job, what are you charged 122 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: with doing? The service secretaries are CEOs of business units. 123 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: The army budget when you include the war supplemental budgets 124 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: is over a hundred forty billion dollars a year. There's 125 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: about one point one million people in uniform, a quarter 126 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: of a million civilians, all a part of this apparatus. 127 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: And my job is to oversee the creation of of 128 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: the army, to make sure we're recruiting the right people, 129 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: make sure we're training them properly, keeping them ready, and 130 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: then keeping them equipped, and then taking care of their welfare, 131 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: morale and that. Do you rely on to tell you 132 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: that they're properly equipped. It's an enormous organization. There are 133 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: lots of people that helped me with those things, and 134 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: my uniform uniform people lay on uniform people to tell 135 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: you what's going on and what's not going on. Well, 136 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: it's a mix I look for, you know, certainly the 137 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: Chief of Staff of the Army, the senior General in 138 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: the Army, whose office is our office is separate by 139 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: a door um uh is the one I'm most closely 140 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: listening to. But I've got career civilians, I've got contractors, 141 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: I've got all sorts of people that can help me 142 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: assess the health of the force. And the contractors are 143 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: do they have offices all lined up around the pending 144 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: on Is there like a little contractors village there. It's 145 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: not a village, but they are. They have a presence there. 146 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: There is an army of contractors helping. They are there 147 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: in Virginia. But I asked that because you know, listen, 148 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: there are so many you know, I think fair and 149 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: some loaded questions that people always have for people in 150 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: the military. Americans tend to feel that the United States 151 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: military costs us too much money per uh the percentage 152 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: of our gross national product. Do you have any opinion 153 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: about that? Yeah, we do spend a lot of money 154 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: on on the military. Uh. And I get asked all 155 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: of the time, why do we spend as much as 156 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: an x x number of countries combined. We're asked to 157 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: do a lot more. We are adversaries. Only have to 158 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: keep us from pet They don't have to jam us, 159 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: They only have to block us. We have to penetrate. 160 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: We have to do it everywhere in the world, and 161 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: we have to do it decisively. No other country does that. Um. 162 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: The Russians are a European adversary. The Chinese are, but 163 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: they're not global powers. Um. We are. And if we're 164 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: asked to do that, it's going to cost money. Do 165 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: you think we can still afford to be a global 166 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: power in the coming years. I think we can, but 167 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: I think we need to think more creatively about it 168 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: as present Obama has been trying to do. There are 169 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: such as to what we can spend and and recognizing 170 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: as he does, that national security is more than just 171 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: the military. Uh, it's it's a whole combination of things 172 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: across the entire federal budget budget. There has to be 173 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: some balance there. But in regards to this military power 174 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: secret of military power, the military does what's asked of it. Uh. 175 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: They don't go and kill Kadafi unless the civilian leadership 176 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: tells them to do that. Um. I you know the 177 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: people being confused at the Secretary of the Army is 178 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: a civilian, not a military leader. Uh, not a uniform 179 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: military leader. The secretary offense is civilian. In the commander 180 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: in chief of the entire United States is the president 181 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: who's elected by the people, and so it's that civilian 182 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: apparatus that tells the military what the strategic goals are 183 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: and the military figures out how to the military the 184 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: uniform military that's not the civilian side of it that 185 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: you're talking about. I'm sure, there's a tremendous amount of 186 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: pushback from them about what they're telling you they need. 187 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: And I'm sure there's a lot of lobbying going on 188 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: from manufacturers and from providers about telling them what they need. 189 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: And then their attitude is, let's air on the side 190 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: of caution and build something that we may or may 191 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: not need at a cost of hundreds of millions or 192 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 1: billions of dollars for some system. Does that happen? Certainly? 193 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: There are all sorts of forces lobbying on what we 194 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: should spend and how much we should spend. The defense 195 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: industrial complex, um, other lobbyists, the uniform military them, the 196 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: civilian overseers, Congress, all sorts of different opinions on Congress. 197 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: So it's it's a it's in an enormous elaborate process 198 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: to put a budget together because there are so many voices. 199 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: Have you ever do it? But have you ever been 200 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: in a moment with a uniformed uh A senior you know, 201 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: official general or whatever that were their ranks, and told them, no, 202 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: you can't have that. Well, it doesn't quite work that way. Well, 203 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: it's a very collaborative process. The budget process never ends. 204 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: I mean, and you know, we're we're living in one 205 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: budget year. We're um working with Congress to get approval 206 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: for the next budget year. You know, we're in a 207 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: budget year without a budget right now, which has been 208 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: happening every year since this administration started, and we're planning 209 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: the next budget cycle, getting ready to submit it. So 210 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: you're this this is constant, ongoing process of building the budget. 211 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: You have a sense of what your top line is, 212 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: how much money you have, you know what strategic guidance 213 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: you've been given, and it's just a matter of balancing risk. 214 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: You could never spend enough money to buy risk down 215 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: to zero, and so that's really what the process is. 216 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: Where do you place your bets on risk um to 217 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: make sure that you're ready for whatever you asked to 218 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: do today. Well, I've always felt that, and this is 219 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: a very oversimplified view. In under normal circumstances, let it go. 220 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: Let alone in the presence of someone like yourself, with 221 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: all the inside information you have. But I've always been 222 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: of the belief of let's give every member of the 223 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: military a thousand dollar a month raise. That's twelve thousand 224 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: dollars times over a million people. So you're talking about 225 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: roughly fifteen billion dollars, which is spitting the ocean to 226 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: this government. And I've always been told that people in 227 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: the military, who are the ones that make these decisions, 228 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: and say, oh God, now, if we're gonna spend fifteen 229 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: billion dollars, we don't want to give it to a 230 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: bunch of soldiers who are going to buy charcoal, briquettes 231 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: and diapers and beer with that. We need that to 232 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: be spent on a weapon system that's going to move 233 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: the dow. American knows they're gonna buy stuff, and we 234 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: and we spend that money in a certain way to 235 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: manipulate the United States economy. Do you believe that happens 236 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: not in depending on We do think about our industry. 237 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 1: But you know, some sometimes when when you're spending gets low, 238 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: and and we've cut our procurement budget pretty substantially over 239 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: a third in the of this administration, and salary is 240 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: in the broad sense for just the uniform soldiers, not 241 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: the civilians, is almost half of the army budget as 242 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: it is. We don't think about the impact our spending 243 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: has an economy. Now elected officials do. Uh, certainly the 244 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: economy does. But we're thinking that our responsibility is not 245 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: just to make sure soldiers are well compensated, but it 246 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: is that they have the gear and the training they 247 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: need to to come home after whatever we asked them 248 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: to do so that they're as safe as possible in 249 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: completing the mission. So how much does recruitment fall under 250 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: your purview? Are you involved in recruitment? Recruitment? Yes, Rerument 251 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: and how and how would you describe the recruitment process now? Well, 252 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: it's it's US fighting forces are signing up heavily. Where 253 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: what's there? What's their socioeconomic background? People who are going 254 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: into the different branches. Is something that UM that I 255 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: spent some time on and many others did as well, 256 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 1: including Secretary car to the current Secretary Defense. Because we do. 257 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: We're forty plus years into an all volunteer force. We 258 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,719 Speaker 1: have the most fashional lethal military we've ever had. It's 259 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: a very successful UM all volunteer force, but it is 260 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: creating a growing divide between those who serve and the 261 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: rest of society, which seems to be one On social media, 262 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: I see some tremendous antagonism by people who say, you know, 263 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: if you don't support the troops, and people who feel 264 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 1: very isolated in the military community because they feel that 265 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: people don't understand their sacrifices. Well, I think that's true. 266 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,719 Speaker 1: I don't like the notion that if you aren't supporting 267 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: certain wars or certain activities, are not supporting the troops, 268 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: you can support the troops without agreeing with how they're 269 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: being deployed. But I do believe it's true that the 270 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: you know, less than one percent of the country is 271 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: serving at any given time, and it's the majority of 272 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: the country that and it is to your earlier question, 273 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: it is geographic. You know, we recruit sort of through 274 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: the far Midwest down and then across the south, and 275 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: and there are large parts of the countries where we're 276 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: not successful at recruiting. Well, what do you think can 277 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: be done to change that? Or can anything be done 278 00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: to change that? I do think things can be done. 279 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: We we um you know, recruiters will go where there's 280 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: where they are is success at getting recruits, and so 281 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 1: they come hand in certain parts of the country or 282 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: or minimizing, not abandoning it. I wouldn't say that they're 283 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: pulling back from those parts of the country. They're just 284 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: focusing on where they know there's a culture and that 285 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: we've been successful Kareem before and we need to make 286 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: an effort to reach out to other communities and to 287 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: go to other schools for RTC programs than than we're 288 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: currently doing, to make sure we're going across the entire country. 289 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: So a man or a woman is sitting down in 290 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: front of a recruiting officer in the modern Army and 291 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: they fill out some paperwork, they fill out some forms, 292 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: and they literally sign up and join the army. And 293 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: in the modern Army, for people who don't know what happens, 294 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: then where do they go? Everyone goes to basic training 295 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: UH and the Army is the basic training is the same, 296 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: basically training everybody who enters the everybody who entered. How 297 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: many how many training bases are there in the US 298 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: right now? It's hard to say because we are doing 299 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: training everywhere. Initial installation training UM for all the services 300 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: is done differently. We have for the Army, Yeah, the 301 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: Army Fort Jackson UH in South Carolina where we do 302 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: most of our initial training. And how many people are 303 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: coming through there a month, I don't know. The monthly 304 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: figures we assess for the active component about sixty people 305 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,479 Speaker 1: a year, many of them make the cut and stay 306 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: most of some of them do most of them, most 307 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: of them stay. We need do a little bit better 308 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: job of making sure that we can capt catch those 309 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: people a little bit earlier. Um, because you don't want 310 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: someone to go through twelve weeks of training and then leave. 311 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: It's not very efficient for us. From there. Then, depending 312 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: on what what branch they're going to go into or 313 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: what they're going to do in the army, there's follow 314 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: on training. You see what branch meaning they can sign 315 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: up for the army and wind up being sent elsewhere. 316 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: Well no, no no, no, they sign up for the army, 317 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: I mean branch like infantry, armor or two branch of 318 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: the army. And after they do that, uh, you evaluate 319 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: their expertise and what you know. Some people have more 320 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: advanced skills than others and they go into different operations. Correct. 321 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: We do the one thing it's it's uh pretty unique 322 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: to the Army that when you sign up a recruiting station, 323 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: we're going to determine what you're gonna do. I mean, 324 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: we have we know what openings we have, we know 325 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: what needs we have in the army. We're gonna line 326 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: you up to that. So when soldiers are going through 327 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: basic training, they know and all likelihood what they're going 328 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: to be doing when they when they get out of 329 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: basic training. So the ones who go into basic training, 330 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: is is it explained to them when they sign on, 331 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: because I've always been intrigued by this, is explained to 332 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: them when they sign on that everyone would be eligible 333 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: to be in combat and fight. Or are they told 334 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: when they sign on you don't necessarily have to go 335 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: into combat if you want to. If you tell us 336 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: you don't want to go and get shot at and 337 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: maybe die somewhere, we can put you here. Are they 338 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: given that option or no, Well, if if you wear 339 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: the uniform, you could be deployed. But certain choices beyond 340 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: basic training are going to increase or decrease the likelihood 341 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: that you are actually going to deploy or are going 342 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: to go into combat. And some people choose things that 343 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: will keep them away from that. Others volunteer to go 344 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: into combat. So the right Okay, So now we're down 345 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: to the men and women who go to combat or 346 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: want to go over there to these extraordinarily surreal environments 347 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: in the Middle East and Afghanistan and Iraq and so forth, 348 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 1: that we that we only see depicted in movies or 349 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: we see it in some footage that's embedded footage. You're 350 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: gonna have you and how would you describe the people 351 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: that want to go into combat today? Well, first of all, 352 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: most of them, it is incredible bravery and it is 353 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: an incredible sacrifice and commitment. Every day I do this 354 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: and I've been doing it now for twenty five years. 355 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: Um Uh, this line of work. I'm more amazed at 356 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: what we ask our soldiers to do and what they 357 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: do and the impact it has on their families, on 358 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: the entire rest of their lives. And so it is 359 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: a pretty remarkable thing that people sign up to do. 360 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: Um At some point, I would imagine the military sits 361 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: down and they have you know when in the medical profession, 362 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: I learned this one. I did some research to play 363 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: a doctor in a film. We sat down and talked 364 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: about the eminem that they you after the operation, when 365 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 1: the patient or the procedure, when the person dies, the 366 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: mortality and morbidity conference, and they talk about why the 367 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: person died and what they learned from that person dying. 368 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering, what is the eminem equivalent for the 369 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 1: military in terms of not just a war itself, not 370 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 1: just to region itself, but even specific battles you fight 371 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: and your and and decisions are made to send people here, 372 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: and many many people die, of course, many of them 373 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: innocent civilians, women and children in that area. And I'm wondering, 374 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: what's that function like for you or anybody under your wing? 375 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: How do we minimize that? I think we have And 376 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: if you just look at this the last fifteen years 377 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: of this war compared to what happened in Vietnam. As 378 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: a country, we won't tolerate those types of losses anymore. 379 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: And it factors into the calculus of the decision makers 380 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: when they're deciding what to do, how to deploy, how 381 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: to utilize the force that they've got. Any time something 382 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: goes wrong, there is an assessment of it. Um. Any 383 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: time civilians are killed, any time a soldier is killed, 384 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: we are constantly assessing, um, what happened, what we could 385 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: turn from it internally well oftentimes externally to the press 386 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,719 Speaker 1: is very involved, was exactly? There were conclusions, and then 387 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: we make adjustments going forward. War is a terrible thing, right, 388 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 1: There's just no question about it. For our soldiers, for 389 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: civilians where we're fighting but we have done enormous things 390 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: I think to to minimize especially civilian deaths. That factors 391 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: into any time there's any risk to civilians. And and 392 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: remember we're not fighting just in deserts. Were fighting in 393 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: urban environments as well, and the adversaries I saw others 394 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: are very crafty about being able to hide and blend 395 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 1: in any time there's a risk, it goes very high. 396 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: The chain of command. Decisions that were made in the 397 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: field in previous wars are made in Washington now based 398 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: on that calculus of risk, and that in and of 399 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: itself creates risk for our forces not being able to 400 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: maybe react as quickly as I want to, but all 401 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: in an effort to make sure that we're minimizing the 402 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: risk in the field for civilians as much as possible. 403 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: What do you think would happen? I mean, if we 404 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: were able to to secure because I'm very cynical, not 405 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: about the military, because like I, I agree with you 406 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: and I've walked this tough line where you know, supporting troops, 407 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: respecting My dad was a marine. He was a drill 408 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 1: instructor on Parris Island. Uh, you know, I have a 409 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,719 Speaker 1: lot of respect and at the same time, I'm very 410 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: worried about the civilian oversight in the civilian control of 411 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: that in terms of it being applied properly. I think 412 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: properly in my terms. And so, you know, we have 413 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: a new president and I'm wondering, do do people that 414 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: work under you, who are career military and uniform military, 415 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: did you get a sense that could you could you 416 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: hear the cheers down the hallway when this guy one 417 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: will have a new president? We have president elector god, 418 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: I can have a couple more months of him. I 419 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: would just say this, the military is incredibly professional. First 420 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: of all, it's it's an it's large and just in 421 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: the Armies, I said in the Act of the Garden 422 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: Reserve components, Um, we have over a million people in uniform, 423 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: and so you have the gamut of opinions there. But 424 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: they are dedicaid professional and they the oath they take 425 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: and they take it seriously as to the Constitution. But 426 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: we've always like to believe that they do have their 427 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: political preferences in terms of somebody I think it's going 428 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 1: to spend more money on the military. I don't see that. 429 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: I see the polls that people come out, I see 430 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: what people are thinking. I do think, Um, if you're 431 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: in uniform and you're at risk of going into harm's way, UH, 432 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: more is better. You want more equipment, you want more 433 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: modern equipment, and you want more training. Uh and you 434 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: probably want more battle buddies on either side of you 435 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 1: to make sure that you're not deploying constantly. But I 436 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: think also, especially if you get more senior in, your 437 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 1: focus is more strategic. You want to make sure you 438 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: have civilian leadership that is steady and is thoughtful about 439 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: what they're going to do. That there's this myth out 440 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: there that the military is the first to want to 441 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: jump in and go fight, and it's really the opposite 442 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: in many cases, because nobody knows better than the military 443 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 1: what fighting, what war, what combat is really like, and 444 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: it should be your choice of last resort. Coming up, 445 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: Eric Fanning talks about how an over tapped US military 446 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: responds to increased tensions around the world. This is Alec 447 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing. As Secretary 448 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: of the Army, Eric Fanning's reach touches all aspects of 449 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 1: that branch. He's the CEO, as he likes to say, 450 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: the guy in charge when it comes to weapons and equipment, veterans, 451 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: and finances. He works with decorated generals and policy experts, 452 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: but Fanning says he feels most at home with the 453 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: enlisted soldiers, the boots on the ground folks, the very 454 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: men and women who are facing new stresses today. Under 455 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: the Obama administration, there's been a decrease in troops, something 456 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: Fanning says, concerns plenty in the military. It's stressing to 457 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: many of them because we're still being asked to do 458 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 1: a lot of things all over the world. But the 459 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: worst thing for us would be to increase the size 460 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: of the force without the money that goes with it 461 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: for equipping and training. If we had more money right now, 462 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: I would be spending it on um, on procurement because 463 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: and installations and investments that are in the future that 464 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 1: we've mortgaged to make sure we're ready for today. If 465 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: we had, however, many troops, I've heard President elect Trump 466 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: talk about active component. We need to make sure we 467 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: have the rest of the money for the infrastructure to 468 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: support those troops. Do We just recently moved three hund 469 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: thousand trips to the Russian border, not three thousand, but yeah, 470 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: we are moving more equipment. The final numbers aren't set 471 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: yet UM, because we've pulled down substantially since the end 472 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,199 Speaker 1: of the Cold War what we have in Europe, and 473 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: so for deterrence, Russian deterrence, we are putting more there. 474 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 1: Those troops going there send a signal that you don't 475 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: want them to what. We want the Russians to know 476 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: that we're we are watching, and we are present, and 477 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: we are ready if they try and meddle. And you 478 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: think about how the borders where our troops are today 479 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: versus where they were in the Cold War. They're much 480 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: closer to the Russian border now than they were before 481 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 1: because all those former Soviet republics have wanted to join 482 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: NATO and have wanted to make friends with the West. 483 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: And so you've got the small Baltic countries up there, Latvia, Lithuania, 484 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: Estonia who fear the Russians might make a move on them. 485 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: There's a few fear that the Russians might make a 486 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: move on them. And the Russians are very creative at 487 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: asymmetrical warfare and and and doing things that are just 488 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: short of triggering any of our NATO commitments. Information operations, UM, 489 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: Intelligence gathering all sorts of things in the Baltics right now, 490 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: and so they're nervous. Our allies on the border, other 491 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: parts of the border nervous, and our presence there helps 492 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: reassure our allies and also change the calculus, hopefully for 493 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: the Russians. When you say that the United States UH 494 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: is challenged in so many you know, the army is 495 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: challenged in so many areas. The task is it out 496 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: in so many regions of the world, beyond the Middle East, 497 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: beyond Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria. Whenever you decide to focus on, 498 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: what would you say is the most challenging part for 499 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: the army, Well, it's this Russian border. No. I think 500 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: most people have have in the last few years said 501 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: Russia is the biggest United States But increasingly we're concerned 502 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 1: about North Korea UH and their their nuclear program and 503 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: their interconnal not in no ballistic missile program um. They 504 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: keep testing and showing that they're making improvements that that 505 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: has us worried about the risk they can impose on 506 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: the United States. So I I worry about There are 507 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: Army soldiers in over a hundred and fifty countries today, UH, 508 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: and so we're We're all over the place. And when 509 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: I talk about the risk to the army, I mean 510 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: we're running it hard. Whether you agree with how much 511 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 1: we spend or don't spend, we are running our military 512 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: pretty hard all over the world right now. But but 513 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: another interesting thing for me is not I mean again, 514 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: I'm I understand that sometimes there is a need for 515 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 1: you know, I only have cliche is handy to me 516 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: by the way, you know, boots on the ground and 517 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: so forth. And but there's another part of me that 518 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: has and this is a completely stupid from ignorant statement, 519 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: which is I think to myself, God, if I was 520 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: the president, I get on a plane and I'd fly 521 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: and I go visit our six or eight greatest allies 522 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: who have the dog. It's going to cost some money, 523 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: and I would set up you know, I'm not gonna 524 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: say mission impossible, but I'd set up some elite hit 525 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: team to go out and just take out the leaders 526 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 1: and then the top level of brass of some of 527 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: these organizations worldwide. Whether we got to go to Berlin 528 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: or or the Philippines, doesn't matter. When the world where 529 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: in North Korea, get into North Korea, which we can do, 530 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: I feel like we wait for for things to foment 531 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: to where it becomes war, whether it's heavy naval, heavy 532 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: air force, heavy ground troops, droning, what have you, rather 533 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: than going in there more surgically. Does the government does? 534 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: Does your department talk about that ever, about well things 535 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: being more surgical, Yes, And there's there are a number 536 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: of surgicals. I mean the size of the exactly. That 537 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: is an important part of of our military capability and 538 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: clandestine operations flandestine operations, UM, surgical operations as you mentioned, Uh, 539 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 1: drones used in the right way, but that's only one part. 540 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: Um that doesn't deter near pure adversaries. That doesn't help 541 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: you hold land. I mean, boots on the ground aren't 542 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: necessarily more efficient. But you know, we can take out 543 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: the leaders of ICEL, and there's another wave right behind them. 544 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: I mean they just sending new leaders in to replace 545 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: the w How do we go and kill the people 546 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,479 Speaker 1: that are the gardeners that are producing all the bulbs 547 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: there that are sprouting. Well, that's plenty of these analogies. 548 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: For these gardening analogies. They're not flowers though. It's a 549 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 1: combination of all these things you need. Um, you know, militarily, 550 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: we could sort of wipe out Isle and Iraq and Syria. 551 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: But what would happen after our troops roll through. What happens? 552 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: You know, new new insurgents take their place right behind it. 553 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: We need those, We need some sort of stability politically 554 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: over there, and then those countries need to have the 555 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: military and the police and so forth, the whole the 556 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: land that's been If you could wind the clock back, 557 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: if you could wind the clock back to even uh 558 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: just before nine eleven, or even right after nine eleven, 559 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: and in hindsight, which is terrible, if you had it 560 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: to do over again, what would you have liked to 561 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: have the United States military do right on the heels 562 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: of nine eleven? What what do you think they should 563 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: have done? Well, let me come back in hindsight. Let 564 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: make Covey out that by saying that I my hindsight. 565 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: What I do remember I was working at a think 566 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: tank at the time when nine eleven took place. I 567 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: do remember thinking, we're not debating this. I didn't have 568 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: an opinion because I didn't I didn't feel all the 569 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: facts were out there in the debate wasn't taking place, 570 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: And I blame my party just as much as the 571 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: Republican Party for for not insisting that that debate take 572 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: place on whether we should do this and what the 573 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: strategy be. I didn't support it. I'm not on record 574 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: either way because I was just a think tank staffer 575 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: at the time, but I thought it was taking our 576 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: eye off the ball of Afghanistan, where I thought we 577 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: really needed to focus. But my biggest crisis back is 578 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: we didn't have We didn't have the debate I think 579 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: you need to have. And that's when when we talk 580 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: about the growing divide between the military, which is incredibly 581 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: professional and just does what it's asked to do. Um, 582 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: the whole country has got to be involved in sending 583 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: a military, it's military to war, has got to have 584 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: skin in the game, and that's not how we really 585 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: think that other countries have to have more skin in 586 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: the game. My my comment as a civilian, but one 587 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: who was nonetheless very very devoted to this country finding 588 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: solutions and finding ways to protect ourselves. With nine eleven happened, 589 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: I thought to myself, let's build a military base and 590 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: make everybody pay for it. The Brits, the French, everybody, 591 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: the Australia, every everybody who's in a NATO. We're going 592 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: to hand them a bill and build a military base 593 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: the size of Rhode Island in the middle of Afghanistan. 594 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: And because Afghanistan was the sweet spot, we just park 595 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: everything there and under US coordination. We have this diverse 596 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: military forces so that everybody knows it's not the US, 597 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: is not US, it's we many many nations are here 598 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,959 Speaker 1: representing themselves. It's almost like a military version of Well, 599 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: I mean that's what NATO was, I guess of the 600 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: United Nations were. We're sending a signal to these people 601 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: in this region of the world. All of us are 602 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: here because we all share this fear of what you're 603 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: gonna do. Well. First of all, we have a number 604 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: of allies, um, that are ponying up. Um. You mentioned 605 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: special forces, Australian spirits, French. Um. There are a number 606 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: of countries out there that have incredibly capable special forces 607 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: that work with US. Uh. It is true, um that 608 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: only I think four NATO countries right now are living 609 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: up to the commitment of how much of their GTP 610 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: they're supposed to spot. Well. One is Greece, and that's 611 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: just because the denominator changed since their economy is having 612 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: so many so much trouble. Um. Poland has stepped up, 613 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: Britain is doing it um, but the vast majority or not. 614 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: I think part of the problem is we don't necessarily 615 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: internationally in the international community invest in those um those 616 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: institutions in other societies that help in the transition to 617 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: whatever the future is. And building a huge a military 618 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: basis out of Rhode Island that would create all sorts 619 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,239 Speaker 1: of other problems for us because that just makes us 620 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: look like an occupying force, and so you want to 621 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: keep your presence down because that's what we'll create that. 622 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: You said, what do we do about the gardeners that 623 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: are planning the bol I think that's a big part. 624 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: I mean, who wants another who wants other countries there 625 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: now by different name, Well, we've we've brought down our 626 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: troop levels there and we're trying to have the majority 627 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: of them focused on training, advising and assisting, helping build 628 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: the army and the police so that those countries have 629 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: some organic capability to false your stability in their country 630 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: so that it's not us and we we are trying 631 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: to minimize our footprint and our visibility there in many ways, 632 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: because just like the President thinks Guantanamo is recruiting tool, 633 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: us having boots on the ground in those places can 634 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: do have the same effect as well. What are you 635 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: gonna do when you're gone? I don't know. My plan was, um, 636 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: you know, to to years. Well, I I would like 637 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: to find someplace really warm and go for a while 638 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: and think this is I love this job. It's a 639 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: great job. Um. And you know, we have soldiers in 640 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: harm's way today and so any place in government where 641 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: a smooth transition and and someone having the stick every 642 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: single second is important, it's in the Department of Defense. 643 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: And so I will do this job and focus on 644 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: it with all that I can until someone else is 645 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: in the seas. Uh. Well, I I don't know. I 646 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: love whing We're not married, but you're together. How long 647 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: we've been, Well, we've know on each other ten years. 648 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: But what about overseas? Is I mean you've probably traveled 649 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: all over the world. Yeah, I I I've been to 650 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: over eighty countries now and and uh, I'd like I've 651 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: always wanted to live out of the country. I've always 652 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: wanted to live someplace else, and now might be the time. Um, 653 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: I'd like teach a little. I'd like to, really would 654 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: just like to take a break you think would be 655 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: the best application of the knowledge you have in the 656 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: experience you have other than consulting and getting a job 657 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: in the for profit world. Nobody there's nothing wrong with that, 658 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: just gonna pay the bills. But um, I'd like to teach. 659 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: I've it's always been interested in mind. When I first 660 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: came to Washington, my plan was to stay a couple 661 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: of years, get a PhD, and go the academic route. 662 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: And I just early on in my career kind of 663 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: had things evolved rapidly and got on a different track, 664 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: and I enjoy that part of it. One of the 665 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: things I like doing in my job is is spending 666 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: time with Rozie Cadets or West Point Cadets that are 667 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: just at that point in their lives and their careers 668 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: and are thinking about things differently. And so that's one 669 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: thing I'm thinking about. But but I'm only half joking 670 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: when I say I'm going to find a nice speech 671 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: and just relax for a little while, because these are 672 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: these are tough jobs. They're kind of NonStop. Maybe I 673 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: book I'm the only political appointing who served in all 674 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: three military Department's, Navy or forcing. My plan was just 675 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: was to try and uh, stay in for eight years, 676 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: get a couple of different opportunities, pace myself so I 677 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: could do that, but be tired at the end. So 678 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: I knew I'd done everything I could and I've succeeded 679 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: at that. So it'll you know, this election didn't go 680 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: the way I had hoped, and I had hoped to 681 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: stay in the job all bit longer to get more done. Um, 682 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: but it'll all work out, and uh and and I 683 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: take try to take advantage of those breaks, because you 684 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: can't just walk into your bord of directors your boss 685 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: one day and say can I see in three months? 686 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: And so I'm in no hurry to figure out what's next. 687 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: What will you miss about the job? The people. I 688 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: have an amazing team around me. And one of the 689 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: things I love the best I've I've worked in the 690 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: Pentagon more years between the two administrations, and then most 691 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,919 Speaker 1: people probably think is healthy. But and I like that. 692 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: I like Washington, but I love getting out into the 693 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: field and interacting the soldiers. Um. Every time travel, they 694 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: want to you know, you get on a plane, you 695 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: go along distance and they want to stick in a 696 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: dark room with the PowerPoint presentation, and that the rule is, 697 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: I won't do anything that I could do in my office, 698 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: and so I just try and get out into the 699 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: field as far as I can and watch soldiers doing 700 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: what they're doing and if they'll let me do it 701 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: with them. From beyond a partisan discussion about US military policy, 702 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: and some people fear that Americans are going a broken 703 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: bottle in one hand and a chair and the other 704 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: and they're picking fights with everybody, and out of a 705 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: deep respect for the military. This is not about questioning 706 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: their their preparedness or questioning the judgment of their deployments 707 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,959 Speaker 1: and so forth in their and their conflicts. But people 708 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: are afraid that eventually we're gonna get to a point 709 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: where the Russians and or the Chinese make trouble for us, 710 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: We're not going to have the strength left to fight them. 711 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: Do you think there's steps that can be taken in 712 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: the coming administration that can help strengthen our position to 713 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: be prepared to fight the Russians in the Baltic or 714 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: something like that. Do we need Do we need to 715 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,839 Speaker 1: get trimmer and fitter to do that? We are ready now? Um, 716 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: we we have an incredibly capable and lethal military. So 717 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: that's so that's why it's so expensive. We are ready 718 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: and and we we we want an unfair fight wherever 719 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: we fight, um, whether it's a near peer advacy, whether 720 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: it's terrorism, whether it's space, whatever, cyber, wherever it is, 721 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: we want an unfair fight. But you hit it squarely 722 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 1: on the head that, um, we are asking the military 723 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 1: to do a lot right now, and so we're ready, 724 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: but tired. I mean, we're not doing these wars last 725 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: fifteen years have taken us away from the type of 726 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 1: training we want to do to be as ready as possible. 727 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: And we're trying to refocus on a little bit. And 728 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: whether that's a more money for training, whether that's asking 729 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: the military to do less than it's doing around the 730 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,760 Speaker 1: world right now, whether that's increasing the size of the military. 731 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: There are a number of different ways that you can 732 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: get at that. But um, but no adversary should think 733 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: that they can take us on even as we're stretched 734 00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: around the world. Uh, not realize it's a bad mistake. Right. 735 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: The many people obviously believe that much of the military 736 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: activity on behalf of the United States in the Middle 737 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 1: East is about oil and wanted to secure sources of oil. 738 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: But of course if we don't need the oil, if 739 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: we look to the Middle East and say our oil 740 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: needs here are so grossly diminished, now do we just 741 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: get up and walk away now because we don't need 742 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: to secure that area? Well, I think the calculus has 743 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: changed over time and it's not about oil in the 744 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 1: way that was in the past. Um, we do have 745 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: friends over there, We do have allies and partnerships over 746 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: there that I think, um, and I think those commitments 747 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,959 Speaker 1: are important. But yeah, if we picked up and left, um, 748 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: we we have we we have a a strong insurgent 749 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: terrorist presence there that has made clear that they have 750 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 1: capabilities to strike globally and have a desire to do that. 751 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: And I'd rather be having that fight over there than 752 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,240 Speaker 1: inside our borders. Are on our borders. So two last questions, 753 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: what do you think about the UH? I don't I 754 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: don't want to say a sacrifice, although that certainly is 755 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: a handy word that comes to mind. But what do 756 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: you think about the path that the gay community has 757 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: taken in the military. Are you extremely proud of that? 758 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: About how they negotiated these words over the last several years. Yeah, 759 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: I'm very proud of that. I again having you know, 760 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 1: started this before Donuts don't Tell has even created, been 761 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: there when donust don't Tell was created, been there when 762 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: donus don'tell is repealed, which is a remarkable moment. Society 763 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 1: has just changed so fast, and the military are they 764 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: are they adapting to that as well. Yeah, it almost 765 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: seems like it happened forever ago now because we've moved 766 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: on to a lot of other things. But the military 767 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: can maybe move in some ways slowly, but once a 768 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: decision is made, they execute, they salute, they move on, 769 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: and they do it very professionally. That the repeal of 770 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 1: donnus Don't Tell and the allowing of open service of 771 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: gays and lesbians was remarkably professional and smooth. It was. 772 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: It made me proud of a number of things. Maybe 773 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 1: proud that we did it, may be proud that the 774 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,719 Speaker 1: president made it priority and got it done. And it 775 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 1: made me proud of the military when they did. And 776 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 1: then you know, we've done that, desegregated long before most 777 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 1: of the rest of the country did. We pay women 778 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: right now equal wages of for for what they do, 779 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: for what men are paid. We've opened up service to 780 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: transgender soldiers, airmen, marines, sailors as well. And and when 781 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: you take all these things, opening up all combat positions 782 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: to women, it's about getting rid of the qualifiers and 783 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: just saying here's a here's an actual legitimate requirement and 784 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 1: standard that need to be met to do this type 785 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: of job. If you can meet that, regardless of who 786 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: you are and you want to do it, we we 787 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,879 Speaker 1: want you to have that opportunity. Those in uniform who 788 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: are gained lesbian, who are allowed to serve open and 789 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: some of them, there are still many serving in silence. 790 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: They put higher standards on themselves because they knew they 791 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: were representing and they are incredibly professional, uh, and they 792 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:44,759 Speaker 1: didn't want to feed into any of those stereotypes. And 793 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say inside out of the Pentagon. I'd say 794 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 1: inside outside the Beltway, because the further you get away 795 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 1: from Washington was why I like to go in the 796 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,479 Speaker 1: fields and spend time with young soldiers. And you ask 797 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,319 Speaker 1: senior officials and they think, well, I don't, We've never 798 00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: done that way. That change may cost some problems. You 799 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: ask sort of mid grade officials and they say, we'll 800 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: figure out how to make it work, and then you 801 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: go ask junior officers or young enlisted and they're like, 802 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: they look at you like you're crazy. We're already doing that. 803 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: You're just catching up with us. Society is changing at 804 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 1: a clip, and we're recruiting from that society. And so 805 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,359 Speaker 1: it's time and time and time again when we make 806 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,760 Speaker 1: what they call social changes, and people call them experiments. 807 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 1: And I don't think that inclusivity and and opportunity or experiments. 808 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 1: I think they're shared American values time and time when 809 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: we've done that, desegregation women the military don't ask, don't tell, 810 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: the same arguments are used and they're disproven very quickly. UM, 811 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: it's been, in my view, remarkably smooth about opening service. 812 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,880 Speaker 1: Who are we to deny an American the right to 813 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: serve if they want to step up and make that 814 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,919 Speaker 1: commitment on our behalf? You recruit people, I mean part 815 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: of your responsibility in that UM when SHIELD is recruiting people. 816 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: What's your relationship with the v A and with the 817 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: Veterans Administration? What do you think is if you could 818 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: pick one thing you'd like to see done to help 819 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 1: veterans more in this country, what do you think needs 820 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: to happen. I think we need to do more. People 821 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: sign up, they make commitment to the United States, We 822 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: in turn make a commitment to them, and we have 823 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: to stay laser focused on that. And we have a 824 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: close relationship with the VA because you are a soldier 825 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: one day and then you're you know, under the v 826 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: A the next day, and we want to make that 827 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: handoff as smooth as possible. And the thing that I 828 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: would if I were staying this job longer focus on 829 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 1: is making sure I don't think we have a handle 830 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 1: on behavioral health issues post traumatic stress. We are asking 831 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: people to do unbelievable things that goes against the biology 832 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,439 Speaker 1: how we're wired and this idea. We've done a lot 833 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: to make sure we we have help available for when 834 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 1: people come back, but they still have to seek it out. 835 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,879 Speaker 1: I think the whole paradigm has to change, where we say, 836 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: of course you're gonna need help when you get back. 837 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: We asked you to do something crazy on behalf of 838 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,839 Speaker 1: your country. We need to have that help available and 839 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 1: make sure we've diagnosed it properly so that anybody who 840 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: has been injured in any way through service gets the 841 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: care that they deserve, whether it's a visible wound or 842 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,279 Speaker 1: invisible wound, and make sure we understand that when we're 843 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:17,319 Speaker 1: handing them off to the v A. Eric Fanning will 844 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: complete his appointment with the Army in January. This is 845 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,879 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing.